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Speaker 1: We're all owned by the Syndicate body and soul or

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should I just say bunny.

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Speaker 2: Hello?

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Speaker 3: Filthy movie lovers, something weirdos and anti Criterion bros To

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the thirty eighth episode of the Sin Syndicate where men

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come to be trodden underfoot and we always have this

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in a higher heel. My name is Gentry Austen, writer

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and researcher, and I'm here with my co host, adult

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film historian Casey Scott. And in this week's episode, we

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are joined by Jane Garrett, archivist, erotic historian and author

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of John Willie A Bizarre Life, to talk about director

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Joseph Marzano's nineteen sixty seven adaptation of Leopold von Socker

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Masse's infamous novel about sexual enslavement and loving cruelty, Venus

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in Furs.

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Speaker 4: This is Marzano. You're a director and host, cordially inviting

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the patrons of this theater to a weekend of fun

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and games with Eleanora and Stephanie. Leopold von Sachelmassach wrote

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Venus and Furs a hundred years ago, and from his

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name evolved the word masochism, every meaning of that word,

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every sensual dream He ever had is brought to vivid

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life in this fascinating film inspired by his work. Any

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man who has experienced the delicious pain of desire inflicted

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by beautiful women will know the evil truth of venus

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and furs.

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Speaker 2: Can there be any greater or cruelty you're dreaming?

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Speaker 1: So? It has always been since the times of Helen

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and Delilah by Dantelo la Montez.

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Speaker 4: If there is something you feel we left out in

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our brief resume of weekend activities only inted out here,

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do please let us know. The girls will we did

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a light of to fulfilled and gratify your every expectation. Oh,

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you're saving us in first shall destroy you at this

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theater soon.

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Speaker 5: Soon, so and so, so, so and so and so.

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Speaker 3: But before we bring on Jane, we have a few

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sexploitation news items and updates. Casey, should we start with

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this top one here commentaries? You want to tease some more?

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Speaker 6: I do well, because we've been We've been working hard

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on these, curiously because it's a lot of research into Luckily, Yeah,

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we won't say what the titles are. They are being

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announced on May first, so you will hear about it

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when this this episode comes out Wednesday. What day is

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that the three? You'll hear about it a few days yeah, right,

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So yeah, it's it's about there are films that we

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there are films and filmmakers. Well we've covered the filmmakers

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sort of, but there's other deep dives that we have

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to do. So it's like a lot of research because obviously,

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if you've listened to our previous commentaries for Sexploiters and

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Raw Love, we like to cover every possible nook and

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cranny of information that we can, and luckily, there's a

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lot of really good nooks and cranny's about this these films.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, kind of surprising too for as well known,

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semi wrote well known as these are in the sexploitation field,

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there's still a lot of inaccuracies out there with regard

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to us, cast and crew.

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Speaker 6: Yep, which we are trying to fix. I haven't decided

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if I'm going to fix IMDb yeah, might let you

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do that, but but yeah, I mean, it's it's it's interesting,

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and we're trying to get them done as quickly as

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possible because they're going to be announced with with them

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being on there, so yeah, they will be done. Yeah, No,

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I think I think that's good. A little tease for

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those yep, gorgeous restorations will tell you that absolutely stunning.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, we also have an update Alex Holmes

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slipcase Alex correction from our Smoke and Flesh episode. He

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is a big VHS collector, as we have mentioned. I

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think we had said sort of an incorrect date with

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regard to when those the Smoke and Flesh vhs came out.

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So he's a collector, and he noticed you can kind

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of tell a difference between what we're re releases and

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sort of original based on the design on the back.

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So yeah, I'm just going to quote him here. The

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way to tell us from the design on the back

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for Smoking Flesh it would have been issued from either

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ninety four or ninety five, because the two copies that

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are sold on eBay are both ninety six reissues. This

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would also be the case for a copy of Caged Virgins,

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which he also picked up, that was originally released in

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ninety three, but he has the reissue copies, so I

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have some examples in our show notes. Yeah, it's kind

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of a cool little note here, just you can tell

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the ninety two that you know those early ninety two

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ninety three releases and then the ninety four ninety five

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ninety six reissues. I'm sure Lisa was probably more closely

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involved with those later ones.

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Speaker 6: So yes, because she because she yes, probably except the ones,

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the earlier ones. The design on those is good. And

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that's something else that I would I would want to

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ask her. It's like, who was doing the in house

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designing before you got there, because that look, it didn't

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change that much, but it changed enough that it became

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more I don't know, more consistent across the board. Because

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if you look at the ones from earlier that he has,

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there's like they look pretty different in terms of fonts

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and and other things, and then there's a consistency the

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ones from ninety six. So I feel like that is

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Lisa's doing where it's like, let's keep these consistent, let's

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make these more collectible. I mean, she has that design background.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so exactly.

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Speaker 6: I think it's definitely an improvement. But that's very interesting.

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I think that's you know, and that just makes me

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think that I think Lisa there is something weird press.

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I know that that's something that she is looking into

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do a book about this, Like for real like I

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would love love to see the gradual changes over time

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for the different box art, and then you know I

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would eat that shit up.

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Speaker 3: We've got another update here with another date date related

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update here casey.

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Speaker 6: Yes, which I only to further tease what we're working on.

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I only figured this out because I had to do

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research on the distribution, release vision user of this film. Anyway,

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So we had mentioned the last episode talking about Smoking

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Flesh how the openings were very similar between Acid Eaters

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and Smoking Flesh, and I noted that, so Acid Eats

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has that year sixty eight attached to it. It actually

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did not come out in sixty eight. It came out

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in October sixty seven, so it's much more of a

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sixty seven film than a sixty eight film. So it

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came out, you know, several months earlier than Smoking Flesh.

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So it's possible that, you know, Mangene and co. Saw

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Ascid Eaters and felt a little inspired by that one

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to do. Yeah, very possible add elements to it.

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Speaker 3: It's possible we really wanted to get into We could

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see if it was screened in like Jersey or New York,

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where it probably was.

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Speaker 2: Jean would have seen it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, right, right, but I believe that it probably was.

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You know, we have more updates on that too.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of New Jersey, I know God.

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Speaker 6: Loves Sean Langrick, So Sean Langrick is not just we've

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already established that he's a New Jersey locations guy with

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Francis Friday, where he really wanted to detail about those locations,

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so he was able to pinpoint the locations where the

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drug dealer and smoke and flesh all of the stuff

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with him driving down the streets and things, or most

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of this stuff was actually shot in Bloomfield, New Jersey,

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specifically around Glenwood Avenue and Bloomfield Avenue. And then he

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also found that that is where Mangeen lived at the time.

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And he married his first wife in January nineteen sixty

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eight in Bloomfield, New Jersey. Then they divorced in California

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in seventy three, and that's when he married Adrian like

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ten years later. And then we'd also talked about the

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biker taking the tunnel into the city, and that kind

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of implies that his journey in this film is more

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or less geographically accurate because he's coming from Jersey into

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New York, specifically into Greenwich Village, and he did confirm

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that the location that I mentioned were, like, you know,

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in the village.

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Speaker 2: The PAS station.

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Speaker 6: He confirmed that was accurate. And then there was another

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building on Church Street which he also noted. So that

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was good to know the New Jersey connection. And it's

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interesting the more films from this area, from the New

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York area that we're watching, I think the constant belief

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in the fact that we're not they're not credited. Locations

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aren't credited typically, So I was like, well, this is

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a New York apartment, and that's not always the case.

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Sometimes they're going to go to well, not even Manhattan.

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It could be Queens, it could be Jersey, it could

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be Long Island. I think we had a movie to

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Coney Island too, So it just makes me think that

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I need to be more like Sean and keep an

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eye on these locations. But also Sean is like, there

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is no there's no there's no one else like Sean.

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So he's gonna notice these locations, and that's not locations

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that just anybody who knows Jersey is gonna recognize.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when I saw that shop, right, I'm like, I

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know Sean's on it.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know. I don't even need to look

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this up. He'll figure out where this is.

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Speaker 6: Right, Like he's good about New York locations. I think

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he also mentioned Florida and California is good too. But

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then also Mike McCollum's good about that too. When we

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have a vote update from Mike McCollum too, which will

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go over as well. After we finished the Shawn updates,

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because he gave us another good one. Actually he gave

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us two additional good ones. Sean was really on the

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case this.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I love this one because it confirms what I

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was trying to argue to you, which is that this

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was not shot that the house in smoking flesh. It's

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not like a walk up. It doesn't look like a

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walk up to me. It's an actual Jersey you know.

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I don't want to say suburban, maybe slightly suburban house

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with multi levels which appears to be probably which makes

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more sense Man Jean's house.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, right, Well, because he confirmed that Joe Manjean, he

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found an article from August sixty four which described him

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as a high altitude photographer and skydiver. So the skydiving

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connection to Ian Merrick, the production manager is right there,

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and then they both connecting to Mayhon in that way

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makes total sense. And then something we both missed was

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the skydiving book on the bookshelf in the in the in.

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Speaker 3: The apartment back and looked and I still couldn't see it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, like that's why I'm just like, I Sean is insane. Yeah,

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Jesus Christ, thank God he's thank God he's he's using

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his powers for good not evil. Yeah, like this is

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this is some dangerous ship. But yeah, no, that was

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very that was really good eagle eye viewing. So it's

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just like, Okay, this definitely has to have been his house.

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So then it was so then basically everyone who was

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based in New York treked out to Bloomfield, New Jersey

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and shot in Joe's house the interiors, and that also

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makes sense because then there's the attic, which makes sense

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that it's a house and not like even a townhouse

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in the village, so that definitely makes sense. And that

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kitchen is also, in hindsight, much more spacious than the

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New York kitchen would be. So yeah, it's just yeah,

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it's a lot of stuff that's kind of like, okay, it.

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Speaker 3: Just yeah, I love it because it just clicked everything

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into place once we got that kind of Bloomfield, New

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Jersey connect that that confirmation.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and we find we got a picture of him too,

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which is great because he has there's a picture of

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him in that sixty four article. Oh yes, you know,

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in a in a plane, ready to take a picture.

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So yeah, like that that was helpful too, and confirming

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from that picture that he's not in this movie.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm yep. Another Sean Langer update here, Janet Banzett.

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Speaker 6: That was interesting too because he said, I assume you

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found this stuff and I was like, no, I have not,

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so the I was like, no, Sean, believe it or not.

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This is why when we mentioned in the last episode,

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this is why we need more hands in the pie

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and more people involved. This is why we need it's

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it's a group project, not an individual gatekeep gate kept project.

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This is why we need more people on this because

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this is stuff that I missed, that you missed that

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I think. I don't think Alex was aware of this either.

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So it's like, yeah, people use different research methods and

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Shawn's are filling in those blanks, and there's other people

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that are doing the same thing. So apparently she had

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a side career in newspaper syndication as a columnist for

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a guy named Joseph Khalif who ran something called American

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Feature Syndicate. And so she was there from roughly seventy

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through seventy one up basically up until the time of

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her death. And it makes sense because she showed up

239
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in all these newspaper columns and little bits and little

240
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blurbs about you know, how she was about town. She

241
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had little roles and plays and things. And Sean noted

242
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that Khalif was connected to a lot of those blurbs,

243
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and so it makes sense then that they were connected

244
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in another way, which was that he was employing her.

245
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But the extent of the employment we're still not sure

246
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about because he's unable to find any confirmation that these

247
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,840
things because her He found a bunch of articles that

248
00:14:54,919 --> 00:14:57,320
her name is on. He can't find if they were

249
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,679
published anywhere or not, or if they were just available

250
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,720
to be published in syndication. So that's one of his

251
00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:08,799
next things. He needs to research one of her last

252
00:15:08,799 --> 00:15:11,000
column I think the last column that he could find

253
00:15:11,039 --> 00:15:15,039
for her was dated for July thirty first, nineteen seventy one,

254
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which is a couple of days after her death, so

255
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very strange. But the real thing I'm excited about is

256
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,799
that she copyrighted a script she wrote called The Rocking

257
00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:30,200
Horse Girl in January nineteen seventy. So to copyright a

258
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,320
script you have to deposit a copy of it with

259
00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:36,519
the copyright office. So Jane Bans's script is on file

260
00:15:36,799 --> 00:15:40,440
at the Copyright Office, and so I would love to

261
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,159
read a copy of that and know what the heck

262
00:15:43,279 --> 00:15:45,000
she wrote and why she wrote it.

263
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Speaker 3: Yeah, in which copyright office? Do we know where this is?

264
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Speaker 2: That we are?

265
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Speaker 6: There is only one.

266
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Speaker 2: That's what I was going to ask.

267
00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:55,480
Speaker 6: Is there the United States Copyright Office? There are no

268
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copyright offices per state, Gentry.

269
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Speaker 2: There's you for this. I didn't copy.

270
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Speaker 6: Wait you, but you don't know about copyright. I'll give you.

271
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,120
I'll give you a we'll I'll teach you about copy.

272
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,000
That's my passion. Yeah. No, the copyright office is the

273
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,639
United States Copyright Office. There's only one copyright office. So

274
00:16:15,919 --> 00:16:20,759
that's where people deposit films, scripts, tapes of songs, everything that.

275
00:16:20,919 --> 00:16:24,360
If you're registering something for copyright, you send it to Washington,

276
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,720
d C. So she did that for this, and uh,

277
00:16:27,799 --> 00:16:30,039
I need I'd like to read it The Rocking Horse

278
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,279
Girl a year in, a year and a half before

279
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,159
she died, So I'd really like to know if she

280
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,720
was trying to sell it. Yeah, yeah, I want to

281
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,879
know if it was a script for theater or film,

282
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,399
because that there those scripts would be very different based

283
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,200
on you know, like direction and stuff in that script.

284
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Speaker 2: And who knows how much of herself is in this script?

285
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,559
Speaker 6: You know? Yeah, I mean what if it's like autobiographical,

286
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,639
what if it's about a girl who came from Dallas

287
00:16:55,679 --> 00:16:59,320
to New York? You know, I don't know. I'm fascinated.

288
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,080
I love the idea of this exploitation. Actress wrote something

289
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,519
called The Rocking Horse Girl and it's about a woman.

290
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,640
So I'm automatically interested, Like what does she have to

291
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,279
How is she writing women based on her experiences, you know,

292
00:17:12,519 --> 00:17:14,640
so far in her life? Fascinating.

293
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, Mike McCollum's got something for us too. This is

294
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,079
the Angry Sky? Was this the Barry Mahon movie?

295
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,480
Speaker 6: Yeah? That was the one that Ian Merrick produced, and

296
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:28,000
there was like a premiere in sixty six and I

297
00:17:28,039 --> 00:17:30,119
forget where it was now, but we talked about it

298
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,519
in that episode in that Smoking Flesh episode, and I

299
00:17:33,519 --> 00:17:35,400
had mentioned I don't think it was released anywhere, because

300
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,240
I can't find any evidence of it. He found at

301
00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:42,039
least a screening on television in Chicago in nineteen sixty seven,

302
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,279
which is like, really, yeah, I think because it was

303
00:17:45,319 --> 00:17:47,279
I thought it was made sixty six or sixty seven,

304
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,279
But apparently it was a documentary about a man trying

305
00:17:49,279 --> 00:17:52,119
to set a record for high altitude parachuting and he

306
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,839
was injured on his third attempt. So once again here

307
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,480
we have parachuting and skydiving and Ian Merrick was involved.

308
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,960
And then it makes me think, okay, was Myzano involved?

309
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,720
Probably because he was he was shooting, he was photographing

310
00:18:04,759 --> 00:18:08,240
people doing skydiving, so that's likely that he was involved

311
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:08,960
with that as well.

312
00:18:09,519 --> 00:18:12,119
Speaker 3: Also notes the play bands that went to Florida.

313
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 2: What's this about? Watch the Birdie?

314
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:14,599
Speaker 1: She did?

315
00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:17,319
Speaker 6: So she did a play in Florida, which I found

316
00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,720
an article about. And the play that she went to

317
00:18:20,839 --> 00:18:24,839
appear in was directed by Richard B. Shule, who was

318
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,960
in He was the star Watched the Birdie and then

319
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,279
he wrote Pamela, Pamela, you are for William Melrose and

320
00:18:31,319 --> 00:18:35,480
then he copyrighted some things with William L. Rose as well,

321
00:18:35,599 --> 00:18:38,039
so he was William a big collaborator with the Rose.

322
00:18:38,319 --> 00:18:40,359
I feel like he also was involved with Renter Girl,

323
00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:43,160
and he definitely did the story for Aroused, so he

324
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,519
was definitely he was involved with other sexploitation stuff. But

325
00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:48,319
he was a very popular character actor before he died.

326
00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:52,319
So the connections to sexploitation are obviously there because she

327
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,640
went to Florida and was directed, so, you know, directed

328
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,400
by this guy that I'm trying to think if she

329
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,400
did any films with him, but yeah, so that was

330
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,759
very That was interesting connection that they both went into

331
00:19:01,759 --> 00:19:04,960
Florida to do that. And then the last McCollum win

332
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,519
was that he was researching the electronic I mentioned I

333
00:19:07,559 --> 00:19:11,839
thought Sean was researching Jesse Elberger, and Mike confirmed that

334
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,920
he was the one researching the electronic Lover.

335
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,799
Speaker 3: So we will, yes, when we talked about possibly talking

336
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,440
possibly covering that later, yeah.

337
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,519
Speaker 6: Yes, which I still think we should. So then you know,

338
00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:25,240
we'll we'll reach out to Mike and see what he

339
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,160
has found on that. I think because I didn't I

340
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,079
would never think that that was the guy's real name.

341
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,480
So yeah, I'm very interested to see what he found

342
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:32,920
for that guy.

343
00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I wonder if maybe that would be the

344
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,279
opportunity to dig into Natara.

345
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,119
Speaker 2: Maybe we could find something out.

346
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,079
Speaker 6: No, get that, No, that Diggan was, that Diggan has

347
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,480
been done. There's nothing defined. Yeah, there's nothing defined. I need.

348
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,400
We need a talent release form and we're not going

349
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:49,920
to get one.

350
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so to get a real name.

351
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, folks, we need talent release forms. Yeah.

352
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,519
A lot of there's a lot of people who try

353
00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:02,359
to do like reverse to find people. There's an entire

354
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,759
Facebook group that is based around doing a verse AI

355
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,160
and I'll tell you right now ninety percent of those

356
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,880
are inaccurate. So stop doing that. We need real, real names,

357
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,160
real dates of birth, real information. Yeah.

358
00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:18,519
Speaker 3: I think that's that wraps up our news updates, which

359
00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:21,119
is good timing. Here, I think we'll bring on Jane.

360
00:20:21,599 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 6: Hello. Hello, it's nice to meet you.

361
00:20:26,079 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 5: Nice to meet you too.

362
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 2: We just wrapped up good timing.

363
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,759
Speaker 3: I think in my intro I kind of copied the

364
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,279
description you gave on the back of your book by

365
00:20:35,279 --> 00:20:39,839
saying archivist, erotic historian and author. Maybe you can fill

366
00:20:39,839 --> 00:20:40,880
in some blanks there.

367
00:20:41,079 --> 00:20:41,400
Speaker 6: Sure.

368
00:20:41,799 --> 00:20:46,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, my name's Jane Garrett and I am an archivist

369
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,240
and special collections librarian. I live in Washington State, and

370
00:20:50,319 --> 00:20:53,240
I'm also the author of John Willie of Bizarre Life,

371
00:20:53,279 --> 00:20:57,200
which is a biography of mid twentieth century bondage and

372
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,559
fetish artist and Bizarre magazine founder John Willy.

373
00:21:00,759 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 6: Yeah.

374
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 3: Well, where did you get your start in this research

375
00:21:04,279 --> 00:21:04,960
in history?

376
00:21:05,559 --> 00:21:09,319
Speaker 5: Well, it's really been kind of a lifelong interest of mine.

377
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,720
And as far as as far as becoming interested in

378
00:21:13,799 --> 00:21:17,920
John Willy specifically, that started when I was a teenager.

379
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,119
One of my friends brought back that tashion set, the

380
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,920
Complete Bizarre, which was, you know, published in the nineties.

381
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,039
One of my friends brought that back from a trip

382
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,160
she had taken to visit some family in Germany. And

383
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,200
I at this time, you know, I think I was

384
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,759
about seventeen years old, sixteen, seventeen, somewhere in there, and

385
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,920
I'd never seen his work before. I was looking through

386
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,799
this book and I thought, oh my god, you know,

387
00:21:42,839 --> 00:21:44,960
what is this. I can't believe this came out in

388
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,720
the forties and fifties. And so that was kind of

389
00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:51,079
the start for me as far as becoming interested in

390
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,880
his work. And over the years, you know, I collected

391
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,720
issues of Bizarre and I collected his work and anything

392
00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:02,279
that I could find about him. But the one thing

393
00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:04,279
that was always missing was a biography.

394
00:22:05,079 --> 00:22:05,279
Speaker 3: You know.

395
00:22:05,279 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 5: There were little things written, introductions to books or short articles,

396
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,480
but there was not a biography that had come out,

397
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,039
and that was something I always wanted to read. And

398
00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:17,319
then one day I thought, you know, well, maybe I

399
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,519
could write a biography. I've always liked to write. I

400
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,680
was a writing major when I was an undergrad, so

401
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,400
that was just kind of something I decided to try

402
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,440
and see if I could do, and sure enough, it

403
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,000
came together. It was a lot of fun. It was

404
00:22:32,319 --> 00:22:36,000
really really a privilege for me to write this book

405
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,759
and be able to do that kind of deep research

406
00:22:38,839 --> 00:22:40,599
and share what I'd learned with other people.

407
00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 3: And I love that you've been doing like appearances and

408
00:22:44,839 --> 00:22:48,400
readings and pairing them with like shows and stuff. You've

409
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,079
got one coming up, I think.

410
00:22:50,599 --> 00:22:53,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, that one coming up next week May second,

411
00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:55,960
which is Saturday, and that's going to be in the Spokane,

412
00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:59,559
Washington at a bookstore called Giant Nerd Books and they're

413
00:22:59,599 --> 00:23:00,960
doing a fetish art show.

414
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe a lot of artists.

415
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 5: They've they've already I guess selected the people that are

416
00:23:06,519 --> 00:23:08,559
going to be in it. I'm so excited to see

417
00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:10,720
all the artwork, and there's I'm going to do a

418
00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:13,000
book talk and sign books and that kind of thing.

419
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,279
Speaker 3: This is eventually going to tie back into our movie,

420
00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:19,119
of course, but I'm I'm always curious, you know, how

421
00:23:19,519 --> 00:23:24,359
the audience reception has been to this material and these shows, like,

422
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,039
you know, you've been in this scene for a while, like,

423
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:28,160
how have you seen it?

424
00:23:28,319 --> 00:23:29,799
Speaker 2: You know, mold and change.

425
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 5: Well, truthfully, I mean the first of all, the turnout

426
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,519
for everything has been fantastic, way beyond my expectations every time,

427
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,279
which has been really really cool. And just this the

428
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,319
huge variety of people that come out that are interested

429
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,119
in the different reasons that they're interested, getting getting to

430
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,039
talk to people and and you know, hear about their

431
00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:56,759
interests and why they're there. It's just really interesting and exciting.

432
00:23:57,319 --> 00:24:01,599
And recently I did a an intro for Satan and

433
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,359
High Heels, which I know you guys did an episode

434
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,039
few weeks ago, and yeah, and it was it was

435
00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:08,240
there was a great turnout for that. I wasn't you know,

436
00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:11,359
I wasn't really sure because sex Best, who was working

437
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,359
with they usually do hardcore, which is to see hardcore

438
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,000
on the big screen, and this was their first time

439
00:24:18,039 --> 00:24:21,279
really doing kind of more of a sexploitation film, and

440
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,000
so I really it wasn't sure, you know. I thought,

441
00:24:24,039 --> 00:24:25,440
I was the audience is going to like that or

442
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,920
are they not going to come out for this one?

443
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,240
But a lot of people came out for it and

444
00:24:29,799 --> 00:24:31,960
seemed really interested. I gave it kind of a history

445
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,359
talk at the beginning, and folks were really engaged. So

446
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:35,480
that was a lot of fun.

447
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 6: That's great. Yeah, I love that movie. Well, yeah, because

448
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,039
when we covered it, I remember that Gentry was kind

449
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:43,799
of like it wasn't as like it didn't have like

450
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,000
as much as much sex or like ties to fetish

451
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:49,759
as as much as he thought it would. But I

452
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,039
don't know, yeah, right, right exactly. You were kind of like,

453
00:24:54,279 --> 00:24:56,720
this really could have gone this could have gone further.

454
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,359
But remembering that it was made in like between sixty

455
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,559
and sixty two, it's kind of like, what can we

456
00:25:02,599 --> 00:25:06,160
get away with? You know? Yeah, right exactly, And then

457
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,200
you compare it to this movie and it's like they're

458
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:10,960
they're really testing a lot of waters with this one

459
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,039
where yeah, because it's it is because it's that by

460
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:16,920
this point at sixty seven, so we've had the Olga films,

461
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,880
We've had some of the Michael Finley films. It really

462
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,200
is sticking a lot to the East Coast, and so

463
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,480
this one, there are so many different fetishes in this

464
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,279
and so it feels like there's a little a little

465
00:25:28,279 --> 00:25:30,920
something for everybody in this, which I think is what

466
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,039
makes it really interesting, and including like Homer erotic stuff,

467
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,119
which is very unusual for films at this time to

468
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,880
be including like the massage scene and things.

469
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,279
Speaker 2: Like that, and the weightlifting scene. Yeah.

470
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 6: Yes, I mean I love it obviously, but like I'm

471
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,119
not the audience for these movies, you know, so it's

472
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,039
kind of like I love it. I wonder what they

473
00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:54,240
thought of it at the time. I've always wonder about that,

474
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:54,640
you know.

475
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I know, Jane, when we were initially talking that,

476
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,480
we were like, we want to bring you want to

477
00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:03,480
talk about something, and we're trying to find the right movie,

478
00:26:04,039 --> 00:26:07,359
and so I think we initially suggested Olga, one of

479
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:12,039
the Olga films, and you did not love it. Tell

480
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,920
us a little bit about like your response to that,

481
00:26:15,519 --> 00:26:15,799
you know.

482
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,759
Speaker 5: I'd watched I tried. I'd watched an Olga, the first

483
00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:22,839
Olga movie before, and I remember thinking back on it.

484
00:26:22,839 --> 00:26:24,839
I thought, I seem to remember I didn't really like

485
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,480
that that well for some reason, and I when I

486
00:26:28,519 --> 00:26:30,920
went back to watch it the second time, I was like, oh, yeah,

487
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,200
I just I don't know what it is. I find it.

488
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,960
It's gonna sound bad, but I find it a little

489
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,880
bit boring. It wasn't really good.

490
00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:43,079
Speaker 6: Wrong, Yeah, no, you're not wrong. That's a that's a

491
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,799
valid for sure.

492
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,559
Speaker 3: I could see, uh, the Olgas being a little bit

493
00:26:48,599 --> 00:26:50,319
more if you compare it to what we're going to

494
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,839
talk about here Venus and first, like the Olgas are

495
00:26:52,839 --> 00:26:55,799
a little cartoonish maybe in their depiction. I think this

496
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,599
is a little bit more like kind of darkly. I mean,

497
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,519
I think there's a touch of humor in this, but

498
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,400
I think it's a little bit more surreal and dark,

499
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,440
and I could see the appeal more.

500
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love how stylish this venis and stylish yeah yeah, yeah.

501
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,079
Like you were saying about all the different fetishes, what

502
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,640
was cool I was noticing was even some kind of

503
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,599
old school fetishes that you don't often see represented, like

504
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,160
for example, there were a couple of instances where women

505
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,400
were wearing these very long white satin gowns, and satin

506
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,519
was a really popular fetish material for a long time,

507
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,960
both the skin but also before we had things like

508
00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:44,519
latex or PBC where satin supplied that shine that is

509
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,920
such so appealing to a lot of people. So that

510
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,480
was something that I was kind of surprised to see

511
00:27:50,519 --> 00:27:53,160
at this late date nineteen sixty seven, when we were

512
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,519
starting to have things like rubber attire and stuff like that,

513
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:00,839
not the rubber, but you know rubber tenures.

514
00:28:00,839 --> 00:28:03,559
Speaker 6: Spetishwere Yeah, that is interesting. I didn't know that about

515
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,839
about satin because yeah, I mean that is something that

516
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,519
is that I'm not as familiar with. And so that's

517
00:28:09,519 --> 00:28:12,160
why I absolutely do need your book. I'm more familiar with,

518
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,480
like with with gay fetishism. So like Samuel Stewart with

519
00:28:16,599 --> 00:28:19,759
that book came out, I love that book. Yeah, and

520
00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:21,480
that was a game changer and I was like and

521
00:28:21,759 --> 00:28:23,200
when I was reading it, I was like, Okay, so

522
00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:26,039
this is the gay side, Like what is the straight side? Like?

523
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,240
So I feel like John Willie, I need to be

524
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,720
familiar with John Willy and that we'll add that additional

525
00:28:31,759 --> 00:28:34,240
context of like what was going on at the same time,

526
00:28:34,279 --> 00:28:35,640
what was his background you know?

527
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, John Willy was was heavy heterosexual in his

528
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:47,319
approach to to fetish, So yeah, that definitely is there.

529
00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:52,559
Speaker 6: Okay, what do you waste his sweat on that broad, Davie?

530
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 5: That type didn't never buy.

531
00:28:54,079 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 6: Oh, I don't mind, you're too nice.

532
00:28:57,079 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 4: I kind of like to take advantage they might to

533
00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:03,240
see a guy called on a floors. Hey, hey, louis

534
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,480
having that redhead I waited on last night?

535
00:29:06,039 --> 00:29:09,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, the big one. Yeah, they're what a hard

536
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,519
time she gave me. You should have seen it. Ans

537
00:29:13,519 --> 00:29:15,839
I got a ome there.

538
00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 5: You don't know, I don't handle him.

539
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 6: Let me clearly you, Davy, I'll see you later.

540
00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: Should we talk about the release history really quick?

541
00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:34,519
Speaker 6: Casey? Yeah, well, I did want to start with the trailer.

542
00:29:35,119 --> 00:29:38,920
The director Joseph Marzano hosts the trailer, so it has

543
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,880
that personal touch where he's like that he terry. He

544
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,079
hosts the trailer and opens it with like, this is Marzano,

545
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,559
your director and host, and it's kind of like he's

546
00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:50,039
welcoming you to like this is the circus, Like this

547
00:29:50,119 --> 00:29:52,519
is the welcome to our show. Like we're going to

548
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:56,400
show you all these amazing things, and it just definitely

549
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,559
ties into, like I think you'd mentioned in the notes,

550
00:29:58,599 --> 00:30:01,720
how it feels a little personal for him and some

551
00:30:01,839 --> 00:30:05,799
of this stuff he casts himself in certain sequences. There's

552
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:09,160
there's in like a submissive role for most of most

553
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,680
of the time he's in there. So it definitely makes

554
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,720
me wonder. But it definitely has that tie of the

555
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:17,480
personal because not a lot of directors were doing that

556
00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:20,680
like russ Meyer would do it. Now actually russ Meyer

557
00:30:20,759 --> 00:30:22,960
never did it. Russ Meyer had stand ins to do it,

558
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,200
but yeah, a lot of directors they were not as

559
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,599
involved with hosting the trailers for their movies.

560
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,559
Speaker 2: Yeah right, Yeah.

561
00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:33,519
Speaker 3: I love that introduction where he's like, this is Marzano

562
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,640
because it made me think, you know, we never got

563
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,000
like a series of Marzano films where we he could

564
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,039
have created this persona character for himself, but we never

565
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:48,039
got that because he as we'll go into we'll learn

566
00:30:48,079 --> 00:30:50,160
his his what happened after this?

567
00:30:51,079 --> 00:30:53,759
Speaker 2: But where did this premiere? Hear in my town?

568
00:30:54,319 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 6: It did it premiered in your town? Except New York

569
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,880
wanted people to believe it was premiering in New York,

570
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,680
which is not the case. So it's interesting because we

571
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,720
were doing research on for other commentaries we're doing, and

572
00:31:04,759 --> 00:31:07,480
Minneapolis was like a go to premiere town for a

573
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,400
lot of exploitation, which I don't know if you knew that, gentry,

574
00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:13,240
but these movies were premiering in your backyard.

575
00:31:13,359 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 3: Well, I know Friedman ya had a connection with that theater,

576
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,799
so he helped get some stuff. But this, yeah, wasn't

577
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,039
Friedman related.

578
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,279
Speaker 6: No, this one was Novak, which we've Yeah, we've we've

579
00:31:24,279 --> 00:31:26,920
talked a lot about Novak on here, and I don't

580
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,519
think we need to cover him that much on this

581
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:31,880
because you don't need to get me started. I'll put

582
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,839
it that way. You don't need to know. We're gonna

583
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,000
keep the vibes positive. I don't need to talk about

584
00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:40,599
what a sleeve's Novac was. But Yeah, premiered with Wonderful

585
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,920
World of Girls, which was way older and totally different

586
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,119
and a color movie in Minneapolis. Yeah, but the world premiere,

587
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,480
which happened three days later, was Monday, July tenth, and

588
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,079
that premiered simultaneously the T Valley in Manhattan and The

589
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,880
Sin Aren't in Brooklyn, and they premiered it premiered pair

590
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,119
with two different movies. So Manda Bizarro again a color

591
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,559
movie at the t V Lee in Manhattan, and then

592
00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:06,000
kiss Me Nicely, which I think has Kissed Me Quick

593
00:32:06,119 --> 00:32:09,319
at the Sinnart. So you have this movie that's coming out,

594
00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:13,119
which is a very forward, it's a very sexually forward

595
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,880
black and white film com paired with two very different

596
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,960
older color films on the B side. So I thought

597
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,319
that was really strange. I don't know if maybe the

598
00:32:22,359 --> 00:32:26,319
programming thought was they were like palette cleansers or something

599
00:32:26,599 --> 00:32:29,640
after kind of being in this black and white world

600
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,079
that is very different. But I found that programming very

601
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,880
unusual that they would pair it with color films from like,

602
00:32:36,119 --> 00:32:39,000
you know, three years previously and kiss Me quickscase.

603
00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:41,559
Speaker 3: I mean, I think black and white still had this

604
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,319
sort of a certain cachet with audience members who kind

605
00:32:46,359 --> 00:32:48,400
of knew what they were going to get with a

606
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,160
black and white roughy, nudy, and I think it had

607
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,240
an audience that wanted to see that. I know we

608
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,240
always talk about like, well, when color came in, black

609
00:32:58,279 --> 00:33:02,000
and whites were dead, but obviously it wasn't instantaneous.

610
00:33:02,519 --> 00:33:04,279
Speaker 6: No, Well, Hollywood is the same way. I mean, there

611
00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:07,440
were still Hollywood was still doing color films, wide screen films,

612
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,720
but also you know, black and white films that were

613
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,799
more edgy or gritty or like urban urban city stories.

614
00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:15,559
So it makes sense that a lot of the New

615
00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:18,440
York film stayed black and white and they really felt

616
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,519
like the Naked City sort of kind of kind of visuals.

617
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,119
But also strange that this was distributed nationwide by a

618
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,519
California distributor, which was Novak, so he didn't distribute that

619
00:33:27,559 --> 00:33:29,440
many New York films. And the fact that he went

620
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,079
back to the well for the same producer for three

621
00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:34,720
movies is very unusual because he really didn't do that

622
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,599
that frequently. So something about lu Campa he was he

623
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,920
wanted to be in the lu Caampa business at least

624
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,960
three times and before he bailed.

625
00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, And speaking of Yeah lu Campa, this was paired

626
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,599
with Mini Skirt Love, Cool It Baby, a Depraved Desires

627
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,759
triple feature on DVD. I think that's probably one of

628
00:33:55,799 --> 00:33:59,960
the best image something Weird releases they ever did.

629
00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:03,359
Speaker 2: But I like these movies. I know some people don't.

630
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:04,519
What do you think, Casey?

631
00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:07,559
Speaker 6: I agree They're so different too. I mean Mini'skirt Love

632
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,639
is basically like NonStop incests essentially. You know, it's like, yeah,

633
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:16,360
it's it's it's it's much easier than this. That's for sure.

634
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,239
Much his aunt and uh, it's his aunt, but the

635
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,599
aunt also has affection for her sister, and so yeah,

636
00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:26,199
it's very weird and cool. A baby is very like

637
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,280
crime syndicate, kind of noir ish thing about like a

638
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,920
blackmail story. Yeah, so Venus and First is definitely the

639
00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:37,000
art the art one here, like we're it's there's a

640
00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:40,519
lot more style. There's a lot more Yeah, this I

641
00:34:40,559 --> 00:34:43,159
mean style is it's style of the capital s I

642
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,400
think is Venus and First. And that's why it works,

643
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,920
I think is because he's really interested in telling this story.

644
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,880
Well there's very little story, but he's very interested in

645
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,960
kind of building this visual tapestry for the audience. What

646
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,119
I think is really interesting.

647
00:34:57,519 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 3: Well, I'm looking at these ad mats and you know,

648
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,159
I wanted to ask you, Jane, how familiar do you

649
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:08,440
think audience members were to this story? Did they immediately

650
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,840
know what this movie was going to be about when

651
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,400
you advertise Venus and First?

652
00:35:12,639 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 5: Well, you know, I think within kind of the existing

653
00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:22,440
fetish community, probably you know, the Venus in first was

654
00:35:22,519 --> 00:35:27,239
first translated into English my understanding in nineteen oh two

655
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,159
in a very small, privately printed edition which came out

656
00:35:30,199 --> 00:35:33,880
of Paris. And then there was a second English translation

657
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,559
in nineteen twenty one, and both of these both of

658
00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:43,840
those translations were like not great translations. Apparently, it wasn't

659
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,159
until nineteen sixty five that there was the first English

660
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,920
unexpurgated edition, and that came out of London through luxore Press.

661
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,039
Speaker 3: Okay, so it's pretty fresh. Then, that's sixteen, pretty that.

662
00:35:56,519 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 5: Right now, that that was England, but you know, this

663
00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:04,239
was Luxar Press specialized in erotica. They had also brought out,

664
00:36:04,679 --> 00:36:07,559
you know, a copy of Memoirs of a Lady of Pleasure,

665
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,239
Fanny Hill and some of these other heavily banned books,

666
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,559
and also, you know, and around this time in the

667
00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:18,239
United States also there were a lot of a lot

668
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,119
of court cases, a lot of Supreme Court cases surrounding

669
00:36:21,119 --> 00:36:24,800
different books and are they obscene? I'm not aware of

670
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:30,599
any cases highlighting Venus and Firs specifically, And I actually

671
00:36:30,679 --> 00:36:33,840
don't know when the first American edition ended up finally

672
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:39,280
coming out, but the fact that this English, this British

673
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,079
edition came out in nineteen sixty five. I think that

674
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,719
was probably a big part of the reason why Gentry.

675
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,599
As you pointed out, there were like a lot of

676
00:36:47,639 --> 00:36:51,119
different movies versions of Venus and first made right around

677
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:52,400
this late nineteen sixties.

678
00:36:52,559 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's very strange. They're also close together.

679
00:36:56,519 --> 00:36:58,480
It's not like a Fanny Hill where you got a

680
00:36:58,519 --> 00:37:01,039
Fanny Hill in sixty four and in sixty eight and

681
00:37:01,079 --> 00:37:03,880
then yeah, like there at least there's at least some

682
00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:06,039
years between that. But this is kind of like, oh,

683
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:08,880
we need to we need to hit while this is hot,

684
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,119
and so now that it's finally available, yeah.

685
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you haven't seen that barb that Barber Steel short,

686
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,239
I think it's on one of those releases, some seven release,

687
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,199
but yeah, I think that was one of the earliest.

688
00:37:22,559 --> 00:37:25,360
And it's just a short of her sort of you know,

689
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,239
draping herself and for and then they read some passages

690
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,000
from the novel. But yeah, right after that, then you

691
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:34,039
get this one, and then you get the Franco one

692
00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:39,639
and the Massimo Dolomano one. Any thoughts on those casey,

693
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:40,039
I know.

694
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 6: Have you seen them? Have you seen those? Jane or No?

695
00:37:42,599 --> 00:37:43,199
Speaker 1: I have not.

696
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 6: No, Okay, so the Franco One is great. I love

697
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,800
the Franco One. The soundtrack is good. It's a really

698
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,000
good role for Maria Rome.

699
00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

700
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,159
Speaker 6: It's like, yeah, it's really kind of I mean, it

701
00:37:59,199 --> 00:38:02,039
turns and transfer into like a horror narrative where it's

702
00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:04,440
and it's kind of like, I don't know, it's like

703
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,000
an avenging Angel movie where like this woman who was

704
00:38:08,159 --> 00:38:11,920
murdered by a group of people miraculously re emerges and

705
00:38:12,199 --> 00:38:15,239
starts taking out these people one by one, kind of

706
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,519
like the Bridewoar Black, if she was avenging her own

707
00:38:18,559 --> 00:38:21,400
death and not her husband's. Sort of it's similar to that.

708
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,239
I love that movie. I have not seen the Dalomno version,

709
00:38:25,559 --> 00:38:27,880
but I remember seeing a trailer for like a nineteen

710
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,679
seventy six reissue that made it look wildly different than

711
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,079
I think it's supposed to be, because they edited the

712
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:37,480
trailer to make it look much more erotically charged than

713
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,119
I think it actually is. Well, I think it was

714
00:38:40,159 --> 00:38:43,320
called Devil in the Flesh is how they really Yeah,

715
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,440
that's a really good trailer, but I know when I

716
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:46,880
looked it up, I was like, oh, this is from

717
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,199
nineteen sixty nine, don't. I don't think it's I don't

718
00:38:50,199 --> 00:38:53,559
think it's as tantalizing as this trailer makes it look.

719
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe not.

720
00:38:54,559 --> 00:38:58,079
Speaker 3: It's Yeah, it's very stylish. I think it's it's more

721
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:02,440
accurate to the novel than obviously Franco's is, and this

722
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:08,719
one Marzano's is, and as Laura Antonelli as Wanda, which

723
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,760
is okay, I know, Casey, I'm not a big It's

724
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,599
a very sixty nine year old erotica update on Venus,

725
00:39:17,599 --> 00:39:21,840
and first I think it's pretty fun. Yeah, interesting, But yeah,

726
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,280
I haven't I don't know anything about these other later adaptations.

727
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,159
There's a looks like Scandinavian version that I've heard is

728
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:34,320
accurate from ninety four ish, and then a Korean one

729
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,719
from twenty twelve. Yeah, I'm surprised, you know, with that

730
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,760
whole like Korean horror boom, there could have been like

731
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,679
a really good maybe this is I don't know, this

732
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,360
is twenty twelve. I guess I'll have to seek it

733
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,559
out at some point. Maybe they do like a horror

734
00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:51,880
adaptation like Franco. Yeah, Franco's is such a horror movie.

735
00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:58,440
Franco's is not it's barely even a venus and first movie's.

736
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 6: Let's Franco for you. Franco was better at De Sad.

737
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,679
And that's the interesting thing. It's like, it's very interesting

738
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,000
that we have all these venus and first adaptations. I mean,

739
00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:06,679
Dasad was I think much more popular in terms of

740
00:40:06,679 --> 00:40:11,280
adaptations because his name equaled like depravity or whatever, and

741
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,119
it was, you know, pushing the boundaries of sexuality.

742
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,159
Speaker 3: And so yeah, yeah, on that note, Yeah, Jane, you

743
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,239
had said that you didn't hear of any censorship issues

744
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,679
with Leopold's book, and I think because it's not that smutty,

745
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,039
you know, I've it's short, I've read it. It's I

746
00:40:31,039 --> 00:40:36,639
don't know, maybe I expected more, but yeah, it's more psychological.

747
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 1: I don't know.

748
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 2: Wouldn't you say yeah?

749
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,199
Speaker 5: And I would also say that, you know, there's not

750
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,960
a lot of examples at this time, at this kind

751
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,360
of mid twentieth century period of bondage and fetish material

752
00:40:49,599 --> 00:40:52,840
coming to court for us. I mean, obviously things were happening,

753
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,920
like things are happening to Irving Law, things were happening

754
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,880
to some of the other publishers. But you know, one

755
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,920
of the reasons that the fetish industry grew so quickly.

756
00:41:01,199 --> 00:41:04,039
Was just the fact that this material is legal. You know,

757
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,159
you can't arrest somebody for having a pair of high

758
00:41:07,159 --> 00:41:10,840
heeled shoes, for example, And so that could be part

759
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,159
of the reason too why the book was kind of

760
00:41:13,199 --> 00:41:16,079
Ye are a few different reasons. One, there's no you know,

761
00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:20,360
it's not being published in the US. It's you know,

762
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:25,519
BDSM related, and as you say, it's more kind of

763
00:41:25,519 --> 00:41:27,159
a psychological m h.

764
00:41:27,679 --> 00:41:30,639
Speaker 3: And it's and it's a headal romance. I mean it's

765
00:41:30,679 --> 00:41:33,440
it's sort of a romance. So yeah, what would they

766
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,559
would they try to punish it for you?

767
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't even imagine.

768
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 3: But that's a good point that you made about like

769
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:46,840
fetish material is inherently like it's everyday objects, you know, sexualized, right, Yeah, yeah,

770
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:48,639
more or I need to read this.

771
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,079
Speaker 6: I haven't read this. I should have read it in preparation,

772
00:41:53,519 --> 00:41:55,480
but I didn't. I should have. You know, it's funny

773
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,760
because yeah, I've seen this version, and I've seen the

774
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,599
Franco version. I never thought to read that book, unlike

775
00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:04,360
the Dussod's, like Dasade, I've read philosophy in the Boudoir

776
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:06,599
and Justine. I mean they're very long, but.

777
00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:07,559
Speaker 2: I know you've read those.

778
00:42:10,519 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 6: Yeah no, yeah, no, I remember buying the Borders books.

779
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,519
That's how long ago I bought those. That's how long

780
00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:18,719
ago I bought the Dusods. There was a nice collection,

781
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,760
and I was mortified by them. I was like, oh

782
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,239
my god, Okay, they really went light in the film,

783
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,239
very since because you can't there's a lot of stuff

784
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:31,400
you can't shoot that's in the Dassod's books. So I'm intrigued. Yeah,

785
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,639
so I'm intrigued to apparently there aren't a lot of

786
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:36,800
faithful adaptations of this book, and so it made me think,

787
00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:39,960
is it unfilmable? But it doesn't sound It sounds like

788
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,639
if it's a lot of it is psychological, or a

789
00:42:41,639 --> 00:42:43,119
lot of it is. I mean a lot of books

790
00:42:43,119 --> 00:42:46,239
are like that, where it's it's not about dialogue and character.

791
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,920
It's kind of about like, you know, creating a mood

792
00:42:49,079 --> 00:42:51,920
and things like that, and that can't necessarily be translated

793
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,800
to a film by I mean, I.

794
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 3: Think it is more or less filmable. I mean the

795
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,320
Dolomano version he just hides. I think the big thing

796
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,360
is he hides a lot of the whipping behind objects,

797
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:05,280
you know, like a man will be he'll be whipped

798
00:43:06,039 --> 00:43:09,440
seven will be getting whipped behind like a futon or something.

799
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,559
You don't really see all of it, but I mean

800
00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:12,599
you can do that nowadays.

801
00:43:12,639 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: You could have done that. You can do that in uh,

802
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:16,719
you know sixty seven.

803
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,639
Speaker 6: With this version, well, it makes me think of like

804
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,239
other books kind of like what is it the Man

805
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,039
and Has Made which became not a Victorians, which that

806
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,800
was like a big that was a big thing that

807
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,000
was published under the counter.

808
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 2: They made into that hardcore movie, right they did.

809
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,679
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's that's kind of how you had to do it.

810
00:43:34,679 --> 00:43:36,800
And I think the image is based on a book too,

811
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,119
the Radley Metscer movie. The image I think that's based

812
00:43:40,159 --> 00:43:42,440
on a French book too. So like there are definitely

813
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:46,400
other other, you know, works of literature that have been

814
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,679
translated into like really rough films. So it's just interesting

815
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,639
that the versions of Bennie Furs that I've watched are

816
00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:55,679
not rough really, and so it's just it doesn't make

817
00:43:55,679 --> 00:43:58,480
me wonder like how rough is the book? But yeah,

818
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,679
it doesn't sound like it was saying, you know.

819
00:44:03,679 --> 00:44:05,559
Speaker 5: I've never had an out of blasshes.

820
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,559
Speaker 6: You fick Madre.

821
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: Hurry. Uh.

822
00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:27,599
Speaker 3: What do you think about this as an adaptation, Jane, Like,

823
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,519
what do you think they were going for here?

824
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:34,039
Speaker 5: Well, I mean the movie barely has anything this this

825
00:44:34,159 --> 00:44:36,679
version barely has anything at all to do with the book.

826
00:44:37,559 --> 00:44:40,039
I think it was kind of more of a a

827
00:44:41,519 --> 00:44:43,760
the choosing that, even as the title is kind of

828
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,519
more of like a catch all term or more of

829
00:44:45,559 --> 00:44:48,679
a trying to reel in somebody if you like this,

830
00:44:49,119 --> 00:44:52,039
then I know you'll like, you know what we're what

831
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:56,599
we're creating here. So yeah, so that was kind of interesting.

832
00:44:56,679 --> 00:44:59,519
But certainly, I mean, you know, the elements that remained

833
00:44:59,519 --> 00:45:01,960
the same, things like, you know, the main character being

834
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,400
a submissive man and that.

835
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:04,599
Speaker 6: Kind of thing. Yeah.

836
00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do think that this version has a lot

837
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,159
of foot fetish material.

838
00:45:10,599 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 5: I was gonna say I loved that instead of focusing

839
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,840
so much on the fur aspect, they really brought what

840
00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:20,320
was a very current and very popular fetish with the

841
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,239
mid twentieth century, which is foot fetishism and you know,

842
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,760
stockings and extreme high heels, bigging and you know, and

843
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,840
the fact that he's a shoe salesman and we get

844
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,280
the great, the great scene and the shoe store. I

845
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,320
just love that scene so much. Real yeah, around and

846
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,360
all the women are. It looked like something straight out

847
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,480
of like an Eric Stanton comic or something. It was

848
00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:41,079
really cool.

849
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 2: Casey, where was that shoe store? Did we identify that?

850
00:45:45,039 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 6: Yeah? Well, the interesting thing is so Capezzio. You see

851
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,639
the sign Capezio, and that was a real shoe store.

852
00:45:51,039 --> 00:45:54,079
But part of me wonders if it was a set.

853
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,119
I mean, that's the weird thing about the photography in

854
00:45:56,119 --> 00:45:58,639
this movie. It is shot with like one light and

855
00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:01,519
so it looks like everything is pitch black darkness at

856
00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:03,960
night except for the one light that's focusing and everything.

857
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,280
So I don't know if they shot it at the

858
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,960
Capezio store in the middle of the night when it

859
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,159
was closed, or if that was just a set to

860
00:46:11,199 --> 00:46:13,400
made up to look like a Capezio store. Well you

861
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,400
can see the boxes of shoes, So I'm just like,

862
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,280
that seems like a lot if they're they're gonna make

863
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,480
up a shoe store set. So I was googling Capeggio

864
00:46:22,039 --> 00:46:23,320
and I think.

865
00:46:23,639 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 5: Like, I'm shocked so that they were. I was surprised

866
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:27,559
when I saw it.

867
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,639
Speaker 6: I was very surprised. I was like, Oh, this is

868
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:32,639
a this is a, this is a place. At first

869
00:46:32,639 --> 00:46:35,119
I thought I was made up, you know, because but

870
00:46:35,199 --> 00:46:38,360
then I thought, well, no, they like to lease, they

871
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,840
can use a location. They'll definitely do it in New York.

872
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,400
And so at first I thought it was the Flagship Store,

873
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:44,960
which is in Manhattan, and I was like, I was

874
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,519
looking at the street and everything. I was like, this

875
00:46:46,559 --> 00:46:49,719
doesn't look like this doesn't look like the Manhattan location.

876
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,639
So I think it's the Long Island location in Rockville

877
00:46:52,639 --> 00:46:55,440
Center because that's where Marzana was originally from. So I

878
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,559
think he took everybody to Long Island, and I think

879
00:46:57,599 --> 00:47:00,199
that is probably there's a house on Long Island where

880
00:47:00,199 --> 00:47:02,519
I was shot, which that kind of makes sense to me.

881
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,800
But yeah, so I believe he took everyone to Long

882
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,679
Island and shot at the shoe store, maybe after dark,

883
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,840
like he shot the exterior of him coming in during

884
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,880
the day and then at night. I think he shot

885
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,039
the stuff at night. Probably.

886
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

887
00:47:18,519 --> 00:47:22,199
Speaker 3: Well, I'm always jealous of you know you New Yorker

888
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,639
because you always see locations that you've probably been to,

889
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,719
like the New York Public Library, Have you been there?

890
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,119
Speaker 6: I meet I meet people all the time at Bryant

891
00:47:31,159 --> 00:47:34,039
Park from meetings like I met Gerard Domiano there. The

892
00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:36,840
last time I saw him Junior was at Bryant Park

893
00:47:37,119 --> 00:47:40,679
and yeah, right around the corner NYPL. Yeah, and it's

894
00:47:40,679 --> 00:47:43,159
so crazy how that location really hasn't changed that much.

895
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,760
Like there's some some locations changed like crazy in New

896
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,599
York obviously because the city changes in morphs and things.

897
00:47:48,599 --> 00:47:52,199
But yeah, the NYPL Classic won't change. So I love

898
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,400
seeing it. And I think I can't believe that they

899
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:59,360
had the the brass ones to shoot at this location outdoors,

900
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,199
Like you know, there's a story where there's a story

901
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,840
where you know, they brought those they brought the women

902
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,000
to run towards him. It's like part of a fantasy

903
00:48:09,079 --> 00:48:11,159
that he that he has of all these women. It

904
00:48:11,199 --> 00:48:13,159
was supposed to be way more women than it was,

905
00:48:13,559 --> 00:48:15,880
so it's not as impactful because it's what like four

906
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,599
or five women, So like, oh, just a lot of

907
00:48:17,639 --> 00:48:19,840
women leave in the library. He wanted it to be

908
00:48:20,039 --> 00:48:23,800
like a cavalcade of women, Yeah, a horde of women.

909
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,920
And apparently there's a sequence at the end in the

910
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,119
montage you can see one of them, one of the

911
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:32,559
women is straddling the lion. Yeah, and he shot that

912
00:48:32,599 --> 00:48:35,280
sequence and apparently there was like a cop there and

913
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:36,719
they just shot it in front of the cop and

914
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,599
the cop didn't do anything. The cop was just kind

915
00:48:38,639 --> 00:48:40,920
of like, Oh, this is really crazy, this this girl

916
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,199
and like, you know, her her bron panties on top

917
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,199
of the lion. I was like, that's nineteen sixty six, sixty.

918
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: Seven, they create that photo.

919
00:48:52,119 --> 00:48:56,039
Speaker 6: That's the Lindsay era. That's the that's the Lindsay mayor

920
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,039
may oiel. Yeah, that's that's what it was like to

921
00:48:59,039 --> 00:49:01,320
be in New York when Lindsay was the mayor. Yeah,

922
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,960
you could do whatever you wanted. That was around the

923
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,960
time that the film commission was set up. I think

924
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,320
I think that was a Lindsay thing so before I

925
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,639
think that's before they started to be more you had

926
00:49:11,639 --> 00:49:14,039
to get like you know, permits and stuff through the

927
00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:16,960
film commission. I remember there's one exploctation we were at

928
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,480
the end of the movie it thanks Mayor Lindsay or like,

929
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,360
and I'm just like, that is crazy. Look, I know

930
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,880
you didn't get permits to shoot this, so it really

931
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,280
feels like a slap in the face of Mayor Lindsay, like, yeah,

932
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:32,079
we shot in your city, thank you for letting us yeah,

933
00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:34,519
and there's some other locations too in the subways like

934
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:37,639
that too. Actually, it looks like it was shot on

935
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,760
like an abandoned car, abandoned subway car in the middle

936
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,119
of the night, and it's like that single light and

937
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,280
it kind of adds to that dreamlike effect. Though it's like,

938
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,800
is this actually happening? It just seems like this is

939
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,400
a part of a fantasy because it's not. In case,

940
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,320
it was right exactly, so it's yeah, it's really The

941
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,079
style in this movie is so interesting.

942
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:00,559
Speaker 2: But that's what I like too, you know.

943
00:50:00,599 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 3: It introduces that aspect where it's like, well, this this

944
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,199
part of it, this was a fantasy at the beginning,

945
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,199
and then everything happens afterwards and you're kind of like, wait,

946
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,239
was this real too or not?

947
00:50:10,599 --> 00:50:14,679
Speaker 2: Because it's all shot the same so it keeps it consistent. Yeah,

948
00:50:14,679 --> 00:50:15,559
it's very surreal.

949
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 3: I bet that subway scene they just like went to

950
00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:21,519
the far back and they just like found a car

951
00:50:21,599 --> 00:50:24,199
that was unoccupied, just like, all right, let's shoot this

952
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:24,719
real quick.

953
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 6: I believe that.

954
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,599
Speaker 5: I love that subway scene and the part where when

955
00:50:28,599 --> 00:50:30,280
they're walking up the steps and he leans down and

956
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:35,079
bites that woman's ankle. I just so well. I just thought,

957
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:37,599
you know, even if you're not a foot fetishes, even

958
00:50:37,599 --> 00:50:40,199
if you don't care about feet and shoes, it's like,

959
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:41,840
how can you not look at the scene and not

960
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,679
be like that is a pretty sexy moment right there.

961
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 6: I agree, I'm the most boring vanilla person on the planet,

962
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,519
but there is stuff that is fetish stuff in movies,

963
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:55,280
and I'm just like, God, that looks great, got so

964
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,440
yeah yeah. And then that's when it's like, you know,

965
00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:00,960
I get it, I get it. I understand the communities

966
00:51:01,039 --> 00:51:03,519
and the appeal and everything. It's just like it just

967
00:51:03,559 --> 00:51:06,400
won't click in my head for me to actively do

968
00:51:06,519 --> 00:51:09,000
it myself. But seeing it the way that it's captured

969
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,039
cinematically is like, this is great. I totally understand the

970
00:51:12,079 --> 00:51:15,079
appeal of this. Yeah, when it's done well, it really

971
00:51:15,679 --> 00:51:19,280
it really captures that appeal really well. And that sequence

972
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,000
is great. Yeah, it's just kind of like, okay, yeah,

973
00:51:22,119 --> 00:51:25,400
I get it. That's really great. Well.

974
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,599
Speaker 3: Maybe that's like the question here with Marzano, like I

975
00:51:29,639 --> 00:51:33,239
wonder how much of this was a personal fetish thing

976
00:51:33,639 --> 00:51:37,039
or he's just appealing to a certain market.

977
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:37,679
Speaker 2: I don't know.

978
00:51:38,159 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 5: I feel a lot of love put into it at

979
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:43,920
the very least. You know, I don't like to speculator

980
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,360
about people's you know, personal right.

981
00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:47,679
Speaker 1: But.

982
00:51:49,559 --> 00:51:51,639
Speaker 5: There was there was a lot of care put into

983
00:51:51,639 --> 00:51:54,400
this movie, and I really appreciated that aspect of it.

984
00:51:55,079 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

985
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think looking at the history of how this

986
00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:01,280
was made, I think we can see that he maybe

987
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,960
felt like this was his shot. He's going to put

988
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,400
as much on on screen as he can, and that's

989
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:08,039
what we got.

990
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 2: Let's talk about Marzano here.

991
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:16,159
Speaker 6: Very interesting character, very strange, very strange character, and not

992
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,280
just yeah, I mean strange, and that he was a

993
00:52:20,519 --> 00:52:23,400
very I think you can kind of tell that he

994
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,400
is a very interesting and unique artist from this film.

995
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,639
And so I think when you're that kind of person

996
00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:31,880
that has a very distinctive point of view and a

997
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,559
very distinctive way you want films to be done, kind

998
00:52:35,559 --> 00:52:39,320
of like and not comparing them at all equally, but

999
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,719
kind of like an Orson Wells, where it's someone who's like,

1000
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,880
this is how I want it, this is the way

1001
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:44,679
I want to do it.

1002
00:52:45,199 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 2: I've seen that.

1003
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, So it's kind of like that when you're dealing

1004
00:52:48,519 --> 00:52:51,480
with somebody who has a distinctive point of view and

1005
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,599
a distinctive voice and they want to do something, but

1006
00:52:53,639 --> 00:52:55,320
then it also makes it very difficult for them to

1007
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,800
work with well with others. And that was kind of

1008
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,639
Marzano's problem, is that he couldn't really worked that well

1009
00:53:00,639 --> 00:53:04,760
with others. But he made so many different short films

1010
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,920
and things over the years, which I don't know where

1011
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:11,000
they went, which is very frustrating because so Barbara Ellen,

1012
00:53:11,079 --> 00:53:13,239
the star of this. The first thing she ever did

1013
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,039
was a short called Barbara which Joseph Marzano did, which

1014
00:53:17,079 --> 00:53:19,639
is an experimental short which is all just photos of

1015
00:53:19,679 --> 00:53:21,679
her in different poses, and it's like a love letter

1016
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,519
to Barbara Ellen. And I'm dying to see that because

1017
00:53:24,519 --> 00:53:26,880
I love Barbara Ellen, you know, I'm just like I

1018
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:28,800
want it. And I was nineteen sixty three, so it

1019
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,000
was like four years before this, So she was with

1020
00:53:31,079 --> 00:53:33,519
him for a while doing stuff for him, and there

1021
00:53:33,599 --> 00:53:35,960
must have been something about him that she trusted to

1022
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,639
stay with him through all these different projects, because she

1023
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,440
was with him before he started doing sexploitation, so she

1024
00:53:41,559 --> 00:53:43,719
must have trusted him to be like, sure, I'll follow

1025
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,360
you into sexploitation for cool at Baby and Venus and furs.

1026
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,320
And then she did movies with him after, so it

1027
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,480
wasn't a breaking point for their relationship.

1028
00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 3: That's the weirdest part of the Marzano story to me

1029
00:53:56,159 --> 00:53:59,840
is her involvement, you know, in helping script this and

1030
00:54:00,039 --> 00:54:01,760
you know, like you said, following him on a couple

1031
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,920
of projects, because you know, we hear all these stories

1032
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,320
about him from friends and co workers, and they do

1033
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,039
not have great things to say about him.

1034
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 6: The crews don't have the good stuff to say. I

1035
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,400
think that's the issue. Yeah, I think his his but

1036
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,599
his actors they followed him over the course of his

1037
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,440
entire career. They stayed with him. So something about his

1038
00:54:24,519 --> 00:54:27,280
work with the actors they trusted him. Something about the

1039
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,440
cruise They found him very difficult, And I wonder if

1040
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,480
it's because he wasn't really able to when you have

1041
00:54:32,599 --> 00:54:35,000
that many ideas and you're that creative, he might have

1042
00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:37,360
just had a problem being able to express those so

1043
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,639
Cruise could help him bring those to life. That might

1044
00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:42,920
have been the problem, you know, it might have been

1045
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:44,079
a communication issue.

1046
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:45,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point.

1047
00:54:45,519 --> 00:54:47,800
Speaker 6: But he worked very well with Lou Waldeck, who was

1048
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,760
the guy he worked with on Coola Baby, and he

1049
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,159
wanted him to shoot this, and he was already shooting

1050
00:54:53,199 --> 00:54:55,599
something else, so he had to get George Cirello. I

1051
00:54:55,639 --> 00:54:58,000
believe it was the cinematographer who we work with on

1052
00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:01,079
a few other things. Waldeck great, but I think the

1053
00:55:01,079 --> 00:55:03,440
photography in this didn't need to be Waldeck. I think

1054
00:55:03,519 --> 00:55:06,960
Sorella does a really good job. But Waldeck, even after

1055
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,880
he left Exploitation, continued working with him in his independent films.

1056
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,320
So yeah, he made good connections with people. I think

1057
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,199
it was just I think the people who were in

1058
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,679
charge of things in terms of like financing and distribution,

1059
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,800
they did not get along with him. So you know,

1060
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,440
you kind of have to deal with these very difficult

1061
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,920
egomaniacs in production and distribution, and when you have an

1062
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,480
ego like him, but he can back as ego up

1063
00:55:33,519 --> 00:55:35,400
these other people in the film business. You know, they

1064
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,000
have money and the money is the ego.

1065
00:55:38,559 --> 00:55:42,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll have to get Jane Cool at Baby. I

1066
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,400
think she might like that one. It's a little cool.

1067
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:48,079
The Baby's not bad cool here, Yeah, yeah.

1068
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,800
Speaker 5: I seen that one yet, Yeah.

1069
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 6: It's not bad. I would think Mini Skirt Love. I

1070
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,079
prefer Mini Skirt Love just because well that stars Janet Bansa,

1071
00:55:57,199 --> 00:55:59,679
who is one of the one of the doms in

1072
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,159
this She so she has she She's in Miniskirt Love.

1073
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,840
She plays an aunt took home to take care of

1074
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,119
her nephew and they fall in love and then yeah,

1075
00:56:09,159 --> 00:56:11,360
I mean she's a little young to be playing that part,

1076
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:15,639
but uh and cool at baby. Yeah, it's like it's

1077
00:56:15,679 --> 00:56:18,760
like a big blackmail story with Barbara Ellen is a

1078
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:24,199
blackmail victim of uh yeah, this guy who's in the syndicate. Yeah,

1079
00:56:24,199 --> 00:56:25,440
she's good in it, of course.

1080
00:56:25,639 --> 00:56:26,079
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1081
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:26,639
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1082
00:56:26,679 --> 00:56:28,679
Speaker 3: What did you think about the lead Barbara Allen in

1083
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:32,960
this Jane? I mean, she doesn't get I think it

1084
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,440
was noted in a story as well that she refused

1085
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,440
to do nudity. But you know, when I think back

1086
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,360
at the film, I'm like, oh, I had to think

1087
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:41,679
about it.

1088
00:56:41,679 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 2: Wait, did she get nude or not?

1089
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 3: But she doesn't, but she's it's risky enough where you

1090
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,679
kind of think she did, you know, Yeah, yeah.

1091
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,559
Speaker 5: Well yeah, I mean there were so many parts of

1092
00:56:50,559 --> 00:56:52,840
this movie where I was like surprised by how much

1093
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,719
how far they were going through nineteen sixty seven kind of.

1094
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,679
But yeah, I really liked her. I liked everybody in

1095
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:06,079
this everybody seemed, you know, which was nice.

1096
00:57:06,599 --> 00:57:09,679
Speaker 6: Yeah, that well, Barbara. The thing about Barbi, yeah, I

1097
00:57:09,679 --> 00:57:12,239
guess I forgot she didn't ununity either. I think because

1098
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:17,360
she is so captivating as a lead that I'm I

1099
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,320
actually kind of wasn't even expecting her to dimunity because

1100
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:22,360
the fact that he was so enamored of her was like, yeah,

1101
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,880
I get it, like she's yes, she's great. I would

1102
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,719
I would get in her cargo wherever she wanted to, like,

1103
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:32,039
you know, I you know, and I yeah, yeah, I

1104
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:34,920
think he casts very well. But also the fact that

1105
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:38,239
she that she wrote it or helped him write it,

1106
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,960
meant that she helped to create this character, that she

1107
00:57:41,039 --> 00:57:43,480
knew that she could do what she wanted with this character, so.

1108
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:44,599
Speaker 2: She can call the shots a bit.

1109
00:57:44,719 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, yes, so she knew I don't have to do

1110
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,679
nunity because there's gonna be other people to do that.

1111
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,480
I will just say the central figure that is his obsession,

1112
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,079
and that's perfectly fine, you know.

1113
00:57:55,679 --> 00:57:59,119
Speaker 5: Which, and truthfully, being kind of like the dominant figure there,

1114
00:57:59,199 --> 00:58:01,760
it's better that she's that she's not being nude, you know.

1115
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,000
It kind of adds a little something to the character too.

1116
00:58:04,159 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 6: I think, yeah, he does more disrobing than she does,

1117
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:13,079
like you know, he really is flipped, And I'm like, great,

1118
00:58:13,519 --> 00:58:16,840
yeah I was, we'll go into it. But I was

1119
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,360
researching this guy and I found him and he died

1120
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,760
a couple of years ago during COVID at ninety one

1121
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:28,239
years old. A competitive bodybuilder competed in Mister Universe. Shep Wild,

1122
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,400
Yes he has. Apparently he told stories about making movies

1123
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:34,360
to his his friends and family, and I'm just like,

1124
00:58:34,719 --> 00:58:37,239
where was I? So I need to reach out to

1125
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,000
his family, his family and see. Also, he apparently was

1126
00:58:40,039 --> 00:58:45,519
a very popular model at like like around New York,

1127
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,079
so that I think you're talking about, yes, but also

1128
00:58:49,119 --> 00:58:51,400
photography clubs. So then I'm kind of like, Okay, well

1129
00:58:51,559 --> 00:58:53,840
where are the photos of him? Because it's I can't

1130
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,119
find any photos of him at least under that under

1131
00:58:56,159 --> 00:58:59,519
his real name. So I'm like, did he work with

1132
00:58:59,559 --> 00:59:03,760
any of the New York based like fetish photographers that

1133
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:04,440
I know of?

1134
00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:04,679
Speaker 1: That?

1135
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 6: Like, I think Tashin's released a bunch of those two.

1136
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:08,679
So now I need to go look in all those

1137
00:59:08,679 --> 00:59:10,960
books that I have in my on my bookshelf and

1138
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:17,599
see if I can spotsheit Wild maybe Oh sure, yes,

1139
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,559
I mean I look through them anyway, but yeah, any

1140
00:59:20,599 --> 00:59:25,559
reason to go back then, sure, but he was older

1141
00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:29,000
when he did this. He and Bella Donna, who is

1142
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,199
also in this movie. She so, Bella Donna is the

1143
00:59:32,199 --> 00:59:36,039
actress that's straddling the lion, and she's a little older.

1144
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:37,760
She's also one of the doms in this too with

1145
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,840
Janet Bansit. So she was born in nineteen twenty four,

1146
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,639
so in this movie she's forty three years old. And

1147
00:59:47,159 --> 00:59:50,480
she was very into like health foods and alternative medicine,

1148
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:54,559
so she doesn't look forty three like she She's able

1149
00:59:54,639 --> 00:59:58,199
to run with these twenty year olds and have fun,

1150
00:59:58,239 --> 01:00:00,599
and she was very She's very popular with director named

1151
01:00:00,639 --> 01:00:04,119
Joe Sarno, so I was able to find her. Unfortunately

1152
01:00:04,159 --> 01:00:06,880
she passed away. But she was like a She was

1153
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:09,119
a model in Hollywood, Like she went out on dates

1154
01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:11,719
with like Rock Hudson and stuff in the fifties before

1155
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,800
she came out to New York to do sexploitation. And

1156
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,639
I actually just emailed her daughter before we started recording,

1157
01:00:17,679 --> 01:00:19,639
and I was like, I want to know about Wait,

1158
01:00:19,719 --> 01:00:20,679
your mom's modeling.

1159
01:00:20,719 --> 01:00:23,519
Speaker 2: Are you saying she was a beard to Rock Hudson?

1160
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 6: Yes, but she also dated some other people. I'm trying

1161
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:30,119
to remember now because there was a So she's originally

1162
01:00:30,119 --> 01:00:33,880
from Dayton, Ohio, and she relocated to New York and

1163
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,599
then in nineteen eighty one she relocated at Dateton, Ohio.

1164
01:00:36,599 --> 01:00:39,280
And there's an interview she said she did lots of

1165
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:41,880
studio publicity stuff with the likes of Tony Curtis and

1166
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,639
Rock Hudson, and then she came to New York and

1167
01:00:44,679 --> 01:00:47,280
she modeled for twenty years, and there's no mention of

1168
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,920
the films in there, but you know, that's kind of

1169
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,199
what she did. So she came back to Daton, Ohio

1170
01:00:53,239 --> 01:00:56,159
and worked at a natural a natural food place before

1171
01:00:56,199 --> 01:00:59,159
she died in twenty thirteen. But yeah, I emailed her

1172
01:00:59,199 --> 01:01:00,719
daughter and I was like, I'd like to know about

1173
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:04,440
your mom's modeling, And yeah, I left it at that

1174
01:01:04,519 --> 01:01:06,360
because when you were reaching out to family members and

1175
01:01:06,559 --> 01:01:09,800
family members might not know that that included films. So

1176
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,920
I just wanted to know about the modeling. So we'll

1177
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:13,760
see where that goes.

1178
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,519
Speaker 3: So shep Wilde was a like a rot. Was it

1179
01:01:17,559 --> 01:01:20,320
like erotic stuff? Do you think is modeling work?

1180
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 6: I mean, if it was, if he was like a

1181
01:01:22,599 --> 01:01:26,400
regular bodybuilder, like he competed for Mister Universe, he competed

1182
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,199
for oh gosh, what else, mister Eastern North America. He

1183
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,159
was in the army. He was also a professional massage

1184
01:01:33,199 --> 01:01:36,000
therapists and he was like a go to physical physical

1185
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,880
director to the stars. Because I found an advertisement in

1186
01:01:39,039 --> 01:01:42,920
nineteen fifty seven Billboard which has massage, reduce and relax

1187
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:45,960
scientific treatment in his real name in New York. So

1188
01:01:46,039 --> 01:01:49,280
when he's doing that massage in the film, yeah, that's

1189
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,079
what he did. Yeah. So when he wasn't, when he

1190
01:01:52,119 --> 01:01:54,880
wasn't doing modeling work for photography and artists and stuff

1191
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:59,920
like that, he was a very popular massure for people apparently.

1192
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,239
So his obituary is interesting. So the last line of

1193
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,880
the obituary that his family put together Joe lived, his

1194
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:12,280
name was Joe Joe koit Tila was his real name.

1195
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:16,719
Born in nineteen twenty nine, So again he is thirty

1196
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,000
nine when he did this, thirty eight, so a little older.

1197
01:02:20,239 --> 01:02:23,360
For this film says Joe lived a full and interesting

1198
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:25,400
life for which he loved to tell stories about. He

1199
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,199
loved a joke and make people laugh. He was always positive.

1200
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:31,000
Joe never complained about anything, not even when he should have.

1201
01:02:32,239 --> 01:02:34,599
And then his in laws commented in this obituary and said,

1202
01:02:34,639 --> 01:02:37,400
Joe was a positive and kind man. We enjoyed his company,

1203
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,480
his stories of the past, his passion for fitness, and

1204
01:02:39,519 --> 01:02:42,920
his voracious appetite. He always talked about his acting career,

1205
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:46,000
his love for Marily Minuro, Frank Sinatra, and the celebrities

1206
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,119
he met as a masseuse. He will be sorely missed.

1207
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,960
So let's sweet massage marily Monroe and Frank Sinatra and

1208
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:55,800
other people. But his acting career, this is his acting career.

1209
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,280
You know he did this. He was in too, Joe

1210
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:02,119
Sarno movie. He was in Flying Now Pay Later, So

1211
01:03:02,159 --> 01:03:04,159
maybe he knew the directed that. We're trying to figure

1212
01:03:04,159 --> 01:03:04,920
that out, Gentry.

1213
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 3: I think he actually talks in that. I think he's

1214
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,280
just the man in the dream, right, yeah, just in

1215
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:10,119
the clouds.

1216
01:03:10,599 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, but he's in it. So it sounds like you

1217
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:14,880
remembered stuff. So I need to reach out to the

1218
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,519
kids to see. Yeah, if he talked that much, then

1219
01:03:18,519 --> 01:03:22,039
they have probably have stories they could share. Because I'm

1220
01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:24,519
obsessed with himous for obviously.

1221
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 3: I mean even as a even as a straight man.

1222
01:03:27,199 --> 01:03:29,840
I want to see his early photos just to see

1223
01:03:30,599 --> 01:03:33,599
too how they were set up. Like I mean, Jane,

1224
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:37,079
what was what would be the market for back then?

1225
01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:39,880
What was out there for? Like, you know, if a

1226
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:44,119
guy wanted to see shep wild, you know, shirtless in

1227
01:03:44,239 --> 01:03:46,679
a you know, a magazine, where would you find that?

1228
01:03:47,039 --> 01:03:49,559
Speaker 5: I mean there were a lot of bodybuilder magazines.

1229
01:03:50,119 --> 01:03:52,519
Speaker 3: It would be marketed for like it would be marketed

1230
01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:56,840
as a bodybuilding magazine, but it would be yeah, understood

1231
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,840
that it was marketed also for like the gay community.

1232
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:03,239
Speaker 6: Right exactly, Yeah, it's coded yeah.

1233
01:04:04,519 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 5: Exactly. And then you know also I think obviously I

1234
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:11,119
think Casey could speak more on this, but you know,

1235
01:04:11,159 --> 01:04:15,800
in the nineteen fifties there were some gay magazines that

1236
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:20,760
were brought before the Supreme Court for obscenity. In the

1237
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,039
most famous case would be One magazine, which is kind

1238
01:04:23,079 --> 01:04:25,679
of seen as as I don't know, is it the

1239
01:04:25,679 --> 01:04:28,840
first casey or one of the first homo file?

1240
01:04:29,239 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, homo file was the word they liked to

1241
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,239
use too. Yeah, it was like, yeah, it was very

1242
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:35,960
that and I think it was that was the first

1243
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:37,559
case of its type. I think they were trying to

1244
01:04:37,559 --> 01:04:40,079
make an example of it, and they won the case.

1245
01:04:40,159 --> 01:04:40,679
I mean they.

1246
01:04:42,119 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 5: This is not obscene. This can go through the mail,

1247
01:04:45,039 --> 01:04:47,440
it can retain its mailing privileges and all of that.

1248
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:51,400
So you know, now one magazines, the issues that I've

1249
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:54,519
seen don't have you know, sexy photos inside of them

1250
01:04:54,519 --> 01:04:57,519
of bodybuilders. But yeah, that's just kind of another example

1251
01:04:57,559 --> 01:04:59,760
of the kind of material that was out there for

1252
01:05:00,119 --> 01:05:03,920
FORK And then we're also some lesbian magazines as well,

1253
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:05,639
but yeah, that's the type of material that was.

1254
01:05:05,679 --> 01:05:11,079
Speaker 6: In Yeah, the big one I know that is Bob Meser,

1255
01:05:11,239 --> 01:05:13,800
but that there are so many more other than Bob Meser.

1256
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,599
I mean, Bob Meser was Athletic Model Guild, but there

1257
01:05:16,599 --> 01:05:19,559
were New York photographers, there were Florida photographer. It was

1258
01:05:19,599 --> 01:05:21,880
kind of like exploitation. They had them, They had you

1259
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,880
had photographers in all the major metro areas, not just Hollywood.

1260
01:05:26,119 --> 01:05:28,599
But that's and that's why I'm kind of that's why

1261
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:30,480
I'm dying to talk to his kids because I'm like,

1262
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,239
and also googling that very specific name, it doesn't come

1263
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,039
up with a lot. So I'm just like, is this

1264
01:05:36,079 --> 01:05:40,800
an undiscovered gem that like the bodybuilding fetish community doesn't

1265
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:44,119
even know about? Like if there's photos, I know a

1266
01:05:44,159 --> 01:05:46,199
lot of men that would want to see them. So

1267
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:49,840
maybe it's time to get on that trying to you know.

1268
01:05:50,239 --> 01:05:52,519
Speaker 2: I bet you'll be able if you can find photos.

1269
01:05:52,559 --> 01:05:54,239
Speaker 3: I bet there will be one with him in that

1270
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:56,599
same Tarzan underwear.

1271
01:05:57,079 --> 01:05:59,599
Speaker 2: I bet I bet that was in his uh, in

1272
01:05:59,639 --> 01:06:00,360
his real rotation.

1273
01:06:01,199 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 6: We can also, I hope so yes, I hope that

1274
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,519
he that was part of his personal wardrobe. Yeah, so yeah,

1275
01:06:08,559 --> 01:06:09,920
he just took it with him every where he went.

1276
01:06:12,039 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 7: You are the one who desires.

1277
01:06:14,199 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 4: We are the ones who are desired.

1278
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 7: This is woman's entire advantage, with something in you that

1279
01:06:19,039 --> 01:06:20,480
makes me want to punish you.

1280
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 6: Dominate you.

1281
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:23,559
Speaker 5: You shall be bound.

1282
01:06:23,639 --> 01:06:30,559
Speaker 3: With stalking, sound and helpless, gad trodden, unload till you

1283
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:31,400
can love.

1284
01:06:32,079 --> 01:06:36,679
Speaker 1: Then you may kiss my breast, my mouth, But first.

1285
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:39,599
Speaker 7: My told you should be hotly and you shall feel

1286
01:06:39,599 --> 01:06:50,159
the pressure of mine without mercy, No, no losing.

1287
01:06:50,719 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 3: Okay, what else do we want to cover?

1288
01:06:54,519 --> 01:06:55,199
Speaker 2: On Marzano?

1289
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 6: I mean, oh yeah, I kind of detoured. Sorry, sorry,

1290
01:06:59,519 --> 01:07:04,079
bead on it. Uh And Sheck Wilde distracted me. Well,

1291
01:07:04,079 --> 01:07:05,639
the big thing that he did was a movie called

1292
01:07:05,679 --> 01:07:08,239
Man Outside, and that was kind of his calling card.

1293
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:10,880
He did that in nineteen sixty five and that was

1294
01:07:11,039 --> 01:07:14,800
Barbara Allen was involved with that. The drag queen in

1295
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:17,920
this which is Bob what's his face and his wife

1296
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,039
were involved with that. A lot of the people that

1297
01:07:20,119 --> 01:07:22,079
he took and a lot of the cast and cool

1298
01:07:22,079 --> 01:07:24,760
At Baby were also in that. So he he used

1299
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:26,440
that as his calling card to try to be like, well,

1300
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,920
I can make a movie, and I can do it cheaply.

1301
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,199
I don't know, well, yeah, I don't even know where

1302
01:07:31,199 --> 01:07:32,360
to get a hold of it. A lot of his

1303
01:07:32,559 --> 01:07:34,320
I don't know where his stuff went. I'd have to

1304
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:37,760
reach out to probably Nathan Shift for that, because Nathan

1305
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:39,760
Shift sounds like the person who was the closest to

1306
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:45,519
him before he passed away. But yeah, so cool At

1307
01:07:45,559 --> 01:07:48,280
Baby was his first one, and that was kind of

1308
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:52,320
his introductionist exploitation. And I think that the producer Luke

1309
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,000
Kampa on that was so impressed by the way he

1310
01:07:54,039 --> 01:07:56,719
was able to do stuff really quickly and efficiently on

1311
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:58,639
a low budget. He was kind of like, Okay, go

1312
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:01,280
nuts with this movie. Here's ten k. You can do

1313
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:03,679
any movie you want. He brought it in under budget.

1314
01:08:04,199 --> 01:08:05,719
He got ten k I think it was he got

1315
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,679
in for eighty five fifty was the final budget on that,

1316
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,559
which is impressive for a movie that looks this good

1317
01:08:12,599 --> 01:08:15,840
that it's that cheap. But yeah, he eventually of Venus

1318
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,680
and First. Lu Campa, his producer, I think, got so

1319
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:20,399
fed up with him because he had a lot of

1320
01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:23,199
great ideas but not the budget of the ability to

1321
01:08:23,239 --> 01:08:26,880
get them done efficiently or quickly. So he brought it

1322
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:28,520
in under budget, but there was still a lot of

1323
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:30,640
stuff that he still wanted to do that he couldn't do.

1324
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,920
So this is kind of It's not one hundred percent

1325
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:35,840
of the movie he wanted to do, but it's close.

1326
01:08:36,279 --> 01:08:38,840
But I think his issues with Lukampa led to Luke

1327
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:40,760
Caampa and not wanted to work with him, And I

1328
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,840
think he used Venus and First as another calling card

1329
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:45,800
to go to other distributors. He went to Sam Lake

1330
01:08:46,199 --> 01:08:48,439
and then he went to Joseph Brenner, and the Brenner

1331
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:52,119
meeting was disastrous, and so that was it. He had

1332
01:08:52,159 --> 01:08:53,800
Like I think Joe Brenner kicked him out of his

1333
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:55,479
office and was like, I don't know who you think

1334
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:57,520
you are, a get out of my office. And Joe, Yeah,

1335
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:01,640
Joe Brenner notoriously difficult anyway, so not the best producer.

1336
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:03,399
Maybe he should have probably gone to stand board and

1337
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,399
stand Bordon might have been more, might have been nicer

1338
01:09:06,399 --> 01:09:06,720
to him.

1339
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 2: Wasn't there something in that?

1340
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:08,079
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1341
01:09:08,079 --> 01:09:09,720
Speaker 2: I was in Brenner's office.

1342
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 3: He was acting all high and mighty, saying like, yes,

1343
01:09:13,159 --> 01:09:15,359
I don't pull my own cable, other people do that,

1344
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:17,000
and kind of acting like no.

1345
01:09:17,199 --> 01:09:20,560
Speaker 6: He told he told him, you'll have to pull your

1346
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:23,439
weight on my set. He told the distributor, Joe Brenner,

1347
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:25,760
you will have to help me, and he said, I

1348
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:29,560
don't do that. He's like, no, no, I won't, and

1349
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:31,159
I think kicked him out of the office. He's like,

1350
01:09:31,239 --> 01:09:33,560
that's not how this business works. You need to crank

1351
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,159
these out quick because we have product to get into

1352
01:09:36,199 --> 01:09:38,319
the theaters. We need to we have a schedule. We

1353
01:09:38,399 --> 01:09:41,239
got to get stuff in there while the iron's hot.

1354
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:44,840
And uh, yeah, Marzano that his temperament was not made

1355
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:48,079
for this business. He really wasn't. I wish he'd made

1356
01:09:48,119 --> 01:09:51,800
more movies like this that weren't necessarily. It makes me

1357
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:53,680
wonder what he could do if he didn't have to

1358
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,199
deal with like market demands, you know, for these, Like

1359
01:09:56,239 --> 01:10:00,159
if he wanted to do another Marzano movie. Like, I

1360
01:10:00,239 --> 01:10:02,520
just wonder if he could have done like something artsy,

1361
01:10:03,119 --> 01:10:05,840
I don't know, like a Jack Smith maybe, or there

1362
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,159
are a lot of like independent filmmakers in New York.

1363
01:10:08,239 --> 01:10:12,279
I mean, the Warhol years were happening then, and I

1364
01:10:13,319 --> 01:10:15,800
just think he was very difficult, you know. I think

1365
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:16,880
he's very difficult to deal with.

1366
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:21,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was apparently really proud of that scene, the

1367
01:10:21,279 --> 01:10:25,479
bathtub milk scene. On rewatching it, it's like it's very

1368
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,039
nicely framed, but I don't know, it doesn't stand out

1369
01:10:28,159 --> 01:10:29,720
that much to me. I don't know why he was

1370
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:30,720
so proud of that one.

1371
01:10:31,199 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 6: I think, you know, sometimes there are directors who really

1372
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:37,039
will remember things a certain way. Yeah, that might be

1373
01:10:37,119 --> 01:10:39,199
what it is, or he remembered it so vividly in

1374
01:10:39,239 --> 01:10:42,039
his head because there's that's another story that was told

1375
01:10:42,079 --> 01:10:45,279
for years. He knew that Harry Novak bought the movie,

1376
01:10:45,319 --> 01:10:45,880
so he's trying to.

1377
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 3: Get copies of his movie in it for so long.

1378
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 6: And he I don't think I think it took him

1379
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,479
forever to finally get copies of them, if he ever did. So,

1380
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:56,640
it's possible he's remembering something the way it was on

1381
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:59,399
the set or the way he saw theatrically and then

1382
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,720
hadn't read visited for like forty years before he passed away.

1383
01:11:03,039 --> 01:11:06,399
Speaker 3: Like you know, so in that scene, yeah, Barbara Allen

1384
01:11:06,399 --> 01:11:09,520
has like the mask on. Is there any examples that

1385
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:11,920
you can think of, Jane, like in magazines, like was

1386
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:12,880
that a common thing?

1387
01:11:13,319 --> 01:11:13,439
Speaker 1: Oh?

1388
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:18,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, especially if you see photos from the nineteenth century

1389
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:21,880
or the very early twentieth century, like up to you know,

1390
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,840
the nineteen thirties and forties, a lot the little black

1391
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:28,840
eye mask is is pretty iconic. You know, typically it

1392
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:30,359
was just used as a way to kind of hide

1393
01:11:30,399 --> 01:11:34,479
somebody's identity, at least that's the assumption you know people

1394
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:38,279
that maybe and the reason it was particularly in that

1395
01:11:38,359 --> 01:11:40,880
early part is because you know, it was much less

1396
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:44,920
common for people to be posing nude or to be Yeah, yeah,

1397
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:47,600
of course modeling for these sort of risk a photographs,

1398
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:49,399
and there were there was a potential to get a

1399
01:11:49,399 --> 01:11:50,239
lot more trouble too.

1400
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:52,640
Speaker 3: Who was that girl in that scene, Casey, did you

1401
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,840
identify her that sort of like fuller figured girl in

1402
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:56,600
the bathtub you.

1403
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:57,279
Speaker 2: Know what I'm talking about?

1404
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,319
Speaker 6: Blond, but I do, Yeah, the blonde. It wasn't It

1405
01:12:01,359 --> 01:12:04,479
wasn't Yolanda and a Wi. I don't think it's because

1406
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,920
Yolanda is in this. Yolanda Siniorrelli is the in the

1407
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:10,399
shoe store, but then she shows up later as as

1408
01:12:10,399 --> 01:12:14,760
a blonde like in the forest with Barbara Ellen. She

1409
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:17,079
was like nineteen when she did this movie, which is crazy,

1410
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:19,000
very young.

1411
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,119
Speaker 3: But there's a lot of different body types in this movie.

1412
01:12:22,319 --> 01:12:24,479
I don't think there's any I don't think there's any.

1413
01:12:24,399 --> 01:12:27,159
Speaker 2: Black women in this that I spotted in the background.

1414
01:12:27,199 --> 01:12:31,159
Speaker 6: No Natara, no Natara, that would have to think it

1415
01:12:31,199 --> 01:12:34,520
was I think so it would have been helpful. Yeah,

1416
01:12:35,079 --> 01:12:38,439
but I'm also surprised by the drag in this, which

1417
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:45,600
is interesting. Yeah, because when I when you're watching movies

1418
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:47,600
like this, like like when we cover all these different

1419
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,399
expotation movies, like we know who the general target audience

1420
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:53,720
is for. It's for like especially in this era, it's

1421
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,479
like straight dude who fought in World War two, like,

1422
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,960
so like you know, it's old, it's old, pasty baby boomer,

1423
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:04,600
male baby boomers. So then you realize, like, okay, so

1424
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:07,039
that's the audience. And then they have to see this

1425
01:13:07,159 --> 01:13:09,439
massage scene and then they have to see a drag

1426
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:14,119
performer is that scene as an element of humor in

1427
01:13:14,159 --> 01:13:17,199
the film or is that scene as like another another

1428
01:13:17,239 --> 01:13:20,039
fetish because there were like cross stressing magazines and things

1429
01:13:20,119 --> 01:13:21,800
I think, right, Jane around that time.

1430
01:13:22,039 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 5: Absolutely yes. In fact, one of the major publishers, Leonard Bertman,

1431
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:30,000
who you guys know produced Satan and High Heels. Bertman

1432
01:13:30,159 --> 01:13:32,880
had a magazine called Female Mimics for a number of

1433
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:37,199
years during this year sixties, and Female Mimics was actually

1434
01:13:37,199 --> 01:13:40,640
a pretty sensitively done magazine. I really like it has

1435
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:44,840
some great imagery and it has some great uh some

1436
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:49,199
performers that are kind of still known today. But yeah,

1437
01:13:49,239 --> 01:13:51,560
I didn't feel like it was I didn't feel like

1438
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:55,000
the drag and stuff was added in as a humor element.

1439
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:58,119
In fact, one of the things that really impressed me

1440
01:13:58,159 --> 01:14:01,079
about this movie was that it felt almost like looking

1441
01:14:01,159 --> 01:14:05,560
at a fetish magazine like Bizarre, which was John Willie's magazine,

1442
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:09,279
and one of the things he focused on with Bizarre

1443
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,439
was covering a wide range of fetishes. He always said,

1444
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,039
you know, there's what I like. He was personally interested

1445
01:14:16,079 --> 01:14:19,640
in high heels and stockings and bondage, but he didn't

1446
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:22,359
limit the magazine to that. He tried to have as

1447
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,880
broad appeal as possible. And that's kind of what I

1448
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:27,840
felt like this movie was doing. Adding in all this

1449
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:32,239
different stuff. It's almost like a little smorgas board for

1450
01:14:32,319 --> 01:14:34,760
whoever might be in the audience, and maybe you even

1451
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:37,039
find something new that you didn't know you liked because

1452
01:14:37,079 --> 01:14:39,279
you hadn't been exposed to it before. I just I

1453
01:14:39,319 --> 01:14:40,359
really liked that element.

1454
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:44,079
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, well. Then I also well, and I don't know,

1455
01:14:45,359 --> 01:14:47,319
is there food in this too? Is there like food

1456
01:14:47,319 --> 01:14:50,439
fetish stuff in this sort of there might be the

1457
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:53,920
party scene that maybe a little Yeah, I mean, it

1458
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:57,039
really does feel like there's just you're right, it is

1459
01:14:57,119 --> 01:14:58,960
just like a little bit of everything. It is like

1460
01:14:59,319 --> 01:15:01,439
it is like a board or like a it's like

1461
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:04,920
a fetish shark utery, yeah something, you know. It's like,

1462
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:06,520
let's get a little of this, a little of that,

1463
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:09,079
see where it goes. And it all really works all

1464
01:15:09,119 --> 01:15:12,600
really well together. Like it doesn't stop cold or feel awkward.

1465
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:15,640
It doesn't. It also does not feel like something that

1466
01:15:16,119 --> 01:15:18,279
a novice is just throwing into a movie to meet

1467
01:15:18,279 --> 01:15:19,119
a market demand.

1468
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:22,600
Speaker 5: Right, right, let's see what it didn't have that feel?

1469
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:25,560
Speaker 6: I agree, Yeah, it feels like something that he was

1470
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,000
at the very least for he was at least on

1471
01:15:28,039 --> 01:15:31,359
a surface level, familiar with all of it enough to

1472
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:36,119
make it feel authentic in this and not like, you know, pretend.

1473
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:40,279
Obviously it's all pretend, but it definitely doesn't feel like, Okay, well,

1474
01:15:40,399 --> 01:15:43,000
this audience is going to expect like this lesbian scene,

1475
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:46,119
so let's throw it in there. Like everything really merges

1476
01:15:46,199 --> 01:15:51,720
really well together as an experience, which is not common.

1477
01:15:53,319 --> 01:15:56,359
Speaker 5: It kind of adds to that off center feel where

1478
01:15:57,479 --> 01:16:00,279
or unbalanced, you know, like the main character is of

1479
01:16:00,319 --> 01:16:02,640
thinking what the hell is you know, going on and

1480
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:05,279
looking from room to room and being startled. It kind

1481
01:16:05,279 --> 01:16:07,840
of gives the viewer that same field that the character

1482
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:08,800
is experiencing.

1483
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like an erotic funhouse. Yeah, yeah, right.

1484
01:16:13,239 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 6: But I also think it's interesting because at this time,

1485
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,760
like well this is sixty seven, so we're dealing with

1486
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:22,840
we're like at the start of the really rough Ruffies

1487
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:26,880
where it really is about hurting women and punishing women.

1488
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,800
Because before that, the new dqts are kind of like

1489
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:32,039
looking at the women, and so the Ruffies are the

1490
01:16:32,079 --> 01:16:33,680
opposite of that. It's like, well, we don't want to

1491
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:37,000
just look at women. You would think the natural progression

1492
01:16:37,079 --> 01:16:38,479
is well, now I want to have sex with this

1493
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:40,399
woman because I've been looking at her. No's you want

1494
01:16:40,399 --> 01:16:43,119
to punish this woman for whatever reason. It's all about punishment.

1495
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:46,840
And it's interesting because this movie doesn't really have that.

1496
01:16:47,199 --> 01:16:49,960
It has a lot more women in positions of power,

1497
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:52,880
and not the kind of thing where it's like Findlay,

1498
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:56,960
where it's a central misogynist who is targeting women and

1499
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,760
brutally killing them like it's it's very interesting to note

1500
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:04,079
that this film doesn't want to take that route, which

1501
01:17:04,119 --> 01:17:07,439
is expected, and as the market is turning in that direction.

1502
01:17:08,079 --> 01:17:10,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the last shot of the movie is

1503
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:13,920
is you know the woman is still alive? Thank god? Right,

1504
01:17:14,199 --> 01:17:15,560
And a lot of these movies they're not.

1505
01:17:16,319 --> 01:17:21,199
Speaker 6: So yes, yeah, sometimes there are no survivors like touts

1506
01:17:21,199 --> 01:17:25,399
are for flash and cursive for flash, right, exactly, rough stuff.

1507
01:17:26,319 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 1: I keep thinking of last night, all the things you

1508
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:33,720
get to the way you began to take the coursely.

1509
01:17:33,399 --> 01:17:34,199
Speaker 4: Like a really.

1510
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:41,279
Speaker 5: Okay, see, I'm so unhappy news.

1511
01:17:42,159 --> 01:17:45,199
Speaker 3: I've always been always.

1512
01:17:46,079 --> 01:17:51,439
Speaker 6: Oho. I guess I haven't been much help and I

1513
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:52,720
long to be something.

1514
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:54,239
Speaker 1: Better, but I just can't help myself.

1515
01:17:57,079 --> 01:17:58,159
Speaker 5: Something very simple for.

1516
01:17:58,199 --> 01:18:02,159
Speaker 1: You and or I weakness techniques, you want to shoot

1517
01:18:02,159 --> 01:18:05,479
both dominate you.

1518
01:18:07,279 --> 01:18:08,560
Speaker 6: Let's forget about all of that.

1519
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 4: Now.

1520
01:18:13,199 --> 01:18:15,039
Speaker 3: What do you think about the music in this movie

1521
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:20,520
Romeo and Juliet theme, No.

1522
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:24,680
Speaker 6: Not for me. It adds that level of like not sophistication,

1523
01:18:25,199 --> 01:18:28,000
but it adds like a level of culture that you

1524
01:18:28,079 --> 01:18:32,880
feel like it was selected intentionally sort of because Romeo

1525
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:35,319
and Juliet is kind of like I think the idea

1526
01:18:35,319 --> 01:18:37,000
of Romeo and Juliet is that it's like a fan

1527
01:18:37,079 --> 01:18:39,640
of romantic fantasy, when in reality it is absolutely not.

1528
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:42,359
It is like it is a tragedy. People reference Romeo

1529
01:18:42,399 --> 01:18:45,039
and Juliet is like, oh my god, young love. It's like, no,

1530
01:18:45,199 --> 01:18:48,640
it is awful. It ends very brutally, like I think

1531
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:51,720
we'll forget that. So I think that it was probably

1532
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:55,840
done intentionally. It wasn't. It doesn't feel like lazily picked

1533
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:58,800
out of like a stack of classical musical piece.

1534
01:19:00,079 --> 01:19:00,720
Speaker 2: For me anyway.

1535
01:19:01,359 --> 01:19:04,199
Speaker 6: Yeah, And the garage music is in all three of

1536
01:19:04,239 --> 01:19:07,760
the lu Kampa ones, So it's in Cooler Baby, and

1537
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:11,279
it's in Miniskirt Love. That garage music that plays throughout

1538
01:19:12,039 --> 01:19:14,119
and I don't know where that came from. That's another

1539
01:19:14,279 --> 01:19:16,399
we kept running into this with these movies where it's

1540
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:18,159
music that we love and we don't know where it

1541
01:19:18,199 --> 01:19:21,920
came from because we can't we can't find the library

1542
01:19:22,039 --> 01:19:24,039
music that it that it's from.

1543
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:26,560
Speaker 3: And it doesn't seem to be like licensed anywhere, so

1544
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:28,039
nobody copyrights it.

1545
01:19:28,079 --> 01:19:29,399
Speaker 2: Like this strikes us.

1546
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:32,199
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that's that's the thing. That's funny. It's the

1547
01:19:32,239 --> 01:19:35,479
funny thing, Jane. So he puts he uploads these episodes

1548
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:38,439
to YouTube and they like to do copyright strikes and say,

1549
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:41,680
you have this music in this episode that's copyrighted. So

1550
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:44,720
that's how we're able to identify certain library pieces because

1551
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:48,319
the library companies now are making them available for streaming

1552
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:52,439
and that includes YouTube, so they'll say, hey, we flagg

1553
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:55,640
this old sixties library music that like Sony owns now.

1554
01:19:56,199 --> 01:20:03,239
So that's how we know what certain psalms are sometimes about.

1555
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah it is.

1556
01:20:07,079 --> 01:20:09,119
Speaker 6: Well, I mean I used to zam a lot of

1557
01:20:09,119 --> 01:20:11,159
the time. But you know, there are certain libraries that

1558
01:20:11,239 --> 01:20:14,720
just aren't available. So we'll just you know, KPM is available,

1559
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:18,479
Selected sound is available, there's definitely Library Chappelle is largely available,

1560
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:20,920
but there's there must be little, tiny libraries that we're

1561
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:24,520
not aware of that just have not been reissued or

1562
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:27,359
they're not streaming anywhere, so we keep running into that.

1563
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:30,199
Speaker 3: Talked about Barbara Ellen a bit. I don't know if

1564
01:20:30,199 --> 01:20:33,600
there's anything more to cover with her talked about shep Wild.

1565
01:20:34,119 --> 01:20:35,800
Speaker 6: I wish there was more to talk about with Barbara

1566
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:38,279
Ellen because I just find her so fascinating. But with

1567
01:20:38,359 --> 01:20:41,119
that name, I feel like Barbara Ellen. I feel like

1568
01:20:41,159 --> 01:20:42,880
Ellen was probably her middle name, but we don't know

1569
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:45,560
her last name, so it's very difficult to research her.

1570
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:48,279
We know that she was married because her husband didn't

1571
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:51,399
really want her to do nudity in venus and furs,

1572
01:20:52,159 --> 01:20:54,079
and that's kind of the thing where I wish that

1573
01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:58,399
somebody had asked Marzano that question. You know, maybe Nathan

1574
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:01,279
Schiff knows, So that's some thing. If we follow up

1575
01:21:01,279 --> 01:21:03,920
with Nathan Schiff, who knew Marzano, maybe he remembers who

1576
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:06,840
she was. It's because of the Marzano interview that I

1577
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:10,039
was able to pinpoint Bella Donna's real name and find

1578
01:21:10,079 --> 01:21:13,279
her and find pictures of her in the newspaper and

1579
01:21:13,279 --> 01:21:15,640
stuff from her modeling days in the fifties and sixties.

1580
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:18,359
So it doesn't make me it does make me wonder

1581
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:21,039
we keep bumping into this with with people in sexpotation

1582
01:21:21,079 --> 01:21:23,840
because the talent releases are long gone and there's a

1583
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:26,640
lot of people obviously that produce these movies that aren't

1584
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:30,479
around anymore. So I can't really ask for real names.

1585
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:34,279
We have to kind of hope and pray somebody remembers Yolanda.

1586
01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:37,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's one of the girls here. She's the one

1587
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:40,199
trying on the shoes. Yeah, I definitely recognize her at

1588
01:21:40,199 --> 01:21:41,960
the beginning when she's trying the shoes.

1589
01:21:42,359 --> 01:21:43,680
Speaker 2: Great, she's so good.

1590
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,800
Speaker 6: She's back in the news now though, because a new

1591
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:51,479
documentary about her just premiered south By Southwest this year. Yes, yes,

1592
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:55,439
so the thing so she shortly after making this movie.

1593
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:59,239
She's very She was like twenty. She met the guy

1594
01:21:59,359 --> 01:22:05,680
who invented the sea monkeys. So and this guy, terrible guy.

1595
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:07,600
I went to a deep dive about this guy. Apparently

1596
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:10,560
he was an active white supremaist, a member of the

1597
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:14,359
Area Nations and the KKK while he was involved with

1598
01:22:14,359 --> 01:22:18,880
the Sea Monkeys. And then he died. So not don't

1599
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:22,840
rest in peace, dirt bag. But she's still around. But

1600
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:25,479
the crazy thing is, so she got involved with a

1601
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:28,800
legal battle for the rights to the Sea Monkeys with

1602
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:32,960
some other toy company, and these documentary filmmakers tracked her

1603
01:22:33,039 --> 01:22:36,760
down and she's living like Big Eaty and Little Eadie

1604
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:41,560
in a house in Maryland that's decrepit, with raccoons and things,

1605
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:44,600
no electricity, no running water, so she's like Greg Gardens.

1606
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:48,600
Now she's living like Greg Gardens. They did a documentary

1607
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:52,399
about her where apparently she's fine talking about making these films.

1608
01:22:52,439 --> 01:22:55,199
It's not something she's embarrassed about. The official Sea Monkeys

1609
01:22:55,279 --> 01:22:58,199
website has a statement from her that includes images from

1610
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:02,000
press books of movies She did it like assignment. Female

1611
01:23:02,119 --> 01:23:04,560
is on there, and I'm just like, okay, so when

1612
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:08,000
we're not hiding this, okay, good, okay, nothing to be

1613
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,800
embarrassed about. Girl. It's all good, Like this was fifty

1614
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:13,159
years ago. But I don't know how to get in

1615
01:23:13,239 --> 01:23:15,159
touch with her if she has no electricity or running water.

1616
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:18,359
But she lives in Maryland, which is in my backyard

1617
01:23:18,399 --> 01:23:20,399
from where I grew up in Northern Virginia. So I'm

1618
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,199
kind of like, do I write her a letter? Oh?

1619
01:23:23,239 --> 01:23:24,960
Speaker 2: You go there, you go there?

1620
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:29,880
Speaker 6: I Well. The thing is, I think the filmmakers were

1621
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:32,119
nervous because they also want to know about her husband,

1622
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:35,199
but and he has a very controversial background, being a

1623
01:23:35,239 --> 01:23:38,720
wildly racist person. I don't care about the husband. I

1624
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:41,279
want to know about the films and her modeling and

1625
01:23:41,319 --> 01:23:41,880
things like that.

1626
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:44,800
Speaker 3: I involved with someone like that, Well we already know,

1627
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:46,279
you know, And did she know.

1628
01:23:47,039 --> 01:23:49,399
Speaker 6: He met her there? We yeah, we know that she

1629
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:51,399
did know that they have a daughter together, so I'm

1630
01:23:51,399 --> 01:23:54,880
pretty sure she did to wear Unfortunately, I just want

1631
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:56,760
to know about the films. That's all I want to

1632
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:59,199
know about. I don't want to dig deep into the husband.

1633
01:23:59,199 --> 01:24:00,800
I feel like other people can do that.

1634
01:24:01,319 --> 01:24:03,000
Speaker 3: Do you ever run into that, Jane, where you run

1635
01:24:03,039 --> 01:24:06,680
into characters that are have really shady backgrounds and you're like,

1636
01:24:07,079 --> 01:24:09,479
I got to put that aside and just focus on

1637
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:11,359
the art, you know.

1638
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:14,359
Speaker 5: Not to the extent of like being in the KKK

1639
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:19,720
thankfully as a something like that. And I would have

1640
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:23,279
a really hard time, you know, separating that personally. But

1641
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:28,560
you know, there are you know, people are complicated. And

1642
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:33,279
I would say one thing, for example, with with John Willie,

1643
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:38,199
although I would not I would not say that he

1644
01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:44,079
expressed a lot of extreme prejudices. He was really he

1645
01:24:44,119 --> 01:24:47,560
would often say things about like you know, for example,

1646
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:50,880
with cross dressing. You know, oh, well, cross dressing that

1647
01:24:51,079 --> 01:24:54,119
you know, that's not gay. That's like something real men do,

1648
01:24:54,319 --> 01:24:57,279
like back in the you know, back in the back

1649
01:24:57,319 --> 01:25:00,800
in the days of nights and you know, in shining

1650
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:05,199
armor it was very uh, you know, chivalrous, and and

1651
01:25:05,279 --> 01:25:08,000
they would they would wear high heels and that was normal.

1652
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:10,479
And he'd really make all these excuses, you know, and

1653
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:14,439
and and he really emphasized, he liked to emphasize that

1654
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:17,199
cross dressing was not the same as being gay. And

1655
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:21,760
of course it's it's not the same, but it's also like, well, okay, John,

1656
01:25:22,039 --> 01:25:25,319
but like it's not really a good deal, like they

1657
01:25:25,319 --> 01:25:28,439
can coexist and it's fine. It doesn't say anything about you.

1658
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:33,560
And and that's kind of a mid century thing too, I'm sure,

1659
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:37,439
hang up kind of so you know, there's there's things

1660
01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:40,479
like that. But yeah, as far as like being an

1661
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:44,560
active white supremacist, I thankfully have run across anybody like that.

1662
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:48,760
Speaker 3: And yeah, well, I mean that was ed Wood's perspective too,

1663
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:51,319
wasn't it. With regard to cross dressing. He kind of

1664
01:25:51,359 --> 01:25:53,720
saw it as like a manly thing as well to

1665
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:54,479
a certain.

1666
01:25:54,239 --> 01:25:56,359
Speaker 6: Extent, so he did it openly.

1667
01:25:56,960 --> 01:25:59,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, Bella Donna, we kind of talked about her, but

1668
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:03,159
I uh, if you're not again, we will chill our

1669
01:26:03,199 --> 01:26:04,000
Patreon here.

1670
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 2: I have not seen this photo of Belladonna.

1671
01:26:07,279 --> 01:26:08,279
Speaker 6: Which one, there's two?

1672
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:11,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, the ballet, the ballet.

1673
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:15,760
Speaker 6: Yeah. She has a note in here in the newspaper

1674
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:18,439
saying pin up model Lisa Millot of Dayton. I'll say

1675
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:20,199
her real name because she's no longer with us, is

1676
01:26:20,239 --> 01:26:22,640
Lisa Malot. She used that name on moon Lighting Wives.

1677
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:24,760
It's actually how I was able to track her because

1678
01:26:25,079 --> 01:26:26,800
that's the one movie she used her real name on.

1679
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:28,800
Speaker 3: This has happened several times with us, where it's like

1680
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:31,880
people's real names are just hiding and playing sight and

1681
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:32,640
we don't realize.

1682
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:36,000
Speaker 6: Well, that one I trusted more because I feel like

1683
01:26:36,039 --> 01:26:38,840
there are more real names on those credits than the

1684
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:40,880
other Sarno's. I feel like that was a much more

1685
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:45,840
mainstream attempt of a film. So Lisa Mallott of Dayton

1686
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:48,199
wants to become a serious actress. Quote, but as long

1687
01:26:48,239 --> 01:26:49,680
as they pay me to wear lee it's hard and

1688
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:53,319
breathe deep, I will like okay. And that appeared all

1689
01:26:53,359 --> 01:26:55,680
over the newspapers all over the country. It hit all

1690
01:26:55,680 --> 01:26:56,359
the news once. You know.

1691
01:26:56,399 --> 01:26:58,960
Speaker 3: What's funny too, is like the more I think about it,

1692
01:26:59,079 --> 01:27:01,600
you know, in the movies that she's in, she does

1693
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:05,800
like active exercise fitness type stuff, like in this she's

1694
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:08,640
riding that fitness bike. So it was like a little

1695
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:13,439
bit of that real personality, real life like passion coming through.

1696
01:27:14,439 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 6: She was a health nut and that's why at first

1697
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,439
I was like, you know, she's typically casting older woman

1698
01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:21,960
types in these films, And I said, yeah, but that

1699
01:27:22,119 --> 01:27:24,479
happens in s exploitation. Well, you cast a woman who's

1700
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:26,680
like in her like late twenties early thirties is like

1701
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:29,600
a mom or you're an older woman. I'm like, Okay,

1702
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:32,079
I guess I guess that that works for the narrative.

1703
01:27:32,399 --> 01:27:34,920
But like she was what was the math? Again, she

1704
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:38,000
was mid forties, which is very rare for these films,

1705
01:27:38,039 --> 01:27:40,880
like very rare, and especially the fact that she did

1706
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:43,199
do nudity in a number of films like that is

1707
01:27:43,279 --> 01:27:45,720
just unheard of. It this time you don't usually this

1708
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:50,119
genre is focused on like the newest young fresh face

1709
01:27:50,359 --> 01:27:53,079
who who is like coming up in their early twenties.

1710
01:27:53,119 --> 01:27:55,279
So the fact that she was able to find her

1711
01:27:55,279 --> 01:27:59,199
way into this industry and be successful is very special.

1712
01:27:59,239 --> 01:28:01,520
I mean, I've always loved her because just you know,

1713
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:05,800
I think she's very special. Yeah, you know, Janet was third.

1714
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:09,359
Janet was mid thirties. She's thirty three, I think because

1715
01:28:09,359 --> 01:28:12,119
she's they're in thirty and nineteen sixty four. Yeah, so

1716
01:28:12,199 --> 01:28:15,359
she was like thirty four thirty three. But it's interesting. Yah,

1717
01:28:15,359 --> 01:28:18,800
it's just interesting to note those the ages because I think, yeah,

1718
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:21,279
the expectation for expectation is always going to be young,

1719
01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:24,800
young women. But when I think you're working, you're trying

1720
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:28,600
to cast characters and films that have story. You know,

1721
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:31,840
you want to cast the right type. And so Bella

1722
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:33,960
Donna just came along with the right time when you

1723
01:28:34,079 --> 01:28:36,399
needed older women moonlining wives, Like a lot of those

1724
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:39,439
women in that are a little older because they're supposed

1725
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:42,600
to be like suburban housewives and suburban mothers. So that

1726
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:46,520
casting works. But yeah, she's great. I hope her daughter

1727
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:48,880
gets back with me, and I hope it's not too awkward.

1728
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:49,920
Speaker 1: You know.

1729
01:28:50,439 --> 01:28:51,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

1730
01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:53,840
Speaker 3: I'm looking back at what else was that? Do I

1731
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:56,359
remember bell Yeah, I remember her from a couple of Starnos.

1732
01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:58,399
I'm trying to think which ones she has like the

1733
01:28:58,439 --> 01:28:59,439
bigger roles in.

1734
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:02,079
Speaker 6: She's a huge role and she's doing it again, which

1735
01:29:02,159 --> 01:29:05,039
is the one with Uda Eriksson, when she's really terrific

1736
01:29:05,079 --> 01:29:06,479
in deep.

1737
01:29:06,279 --> 01:29:08,399
Speaker 2: Inside she's like the side.

1738
01:29:08,840 --> 01:29:11,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, she's very good. See. And something that I

1739
01:29:12,039 --> 01:29:14,479
like that I have to get ready to do, Jane,

1740
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:17,920
is that when I'm contacting family members of people who

1741
01:29:17,960 --> 01:29:20,640
don't necessarily obviously want to see their family members nude

1742
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:22,279
in these films, so I have to create like a

1743
01:29:22,319 --> 01:29:25,399
super cut of you know, like here's here's a highlight

1744
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:30,239
reel without the nudity of why because yes, because as

1745
01:29:30,279 --> 01:29:34,079
a gay man, I'm not necessarily I'm obviously not pursuing

1746
01:29:34,399 --> 01:29:36,760
or interested in the women in these films for the

1747
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:39,840
obvious reasons. Like so I will do a super cut

1748
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:42,680
of like their performances or like you know, when they're

1749
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:45,680
lit really well, and like, you know, yeah, I might

1750
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:48,760
have to do that for this daughter actually, just to

1751
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:50,600
be like, let's talk about your mom's modeling. Did she

1752
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:52,840
talk about the films? And if she hasn't seen them,

1753
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:55,000
then I have to introduce her to some of the

1754
01:29:55,039 --> 01:29:55,479
good ones.

1755
01:29:56,119 --> 01:29:58,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, what a great idea, What a great way to

1756
01:29:58,079 --> 01:30:00,640
do it because also sometimes you know, even if it's

1757
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:02,399
not your family member, if you just want to see

1758
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:04,399
some of people to start, and if you start with

1759
01:30:04,439 --> 01:30:05,920
the wrong movie, you might just.

1760
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:10,520
Speaker 6: You know's, yes, yeah, I have to do that. Actually

1761
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:13,760
with I'm friends with Barbara Mills' daughter, and Barbara Mills

1762
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:16,039
is someone that Genter and I both like, and she

1763
01:30:16,199 --> 01:30:19,319
passed away, but her and her daughter is interested in

1764
01:30:19,319 --> 01:30:21,359
watching her mom's films. So her mom only made like

1765
01:30:21,399 --> 01:30:23,439
a few movies that are like PG and she did

1766
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:25,840
nudity in so many of her films. So I'm like,

1767
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:28,479
I need to do a super cut because her mom

1768
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:30,600
was like, really, she's a really good actress, and so

1769
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:32,680
there's a lot of good stuff that I can pull

1770
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:35,560
to kind of show her why she has she's such

1771
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:40,159
a magnetic cinema personality. It's really not about, you know,

1772
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:43,880
the sexual persona. It's about like the cinematic persona, which

1773
01:30:44,079 --> 01:30:47,920
sometimes includes nudy and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's about,

1774
01:30:48,119 --> 01:30:51,319
you know, the vibrant scene and the personality that they

1775
01:30:51,359 --> 01:30:53,199
have they bring character.

1776
01:30:53,079 --> 01:30:55,920
Speaker 2: All that stuff. All her scenes from Blue Money there

1777
01:30:55,960 --> 01:30:56,239
you go.

1778
01:30:56,399 --> 01:30:59,039
Speaker 6: Yes, except for the scene where she's nude carrying a

1779
01:30:59,079 --> 01:31:03,880
little child. Yes, No, that's mechanically that it is sweet

1780
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:07,279
because she just had her daughter at that time, so

1781
01:31:07,319 --> 01:31:09,520
it kind of is like she's carrying the doctor that

1782
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:13,119
I'm friends with. Yeah, but that does well, that does

1783
01:31:13,159 --> 01:31:15,079
remind me, Actually, Jane, I did want to ask. So

1784
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:20,279
in terms of research, we we will run into issues

1785
01:31:20,319 --> 01:31:24,000
with like people that either are gone and deceased, or

1786
01:31:24,079 --> 01:31:26,880
we went into obstacles where somebody we want to interview

1787
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:30,319
doesn't want to talk. So for your book, like what

1788
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:34,359
were were there some obstacles that you that you ran

1789
01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:37,199
into but that you were able to like overcome those

1790
01:31:37,239 --> 01:31:40,119
obstacles to kind of get what you needed for the project.

1791
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:43,960
Speaker 5: Yes, you know, there were a few people, specifically John

1792
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:46,319
Willie's models, where I did try to reach out to

1793
01:31:46,359 --> 01:31:50,119
some of the family members. Some of them had careers,

1794
01:31:50,399 --> 01:31:53,319
you know, not just in bondage modeling, but in other

1795
01:31:53,359 --> 01:31:56,520
types of modeling as well. And there was one in

1796
01:31:56,560 --> 01:32:00,479
particular who was a favorite model of John, and I

1797
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:02,960
tried to reach out to some of her family members

1798
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:08,159
because she has since died and wasn't able to or

1799
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:09,920
you know, didn't receive a response.

1800
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:11,439
Speaker 2: Is that Pat Conley?

1801
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:16,720
Speaker 5: It is, yes, and she's she's such a great model.

1802
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:21,119
I really really love her. But fortunately, you know, I

1803
01:32:21,159 --> 01:32:23,880
was able to find information through other sources as well,

1804
01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:27,880
so that was good. Let's see, just kind of in general,

1805
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:32,119
it was a tough, a tough research project because a

1806
01:32:32,159 --> 01:32:36,960
lot of the people have passed on. And fortunately that

1807
01:32:37,039 --> 01:32:42,199
Kinsey Institute at Indiana University has a lot of generally materials.

1808
01:32:42,399 --> 01:32:44,800
They even did interviews with him before his death, so

1809
01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:48,640
that was really really helpful. We're so lucky as a

1810
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:51,359
culture to have those and to have that that repository.

1811
01:32:52,319 --> 01:32:52,560
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1812
01:32:53,239 --> 01:32:56,039
Speaker 5: So yeah, you know, I mean, you know, research is

1813
01:32:56,079 --> 01:32:58,920
always kind of an up and down and up and down, and.

1814
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:01,720
Speaker 6: Some times you reach out to people and you hear nothing,

1815
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:05,359
and it's like I'd rather hear a no than radio silence.

1816
01:33:05,479 --> 01:33:07,199
Just tell me no, so that I know that it's

1817
01:33:07,199 --> 01:33:09,680
a definitive not going to happen.

1818
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:12,159
Speaker 5: Right, And then it reached you, you know that you

1819
01:33:12,199 --> 01:33:13,800
saw it and that I wasn't writing.

1820
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:14,119
Speaker 1: The wrong.

1821
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:17,960
Speaker 6: You know, yes, yes, because that can happen too. Yeah.

1822
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:19,840
I mean, actually I reached out to someone who I

1823
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:22,199
thought was an actress. I wrote them a letter and

1824
01:33:22,239 --> 01:33:24,199
they called me and they said, so I'm not the

1825
01:33:24,239 --> 01:33:26,359
person you're looking for, but I love the letter tell

1826
01:33:26,359 --> 01:33:28,399
me all about this woman that has my name, And

1827
01:33:28,439 --> 01:33:31,640
I was like, uh, okay, I'll give you the download

1828
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:34,199
of this cool person who has your name. And I

1829
01:33:34,279 --> 01:33:36,720
kept listening like is it really them? Are they really?

1830
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:39,039
Are they pretending just to see if I'm for real?

1831
01:33:39,159 --> 01:33:43,479
And it wasn't her. It's like okay, but but yeah,

1832
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:46,199
the research is fun. But yeah, it's like you definitely

1833
01:33:46,239 --> 01:33:48,359
run into those those issues where you're just like, Okay,

1834
01:33:48,359 --> 01:33:51,399
where do I go to get this the full narrative

1835
01:33:51,479 --> 01:33:53,720
for the story that I'm telling. But it sounds like

1836
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:56,159
I'm really glad that you didn't run into that as

1837
01:33:56,159 --> 01:33:58,439
frequently and you were able to kind of tell that

1838
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:03,119
story effectively and completely for this project, because that's really incredible.

1839
01:34:03,359 --> 01:34:05,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a really exciting project to work on

1840
01:34:05,800 --> 01:34:08,640
for sure. You know a lot of One more thing

1841
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:11,560
about you were talking about the age of the actors

1842
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,760
and actresses and even you know, shep wild and stuff

1843
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:20,439
like that, being older in Venus in first, And something

1844
01:34:20,439 --> 01:34:22,439
that that brings to mind for me is the fact

1845
01:34:22,600 --> 01:34:26,439
that in the kind of fetish magazine world, the models

1846
01:34:26,439 --> 01:34:29,239
aren't always young. You know, there are older models or

1847
01:34:29,359 --> 01:34:34,239
if readers send in amateur photos, a lot of times

1848
01:34:34,239 --> 01:34:37,000
it will be older people, older men, and older women,

1849
01:34:37,720 --> 01:34:39,399
and so there's a wide range of ages.

1850
01:34:39,439 --> 01:34:40,199
Speaker 6: And that was.

1851
01:34:42,119 --> 01:34:45,600
Speaker 5: The case early on, but even into the present day

1852
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:47,720
that is the case I think a lot of times,

1853
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:53,359
particularly with the dominant women, age is considered sort of

1854
01:34:53,359 --> 01:34:55,560
a benefit in a lot of cases as far as

1855
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:58,920
experience goes, and so so that could have been part

1856
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:01,760
of it too in terms of casting for this particular movie.

1857
01:35:02,279 --> 01:35:05,319
Speaker 6: Yeah right, Yeah, that makes me wonder, Yeah, because like

1858
01:35:05,359 --> 01:35:08,760
you mentioned, the experience angle, so it's someone who has

1859
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:11,920
lived life and they maybe they're more confident in where

1860
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:13,760
they are, and so it really is like, this is

1861
01:35:13,800 --> 01:35:15,600
something that I want to do. It's not. It's not

1862
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:19,119
something that maybe someone younger would years later considered like

1863
01:35:19,159 --> 01:35:22,439
a youthful indiscretion. It's something that they made an informed

1864
01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:24,560
decision about because they were older and knew what they

1865
01:35:24,600 --> 01:35:27,600
were doing. That's very interesting. I never thought about that,

1866
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:29,720
because you know, for a lot of magazines you see

1867
01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:31,680
the personals ads in the back, and there is a

1868
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:34,960
wide variety of people in those personals ads. It really

1869
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:38,520
is very diverse, and I always love seeing those. I

1870
01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:41,520
mean it's it's decades later now, but it's just like

1871
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:45,159
these were people who were really being very sexually progressive

1872
01:35:45,359 --> 01:35:48,760
and wanted to explore their sexuality. And I love that

1873
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:52,800
we don't really work we talk about this on here

1874
01:35:52,840 --> 01:35:55,319
where I feel like we're kind of in like in

1875
01:35:55,319 --> 01:35:57,520
some place, some areas we're in like a sexual dead

1876
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:03,119
zone where there's a lot of negativity about about elements

1877
01:36:03,159 --> 01:36:05,560
of sex and in film and in culture and things

1878
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:08,319
like that. So that's where we try to keep the

1879
01:36:08,359 --> 01:36:12,439
conversation going in a way that we try to just

1880
01:36:12,479 --> 01:36:15,840
try to not make it as as dirty as people

1881
01:36:16,119 --> 01:36:20,479
are saying privately when talking about her book, I'm just like,

1882
01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:22,760
I'm you should be proud that.

1883
01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:26,159
Speaker 3: This thing was even published these days, because there's a

1884
01:36:26,159 --> 01:36:28,520
lot of places that just don't want to touch it,

1885
01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:29,880
they won't even look at it.

1886
01:36:30,319 --> 01:36:32,520
Speaker 6: Well, that's why, and that's also why Sex Best. I'm

1887
01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:34,600
really glad Sex Best is still going.

1888
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:38,000
Speaker 5: You know, they are so great and the people behind

1889
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:39,079
it are so nice, you know.

1890
01:36:40,119 --> 01:36:40,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1891
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:43,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a festival called Sinecink here in New York

1892
01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:46,199
that I'm friends with the organizer of that, Lisa Vanderveer,

1893
01:36:46,920 --> 01:36:51,399
And yeah, she that keeps going. Actually, when is that

1894
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:53,840
coming up? But they do that every I think they

1895
01:36:53,880 --> 01:36:55,680
do that every year. I remember they even did it

1896
01:36:55,760 --> 01:36:57,920
during COVID. They did like it did like a from

1897
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:02,039
home version of Sinecink And that's really great, and that

1898
01:37:02,119 --> 01:37:04,359
really is very it's very pro kink. It has there's

1899
01:37:04,359 --> 01:37:07,920
a lot of independent filmmakers that contribute like into their

1900
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:11,319
short films that they make like It's it's really it's

1901
01:37:11,399 --> 01:37:13,119
kind of I guess, like the East Coast version of

1902
01:37:13,159 --> 01:37:16,279
sex Fest. But it's also very very kink focused, all

1903
01:37:16,359 --> 01:37:18,720
kinds of kink too, and very diverse.

1904
01:37:19,479 --> 01:37:22,439
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of that, Jane, you know, what are some

1905
01:37:23,000 --> 01:37:24,800
kink films you would recommend?

1906
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:26,359
Speaker 2: Are there any?

1907
01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:29,039
Speaker 3: They don't have to be necessarily your favorites, but maybe

1908
01:37:29,039 --> 01:37:32,840
that sort of capture some accuracy.

1909
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:35,000
Speaker 2: Or something that you think is worthwhile.

1910
01:37:35,399 --> 01:37:39,399
Speaker 5: Oh god, that's a good question. I might need to

1911
01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:43,720
get you a list. I love that as far as

1912
01:37:43,760 --> 01:37:46,279
like kind of I mean, it's it's definitely a more

1913
01:37:46,319 --> 01:37:49,159
recent vintage. But like Secretary, I really liked that movie.

1914
01:37:49,199 --> 01:37:50,039
I thought they did a great.

1915
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:52,800
Speaker 6: Job with Secretary. Yeah, it's kind.

1916
01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:54,479
Speaker 5: Of funny, but one of my favorite letters that was

1917
01:37:54,479 --> 01:37:57,359
written into bizarre was from a It was kind of

1918
01:37:57,399 --> 01:37:59,840
I think it was nineteen fifty three and this man

1919
01:38:00,319 --> 01:38:03,600
in about he said, you go to the movies and

1920
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:05,319
you see, you know, you see a poster where you

1921
01:38:05,319 --> 01:38:07,439
think there's gonna be something in the movie that you like,

1922
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:09,760
like a woman tied up. And he said, but you

1923
01:38:09,800 --> 01:38:12,079
may have noticed that when you go to this movie,

1924
01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:17,159
such scenes are annoyingly brief. And so he said, what

1925
01:38:17,199 --> 01:38:19,479
you can do is you can bring a camera into

1926
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:22,560
the movie theater with you, and even explained how like

1927
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:26,520
you can brace your your elbows on your seats of

1928
01:38:27,039 --> 01:38:29,880
the elbow, you know, the armpads of your seat, and

1929
01:38:29,960 --> 01:38:31,880
like make a little tripod so that you don't get

1930
01:38:31,880 --> 01:38:34,600
any blur and take all the pictures you want of

1931
01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:36,800
the scenes that you want to see. And then he

1932
01:38:38,239 --> 01:38:43,239
provided an entire list of movies. I'll like copy it

1933
01:38:43,279 --> 01:38:45,359
and send it to you, guys. It's so funny. He

1934
01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:50,039
puts little asterisks next to the best ones, and you know,

1935
01:38:50,199 --> 01:38:52,279
some of them, he says, they're all, yeah, they're okay,

1936
01:38:52,479 --> 01:38:57,319
but you know, and then there's there's one called something girls,

1937
01:38:57,439 --> 01:38:59,680
Bad Girls, or something like that, and he writes next

1938
01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:03,079
to it, good poster and I looked up the poster

1939
01:39:03,159 --> 01:39:07,319
and it's like, you know, this school head mistress spraying

1940
01:39:07,399 --> 01:39:09,279
this tied up girl with a hose.

1941
01:39:09,800 --> 01:39:14,279
Speaker 2: Oh my god, know what we're talking.

1942
01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:17,159
Speaker 6: Then that movie obviously does not live up to it

1943
01:39:17,199 --> 01:39:19,199
because he only comments on the poster.

1944
01:39:20,439 --> 01:39:22,840
Speaker 5: He was not so good. But check out the poster.

1945
01:39:23,039 --> 01:39:27,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, I love that. That. Oh that is so.

1946
01:39:27,159 --> 01:39:30,159
Speaker 3: It sounds like isn't that a scene in Rented Girl?

1947
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:33,079
Speaker 6: Like rent a Girl? Yeah, but that scene is in there.

1948
01:39:33,119 --> 01:39:35,159
He would have commented and said, the scene is good.

1949
01:39:35,279 --> 01:39:39,840
It's based on that. That's a really crazy scene. Yes,

1950
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:43,239
that's fascinating. That's really fascinating.

1951
01:39:43,319 --> 01:39:44,520
Speaker 2: We need to see that list.

1952
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:48,079
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's cool, and it's kind of interesting because some

1953
01:39:48,159 --> 01:39:50,479
of them are just the other pilot movies. There's something

1954
01:39:50,479 --> 01:39:52,600
where a woman got tied up to a to a

1955
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:56,159
ship or whatever right in those days.

1956
01:39:56,199 --> 01:40:01,039
Speaker 2: That that's enough, that's enough. Yeah, are out there, like yeah, but.

1957
01:40:01,079 --> 01:40:03,399
Speaker 6: I also love the idea that like he wrote that

1958
01:40:03,479 --> 01:40:05,760
letter in knowing that it might get published and then

1959
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:08,640
that way that's like that that is that form of

1960
01:40:08,640 --> 01:40:11,800
community building, Like we would not get that until message

1961
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:14,479
boards and read it and like Facebook groups and all

1962
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:17,640
that stuff and now in MySpace and stuff like that.

1963
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:20,960
So that's so interesting that like at that time that

1964
01:40:21,119 --> 01:40:23,439
was the way that you communicated stuff to the people

1965
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:28,159
that were simpatica with You're like those yeah.

1966
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:30,079
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, that is exactly correct.

1967
01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:33,880
Speaker 6: I love that, see, and that's why I anytime I

1968
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:37,520
get old periodicals that are like you know, sexually oriented periodicals,

1969
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:40,880
I always read the letters to the editor. I always

1970
01:40:40,920 --> 01:40:44,079
read this stuff because sometimes it's asking sometimes just good questions,

1971
01:40:44,079 --> 01:40:46,920
and sometimes it's people who actually have like been involved

1972
01:40:46,920 --> 01:40:50,000
with Sometimes photographers and other people involved in the business

1973
01:40:50,039 --> 01:40:52,560
write in and like you didn't get this correct, and

1974
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:54,760
you know that kind of thing. So it's very interesting.

1975
01:40:54,800 --> 01:40:57,439
They're not always fabricated. I feel like the fabrication was

1976
01:40:57,479 --> 01:40:59,960
maybe like something that happened later in like the porno years.

1977
01:41:00,680 --> 01:41:04,039
But yeah, I love the fact that I love the

1978
01:41:04,119 --> 01:41:06,479
letters to the editor being like this is the bulletin

1979
01:41:06,520 --> 01:41:11,039
board and then the news updates for people of like mine.

1980
01:41:11,159 --> 01:41:15,880
That is great. I love that. Oh I never know

1981
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:16,680
what I'm going to do.

1982
01:41:18,399 --> 01:41:19,720
Speaker 5: I study impul.

1983
01:41:21,560 --> 01:41:22,600
Speaker 4: I love doing.

1984
01:41:26,039 --> 01:41:28,239
Speaker 3: All right, Jane, you send us that and then we'll

1985
01:41:28,279 --> 01:41:31,159
create like a letterbox list of all those movies and

1986
01:41:31,199 --> 01:41:32,079
put it online.

1987
01:41:32,479 --> 01:41:37,079
Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I'm trying to gauge ones

1988
01:41:37,119 --> 01:41:40,920
that you would like more, because if you don't like

1989
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:43,880
the Olga ones, I mean, there are definitely better ones

1990
01:41:44,760 --> 01:41:48,319
and Olga, I mean, I guess we don't have to

1991
01:41:48,359 --> 01:41:50,760
talk about Olga. But like, I feel like those movies

1992
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:53,920
are very similar, like the Irving Claw photos. But the

1993
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:59,399
Claw photos there are something much more sexually charged about

1994
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:04,479
those than the films, probably because Claw knew what he

1995
01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:07,439
was doing, and I don't think Morow was really into

1996
01:42:08,239 --> 01:42:11,279
I don't think he was into the nature of sm

1997
01:42:11,399 --> 01:42:13,840
M and bondage and things, but they ca it's like

1998
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:17,960
more like play acting I think in those, Yes, But

1999
01:42:17,960 --> 01:42:20,399
but yeah, we'll have to figure that out because some

2000
01:42:20,439 --> 01:42:22,760
of the fetish, I don't know. It's interesting because a

2001
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:25,479
lot of fetish stuff and exploitation fetish really found more

2002
01:42:25,479 --> 01:42:30,039
of a home when hardcore started, because yeah, it really

2003
01:42:30,119 --> 01:42:33,880
was not something that was really present in a ton

2004
01:42:34,000 --> 01:42:37,039
of softcore, but when stuff came out like the image

2005
01:42:37,119 --> 01:42:42,800
or the Notty Victorians or the image Yes, story of Joanna,

2006
01:42:42,840 --> 01:42:46,000
Oh my god, I love the Story of Joanna. Yes, yeah,

2007
01:42:46,079 --> 01:42:46,680
stuff like that.

2008
01:42:47,239 --> 01:42:50,680
Speaker 5: In eight hundred Fantasy Lane, there's like a dungency.

2009
01:42:50,840 --> 01:42:53,039
Speaker 6: That dungeency bothers the hell out of me because I

2010
01:42:53,079 --> 01:42:56,680
think it crosses the line into like Hillary Summers was

2011
01:42:56,720 --> 01:43:01,199
obviously very upset and crying real t because Jamie Gillis

2012
01:43:01,199 --> 01:43:04,159
took it too far that that that bit might be

2013
01:43:04,239 --> 01:43:07,000
cut out on current video versions, like the original uncut version,

2014
01:43:07,239 --> 01:43:10,399
she's like hitting him and he's hitting her back, she's crying.

2015
01:43:10,439 --> 01:43:12,880
I'm like, oh my god, Yeah, it's that's a little

2016
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:15,319
over the top. Give me a story of Joanna where

2017
01:43:15,319 --> 01:43:18,319
it's a little more it's a little more poetic and

2018
01:43:18,439 --> 01:43:22,600
you know, yes, and you get to see her dancing

2019
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:25,760
ballet because she was a ballerina in real life. Yeah,

2020
01:43:26,039 --> 01:43:26,319
so I.

2021
01:43:26,279 --> 01:43:28,880
Speaker 5: Know it isn't that great. I love it when like

2022
01:43:28,960 --> 01:43:31,159
sort of like the whole thing about the exercise bike,

2023
01:43:31,279 --> 01:43:34,039
or like Chuck Wild doing the massage. I love it

2024
01:43:34,079 --> 01:43:38,720
when some of a performer's real life gets folded in with.

2025
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:41,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, it doesn't happen that frequently. Because we were just

2026
01:43:41,840 --> 01:43:45,560
talking last week about an actress that was a singer.

2027
01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:48,960
She had a paramount recording contract. She never sings in

2028
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:51,279
any of her movies. Yeah, so we don't know what

2029
01:43:51,319 --> 01:43:54,039
she sounds like. Also, because she didn't record anything. She

2030
01:43:54,079 --> 01:43:57,119
had a contract, but no recordings were made, so we

2031
01:43:57,159 --> 01:43:59,000
don't know what her singing voice was like. And that's

2032
01:43:59,039 --> 01:44:01,039
when it's like, God, couldn't you have done like this

2033
01:44:01,119 --> 01:44:04,960
Belladonna on a or Terry Hall doing ballet? Like why

2034
01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:07,199
couldn't you let us see some of who this person was,

2035
01:44:07,359 --> 01:44:07,560
you know?

2036
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:11,239
Speaker 5: Or I'm for some reason blanking on her name right

2037
01:44:11,239 --> 01:44:13,279
now with the actress that was in Satan in high

2038
01:44:13,279 --> 01:44:14,640
heels and she sang.

2039
01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:19,600
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, Med Miles, Yes, yeah, they act she was

2040
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:22,239
a singer. Yeah, and she's great. Yeah, she's a good

2041
01:44:22,279 --> 01:44:26,399
singer on that. Grayson Hall, well yeah, yeah. I'm so

2042
01:44:26,479 --> 01:44:29,119
glad that that was that was that was shown and

2043
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:31,319
I'm bummed I didn't get to see it because I

2044
01:44:31,359 --> 01:44:33,720
what was the So what was the audience reaction to that?

2045
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:36,000
I would love to know how that screening went over?

2046
01:44:36,319 --> 01:44:37,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, it went over really Bill. There were a lot

2047
01:44:37,960 --> 01:44:41,600
of people there, and I was I was pleased to

2048
01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:44,680
see you know, people kind of uh kind of laughed

2049
01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:46,479
at all the right parts, the little kind of like

2050
01:44:46,680 --> 01:44:49,119
subtle digs and stuff like that, or some of the

2051
01:44:49,199 --> 01:44:54,960
kind of kind of campy or silly parts. So but Yeah,

2052
01:44:55,079 --> 01:44:56,800
people seem to enjoy it. I talked to a few

2053
01:44:56,800 --> 01:44:59,159
people afterwards that that had good things to say.

2054
01:44:59,640 --> 01:44:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2055
01:45:00,039 --> 01:45:02,399
Speaker 3: I think we said on our show too, like that's

2056
01:45:02,439 --> 01:45:05,239
a really good one to screen for people that might

2057
01:45:05,319 --> 01:45:09,680
not be familiar with sexploitation because it's pretty tame at

2058
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:10,840
the end of the day.

2059
01:45:10,920 --> 01:45:11,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2060
01:45:11,359 --> 01:45:13,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's much more of like a melodrama. It is

2061
01:45:13,880 --> 01:45:16,199
very like classic Hollywood bad.

2062
01:45:16,079 --> 01:45:19,159
Speaker 2: Girl, like something is mean on TCM.

2063
01:45:19,319 --> 01:45:23,680
Speaker 6: You know, it's very pre code. Actually, it's something you

2064
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:27,720
would see in pre code, like like Babyface, you know,

2065
01:45:27,880 --> 01:45:31,800
or something else. Yeah, it reminds me that it's like,

2066
01:45:31,880 --> 01:45:33,479
I'm going to make it to the top of show

2067
01:45:33,520 --> 01:45:36,119
business in New York and I'm gonna, you know, seduce

2068
01:45:36,159 --> 01:45:38,479
a gay guy, go to bed with a lesbian have

2069
01:45:38,520 --> 01:45:41,560
sex with the Bossa's son. Like, yeah, it's very stand

2070
01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:43,640
Wick and baby Face. I'm just like, and you're on

2071
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:46,399
her side the entire time. I'm never not against her.

2072
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:47,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So.

2073
01:45:49,159 --> 01:45:50,479
Speaker 6: I don't care if the movie's trying to make me

2074
01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:53,239
hate her. You can't make me hate mid Miles. I'm sorry.

2075
01:45:53,399 --> 01:45:55,479
You can't make me hate the Satan and high heels

2076
01:45:56,239 --> 01:45:57,439
not possible.

2077
01:45:57,199 --> 01:45:59,479
Speaker 5: And that would be such a cool time capsule too,

2078
01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:04,600
I feel, especially with the fashions. I mean not to derail,

2079
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:08,199
but like Samuel Robert was the designer that did the

2080
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:13,239
leatherwear for that movie, and yes, so fabulous.

2081
01:46:14,479 --> 01:46:16,640
Speaker 6: Now, we didn't talk about him on our episode. Actually,

2082
01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:19,399
I don't think. I wasn't aware that he was like

2083
01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:22,039
a known person. I don't think.

2084
01:46:22,359 --> 01:46:26,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was a leatherwear designer. He actually worked in

2085
01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:31,199
collaboration with Andre Corre for a while, who was another

2086
01:46:31,800 --> 01:46:35,680
designer who had a lot of fetish influence in his clothing,

2087
01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:39,319
even though he's a high end designer. Actually, at this

2088
01:46:39,439 --> 01:46:42,079
period kind of mid to late sixties, there was a

2089
01:46:42,079 --> 01:46:46,000
lot of fetish influence happening in mainstream fashion. And yeah,

2090
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:50,000
Samuel Robert, I think he started in the nineteen fifties,

2091
01:46:50,039 --> 01:46:52,680
forties or fifties actually, and he was a really creative

2092
01:46:53,199 --> 01:46:58,399
leatherwear designer, made some very unusual garments that were kind

2093
01:46:58,399 --> 01:47:03,439
of conservative in line, but very unusual in fabric as

2094
01:47:03,439 --> 01:47:05,920
far as using the leather and swede and stuff like that.

2095
01:47:07,479 --> 01:47:10,760
And yeah, I kind of wondered how he ended up

2096
01:47:10,800 --> 01:47:14,039
getting hooked up with Lenny Bertman other than just you know,

2097
01:47:14,319 --> 01:47:16,600
I was wondered kind of Oh, had he made garments

2098
01:47:16,640 --> 01:47:19,760
for Bertman for photos or something like that. I wasn't

2099
01:47:19,800 --> 01:47:22,680
able to find any information about that. But he even

2100
01:47:22,800 --> 01:47:28,520
won some award from like Leather Leather Manufacturers of America

2101
01:47:28,760 --> 01:47:31,319
for promoting leather in such a great way.

2102
01:47:32,079 --> 01:47:33,920
Speaker 6: Wow, oh my gosh.

2103
01:47:34,039 --> 01:47:36,039
Speaker 3: Well, I think I said that was my favorite part

2104
01:47:36,079 --> 01:47:40,079
of that movie was the leather outfits and you hear

2105
01:47:40,359 --> 01:47:42,840
the actual you know, crinkling of the leather.

2106
01:47:43,199 --> 01:47:45,159
Speaker 2: That's like the most erotic part of that movie to me.

2107
01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:47,880
Speaker 5: Right, Well, yeah, I think that was I think that

2108
01:47:47,960 --> 01:47:49,840
was the point. I think that's what Bertman wanted to be.

2109
01:47:50,960 --> 01:47:54,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I think that was Gentry's main problem.

2110
01:47:54,399 --> 01:47:58,079
He was like, there's not enough leather in this because

2111
01:47:58,119 --> 01:48:00,279
that is yeah, I mean there is. She doesn't into

2112
01:48:00,279 --> 01:48:02,079
the leather into the last act of the movie, and

2113
01:48:02,119 --> 01:48:03,800
it's like she should have been in leather the whole time.

2114
01:48:05,399 --> 01:48:08,159
Who should have heard her in leather crinkling into the

2115
01:48:08,199 --> 01:48:10,199
place when she came to the city, Like she should

2116
01:48:10,199 --> 01:48:12,560
have been in a leather the whole time. That would

2117
01:48:12,560 --> 01:48:15,800
have been nice. But you also need that that that

2118
01:48:15,880 --> 01:48:20,199
corruption the city, making her more corrupt. I guess that

2119
01:48:20,279 --> 01:48:21,960
classic New York City corruption.

2120
01:48:22,520 --> 01:48:25,439
Speaker 3: Well, I sense a bonus feature in the future, maybe

2121
01:48:25,439 --> 01:48:27,840
if we can get Satan in High Heels on Blu Ray,

2122
01:48:28,039 --> 01:48:30,960
if we can delve into some of this stuff.

2123
01:48:31,279 --> 01:48:33,960
Speaker 6: Yes, spoiler alert. We put a bug in the ear

2124
01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:35,960
of a company that we work for to try to

2125
01:48:35,960 --> 01:48:40,840
get that. So yeah, I would love it. Now. I

2126
01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:44,760
would love if you could screen Venus in Furs at

2127
01:48:44,760 --> 01:48:48,800
Sexfest next year or the next sex Best. The issue

2128
01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:53,239
is with the Novak estate, but I think I think

2129
01:48:53,279 --> 01:48:55,560
this one will probably go over really well too. I

2130
01:48:55,600 --> 01:48:57,680
don't I don't think it's not a story heavy at

2131
01:48:57,720 --> 01:49:00,039
Satan I Heels, but it covers so much territory and

2132
01:49:00,079 --> 01:49:02,039
it must it would look really good on a big screen,

2133
01:49:02,079 --> 01:49:03,399
I think absolutely.

2134
01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:03,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2135
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:06,479
Speaker 5: I think people would be really into it because it

2136
01:49:06,520 --> 01:49:09,079
just looks, like you say, it just looks cool. It

2137
01:49:09,279 --> 01:49:12,560
just yeah, yeah.

2138
01:49:12,199 --> 01:49:12,800
Speaker 6: I love it.

2139
01:49:13,119 --> 01:49:16,680
Speaker 3: I'm glad you liked it, Jane, because we were searching

2140
01:49:16,760 --> 01:49:19,319
for a film that you would enjoy talking about.

2141
01:49:20,920 --> 01:49:21,159
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2142
01:49:21,239 --> 01:49:23,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, I really, I really did. Thank you so much.

2143
01:49:24,159 --> 01:49:26,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm trying, yeah, because that's what I'm trying to

2144
01:49:26,359 --> 01:49:29,479
think of a good follow up on this. You just

2145
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:32,279
think cool it baby, not mini skirt Love. I still

2146
01:49:32,319 --> 01:49:35,199
think Love isn't really fetishy. It does have Bella Donna

2147
01:49:35,239 --> 01:49:37,399
though and Janea bands, and it has the two doms

2148
01:49:37,399 --> 01:49:41,319
in this as basically sisters, you know.

2149
01:49:41,439 --> 01:49:44,680
Speaker 3: Cool it baby has that whole uh scene near the

2150
01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:49,399
end with all the just like complete depravity going on everywhere,

2151
01:49:49,560 --> 01:49:52,760
with the even have like they even have like blood

2152
01:49:52,800 --> 01:49:57,760
sacrifice stuff going on with drinking goat's blood and all

2153
01:49:57,840 --> 01:49:58,479
the strange.

2154
01:49:58,680 --> 01:50:02,640
Speaker 6: True, maybe so circus actually that maybe you don't think

2155
01:50:02,680 --> 01:50:04,159
so Alex like that one.

2156
01:50:05,039 --> 01:50:07,119
Speaker 2: I mean, it's on that scan for that is just

2157
01:50:07,159 --> 01:50:08,199
like so hard to watch.

2158
01:50:08,239 --> 01:50:11,640
Speaker 6: That's true. I don't know that we have to. Yes,

2159
01:50:11,760 --> 01:50:14,119
that's true. Okay, we want it. We want something that

2160
01:50:14,119 --> 01:50:16,520
you can actually see and appreciate how well made it is.

2161
01:50:18,039 --> 01:50:21,640
If it's ugly, it's gonna look terrible. That's true. Yeah. So,

2162
01:50:21,800 --> 01:50:23,960
oh actually I did want to ask, what, so, are

2163
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:26,680
you working on anything new after the John Willie book

2164
01:50:26,720 --> 01:50:28,640
is out? Do you have another project you're working on?

2165
01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:29,039
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah?

2166
01:50:29,079 --> 01:50:30,920
Speaker 2: Can you actually talk about it? That's the question?

2167
01:50:31,239 --> 01:50:33,359
Speaker 6: Oh?

2168
01:50:33,439 --> 01:50:39,880
Speaker 5: Yes, And yes, I mean, okay.

2169
01:50:36,680 --> 01:50:36,760
Speaker 1: I.

2170
01:50:38,279 --> 01:50:40,800
Speaker 5: Am working on my second book right now. Unfortunately I

2171
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:42,880
can't talk about it yet, but it is going to

2172
01:50:42,920 --> 01:50:44,159
be another biography.

2173
01:50:44,479 --> 01:50:45,039
Speaker 7: So great.

2174
01:50:45,560 --> 01:50:47,720
Speaker 2: Is it in the same realm? Can you say that

2175
01:50:48,640 --> 01:50:49,479
it's adjacent?

2176
01:50:50,159 --> 01:50:53,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's still it's still in kind of a sex

2177
01:50:53,079 --> 01:50:53,760
focused realm.

2178
01:50:53,840 --> 01:50:57,359
Speaker 6: Yes, okay, great all I needed to know, sign me up. Yes,

2179
01:50:59,000 --> 01:51:01,479
I love that. Yeah, we're very sex positive here. We

2180
01:51:01,479 --> 01:51:05,439
want to see more more sexual history captured and shared

2181
01:51:05,479 --> 01:51:05,920
with people.

2182
01:51:06,119 --> 01:51:07,119
Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely.

2183
01:51:07,399 --> 01:51:09,039
Speaker 6: I need to buy this book now. I'm gon't order

2184
01:51:09,079 --> 01:51:11,359
it when we finished with this so I can finally

2185
01:51:11,359 --> 01:51:12,039
read it.

2186
01:51:12,039 --> 01:51:15,439
Speaker 3: It's so beautiful, like I was telling Jean, like the

2187
01:51:15,439 --> 01:51:18,279
they do like the black pages.

2188
01:51:18,439 --> 01:51:19,159
Speaker 2: It looks so.

2189
01:51:19,239 --> 01:51:22,560
Speaker 6: Oh my god, I love that design. Oh wow.

2190
01:51:23,039 --> 01:51:25,720
Speaker 3: And even on the inside, like I don't know what

2191
01:51:25,760 --> 01:51:27,600
you call this, it's sort of like embossed.

2192
01:51:27,720 --> 01:51:28,680
Speaker 2: It's so nice.

2193
01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:32,079
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, oh I love that. That is really cool.

2194
01:51:32,279 --> 01:51:36,760
Speaker 5: Okay, there's a really the publisher. I was really really

2195
01:51:37,039 --> 01:51:39,279
happy with what they what they came up with.

2196
01:51:39,760 --> 01:51:42,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's with Schiffer Publishing.

2197
01:51:42,920 --> 01:51:45,720
Speaker 6: Nice. Okay, interesting. I'll put it next to my Samuel

2198
01:51:45,760 --> 01:51:51,840
Stewart book. Read that book, Gentry. It's great too.

2199
01:51:53,560 --> 01:51:55,039
Speaker 2: I'm ready to expand my mind.

2200
01:51:55,119 --> 01:51:59,000
Speaker 6: I'm oh, it's so good. History is really it covers

2201
01:51:59,039 --> 01:52:03,199
so much. It's not he was part of the S

2202
01:52:03,239 --> 01:52:06,039
and M world, the publishing world, the tattoo world. Like

2203
01:52:06,239 --> 01:52:09,359
he photographed. He was a big photographer, or he photographed

2204
01:52:09,359 --> 01:52:13,800
like rough trade and stuff like. His story is really wild.

2205
01:52:14,079 --> 01:52:17,600
He also was involved with hardcore. He wrote a hardcore

2206
01:52:17,640 --> 01:52:20,720
movie which is not good, but uh, it was stolen

2207
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:23,439
from him basically. Yet it's yeah, you need that book.

2208
01:52:23,560 --> 01:52:25,199
It's very good. You don't have to you don't have

2209
01:52:25,279 --> 01:52:28,520
to be you as a straight man. You still like it.

2210
01:52:28,960 --> 01:52:32,680
I will say that pretty open minded. Anyway, Gentry, you're fine,

2211
01:52:32,920 --> 01:52:34,800
Yeah you are. I wouldn't be doing the show if

2212
01:52:34,840 --> 01:52:39,399
you weren't. That would be a very difficult show to do.

2213
01:52:40,640 --> 01:52:44,399
Speaker 1: Now, the moral of this story is that you can

2214
01:52:44,439 --> 01:52:46,920
always learn more about people if you watch the face

2215
01:52:47,880 --> 01:52:55,960
rather than the backside.

2216
01:52:56,680 --> 01:52:58,079
Speaker 2: What do you think, Jane, And do you have any

2217
01:52:58,159 --> 01:52:58,920
last thoughts?

2218
01:52:58,960 --> 01:53:05,119
Speaker 3: Any favorite scene means Venus and furs as we close out, god.

2219
01:53:05,039 --> 01:53:07,920
Speaker 5: You know everything. I really couldn't pick a favorite scene

2220
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:09,760
in the movie. That's the funny thing is that first

2221
01:53:09,840 --> 01:53:12,000
I was saying, oh, well, you know, it starts off

2222
01:53:12,039 --> 01:53:13,560
so great, you know, and then it's like, oh, with

2223
01:53:13,600 --> 01:53:16,399
the subway scene, Oh no, wait, but all the girls

2224
01:53:16,520 --> 01:53:19,600
running out of the library. I mean just it. I

2225
01:53:20,279 --> 01:53:22,640
just loved it really from beginning to end. So thank

2226
01:53:22,680 --> 01:53:25,319
you so much for this recommendation, because it was really

2227
01:53:25,760 --> 01:53:27,680
an enjoyable and enjoyable watch.

2228
01:53:27,960 --> 01:53:30,720
Speaker 3: And you said Rick liked it as well, right, yeah, yeah,

2229
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:31,439
you loved it.

2230
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:34,479
Speaker 5: Actually we ended up watching it twice, so that was.

2231
01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:34,760
Speaker 1: Yes.

2232
01:53:34,840 --> 01:53:38,880
Speaker 6: Oh, it's very nice phrase. Yeah it is. It is,

2233
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:41,079
and it's that's a I think about a lot of exploitation.

2234
01:53:41,840 --> 01:53:44,840
It's very it's short, and but then it's also a

2235
01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:47,640
situation where like sometimes you're like, Okay, this is the

2236
01:53:47,640 --> 01:53:50,600
perfect length, and sometimes you wish it was there was more.

2237
01:53:50,840 --> 01:53:52,399
You're like, okay, I could have I could have done

2238
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:54,720
with like twenty more minutes like this just because you

2239
01:53:54,840 --> 01:53:56,960
like spending time with the people in the style is

2240
01:53:57,000 --> 01:53:57,920
really engrossing.

2241
01:53:58,520 --> 01:54:00,439
Speaker 2: It's this is effect.

2242
01:54:00,560 --> 01:54:03,840
Speaker 6: Yes, like you wish it was longer. Yeah, yeah, And

2243
01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:06,439
we've covered a few movies like that. We were just

2244
01:54:06,520 --> 01:54:09,079
kind of like, sixty two minutes not enough, and we

2245
01:54:09,119 --> 01:54:13,319
did like another fifteen Yeah, and there's some that yeah,

2246
01:54:13,680 --> 01:54:14,680
could have been forty five.

2247
01:54:15,319 --> 01:54:18,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's for sure, that's sure.

2248
01:54:19,479 --> 01:54:22,199
Speaker 6: Yes, Barry Mayhounds could have been thirty minutes. Yes, a

2249
01:54:22,239 --> 01:54:24,119
lot of those, A lot of those could have been

2250
01:54:24,119 --> 01:54:24,600
half an hour.

2251
01:55:40,920 --> 01:55:42,920
Speaker 5: Do you think, o lea, maybe.

2252
01:55:42,640 --> 01:55:43,520
Speaker 8: We just thought to you.

2253
01:55:45,039 --> 01:55:50,560
Speaker 5: I thought with you as a run while. Wouldn't you

2254
01:55:50,640 --> 01:55:59,279
like to join? Thank you for listening to hear more

2255
01:55:59,319 --> 01:56:02,319
shows from this Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.

2256
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:04,399
Speaker 2: Please select the link in the description.

2257
01:56:10,520 --> 01:56:12,680
Speaker 8: Are you a film fan who loves the ultimate home

2258
01:56:12,760 --> 01:56:17,760
video experience, look no further than The disc Connected. Your host,

2259
01:56:17,960 --> 01:56:20,760
Ryan Verel, is your go to source for the latest

2260
01:56:20,760 --> 01:56:24,960
and most accurate information on home video releases, exclusive interviews

2261
01:56:24,960 --> 01:56:28,680
with industry insiders and filmmakers, and has established a thriving

2262
01:56:28,720 --> 01:56:32,640
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2263
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2264
01:56:37,600 --> 01:56:40,560
you insider knowledge and a welcoming space to share your

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01:56:40,600 --> 01:56:43,960
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2266
01:56:44,000 --> 01:56:47,359
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01:56:47,520 --> 01:56:51,239
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2268
01:56:51,640 --> 01:56:55,199
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2269
01:56:55,199 --> 01:56:58,239
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2270
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2271
01:57:00,079 --> 01:57:00,279
Speaker 6: Sure