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<v Speaker 1>Good evening, friends, thank you for joining us this week

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<v Speaker 1>on the nonprofits. Tonight is Monday, January twenty seventh, and

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<v Speaker 1>we have got a lot of interesting articles to cover

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<v Speaker 1>this week. We are going to first go to California,

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<v Speaker 1>where they're unfortunately dealing with the harsh realities of nature

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<v Speaker 1>and many people's lives and livelihoods are at stake, and

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<v Speaker 1>our hearts go out to them. But there's something else

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<v Speaker 1>that we want to talk about going on with California,

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<v Speaker 1>and AJ is going to kick it off.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, California is burning during one of the most

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<v Speaker 2>destructive and devastating forest flowers in the state's history. There's

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<v Speaker 2>been twelve thousand structors destroyed, tens of thousands of people needs,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, have to move to evacuations. There is a

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<v Speaker 2>twenty seven human lives lost so far, and the impact

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<v Speaker 2>to animal life isn't even measurable at this point. But

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<v Speaker 2>who has time for that, at least not the conservative

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<v Speaker 2>right wing online influencers Charlie Kirk and Christopher Ruffe, both

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<v Speaker 2>of whom have said that, you know, we need to

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<v Speaker 2>look away from the wall burning and point us to

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<v Speaker 2>what they consider the real destruction. Sign language interpreters taken

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<v Speaker 2>over half of the screen during televised emergency announcements. This

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<v Speaker 2>article was from Mother Jones and written by Julian Metel

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<v Speaker 2>on January thirteen, twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thank you so much. AJ. You know, I am

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<v Speaker 1>not so sure how with all of the destruction and

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, I'm being nice, I'm being nice. Not

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<v Speaker 1>so sure. I mean, let's be honest, it's ridiculous all

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<v Speaker 1>the destruction that is that is kind of spreading across California,

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<v Speaker 1>and this religious demagogue has time to demonize sign language interpreters.

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<v Speaker 1>Why do you think that is? What are your first

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<v Speaker 1>thoughts on targeting another minority group versus talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>real problem.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that it's been clear lately that the conservatives

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<v Speaker 2>have just waged a war against all the things that

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<v Speaker 2>they consider work, you know, with a focus on diversity,

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<v Speaker 2>equity and inclusivity practices. They pushed so much that many

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<v Speaker 2>businesses who had adopted these initiatives have since decided to

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<v Speaker 2>completely drop them because they feel too much pressure, too

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<v Speaker 2>much pressure from their conservatives, and they feel losing profits.

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<v Speaker 2>Every company feels losing profits. But these initiatives are meant

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<v Speaker 2>to support both you know, customers, employers that come from

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<v Speaker 2>marginalized communities, like people from different races, genders, sexual orientations,

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<v Speaker 2>or the sabled people. And they've made so much progress

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<v Speaker 2>at taking away the rights of, for example, transgender people,

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<v Speaker 2>that it makes sense that now they have to find

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<v Speaker 2>a different type of target, anyone who isn't like them,

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<v Speaker 2>and it just so happened to be interpreters. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think that does not absolutely detalgate. I think that deaf

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<v Speaker 2>people is detargent because trust me, there is the people

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<v Speaker 2>that this service benefits who they want to take down.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, Jonathan, she raises a point that you

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<v Speaker 1>know it maybe the scapegoat, maybe the new boogeyman is

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<v Speaker 1>the ASL interpreters. But yeah, there are certainly second in

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<v Speaker 1>order excuse me, second and third order effects of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Taking that away takes information away from a lot of people.

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<v Speaker 1>How does this relate to the well, the conservatives, the

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<v Speaker 1>right wing movement in this country. I almost said Republicans,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, I have to remind myself that not

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<v Speaker 1>everybody that makes up the party, granted it's a small number,

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<v Speaker 1>is part of the red wave, if you will, But

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<v Speaker 1>the people are that are part of the red wave,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, have this desire to control information. At least

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<v Speaker 1>in my opinion, I wanted to get your thoughts on that,

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<v Speaker 1>and how does that relate to them making a boogeyman

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<v Speaker 1>out of the A cell interpreters.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, and in my thoughts about it, they have to

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<v Speaker 3>have some way of keeping people from being compassionate or

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<v Speaker 3>empathetic to a Hollywood, a democratic stronghold. They cannot allow

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<v Speaker 3>any positive information about the more liberal people in our

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<v Speaker 3>society because that is a direct assault on their philosophy

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<v Speaker 3>of life. They are couching all of their activities on

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<v Speaker 3>defeating an enemy, you know, and they've demonize entire segments

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<v Speaker 3>of our population so that they can fight an enemy

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<v Speaker 3>and that will get people to unite under their banner

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<v Speaker 3>to fight a destructive enemy. But they're picking on people

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<v Speaker 3>who can't normally have no political power and can't fight back,

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<v Speaker 3>and this is something that is cowardly. It's really cowardly

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<v Speaker 3>to pick on a sign language interpreter. These people study

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<v Speaker 3>for years to be able to be to emote and

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<v Speaker 3>get people to understand all of what's being said and

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<v Speaker 3>how it's being said, voice inflections, the underlying meaning of

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<v Speaker 3>words that you cannot get from a printed page. You

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<v Speaker 3>need that. It's part of a deaf person's grammar. You

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<v Speaker 3>can't do without it if you really want to understand

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<v Speaker 3>what's being said. I only took one sign language course.

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<v Speaker 3>My instructor was completely deaf, and the only day we

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<v Speaker 3>had an interpreter was the first day. I didn't learn

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<v Speaker 3>all that much in the two or three months I

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<v Speaker 3>was there. I'm not real talented at it, but it

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<v Speaker 3>made it perfectly clear when he was talking to a

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<v Speaker 3>student halfway across the park from the front of the

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<v Speaker 3>classroom about something that needed to be said in the class.

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<v Speaker 3>It was quite amazing that the amount of emotion that

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<v Speaker 3>can be transmitted. I didn't get to interact with a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of deaf people at that point, but I did

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<v Speaker 3>live across the street from a deaf individual recently, and

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<v Speaker 3>we managed expert lip reader. But that wasn't really you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I had to ask her how to say certain things

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<v Speaker 3>because I didn't think that they were expressing enough.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I was never very good at using the expressions on

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<v Speaker 3>my face to communicate information.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, that is a good point you raised.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I don't think and granted people who are deaf

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<v Speaker 1>have to navigate the world in far different ways than

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<v Speaker 1>the rest of us do. Now, I couldn't imagine not

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<v Speaker 1>living with one of my senses, or excuse me, living

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<v Speaker 1>without one of my senses. I couldn't even imagine not

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<v Speaker 1>having an appendage or having, you know, something debilitative, really

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<v Speaker 1>affecting the way I live. But to not have one

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<v Speaker 1>of your sensory information abilities is incredibly it must be

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<v Speaker 1>incredibly difficult to navigate life. But people people do it,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that we can relate in a sense

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<v Speaker 1>to the way they receive information, because just because we

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<v Speaker 1>have all of our senses, we still I mean, look

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<v Speaker 1>at me right now, we still have our facial expressions

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<v Speaker 1>and and things like that that we communicate with. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that taking away the ability for those for for

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<v Speaker 1>deaf people to receive information, as minimal as it may

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<v Speaker 1>be compared to the rest of us, UH, is a

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<v Speaker 1>way to control information, just like the two of you

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<v Speaker 1>have said. But it's also a very fascist, uh, a

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<v Speaker 1>very fascist character characteristic if you if you will, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>let's look at the most famous yeah, right, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>let's look at the most famous fascist movement in all

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<v Speaker 1>of history, World War Two. The Holocaust right Germany, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>disabled people were targeted, and now we see that happening

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<v Speaker 1>from the religious right, who can be characterized a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of their policies as fascist, and it is dehumanizing in

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<v Speaker 1>a way. And we have seen that over and over

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<v Speaker 1>again from this uh, this right movement, just dehumanizing everybody

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<v Speaker 1>that stands in their way. And Jonathan, I think you

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<v Speaker 1>up a great point about about the Hollywood factor. I

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<v Speaker 1>haven't even I hadn't even thought about that, But the

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<v Speaker 1>type of information that people pick up from from TV, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, that can have a devastating effect if it's transmitted.

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<v Speaker 3>You're trying to demonize not just disabled people, which is

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<v Speaker 3>an actual tenet of the American neo Nazis is to

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<v Speaker 3>get rid of all the disabled people and that. But

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<v Speaker 3>one of the things that they they're doing is they

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<v Speaker 3>are basically targeting everybody who isn't them. Yeah, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>but they do it through these means, these these groups,

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<v Speaker 3>and then they can keep they'll they'll move to another group.

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<v Speaker 3>Eventually after they've sufficiently beaten down the disabled people. They'll

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<v Speaker 3>move to you know, somebody else. They'll move to Italians,

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<v Speaker 3>or they'll move to somebody they can they can beat

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<v Speaker 3>up and don't have a lot of power.

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<v Speaker 1>AJ, you had a point, and you were about to

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<v Speaker 1>chime in forgive me, but you had a point on uh,

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<v Speaker 1>people being dehumanized, and I wanted to to get you

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<v Speaker 1>to expand on that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's exactly the point that I was going to make.

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<v Speaker 2>What Jonathan was saying is correct. Like the way that

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<v Speaker 2>they do this is by the humanizing entire groups of

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<v Speaker 2>people in order for their listeners or their supporters to

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<v Speaker 2>then be okay with whatever they you know, they suggest

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<v Speaker 2>that they're after so, but what they don't understand. There

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<v Speaker 2>is the same language. As Jonathan also pointed out, it's

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<v Speaker 2>a full language. There is is not English, Okay, It's

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<v Speaker 2>its own unique language. It has centered structure, it has

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<v Speaker 2>visual cues, like you can have the same hand shapes

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<v Speaker 2>for many different signs, but you place them in different

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<v Speaker 2>positions and you make different faces and it means completely

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<v Speaker 2>different things. It's like written versus spoken English, right, and

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<v Speaker 2>you can miss a lot of context when you send

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<v Speaker 2>the text message versus when you speak to somebody in person.

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<v Speaker 2>So if I were to I've learned some time language

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<v Speaker 2>because as you all know, I'm also that so if

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<v Speaker 2>I say something like if I say something like, you're

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<v Speaker 2>not going to know what I'm saying. But if I

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<v Speaker 2>say I hate you, then you're going to know by

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<v Speaker 2>my face. Even if I didn't say it, or if

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't make them mouth movements, you will know that

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like saying something, you know, kind of like mean

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<v Speaker 2>or like I'm having an emotional response, right, And that

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<v Speaker 2>part I would have to say was one of the

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<v Speaker 2>things that bothered me the most about this article. It

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't even like the call to stop sign language from

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<v Speaker 2>being used, but rather one of the quotes that Christopher

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<v Speaker 2>Rouffo said in response to the Los Angeles County Emergency

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<v Speaker 2>Management News conferences. He said, no wild in no wild human,

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<v Speaker 2>justticulators are necessary. Now, I know that that word is

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<v Speaker 2>not inherently negative, but in this context, he was kind

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<v Speaker 2>of saying that that sign language, that people who you

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<v Speaker 2>said language are wild, and then the clarifies, He clarifies

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<v Speaker 2>by saying human. They had a disgusting feel to it,

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<v Speaker 2>like maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, but like it seemed

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<v Speaker 2>like he was trying to save that balistic Well, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't think you're interpreting it wrong because by him calling them,

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<v Speaker 1>by him calling them wild, it goes to show you

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<v Speaker 1>that he doesn't understand what is going on. And for

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<v Speaker 1>anybody that wants to control the media or control the

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<v Speaker 1>narrative to not understand the message that's being transported, this

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<v Speaker 1>can be incredibly threatening in my opinion, And I think

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<v Speaker 1>that is the reason you have Charlie Kirk labeling asl

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<v Speaker 1>interpreters as woke, because it's akin to him not knowing

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<v Speaker 1>what's going on and him fearing what he doesn't understand.

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<v Speaker 1>And that right there, I think is what leads to

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<v Speaker 1>a fascist, a fascist kind of ideology. And Jonathan I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to see you know when I said fascism, you

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<v Speaker 1>know you you kind of perked up a little bit. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, how does this help the right wing agenda

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<v Speaker 1>at all?

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<v Speaker 3>I think what it does is, again they're just trying

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<v Speaker 3>to get their not just their base, but people sitting

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<v Speaker 3>on the fence to hate the same things they hate,

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<v Speaker 3>so they can form a tribe, a tribe that is

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<v Speaker 3>external to the tribe of being a United States citizen,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's still within the group. So the Venn diagram

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<v Speaker 3>would have a little circle of fascists in here that

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<v Speaker 3>they can use. It only takes a third of the

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<v Speaker 3>people in most cases historically to take over a government.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, they're trying to put themselves in power,

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<v Speaker 3>so they can stay in power, and they can dictate

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<v Speaker 3>to us exactly what we have to do and have

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<v Speaker 3>us as little serfs and feudal slaves in order to

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<v Speaker 3>make them wealthy and to fight their wars for them.

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<v Speaker 3>As they go on marching trying to get the rest

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<v Speaker 3>of the world to agree with them, even though they

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<v Speaker 3>know they are totally wrong, and how they're anticipating things.

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<v Speaker 3>And one of the things that bothers me is that

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<v Speaker 3>what they don't understand well, they actually understand it all

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<v Speaker 3>too well, is people aren't born with any persuasion. They

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<v Speaker 3>are educable, and so as they educate or program people

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<v Speaker 3>to be like them, you don't get rid of this

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<v Speaker 3>kind of evil.

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<v Speaker 4>And it's so astonishing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so astonishing that this is happening in my lifetime,

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<v Speaker 1>something that I never thought, something I never thought would

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<v Speaker 1>have happened. You know, I have a funny story, and

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<v Speaker 1>I don't mean to digress for a bit, but this relates.

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<v Speaker 1>I gave a lecture a couple of weeks ago For

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<v Speaker 1>those of you who aren't familiar, I'm an adjunct professor

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<v Speaker 1>of National security studies. What are the schools I'm partnered with.

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<v Speaker 1>I gave a lecture on presidential powers, and I gave

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<v Speaker 1>this ridiculous example to remain objective right to not say

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<v Speaker 1>anything that would be controversial, I said, let's just say,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, the United States went to war with Canada,

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<v Speaker 1>and people chuckled, and I thought it was ridiculous. That's

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<v Speaker 1>the only reason I said it. And then lo and behold,

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<v Speaker 1>we're in We're in this fight where we're slinging shots

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<v Speaker 1>back and forth with Canada. Uh, for reasons I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>going to get into. And I just can't believe that

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<v Speaker 1>we're in the spot that we're in, to the point

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<v Speaker 1>that we have religious clergy members, if you will, ignoring

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<v Speaker 1>a wildfire, ignoring the fact that their God is not

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<v Speaker 1>showing up to do anything, and instead attacking sign language interpreters.

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<v Speaker 1>It is we are living in a circus. It's absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>mind blowing. And you know what, AJ, you know, forgive me,

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<v Speaker 1>I forgot that you were that you were deaf, and

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<v Speaker 1>and I, you know, forgive me, I didn't I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>mention that and I actually I actually mentioned that we

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<v Speaker 1>all could could you know, we had our capabilities. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what was your thought? How personally did this

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<v Speaker 1>strike you when you first read this article?

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<v Speaker 2>I was I was quite shocked. I think it's just

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<v Speaker 2>a sort of a distraction, you know, and it cut

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<v Speaker 2>me off guard because as someone who has depended on

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<v Speaker 2>that type of communication, you know, I haven't always had

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<v Speaker 2>my cochlear implants, so I either depended on the captions

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<v Speaker 2>very often, or somebody telling me, Like if I was

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<v Speaker 2>out and you know, I couldn't hear somebody out there

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<v Speaker 2>talking to me, I don't or a wait dress or whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I will have to turn to somebody in

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<v Speaker 2>my family and be like, hey, what did they say?

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<v Speaker 2>Even that the person's right, they're in front of me.

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<v Speaker 2>So for me to hear somebody saying hey, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like whether you hear this or not doesn't matter, was

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<v Speaker 2>like shocking. I'm gonna say though, that this is actually dangerous.

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<v Speaker 2>This isn't just about being fascist or the humanizing people.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about putting people's lives at risk. There's about three

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<v Speaker 2>million people deaf people in California. About a million of

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<v Speaker 2>them live in the Los Angeles area, which is where

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<v Speaker 2>all the fires are happening right now. But this is

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<v Speaker 2>just one state. The United States has about eleven million

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<v Speaker 2>deaf people and forty five million people who have some

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<v Speaker 2>degree of hearing lass. So this is a major number.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not just a few people that are listening to

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<v Speaker 2>these emergency response communications that could potentially save their lives

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<v Speaker 2>in those type of situations like a fire, a hurricane, tornadoes,

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<v Speaker 2>like you need to move quickly, and so it's just

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<v Speaker 2>it's incredibly frustrating because there's just so many implications to this,

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<v Speaker 2>requests of removing American sent language interpreters from emergency announcements.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and this, yeah, this leaves this leaves people incredibly vulnerable.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing that is shocking to me, I think, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, at this point in my life, very few

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<v Speaker 1>things shocked me anymore. But you know, this idea that

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<v Speaker 1>they have, you know, the right wing, the super conservative,

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<v Speaker 1>uh maybe somewhat fascist right wing movement, It thrives on

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<v Speaker 1>demonizing or dehumanizing people, attacking people, making them vulnerable. And

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<v Speaker 1>we all said in the beginning of the show, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they've moved to minorities, and then they moved to the LGBTQ,

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<v Speaker 1>and then when they've done that, you know, they move

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<v Speaker 1>on to somebody else. I almost feel like they're not

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<v Speaker 1>succeeding because the LGBTQ movement is not succumbing to them.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not succumbing to this movement. People are are stronger,

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<v Speaker 1>people are more vocal, and I almost wonder why did

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<v Speaker 1>they move on to the ASL. I mean, they still

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<v Speaker 1>haven't conquered the people they set out to conquer originally.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I thought, you know, these people have no

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<v Speaker 1>the the ASL community has no track record of having

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<v Speaker 1>to defend themselves. It's such an easy target and it's

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<v Speaker 1>so cheap. And so, Jonathan, I wanted to pivot back

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<v Speaker 1>to you and kind of get your your final remarks

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<v Speaker 1>on this topic. You know, I know that you you

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<v Speaker 1>kind of came up with the idea of them having

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<v Speaker 1>an imaginary boogeyman. But where do we go from here?

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<v Speaker 1>Debuted by the way, my friend.

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<v Speaker 3>Pulling a problem here. They've always had somebody to fight,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, we had Communism to fight before that, we

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<v Speaker 3>had Nazism to fight before that, we had the Spanish

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<v Speaker 3>American War. There's always been somebody to focus their anger

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<v Speaker 3>on rather than focus on improving the United States. And

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<v Speaker 3>the only other thing I would say is you think

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<v Speaker 3>that it's different from when you were younger. I'm thirty

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<v Speaker 3>years older than you. Yeah. When I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 3>we still said the Pledge of Allegiance in class and

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<v Speaker 3>meant it. You know, of course we were ducking under

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<v Speaker 3>our desks for nuclear drills, but it was like a

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<v Speaker 3>whole different world. This world, to me, is dystopian as hell.

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<v Speaker 3>It is absolutely ridiculous that these people would have the

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<v Speaker 3>gall to go after ASL interpreters when half a state.

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<v Speaker 4>Is burning down. Yeah, that is like the most absolutely

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<v Speaker 4>evil thing to do. And I think they do that

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<v Speaker 4>to desensitize people to the evil they do.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep, So yeah, I would agree there. This is a distraction.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we're talking about this right now. There's so

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<v Speaker 1>many other things that we could be talking about that

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<v Speaker 1>are just a disaster, right, but we're talking about this,

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<v Speaker 1>and rightfully so these people shouldn't be targeted. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>distraction after distraction, we keep getting faced with the most

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<v Speaker 1>just asinine views and attempts. And I want to leave

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<v Speaker 1>it there, but uh not without giving aj about a

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<v Speaker 1>minute or so to close us out. So what are

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<v Speaker 1>your thoughts, aj.

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<v Speaker 2>I think empathy. Empathy is what we need. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>earlier you mentioned about living without one of your senses

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<v Speaker 2>and what that feels like. And I know what that

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<v Speaker 2>feels like. Every single day I wake up and I

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I got a bed, and I take off

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<v Speaker 2>my implant and I'm completely tough, and I put it

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<v Speaker 2>on in the morning, and it's like an influx of sounds,

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<v Speaker 2>and sometimes it can be a little bit overwhelming, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's like getting used to that and then back to

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<v Speaker 2>taking it off when I have to do something that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, requires me to take it off. And it's

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<v Speaker 2>like if people were to put themselves in my shoes

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<v Speaker 2>for a moment, maybe they wouldn't think about these things.

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<v Speaker 2>I take the way that I communicate with them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, you know, when these religious and fascist demagogues

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<v Speaker 1>are up on their high horse, they are far away

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<v Speaker 1>from people who face the ailments and face the real

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<v Speaker 1>challenges in life that we all face. To a certain degree,

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<v Speaker 1>they can remove themselves from the needy and from the

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<v Speaker 1>people that need support, need and demonize them instead. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's what we're looking at. And you know what their religion,

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<v Speaker 1>their god it's not helping. It's just a tool for control.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a tool for dehumanization, demonization, and it really gets

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<v Speaker 1>us nowhere. And we've got a lot of things like

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<v Speaker 1>that to talk about