Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. Now that we finished up with the Sarah
Speaker 1: Kellan transcript from her visit to Congress, we're going to
Speaker 1: begin diving in to Tova Noels, who of course was
Speaker 1: one of the guards that was tasked with watching Jeffrey
Speaker 1: Epstein on the night that he died. And the person
Speaker 1: asking the questions this time around is Ms. Feyerabend. This
Speaker 1: is a transcribed interview of Tova Noel conducted by the
Speaker 1: House Committee on Oversight and government reform granted to it
Speaker 1: pursuant to House Rule X. Accordingly, House Rule X grants
Speaker 1: the committee broad jurisdiction for the committee to conduct investigations
Speaker 1: of any matter at any time. This interview was requested
Speaker 1: by Chairman James Comer as part of the committee's investigation
Speaker 1: into the circumstances and subsequent investigations into the crimes of
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, the operation of sex trafficking rings,
Speaker 1: and ways for the federal government to effectively combat them.
Speaker 1: The ways in which Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell sought
Speaker 1: to curry favor and exercise influence to protect their illegal
Speaker 1: activities and potential violations of ethics rules related to elected officials.
Speaker 1: Can the witness please state her name and spell her
Speaker 1: last name for the record? Ms. Noel. Tova Noel. N-O-E-L. Ms. Farabend.
Speaker 1: I want to thank Ms. Noel for appearing here voluntarily today.
Speaker 1: My name is Emily Feyerbend, and I'm counsel for Chairman
Speaker 1: James Comer. Under the Committee on Oversight and Government Reforms Rules,
Speaker 1: you're allowed to have counsel present to advise you during
Speaker 1: this interview. Do you have counsel representing you in a
Speaker 1: personal capacity present with you today? Ms. Noel, yes. Question.
Speaker 1: Will counsel please identify themselves for the record? Mr. Foy,
Speaker 1: Jason Foye. Mr. Brioche, Rudy Brioche. Ms. Fierabend, thank you.
Speaker 1: And for the record, starting with the majority staff, can
Speaker 1: the additional staff members please introduce themselves with their name, title,
Speaker 1: and affiliation? Billy Grant, Deputy Chief Counsel for Investigations, Chairman Comer.
Speaker 1: Jack Emmer, Chief Counsel for Investigations for Chairman Comer. Mr. Ashworth,
Speaker 1: General Counsel for Chairman Comer. Ryan Giacchetti. Chief Counsel for
Speaker 1: Chairman Comer. Will Harnese, Professional Staff Member for Chairman Comer.
Speaker 1: Hannah Cathay, Professional Staff Member, Chairman Comer. Ellison Tolan, Counsel,
Speaker 1: Chairman Comer. Brittany Brignac, Senior Counsel for Chairman Comer. Ashley Vineyard,
Speaker 1: Deputy Staff Director for Chairman Comer. Mr. Spector, Peter Spector,
Speaker 1: Director of Oversight for Chairman Comer. Mallory Koger, Director of
Speaker 1: Operations and Chief Clerk. for Chairman Comer. The next group
Speaker 1: of names, all redacted. So we're just going to skip them. Ms. Fierabend,
Speaker 1: thank you all. And I also see that we have
Speaker 1: a member that just joined us. Would he please identify himself? Mr. Walkinshaw,
Speaker 1: good morning. I am James Walkinshaw from Virginia's 11th District. Question,
Speaker 1: thank you. Ms. Noel, before we begin, I'd like to
Speaker 1: go over the ground rules for this transcribed interview. The
Speaker 1: questioning will proceed in rounds. The majority will ask questions
Speaker 1: for up to an hour, and then the minority will
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to ask questions for up to an
Speaker 1: hour if they choose. To the extent the members have
Speaker 1: questions for the witness, they will be propounded during the
Speaker 1: side's respective rounds. The clock will stop if you need
Speaker 1: to confer with counsel, your counsel is speaking, and when
Speaker 1: members of staff are speaking during the opposing side's round
Speaker 1: of questions. We'll alternate back and forth until there are
Speaker 1: no more questions. Do you understand? Ms. Noel, yes, ma'am. Question.
Speaker 1: There is a court reporter taking down everything I say
Speaker 1: and everything you say to make a written record of
Speaker 1: the interview. For the record to be clear, please wait
Speaker 1: until the staffer questioning you finishes each question before you
Speaker 1: begin your answer, and the staffer will wait until you
Speaker 1: finish your response before proceeding to the next question. Further,
Speaker 1: to ensure the court reporter can properly record this interview,
Speaker 1: Please speak clearly, concisely, and slowly. Also, the court reporter
Speaker 1: cannot record nonverbal answers, such as nodding or shaking your head.
Speaker 1: So it's important that you answer each question with an
Speaker 1: audible verbal answer. Exhibits may be entered into the record.
Speaker 1: Majority exhibits will be identified numerically. Minority exhibits will be
Speaker 1: identified alphabetically. Do you understand? Ms. Noel, yes ma'am. Question 2.
Speaker 1: We want you to answer our questions in the most
Speaker 1: complete and truthful manner possible, so we'll take our time.
Speaker 1: If you have any questions or do not fully understand
Speaker 1: the question, please let us know. We will attempt to clarify,
Speaker 1: add context to, or rephrase our questions. If we ask
Speaker 1: about specific conversations or events in the past, and you're
Speaker 1: unable to recall the exact words or details, you should
Speaker 1: testify to the substance of those conversations or events to
Speaker 1: the best of your recollection. If you recall only a
Speaker 1: part of a conversation or event, you should give us
Speaker 1: your best recollection of those events or parts of conversations
Speaker 1: that you recall. Do you understand? Ms. Nova, yes ma'am. Question.
Speaker 1: Although you're here voluntarily and you will not be sworn in,
Speaker 1: you are required by law pursuant to Title 18 of
Speaker 1: the U.S. Code Section 1001 to answer questions from Congress truthfully.
Speaker 1: This also applies to questions posed by congressional staff. In
Speaker 1: the interview, do you understand? Ms. Noel, yes ma'am. Question.
Speaker 1: This includes both knowingly providing false testimony, but also stating
Speaker 1: that you do not recall or remember something when in
Speaker 1: fact you do. Do you understand? Furthermore, you cannot tell
Speaker 1: half-truths or exclude information necessary to make your statements accurate.
Speaker 1: You're required to provide all information that would make your
Speaker 1: response truthful. A deliberate failure to disclose information can constitute
Speaker 1: a false statement. Do you understand? Ms. Noel, yes ma'am. Question,
Speaker 1: is there any reason that you're unable to provide truthful
Speaker 1: testimony in today's interview? Noel, no ma'am. Question, please note
Speaker 1: that if you wish to assert privilege over any statement today,
Speaker 1: that assertion must comply with the rules of the Committee
Speaker 1: on Oversight and Government Reform. Pursuant to that, Committee Rule
Speaker 1: 16c1 states, for the chair to consider assertions of privilege
Speaker 1: over testimony or statements, witnesses or entities must clearly state
Speaker 1: the specific privilege being asserted and the reason for the
Speaker 1: assertion on or before the scheduled date of testimony or appearance.
Speaker 1: Do you understand? Ms. Noel, yes, ma'am. Question. Ordinarily, we
Speaker 1: take a five-minute break at the end of each hour
Speaker 1: of questioning and But if you need a longer break,
Speaker 1: or a break before that, please let us know, and
Speaker 1: we'll be happy to accommodate. However, to the extent that
Speaker 1: there is a pending question, we would ask you finish
Speaker 1: answering the question before we take the break. Do you understand? Ms. Noel,
Speaker 1: yes ma'am. Question, do you have any other questions before
Speaker 1: we begin? Noel, no ma'am. Question, I understand you have
Speaker 1: an opening statement. Would you like to read that now? Noel, yes.
Speaker 1: Good morning, my name is Tova Noel. and I'm 37
Speaker 1: years old. I appear here today voluntarily in response to
Speaker 1: the request of the House Oversight Committee to answer questions
Speaker 1: about the circumstances and subsequent investigation of the death of Mr.
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein in 2019. Before I begin my opening statement,
Speaker 1: I would like to take a moment to say that
Speaker 1: my thoughts and prayers are with the victims of Jeffrey Epstein,
Speaker 1: and that my decision to voluntarily appear before this committee,
Speaker 1: in part, is influenced by my desire to to provide
Speaker 1: clarity for the women harmed by Mr. Epstein and his co-conspirators.
Speaker 1: I emigrated from Antigua to the United States when I
Speaker 1: was 12 years old. At 16, I graduated high school
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. When I turned 17, I attempted to enlist
Speaker 1: in the United States Army, but was unable to do so.
Speaker 1: I was a minor, and my mother refused to consent
Speaker 1: to my enlistment. When I turned 19 years old, I
Speaker 1: enlisted and served in the Army National Guard for six years,
Speaker 1: receiving an honorable discharge in 2014. During my military service,
Speaker 1: I was deployed during Operation Enduring Freedom and stationed in Kuwait.
Speaker 1: While serving our country, I became a U.S. citizen in 2009.
Speaker 1: During my final year in the Army, I finished college-level
Speaker 1: courses and earned an Associate of Applied Science in Criminal
Speaker 1: Justice in 2014. I went back to school to earn
Speaker 1: a bachelor's degree in Criminal Justice from John Jay College
Speaker 1: in 2017. After I earned my bachelor's degree, I briefly
Speaker 1: worked at the United States Postal Service until the opportunity
Speaker 1: to work as a federal correctional officer for the Federal
Speaker 1: Bureau of Prisons. I decided to pursue the role because
Speaker 1: it was in the criminal justice field. On June 24, 2018,
Speaker 1: I began working for the Federal Bureau of Prisons. I
Speaker 1: was assigned to the MCC in Manhattan. Around March 2019,
Speaker 1: during my first year as a federal correctional officer, I
Speaker 1: sustained an injury on the job. While on leave, I
Speaker 1: missed training classes that were required to be assigned to
Speaker 1: the SHU. These training courses were specifically related to the
Speaker 1: duties and responsibilities to work in the SHU. When I
Speaker 1: returned to work in June 2019, I was assigned to
Speaker 1: work in the SHU, even though I never received the
Speaker 1: required specialized training. Prior to June 2019, I never worked
Speaker 1: in the SHU. When I was assigned to the SHU,
Speaker 1: I was instructed to sign a document that indicated that
Speaker 1: I received the SHU training. When I advised my supervisor
Speaker 1: that I did not receive the training, I was told
Speaker 1: not to worry about it. I was instructed to sign
Speaker 1: so that the facility could pass its program review. When
Speaker 1: I was placed in the SHU, I was assigned to
Speaker 1: the 4 p.m. to midnight shift most of the time.
Speaker 1: Due to understaffing issues, my colleagues and I were required
Speaker 1: to work overtime on a regular basis. To avoid being
Speaker 1: mandated a work, a second consecutive shift at midnight, I
Speaker 1: would often volunteer to work the 8 a.m. to 4 p.m.
Speaker 1: shift and then work my regular shift from 4 to midnight.
Speaker 1: When Mr. Epstein was lodged at the MCC on or
Speaker 1: about July 6, 2019, I did not know who he
Speaker 1: was or anything about his past. I had limited interactions
Speaker 1: with Mr. Epstein. because he spent most of each day
Speaker 1: downstairs in the attorney conference room. I wasn't aware of
Speaker 1: the public's interest in Mr. Epstein until shortly after the
Speaker 1: July 23, 2019 incident when he was placed on suicide watch.
Speaker 1: I wasn't working the shift when the July 23 incident occurred.
Speaker 1: On August 9, 2019, I was scheduled to work my
Speaker 1: 4 p.m. to midnight shift. Because I had a personal
Speaker 1: obligation that day, I could not work the 8 a.m.
Speaker 1: to 4 p.m. shift. As a result, I was mandated
Speaker 1: to work the August 10, 2019 midnight to 8 a.m. shift.
Speaker 1: It was also my first time that I worked in
Speaker 1: the SHU with Officer Michael Thomas. It was my understanding
Speaker 1: that Officer Thomas was working the midnight shift in addition
Speaker 1: to working his assigned 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. shift.
Speaker 1: On August 9 and 10, 2019, I acknowledged with full
Speaker 1: candor that I did not execute the counts and the
Speaker 1: rounds properly. I admit that there were tasks that I
Speaker 1: failed to complete which resulted in the improper execution and
Speaker 1: inaccurate documentation of the counts and the rounds. The failure
Speaker 1: to execute my duties and my responsibilities properly and the
Speaker 1: submission of inaccurate documentation were not related to Mr. Epstein
Speaker 1: or his death in any way. The inaccurate documentation were
Speaker 1: executed at the beginning of each shift and were not
Speaker 1: done to cover up my conduct or the conduct of
Speaker 1: my colleague. At the time, I considered what I was
Speaker 1: doing as the MCC way. I use the term MCC
Speaker 1: way because it's a phrase I heard countless times from
Speaker 1: multiple colleagues while learning on the job prior to being
Speaker 1: assigned to the SHU. There's only one problem with this
Speaker 1: opening statement. It doesn't match up with what we've heard
Speaker 1: from the other interviews with the OIG. In other words,
Speaker 1: I was trained in a way that suggested that the
Speaker 1: policy guidance and operation protocols set forth in writing by
Speaker 1: the Federal Bureau of Prisons may be applied differently at MCC.
Speaker 1: My conduct regarding documentation and execution of the counts and
Speaker 1: rounds was based on what I observed experienced officers doing.
Speaker 1: Because I believed that video surveillance cameras inside MCC were
Speaker 1: working properly, I was not attempting to get away with
Speaker 1: something that I believed to be a crime. It was
Speaker 1: a surprise to me to learn months later that the
Speaker 1: video surveillance system was not working properly. Again, my failure
Speaker 1: to complete those duties were not because of Mr. Epstein.
Speaker 1: My inadequate job performance was due to my inexperience, inadequate training,
Speaker 1: and being overworked. Due to understaffing issues, the amount of
Speaker 1: overtime I was required to do resulted in me earning
Speaker 1: my full base salary and approximately six months time on
Speaker 1: the job. As a result, my inadequate performance on the
Speaker 1: shoe on August 9th and 10th of 2019 was based
Speaker 1: on the dysfunctional culture at MCC, which was well documented
Speaker 1: in multiple reports and issued by the Department of Justice
Speaker 1: Office of the Inspector General. The same report that didn't
Speaker 1: say that he tried to commit suicide three times? That report?
Speaker 1: Got it. My responsibility was to conduct counts and rounds,
Speaker 1: was improperly executed because of severe understaffing, a lack of
Speaker 1: adequate training, inadequate communication between management and frontline correctional officers,
Speaker 1: and other systemic failures. The systemic failures at the MCC
Speaker 1: were documented by the Office of of Inspector General, and
Speaker 1: multiple journalists long before the death of Mr. Epstein. The
Speaker 1: systemic failures were communicated to the Federal Bureau of Prisons
Speaker 1: leadership by the Correctional Officers Union leadership long before Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein's death. The only connection I have to the death
Speaker 1: of Mr. Epstein is that I happened to be mandated
Speaker 1: for overtime when he died. No, you were responsible for
Speaker 1: making sure that that didn't happen. And you see what
Speaker 1: they're doing here, right? Everybody's coming in with the same story.
Speaker 1: Let's blame the system so nobody is held responsible. And
Speaker 1: then we can all just get away with it. My
Speaker 1: life has drastically changed since August 10th, 2019. Since that day,
Speaker 1: my life has been extremely difficult. This situation has been
Speaker 1: one of the hardest things I've experienced in my life. Well,
Speaker 1: if you didn't fall asleep. For over two years, my
Speaker 1: freedom was in jeopardy. After the case against me was
Speaker 1: dismissed in 2021... With the unwavering support of my family, friends, co-workers,
Speaker 1: my attorney, Jason Foy, and God, I thought that I
Speaker 1: would be able to privately rebuild my life and my career. Instead,
Speaker 1: I have been consistently the subject of threats of my life,
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories, and outrageous rumors impacting my mental and physical health.
Speaker 1: I have received threats from strangers. I have witnessed strangers
Speaker 1: pontificate about whether I'm a murderer or that I'll end
Speaker 1: up dead. I am consistently harassed at my residence, place
Speaker 1: of employment, in emails, and on the phone. Every few weeks,
Speaker 1: there's a new article based on a new theory with
Speaker 1: little to no factual basis. When Congress passed the Epstein
Speaker 1: Files Transparency Act, my personal identification information was released to
Speaker 1: the public without proper redaction of my date of birth
Speaker 1: and other personal information. Sorry, you're a government official. You
Speaker 1: were being paid by the American taxpayer. How can we
Speaker 1: hold anyone accountable if your name is redacted? And now,
Speaker 1: I've been asked to come before you to speak for
Speaker 1: the first time publicly and answer your questions related to
Speaker 1: the investigation and death of Mr. Epstein. My goal today
Speaker 1: is to be honestly, my goal today is to honestly
Speaker 1: answer the committee's questions to the best of my recollection
Speaker 1: and finally put this behind me permanently. I would like
Speaker 1: to ask the world to allow me to heal and
Speaker 1: move on with my life. I'm not a criminal. I
Speaker 1: didn't conspire to cause Mr. Epstein's death. It's my desire
Speaker 1: to be left alone after all of today's interview. Thank you.
Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
Speaker 1: And in the next episode, we're going to pick up
Speaker 1: where we left off. All the information that goes with
Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone?
Speaker 1: And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to dive right back in to
Speaker 1: the Tova Noel transcript from her meeting with Congress. Question.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I see we have another member of Congress.
Speaker 1: Would he please identify himself for the record? Mr. Submarinian, Representative,
Speaker 1: Suhas Submarinium, Virginia's 10th District. Question, thank you. All right,
Speaker 1: my time reads 10.18, and the majority's time will begin now. Question, Ms. Noel,
Speaker 1: thank you again for appearing here voluntarily today. I'd like
Speaker 1: to start this interview by discussing more about your background.
Speaker 1: I know you mentioned it in your opening statement, but
Speaker 1: where are you from originally? Answer, Antigua. Question, Antigua, and
Speaker 1: when did you first move? to New York. Answer, I
Speaker 1: first moved to New York about, I first moved to
Speaker 1: New York, I want to say about 2011. Question, what
Speaker 1: made you decide to move there? Answer, when I came
Speaker 1: to this country, I first lived in Pennsylvania. And after
Speaker 1: I graduated high school, I moved to New York because
Speaker 1: I like New York better than Pennsylvania. Question, I know
Speaker 1: you just did so, but can you briefly again, for
Speaker 1: the record, walk us through your professional career? Answer, I
Speaker 1: graduated high school at 16, went on to the military.
Speaker 1: When I turned 19, I gained an associate's degree in
Speaker 1: criminal justice. I went on to gaining a bachelor's degree,
Speaker 1: also in criminal justice, and a minor in law. I
Speaker 1: completed six years in military, one tour in Kuwait. I
Speaker 1: worked for the United States Postal Service, and then, later on,
Speaker 1: went on to work for the Federal Bureau of Prisons,
Speaker 1: along with other employment. Question, when did you begin working
Speaker 1: at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York? Answer, June 2018. Question,
Speaker 1: you mentioned your job right before that was working for
Speaker 1: the U.S. Postal Service. Answer, correct. Question, okay, what years
Speaker 1: did you work at MCC? Answer, 2018, June 2018 to
Speaker 1: August 10th, 2019. Question, how was it that you ended
Speaker 1: up working at MCC? Answer, while working at the United
Speaker 1: States Postal Service, I received a call from the MCC
Speaker 1: to gain employment there and I accepted. Question, so someone
Speaker 1: reached out to you Answer, correct. Question, okay, and why
Speaker 1: did you make that decision to start working there? Answer,
Speaker 1: because I had the background in criminal justice and I
Speaker 1: wanted to pursue my degree field. Question, what was your
Speaker 1: first role or position at MCC? Answer, correctional officer. Question,
Speaker 1: were you ever assigned to more than one role while
Speaker 1: at MCC? Answer, no ma'am. Question, can you describe what
Speaker 1: your responsibilities were in that role? Answer, no. My role
Speaker 1: as a correctional officer was to oversee inmates, to make
Speaker 1: sure that they're performing their daily tasks and the functions,
Speaker 1: and to make sure that they're accounted for. Question, and
Speaker 1: at what point were you assigned to the special housing unit? Answer,
Speaker 1: I was assigned to the special housing unit in June
Speaker 1: of 2019. Question, and for the purposes of the record,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be referring... to the special housing unit
Speaker 1: as the SHU, spelled S-H-U. Who first told you that
Speaker 1: you were going to be assigned to the SHU? Answer,
Speaker 1: I don't recall exactly who told me that I was
Speaker 1: going to be assigned to the SHU. Question, okay, were
Speaker 1: you ever told that why you were being moved to
Speaker 1: the SHU? Answer, so based on seniority. You get to
Speaker 1: bid for your post. And the only post that was
Speaker 1: left was the shoe. Question, how did you feel about
Speaker 1: being moved to the shoe at the time? Answer, I
Speaker 1: didn't want to go to the shoe because I wasn't
Speaker 1: familiar with working the shoe. When I shadowed, I shadowed
Speaker 1: on regular housing units, not the shoe. Question, okay. Miss
Speaker 1: Fiera Bend, we have a new staff member that's entered
Speaker 1: the room. Will he please identify himself? Robert Edmondson, Staff Director,
Speaker 1: Ranking Member, Garcia. Question. Was working in the SHU considered
Speaker 1: a promotion to the rest of the staff at MCC? Answer. No. Question.
Speaker 1: Why not? Answer. Because it was a housing unit. Question. Okay.
Speaker 1: So there was a difference between a correctional officer working
Speaker 1: the SHU or any other area at the MCC? Answer. Correct. Question. Okay.
Speaker 1: What was your salary while working in the SHU? Answer.
Speaker 1: I don't recall exactly. Question. Okay. You worked at MCC
Speaker 1: for over a year? Answer. Yes. Question. No. Was that
Speaker 1: your only job during that entire time, or did you
Speaker 1: have any additional sources of income outside of your salary? Question,
Speaker 1: additional sources of income was VA benefits. Question, were you
Speaker 1: receiving those the entire time? Answer, yes. Mr. Emmer, question,
Speaker 1: in your opening you referenced, was it a workplace injury?
Speaker 1: When did that occur? Answer, March. Question, March of 2018. Answer, no,
Speaker 1: March of 2019. Question, excuse me, thank you. And then
Speaker 1: when did you return? Back to work. Answer, June of 2019. Question,
Speaker 1: thank you. Miss Fireabend? Question, so we're going to discuss Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein's death and that night more specifically in a little bit,
Speaker 1: but I'd like to first get a better sense of
Speaker 1: the structure and the staffing roles at MCC. Answer, okay. Question,
Speaker 1: so you never mentioned that you were first assigned in
Speaker 1: June 2019 to the SHU. Can you describe how the
Speaker 1: SHU specifically differs from other units at MCC? Answer, so
Speaker 1: for a regular housing unit, the inmates are let out
Speaker 1: and they can move around, whereas in the SHU, you're
Speaker 1: locked in for 23 hours and you're only out for
Speaker 1: one hour, and it's a more secure area. The only
Speaker 1: inmates that out would be like the orderlies. Question, what
Speaker 1: are those? Answer, the orderlies are inmates that are considered
Speaker 1: to have privileges. They're allowed to, like, come out, to clean,
Speaker 1: or the law library. Question, okay. I know you touched
Speaker 1: on this in your opening statement, but was there any
Speaker 1: special training that you had to undergo in order to
Speaker 1: be assigned to the SHU? Answer, yeah. Question, and did
Speaker 1: you complete the special training that was required? Answer, no. Question,
Speaker 1: why not? Answer, because I was out with an injury. Question,
Speaker 1: you mentioned, going back one question, that there were orderlies
Speaker 1: in the SHU. Was Mr. Epstein considered an orderly? Answer, no. Question,
Speaker 1: why not? Answer, I don't make the decision on who
Speaker 1: becomes an orderly. I don't know. Question, okay, do you
Speaker 1: know how it was decided? Answer, of who becomes an orderly? No,
Speaker 1: I don't. Question, okay, back to the special training. Were
Speaker 1: you ever directed by supervisors to say that you have
Speaker 1: completed the training when you had not? Can you provide
Speaker 1: more details about what happened there? Answer, when I came
Speaker 1: back from the injury, I was told to report to
Speaker 1: the supervisor. When I went to her, she asked me
Speaker 1: to sign the training log to say that I completed
Speaker 1: the SHU training because that was my assigned post at
Speaker 1: the time. So I informed her that I did not
Speaker 1: complete the training. She told me not to worry about it,
Speaker 1: just to sign it because they need to pass program review. Question,
Speaker 1: do you know if there were other correctional officers that
Speaker 1: she told the same thing to? Answer, I don't know. Mr. Foy,
Speaker 1: may I have a word real quick? They go off record.
Speaker 1: They go back on. Noelle, oh. And when she asked
Speaker 1: me to sign, she also asked me not to date it. Question,
Speaker 1: why was that? Answer, I guess because the date where
Speaker 1: I was signing would have, would have conflicted with the
Speaker 1: time that the training actually took place. Question, and who
Speaker 1: was the supervisor? What was the supervisor's name? Ms. Noel,
Speaker 1: Kimberly Shivers. Question, do you have any idea whether that
Speaker 1: was an ordinary practice by supervisors for the shoe? Answer,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, understanding that you did not complete
Speaker 1: the training. Did you know what the training entailed? Answer, no. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: Did you ever hear anybody talk about the training? Answer, no. Question,
Speaker 1: when you were in the SHU, what was the breakdown
Speaker 1: of your team? Answer, like how many people? Question, sure.
Speaker 1: How many total people on staff in the SHU? Answer,
Speaker 1: so the SHU had myself and two other correctional officers
Speaker 1: on the 4 p.m. to midnight shift. On the 12 p.m.
Speaker 1: to 8 a.m. shift, it was two people. Question, did
Speaker 1: you have people working over you? Answer, could you clarify? Answer, sure.
Speaker 1: When you were on shift, did you have any supervisors
Speaker 1: that were also working at that time? Answer, yes. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: How many of those were there? Answer, the supervisor would
Speaker 1: be considered the lieutenants. So there's about, I want to say,
Speaker 1: four or five lieutenants, all not on at the same time,
Speaker 1: but rotating their shifts. Question, okay. So when you were
Speaker 1: on shift from 4 p.m. to midnight shift, it would
Speaker 1: be one, One other correctional officer and one to four lieutenants? Answers, no.
Speaker 1: So on shift four to midnight, it would be me
Speaker 1: and two correctional officers in the shoe. In the building,
Speaker 1: it would be the lieutenants downstairs. In the lieutenant's office,
Speaker 1: about two or three maybe on a shift. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: Going back to the training, were you ever told to
Speaker 1: complete the training after you started working in the shoe?
Speaker 1: Answer for shoe training, no. Question, okay. So you signed
Speaker 1: and then began working? Answer, correct. Question, okay, thank you.
Speaker 1: Did you know if the number of the people on
Speaker 1: staff in the shoe was typical? Or were you guys understaffed? Answer,
Speaker 1: we were understaffed. Question, how understaffed would you say? Answer,
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be four people, not three, but it
Speaker 1: was three. Question, okay. What kind of problems or issues
Speaker 1: did that cause, the understaffing? Answer, a lot of mandated overtime. Question,
Speaker 1: so the overtime hours were not voluntary? Answer, no. Question, okay. Answer,
Speaker 1: can I clarify that? Question, sure. Answer, the overtime is
Speaker 1: not voluntary, it's mandated, but we volunteer because when you volunteer,
Speaker 1: you get to pick your post when they mandate you.
Speaker 1: They put you where they want you to go. So
Speaker 1: because we know we're going to get mandated, we volunteer
Speaker 1: on the front end, like I explained in my opening statement,
Speaker 1: versus getting hit with the mandation on the back end
Speaker 1: to where they need you to go. Question, who is
Speaker 1: instituting the mandatory overtime hours? Answer, on that day, Lieutenant Kanata. Question,
Speaker 1: and how often would you or other correctional officers in
Speaker 1: the SHU have to work overtime? Answer, every day. Question,
Speaker 1: how many shifts would you work a week? Answer, five
Speaker 1: days of double shifts. But on your last day, you
Speaker 1: can't be mandated. So it would be four. Question, was
Speaker 1: every shift that you worked, did that include an overtime shift? Answer, yes. Question,
Speaker 1: so eight hours plus gets interrupted by TOVA. Answer, another eight. Question,
Speaker 1: so 16-hour total shifts. Answer, correct. Question, what were your
Speaker 1: shifts like when you were working in the SHU? Answer,
Speaker 1: my shift was 4 p.m. to midnight and I had
Speaker 1: one day where it was 2 to 10. Question, how
Speaker 1: would you describe working a shift in the SHU? Answer,
Speaker 1: when you come in for your shift at 4 o'clock,
Speaker 1: counts are being done and immediately after that you're getting
Speaker 1: ready to feed inmates. And after that, I kind of
Speaker 1: always wait on the directive from the senior officer that
Speaker 1: I'm working with Because I don't really know how to
Speaker 1: work the shoe. So whatever they ask me to do
Speaker 1: or tell me to do, I kind of lean on
Speaker 1: the senior person. Question, was Michael Thomas, was he a
Speaker 1: senior officer? Answer, yes. Question, okay. On a typical shift,
Speaker 1: you said that you would feed the inmates. Were there
Speaker 1: any other responsibilities that you had on every shift? Answer,
Speaker 1: giving out toiletries, for example, toilet paper, rounds. Question, were
Speaker 1: those responsibilities expected of you on every shift or do
Speaker 1: they differ? Answer, in the shoe, yes. Question. Okay. Did
Speaker 1: they differ by the time of day or the hour
Speaker 1: or the shifts that you're working? Answer. No. Question. Would
Speaker 1: you always complete all your duties? Answer. To the best
Speaker 1: of my recollection, not all the time. Question. Okay. Why not? Answer.
Speaker 1: Because sometimes we don't have enough people. So depending on
Speaker 1: the task, it probably can't get done because there's not
Speaker 1: enough people to get it done. Or sometimes it is
Speaker 1: enough people, but because they're tired, it doesn't get done correctly. Emmer.
Speaker 1: Did you prioritize which tasks were most important when you
Speaker 1: decided or when some certain tasks weren't completed? Noelle, no.
Speaker 1: I just kind of went with the flow of whoever
Speaker 1: I was working with at the time. All right, we're
Speaker 1: going to wrap up right here. And in the next episode,
Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off. All
Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to
Speaker 1: another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're
Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off With a
Speaker 1: Tova Noel transcript from her meeting with Congress. Question. You
Speaker 1: mentioned that you worked with a senior officer and then
Speaker 1: there were also people above you while you were on
Speaker 1: your shift. Did you have a good relationship with those
Speaker 1: people that you work with? Answer yes. Question. Have you
Speaker 1: ever had any issues with any of your colleagues? Answer no. Well,
Speaker 1: that's not what the captain told us. Remember in the
Speaker 1: OIG interview that we did with the captain, what he
Speaker 1: said about Tova Noel? That's interesting. Question, would anyone else
Speaker 1: ever instruct you on how to do your role while
Speaker 1: in the shoe? Answer no. Question, what kind of authority
Speaker 1: did you have to make a decision? Answer. I would
Speaker 1: say I didn't have authority to make decisions. I was
Speaker 1: just a correctional officer. Question. Okay. I believe we have
Speaker 1: another member that's entered. Would you please introduce yourself for
Speaker 1: the record? Good morning. I'm Melanie Stansberry. I represent New
Speaker 1: Mexico's 1st Congressional District. Thank you. Question. While you were
Speaker 1: in the SHU, what cell blocks or areas were you
Speaker 1: responsible for overseeing? Answer. All of them. Question. Okay. How
Speaker 1: many cell blocks total were in the SHU? Answer. Six. Question,
Speaker 1: who can access the shoe? Answer, from the outside. Question, uh-huh. Answer,
Speaker 1: anyone can access the shoe from the outside if control
Speaker 1: pops the door and lets you in. Answer, or question,
Speaker 1: by everyone do you mean MCC staff? Answer, correct. Question, okay,
Speaker 1: so it's not closed off to shoe employees? Answer, correct. Question,
Speaker 1: could you walk us through the procedures required for conducting
Speaker 1: cell checks as an officer in the shoe? Answer, a
Speaker 1: cell check. Question like rounds, doing your rounds. Answer, okay,
Speaker 1: so during the rounds, there is an officer that opens
Speaker 1: the grill, which is the door of the tier. And
Speaker 1: then the other officer goes down and checks on every
Speaker 1: single person and come around, check on every single person
Speaker 1: and exit. Question when you say check on every person. Answer,
Speaker 1: seeing an alive breathing body. Question, would that require you
Speaker 1: to enter the cell? Answer, no. Question, okay. Would you
Speaker 1: look through a window? Answer, a window. Question, would you
Speaker 1: talk to them? Answer, sometimes. Question, okay. Can you describe
Speaker 1: how you would access the shoe when you would start
Speaker 1: your shift? Answer, when I get to the door, control
Speaker 1: has to let me in the first door. Then, when
Speaker 1: you come through the door, there's a second door, and
Speaker 1: the officer on the inside has to let you in
Speaker 1: the second door. Question, so you would say that's two
Speaker 1: layers of security to be able to get in. Would
Speaker 1: you have to scan in? Did you have a badge
Speaker 1: or anything like that? Answer, no. Question, I understand MCC
Speaker 1: is a high-rise building. Answer, correct. Question, would you go
Speaker 1: up an elevator to get to the shoe? Answer, correct. Question, okay,
Speaker 1: what floor was the shoe on? Answer, the ninth floor. Question,
Speaker 1: out of how many? Answer, 10. Question, do you think
Speaker 1: there was any reason why it was as high up
Speaker 1: as it was? Answer, I don't know. Question, okay. Could
Speaker 1: you explain to us the layout of the shoe block
Speaker 1: or the shoe unit at the MCC? Answer, so when
Speaker 1: you enter the shoe and you walk towards the center,
Speaker 1: the common area, there's a desk with computers. Before the desk,
Speaker 1: there are two tiers up and down. Then to the,
Speaker 1: if you're facing the desk left in the middle, there's
Speaker 1: two more tiers up and down. And then off to
Speaker 1: the far left, there's the last two tiers up and down.
Speaker 1: So it's really like a circle. It's like the desk
Speaker 1: and then two tiers, two tiers, two tiers. And then
Speaker 1: going up the last set of tiers, you could go
Speaker 1: up the 10 south wing. Question, so does that make
Speaker 1: it two or three tiers total? Answer, well, 10 south
Speaker 1: is technically not connected. So in SHU, it's still six.
Speaker 1: But you can access the door there that goes to
Speaker 1: 10 south, which is another unit. Question, okay, that's not
Speaker 1: included in the SHU. Answer, correct. Question, how many inmates
Speaker 1: are typically housed in the SHU? Answer, shoe, it varies.
Speaker 1: Because the shoe doesn't have to be full because people
Speaker 1: are placed in the shoe for different reasons. So it
Speaker 1: could be any number. Question, why would inmates go to
Speaker 1: the shoe? Answer, some inmates go to the shoe. Answer,
Speaker 1: some inmates go to the shoe for disciplinary segregation. Some
Speaker 1: inmates go because they have to be separated. Some go
Speaker 1: because they're high profile. Question, would they ever go for
Speaker 1: mental health reasons? Answer, I'm not sure. Question, how long
Speaker 1: did inmates typically stay in the shoe? Answer, I don't know. Question.
Speaker 1: You mentioned some inmates would go to the SHU for
Speaker 1: disciplinary reasons. Some would go for the fact that they
Speaker 1: were high profile. Why was Mr. Epstein sent to the SHU? Answer. Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein was in the SHU because he was a high
Speaker 1: profile inmate. Question. And not because of his mental health
Speaker 1: issues at the time. Answer. Correct. Question. Okay. Is there
Speaker 1: any reason why SHU inmates would be assigned to a
Speaker 1: cell in the upper tier versus lower tier? Answer. No. Question. No.
Speaker 1: So like a high-profile inmate, wouldn't go to an upper
Speaker 1: tier versus a lower tier? Answer, no. Question, okay. Where
Speaker 1: was Mr. Epstein's cell located within the shoe? Answer, as
Speaker 1: soon as you enter the shoe, the first two tiers,
Speaker 1: he was on the top tier, the first door to
Speaker 1: your right. Question, do you know the name of the
Speaker 1: staircase that he would have been next to? Answer, I
Speaker 1: can't remember. She gets cut off. Does L tier? He
Speaker 1: gets cut off now by her. I was going to say,
Speaker 1: I think it's L. Where was Mr. Epstein's cell in
Speaker 1: relation to your station? Answer, so the cell block, when
Speaker 1: you go up the stairs, the desk is like right
Speaker 1: off to the left. As far as feet go, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Question, was your station on the same level
Speaker 1: as Mr. Epstein's cell? No, he would have been up
Speaker 1: the stairs. And the desk would have been on the ground.
Speaker 1: Answer is Noel. Question, would you estimate about how long
Speaker 1: it would take for you to walk to a cell? Answer, oh,
Speaker 1: to walk, like two minutes. Question, I know you mentioned
Speaker 1: them previously. but who is Officer Michael Thomas? Answer, Officer
Speaker 1: Michael Thomas is the materials handler officer that worked with
Speaker 1: me on August 10th, 2019, from midnight to eight in
Speaker 1: the morning. Question, did he work the 4 p.m. to
Speaker 1: midnight shift on August 9th? Answer, no. Question, who worked
Speaker 1: that shift with you? Answer, Davis and Bonhami. Question, how
Speaker 1: long had you and Officer Thomas worked together in the SHU? Answer,
Speaker 1: that was my first time working with Officer Thomas. Question,
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like there was that many correctional officers
Speaker 1: working in the SHU. Was it just happenstance, happenchance, that
Speaker 1: you work with them? Answer, yeah. Question, okay. Had you
Speaker 1: guys worked together before in any other MCC unit? Answer, no,
Speaker 1: we never worked any units before. Question, you mentioned he
Speaker 1: was a senior correctional officer. Answer, yeah. Question, would that
Speaker 1: make him technically your supervisor? Answer, so he wouldn't be
Speaker 1: my supervisor. He was a correctional officer before, and then
Speaker 1: he got promoted to materials handler, but not making him
Speaker 1: my supervisor. Question, so you both had authority to make
Speaker 1: your decisions while on shift? Answer, yes. Question, did you
Speaker 1: consider him? I know you say you only work with
Speaker 1: him one shift with him, but in that time, did
Speaker 1: you consider him to be a good employee? Answer, no. Question,
Speaker 1: why not? Answer, because he was tired. Question, from working
Speaker 1: long shifts? Answer, correct. Question, overtime shifts? Answer, overtime shifts. Question,
Speaker 1: mandated overtime shifts? Answer, yes. Question, did you and Mr.
Speaker 1: Thomas have a good working relationship? Answer, that was actually
Speaker 1: my first time working with him, so I would say
Speaker 1: we didn't have any relationship. Question, okay. Did y'all speak
Speaker 1: during your shift? Answer, yes. Question, do you remember what
Speaker 1: you discussed? Answer, I went to him to conduct the count,
Speaker 1: and he expressed to me that he was tired. Question,
Speaker 1: so because he was tired, he wouldn't do the count? Answer, correct. Question,
Speaker 1: so what was your response to that? Answer, okay. Question,
Speaker 1: so did you in fact do the count by yourself? Answer,
Speaker 1: at 10 p.m. Question, okay. Answer, improperly. Noel, just to clarify,
Speaker 1: Thomas goes on at 12. That count that I did
Speaker 1: at 10 wouldn't have been when he was there. When
Speaker 1: he was there, I didn't do any. Question, when did
Speaker 1: you leave the MCC? Tova Noel, August 10th. Mr. Grant
Speaker 1: jumps in. You mentioned that you did 10 p.m. count improperly.
Speaker 1: What about that made it improper? Noelle, because I did
Speaker 1: it by myself. An account is supposed to be conducted
Speaker 1: with two people. Mr. Grant, thank you. Noelle, you're welcome.
Speaker 1: Questions again now by Ms. Fireabend. Question, so you left
Speaker 1: August 10th, 2019. Why did you leave? Answer, that was
Speaker 1: my morning. My shift was over at 8 a.m. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: Maybe I should clarify. Leave MCC, meaning when did you
Speaker 1: stop working for Metropolitan? Answer, as in, so the last
Speaker 1: day I was in the building was August 10th. When
Speaker 1: they terminated me? I don't remember the date. Mr. Foy,
Speaker 1: but that was... It was years later, though. No, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: years later. Question, were you terminated from MCC as a
Speaker 1: result of what happened the morning of August 10th, 2019? Answer, correct. Question.
Speaker 1: Was there an internal review that was conducted by MCC
Speaker 1: following the incident of Jeffrey Epstein's death? Answer. Yes. Question.
Speaker 1: Was there one conducted by the Federal Bureau of Prisons? Answer. Yes. Question.
Speaker 1: Were you interviewed as part of those reviews? Answer. Yes. Question.
Speaker 1: What were the findings of those? What were you asked
Speaker 1: about in those reviews? Do you recall? Answer. I was
Speaker 1: asked about the culture of MCC, the mandations, the counts,
Speaker 1: the rounds. Question. And what did you tell either MCC
Speaker 1: or BOP about the culture and everything you just mentioned? Answer,
Speaker 1: I spoke about how often we were mandated to work.
Speaker 1: As a result of that, the job was not performed
Speaker 1: accurately because people were tired. And I attempted to do
Speaker 1: the count and the rounds, but it has to be
Speaker 1: conducted with two people. So if the other person is tired,
Speaker 1: then it cannot be carried out accurately. I also took
Speaker 1: accountability for performing my job and duties inaccurately. Question, thank you. Answer,
Speaker 1: you're welcome. Question. why was Mr. Epstein moved to the shoe? Answer,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, when did you first learn that
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein was being moved to the shoe? Answer, when
Speaker 1: Epstein came in, he went straight to the shoe. So
Speaker 1: moved like cell block or moved like into the shoe. Question,
Speaker 1: into the shoe. Answer, he came into the shoe. Question, okay,
Speaker 1: do you remember the date of that? Answer, he came
Speaker 1: in July of 2019. Question, were there any discussions amongst
Speaker 1: the MCC staff, or specifically the shoe staff, that Jeffrey
Speaker 1: Epstein was going to be incarcerated at MCC? Answer, no. Question,
Speaker 1: was he known to you or to others, to the
Speaker 1: best of your knowledge, before he was incarcerated? Answer, so
Speaker 1: for others, I don't know. For me, no. Question, so
Speaker 1: for the record, did you know who Mr. Epstein was
Speaker 1: at the time? Answer, no. Question, had you ever personally
Speaker 1: spoken to Mr. Epstein prior to him being moved to
Speaker 1: the shoe? Answer, moved? He came to the shoe in July,
Speaker 1: and I worked in the shoe from June. So to me,
Speaker 1: he wasn't moved. He was always in the shoe. Question, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll rephrase it. So did you ever speak with Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein prior to him being in jail? Answer, no. So Mr. Epstein,
Speaker 1: as we all know now, was a high-profile figure. That's
Speaker 1: why he was moved into the shoe. And his case
Speaker 1: was pretty widely known and reported on before he was
Speaker 1: incarcerated at MCC. Were any aspects of his case or
Speaker 1: any of his crimes discussed amongst MCC staff? Answer, no,
Speaker 1: not to me. Question, no one to your knowledge spoke
Speaker 1: about Mr. Epstein? Answer, to me, no. Question, okay. How
Speaker 1: long was... Mr. Epstein and MCC before his death on
Speaker 1: August 10th, 2019. Answer. He came in in July to
Speaker 1: August 10th. Question. And you were assigned to work the
Speaker 1: shoe for the entire time that Mr. Epstein was held there.
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer. Correct. Question. Roughly how many shifts
Speaker 1: did you work during the time Mr. Epstein was in
Speaker 1: the shoe? Answer. I don't know. To give you an
Speaker 1: actual number, but from June to August 10th. Question. June
Speaker 1: is when you started working in the shoe. Answer. Correct. Question, okay,
Speaker 1: but Mr. Epstein didn't get there until July. And you
Speaker 1: said earlier that you worked four or five times a week? Answer, uh-huh. Question,
Speaker 1: shifts a week? Answer, correct. Question, 16-hour shifts? Answer, 16. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: While you were on shift, were you directly responsible for Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein's cell? Answer, no. Question, how so? Answer, I was
Speaker 1: responsible for all the inmates in the shoe, not Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein's cell. Question, sure, but Mr. Epstein's cell was included...
Speaker 1: In all of the cells that you were responsible for? Answer, yeah. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: How often were you required to check his cell when
Speaker 1: you were on duty? Answer, the standard required time, conducting
Speaker 1: irregular 30-minute rounds and counts. Question, so could you kind
Speaker 1: of help me explain this a little bit? So you
Speaker 1: did rounds that were every half hour? Answer, yes. Question,
Speaker 1: but then the counts were different than the rounds? Answer, yes. Question,
Speaker 1: how so? Answer, the counts were conducted, so like I
Speaker 1: started for... There's four, there's a 10, midnight, 3 a.m.,
Speaker 1: and 5 a.m. And you're responsible for each of those counts? Answer, yes.
Speaker 1: Let me just clarify. So on the four, there's three
Speaker 1: of us working, so there's two people that have to count.
Speaker 1: So I don't necessarily have to count. It just has
Speaker 1: to be two people. Question, and this was the same requirement,
Speaker 1: the counts in the rounds, for all inmates that were
Speaker 1: housed in the SHU? Answer, SHU, correct. Question, okay, what's
Speaker 1: the difference between a count and a round in terms
Speaker 1: of what you were actually doing or looking for or
Speaker 1: your responsibilities at the time? Question, because a count, you're
Speaker 1: counting and also making sure that you're seeing a live
Speaker 1: breathing body, but a round is just seeing a live
Speaker 1: breathing body. You're not necessarily counting how many people are
Speaker 1: in there. Question, so the rounds were a bit more relaxed,
Speaker 1: so to speak? Answer, correct. Question, so what were the
Speaker 1: goals or purposes of a round and a count? I
Speaker 1: know you just mentioned it, but answer around would be
Speaker 1: to make sure that everyone's okay. Account would be to
Speaker 1: account that the amount of people that are housed in there. Question. Okay.
Speaker 1: They go off the record. Then they come back on.
Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
Speaker 1: And in the next episode, we're going to pick up
Speaker 1: where we left off. All the information that goes with
Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box.