1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,839 Speaker 1: Upgrade your optic with Hollison where innovation meets precision. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 2: With fifty thousand. 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,919 Speaker 1: Hours of battery life, shake awake technology and a solar failsafe, 4 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,519 your optic is always ready when you are holloson confidence 5 00:00:12,599 --> 00:00:13,560 in every shot. 6 00:00:14,199 --> 00:00:17,519 Speaker 3: From the range to the field. CZ Firearms are built 7 00:00:17,559 --> 00:00:22,359 to perform when it counts. Known for accuracy, durability, and reliability. 8 00:00:22,559 --> 00:00:26,839 CZ stands apart, CZ built for those who demand more. 9 00:00:27,239 --> 00:00:31,079 Czfirearms dot Com. 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 4: He was the first and he's still the best. For 11 00:00:34,359 --> 00:00:37,679 thirty years, Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on 12 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:42,799 all things ballistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection, deep. 13 00:00:42,679 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 5: Part of it. 14 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 4: Paul, Tom Talk Gun Now, here's Tom. 15 00:00:51,119 --> 00:00:54,079 Speaker 2: It's that time again. Welcome again to gun Talk. I'm 16 00:00:54,079 --> 00:00:57,640 Tom Gresham'm your hosts. We get together every week to 17 00:00:57,679 --> 00:01:01,359 talk about guns and shooting and gun collecting and target 18 00:01:01,399 --> 00:01:04,519 shooting and hunting and yeah, Second Amendment as well. There's 19 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,319 a lot of things going on. We're gonna be talking 20 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,239 about some cool stuff, some AMMO and some shooting stuff. 21 00:01:10,359 --> 00:01:12,599 But you know, I got to jump right into the 22 00:01:12,599 --> 00:01:16,599 middle of this. We just had a major court decision, 23 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,920 actually a couple of them that kind of changes the landscape, 24 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,079 and we've got to talk about that. And I'll get 25 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:24,879 into this a good bit more a little bit later 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,519 in the show, but just to give you the highlights, 27 00:01:29,519 --> 00:01:34,239 we now are able to carry legally into post offices, 28 00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:37,840 with some restrictions and with some limitations. We'll cover that 29 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,799 as well. But the big news comes out of the 30 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:46,480 Third Circuit, a US Court of Appeals, which just ruled 31 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:51,799 late this past week that a ban on AR fifteens 32 00:01:51,799 --> 00:01:55,760 and semi automatic firearms, and a big part of this 33 00:01:56,319 --> 00:02:02,560 and a ban on standard capacity magazines that is, magazines 34 00:02:02,599 --> 00:02:08,759 that hold more than ten rounds is unconstitutional. This affects 35 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,560 the new Jersey ban on AR fifteen's and other semiatos 36 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,560 and on standard capacity magazines. What's this gonna mean, Well, 37 00:02:18,599 --> 00:02:22,280 we already have an AR fifteen case, it's been accepted 38 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,280 by the Supreme Court. They're going to hear the arguments 39 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:26,240 on it and they're gonna make a decision on it. 40 00:02:26,719 --> 00:02:31,759 This adds magazine bands to that. Now, whether this gets 41 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,960 appeal to the Supreme Court or it just sits there 42 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,759 and maybe the Supreme Court uses this as a reason 43 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,639 to add the whole magazine bands to the cases, they're 44 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,639 going to be hearing, I don't know. Just in a 45 00:02:44,719 --> 00:02:46,400 little bit and a few minutes, we're gonna be talking 46 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,360 with Mark Smith about this, and he has a great 47 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,319 way of explaining all that. So we're going to get 48 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,080 into that a lot of things for us to talk 49 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,080 about a lot of things going on on the Second 50 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,719 Endment front, but you know, we also want to talk 51 00:02:56,759 --> 00:02:59,439 about guns and AMMO and shooting and all the rest 52 00:02:59,479 --> 00:03:01,719 of that, and so to do that, we're going to 53 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,120 bring in a good friend of mine. One of the 54 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,960 people we love talking with just because he knows itaddar 55 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,560 and much and also he's just a fun guy to 56 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,360 hang out with. Is Jeff Hoffman from Black Hills Ammunition. Jeff, 57 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:13,039 welcome again. 58 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 5: Hey, good to be with you again. Tom. 59 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:18,759 Speaker 2: All right, So Black Hills Ammunition located right there in 60 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,960 the well, you're in the Black Hills, so it's kind 61 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,479 of what it's all about. But you make really really 62 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,199 good ammo and I know a lot of it is 63 00:03:27,199 --> 00:03:29,840 out on the commercial market, the civilian market, but you 64 00:03:29,879 --> 00:03:32,039 make a lot of AMMO for the military too, don't you. 65 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,719 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that's anymore. That's the majority of our business, Tom. 66 00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:41,199 We have kind of evolved into primarily a military specialty 67 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:42,319 ammunition producer. 68 00:03:42,639 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: Now when you say specialty, what are you talking about? 69 00:03:45,199 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 5: We're not good at well. We can do anything, we 70 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,800 just can't do it as economically as some of them. 71 00:03:50,879 --> 00:03:54,000 For example, eight five five you know standard five five 72 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,960 six ball. The government plan at Lake City can produce 73 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,240 those by the gazillions, and we just can't compete with 74 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,879 that kind of economy at scale. So we have to 75 00:04:04,919 --> 00:04:08,199 compete on things where the government maybe has a little 76 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:13,159 bit more of a smaller requirement for different performance. Probably 77 00:04:13,199 --> 00:04:15,080 the most well known of those is the Mark two 78 00:04:15,199 --> 00:04:18,680 sixty two. They wanted basically a sniper around in five 79 00:04:18,759 --> 00:04:22,879 five six, and to this day, after we've we've started 80 00:04:22,879 --> 00:04:26,040 producing in nineteen ninety nine, it was type classified I 81 00:04:26,079 --> 00:04:29,199 think in two thousand and we're still the only people 82 00:04:29,199 --> 00:04:32,120 that make precision five five six round for the military. 83 00:04:32,399 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 2: So all right, so what goes into that? I mean, 84 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,240 how do you take the five five six cartridge and say, okay, 85 00:04:38,439 --> 00:04:41,160 now we're going to make it a really good sniper round. 86 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:42,120 What do you do? 87 00:04:42,439 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 5: We lucked into this business. There was a retired lieutenant 88 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,959 colonel from the Army by the name of Mike Harris 89 00:04:48,959 --> 00:04:51,600 that came to us back when we didn't do anything 90 00:04:51,639 --> 00:04:54,920 with military and he said, you have a bid on 91 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,439 this AMU bid. I think you can win it. And 92 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,439 I said, sir, we don't know anything about military business. 93 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,639 And he said, well, if you didn't catch the title 94 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,600 I do. This was back in nineteen ninety six, and 95 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,000 so he guided us on how to submit on that bid. 96 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,439 And the bid specs were absolutely impossible, just literally impossible. 97 00:05:16,439 --> 00:05:20,480 They wanted a velocity you couldn't get within reasonable pressures 98 00:05:20,519 --> 00:05:24,480 or the pressures they specified. We submitted because I looked 99 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,519 at it and said, what do they actually want? They 100 00:05:26,519 --> 00:05:29,160 want the performance? Can we get there safely even though 101 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,120 we exceed the pressure And the answer was yes. So 102 00:05:33,199 --> 00:05:35,160 we did that. We submitted and we won the bid. 103 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,920 And then I called up am you and I said, 104 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,519 did you read or proposal. We couldn't meet your spec 105 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,720 on pressure. They said, yeah, nobody could. We can't even 106 00:05:43,759 --> 00:05:46,600 do that. We just wanted to see what industry could 107 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,920 do when you saved us ten thousand PSI over what 108 00:05:48,959 --> 00:05:52,360 we were doing. Well, we won that bid, and basically 109 00:05:52,519 --> 00:05:56,079 the Mark two sixty two was an outgrowth of that. 110 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,279 We started building ammunition for the army Marksmanship Unit and 111 00:06:00,439 --> 00:06:02,800 did well there. So then the government came to us 112 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,199 and said, you know, we need something for At that time, 113 00:06:06,199 --> 00:06:09,160 it was the Mark twelve, a brand new scope rifle. 114 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,000 It was basically an M sixty and a one suppressed accuracy, 115 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,839 accurized and scope cited. They said, we need ammunition that's 116 00:06:18,199 --> 00:06:21,120 effective and accurate at six hundred and I said, well, 117 00:06:21,199 --> 00:06:24,319 we can certainly do the accuracy. We're already doing that 118 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,879 for the Army of Marksmanship in it. As far as 119 00:06:27,319 --> 00:06:29,920 terminal bailistics at six hundred, I don't know anything about 120 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,879 how five five six is six hundred. And so we 121 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,079 started working on it, and they basically said you want 122 00:06:37,079 --> 00:06:40,680 to play, you know, because I hesitated a little bit 123 00:06:40,759 --> 00:06:42,959 and they said, Jeff, do you want to play it? 124 00:06:43,759 --> 00:06:46,639 Normally something like that. It's they put out a source 125 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,160 of SAD and it's competed. They didn't compete it. They 126 00:06:49,199 --> 00:06:51,519 just said you want to play, and so I said, yeah, absolutely, 127 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,639 And basically that's how we got there. And basically what 128 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,639 you do is you pick a really good project value. 129 00:06:58,879 --> 00:07:03,319 You pick the best components of everything that you can find. 130 00:07:03,639 --> 00:07:06,920 The best propellant. We had a special propellant built for it. 131 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,399 We ended up with a Sierra MATCHKAG seventy seven, which 132 00:07:11,439 --> 00:07:14,800 is a terrific bullet. We use several different brass, but 133 00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:17,839 right now we're using the Lake City brass. It's the 134 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,360 absolute best. And then you just assemble it with extreme care, 135 00:07:23,079 --> 00:07:26,959 and you buy good components and put together with extreme care, 136 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,560 and that's how you get good ammunition. We don't do 137 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,160 things like uniform primer pockets or trimola brass. We can't 138 00:07:36,199 --> 00:07:38,600 afford to do that for the millions of rounds we 139 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,240 have to produce. So you just get good components, assemble 140 00:07:42,279 --> 00:07:45,800 them with extreme care, and there's tricks we've learned along 141 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,480 the way. But we still have that contract and nobody 142 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,600 else has won it, so I guess we're doing something right. 143 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 2: You also produce specialty AMO for shall we say, special 144 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,199 type units out there that you can't really talk about. 145 00:08:00,279 --> 00:08:03,560 But I got to think that all the special stuff 146 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:08,040 you're doing for special teams put it that way out there, 147 00:08:08,519 --> 00:08:11,319 it kind of filters into the AMMO that the rest 148 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:12,800 of us can buy on store shelves. 149 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,839 Speaker 5: Yes, when the government comes to us, and they'll come 150 00:08:15,879 --> 00:08:19,399 to us on a fairly regular basis, we've developed something 151 00:08:19,439 --> 00:08:23,120 over forty different AMMO items for the military, and they've 152 00:08:23,319 --> 00:08:25,639 learned to trust that. They'll come to us and say, 153 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,639 you know, it'd be nice if we had something that 154 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,000 would do with this. You know, not a sources saw it, 155 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:34,080 just drop a hint and right, We're willing to do 156 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,399 the R and D on it, and we'll we'll work 157 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,919 on it and come up with something that does that 158 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,080 special thing that they want. And once we figure out 159 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,559 how to do that, it does trickle down into the 160 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,159 commercial market quite often. 161 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 2: So what do you learn from that? How do you 162 00:08:50,879 --> 00:08:53,639 incorporate all these things you've learned from doing the special, 163 00:08:54,159 --> 00:08:57,279 high end military stuff to the commercial stuff that we 164 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,200 take out into the field for hunting deer and elk. 165 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:00,840 How do you make better I am? I guess is 166 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:01,480 the real question. 167 00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 5: One of the things that you're propellant makes a really 168 00:09:06,799 --> 00:09:11,440 big difference. Tom. We didn't realize that. It's something we 169 00:09:11,519 --> 00:09:14,440 learned along the way, and two thousand and five we 170 00:09:15,039 --> 00:09:18,480 found that our mark two sixty two needed to have 171 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,200 better tempt stability, and at that time we didn't even 172 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,480 understand what all went into that. But what we've learned 173 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,519 is there's some propellants that are better than others, and 174 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,440 you just learn which propellants and it makes a big 175 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,960 difference because there's probably been a lot of your listeners 176 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,759 out there that have developed a load or bought factory 177 00:09:40,799 --> 00:09:44,840 ammo and it works great. They're out at seventy degrees 178 00:09:44,879 --> 00:09:48,000 and everything is great. But then they get out, for example, 179 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,320 in the middle of a dog town, and dogs like 180 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,480 it when it's nice and bright and sunny and summertime, 181 00:09:54,039 --> 00:09:57,320 and so maybe it's eighty degrees or maybe it's one 182 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,360 hundred degrees and the dogs are still out, so you're 183 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,039 out their shoes and maybe you're shooting a lot because 184 00:10:03,039 --> 00:10:05,879 you're into a good dog town, and your gun gets hot, 185 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,759 you've got a round chambered when everybody says, hey, we've 186 00:10:08,799 --> 00:10:10,440 kind of knocked him down here, let's go over to 187 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,720 the other side of the field. So you spend ten 188 00:10:12,759 --> 00:10:15,000 minutes moving over to the other side of the field, 189 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,720 or even five minutes with around sitting in that super 190 00:10:17,759 --> 00:10:20,679 hot chamber, and then you touch it off when you 191 00:10:20,759 --> 00:10:22,440 line up on a dog and you touch it off 192 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,200 and it blows a primer and you get a little 193 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:25,799 gas back in your face and you're saying, well, I 194 00:10:25,879 --> 00:10:27,879 must have hit a hot round or I must have 195 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,639 put too much into that one. No, what happened there 196 00:10:30,799 --> 00:10:33,679 is that you needed that round up. One thing we've 197 00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:36,879 learned on er ar or an M four, which is 198 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,720 kind of a worst case thing, is those chambers can 199 00:10:39,759 --> 00:10:42,519 get up to over three hundred degrees. So you have 200 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,399 to build ammo that can put up with that kind 201 00:10:45,399 --> 00:10:48,279 of environment where it sits in a chamber for a 202 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,120 minute or so. At at three hundred degrees cooked, you're 203 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,320 really cooking that. And you have to select really good propellant. 204 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,000 That's that's one of the things that we've learned. Just 205 00:10:57,039 --> 00:10:58,960 got to learn what good propellant is and you got 206 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,039 to test for it. 207 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: Interesting. So, yeah, obviously you increase the temperature, you increase 208 00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:06,279 the pressure. Well, you increase the pressure. You know, even 209 00:11:06,279 --> 00:11:08,960 if you're not blowing primers, the bullets are not flying 210 00:11:09,039 --> 00:11:11,080 to the same place because the pressure's higher. 211 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,639 Speaker 5: That shows your experience. That's the other thing for long 212 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,440 range shooters. If you don't have good temp stability on 213 00:11:17,519 --> 00:11:21,000 your propellant and your velocity is changing one hundred and 214 00:11:21,039 --> 00:11:24,720 fifty feet per second when they amunition gets hot, that's 215 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,279 going to affect your trajectory and that can you know 216 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,759 that makes it a lot harder to hit stuff at 217 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,759 eight hundred yards or or beyond that. I'm not advocating 218 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,600 hunting at eight hundred yards, but it's still just a 219 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,360 lot of fun to be able to hit stuff out there. 220 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,879 And if you're having a good time in shooting fast 221 00:11:40,919 --> 00:11:43,759 and you got around the seating up with the chamber 222 00:11:43,799 --> 00:11:45,360 and all of a sudden you're missing, that might be 223 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:46,159 the problem. 224 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 2: Interesting, all right, So I know people right now are 225 00:11:49,919 --> 00:11:51,960 at least if they're not, they should be starting to 226 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,440 think about hunting. Seasons are coming up and getting ready 227 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,879 for that. You have a full ballistic lab. You do 228 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,919 a lot of testing into ballistic gelatin. And I think 229 00:12:00,159 --> 00:12:03,120 you were kind of like me at first. You're thinking, Okay, 230 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,559 the all copper bullets are interesting, but I'm not sure 231 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,919 that they're is good for hunting as the old cup 232 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,919 and core or the bonded bullets. But your testing has 233 00:12:13,919 --> 00:12:15,960 shown they really really do perform. 234 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,159 Speaker 5: They really do. I've become a believer, and that's that's 235 00:12:20,159 --> 00:12:22,960 something because I was, as you said, a skeptic at first. 236 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,200 I thought copper bullets that are harder, they're probably hard 237 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,679 to get jumping up and they'll probably fail at long distance, 238 00:12:29,759 --> 00:12:34,039 and I was absolutely wrong. You can work with that 239 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,840 metal cut weaknesses into the bullet. Basically, you can design 240 00:12:38,919 --> 00:12:42,159 that bullet to pop open immediately when it hits something, 241 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,159 but still retain excellent weight. And you don't need quite 242 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,000 as heavy as a bullet as you do with a 243 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,000 lead bullet because you're not losing weight along the way. 244 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,440 So you can shoot a lighter bullet at a higher velocity. 245 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,840 It offsets what you would think would be a performance 246 00:12:58,919 --> 00:13:02,720 loss on ballistic coefficient. You think, oh, the lighter copper 247 00:13:02,759 --> 00:13:05,080 bullets aren't going to fly as well. Well you can. 248 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,240 You can use a lighter bullet and shoot it faster, 249 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:10,799 and that greatly offsets that problem. But in short, I've 250 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,639 become a believer. I shoot a lot of copper bullets. 251 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,080 All of my armags are loaded with monolithic bullets. 252 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 2: So not just for hunting, but you're even working with 253 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,279 the copper bullets all like self defense loads because sometimes 254 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,039 the bad guys hiding behind something you need to get through. 255 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:34,399 Speaker 5: Yep, exactly. That's another advantage to monolithic bullets is they 256 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,240 can not only retain their weight when they hit the target, 257 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,639 as in jail or an animal, but they're also really 258 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:46,200 good at windshields, car doors, other barriers like that, and 259 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,960 it doesn't come at the risk of overpenetration because normally 260 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,279 you think when you design something to shoot your barriers, 261 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,759 it's going to shoot right through soft targets, and it's 262 00:13:56,919 --> 00:13:59,519 not true. You're going to get stuff that bullets. You 263 00:13:59,519 --> 00:14:02,360 can design them so that will work really good on 264 00:14:02,919 --> 00:14:07,240 game animals or self defense situations without over penetrating, but 265 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,960 still be effective on barriers. You can get the best 266 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,200 of both worlds. You know. 267 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 2: When I hear you talk about that, I'm reminded you're 268 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,279 never very far away from your career as a police 269 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,080 officer or a sniper, are you. 270 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 5: Oh, it's uh. When you become a become a cop, 271 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,679 it's not a job anymore. It's something you internalize it, 272 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,559 so it's kind of hard to give that up. And 273 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:31,399 sniping it's the same thing. You know, you learn a 274 00:14:31,399 --> 00:14:34,799 bunch of stuff. And when I retired as as team leader, 275 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,679 you know, it was kind of an adjustment for me. 276 00:14:37,759 --> 00:14:40,279 I moped around a little bit and find I realized, Jeff, 277 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,919 you're the same guy you always worry you just don't 278 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,320 have the same responsibilities and that helped a lot. But yeah, 279 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,879 you're right, you internalize that and it's you still. You 280 00:14:49,879 --> 00:14:52,200 don't forget everything that you learned, and you still care 281 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,080 about those guys. 282 00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 2: Honestly, Jeff, I will tell you, I like to get 283 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,519 you on here and we'll talk about your products, and 284 00:14:58,559 --> 00:15:00,919 you make some of the very best demo that's on 285 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,840 the market. But mostly I don't want people to know 286 00:15:02,879 --> 00:15:06,519 who you are, and then that permeates your entire company 287 00:15:06,519 --> 00:15:08,519 and everywhere you go. Everybody in the company has that 288 00:15:08,559 --> 00:15:12,120 same attitude that you have of making really good ammo 289 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,120 that people are betting their lives on. And for me, 290 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,759 that's what Black Gulls Ammo is all about. It's it's you, 291 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,480 it's the people there, it's what's behind it. And knowing 292 00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:26,080 that everything around you're making you know that somebody is 293 00:15:26,559 --> 00:15:28,639 betting a hunt or betting their life on it. 294 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 5: That's that's something You're exactly right. Everybody here understands that 295 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,200 what we're doing and that a life could depend on 296 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,600 every round that we make, one story that we tell. 297 00:15:40,919 --> 00:15:44,759 Sometimes We've got a whole room full of lady inspectors 298 00:15:44,759 --> 00:15:47,799 that hand inspect every round of ammunition, and one of 299 00:15:47,799 --> 00:15:50,840 them our son graduated from rangers school and he was deployed. 300 00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:55,480 And all of our lot codes have a plenty of 301 00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:57,960 information on it, including not only who made it, what 302 00:15:58,039 --> 00:16:00,559 machine has made on, but who the inspector was. So 303 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,559 her son, this ranger in Afghanistan. When they'd get a 304 00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:07,279 ship my AMMO and it was Blackhall's AMMO, they would 305 00:16:07,399 --> 00:16:09,919 he would dig through the AMMO to find his mom's 306 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,840 inspection number. So he was shooting ammunition that his mom 307 00:16:13,879 --> 00:16:14,639 had built for him. 308 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:15,399 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 309 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 5: When she reported that back and then his mom called 310 00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:22,000 the rest of the inspectors, all of a sudden, we 311 00:16:22,039 --> 00:16:24,519 had a whole room full of moms. You know, everyone 312 00:16:24,799 --> 00:16:29,120 really understood that it meant something that lives do depend on. 313 00:16:29,159 --> 00:16:31,879 It might be somebody that you really love. There you go, Jeff, 314 00:16:31,879 --> 00:16:34,159 thank you so much. I appreciate what you do. Black 315 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,240 Kill's AMMO is black dash Hills dot com. You make 316 00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:40,159 good stuff, my friend. Oh thank you, Tom, thanks for 317 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:41,120 inviting me on again. 318 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 2: You bet anytime. All right, don't go far, folks, We'll 319 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,519 be right back with more gun talk. 320 00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:50,039 Speaker 6: The new smith and was in model eighteen fifty four 321 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,399 is now chambered in forty five seventy more power, more punch, 322 00:16:54,799 --> 00:16:57,759 more ready than ever for the backcountry. With a twenty 323 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,960 in stainless barrel, large loop lever for gloved hands and 324 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,400 then legendary Smith and Wesson smooth action. This lever gun 325 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,279 is built to run hard and hit harder. Add in 326 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:10,200 a flat phased trigger and classic walnut stock, and you've 327 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,799 got a rifle that honors one hundred and seventy years 328 00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:14,240 of American craftsmanship. 329 00:17:16,519 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 7: Looking for more accuracy, start with the trigger. Timney Triggers 330 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,119 has been providing precisions since nineteen forty six, with over 331 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:27,559 one hundred and seventy trigger models for bolt guns, ars, handguns, 332 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,759 and more. Designed to deliver a crisp, clean break and 333 00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:34,480 built to withstand even the harshest conditions, Timney Triggers gives 334 00:17:34,519 --> 00:17:37,160 you confidence when it matters. 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That's gun 345 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,680 talk dot Com slash win. 346 00:18:17,559 --> 00:18:19,519 Speaker 2: Put all your gear on that you carry and then 347 00:18:19,599 --> 00:18:22,039 roll around on the ground. Now, get up all your 348 00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:24,160 gear that's on the ground. That's what you're not gonna 349 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:24,680 have in a fight. 350 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,759 Speaker 5: Gun Talk should be in your podcast feed. Check out 351 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,640 gun Talk Nation. What's it like to be blown up? 352 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:33,519 Speaker 8: You know, if it's like C four, it's almost like 353 00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:34,920 a smack hunting. 354 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, we talk about that too. On your crosshairs, I 355 00:18:38,599 --> 00:18:40,359 like a thin crosshair. AJ. 356 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,599 Speaker 7: You're really dating yourself by calling things crosshairs. 357 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 5: You're redical whatever. 358 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 8: Have some fun and stay informed with the gun Talk podcast. 359 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,599 Speaker 9: When Ruger set out to build the ultimate pocket pistol, 360 00:18:53,839 --> 00:18:57,599 they succeeded. The LCP Max, now paired with a magpool 361 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,680 in hands handgun grip, delivers everything you need and nothing 362 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,920 you don't. Thirteen rounds of three to eighty in a 363 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,119 frame that disappears in your pocket, a Tritium front site 364 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,640 for fast acquisition and anty light secure action fire control 365 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,000 you could trust with your life. Bruger's legacy of American innovation. 366 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,839 Reimagine for how you carry today the LCP Max with 367 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:18,079 magpul EHG. 368 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 2: Now whether here Tom Grasham Eat six six talk gun 369 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:35,680 or Tom talk gun, that'll get you in here. We're 370 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,720 talking about well pretty much everything we're talking about, well, 371 00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:41,720 different kinds of bullets, kind of loads. We've learned a 372 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,400 little bit about propellants for your reloads from Jeff Hoffman, 373 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,680 and how we got the shoote store that just broke 374 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,559 this week. Actually over the last three weeks, if you will. 375 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,440 Of course, we have the United States Supreme Court deciding 376 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,960 to grant sert to accept a case on an AR 377 00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:04,200 fifteen ban, and that will be heard this fall, probably 378 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,799 get the decision next June. And then on Friday, the 379 00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:12,599 Third Circuit Court of Appeals, which is the final court 380 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,240 before it goes to the Supreme Court, decided that New 381 00:20:17,319 --> 00:20:22,920 Jersey's ban on air fifteens and all semi automatic rifles 382 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,680 is simply unconstitutional and they struck it down. This is 383 00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:29,839 right after the Seventh Circuit, like a week and a 384 00:20:29,839 --> 00:20:33,839 half before that decided that yeah, it's perfectly fine to 385 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,920 ban air fifteens, no problem, it's not unconstitutional at all. 386 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,119 So now you got the Seventh Circuit saying, yeah, you 387 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,400 can ban air fifteens, and the Third Circuit said, no, 388 00:20:43,519 --> 00:20:47,599 you can't, that's unconstitutional, and the Supreme Court's already agreed 389 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,720 to hear a case. Now there's an additional factor in 390 00:20:51,839 --> 00:20:56,440 the Third Circuit decision because they also included in this 391 00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:02,640 case magazines, that is, New Jersey band magazines. They would 392 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,160 hold more than ten rounds. The Court struck that down 393 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,960 and said, that's ridiculous. You mean it's okay to have 394 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,200 ten rounds and not to have eleven rounds. One more 395 00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:16,359 round put you over the limit. That's not constitutional. So 396 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,559 they struck that down too. Now, quick update, if you 397 00:21:19,559 --> 00:21:21,279 are in New Jersey, you don't run out and buy 398 00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:25,920 these things yet, because they have to issue a mandate 399 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,920 on it, and then until that's done, it is not law. 400 00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:33,079 So just relax a little bit, okay. Also, can I 401 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,640 just make a little suggestion as a friend, if you're 402 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,200 in New Jersey and you decide, once it is locked, 403 00:21:40,319 --> 00:21:44,039 run out and buy stuff you may or may not 404 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,720 want to post about it. You may want to be 405 00:21:46,759 --> 00:21:50,039 a little circumspect. It's kind of like flashing your conceal 406 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,400 carry gun and you showing everybody that you're concealed carrying. 407 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,079 I would hold off a little bit, let the water settle, 408 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,200 find out what's going on before you start posting publicly 409 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,880 about buying that. Not to say it's wrong or anything else, 410 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,920 I'm just saying, given the circumstances around there, I'd be 411 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,960 a little bit careful. When we come back. Where are 412 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,640 we talking with Mark Smith from the Four Boxes Diner. 413 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,960 He is perhaps the very best at explaining this kind 414 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,839 of stuff, the inside baseball stuff, on the legal issues, 415 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,400 but he makes it understandable and there's always the well 416 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,519 then what does that mean for the rest of us. 417 00:22:25,599 --> 00:22:27,039 We'll be right back with that if you want to 418 00:22:27,079 --> 00:22:29,960 join us again. Eight six' six talk. Gun I'm Tom 419 00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:31,440 gresham and this is gun. 420 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 5: Talk. 421 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,799 Speaker 8: Hell, yes we're going to take YOUR ar, fifteen YOUR 422 00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:41,559 ak forty. 423 00:22:41,559 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 2: Seven, HEY i actually know you're Not beto Or. Uric 424 00:22:52,759 --> 00:22:55,599 you're not going to take away OUR ak forty seven 425 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,400 is OUR ar Fifteen's, hey welcome. Back I'm Tom. Gresham 426 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,720 this is Gun. Talk jo right now is the GUY 427 00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:02,880 i go to AND i need to understand what's going 428 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,720 on in The Second amendment legal. Front he Is Mark 429 00:23:05,759 --> 00:23:09,039 smith of The Four Boxes. Diner, Mark what a? Week 430 00:23:09,079 --> 00:23:10,519 what are several? Weeks? Right? 431 00:23:11,759 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 10: Tom how you? Doing always a great honor to be 432 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,359 on the. Show and AS i, predicted we are destroying 433 00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:22,559 the anti gun movement In america step by, step president by, 434 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,279 preston week by. Week the trend is our, friend my, 435 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,640 friend and this is. 436 00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 2: Great you are The karnak of gun rights and the. 437 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:37,000 Litigation you predicted This Third circuit opinion almost down to the, 438 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,680 WELL i don't know if it's all one hundred and 439 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,920 ninety four pages, worth but you predicted this one. Perfectly. 440 00:23:43,079 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 10: Yeah well, Right, well you, KNOW i REMEMBER i was 441 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,599 on The trump campaign back in twenty. SIXTEEN i was 442 00:23:48,599 --> 00:23:54,000 on The trump presidential, team the presidential transition. Team so you, 443 00:23:54,039 --> 00:23:56,279 know AND i know a lot of these. Judges i've 444 00:23:56,279 --> 00:23:58,720 been around these elite judges for a long, time member 445 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,440 of The Supreme, court Bar Federalist, society leader and all that. 446 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,720 Stuff SO i have a feel for how people think 447 00:24:05,799 --> 00:24:08,400 and what they're, thinking how they view the. Law and 448 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,000 that's why WHEN i Say this is HOW i think 449 00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:13,640 it's going to play. Out ignore what the mainstream media, 450 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,079 Says ignore what these anti gun pundits, say and these elite, 451 00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:21,519 professors ignore all that. Stuff just listen to me BECAUSE 452 00:24:21,559 --> 00:24:23,079 i have the best feel for. It And i've been 453 00:24:23,079 --> 00:24:25,680 telling everyone we're going To we're gonna win THE ar 454 00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:28,440 fifteen cas it's just the question of. Timing and you, 455 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,119 know we could have won it this. Term but the 456 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,559 truth is The Supreme court this particular Term tom had 457 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,519 so many of these huge blockbuster cases with the, tariffs. 458 00:24:37,319 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 11: With bright, citizenship with the voting. 459 00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 10: Rights at Two Second amendment. Cases they had the, boys you, 460 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,119 know the transgender boys competing in girls' sports. Cases it 461 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,000 was a blockbuster term and that's Why Justice kavanaugh, says, 462 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,960 look we're going to get to the air fifteen issue 463 00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:54,359 in the next term or, two and it just wasn't this. 464 00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:57,000 Term AND i, said, look just, relax it's going to 465 00:24:57,079 --> 00:24:59,240 come to the you, know they only take seventy cases 466 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,880 a year The Supreme. Court it takes, time but we're 467 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,559 going to get where we need to. Be it's, better 468 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,599 as they, say you, know slow as smooth and smooth as. 469 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,799 Fast it's better to get where we need to be 470 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,200 if it takes a little bit, longer and that's where we. 471 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,839 Are The Supreme court is just granted certain in these 472 00:25:13,839 --> 00:25:16,599 the air fifteen, cases and as, predicted This Third Circuit 473 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:21,039 court Of appeals case has basically is a roadmap for 474 00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:23,039 what The Supreme court is going to. Do it's very 475 00:25:23,079 --> 00:25:25,119 similar to WHAT i expect The Supreme court to do 476 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,920 In june twenty twenty. Seven it looks like oral arguments 477 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,920 in those ar cases in front of THE Us Supreme 478 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,519 court are going to take place in the month Of, 479 00:25:32,599 --> 00:25:35,640 december which is kind of WHAT i. Anticipated if you 480 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,839 look at the number of CASES a granted sir two and, 481 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,160 yeah By june twenty twenty, SEVEN i think we're going 482 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,359 to knock out all the semi automatic rifle bands In. 483 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,680 America and This Third circuit case out Of, philadelphia which 484 00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:49,119 knocked out The New jersey bands is a warm up 485 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,640 to the big national win we're going to get in 486 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:52,319 less than twelve. 487 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,799 Speaker 2: Months, okay let me ask you, this because The Third 488 00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:58,400 circuit rules that not only the original thought was or 489 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,440 the challenge was AGAINST a, Fifteen so they, say, yeah that's, 490 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,599 fine but also we're going to take in and bring 491 00:26:04,599 --> 00:26:08,039 in all semi automatic rifles pretty aside the handguns and 492 00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:09,799 the shotguns for a, moment BUT i think they're going 493 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,160 to get to that. Now the QUESTION i have for you, 494 00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:14,759 is but in The Third circuit decision that we just 495 00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:19,039 got On, friday they also brought in magazines and, said, 496 00:26:19,079 --> 00:26:22,200 no you cannot ban magazines that hold more than ten. 497 00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:26,680 Rounds is there a possibility that The Supreme court will then, say, 498 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,359 well why don't we include that in THE ar fifteen? 499 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 10: Case we have, no there is not right, now and 500 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,880 we just to be, clear this is sort of. Counterintuitive 501 00:26:36,279 --> 00:26:38,559 and SOMETIMES i have to tell The Second amendment movement 502 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,920 stuff they don't want to, hear because it's my job 503 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,279 on my, channel The Four Boxes, diners you, Know, tom 504 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,440 to tell people the way it is in the real 505 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,400 world and not just screamshall not being friends and all this. 506 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,319 Stuff and here's here's the real world situation with The Supreme. 507 00:26:52,319 --> 00:26:54,960 Court we're going to WIN ar. Fifteens we're gonna win 508 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,640 semi automatic. Rifles that is a massive. Victory we do 509 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,799 not want the magazine issue blended in with this. Case 510 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,000 why BECAUSE i think there is an outside chance that 511 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,319 if we put the magazine issue in this case with 512 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,200 THE ar fifteen ban, issue and they're both, there there 513 00:27:12,279 --> 00:27:15,519 is a chance a chance then we could see a 514 00:27:15,599 --> 00:27:18,559 split the baby situation where The Supreme court rules in 515 00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:21,039 our favor FOR ar, fifteens which they're going to, do 516 00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:24,799 but for some reason agrees that some limitations can. 517 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,799 Speaker 11: Be had on magazines because they'll be, like, oh. 518 00:27:26,799 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 10: Well we'll kind of split the baby. Here so the 519 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,839 proper approach, here in my, view is we WIN ar 520 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,279 fifteen semi automatic, rifles which will be a massive victory 521 00:27:36,319 --> 00:27:39,440 because basically the anti gun billionaire classes spend all their 522 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,880 money on the banning of these guns the last decade or. 523 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,640 So then what we do tom is we go after 524 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,440 and win at The Supreme court the suppressor issue because, 525 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,880 suppressors unlike, magazines have no offensive capabilities in the sense 526 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,319 that you, know no one is getting killed in a 527 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,480 mass shooting with, suppressors so you so what We but 528 00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:02,480 here's the, thing the nothingology the interpreters of the approach 529 00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:08,400 to interpreting The Second amendment is identical to suppressors and to. Magazines, 530 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,559 Right neither in and of themselves are. Guns neither of 531 00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:14,319 them in and of themselves called bang bang, right they're kind 532 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,720 of accouterments or, accessories but they all are the same, thing, 533 00:28:18,759 --> 00:28:21,039 because As bruin said in twenty twenty, two The Supreme 534 00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:24,359 court said that an arm under The Second amendment is any, 535 00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:30,400 instrument any, instrument physical, object a instrument that facilitates armed self. Defense, 536 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,799 obviously magazines and suppressious facilitate armed self. Defense they're both. 537 00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:38,839 Objects they're both. Instruments so if we win the suppresser, 538 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,640 case by, definition we're easily going to win the magazine. 539 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,039 Case so to, me we win ar. Fifties we win, 540 00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:46,480 suppressers which is an easy case because there's, no LIKE i, 541 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,000 said nobody's using Those kimment mass. Shootings then we take 542 00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:53,000 out the magazines in that. Order and again we want 543 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,839 to learn from the gay rights, movement Tom. As you, 544 00:28:54,839 --> 00:28:57,279 know the gay rights movement doesn't just jump right to gay. 545 00:28:57,279 --> 00:28:59,759 Marriage they start step by step by step over period 546 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,640 to twy five years to get the gay. Marriage we 547 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,160 want that, incremental step by step island hopping. Approach, Right 548 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,680 you don't just Attack japan On december nineteen forty. One 549 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,599 you need to capture the islands and battle and battle and, 550 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,440 battle and then you Destroy japan and go after the. 551 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,880 Mainland it's the same marroach when it comes to Our Second. 552 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 2: Amendment you build a wall one brick at the. Time 553 00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:21,440 SO i got a question for. YOU i was thinking 554 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,519 about this before you came, on and you talk a 555 00:29:23,559 --> 00:29:27,400 lot about the, methodology and then we're establishing the, methodology 556 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,519 And i'm, thinking what does that? Mean AND i think 557 00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:32,039 what you mean to? You explain it to those of 558 00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:34,799 us who are not. Lawyers you're actually saying that the 559 00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:39,119 courts are actually issuing a set of rules and say 560 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,680 these are the rules you must use when you are 561 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,480 examining these. Cases isn't that what the methodology. 562 00:29:44,599 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 10: Is that's. Right they're basically setting for it the criteria 563 00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:51,799 or the approach to interpreting The Second. Amendment because there's 564 00:29:51,799 --> 00:29:53,759 two things to keep in, Mind. TOM a lot of 565 00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:56,000 people say that The Second, amendment the right to keep 566 00:29:56,039 --> 00:30:00,200 in their, arms codifies codifies a pre existing, right one 567 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,359 hundred percent. Correct The Supreme court has repeatedly said that 568 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,880 The Second amendment codified a right that we already. Had 569 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,480 it just put it down on. Taper so the question, 570 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,240 is if you're going to codify a pre existing, right 571 00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:15,119 you have to go back in. Time tom historically and 572 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,839 understand what exactly was the scope of the right that 573 00:30:20,039 --> 00:30:22,480 was basically being. Codified so you have to go back 574 00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:24,960 to before seventeen ninety one and try to understand when 575 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,359 the founding fathers wrote The Second, amendment what were they 576 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,119 trying to, protect what were they not trying to? Protect 577 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,559 and that's why this new, methodology which is not really, 578 00:30:33,599 --> 00:30:35,720 new it's From, hiller but they clarified. That it, Says, 579 00:30:35,759 --> 00:30:37,680 look you start with the plain text of The Second, 580 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,640 amendment the right of the people to keep in their 581 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,400 arm shall not be shall not be. Infringed then you 582 00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:45,279 define every term what is to, bear which means to, 583 00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:47,759 carry what is to, keep which means to. Possess who 584 00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:50,839 are the, people they're All american. Citizens what are? Arms, 585 00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:53,440 well it's any in the commused offensive or, defensively or 586 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,519 anything that facilitates armed self defense isn't armed under the plain. 587 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,799 Text then once a modern dy gun control LAW tom 588 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,799 is covered by those, definitions by those, terms the bruises 589 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,359 to the government to show, historically if there's historical laws 590 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,200 on the books going all the way, back that would 591 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,519 sort of car out an. Exception so the EXAMPLE i 592 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,920 like to GIVE tom is we know for a fact 593 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,079 that the right to keep environments does not protect the 594 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,440 right to commit cold blood and. Murder but how do 595 00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:21,799 we actually know? That think about, That how do we know. 596 00:31:21,839 --> 00:31:24,359 That the answer, is we know that historically that before 597 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,480 the Second man was, adopted at the time the second 598 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,920 amend was, adopted and after the second one was adopted through, 599 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,680 today the right to keep en barraums does not allow 600 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:31,880 you to. 601 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,079 Speaker 11: Go out and commit murder with a. 602 00:31:33,119 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 10: Gun so that would be an example of using history 603 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,720 to draw an exception to The. 604 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:38,759 Speaker 11: Plaintech and you're. 605 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 10: Right this whole, methodology this approached the burden shifting to the, 606 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,319 government forcing the government to prove historically that they are 607 00:31:44,359 --> 00:31:47,240 exception is real and their modernity gun control law falls 608 00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:49,920 within an exception of THE. Plaintex all that is mission, 609 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,839 critical and if the methodology is favorable to The Second, 610 00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:55,680 amendent it means we win virtually every Single Second amendent 611 00:31:55,759 --> 00:31:57,960 case and knock out all the gun laws In america 612 00:31:58,079 --> 00:32:00,799 except those that say you cannot miss you guns and 613 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,839 or if you're a violent danger to. Others all, Right. 614 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,319 Speaker 2: So explain this to, me BECAUSE i think What i'm 615 00:32:06,319 --> 00:32:09,920 hearing people say about the third. Circuit, yeah In New. 616 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,240 Jersey this applies In New jersey and all the three 617 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,880 states in the, circuit is that people shouldn't rush out 618 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,359 to buy an ar or the magazines because is it 619 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:21,759 a mandate that has to be. 620 00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 10: Issued, well this is kind of a little gets a little, 621 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,680 nerdy and WHAT i recommend that people do is that 622 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,200 they pick up the phone and they call it The 623 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,319 Firearms Posse coalition or the other organizations evolved and just 624 00:32:33,359 --> 00:32:37,400 simply ask them what do they. Recommend the bottom line 625 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,039 is this that after The court Of appeals issues this, 626 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,920 opinion at some point a mandate. Issues now what the 627 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,640 mandate is is a fancy word that just says The 628 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,680 Third circuit is now done with the. Case they're sending 629 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,720 it back down to the lower courts for the entry 630 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,599 of a judgment and all this other good, stuff and 631 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,440 they're done with. It they're basically, Saying, okay. 632 00:32:55,279 --> 00:32:56,599 Speaker 11: We've issued our, decision we made the. 633 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,799 Speaker 10: Decision we're moving on. Now the truth is, really at 634 00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:03,880 this point everything in The Third circuit that violates that 635 00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:06,400 opinion is problematic for this point of view of the. 636 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,880 Government but on the other, hand you are in sort 637 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,200 of anti gun jurisic and Like New, jersey and nothing 638 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,079 would prevent the government from trying to harass gun owners just. 639 00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 11: Because and, again so. 640 00:33:16,319 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 10: That's why, yes once the mandate, ISSUES i, think technically, 641 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,000 SPEAKING i don't see How New jersey has a leg 642 00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:23,839 to stand on in terms of enforcing these. Laws that's 643 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,960 their circus that are. Unconstitutional but AGAIN i would check 644 00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:30,119 with either you, know the relevant lawyers for your gun rights, 645 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,279 groups with your gun, club or with again the Fire 646 00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:35,720 N's Policy coalition and make sure that you're aligned with. 647 00:33:35,799 --> 00:33:39,720 Them because of, course technically, speaking when you win a 648 00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:42,680 case like, this it only binds the parties. Involved so 649 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,359 if you're not a member of the Fire N's Policy, 650 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,119 coalition there's an argument that maybe you're not. Covered but 651 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,200 the truth IS i Think New jersey is dead meat 652 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,240 and as a legal, matter they cannot get around. This 653 00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:55,119 but you don't want to be harassed in the. Process 654 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,960 does that make? Sense, yeah, no that makes perfect. Sense 655 00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,359 you don't want to be first in line on this. 656 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: Thing just let it percolate a little, bit, right because 657 00:34:02,319 --> 00:34:03,279 if you buy the gun and. 658 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 10: They arrest, you, say, oh we don't think it's finding, 659 00:34:05,559 --> 00:34:07,960 yet well then they can arrest you and then you'll 660 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,000 get to hire a, lawyer than the lawyer will circus opinion. 661 00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:12,280 Speaker 11: That you'll win the, meeting but then you'll have to 662 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:12,639 go through the. 663 00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,599 Speaker 10: Headache so avoid the, headache right all. 664 00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,599 Speaker 2: Right one other, thing we just got THE us government 665 00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:22,119 in The department Of justice just withdrew ITS i guess 666 00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:26,320 opposition to an, appeal basically saying that now if you're 667 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,519 a member of The Fire's Policy coalition or The Second Amendment, 668 00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:32,559 foundation you may now carry in a post. Office unlet's 669 00:34:32,559 --> 00:34:35,760 do eli military base or in a federal. Building this 670 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,679 is a really interesting. Thing but people are, saying, well 671 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,239 why DO i have to belong to those groups to 672 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,920 have this second member right to carry into a post? 673 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,039 Office but it's kind of the. Court they're issuing very 674 00:34:48,119 --> 00:34:49,920 narrow opinions right, now aren't. 675 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,679 Speaker 10: They, yeah, well this is really a constitutional. Matter if 676 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,320 you look at THE Us, constitution increase three branch of the. 677 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,920 Government article three creates the, judiciary meaning the federal, court 678 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,800 including THE Us Supreme, court and In article three it 679 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,920 says that courts only have jurisdiction to resolve what are 680 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,639 known as cases or, controversies which means you actually have 681 00:35:08,679 --> 00:35:11,360 a fight between two people or more, over some, issue 682 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,519 the Fire Arms POLICY colist and The second amend Of 683 00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:16,880 foundation on behalf of their current. Members then future members 684 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,199 brought the lawsuit against the Federal grumman saying we should 685 00:35:19,199 --> 00:35:21,880 be able to carry guns and post, offices and the 686 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,639 court agreed with. That but the court only has authority 687 00:35:24,679 --> 00:35:26,760 to enter a judgment for the people in front of, 688 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,679 it the specific. Party and because the parties in front 689 00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:31,840 of them are The Firearms Policy coalis and The Second 690 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,400 Amendment foundation and current and future members of, those that's 691 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,199 the only people that the court has jurisdiction and authority 692 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,800 to like, protect if you know What i'm, saying because. 693 00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 11: Of article three of The. 694 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 10: Constitution so if you're not a member OF fpc. 695 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,639 Speaker 11: Or future you, know you can join today and. 696 00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 10: You'll be COVERED, fpc R, Scf but if you're, not technically, 697 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,559 speaking you're not protected by the judgment because you're not a. 698 00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:53,440 Party and the reason why you're not a party is 699 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,639 because again Under article three of The, constitution federal courts 700 00:35:56,679 --> 00:35:59,760 only have the jurisdiction to resolve issues for the parties 701 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,239 to in front of. Them they can't set forth like 702 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,679 a national policy like they're The. Congress, Hey, MARK i don't. 703 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 2: KNOW i, MEAN i recommend your channel all the time on, 704 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,840 YouTube just go to four box Of. Steiner but my 705 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,360 question for you is are you having as much fun 706 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:14,320 as it looks like you. 707 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,800 Speaker 10: Are, well it's a little stressful because ALTHOUGH i enjoy 708 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,760 WHAT i, DO i do recognize that WHEN i say 709 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,280 things and WHEN i you, know WHEN i write my 710 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,199 scholarship AND i write my lawry, articles very important people 711 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,800 are reading those things and following WHAT i. Say so 712 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,719 it's very important to WHAT i say and WHAT i 713 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,840 write is accurate and precise BECAUSE i know a lot 714 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,840 of people that are in positions of influence are paying 715 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,679 close attention to WHAT i. Say SO i take that 716 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,199 job very. Seriously SO i have a great, time AND 717 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,679 i want to win For. America but you, know OBVIOUSLY 718 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,280 i don't get it anything, wrong SO i got to 719 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,400 be focused on, it and that brings a little amount 720 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,760 of stress to WHAT i do because every, word every, 721 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,039 comma every footnote can have real. Ramification So i'm very. 722 00:36:56,039 --> 00:36:57,880 Careful but SO i have a great time doing. It 723 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,400 BUT i also RECOGNIZE i have a serious job to 724 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,840 do in my, mind and that's What i'm trying to. 725 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,639 Speaker 2: Do we are fortunate to have. YOU i appreciate you 726 00:37:05,679 --> 00:37:07,880 taking time to join us, here AND i love what 727 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,079 you do on the channel AND i recommend it. Highly 728 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,960 Mark smith from The Four boxes dying and look you 729 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,920 go and keep this. Up, man we need you doing this. 730 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 10: Stuff, well you know soon but soon, soon figures Cross, 731 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,119 Tom i'm going to put myself out of a job 732 00:37:20,159 --> 00:37:22,679 and you won't need me. Anymore, oh that's highly. 733 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 2: UNLIKE i don't think they're ever going to give up 734 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:25,199 trying to take away our. 735 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,559 Speaker 11: Guns, well we can only. 736 00:37:27,679 --> 00:37:30,559 Speaker 2: Hope all, right take care Of, mark you'd be. GOOD 737 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,079 i tell you What Mark smith. Is he has quoted a. 738 00:37:35,159 --> 00:37:38,400 Lot his articles he, writes like for The Harvard Law, 739 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,519 journal are actually used in briefs and cited for The Supreme. 740 00:37:42,559 --> 00:37:45,199 Court it's an amazing stuff and he has a way 741 00:37:45,199 --> 00:37:49,239 of making things. Understandable NOW i do. Understand people, say, 742 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,480 WELL i have to run him like at eighty percent 743 00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:53,840 speed SO i can understand what he's saying on his. Videos, 744 00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:56,280 hey do what you got to. Do he is full 745 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,880 of information and he does have a way of explaining. 746 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,360 It you may have to watch a few of his 747 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,880 videos to, Say, Okay i'm starting to understand what he's saying, 748 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,360 now but if you truly want to be one of 749 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:13,400 the most most informed people On Second amendment litigation and 750 00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:17,920 the theory and the plan and what's actually going, on 751 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,480 you want to read his stuff because people, say, well you, 752 00:38:20,519 --> 00:38:23,199 know we should just Go, yeah that's not how it. 753 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,039 Works as even explaining you got to win this issue 754 00:38:27,639 --> 00:38:30,719 to set up the next. ISSUE i, mean thirty years, 755 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,000 ago people were in that world were telling, me, look 756 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,360 this is basic civil rights. Litigation we have to start 757 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,639 working at the basic level and win that, one and 758 00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:41,800 then we. Build so we get The heller, decision we 759 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,920 get The brewing, decision we get you, know each one 760 00:38:45,039 --> 00:38:47,400 is a building block to the. Next you, know back 761 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,480 then they knew they were going after the air fifteen, 762 00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:51,960 bands but they couldn't do it thirty years. Ago but 763 00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:54,679 you know, what that thirty years at work on this 764 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,559 is paying off and we are going to get. THAT i, 765 00:38:57,599 --> 00:38:59,719 mean we are going to win this at The Supreme. 766 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,880 Court these air fifteen bands and these bands on semi automatic, 767 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,559 firearms they're all going down in every, state all fifty 768 00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:12,000 states of the, Country they're all going. Down it's gonna 769 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,840 be a new. DAY i think it's time for a 770 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,039 wellness check on the gun band. Groups i'm not sure 771 00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:19,760 they're healthy right. Now they may be distressed a. Bit 772 00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:31,039 not put me, Here Tom, Gresham we'll take your, know your, 773 00:39:31,039 --> 00:39:34,400 calls your range, reports anytime you. Want eight sixty Six 774 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,239 talk gun Or Tom talk. Gun are you getting ready 775 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,199 for hunting? Season because it's coming up faster than you 776 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,519 are ready For generally most of us sneaks up on 777 00:39:42,599 --> 00:39:44,320 us and, go oh, wow it's time. Again yeah it, 778 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,159 Is and depending on where you, are it could start 779 00:39:47,199 --> 00:39:50,639 as early as next, month certainly In september in many. 780 00:39:50,679 --> 00:39:54,559 Areas i'm doing big game. Hunting question for, you how 781 00:39:54,559 --> 00:39:56,719 do you? Practice how do you get? Ready how do 782 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:58,239 you get your rifle? Ready how do you get your 783 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,199 your gear? Ready and how do you get you? Ready 784 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,559 what do you do at the? Range or even not 785 00:40:07,639 --> 00:40:09,079 at the, range didn't have to be at the. Range 786 00:40:09,079 --> 00:40:11,400 you may be doing dry fire practice with your big game, 787 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,119 rifle which is a really good, idea a practicing going 788 00:40:15,159 --> 00:40:18,280 from standing to sitting to prone or whatever and getting 789 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,360 down in that position and getting a shot off. QUICKLY 790 00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:24,679 i swear more animals owe their lives to hunters that 791 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,760 can't get on target and pull the trigger. QUICKLY i 792 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,639 mean they're thirty seconds or a, minute trying to find the, 793 00:40:30,679 --> 00:40:32,719 animal trying to get the safety, off trying to find 794 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,039 it in the, scope and on and on and. On, no, no, no, 795 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,679 no from the time you see it to the time 796 00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:39,719 you get a shot off shouldn't be more than ten seconds. 797 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,440 PERIOD i, mean you got to know how to get 798 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,519 into position and get a shot. Off, Okay i'd love 799 00:40:46,559 --> 00:40:48,840 to know what do you? Do how do you get 800 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,320 ready or do you not do? Anything do you say 801 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,719 what's always good? Enough and, look if you're shooting out 802 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,960 of a tree stand or a box blind and maybe 803 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,800 it's not a big. Deal it kind of depends on 804 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,079 where you are and what you. DO i did want to, 805 00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:07,159 mention going back to our last, interview the decision by 806 00:41:07,159 --> 00:41:11,519 The Third circuit on air fifteens goes all the way 807 00:41:11,519 --> 00:41:13,519 back to The heller, decision which says you cannot ban 808 00:41:13,639 --> 00:41:19,280 guns that are in common use for lawful purposes such 809 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,079 as self defense or what some of the courts have 810 00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:27,119 been doing to be able to finesse a ban is to, say, 811 00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:32,880 WELL aar fifteens are not in common use for self. Defense, 812 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,960 well that's not what The heller decision, says it says 813 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,840 in common use for lawful, purposes and then give self 814 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,199 defense as one, example but it's not limited to. That 815 00:41:42,039 --> 00:41:44,960 and then the course would, say, well they're not really 816 00:41:45,039 --> 00:41:47,000 used for self defense because people aren't being shot with. 817 00:41:47,039 --> 00:41:49,880 Them people aren't using their air fifties to shoot. People 818 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,920 that's not what it means to use a gun in 819 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:59,519 self defense owning a. Gun The Third circuit ruled simply 820 00:41:59,599 --> 00:42:03,599 owning a gun for self defense is using a gun 821 00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:07,159 for self. Defense and now we have more than thirty 822 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,639 MILLION aar fifteens and a whole bunch more other semi 823 00:42:10,679 --> 00:42:15,079 automatic rifles out. There that's certainly common. USE i guarantee. 824 00:42:15,119 --> 00:42:17,119 You and the question is going to be are we 825 00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:20,679 going to get that applied to handguns and? Shotguns, yeah we. 826 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,920 Are there's no way that they can say you can't 827 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,880 BAN ar fifteens or you can't ban semiotic, rifles but 828 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,760 you can ban semiato. Handguns that's not gonna. Fly so 829 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,920 those are going to go away as. Well, now whether 830 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,840 or not that gets included in the case that The 831 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,400 Supreme court's going to, HEAR i don't. Know and, Yes 832 00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:45,519 i'm like the rest of YOU i am impatient AND 833 00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:47,800 i want it all. Now But i've also learned through 834 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,719 decades of doing this that we don't get it all. 835 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:55,760 Now we lost our rights, incrementally and we are regaining 836 00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:01,760 our rights. Incrementally And i'll take the. Win it may 837 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,159 not be the whole, wind But i'll take whatever WIN 838 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,000 i can, get And i'll come back and try to 839 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,079 get some. More two. Things one is you'll notice that 840 00:43:10,119 --> 00:43:13,119 The Fire's Policy coalition and The Second Moment foundation are 841 00:43:13,159 --> 00:43:15,400 at the core of some of. These THE nra actually 842 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,840 was the entity that had the lawsuit at the Third. 843 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,840 Circuit you need to belong to these, groups one or 844 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,320 more or all of. Them you just. Do you just 845 00:43:28,519 --> 00:43:31,679 need to put your money. Up that's called putting your 846 00:43:31,679 --> 00:43:33,840 money where your mouth. Is because shooting off your mouth 847 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,280 about second movements shout out being friends without putting money. 848 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,039 Up spare, me you're not doing a darning. Thing you're 849 00:43:40,079 --> 00:43:42,079 not helping us at. On give me a call an 850 00:43:42,079 --> 00:43:43,559 eighty six y six talk. Gun how do you get 851 00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:47,760 ready for hunting? Season, also do you belong to the national? 852 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:53,079 Groups and if you don't tell, me, Why, Okay i'll 853 00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:55,159 give you the. Floor I'm Tom, greshould be right. 854 00:43:55,199 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 5: Back