Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. Brian
Speaker 1: Coohberger and the evidence against him has certainly piled up. However,
Speaker 1: all of it is circumstantial in nature at least to
Speaker 1: this point as far as the public's concerned. But some
Speaker 1: of that information that has been released to the public
Speaker 1: is very strong, and some of the strongest of that evidence,
Speaker 1: the DNA evidence, is being tied together with cell phone
Speaker 1: records that were used to put Brian Koberger at the
Speaker 1: scene of the crime multiple times leading up to it
Speaker 1: and even afterwards. So in this episode, we're gonna hear
Speaker 1: from more experts who are talking about the cell phone
Speaker 1: records and how the cell phone records could possibly help
Speaker 1: the prosecution get to pay dirt and secure a conviction.
Speaker 1: Today's article was published by news Week and the headline
Speaker 1: how Brian Coberger's cell phone records could be used against them.
Speaker 1: This article was authored by Kalita Rockman. It will be
Speaker 1: months before prosecutors try to show a judge that they
Speaker 1: have enough evidence to justify the charges against Brian Coburger,
Speaker 1: and experts have told Newsweek that the cell phone data
Speaker 1: could be instrumental in providing that evidence and it's going
Speaker 1: to be very, very crucial what they come back with
Speaker 1: when they really go into that phone. All of those
Speaker 1: GPS coordinates, all of the stuff, the internal stuff, not
Speaker 1: just the pings right the connecting to the cell phone tower.
Speaker 1: That's a lot easier to explain than say, if your
Speaker 1: phone connected to somebody's Wi Fi. We all know that
Speaker 1: Wi Fi doesn't go that far away, and when you
Speaker 1: leave your house, it's not long before you drop your WiFi,
Speaker 1: and if you leave it on Rome, you'll pick it
Speaker 1: up on somebody else's house. Maybe now it might not
Speaker 1: connect if it's a private connection, but it will register
Speaker 1: that it was connected to that Wi Fi router. Look,
Speaker 1: these guys that go into these phones and get to
Speaker 1: forensically snooping around, they're good at what they do, and
Speaker 1: more times than not they find what they're looking for.
Speaker 1: So if any of that happened and Brian Coberger's phone
Speaker 1: connected or anything like that, they're gonna have that information
Speaker 1: and they're gonna use it against them. Coburger, twenty eight,
Speaker 1: is accused of breaking into a rental home in Moscow, Idaho,
Speaker 1: in the early hours of November thirteenth, and fatally stabbing
Speaker 1: four University of Idaho students Kaylee Gonsalvez, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle,
Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin. He is facing four counts of first
Speaker 1: degree murder and one count of felony burglary. He has
Speaker 1: not entered a plea, but a lawyer who represented him
Speaker 1: previously said Coburger was eager to be exonerated. The preliminary
Speaker 1: hearing is set to begin on June twenty sixth, and
Speaker 1: this trial is going to be an absolute zoo. There's
Speaker 1: going to be a ton of members of the media,
Speaker 1: a ton of members of the independent media, content creators.
Speaker 1: You know, there's going to be psychics and all the
Speaker 1: rest of the carnival barkers showing up to have their
Speaker 1: five minutes of fame. A probable cause affid David unsealed
Speaker 1: in early January, revealed that investigators obtained Coburger's cell phone
Speaker 1: records after police officers at Washington State University, where he
Speaker 1: was a doctoral candidate in criminology, identified a white twenty
Speaker 1: fifteen HONDEI a Lantra registered to him. It matched the
Speaker 1: description of a vehicle that had been seen near the
Speaker 1: scene of the crime on the night of the killings.
Speaker 1: The Affid David said Coburger's phone was either turned off
Speaker 1: or on airplane mode around the time of the killings,
Speaker 1: but the data right before it was turned off suggested
Speaker 1: he was heading in the direction of the home, while
Speaker 1: data after it was turned back on suggested he was
Speaker 1: heading away from there. I mean, come on, bro, really,
Speaker 1: just leave your phone at your apartment, leave it on,
Speaker 1: get yourself a burner, and be done with it. Using
Speaker 1: the data and surveillance footage of the vehicle that police
Speaker 1: identified as a white Hondai Lantra, investigators sketched out a
Speaker 1: possible route that Coburger could have taken on the night
Speaker 1: of the killings. Other cellular data showed Coburger had been
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood at least a dozen times prior to
Speaker 1: the murders, always late in the evening or early in
Speaker 1: the morning, the affid David said, And I'm sure he
Speaker 1: was just over there to hang out and listen to
Speaker 1: his audio book and admire the facade on the side
Speaker 1: of the house. He liked the way people mow their
Speaker 1: lawns over there a little bit better than they do
Speaker 1: over in Pullman. Or maybe he was over there having
Speaker 1: some hot cocoa and trying to figure out how to
Speaker 1: end the beef between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Come on, man,
Speaker 1: we all know what old boy was doing over there here.
Speaker 1: Experts tell Newsweek about how Coburger's cell phone data and
Speaker 1: other records could be used against them. Joseph gia Coloone,
Speaker 1: adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, cell
Speaker 1: phone records place him at or near the scene. Gia
Speaker 1: Colone said that Coburger turned his device on and off
Speaker 1: can explain intent to go unnoticed. He said, in addition,
Speaker 1: if he left his phone on, he might have attached
Speaker 1: to the Wi Fi. There is still so much we
Speaker 1: don't know about the cell phone, and that's a very
Speaker 1: fair statement. We have no idea what they swooped up
Speaker 1: with those digital search warrants. You know that they got
Speaker 1: a ton of evidence from Brian Coberger's accounts, from his
Speaker 1: cloud account, any accounts that were attached to his phone,
Speaker 1: forget it. That's how they usually nail people these days.
Speaker 1: You can't do anything without your phone recording it. Gia
Speaker 1: Colone said he would be interested in whether investigators have
Speaker 1: video surveillance that shows cob returning to his apartment on
Speaker 1: the night of the murders. I have yet to hear
Speaker 1: if any exists, he said. He said other records from
Speaker 1: Coburger's phone could also be key, such as map programs,
Speaker 1: internet searches, and other apps. Remember a lot of these
Speaker 1: apps you have to grant them permission to connect to
Speaker 1: your phone, to get your location, all kinds of invasive shit.
Speaker 1: So they leave a digital pattern of all of that.
Speaker 1: And when you have people who are forensically gifted when
Speaker 1: it comes to computers, the sky is the limit. It's
Speaker 1: amazing the things they can recover off of a computer
Speaker 1: or a cell phone or any digital record. Really, cell
Speaker 1: phone records, internet records and video surveillance not only play
Speaker 1: a role in this case, but just about every criminal
Speaker 1: investigation moving forward, he said. And that's for sure, that's
Speaker 1: the age we're in. If you're out here thinking you're
Speaker 1: going to commit crimes and get away with it, chances
Speaker 1: are you're not going to get away with it unless
Speaker 1: it's in the inner city, And of course that's a
Speaker 1: whole different ballgame. But if you're out here thinking you're
Speaker 1: going to get away with being a serial killer, if
Speaker 1: the police focus on you and they have the resources
Speaker 1: that we saw in Idaho. The chances are slimmed, the
Speaker 1: none that you're going to get away with it, Duncan Levin,
Speaker 1: managing partner of Levin and Associates. The cell phone records
Speaker 1: will be used to show, particularly that Coburger is alleged
Speaker 1: to have turned off his phone for a few hours
Speaker 1: around the time of the commission of the offense, and
Speaker 1: that at Piting, near the site of the murders, directly thereafter.
Speaker 1: Levin said. It also allegedly shows that he came to
Speaker 1: the area of the murder scene in the months proceeding
Speaker 1: and after remember nine am the next morning, what are
Speaker 1: you doing showing up there, bro Levin said. Coburger's defense
Speaker 1: attorney will argue that the cell towers are accurate to
Speaker 1: about twenty miles, which is the distance roughly between his
Speaker 1: apartment and the scene of the crime. In other words,
Speaker 1: he will argue that there is a margin of error
Speaker 1: in the records that does not prove what the state
Speaker 1: is alleging. And they're not wrong if they argue that.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be the bearer of bad news
Speaker 1: or anything. But if all they have is the pings,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a bad, bad time for the prosecution.
Speaker 1: They better have this other stuff Wi Fi, GPS, that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff, because that's ironclad. There's no arguing with that.
Speaker 1: If that data says you were there, my friend, you
Speaker 1: were there. Levin added, it's really true that our phones
Speaker 1: know everything about us. Cell Phone technology is being used
Speaker 1: around the country in criminal cases and act like beacons
Speaker 1: to show where people were and when. And I know
Speaker 1: for a fact a lot of organized criminals they're doing
Speaker 1: away with cell phones. They're not using them. I even
Speaker 1: know that there's some organizations going back they're using things
Speaker 1: like pagers. So as the technology catches up, you have
Speaker 1: to remember that the criminals, they're savvy. They're gonna change
Speaker 1: it up too, and they're gonna start using different technology
Speaker 1: to evade the police and evade the technology that the
Speaker 1: police are using. It's the age old cat and mouse game,
Speaker 1: isn't it. You're the cop on the robber. It's my
Speaker 1: job to rob it's your job to stop me. Michael mccauliffe,
Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor and elected state attorney, The location and
Speaker 1: the movements of Coburger before, during, and after the killings
Speaker 1: will play a major role in prosecuting them. Mccauliffe said
Speaker 1: cell phone location and tracking evidence will be the basis
Speaker 1: for that proof. Mcauliff explained that law enforcement uses triangulation
Speaker 1: from signals between individual cell phones and towers to determine
Speaker 1: movement and location, and newer phones can be located with
Speaker 1: greater accuracy with GPS technology. Cell Phone location and tracking
Speaker 1: evidence can be extremely valuable in building cases. He said.
Speaker 1: The caveat is that a phone needs to be tied
Speaker 1: to a specific person. However, I've given our cultural pension
Speaker 1: to taking one's phone everywhere. It is not difficult to
Speaker 1: link a cell phone and the person. Come on, who
Speaker 1: leaves the house without their cell phone unless you forgot it,
Speaker 1: or you're up to no good, or you're my mom.
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's leaving their house without a cell
Speaker 1: phone these days, certainly nobody who's twenty eight years old.
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor, have applied forensics at Jacksonville State
Speaker 1: University in Alabama. Coburger's cell phone records will be used
Speaker 1: alongside his social media usage in order to demonstrate his
Speaker 1: movements in the months, weeks, days, hours, minutes leading up
Speaker 1: to the crime. Morgan said it might be used to
Speaker 1: demonstrate that he made contact with the victims prior to
Speaker 1: the murders, as well as his movements around the time
Speaker 1: of the killings and the day after. Morgan said those
Speaker 1: records could also be used to validate or invalidate any
Speaker 1: possible alibis that may be put forth by Coburger's defense attorney.
Speaker 1: So I've had people out here say before, oh, well,
Speaker 1: what if he didn't have a cell phone, what if
Speaker 1: somebody stole it? What if the dog ate his homework?
Speaker 1: I mean, for real, You're gonna have to prove that.
Speaker 1: So it sounds fine when you're having an argument with
Speaker 1: somebody on the internet about if Brian Coberger is guilty
Speaker 1: or not, But in a courtroom in front of a jury,
Speaker 1: it's a whole different game. And if you don't have
Speaker 1: the evidence to back up what you're saying, why would
Speaker 1: the jurors believe any of your nonsense. Did you report
Speaker 1: your phone stolen? No? Did you turn it off? No?
Speaker 1: How did you get it back? Uh? See where we're
Speaker 1: going here? And trust me when I tell you I'm
Speaker 1: certainly not some kind of seasoned interrogator. I'm lucky I
Speaker 1: can pare my socks correctly in the morning folks. Nima Rochmani,
Speaker 1: president and co founder of West Coast Trial Lawyers, the
Speaker 1: cell side evidence would be better if Coburger's phone didn't
Speaker 1: turn off or go on airplane mode for several hours
Speaker 1: when the murders happened, Rockmanni said. Prosecutors will argue that
Speaker 1: the path of travel to and from Idaho is enough,
Speaker 1: and the phone pinging from the house before and after
Speaker 1: the murders is evidence he was stalking the victims. Rockmani said,
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be part of that evidence,
Speaker 1: but I also think they're going to point to things
Speaker 1: like the mad Greek, things like him being on campus
Speaker 1: at the student union, him following them on Instagram, him
Speaker 1: sending the messages on Instagram. All of that is going
Speaker 1: to tie together, and then it's going to be a
Speaker 1: nice little bow that they're going to drop for the jury.
Speaker 1: But the defense will argue that the time stamps of
Speaker 1: the cell site pings are inconsistent with the videos of
Speaker 1: the vehicle. Rockmani said, evidence that Coburger sent messages to
Speaker 1: one of the victims on social media could be used
Speaker 1: against them, and that's why it's important that that happened
Speaker 1: and why it's a crucial bit of evidence, and why
Speaker 1: you saw the judge, by the way, drop a gag
Speaker 1: order directly after this information became available. Well, you think
Speaker 1: that just happened on its own. Judge woke up and
Speaker 1: organically said, let's make my life more difficult by putting
Speaker 1: a gag order on damn near everybody. I highly doubt
Speaker 1: that Judge Marshall woke up and wanted to do that,
Speaker 1: but I bet you her hand was called. And a
Speaker 1: lot of it had to do with the fact that
Speaker 1: it was revealed that these girls were contacted by Brian
Speaker 1: Coolberger on Instagram, and when you follow the thread, that's
Speaker 1: exactly where it ends up, at least for me. Now, look,
Speaker 1: it might be something completely different, right, We might get
Speaker 1: information later on that none of that occurred. But I
Speaker 1: don't think we're gonna hear that. I think we're gonna
Speaker 1: hear that he did contact them on Instagram. He was
Speaker 1: following them on Instagram, and he was somebody who was
Speaker 1: on that campus quite often. Oh and the Mad Greek
Speaker 1: pretty sure he ate there too. The Instagram direct messages
Speaker 1: are also good. He said. That's the only direct connection
Speaker 1: so far between Coburger and one of the victims, and
Speaker 1: evidence of motive to commit the murders one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And remember you don't need motive per se. The murders
Speaker 1: were committed. And if you have enough evidence that the
Speaker 1: person who committed the murders is the person in the courtroom,
Speaker 1: well they're gonna be found guilty motive or not. Now,
Speaker 1: of course, motive is a very key component of figuring
Speaker 1: out what happened. Why would somebody be driven a murder?
Speaker 1: And that's what a defense attorney'll say, You can't even
Speaker 1: give me motive. Why would my client kill? Well, maybe
Speaker 1: your client's just a sick bastard. Ever think of that now.
Speaker 1: Obviously the prosecution won't say anything like that, but that's
Speaker 1: what we'll all be thinking. So it's going to be
Speaker 1: interesting to see which way Coburger goes and what sort
Speaker 1: of strategy they unferl But either way, you know, your boy,
Speaker 1: his beard and his big mouth will be here for
Speaker 1: the duration. All right, everybody that's gonna do it for
Speaker 1: this one. All of the information that goes along with
Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box.