WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.680 Hello everybody, ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, comrades and friends. 2 00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:07.240 We're back with another special episode of History Impossible, another 3 00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:11.800 audio based adaptation of something that I actually wrote for 4 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:17.359 my friend and past guest on History Impossible, the amazing 5 00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:22.600 journalist David Joseph Walatsko on his publication The Radicalist, where 6 00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:27.280 I made a debut appearance with my essay that is 7 00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:33.640 currently titled Trump Isn't Fascist, He's Progressive. This essay ties 8 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:36.439 in pretty well to what I'm looking to put out 9 00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:39.560 for the next couple of special episodes of History Impossible. 10 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:44.399 While you guys all patiently wait for the next installment 11 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:48.600 in the Muslim Nazi series, which is coming, I'm making 12 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:51.039 good progress on it, even in the midst of all 13 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:55.159 this work I'm doing for school, and yeah, I will 14 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:58.200 keep you guys posted on that for sure. Before we 15 00:00:58.200 --> 00:00:59.880 get going on this, I want to thank everybody who's 16 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:04.040 so ports this show over on Patreon or on substack. 17 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:07.239 So if you head to Patreon dot com, slash History 18 00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:11.519 Impossible Orhistory Impossible dot substack dot com and become a 19 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:14.319 supporter today, I would be eternally grateful, like I am 20 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:19.200 to my longtime executive producer level supporters John Andre Saither 21 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:22.920 and Mike Malebin. I really appreciate all the support that 22 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:26.040 you guys can give me, so please consider doing so 23 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:28.159 if you have a couple extra books you want to 24 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:34.000 throw my way. Anyway, let's get into some impossible history. 25 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:36.680 Well, let me to tell you what you would have 26 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:39.680 seen and heard. If will not be pleasant listening, if 27 00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:41.640 you're at lunch, or if you have no appetite, now 28 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:43.200 it is a good time to switch off the radio. 29 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:52.400 An ancestor of mine maintain that if you eliminate the impossible, 30 00:01:52.560 --> 00:02:03.359 whatever remains, however improbable. I want to know what that nievespy. 31 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:08.039 I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace 32 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:11.280 is inside. I don't feel the alocking dream. 33 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:13.120 I feel anting night now. 34 00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:17.599 I a. 35 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:21.680 I we hear for sue to guilt if we share, 36 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:22.599 for sued to guill. 37 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:26.039 Some say the world will end empire. 38 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:29.479 Some say a nie from what I've tasted of desire, 39 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:32.639 I hold those of favor fire. But if it had 40 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:35.919 to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate 41 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:39.280 to say that the destruction ice is also great, and 42 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:40.199 what sufficed? 43 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:49.120 This is history or possible? 44 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:58.520 If there was a moment in which it became clear 45 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:02.360 that an apt historical and analogy could be made regarding 46 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:05.599 President Trump in his second term. It was at his 47 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:10.800 inauguration speech on January twentieth when he said the following quote, 48 00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:12.400 we are going to be changing the name of the 49 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:15.039 Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America, and we 50 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:18.280 will restore the name of a great president, William McKinley 51 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:21.680 to Mount McKinley, where it should be and where it belongs. 52 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:25.840 President McKinley made our country very rich through tariffs and 53 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:29.039 through talent. He was a natural businessman and gave Teddy 54 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.439 Roosevelt the money for many of the great things he did, 55 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:35.000 including the Panama Canal, which has foolishly been given to 56 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:37.599 the country of Panama after the United States, I mean, 57 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:40.520 think of this, spent more money than ever spent on 58 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.319 a project before, and lost thirty eight thousand lives in 59 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.159 the building of the Panama Canal. We have been treated 60 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:49.080 very badly from this foolish gift that should have never 61 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:55.719 been made, and Panama's promise to us has been broken unquote. 62 00:03:56.360 --> 00:04:01.080 There's obviously plenty to respond to in that speech that 63 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:04.120 many historians are probably scratching their heads over. But the 64 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:07.080 main thing to focus on, at least that I focused 65 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:11.400 on the re christening of Mount McKinley, plus the praise 66 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:14.599 of its namesake as well as his successor, does not 67 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:19.040 align with the usual comparisons made between Trump and certain 68 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:24.560 ideological figures. Now, these comparisons, as probably all of you 69 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:28.120 listening are aware and remember, ranged from the absurd and 70 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:34.240 hyperbolic like Adolph Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Francisco Franco, to the 71 00:04:34.279 --> 00:04:38.439 more reasonable such as Andrew Jackson. As Eli Lake explained 72 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:40.800 on his show Breaking History, I Believe in its first 73 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:45.720 episode highly recommend by the way, guys. Back in twenty sixteen, 74 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:49.279 the historian Neil Ferguson made a compelling case for defining 75 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:52.879 Trump not just in terms of populism, but in terms 76 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:55.480 of the populist backlash that was occurring at the time 77 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:58.680 of the first selection in which he won, Comparing him, 78 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:01.800 as I also did on my very first episode of 79 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:06.480 History Impossible, to the Irish American populist firebrand Dennis Kearney 80 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:09.439 of the eighteen seventies. You guys might remember that I 81 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:11.399 did call it the original Donald Trump, and I won't 82 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:14.319 pretend it was just my idea. I did definitely lift 83 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:17.680 that from Ferguson, but gave credit where it was due. 84 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:22.800 Of course. The thing is, with the handover of power 85 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:26.360 from the Biden administration to the new Trump administration and 86 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:31.439 this new administration's ever sharpening ideology, things seemed to have 87 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:36.839 noticeably changed. We now see in Trump's second term a 88 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:41.480 very different shape than the crude populism that has defined 89 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:46.199 his political life for the past decade. The populist rhetoric 90 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:51.399 is still there, and Elon Musk's antics as the scheming 91 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:54.639 foreign born royal advisor, for lack of a better comparison, 92 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:58.920 those seemed to be rooted in a quasi libertarian milieu 93 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:03.160 loosely borrow from Argentina' Javier Malay, though with less consistency 94 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:09.199 or seemingly principle. Now, obviously, these are still early days, 95 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:13.360 making it hard to draw firm conclusions as of April 96 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:17.839 twenty twenty five when I'm recording this, but Trump's increasingly 97 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:22.680 imperialist rhetoric, combined with the manic expansion of executive privilege, 98 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:29.399 suggests a clear, if not fully stated or articulated goal, namely, 99 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:33.800 having the courts and legislature ultimately sort out these power 100 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:38.319 struggles while the executive branch steams on ahead with its plans. 101 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:45.959 In short, Trump increasingly resembles a nineteenth century progressive, not 102 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:52.360 a fascist. The picture that emerges is not a universally 103 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:56.319 rosy one for those who understand the history of American progressivism, 104 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:58.879 which is why, as I see it, it's worth examining 105 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:02.000 that history through comparative lens, if only to help place 106 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:05.480 Trump within the proper context of American history and really 107 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:09.680 get into what he is, at least ostensibly hearkening back towards. 108 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:14.639 One of the most jarring things about Trump's second term, 109 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:18.000 and most important to what we're talking about here, has 110 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:20.040 been the interest that he and the people in his 111 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:26.279 administration have shown in legit territorial expansion. He's pushed to 112 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:29.360 retain American control over the Panama Canal, and he's even 113 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:32.399 attempted to insert the US into Greenland's push for independence 114 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:36.000 from Denmark, essentially seeking to annex the world's largest island. 115 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:40.360 And in addition, there has been a lot of brash 116 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:44.040 talk about annexing the entirety of Canada and making it 117 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:47.079 into the fifty first state quote unquote. Never mind that 118 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:49.560 Canada is more than willing to defend itself, as has 119 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:52.800 been made clear in comments made by people in this leadership. 120 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:57.639 Perhaps most disturbingly, Trump has floated the idea of essentially 121 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:00.480 turning the ruins of the urban micro or state of 122 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:04.560 Gaza into a slice of American led commercialism. Gaza el 123 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:07.199 Lago is the sort of running joke that people have 124 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:12.920 been making. Much of This has all been met with disbelief, laughter, 125 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:17.399 and ridicule, including from yours truly, but there is something 126 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:21.120 deeply serious behind these plans and threats, at least if 127 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:25.040 we look at the historical precedence, with the possible exception 128 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:27.240 of Gaza, which is not being treated with the same 129 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:30.720 seriousness as the other examples that I just mentioned, these 130 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:34.240 strategies are all part of a broader effort to strengthen 131 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:40.000 US strategic influence, particularly over the Western Hemisphere. All the 132 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:42.720 talk involving the Panama Canal is under the pretext of 133 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:47.360 securing it against control by Chinese investments, which are certainly significant, 134 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:52.039 with Chinese ports straddling both ends of the canal itself. Now, 135 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:55.879 whether or not those ports owned by the Chinese constitute 136 00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:59.840 a threat to US national security, as Trump has claimed 137 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:04.440 it least that's another debate, But what is clear is 138 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:08.639 that securing the Panama Canal, perhaps even by force, would 139 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:11.080 place one of the most important trade routes in the 140 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:17.480 Western Hemisphere firmly under US control. The same goes for Greenland, 141 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:20.200 and in the case of Greenland, Trump's from Mark during 142 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:22.399 his address to a joint Session of Congress that the 143 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.240 US would acquire it one way or another quote unquote 144 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:29.399 takes on new significance and light of the Independence Gradualist 145 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:32.720 Party's recent victory in Greenland, the ones who want to 146 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:38.200 separate themselves from Denmark fully this move has essentially made 147 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:41.159 it more of a free agent and in theory thus 148 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:45.559 ripe for the taking. But the true significance lies in 149 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.360 Greenland's vital strategic importance for the North Atlantic, like I 150 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:51.399 just implied a moment ago, given that eighty percent of 151 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:54.360 Greenland lies within the Arctic Circle and acts as a 152 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:58.879 defensive hub for vital shipping lanes. Additionally, Greenland is home 153 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:01.320 to abundant rare earth mad minerals that are crucial for 154 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:07.120 modern technology such as smartphones and green energy batteries. Despite 155 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:09.600 the people of Greenland showing little interest in joining the 156 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:14.080 US and instead opting for true independence the world's largest island. 157 00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:16.879 To call it that again is that you can't understate 158 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:20.039 the significance of that would be a boon for any 159 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:24.919 nation seeking to control it. Finally, when it comes to Canada, 160 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:28.840 this plan to annex it, on the face of it 161 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:34.120 is probably the most outlandish and nakedly expansionists of them all. However, 162 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:40.000 beyond sheer imperialism, there are other justifications being floated. According 163 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:42.600 to Trump, one major motivation is to curb the two 164 00:10:42.679 --> 00:10:46.639 hundred billion dollars that the US pays Canada annually. And Furthermore, 165 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:49.679 former Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has acknowledged that the Trump 166 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:53.919 administration is very aware his words of Canada's natural resources 167 00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:59.080 and has expressed interest in controlling them. The talk surrounding 168 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:03.039 border security in the context of fentanyl trafficking and illegal 169 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:07.320 immigration cannot be discounted either, though tariffs which have taken 170 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:09.720 on a new meeting since I started working on this 171 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:13.399 recording version, given our so called liberation Day, that's just happened. 172 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:16.159 But those tariffs seem to be the methodology that the 173 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:20.120 administration is taking in regard to stopping fentanyl trafficking. And 174 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:23.399 so forth, at least to incentivize the Canadian government to 175 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:27.840 do more to stop it. I guess the point being 176 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:32.279 obtaining a vast territory like Canada, with its innumerable resources, 177 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:35.720 would essentially cut out the middleman in the thinking of 178 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:41.360 the administration. Despite well, the existence of NAFTA until twenty twenty, 179 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:44.759 you know, the thing that guaranteed free trade between Mexico, 180 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:49.320 the United States and Canada. Now, all this amounts to 181 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:51.919 something very familiar to those who have studied American history 182 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:55.519 during the progressive era, when the nation was busy developing 183 00:11:55.559 --> 00:12:00.399 and strengthening the sphere of influence as a matter of policy, 184 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:03.039 I want to give a quick note in terminology. I mean, 185 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:06.440 we've discussed progressivism in its various forms on this podcast, 186 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:09.519 especially with the help of the friend C. J. Kilmer 187 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:13.200 of the Dangerous History podcast, but it's worth getting into 188 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:15.799 just a little bit here. It may be difficult for 189 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:20.600 some to appreciate this similarity between the progressive era and 190 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.840 today because the word progressivism has long been associated with 191 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.519 those on the left side of the political ledger. However, 192 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:33.000 the progressive vision in the United States has hardly ever 193 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:36.360 been unified, except in terms of core principles of so 194 00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:41.720 called social progress. The differences have largely stemmed from ancillary 195 00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:45.519 political concerns. For example, the George W. Bush administration was 196 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:51.480 defined ostensibly by evangelical Christianity, whereas the Obama administration leaned 197 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:59.840 into technocratic expertise. But the ideological split within the progressive 198 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:03.960 way worldview has deep historical roots. That first manifested very 199 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:08.279 clearly in nineteen twelve between Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt, 200 00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:11.480 with Poor William Howard Taft and Eugene Debs caught in 201 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:17.240 the middle. After that fascinating election that one could legitimately 202 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:21.399 call a four person election, the country generally embraced the 203 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:26.159 more academic and genteel Wilsonian vision of progressivism, leaving the 204 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:30.840 bellicose and nationalist Rooseveltian brand of progressivism behind. That is, 205 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:36.720 in my view, until now. The second Trump administration has 206 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:39.519 very clearly aligned itself with the legacy of Roosevelt, as 207 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:43.600 we heard, but also again as we heard, Trump made 208 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:46.960 himself very clear in this in his inauguration speech, with 209 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:52.279 that of President William McKinley. Other commentators have made similar observations. 210 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:57.480 I'm not pretending to be unique in this regard. For example, 211 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:01.120 writing for Unheard, Michael Linde argued that Trump is governing 212 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:03.960 quote in a tradition of realist presidents going back to 213 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:07.679 Theodore Roosevelt more than a century ago, who have viewed 214 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:10.639 world politics as a great power club rather than an 215 00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:16.559 arena for idealism unquote. Lin's overall point about moral consistency 216 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:20.039 is certainly debatable, but he is not alone in recognizing 217 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:25.000 this shift. An American conservative Ted Snyder argues that Trump's 218 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:29.799 hero worship of McKinley and Roosevelt represents something unpleasant to imagine, because, 219 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:32.919 as the article's subheading points out, quote, his heroes were 220 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:38.480 war bonkers unquote. So clearly, Trump's attempt to rebrand himself 221 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:42.440 within this historical lineage has not been well received by 222 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:46.360 those with we could say anti imperialist perspectives, if we 223 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:50.639 want to put it as broadly as possible. Now. In 224 00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:54.080 my view, this concern is for good reason. Very few 225 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.559 US presidents have been more imperialist than the progressives who 226 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:01.440 ruled between eighteen ninety six and nineteen twenty. I mean, 227 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:07.399 under McKinley alone, the US acquired the following Hawaii, Guam, Cuba, 228 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:11.240 Puerto Rico and the Philippines as part of the famously 229 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:14.320 lopsided Spanish American War of eighteen ninety eight. And this 230 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:16.720 is to say nothing of US involvement in the Boxer 231 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:19.960 Rebellion in China nineteen hundred, what I like to call 232 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.320 the first global war of the twentieth century. McKinley justified 233 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:27.879 these acquisitions under quote the law of belligerent right over 234 00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:32.600 conquered territory unquote. The conquest of the Philippines then turned 235 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:36.440 into what many people have compared to the Vietnam War 236 00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:38.440 in the nineteen sixties or the Iraq War in the 237 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:41.799 two thousands, something known as the Philippine American War of 238 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:44.480 eighteen ninety nine to nineteen oh two, and that was 239 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:48.000 the most infamous of all the conflicts that occurred. It 240 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:50.759 erupted when Spain seeded control of the Philippines and the 241 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:56.200 US quickly annexed the islands instead of granted independence. Ultimately, 242 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:59.399 over forty two hundred American soldiers and more than twenty 243 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:03.600 thousand five Lapino combatants perished. This was something that Dan 244 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:07.279 Carlin talked about in my opinion underrated episode in the 245 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:10.919 hardcore History catalog called American Peril a number of years ago. 246 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:12.799 I think it's actually been over ten years. It's a 247 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:14.720 very good one, and I recommend people go back and 248 00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:17.559 listen to it, or check out my friend Danielle Blelli's 249 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.840 podcast about Teddy Roosevelt in general to get a good, 250 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:23.919 decent idea of the kind of war that was being 251 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:27.279 fought over there, and the ideology that spawned it, and 252 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:32.480 the personalities and so forth. Anyway, the justifications for the 253 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:36.919 annexation of the Philippines were legion at the time, ranging 254 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:41.039 from strategic concerns to just outright racism, with some arguing 255 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:46.360 that Filipinos were just not frankly fit to govern themselves, 256 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:49.159 or that they were not sufficiently Christianized in order to 257 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:53.440 do so. But the thing is, ultimately this was all 258 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:57.679 about expanding the American sphere of influence. That's it. Because 259 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.080 at the dawn of the twentieth century that sphere of 260 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:03.360 influence paled in comparison to the empires of Europe, and 261 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:05.359 the United States had a bit of what Freud called 262 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:11.599 penis envy at that point, if you'll pardon the crude analogy. Now, 263 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.680 this imperial impulse was shared by McKinley's vice president and 264 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:20.559 successor Theodore Roosevelt, who further expanded US interventionism after McKinley 265 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:24.599 was assassinated when the Polish born anarchist Leon soul Goes 266 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:29.599 shot him in the stomach. Roosevelt's Big Stick diplomacy, as 267 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:31.880 it has come to be known, and which has clearly 268 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:35.599 influenced the forty seventh president, involved creating what became the 269 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:39.599 Panama Canal Zone after taking it from Columbia nineteen oh one, 270 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:43.440 reasserting control over Cuba despite its nineteen oh two independence, 271 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.000 and turning the US into a police power quote unquote 272 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:50.880 of the Caribbean Sea with the nineteen oh four Roosevelt 273 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:56.680 Corollary to what was then simply the Monroe Doctrine. The 274 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:00.680 corollary justified US intervention in Latin America by arguing that 275 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:05.400 quote chronic wrongdoing may in America as elsewhere, ultimately require 276 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:12.559 intervention by some civilized nation unquote. This doctrine laid the 277 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:16.480 foundation for further military occupations, such as the US Marine 278 00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:19.759 intervention in the Dominican Republic in nineteen oh five, and 279 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:23.079 it also set the stage for the next major progressive president, 280 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:29.000 Woodrow Wilson, to continue to expand American interventionism. One thing 281 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.039 that's important to remember is that despite the split between 282 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:37.440 the visions of progressivism, the genteel academic version of Wilsonianism 283 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:41.480 and a more muscular version of Rooseveltianism I guess we 284 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:44.440 could call it, does not have one preclude the other 285 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:49.680 of acting like imperialists. The impression I have is that 286 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:55.200 progressivism of all kinds has an imperialist, expansionist streak. We'll 287 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:57.480 be getting into that a little bit more later, but 288 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:00.680 it's important to remember that in the modern day versions. 289 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:00.799 Of this. 290 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.519 People were quick to point out and still are, and 291 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:10.240 for good reason, that even though President Obama essentially ended 292 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:13.640 the Iraq War, it's not like he suddenly pulled back 293 00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:18.079 American forces from all other conflicts that were ongoing overseas. 294 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:22.920 This is just to say that the norms created within 295 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:28.599 the capital p progressive context don't really know loyalty to 296 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:33.799 particular political parties. This is important to point out because 297 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:39.119 you see this already happen with history, Wilson's imperialism specifically 298 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:43.359 being downplayed compared to that of McKinley and Roosevelt, and 299 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:46.240 that is likely thanks to the progressive split that I 300 00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:50.000 was talking about as well as Wilson's greater association with 301 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:52.200 the First World War breaking out just over a year 302 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:54.880 and a half after he took office in nineteen thirteen. 303 00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:58.359 World War One has to suck the oxygen out of 304 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:02.039 the room, and for understandable reasons, but that doesn't make 305 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:04.680 the other things that happened under Wilson's watch, or at 306 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:09.759 under his orders suddenly not matter. Because Wilson was no 307 00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:14.079 stranger to foreign intervention in occupation, particularly in Latin America, 308 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:18.000 where Roosevelt's corollary provided broad justification for it to just 309 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:23.640 keep going. During his presidency, Wilson so called Banana Wars, 310 00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:27.079 which we will be talking about in a future episode 311 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:30.759 if history impossible, coming hopefully pretty soon. They raged south 312 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:35.240 of the border, caused by interventions in Mexico, Haiti, Nicaragua, 313 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:40.960 and Panama. Justification for American involvement in Latin America and 314 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:44.799 in the Caribbean aligned with Wilson's views on the importance 315 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:47.960 of what he called pan Americanism, which he believed would 316 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:51.559 create a quote unquote progressive order and that would prevent 317 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:55.240 a quote unquote state of uncontrollable chaos. In the words 318 00:20:55.240 --> 00:21:00.759 of historian Lloyd e ambrosious. As with the or Roosevelt's 319 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:05.599 own expansionist actions, there were high minded justifications, but it 320 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:08.440 is clear that this had to do with securing the 321 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:13.039 US sphere of interest. Yet again, as historian Ivan Mussakant 322 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:17.720 has written, Roosevelt's motives lay largely in quote cementing America's 323 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:22.880 newfound role as quadrispheric constable, in which quote the United 324 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:27.000 States could militarily and utilaterally intervene in any regional state 325 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:31.440 where the political, economic, or social conditions invited a European 326 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:38.160 protective response in force. Or, as Theodore Roosevelt himself said 327 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:40.799 in a speech delivered in Cincinnati in the year nineteen 328 00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:45.400 oh nine, quote expansion is not only the handmade of greatness, 329 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:49.599 but above all, it is the handmade of peace. Every 330 00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:52.720 expansion of a civilized power is a conquest for peace. 331 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.200 It means not only the extension of American influence and power. 332 00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:58.880 It means the extension of liberty and order, and the 333 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:02.599 bringing nearer by gigantic strides of the day when peace 334 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:10.559 shall come to the whole earth. This belief that American 335 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:14.359 expansionism was a force for stability and global order provided 336 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:18.880 the intellectual foundation for US interventions throughout the early twentieth century, 337 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:23.440 driving American foreign policy and reinforcing the Rooseveltian approach to 338 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:26.960 empire building, even as Wilson's style himself as a more 339 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:33.160 idealistic and principled leader. The parallels between Trump and nineteenth 340 00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:37.160 century progressive presidents are striking, to say the least. However, 341 00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:39.799 the closer one looks, the more obvious it becomes that 342 00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:43.720 not everything aligns perfectly between them. I'll be the first 343 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:47.000 to admit that now. This, of course, has more to 344 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:50.440 do with the fact that the world, especially the United States, 345 00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:54.000 has significantly changed in the last one hundred twenty five years. 346 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:58.880 While the second Trump administration seems animated by the Rooseveltian 347 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:02.839 progressive spirit when it comes to geopolitics, this has not 348 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:08.039 always been the case. Trump's first term from twenty seventeen 349 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:11.119 to twenty twenty one was more animated by an energy 350 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:18.599 of crude nativist populism that largely rejected global expansionism. After all, 351 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:21.640 this was the only Republican nominee in twenty fifteen that 352 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:25.759 broke ranks and openly denounced the Iraq War, despite also 353 00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:28.160 falsely claiming that he had always been against it, which 354 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:31.119 is just not true. Back in two thousand and two, 355 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:33.720 when he was on the Howard Stern Show, Trump had 356 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:39.720 literally said that he was in favor of invading Iraq. Regardless, 357 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.960 the road to this seeming about face reveals not a 358 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:48.000 contradiction so much as as I see it at least 359 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:55.119 a logical conclusion. Woodrow Wilson, despite resuscitating and maintaining the 360 00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:59.079 tradition of McKinley and Roosevelt's militarism in Latin America and Caribbean, 361 00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:03.480 often spoken idealistic terms, especially in nineteen seventeen, when he 362 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:06.599 pled for congressional approval to send American men into the 363 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:09.839 fray of the First World War under the pretense now 364 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:13.720 made famous of quote making the world safe for democracy unquote. 365 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.680 This was certainly sincere on Wilson's part, driven by his 366 00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:23.920 legit messionic complex. This is something that the aforementioned friend 367 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:25.559 of the Show and of Mind, C. J. Kilmer, has 368 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:28.519 talked about on his series about Woodrow Wilson. I think 369 00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:33.119 most pointedly made clear when Wilson himself said to Democratic 370 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:36.079 Party leaders when they approached him after his election, who 371 00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:40.279 were expecting to get these nice, cushy appointments these jobs 372 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:43.000 in his administration for helping put him in the office. 373 00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:45.640 Wilson looked them dead in the eye and said, and 374 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:48.559 I quote, I wish it to be clearly understood that 375 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:51.960 I owe you nothing. Remember that God ordained that I 376 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:54.920 should be the next president of the United States. Neither 377 00:24:55.039 --> 00:25:02.200 you or any other mortal could have prevented that, unquote. 378 00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:06.200 So we clearly have a much different way of looking 379 00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:09.400 at things, I think than really anyone other than from 380 00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:13.640 what I can tell George W. Bush and his decree 381 00:25:13.720 --> 00:25:17.240 that God wanted him to aus Saddam Hussein from power. 382 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:23.359 But unlike Wilson, and unlike George W. Bush, the McKinley 383 00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:28.319 and Roosevelt administrations were more animated by a school of 384 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:33.079 thought that today is known as realism, concerning themselves with 385 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:38.599 what I see as largely deterministic, supposedly rational interpretations of 386 00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:42.559 geopolitical forces that must be harnessed rather than defied in 387 00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:48.000 the name of ideals. Now, similar to McKinley and Roosevelt, 388 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.000 Trump sees the projection of American power not in terms 389 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:55.359 of the Wilsonian notion of spreading American values, as like 390 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:58.519 I was hinting at figures like Bush Junior, Obama and 391 00:25:58.599 --> 00:26:03.319 Biden believed, but rather he and his administration see the 392 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.319 projection of American power in terms of securing interests and influence. 393 00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:12.200 This is a function of the worldview that has crystallized, 394 00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:15.680 particularly but by no means exclusively, on the American right 395 00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:19.759 during the last fifteen years, neatly aligning with what we 396 00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:27.200 could call maga populism. In twenty eleven, CNN commentator and 397 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:30.200 writer for Read Zakaria released a second edition of his 398 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.960 landmark two thousand and eight book The Post American World, 399 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:36.160 updated to reflect the tumultuous events that were occurring as 400 00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:40.160 the first edition was being published. At the time of 401 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:43.039