1 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:35,359 Speaker 1: All right, welcome to episode three sixteen of Hobby Hotline. 2 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,079 Good Saturday Morning. We missed last week. These are some 3 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,960 technical stuff, so glad to be back. Our apologies for 4 00:00:44,119 --> 00:00:48,359 the one week hiatus, but gave us another week to 5 00:00:48,439 --> 00:00:53,000 see some of the hobby news and whatnot. So joining 6 00:00:53,039 --> 00:00:58,200 me on this week's episode to my top right, mister 7 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,479 stale gum Chris Hare from the one. 8 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,359 Speaker 2: It's episode three sixteen, so everybody out there give me 9 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,840 a hell yeah. 10 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 3: Oh yeah. 11 00:01:09,359 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: And I had to be on with the with the 12 00:01:11,359 --> 00:01:14,799 first name of John, so uh, you know it works 13 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,959 out there, and making his Hobby Hotline debut was supposed 14 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,359 to be last week, so it's a week late. His 15 00:01:21,519 --> 00:01:26,799 rookie appearance, his rookie card, Hobby Hotline Orlando a Collector's Dream. 16 00:01:26,879 --> 00:01:28,680 Welcome from Florida. 17 00:01:28,879 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 3: Thank you John, Thank you Chris, and great to be on, 18 00:01:31,439 --> 00:01:33,680 especially on sixteen, episode three sixteen. 19 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. 20 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 3: And uh, as you can see, I'm in the car 21 00:01:38,599 --> 00:01:42,560 out of town. So I tried to find that's dedication. 22 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: That all that is Orlando's dedication and perseverance, and it's 23 00:01:47,799 --> 00:01:50,599 you know, you're not You're not. We've we've had people 24 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,319 record from the car. So that's not a first. It 25 00:01:53,439 --> 00:01:56,719 just shows that you're dedicated and didn't want to appreciate that. 26 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,159 A couple of good mornings before we get into our 27 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:04,319 first cut topic. Uh Man City Brew, Uh, Mookie chilsen 28 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:13,400 Abe and Vegas bile Ball, Frank Giastella, Rubin, Mike Petty, Uh, 29 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,439 just George uh and uh yeah that's that's you know, 30 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,080 it's the ones that said hello, and anyone else out 31 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:25,080 there maybe didn't type of comment good morning. Uh. As well, 32 00:02:25,159 --> 00:02:28,840 let's get into the first topic, right, and this has 33 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:33,960 been a big thing. It's always it's it's not a 34 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,439 new thing, but it's sort of made got more attention guys. 35 00:02:37,759 --> 00:02:41,759 You know these card bounties recently that tops now triple 36 00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:44,639 uh the one to one, the triple auto. 37 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: Uh. 38 00:02:45,479 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: Nate Burns from Gland Slam put a million dollar bounty 39 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,759 and had a five on. It becomes almost an auction 40 00:02:51,879 --> 00:02:56,560 with these bounties, right. Uh, someone will offer something, someone 41 00:02:56,599 --> 00:02:59,319 will come over the top. So someone had previously offered 42 00:02:59,759 --> 00:03:04,199 uh five hundred thousand uh and then Nate from Grand 43 00:03:04,199 --> 00:03:09,039 Slam offered a million dollars. You know, it's nice, I 44 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,240 guess to have that kind of money and and you know, 45 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,120 be able to spend it and acquire a card of significance. Yeah, 46 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,080 I'm not faulting anyone for that, but obviously some of 47 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:24,919 it is an attention grab. You know. I don't think 48 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,800 it's bad. I don't. I also don't think it's really 49 00:03:28,199 --> 00:03:31,199 good necessarily. I think it is what it is. Your 50 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,000 guys thoughts. I know, I know Chris too. I'm gonna 51 00:03:35,039 --> 00:03:37,439 go I'm gonna acquss the Chris because I know legally, 52 00:03:37,919 --> 00:03:41,479 you know, he works in the government. I can't say everything, 53 00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:46,080 but but he might have something, you know, to a 54 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,479 different layer to this, to kind of elaborate on. But 55 00:03:49,919 --> 00:03:50,719 go ahead, Chris. 56 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 2: So I wanted to bring this topic up. This This 57 00:03:54,039 --> 00:03:55,960 is gonna be a bit of a preview of my 58 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,479 column for Hobby News Daily, which should be dropping any 59 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,240 day now. But we've seen a lot of these bounties. 60 00:04:04,759 --> 00:04:09,680 Ever since the dawn of the insert card about thirty 61 00:04:09,759 --> 00:04:15,120 years ago. The Hobby's been skating on this edge of 62 00:04:15,199 --> 00:04:19,560 whether or not opening up a pack of cards constitutes 63 00:04:19,639 --> 00:04:25,439 something of a raffle or a lottery. And if you 64 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,199 notice on the back of a pack wrapper or a box, 65 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:34,839 there's a lot of Weasley Legalese that says things like, 66 00:04:35,319 --> 00:04:38,519 you know, in fact, I have a twenty twenty four 67 00:04:38,639 --> 00:04:43,600 Tops factory set here and it says in small type, 68 00:04:43,959 --> 00:04:47,160 and you'll not find this on just about every TOPS 69 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,680 wrapper or box. Tops does not in any manner make 70 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,399 any representations as to whether its cards will attain any 71 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:02,240 future value. And you know that's there to Cya, you know. 72 00:05:02,879 --> 00:05:09,480 But now you have these group breakers online, wax dealers, 73 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:16,839 hobby shops, many of whom have direct relationships with Tops, 74 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:23,319 that are offering these almost ridiculous bounties. Now where is 75 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:28,199 this even now legal? Because even though Tops is not 76 00:05:28,879 --> 00:05:33,120 making any statement as to whether their cards are valuable, 77 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,920 someone else is, someone with a business relationship to Tops, 78 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,240 is now offering a lot of money for some of 79 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,720 these cards. So that's my question to the hog hobby. 80 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,639 Are these bounties now even legal anymore? 81 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, now I get it, you know, a couple of 82 00:05:53,319 --> 00:05:56,399 comments said about it definitely drives the prices up, right. 83 00:05:56,519 --> 00:06:00,120 I think we saw how many copies, you know, going 84 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,360 back to that that Olympic try card with Durant Curry 85 00:06:05,439 --> 00:06:08,680 and James, right, we've seen how many of those wound 86 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,079 up being sold. Those were print to demand. So the 87 00:06:12,439 --> 00:06:15,759 odds of you buying some of those or ordering over 88 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:20,120 half of yeah, getting that one on one are are 89 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,959 are astronomical or very long odds. But like you know, 90 00:06:25,639 --> 00:06:28,600 there's a lot of the galleys, right, I guess if 91 00:06:28,639 --> 00:06:31,639 you if you get that card, you're glad there's a 92 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,240 million dollar bounty on it because if you want to 93 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,959 sell it, right, but again, you don't have to sell it, 94 00:06:37,959 --> 00:06:40,920 and you don't have to sell it to who's offering 95 00:06:40,959 --> 00:06:44,040 the bounty. You could put it on an auction house, 96 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,079 you know, you get give it the heritage and see 97 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,800 what it goes there, or tell the person offering the bounty, Hey, 98 00:06:49,879 --> 00:06:52,040 I'm not just gonna give it to you. If you 99 00:06:52,079 --> 00:06:54,439 want to bid up to a million dollars, here's where 100 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,279 it's going to be auctioned off. And uh, you know, 101 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,040 it's just it's it's you know, someone has been in 102 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,240 a hobby forty years. 103 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,759 Speaker 3: This is it's gambling. I mean that's what it is. 104 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,120 But I really think, I mean about the legality of it. 105 00:07:10,199 --> 00:07:12,160 I think it has to be legal. I mean, this 106 00:07:12,279 --> 00:07:15,439 is an individual that's looking for a card and is 107 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,000 willing to put a bounty on it. If I was 108 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,120 looking for a particular Let's say I'm looking for a 109 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,360 good Win Champions this particular card in A seven, and 110 00:07:23,399 --> 00:07:25,920 there's only one out there, I could put a bounty 111 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,800 out there and say, hey, I'll pay so much for 112 00:07:27,839 --> 00:07:30,639 that card if you've got it, knowing there's one one 113 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,639 of them out there, any rare card. So I don't know. 114 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,240 I think, you know, it's got to be legal, but 115 00:07:35,879 --> 00:07:36,519 is it ethical? 116 00:07:38,839 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: I don't. 117 00:07:39,319 --> 00:07:41,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not an attorney. I'm just thinking, you know, 118 00:07:41,439 --> 00:07:45,000 as a personal person, I want that card. I want 119 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,920 it for a million dollars. If you get it, I'll 120 00:07:46,959 --> 00:07:49,360 pay it. You know. That's that's what it is now. 121 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,439 I think personally it's a brilliant move what Fanatics is 122 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,959 doing and the other guys are doing. And I think 123 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,879 whether it's in conjunction with Jeff Wilson or Golden. 124 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: Or yeah, this is a this is comment from from 125 00:08:03,519 --> 00:08:07,279 Rex that you know, you know, tops slash Fanatics kind 126 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:10,040 of teamed up with Jeff Wilson on the bounty that 127 00:08:10,319 --> 00:08:13,240 I don't like, right, because it's their product, they almost 128 00:08:13,279 --> 00:08:16,160 should stay out of it and let let the people 129 00:08:16,199 --> 00:08:19,319 who are often the offering the bounties do it on 130 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,120 their own accord, right, you know, Jeff Rex is saying 131 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,959 it's a it's a conflict of interest, and I kind 132 00:08:25,959 --> 00:08:29,639 of agree, Like TOMPs has mate the card, Tops has 133 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,559 made the card. Get out of the way. Let the 134 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,200 market whatever that market is. Kind of bear what that 135 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,279 card is going to go for. But don't have your 136 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,240 hand in the same till you're you're taking from. 137 00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 3: I agree, But as a business move, if it was 138 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,759 your business and you're thinking, look at how I could 139 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:51,519 promote my products, because I think it's a brilliant way 140 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,159 to promote your products. I mean, look how many people 141 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,879 are going out there and how much national attention they've 142 00:08:57,919 --> 00:09:00,320 gotten for that one of them. And I don't know 143 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,159 if you know, but recently the one of one gold 144 00:09:03,279 --> 00:09:06,480 version unsigned one was pulled and it was pulled by 145 00:09:06,519 --> 00:09:09,639 an eight year old kid. I saw it immediately, he 146 00:09:09,759 --> 00:09:13,159 sent it over to Golden you know. Yeah, it's it's 147 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,120 a lot of it's a lot of retake. But I 148 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,279 really think as far as fanatics and what TOPS is doing, 149 00:09:18,759 --> 00:09:20,480 I think it's brilliant marketing. 150 00:09:20,639 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: Because yeah, I won't argue that Orlando, I think it is. 151 00:09:24,519 --> 00:09:29,120 But they would still get they would still get that 152 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,120 marketing without them like being in conjunction, like the bounties 153 00:09:33,159 --> 00:09:37,000 itself are drawing attention to the product. So I don't 154 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,799 want to, you know, if it's up to me, in 155 00:09:38,879 --> 00:09:42,120 my two cents, I don't want to see Tops infinet 156 00:09:42,279 --> 00:09:46,360 slash Fanatics like set the bounties up or be in 157 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,799 conjunction or a co op with them. Let them. The 158 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,639 bounties are going to happen, whether Tops wants it to 159 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:54,960 happen or doesn't want. 160 00:09:54,799 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 3: It to happen, right, those are that's the that's the 161 00:09:57,919 --> 00:10:01,879 concern John. When you have a monopoly basically other than panin, 162 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,360 I mean, you almost have a monopoly. They're controlling not 163 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,600 only their product distribution, but they're controlling who's breaking it, 164 00:10:08,879 --> 00:10:12,080 where they're going to break it, you know, stuff like that. 165 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,559 And yeah, I'm not a fan of that, but that 166 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,200 that's what Fanatics has done. They've controlled the market, and uh, 167 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,759 you know it's up to us assumers to decide what 168 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,399 are we going to do, you know, And I think 169 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,519 that's that's where are we going to go after those 170 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,519 type of products and after those hits. But also remember 171 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,759 tell they're gonna hurt themselves too. Once that one of 172 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,480 one super fractor gets pulled from that product. The values 173 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,840 just shoot right down on those products. 174 00:10:38,919 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, comment from rookie here. You know Tops wants the 175 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,200 bounties they have and they take all the profit from 176 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,159 distributed distribution on demand. You know, Tops just made a 177 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,200 loan on the sale of this card. We're talking about 178 00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:55,360 seven million dollars on one card. It's not even you know, 179 00:10:55,519 --> 00:10:59,519 a box or a five hundred card set or three 180 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,879 hundred cards that it was one card. Now there are 181 00:11:03,039 --> 00:11:07,799 variations in different sps and super short prints, so it's 182 00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:10,840 not necessarily one card, but it's not a full release 183 00:11:10,919 --> 00:11:14,000 product like a box like Chris sort of held up, 184 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,360 or a set like that, and uh, you know, and 185 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,879 I get it. And listen, we talk about it being gambling, 186 00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:24,639 whether we like it or not. Right, isn't the hobby 187 00:11:24,639 --> 00:11:28,159 in a sense, especially if you're opening wat because like 188 00:11:28,279 --> 00:11:31,159 Chris said, he read the odds on the back. The 189 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,559 odds are there, right, it's in the form of gambling. 190 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,480 I mean, the only time I think the hobby's not 191 00:11:35,639 --> 00:11:38,919 gambling is when you just buy a card out right, 192 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,440 you go to a show. Somebody can make an argument 193 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,679 that that's you know, you're you're gambling on the future 194 00:11:44,759 --> 00:11:47,399 value of that it will it remain the same go up, 195 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,879 go down. You're taking a chance there, but on a 196 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,720 really lesser scale, let's put it that way than buying, 197 00:11:54,159 --> 00:11:56,919 you know, a box for three, four or even five 198 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,080 figures to rip open and right, here's the other and 199 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,519 that makes me nervous. Something we you know, I'm sure 200 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,840 it's been talked about with with you know, great comment 201 00:12:05,879 --> 00:12:09,679 from Ruben. Life is a gamble, right, Uh, I'm I'm 202 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,799 with I'm with Jason here too. The consumer will stick. 203 00:12:13,879 --> 00:12:17,039 I'm a vintage guy. I don't open too much new wax. 204 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,639 I know you're the same, Orlando. So technically this doesn't 205 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,080 directly affect me. But as someone who's been in the 206 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,960 hobby a long time and a content creator and a writer, right, 207 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,440 we have to I kind of like and enjoy talking 208 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,600 about current topics. 209 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 3: But yeah, go ahead, sorry person, that wasn't marketing to 210 00:12:40,159 --> 00:12:44,120 my life. You know, if a marketing tactic works, you 211 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,600 will continue that until it stops working. And what they're 212 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,120 gonna do now is every product that comes out the hit, 213 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,320 the big hit is gonna have a bounty. You can 214 00:12:53,399 --> 00:12:56,039 see it already happening. And it's just gonna happen with 215 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,919 all the products fanatics and tops are gonna come out with, 216 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,279 you know, because what they want they want people to 217 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,679 hurry up, buy it, quickly, open the packs, open the 218 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,000 box as fast as you can so we can get 219 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,399 another product out there. You know, because once they put 220 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,200 a new product out, that old product becomes stale. So 221 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,279 they want to open those packs as fast as possible. 222 00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:18,000 That's why breaking has become so big, and it's part 223 00:13:18,039 --> 00:13:20,759 of their whole marketing plan, and they're going to continue. 224 00:13:20,879 --> 00:13:23,559 Every single product that comes out the big hit is 225 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,200 going to have a bounty. Believe, whether it's golden, whoever 226 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,080 it is, blowout, I'm going to put a bounty on 227 00:13:29,159 --> 00:13:32,440 that stuff from now on until the until we the 228 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,039 consumer kind of gets tired of it and says, hey, 229 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,799 I'm not going to go for those bounties anymore, man. 230 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: I mean, where were these bounties when I was opening 231 00:13:40,399 --> 00:13:43,440 Triple Play back in the day. That's what I want 232 00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:45,879 to know. I could have sold my manly for two 233 00:13:45,919 --> 00:13:51,039 bucks on a bounty, but obviously I can't. The other thing, 234 00:13:51,639 --> 00:13:55,000 And I'm sure it's been discussed, not on this particular show, 235 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:56,879 but you know, I'm sure you heard about the cat 236 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,360 scan deal. I'm not an expert on it, but you know, uh, 237 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,200 there reports that certain products like your Flawless National Treasures, 238 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,600 with a cat scan you can see what kind of 239 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,600 hits are in there without opening it, right, and now 240 00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:14,919 when you factor the bounties, right, I mean that's this 241 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,919 is just a you know, number one, that's illegal to 242 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:23,720 do that. Obviously, I don't condone that. I don't think 243 00:14:23,759 --> 00:14:26,279 there's a way to tell. What I like to see 244 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,679 is these companies Light Tops, Panini, although Panini's gonna be 245 00:14:30,679 --> 00:14:35,600 losing their licensing here shortly Orlando. With this cat scan issue, 246 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,720 which we're kind of segueing in off of this, is 247 00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:42,200 make these products where that cat scan can't do any 248 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,320 especially if there's gonna be these bounties. And even without 249 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,039 the bounties, a product like Wlawless or National Treasures is 250 00:14:50,039 --> 00:14:53,840 a very expensive product. Right Do I want to store? 251 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,039 Do I want to go to my store and pluck 252 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,919 down four or five figures with the chance that they 253 00:15:00,159 --> 00:15:03,559 already ran after a cat scan machine and know that 254 00:15:03,559 --> 00:15:07,399 that box is not that great in relative activity to 255 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:08,720 some of the others they scan. 256 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 3: You know, they got to do is put like a 257 00:15:10,879 --> 00:15:13,879 foil on top and bottom, you know, around all the products. 258 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm there's gonna be I'm sure there's a way. 259 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,720 You know, someone said lead, but leads is gonna be 260 00:15:20,799 --> 00:15:24,879 expensive and heavy. But there's got to be another way there. 261 00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 3: If there's some type of foil or something they can 262 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,080 put there so the cat scan kind of can't go 263 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,559 through it. There has to be a way to do 264 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,720 it there. If they don't have problem, that's gonna be, 265 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,279 that's gonna hurt their sales because who's gonna want to 266 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,720 buy boxes that could be especially on eBay, you know 267 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,279 that's where they're gonna scan them and they'll put them 268 00:15:43,279 --> 00:15:43,759 on eBay. 269 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt. Uh. And and the other thing too 270 00:15:47,919 --> 00:15:51,000 is again going back. I don't want and I don't 271 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,759 want to pick up just tops. I don't want any 272 00:15:52,799 --> 00:15:56,919 card manufacture involved in the bounty itself. Let the bounties 273 00:15:57,039 --> 00:15:59,440 fall where they're gonna fall. Let the people who are 274 00:15:59,799 --> 00:16:03,679 going to offer that money, you know. You know, Chris 275 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,519 talked about some of the legal ramifications Orlando. What are 276 00:16:07,559 --> 00:16:10,480 the legal ramifications. I don't know if there are any. 277 00:16:10,519 --> 00:16:13,360 I don't know if we have any lawyers. What if 278 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,559 I offered a million dollars, right, what are you. 279 00:16:16,519 --> 00:16:19,799 Speaker 3: Going to sue for? I mean, that's what well. 280 00:16:19,679 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: I just took a long contract I just took. But 281 00:16:23,399 --> 00:16:26,200 there is there are some laws where if you if 282 00:16:27,039 --> 00:16:29,159 let me give me a scenario, I offer a million 283 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,200 dollars for a card whatever, it doesn't matter. I said, 284 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,720 you know card X, Oleana, you get card X, however, 285 00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:39,320 you get it, you open something, pull it, you acquire it, 286 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,240 and you say, okay, John, here it is. I want 287 00:16:42,279 --> 00:16:46,279 my million dollars. And then I say to you, hey, no, 288 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,519 I'm not paying it now. Right. You know there's some 289 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,679 legals ground there too, with with verbal contracts and verbal 290 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,480 when you put that out there. Let's even change that scenario. 291 00:16:59,559 --> 00:17:03,440 You don't you know I'm paying a million dollars. You know, 292 00:17:03,879 --> 00:17:07,200 the person who got it, and they're not aware of 293 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,559 the bounty. And you say to them, hey, I'll give 294 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,240 you four hundred grand and they say, oh, man, all right, 295 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,839 you paid a four hundred grand with the premise. Now 296 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:18,440 I'm going to turn around and sell this to John. 297 00:17:18,519 --> 00:17:21,440 He's offering a million dollars. And then I say to you, 298 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,960 you know what, I changed my mind. And now technically 299 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,799 you're out, you know, I mean out in their quotes, right, 300 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,240 four hundred K. You know there's some legal yeah, just 301 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,839 Chris Wall maybe what Chris was touching on, I know 302 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,240 he's not screening at. 303 00:17:38,839 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 3: I would see John Ware. There's some legal issues if 304 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,039 they don't pay the bounty. But if you know, if 305 00:17:45,079 --> 00:17:47,279 I go and buy a buy a card from you 306 00:17:47,759 --> 00:17:50,759 and sell it for twice the price because you gave 307 00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:53,400 me a better, you know, a deal you didn't know 308 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,720 the full value, there's nothing you can do on that. 309 00:17:56,039 --> 00:17:59,440 But as far as if somebody does not pay the bounty, 310 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:01,880 I don't think there's anything you can do because there's 311 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,559 no legal writing. It's just verbal there. 312 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, but there is. Again I'm not a lawyer, but. 313 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 3: I'm just sense I guess. 314 00:18:10,319 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a verbal contract where if you put 315 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,960 out there like competence, I'm going to do this for this, 316 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,759 and then you don't live up to that, somebody Again, 317 00:18:20,839 --> 00:18:23,880 you get into a courtroom, right, it's you can win, 318 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,240 you can lose. But I think you have a case. 319 00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:29,839 I think there's some legal precedent that if you offer 320 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:35,920 in a sense of service or monetary payment for specific 321 00:18:36,039 --> 00:18:38,720 item and that person has the item, and plans to 322 00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:41,599 deliver it, and then you sort of reneg on that. 323 00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:44,480 I think there's some legal record. 324 00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:47,559 Speaker 3: Now and if you're a blowout site there at the 325 00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:51,640 headline also has to be legally binding because you're physically 326 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:52,640 putting it out there. 327 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, and here's the thing, like I 328 00:18:56,839 --> 00:18:59,400 don't have a million dollars, right, but what if I 329 00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:03,240 just said, hey, Nate Burns, right, I'm gonna I'm gonna 330 00:19:03,279 --> 00:19:05,640 raise your dollar and I'm gonna be a million and 331 00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:10,240 one for that, uh you know, uh, like it's just 332 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,160 something you know, Mike Petty and who's always great with 333 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,400 the common so he's gonna stall start a bounty channel. 334 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,039 But that's where we're you know, it's gonna be competitive 335 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,559 on on a bounty on you know, with bounties, like 336 00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:27,319 people are gonna you know, and maybe it even created 337 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:31,480 some friction and animosity and and you know remorse or 338 00:19:31,839 --> 00:19:34,200 you know, someone sells it for a bounty and someone 339 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,680 else says, hey, you know I would have gave that, 340 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,039 or you didn't see it. It's just such a new, 341 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,480 you know, a fairly new part of the hobby of 342 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,960 terrain like we've never seen before. And again, you know, who. 343 00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:51,599 Speaker 3: Knew, John, who who were gonna be a million dollar 344 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,799 cards ont a pack? You know before when we pulled 345 00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:58,119 cards even you know who, they weren't worth that much money. 346 00:19:58,319 --> 00:20:01,920 You're not talking, you know, six figure cards. And I 347 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,599 think that is what's driving all this bounty stuff. Is 348 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,960 it good or bad for the hobby? I think it's 349 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,200 good bad. You know, that's the way I'm looking at it. 350 00:20:11,279 --> 00:20:11,799 It's good. 351 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: I agree, I agree. 352 00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 3: I build them, yeah, the way that it's building the 353 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,079 hot if you can. 354 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,279 Speaker 1: And listen, I always look at the kids and I 355 00:20:21,559 --> 00:20:24,240 you know, I've been told like sometimes you do that 356 00:20:24,319 --> 00:20:26,759 too much, John, But I started as a seven year 357 00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:29,079 old kid, you know whatever. You're a kid and you 358 00:20:29,279 --> 00:20:32,000 like spend your whole you know, you spend one hundred 359 00:20:32,079 --> 00:20:35,200 bucks going back to this tops now right to hey, 360 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,400 maybe I'll get this one on one and I'll sell 361 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,359 it for a million bucks, right you? And that's how 362 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,599 kids minds were, That's how a dope minds work. Right. 363 00:20:43,839 --> 00:20:46,799 So you're that kid who spends as whole hundred dollars 364 00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:49,599 he saved up for who knows how long? You get 365 00:20:49,599 --> 00:20:52,599 your tops now cards, you rip them open. That one 366 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,400 on one's not in there and it becomes sort of 367 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,880 a bad experience, right. You feel like it's like opening 368 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,799 up the Willie Wakap bar right looking for the golden 369 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,519 ticket and it's not in there, and all you're left 370 00:21:05,559 --> 00:21:08,599 with is like, hey, I'm just a bunch of chocolate. Right. 371 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 3: Well, overall, that's my problem with boxesn't breaking. I mean, 372 00:21:12,319 --> 00:21:14,400 you know, a kid will spend a couple hundred dollars 373 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,400 on a box lucky if they pull thirty dollars with 374 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,079 the cards. So I think overall that's that's the bigger problem. 375 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,200 I think with the hobby. I think that if you 376 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,759 could get a decent return by opening boxes, even if 377 00:21:27,799 --> 00:21:30,039 you lose half your money, but most of the time 378 00:21:30,079 --> 00:21:31,720 you lose eighty percent of it. 379 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:32,319 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. 380 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,519 Speaker 3: I think if they would put more hits in the 381 00:21:34,599 --> 00:21:37,079 products and make it a little bit easier to get 382 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,759 hits or better better buy, I think that would help 383 00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:42,599 the hobby and help the kids. But you know what, 384 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,640 they're gonna produce more, They're gonna print more as much 385 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,240 as they can. Unfortunately, I think we're going down the 386 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:49,759 junk wax era route. 387 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean, you know it's I looked, you know, 388 00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:56,400 I don't open that much wax anymore, if at all. 389 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,920 I mean I do dabble a little bit, but nothing 390 00:21:59,079 --> 00:22:02,240 like I used to. So again it doesn't affect. But 391 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,759 here's the other thing with the bounties too. We've heard reports, right, 392 00:22:06,799 --> 00:22:11,519 and allegations that Tops is feeding hot boxes to breakers 393 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,279 and certain people that they're aware of. Now, obviously they've 394 00:22:15,279 --> 00:22:21,240 denied this Orlando, they're not saying they know. They're like, yeah, 395 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,119 it's all. But let's let's just operate on the hypothetical 396 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,640 that that that is true, that they do know right now, 397 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,000 this bounties, how do we know they're not feeding uh 398 00:22:32,079 --> 00:22:36,200 you know, backyard breaks or David Adams a box that 399 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,440 they know that they bounty cards in, so you know, 400 00:22:40,599 --> 00:22:44,400 the bounties that that person can reap the rewards, right, 401 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,440 and what if they buy a lot from Tops, like, hey, 402 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,799 you spend one hundreds of thousand dollars with us. Here, 403 00:22:50,839 --> 00:22:53,480 we're gonna we're gonna you know, you scratched our back, 404 00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:56,559 We're gonna scratch yours. It's in here, sell it for 405 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,039 the bounty and boom, you're you're golden, right. 406 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,799 Speaker 3: Uh yeah, And that that comes in getting you believe 407 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,920 that you know, if you want to go that far. 408 00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:08,319 I mean, some people believe that they're giving boxes to 409 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,160 some certain celebrities or or baseball players to pull out 410 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,000 their own cards, signed cards, things like that. Who knows what. 411 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,960 I'm just thinking that they want to pull the big 412 00:23:19,079 --> 00:23:22,400 hits from their fanatics. Breaker, you know, That's what I'm thinking. 413 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,480 And uh, you know that's a concern if they're doing 414 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,480 any of that. But you can't prove that. How are 415 00:23:27,519 --> 00:23:30,200 you going to ever prove something like that? Yeah, I 416 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:30,640 don't know. 417 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: We're kind of yeah, all right, hey, uh you know, Chris, 418 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,839 we're kind of we're coming to the tail end of 419 00:23:43,839 --> 00:23:48,640 this particular topic and any anything. You know, I talked 420 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,160 about the legal you mentioned the legal HEAs I brought 421 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,519 up while you were gone. Let's say I offer a 422 00:23:54,519 --> 00:23:59,240 million dollar bounty. You you acquire the card, pull the card, however, 423 00:23:59,279 --> 00:24:01,920 you have pain, and you say, okay, John, I'm ready 424 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,519 for my million dollars. Here's the card you're paying a 425 00:24:04,519 --> 00:24:08,039 million dollars for. And then I say, oh, never mind, 426 00:24:08,079 --> 00:24:11,279 I changed my mind. You know there's some legal there, 427 00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:16,519 there's you know, there's that's fraud. Yeah, So I think 428 00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:20,519 when you advertise that you're paid especially for a particular card. 429 00:24:20,799 --> 00:24:23,599 If you just say, hey, I'm paying one thousand dollars 430 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,880 for you know, a really decent looking Sandy Kofax rookie. 431 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: You know, that's one that that's different. Though we're talking 432 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,799 I'm talking about new cards, right, yeah, new packs, new products. 433 00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:42,119 Where you have to spend money to buy a pack 434 00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:47,680 or a card off a website and someone else puts 435 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,519 a bounty out and that someone else has a direct 436 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,119 relationship with the company that issued it. 437 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 3: That's a problem. 438 00:24:56,519 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 2: That's a problem. And another problem is and this is 439 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,440 kind of tangentially related to. 440 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:04,079 Speaker 1: This, you know. 441 00:25:04,319 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 2: I read the legalese on the back of this TOPS 442 00:25:07,599 --> 00:25:11,319 complete set, and if you look at Tops's social media 443 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,200 accounts lately, it's just look at this one of one 444 00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:18,480 that was just pulled. Look at Ellie d la Cruz. 445 00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:21,000 He didn't know how much his card was worth. But 446 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,720 you could pull a half a million dollar card too. 447 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,519 And they're kind of skating on that thin ice of 448 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,519 you know, saying that your cards won't hold any value, 449 00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:35,759 but then using the value of those cards to promote 450 00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:39,000 your product. I don't think that's right. 451 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, talking out of both side your mouth. 452 00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I agree with that. 453 00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 2: And it's telling that all of this seems to have 454 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:53,440 started to happen when a certain guy in Jacksonville with 455 00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:56,559 a white party every fourth of July got involved in 456 00:25:56,599 --> 00:25:57,279 the hobby. 457 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's saying, well, he's a master market tier. Let's 458 00:26:01,759 --> 00:26:04,440 give credit where credit is due. I'm not a huge 459 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,079 fan of the person, but he's smart, he knows what 460 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,160 he's doing, and he's marketing. 461 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,799 Speaker 3: He's, like I said before, brilliant mark not only marketing 462 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,839 the product, but he markets himself with those white parties 463 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:18,640 and things like that. 464 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, guys, let's move on to our next topic, 465 00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:26,160 which you know is not contro bro I mean maybe 466 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:31,359 a little bit. Right backdating products COVID happened, stuff was delayed, 467 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:37,599 shipping containers were stuck on vessels, and shipping units not 468 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:40,920 to be delivered. So, for example, Upper Deck the Cup, 469 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,880 one of their high end upper decks, high end hockey 470 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:49,000 releases recently just came out. But the twenty twenty two splash, 471 00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:53,759 twenty twenty three Upper Deck the Cup, and where we're 472 00:26:53,799 --> 00:26:57,200 just you know, you know, three months away from twenty 473 00:26:57,279 --> 00:27:01,039 twenty five, and we have a twenty twenty two twenty 474 00:27:01,079 --> 00:27:05,039 three product coming out. It's just weird to me that 475 00:27:05,039 --> 00:27:08,079 that could even happen. I get it. They're not gonna 476 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,319 not do it, guys, because there's too much they'd lose 477 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,640 too much money they paid for these licensing. They're not 478 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,279 gonna not release a Very rarely they do sometimes cancel 479 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,079 a product, but it's pretty rare. It's just weird that 480 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,359 you're almost in twenty twenty five and you could be 481 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,680 potentially opening the box that's new that says twenty twenty 482 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,160 two to twenty three on it. Well, you know, thoughts 483 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:33,599 on that. 484 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,079 Speaker 3: Poor what they won't oh goodhead, good, right, Well, you 485 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:44,319 know again, poor planning, not having the printing time beforehand, 486 00:27:44,599 --> 00:27:47,720 things like that. You know, when you're in the printing business, 487 00:27:47,839 --> 00:27:51,200 it takes a lot and effort pull a product out, 488 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,720 design work, to get everything done and all of that. 489 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,160 That takes months and months and months just to get 490 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,319 it all done, get all every card done, and get 491 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,640 it ready to go to press, and then you don't 492 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,680 have printing capacity to do it. I mean, that's what 493 00:28:05,799 --> 00:28:08,920 the issue really comes down to. Whether it's that Fanatics 494 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,799 has controlled the printing because there's only a few printers 495 00:28:11,799 --> 00:28:15,920 in this country that can print the cards. You know, 496 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,279 it's not like you can just find a new printer. 497 00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:23,759 And these are, you know, multi million dollar printer printing plants. 498 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,720 So you I mean, as a card manufacturer, if you 499 00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:31,519 don't have that printing time locked in, whether you need 500 00:28:31,559 --> 00:28:34,079 two weeks or a month to print that product, if 501 00:28:34,079 --> 00:28:36,599 you don't have that ahead of time, I mean, you know, 502 00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:39,200 it's just ridiculous that you go through all that work 503 00:28:39,319 --> 00:28:41,000 to get it done and then all of a sudden 504 00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:43,400 it's ready to print. You gotta wait. You can't print it. 505 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,160 There's other products, newer product being printed ahead of your product. Now, 506 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,079 whether that's something that Fanatics has done to hurt them 507 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,960 or whatever, I don't know. It could be, but I 508 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,400 think it's just very poor management on their part not 509 00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:02,200 make make sure that product comes to market on time. 510 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,519 I mean, that's your job. Get the product done and 511 00:29:05,559 --> 00:29:08,200 to market on time. And if you can't do it, 512 00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:13,640 forget it. It's like having a gallon of milk that's outdated. Ridiculous. 513 00:29:13,799 --> 00:29:15,079 That's that's my rant on that. 514 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I understand that upper Deck the cup is 515 00:29:19,359 --> 00:29:24,000 a product that takes a very very, very very long 516 00:29:24,079 --> 00:29:28,079 time for them to develop, and I understand that they're 517 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,759 kind of they're still backdated on that due to COVID 518 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:38,359 from a year from years ago. But sometimes you just 519 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,400 got to bite the bullet and just say we're not 520 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,799 going to release the Cup this year, or this year's 521 00:29:44,839 --> 00:29:48,519 Cup is actually going to be dated twenty twenty four, 522 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,799 twenty five, yeah, and skip a year. 523 00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:52,519 Speaker 1: Yeah. 524 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 2: The reason why I brought this issue up is because 525 00:29:57,759 --> 00:30:02,119 in the last month or so, Tops has released two 526 00:30:02,119 --> 00:30:07,839 football products, Composite and Motif. I think Motif comes out 527 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,680 this week or may have been already, I don't know. 528 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,039 Neither one is licensed by the NFL, and neither one 529 00:30:16,119 --> 00:30:20,279 is licensed by the Players Association, although they did sign 530 00:30:20,359 --> 00:30:25,880 those four quarterbacks from last year's draft class CJ. Anthony 531 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,839 richardson those guys. And here we are, Week one of 532 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,240 the NFL season is in the books, and they have 533 00:30:32,359 --> 00:30:36,799 the audacity to call this a twenty twenty three product. 534 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,079 I mean, even if this were fully licensed, you're not 535 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,160 fooling anybody, dude, Just call it a twenty twenty four product. 536 00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, the season and a rookie logo on it in 537 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,440 his he's in what. 538 00:30:49,759 --> 00:30:53,079 Speaker 2: Which is not? Nobody's going to take that card as 539 00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:57,440 seriously as or should oh and Pennin he's also releasing 540 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,920 twenty twenty three football around. I think they just really select. 541 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,119 Speaker 1: Yeah football, Like many in the chat room are pointing 542 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,359 out a year behind, A year behind. I get, but 543 00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:14,240 you know, like we're really in the obviously the post COVID. 544 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,640 I know people are still getting it, but we're not 545 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,759 in the pandemic portion. 546 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 3: You know. 547 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: I'd like to see again. It's gonna cost some money, 548 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,279 but they're making plenty of money, right. I like to 549 00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:28,759 see these car manufacturers be like like Orlando kind of 550 00:31:28,839 --> 00:31:31,799 hinted at it, right, have their own printing facilities and 551 00:31:31,839 --> 00:31:35,880 be directly responsible for getting it done right. Put the 552 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,400 owners back on the company themselves rather than a third 553 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,920 party printing company. You know, these printing companies which is 554 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:48,359 on is printing rival company stuff sometimes probably at the 555 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,039 same time. We're in different ships, right, and Pinia are 556 00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:58,039 being printed in the same four walls. Hey, that's crazy 557 00:31:58,119 --> 00:32:01,279 to me. And like you said, there's there's reports that 558 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,160 Fanatics has has finagled stuff and screwed Panini for lack 559 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,519 of a better way of saying it, right, but they've 560 00:32:09,559 --> 00:32:13,400 had to cancel a football product three four times because 561 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,559 they can't get it to press that if you're printing 562 00:32:16,599 --> 00:32:20,839 your own products, that should that wouldn't happen or shouldn't happen. Uh. 563 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,160 You know again that would be putting investing money into 564 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,160 a plant, a building. Uh. But you're they're also paying 565 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,920 that company who knows how much, probably handsomely so Bill Garrol. 566 00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:38,680 You know, especially in Fanatics case. Many they have the cash. 567 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 3: That's the problem. That Fanatics had cash. And so if 568 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,279 Fanatics printers say, hey, we'll give you thirty more to 569 00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:49,559 the side and prints first. 570 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:53,279 Speaker 2: Didn't Fanatics just buy that printing press outside of Dallas 571 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:53,799 got did? 572 00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 3: I know that they were, they were trying to buy it, 573 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,480 but I'm not sure they actually bought it it. I 574 00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:01,799 know they made a one offer, but maybe we could 575 00:33:01,839 --> 00:33:03,319 look that up and figure that out. 576 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,839 Speaker 1: I hope. I hope Fanatics winds up getting their own printing, 577 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,079 full time printing facility. I know Panini's about to lose 578 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,519 a good percentage of their licensing. But then let them 579 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,960 do what they're gonna do with it where where there's 580 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,759 no conflict of interest. There with where both both companies 581 00:33:21,759 --> 00:33:24,720 and products are getting printed in the same facility. Right 582 00:33:24,759 --> 00:33:29,079 that old Limp should eliminate that. Let Pernini survive in 583 00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:33,920 its own small way with the nil and whatever products 584 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,480 you know that they're gonna be able to make. 585 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 3: I mean, is more of a international company and a 586 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,839 lot of soccer stuff out there. Maybe they could find 587 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,960 some printers out in Europe because they print a lot 588 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,519 of their stickers and all that stuff out there. 589 00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, but then that, you know, if it's a product 590 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,480 that's got going to come to the States, yeah, you know, 591 00:33:51,799 --> 00:33:54,519 and that's got to go oversea, and we all hear 592 00:33:54,599 --> 00:33:58,759 the Harvard stories about cargo ships kind of stuck or 593 00:33:58,839 --> 00:34:02,799 running in the bridges and Danny's hometown of Botemore and 594 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,680 that kort of thing. So yeah, it's crazy, you know. 595 00:34:06,759 --> 00:34:09,320 And with this cup, right, I think it was able 596 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,920 in Vegas made a comment right here, you got double 597 00:34:13,039 --> 00:34:16,079 rookie cards now to catch up. It's sort of an 598 00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:18,880 advantage and disadvantage, right, you kind of know ahead of 599 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:24,079 time what rookie performed well and what rookie didn't. And 600 00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:28,599 it's also a disadvantage because for a store right that 601 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,840 would have had that product maybe on time where they 602 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,239 could have sold some of those Rookie cards or prospects 603 00:34:34,559 --> 00:34:37,719 before they people kind of the verdict was in or 604 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,679 out on them right now, that chance maybe you know, 605 00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:46,199 not there like it would be on a normal time schedule. 606 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,880 Or maybe make a product, you know, Chris Chris said 607 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,079 about just just call it twenty twenty five. Maybe make 608 00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:56,840 it a bigger set. Yeah, maybe make the previous cards 609 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,320 almost like parallels or a subset of you can. 610 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,039 Speaker 3: Do series one and then or something like that. There's 611 00:35:03,079 --> 00:35:05,559 gotta be a way to figure that out. But to 612 00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:07,400 release a three year old product. 613 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, one year doesn't bother me too much. 614 00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:14,079 But when you're in almost twenty twenty five opening a 615 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,440 product that's labeled twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, and 616 00:35:18,519 --> 00:35:21,639 what's gonna happen now is where Wednesday twenty twenty three, 617 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,519 twenty four Cup come out? On the twenty four to 618 00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:28,039 twenty five Cup come out? Like how close together? Are 619 00:35:28,039 --> 00:35:30,960 they always gonna be? Like, you know, three years but 620 00:35:31,519 --> 00:35:34,280 two and a half years behind, Like where, you know, 621 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,400 when do we catch up and get products like we 622 00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:41,599 used to be accustomed to, right, And you know, so 623 00:35:42,199 --> 00:35:45,760 I don't know, not a big fan of backdaty, I 624 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,280 get why, but we're also a few years out from 625 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,679 that that those bad pandemic year and a half two years. 626 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, there shouldn't be any more delays. 627 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, this is a topic you brought to 628 00:36:00,599 --> 00:36:02,679 it's a hot button topic or no, but. 629 00:36:02,679 --> 00:36:04,039 Speaker 3: It's my topic. Okay. 630 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, grading viewed as a scam. We got 631 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,039 about twenty twenty five minutes level. We'll probably close with this. 632 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,559 I notice we'll get a lot of comments in the 633 00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:18,440 chat room. I'm a Bolk suburb for SGC. I buy 634 00:36:19,159 --> 00:36:22,840 SGC and PSA graded cards. I subb the PSA as 635 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,599 well as SGC. You know, in the nineties when I 636 00:36:26,599 --> 00:36:30,320 had my store, I thought grading was a money grab 637 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,920 and I didn't do it. It still is probably a 638 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,519 money grab. I don't think that maybe has changed, But 639 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,480 obviously I partake in it on both sides, right, as 640 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,519 a suburb, as a buyer of cards, as a seller 641 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,880 of graded cards, I buy row cards too. It's not 642 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,639 like it's just graded, you know. But you know, obviously 643 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:54,239 the grading itself is subjective. We've seen these companies, you know. 644 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,360 It seems like every few weeks something comes out. They 645 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,719 graded something as authentic that turns out not to be, 646 00:37:03,159 --> 00:37:07,960 or vice versa. You know, We've had people who say, hey, 647 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,840 I pulled this card out of a pack, and they're 648 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,639 saying it doesn't meet minimum size. It works kind of 649 00:37:12,679 --> 00:37:18,360 both ways. I had a third year Michael Jordan that 650 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,480 that I subbed probably two years ago, came back is 651 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,039 minimum size, not Matt. I know, I pulled it out 652 00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:28,639 of a pack. I sent it back, I took another flyer, 653 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,760 sent it back and it got graded and ate right right. 654 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:35,920 So that those are. 655 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 3: Those are my issues. I mean, I'm not necessarily saying 656 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,760 that it's a total scam. I think it's more of 657 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,360 a necessary evil. I'll call it a necessary because we 658 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,960 need grading. The problem is that we need to fix grading. 659 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,119 And and you know, when you have a card that 660 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,039 was recently it just happened this week and the star, 661 00:37:55,119 --> 00:37:56,920 it was one of the Star Rookie. It came out 662 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,639 on a Beckett authentic right. A guy buys in an 663 00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:02,880 authentic holder, submits it to PSA and it comes back 664 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,519 a seven. You know, and you had Greg for Midlife. 665 00:38:06,599 --> 00:38:09,719 Go submit some PSA cards and they all came out 666 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,519 different grades in the SGC than in PSA. So the 667 00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:18,320 issue I think is that grading company. They're the reason 668 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,840 they're not as consistent, because when a grader looks at 669 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,000 the card, they're looking at the card for two three minutes, 670 00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:25,280 not even that. In some cases, two minutes is gone. 671 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,559 It's over with, you know. So it's that one person's opinion. 672 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,920 And I've been to grading school. I've seen how they 673 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,480 grade the cards, and you just can't spend time on 674 00:38:35,599 --> 00:38:38,159 every single card, so you make a guess at it 675 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,679 and you move on. And the graders really, in my opinion, 676 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,280 need to have a minimum two people or three look 677 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,679 at the card. I mean, we're paying quite a bit 678 00:38:48,679 --> 00:38:51,639 of money PSA, especially some of the higher end cards. 679 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,599 You know, you may be paying hundreds of dollars to 680 00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:57,000 get a card graded, and an opinion from one guy 681 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,880 one greater. You know, I want three people to look 682 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,440 at that card. If they don't agree on the grade, 683 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,199 then get together and agree on the grade. You know. 684 00:39:05,639 --> 00:39:08,639 So whenever you can get a card and resubmit it 685 00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:11,119 and get a different grade on it, that's an issue 686 00:39:11,159 --> 00:39:14,440 in my opinion, you know. And you know that's why 687 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,440 I always say, you know, I'm looking for the card. 688 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,920 I'm buying the card, not the grade. For me. I 689 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,719 look for a card that looks like a sixth and 690 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,119 a four holder. Now that's the card I'm looking. But 691 00:39:24,679 --> 00:39:29,039 why don't these graders really grade themselves. Have a second 692 00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:32,199 person check that, double check it just in case you 693 00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:35,239 know it's authentic. Let me pass it over to this guy, Hey, 694 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,159 is this really an authentic card? Or can this be graded? 695 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,760 And they don't do that. Right Now, that's one person's opinion, 696 00:39:42,159 --> 00:39:44,480 and that's it. You resend it. You get in the 697 00:39:44,559 --> 00:39:47,599 second grader's opinion. So I think that's the issue as 698 00:39:47,599 --> 00:39:49,960 far as how I see it. Is it a scam? 699 00:39:50,159 --> 00:39:53,000 I mean, it's not necessarily a scam because they tell you, hey, 700 00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:56,960 it's an opinion. That's what grading is subjective. We as 701 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,400 the person that gets the cards that hey it's five 702 00:40:00,519 --> 00:40:02,440 and it's a five. It has to be a five 703 00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:05,039 because that's what the label said. But in many cases 704 00:40:05,079 --> 00:40:05,639 it may not be. 705 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, well here's go ahead, Chris. Well, I'm just gonna say, 706 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:15,760 you know, grating is is important for for authenticity to 707 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,880 authenticate when you get into the numerical grade itself. Like 708 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,280 you said, Orlando, it's subjective of that grater, right. I 709 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,480 will say this in a little bit of a defense 710 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,519 of the grading card companies in many cases more than 711 00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:33,079 one grader does look at the car. Not every not 712 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,599 all the time. I'm not gonna say that as a 713 00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:39,519 blanket statement, but probably of cards of significance, whatever you 714 00:40:39,559 --> 00:40:39,960 want to. 715 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 3: Do, yeah, IMA's very high. Val will have to look 716 00:40:43,039 --> 00:40:46,760 at it in many cases. But the regular cards, one 717 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:47,599 person will look at that. 718 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you're at the mercy of that that 719 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,079 you know, he or she that day of what they 720 00:40:53,159 --> 00:40:55,840 believe that that card is. Maybe what you're saying, I 721 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,639 don't want to put words in your mouth to Orlando. 722 00:40:58,159 --> 00:41:01,239 You almost want like a guaranteed that more than one 723 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,320 person is looking at it and then come to a 724 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,079 consensus grade, almost like a jury. Let's keep doing Verdon. 725 00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 3: I want to get my money's worth, you know. I 726 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,000 want someone to really get a good look at that card, 727 00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:14,320 not a not a one two minute look. I want 728 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,840 somebody or a couple people, two three people were like, 729 00:41:17,159 --> 00:41:19,039 you know, pass it down and say, hey, give this 730 00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:21,159 one a grade, give us one of grade, gives the grade. 731 00:41:21,679 --> 00:41:23,719 Three people do it. They can do it in five minutes. 732 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,239 Just pass that card down the row. You know, because 733 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,519 when I went to that grading school, you sit on 734 00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:30,960 a big long table and they're all grading right there. 735 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,199 Pass the card down. Hey, you graded, you grated, you graded, 736 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,400 Check the notes and come up with a consensus. You know, 737 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,239 one grades of the four, one grades of the six, 738 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,519 one grades of the five. Okay, it's like a five. 739 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 1: I just I want to comment. I want to comment 740 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,599 five five ball who I love. He's a good guy. 741 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,840 He speaks his mind. He doesn't mince words. That's a 742 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,639 good thing most of the time. He's got the first 743 00:41:53,679 --> 00:41:57,199 part right right. SGC sponsor Sports Cardination and old sponsor 744 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:01,639 Hobby Hotline, the sponsor car Matches. If you listen to 745 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,719 my show, you've you've heard me on multiple occasions say 746 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,519 not great things sometimes about SGC, to the point where 747 00:42:10,039 --> 00:42:12,559 Peter's called me up and we've had a conversation. So 748 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,760 I will speak my mind. You know that card I 749 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:22,039 talked about that Jordan was SGC. I talked about it 750 00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:25,440 on my show. I've been critical of them at different 751 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,480 times on my show. I don't want to make the 752 00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:30,480 whole rest of the episode. I just wanted to comment 753 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,840 to that comment that I like SGC, so you know, 754 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,880 but do everything they do is right? No, And I've 755 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,079 never said as such. And I've went on the air 756 00:42:41,639 --> 00:42:43,920 and kind of I don't want to say put them 757 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,760 on blast, but have been critical of them on the air. 758 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:51,320 So I don't you know that that sponsorship doesn't preclude 759 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,760 me from my opinion is where I'm going, and I've 760 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,760 given it on more than one occasion, and it's not 761 00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,800 all roses and daisies all the time. 762 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I agree, and I prefer us they're 763 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,840 more accurate. You know. One of the problems I think, 764 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:12,280 I say is during the COVID, they hired so many greaters, 765 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,639 I mean hundreds and hundreds of greaters, and those graders, 766 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,159 you know, they're learning on the job. That's where you 767 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,760 have a lot of issues sometimes. And I think SGC 768 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,840 has a lot more veteran graders, even though they did 769 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,880 hire a lot of graters, but they just don't have 770 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,239 as many, and they do have a lot more veteran greaters, 771 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,199 so I think they're a little more accurate. I mean, look, 772 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,480 I agree with the grades most of the time, but 773 00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:33,320 every once in a while you get a card and 774 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,239 you look at it, said, how the hell did they 775 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,840 give this this grade? You know, and those are the 776 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,119 ones you'll I'll resubmit, and yeah, you'll get a better 777 00:43:41,159 --> 00:43:42,440 grade in many instances. 778 00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:44,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, And how many times have we seen something great 779 00:43:44,599 --> 00:43:47,400 at a ten and you look at the card, even 780 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,639 in a picture, not even in person, and you see 781 00:43:49,639 --> 00:43:53,119 a corner like, no, way, that's a ten? Right? Sometimes 782 00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:55,840 you get card back, right if you're great, or you 783 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:57,800 buy a card, you don't even have to get it back, 784 00:43:58,159 --> 00:44:01,480 and it's moving in the case right here, Yeah, see 785 00:44:01,519 --> 00:44:03,639 it right? So what if that's a ten and you 786 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,360 that thing gets shaken and travel in the corner gets right? 787 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,039 That I don't like, like get that way that card 788 00:44:10,079 --> 00:44:13,360 doesn't move once it's in case, right, That's that's an issue. 789 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 3: Well, that's another issue that need to fix. So they 790 00:44:16,559 --> 00:44:18,960 do that a lot, and they put things in some 791 00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:21,800 holders that are sometimes bigger than they need to be, 792 00:44:22,039 --> 00:44:24,960 and you know, I just think they they all need 793 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,159 all of them. SUC does the same thing. They'll put 794 00:44:27,159 --> 00:44:30,400 your card in a huge holder. Sometimes they just need 795 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,679 to be consistent. You know. Sometimes you'll get the same card, 796 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,599 maybe it's a little oversized, but the same card in 797 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,159 different size holder. And that's crazy too. But I think, 798 00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:43,920 you know, like I said, de grading, you know, I 799 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,480 think that's really the way that the market has been developed. 800 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,519 At this point, the only way you can really get 801 00:44:49,519 --> 00:44:52,000 your money out of selling a card is to have 802 00:44:52,039 --> 00:44:54,440 a grade on it, because the raw you're never going 803 00:44:54,519 --> 00:44:57,960 to get, you know, the really priced that you should get. 804 00:44:58,159 --> 00:45:03,039 Speaker 1: Most comment a comment from Dylan. There's a CT scanning 805 00:45:03,119 --> 00:45:07,440 for grading. Dylan mentions AI. You'd like to see AI 806 00:45:07,519 --> 00:45:12,559 and take the subjective nature out. I'm not. I don't think. Well, 807 00:45:12,599 --> 00:45:15,559 here's what I'll say. I don't want one hundred percent AI. 808 00:45:15,639 --> 00:45:15,880 Speaker 3: I don't. 809 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,400 Speaker 1: I'm not against I'm not against AI, but I still 810 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,440 want the human element involved in that in some capacity 811 00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:27,760 because we all know computers glitch as well. Right, that's 812 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,480 not fool proof as well. I gotta I got a 813 00:45:30,559 --> 00:45:34,320 chromebook I use at work that I want to throw 814 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,599 to the window sometimes because of the glitches. Right, it's 815 00:45:37,639 --> 00:45:41,079 not the end all a all end all be all right? 816 00:45:41,559 --> 00:45:44,880 Am I opposed to AI. It's already being used. Most 817 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,800 of the companies are using AI when you send your 818 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,960 cards in to identify them. So it's already. What Dylan 819 00:45:52,039 --> 00:45:54,000 is saying and many others are saying, is they want 820 00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:57,639 the AI to actually grade the card itself. I'm not 821 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,280 opposed to that, but I still want, you know, how 822 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,920 you get your underwear and it says inspected by inspector 823 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,559 number twelve. I don't care if AI does the initial grade. 824 00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:11,079 I still want a human to kind of sign off, 825 00:46:11,199 --> 00:46:13,880 yes it's an eight, Yes it's a seven, Yes it's 826 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:19,039 a ten, and just verify the computer's work. And so 827 00:46:19,199 --> 00:46:21,159 I don't want it to be one hundred percent AI, 828 00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:26,239 but if it's, if it's both working in unison or together, 829 00:46:27,079 --> 00:46:29,480 I'm not opposed to that, And that might be the answer. 830 00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:30,079 I don't know. 831 00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:32,760 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, they're doing it right now, even PSA. 832 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,920 They bought that company, gentleman, and they do some AI 833 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,840 before the cards goes to the grade, they kind of 834 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,559 scan it and they see some of the defects on it, 835 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,719 but again the human eye, they pass it on somebody 836 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,800 else and then they look at it again because even 837 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,559 though it has certain defects, I appeal still kind of 838 00:46:52,559 --> 00:46:54,360 the main thing when you're dealing with the grade and 839 00:46:54,559 --> 00:46:57,199 the human can determine that. The problem with the AI 840 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,000 complete AI is that for new cards. Fine, you know 841 00:47:01,079 --> 00:47:02,840 they can do it, just like TAG is doing it 842 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,360 right now. But you know, when you talk to Jeremy 843 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,039 Lee and you ask them how come they can't do 844 00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:10,679 the vintage. It's a whole new animal because every vintage 845 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,159 card is so unique, everyone is different than all the 846 00:47:14,199 --> 00:47:17,800 other ones, and the machine just has to learn how 847 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,000 to grade those. And it's very, very difficult to teach 848 00:47:21,039 --> 00:47:23,920 something like that versus a brand new card out of 849 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,800 the pack that you know, they may have a scratch 850 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,800 on it, but they don't have like, you know, I 851 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,440 don't know whatever little minor things that you know, all 852 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:32,599 the stuff that the old cards have. 853 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, what you might see with tag like they're trying 854 00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,719 to get this AI thing going, you know what aventure 855 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:43,360 might happen. You might see one of these bigger companies PSA, SGC, 856 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,599 you know, someone else, CG, you know, eventually buy them 857 00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:51,920 and try to integrate some of what they've done. Right, Potentially, 858 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,480 that might be something you see down the line. Chrissy, 859 00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:59,559 I haven't waited in yet on this. Let's let's get 860 00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:01,079 let's hear from you here. 861 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we all need to understand that, yes, 862 00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:10,440 grading is subjective, not objective. You're paying for a man's opinion. 863 00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:15,719 I do believe that that's the way the way Beckett 864 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,639 grades cards is that they're graded by two different people, 865 00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:21,679 and if there is a discrepancy between the two, it 866 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,960 goes to a senior grader to break the tie. So 867 00:48:25,559 --> 00:48:27,719 I don't know if they do that anymore, but that 868 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,239 they used to. What else did I want to say? Yeah, 869 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,119 it's if you're going to send the same card to 870 00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,719 a company and they grade it authentic but don't give 871 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,159 it a number, and then you send it to someone 872 00:48:42,199 --> 00:48:44,679 else and they do grade it. You have to remember 873 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:49,360 these two. All the different grading companies have different rubrics 874 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,719 for their grading. So a card that may grade a 875 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,679 seven with one company may grade a six and a 876 00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:58,559 half with another. 877 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,559 Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's gonna change. Really, the only way that'll 878 00:49:02,679 --> 00:49:07,880 change is again with that AI, Chris, right, and even with. 879 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,800 Speaker 2: The AI, I mean it all depends on each company's. 880 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:12,760 Speaker 3: Room rate exactly. 881 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:13,159 Speaker 1: Yeah. 882 00:49:13,199 --> 00:49:17,159 Speaker 2: I mean a card that's off center, I don't know, 883 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,000 fifty five forty five might be eligible for a ten 884 00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:24,000 with one company, but might only get a nine and 885 00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:29,960 a half with another. So unless the grades becomes standardized, 886 00:49:30,039 --> 00:49:33,119 I think you're gonna have that kind of problem. Yeah, 887 00:49:33,159 --> 00:49:35,280 the grade, which I don't ever see happening. 888 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's completely right. I mean every company has different 889 00:49:39,159 --> 00:49:43,400 grading scales. Different grading texts, you know, and as you know, 890 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,599 SGC is a little bit more tolerant as far as 891 00:49:46,679 --> 00:49:49,840 the size of the vintage cards. You know, they know 892 00:49:50,079 --> 00:49:52,639 that back in the fifties and sixties, some of the 893 00:49:52,679 --> 00:49:55,239 cards were cut a little short, you know, so they 894 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,239 will will grade some that PSA will say no, we won't, uh. 895 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,199 And the same with centering, you know, they're a little 896 00:50:02,199 --> 00:50:05,360 more PSA actually is a little bit more off on centering. 897 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:10,199 Sometimes they'll give a seven that is pretty off centered. 898 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,920 So you know, each one has a different tolerance. And yeah, 899 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,719 you're right, they don't all grade the same and the 900 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:21,119 same scales. I mean, basically yes, but there's always nuances 901 00:50:21,159 --> 00:50:22,719 between all the companies. 902 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why Beckett's doing 903 00:50:25,679 --> 00:50:29,480 so poorly right now is because their standard for a 904 00:50:29,639 --> 00:50:34,719 ten is really high. So a lot of the new 905 00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,599 collectors that have come in, they've been told you got 906 00:50:38,599 --> 00:50:41,360 to get a ten. It's a lot tougher to get 907 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,159 a ten from BGS than it is from PSA, which 908 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,880 doesn't even have a nine and a half grade. And 909 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,360 a lot of the cards that I think would grade 910 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,079 a PSA nine and a half if it existed they 911 00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:55,360 just bump it up to ten. 912 00:50:55,639 --> 00:50:59,519 Speaker 1: So, yeah, listen, grade eight is not gonna go I'm 913 00:50:59,519 --> 00:51:03,280 not preaching a choiring crew. Grading is not going away. 914 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,760 We can talk about this probably for the next fifty years. 915 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,239 You know, I don't know how much it's. 916 00:51:09,159 --> 00:51:11,719 Speaker 2: Gonna for the next fifty years. 917 00:51:13,199 --> 00:51:16,039 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Some people know great, right, and 918 00:51:16,079 --> 00:51:20,000 that's that's your paragative. That's your choice, Chris. Right. You 919 00:51:20,039 --> 00:51:22,559 can buy and deal and just raw cards. You can 920 00:51:22,599 --> 00:51:25,320 buy raw cards, you can sell roll cards. You know, 921 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:31,159 I do both. I do graded in Yeah. Yeah, So 922 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,880 it's it's you know, I guess it's a highly acquired taste. 923 00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:36,679 A lot of people are doing it, so it's a 924 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,039 taste people like. For the most part. It's got its warts, right, 925 00:51:41,079 --> 00:51:43,559 I think we all know that it's it's got its warts. 926 00:51:43,639 --> 00:51:47,199 That's not gonna go away. You know, every week, something 927 00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,719 else is brought up, or something else happens that shines 928 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,360 the negative light onto the grading niche that's just gonna 929 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,800 be sort of par for the course. I hope it 930 00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,159 doesn't happen, but you know, it's gonna. It's one of 931 00:51:59,199 --> 00:52:04,760 those things, right, Uh. And you know it's kind of 932 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,360 is what it is until someone figures out tags trying 933 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,800 with the AI. You know, I don't know how well 934 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,920 or not well they're doing, but you know it's AI 935 00:52:15,039 --> 00:52:19,119 has not taken uh, you know, has not made a 936 00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,360 major impact overall. I think the AI is more like 937 00:52:23,559 --> 00:52:26,159 just on the intake of the cards, identifying them and 938 00:52:26,199 --> 00:52:29,480 getting them into the system. It hasn't really taken over 939 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,079 the actual grading of Like you said, Orlando, AI can't 940 00:52:33,119 --> 00:52:36,360 grade vintage cards right now. It's too difficult. Will that 941 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,119 always be the case? I don't know. I'm not an 942 00:52:39,159 --> 00:52:41,400 A I'm not an AI expert. I don't know if 943 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,920 we have I'm sure there are AI experts. I'm not 944 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,599 one of them. I don't think any of us in 945 00:52:46,679 --> 00:52:50,360 here are or in the chat room. But you know, 946 00:52:50,679 --> 00:52:54,400 as someone who likes you know, buying selling in the 947 00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,960 you know, in collecting graded cards, I hope there is. 948 00:52:59,079 --> 00:53:01,079 I hope it. Eventually we don't have to have these 949 00:53:01,079 --> 00:53:03,840 conversations all the time. They're not good. It paints a 950 00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,440 negative light on the space, right on the grading space. 951 00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:11,880 And I hope someday we some of these problems aren't 952 00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,760 problems anymore. It's not gonna happen tomorrow. Or next week 953 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,440 or next year. And if it is so, who knows 954 00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:22,599 how long it would take? Right, If you don't like it, 955 00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,880 I get it. I didn't like grading at first, and 956 00:53:26,079 --> 00:53:28,880 I kind of did a one eighty and changed. 957 00:53:28,639 --> 00:53:34,840 Speaker 2: My mind grading it from Ye wasn't until it came 958 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:40,039 along that the grating found it. It's niche in the hobby. 959 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,559 Speaker 3: That's right. It was with eBay because that's where people 960 00:53:42,559 --> 00:53:46,400 have confidence that the grade you're saying is the accurate grade, 961 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,760 and they it's it's it's tough to sell a raw card, 962 00:53:50,199 --> 00:53:52,360 you know, other than Greg Morris pretty accurately. If you're 963 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,400 going to buy a rock card on eBay, you can't 964 00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,360 go with what the grade that the seller is saying. 965 00:53:58,599 --> 00:54:02,039 Speaker 1: Now, let's not just let's not forget to. Grading is 966 00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:05,800 not just even sports cards. The coins are graded. We 967 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,639 were seeing video games, we're seeing VHS tapes. 968 00:54:10,039 --> 00:54:13,480 Speaker 3: Everything company. 969 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:16,599 Speaker 1: Yeah there's a company. 970 00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,480 Speaker 3: Currency, Fucal pops. 971 00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:22,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're great in fun. So everything is graded. Uh, 972 00:54:23,039 --> 00:54:26,280 you know, so it's it's just par for the course 973 00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,559 of the collectibles industry. And you know, who knew like 974 00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,679 VHS typs, VHS tapes back in the day would have 975 00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,000 a market, right, we ripped them open, put them in 976 00:54:37,039 --> 00:54:39,920 our VCR. You know, had I known some things, I 977 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,719 might have just kept them sealed. Chances are most of 978 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,719 the time when we watched the VHS movie, we had 979 00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,360 already seen the movie anyway, we wanted to see it again, Right, 980 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,239 we should have just kept that thing sealed for grading 981 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:56,400 twenty years thirty years later and you know made a mint, 982 00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,840 so to speak. But who knew, right, We didn't know. 983 00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,599 So grating's not going away. It just might not be 984 00:55:02,679 --> 00:55:05,079 your thing, and you know it is my thing. But 985 00:55:05,159 --> 00:55:08,199 I agree there's there's warts to it. We have to 986 00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,239 live with them. We have maybe see how many of 987 00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,280 those warts can be solved, if any and uh, and 988 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,039 that's that's just where we're at. 989 00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,880 Speaker 3: So, yeah, that's exactly where we're at it just to 990 00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,800 fix the little line we have, which it really can 991 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:24,000 they can't fix them. 992 00:55:24,119 --> 00:55:26,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like may you know, like the things that some 993 00:55:26,519 --> 00:55:28,199 of the things that brought up, like a card moving 994 00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,079 in the case, make a case where that thing doesn't 995 00:55:31,159 --> 00:55:34,320 move right and ding a corner and that's the so 996 00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,079 that stuff we can fix, you know, don't grate a 997 00:55:39,119 --> 00:55:42,119 card with a ding corner at ten and then have 998 00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:46,400 it posted on social media for the world uh to see. 999 00:55:46,559 --> 00:55:49,320 So uh, those are things that you can try to 1000 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,360 avoid if well, guys, we're up against the hour, a 1001 00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,519 couple of minutes over. Glad to be back this week, 1002 00:55:55,559 --> 00:55:59,480 glad to have you'll be seeing Orlando. Uh, you know, 1003 00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:03,280 regular rotation on the show. Maybe from his car, maybe not. 1004 00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,440 Speaker 3: We'll see it won't be for my car next time. 1005 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,599 Speaker 1: We'll take it. We'll take it either way, you know. 1006 00:56:10,199 --> 00:56:10,320 Speaker 3: Uh. 1007 00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:13,800 Speaker 1: Listen, everybody, Thanks, Thanks, everyone in the chat. Thanks everyone 1008 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,239 who downloads the show, maybe doesn't listen live, but listens 1009 00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,760 uh after the fact. We appreciate uh everyone else. So 1010 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,559 uh for Orlando, for Chris, go ahead, Chris, play us out. 1011 00:56:26,079 --> 00:56:29,360 Speaker 2: Keep on rocking in the free world, folks,