Speaker 1: W m N h rip the noos. We're back from
the brand.
Speaker 2: It's the end as we know.
Speaker 3: It's fading now for a few weeks, simons you it's
a like voice and.
Speaker 4: Charlie, I'm when I must stay.
Speaker 3: If I go back to you, you know that I
wouldn't think twise.
Speaker 5: But as I race it out, spin off say what
the fun?
Speaker 2: I'm thinking all the face. Would I have respeed all moments.
Speaker 5: Side with the moon stars and.
Speaker 4: All your music?
Speaker 6: We see that along so well, and now you are
denied it and never.
Speaker 4: I rode into her someday.
Speaker 1: Out you can got it?
Speaker 2: I would I riskin over.
Speaker 7: Osad and his eyes says, I think of those things
like week missed out.
Speaker 4: And now it seems turn me like week.
Speaker 1: The worlds are fast.
Speaker 5: And now'side him alone wing wing horrible so.
Speaker 8: And if I see out.
Speaker 9: The U say bother bout.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking of the things.
Speaker 2: For the harriskyed all for she side with the bom stars.
Speaker 4: They HUDUSI.
Speaker 10: We see gotta love so wealth and now you're acting
nice it and neb.
Speaker 4: I ron into her some day.
Speaker 1: I und gott.
Speaker 4: How would arrest it?
Speaker 11: Oversid What a great track that is so catchy. That
is called absolutely the band is moving on, and we've
got Elijah Jenkins via Microsoft Teams. He's gonna talk with
us in just a moment, or we're gonna talk with him.
We're gonna talk with each other. Here we have entered
our number two New Maarrow dose of Matt Connorton unleashed.
Welcome everybody. We are live from the studios of w
m n H ninety five point three FM and Glorious Manchester,
New Hampshire. If you are listening live today is Saturday,
February twenty eight, twenty twenty six. So nice to have
you all with us. And let's go ahead and get
this up. Ooh, I'm hearing an echo, but uh, Elijah,
are you there?
Speaker 12: Hire?
Speaker 1: Are you there?
Speaker 10: Hi?
Speaker 2: Can you hear me?
Speaker 11: I can hear you. Yes. For some reason, I'm also
hearing myself though. Hearing myself though. Do you have headphones in?
Speaker 2: Do you have headphones in? No? I don't, but I
can't get some one if you If that would be helpful.
Speaker 11: Oh, definitely, yeah, because it's it's actually feeding back, actually
feed Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna turn I'm gonna turn this
down for a second. I'm gonna okay, so I've muted Elijah. Yeah,
we just uh, I can tell you he didn't have
headphones in because we're hearing we're hearing me, and then
we're hearing me again, which is exciting in a way.
But it's like I'm talking to myself. But no, that's okay.
I don't want to talk to myself. I do want
to talk to Elijah Jenkins. So I'm very excited about this.
We had done a world radio premiere for him not
too long ago, one of his solo releases, stay Tonight,
I think it was. But uh, but I love this
band moving on. So let's see. I'm gonna turn this
volume back up on Elijah. We'll see if he's Elijah.
Are you with us?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 11: Oh? Oh yes, oh yes, Oh no, it's still feeding back.
It's still feeding back.
Speaker 2: Why I got my headphones to work?
Speaker 11: You can't get them to work. You can't get them
to work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, give us a sack. Co o.
Speaker 11: Okay, oh no, no worries. I'll just beat you again
for a minute. I'll beat you again for a minute. Okay,
Elijah is muted. This has never happened before, actually, and
all the time we've been using Microsoft teams. But but yeah,
it sounds like it's coming out to speaker. Everything I'm
saying is coming out of the speaker on his end,
and that is giving us a bit of a trouble,
a problem, A bit of a trouble, a bit of
a problem. So it is live radio. It is what
it is. We uh, we go forth, and I'm sure
it will be fine in a moment. He's just got
to get those headphones to work, all right. I'm gonna
un mute Elijah again. This is exciting though it's kind
of fun. You know, sometimes it's going to be challenged.
Right when things go wrong, then we have to work
through them. It can be uh, you know, because then
at the other side of it, if you successfully troubleshoot
the problem, you feel a sense of accomplishment. Right, let's see,
let's see what we got here. Elijah, are you there?
I think we're still connected. Yeah, we're still connected according
to this. Can you hear me, Elijah? Do you hear me?
Speaker 1: Elijah?
Speaker 2: I can hear you.
Speaker 8: I can't get any of my headphones to work though
I tried free pass.
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, because the problem is everything I say to
you it's being it's we're hearing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker 11: I wonder I wonder if you can do it on
your phone?
Speaker 2: If you can do it on your phone. I'm doing
it on my phone.
Speaker 11: Oh you are doing it on your phone. Okay, you
are doing it on your phone. Okay.
Speaker 2: Do you ever stoppen last time as well?
Speaker 11: What's adam?
Speaker 13: Sorry?
Speaker 11: Say that again?
Speaker 1: That's Adam?
Speaker 2: Sorry, say that again? Because they stoppened last time as well.
Speaker 11: Oh I don't even remember. Hey, for some reason, when
I said that, I didn't hear it feedback. It's still
there there. Do you have a do you have a
computer available? I wonder if you tried it on a computer.
I wonder if you tried it on a computer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll just die.
Speaker 11: That so all right, oh beautiful, yes, yes, yes, yes,
uh do that that? Actually? Can you email me the
number and I'll call you on What's Up and I'll
call you on WhatsApp?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you that now.
Speaker 11: Okay, yeah, go ahead, and I'll play another song while
you do that. Play another song while you do that. Okay,
sounds good? All right, guys, thank you for being patient.
We will uh we we have found a solution, and
it's just gonna take a minute. So what I'm gonna
do is I'm gonna play one of Elijah Jenkins's solo
songs that he had sent us before. I'm gonna play
this one. This is called take a Chance on Her.
This is a really good song. So let's give this
a spin and then I'm gonna connect with him on
WhatsApp and then we will go from there. We should
have just sund that to begin with. But but again,
you live and you learn and you troubleshoot, all right,
but hey, it gives us an excuse to play this song.
Check this out.
Speaker 13: Because it don't remember I'm it all started. Just catch
to get my word in case, take amad.
Speaker 5: So Katy drab in the street centered time, say chilta
from the.
Speaker 3: Ring Welcome was born in Din.
Speaker 7: You know, I'll dream than all the boys every day.
Speaker 4: Watch your ringsize, baby, I'm homping.
Speaker 2: One day I'll get.
Speaker 13: The chance to ask him.
Speaker 5: Oh and you said to me, I reckon, you're a
bit of a chancer. You last one day, babe, He's
something good.
Speaker 2: Be last.
Speaker 5: Ever, you do not leave me here with all my
questions un answer. I hear everybody talking when you didn't
you to take a chance.
Speaker 4: On going through the train home. I can't seat you again?
What myma high? Or is it too good to be true?
Speaker 5: Or am idress feeling high?
Speaker 4: Don't know?
Speaker 2: Don't what to say next?
Speaker 8: Don't wanna come.
Speaker 14: Across to shah, don't wanna look back anyantee, all our
dreams slowly die, not dream better.
Speaker 4: Than all the boys every day?
Speaker 12: What you think?
Speaker 15: Size, baby, I'm umping one.
Speaker 2: Day I'll get the chances to us.
Speaker 4: Oh, and he said to me, I reckon, you're a
thing of the chancellor.
Speaker 1: You last one day?
Speaker 5: Body be's umping when we last fever, you do not
leave me here with all my quest don't answer. I
hear everybody talking, would read you to take a.
Speaker 4: Chance on her. You know better than all the boys
every day.
Speaker 5: I watch ringsize, baby, I'm hoping one day I'll get
the chance to ask.
Speaker 4: Boy, he said to me, Hurricane, I'm made of the
chances you lad, what day day's open? When we last raver,
you did not leave me here.
Speaker 5: If all my questions or answered, I hear everybody talking
to take a Johnson it.
Speaker 4: Say my chonce on.
Speaker 11: All right, let's see I think we have Elijah Jenkins
with us via WhatsApp. Let's see how this goes. Elijah,
are you there? I am, hey, oh, perfect, perfect, no feedback,
Everything's awesome, wonderful, all right, all right, yeah, yeah, I
knew we I knew we would work through it. So
so welcome Elijah again. You know, I love your solo work.
Obviously we just played take a Chance on Her. That
is a great song. But I'm really curious to learn
more about your band moving on. I love that song Absolutely.
We did the American radio premiere for that recently, and
I really enjoyed getting to play that again as well.
And so tell us about the band. I'm curious about
out how, you know, because obviously you know you have
released songs as a solo artist, But why moving on?
Why why moving to a band project with your material?
Speaker 8: So I've had songs like absolutely, which is obviously out now,
and a couple of other things that we've got in
the works for a while towards the end of the
solo days, and I thought it was I thought the
songs needed a band behind them, to be honest with you, Matt,
I thought that was the way we were going to
get the best potential out of them.
Speaker 2: So a little bit about the lads in the band.
Speaker 8: We've got Scott on drums, who I was in a
former band with back when I was seventeen, and then
we've got George on bass, who I have a mutual
friends with, and then we've got Alfie on guitar, who
was last to join us in mid October of last year.
So you know, we're still only what we're in now.
Late February was still only about four months into the
journey as the band, but we're really happy with what
we've done so far.
Speaker 11: How how hard was it to find the right people?
I mean, did the chemistry sort of come together quickly?
Because obviously when you're putting a band together to do
material that you've already written and you know recorded in
some form, I mean, is it obviously it's a priority
to write to find the right people. Was that difficult
or did this come together quickly?
Speaker 8: So with Scott, I knew Scott who was obviously the drummer,
so I knew he was going to be.
Speaker 2: I knew we worked well together.
Speaker 8: With Georgia, we had mutual friends, so reached out to
him on Instagram before Alfie came in we did have
another guitarist, but we parted ways for a couple of
different reasons, and George knew Alfie and me and George
both reached out to Alfie. And then then first few
rehearsals were so exciting because it was obviously just as
well playing the songs and getting to know the songs,
it was also getting to know each other on like
a personal level as well, and to build that band chemistry,
which is something we've gotten, something we're very very happy
with and proud of as well.
Speaker 11: Sure sure, was that always kind of the goal when
you were recording and releasing music as a solo artist.
Did you always kind of have it in mind that
you would like to transition that into a band or
is that something that you sort of came to over time.
Speaker 8: It's come quite recently, to be honest about. I think
definitely in my earlier solo days, when I had done
Start Again and stuff like that, I couldn't really see
it as a band. But then the more I started
to write and the more I started to think about it,
and when it was just me and my guitar, I
could hear drums in the back of songs and guitar,
solos and bass and obviously I can't play all that
at once at the same time, so I thought, right,
we need to get a band behind it, and yeah,
that's what we've done and couldn't be happy with it either.
Speaker 11: Yeah, No, it sounds great. Absolutely. Now that's the only
single you've released so far as a band to this point. Correct, Yes,
that is correct, Okay, And what's what's kind of been
the response over there? I mean, obviously, you know, we
we played it here, so an American audience is getting
exposure to it. But I mean do people when people
hear it, do they do they recognize it's you right
away with a band or how's how's that transition been
in terms of interacting with your audience and and what's
some of the feedback that you've gotten from them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been smooth, to be fair.
Speaker 8: Even when we've been working with a lot of the
people here in the on the UK side of things
as well, like gig promoters and stuff, they're really pleased
to see it move into a band and it adds
a lot more energy even to some of the solo
stuff that had been doing as well. A lot of
the solo songs that are out have now gone full
band versions that were obviously playing live, so you know,
we're still keeping the solo stuff in there, but we
know we've transitioned it all now into a you know,
the four piece band, and you know, the reception who
it's been fantastic from obviously both sides of the pond,
which we're really really happy about.
Speaker 11: Yeah, no, that's fantastic. So an obvious question, where does
the name come from? Moving On?
Speaker 2: So the name moving On comes from when.
Speaker 8: Just previously mentioned we obviously had another guitarist who we
separated ways with, and yeah, I created a WhatsApp group
with myself, George and Scott.
Speaker 2: Called moving On.
Speaker 9: Oh.
Speaker 8: And it wasn't really thought of us like, oh, this
will be the band name or anything.
Speaker 2: It was just like, oh, this is how we're going
to move on from this situation.
Speaker 11: Yeah, and.
Speaker 8: It sort of stuck, and you know, then we added
alphae in and we were like, right, we've got to
think of a band name. And I was thinking, you
know a while about what a lot of the songs reflect,
and a lot of the songs reflect you know, nostalgia
but also escapism and you know that wanting to be
free just for moving on. Was the perfect fit really
for what a lot of the songs are about that
are obviously already out from the solo project, but a
lot of what's.
Speaker 2: To come as well.
Speaker 11: Okay, okay, were you surprised that the name was available
because you know, it almost seems like somebody else has
already got to be using that name, right, but but
apparently not, like you know, you you found something that
I'm just curious, you know, I'm always fascinated by how artists,
you know, decide to choose a name, and you know,
it is almost surprising to me that that was available,
but obviously it was. Was it a surprise to you.
Speaker 16: It was?
Speaker 2: I mean we had to drop the g Yeah, was
initially on the what that group chat?
Speaker 8: But no, Yeah, obviously did the research around it, and
when we found out it was available and you know,
we could get it on Spotify and all that, it
just all seemed to fall into place at the exact
right moment. And you know, when we went into the
studio to do Absolutely and then the other songs that
we'll have coming out later this year, it's just all
seemed to fit into place really well.
Speaker 2: And you know, We've got some cracking live shows coming up.
Speaker 8: We've got a headline show in Liverpool at the Jacaranda,
which is a famous venue where the Beatles played when
they were just starting out. And then we've got a
couple of festivals and a few unannounced things that I
can't spill the lid on yet, but as soon as
soon as I can, you'll be hearing all about it.
Speaker 11: I'd standing festivals are great. You know I say this
all the time. You might have even heard me say it.
Festivals are The great thing about festivals is on two levels.
On one, you know, obviously you're playing in front of
a large crowd and you're going to get exposed or
fans are going to get exposed to you, new fans
perspectively who might not have been aware of you or
have ever seen you live or heard your music before.
So it's such a fantastic way to expand your fan base.
But it's also an easy way to be able to network,
you know, and meet other industry people and of course
other artists as well. Just more broadly, but it's such
a Festivals are just such an amazing opportunity for an
artist like yourself to just really again not only expand
your fan base, but expand yourself within the industry in
terms of who you meet and the connections that you make,
and you never know what might lead to something even
more so, that's great. It's great that you're going to
be doing a couple of those. I'm curious about the
show at the jack Aranda. You know you mentioned the Beatles.
How how do you feel about I mean, is it
pressure to be playing a show like that or are
you just excited? Or is there like especially where you're from,
because you know, obviously you know there's the Beatles and
the music scene there. I mean, I'm sure it's always
really amazing and that there's so much great talent there.
But i mean, do you feel any pressure with that
or is it more just excitement or maybe you'll feel
pressure on the day of the show. I don't know,
but you how do you feel about that? How do
you process that psychologically leading up to it?
Speaker 8: It's a bit of everything, to be honest with you, Matt,
To be honest, obviously, yeah, you know there's pressure. When
you first announced the show, you hope it sells well.
You know, we're nearly sold out, which I'm absolutely delighted
to say. You know that this song and the way
the band's been received since we announced that it would
be a band in late December and then when the
show got announced, you know, we've had a really really
great reception and response. We've played the Jacaranda BEFOREMT, which
I think, oh, ease is a little bit of the pressure.
We've played a support slot there just before Christmas. Yeah,
so I think that eases the pressure. But you know,
headline in it is a different kettle of fish, but
I think it'll be that same emotion that's tied to
both nerves but also just immense excitement ready to get
out there and perform.
Speaker 11: That's great. That's great. By the way, I saw a
couple of names of bands associated with you that you
may have played shows with scruff of the neck and
this feeling. Are there are those bands that you've been
playing with.
Speaker 8: No, so they're the promoters and the booking agents that
we use, and they have oh real champions of unsigned,
unsigned acts across the UK.
Speaker 11: Oh fantastic. Okay, that's why those names came up. Yeah, No,
that's great. I mean, how how would you how do
you feel about the scene there currently? I mean like
I said, I know, you know a lot of great
bands have come out of that area, but uh, I mean,
are there a lot of other bands that sound because
I feel like your sound is unique. Obviously it's reflective
of your solo work, but with a full band. But
I mean, what's is it competitive?
Speaker 8: There?
Speaker 11: Is it more just a community thing where everybody kind
of works together. How would you describe the scene where
you are?
Speaker 8: It makes it both to be honest, Matt, you know,
there's support and there's you know, willingness from you know,
other bands to do well, and there's opportunities, you know,
like when we've been looking for support slots, we've been
offered it by different bands who are on the way
up as well. But you know, it's it's a competitive scene,
but there's no one, you know, dragging anyone down and
wanting anyone to not do well just so they can
do well.
Speaker 2: If that makes sense.
Speaker 8: That like, there's a lot of bands out there, but
a lot of the bands are all very good and
you know, everyone supports each other, which I think is fantastic.
Speaker 11: No, that is fantastic.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 11: I always say success in life or or in a career,
it's not a zero sum game. You know, it's not
like just because somebody else is doing well that means
you're automatically doing less well, you know so, and I
think musicians generally understand that, which is good. What's kind
of the forward trajectory for you guys as a band?
Obviously you've got the single absolutely which is out. Is
there a second single on the way. Do you plan
to do an EP or an album? What's kind of
the next year look like for Moving On?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think the next year for Moving On, Matt,
it looks good. We've already got our second single recorded
and produced. Oh so that that will lead into an
EP okay, probably into the second half of this year,
and then just getting out everywhere, Matt. You know, as
I said before, we've got a couple of festivals lined up.
We're going to be announcing a London show this weekend
as well. We'll be announcing another headline in our hometown
of Chester in the next few weeks. So it's it's
going to be a really busy year for us, Matt,
but it's we're really looking forward to. But yeah, I
think in terms of obviously, you know, the second single
will be out, give it to a three months. We'll
let people enjoy, absolutely, but then we'll make sure that
they're wanting the next one as well, and then we'll
give the people what they want. But yeah, second half
of this year and especially the summer is going to
be a really great time for Moving On, with lots
of gigs and a couple of festivals lined up as well.
So yeah, we're all really excited about it.
Speaker 11: No, that's wonderful. Yeah, it's great to see that you're
after such a great start with the band, and you know,
and obviously with your solo work you built a strong foundation.
But it's great to see the band doing well. And
like I said, I love that for a single Absolutely,
that's really good. Where should people go, Elijah, where's the
best place to go online to keep up with everything
that Moving On is doing or that Elijah Jenkins is doing?
Where should people go?
Speaker 8: Yeah? So for the band, it's moving On Official without
the g so m ov im on official for the
Instagram and that's where to keep up with everything. And
then it's the same on Spotify as well.
Speaker 11: Okay, okay, outstanding. I think in a moment we're gonna
close with one of your again, one of your solo
songs Start Again, which I think is appropriate in a
sense because you know you moving on. Start Again. This
is another one of the songs that we had played
previously that I really love. And then I'll probably play
absolutely again a little bit later in the show because
we did play it to open our segment with you today.
But Elijah again, congratulations on the band and the success
that you're having. It's wonderful to see this transition in
your career. And when the next single is ready, we
would love to be again the first American radio station
to play that, if you will do us the honor,
and we love being able to kind of be your
conduit into the American radio market because we're big fans
of what you're doing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Matt, I appreciate that. Nice one.
Speaker 11: Oh, definitely, definitely, So we're gonna hit that track. We
will let you go. But Elijah Jenkins of Moving On,
thank you again, my friend, and we will talk to
you soon, I'm sure.
Speaker 2: Chase out, Thank you everyone, you got it.
Speaker 11: Bye bye? All right. That is Elijah Jenkins from the
band Moving On. And this is another one of his
solo songs. This is so good. I love this. This
is called start again.
Speaker 4: Why don'tch.
Speaker 2: Lock on the doors? He happened months ago from the.
Speaker 4: Around, spanning days out.
Speaker 11: No, why wish.
Speaker 2: They could say me now, I.
Speaker 4: Know that it hurts, but you have to do your words.
Speaker 15: Can you say that you change you? Now it's me
left him in the way. It's nothing day to say
and I it's me sad.
Speaker 3: Here on the tree, ready to start again. There's nothing,
it's the same, ready to start again. Got a fine
to dream.
Speaker 4: Your lovers blue me away. You thought that things could
work out this a way.
Speaker 2: There's no motics to us. What time give me now?
Speaker 7: So I want to scream and shall most into the
worlds come down?
Speaker 3: Said all that it hurts, but you have to do
your words.
Speaker 15: And you say that you change, Then it's me left
Jim's way.
Speaker 2: There's nothing His days the same, and now.
Speaker 3: It's me side here on the tree, ready to started again.
Speaker 2: There's nothing.
Speaker 3: It's the same, ready to start again. He sign all
that it hurts, But do you have to do yourways?
And you say that you change who? Now it's me
left Tim in the ray. There's no fings days the same,
and no, it's me sad here on the tree. I'm
ready to start Again. There's nothing, it's the same. I'm
ready to start again.
Speaker 11: I really like that song a lot that is called
start Again. That is Elijah Jenkins, another great artist from
the UK, from the Liverpool area, and we just spoke
with Elijah Jenkins a few minutes ago. If you missed it,
of course you can always go back and listen to
the podcast version of the show. We had some technical
issues in the beginning there, but so Microsoft t eames
was not working out for us in that case, so
then we switched to WhatsApp and no problem. Always enjoy
speaking with him and of course his band moving on
their new single absolutely. We did the American radio premiere
of that track right here on Matt Conderton Unleash here
at WMNH ninety five point three FM and love love
the new single. So we'll be talking to him of
course again in the very near future, and it's great
to see the transition that he's been able to make
from his solo career into a full band. Let's see,
I do want to we've got a little bit of
music news. This particularly caught my eye, so we have
we do have a few minutes before we before we
hit the top of the Hour. So I wanted to
talk about this because this well, in a sense it
reflects or effects. I should say something that I've used.
This is from Music Businessworldwide dot com artist representatives launch
say No to Suno campaign now Sono if you're not familiar,
it's an app that uses AI. You can actually create
songs using AI. You just put in some simple prompts,
tell it what you want, and it will create a
song for you. Jenny and I it was over a
year ago now, maybe a year and a half ago,
the first time we ever used Suno. We did an
experiment with it, kind of live on the air, just
to see what would happen. It's very easy to use,
and it creates some very convincing you know, like you
wouldn't know just from listening to what it creates that
it's AI generated necessarily. I've used it quite a bit.
We've done some really fun things with it. But of
course we talk about AI a lot on the show,
and it's an effect on the music industry and how
artists feel about it. And so now there is this
say No to Suno campaign. Now. I have no intentions
of involving myself in any way in the campaign because
I actually like Suno and it would be hypocritical of
me to do so, even though my position ultimately is
and I think everyone knows it because of what I do,
what I'm involved in, the people I know, et cetera,
and the various, uh, you know, in terms of careers,
the various things I've done. I will always at the
end of the day, I will always always advocate on
behalf of artists. That's what I care about the most.
But that doesn't mean I won't use an AI app
like Suno to create a fun, silly song, because I
do use it for that quite a bit.
Speaker 6: So.
Speaker 11: Artists representatives, though, have launched the say No to Suno campaign,
saying AI slop dilutes the royalty pools of legitimate artists
from whose music this slop is derived. So let's take
a look at this because again, and who knows, who knows?
Maybe looking at this article, maybe there's information in here
that will change my mind and make me decide to
join the say No to Suno campaign. I doubt it,
but let's see. So it says here again. This is
from Music Businessworldwide dot com. A coalition of artist representatives
published an open letter calling on the music community to
reject AI music generator Suno. In an open letter titled
say No to Suno, the Artist Reps described the company
as a brazen smash and grab platform, accusing it of
using unauthorized AI platform machinery trained on human artists. Work
published Monday the twenty third, So this just happened this
past week on the Music Technology Policy Blog. The letter
was signed by figures including Ray Gubitz, executive director of
the Music Artists Coalition, Helene Lindvall, songwriter and president of
the European Composer and Songwriter Alliance, and Chris Castle of
the Artist Rights Institute. Other signatories included artist David C. Lowry,
artist and Artist Rights Alliance board member Tift Merritt, Blake Morgan,
artist producer and president of VCR Music Group, and Abbey North,
president of North Music Group. The letter arrives as Suno
continues to face copyright infringement lawsuits from major music companies
and rights organizations. And by the way, by the way
I tell everybody, I say, if you're enjoying these apps
like Suno or Udio is another one, a very popular
AI music generator, if you enjoy these apps and use
these apps, enjoy them while we have them, because the
sharks are circling. Okay, there's all kinds of litigation and
all kinds of stuff happening to try to get rid
of these apps permanently, or well, probably not getting rid
of anything permanently, and there's probably no getting rid of
these apps period. But I'm just saying, don't be shocked
if one day, all of a sudden, you can't use
these anymore because they've been shut down. Okay, they've been
bankrupted by lawsuits, whatever whatever may happen, but right now,
this is what's going on. Okay, so so uh. The
RIAA filed suit against both Suno and rival Udo in
mid twenty twenty four, acting on behalf of all three majors,
alleging mass infringement of copyright. Udeo has since reached settlements
with both Universal Music Group and Warner Music Group, signing
licensing agreements with each for a new AI music platform
expected to launch this year interesting WMG. Warner Music Group
also settled separately with Suno in November, but the AI
company remains locked in legal battles with UMG and Sony
Music Entertainment as well as European music rights holders, including
Denmark's CODA and Germany's Gema Gema. I've not used either
of those. In fact, I've never used Udio either. The
only one I've used is Suno. Okay, it says here.
The open letter took aim at the broader concept of
AI in the music business, arguing that unauthorized generative AI
platforms are fundamentally different from previous technological discus options in
the music industry. And by the way, as we've discussed
many times on the show, Jenny and I've talked about this,
the music industry has had many technological disruptions over the years,
you know, transitioning from vinyl and cassettes to CDs, napster.
You know, when Napster first came in and file sharing
became a thing, and all of a sudden, music was free.
I was working for trans World Entertainment at the time,
which owned Fye, Which and Strawberries and everything. When I
was working for them as a store manager in a
music store, and you know, we saw firsthand what was happening.
All of a sudden, people aren't buying CDs because they're
getting the music for free. And then there was all
these debates about well, is file sharing stealing or are
you just taking advantage of what's available and so forth.
We won't get into all of that, but anyway, there's
been many That's probably the single biggest technological disruption that's
happened in the music industry is the Internet and the
ability to access music easily and without paying for it.
That's probably the biggest one, at least leading up to
the advent of AI. Well, not the advent of it,
because AI has been with us for a long time,
but now with these apps, the advent of these apps
like Pseudo and Udo. Okay, so it says here again,
this is from Music Business Worldwide dot com. The open
letter took aim Actually, well, I read this already, but
this paragraph is worth reading again. The open letter took
aim at the broader concept of AI and the music business,
arguing that unauthorized generative AI platforms are fundamentally different from
previous technological disruptions in the industry. The letter argued that
the quote hijacking of the world's entire treasure trove of
music floods platforms with AI slop and dilutes the royalty
pools of legitimate artists from whose music the slop is
derived unquote, right, Because when you create something using these apps,
you're creating something that derives its content from all all
the content that it has learned. You know, we call
them large learning models. You know, it's taking that from
everything else that's available that it's learned, that it's taken in. Now,
when we talk about whether or not that's okay, my
argument has always been if I am arguing on the
side of not having a problem with any of this,
which I really don't, because you can't hold back technology.
It never works out. You have to adapt. You can't,
but you can't stop it. So you have to adapt.
When I let's say I write a song, and I've
written songs, I'm a musician. If I write a song,
anything that I write is somehow informed and influenced and
therefore is a product of all the music that I've
ever heard over the course of my life. Right, anything
that I create is somehow derived from everything that I've heard.
So how is that different from when a large learning
model learns music and then creates something from that. Now,
it is different in fundamental ways, But I'm just offering
as a counter argument to you know, everyone who says,
oh Ai, it's got to be stopped. We can't have
AI generated music and so forth. Well, is it really
different from when a human creates music? Now it is different. Again,
I'm just playing Devil's advocate here, but that would be
my counter argument to that. Well, if I write a
song as a human being, my song that doesn't come
out of thin air. My song is based on knowledge
and information and experience and all of it from my
own life and all the music that I've ever consumed
over the course of my life. That's all I'm saying. Okay,
getting back to the article, The letter arrives amid a
growing volume of AI generated music hitting streaming platforms. Now,
this is a problem that we've talked about on the
show before too. Is all this AI generated music that
ends up on Spotify for example, Well Spotify already, I
mean I don't remember the numbers. We've talked about it
before on the show. The amount of music that is upright,
that is uploaded to Spotify globally on a daily basis
is staggering. So then Spotify has to figure out, well
what to get rid of because now that you factor
in the ease with which you can create music using
an app and then just upload it. Now, it's it's
that problem of you know, you only have so much storage,
and you have to keep creating more storage. And you
know now that because people tend to think of it
as well, it's just data. It doesn't take up any
space physically, it's just data. But that's not true. That's true.
Think about your own computer, your own devices, right, you
only have so much memory. You know, I only have
so much memory on my cell phone.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 11: I keep my cell phone very clean because I don't
want to getting clogged up with stuff I don't need.
But I only have so much memory on it. So
it's not like it's no different for Spotify, for example,
they only have so much memory. Now they can create more,
but there is an expense to that. And also the
larger the catalog of music that is available on the platform,
doesn't it kind of dilute everything that's already there. So
this is a problem for Spotify. Not that I have
any great sympathy for Spotify because they don't pay very much,
but you know, in terms of royalties and so forth.
But you know, but now they've got a whole new problem.
This is why a few years ago, before before these
apps came out, even a few years ago, Spotify was
struggling with this. They were having to start to go
through I mean, obviously they have bots that do it,
but having to go through and delete low quality demo
recordings that people were just uploading to Spotify, thus diluting
what's on the platform. People uploading things that probably shouldn't
have been on there to begin with, because they weren't
of high enough quality to even be on the platform
to begin with. So now they've got a whole new problem,
let's see. According to getting back to the article, according
to recent data from Deezer, approximately sixty thousand AI generated
tracks are being uploaded to the Paris headquartered streaming service
every day, with synthetic content now accounting for roughly thirty
nine percent of all music delivered to the platform daily.
Let's look at that again these numbers. According to recent
data from Deezer, approximately sixty thousand, sixty thousand AI generated
tracks every day are being uploaded. These are also revealed
that up to eighty five percent of all streams on
AI generated music on its platform were fraudulent in twenty
twenty five, up from the seventy percent figure it reported
in the prior year, those streams are demonetized and removed
from the royalty pool. By comparison, streaming fraud across Caesers
entire catalog accounted for eight percent of all streams in
twenty twenty five. By the way, I'm not sure. I
don't know what they mean by fraudulent. That is not
clear to me. What do they mean by fraudulent? I'm
not sure. Do they just mean anything that's created with
an app or what do they mean? While AI generated
music currently makes up only a small share of total
streams on Deezer, up to three percent, the platform maintains
that generating fake streams remains the primary purpose for uploading
such content. The letter also weighed into the ongoing industry
debate over so called wald gardens in AI music. Criticizing
a recent LinkedIn post by Paul Sinclairs, who knows chief
music officer and EXWMG executive, who argued that closed AI
systems limit how people engage with music, Sinclair penned a
lengthy post Grammy week LinkedIn memo entitled open Studios not
wald Gardens, which took direct aim at the approach champion
by Universal Music Group in its recent AI licensing agreements.
UMG was the first major to settle its litigation with
Suno rival Udio in October twenty twenty five, alongside a
licensing deal for a new AI platform set to launch
this year. The concept of a waled garden was introduced
within that announcement, a model where AI generated music cannot
be downloaded or distributed outside the platform. Udio disabled downloads,
with users given a forty eight hour grace period to
retrieve previously created tracks before the walls went up. By
the way, this is the first time hearing about this
the walled garden concept. Around two months after that deal
was announced, in his annual memo to staff, UMG chairman
and CEO, Sir Lucian Grange appeared to warn against firms
quote validating business models that failed to respect artists work
and creativity and promote the exponential growth of AI slop
on streaming platforms. So, in other words, he's saying, don't
do this, don't make deals with AI. You're making a
deal with the devil. Effectively, you're getting in bed with
something you don't want. You don't want to encourage this.
If you start making deals with AI, you're going to
encourage this. I guess a quick counter argument might be, well,
if you look back to the previous seismic disruption in
the music industry, if you go back to Napster, what
was happening. Well, you know, the industry finally had to
start making some deals and some compromises and working some
stuff out. But what he's saying is, don't do that.
Do not encourage it. Michael Nash, execus get vice president
and Chief Digital Officer at UMG, explained the company's position
in further detail during an appearance on Billboards on the
Record podcast last month and outline the Waldgarden concept in
stark terms. He said this quote. The concept of a
wald garden is to set up through AI, a component
of the service for deep interaction with the artists and
the content, but not to create derivatives that you then
take off of the platform and post all over your
socials and post on Spotify and Amazon Music and Apple unquote.
He argued that by doing so, you quote effectively use
artists content and their brand to create derivative derivatives where
you're going to compete with the artists on other platforms unquote,
beyond Sinclair, who joined Sosuno in twenty twenty five. July
twenty twenty five. The company has made other high profile
hires from the music industry to support its efforts to
build relationships with the sector, including former Merlin CEO Jimmy
Sorry Jeremy Sirata as chief commercial Officer and former Spotify
executive Sam Berger as Senior director of Artist Partnerships. In November,
Suno closed a two hundred and fifty million dollars Series
C funding round. I don't want to get in all that. Okay,
never mind, don't care about that part. But that's the
end of the article anyway. But there you go. So again,
I will not be joining any such campaign. It would
be a but critical of me to do so. But
this is all about the say No to Suno campaign.
So we are approaching the top of the hour. Thank
you all for indulging me on that. I think it's
fascinating how AI continues to be disruptive in the music industry.
We're gonna play a song and then we're gonna take
a quick commercial break. When we come back an hour three,
Charles Richardson from The Charles Richardson Show will be join
us joining us for you wrestling fans. Elimination Chamber is
today this weekend, so we're gonna talk about that. But
I want to play one more song from Peter, the
photographer who joined us today in hour one of the show.
This is another studio track from a few years ago.
Great great song, Holding one twenty five. We're gonna play
this show. Love to our amazing sponsors. And then an
hour number three New Marrow Trace Charles Richardson joins us
via how's he joining us? Oh? He's gonna join us
via re stream? That's right. Uh so always love talking
to Charles. We might have somebody else joining usu via
the stream. We will see, but there is plenty more
to come. Matt Connorton Unleashed. We are live from the
studios of wm n H ninety five point three FM.
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