WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:06.400 It's nice with Dan ray On Delileos. 2 00:00:05.799 --> 00:00:12.000 D all right. A subject that we talk about a 3 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:15.320 little bit, but most of us talk about it from 4 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:19.000 not from an inside perspective, an inside point of view. 5 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:21.800 A few weeks ago I had as a guest during 6 00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:24.800 the eight o'clock hour, my guests who were about to 7 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:29.600 reintroduce to reintroduce you to Lewis Ferrante. He's a former 8 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:33.640 member of the Gambino crime family. Spent several years in 9 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:37.439 stir as we say, because he decided that he would 10 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:42.200 not incriminate fellow Gambino family members. Probably a good decision, 11 00:00:42.439 --> 00:00:46.759 you know, a life decision. I would say, uh, Lewis 12 00:00:46.759 --> 00:00:53.399 to Ferranti is with us, lou Ferrente. By the way, Lewis, Uh, 13 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:55.280 you're a stand up guy. How are you tonight? 14 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:59.320 I'm good? Thank you, Dan. I appreciate introduction I did. 15 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:00.799 That's right. 16 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:05.680 You were a stand up guy. You know you're you're 17 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:09.000 in the slammer. What years were you in? What years 18 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:09.519 were you in? 19 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:12.519 I got I got locked up. I was young. I 20 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:15.000 was I did nothing but fine. From when I was 21 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:18.000 thirteen by the time I was twenty five, I was 22 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:20.239 facing the rest of my life in prison. I had 23 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:23.680 three cases. I had an FBI case, a secret service case, 24 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:29.599 and a state organized crime cask boss case and accumulation. 25 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:32.239 It's you know, facing probably one hundred and sixty years 26 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:36.920 with everything. So yeah, I said, I'm not squealing, I'm 27 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:40.359 not ratting, it's not happening. And the pressure just continued, 28 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:41.959 and I was, O. 29 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:43.879 Were you How old were you when you by the way, 30 00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:47.000 you know, in terms of baseball, you'd call that someone 31 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:50.400 like yourself a five tool player, So you were five 32 00:01:50.439 --> 00:01:53.359 tool games gigs? Are you? You had a lot of 33 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:54.319 skill sets here? 34 00:01:54.799 --> 00:02:00.480 I mean, yeah, I did my ex Yeah. True. My 35 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:04.799 expertise was at the time heis and hijackings. That's what 36 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:07.359 I did. And I had a really really good crew 37 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:09.960 and that's what we were known for, and you know 38 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:14.439 we did it. We we operated within the Gambino family umbrella. 39 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:18.000 But I worked with any family. I worked with everybody, Lukesey, 40 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:22.319 Banano Colombo. If if somebody had a tip, I just 41 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:24.240 had to put it on record with my own family. 42 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:26.000 But anybody came to me. 43 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:30.479 So what were what sort of trucks were you looking 44 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:33.439 to hit? I mean you when you say you had it, kip, 45 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:36.759 you were you were going at some fruit truck, I assume, 46 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:38.159 But what were you looking for? Now? 47 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:41.199 You're looking for money, any anything that's big money it 48 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:44.240 could be. I mean I had everything from uh Brazil's 49 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:47.599 yeah you know, I mean not even like Victoria's secrets, 50 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:49.680 which we thought the truck was carrying. We ended up 51 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.199 with these big cheap cone cup brazils when we hit 52 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:55.479 the truck, you know, So there was things. Sometimes, you know, 53 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:57.520 you got a truck coming out of the airport, you 54 00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:00.240 get the wrong one. But you look for something, you know, 55 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:03.879 big as far as merchandise is concerned. Something you know, 56 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:07.199 you figure you get ten twenty, maybe at best thirty 57 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:09.719 cents on the dollar. Usually you don't get me you know, 58 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:12.639 usually it's more towards ten or twenty. So you know, 59 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:16.599 you need a load, you know, hopefully worth a million dollars. 60 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:18.840 So you could at least have one hundred thousand if 61 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:20.439 you got ten cents on it, Okay, and. 62 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:22.960 So and so. Therefore you you would fence the property. 63 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:26.919 Yeah, we had fences, but also too we did uh. 64 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:29.840 We were eventually charged with I don't want to say 65 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:33.879 I was acquitted in the end of these charges, but 66 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:37.960 we were also originally convicted of and charged with armored 67 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:41.240 car robberies as well. And that's just straight money. So 68 00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:43.800 there's yeah, I would see to the load. 69 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.800 If you get you know, a big you hit it 70 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:49.879 truck down. Yeah, you know pictures of of uh you know, 71 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:51.840 dead presidents. 72 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:55.360 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's one instance I could talk about 73 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:58.479 because I was charged with it. We went to uh. 74 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:01.000 We got to tip a guy originally came from New 75 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.439 York and he joined the Navy. He got out of 76 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:06.240 the Navy and he was down on his lock, got 77 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:08.240 a job, a couple of bad jobs, and then eventually 78 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:10.960 get landed a job with an army clock company and 79 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:13.080 he told us, look, come down here, you could hit 80 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:15.400 one of my trucks. You know the company I'm working 81 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:17.639 for it was a big, big armored car company, well 82 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:21.000 known throughout the country. So we did at Back then 83 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:24.279 it was pre nine to eleven, so after nine to eleven, 84 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:26.160 you know, you need proof. You have to prove where 85 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:28.680 you are before you bought a plane. It's tsa, et cetera. 86 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:32.800 Back then, though, we used to book fights with phony names. 87 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:38.920 We would put guns, walkie talkies, span is in a 88 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:41.759 in a box and just ship at ups, you know, 89 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:44.279 to California, to an address and it would be there 90 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:46.120 waiting for us when we got there. I don't know 91 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.680 if you could do any of that stuff today, I 92 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:50.920 can't imagine it. I can't even imagine booking a flight 93 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:54.160 without having you know, identification and stuff. But back then 94 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:56.839 you could. So we booked phony, you know, we booked 95 00:04:56.839 --> 00:04:59.319 flights under phony names. We sent all our weapons and 96 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:02.199 the other accouterments for for you know, for for a 97 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:06.399 heist down there, all the tools, and we got down there, 98 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:09.199 and what happened was he said, at the last minute, 99 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:10.920 you know, we went to dinner when we were going 100 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:12.920 over to plan stuff, and at the last minute he 101 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:14.839 got cold feet. He said, look, I'll give you another 102 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:17.319 truck to hit. I really don't want it to be mine. 103 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:19.959 I feel like they'll get me right after. They'll catch me, 104 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:22.959 they'll know. And so at that point I needed to 105 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:25.399 get another guy down there, because if we don't have 106 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:28.759 the driver, you know, it's it's it's it presents. You know, 107 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:31.680 you got difficulties if you're hitting guys that nobody's on 108 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.040 the inside. It's easier if you're hitting somebody from outside. 109 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:36.600 So what did you I mean, first, First of all, 110 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:38.079 you've got to be a little bit upset with this 111 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:41.120 guy who who invited you to do this deal and 112 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:43.120 now he's backing out on you at the last minute. 113 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:46.160 Yeah, at the time, you know, I'm obviously I'm a 114 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:49.439 little formed man. Now, you know, the whole situation is horrible. 115 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:51.680 But back then, yeah, I was. I was twisted. Yeah, 116 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:54.160 I was heated. So we got we got a guy 117 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:56.360 called New York. I said, look, I'll get another guy 118 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:58.639 down yeah, cold New York. I asked another guy from 119 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:01.279 micro get on a plane, hurry up, get down here. 120 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:03.439 We got you know, we're down here already. We're going 121 00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:05.759 to go through with something. So he came down, he 122 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:08.439 flew down. What happened was we didn't know this. He 123 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:10.360 got down there, he was down there a couple of days, 124 00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:14.360 and we were going back to a hotel UH in 125 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:20.240 San Francisco, and we got swarmed by FBI agents working, yeah, 126 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:25.199 working in concert with the police. Helicopters, bulletproof vest, machine guns. 127 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:31.199 You know, they just they took us in, righted you out. Yeah, 128 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:33.839 that's what happened. So the guy who I called he 129 00:06:33.879 --> 00:06:36.639 was he was a roommate with somebody who was an 130 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:39.839 FBI informant, and that guy he said, look, you know, 131 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.439 Louis called and he's got something big for me out west. Uh, 132 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:45.480 you know, drive me to the airport. And that guy 133 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:47.839 did not know exactly what we were doing, but he 134 00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:50.560 took the FBI and looked. And now I could look 135 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:53.399 back on it, Dan and say, by the grace of God, 136 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:55.920 you know, it was stopped. Who knows what could have happened. 137 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:58.000 So it's a good thing. But back then I was 138 00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:01.439 again I was you know, you know, we would you 139 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:02.480 know anyway we went. 140 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:06.319 How old were at that time, So I was. 141 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:08.519 In my early twenties when I was knocking on I was. 142 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:10.720 I was accused of knocking off one of the biggest 143 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:13.639 heights in US history in my early twenties. And my 144 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.519 crew were all in their thirties and forties, and you know, 145 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:21.399 defences we used were all in their sixties, so everybody 146 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:24.240 was older than me. But I was on the street 147 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:27.480 since I'm thirteen, and I delivered. And I always if 148 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:29.839 I said I was going to do something, I did it. 149 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.199 You know, there's talkers and there's doers, and like anything 150 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:35.680 like anything in the real world, in the old world 151 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:36.279 or the other. 152 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:39.240 World, so you were. You were, in effect, at a 153 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:41.079 very young age, a quarterback. 154 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:44.920 I was. I was. I would put the heist together. 155 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:48.079 I had the crew. They all listened to me, and 156 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:50.439 we were like a well oiled machine. We did what 157 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:53.000 we did really well. We didn't we never got caught 158 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:56.680 in the commission of a crime. I didn't understand the law. 159 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:00.360 I learned that later in life. I eventually studied after 160 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:06.000 I went through seven attorneys, including the famous civil rights 161 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:09.680 attorney William Kuntzler. I had originally retained Barry Slotnik. I 162 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:11.800 had some of the best attorneys money could buy in 163 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:14.399 the beginning, and eventually I learned the law. But I 164 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:16.000 didn't know the law when I was on the street. 165 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:18.759 And I thought, once we got away with the crime, 166 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:21.639 scott free, it was done. Just don't talk about it. 167 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:23.360 You know, if you didn't go, you should know. So 168 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:26.000 we didn't talk about it. And then what happened was 169 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:28.480 at some point or another years later, a few years 170 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:31.079 down the road. You know, a lot of crimes were 171 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:34.440 from when I was twenty twenty one, twenty two. Now yeah, 172 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:37.159 now twenty four to twenty five, and I'm facing life, 173 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:41.840 and what happened was the FBI. There was a guy 174 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:45.200 who one of the fences I used. He was a 175 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:48.159 big fence and give you an it's almost like it's 176 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:51.320 an incredible story. Again. The guy was on forty seventh 177 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:54.120 Street in the Julie District in Manhattan. That's where he operated, 178 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:57.360 and there was only like five or six fences, as 179 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:01.000 I understood it, for like decades. They had that handle anything. 180 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:04.120 You know. You could bring them the Stanhope diamond and 181 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:06.840 they could move it, you know, whereas other fence, another 182 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:08.360 fence might say, what the hell you want me to 183 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:09.679 do with that? I don't know where to go? Dad. 184 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.879 You could bring them a picasso, you know, a Dollari 185 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:17.039 van go anything. He could fence, and so we always 186 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:19.679 used him. It was my friend's uncle, and I looked 187 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:22.080 up to him. I called him uncle. I called him uncle, 188 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:24.720 your uncle Billy at the time. And I looked up 189 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:27.960 to him. And at some point or another a lot 190 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:30.600 of the heists I did, I brought all the merchandise 191 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:33.080 I brought to him, and he was aware of other 192 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:35.759 big heightts we did. And when he got arrested by 193 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.240 the FBI, he flipped. But he became what they call 194 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:42.519 and you would know for your listeners. He became what 195 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:45.039 they called a dry snitch. He wanted to be a 196 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:48.000 confidential informant. He did not want to testify against anybody, 197 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:51.080 but he gave up everything that I did, and the 198 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:54.679 FBI of all the crimes that they were looking at 199 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:57.320 they had thought of. It was like a lot of 200 00:09:57.360 --> 00:09:59.840 these big heists they thought were done by like a 201 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:02.720 season's crew, like a Jimmy Burke, you know, the guy 202 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:05.600 who did les Stanza. They figured, you know, they were 203 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:07.840 looking at all these big guys in their forties and 204 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:10.320 fifties who've been around hardened criminals and never knew it 205 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:11.840 was a kid in his early twenties. 206 00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:15.960 Rob Okay, please clip that then, kind to watch the language. 207 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:22.559 So obviously what happens is when you're doing this stuff, 208 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.519 you had no concept about conspiracy laws, You had no 209 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:31.039 concept about rico statutes, You had no concept about statues 210 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:34.840 of limitations. You figured, hey, now, six six months, it's 211 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:38.720 it's all in the rear view, Mira. So you you chose, 212 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:43.360 you chose not to snitch, and you did eight years. 213 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:46.720 With all that, you've were facing life in prison. Obviously 214 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:49.759 your lawyers must have worked some sort of well, I'll. 215 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:50.440 Tell you what happened. 216 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:53.960 Yeah, yeah, let me take a break, loose, just real 217 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:57.440 quickly because commercials. We'll use this as a break. We'll 218 00:10:57.440 --> 00:10:59.639 come back. We'll talk about it, and if folks wanted 219 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:02.759 the conversation, ask questions. I also want to talk about 220 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:09.320 the book that you have just written, Bogada Clash of 221 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:13.559 the Titans, and it does cover the period of nineteen 222 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:17.799 sixty to nineteen eighty five, which starts with obviously the 223 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:22.039 Kennedy administration in the person of Robert F. Kennedy, Junior President, 224 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:27.759 Kennedy's attorney general, his brother going after organized crime, and 225 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:30.559 while Jay go Hoover had been the head of the 226 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:34.080 FBI for about three decades and he was asleep at 227 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.840 the switch. And there's a lot of stuff going on 228 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:40.159 in the nineteen fifties that Hoover either turned a blind 229 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:43.159 eye to or he was too arrogant to what acknowledge 230 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:45.200 he was missing. We'll get to all of that. I 231 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:48.759 promise we're going to spend at least until eleven o'clock, 232 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:51.879 and I'd love to have those of you join the conversation, 233 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:55.559 ask questions. Organized crime is always something that has fascinated everyone. 234 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:58.919 We're getting a real inside look from Lou Ferrante. We'll 235 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:00.759 be back on night Side right after this. 236 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:04.919 Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World 237 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:08.159 night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio. 238 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:13.279 My guest is Lou Ferenting. He was a member of 239 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:17.679 the Gambino crime family, was associated with them, served eight 240 00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:22.279 years in prison because he would not incriminate fellow Gambino 241 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:25.679 family members. He's written a book called Bolgata, Riise of 242 00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:29.080 and Empire. It's just out. Has received a critical acclaim 243 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:32.799 from The Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Washington Free Beacon, 244 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:37.840 amongst others. And I find him to be a really 245 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:43.080 interesting gentleman, and he has turned his life around. How 246 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:43.639 old are you now? 247 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:46.679 If I could ask, Lou, Oh, I'm fifty five. Now 248 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:48.440 this is many years ago. I'm back going back to 249 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:49.559 the nineties when I was. 250 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:52.879 Wild, okay, And as they say, when you folks ended 251 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:59.960 up swarmed by FBI agents in San Francisco, how many 252 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.759 of how many were in your crew that day? How 253 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:04.600 many people were there? 254 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:08.320 So yeah, that day there was there was uh one, two, three, 255 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:11.519 four of us there and there were other guys you 256 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:13.879 know back home, obviously I had I had more of 257 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:16.879 a crew you know, it depends who I would use 258 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:18.720 for a job. But there were four of us in 259 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:20.799 San Francisco. There were three, and then the fourth guy 260 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:23.159 who joined us, and he had just joined us, and 261 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:25.960 that's when we got we got dragged in. There's actually 262 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:30.279 surveillance photos of that incident floating around on the computer somewhere. 263 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:32.600 Really, so I got to ask a question on that one. 264 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:35.120 Were you guys staying at a high class hotel in 265 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:36.320 San Francisco? 266 00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:41.320 No, No, we weren't. No, very very low key. It was. 267 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:44.240 It was what you would call a hotel motel, somewhere 268 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:46.159 you go like to hike, you know, from uh if 269 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:49.360 you're doing something wrong yester the day. Yeah, No it was. No, 270 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:50.559 it was no fancy place. 271 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:53.919 So now I want to drill down on some of this, 272 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:55.159 and I want to get to the book as well, 273 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:56.440 but I want to take the few minutes we have 274 00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:00.320 left before the newscast at the bottom of the hour. 275 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:06.399 I'm assuming you were born into this. I mean you 276 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:07.879 were you were born into. 277 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:12.879 This, most most of my friends were. I wasn't Dan. Actually, 278 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.879 I came from my mother's family was crooked. My my 279 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:19.080 grandfather was a World War two hero eight bronze stars 280 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:21.639 in the Asiatic Pacific. But he came home and his 281 00:14:21.799 --> 00:14:25.120 friends got him in the union. He drove heavy machinery 282 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:28.440 in the Operating Engineers Union, and he took numbers at 283 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:31.759 night in the bar. My uncle was a hijacka his son, 284 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:34.559 my mother's brother. We used to visit him in sing 285 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:39.399 sing Uh and different prisons throughout my childhood. 286 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:42.519 I made a nice family trip one. 287 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:47.039 Yeah. Yeah, we'd argued the whole way up there and 288 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:49.679 and and back, but it was like a typical Italian family. 289 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:54.159 Arguing is just part of conversation. Yeah, it was, you know, 290 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.080 we were allowed. But yeah, so that's how I grew up. 291 00:14:57.559 --> 00:15:00.039 But my father's family were law abiding when I I 292 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:02.840 got involved in the life, though, I did meet on 293 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.679 come in contact and became close friends with a lot 294 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:08.000 of people who were born into the life where their 295 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:12.120 fathers were the wise guys, their grandfathers, their uncles. One 296 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:14.399 of my dear friends, he's a captain in the Banano family. 297 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:17.960 He's away right now. He's a perfect example. His grandfather 298 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:21.759 was a captain, his uncle was a captain, and uh 299 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:24.639 and uh and in one of his cousins. All of 300 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:26.759 them rose to the rank of Capo at different times 301 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:29.320 in their lives, and they were all part of the 302 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:31.519 Banano family from the very beginning. They all came from 303 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:35.720 Castela Maurici del Golfo in Sicily, So there was people 304 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:39.320 I lived in uh. I practically lived for the better 305 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:42.000 part of seven or eight years in Peter Gotti's house. 306 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:44.600 Sean Gotty's oldest brother, Peter was a captain in again 307 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:46.720 final family, and I was in and out of that 308 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:50.799 house just about every day. They were born into the life, 309 00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:54.080 Peter Son, Peter Son, Peter was born into the life. 310 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.639 They knew nothing else. Although John wasn't and Peter wasn't. 311 00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:00.879 They were first generation. Actually nobody realized that John Gotti 312 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:03.799 was the first generation Mafio, so he wasn't born into 313 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:06.720 the life. Yeah, he came up. Him and his financial 314 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:10.559 Rgerio eventually met Neil Dough or became close when Neil 315 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.960 de la Crosch and then got involved with the game. 316 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:15.519 You know, family. But most of my friends were involved 317 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:17.840 in that life to some extent. They were born into it, 318 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:20.320 whereas I wasn't. And there was just as many guys 319 00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:21.559 who weren't like me too. 320 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:26.919 So when once you got into it, Okay, I'm assuming, 321 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:29.919 and if I'm wrong, here tell me. Okay, I'm I'm 322 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:33.320 I'm asking this. This is not a rehearsed interview. I'm 323 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:37.559 assuming that when you had some successes, whether it was 324 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.399 you know, hitting an armored truck, you know, hitting a 325 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:44.399 truck that you know that that really turned out to 326 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:48.759 be a money a money winner for you. I'm assuming 327 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:50.679 there was a little bit of an adrenaline rush when 328 00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:51.759 when things went right. 329 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:56.840 I loved it. Dan. If I look back now again, 330 00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:59.759 I regret it now today, from the moment I from 331 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:01.759 the and I started to rethink my life in prison, 332 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:04.559 I regretted it. But when I was involved and in 333 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:08.519 when I was doing it in real time, I loved it. 334 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.160 I thought it was the big It was incredible adrenaline. 335 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:13.799 I have skydived, and skydiving doesn't come close to it. 336 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:17.559 The adrenaline rush was incredible. And you're lawless as well, right, 337 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:19.759 you know, I abide by all the laws of society. 338 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:22.079 Now Ever, since I came home from prison, I abuie 339 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:25.640 by all the laws of society, and I'll never feel 340 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.079 that sense of lawlessness, which is also a sense of 341 00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:31.920 freedom philosophically speaking, you know, it's a sense of there's 342 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.400 nothing holding you down. You know, we all have to 343 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:36.640 live by the guidelines of society. Now, then we have 344 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:40.480 additional guidelines with our domestic lives. We have you know, 345 00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:42.960 you have a wife, you have children, you have responsibilities, 346 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:44.839 you have all kinds of things you have to abide 347 00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:47.400 by every single day. And then you have a boss. 348 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:48.839 You got to go to work. Then you have laws 349 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:50.240 of the way to work that you have to follow 350 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:52.400 on the road, et cetera. I didn't have any of 351 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:54.119 that law. 352 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:58.160 Become we want to become addicted to that lifestyle, just 353 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:00.559 like someone who tries drugs and they like it, they 354 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:01.359 become addicted. 355 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:04.039 I just I did. I loved it. I loved it. 356 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:06.920 I absolutely loved it. Dan and I loved it. And 357 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:09.480 you know, the big shock of going to jail, when 358 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:12.359 you're locked up in a cell, the first shock is 359 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:14.880 is you have removed from the street and you don't 360 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:17.960 have any of that action that you that that feeds you, 361 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:20.119 that that you live off of. It's all done, it's 362 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.599 all gone. And then you have obviously there's additional things 363 00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:27.000 are suffering. You know, there's loneliness. You missed your family 364 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:29.079 and your friends, and your loved ones and all that 365 00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:31.400 other stuff. But you also, I missed the action too, 366 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:33.400 and you have wise guys in there. I have to 367 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:34.960 tell you. It's funny you said that because you have 368 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:38.400 wise guys in there that also missed the action but 369 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:41.640 don't realize it's done, and they try to relive it 370 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.000 day after day. For example, if guys used to steal 371 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:47.119 stuff from the kitchen for us, Let's say guys were 372 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:50.240 smuggling spaghetti from the kitchen up to the tea block 373 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:51.920 for us so we can make spaghetti at night the 374 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:54.720 way we like it. You you would have the wise 375 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:57.119 guy going, hey, what'd you do with that pound of spaghetti. 376 00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:58.640 I'm gonna have a sit down with this guy over 377 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:00.440 the pound of spaghetti. We should have got that pound 378 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:02.200 the other guy got it. Next thing you know, they're 379 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:05.160 walking on the tier block and there's like sixteen wise guys, 380 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:08.359 you know, from every different family over a pound of spaghetti. 381 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:10.319 And I'm my own. You know, you got to be 382 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.079 kidding me. These guys are out of their minds, but 383 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:15.519 they're trying to relive the life that they don't have anymore. Yeah, 384 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.319 it's incredible, it's incredible, you know, And once I saw 385 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.680 the comedy. You know, I'm by myself laughing, going this 386 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:24.839 is this is, this is ridiculous. You know, you got 387 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:27.759 to realize, you know, we're not living this life anymore, 388 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:30.240 you know. And then they'll say, just chairs for so 389 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.640 and so, come over here. You've got to sit here 390 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:34.440 because he was sowing so on the street. And it's 391 00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:37.079 and they're playing the game still, they're not ready to 392 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:37.799 let go of it. 393 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.200 But you also, I assume having you know, been a 394 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.160 maid member, and I assume you were a maid member. 395 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.119 Correct, No I wasn't. No, they correct the record, So 396 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:48.960 just to be no, no, I was not. So I was. 397 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:51.920 I was plated to be. All my friends that I 398 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.759 hung out with right after I went to prison. I 399 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:56.720 went to prison, you know, I got locked up twenty four, 400 00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:58.960 twenty five. I'm facing the rest of my life in prison. 401 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:01.799