1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,319 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the shir That You 2 00:00:02,399 --> 00:00:08,599 Can't Be Serious podcast. Im D James D and I 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,560 am here with my buddy Jason Colvin. Actually we're doing 4 00:00:11,599 --> 00:00:15,400 this via zoom. I am in the Bahamas where it's 5 00:00:15,679 --> 00:00:18,960 a breezy eighty degrees and Jason is sweating his balls 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,640 off in India. 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 2: Yes, that is correct, sir, shaken not stirred. 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: All right. We are here to talk about the competition 9 00:00:34,359 --> 00:00:38,560 of the James Bond of the sixties against the James 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,280 Bond of the seventies in movies that occurred in the 11 00:00:42,359 --> 00:00:47,439 eighties Sean Connery Roger Moore head to head in nineteen 12 00:00:47,679 --> 00:00:48,600 eighty three. 13 00:00:48,719 --> 00:00:52,079 Speaker 2: This summer, there was some amazing things happening in the movies. 14 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,000 We had Return of the Jedi, National Lampoon's Vacation. We 15 00:00:56,119 --> 00:00:58,039 had your favorite movie, Jaws three D. 16 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: We had Trading Places. I saw Boobies for the first time. 17 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,120 It was a wonderful, wonderful year. But yes, I'm happy 18 00:01:09,159 --> 00:01:10,959 to be back in nineteen eighty three. Again. 19 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,879 Speaker 2: This was an incredible thing to hear that two Bond 20 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,280 movies were going to be in theaters, not at the 21 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,920 same time, but relatively close, Like what four months apart. 22 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,760 I can remember being a kid going what are you 23 00:01:22,879 --> 00:01:25,599 talking about? I can see Bond in June and Bond 24 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,599 in October? Right, it's fantastic. Absolutely, sign me up. 25 00:01:29,719 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: I can have. I actually have a memory of walking 26 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,640 by the old movie theater in Central Mall, Fort Smith, Arkansas, 27 00:01:36,799 --> 00:01:39,640 seeing the poster for Never Say Never Again and saying 28 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,680 to my dad why is this movie called Never Say 29 00:01:41,719 --> 00:01:44,280 Never Again? And my dad telling me, well, I'm pretty 30 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:48,120 sure that Sean Connery said he would never play James 31 00:01:48,159 --> 00:01:51,319 Bond again, and now he is, and so that's probably 32 00:01:51,319 --> 00:01:53,719 why the movies named this. I was like, there's another 33 00:01:53,799 --> 00:01:55,640 guy who plays James Bond. 34 00:01:55,959 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, So do you remember your first Bond experience? 35 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,719 Speaker 1: No, I mean it was I mean, that's that memory 36 00:02:04,239 --> 00:02:06,959 right there is the first like vivid, I can say, yes, 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,840 that happened. But James Bond was just kind of a 38 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,560 part of childhood. I mean, my dad loved the movies 39 00:02:12,719 --> 00:02:15,240 and they would come on TV all of the time, 40 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,919 and so I just saw them, you know, they were 41 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,120 just all out there and I just saw him. Bond 42 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:21,919 was just out there and he was cool. And I 43 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,439 would see the movies as they came on, yeah about you? 44 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: Well yeah, so I remember very vividly in nineteen eighty one, 45 00:02:29,599 --> 00:02:32,400 my friend he's like, now you gotta go see four 46 00:02:32,439 --> 00:02:35,159 Year Eyes Only. And I'm like, what what is four 47 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,240 Year Eyes Only? He's like, it's the new James Bond movie. 48 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,599 And I'm like, who is James Bond. I don't know 49 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:41,919 who James Bond is? Right? 50 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:42,319 Speaker 1: Oh? 51 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: Wow? 52 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 3: OK? 53 00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:46,439 Speaker 2: And he's like, you what you know You've got You're 54 00:02:46,439 --> 00:02:48,240 gonna love James Bond. We got to go see it. 55 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,120 And so we went and saw four Year Eyes Only. 56 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,800 And I was an instant James Bond fan. So four 57 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,520 Year Eyes Only for me is not only the best 58 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,439 Roger Moore movie, but it's kind of my home movie, 59 00:02:59,479 --> 00:03:01,240 you know what I mean. And so that's the one 60 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,120 I go back to, is for your Eyes Only. So 61 00:03:03,159 --> 00:03:06,039 when Octopus he comes out two years later. In that 62 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,360 two year period, ABC used to have the Sunday Night movie. 63 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,280 They would show like The Spy Who Loved Me and 64 00:03:11,479 --> 00:03:14,680 Moonraker and Diamonds Are Forever, and I would just slowly 65 00:03:14,719 --> 00:03:18,599 acquire these movies, and so by the time Octopusy shows up, 66 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,159 I am ready for a new James Bond movie. 67 00:03:21,199 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: That's awesome. You know, as time goes on, you get 68 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,159 the introduction of Timothy Dalton, you get the introduction of 69 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,080 Pierce bros And I can still remember having conversations with 70 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,759 my friends when we knew that Roger Moore wasn't going 71 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,879 to be the James Bond anymore, of you know, hey, 72 00:03:36,919 --> 00:03:39,199 it needs to be that guy from Remington Steel. He 73 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,719 is the perfect guy for James Bond. Yeah, And then 74 00:03:41,759 --> 00:03:44,240 it wasn't him, and everybody was outraged, and I think 75 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,319 I was like, I'm not going to go watch those movies. 76 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,080 I'm upset because they didn't make Remington Steel James Bond. 77 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,879 That's just wrong. And then by the time that he 78 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,800 actually that Pierce Brosen and becomes James Bond, I was 79 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,439 just like, he is the best James Bond who had 80 00:03:58,479 --> 00:04:01,199 the worst scripts to work with. There were some bad 81 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,240 computer graphics going on in those movies. The scripts weren't 82 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,000 super good. But he was a really great James Bond 83 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:08,919 without much to work with. 84 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,439 Speaker 2: That is true. However, he started off with a really 85 00:04:12,479 --> 00:04:15,560 good one. One GoldenEye, in my opinion, is a good 86 00:04:15,759 --> 00:04:18,560 Bond movie, and so he had all that good credit 87 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,399 in the bank and the next bunch of them were terrible. 88 00:04:22,879 --> 00:04:25,199 Speaker 1: They were really bad. And gold and I I mean 89 00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:28,480 that was the introduction of James Bond into the video 90 00:04:28,519 --> 00:04:32,439 game world too, which I mean GoldenEye was fantastic. I 91 00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:35,240 didn't I watched the movie, but I loved the video game. 92 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:36,000 That's awesome. 93 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 2: That is very true. Maybe my favorite home video game 94 00:04:40,199 --> 00:04:41,959 of all time. My friend's like, hey, I gotta show 95 00:04:41,959 --> 00:04:43,759 you this cool video game. I'm like, listen, dude, I 96 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,000 got a job and I got a wife. I don't 97 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,279 have time for video games anymore. I played for like 98 00:04:48,319 --> 00:04:50,759 thirty seconds. I'm like, I'm buying this tomorrow. 99 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: How old are you, dude? 100 00:04:52,079 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: I'm I am. I am old, but I am not 101 00:04:57,439 --> 00:05:01,319 as old as Sean Connery or Roger More in of 102 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,720 these two movies or the record. Let's go ahead and 103 00:05:05,759 --> 00:05:09,120 get that out there, because that's an important factor when 104 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,720 we discussed these two movies. Yeah, Sean Connery was fifty 105 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,920 two when he did Never Say Never Again. He had 106 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,839 taken twelve years off. 107 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: YEP. 108 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: Diamonds Are Forever was in nineteen seventy one. He was forty, 109 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,639 but he looked like he was about fifty two. 110 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: He has an old look. About him. 111 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:26,399 Speaker 4: He does. 112 00:05:26,399 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: He does octopusy. Roger Moore was fifty five. He's three 113 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,319 years older than Sean Connery. Most people don't really realize that. 114 00:05:34,399 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: He has a younger looking face. He just does. I mean, 115 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,879 Roger Moore just has a younger looking appearance about him. 116 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,519 Maybe it's the receding hairline that Sean Connery has. Maybe 117 00:05:43,519 --> 00:05:46,959 it's the wrinkles. I can't really Maybe Roger Moore has 118 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,360 a good plastic surgeon. I'm not real sure, but but 119 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,240 Roger Moore always seemed to be younger, even though he 120 00:05:53,319 --> 00:05:54,800 was actually about three years older than you. 121 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: Okay, so today we're ultimately going to compare Never Say 122 00:05:58,399 --> 00:06:02,319 Never Again from nineteen eighty three to Octopussy nineteen eighty three, 123 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,199 Connery versus More Battle of the Bonds, and it's gonna 124 00:06:06,199 --> 00:06:09,399 be great. But really, the interesting stories here are kind 125 00:06:09,439 --> 00:06:11,519 of the behind the scenes stuff. So if you say 126 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,439 to yourself both of those movies sucked, hang on, because 127 00:06:15,639 --> 00:06:19,040 there is some interesting stuff going on behind the scenes 128 00:06:19,079 --> 00:06:19,680 of these movies. 129 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: Absolutely, there are much better James Bond movies out there 130 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,879 than Never Say Never Again and Octopussy, But we chose 131 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,759 these two because it was the summer of Bond versus Bond. 132 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,600 That's right, and the story there is an impressive one. 133 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,680 Let's you want to jump into the history a little bit. 134 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: Let's I'm ready to get into it. Let's go. 135 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: Okay. So our story begins back in nineteen oh eight 136 00:06:49,639 --> 00:06:53,079 with the birth of Ian Fleming. A year later we 137 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,519 have the birth of Albert R. Broccoli, nicknamed Cubby Broccoli 138 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,720 by his family. A few years after that, in nineteen 139 00:06:59,759 --> 00:07:03,240 fifty team we have the birth of Harry Saltzman, and 140 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,800 then nine years later we have the birth of Kevin 141 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:15,480 mcclury mcclury Kevin mccluy. Obviously the most important figure in 142 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,079 this is Ian Fleming. He was born to a wealthy family, 143 00:07:19,319 --> 00:07:22,519 grew up in wealth, and then of course, a few 144 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,519 years after his birth, World War One begins and tragically 145 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,319 his father dies in World War One. This comes into 146 00:07:30,319 --> 00:07:32,920 play with the character of James Bond. Later in the 147 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,439 early movies, you don't really get his history. He's a 148 00:07:35,519 --> 00:07:38,519 very two dimensional character, but later on, especially with the 149 00:07:38,639 --> 00:07:41,519 Daniel Craig version, you get some of that backstory, which 150 00:07:41,519 --> 00:07:43,160 includes him being an orphan. 151 00:07:43,319 --> 00:07:43,839 Speaker 2: Yep, yep. 152 00:07:44,079 --> 00:07:47,199 Speaker 1: So he ends up going to Eton for college, where 153 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:52,759 he meets and intensely dislikes a gentleman named Scarmannga. 154 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 2: Who is that right? 155 00:07:53,839 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? No, I'm not kidding The scar 156 00:07:57,199 --> 00:08:00,600 Manga is named after a guy that he hated in college. 157 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:07,600 I don't think he had three nipples, but yes, that's 158 00:08:07,639 --> 00:08:09,800 where that name comes from. And he writes his first 159 00:08:09,879 --> 00:08:10,600 story there. 160 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: Let's let people in on the joke. If you are 161 00:08:14,199 --> 00:08:18,319 a just basic, not very intricate James Bond fan, you 162 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,839 may not recognize that name. That is the villain from 163 00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:23,000 the movie The Man with the Golden Gun, and he 164 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,800 does have three nipples, played by Christopher Lee, which more 165 00:08:26,879 --> 00:08:29,639 impersonates him by putting on a fake third nipple, which 166 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,480 is a very weird point in that movie. Keep going, okay, 167 00:08:34,279 --> 00:08:41,679 you mean mid nubbin teddler being and Scaramanga. 168 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:49,279 Speaker 1: Okay, right. So, so, while while Fleming is in college, 169 00:08:50,039 --> 00:08:53,759 Broccoli his family has moved to the United States. They 170 00:08:53,799 --> 00:08:58,200 introduced broccoli seeds to the US, according to his obituary 171 00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,960 in the New York Times. I don't know how accurate 172 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,360 that is, but you know, let's go with it. 173 00:09:02,639 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 2: I mean telling me that broccoli is named after Cubby 174 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:07,559 Broccley's relatives. 175 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: That's what it sounds like from the from the oh 176 00:09:10,159 --> 00:09:13,200 bit in the New York Times. Yes, they're the ones 177 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,399 that brought the seeds over. They're from Italy, and broccoley 178 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,840 is is based on the Italian words. And so who 179 00:09:19,879 --> 00:09:22,320 am I? I'm just a guy here. I just I 180 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,000 reported as a reader. That's all I can do. Okay, 181 00:09:25,039 --> 00:09:28,159 all right? And then Saltzman is running away from his 182 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:33,200 home and joining the circus. I'm not kidding, literally joining 183 00:09:33,279 --> 00:09:38,559 the circus. Okay, all right, this is an interesting bunch 184 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,919 of characters. And then I guess, I guess McClure is 185 00:09:43,039 --> 00:09:45,799 learning to scuba dive. I'm not sure what he's doing 186 00:09:45,879 --> 00:09:49,320 at this time. So Ian Fleming, he goes to college 187 00:09:49,759 --> 00:09:54,399 and then does some does some journalism work, and then 188 00:09:54,519 --> 00:09:58,200 World War Two starts to happen and he becomes due 189 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,120 to the at the behest of his He becomes an 190 00:10:02,159 --> 00:10:06,919 assistant to a gentleman named Admiral Godfried, who is in 191 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,080 charge of all of like the secret operations of the 192 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:17,039 UK during World War Two. And Godfried basically tells Fleming, hey, 193 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,360 you are a super creative guy. Use that creativity to 194 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,840 think up stuff. To help us, and there's I mean, 195 00:10:22,879 --> 00:10:25,799 he actually thought up a plan in order to get 196 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,960 control of the Enigma machine. His idea was to have 197 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:35,279 a UK pilot fly a German plane and crash it 198 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,879 in the ocean near a German ship so that the 199 00:10:38,919 --> 00:10:41,320 ship will come over and try to save them, and 200 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,519 then the pilot then takes over the boat and they 201 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,840 get access to the Enigma chine. That was his plan. 202 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,159 For several years, he's involved with this type of espionage, 203 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,279 type of creative service, and that's what is the seed 204 00:10:55,399 --> 00:10:58,240 for all of his stories. I mean, he basically said 205 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,039 ninety percent of his stories are based upon facts and 206 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,720 the other ten percent or him just making some stuff up. 207 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,759 Speaker 2: That's really cool, you know, Thunderball and never say Never again. 208 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,519 I mean, that's knocking on the door of being familiar 209 00:11:12,639 --> 00:11:15,120 territory to the plot lines of those two movies. Okay, 210 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:16,759 that's amazing, keep going. 211 00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: Okay. So he at some point tells somebody, you know, 212 00:11:19,919 --> 00:11:22,120 when I'm done with all of this, I am going 213 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:25,919 to write the greatest spy novel that has ever been written. 214 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:31,600 And so he ends his time with Admiral Godfried, who 215 00:11:31,639 --> 00:11:35,759 becomes kind of the basis of m later on, and 216 00:11:35,799 --> 00:11:40,159 then he ends up renting this place down in Jamaica 217 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,080 called GoldenEye. 218 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 2: GoldenEye where Sting wrote Every Breath You Take and all 219 00:11:48,039 --> 00:11:51,039 of synchronicity. Basically, yes, it's incredible. 220 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: So he didn't write He did not write his first 221 00:11:55,279 --> 00:12:00,559 Bond book until he was forty three years old. That's edible, man, 222 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,919 it's insane. It's a year younger than I am right now. 223 00:12:03,159 --> 00:12:07,120 I mean it's like very get busy starting a podcast 224 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:17,360 or something. So during this time that he's doing all 225 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,559 of this cool stuff, broccoley starts working for Howard Hughes 226 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,960 after he takes over the movie The Outlaw. You know 227 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,360 The Outlaw. If you don't know the movie, you know 228 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:30,159 the picture of Jane Russell profile with her amazing like 229 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,720 torpedo cleave Yebi's going on there, I am familiar, keep going. 230 00:12:34,879 --> 00:12:37,320 He becomes a part of that movie with Howard Hughes 231 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,840 when Howard Hughes takes over for Howard Hawks when he 232 00:12:39,879 --> 00:12:42,159 got fired. This will come into play later on. And 233 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,000 so Saltzman has been in the circus and he's like 234 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,519 in vaudeville, and so he at some point becomes interested 235 00:12:49,759 --> 00:12:54,279 in James Bond. Likes the character and he buys the 236 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:59,000 rights to the character of James Bond. Broccley wants to 237 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,759 buy the rights to the character of James Bond, but 238 00:13:01,799 --> 00:13:05,679 then finds out that Saltzman already has them. He through 239 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,919 a mutual friend, meets up with him and they decide 240 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,799 instead of you know, Broccoli says, I want to buy 241 00:13:11,799 --> 00:13:14,679 the rights from you. Saltzman says no, but I will 242 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,000 form a company with you, and that company becomes Ion Productions, 243 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,960 which is the company that is responsible for almost all 244 00:13:23,039 --> 00:13:26,519 of the James Bond movies. So Ian Fleming in this time, 245 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:28,720 this was nineteen sixty one that they bought the rights 246 00:13:28,759 --> 00:13:35,360 to James Bond. He unfortunately, about three years earlier, thought hey, 247 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:39,080 it'd be a great idea to make James Bond into 248 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,519 a movie, huh. And he thought that because he had 249 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,399 recently met a guy named Kevin mcclury, and Kevin mcclury 250 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,000 was this guy who was an avid scuba diver, an adventurer. 251 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,480 So McClory had also been had become involved in movies. 252 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,799 He had been an assistant to John Houston and had 253 00:13:57,799 --> 00:14:03,679 worked on the African Queen Ulan Rouge and ended up 254 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:08,840 being an assistant director on Moby Dick, which starred James Mason, 255 00:14:08,919 --> 00:14:11,799 who we will learn later was one of the original 256 00:14:11,799 --> 00:14:13,759 people considered to be James Bond in the first James 257 00:14:13,799 --> 00:14:17,919 Bond movies. Oh all right, cool, right, So this guy 258 00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:21,480 he was, he got he hooked up with Elizabeth Taylor. 259 00:14:21,639 --> 00:14:23,679 I mean, this is not this is no you know 260 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,320 con man. This is a guy who's in the industry 261 00:14:26,759 --> 00:14:29,799 and romancing the starlets. 262 00:14:29,919 --> 00:14:34,159 Speaker 2: Okay, now, wait a minute. Kevin McClory dated Elizabeth Taylor 263 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:35,559 in her prime. Is that correct? 264 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: Yes, that is correct. He dated her and actually got 265 00:14:40,279 --> 00:14:42,480 engaged to marry her. 266 00:14:42,759 --> 00:14:45,159 Speaker 2: Anybody who can date Elizabeth Taylor in her prime has 267 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,279 kind of got it going on. All right, keep going. 268 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: So Unfortunately, Kevin McClory had come in nineteen fifty eight 269 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,879 and talked to Ian Fleming and said, hey, I think 270 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,960 that this James Bond character would be a great character 271 00:15:03,039 --> 00:15:06,639 to have in the movies. And Ian Fleming was like, cool, 272 00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:11,320 let's do that. Yeah, and so and so they together 273 00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:16,720 started working on a movie script. Movie script had multiple names, 274 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,759 including James Bond of the Secret Service. 275 00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: And Longitude seventy eight West. 276 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's a terrible, terrible turble. It's a terrible title. 277 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,879 Speaker 2: That's like, that's like saying I'm gonna do a movie 278 00:15:31,879 --> 00:15:34,559 about Disney World. I'm gonna call it main Street USA. 279 00:15:34,679 --> 00:15:36,960 You know, I mean, that's a terrible title. 280 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,519 Speaker 1: All those things aside, Fleming, mcclury, and a guy named 281 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,159 Jack Winningham all worked together. They put this script together. 282 00:15:45,559 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: In nineteen fifty nine, Fleming met with mcclury and Wadingham 283 00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:51,960 to have a script conference and that's when they actually 284 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,080 Fleming is the one who changed the title from Longitude 285 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,279 seventy eight West to Thunderball. January of nineteen sixty, McClory 286 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,840 visits Fleming at GoldenEye to tell him he's working on 287 00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:07,080 the final script for this thing, and you know, Flemy's 288 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,000 just like, okay, yeah, I keep going. So once they 289 00:16:11,039 --> 00:16:14,120 sit down and talk about the final script, he goes 290 00:16:14,159 --> 00:16:17,919 away to kind of finalize things. Fleming sits down at 291 00:16:17,919 --> 00:16:22,559 his desk at GoldenEye and writes Thunderball based on that script. 292 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and just to I mean, just to let you 293 00:16:25,679 --> 00:16:29,639 know how Fleming worked. It was unlike most authors work. 294 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,039 He was producing a book every single year, I mean, 295 00:16:34,879 --> 00:16:40,480 from Casino Royal on. He issued a book every year, 296 00:16:40,559 --> 00:16:43,440 and he would go he would go have a swim 297 00:16:43,679 --> 00:16:46,039 in the morning out at GoldenEye. He'd have a swim 298 00:16:46,039 --> 00:16:48,120 in the ocean. He would come back and have a 299 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,360 breakfast of scrambled eggs and toast. He would sit down 300 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,440 at his old typewriter and he would crank out the pages. 301 00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:59,320 I mean, just type NonStop. Didn't review it, didn't look 302 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,360 at it. I mean, there was there's no meticulousness about this. 303 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,240 He was just right, right, right, right right. And so 304 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,920 I'm sure that at the point that they are, at 305 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,640 this stage where he's got this outline in his head, 306 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,880 there's no question that he should have known better than 307 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,440 to write a book based upon what they have already 308 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,039 talked about and not give any credit to anybody. 309 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:27,319 Speaker 2: It's really not smart on Ian Fleming's part. And I 310 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,720 hate to say that because he's the author of a 311 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,559 lot of these stories that I love so much, but man, 312 00:17:32,559 --> 00:17:34,880 he just wasn't very bright on how he decided to 313 00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:36,440 go about well. 314 00:17:36,519 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: I mean, he his lifestyle I think was very similar 315 00:17:41,279 --> 00:17:44,359 to James Bond, and I think he had this kind 316 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,480 of bulletproof attitude about him that he could probably do 317 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:50,640 whatever he wanted to do and get away with it, 318 00:17:50,759 --> 00:17:53,519 just because of the life that he had led, and 319 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,200 unfortunately he was wrong in this particular circumstance. 320 00:17:56,519 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Kevin McClory gets a hold of an early 321 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,839 copy of this not called Thunderball, and when he reads it, 322 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,000 he's like, what the crap? This guy has stolen my ideas. 323 00:18:07,599 --> 00:18:10,440 And when they had got together, of course, there's lots 324 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,960 of drinking, lots of talking, lots of discussion, and it 325 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:19,240 becomes hard to sort out who thought about what, and 326 00:18:19,319 --> 00:18:21,960 so so mccluy sued to keep the book off the 327 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,039 shelves just to. 328 00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: Let you know, I mean, we don't want to paint mcclury. 329 00:18:26,079 --> 00:18:29,279 I've given him kind of the evil introduction a couple times, 330 00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:32,680 but he's not necessarily the bad guy in this particular scenario. 331 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,680 Like Ian Fleming got together with Jack winning him and said, hey, 332 00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:38,680 how about we just kind of kicked this guy out. 333 00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:42,359 I mean, he had his motivation was to get this 334 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,119 guy out of the picture, and Whittingham didn't fall into 335 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,359 that plan. And ultimately, when Thunderball came out, mcclury said, hey, 336 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,680 have you seen this, and Jack quitting him like yeah, 337 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,039 And so they both sued him. It was at the 338 00:18:57,079 --> 00:19:00,640 High Court in London. As you said, that happened on twentieth, 339 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:06,640 nineteen sixty three, and the case was settled in nine days. 340 00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:09,599 I don't know what it was like back in nineteen 341 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,839 sixty three, but a case getting settled nine days after 342 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,440 it got filed is amazing. 343 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 2: That's pretty open and shut, right. 344 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,039 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and I mean, just to let you know 345 00:19:23,279 --> 00:19:27,720 who was probably the culpable party here, Fleming paid mcclury 346 00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:33,079 damages of thirty five thousand pounds. He also paid his 347 00:19:33,279 --> 00:19:37,400 court costs, which was fifty two thousand pounds, and mcclury 348 00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:42,319 got the future versions of the novel credited as based 349 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:47,079 on a screen treatment by Kevin mcclury, Jack Whittingham, and 350 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:52,799 Ian Fleming in that order. Like, I mean, that's freaking huge. 351 00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:53,319 Speaker 2: Yeah. 352 00:19:53,319 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: But what we also need to know, and this is important, 353 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,000 some people make decisions under certain types of stress. In 354 00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:03,839 the middle of that nine days, Ian Fleming had a 355 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:04,839 freaking heart attack. 356 00:20:05,279 --> 00:20:08,759 Speaker 2: Among the things, like you said that McClory won, he 357 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,000 also had the right to make Thunderball as a movie. 358 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, he won the screenplay treatments, and that was something. 359 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,559 Here's here's an interesting thing. Now. So this is nineteen 360 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,759 sixty three, so they work together in nineteen fifty eight. 361 00:20:29,799 --> 00:20:33,119 The first Bond movie comes out in nineteen sixty two. 362 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 2: Yes, Doctor No. 363 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,279 Speaker 1: Doctor No comes out in NICECC sixty two. This is 364 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,400 nineteen sixty three year later, so we I mean, they 365 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:46,039 all know Doctor No is a big hit. Kubby Brockley 366 00:20:46,279 --> 00:20:48,839 is involved with the movie at this point. Harry Saltzman 367 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,039 is involved with the movie at this point, and so 368 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,240 they say to him, yes, you can have the screenplay 369 00:20:57,319 --> 00:21:02,200 rights to this particular storyline, and then you are allowed 370 00:21:02,319 --> 00:21:07,160 to reproduce it ten years from now. So here's here 371 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,200 are the two possibilities that I see as a legal 372 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,039 analysis on this one. For them to give up not 373 00:21:14,079 --> 00:21:15,920 only hey, we're going to give you the screenplay now, 374 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:17,759 but we're gonna let you reproduce it every ten years. 375 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,960 There's only two possibilities. Either they thought this thing, the 376 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,799 story is going to be over in ten years and 377 00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:27,160 nobody's going to care, right, or they thought we're going 378 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:31,440 to be so financially successful in ten years after making 379 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,640 all of the Bond stories and movies that we've got, 380 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,240 that we're going to be rich enough to stop him 381 00:21:38,279 --> 00:21:41,240 from doing this, you know, or some sort of remake 382 00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:45,319 of the Thunderball, and ultimately that's kind of what ends 383 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:45,839 up happening. 384 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:50,079 Speaker 2: It's very very interesting. It's very interesting. It seems to 385 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,839 me that they are trying to give McClory everything they 386 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,680 can to kind of make him go away, pacify him 387 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,039 with film rights, remake rights. And I was telling you 388 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,160 that McClory, it's all this credit for Thunderball, but there's 389 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,079 some question about whether or not he gets credit for Spector. 390 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,839 Which Spector. You know, Spector's huge, I mean, Bond's bad 391 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,720 main bad guy. Is spect the. 392 00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: Key bad guy. I mean that the the through the 393 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,160 series you get you get a movie in the twenty 394 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,240 first century named spect I mean it's and you look 395 00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:20,599 at all of the all of the spoofs, any of 396 00:22:20,599 --> 00:22:24,680 those things, it's always got Specter involved, right, I mean absolutely. 397 00:22:24,839 --> 00:22:29,000 If you look at Austin Powers and Number two and 398 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,960 Doctor Evil, that is all Spector, right, right. And then 399 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,119 you know the chairs that are all lined up. I mean, 400 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,319 so you watch Thunderball and you see you see Number 401 00:22:40,319 --> 00:22:42,319 two walk in with his eye patch, and they all 402 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,240 go to the chairs and the guy who's hidden behind 403 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,720 the screens petting his little cat is a white cat. 404 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,279 Speaker 2: I'm just all from Thunderball. 405 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: It's all from Thunderball. So the fact that Kevin mccluy 406 00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:57,039 has got the rights to this particular storyline is huge 407 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,200 because this particular storyline is a main factor in so 408 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:02,720 many of the Bond films. 409 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,039 Speaker 2: And yeah, specifically, Spector was the bad guy in Doctor No, 410 00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:11,240 the bad guy in From Russia with Love. It's mentioned 411 00:23:11,279 --> 00:23:15,519 in Goldfinger. So they don't want him to have any 412 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:19,079 claim on revenues from those previous movies that are huge successes. 413 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,759 But just to clarify, Specter is a group of bad 414 00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:26,039 guys that they needed to create that wasn't the Russians, 415 00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:29,920 And it wasn't the mafia, wasn't the Germans this, and 416 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,880 it wasn't the Germans, right, this nefarious group of bad guys. 417 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:40,480 The inspector stands for Special Executive for Terrorism, revenge, Extortion. 418 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the introduction of Specter in Thunderball is fantastic 419 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,839 because it's just this meeting of evil characters who are like, 420 00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:56,960 it's like a business meeting of criminals. It's and it's not. 421 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,640 It's it's fantastic. And then one of the guy. You know, 422 00:24:00,759 --> 00:24:03,720 there's two guys who were responsible for some sort of 423 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,400 I think it's like a drug deal or something like that. Yeah, 424 00:24:07,759 --> 00:24:11,599 And the headman of Spector says, yes, but basically you've 425 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,920 been cooking the books. And one of the guys is 426 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,920 like what no, and the other guy's like, yeah, everything's cool, 427 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,440 We're cool. And that cool guy's just zapped dumped and 428 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:21,440 he's gone. 429 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,799 Speaker 2: Yes, and he goes under and he's like, I'm very 430 00:24:23,839 --> 00:24:29,279 badly burned, but oh no, I'm sorry. That's awesome power. 431 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,680 So I get him confused a little bit. 432 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: Bells of omens. 433 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,599 Speaker 2: But the bad guy you before we get off of this. 434 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,440 So Specter is a very important piece in this. Obviously thunderball. 435 00:24:46,039 --> 00:24:49,079 They got their butts kicked in court. McCrory took him 436 00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:51,799 to task on that one. But Blofeld is in play 437 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,319 as well. Blofeld is like if somebody sued George Lucas 438 00:24:55,559 --> 00:24:58,680 and they won the rights to Darth Vader, right, Blofeld 439 00:24:58,759 --> 00:25:00,920 is the number one bad guy, the head of Specter. 440 00:25:01,319 --> 00:25:04,160 He's the bald guy that strokes the cat in all 441 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,960 the movies, right, right, And that they wanted to make 442 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,200 sure that Kevin McCloy didn't get ahold of that guy. 443 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,599 Speaker 1: And just as a side note, in the Austin Powers movie, 444 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,559 the character of Number two is played by the actor 445 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,680 Robert Wagner, who when they were trying to decide who 446 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,559 the new James Bond would be after Timothy Dalton, they 447 00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:27,279 were looking at him and he was like, no, I'm 448 00:25:27,319 --> 00:25:30,039 too American. You should just go ahead and give that 449 00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:30,880 to Pierce Brosen. 450 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:39,279 Speaker 2: And speaking of Americans, I'm gonna throw a little plug 451 00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:40,599 in here for Octopus real quick. 452 00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:41,759 Speaker 1: Yeah. 453 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,279 Speaker 2: So obviously when Never Say Never Again is remade, which 454 00:25:46,839 --> 00:25:49,480 Never Say Never Again, for those who don't know, is 455 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,759 a remake of Thunderball based on Kevin McClory's ability to 456 00:25:54,759 --> 00:25:57,359 remake that movie every ten years. So I did that, 457 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:58,599 would Never Say Never Again? 458 00:25:58,880 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: Right? 459 00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:02,599 Speaker 2: Connery comes takes the role at age fifty two. Roger 460 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,240 Moore is three years older than him, so when he 461 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,640 is in Octopus, he's fifty five right. So after for 462 00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:13,480 your eyes only, Roger Moore said, I want to retire. 463 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,960 I'm too old to do James Bond anymore. And so 464 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,920 you can actually YouTube James Roland does his screen test 465 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,680 as an American James Bond, and I was telling you 466 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,680 he doesn't even play with an English accent. He is 467 00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:31,519 doing it as mister coole American. Think George Clooney, you know, 468 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,240 just cool and classy American. 469 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: So Sean Connery is not the first actor to ever 470 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,720 portray James Bond, and Doctor No is not. It was 471 00:26:41,839 --> 00:26:45,279 not the first novel. So why wasn't the first novel 472 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,400 the first James Bond movie? Well, actually it was right. 473 00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:53,640 The first time that James Bond is ever portrayed on 474 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,119 the screen is on a TV show called Climax, in 475 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,640 an episode called Casino Royale. The actor that portrays him 476 00:27:01,799 --> 00:27:05,640 is Barry Nelson, who hasn't been in pretty much anything 477 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,640 else that you probably would have heard of except The Shining. 478 00:27:09,079 --> 00:27:13,440 He is the guy who sends Jack Nicholson off to 479 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,359 the hotel with. 480 00:27:15,599 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 2: Oh are you serious? 481 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, So he plays this, He plays this James 482 00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:26,039 Bond character, but he plays him as an American, and 483 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,559 so that let's see in Fleming know, hey, Bond might 484 00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:34,240 be good for the screen. Which then in nineteen fifty five, 485 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,920 a year later, he sells the rights to Casino roy 486 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,319 Al to a guy named Greg Radoff. Okay, and he's 487 00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:48,240 a producer. Now he's thinking, Okay, they're gonna make Casino 488 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,839 roy Al. I know a movie. The only problem is 489 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,000 Greg Radoff and his writer, whose name is Lorenzo Simple, 490 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,960 who to let you know his experience. He wrote Three 491 00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:03,759 Days of the Condor and he wrote the early version 492 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:09,079 like the sixties versions of Batman with Adam West. But 493 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,079 Greg Radoff and Lorenzo Simple look at James Bond and 494 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,480 they go, this character is stupid. There's no way that 495 00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:20,319 anybody would believe that a man could say the stuff 496 00:28:20,319 --> 00:28:23,759 to women that he's saying right now. So what we 497 00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:25,799 need to do is we need to change the character 498 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,799 into a woman, and we're going to call her Jane Bond. Yeah. 499 00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:35,480 So fortunately before all of that happened, Greg Radoff dies 500 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:43,039 and greg Radoff's attorney slash agent, Charles Feldman, buys the 501 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:48,920 rights to Casina Royale from his widow and he gets 502 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,279 together with Howard Hawks. I told you he'd come back 503 00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:55,119 in Howard Hawks and he says, Okay, we need to 504 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,599 make this movie. We need to make this book into 505 00:28:58,599 --> 00:29:01,200 a movie. Casina Royle need to make this book into 506 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:06,359 a movie. And they were going to hire Lee Pucket 507 00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:09,240 as a writer, and they were going to hire Carrie 508 00:29:09,359 --> 00:29:12,039 Grant as James Bond. Now I know you've heard of 509 00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:14,400 Carrie Grant, but do you know who Lee Puckett is? 510 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:15,119 Speaker 3: No? 511 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: Tell me well, remember in our Raiders of the Lost 512 00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:20,880 Arc versus Back to the Future episode where I talk 513 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,880 to you about George Lucas telling Lawrence Casten, Hey, I 514 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,920 had this lady writing the Empire strikes back for me, 515 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:34,160 but then she died. Yes, Lee Puckett, Wow, yeah, Wow. 516 00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:34,559 Speaker 2: That's amazing. 517 00:29:34,759 --> 00:29:37,759 Speaker 1: So Charles Feldman has the rights to Sina Royale, which 518 00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:41,839 is why it never got made by Eon Productions as 519 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,440 a Bond movie. They started with Doctor No, and then 520 00:29:44,519 --> 00:29:47,480 they went through all of their pieces and then you know, 521 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,720 we're talking about the time and history where two James 522 00:29:50,759 --> 00:29:53,119 Bond movies were going head to head. But it's not 523 00:29:53,599 --> 00:29:56,119 the first time that this ever happened. The first time 524 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,240 it ever happened was in nineteen sixty seven when. 525 00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 2: And Casino Royale went against You only lived twice. 526 00:30:04,039 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: So Casino Royal is a James Bond movie, but it's 527 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,559 a spoof, right, It's a satire and it stars David Niven, 528 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,400 who was you would know. I mean our age group 529 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,079 would know him as the villain, if you'll call him that, 530 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,319 in The Pink Panther. But David Niven was one of 531 00:30:21,359 --> 00:30:25,160 the guys who was originally considered to be James Bond. 532 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,079 David Niven, Carrie Grant, James Mason, who I mentioned before, 533 00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:32,240 were the guys that they wanted to be James Bond 534 00:30:32,319 --> 00:30:36,279 before they ultimately settled on Sean Connery. But then nineteen 535 00:30:36,359 --> 00:30:39,680 sixty seven happens. David Niven's like, yeah, let's go ahead 536 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,000 and do this thing. And so they make this movie 537 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,880 Casino Royale that's got him and Peter Sellers and several 538 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,039 other famous actors, and it's all this who's the real 539 00:30:49,119 --> 00:30:51,920 James Bond kind of storyline, and it's all supposed to 540 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,359 be comedy, which was appropriate, But that's the first time 541 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,960 that two Bonds went head to head in the same year. 542 00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:01,759 Speaker 2: So back to Thunderball, when and Kubby Broccley and Harry 543 00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:05,519 Saltzman are making this movie and they see that Kevin 544 00:31:05,559 --> 00:31:07,759 McClory is going to be a royal pain in the butt, 545 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,440 A fly in the white meant a monkey in the wrench. 546 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,599 I can't wait to do Diehard. But yeah, they make 547 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,160 him producer of the movie Thunderball, hoping again to pacify 548 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,079 this guy so he will go away. Even though he's 549 00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:25,039 got in his back pocket he can remake Thunderball every 550 00:31:25,079 --> 00:31:27,680 ten years. So they put him in charge of filming 551 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,480 underwater scenes. 552 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: Right. He was the scuba diver. And that's why this 553 00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:34,680 movie is so that underwater scenes are such a big 554 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,319 factor in this movie is because Kevin McClory was a 555 00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:39,440 big scuba diver and he's like, hey, I really want, 556 00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:41,599 you know, underwater scenes to be a big part of this. 557 00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:45,799 And so back in the sixties, those underwater scenes were amazing. 558 00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:47,920 I mean, nobody had done that stuff except in like 559 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,000 the TV series Flipper. 560 00:31:51,079 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: But that's why Thunderball, when you look at it today, 561 00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:56,279 it is like watching a movie in slow motion because 562 00:31:56,319 --> 00:32:00,920 everything's underwater. Yeah, the fight scenes are very slow motion, 563 00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:01,799 you know, so. 564 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: Right right, So it's interesting, you know, that's that is 565 00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:09,839 a factor of looking you know, we're eighties kids, and 566 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,720 so we're looking at what was going on in the 567 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,880 eighties back and we're and we're thinking, okay, Thunderball, little 568 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,160 slow with the I mean, why are we spending so 569 00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:20,720 much time? And then the union water scenes but that's 570 00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:24,160 because of our perspective. Right. It's interesting. I mean we've 571 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,799 gone through we've gone through several different steps where Ian 572 00:32:27,839 --> 00:32:30,640 Fleming is just trying to get this thing to become 573 00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:33,720 a movie. From my perspective, I'm just thinking, how do 574 00:32:33,759 --> 00:32:37,759 you not How does a studio not immediately go, Yeah, 575 00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:40,160 this is a fantastic character and this needs to be 576 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:46,400 a movie. It didn't happen until until JFK Yeah listed 577 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,480 From Russia with Love as one of his top ten books. 578 00:32:50,759 --> 00:32:54,400 That was the push that Broccoli and Saltzman were looking 579 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,759 for to get their movie made, and that's what led 580 00:32:57,039 --> 00:33:00,920 to the studio going to green lighting Doctor Now. Yep. 581 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,559 Speaker 2: It also caused the novels to explode of Ian Flemings. 582 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,759 Speaker 1: Right, So, starting with Doctor No we had studios that 583 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,039 wanted a big name. They wanted Carrie Grant, they wanted 584 00:33:13,119 --> 00:33:16,319 James Mason. But the problem is Carrie Grant says, I 585 00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:18,680 don't want to do more than one movie, and James 586 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,319 Mason says, I don't want to do more than two movies. 587 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,119 And then they get to David Niven and he's like, no, 588 00:33:24,599 --> 00:33:26,799 I'm now I'm not really interested in doing more than 589 00:33:26,839 --> 00:33:30,279 three movies. But ultimately they decide we want to get 590 00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:33,880 an unknown actor to play the part of James Bond, 591 00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:38,440 and so they're going through several actors and one of 592 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,720 the guys that comes through is this unknown guy who's 593 00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:44,720 only been in this kind of weird little movie called 594 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,279 Darby O'Gill and the Little People and was in the 595 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:53,400 chorus for like South Pacific or something. Yeah, but Saltzman 596 00:33:53,519 --> 00:33:58,440 says that when he walked in, it was his walk 597 00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:02,119 that got him the part. He's this big man but 598 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,039 walks with such poise like a cat, and he said 599 00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:10,599 that only this is Saltzman. Harry Saltzman said that only 600 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,440 Sean Connery and Albert Finnie are the only two large 601 00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:18,719 guys who walk in this way and would have been 602 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,880 appropriate for this part. Which is ironic because in the 603 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,559 early eighties, just before Never Say Never came out, Sean 604 00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:31,760 Connery was actually looking at becoming Daddy Warbucks in the 605 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,519 movie Annie. And I mean he really wanted it. He 606 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:38,480 loved the play. He wanted to be in the movie, 607 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,800 but he was unsure about his singing ability. He even 608 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,559 took voice lessons, but they basically said, you got to 609 00:34:44,599 --> 00:34:46,800 tell us now, are you in or are you out? 610 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,719 And he's like, I'm not sure. And at that point 611 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,360 they said, never mind, We're gonna go to with Albert Finnie, 612 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,679 who couldn't really sing anyway. 613 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 2: He was terrible. 614 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,119 Speaker 1: Yes, so it didn't matter. It was still a wonderful 615 00:34:57,119 --> 00:35:00,599 movie with a terrible singing Daddy Warbucks. Sean could have 616 00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:02,760 been that guy. How weird with life have been at 617 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:03,119 that point? 618 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 2: Wow? 619 00:35:04,039 --> 00:35:07,599 Speaker 1: But they they back in the early sixties. They land 620 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,039 on Sean Connery who who was a casket maker? Ye, 621 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,320 who was a lorry driver. He had done all kinds 622 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,800 of things. And oddly Kubby Brockley had also been a 623 00:35:19,039 --> 00:35:20,960 casket maker. I don't know, maybe that's the connection they 624 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:26,000 found anyway. Ian Fleming hated the idea of Sean Connery 625 00:35:26,039 --> 00:35:28,519 being James Bond. He would refer to him only as 626 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:34,400 that lorry driver. But then when Doctor No came out 627 00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:37,800 and it was a massive success, Ian Fleming was like, Okay, 628 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,280 I like Sean Connery. It's all right. 629 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,559 Speaker 2: You know, we weren't alive obviously in the nineteen sixties, 630 00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:48,920 but the nineteen sixties are kind of known as having 631 00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:53,239 spy mania, right, So the Bond movies take off Thunderball 632 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,639 is the first movie ever that they showed round the 633 00:35:55,679 --> 00:35:57,760 clock twenty four hours a day because they had so 634 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,000 many people waiting in line to watch this movie. 635 00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: Okay, Jason, let's jump back in. Let's talk about some 636 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,719 kind of staples for the James Bond movie formula. Okay, yeah, 637 00:36:09,159 --> 00:36:11,880 So the first movie that came out in the James 638 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,440 Bond series that we consider a cannon film is Doctor No. Right, 639 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,400 we talked about some of the things that came before, 640 00:36:18,599 --> 00:36:21,760 but Doctor No is the first of the Eon Productions, 641 00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:27,280 the first Sean Connery Bond movie, and it has as 642 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:32,000 the beginning scene the silhouette, the gun barrel, the turn 643 00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:38,239 and shoot that is iconic for all Bond movies. And 644 00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:43,000 when this first came out, the barrel and the silhouette, 645 00:36:43,039 --> 00:36:48,599 everybody started applauding at that scene before anybody knew what 646 00:36:48,679 --> 00:36:50,679 was going on with James Bond. But you know what, 647 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,519 it wasn't Sean Connery. 648 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 2: I know, that's amazing, huh it. 649 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: Was Yeah, it was a stuntman named Bob Simmons. It 650 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,159 was not Sean Connery in that first gun barrel scene. 651 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,119 Speaker 2: Okay, here's a little side note to Bob Simmons. All right, 652 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,639 the guy who did the gun barrel scene. I think 653 00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:11,480 for the first three movies, he is the guy at 654 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,079 the beginning of Thunderball that's dressed in drag that James 655 00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:19,440 Bond pulls the that's a man baby and punches him 656 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,719 right in the face. That's the guy who does the 657 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,400 gun barrel scene. 658 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,519 Speaker 1: That was a woman they had a woman, is a woman, 659 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,360 A woman, a woman right until Bond punches her square 660 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,800 in the jaw. Oh my gosh. 661 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 2: So yes, the gun barrel scene is absolutely a critical 662 00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:43,920 part of the Bond cannon, which you don't get at 663 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,119 the beginning of Never Say Never Again. And really Doctor No, 664 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,599 the first movie out of the gate, you didn't have 665 00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:52,719 that pre sequence scene and they're still kind of feeling 666 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,400 their way a little bit before they kind of nailed 667 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:55,639 down the formula right. 668 00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: And just as an interesting connection, Doctor No was released 669 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,480 the same day as the Beatles first single, and then 670 00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:07,480 there's this kind of a weird Yeah, there's this kind 671 00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:10,440 of weird competition. And then even in James Bond, at 672 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,599 some point he's he makes the comment about I can't 673 00:38:14,599 --> 00:38:17,440 remember the quote, but it ends with it's like listening 674 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,960 to the Beatles without ear muffs on. 675 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in Goldfinger. Yeah, yes, James Bond. 676 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,679 Speaker 1: Is too cool for the Beatles, right, So it wasn't 677 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,760 until Goldfinger that we got that full formula of the 678 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,960 beginning scene with like Bond always seduces a lady, he 679 00:38:34,039 --> 00:38:36,920 kills a bad guy, he gives his witty one liner, 680 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,840 and then the music and the silhouettes begin, and as 681 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,079 it turns out, the Goldfinger soundtrack actually outsaw the Beatles 682 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,159 that year's Finger came out gold Finger. 683 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a lot of things to the formula 684 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,039 which I'd love to discuss maybe at the end when 685 00:38:55,079 --> 00:38:57,800 we kind of do final judgment. But yeah, you have 686 00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:01,880 the pre gun barrel sequence, right, the gun barrel, You 687 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,559 have the theme song, opening credits. 688 00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: Still, what of naked Ladies? 689 00:39:06,639 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 2: Octopus? He kind of pushes the envelope on this. You know, 690 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,119 you have gadgets and babes, bad guys and henchmen. 691 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,039 Speaker 1: Don't don't forget the cool cars. 692 00:39:15,159 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 2: We've already argued about this on a previous podcast about 693 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,039 what the coolest James My car. 694 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,119 Speaker 1: Was, and I maintain I maintained my position it's the 695 00:39:22,119 --> 00:39:22,800 Aston Martin. 696 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 2: But and then at the end we're going to compare Bonds. 697 00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: With that formula. You had a lot of people who thought, wow, 698 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:31,880 this is just something that we can make fun of. 699 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,960 So there was tons of talk shows like David Frost 700 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,280 would make fun of Bond routine Lee back in the 701 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,480 UK and his co host later got her own show, 702 00:39:41,679 --> 00:39:47,719 Millicent Martin, and she would do these Bond spoofs as well. 703 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,840 And one of the actors that she got to play 704 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,199 Bond in her spoof was someone you might have heard of. 705 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:56,840 His name is Roger Moore. 706 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,119 Speaker 2: Oh really, I'd love to see that man. 707 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great. It is a great one. It's they're 708 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,880 trying the comedy out and he's still Bond. I mean 709 00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:11,119 it's ten years before he becomes Bond, but he's still 710 00:40:11,199 --> 00:40:16,519 Bond in this goofy wow like late night TV bit So. 711 00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:21,400 Thunderball is the ninth book and Ian Fleming series. It 712 00:40:21,519 --> 00:40:24,960 is the eighth full length Bond novel and it was 713 00:40:25,199 --> 00:40:28,840 first published in the UK by Jonathan Cape on March 714 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,719 twenty seventh, nineteen sixty one. It was the novelization of 715 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,239 that script that we talked about. After the lawsuit, McClory 716 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,960 gained the literary and film rights for the screenplay, while 717 00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:43,440 Fleming was given the rights to the novel, although it 718 00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:46,480 had to be recognized as being quote based on a 719 00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:50,000 screen treatment by Kevin McClory, Jack whitting him and Ian 720 00:40:50,039 --> 00:40:51,039 Fleming in that order. 721 00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting you and I talked off air. Kubby 722 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,519 Brockley and Harry Saltzman had to move up the production 723 00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:00,079 of Thunderball or else Kevin mcluy was going to do 724 00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:03,119 it without them. So the interesting thing to me as 725 00:41:03,159 --> 00:41:06,360 a Bond fan is Thunderballs the fourth movie made. But 726 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,320 that wasn't the original slate. We were supposed to get 727 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,039 on Her Majesty's Secret Service as number four, which means 728 00:41:13,159 --> 00:41:16,360 that Sean Connery would have played instead of George Lasmbie 729 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,719 the Bond from that movie. 730 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,639 Speaker 1: Kind of interesting, right, Yeah, this lawsuit is not an 731 00:41:20,639 --> 00:41:24,199 insignificant thing. I mean, Ian Fleming had a heart attack 732 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,079 during this short lawsuit. He had a heart attack in 733 00:41:27,159 --> 00:41:29,920 the middle of it. And then yeah, just a little 734 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,800 while after, just August of nineteen sixty four, nine months 735 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,800 after the trial is over, he has another heart attack 736 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:43,719 and dies at the age of fifty six. So they 737 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,840 make that movie, and then in nineteen seventy six, Ten 738 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:52,000 years later, mcclury announces he wants to produce an original 739 00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:55,159 James Bond film. The title that he wants to use 740 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,360 is Warhead Warhead eight or James Bond of the Secret Service. 741 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:04,320 But the project gets hampered by the Fleming Trustees and 742 00:42:05,039 --> 00:42:10,360 the Eon Producers filing lawsuits, right, and he gets slowed up. 743 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,159 I mean, this is nineteen seventy six, and we know 744 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,079 Never Say Never Again doesn't come out for another seven years. 745 00:42:17,519 --> 00:42:20,400 He was not able to get the title of James 746 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,800 Bond of the Secret Service. They did stop him from 747 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,320 doing that because it was too close to the title 748 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:27,719 of Her Majesty's Secret Service. 749 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 2: Now here's the interesting thing to me. Obviously, with Never 750 00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:33,800 Say Never Again, you get Sean Connery back in the role. 751 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,440 But before he sort of had him there, he needed 752 00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:41,079 a Bond, so he was going after Richard Burton, and 753 00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:43,800 he went after George Lassabie. That would have been interesting 754 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,840 to see George Lassabie back in that role after nineteen 755 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,079 sixty nine is Her Majesty's Secret Service with Orson Wells 756 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:51,719 as Blowfield. 757 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: Right, Eon Productions was looking at other actors to play 758 00:42:55,079 --> 00:42:59,719 in Octopussy and then when Sean Connery finally says, okay, 759 00:43:00,039 --> 00:43:02,880 do it again. Ion Production says there's no way we 760 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,280 can come out with James Brolin. And so at that 761 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,199 point Roger Moore, he had fulfilled his contract and was 762 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,360 on a movie by movie Basis, and he was ready 763 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,440 to be done, but they convinced him to come back 764 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:13,280 and do Octopussy. 765 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't take on Sean Connery in some rogue 766 00:43:16,159 --> 00:43:19,639 James Bond movie, some new guy, right, right, you know, 767 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,440 as early as like you said, nineteen seventy five, nineteen 768 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,800 seventy six, he's getting this together. In nineteen seventy eight 769 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,000 he works on James Bond of the Secret Service, hoping 770 00:43:29,039 --> 00:43:32,000 to get orson Wells as blow felled. Richard Attenborough as 771 00:43:32,039 --> 00:43:35,880 the director, and they were hoping to go up against Moonraker. 772 00:43:35,559 --> 00:43:39,800 Speaker 1: Right, and Richard Attenborough, of course we know later on 773 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,119 later on goes on to become the grandfather in Jurassic Park, 774 00:43:44,199 --> 00:43:48,480 the park owner's right, who they had originally considered for 775 00:43:48,519 --> 00:43:52,800 that role. Mister Sean Connery. Yeah, and then James Brolin, 776 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,119 of course, is the key actor in the movie West World, 777 00:43:56,519 --> 00:43:59,880 which was written and directed by Michael Crichton. 778 00:44:00,199 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 2: Also plays p w in Peeman's Big Adventure. 779 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,480 Speaker 1: Well that we can't leave that out, and obviously James 780 00:44:08,519 --> 00:44:09,760 Bond like performance. 781 00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:15,159 Speaker 2: But here's where it gets really interesting to me. So 782 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,679 when Kevin McClory starts organizing this idea of going up 783 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,280 against Moonraker and I'm gonna kick their button. They're going 784 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,599 to be sorry they did this to me. He calls 785 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,599 Sean Connery and so he calls him up and says, listen, 786 00:44:27,679 --> 00:44:29,800 you're the best Bond ever. You know what he does. 787 00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:32,239 We need your insight. Why don't you come over and 788 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,559 help us and be a consultant on our script, which 789 00:44:34,599 --> 00:44:36,559 we know is a big smoke screen, just to kind 790 00:44:36,559 --> 00:44:39,679 of lure him back in. Right, play the role. 791 00:44:39,559 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 1: Again, right, And so the way that they ultimately land 792 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,480 on the title that they land on is once he 793 00:44:44,599 --> 00:44:47,800 accepts the role, his wife says to him, I thought 794 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,559 you said you were never going to do another James 795 00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:52,000 Bond movie again, and he's like, well, I feel like 796 00:44:52,039 --> 00:44:54,039 I need to do it again, and she says, well, 797 00:44:54,199 --> 00:44:59,760 never say never again, and she actually receives credit in 798 00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:04,880 the closing credits for the title of the of the movie. 799 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,760 Speaker 2: Okay, before we get to never say it ever again. 800 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,079 An octopusy and thank you for hanging around. It's taking 801 00:45:11,159 --> 00:45:13,519 us a long time to get here. But there's a 802 00:45:13,559 --> 00:45:17,480 couple of interesting tidbits in the other Bond movies before 803 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,639 we get to this point. Okay, so the Spy who 804 00:45:20,679 --> 00:45:23,840 Loved Me, you're going up against this guy named Stromberg 805 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,880 that was originally supposed to be Blowfeld, but because of 806 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,760 all these legal issues, they didn't want something to happen 807 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,480 to spy he Loved Me, so they just changed the 808 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,480 specter and Blowfeld they took that out. So that's why 809 00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,039 Stromberg acts exactly like Blowfield. And at the beginning of 810 00:45:38,039 --> 00:45:41,480 four Yar Eyes Only, there is a scene where Bond 811 00:45:41,559 --> 00:45:44,880 is visiting his dead wife's grave, who was killed on 812 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,719 Our Majesty's secret service. He gets in a helicopter and 813 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,800 his helicopter is taken over by a guy in a 814 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,480 wheelchair with a bald head and you know, stroking the cat. 815 00:45:55,639 --> 00:45:58,400 You don't never see his face, and he never names himself, 816 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,079 and it's clearly supposed to be Blowfilm. He's taking control 817 00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:03,679 the helicopter and he's gonna kill Bond. So Bond escapes, 818 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,599 takes back control of the helicopter, picks this guy up 819 00:46:06,679 --> 00:46:08,440 and he takes him and he dumps him down this 820 00:46:08,679 --> 00:46:14,039 humongous chimney, and it's basically like we're killing Blowfield. Double birds. 821 00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 3: To you, Kevin McClory, we haven't really talked about what 822 00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:25,599 happened when Sean Connery stopped doing the Bond movies and 823 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:26,880 Roger Moore took over. 824 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,599 Speaker 1: There was a big backlash at the idea of having 825 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,159 more takeover, and I realized we have that George Lasmbie 826 00:46:36,199 --> 00:46:38,639 thing in the middle there. Right when this happened in 827 00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,519 eighty three, there was kind of this big like all 828 00:46:42,599 --> 00:46:47,559 of those people who had been Roger Moore haters were like, ah, 829 00:46:47,639 --> 00:46:53,440 finally the real James Bond is back, right, Yeah, But 830 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,679 as we find out that movie did not do as 831 00:46:56,679 --> 00:46:57,719 well as Octavius did. 832 00:46:58,119 --> 00:47:03,079 Speaker 4: That's right, all right, everybody, Now that you know the 833 00:47:03,159 --> 00:47:05,639 history of these two movies, join us next week when 834 00:47:05,679 --> 00:47:09,519 we will get into the comparison of Never Say Never 835 00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:11,320 Again in Octopus. 836 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,559 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. We will see 837 00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:15,239 you next week.