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Speaker 1: What Up? What Up? What Up? What Up? Everybody? Welcome

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to another episode of Let's Ask Paul, the podcast where

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you can ask me Paul Abernathy anything you want on

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the National Electrical Code and of course all things electrically related.

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Thanks for joining us on the podcast. Hopefully this is

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not the first time you've listened to one of my podcasts.

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I have over a thousand plus episodes on all different

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topics about the National Electrical Code. They're available on all

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of your popular podcasts listening platforms like Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts,

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Deezer Spreaker, iHeartRadio, Spotify, and you can even listen on

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our free mobile app as well. If you go to

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our website fast track System that's fast Tracks trx system

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dot com, go to the navigation and look under the

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info tab and you will actually see a link to

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our free mobile app. Now, it's not available in the

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app stores. Don't go looking at the Google App Store

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or the iPhone store. No, we don't get into all

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that garbage. We're not going to load anything on your phone.

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All we're doing is loading a link to our web

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based mobile app. That way, it runs clean and quick,

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it doesn't bog down your phone, and it easily allows

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us to change things in real time, so you always

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get the latest and greatest things from our mobile app.

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You can listen to the podcasts there, you can join

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our blog, you can watch Coffee Hour from there, you

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can go to fast tracks Tube from there, there's many things.

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There's a lot of calculators on there. It's free, doesn't

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cost you anything, Okay, I won't spam you or send

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you stuff. And again, it's just a great way to

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gain additional knowledge and it's a great way to have

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it in your pocket and in case you need it,

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you just whip it out. Boom. You got a lot

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of resources right there. So we encourage you to check

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it out. It's free over on fastracksystem dot com. All right,

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well today's episode, I did have a question that came

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in and I wanted to address it in this question.

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It's about a change that's coming or they heard that

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there's a change coming to the twenty twenty six edition

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of the National Electrical Code and they wanted to know

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how we'll impact them. So I'll read it and of

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course then we'll dig deep into it and elaborate on

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it because it is a change that will impact you,

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even if you're in the twenty seventeen or twenty twenty,

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it's going to impact you in a sense that it's

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going to do something that you don't really have to

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do anything, but it's going to fix itself in case

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you run into that random issue with an inspector who

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makes a statement because they don't understand and listings. But

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you're gonna be covered. And that's what we're going to

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talk about today. So here's what it says. It says, Hey, Paul,

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love the podcast. I love joining you every morning on

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coffee Hour. I have a question. I'm hearing through the

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grapevine that in the twenty twenty sixth edition of the

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National Electrical Code that the fasteners i e. Staples, straps,

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hangars are going to be required to be listed where

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they've never been required to be listed before. Is this true?

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Or am I hearing rumors like the old TikTok rumors

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that I know you hate. Thanks? What does he say here? Oh?

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He says, thank you for all you do for the industry,

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and I look forward to hearing your reply. All right,

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so great, I thank you for that. That was also

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done from over at Paul Abernathy dot com where you

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can submit things to, and I will start out by

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you know, people always say, Paul, you're very long win

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and so if you ever thought of doing an executive summary, okay,

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so I'm going to do one right now. My executive

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summary is you are one hundred percent correct that they

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are going to be moving to require listing for staples,

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straps and hangars moving forward in the twenty twenty six

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edition of the National Electrical Code. Now that's going to

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be in the dot two, which is going to be

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now where we go to listings for different wiring methods.

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So it's going to tell you different things. So for

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my example today, I'll just make it easy for us.

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We will look at non metallic sheath cable Article three

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thirty four. Well, look at that, because that's the one

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I feel that impacts the most people because we're so

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used to using staples, and you know, you get staples

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you simply. You know, I teach apprentices, actually believe it

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or not, I would teach them how to drive a staple,

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because there's a misconception about like they have to drive

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the freaking stables staples so tight to you know, to

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basically almost embed the cable into the wood. And that's

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not how you drive a staple. I tell students all

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the time, you know, drive it until it barely touches

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the cable, or just shy of touching the cable. It's

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perfectly fine. All it's there to do is hold it

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in place, right, so you know, keep it in the

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in the middle of the framing member, that type of scenario. Right. Okay,

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So we're going to see a change in the twenty

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twenty sixth edition of the National Electrical Code. It's nothing

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so much that you electricians have to worry about. This

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really has the manufacturers scrambling, and the manufacturers are scrambling

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because staples, straps, hangars have never been required to be

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listed before as far as the National Electrical Code, although

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there is a UL standard out there regarding it, and

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that UL standard is twenty two thirty nine and it

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has been around for quite a long time. The name

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of that standard is the Standard for Safety for Hardware

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for the Support of Conduit, Tubing and Cable and that

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was actually introduced nearly twenty years ago, so it's not

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something new. But as far as the National Electrical Code

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was concerned, as far as manufacturers who made those securing

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and supporting components that hardware like staples and straps, they

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never had to go through that evaluation. So now all

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of the manufacturers of staples, straps, and hangars are going

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to be going through evaluation and trying to get their

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products evaluated before the twenty twenty six NEC is published

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and if they're after the publisher, typically it's a little

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bit of a lag time before any states adopted. Usually

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like Massachusetts is the first. You know, I lie the

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area of NFPA if you will, But they'll get it

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and then states will start to adopt it. Next they'll

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come will probably be like Texas and whatnot. So the

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manufacturers realize that under the twenty twenty six code, if

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they don't have a listed strap, staple or hanger, then

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they will not be able to have a compliant electrical

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install because it requires that they be listed splices, listed straps,

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listed hangers, right, And they're like, okay, well we have

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to rapidly get our products evaluated. Well, that's great for

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the third party, the nrtls like the ul and ETL,

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Innertech and all these other If they actually evaluate to

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twenty two thirty nine, then they're like, bring it to me, baby,

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Bring it to me, you know, because the fastening folks

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never had to go through this before unless they did

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it voluntarily. Now they do, and so that's where you're

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going to see the scramble now as far as the

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electricians concerned, if you're in the twenty seventeen, say in Tennessee,

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some of those areas that are still lingering behind, Hey, Tennessee,

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wake up, come on, or other states that are lingering behind.

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It doesn't matter whether it's twenty seventeen, twenty twenty, twenty

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twenty three. Currently in those editions of the NEC, it's

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not a requirement for the fasteners like staples, straps, and

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hangars to be listed. Now they may be identified for

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specific application, and that's what they've been getting away with,

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but they're not listed. But there was nothing in the

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e NEEC that required them to be listed. And many

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people confused the part of the code where it's said

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that the cable and the fittings have to be listed,

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and so they would say, well, I consider the strap

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or the staple to be a fitting. Well, we use

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that as inspecters as a way to impose that. But

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the reality is, if that would be me telling you

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you can't use any staples in a a dwelling, for example,

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because I think that there need to be listed well

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moving forward in the twenty twenty six edition, they will be,

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and by manufacturers doing this, you're not going to have

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to worry about it regardless of a previous edition of

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the NEEC when it comes to any of that argument,

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because obviously the products that you're going to buy are

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going to be listed moving forward in that date. So

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twenty twenty six is going to requirement. So that's the

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manufacturers are all racing to get that done, right. Okay,

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So but what I wanted to kind of show you

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a little bit, or at least I would talk about

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it is what does it say? And we'll talk about

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the two significant ones that I think is three thirty

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four for non metallic sheet cable and then of course

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MC cable because that's pound for pound. There's probably more

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of that product installed per foot that we have to

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worry about. And yes, there's a lot of raceways out there,

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and yes it you know, the rules are still going

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to apply, uh to for example, EMT, because if you

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go look at EMT, it's gonna pretty much say the

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same type of thing, if you will. Right, it's basically

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the listing and so associated fittings, factory elbows, em t

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all that that type of stuff. But it's not going

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to say it in the same language as it is

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for the nonmatology cable and for like something like an

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MC cable. Right, it's just gonna say it differently. Right.

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So that's the that's the thing that we want to

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talk about and point out. So let's do that first.

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Let's look at three thirty four in the twenty twenty

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sixth edition of the NEC And we can do that

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because you can go in and look at it at

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the second draft stage, and of course we've been through

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the nitmams. They're done and all that type of stuff,

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and so we can go look at it. So first

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thing we want to look at is that dot two. Okay,

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So three thirty four dot two is going to be

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the listing requirement section. Now it's not dot six anymore.

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It's going to be dot two. And what it says

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here is it says listing. Now. One of the things

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that I will tell you is that everything goes through

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what we call a public input and then the community

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people get to look at it and see what was

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done whatever the code Panel accepted, and then of course

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it goes back out for publication, and then other people

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will submit things to it and say, well I disagree

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with this or that, and some did send in some

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public comments that says, you know what, I don't believe

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staples need to be listed. What's any different A Staple's

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a staple. I mean, you're not going to do anything

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different to it. So is a listed staple going to

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be any different than an unlisted staple? And only difference

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is somebody manufacturer is going to have to pay a

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bunch of money to get their product listed now, and

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it's exact same product. It's exact same thing. Okay, So anyway,

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so let's kind of look at what you're going to

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see in your twenty twenty six edition of the NEEC.

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It's going to say listing requirements. It says the following

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items shall be listed and identified. So it's not only

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to be listed for use with in this case, non

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metallic sheaf cable, but it also has to make sure

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that there's identifications or an identifier that's for use with

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a non metallic sheaf cable. Number one obviously listed and

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labeled type NM an NMC cable. And by the way,

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I don't believe anybody makes the NMC anymore. It would

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be the non it would be UF that would take

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the place of an NMC. So three Article three forty

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we follow those rules typically, and they're going to kick

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you back to three thirty four for installations. So nm

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cable NMC obviously has to be listed. Next it says

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cable ties, staples, straps, and hangars. So now, previously cable

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ties did need to be listed, okay, but you know,

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for securing and supporting. But here it's just now adding straps,

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it's adding staples, and it's adding hangers. All these now

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have to be listed. So that means that the manufacturers

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are going to have to submit their products for evaluation

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under UL twenty two to thirty nine, which has again

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been around for nearly two decades, and they're going to

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have to pay. And what that is also going to

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mean at the price of those little things that you

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see laying all over the floor that your apprentices and

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your helpers don't seem to care a lot about, but you,

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as an owner go around and say, pick up that staple,

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pick up that wire nut. Okay, so at the end

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of the day, staples are lobbled to increase in cost.

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And you're probably thinking, I don't care, it's not that

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much of an increase. But if manufacturers have to get

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evaluations done and they're gonna pay, and I can tell

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you in the wiring cable industry, we pay per the

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foot of the use of a third party mark. It's

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not a one time fee. For example, we pay per

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use of foot and are selected in RTL that we choose.

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Same thing's gonna happen. Are the manufacturers of staples gonna

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have to pay per five hundred staples or per staple

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or per box or per I don't know how that's

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gonna go, but it means that the manufacturers of these

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fasteners are going to now maybe not even changed what

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they do. They're not gonna change anything on their staple,

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but they're going to now have to have it evaluated

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and they're gonna pay more money for it for that evaluation.

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And what does that do? That means the cost of

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your products are going to go up as well, okay,

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and you're gonna have to carry that over to your customer.

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And then lastly, it says the NM and NMC cable

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fittings used for connecting cable to boxes, cabinets or other equipment. Again,

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so those are the actual fittings that are going to

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do like a connector or whatnot that's going to transition

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the cable assembly to the actual box or cabinet right

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or other piece of equipment. That's a fitting. So that's

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got to be listed and again evaluated for use with

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the cable. That type of thing. We have to make

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sure clamping it down doesn't damage it compress it. But again,

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you can't fix stupid. So you can take a staple

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in an unlisted staple versus a listed staple, it's still

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going to be the same staple, and it still could

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be driven too far and it still could cause a problem. Now,

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I did not like the substantiation that was submitted by

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the gentleman that submitted it because I believe that he

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has a vested interest in his public input. So I

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don't kind of like that. But at the end of

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the day, he makes a statement that it's going to

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make the staple safer, and I don't know how in

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the world that would make the staples safer. I really don't.

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But at the end of the day, it is going

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to drive up the cost of staples. Right, So keep

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you know, always keep that in mind. Now when it

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comes to the next one, which is also and we're

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just choosing two for this podcast, is the MC cable

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metal clad cable, right, And it says basically the exact

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same thing. It tells you that the MC cable shall

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be listed identified, which already was requirement for the MC cable,

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and that would go the same for the fittings that

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transition from the cable into a box or cabinet. That

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did not change. But what they added was that the

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cable ties, staples, straps, and hangars, okay, are to be

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listed and actually identified for their application. Now, I think

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all of the straps and staples and things like that

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probably were well at identified by the manufacturer. Obviously, you

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buy a box of non metallic sheath cable staples on

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the side, it talks about non metallic sheath cable, talks

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about the numbered cables that the staple can hold, all

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those type of things, depending on the staples link that

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you get. I think they probably already do all this stuff.

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They just never were forced to have to go meet

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Uil twenty two thirty nine. Now some of them may

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have done it voluntarily. They just didn't need to print

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it on anything because there's you know, there's no requirement,

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and you can't say that it's you know, you listed

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unless it's evaluated to be a truthful statement. All right,

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So what's the point. You're not gonna put the money

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in it if you don't have to do it well.

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Starting in twenty twenty six, you are going to have

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to do it right. So keeping those things in mind

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that we're seeing the expansion of that. And again, I'm

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not sure I like the Code Panel's statement, but at

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the end of the day, it is what it is.

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I don't know that the manufacturers, like I said, of

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staples and straps, are going to change anything, and I

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would expect them to pass the requirements of twenty two

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thirty nine unless they're just grossly designed differently. And I

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don't know what would be different. I really don't. Is

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it the staple with the little insulator in it's going

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to be better than the staple without. I know people

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love different ones and hate them, but at the end

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of the day, it's still a freaking staple. Could say, Okay,

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So anyway, we'll see how that pans out. For you

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that are in an earlier cycle. You're not gonna have

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to worry about it because when this happens, you're just

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automatically going to have listed fasteners like that. You're gonna

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have listed staples, straps and hangars. You're just gonna have

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it that type of thing, all right. So hopefully that

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explains that out a little bit. That's what you got

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coming for the twenty twenty six when it comes to that,

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So get ready for it. But guess what, Just sit back,

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relax because you know what I can promise you the

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manufacturer of those staples, straps and hangers are scrambling right

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now to get their products for evaluation before the twenty

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twenty six comes. So there's no blip in the road, right,

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no bubble that they got to worry about. Makes sense,

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all right, folks. All right, that's it. That's all I

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got on this episode. Hope to catch you next time.

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Thanks for joining me. Remember if you have any questions

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that you want to submit over at Paul Abernathy dot com,

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please do so, and I'm more than happy to answer

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them either in an email or if selected on an

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upcoming podcast just like today's take care, God bless oh,

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don't think