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<v Speaker 1>Host you are now listening to True Murder, the most

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<v Speaker 1>shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that

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<v Speaker 1>have written about them. Geesy Bundy Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK.

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<v Speaker 1>Every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking

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<v Speaker 1>and infamous killers in true crime history, True Murder with

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<v Speaker 1>your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening, This

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<v Speaker 1>is your host Dan Zepanski for the program True Murder,

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<v Speaker 1>the most shocking killers in true crime history and the

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<v Speaker 1>authors that have written about them. It was a night

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<v Speaker 1>of celebration for the Whitaker family. Their son Bart was

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<v Speaker 1>graduating from college, but when Bart's brother Kevin opened his

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<v Speaker 1>door to their house, a massd intruder shot him point blank.

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<v Speaker 1>His mother took the next bullet, followed by mister Whittaker

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<v Speaker 1>and Bart. Blood was everywhere, but somehow Bart and his

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<v Speaker 1>family survived. His father survived. To the cops, the story

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<v Speaker 1>didn't add up, however, and their investigation discovered a stunning

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<v Speaker 1>web of lies. Bart was living a double life. He

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<v Speaker 1>hadn't been enrolled in college since his freshman year. Instead

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<v Speaker 1>of attending classes, he'd spent his days playing video games

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<v Speaker 1>with his friends while planning to murder his family to

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<v Speaker 1>inherit a million dollar estate. Savage Son takes us inside

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<v Speaker 1>this chilling murder case to reveal the twisted motives of

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<v Speaker 1>a seemingly all American boy next door who turned into

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<v Speaker 1>a cold blood a killer now residing on death row.

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<v Speaker 1>My special guest this evening is author Corey Mitchell. Thank

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<v Speaker 1>you very much for a green to his interview, and

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to the program, Corey Mitchell, and how.

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<v Speaker 2>You doing, sir. I appreciate you having me on.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, thank you very much for a green in his interview.

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<v Speaker 6>It's of great pleasure for us and for me and

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<v Speaker 6>the audience to have you on a program tonight.

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<v Speaker 2>So hey, I'm looking forward to talking to you about

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<v Speaker 2>this book and learning more about you and what you're doing.

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<v Speaker 2>And you're a true crime writing as well.

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<v Speaker 6>Oh well, thanks very much for that. Let's get down

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<v Speaker 6>to this savage murder. Of all the murder cases you

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<v Speaker 6>could have chosen, and there's so many interesting cases, why

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<v Speaker 6>did you decide to write about this particular case.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been writing a lot of books about serial killers

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<v Speaker 2>and big mass murders in Texas, and I needed to

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<v Speaker 2>change a pace. I'm completely fascinated by serial killers, but

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<v Speaker 2>I just wanted something a little bit different. I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>something that involved, just like your introduction said that all

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<v Speaker 2>American boy, you know, how does the all American kid

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<v Speaker 2>who seemingly went down the similar path in life that

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<v Speaker 2>I went down. As a matter of fact, I even

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<v Speaker 2>grew up about twenty minutes away for murders occurred. I

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<v Speaker 2>grew up in Parland, and this is in sugar Land,

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, Bart Whittaker was raised in a family

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<v Speaker 2>almost like I was raised in, in a town almost

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<v Speaker 2>like I was raised in, And so that alone made

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<v Speaker 2>me curious want to know more about this guy who

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<v Speaker 2>had everything handed to him on a silver platter, yet

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<v Speaker 2>he still just was not satisfied with everything he was

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<v Speaker 2>given and decided to resort to not only murder, but

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<v Speaker 2>murder of his entire family, his loved ones, people that

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<v Speaker 2>really adored him and gave him everything that he wanted.

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<v Speaker 2>To me, that that was just very fascinating. It's very

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<v Speaker 2>different than the mindset of a serial killer. So I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to dig deeper into that. And of course, like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, the fact that it was so close to

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<v Speaker 2>where I grew up always makes it interesting to learn

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<v Speaker 2>about the things that happened around you, And when you're

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<v Speaker 2>familiar with the surroundings, it just makes it that much

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<v Speaker 2>more interesting and bizarre to find out about it. So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that was the number one one reason on that, And

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<v Speaker 2>then the second one was that this is a much

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<v Speaker 2>more high profile case than what I usually take on.

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<v Speaker 2>I tend to take on cases that they go under

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<v Speaker 2>the radar. I mean, Coral Eugene Wants in my book

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<v Speaker 2>Evil Eyes, even though he's probably the most prolific serial

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<v Speaker 2>killer in the history of the United States, most people

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<v Speaker 2>were not even aware of him. So I wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>really dig in and expose you know, Coral Wants and

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<v Speaker 2>let everybody know about him. But this one is just

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<v Speaker 2>a little different. It actually had been covered on forty

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<v Speaker 2>eight Hours first and had an hour long special in

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<v Speaker 2>the case. I found a very fascinating watch in that case.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd followed the case in the news before it aired

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<v Speaker 2>on forty eight Hours, so I was already aware of it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just thought, you know, I wanted to try

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<v Speaker 2>something a little bit different, something a little bit more

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<v Speaker 2>high profile, just to see, you know, something that's not

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<v Speaker 2>completely saturating in the airways though, like you know, Casey

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<v Speaker 2>Anthony case or Holloway case, those those just hold no

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<v Speaker 2>interest to me at all. You know, those cases just

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<v Speaker 2>get overdone, overblown, overanalyzed, over talking headed by the so

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<v Speaker 2>called experts out there, but this one just had enough

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<v Speaker 2>that there was just enough national interest. But it still

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<v Speaker 2>was interesting to me to be able to get that

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<v Speaker 2>story out to people. So, like I said, it's very

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<v Speaker 2>different than what I normally write, but I thoroughly enjoyed

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<v Speaker 2>the process of taking on a different type of case

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<v Speaker 2>like this and now such a bizarre case that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>how can you not be fascinated by it? Oh?

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<v Speaker 6>Absolutely it is. It is an incredible case. Now tell

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<v Speaker 6>us a little bit, go back a little bit to

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<v Speaker 6>tell us a little bit about this where this story

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<v Speaker 6>primarily takes place, and you talked about a place called Sugarland, Texas,

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<v Speaker 6>very close to Houston, Texas. And also tell us a

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<v Speaker 6>little bit more about Bart's family. You talked about they gave,

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<v Speaker 6>they doted on him. Tell us what were they a

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<v Speaker 6>wealthy family? You said they spoiled him, But were they

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<v Speaker 6>a wealthy family? Tell us a little bit more in

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<v Speaker 6>your research for this book, which you found out what

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<v Speaker 6>bart life was like with his father Kent, his mother Tricia,

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<v Speaker 6>and his brother Kevin. What was their life really like?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know sugar Land that the town is just

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<v Speaker 2>a small suburb of Houston, and what it's basically occurred

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<v Speaker 2>over time is well, first of all, it's built on

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<v Speaker 2>money from the Imperial Sugar Company. So that's where the

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<v Speaker 2>name of sugar Land comes from. Sugar Land back, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>back when I was a kid living in Parland, sugar

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<v Speaker 2>Land was you know, very small. I didn't really have

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<v Speaker 2>a whole lot going on. Then all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of the pro sports athletes from Houston started

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<v Speaker 2>to move out there, Like Achemolage one I believe, had

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<v Speaker 2>a house out there. A lot of the Houston astros

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<v Speaker 2>had moved out there back then, the Houston Oilers and

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<v Speaker 2>then now they're known as the Houston Texans. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of these guys with a lot of money

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<v Speaker 2>had started to move out there. And then there was

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<v Speaker 2>a certain amount of flight from the city of Houston

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<v Speaker 2>and all the crime that was occurring in Houston from people,

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<v Speaker 2>so they were moving out to sugar Land where it

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<v Speaker 2>was you know, quite you know, suburb, very very low key,

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<v Speaker 2>just not a lot of nonsense going on, not a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of criminal activity. And uh, you combine that that

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<v Speaker 2>quiet Cottagy feeling, neighborhoods feel along with this extra amount

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<v Speaker 2>of money coming in, and that's kind of the direction

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<v Speaker 2>the sugar landtern, which was more money was coming into

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<v Speaker 2>the town, and subsequently that it became a very affluent

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<v Speaker 2>suburb of the city of Houston. And within that realm

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, nice little neighborhoods was the Whittaker family.

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<v Speaker 2>By most Sugar Lake standards, they were not super wealthy.

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<v Speaker 2>By the average American, they were very much so, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>they're they're doing extremely well. They lived in a very

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<v Speaker 2>nice home basically you know what they call mcmahonsions out here,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, basically pushing close to a million dollars

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<v Speaker 2>for which to people out in the Northeast and in California,

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't sound like a lot of money, but the

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<v Speaker 2>housing prices in Texas have always been incredibly low. So

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<v Speaker 2>a million dollar houses in Texas are probably worth about

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<v Speaker 2>three or four million in Los Angeles just.

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<v Speaker 6>To kind of comity.

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<v Speaker 2>So so yeah, they they did extremely well and really

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<v Speaker 2>not on any fancy jobs. Basically, Kent was working an

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<v Speaker 2>accounting department for his wife's husband's construction company, and then Tricia,

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<v Speaker 2>the mother, was working as a teacher at one of

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<v Speaker 2>the nearby schools, so they weren't these really outs. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't a CEO of a major company or you

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<v Speaker 2>know Mary, you know Mary kay Cosmetics, multi dollar regional

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<v Speaker 2>saleswoman or anything like that. They just have seemingly normal jobs.

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<v Speaker 2>But they did very well at their jobs. They were

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<v Speaker 2>very conservative with their money. They held tightly to it,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you know, make smart investments, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they really just put all that money into a very

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<v Speaker 2>nice home and also to as I said, doting on

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<v Speaker 2>their children, their two sons, Bart and Kevin. And by that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know Bart Whitaker when he was in college, he

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<v Speaker 2>had his full college paid for. He was given a

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred thousand dollars condominium on the lake, and he

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<v Speaker 2>had a thirty five thousand dollars SUV. So not bad

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<v Speaker 2>when you're in your early twenties and you've got everything

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<v Speaker 2>covered for you. So uh and then fight. So that's

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<v Speaker 2>financially and then emotionally as well. Now, Bart Whittaker will

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<v Speaker 2>tell you a different story. He'll tell you that his

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<v Speaker 2>father didn't really paid enough attention to him. His mother

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<v Speaker 2>paid more attention to his younger brother, Kevin, because Kevin

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<v Speaker 2>was a worse student, and therefore he needed more attention.

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<v Speaker 2>But the reality is quite the opposite. Bart really really

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<v Speaker 2>was paid attention to by his father, and his dad

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<v Speaker 2>really cared about Bart, and the two spent time training

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<v Speaker 2>on bikes together. They rode what's called the MS one.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a it's a ride for muscular or multiple score

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<v Speaker 2>roses that I've even ridden in about seven times where

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<v Speaker 2>you ride one hundred and fifty miles in their case

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<v Speaker 2>would be from Houston to Austin. So that takes a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of training on bikes. Hours and hours and hours

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<v Speaker 2>on the bikes that Kent spent with his son, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, taught him the ways that it was, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>trying to teach him ways of business, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they had sit down dinners, everything you would think in

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<v Speaker 2>a good family. And same with the mother too. She

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<v Speaker 2>Tricia really doated on Bart and really tried to give

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<v Speaker 2>as much attention to both of her boys and as

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<v Speaker 2>much love to both of her boys as well. And

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<v Speaker 2>also another aspect of the Whittaker family's religion played a

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<v Speaker 2>very very strong part in their lives, and.

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<v Speaker 6>They were a very religious family, very religious.

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<v Speaker 2>Not not over the top, but just they always made

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<v Speaker 2>sure they were at church every weekend, Kent would have

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<v Speaker 2>heard the father. His brother was actually in the ministry

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<v Speaker 2>as well, and I believe a Baptist church near the area,

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<v Speaker 2>and so it was a very important aspect of their

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<v Speaker 2>life that religion and faith was to be talked about

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<v Speaker 2>in the family and discussed and shared with friends and family,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was one of the I think that's probably

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<v Speaker 2>one of the key points for Bart is that he

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<v Speaker 2>was actually seemingly turned off by a lot of that

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<v Speaker 2>when he was younger, and I think that probably caused

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of consternation in the household, or at least

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<v Speaker 2>from his perspective, that he thought his parents were browbeating

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<v Speaker 2>him with religion. As a matter of fact, he even

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<v Speaker 2>went to Baylor University in Waco, Texas, which is known

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<v Speaker 2>as mainly a Baptist school, and a lot of the

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<v Speaker 2>students there go, you know, further into the ministry. And

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<v Speaker 2>then it also just plays a very big part of

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<v Speaker 2>that social you know, that campus life as well religion.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was another thing you talked. You mentioned earlier,

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<v Speaker 2>how Bart who somehow pulled the wool over his parents'

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<v Speaker 2>eyes all this time, you know, convincing them that he

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<v Speaker 2>was graduating from college and in reality, he didn't even

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<v Speaker 2>have enough credits to be considered a sophomore. He spent

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of his time at Baylor, where he first

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<v Speaker 2>started college, smoking pot and playing video games and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>playing Have Request with his roommates hours and hours on end,

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<v Speaker 2>and instead of going to his classes, instead of getting

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<v Speaker 2>a job to help support his income, he just basically

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<v Speaker 2>got high and played video games. And I think a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of that was because he was kind of sick

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<v Speaker 2>of all these religious hypocrites, as he called him, religious

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<v Speaker 2>hypocrite students at Baylor.

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<v Speaker 6>Right now, before we get into the you know, you've

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<v Speaker 6>got us to the point where he is fooling around

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<v Speaker 6>in school unbeknownst to his parents who are paying the

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<v Speaker 6>incredible tab and have all these great expectations for their son.

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<v Speaker 6>What was Bart Whitaker ever seen by any psychiatric or

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<v Speaker 6>mental health professionals? And did he have any legal problems

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<v Speaker 6>during his adolescence or any events where he would he

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<v Speaker 6>would seen by any again psychiatric experts or mental health professionals.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Bart started off normal kid, good kid, going to school,

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<v Speaker 2>making decent grades, and then he got into high school

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<v Speaker 2>and then he started to get bored. And what he

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<v Speaker 2>would do was convince some of his buddies that, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>we should go up to these schools of ours and

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<v Speaker 2>start robbing them and taking things out. And he was

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<v Speaker 2>really fascinated by computers, so he would convince a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of his buddies from school that we'd go in, sneak

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<v Speaker 2>into the campus, climb up on top of the roof,

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<v Speaker 2>break in through a skylight, almost like a mission, impossible mission,

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<v Speaker 2>and then lower themselves down in, go in and steal

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<v Speaker 2>as many computers as they could, and then take off,

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<v Speaker 2>and then they stored them in a storage. Shit. He

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<v Speaker 2>didn't even resell them. He didn't he didn't pawn them off,

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<v Speaker 2>and he actually didn't even really use them. It was

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<v Speaker 2>more just the thrill of going in and stealing things.

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<v Speaker 2>And to make it even more bizarre is that one

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<v Speaker 2>of the schools he stole from was the school where

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<v Speaker 2>his mother taught. They just devastated Tricia Whittaker that her son,

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<v Speaker 2>who was supposed to be this great kid and all

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<v Speaker 2>American boy, goes in to steal from her own school.

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<v Speaker 2>She was so devastated by Bart's actions that he stopped

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<v Speaker 2>shopping at the grocery store that she used to shop

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<v Speaker 2>at all the time, she stopped going to the same

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<v Speaker 2>church that she went to because she was so embarrassed

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<v Speaker 2>that she thought all of the people there would be

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<v Speaker 2>talking about what her son did. You know, the good

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<v Speaker 2>old Bart is actually a bad boy, and based on

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<v Speaker 2>the several thefts that when he got caught and was

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<v Speaker 2>got in trouble, he was sent to a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>different doctors actually for a psychiatric evaluation. And ironically, the

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<v Speaker 2>two reports couldn't have been much different from one another.

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<v Speaker 2>One report said that this guy is deranged, he is narcissistic,

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<v Speaker 2>he's over the top. He's gonna be nothing but trouble

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<v Speaker 2>for everybody involved with him. And the recommendation was that

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<v Speaker 2>this guy should not be allowed back in school. He

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00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:05.120
<v Speaker 2>should be sent to jail and locked, locked away and

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<v Speaker 2>have the key thrown away. Uh. The other report, also

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<v Speaker 2>by another doctor there in sugar Land, was the total opposite,

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00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.799
<v Speaker 2>was that Bart made a bad choice. He's a good kid. Really,

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00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.279
<v Speaker 2>you have nothing to be afraid of. And so, of

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00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:21.600
<v Speaker 2>course the parents tended to ignore the first report and

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00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:24.360
<v Speaker 2>focus more on the second and think that, oh, this

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00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:26.320
<v Speaker 2>is Bart, he's a good guy. He couldn't have really,

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't mean to do this.

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<v Speaker 5>No necessary detail lost in terms conditions eighteen plus.

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00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.000
<v Speaker 2>He's just he's trying to have some fun and it

308
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.960
<v Speaker 2>was a bad way of expressing his desire to do that.

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00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:09.440
<v Speaker 2>And that's kind of it's there in black and white.

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<v Speaker 2>It's kind of scary that one guy nailed it so perfectly,

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<v Speaker 2>that one of the doctors nailed it that you know,

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00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:19.279
<v Speaker 2>this is a basically a deranged sociopath who's going to

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00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:22.640
<v Speaker 2>end up harming himself and other people as well.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's an interesting early assessment for sure. Must have

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00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:29.519
<v Speaker 6>been some obvious signs at least to him to make

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00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:33.680
<v Speaker 6>that type of big assessment. Now you're talking about him

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00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:36.880
<v Speaker 6>being in college and he doesn't even have enough credits

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00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:40.640
<v Speaker 6>to graduate potentially. And you do talk about in the

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<v Speaker 6>book that he often talked to people around him, his friends,

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00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:51.319
<v Speaker 6>which were at a higher socioeconomic status, kids were well

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<v Speaker 6>off at least compared to a lot of a lot

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00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:56.319
<v Speaker 6>of people, not the people you would typically think of

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00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.319
<v Speaker 6>that he might discuss this sort of thing. What was

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00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:04.880
<v Speaker 6>he discussed much earlier than his graduation date. Take us

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<v Speaker 6>back into college and some of his friends, and what

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<v Speaker 6>was the kind of conversations he was having with these

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<v Speaker 6>friends in his first.

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<v Speaker 2>Year in college at Baylor. What he would do with

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<v Speaker 2>his buddies, who would instead of going to classroom, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>going to these classes, would be sitting around smoking, playing

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<v Speaker 2>video games. They would jokingly start talking about what would

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<v Speaker 2>be the best way to kill your family? And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Bart would always be the one to bring that up,

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<v Speaker 2>and he would ask one of his classmates, one of

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<v Speaker 2>his dorm mates, and say, you know, how could I

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<v Speaker 2>kill my family? How could I do this and get

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<v Speaker 2>away with it? And of course here they are, they're

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<v Speaker 2>smoking pie, they're getting drunk, they're just having fun and

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<v Speaker 2>they're just playing along with Bart. They think, oh, he's

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<v Speaker 2>just being stupid, and you know why not. So they

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<v Speaker 2>would sit around and actually dream up fantasy is about

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<v Speaker 2>how they would kill Bart's parents, and you know, for

343
00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:57.799
<v Speaker 2>the other people involved, it was just a joke and

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00:18:57.880 --> 00:18:59.759
<v Speaker 2>they just played, you know, in their minds. They were

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00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:02.480
<v Speaker 2>just along with it. And Bart was basically what he

346
00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:04.880
<v Speaker 2>was doing while he was throwing these little seeds out

347
00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:07.720
<v Speaker 2>was that he was gauging people. He was seeing, Okay,

348
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<v Speaker 2>how would these people react when I bring up such

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<v Speaker 2>a morbid topic. Are they going to be afraid of me?

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<v Speaker 2>Are they going to think that this is interesting? Are

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<v Speaker 2>they going to want to participate in something like this?

352
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<v Speaker 2>So he was actually sitting there scouting people. It's almost

353
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:24.960
<v Speaker 2>like an NBA scout, going down to the high school

354
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:28.039
<v Speaker 2>playground or the junior high school playground and seeing what

355
00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:31.400
<v Speaker 2>the talent is. And this is what Bart was basically doing,

356
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:35.200
<v Speaker 2>was figuring out who he could bring into his web

357
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<v Speaker 2>to actually help him kill his family. And this, like

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<v Speaker 2>we said, this occurred early on in his college career,

359
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<v Speaker 2>and it went on for a number of years and eventually,

360
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<v Speaker 2>like you were talking about too, Dan is that you

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<v Speaker 2>not only were the majority of these people that he

362
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<v Speaker 2>was speaking with in a higher economic stratum, but also

363
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<v Speaker 2>intelligent kids as well. Some of these kids were National

364
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<v Speaker 2>Merrider Scholarship award winners, which means they're basically the cream

365
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<v Speaker 2>and the crop. Uh you know, just highly intelligent people,

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<v Speaker 2>you know that were not going to school just a party.

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<v Speaker 2>They were going to learn about microbiology, and they were

368
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:21.599
<v Speaker 2>going to learn about nanotechnology and all these scientific based

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<v Speaker 2>education tracks.

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<v Speaker 6>Of the unlikely, unlikely candidates for this sort of thing,

371
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<v Speaker 6>for sure, meanly exactly you would think.

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<v Speaker 2>You would think it would just be somebody that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>was kind of a low life scum, would be the

374
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<v Speaker 2>person to be a triggerman and a murder and a

375
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<v Speaker 2>hit job. But these were not. These were the cream

376
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<v Speaker 2>of the crop. They were the good kids. And uh

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<v Speaker 2>Bart had the ability to find these kids and spot,

378
00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:52.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, and just I don't know, spot something there

379
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:58.000
<v Speaker 2>some some helplessness, some pain in their life. There was

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00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:01.160
<v Speaker 2>something missing in those people's lives that he was able

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00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:04.279
<v Speaker 2>to hone in on and determined that that could be

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<v Speaker 2>a guy that would actually pull a trigger and kill

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<v Speaker 2>my parents for me.

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<v Speaker 6>Now, to all the critics or not the critics, but

385
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<v Speaker 6>say a skeptic or someone that is listening right now

386
00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:16.160
<v Speaker 6>and saying, well, yeah, but this is just talk. He's

387
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:18.319
<v Speaker 6>smoking a bunch of weed, he's talking to his buddies.

388
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.680
<v Speaker 6>Obviously his buddies didn't take it very seriously, or the

389
00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:23.680
<v Speaker 6>very first time that he mentioned something like that, they

390
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:26.160
<v Speaker 6>would have went to the police and then they would

391
00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:28.319
<v Speaker 6>have wired up his friends or something like you see

392
00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:35.079
<v Speaker 6>on TV. But telling our audience, what evidence you have

393
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:40.359
<v Speaker 6>that this was not just a conversation. You know there

394
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:44.440
<v Speaker 6>are you spoke about some other plots? Well, how far

395
00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:48.000
<v Speaker 6>did he go in plotting the death other than smoking

396
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:49.240
<v Speaker 6>weed and talking with his friends.

397
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<v Speaker 2>As Bart would would instigate these conversations and engage the

398
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:59.519
<v Speaker 2>response and the reactions of his friends, he started to see, Okay,

399
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:01.680
<v Speaker 2>this guy is actually listening to what I'm saying and

400
00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:04.400
<v Speaker 2>is responding to me, and is not calling the cops

401
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:05.960
<v Speaker 2>and is not afraid of me, and it is not

402
00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:09.119
<v Speaker 2>calling me a deranged psychopath. So he would start to

403
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:13.240
<v Speaker 2>hone in further, and then the conversations would taper off

404
00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:15.160
<v Speaker 2>for a week or two, and then he'd bring it

405
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.480
<v Speaker 2>up again and they see how the reaction was and

406
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:22.119
<v Speaker 2>if they still weren't running away to the hills. After

407
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:25.200
<v Speaker 2>he brought this up, he would continue on and pursue it.

408
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.039
<v Speaker 2>And eventually, after several months of this, two of his

409
00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:34.319
<v Speaker 2>closest roommates he actually convinced that, okay, we're actually gonna

410
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:37.000
<v Speaker 2>do this. And he had just hit you know, nothing

411
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:41.039
<v Speaker 2>super dramatic. I mean, it wasn't laid out, this is

412
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:42.960
<v Speaker 2>exactly how we're gonna do it. It was just almost

413
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:46.640
<v Speaker 2>this continuation of this stoner talk. But somehow, within a

414
00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:48.839
<v Speaker 2>few months he was able to convince these people that hey,

415
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, we're actually gonna go down to sugar Land, Texas,

416
00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:54.119
<v Speaker 2>all the way from Waco, and we're gonna go and

417
00:22:54.240 --> 00:23:00.599
<v Speaker 2>kill my parents. And it actually it actually in three

418
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:04.519
<v Speaker 2>different occasions before Bart was actually successful in murdering his parents,

419
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.319
<v Speaker 2>and each time that had happened, it seemed, and I

420
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:10.759
<v Speaker 2>tell people this, there's almost a dark sense of humor

421
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:14.519
<v Speaker 2>throughout the book when Bart's actually trying these murder cases

422
00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:17.559
<v Speaker 2>or trying trying to actually commit the murders of his families.

423
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:21.319
<v Speaker 2>And as I said before, this is no disrespect intending

424
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:24.640
<v Speaker 2>towards Kevin or Trisha Whittaker or anybody involved in this

425
00:23:24.759 --> 00:23:27.720
<v Speaker 2>crime because it's not one it's not humors, but the

426
00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:33.039
<v Speaker 2>idiocy involved on Bart's side of what he was trying

427
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.160
<v Speaker 2>to do. It's almost like a bad Keystone cop movie

428
00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:40.039
<v Speaker 2>or something, just this moronic bad guy because you know,

429
00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:41.599
<v Speaker 2>one of the murder one of the times when he

430
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.000
<v Speaker 2>actually sent the guys down to murder his parents, he

431
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:47.279
<v Speaker 2>had said, Okay, you're gonna go in. You're gonna go

432
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:50.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna take my parents out to dinner. You're gonna

433
00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:53.160
<v Speaker 2>go into the house. I'm gonna turn off the alarge system.

434
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:56.640
<v Speaker 2>You're gonna raise up this window, crawl in, shut the window,

435
00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:59.720
<v Speaker 2>and wait for my family. Well, Bart had all that

436
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:02.920
<v Speaker 2>said up he actually drove down. This is about two

437
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:06.839
<v Speaker 2>or three years before the murders actually occurred. The same

438
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:09.319
<v Speaker 2>exact scenario. We came in, He took his parents out there,

439
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:13.440
<v Speaker 2>parents came his buddies. Then we're to go in sneak

440
00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:15.480
<v Speaker 2>in the house. Well, one time Bart forgets to turn

441
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:17.680
<v Speaker 2>out the alarm. So the guys are going in there

442
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:19.839
<v Speaker 2>all dressed up in black, and he goes in to

443
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:22.160
<v Speaker 2>lift up the window and the alarm system goes off.

444
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:23.880
<v Speaker 2>So they had to line up and they actually take

445
00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:27.880
<v Speaker 2>off all the way to Waco. And then about a

446
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:31.440
<v Speaker 2>year later, a totally different set of guys were involved

447
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:33.880
<v Speaker 2>in this and same situation. Bart's gonna go down to

448
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:37.680
<v Speaker 2>sugar Land. Uh, he's gonna meet the guys there. They're

449
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.519
<v Speaker 2>gonna go the same process. Well, he sets one of

450
00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:42.400
<v Speaker 2>his buddies up in a stolen car to get out

451
00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:44.119
<v Speaker 2>of town, but he forgets to fill up the tank

452
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:47.599
<v Speaker 2>of the tank with gasoline. So here they are. This

453
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:51.200
<v Speaker 2>guy's ready to drive all the way down to sugar Land.

454
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:56.119
<v Speaker 2>And he's in his car driving away and gets outside

455
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:58.880
<v Speaker 2>of Waco. And if you've ever driven from Waco down

456
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:02.119
<v Speaker 2>to sugar Land at night, there's almost no lights for

457
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:05.240
<v Speaker 2>about fifty miles. So he gets out of Waco, there's

458
00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:07.279
<v Speaker 2>no lights, there's no gas stations, there's nothing. This guy

459
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:09.799
<v Speaker 2>runs out of gas on his way down there. And

460
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:13.200
<v Speaker 2>to make matters even worse on that particular case, is

461
00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:18.440
<v Speaker 2>that one of the one of his helper's former friend,

462
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.000
<v Speaker 2>a female friend, had found out what they were gonna do,

463
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:25.599
<v Speaker 2>and she actually called the police. He's the only person

464
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:29.079
<v Speaker 2>out of all these people, there's probably about nine different

465
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:32.359
<v Speaker 2>potential murderers involved, and only one person who was a

466
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:35.599
<v Speaker 2>friend of these groups actually called the cops and said, hey,

467
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:37.440
<v Speaker 2>these guys are gonna come down and kill this family.

468
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:41.039
<v Speaker 2>And what happened was this girl had called the police

469
00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:44.440
<v Speaker 2>down in sugar Land or actually in Waco, who then

470
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:47.680
<v Speaker 2>contacted the police in sugar Land, who then contacted the

471
00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:51.839
<v Speaker 2>Whittaker family. And so here this guy, this buddy of Bart,

472
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:53.880
<v Speaker 2>is driving, He's runs out of gas, and all of

473
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:55.400
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, he's sitting there about three in the morning,

474
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.839
<v Speaker 2>he gets a phone call from Kent Whittaker, Bart, Whitaker's dad,

475
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:01.119
<v Speaker 2>and he's sitting waiting for Bart to bring him a

476
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:03.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, gas for a gas stang for his gas

477
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:05.559
<v Speaker 2>or for his vehicle, and he gets a call from

478
00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:08.319
<v Speaker 2>the guy he's about to go down and kill and

479
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.519
<v Speaker 2>Whittaker says, you know what, so are you coming down

480
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:13.000
<v Speaker 2>to kill us?

481
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:13.160
<v Speaker 6>You know?

482
00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:15.319
<v Speaker 2>Jokingly, he says, well, where are you coming down to

483
00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:17.240
<v Speaker 2>kill us? That's got to be a joke. I mean,

484
00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:20.119
<v Speaker 2>they're all laughing about it, you know, it's just a joke.

485
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:25.680
<v Speaker 2>And so, needless to say, that particular plot failed Bart,

486
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:28.200
<v Speaker 2>and in that particular instance too, Bart once he once

487
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:31.000
<v Speaker 2>his parents had found out, Bart actually took off and

488
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:33.359
<v Speaker 2>fled to Dallas and ran away for about three days.

489
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:35.960
<v Speaker 2>And so you would think that, Okay, this guy, if

490
00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:39.680
<v Speaker 2>he's innocent, he wouldn't run away, So why is he

491
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:42.559
<v Speaker 2>running away? That that would start to actually spark some

492
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:45.839
<v Speaker 2>concern by the Whitakers that maybe there's something wrong with

493
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.880
<v Speaker 2>their kids, you know, why the phone call. So that's

494
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:51.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, those two of the plots. And the third

495
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:55.000
<v Speaker 2>plot was a different scenario altogether, which is that Bart

496
00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:58.559
<v Speaker 2>was going to corral his entire family, which would be

497
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:02.599
<v Speaker 2>cousins and nieces and that use into a family lake

498
00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:05.960
<v Speaker 2>house and set the house on fire and Bart was

499
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:11.039
<v Speaker 2>going to heroically escape from the house slightly burned, but

500
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:13.279
<v Speaker 2>he would be the sole survivor that everyone else would

501
00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:15.640
<v Speaker 2>burn inside the house. And that was, you know, the

502
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:19.880
<v Speaker 2>the excuse that the prosecution used, or the motive that

503
00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:24.400
<v Speaker 2>the prosecution argued, was that Bart was doing this for money,

504
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:27.680
<v Speaker 2>that he was mainly interested in collecting life insurance from

505
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:31.440
<v Speaker 2>his mother and his father and his brother and probably

506
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:33.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, well over a million dollars. And this is

507
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:38.319
<v Speaker 2>what he was vaguely telling his cohorts that he was

508
00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:42.279
<v Speaker 2>going to give them some money. And unfortunately for him,

509
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.920
<v Speaker 2>when the actual murder took place. The mother was killed,

510
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:49.200
<v Speaker 2>as you said, the brother was killed, but can't whitaccur

511
00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:54.359
<v Speaker 2>the father was not killed. So all this whole ridiculous

512
00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:58.680
<v Speaker 2>scenarios that had Bartie created and allegedly for money, was

513
00:27:58.759 --> 00:28:00.880
<v Speaker 2>all hinging on the fact that both the parents had

514
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:04.160
<v Speaker 2>to die and that they were not successful in killing

515
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:07.839
<v Speaker 2>the father, thus meaning Bart's not going to get any money.

516
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:14.200
<v Speaker 2>So it's it's been incredible, it is. It's so bizarre too.

517
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:19.000
<v Speaker 6>No, Now, tell us Corey about the day in question.

518
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:21.200
<v Speaker 6>Tell us about the whole day. I mean, give us

519
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:24.160
<v Speaker 6>the whole background. He's about to graduate. It's a big

520
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:27.559
<v Speaker 6>you know, it's an important event. It's a big celebration.

521
00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:31.319
<v Speaker 6>Take us back to that day and everything that happens,

522
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.039
<v Speaker 6>the sequence of events place.

523
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh, and you've you've nailed it on the heads that

524
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:40.599
<v Speaker 2>this is Bart Whitaker who's convinced his parents that you know,

525
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.240
<v Speaker 2>he's actually graduating from college. And as I said earlier,

526
00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:45.720
<v Speaker 2>he did not even have enough credits to be considered

527
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:50.480
<v Speaker 2>a sophomore, much less a graduating senior in college. And Bart,

528
00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:52.400
<v Speaker 2>of course, it started at his college off at Baylor

529
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:55.279
<v Speaker 2>University in Waco. It did poorly, and so we had

530
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.720
<v Speaker 2>to transfer to sam Houston State, which is considered a

531
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:01.720
<v Speaker 2>good college, but slightly lower level as far as the

532
00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:05.279
<v Speaker 2>reputation that it has. Sure they do, however, have a

533
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:09.240
<v Speaker 2>fairly internationally renowned the criminal Justice department.

534
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:15.440
<v Speaker 6>Ironically, ironically enough so and yeah, but basically, Bart had

535
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:18.200
<v Speaker 6>told his parents, Hey, I've been going to college.

536
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:18.279
<v Speaker 4>All this time.

537
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing great. I'm graduating in four years. Uh, you know,

538
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:25.759
<v Speaker 2>I want to come down before Christmas starts and let's

539
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:28.640
<v Speaker 2>go out, you know, the night before my graduation ceremony,

540
00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:32.519
<v Speaker 2>and let's celebrate. And of course the Whitakers are just ecstatic.

541
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.319
<v Speaker 2>You know, here's their number one firstborn son. He's graduating

542
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:39.640
<v Speaker 2>from college. He had troubles in high school with the law,

543
00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:41.839
<v Speaker 2>but he you know, he's worked through all that, he's

544
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:44.799
<v Speaker 2>done really well. We're just so excited for him. So they,

545
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.880
<v Speaker 2>of course, you know, let's get the family together. Let's

546
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:53.079
<v Speaker 2>surprise part with the great gift. And that gift turns

547
00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:55.759
<v Speaker 2>out to be a four thousand dollars Rolex watch, which

548
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:01.680
<v Speaker 2>nice great graduation gift for a st kid. And it's

549
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:03.759
<v Speaker 2>ironic too, because there's a lot of photographs that were

550
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:07.319
<v Speaker 2>taking in the house that night of Bart opening his gifts,

551
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:10.440
<v Speaker 2>and in one of the photographs, which I don't even

552
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:12.000
<v Speaker 2>know that I even talked about in the book, but

553
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:16.279
<v Speaker 2>I've actually posted this photograph online a few times. Bart

554
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:19.960
<v Speaker 2>and his brother Kevin are sitting on in front of

555
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:23.839
<v Speaker 2>the fireplace and Bart's just got oh, he's just just

556
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:26.440
<v Speaker 2>got this grin on his face, like he knows something's

557
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:29.200
<v Speaker 2>really interesting he's about to happen. And Kevin is sitting

558
00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:31.160
<v Speaker 2>next to him. He just looks so happy for his brother.

559
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:33.559
<v Speaker 2>But if you look really, it was very very clear.

560
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:35.559
<v Speaker 2>You can look down at Bart's right hand, on his

561
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:40.200
<v Speaker 2>right thigh, he's shooting the bird at his brother and

562
00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:43.279
<v Speaker 2>it's just you know, boom, flipping his brother off. It's

563
00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:46.079
<v Speaker 2>it's a very telling photograph. And like I said, I

564
00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:48.839
<v Speaker 2>didn't put it in the book, but I do. I

565
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:50.759
<v Speaker 2>have put that out there so people can see it

566
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:54.079
<v Speaker 2>because it's pretty you know, here's this guy. He knows

567
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:56.079
<v Speaker 2>exactly what's going to go down in a few hours,

568
00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:58.759
<v Speaker 2>and basically what is going to go down is the

569
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:02.559
<v Speaker 2>same plan that he he's the same plot that he's planned,

570
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:06.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, years in advance, which is he's gonna take mom, dad,

571
00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:08.839
<v Speaker 2>and brother out to a nice restaurant, or they're gonna

572
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:11.960
<v Speaker 2>take him out. They're gonna be celebrating his impending graduation

573
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:16.079
<v Speaker 2>the following night. And while they're at the restaurant, one

574
00:31:16.119 --> 00:31:18.039
<v Speaker 2>of his buddies is gonna sneak into the house. The

575
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:20.039
<v Speaker 2>other buddy is going to actually go to the restaurant

576
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:22.920
<v Speaker 2>and wait in the parking lot to follow him back.

577
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:26.559
<v Speaker 2>And that that person is the getaway driver as well.

578
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:32.119
<v Speaker 2>And that's Chris Bresheer was the masked gunman and Steven

579
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:36.680
<v Speaker 2>Champagne was the driver. And these are two nice, good

580
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:39.200
<v Speaker 2>looking young boys, you know, about twenty four to twenty

581
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:42.920
<v Speaker 2>five years old, who lived in a near Bart, in

582
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:48.000
<v Speaker 2>a place called bent It's actually a Bentwater near Lake Conroe.

583
00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:52.839
<v Speaker 2>They worked with Bart at a fancy country club, country

584
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:57.079
<v Speaker 2>club restaurant that Bart was the restaurant manager at. And

585
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:00.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, good kids, right, good background. Stephen sham pains

586
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:05.799
<v Speaker 2>a marine. You think, okay, you know these are decent kids.

587
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:10.000
<v Speaker 2>And again these were just two more pawns in Bart's

588
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:14.200
<v Speaker 2>game of murdering Chis on his family that he had

589
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:16.599
<v Speaker 2>had brought into the fold, that we're gonna do his

590
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:20.240
<v Speaker 2>dirty work for him, and that's exactly what happened. Bart

591
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:22.599
<v Speaker 2>and the family drove a few miles away from their

592
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.079
<v Speaker 2>house to a very nice.

593
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:29.119
<v Speaker 3>Lucky Land casino, asking people, what's the weirdest place you've

594
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:29.799
<v Speaker 3>gotten lucky?

595
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:32.880
<v Speaker 4>Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess ah, in

596
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:35.000
<v Speaker 4>my dentist's office more than months.

597
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:36.599
<v Speaker 2>Actually do I have to say?

598
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:37.039
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

599
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:37.279
<v Speaker 2>You do?

600
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:40.000
<v Speaker 3>In the car before my kid's PTA meeting?

601
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:43.640
<v Speaker 5>Really? Yes, excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky?

602
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I never win?

603
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:46.400
<v Speaker 1>And tell well, there you have it.

604
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:49.240
<v Speaker 3>You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot

605
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:50.839
<v Speaker 3>com play for free right now?

606
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:52.039
<v Speaker 5>Are you feeling lucky?

607
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:54.119
<v Speaker 3>No, We're just necessary Ford were my long eighteen plus

608
00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:55.279
<v Speaker 3>terms conditions of plus see what's.

609
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:58.519
<v Speaker 2>Every details quest front called Papado, where they were treated

610
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:04.119
<v Speaker 2>very well, were given a celebratory cake and having drinks

611
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.599
<v Speaker 2>and eating all kinds of delicious seafood. And meanwhile, Chris

612
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:10.119
<v Speaker 2>is sneaking in the house. He's wearing all black dressed

613
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:13.200
<v Speaker 2>like a ninja, and Steven Champagne's in the parking lot

614
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.119
<v Speaker 2>of Papado to keep an eye on the family to

615
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:18.640
<v Speaker 2>track him to basically be a heads up phone call

616
00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:21.480
<v Speaker 2>guy to Chris when the family was coming back, so

617
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:23.279
<v Speaker 2>Chris would be ready to go ahead and shoot. The

618
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:27.640
<v Speaker 2>family and the Whittakers eat, they take off. It's still

619
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:31.200
<v Speaker 2>relatively early when they started eating, and they got back

620
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:33.480
<v Speaker 2>at the house at a fairly decent hour, but it

621
00:33:33.559 --> 00:33:38.319
<v Speaker 2>was definitely dark outside. They drive into their neighborhood just

622
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:43.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, very again, very quiet neighborhood, nice houses, fairly

623
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:47.440
<v Speaker 2>close to one another, and they pull into the driveway

624
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:52.359
<v Speaker 2>and Kevin darts out of the car. He always likes

625
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:53.960
<v Speaker 2>to be the first one to open the door, and

626
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:56.480
<v Speaker 2>so he makes his way to the front door. His mom,

627
00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:59.599
<v Speaker 2>Trice's falling right behind him, can't Whitaker. The Dad's right

628
00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:02.839
<v Speaker 2>behind her her, and Bart's behind all three of them,

629
00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:06.839
<v Speaker 2>And as Kevin walks to the front door, Bart says, Dad,

630
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:09.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go out to the street and check my

631
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:11.679
<v Speaker 2>cel phone. I left it in the car. He wanted

632
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:13.880
<v Speaker 2>to hear from his fiance or his girlfriend at the

633
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:17.840
<v Speaker 2>time and give her a call. So the three Whittaker

634
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:20.079
<v Speaker 2>family members are going to the front door, Bart is

635
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:23.000
<v Speaker 2>walking in the opposite direction out to the street to

636
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:27.039
<v Speaker 2>his car. Kevin Whitaker walks up to the door, has

637
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:29.280
<v Speaker 2>a key, unlocks the front door, and the second he

638
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:34.159
<v Speaker 2>walks in is just immediately a gunshot and he falls

639
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:38.559
<v Speaker 2>down right there in the foyer. His mother's screaming, bloody murder.

640
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:42.800
<v Speaker 2>She's like, oh my god, she's screaming. She immediately runs

641
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:47.280
<v Speaker 2>in to Kevin's aid and she gets shot. And then

642
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:50.760
<v Speaker 2>here's Kent Whitaker, the father, the husband, and he hears

643
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:53.320
<v Speaker 2>all these pops and of course, you know, gunfire just

644
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:57.159
<v Speaker 2>doesn't exist in this neighborhood, so obviously something is amiss.

645
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:00.440
<v Speaker 2>He runs in, he gets shot, and he john in

646
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:04.480
<v Speaker 2>the shoulder. He turns around, falls he starts bleeding profusely.

647
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:09.280
<v Speaker 2>Bart hears all the commotion and makes a mad dash

648
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:12.559
<v Speaker 2>through the front yard, sees his dad lying down bleeding,

649
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:16.280
<v Speaker 2>sees his mother literally jumps over his mom and is dead,

650
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:19.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, basically now already almost his dead brother, and

651
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:24.559
<v Speaker 2>runs into uh the living room right next to the

652
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:28.280
<v Speaker 2>kitchen and tackles the intruder, the man in the black

653
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:31.840
<v Speaker 2>mask and uh, you know, dressed and everything. Tackles the guy,

654
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:34.599
<v Speaker 2>knocks the gun out, and the guy gets away. The

655
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:37.559
<v Speaker 2>guy runs out the back you know, the back door

656
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.519
<v Speaker 2>goes to the backyard, through the and jumps over a fence,

657
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:43.239
<v Speaker 2>goes through a navy yard, jumps into the getaway car

658
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:47.400
<v Speaker 2>and takes off, and Bart somehow manages to call nine

659
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:50.440
<v Speaker 2>to one one uh no one one gets out there,

660
00:35:50.599 --> 00:35:53.320
<v Speaker 2>and by the time they already arrived, his brother is dead.

661
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:57.840
<v Speaker 2>Patricia Whitaker is actually still alive, but she is basically

662
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:03.119
<v Speaker 2>hanging on by a thread, and she immediately gets what

663
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:08.400
<v Speaker 2>they call life flight helicopters, and it's emergency helicopters. These

664
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:10.760
<v Speaker 2>are people that are dying. They need to be lifted

665
00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:13.840
<v Speaker 2>up and taken to a hospital right away. Kevin and

666
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:18.719
<v Speaker 2>Patricia both were life flighted out and two separate helicopters. Kent,

667
00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:22.639
<v Speaker 2>the father, however, is basically coherent. He's in severe pain,

668
00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:26.000
<v Speaker 2>as is Bart, who was shot as well. Bart also

669
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:29.239
<v Speaker 2>took a took a bullet to the shoulder. And so

670
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:34.199
<v Speaker 2>the oldest Whitaker men are still doing okay, They're cognizant,

671
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:39.679
<v Speaker 2>they can talk. Patricia and Kevin, however, Kevin basically is dead.

672
00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:45.079
<v Speaker 2>Patricia is however, alive, but needs immediate attention. Well. She

673
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:48.360
<v Speaker 2>actually does not even make it to the hospital. She

674
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:52.239
<v Speaker 2>died in transit to the hospital, and of course Kent

675
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:54.320
<v Speaker 2>did not find this out until a little bit later

676
00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:56.719
<v Speaker 2>once he was transferred up to the hospital as well.

677
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:01.719
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, Kent and bar both were were winged or

678
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:05.280
<v Speaker 2>wounded pretty hit. More so was wounded very badly. Bart

679
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.280
<v Speaker 2>was just kind of winged with the bullet, but he

680
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:10.239
<v Speaker 2>was coherent enough that he could actually talk to the

681
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:12.920
<v Speaker 2>police and try to give them a description. Now, he

682
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:18.079
<v Speaker 2>described the shooter and he couldn't obviously see the skin

683
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:20.239
<v Speaker 2>of the face, of the hands, or anything of the shooter,

684
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:23.719
<v Speaker 2>but he told a police officer that the voice of

685
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:25.159
<v Speaker 2>the shooter sounded like a black man.

686
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:29.239
<v Speaker 6>Okay, Now, what did the Now you had the incredible

687
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:32.760
<v Speaker 6>access or you had well, you had very good access

688
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:36.719
<v Speaker 6>to be able to write this book from authorities, from

689
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:40.280
<v Speaker 6>the people that prosecuted this case. You had some access

690
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:44.159
<v Speaker 6>to those people in your research. What did the police

691
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:48.760
<v Speaker 6>initially think when they assessed the crime scene or shortly

692
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:52.599
<v Speaker 6>after anyway, with this, with Bart's story, with everything that

693
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:55.880
<v Speaker 6>they saw, what was initially their reaction and what was

694
00:37:55.920 --> 00:38:01.039
<v Speaker 6>initially the media's reaction. Did they portray Bart's uh, you know,

695
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:04.960
<v Speaker 6>some kind of hero or or would would be hero?

696
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:08.079
<v Speaker 6>Tell me the assessment of the police, and tell me

697
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:11.800
<v Speaker 6>how the media reported on this initially.

698
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:16.719
<v Speaker 2>The police, you know, it's you're talking about the town

699
00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:20.679
<v Speaker 2>with almost knowing it's murdered, barely any crimes committed. I

700
00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:25.519
<v Speaker 2>mean we're talking maybe some cars getting, you know, cars healing,

701
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:29.880
<v Speaker 2>some cars, maybe some broken windows, teenage hooliganism, that kind

702
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:33.119
<v Speaker 2>of stuff. Murder almost never exists in this town. So

703
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:36.840
<v Speaker 2>when this first happened, you know, a detective Marshall Slot

704
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:41.679
<v Speaker 2>was actually the head of this case. And it's it's

705
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:45.480
<v Speaker 2>bizarre because you know, the the creation that was that

706
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:48.760
<v Speaker 2>Bart wanted to have the crime scene was that this

707
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:52.360
<v Speaker 2>is obviously a robbery gone back and turned into a murder.

708
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:56.519
<v Speaker 2>And so what Bart had told Chris Forsheer is when

709
00:38:56.559 --> 00:38:59.800
<v Speaker 2>you go into the house, pull out some dresser drawers,

710
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:03.360
<v Speaker 2>pull out some clothes out of these drawers, ransacked the place.

711
00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Make it look like you've been rifling through all these

712
00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:08.559
<v Speaker 2>drawers that you're going through looking for jewelry, for money,

713
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:11.920
<v Speaker 2>for anything. Make it look like a crime had been committed.

714
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:15.159
<v Speaker 2>You know, a robbery had been committed first before the murder.

715
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:18.920
<v Speaker 2>And again this kind of goes to that dark humor

716
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:22.519
<v Speaker 2>that the goofiness factor of this case. And I don't

717
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:24.760
<v Speaker 2>mean to be I'm not just I'm not trying to

718
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:28.159
<v Speaker 2>be too light about it, but I understand Chris Brasher

719
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:32.320
<v Speaker 2>actually went in in the parents' bedroom and then also

720
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:35.440
<v Speaker 2>in a hallway to a bathroom where there were these

721
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:38.039
<v Speaker 2>different dressers, and you think, okay, you're gonna pull these

722
00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:41.480
<v Speaker 2>dressers out, and you're gonna just, you know, pull you're

723
00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:43.480
<v Speaker 2>actually gonna pull entire drawers out on some of them,

724
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:45.239
<v Speaker 2>or you're gonna pull them out. Everything's gonna be pulled out.

725
00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Every single drawer was pulled out almost the exact same length.

726
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:52.599
<v Speaker 2>Like you have ten drawers, they're pulled out about an

727
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:55.000
<v Speaker 2>inch and a half and one of them, you know,

728
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:58.039
<v Speaker 2>or three inches here, So it wasn't even enough to

729
00:39:58.039 --> 00:40:00.400
<v Speaker 2>be able to pull it out and toss everything around.

730
00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:03.679
<v Speaker 2>And immediately Marshall Slot the detective, walks in and he

731
00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:06.119
<v Speaker 2>sees this. He's like, this is a joke. You know,

732
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:08.679
<v Speaker 2>this can't be a robbery. This is some kind of

733
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:12.280
<v Speaker 2>some idiot's idea of a prank. And as prank's has

734
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:16.559
<v Speaker 2>gone horribly wrong. So the detective immediately thinks something is up.

735
00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:21.199
<v Speaker 2>Now he doesn't really know that it's Bart until I

736
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:23.320
<v Speaker 2>should say, he doesn't really even start thinking that it's

737
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:26.360
<v Speaker 2>Barred until just a couple of days, well, probably about

738
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:29.880
<v Speaker 2>the next day or two days after, when Bart and

739
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.360
<v Speaker 2>can't Whitaker in the hospital. Detective Slot is putting out

740
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:36.639
<v Speaker 2>phone calls to different people. He wants to find out,

741
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:39.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, anything he can't about the Whittakers, anything that

742
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:41.960
<v Speaker 2>might help him. And what he finds out, of course,

743
00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:45.360
<v Speaker 2>is that Bart was down for his graduation ceremony. Well

744
00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:50.079
<v Speaker 2>he called he being Marshall Slot called Sam Houston State

745
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:53.440
<v Speaker 2>and wanted to find out is Bart Whitaker actually graduated

746
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:56.119
<v Speaker 2>from college? Why did he do that? Why did he

747
00:40:56.199 --> 00:40:59.199
<v Speaker 2>do that? Though you just being a good detective, I guess, okay,

748
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:03.320
<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe he assumed that he was. Maybe he just

749
00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:05.239
<v Speaker 2>thought he could find somebody there that might have known

750
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:07.519
<v Speaker 2>Bart or something. You know, he's never really said flat

751
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:10.360
<v Speaker 2>out why he did that. He just he goes that

752
00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:12.480
<v Speaker 2>was just, you know, that's why Bart was down. So

753
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:15.840
<v Speaker 2>my instinct was to just contact the school just to

754
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:18.559
<v Speaker 2>double check. And sure enough, he got a phone call

755
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:21.679
<v Speaker 2>the next day and said, no, mart Whittaker's not graduating

756
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:23.840
<v Speaker 2>from college here. As a matter of fact, he can't

757
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:26.239
<v Speaker 2>even be a sophomore here yet, so away he's going

758
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:30.320
<v Speaker 2>to graduate. So immediately, you know, light bulb moment everything

759
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:35.480
<v Speaker 2>he ever saw, and Marshall Slot confronts Bart in the hospital,

760
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:38.599
<v Speaker 2>separate from his dad. He says, Bart, why did you

761
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:40.280
<v Speaker 2>lie to my guys? Why did you lie to me?

762
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:43.519
<v Speaker 2>You're not graduating? And then he hummed and hawed, and

763
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:45.760
<v Speaker 2>he just said he told them, you know, told his

764
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:50.400
<v Speaker 2>parents that because he didn't want to embarrass himself. He

765
00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:52.719
<v Speaker 2>didn't want his parents to find out that he was

766
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:55.079
<v Speaker 2>actually a bad student, he was not going to graduate,

767
00:41:55.239 --> 00:41:57.320
<v Speaker 2>that he had been spending all their money all this time,

768
00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:59.960
<v Speaker 2>so he lied to the police officers the night before.

769
00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:06.599
<v Speaker 2>We're about graduating. So obviously this looks really really bad,

770
00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:09.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, Marshall's slought's thinking that, but he can't pin

771
00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:14.480
<v Speaker 2>it down. He can't pin anything down. And miracle, miracles

772
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.440
<v Speaker 2>of a day after that, a gentleman by the name

773
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:20.440
<v Speaker 2>of Adam Hip, who happened to be one of Bart's

774
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:25.159
<v Speaker 2>earlier pawns in this whole These previous failed murder plots

775
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:29.119
<v Speaker 2>had solved about the murders on the internet and had

776
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:31.599
<v Speaker 2>read about the case and the details that were given

777
00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:34.679
<v Speaker 2>out in the media. Uh, he felt like, man, this

778
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:37.360
<v Speaker 2>is exactly what Bart was trying to tell me that

779
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.000
<v Speaker 2>he was trying to convince me to do three years ago.

780
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:42.920
<v Speaker 2>And actually Adam Hipp actually went down and was one

781
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:46.119
<v Speaker 2>of those guys that was down there driving you was

782
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:50.840
<v Speaker 2>going to be an original getaway driver. And Adam Hip

783
00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:54.519
<v Speaker 2>whether he there's some debate as to whether he actually

784
00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:57.920
<v Speaker 2>had some you know, consciousness raising and he was ready

785
00:42:58.000 --> 00:42:59.480
<v Speaker 2>to do the right thing, or if he was just

786
00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:03.239
<v Speaker 2>interested in getting the reward money. Okay, but he came forward,

787
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:04.679
<v Speaker 2>he drove, he was living in Dallas at the time.

788
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:07.239
<v Speaker 2>He drove all the way down to sugar Land, met

789
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Marshall Slott and told him, this is a plot that

790
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Bart Whitaker wanted me to do three years ago to

791
00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:15.559
<v Speaker 2>kill his family. I think this is exactly what he

792
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:19.840
<v Speaker 2>probably did here. And so Marshall Slott, even though he

793
00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:23.280
<v Speaker 2>knows Bart led about his college graduation, even though he's

794
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:25.840
<v Speaker 2>got Adam Hip telling him flat out this guy has

795
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:28.920
<v Speaker 2>plotted this before, he still didn't have any proof all

796
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:32.679
<v Speaker 2>this time. So he's over a period of months, it

797
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:37.039
<v Speaker 2>actually takes almost seven months to finally get enough evidence

798
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:39.920
<v Speaker 2>and get enough information to at least go forward and

799
00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:42.599
<v Speaker 2>start putting this, you know, turning the screws on Bart,

800
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:45.719
<v Speaker 2>and right as he's about to make his move and

801
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:48.400
<v Speaker 2>come in for the arrest, Bart gets wind of it

802
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:52.760
<v Speaker 2>and takes off to Mexico. Now he takes off for

803
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:53.760
<v Speaker 2>almost a year and a half.

804
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:57.480
<v Speaker 6>Now, tell us tell us about the how the police

805
00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:01.559
<v Speaker 6>start putting the screws on on Bart Whitticker, and how

806
00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:04.199
<v Speaker 6>on earth did he get wind of it? How did like,

807
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:07.760
<v Speaker 6>how did he actually be so convinced and then he

808
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:11.360
<v Speaker 6>was correct. I assume that they were close to an

809
00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:15.320
<v Speaker 6>arrest and that caused him to take off the Mexico.

810
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:18.000
<v Speaker 6>So tell us first what the police did, and then

811
00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:21.360
<v Speaker 6>tell us how Bart figured out that they were going

812
00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:22.079
<v Speaker 6>to make an arrest.

813
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Adam Hip the same guy who was Bart's friend, who

814
00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:28.159
<v Speaker 2>was involved in a previous murder plot, who had come

815
00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:34.400
<v Speaker 2>forth to Officer Slot right, he actually went even further

816
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:37.639
<v Speaker 2>in helping the police and said, you know, basically, they said,

817
00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:40.679
<v Speaker 2>we want to put a wire on you. Okay, we

818
00:44:40.760 --> 00:44:43.480
<v Speaker 2>want to wire your phones, and we want you to

819
00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:48.320
<v Speaker 2>reinstigate your friendship with Bart. Because Adam had actually grown

820
00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:52.159
<v Speaker 2>up in sugar Land with Bart were they met actually

821
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:55.280
<v Speaker 2>in high school, but they had become friends. Adam would

822
00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:58.079
<v Speaker 2>actually come over to Bart's house, where they had a

823
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:00.840
<v Speaker 2>little gym set up in their upstairs portion of the house,

824
00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:03.679
<v Speaker 2>and the two would work out together. They were both

825
00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:07.239
<v Speaker 2>very elitists as far as their belief that they were

826
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:10.960
<v Speaker 2>economically superior than other people from their town, and so

827
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:15.079
<v Speaker 2>their weight lifting sessions would consist of talking about how

828
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.039
<v Speaker 2>smart they were, how brilliant they were, and how much

829
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:20.039
<v Speaker 2>money they were going to make. And then eventually, even

830
00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:23.079
<v Speaker 2>back then, Bart started talking to him to Adam Hip,

831
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:25.480
<v Speaker 2>telling him how much he didn't like his parents and

832
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:27.719
<v Speaker 2>how much he really just didn't care for his parents,

833
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:30.559
<v Speaker 2>and Adam Hip never could understand that because he just

834
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:34.440
<v Speaker 2>saw a loving family the whole time. So those guys

835
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:37.280
<v Speaker 2>had known each other for a while. Adam now in

836
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:39.360
<v Speaker 2>the present tense, so at least in two thousand and three,

837
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:42.239
<v Speaker 2>was in Dallas. He was working at a bank. He

838
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:44.559
<v Speaker 2>was doing very well, but he came down, talked to

839
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.719
<v Speaker 2>the police, agreed to do what they wanted to basically

840
00:45:48.159 --> 00:45:51.960
<v Speaker 2>pen this on run Bart, and it took several meetings

841
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:57.800
<v Speaker 2>between Bart and Adam. Bart however, was very smart in

842
00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:59.880
<v Speaker 2>the sense that he always felt like Adam's questions were

843
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.440
<v Speaker 2>a little bit two contrived, it didn't really sound like Adam,

844
00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:08.360
<v Speaker 2>and so he tended to be more evasive when answering

845
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:11.719
<v Speaker 2>Adam's questions about the murders, because Adam would come out, well, Bart,

846
00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:12.519
<v Speaker 2>what happened, man?

847
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:12.800
<v Speaker 6>Is this?

848
00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:15.599
<v Speaker 2>You know what happened to your parents? Is this what happened?

849
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:17.519
<v Speaker 2>When you have the same it almost sounds like exactly

850
00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:20.000
<v Speaker 2>what you wanted us to do. And Bart would never

851
00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:22.679
<v Speaker 2>really come out and answer anything whatever Adam had the

852
00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:28.280
<v Speaker 2>wire on. So this kind of went on for a while.

853
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:31.960
<v Speaker 2>But then then what the police had instructed Adam Hip

854
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:33.719
<v Speaker 2>to do was, look, we're gonna we're gonna, you know,

855
00:46:33.800 --> 00:46:35.559
<v Speaker 2>we are gonna turn the screws on Bart. We want

856
00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:38.280
<v Speaker 2>you to basically tell Bart. Bart, if you don't tell,

857
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:40.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you don't pay me a certain amount

858
00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:43.400
<v Speaker 2>of money, I'm gonna go tell the cops what had

859
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:46.360
<v Speaker 2>happened before. So what they did was they set up

860
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:51.559
<v Speaker 2>a post office box up in Dallas, Texas, and it

861
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:56.639
<v Speaker 2>was basically a hush money box office fund that our

862
00:46:56.800 --> 00:47:00.239
<v Speaker 2>post office box that Bart would be sending money to

863
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Adam Hip, basically to keep his mouth shut, and he

864
00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:06.840
<v Speaker 2>was sent it under the name of Kaiser. So I'm

865
00:47:06.840 --> 00:47:10.360
<v Speaker 2>not sure if you've ever seen the movie The Usual Suspects.

866
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:13.239
<v Speaker 6>Yes, I did, Yes, yes, yes, Okay.

867
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:15.679
<v Speaker 2>So you know, great story. Well, that is actually Park's

868
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:18.599
<v Speaker 2>favorite movie. He just loves this movie and he he

869
00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:24.519
<v Speaker 2>envisions himself as Kevin Spacey is the the ultimate mastermind criminal.

870
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:29.000
<v Speaker 2>And so here he is sending actually sending money to

871
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:31.440
<v Speaker 2>Adam Hip to the p O box at the police

872
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:35.400
<v Speaker 2>set up in Dallas, Texas with the name k SoSE

873
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:40.679
<v Speaker 2>Uh and using his actual return address. These are basically,

874
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:43.679
<v Speaker 2>here's your your hush money is the hush money fund.

875
00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:46.440
<v Speaker 2>And so that was the first thing that they said, Okay,

876
00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:49.480
<v Speaker 2>we've got this. And then and then some of the

877
00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:53.880
<v Speaker 2>recordings also were the phone recordings. The wiretap ones weren't

878
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:56.440
<v Speaker 2>all that great, but then the phone ones were a

879
00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:59.800
<v Speaker 2>little bit more telling, even though they weren't completely explicit

880
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:02.679
<v Speaker 2>that he had killed them, but they felt at that

881
00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:05.400
<v Speaker 2>point then they felt that they had enough. And then

882
00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:07.159
<v Speaker 2>he said, well, how did Bart get wind of it?

883
00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Basically it was his intuition he could tell I mean

884
00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:11.880
<v Speaker 2>no when it flat out came and said Bart, the

885
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:14.000
<v Speaker 2>cops were coming for you. But he could tell by

886
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:16.920
<v Speaker 2>the way Adam kept acting that something was going down.

887
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:19.559
<v Speaker 2>You know, he's threatening to tell the cops he might

888
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:22.599
<v Speaker 2>do it anyway, and sure, he just kind of It's

889
00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:26.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of bizarre, really, because what happened for with Bart

890
00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:29.000
<v Speaker 2>after the murders is that, you know, he was living

891
00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:31.119
<v Speaker 2>about an hour north of sugar Land at the time.

892
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.119
<v Speaker 2>After the murders, he came back to the house where

893
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:38.400
<v Speaker 2>his family was killed and moved in with his dad. Sure,

894
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:41.400
<v Speaker 2>even though her he is he'd orchestrated this murder, and

895
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:43.519
<v Speaker 2>he's willing to go right back and live in his

896
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:48.199
<v Speaker 2>home and his dad, again very religious man, spent the

897
00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:52.960
<v Speaker 2>next seven months basically healing with Bart and you know,

898
00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:55.840
<v Speaker 2>unbeknownst to him, not knowing that this and not knowing

899
00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:58.920
<v Speaker 2>that his son had been responsible for killing his wife

900
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:02.000
<v Speaker 2>and his youngest and here he is basically trying to

901
00:49:02.079 --> 00:49:05.159
<v Speaker 2>minister to his own son that you know, through Christ

902
00:49:05.239 --> 00:49:07.559
<v Speaker 2>and through religion and through the Bible and through these

903
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:11.480
<v Speaker 2>religious based homes, we can find salvation and we can

904
00:49:11.559 --> 00:49:14.239
<v Speaker 2>continue on with our lives. And that's a big part

905
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:16.280
<v Speaker 2>of the story too, is that the night of the

906
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:20.079
<v Speaker 2>murders can't. Would Oker the father actually forgave the shooters

907
00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:22.039
<v Speaker 2>and forgave the killers that.

908
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:24.960
<v Speaker 6>Night he had an epiphany in the hospital.

909
00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:29.880
<v Speaker 2>You said, absolutely, and he just realized that he could

910
00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:34.840
<v Speaker 2>not carry the anger, the rage, a grudge against the

911
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:38.360
<v Speaker 2>people that shot his family, because it would destroy him

912
00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:43.679
<v Speaker 2>and that would not be within his religious calling. So really,

913
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:46.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, again I've talked about this to people that

914
00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:49.760
<v Speaker 2>I could never do that. You know, if somebody whacked

915
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:54.639
<v Speaker 2>my entire family, I would be lividly, insane and in rage.

916
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:56.800
<v Speaker 2>And that's exactly what he's saying not to be. And

917
00:49:57.039 --> 00:49:59.960
<v Speaker 2>so it's extremely admirable. I don't know if it's extremely

918
00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:04.400
<v Speaker 2>realistic for most people, but it's it's definitely something to

919
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:07.039
<v Speaker 2>be admired by a lot of people. And I just,

920
00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:08.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, I don't know how he could do that.

921
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:10.119
<v Speaker 2>But here he is living in his home with this,

922
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:13.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, walking across the entrance into the house every night,

923
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:15.039
<v Speaker 2>where you know your wife and your kid has been

924
00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:18.199
<v Speaker 2>killed and or you're you know, being part knowing that

925
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:21.000
<v Speaker 2>you were responsible for that, and living under this guy

926
00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:23.280
<v Speaker 2>is of Hey, I love my dad and life's great,

927
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:25.880
<v Speaker 2>and he's teaching me about God. And I'm gonna, you know,

928
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:28.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna live a better, more healthy, you know, god

929
00:50:28.599 --> 00:50:32.320
<v Speaker 2>fearing lifestyle. And you know, seven months into it, all

930
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:35.599
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, he just starts getting these intuitions. He

931
00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:38.639
<v Speaker 2>starts feeling the pressure from Adam that you know, Adam

932
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:42.119
<v Speaker 2>hit that you know that Adam might go and talk

933
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:44.760
<v Speaker 2>to the cops, And all of a sudden, he just

934
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:47.679
<v Speaker 2>decides he's ready to hide. Tell it. He gets ten

935
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:49.719
<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars from his dad. His dad didn't really know

936
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:53.519
<v Speaker 2>what's going on. He gets one of his coworkers at

937
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:57.360
<v Speaker 2>a restaurant that he works at to drive him to Mexico,

938
00:50:57.719 --> 00:51:00.559
<v Speaker 2>or at least to the border and where then that

939
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:03.920
<v Speaker 2>he would move in with a family. And he ends

940
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:09.079
<v Speaker 2>up going to Mexico bleaking his hair blonde, telling the

941
00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:14.440
<v Speaker 2>locals that he's actually an Iraqi war veteran. His wound

942
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:19.360
<v Speaker 2>from the shooting was actually from a firefight in Afghanistan,

943
00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:24.239
<v Speaker 2>I believe, and befriends a young girl and she falls

944
00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:27.119
<v Speaker 2>in love with him and convinces her daddy that he's

945
00:51:27.159 --> 00:51:28.920
<v Speaker 2>a great guy. So he ends up getting a job

946
00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:31.360
<v Speaker 2>and her daddy is a furniture store. You know, he

947
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:33.920
<v Speaker 2>just leaves this whole new lifestyle for almost a year

948
00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:37.679
<v Speaker 2>and a half, and you're talking about what depressed him

949
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:40.119
<v Speaker 2>as a hero. They really they didn't really focus on

950
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:41.760
<v Speaker 2>that too much in the press in the beginning with

951
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:44.719
<v Speaker 2>the shootings. But ironically, when he went to Mexico, he

952
00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:49.280
<v Speaker 2>actually supposedly saved the life of a girl who was drowning.

953
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:51.960
<v Speaker 2>There was a flood that had come through, and he

954
00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:55.559
<v Speaker 2>allegedly saved this girl's young this little girl's life. So

955
00:51:55.719 --> 00:51:57.440
<v Speaker 2>he was actually a hero to a lot of the

956
00:51:58.159 --> 00:51:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Mexican families down there.

957
00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:01.639
<v Speaker 6>They might have to look they might want to look

958
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:02.400
<v Speaker 6>into that one though.

959
00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:03.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

960
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:09.159
<v Speaker 6>No, but but with with his tendency to set up

961
00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:10.440
<v Speaker 6>things for his own, uh.

962
00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:13.679
<v Speaker 2>There you go. You know who knows it make him

963
00:52:13.719 --> 00:52:18.000
<v Speaker 2>look good? You know, yeah, probably a perfect examine. Everything

964
00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:19.079
<v Speaker 2>to do is to look into that.

965
00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:21.599
<v Speaker 6>So how was he be turned from Mexico? Was it

966
00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:23.960
<v Speaker 6>was he extradited? What was the circumstances?

967
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:27.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, basically, you know in cases like that, you know,

968
00:52:27.320 --> 00:52:31.519
<v Speaker 2>Mexico does an extra dite death row potential death row candidates. Okay,

969
00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:35.159
<v Speaker 2>because Texas, you know, Texas is just like, hey, you're

970
00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:38.320
<v Speaker 2>in Texas, you kill somebody, capital murder your toast, sure

971
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:42.679
<v Speaker 2>against the death penalty. Well, in that particular case, it

972
00:52:42.760 --> 00:52:47.960
<v Speaker 2>didn't work out. Uh, the authorities in sugar Land contacted

973
00:52:48.119 --> 00:52:50.599
<v Speaker 2>the Mexican authorities and they basically told him what had happened,

974
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:53.719
<v Speaker 2>and that this guy's been pulling a ruse over your

975
00:52:53.800 --> 00:52:56.519
<v Speaker 2>people for the last year and a half. And uh,

976
00:52:56.679 --> 00:53:01.239
<v Speaker 2>they they actually kindly escorted Bart back across supporder. Wow,

977
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:05.519
<v Speaker 2>friseningly after said almost eighteen months out there in Mexico.

978
00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:09.320
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, and then at that point Bart, you know,

979
00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:11.320
<v Speaker 2>from that point then it's all pretty much boiler play

980
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:14.320
<v Speaker 2>to what happens is that Bart gets arrested, he gets charged,

981
00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:19.199
<v Speaker 2>he goes on trial. What makes the story, you know,

982
00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Another bizarre twist on it is that Kent Whitaker, who

983
00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:27.079
<v Speaker 2>was a shooting victim and also the survivor, the lone

984
00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:31.280
<v Speaker 2>survivor of the crime, is actually there supporting his son

985
00:53:31.880 --> 00:53:34.880
<v Speaker 2>sure to be to avoid the death penalty. As opposed

986
00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:37.920
<v Speaker 2>to saying, you know that guy did it. Yeah, he's

987
00:53:37.960 --> 00:53:40.519
<v Speaker 2>my son, but he killed my family. So you know,

988
00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry to say this, but he needs to die.

989
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:44.800
<v Speaker 2>It was a total opposite. You know, Kent was actually

990
00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:48.000
<v Speaker 2>very very adamant even before the case went to trial.

991
00:53:48.079 --> 00:53:50.639
<v Speaker 2>They really tried hard. And that's actually a lot of

992
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:53.719
<v Speaker 2>true crime books will kind of rehash the whole story

993
00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:56.719
<v Speaker 2>in the trial section. Sure, what I tried to do

994
00:53:56.960 --> 00:53:58.840
<v Speaker 2>is a little different on this particular book is that

995
00:53:59.159 --> 00:54:01.400
<v Speaker 2>I only focus on three people. I mean, the actual

996
00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:04.440
<v Speaker 2>trial itself I didn't really care about because I've already

997
00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:07.280
<v Speaker 2>told you the crime and what had happened, right, So

998
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:10.079
<v Speaker 2>I actually skipped almost all that and went straight to

999
00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:16.400
<v Speaker 2>he's guilty. But let's hear from three people that believe differently.

1000
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:19.400
<v Speaker 2>You know that Bart should not be executed, and that

1001
00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:24.920
<v Speaker 2>was his uncle, which was his mother's brother, Bold his

1002
00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:28.119
<v Speaker 2>name is Bow, and then Uh and then Kent Whittaker,

1003
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:30.599
<v Speaker 2>who you know, really gave him a lot of pages

1004
00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:34.280
<v Speaker 2>to really discuss why it was important for him to

1005
00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:39.559
<v Speaker 2>not have his only living UH family member executed, then

1006
00:54:39.679 --> 00:54:43.920
<v Speaker 2>encountered it at the end with Bart Whittaker's own testimony. So, Harry,

1007
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.800
<v Speaker 2>you've got these two really really great nice men. Bo

1008
00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:51.559
<v Speaker 2>Whittaker really, honestly, I don't think it gave a rat's

1009
00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:54.519
<v Speaker 2>lick about Bart, but he didn't believe that his sister

1010
00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:57.320
<v Speaker 2>would want him executed. Kent, of course, did not want

1011
00:54:57.360 --> 00:55:00.480
<v Speaker 2>his son executed. Then when you actually listen to what

1012
00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Bart says and the arrogance that he continued to display,

1013
00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:11.360
<v Speaker 2>the braggadaccio that he has, it's amazing. And when you

1014
00:55:11.480 --> 00:55:14.199
<v Speaker 2>actually read what Bart says, you're like, thank God they

1015
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:17.679
<v Speaker 2>put this guy on death row because it's just the

1016
00:55:18.440 --> 00:55:22.920
<v Speaker 2>ego that was running is so rampant in his world,

1017
00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:23.880
<v Speaker 2>is just phenomenal.

1018
00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:27.480
<v Speaker 6>And you know what I was very curious about Corey

1019
00:55:27.719 --> 00:55:31.760
<v Speaker 6>was though, and we haven't mentioned it, is that what

1020
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:35.559
<v Speaker 6>was his fiance? He was he was planning to get

1021
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:37.360
<v Speaker 6>married to this woman, and a couple of months after

1022
00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:41.239
<v Speaker 6>the murders, he actually asked her to marry her. Tell

1023
00:55:41.320 --> 00:55:44.239
<v Speaker 6>us a little bit about the fiance's reaction. Did she

1024
00:55:44.679 --> 00:55:48.960
<v Speaker 6>have any indication of his real true character, tell us

1025
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:52.119
<v Speaker 6>a little bit about her reaction, and just tell us

1026
00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:54.119
<v Speaker 6>a little bit about his fiance. His girlfriend.

1027
00:55:54.519 --> 00:55:56.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's just say that, first of all, when the

1028
00:55:56.960 --> 00:56:01.079
<v Speaker 2>word came out that Bart was leaving for Mexico because

1029
00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:04.800
<v Speaker 2>he was a major suspect and a murder, Yeah, wedding

1030
00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:12.119
<v Speaker 2>invitations were recalled. Basically his girlfriend at the time, you know,

1031
00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:16.039
<v Speaker 2>at the time of the murders. Really sweet girl, very smart,

1032
00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:18.199
<v Speaker 2>was going to a different college than him. She was

1033
00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:20.920
<v Speaker 2>attending University of Texas. He was a Baylor at the time.

1034
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:25.840
<v Speaker 2>She came from a very well to do family, so

1035
00:56:26.280 --> 00:56:30.440
<v Speaker 2>obviously had no need for any Whittaker money because her

1036
00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:32.320
<v Speaker 2>family actually made a lot more money than the Whitaker

1037
00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:36.760
<v Speaker 2>family did. And so really, this is a very cute, attractive,

1038
00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:41.000
<v Speaker 2>sweet smart girl who had fallen in love with this guy,

1039
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:45.239
<v Speaker 2>who really thought he was just a sweet, charismatic, congenial

1040
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:47.639
<v Speaker 2>fellow who made her feel like a queen, you know,

1041
00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:51.199
<v Speaker 2>basically what any person would want in a relationship. And yeah,

1042
00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:53.840
<v Speaker 2>they had been together for quite a while through college

1043
00:56:54.320 --> 00:56:59.000
<v Speaker 2>at a long distance relationship before the murders. And she

1044
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:01.639
<v Speaker 2>was actually gonna meet up with Bart the day after

1045
00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:03.880
<v Speaker 2>the murders to meet with their family. She couldn't go

1046
00:57:03.960 --> 00:57:07.239
<v Speaker 2>out that night because she was seeing her family when

1047
00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:10.239
<v Speaker 2>she come into town. And uh a, you know, at

1048
00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:12.079
<v Speaker 2>the time they're still boyfriend and girlfriend. The murders, and

1049
00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:14.599
<v Speaker 2>of course she's right there by his side that you know,

1050
00:57:14.679 --> 00:57:18.039
<v Speaker 2>after he gets shot, and sure she's the good, loving

1051
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:20.719
<v Speaker 2>girlfriend and she's going to take care of him. And

1052
00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:23.840
<v Speaker 2>sure enough soon as Bart Hills and they get kind

1053
00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:27.159
<v Speaker 2>of back into a flow of life. After the murders,

1054
00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:31.159
<v Speaker 2>Bart and his girlfriend start talking about let's do this,

1055
00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:34.519
<v Speaker 2>let's get engaged, let's let's let's get married. And he

1056
00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:36.320
<v Speaker 2>asked her to marry him and she said yes. And

1057
00:57:36.440 --> 00:57:39.320
<v Speaker 2>this is all in the interim for the murders before

1058
00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:41.960
<v Speaker 2>he leaves for Mexico. So that whole seven month period

1059
00:57:42.639 --> 00:57:45.840
<v Speaker 2>and again just you know, a woman, a young woman

1060
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:49.000
<v Speaker 2>truly in love with her man, and needless to say,

1061
00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:51.800
<v Speaker 2>once Bart hotels, and the way she finds out is

1062
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:56.239
<v Speaker 2>that Bart actually wrote a few letters to a few people,

1063
00:57:56.599 --> 00:57:59.880
<v Speaker 2>one being his girlfriend, one to his father, and one

1064
00:58:00.039 --> 00:58:03.239
<v Speaker 2>to the family attorney. And at that time what he

1065
00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:05.039
<v Speaker 2>said in the letter to Lynn is, you know, I

1066
00:58:05.159 --> 00:58:09.199
<v Speaker 2>adore you. You're my world. Everything is about you is fantastic. However,

1067
00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:12.039
<v Speaker 2>these people think I'm the I'm this crazy killer and

1068
00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:14.760
<v Speaker 2>I didn't do it, but I've got to go because

1069
00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:17.280
<v Speaker 2>they think that I did it. So obviously she's like

1070
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:22.119
<v Speaker 2>mortified that, you know, her lover, you know, the man

1071
00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:25.000
<v Speaker 2>she has said I do or is planning on saying

1072
00:58:25.039 --> 00:58:28.679
<v Speaker 2>I do too, is like I said, the prime suspect

1073
00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:31.880
<v Speaker 2>and the murder of his own family, and uh yeah,

1074
00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:34.360
<v Speaker 2>everything from that point for her just shut down. And

1075
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:38.280
<v Speaker 2>to this day she is very you know, pulling the

1076
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:41.760
<v Speaker 2>curtains down and doesn't want anybody to know what had

1077
00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:45.199
<v Speaker 2>happened to her and doesn't want to talk about it because,

1078
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:49.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, mortified, embarrassed, horrified that what her lover could

1079
00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:51.559
<v Speaker 2>do and she had no clue.

1080
00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:55.719
<v Speaker 6>So yeah, that's crazy, tragic all the way around. Yeah,

1081
00:58:56.559 --> 00:58:59.280
<v Speaker 6>now we've only got about three minutes left. I will

1082
00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:01.840
<v Speaker 6>leave the rest of the book for people that now

1083
00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:04.320
<v Speaker 6>have been intrigued to buy this book and then read it,

1084
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:07.039
<v Speaker 6>because it's a great read. It's your great storyteller, Corey,

1085
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:09.599
<v Speaker 6>And this is a this is a crazy story. Like

1086
00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:11.760
<v Speaker 6>you say, so much black humor. You hate to laugh

1087
00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:14.559
<v Speaker 6>at it, but it's so absurd. You talk about criminal mastermind,

1088
00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:17.599
<v Speaker 6>This guy's the exact opposite if there ever was one.

1089
00:59:17.960 --> 00:59:21.079
<v Speaker 6>And you did talk a little bit about just briefly,

1090
00:59:21.079 --> 00:59:22.800
<v Speaker 6>I want to talk about some of the things that

1091
00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:25.920
<v Speaker 6>you're doing now, your latest project are projects. But you

1092
00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:28.079
<v Speaker 6>did say that you thought that the reason for this

1093
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:29.880
<v Speaker 6>overall was he was just bored.

1094
00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:34.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I really do. I use the you know, the

1095
00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:36.639
<v Speaker 2>almost on hundred centy year old or a hundred year

1096
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:40.199
<v Speaker 2>old case now of Leopold Lobe, of the young rich,

1097
00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:43.440
<v Speaker 2>bored guys that are trying to commit the ultimate crime.

1098
00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:46.039
<v Speaker 2>And I really think I don't think it was money,

1099
00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:49.639
<v Speaker 2>because bart was fine, you know, he was doing great financially.

1100
00:59:49.719 --> 00:59:51.960
<v Speaker 2>I really think he was bored out of his skull

1101
00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:54.400
<v Speaker 2>and I think he thought he was smarter than everybody else,

1102
00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:56.719
<v Speaker 2>and what better way to prove that than kill your

1103
00:59:56.880 --> 01:00:00.639
<v Speaker 2>entire family and get away with it. Incredible, he almost did.

1104
01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:04.199
<v Speaker 2>I mean he literally almost got away with it. It's incredible,

1105
01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:07.000
<v Speaker 2>but amazing he did not. And then, yeah, as far

1106
01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:10.239
<v Speaker 2>as projects go, I'm a boy. I'm working on a

1107
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:14.679
<v Speaker 2>case now where my killer actually just committed suicide in prison.

1108
01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:18.639
<v Speaker 2>Two weeks ago, a case here in San Antonio, Texas,

1109
01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:22.760
<v Speaker 2>a teacher by the name of Diane Tilly was kidnapped, raped,

1110
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:26.559
<v Speaker 2>and tortured by a father and daughter team. Gentleman by

1111
01:00:26.599 --> 01:00:28.880
<v Speaker 2>the name of Ronnie joe' neil had committed the murder.

1112
01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:33.559
<v Speaker 2>Just an amazing woman. Diane Tilly actually founded a school

1113
01:00:33.639 --> 01:00:37.360
<v Speaker 2>for troubled teens, which ironically would have been perfect for

1114
01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:40.000
<v Speaker 2>the daughter. You know, she probably would have been a

1115
01:00:40.039 --> 01:00:42.519
<v Speaker 2>prime candidate for her school instead she ends up killing

1116
01:00:42.559 --> 01:00:42.920
<v Speaker 2>this woman.

1117
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:43.679
<v Speaker 5>Wow.

1118
01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:46.800
<v Speaker 2>So that case, I'll be finishing that up this summer

1119
01:00:46.840 --> 01:00:49.039
<v Speaker 2>and that'll be my book for Kensington that'll come out

1120
01:00:49.119 --> 01:00:52.960
<v Speaker 2>next year. And then real excited, I've got a little

1121
01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:56.079
<v Speaker 2>change of pace. I'm working on the I'm actually helping

1122
01:00:56.199 --> 01:01:00.639
<v Speaker 2>co author in autobiography for the heavy metal band Pantera

1123
01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:04.920
<v Speaker 2>and the lead singer Philip en Somo. Huge, huge metal

1124
01:01:04.960 --> 01:01:06.599
<v Speaker 2>band for those people that don't know about him. They've

1125
01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:10.679
<v Speaker 2>sold over twenty million records, played thousands of shows worldwide.

1126
01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Where you know, the first heavy extreme heavy metal band

1127
01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:18.159
<v Speaker 2>to debut number one on the Billboard Charts with an

1128
01:01:18.159 --> 01:01:21.039
<v Speaker 2>album back in nineteen eighty four. There's actually even a

1129
01:01:21.119 --> 01:01:23.480
<v Speaker 2>true crime angle on it where one of the guitar

1130
01:01:23.559 --> 01:01:27.079
<v Speaker 2>players in the band was shot murdered on stage. So

1131
01:01:27.199 --> 01:01:29.760
<v Speaker 2>that's an exciting story for me to be involved in.

1132
01:01:30.920 --> 01:01:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Very privileged to be involved in that. And then I'm

1133
01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:37.760
<v Speaker 2>actually co authoring a I call it the Spurned Political

1134
01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Wife memoir of a former wife of a Kentucky legislator who,

1135
01:01:44.920 --> 01:01:48.440
<v Speaker 2>after he divorced his wife, went on to kill his mistress.

1136
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:51.599
<v Speaker 2>So I'll actually be working on that book as well,

1137
01:01:51.880 --> 01:01:55.960
<v Speaker 2>and co authoring that with the wife on that case.

1138
01:01:56.039 --> 01:01:58.000
<v Speaker 2>So I'm just trying something a little different. You know.

1139
01:01:58.119 --> 01:02:01.760
<v Speaker 2>This Savage Son is my seventh book book, and I'm

1140
01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:04.199
<v Speaker 2>looking for just a little change in life a little bit.

1141
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:06.639
<v Speaker 2>But I'll always write true crime books. I just need

1142
01:02:06.719 --> 01:02:08.760
<v Speaker 2>to take a bit of a step back and try

1143
01:02:08.840 --> 01:02:12.760
<v Speaker 2>something different for my own interest. But I think everybody

1144
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:14.920
<v Speaker 2>that follows me and knows what I like well will

1145
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:18.079
<v Speaker 2>enjoy all of those books. So I'm hoping right now

1146
01:02:18.119 --> 01:02:20.119
<v Speaker 2>though that they'll go out by Savage Son and enjoy

1147
01:02:20.199 --> 01:02:20.679
<v Speaker 2>that one too.

1148
01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:24.199
<v Speaker 6>So absolutely, it's an incredible story, Corey, and I want

1149
01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:26.320
<v Speaker 6>to thank you very much for coming on my program

1150
01:02:26.480 --> 01:02:29.719
<v Speaker 6>and talking about this incredible book. And it was a

1151
01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:32.920
<v Speaker 6>great interview. Like I say, you're a great natural storyteller,

1152
01:02:33.039 --> 01:02:35.760
<v Speaker 6>so we've really enjoyed it. I will speak on behalf

1153
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:38.199
<v Speaker 6>of the audience and myself, so I want to thank

1154
01:02:38.239 --> 01:02:40.719
<v Speaker 6>you very much and good luck with your next project,

1155
01:02:40.800 --> 01:02:42.719
<v Speaker 6>and hopefully we'll have you on the show in the

1156
01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:45.039
<v Speaker 6>fall when that comes out, or when it does come out,

1157
01:02:45.079 --> 01:02:47.480
<v Speaker 6>we'll have you back on the program talk about that book.

1158
01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:51.280
<v Speaker 2>It should be good anytime. Dan, it's a pleasure to

1159
01:02:51.360 --> 01:02:54.960
<v Speaker 2>talk with aspiring true crime authors like you, not only

1160
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:58.480
<v Speaker 2>aspiring but published true crime authors like you. And you know, hey,

1161
01:02:58.840 --> 01:03:01.239
<v Speaker 2>all my fans out there, I want you to check

1162
01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:03.960
<v Speaker 2>out Dan's work because he definitely is an up and

1163
01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:06.320
<v Speaker 2>coming voice that we all need to hear and read

1164
01:03:06.440 --> 01:03:09.599
<v Speaker 2>and go out and support this man too, because he's

1165
01:03:09.639 --> 01:03:12.519
<v Speaker 2>doing a great job with this radio program and a

1166
01:03:12.599 --> 01:03:15.280
<v Speaker 2>great storyteller as well. So right back at you, sir.

1167
01:03:15.800 --> 01:03:17.480
<v Speaker 6>Well, thanks very much, Corey. If you ever need a

1168
01:03:17.559 --> 01:03:19.880
<v Speaker 6>job as a publicist, I got a job for you,

1169
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:25.159
<v Speaker 6>so absolutely, okay, anytime. Okay, Well, it's very nice talking

1170
01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:28.079
<v Speaker 6>to you. Have a great evening, Corey, and thanks very

1171
01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:29.159
<v Speaker 6>much for coming on the program.

1172
01:03:29.559 --> 01:03:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Dan, thanks so much for having me, sir. It was

1173
01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:32.719
<v Speaker 2>my pleasure and I look forward to talking to you

1174
01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:33.280
<v Speaker 2>in the future.

1175
01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:35.880
<v Speaker 6>Okay, great, good night, You have a great night.

1176
01:03:35.920 --> 01:03:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Bye bye, you too.

1177
01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:39.880
<v Speaker 6>You've been listening to the program True Murder, the most

1178
01:03:40.039 --> 01:03:42.480
<v Speaker 6>shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that

1179
01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:46.480
<v Speaker 6>have written about them, with your host, Dan Zupanski. See

1180
01:03:46.519 --> 01:03:47.039
<v Speaker 6>you next time.

1181
01:03:47.239 --> 01:03:47.599
<v Speaker 2>Good night,