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Speaker 1: There are countless movies made in in concert and consultation

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with the CIA for many decades. There's a lot of

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different levels to this, you know. You can look at

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for example, Ian Fleming himself. The character of Bond was

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used as a Cold War symbol and as a form

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of Cold War propaganda, and so when Fleming was writing

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his stories, he was basing a lot of the Bond

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novels on real operations that he had been involved in,

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like Operation a Golden Eye, which was an anti Franco

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of anti fascist operation. You have Operation Mincemeat which he

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was involved in, which they've made films based on that.

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Speaker 2: So YouTube a X it is at Jay Dyer and Caleb.

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I don't if you're going to throw all three books

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up there or just the most recent one. I don't

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know how Jay has time to do comedy. He's been

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writing so many damn books and doing so much work

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in his own educational training. Jay, welcome to the program.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, doctor Drew. Glad to be here with you.

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Speaker 2: I seriously, I don't know how you have time for

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comedy with all the writing and all the training you've

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been doing. But I'm glad you're here doing all of it.

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Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, that was not something that I

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really thought I would end up doing. But I think

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the way that media works now, you kind of do

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your own thing, and then the more of your personality

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that comes forth, you just kind of roll with it.

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Speaker 3: And so I ended up kind of falling.

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Speaker 1: In line with a lot of the comedian podcasts and

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doing shows with them and enjoying it quite a bit.

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And so I ended up writing for Sam Hi the

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last year for his show. So it's been a roller

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coaster ride. It's a lot of fun, but also like

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doing you know, the educational stuff. On the other hand

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as well.

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Speaker 2: Sam is another bright guy, and that is not lightlifting

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writing for Sam, I assume. But let's talk about Sam

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is a really smart guy. Let's talk about Hollywood and

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the concerns and observations you have as somebody trained in

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certain kinds of psychology to how people are manipula. Well,

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let's talk about that first. Are you worried about as

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I am. I'll turn over my cards. The behavior of crowds.

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I feel like we have been a tendency to mob

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action that emerges periodically in history, whether you start with

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seventeen ninety France or you know, nineteen thirty two Germany,

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whatever it is, we're in one again. It feels like

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and there's lots of true believers flying around engendering chaos.

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Is this what's happening? Are you concerned about that?

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Speaker 3: Yes? You know, you say chaos, chaos for chaos, and

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don't you know it's just chaos. Depends on what you mean, though,

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I couldn't help me.

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Speaker 2: I thought you were going to go I thought you

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were going to go into maximwell smart, so.

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Speaker 1: I had to go straight Jordan Peters. The word chaos

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triggers Peterson in my head. But you know, like you

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actually I studied the French Revolution pretty in depth as

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well when I was an undergrad and a professor who

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was a specialist in that. And you're right, I think

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to make the parallels between mob psychology, which was really

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kind of I guess a modern thought getting collated, I

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guess you could say, with socialism and communism and Marxism.

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But I just covered a book on my channel a

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few months ago by a He was an Allied psychologist

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during the time of World War Two.

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Speaker 3: His name is Juice Mr.

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Speaker 1: Lou and he wrote a book about mob psychology many

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many decades before, you know, doctor Malone talked about massformation,

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psychosis and this kind of stuff, and he said that

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he noticed that the socialist movements had really perfected this

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technique and quite a few chapters in that book that

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were applicable to Hollywood and the way Hollywood kind of

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forms attitudes and creates culture. Culture creationists so that we

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talk about a lot on my channel, but also kind.

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Speaker 3: Of predicting what social media would do.

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Speaker 1: And then when you get this sort of melding of fame, internet, fame,

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social media with the idea of Hollywood and influencers kind

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of being the new A listers and this kind of stuff,

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it's a very toxic, dangerous mix. But it's also something

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that social engineers have studied to perfect in order to

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kind of control society.

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Speaker 2: And do you are you seeing evidence of that kind

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of premeditated activity from Hollywood?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, one of the things that I focused

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on in my grad work, and I ended up just

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kind of putting that work into more of a popular

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readable book rather than something that was you know, academic

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that nobody's ever going to read, you know, this master's

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thesis or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: It's just going to sit there on a shelf.

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Speaker 1: I thought, why not take this information and kind of

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make it accessible and readable. And I think everybody's probably

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familiar with the way Hollywood uses product placement. You know,

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that's a classic style of getting people to purchase a

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product because James Bond was associated with it or.

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Speaker 3: Something like that.

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Speaker 1: But it gets a little more nefarious as you get

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deeper into subliminals. I think everybody's sort of that kind

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of stuff. But beyond that, there's also war propaganda. There

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are countless movies made in in concert and consultation with

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the CIA from many decades. That was something that was

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done a long time ago, more on the down low,

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from the nineteen forties, even back to the nineteen twenties.

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Howard Hughes, you know, he would make war propaganda films.

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The OSS would work with Hollywood to make certain screenplays

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and films, and even a less actors have been famous spies.

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Speaker 3: All over the place. Yeah, it was in those films, exactly. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Stewart was an FBI produced movies. You have people

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like Julia Child, the famous chef TV chef. She was

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actually an OSS operative, which people don't know that before

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she was a chef. But yeah, well you know, in

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the third book, actually it did a whole chapter just

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on this because it was so fascinating to see all

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these people that people didn't know about. Sterling Hayden. He

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was an operative for the OSS. John Ford made films

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in concert with the OSS. And then as you get

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up into the seventies and eighties, same thing going on there,

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even to the point of, you know, Ben Affleck recently

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was touting the CIA and how glad he was to

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work with him to make films like Argo. You have

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films like Zero Dark thirty all being made openly with

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the CIA. So what used to be kind of a secretive,

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you know, behind closed doors things, is now kind of an.

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Speaker 2: Open ster hates Sterly holloways Wennie the Pooh, who was

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Sterly Hayden.

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Speaker 1: Well, he was one of the A listers back in

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the forties, very very prominent, kind of you know up

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there with like Humphrey Boguard and Cary Grant and Carry Grant.

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Speaker 3: By the way, it was a spy too, he would

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he would spy for us.

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Speaker 2: So I want to I want to I want to

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push back a little bit and say because I've been

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around all this stuff too for a long time, and

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whenever somebody's producing anything for media consumption, they just they

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they get kind of captured by what works. They kind

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of ab tests a lot, and then what works, they

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go and they launch into it, and then they builds momentum.

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So it's rarely, in my experience, premeditated. And the same

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thing with the CIA involvement. They get the CIA in

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and the FBI and and the military and to tell

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us how it really happens, to give us the dal

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we want this to be authentic, and then they don't

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understand that with that authenticity comes a bunch of subliminal

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messages that the CIA make sure they put into their films.

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So in a way, they're just useful idiots.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't want to be overly, you know, simplistic,

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as if it's all or nothing, as if everyone's part

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of a grand conspiracy. I certainly don't believe that. I

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think there's a lot of different levels to this. But

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you know, there's a lot of things on record that

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have come out, things that were declassified the National Archives,

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things like that that I've covered in the third book.

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But you know, you can look at, for example, Ian

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Fleming himself. What I focused on in my grad work

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was the way that the character of Bond was used

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as a Cold War symbol and as a form of

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Cold War propaganda. And so when Fleming was writing his stories,

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he was basing a lot of the Bond novels on

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real operations that he had been involved in, like Operation

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a Golden Eye, which was an anti Franco of anti

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fascist operation. You have Operation Mincemeat which he was involved in,

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which they've made films based on that. So there's different

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levels to this, but there's also that level of propaganda

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which I think most people can kind of connect with,

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and a lot of times.

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Speaker 3: That's the big blockbusters.

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Speaker 1: Usually blockbusters have a decent amount of propaganda inserted into them,

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but like you said, you know, it's not every director

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or every person being you know in some some kind

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of agent or something like that, and so I think.

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Speaker 3: It's more sparse than that.

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Speaker 1: But you know, Edward Burneese said that Hollywood is the

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greatest engine of propaganda the world has ever seen, and

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he put that in his famous book Propaganda. So they've

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known this for a long time, and it's just a

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tool that I think has been utilized and are often,

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but it's not, you know, something that always is making

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everybody an agent or something.

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Speaker 2: No, listen, you look no further than how COVID. You

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know how the news media and the various outlets were

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used during COVID, and then then they marched on into

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the social media world and tried to manipulate that and

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now this, thank god, some pushback, but it's it all

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seems like business as usual to me. And they get

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compliance by various meats, paying people off, mustling them, you know,

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sort of inserting stuff, you know, without their knowledge into it.

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But it be that as it may. I want I

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want to ask two things, what are the differences amongst

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the three books? Why did you need to write three?

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And what am I going to learn from each? And

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then I want to go back to the Juice Borloo

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and the Madness of Crowds. So let's talk about your

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books first.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.

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Speaker 1: So the first book was something that came about that

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I didn't expect it to be a book.

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Speaker 3: So I've been writing a lot of essays and.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me, treatments of film from a more of an

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academic perspective, or if you take a college class. You'll

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you'll do what's called a close reading, where you kind

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of read Dostievsky or somebody like that at different levels

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and try to decode it and pick out the symbolism

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and the meaning. And so I sort of started writing

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movie analyses in the same way. Eventually a publisher reached

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out and said, hey, you should do it. You should

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do a book with the style of analysis that you do.

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That's really the first one, which mainly focused on the

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big director, So I focused on Kubrick. I focused on Hitchcock, Spielberg,

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a lot of the big names and their blockbusters and.

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Speaker 3: What was good and what was bad. It's not all

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a critique.

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Speaker 1: It's just sort of an analysis of the way that

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symbols are used in film to program us, both on

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a conscious and in a subconscious level.

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Speaker 3: So it's a lot of different things.

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Speaker 1: There's you know, Carl Jung style union analysis comes into

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it at times, propaganda, the history behind this or that film,

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and relationship to Ucia consultation or whatever.

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Speaker 3: So it's a lot of different things.

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Speaker 1: The second film focused thematically on different topics within a

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bunch of different films. So I talked about the relationship

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of Hollywood to organize crime, what's real and what's not

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real between various mob movies, and how you know, we

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kind of were sold the picture of the villain being

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the good guy through a lot of mafia movies, and

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so now we kind of look to the you know,

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Tony Soprano is the good guy, and that kind of

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stuff's a lot of inversion when it comes to morals

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and ethics. And then in the third book, because I'd

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had so many people say over the years, hey, you

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never did this movie. You never did Christopher Nolan movies,

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you never did Marvel movies.

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Speaker 3: I'm not a huge Marvel fan.

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Speaker 1: But I decided that, well, they're the biggest blockbusters the

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last twenty years. So if I say the blockbusters are

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a lot of propaganda, I guess I should cover them.

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So first eighty pages is Christopher Nolan and Union archetypes

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and Marvel analysis. I have a really extensive sixty page,

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seventy page critique of feminist some in Hollywood and how

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there's a sort of a presentation that women are all

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now supposed to be what men typically are, which I

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think is kind of an intentional, subversive, subversive approach to storytelling.

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And then I get into fun stuff. There's comedic stuff.

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There's b movies that we cover that I thought were

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kind of funny. And then I get into relationship between

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CIA in Hollywood and how Hollywood is presented in times

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in apocalypse films, which I think is fascinating because Hollywood's

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kind of dying. It's on its own little apocalypse, and

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then it's turning into this other thing of influencers and

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you know game basically gaming is kind of taking over unfortunately.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so lightlifting, like decoding Dostyevsky. So's there sounds

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sounds mind evangel just I just trying to read Dostoevsky's

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and penetrate it as hard enough.

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Speaker 3: So well, it's not that hard. Fascinating example, I just

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thought of an example. It's not as bad as.

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Speaker 2: Suf It's not that hard, well.

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Speaker 3: At all, challenge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it all sounds very fascinating and worth. I mean,

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it's sort of historically significant. I'm glad you're putting it

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down for the record because when people do look back

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at this time, film is one of these things that

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is you know, I look at it all as just

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these technologies that come along, and you know, but before

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there was stage and then stage lights, and then there

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were then there was amplification, and then this celluloid thing

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comes along, and then this television thing comes along, and

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then vinyl records, and these are all technologies that get

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exploited in massive ways by people that produce content for

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these things. What I find really interesting is they always

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tend to go towards it's it's sort of performers that

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kind of use it, uh to it to put their

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material out far and wide, and then it gets hidden

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or sort of protected under the sheath of art. It's art,

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don't you understand? It's art, But it really to me

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just looks like, yeah, there's artists involved, but it's it's

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a commercial enterprise to taking advantage of a new technology,

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and then the computer and then the social media and

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here we are down the road.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the artists are kind of like products, uh

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and they do, you know, sell what's on.

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Speaker 2: My bed, but but they hide behind it. Oh, something's

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in your bed and somebody says something on there, so

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so I don't know, I don't see.

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Speaker 1: It out on the bed. It's a dead body back there,

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so I guess.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's uh we'll put you on the Travel

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channel as some sort of phantom flying around. I can't

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quite see it. Oh good, all right? Uh and and

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but I I really think they they use art as

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a as a veil to do whatever they want to do.

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So you can't you can't. You know, it's it's it's

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I'm creating art. It's pretty art. You can't criticize it,

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all right, you don't understand. No, they're creating a commercial enterprise.

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But let me go back to Juice More Loop because

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I I, and I'm sure you're aware of there's a

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there's a elaborate sort of cartoon online that goes through

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all of Juice More Lou's theories. Right, you've seen that?

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Have you seen that?

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Speaker 3: No, it's very good, it's very good. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, well, there's somebody that did a whole sort

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of it's not really juicemr Loo for dummies, but it

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is sort of that, and it has a whole visual

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attached to it if somebody sort of sketching things out

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as his theories are presented. It's very good. It's very good.

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I recommend it. Just look up go to YouTube, look

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up Juice mor Loop. But it sent me I guess

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I was. I already had read Extraordinary Popular Delusions and

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the Madness of Crowds. It sent me back to read

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Lebon's The Crowd again, and then I got downstream to

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a book called The True Believer, which I find is

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one of the most fascinating because I think, I think

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you'll agree with me that these mass formations or whatever

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you want to call them, have about ten or twenty

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percent of the crowd that is true believer. They're they're

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really bought into this stuff, and they're the ones that

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propagate some of these things. And this I think the

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guy was like a it's like an engineer or something.

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He was not trained in psychology, was not trained in anything.

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He just wrote down his observations of the behavior of crowds.

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And man, I think he just nails The True Believer.

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He just nails it and nails it and nails it.

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I recommend it most highly. I've read it like three

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times now. But what are your thoughts on this this

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construct and why is it coming up again? And you know,

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why did why did the left grab on to it

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so hard? Since the Jacobins give me your thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that it's been perfected from the vantage

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point of social engineering and you know, steering and controlling

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the crowd. And this is again what Walter Lippmann wrote

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about when he talked about public opinion.

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Speaker 3: Coming out of the Tavistock Institute.

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Speaker 1: He figured out that you could really steer the masses

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by giving them the impression that, well, if you're not

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in with the end group with the high percentage of well,

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the majority of the public supports the war, you don't

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want to be seen as an outsider. So they were

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really figuring this stuff out back in the nineteen twenties,

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and then they perfected that technique with what we have today.

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And of course, you know, after the koof as I

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call it, from twenty to twenty to twenty twenty two,

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they were using, as Harvard admitted, Harvard style psychological warfare techniques.

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The Canadian government admitted they were using psyops to really

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get everybody on board with the mass formation psychosis. So

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I think that they've applied these techniques to the way

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that a listers and celebrities had that type of power,

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you know, decades ago, and now it's the influencer. Now

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it's the you know, the social media person that's taking

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that role on and I think we've seen a lot

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of phony, fake you know, the social media people that

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push whatever the establishment wants. Sometimes these people are boosting

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in the algorithm. So that's where we are now. Is

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just the new instantiation of the same tricks and tactics.

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Speaker 2: What's the antidote? What do we have to do here?

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I feel like raising awareness of it, calling it out,

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mocking it work small is better than anything. What do

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we do comedy or into comedy now? Maybe maybe more imitations,

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more and more impersonations. We just a love life?

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Speaker 4: Is this Doctor Drew and the love line just probably

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the best, probably the best love line on right now.

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We're going to make sex great again, Doctor Drew, You

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and I together probably going to make it great probably.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think ridicule is a really powerful tool

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for mocking these types of things.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you go back to.

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Speaker 1: Ten years ago, one of the reasons that they really

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had to institute a lot of the censorship online was

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that the left was becoming so sensitive when when they

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were being made fun of that they just had to

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shut down memes, They had to shut down anything that

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was perceived as mocking them because it's quote hurtful. Of course,

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again that's very subjective in terms of what's hurtful in

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regard to free speech, and there's already laws in place

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for that, so they had to really I think clamp down.

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Speaker 3: We saw that as well with the COVID mandates and

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doctor doctor Fauci. It's all gunstantly getting. You know, could

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take to I am sayad sayatzayats.

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Speaker 1: And then everybody just made fun of Fauci. There was

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a remember when they said that he was the sexiest

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man alive.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's like what he's like Actually, they.

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Speaker 1: Were putting out a poll He's the sexiest man alive,

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and it's like people just made fun of this, and uh,

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I think that was a huge, you know, blow to

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the system. And so that was also why they needed

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the you know, Twitter files collusion between government and in

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big tech to shut this stuff down because they know

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the comedians are the tip of the spear when it

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comes to moving the Overton window back towards rationality.

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Speaker 2: Well, they were absent during COVID. That was that was

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one of the things I kept saying. If you're looking

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at old the streams around, I was like, where are

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the comedians. What happened here? Corolla never sin Yeah, I know.

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I Corolla kept saying, you're a bunch of postings, You're

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a bunch of shoot what are you doing? If we stopped,

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we stop following you, this thing would end tomorrow. Uh.

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And he's been the same ever since and was the

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same before, trust me. But it's very interesting, and we

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live in a time where we have to, you know,

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because persuasion works, even when you know somebody is hypnotizing

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you or persuading you or brainwashing you. We have to

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come up with techniques to kind of, you know, tie

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ourselves to the mast. We literally have to tie ourselves

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to the mast, and we have to tie a bunch

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of people there with us so we are not taken

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by the sirens song. And I agree, I think mockery

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is one of the antidotes, but we got to come

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up with a bunch of others.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think just presenting you know, logical refutations

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and critiques, which is something.

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Speaker 3: That we're big on on my channel.

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Speaker 1: You know, we do a lot of debate, reviews, do

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a lot of analysis, and that has a lot of effect.

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I think it's very powerful with people who haven't lost

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their mind, who are still rational, who are still sensible.

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So we really push learning basic logical fallacies to recognize

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when you're being propagandized, when the left is giving you

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bad arguments.

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Speaker 2: It's great if we can just get that seventy percent

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in the middle. There up up to speed to be amazing. Well, listen,

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I appreciate what you're doing. I love talking with you.

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I know dubtas talk to you again. At some point

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I am immediately subscribing to your YouTube channel because this

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stuff all fascinates me. That's a at, Jay Dyer. Is

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there somewhere else?

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Speaker 1: I go for the YouTube Now, that's my YouTube and

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then you can find me in the same name everywhere else.

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Speaker 2: Is it out as a pod also, not that really

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matters anymore.

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Speaker 1: It is. It's on iTunes in terms of podcasts, but

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if you want to get the book, it's on my

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website Jasonalysis dot com.

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Speaker 2: Great, Jay, thank you for joining me us. Talk to

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you soon.

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Speaker 3: Thank you absolutely