Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos, I am Damn Valley coming
at you once more with the one, the Only Me,
my certified Fantabular's co host, mister Grant Hugh's we have
giannest fever because Yannis keeps infecting everybody with it. We're
gonna talk about his latest trade demand, but we have
a bigger question we want to get to, which is
could the outcome of the Yannist Trades Sweepstakes change the
way we look at Superstar Trades forever?
Speaker 2: Is that already shifting?
Speaker 1: We will, of course get into all the stuff everybody loves,
potential teams, destinations, This will be time stamped if you
want to jump around. But we have one even more
important question that we have to ask Grant, how the
heck are you doing?
Speaker 3: I already feel changed by the by the y Honest
sweepstakes and the shifting market forces.
Speaker 4: Don't you feel different? I feel different a new phase.
Speaker 1: Watching Pat Spencer lead and almost come back against the
Sixers was a spiritual experience, and I'm forever changed from
having just seen that.
Speaker 2: So, yes, you did you.
Speaker 4: See the slow mo?
Speaker 3: The Sixers broadcast kept showing it. He had a big
three and he's like just screaming top of his lungs
at the crowd. Did you see this, Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm motherfucking him.
Speaker 3: No, Like, well, if that doesn't, if that doesn't, like,
if you weren't entertained by that, I'm sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know what you're watching.
Speaker 1: It's just the nerve of him to say that I'm
motherfucking him when you also for at the same time,
have Geese Antost.
Speaker 2: And will Richard the nerve of this, dude.
Speaker 3: Believe in yourself, man, just like it's a superpower self belief.
We should all we could all learn a little something
from past Spencer.
Speaker 4: Uh god, that was great. Uh. I checked out of
that game.
Speaker 3: And then there were a few texts that came in
from a text thread about the Warriors of like it
got competitive. It's all right, I guess I'll check back in.
Speaker 2: I almost did not watch the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: Actually told our discord, Hey, go join our discord because
I'll say things like I'm not going to watch the
fourth quarter Warrior sixers and.
Speaker 2: Then I'll leave it on anyway. And boy, was like
glad that I that I did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it got it got exciting in so far as
a game between I don't know, I don't know. I
don't want to lump the Sixers in there, but two
teams that are not the best the NBA has to
offer at.
Speaker 2: The moment, dominate Barlows Slanders left it right. It was
kind of cool VJ. Edgecomb getting the put back game
winner and then Tyrese Maxie with maybe the game saving
block the other end.
Speaker 3: That was that was a great job by the broadcast
crew there because they highlighted like how far he came
from because Maxi took the shot that was airball that
Edgecomb tipped into for the for the go ahead, and
he's like dead in the corner and Maxi just outruns
everybody for the chase.
Speaker 4: Gun I was like just phenomenal, really great.
Speaker 3: We're not here to talk about but.
Speaker 1: We're gonna do a breakdown of the very injury decimated
Warriors Sixers game from the other right now, we are
here to talk about the latest Giannis Tetakupo news and
the latest let me try.
Speaker 2: To nutshell this. Let's see if I get it.
Speaker 1: They Giannis is reevaluating his future again with the Bucks.
His agent Alex Aradis is involved. This is where we
were over the summer. Jake Fisher did report, not showing
any whys here, that Yannis thought a deal to the
Knicks was done fada complete in my opinion, obviously it's
gonna happen. We're just sort of here again, and I
don't know I understand why we're here. The reporting says
that Yannis was sold on this idea of contention for
this year. I had assumed him coming back was the
Bucks are trying to be decent, but he's also kind
of on board with a gap year and they're gonna
wait to recalibry over next summer. Him reaching this point
one quarter of the way through the season suggests to
me that that was actually not the plan. I just
have so many questions. Most of them are centered around, though,
the timing of it. What do you sort of make
of all this when you juxtapose it against weren't we
just here a few months ago?
Speaker 2: Over the all? But how are you this?
Speaker 1: I understand evaluating your future year by year, but now
we're reaching week by week with Giannis it feels like
almost yeah.
Speaker 3: So I'm glad we're having this conversation today because we
were thinking about having it yesterday and I feel like
I would have had a different take on it without
the benefit of like another day to kind of mull
it over. And I was actually gonna ask you, just
as like a discussion prompt almost, do you think Jannis
is being selfish?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Because like there's a way to frame it that way,
where because of what you said, like this is all
very familiar. This was kind of where we were over
the summer and him deciding, for whatever reason, maybe the
Knicks trade wasn't enough and that was the only place
he wanted to go, and so he's like, Okay, turns
out I'm in putting the Bucks in a position now
where it's just harder than it would have otherwise been
to get their fewer suitors, more teams are up against
caps and aprons, Like it's just harder now for the
Bucks to trade them than it would have been over
the summer.
Speaker 4: So is that selfish right?
Speaker 3: Because he there's a world where like he says, hey, guys,
it's best for both of us, obviously if we just
get this done, let's make it happen, And you could
argue that should happened two years ago. I'm curious what
your answer would have been to that question, but that's
not really the way I'm coming at it now. Well,
because I think the way I don't want to do.
You feel like there's two questions. Maybe you can just
answer and then I'll say what I want to say
after do you think it's a selfish thing? And then
two do you think like the time to actually have
handled all? This is not just this past summer, but
like a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: I almost had to want to answer your second question first,
which is this feels very similar to the Damian Lillard
situation in Portland, where neither side wants to be the
one to end this relationship and they're kind of trying
to force the other to do it. And this is
the closest we've come. This is Giannis Attentakompo's soft launch
trade demand. That's how I read this.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Maybe the calf injury changes things the selfish point. You
could look at it from the vantage point of he's
doing this in the middle of the season, after they
waved and stretched Damian Lowder went out and sign Myles Turner.
This is just you should have given them the full season.
I understand taking that stance. I'm going to counter it
by saying, he might be doing them a favor by
saying it, and this could actually be more of a
not selfless, but I'm trying to look out for everybody
involved here. The Bucks still have the opportunity to be
bad and get a really good draft pick right now,
because as of right now, they're not let's say they're
not trading him to the Hawks, they trade him somewhere else,
They're gonna get the worse of New Orleans' or their
own pick if you don't have Giannis. And when the
Bucks have not had Giannis this year to this point,
they have not been good, They're still gonna like the
worst of a Pelican's Bucks pick. If the Bucks don't
have Giannis is a pretty damn good pick. So by
making this decision now, if he were to do it
in January, right before the deadline, if the Bucks are
kind of smack dab in the middle and have lost
valuable tanking time, and I would counter the whole And
I did say this when people were kind of taken
aback that oh look what they just set that money
on fire for Damian Lillard, and it's well, yeah, if
you don't have Giannis, if you're worried about losing him.
What do you care about that dead money on the
books for the next half decade.
Speaker 2: And so it's not.
Speaker 1: Selfless, But I don't think it's as incalculated or selfish
as people are making it seem to where he just
woke up and said, oh, hey, I am taking this
week by week. I know I made the joke before
I'm ready to get out. He might just be surveying
the lay of the land. It's like, no, there's no,
it's not just about this season. There's no imminent pathway
to us contending now unless I play all eighty two games,
and so I might as well nudge them to get
rid of me now so they can capitalize on my value.
Still season a half left on his contracts, So even
if he gives them a list of one team, they
don't have to abide by it. If you get a
year and a half of Giannis, there will be teams
that come in with largess offers. But what I would say,
and this is a criticism, I think of both sides.
I understand these things are fluid, but like, let's pick
a lane.
Speaker 2: Do you want to be together or not?
Speaker 1: Because this is like if and if you both kind
of want to move on, like just make the.
Speaker 2: Call at this point.
Speaker 1: It's more painful and just awkward for everybody at this point.
Speaker 4: Right, So, a couple things. I want one.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a selfish decision by Yanness to
like kind of keep the team on the hook. It's
kind of the Lebron playbook, honestly, like over the years
where he would apply pressure to his organization to make
a move or like hey, fellas, like I'm on a
one plus one, don't know if you know, so I
know if things don't happen, I might if you don't
go get me timofay mosgov or whatever like or just
to take it way back, Giannis is kind of it
hasn't been quite as like passive aggressive or however you
want to characterize what Lebron has has kind of done
over the years. But it was pretty clear that the
Bucks have made a lot of moves that mortgage the
future because they have Gianness and they want to give
him the kind of roster he wants. Right Like, so,
so anyway, I don't I would have asked that question
and that would have been my approach. Yesterday we've just
discussed it so because it's interesting, But I actually don't
think that's because you see that a lot like Jannis
has kind of done a disservice to the Bucks by
whether it's getting Dame in the first place, or the
Miles turn or whatever other moves they've made, like they're
just continuing to make the next half decade or more
bad because he's got this misguided belief that or whatever
it is. Like, I don't think that's the right angle
for this, But if you're trying to explain, like one
of the questions over the summer was, how can Yannis
look at this team and see a contender? If it
is true that what he wants to do is win
a championship wherever that is, how could he possibly look
at this team and think that's realistic? Right, Like, no,
none of us thought that that, Like that seemed irrational.
And I think that's the key word for me now.
And this is sort of how I absolve yanis of
like of blame. I guess if that's even the right
kind of way to approach this, is he has sort
of a justifiable belief in his own like superhuman qualities,
Like he's he just like walks around the world in
a different way than everyone else, and in a league
of super athletes, like he has dominated it right, Like,
so everybody in the NBA has a degree of irrational
comm We just talked about past Spencer, Like Pat Spencer
thinks this way too. The Yannis is just like an
extreme example of it, where he could look at a
team as bad as we thought the Bucks looked, and
as incomplete and as many holes as we he could
look at that and be like, well, I'm on the team.
We got a shot, right, So it's like it's much
more he was able to convince himself quickly. I believe
I think he sincerely thought, Okay, I'm gonna be here.
I think we can win it in the summer or
prior to the season, right. I think he believed that
because that level of belief in himself is like part
of what got him to this point from where he started,
like his life and his career, And so I don't
feel like it's a selfish thing. I think it's just
he can't see the landscape clearly because one of the
things that makes him so great makes it impossible for
him to make certain concessions like oh, we aren't good
enough actually he needed to actually experience it through the
first quarter of the season and see it and feel
it and just look around at who's on the floor
next to him and say like, Okay, it's not about
belief anymore. It's just like we're under five hundred. There's
no like we don't have a superstar coming off an
injury to like reinforce things like this is what we are.
Speaker 4: That's to me? Does that make sense to me?
Speaker 3: That's how I see this is like, because it's so
easy to be like nothing's changed. Why couldn't you see
this before the season and have just like made the
trade demand then or a year ago or whatever. I
just think what makes him great is what makes him
incapable of like pulling the trigger on something like this
until it's just like it's so obvious that it like
breaks through the fog of his of his self confidence.
Speaker 1: Do you think the newness of the roster around him though,
could contributed to the curiosity factor where there is that
level of self belief, But also, well, I don't know
what this is gonna look like with like Miles Turner
over Brook Lopez and like we're getting more of a
egalitarian approach from the supporting cast. And there's that the
other element too that I don't think any of us
have really waited enough. He doesn't want to leave Milwaukee.
If he has his preference, he would stay there. And
for him, maybe even more so than Damian Lillard, it's
more difficult to bring himself to leave because he has
already won in Milwaukee. And so because the other thing
I was gonna ask you is, at this point, isn't
there a chance Maybe a lot of this will depend
on what the packages look like, and I promise we'll
get into those later down the line.
Speaker 2: Could the Bucks still salvage this situation?
Speaker 1: If Giannis's will, like we just mentioned, they could still
be bad this year, get a pretty good pick, then
you're either bringing in this talent for the twenty twenty
six draft, you will have the ability to trade two
first round picks this summer in twenty thirty one and
twenty thirty three on top of whoever you've drafted or
wherever this pick lands. If he kind of just gets
on board with a gap year, could you see this
all ending or are we getting too far out in
front by saying, well, that depends on what the offers
might be on the table, because I think it might
be easier to say, well, they should see what's out
there before going like trying to salvage this situation or
thinking that's the best route.
Speaker 2: I just keep coming back to.
Speaker 1: I do think some Bucks fans there have been a
lot in our comments that just want to trade Giannis
at this point, I kind of applaud them ripping off that,
but because frankly, that's how this is gonna end.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it means to hear this, this
is how it's gonna end.
Speaker 1: But like I've kind of seen people jumping through hoops
of just like trying to twist themselves into a pretzle
of why this could all still work out. Maybe it could,
but I'm just the level of the number of things
that need to go right. First and foremost, you need
to sell Giannis on this being a gap year, because
I will say the Bucks are not getting to that
point of contention without going through this gap year getting
that good pick, and then either are you keeping that
player trading the other two picks and that's what you're
forming with Gianness, or you're trading everything that's the old
To me, is the only pathway that could make it,
so Yiannis might see the Bucks are good enough, or
the Bucks are acted actually in a position to be
good enough to keep his interest would be we have
to stomach through this gap year. And that's kind of
what everyone was saying before this season ever started.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting. So part of that rests on the
reality that, like when we went through some hard and
Clippers trade stuff, like the Bucks came up and we
were talking about like what the Bucks can give up.
So the part of what you're arguing is that they
just don't have enough, like even if they just want
to continue down the road they've gone down for the
last several years trading future picks whatever to just get
another guy in there to help you honest, it's just
too hard to do something meaningful enough in season to
make that kind of improvement. And you're saying, like, you know,
at the end of the year or at the start
of the next league year, when they can trade on
Draft night, this this pretty good pick there probably gonna
get Like that's when they could get the guy that
would they could sell Yannis on as like.
Speaker 1: Or no, we can win now, or or is it
for them specifically, is it is it sort of the
Damian Lillard Portland situation where remember where they ended up
in the lottery and or they got scooted right. So
let's say the Pelicans win the lot Let's say they
the Pelicans and Bucks end up drafting one in two,
which be a disaster for New Orleans quite frankly. But
if you end up with a top three pick anyway,
because New Orleans was so bad that their pick heads
to Atlanta, they might say, I don't like we got
If they end up with one of the three best
of we have the guy, We're okay moving on from
Giannis or like to your point, Oh.
Speaker 3: There's two ways to salvage it. One is they get
the guy, they get the Cooper flag, or they get
the whoever that like, well, we now we got like
we can sell fans on this new era. We can
move on from Giannis because we're gonna build around. We
found someone that's worthy of building around that isn't him.
Or they could use that pick and some other stuff
to get a veteran and keep doing the same, or.
Speaker 1: Like the that there's that and then the third thing
that you split the baby and we're sorry, where to
split the baby come from?
Speaker 3: Why is it why I said that, as all weird
ass things come come from. It's a Bible thing.
Speaker 2: Oh is it?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I'm biblical? Who knew it? I didn't.
Speaker 1: So could you say, okay, we have this really, because
if you draft someone who's good in twenty twenty six,
if you are still dangling just your twenty thirty one
and twenty thirty three selections with salary matching, teams are
gonna like, that's gonna peak curiosity. And so you could say, hey,
we have Yannis, we think this player X can contribute
semi right away, but we're also gonna go out and
get player X, And so it's they would just have
more optionality if you go through this season as a
gap year with Yannis, and I honestly thought there was
some sort of tacit agreement as to that's what was
gonna happen. If things started to go off the rails
to where we haven't even mentioned the cash strain, that's
gonna sideline him for two to four weeks.
Speaker 2: He's not gonna be all NBA in eligible at the
end of this.
Speaker 1: That was kind of the scenario in my head, was
if something like this happens, he will just be on board.
Speaker 2: Throwing away not ideal. He's about to turn thirty one.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is ideal for anyone, but if
you're trying to make it work in Milwaukee, which is
the guys under which they want all of us to operate,
I thought that was the end. Which is why I
find the timing of this just so, because it does
seem then like he either did change his mind or
there was some fundamental disconnect between what the organization was
selling and what he was buying.
Speaker 3: I gotta believe he changed his mind, because I think
everybody's posture was we got Miles Turner, we got some shooting,
we got Yiannis, we think we can contend in the East.
And I think that just reality kind of crept in
and the and that was that they can't. It does
feel like to me, it feels like more of a
mind change. But you could be right that, like the
Bucks told him one thing and then the situation turned
out to be different.
Speaker 4: And he's out.
Speaker 3: I do think it is important to keep in mind
this idea though, that you're raising of. Look, I think
I think a trade's gonna happen. I think it's just
like it's one of those like it doesn't it have
to like it just it's one of those things that
like I don't know, you could throw throw whoever Trey.
Speaker 4: Young LaMelo ball jaw like Dame years.
Speaker 3: Ago, Like if there's just an if it happens enough,
Like how often do these things ever resolve in like
a you know what, We're all just gonna we're gonna
hang together like it just I don't know, the ball
starts rolling downhill and at some point you can't reverse
the momentum. It just that that's how this feels to me,
especially since we did get like a little oh it
might happen over the summer, right like and maybe if
the Knicks had more to give, it would have.
Speaker 1: Uh, this is the most drawn out and some of
it is media manufactured to be sure where they were
people had Yannis Circle before Yannis was it. But it's
just this is what we're two plus years now of
Yannis having wandering eyes, maybe even three, and so it
feels like it's been I agree with you overall, I
just don't. I'm wondering if it's harder for the Bucks
to let go of Jan because how much longer would
it take you to find another Janis, You're probably never
go And this is I'm not trying to disparage Dame here.
The connection with Portland and the city just this equal
to what Jannis has with Milwaukee, I'm sure.
Speaker 3: But Dame was never as good as Yiannis. Like that's
just so he Dame was never capable of being the
best player on a title winning team. Yannis did that
and has played at a level that that he could
have been five six other seasons. Basically very different situation.
So yeah, the Bucks, that's an interesting question.
Speaker 4: Who is this harder for?
Speaker 3: Like, is it harder for Yannis to say I want
to leave Milwaukee or is it harder for the Bucks
to say we're ready to move on from Yannis.
Speaker 1: I think it's the for the Bucks's part, just because
the player you can you can always say it's not
like he. People will point out and they already have
a look at all the Bucks did to try and
keep him, and it's yet, no shit, he's Janice attent
to Coopo, Like your obligation is to try and win
with Janice attent to Cupo. For the Bucks, I think
it's just we're never gonna get someone like him again,
and if it is, it's gonna be fifty years from now.
Speaker 3: Right, And like the distance between Kareem and Yannis is
like the distance between the honest and the next guy.
Speaker 1: And the other thing would be While this isn't fair
for us, this as a reason to why Gianna should
feel obligated to the Bucks. The Bucks have to look
and say, like, look at what we've done to like
really try and float this Yannis thing further.
Speaker 2: But I don't it would be different for them.
Speaker 1: The fact that they haven't traded more future first round
equity twenty thirty one, the twenty thirty two, like, haven't
touched those.
Speaker 2: It just makes it.
Speaker 1: This is the point of where it's it's gonna be
messy because of how long it's taken to get here,
but we're kind of at the crossroads of this can
be a pretty clean break to where you haven't doubled
down again. You did the Dame thing and then you
never really did anything nuclear after that.
Speaker 2: Everybody can move.
Speaker 1: On and you're gonna get up a haul for Giannis.
The timing of this is also it's may. It probably
would have been better to move him over the offseason,
but it's better to move him now than this summer,
because teams that aren't on his preferred list they are
still going to come. We have eighteen months to so
Jannis on sticking around. They are going to be It's
it's a lot different than just oh, we only have
one season.
Speaker 3: M m h yeah, no, I think, I mean it
feels it feels funny after in light of like the
Bucks waved and stretched Damian Lillard, like that's a crazy
outlay to just I don't know, just again, it's part
of the series of moves to to sort of give
them the possibility of surrounding Honus with enough win noow talent,
Like I think the Bucks can say we did everything
we feasibly could have to make this work for you,
honest and so like they can kind of if they
want to make the break they like nobody's gonna be
able to tell them like you didn't try hard enough,
Like you know, this comes up when we talk about
the Warriors sometimes or other teams. It's like go now,
go now. The Bucks have been going now for a
really long time, Like it's almost to the point of
like it's unbelievable how many years in a row they've
like they've tried to do this, so like it's kind
of like the reverse of the Clippers tear down hypothetical
of like, man, there's a lot of people to blame here,
where it's like Yannis just is kind of loyal and
believes in himself and the team and stuck it out
longer than most people in a situation.
Speaker 4: Would have, and the Bucks.
Speaker 3: Tried their best to like make it work, and it's
cool if they want to split, you know what I mean.
I think you're pointing to that a little bit of
like there's nobody to blame here. Everybody's done their best,
like and came at it from a like a good place.
Speaker 1: And this leads me into what would be the big
question because you start to get into now everyone's like, okay,
well what about packages and what teams make the most sense?
The team that Yannis has been linked to the most
is the New York Knicks because they were apparently on
his preferred list of destinations, which, okay, sure, like if
you want to play with Jalen Brunson in New York,
and like, I totally get that, the Knicks arguably make
the least sense for the Bucks of any single team
that could make a Yannice Attenta Koombo offer because you
could get it. They're like the Honestly, they probably do
make the least sense of any team. For the Bucks, well,
I'm just trying to think of who is more, who
has fewer? The Knicks can't cannot trade a single first
round pick right now, they can trade up to two
over the summer. Is there another team that is that
down bad when it comes to putting together a package
for rannest?
Speaker 3: I mean, who's got the Sons? Like the Sons that
have no control over their picks.
Speaker 1: But even then it's like if yeah, and they're not
gonna give up, So yeah, the Suns maybe, but no, this.
Speaker 3: Is where that conversation with because we'll talk about the
Knicks because they've been talked about, but like there's no
scenario where they have the fifth best offer for your
honest like, it's it's just they're in the conversation because
Giannis seems to want to be there and if he is, like,
this is where it could turn a little uglier as
if he says Nicks or nothing and the Bucks just
can't you know, you get a stalemate that way because
the Bucks are like We've got twenty eight other offers
that are better than what the Knicks are offered. So
how are you gonna do us like this now after
we've you know, that could make it messy.
Speaker 4: I just I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't think the Knicks are realistic for like a
hundred reasons.
Speaker 1: In my totally like unbiased opinion, I think he should
absolutely say that it's rights or bust.
Speaker 4: We understand.
Speaker 1: But but so here's but here's what's interesting. And so now,
because Yanna's name checked to the Knicks, you've seen a
lot of well, the Knicks, they can't do this if
it's they can't just give up everything to get you honest.
And then the response, naturally is what your face was
just now, No, you you've already mortgaged the future. You
give up everything to get you honest. Here's my counter
to that one. Your your reaction is right short of
trading Jalen Brunton, because the whole idea would be to
pair those two together. The Knicks do not have a
leg on which to stand if they're just gonna say
no like in theory. But as the Knicks, you do
have to look at we're pretty shallow. Now even though
we're deeper than last season. If we're con solidating into Giannis,
how are we much better off short or long term?
How much better off can you actually get now? The
idea of having Giannis and Brunson, your ceiling is just
higher than if you have McHale Bridges, O Giananobi and Brunson.
But the extra steps that come with having Giannis where
even in a league where we're seeing more of these
dual big lineups where both of the bigs or non shooters,
Joannice kind of needs to have a floor spacing rim
protector around him to be maximized. So you have to
factor that into the equation. You also have to realize, well,
we're already expensive. We have we'll have some picks to
trade this offseason, but who are we gonna go out
and get.
Speaker 2: We're not gonna have any money to spend.
Speaker 1: They might they're gonna be up against second Apron concerns,
they might not even have the mini mle.
Speaker 2: So I look at it from the Knicker. If you're
the Knicks, you have to say we can.
Speaker 1: There has to be a line to where no, we
can't give up both og and McHale Bridges because who's
what Jannice is gonna guard the ball all of a sudden,
in especially if deduced McBride is being sent out go ahead.
Speaker 3: I was just gonna say no, I'm I mean so normally,
and I almost said it was if you're the Knicks
and you're yet like the depth is you sure concerning?
But if you can get Giannis and pair him with Brunson,
you figure out the rest later. But what we're going
to talk about a lot today is like, maybe that's
the wrong way to build a team now because of
how things are changing.
Speaker 1: And to that end, I think it's easier for the
Knicks to take what your stance was, just do it
and figure out the rest later because you're already well
no it's not just because you're the Knicks, but you've
already just set all of your future first round like
equity on fire at this point. But for teams that
haven't yet, this is the question that's kind of springing
to mind for me, is are we past the point
where you're going to invest so so much pick equity
in a singular player, especially at a certain point in
their career. Because the question that you and I bounced around,
which was one of the catalysts for this podcast that
we're having right now. What's the last superstar trade age
thirty or older that just worked out where you saw them.
Speaker 2: Give up everything?
Speaker 1: You could say some people argue that, oh, the Rudy
Gobert Donovan Mitchell trades haven't panned out, and one they
were younger than Giannis is now at the time. And
also the Timberwolves made consecutive conference finals. And I'm not
writing like Cleveland is still my pick to come out
of the East this season. I don't like the Kevin
Durant stuff has like not worked a couple of times.
Now you look at like what it like, I guess
the Mavericks trading for Anthony David special circumstance that hasn't
worked out obviously, And so you get to a point
to where, because superstars reorient the way you play so much,
is it almost I don't want to say.
Speaker 2: It's a better idea.
Speaker 1: Is it easier to say we're gonna give up what
we did for Desmond Bane than what it would take
to get Jannis And then the other thing there the
second part, and this is where I really want your
input on, just given what we've kind of seen the
emphasis around the league on certain trends depth, offensive rebounding,
which is not that's not a star thing.
Speaker 2: Who's a superstar that offensive rebounds right, Like.
Speaker 4: We've decided to do this is right? What that is?
Speaker 1: And then if you want the depth is important because
of one, you want to be able to play different ways,
because despite what people say, the NBA is not a
homogeneous league stylistically. And two, if you want to do
all this full court pressing, all this crazy defensive shit,
or play offense at a quick clip, you probably shouldn't
be having guys out there for Nick Nurse minutes per game.
So investing in a superstar looking at it through that lens,
especially as a copycat league which saw the Pacers kind
of do it for three years whatever it was, and
now we're just seeing more of it pepper throughout the league. Grant,
is it just more prohibitive than ever? And this is
nothing of the Aprons and like juggling, like roster building
after the fact, is it more prohibitive than ever as
any sort of team to go all in on one player?
Speaker 3: I think there's so many ways to go here. I
think the first thing that jumps to mind is that.
I think you're it's pretty clear that trading for the
post thirty superstar unless it's I guess like I would
what would you point would you point to, like Lebron
coming back to Cleveland? I don't even know if he
was thirty then for the second time or Lebron.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's not like a that's.
Speaker 3: Not the kind of trade package we're even really talking
about now. Like Harden is another one that teams have
given up a ton for past thirty, and it's just
it just hasn't worked anywhere.
Speaker 2: That was Lebron's age thirty season. Okay, anyway, he also
I can't even remember what was that package, like, or
did he just get traded? He just signed?
Speaker 4: He signed, right, and.
Speaker 3: Then they do the the the Kevin Love deal that
involves Wiggins or the pick that was all this other Yeah, right,
So that's not it. That's that's not an example of
what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: No, you're right, I think it's is it Kevin Durant,
It's Kevin Durant to Phoenix, except Giannis is younger and
yeah better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I I think I saw someone pointed out the
other day that if Joannis were to be traded. Uh,
it would be, well, he can't make all in, he
won't make All NBA probably, but like basically, you don't
see all NBA players traded in season almost ever.
Speaker 1: Can I interject with something completely random that you just
made me think of? Johannis isn't going to be eligible
for All NBA, Tatum Hallie already gone, j dub gone.
Lebron's not going to hit that threshold. Well, Steph hit
that threshold at this point he.
Speaker 2: Seven absences in.
Speaker 1: Maybe would it not be utterly hysterical if both Lugadntrich
and Jalen Brunson made first team.
Speaker 2: All NBA just as a Mavericks fan like that.
Speaker 4: Oh, we'd have to do a separate podcast on that.
Speaker 1: I'm not making fun of MAVs fans there, I'm just
saying that's got to be that kind of you gave
up these dudes and like what are you left?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they got so much, they got so many
first round picks for the both of them.
Speaker 2: That's Christy is generation talent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, correct, No, Okay, so there's that, there's that part
of it, there's the it's maybe it's just generally regardless
of what we think is happening to the NBA like
tactic and like trend wise and asset management wise, like
it's probably just a bad idea to trade a bunch
of stuff for someone over thirty, like full stop, I
guess if it's a superstar, I do think I love
the idea of asking whether you know we've seen like
just I don't know. Miami's an example, Portland's an example, Toronto,
like all these teams that are just playing Houston.
Speaker 4: Not to say none of these teams don't.
Speaker 3: Have stars, but it's like the way they play is
kind of more definitive of who they are than any
single player. Maybe, like I don't know, Alprin Shangoon might
have something to say about that. But so so then
if you're asking, like should you just not give up
as much for a Yannis a type player in so
far as there are any, like it's tempting to say yes,
Like the market is shifted a little bit, and you've
got to be more careful with those types of trades
and what you're willing to give up for someone like Giannis.
That would just change everything about how you play, just redefine.
I mean, you could extend that to like LaMelo or
even Trey Young or whoever. But isn't the pushback that Yeah,
like the games changing teams are hacking pace and offensive
rebounds and full court pressure and depth and all this
like the Pacers of it all from last season. But then, like,
I don't know, what's the last team to make a
conference finals, let alone win a title that didn't have
someone you could like squint and say that's a top
five player. So the isn't the guy we're talking about?
The Jannis in this hypothetical still just a necessary component
of the whole operation, And if you don't have that,
what are you even doing? So therefore, you should just
give up everything you can't to get that guy and
figure out the rest later.
Speaker 1: My counterpoint to that would be, of the teams that
are winning these titles, how many of them have ever
needed to trade for the best player on their team,
and if they did, how much they need to give up?
So Shan with Okac is just no one expected them
to be that, but they got stuff that was them
trading to even Kawhian's Rono, Yeah they traded for him,
but they gave up like that that was the leverage situation.
It's just no one knew what he was health wise.
Everyone thought he was gonna leave to go to LA
the following year, so they didn't give up a ton
to get him. It's even just you know, continuing through
the Knicks lens because they were just the inspiration of
by no means is it rational to say, well, we're
not giving up O g Ananobi, or we're not giving
up Towns, or we're not giving up Mickailber's and Yanna's trade.
But I understand the logic, even the Knicks, the way
they've built their team, Like it's just when's the last
time a team is gutted its own like sort of
draft stable doesn't have this premier homegrown guy on the
roster and won a championship.
Speaker 3: Right right, So like the question of Lebron, who's the
title winner? That made a trade that you could even
compare to a potential Yanni's trade this season, Like who's
the let.
Speaker 2: Is it David with La? That's the that's the because
they gave up a bunch of stuff for Davis.
Speaker 3: But but even then, like the yeah, what was that package?
Even though that was a pretty yeah, that was a
pretty heavy one card.
Speaker 1: Kuzmo was in there, they end up getting the pick
that was that was DeAndre Hunter's pick was in there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Ingram's in that deal, right right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean maybe that's the exception that proves the rule,
or maybe that is just like the blueprint.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's interesting because like if you look at some of
the teams that Giannis might go to, like Atlanta comes
to mind, like people, I feel like I've read that
Atlanta would be regarded as the favorites come out of
the East if you added Giannis, And it's like, yeah,
that sounds right, just in assuming you know, just who
knows what they would have to give up specifically, But
like the precedent for that being true just is Davis
and what else. Like it's there aren't a lot of
examples of that kind of trade leading to the result
you assume it would lead to. So like when you
think about, like I don't know, think about like going
way back the the Rockets when they repeat as champs,
they get Clyde Drexler, like he's clearly their second best
player on that team, or like Rashid Wallace to the
Pistons is the other like mid season trade that's like,
oh my god, that made all Usually they're I mean
exceptionally talented, not their best player probably right, like you
might say that's Ben Wallace or Chauncey Billups or whatever.
So like that level there, there's there's a precedent for
that level of trade, like propelling you to a championship.
Speaker 4: It's really harder, much harder.
Speaker 3: To find the the like if you're Atlanta and you're like,
we could win a title if we get you, honest,
it's like maybe, but like there's unless you think the
Anthony Davis trade is like how it works every time?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: And then to your point, so then what's it worth
to give up for that guy? If if it's like
odds are it won't get you the title you think
you're gonna get because it's the home it's the Shades,
it's Jokics, it's it's Detroit has Kate Cunningham. Now that's
a homegrown guy that gave up nothing except many many
losses together, Like, well, you can always pay in losses.
Speaker 4: That's the best thing. That's the best currency.
Speaker 1: That's the argument against what we're just we're just asking
questions here. This is an that is you have to
think in the short term, if you're good enough to
an extent, because when are you gonna have this chance
to win a title again? My counter to that would
be the Oklahoma City Thunder exists, And is there a team, like,
just looking at this era of basketball that you put
Giannis on and let's assume the trade package, you look
at it and say, oh, like they made out pretty well,
that's less than a little less than I thought that
you like, he went for Karl Anthony Town straight up.
Speaker 2: I was just so you're you're feeling that way about
the package.
Speaker 1: What is the team you put him on where you
would say, oh, that's a team that's on par with
Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't have one.
Speaker 4: Well that's I.
Speaker 1: Mean, if they don't have to give up Shanekun or
Amen Thompson or Kevin Durant.
Speaker 3: Even then you still got questions, right Like even then,
it's it's you're asking fit questions. You're asking like, what's okay,
what's the share of touches?
Speaker 2: Look like? Now?
Speaker 3: I think like the counter to that, we're just doing
a lot of countering. I don't think that can be
a factor because, like I mean, I was thinking the
other day, like I don't know that the Kawhi Leonard
led the Toronto Raptors to a title over the Warriors,
because the Warriors fell apart like Clay Thompson blew out
his knee and Kevin duranb But like I'm not saying, like,
it's just like you can look pretty indomitable until you
are eminently beatable. Like so not to say that the
Thunder are so much younger, and it's just a different
situation and it's like they.
Speaker 1: Seem more stable in every way Brandon Jaleen Williams. They've
risked chat Homer's deal with a bunch of different stuff an.
Speaker 3: Right, So so I guess my cop out answer your
question is like, I, well, one, I don't I don't
think there's a team you put you Honis on that
could realistically get him and give up what it would
cost to get him. And you say like they're on
toe to toe with the Thunder fully healthy, like.
Speaker 4: No doubt about it.
Speaker 3: But I think, like that can't be that can't be
your bar because because if if the Thunder are healthy,
then it's just like well, like I said last time
we talked, it's like it's kind of impossible to play
better than them based on his historical precedent. So like, yeah,
we're all playing for second, but things happen, you know,
so that that wouldn't be a factor for me. I'm
I'm I'm most interested in your because this was kind
of your like you came with in pain. Because there's
thinking so many different thoughts. Do you I want you
to kind of like break down to me the some
of the idea of just the way the game is
being played? Now are you saying that it's not just
the trade package and the assets you give up for
a player like Giannis, it's the the payoff itself isn't
as great because of the way team the different ways
that teams are using to win. Now, like here's the
Pacers last year as an example, they had Haliburton, who
you know, I believe is five player.
Speaker 2: But what different this is?
Speaker 1: So Yiannis is better than these players I'm about to name,
So like, look, let's look at Halliburton as the example.
What differentiates Tyre's Haliburton from Trey Young Jah Moran specifically?
I mean, I think LaMelo ball is basically on par
with you know, prime Lebron but stuff, But what differentiates
Tyre's haliburt from a lot of those or just a
lot of trade stars in general, is he is more
The way he plays is going to be more scalable.
And I know he played on the ball a lot
in Indiana, but there's a lot of things he was
doing off the ball that we have never seen Trey
Young do off the wire. Jah Morant was stationed off
the ball last year and he pouted for a few months.
He was on the ball this year and pouted too,
So I don't really know what's gonna make him happy there,
even LaMelo. That's when LaMelo takes a catch and shoot three,
and he's taken more of.
Speaker 2: Them this year.
Speaker 1: It's man that that feels good, and it also feels foreign,
and a lot of that's more personnel based in his situation.
Speaker 2: I think even we're kind of the view on those guys.
Speaker 1: Isn't it almost feeling like a little bit of an
extension of how we've come to view guards who can't
run the offense or play wing spots. You're not viewing
them as one dimensional, but you're building your teams differently.
And so it's yes, when there's a Luca, all things
are gonna run through Luca, but even Luca in Dallas
and what we're what we've seen in LA because of
reason now that Lebron is back, that's not even gonna
be someone who should be p Helio centric. What are
the Knicks kind of finding out with Jalen Brunson that no,
we should he shouldn't be are all he's still there
all everything, but maybe we should get this guy from
catching shoot threes or have mckel bridges bring the ball
up a little bit more. There's there's different levels to it,
but the way that it feels like offenses are being run.
I don't want to go as far as egalitarian, but
there's more complexity to the way a lot of these
shots are being generated. And I don't look at any
I'm trying to think of the number of teams right now.
I look at and you could pinpoint, yes, there's a team,
there's plenty of teams. You lose one player, it's over,
But like, how many teams are just all in on
like one singular guy as they're entirely like even the
Nuggets with Jokic because you have drumont Like, there's just
different there's different levels to that pecking order and then
the other even more than that, to me, might be
the stuff that's happening around the way. You're like like
offensive rebound and you said it before, that's kind of
a decision and you need to tell your it's not
we have this stary. There are stars who can do it,
but it's not their superstar and they offensive rebound a ton.
It's not like we're gonna load the deck with like
a Mitchell Robinson, or we're gonna have a Steven Adams
on the team, or we're just gonna try and play
dual Biggs and be super huge. And that's the other
thing is Houston's experimenting with. We're just getting away from
positions in general, but we're almost getting away from the
idea of even a primary playmaker. And I know that
this doesn't necessarily fit the context of Giannis just but
when you combine it with everything else, including the way
that a lot of teams want to defend nowt or
what you're dealing with when it comes to full court pressure,
and then you're gonna need the trickle down effect of
that is teams need what instead of two, like three
or four guys you trust to bring the ball up
the floor. Because of that, I'm just wondering if it
dilutes the what it's worth to go after and get
a star you don't already have because of the baggage
that comes with it. And what I mean by baggage
is not necessarily bad things, but well, you need to
retrofit your roster around some of these players, and Giannis
would fall into that bucket. There are very few start
I think if you choppered, I think Tyre's Haliburton Steph
for great examples of this. You just put them on
any team and you don't necessarily have to make changes
around them. At least on the offense, they were just
gonna make it work regardless. But Yiannis, it's sort of
whether it's defensively, it feels like there's more thinking needs
to go. It doesn't change how good he is, but
more thinking needs to go into building a team around him. It's,
by the way, it's the argument some people are making
to differentiate the MVP between Yokich and Shay to where
they think that it's easier to build a championship team
around Shay than it is Jokic, or that if you're
so dependent on Jokic, doesn't leave you especially vulnerable to
establishing an identity independent of Yokic, And there might be
something to that when you look at how much the
Nuggets have struggled without Jokic on the floor his entire
prime basically, And That's where I'm coming at this from
is now it feels like, Okay, a lot of these
things have maybe existed at one point together, but now
so many of them are. They're not just happening concurrently,
but they're in the spotlight concurrently that I'm it's I'm
sort of just wondering, Oh, it's not that we're getting
away from superstars, but I wonder if we're gonna get
away from the idea of we need if we're this
good and need to get to the next level, Like
if Jiannis comes on the market four first round picks
our best young player, quality veteran build off that let's go.
I don't think that's gonna be as reflexes. And I'm
also wondering does sort of these trades of years past
serve as cautionary tales now? Because the Clippers will tell
you they thought the Shay trade, like that trade was
gonna work out for them. It didn't even the Timberwolves
with Rudy Gobert. Okay, you're not trading in those two
conference finals, but look at how hard it's been for
you to like build off that you made the Rob
Dillingham swing. But if that doesn't pan out, your margin
for error of making another move is so thin. I'm
gonna be very curious after this season, if you were
to give Cleveland truth serum, how do they feel about
the Donovan Mitchell thing.
Speaker 2: The Knicks with Michael Riches. I think anyone in.
Speaker 1: That organization would have said that they fucked up last year.
They're probably with Giannis on the trade market now. I'm
sure there's plenty of people that still feel that way.
Speaker 3: I think it's if this is turning into like an
even bigger question than it started out. It was pretty big.
It's kind of a it's like they honest trade is
an interesting vehicle to discuss the like the trend of
helio centrism, I guess, and because I was just thinking
like if what you're saying is true or if it
means that like the last basically the NBA since Michael
Jordan has been focused on like let's get the guy.
There's only five guys on our team on the floor
at once. If you have the greatest guy out there,
that's that's what you need to start with. I think
that's still probably true. Like you, you know, title winners
just have a top five guy generally speaking, and then
a lot more also, so like is this are are
the old heads gonna be like excited about what you're
talking about or pointing towards Because a team's system or
like a player's ability to fit into a system and
not need all these tweaks and all these other asset
outlays and all this that and the other to onboard
somebody and then to reorient your franchise around a player
as opposed to like, here's how we play. Can you
fit into this? Yes, great, well we're willing to give
up a lot to get you. But it's more of
like a system or a team first approach as opposed
to you have Kobe, you have Jordan, you have whatever.
Cause that's different than when you think about like to
go way back, and it's like Magic and bird well,
like Magic was part of the showtime Lakers and made
that thing work, but like Kareem was there and they
had plenty of other great players, and they were defined by.
Speaker 4: A style to some extent.
Speaker 3: I think that's true of the Celtics and Bird and
then Jordan shows up and it's like, let's put him
on every commercial and every poster, and that changes how
we think about what an NBA team needs.
Speaker 4: First and foremost.
Speaker 3: And that theory is backed up by the fact that
just title winners always have a guy that's like at
that level.
Speaker 4: It's really interesting. I would find it refreshing.
Speaker 3: To think about a future of the NBA where it's like,
you still have your marquee stars, but it's it's just
as important that they can play like in a collective
as opposed to they just define who we are and
we just fit around them.
Speaker 4: That's interesting to me.
Speaker 3: I mean you might say, like I think Haliburton is
an example of that, and you've cited Steph too. It's
like you can you can describe them as scalable, which
you did and that's right. Or you can also say,
like they they don't define your system, they elevate it
like and they don't they don't take anything away from it.
You know, they're still the marquee guys, but it's not
like you don't we're not having this conversation if Tyrese,
Haliburton or Steph is the guy that is looking to
be traded. Giannis is a different sort like and a
lot most guys are a different sort at his level.
So yeah, it's interesting to think. I don't know what
the answer is. It's hard for me to believe the
NBA wants to move away from heliocentrism, just like for
market marketing purposes and other like it's easier to sell
fans on like look at what Huka did as opposed
to like look at how the Lakers run their offense.
Speaker 4: It's just it's it's different.
Speaker 2: It's and it's not even.
Speaker 1: So I do wonder the whole thing about the d
emphasis of the singular star.
Speaker 2: But I'm also coming at it from the.
Speaker 1: Perspective of is have we reached a bubble bursting point
of that heliocentrism extending to what you're willing to give
up to create it?
Speaker 2: Or further, it's where.
Speaker 1: The extension of it is the assets you gave up
to create this heliocentric system.
Speaker 2: And I'm just wondering.
Speaker 1: I it's kind of an analog for remember, going into
the offseason, we thought dearon Fox might be a Flashbowl
moment for the way that max contracts are negotiated, and
now it's kind of pivoted to everyone's really just look
at the trade values of Lamello, Trey Young, John Moran.
Even like LaMelo specifically, he's on the fun Max and
so it's if he doesn't have trade value now Like so,
I just feel like we're starting the league is starting
to reach a point where no, like stars are always
gonna drive the lea you want, you need that guy,
and yes, you're always gonna be willing to I'm not
even saying don't go out and trade for that guy.
But are the limits to what teams are willing to
give up for that guy in a trade?
Speaker 2: Are they now shrinking? And it's all going to be relative.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of this, As we said at
the top, Jannis's age, and so if Jannis was aged
twenty five and came on the trade market, it's different.
Those players don't come on the trade market ever. They
use sometimes they used to leave in free agency. That
doesn't happen anymore. And that's where I think this will
be a good case study because it's he's really good
He's also plays a game that I'm not saying it's
gonna age poorly, but it is predicated heavily on athleticism
and just being like a freak of nature on the court.
Speaker 2: I'm just curious. I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna be a no brainer for
teams to give up, and if you don't have a
lot to give up to begin with, I don't fault
teams for also thinking for even still drawing a line
in the sand to say, okay, cool, but is this
going to elevate our title odds for this season and
next season like five percent and then like it's just
over after that, versus we might still have outs if
we stick with what we have this while having a
five percent less chance this season the next to winning
the title. I think there's gonna be more to it.
Stars of a certain age, sure, so it's easy to
use that cop out, but I'm just I'm sort of wondering.
In general, there might always be the one guy that
you say, oh no, you give up whatever, and Giannis
might just be that guy. Yeah, And if I had
to predict, unless he really forces the issue, there's going
to be a team that just comes in and goes
like KaBlam, here's here's everything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 3: I just think like he's such an interesting player because objectively,
he's at like a let you know, he's a top
five guy, right, like it just has been top five
in MVP voting for seven years, first team All NBA
for what just he's just there. But he is like
a he he is hard to build around, like you
do that, So that complicates it a little bit. I
I wonder if like two things will be true. One is,
it's a bad idea to to basically mortgage your future
for an over thirty superstar that you think is gonna
you know, reorient your franchise and win you a title.
And two is teams are still gonna do that because
it's just it's like irresistible.
Speaker 4: It's a you know, we struggle with Anthony bas exactly.
Speaker 3: Anthony Davis was way younger than Yannis at the time
the Lakers got him, and they got him with the
idea of him being like a number two to Lebron,
which like he arguably was better than him in those finals,
he wasn't more important. Uh So Yannes is different in
that respect.
Speaker 1: I think is that this is almost the reverse because
now if you were doing it for Jannis, you could
even say, as the Bucks, if they had the opportunity
to trade for just name the player with what they have,
well we have Giannis.
Speaker 2: Yeah we're gonna do it. That's the Ad and Lebron situation.
Speaker 1: With this, it's short of the Spurs with wem Beach,
where you really think were the Lakers with Luca not
that they could get enough for Giannis. You can't say that,
what are the Hawks, Let's assume even keep Jayleen John
It's not oh like, yeah, we're gonna be this with Giannis.
There's only it's a lot easier when you're the team
that has Giannis to make the decision to trade for
that guy than if you're the team to me, just
because of the opportunity cost of trading for the guy
that is going to instantly become your Because who is
the team that trades for Giannis and the plan isn't
for him to be their best player during whatever their
title win it was, it's maybe san Antonio in the
list ends.
Speaker 3: There and that's a and that's a maybe right because
to me, like Wemby is more scalable, like you have
to orient more around Jannis than you do win point.
Maybe maybe so maybe that that just is gonna push
us into what we got to get to is just
not in broad strokes. We probably should talk about destinations potentially, right, like,
that's that's maybe where this needs to go.
Speaker 1: Do you have to do favor, Well, let's do let's
get let's just get this out of the way first.
I think we need to go through the greatest hits
or the most talked about.
Speaker 2: The Knicks are here.
Speaker 1: I don't see there's no just he's been linked to them,
which a kudos to the Knicks. They have Giannis for
questioning a trade to them. You could argue, this is
why you don't give up the boat for Michale Bridges,
or you could just say, well, they couldn't have known
this was gonna happen. I personally would be floored if
Joannis ended up with the Knicks, and I would be
even I will say, let's give that a sub one
percent chance. And then there's like a fraction of a ten,
like just a fraction of our fraction of a fraction
of a percent that if they traded for your honest
I would feel good about them winning the title during
that window because I don't know what they.
Speaker 2: Would be left with after the fact.
Speaker 1: And that's just a team where it's yeah, cool, you
were mentioned Jiannis thought he was gonna end up there,
and that is to what.
Speaker 2: You said earlier. I think was Janness probably thought a
lot of things that proved to be incorrect.
Speaker 4: So yeah, no, and the Nicks have to be mentioned.
Speaker 3: But just in passing because they can only trade first
round swaps, they're just the money is hard to make happen.
Speaker 2: It's just like the money's easy. What right.
Speaker 1: I what I will push back against for people this is, well,
the Bucks if they get Anonobi or kat and or
Bridges and so they could just trade those guys and
get more first round picks. You go spot that deal
for me, because what Milwaukee's not doing the leg work.
If that's what they want, they're gonna have New York
do it. And now you go out there and tell
me what are the teams that are coming in and
throwing picks for any one of these guys. And by
the way, this is how gamesmanship works. If you were
giving up a bunch of stuff to get McHale, Bridges,
or og Ananobi. You were on a similar timeline to
that of the Knicks, So why not just throw those
picks at Milwaukee to maybe try and get right right right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're here because Jake Fisher reported that Giannis thought
a deal was close over the summer, and because Giannis
seems to want to go there unless, I mean, how
messy does this? Like I said, the dynamics of the
Jannis Bucks relationship change dramatically if will have changed dramatically
if he winds up in New York, because it will
be the result of him saying I'm never playing for
you again, and I'm also never playing for anyone.
Speaker 4: But the Knicks may can happen like that's.
Speaker 2: Which that was just would be that would shock me.
Speaker 1: That's not that's going full, that's even going more James
Harden than James Harden.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, it's which. It's not gonna happen.
Speaker 3: Yiannis hasn't ever shown anything like a willingness to do that.
Speaker 2: So who's next up? Who do we need to who's
a team we need to talk?
Speaker 4: I think we should talk.
Speaker 3: We've kind of talked around Atlanta a little bit, so
let's talk about it. Atlanta they they can get it done.
I think without Jalen Johnson.
Speaker 4: I've seen hypothetical.
Speaker 3: Packages that that are built without Jalen Johnson going, which
is that means they're built around Trey Young, which is
another thing where it's like, all the Bucks can flip
him or he can keep them relevant for a while.
All Right, I guess that's all. But the Hawks can
do it right, like REESEA. Scha is in it, maybe
Daniels is in it. Just because Daniels and Giannis on
the same offense doesn't feel like sustainable.
Speaker 4: You can.
Speaker 3: I don't have the picks in front of me. The
Hawks are not like pick Rich, except they could dangle
that other You could basically guarantee the Bucks the really
high pick, as opposed to them probably getting one.
Speaker 1: Could they have just two top five picks if they
get if they get the Bucks commitment, the Hawks commitment,
which is, the Hawks get the better of New Orleans
or Milwaukee's pick, Milwaukee's getting the less favorable You're just
gonna have your own pick in New Orleans' pick.
Speaker 3: At the end of that, Yeah, you're getting the two
best of the three, basically, which could both be in
the top four.
Speaker 2: If one of them isn't in the top five. I
would go as far as to say that would be shocking.
Speaker 3: Right right, So I mean that's that's where the package starts,
is built around Young in that pick, I guess, and
then assuming like if you just don't believe Trey Young
is an integral piece of what the Hawks are doing,
which the last few weeks have shown, like I don't know,
the bottom line results are pretty similar with or without him,
then you add your honest to that Hawks team, like
I don't feel like that's they're They're like not, you know,
out of their depths trying to beat the Pistons or
the Knicks or the Calves like that. That team is
could come out of the East for sure. That's that's
totally on the table, even though we just spend a
bunch of time talking about how that type of trade
never gets you where you think it is.
Speaker 1: But so I'm wondering in the Hawks, could it be
unique because they have let's say this year's Bucks pick
or like just giving the Bucks that one. And there's,
by the way, the twenty twenty seven commitment where they
get the least favorable top four protective of Bucks or
new Orleans. Just having those two assets maybe ensures that
they don't have to give up as many of their
out year picks, which would be a big deal.
Speaker 2: I'm just I have two questions. Let's start with one
on the floor.
Speaker 1: Giannis and Jalen Johnson are an intuitive fit on the
offensive end.
Speaker 2: I want to make that clear. So if you're able
to keep Jalen Johnson, that's great.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about it defensively knowing that neither
like Jalen Johnson doesn't do the things that the big alongside.
Speaker 2: Giannis typically does.
Speaker 1: And so do you think that Yannis then slides into
that role or are you starting both of them with
are you keeping on Yekka Kungu when you're starting all
three of them or playing all three of them together?
Speaker 4: Is there?
Speaker 2: Am I over thinking a little bit?
Speaker 3: I think a healthy Porzingis does a decent Brook Lopez
like in terms of you're asking him to do two
things like be tall and drop coverage and shoot threes.
Speaker 1: So was the idea then to play though Giannis, Jalen
Johnson and a big is what?
Speaker 3: I don't think that's a bad fit. I mean it
makes it. It requires a little bit of work. From
both from really all three defensively, but I think a
Coong wus find a slot in there in different combinations.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't. I mean, I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't have a real problem with fit wise there.
I don't think, you know, you have.
Speaker 1: To change a lot, just just to be clear, not
not offensively.
Speaker 3: Yeah, defensively, and you don't want to count on porzingis
I guess?
Speaker 4: And then.
Speaker 3: I know I don't really have too many concerns there. Defensively,
I think offensively that this guy's the limit with that group.
Speaker 1: Potentially I lied and still have two questions, But let's
start with this the first of two. Does the way
that de Jonte Murray trade ended up kind of biting
the Hawks make them hesitant to I know that de
Jonta Murray's not Yannis, but just looking at how that
panned out, do they hesitant at all to include just
X amount of fur? Like they still owe first round
picks themselves to say it.
Speaker 3: I don't know that that trade specifically makes them hesitant.
I think maybe if they are hesitant more broadly, it's
because like they're gonna they look around at themselves and say, like,
we got this pick coming from the Pelicans, we like
our young core. Jannie is injured now, and like, what
can we just say Giannis will not be better going
forward than he's been in the past.
Speaker 4: Like that seems a reason.
Speaker 2: You're not saying he's gonna make the next seven first team?
Speaker 3: Right? So, like, if you're the Hawks, you could conceivably say, like,
you know what, we're good, Like you really could?
Speaker 4: I think it now, I don't know maybe if.
Speaker 1: They else, I'm gonna interject because that dovetails with my
final question. Okay, what if the Bucks come in and
say we're not doing this deal without Jalen Johnson in it?
I mean, this is why the question we just spent
thirty forty minutes, right.
Speaker 3: I I yeah, I think like because Johnson is just
on such a bargain and is more scalable and is
going to have a longer runway obviously, could couldn't you
see the Hawks in that situation again saying like, no, no, thanks,
we're good?
Speaker 1: I think because if you're the Hawks, isn't at this
point aren't you viewing if you're getting honest the intent? Okay,
he's going to be our best player, isn't it supposed
to be the weld Jalen Johnson's than our second best player.
Speaker 2: It's not we're trying to pair Giannis with Trey Young.
Speaker 1: I don't think even if Trey Young is not part
of the trade, because by the way, the Bucks have
so many different like you could get there without Jalen
Johnson or Trey Young with the salaries that Milwaukee could
have to offer. So if you have to give up challenge,
maybe if they're saying we don't want any of these picks,
which I can't imagine, but I'm not.
Speaker 4: The picks would be like the first thing they should
be asking for.
Speaker 1: It feels like to me, I think, yeah, Milwaukee from
Atlanta specifically, you get into a different conversation with other
teams because if you're Milwaukee and it's well, we don't
have control over our picks beyond beyond a good pick
this coming season, what do we do? So Yeah, if
I'm Atlanta, I'm not because the fury to me would be,
what's the point of going quote unquote all in for
Jhannas if we don't still have Jalen Johnson after.
Speaker 3: They're interestingly like the perfect test for the question you're
asking about, like is it worth it? To kind of
mess up a pretty deep, interesting team that's young and flexible.
Speaker 2: Not at the contender level yet, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, by just saying like, okay, now we're built around
Giannis and we'll see what happened.
Speaker 4: Like that, they are they're a really great test case.
Speaker 2: For that, do you know, while also might be a
good test case for that, though a little.
Speaker 1: Different because they have, if he's healthy, one of the
five best players in the league. San Antonio Spurs. I
think these are the two teams where it's because Atlanta.
I'm curious if Atlanta, let's just say Atlanta had all
their own picks, but they didn't have like the Bucks
one slash the Ones one. I wonder if they would
be mentioned as right he because he's a good fit
on the roster with a lot of the pieces they have.
But the Spurs, I digress. How do you feel about
Giannis and Wemby together, Grant? Are you terrified if you're
a fan they?
Speaker 3: I guess it's making me remember how long this whole
Yiannis thing's been going on, because I definitely like wrote
multiple Yannis to the Spurs is my favorite hypothetical last
year and over the summer.
Speaker 4: So I do.
Speaker 3: I'd like it a lot, and it has my attention
and I'm interested in it. I don't think there's a
major fit issue there because Wemby is able to shoot
the basketball and can do so much defensively that it's like,
oh well, if his offensive usage is lower, it's not
like his value is gone. It's just like maybe the
opposite if he if you have a lower usage Wemby,
maybe he's even better on defense.
Speaker 4: Like right, like, there's nothing what does he take?
Speaker 3: What is Giannis taking away from Wemby other than the
agency to like just try a bunch of shit on
offense for for you know, for another couple formative years, which, like,
to be honest, like hasn't gone great. If there's a
knock on on what's happened prior to injury with Wemby,
is that like the Spurs kind of had the reins
a little too loose to start the year and like
the turnovers were high.
Speaker 2: No, that's what they supposed to do.
Speaker 3: No, it's fine. I'm just saying it's fine. I think
I would have done it too. It's just like, Okay,
we got a sense.
Speaker 2: Now like maybe Wemby can be a one B for
a little bit while we get our guards to develop
and then just be the best defensive player on the planet.
Speaker 4: And that's fine.
Speaker 3: I don't think Yannis really Giannest is fit there, depending
on what the Spurs would have to give up, specifically
with their younger guards, Like I'd be more concerned about
how he would minimize or fit with some of those
guys than with Wemby.
Speaker 4: I have no concerns there.
Speaker 1: I but you mentioned it as the Bucks, like, the
Spurs can give up a bunch of picks, but is
it you're only giving up one of Stefan Castle or
Dylan Harper if the Bucks come back and ask for two,
or what would you and what would you prefers? The
Spurs say, would you rather have some picks left in
the bank because Dearon Fox is on the roster, so hey,
let's yeah, let's like if they said, I don't know
to first and Dylan Harper and Steph Castle, do you
just all have some first round picks left over?
Speaker 2: And Diaron foxes here, let's.
Speaker 1: Let's go do this, or is the more preferable route
We'd rather give up picks and be able to hang
on to one of Harper and Door castle, I.
Speaker 3: Think you might rather give up picks because you know
you're gonna be so good like and that doesn't even
depend on Giannis, right, like Giannis can give you zero,
and because you have Wemby and you keep those young
guards like basically all of whom.
Speaker 4: I like, I would say, your own picks aren't that valuable.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna catch it for this, I would probably if
I could save picks.
Speaker 2: Well, both of them is the question.
Speaker 1: But like the Steph Castle Yannis fit is weird, especially
with Diarron Fox folded into.
Speaker 3: Their castle, is the one I'd give up first obviously, Well,
if I if you could trade, if Fox could be
the salary ballast, like, would you consider that. I don't
know if the Bucks that have any interest in that,
but because you'd want the younger guys on rookie deals.
Speaker 2: But like it could say, if.
Speaker 1: You're also getting picks, they could say, well, we're just
we're gonna get these picks and then we're still gonna
try to compete. I also don't think the Aaron Fox
is single handedly ruining any tanking efforts.
Speaker 4: Probably nobbrobably not.
Speaker 2: The Bucks also should not be tanking beyond this seasons.
Speaker 3: Well it's it's just interesting to think about because if
you move Fox, it's kind of the same issue that
has been like back of mind for a while, like
is he really the guy you want to take your
shot on as like a max next to Wenby? You
get like a do over here because you add Giannis
into that space and then maybe you have room for
a third guy that isn't Fox with the flexibility you
add I don't know.
Speaker 1: You are you are betting at that point though, that
Dylan Harper is going to be for.
Speaker 3: Sure Yeah ready today basically, which is like kind of
an unfair bet to make. Yeah, if you add Giannis
you should probably you're trying to win the title now,
so maybe Fox.
Speaker 4: You shouldn't think about giving up Fox.
Speaker 1: And I think with this around half hazardly and I
know he's not dealing with anything chronic, but it's no
like you maximize the like Wemby is healthy now or
you don't. And as we're recording this is actually not
he's what is he going to be? Ten absence is
deep by the time this releases, So yeah, I think
you have have to keep Fox as the spurs. I
also don't know how much interest the Bucks would have
as part of it, right, It's the question would be
it's just like how many picks does it take if
you're trading one of Harper and Castle? And it's like
that might be the is this the team to where
it's well, this is kind of where the over under
of picks is set on a Giannis trade?
Speaker 2: Is it three and a half? Is that too high?
Are you going over under on that?
Speaker 3: I just it's so hard to know because you know,
you've got the Durant deal as one example, and then
I don't know what to do with the Bain deal
just because that was so many picks for a guy
that's just not on Gianni's level. And like, if you're
the Bucks, aren't you just saying.
Speaker 4: Like, look look at that. This is what this guy's worth.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: In return, though they gave up some bad money and
they gave up zero, you're getting a Steph Castle and
or Dylan Harper.
Speaker 2: They didn't send out any prospects.
Speaker 1: Yeah, on that it was maybe mixed with it's the
nix with bridges to where I'm not that was still
an overpay. But the reason so many picks were included
is they included zero usable players.
Speaker 3: Sure, so you can swap in the young your guys
you're talking about, And maybe three and a half is
about the right number of at the over under for picks,
because if Castle and Harper are both in it, that's
that's too like unprotected first essentially, right, Like that's that's
what they're worth.
Speaker 1: They're both in It'm it better be the under of
picks otherwise that's wow.
Speaker 2: Like if if the Bucks.
Speaker 1: Get both of those guys and then even three to
four first round picks, I'll go as low as three
I would.
Speaker 2: It sounds stupid to say that's insane, but it's not.
We just had this conversation.
Speaker 4: I know, I know it's hard.
Speaker 3: It's not a fair question because the offers would be different.
But between the Spurs and the Hawks, which of the
two do you think feels like they could is more
likely to say, like, we're we're actually good. We don't
we don't really have an offer for you.
Speaker 4: Ooh.
Speaker 1: I think it's the Hawks, and I think it might
just be more out of pure hesitance m rather than
the and they.
Speaker 4: Got that pick, they got the lottery ticket.
Speaker 2: They have that pick.
Speaker 1: But it's you kind of mentioned this when you were
talking about the Hawks, where do you rank Atlanta in
the championship contender pecking order after they get Yannis? Whatever
permutation we build with the Spurs, as long as Wenby
is just still there, you're probably vaulting them into what
the top five teams?
Speaker 3: Right you're with You're with Houston and Denver like right
there with you.
Speaker 2: You're in that ZAR for sure.
Speaker 3: And you're also in the unique position of being able
to say, like, we present the Thunder a problem they
may not be able to solve because we have Wemby, Like,
that's that's an interesting spot to be.
Speaker 1: Which which team do you think has Does that mean
the Spurs have more incentive to go for it than
the Hawks? Says You could look at it and say, well,
San Antonio has their best guy already, right and Atlanta doesn't,
So should they be more desperate for Yannis? And I
still think the answer is just the Spurs should be
more desperate to win with Wemby than the Hawks at
taking sort of a stab in the dark with Giannis,
Jalen Johnson and guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's way easier to justify a move if you
can say we don't need Giannis to be our best player.
It's it's almost like a luxury, you know. I think
I think that makes the Spurs the pick.
Speaker 1: Can I do a team that won't be involved? But
I want to do a thought exercise for you? Yes, please,
which team can have the best Giannis offer?
Speaker 2: The Spurs, the Thunder or the Hawks.
Speaker 1: If the Thunder aren't gonna go after Jannis, and by
the way, they shouldn't we just we Honestly the whole
discussion we just had, it would be malpractice for for OKAC.
Speaker 2: To do that.
Speaker 1: But does okay see The question is is OKAYC still
have the best possible trade package for Jannis or because
you know that J dub and Chet and SGA of
course wouldn't be in it. Does that sort of open
the door to Atlanta with giving the Bucks? Excuse me,
giving the Bucks? Yeah, though those that pick or two
or the Spurs with the young guys that they do
have to give up an edition of Picks? Does that
if OKAYC wanted to get involved but said, hey, J
Dub and Chet Homegrinner off limits, have we found the
recipe for beating an okay See trade off?
Speaker 4: I mean, so the.
Speaker 3: OKAC offer would have to be built around the Clippers
pick picks, I guess pick and swap and what they
have the top four protected sixers pick. They have the
top eight protected jazz pick, both in the immediate future.
So maybe you just overwhelm the Bucks with like sheer
volume you.
Speaker 1: Do your out years like twenty thirty and thirty two,
because then it's oh, Yiannis is what age?
Speaker 4: Is he?
Speaker 2: What ages? So you would have to do something like that.
Speaker 3: Probably, Yeah, does that I don't know if that's gonna
be the Clippers pick this year. That's still just not
more valuable than the pick Atlanta could send the you know,
the New Orleans Milwaukee one, I don't think, because you're
getting two cracks at it that way as the Bucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, like in terms of like crown jewel asset, I
think maybe Atlanta has the best. Is that fair to
say Atlanta has the best thing you can offer.
Speaker 2: Realistically the best singular thing for sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it's I mean, maybe this is what it's all
been leading up to. This is why the Thunder been
hoarding all these picks or something like this. But like,
I don't I don't know if I'm it's it's a
volume question like, do you want the singular best asset
or do you want like the third, fifth, seventh, ninth, twelve,
fourteenth best assets.
Speaker 1: It's just stupid that we're having this conversation about a
team that has lost one game.
Speaker 4: This is do they need Giannis?
Speaker 2: Is there any other teams that you think?
Speaker 1: I think there's probably one that we have to talk
about right in the half two category?
Speaker 2: Or no? Are you already out?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: I'd say there's two more. I'm curious who you think
the half too is? Is Golden State a have to?
Speaker 1: No, but let's make them a have to shocker you brought.
I just spent the whole time on it.
Speaker 2: I totally get where you go.
Speaker 4: I thought I thought you were gonna bring him up yourself.
Speaker 3: I mean, like, what does this look like? Is this
is this Jimmy Butler is the matching salary?
Speaker 4: I guess?
Speaker 3: And why do the Bucks want Jimmy Butler?
Speaker 2: Well they could just trade him for other picks gran Yeah, So.
Speaker 3: Then then this is immediately a third teamer because, like
you said, with the Knicks, the Bucks are like you
figure this out, Warriors, where's he going?
Speaker 4: Not here?
Speaker 3: So find your third team that wants Jimmy Butler at
this money, which your last trade deadline suggests that there
aren't a whole lot that are going to work, both
for him or for the team.
Speaker 4: Is Draymond.
Speaker 3: I don't think the Warriors are going to trade Draymond,
Like I just I just don't think, not because they shouldn't,
but just because they they will never do it. So
then that is just Jimmy.
Speaker 2: He also does it. He'll also do a lot of
stuff on defense that maybe Yan like if Janis wants
the fit is awful Jannis and Draymond. For sure, I
was gonna say, defensively, it's not is it.
Speaker 4: No, it's fine defensively.
Speaker 3: Offensively, it's just the only way they've figured out how
to make Draymond valuable on offense is to give him
the ball, and like you're not giving him the ball
over Yannis, and so he's just what he's standing.
Speaker 1: So the baseline, but let's say they were able to
find something for Butler, but like their baseline offer right
now is kaminga pods and like they can conditionally trade
for first round picks this season twenty eight, the front
like the better part of the twenty thirty thirty and
then twenty thirty two swaps in there that is the
meat and potato then plus what are you getting for that?
And you're taking back Kyle Kuzma, like because you're him
and Kamena.
Speaker 2: Let's say basically a wash salary.
Speaker 1: Wise, probably it would come down to who's giving you
what for Jimmy Butler. I don't have the faintest idea
you could find a team, but it's like, what is
the team that's okay, yeah, we'll give We'll give you
even a furt like are you getting two for Jimmy Butler?
Still really good? But what team is giving you one?
Two first round picks for Jimmy Butler? So two that
you can get Yannis Atten to.
Speaker 4: Kumbo right right right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's this one's kind of doa It's almost like
a knick situation the pick. There's more picks to be
traded and more like movable salary. But it's this will
not happen unless.
Speaker 1: Situations where you're trying to find the middle ground with Giannis,
where do the Bucks have to do right by Giannis?
And as an organization at this point, I'm looking out
for myself. But if you're trying to do the middle
ground because the Warriors can trade so many picks and
you get pads and kaminga. Maybe that's a team you
will want to talk to. And you're hoping Jimmy Butler
to or you're saying, we don't have her own picks.
Let's hope Jimmy Butler turns into a maniac for the
rest of the season and the team wants to give
up a bunch of stuff for him this summer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean highly unlikely, more likely than
the Knicks, but that's not saying anything.
Speaker 4: I'm curious who you think that the must talk about is.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm surprised that you didn't have them, but Houston,
do you still not view them as a team that
we must talk about.
Speaker 4: I'm well, make the case because they're not quite on
the good and they don't care.
Speaker 3: They've figured out how to not have spacing be important,
so if anyone can fit him, it's them.
Speaker 4: Is that the dad.
Speaker 1: I reach the point to where, even if it was
they could sub out Giannis for Kevin Durant, they wouldn't
do it because of just the way that their team
is built.
Speaker 3: I think you probably rather have you, honest, I think,
than Kevin in a vacuum. But I'm just how does
that work?
Speaker 2: Well? I mean that you could fill.
Speaker 1: Into but they do if they wanted to say, hey,
Fred van Fleet once he's trade eligible. The Reed Shepherd's
kind of the young guy that because Jabari Smith Junior
is poison pilled, you're not trading Ahmed Thompson.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you really wanted, if you were looking,
if we're talking about young players who you think could
anchor the face of your future, keeping competitive now but
be around for a long time.
Speaker 4: Young Turkeys players. Yeah, is it?
Speaker 2: Is it alprin Shangoon?
Speaker 1: If they say hey, we want alprin Shangoon and fill
it out from there?
Speaker 2: Is Houston hanging up?
Speaker 3: I don't think they're hanging up, but it is interesting.
I think it might just be a no eventually, right,
like just cause it's the same thing with I don't know,
the sort of a a more serious version of the
Jalen Johnson thing of like, I don't know what you
think the next five years look like for both of
these guys, for Shangoon versus Gianness, Like in terms of
games played, I know who I'm betting on in terms
of peak performance it's obviously honest, but like how often
are you getting that in.
Speaker 4: Terms of fit?
Speaker 3: Like Shangoon has managed to fit, and like that was
a concern, right, Like can he is this gonna work
in Houston?
Speaker 4: With him?
Speaker 2: He'll probably make an All NBA team right now the season,
right right right, So.
Speaker 3: Like the gap is there's still a gap, Like Shannggoon
is not Yannis, but he's probably better than Jalen Johnson.
I mean, well, yeah, I think he is. But I
could imagine Houston just given the contract that Shangun is
on too. Like that's another similarity with Johnson where it's
like how did they do this?
Speaker 1: Does is there a point though, where it's the Bucks
would be willing to accept so few picks that Houston
would almost have to go Like what if they just
said we want shang Gun read Shepherd, make the money work,
give us one first round pick, so.
Speaker 3: You leave with you're built around then Amen Thompson, Jannis,
kd Jabari Smith kd Jabari Smith. That's pretty interesting. I
feel like how I just completely forget Kevin Durant after
you just mentioned him, Like who else is even on
this team?
Speaker 1: I don't think they're a real suitor for Janness anymore
for the KD trade. And I don't think they need
to be, but it would be are they having a conversation.
Speaker 2: They're probably having a conversation.
Speaker 4: I think so.
Speaker 3: I think they're having conversation and they probably like, look,
when they they targeted, they they went for Durant and
like they could have kept the powder dry if they
had wanted to, And and I think they decided like
not only is Durant like a superstar upgrade, not on
Yanni's level anymore, but like he he makes sense here
where like you can't really say with a straight face, no,
Yannis makes sense in Houston, like beyond he's a good player,
This is a good team. Figure it out, Like Durant
provides what the Rockets didn't have in a lot of ways,
and Yannis kind of doesn't do that.
Speaker 4: I don't think. No, I'm with you.
Speaker 1: Who was your So we've that's all the must twos, right,
there's not I mean the team we could man Jine,
if the Lakers just built something around Austin Reeves and
whatever picks they can give up, that's even if is
that even a middle ground offer or no, as the
Bucks that's not I'm not taking off on the Bucks.
Speaker 2: I'll say that flat out. But you know, you don't
know your own picks, and the Lakers are giving you some.
Speaker 3: From the Lakers' perspective, that's one where they're a cap
their position to be a cap space team, and maybe
they're just thinking, why are we giving up anything?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 4: Like, isn't there the summer.
Speaker 2: Twenty honest Lebron is no trade close?
Speaker 4: Yeah? No, no, no, they could just wait it out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jannis has a player option for twenty seven to
twenty eight. If he doesn't sign an extension, any place
can opt out after next year.
Speaker 2: Free agency becoming cool. But yeah, I don't like, Yeah.
Speaker 4: The Lakers are gonna sign the guy. Yeah, I don't
know about that.
Speaker 3: The team I was gonna mention is Miami just because
like they could they have. I don't know you could
build it around I don't think you wanna, well, do
you or don't you want to build it around Bam
because wouldn't the idea be to borrow those two together?
Speaker 2: If you're the Bucks, you want Bam.
Speaker 3: Versus hero kololware and other stuff and picks.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'm assuming I'm probably asking for other
stuff too, but the the actual trade seems like it
would be Hero kohlil Ware, Casper's jackacionnas Is being thrown
in there other money and then picks Yeah.
Speaker 3: But then then the reason I ask like, should it
or shouldn't be built around BAM, Like I don't love
the Bam Jannis fit at all. Get I guess BAM
shoots threes now, Yeah, so that's a little different than
it's been in the past. But and then defensively that's
gonna work fine because BAM can defend.
Speaker 2: Maybe Yannis might have certain defensive limitations. BAM just doesn't anymore.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: And Miami, you know, maybe we've moved past the phase
of this would be another great test of like Miami
is kind of defined by a system now, and I
do think driving in space in isolation pretty good setup.
Speaker 4: So this would be like this would be that you
get to have it both ways.
Speaker 3: You get the ceiling raising superstar that fits what you're doing, but.
Speaker 1: Then you're just like that's it because like the heat
aren't super asset rich to begin with, So there are
another team to where it's is. Because honestly, would if
you had to give up just money and maybe the
Heats players are too valuable to ask this question. But
if you could give up just money for the Heat
to take a flyer on Zion this year versus having
to give up everything that's not but Bam to get Yannis,
what's the direction that's that you want for?
Speaker 3: Isn't that fun to have Zion in space just attacking
like when he's able to.
Speaker 1: And it's again Yiannis, way more reliable, way better.
Speaker 2: But you're giving up nothing.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of the Heats matching salary though, and it's
just it would never be nothing.
Speaker 2: It would.
Speaker 3: And Wiggins is valuable to them, and then I mean
it might even have to be I forget is it
Hero and Wiggins? You probably you definitely don't do that
for Zion. Although Zion has the non guarantee thing right
like you, you do get to treat it like a
like a just the freebie for you know, you see
what it looks like if you want to, and if
it does if you don't like it, yeah, well we
took a shot at it. We still have Bam and
all our picks and stuff.
Speaker 1: I think it Jannis and Bam would be fascinating, But
then it's you still. The way they're playing offense, I
guess they don't. The whole point is to not need
the guy that you know we've sort of referenced. But
I would just wonder what does that offense age like
in the playoffs, because we haven't seen it yet. For
I'm in the playoffs, I'd be curious to see what
it does look like.
Speaker 3: Be nice to have you honest if you weren't super
confident your scheme was gonna work.
Speaker 2: Though.
Speaker 1: The one of the other teams that I wondered if
they deserve to mention Detroit, he kind of he's at
the position where you could argue they need the upgrade,
but I'm not sure that he does enough of what
you want at that position. At the same time, Jannis
and Kate and I like, I don't know who's left over.
I'm assuming Milwaukee won't want much of Duran because of
how much he's gonna cost, and he sort of feels
like his leap is he's valuable when you already have
the guy around him.
Speaker 2: So Milwaukee doesn't have the guy.
Speaker 1: I don't know what Jalen durnamy'sm So you're looking at
Ron Holland, Asar Thompson and Picks.
Speaker 2: Is this just as John's not check enough of their boxes?
Speaker 1: If you're Detroit or you investigating it, because that's a
hell of a trio.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what's the what's the mark he asket? Going back?
Speaker 3: Is it Thompson or because like what Picks.
Speaker 2: Thompson and then it's it's Picks in Holland.
Speaker 4: Is that Thompson just.
Speaker 3: Isn't the best guy though, right, like he's I love
Thompson as a sub elementary piece and let and you know,
maybe this is true for both Thompson's like until the
shooting or I guess I should say, unless the shooting
comes around, They're just not You're they can't be a
centerpiece like for it for this kind.
Speaker 4: Of deal, I don't think.
Speaker 3: I imagine people feel a little bit differently about Amen
versus a SAR, but I don't know that they should.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't love the Detroit fit.
Speaker 3: I I I think like, because if I'm Milwaukee, I
do want Duran in the deal, and I'm prepared to
pay him. But then like you're right, who's I guess
Ryan Rollins and Jalen Duran, let's go, Let's go into
the future boldly together like, that's that's kind of fun,
but like, how good are you really with those two guys?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Another team that could be semi interesting? There was one
more that So I'm just asking questions here. I want
to make that clear. What if the Pacers they're putting
just all the picks on the table, including this year's
to Milwaukee, And so the theory would be, what do
we have to do to make it work so that
it's Tyree's how Albert and Pascal Siakam and and Yannis?
Speaker 2: Next season?
Speaker 4: Man? What's that money look?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 4: Where's that? I mean?
Speaker 2: Top in and Emhard is going out? You have Matt.
Speaker 3: You could really give the Bucks like I mean, I
I think that the Pacers supporting cast is very competent
and generally like fairly paid. You could just give the
Bucks all those guys. This is the ultimate you. You
keep trying to do this, you, this is the ultimate
test of like do you disrupt a system to add
a superstar?
Speaker 1: Would you consider building something around Passcal for Yannis so
that you have Tyre and Giannis instead of Passcal and honest?
Speaker 2: Next season?
Speaker 3: Man, I don't know. I don't want to mess with
the Pacers in that way.
Speaker 1: Right, it's also tough without knowing what they're like. Tyr's
Halburt is gonna look like too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean in one sense, I keep saying like
this disrupts the whole deal. But like part of why
I like Haliburton so much is like, if he's just
playing off of Yiannis, I think he's close to as
valuable as he is in his or was in.
Speaker 4: His role last year.
Speaker 3: So it's not it's not quite as like it doesn't
up end the whole thing quite the same way. Siakam,
just like Sacam, is also so scalable though, and so
and can do so many different things. I think like
if I knew Haliburton was gonna if you could promise
me Haliburton was just gonna be exactly as good as
he was, then maybe you do that because you can
figure out the rotation. In other ways, you just replenish
your depth somehow, and Giannis gives you a higher ceiling
than Siakam does. But that's I don't know that I'm
having a hard.
Speaker 4: Time trading honest anywhere. Is we're literally what this keeps
coming back to?
Speaker 2: Could I continue just asking questions?
Speaker 4: Please?
Speaker 1: Is Toronto off the table? If Scottie Barnes is involved,
how are you.
Speaker 3: What do you what are the Bucks looking at and
saying we get we wall the picks?
Speaker 2: And then do you want? You want Jacob Puddle? Do
you want RJ? Barrett em Manuel quickly brandon Ingram of
course is there?
Speaker 3: I think I need Barnes if I'm the Bucks, and
I'm just like not that interested if he's not in it.
Speaker 1: To be clear, I will heartily agree. Is Scotty Barnes
off the table if you're in Toronto?
Speaker 2: Hmm?
Speaker 4: I don't know if he should be.
Speaker 3: I really I think I think Scotty Barnes has a
good shot at all defense and all.
Speaker 1: He's like in my kind of the nine ten range
on my MVP ballot right now.
Speaker 2: So I might just be a little bit too. Yeah,
but I'm sort of just again, what is the messiu?
Jerry's gone too? And so if that's if the ties
with Giannis was a big part of that, I don't
know if he's gonna like if that's gonna help you there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and does Giannis on that team?
Speaker 4: How good are the Raptors? Are they? You know?
Speaker 3: Does that make them? They're definitely better than Detroit and
Cleveland like and these I mean probably on pay like
their championship odds would definitely be right there with those
teams or above them.
Speaker 1: But some of these teams become much more interesting if
the Bucks have their own picks, because they might just
be interested in the idea of let's overload us with
picks and we'll take salary back. It doesn't need to
have a tent pole youngster, but even with a good
twenty twenty six pick expected to be in their clip,
they kind of have to think it through it in
terms of, Okay, we need someone to look at as
they're good now, but they might still be around to
be able to headline things in the future, co headline things.
Yeah right, are you at all if you're Memphis investigating?
Speaker 2: Is it John Moran? Is it Jared Jackson Junior? And picks?
Speaker 4: Memphis does have picks now some of the.
Speaker 2: Is it Cedric Cowherd and picks? Does that get the
Bucks's attention? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Right? The thing is like a lot of it rests.
Speaker 3: I don't know if the idea from Memphis perspective would
have to be Jackson and Jannis together, So I don't
think Jackson's in this deal and that means like Morant
probably is and that might just be I'm sure there
are teams that are just like, no, not interested. But
I guess if you package, if Coward's in it, and
there's a pick or two or three, that's.
Speaker 4: The other thing.
Speaker 3: If you include Moran, does that mean you have to
add more picks?
Speaker 4: Like? Yeah, like is that where they are?
Speaker 1: I'm not viewing him as a negative asset, but it's
not Oh, You're getting Moran and one pick and that's enough, right, Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Moran in theory, is someone that if
this is the other the core question is like, what
do the Bucks want out of this?
Speaker 4: If they want a hard reset?
Speaker 3: If so, then morent is not something you're interested in.
But if it's we would like some butts in seats
and we would like, you know, to be entertaining. In theory,
Moran could do that. But maybe that's the thing. Like
the reason we're even discussing him is because nobody's sure
that that guy is there anymore.
Speaker 4: I Yeah, I don't know what is this? Is this
a just asking questions or is there a part of
this fit that you actually like?
Speaker 1: I mean him and charn Jackson Junior will be fire.
But I just this doesn't seem like a Memphis Grizzlies thing.
What do you make of the Calves always get thrown
around here to where because they can trade like some
first round equity down the line. But are you including
who's off limits in a trade for Yannis from the Calves?
Would be it's the real question here.
Speaker 3: I mean, so the thing that gets this done is
MOBILEI and I just like the idea, similar to Memphis
with Jackson is like, wouldn't don't you just if you're Cleveland?
Aren't you only doing this because you think Jiannis and
Mobley could get you over the top.
Speaker 1: So I guess I don't think that Jannis is a Yannis,
that Evan Mobley is a glorified role player.
Speaker 3: So that's with the pendulum has swung way too far,
way too fast on on MOBILEI.
Speaker 4: I think maybe would you, I'd be.
Speaker 3: More inclined, and Jared Allen would probably just need to
go in a separate deal, I think, because I don't
know why the Bucks would have interest there. I could
get behind Garland being in it just just because you
get rid of the too small guard thing and you've
got plenty of questions about Garlands Durabil At this point.
Speaker 1: I just Garland, Alan and a first like the first
round pick that they could trade swaps throw in there is.
I don't think it's an you'd need like a team
to really overload the bucks with first round picks for
Garland and or Alan.
Speaker 4: Ye there, yeah, there's no way that's your The best
offer would you.
Speaker 2: Do if you're Cleveland, Mobley in a first round pick
for you, honest?
Speaker 4: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: Just Mobley straight up for honest.
Speaker 4: I mean you probably have to, but I don't.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't feel good about it because because the Calves
are trying to win right now, and it's nice that
Mobley has a long runway and we'll be good for
a long time. But is Yiannis better than Evan Mobley today?
I think so, and probably next year and then after
that who knows. But I think I think if the
Calves are all in, then you do you do that
again with reservations.
Speaker 1: I have one final one before we get to stat
padding with a special guest, and this is this is
really just asking questions and one of one part of
it's only feasible when we get to the summer.
Speaker 2: Do you see where I'm going with this.
Speaker 3: No, I'm excited to get there with you.
Speaker 2: If you're the Magic, do you think like, what if?
Speaker 1: Do you think about if it's just Franz Wagner or
Palo Bank Caro Free honest.
Speaker 3: Hmmm, I think about it. I definitely think about it.
Speaker 2: I'm having conversations. I don't.
Speaker 1: By the way, the Magic are not better off without
bang Carow is currently constructed.
Speaker 3: I want to make that you're clearly not getting caught
up in the wave of.
Speaker 1: I'm just laughing because it's Oh, Palo's coming back and
the Magic were just top ten in offense and defense
the past ten games. Do you know what they were
in the previous seven games before he got injured? Grant
top ten defense.
Speaker 4: It's just I'm just are you ready for the ball
to stop all the time again?
Speaker 3: Dan?
Speaker 4: Is that what you're excited to watch with the Orlando Magic? Great?
Good good night.
Speaker 2: So you think they're better without Palo, No, I don't.
Speaker 4: I think that's pentagon too far.
Speaker 3: I'm more open to that idea than I am to
the Evan Mobley's trash idea that that has gotten way
out of hand.
Speaker 4: But I don't believe that either.
Speaker 1: This is all sort of just to say that there's
probably only a handful of teams that makes sense for
the Bucks. And how do you see this ending? Do
you think he gets traded? We both thinks he gets traded.
Do you think it's gonna be mid season? Do you
think it's gonna be after the fact.
Speaker 3: That I'm gonna guess he does. Joannis does get traded,
and it does happen this season, even though it's just
harder to do now than it would have been last summer,
and it's probably harder than it'll be next summer. I
just think we've had enough laps of the same thing
and everybody's gonna want to just get it done. That's
my that's my gut right now.
Speaker 2: What do you think I think it's gonna get done? Yeah,
maybe this season.
Speaker 1: It's gonna get done before next season, and I think
it should be the Spurs. I think there's gonna be
other teams that are just like in Atlanta, might be
a little trigger shy there, and I don't see the
popular teams he would really have to force his way,
like the Knicks. I know that he thought a deal
was happening which is notable, but also I just don't
don't see it. It's to me, it's just based off
where the Rockets and Thunder are in their competitive timelines.
I view this as almost as like, oh, it's the
Spurs or the Hawks, right, this is it?
Speaker 4: Those would be the two.
Speaker 3: If you gave me those two versus the field, I
would take those two. If you said pick one that,
I'm not sure, but those two feel like it's just
that's why we started with them. Those are the most logical.
They've got what it would take. They're roughly, although slightly
differently in the spot where yeah, the swing like this
kind of makes sense. So I think it's them or
I don't know. If it were a third team, I
would I'm ready to be surprised.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the next be honest, it's stat padding time,
special stat padding. For anyone listening or watching on YouTube,
we would like to officially introduce you to Hardwood Knox's
social media video editor, extraordinary mister Andrew Willett. Follow him
on the social machines links from the podcast YouTube description
or just at the AC will it twenty two? That's
at the AC w I L L E T t
A twenty two.
Speaker 2: Go follow him on all the socials. Andrew, you've been doing.
Speaker 1: Great work for us up on the tiktoks and the
YouTube shorts and the ig reels.
Speaker 2: How are you doing, sir?
Speaker 5: Doing great? I actually I want to know how more
than anything, how Grant's doing.
Speaker 4: I was just enjoying, like somebody else has to feel
this one. I hate this.
Speaker 3: Question so much. I never know what to say. Now
you get it right, What do you say?
Speaker 2: What do you say? I don't know?
Speaker 4: Fine? Fine, Dan, We're both fine.
Speaker 2: I apologize for caring. Guys, I'm just thank you.
Speaker 4: It's been a while, It's been a long time coming.
Speaker 1: So we get to do triple like three people working well,
two people working through a guest, a player from the
third person.
Speaker 2: This is a special.
Speaker 1: Episode of stat Padding, But we wanted to ask you
just based off your background, Andrew, do you havent do
you have any NBA allegiances?
Speaker 2: Is it looks like you might be a Bucks fan
behind you that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the past twenty four or forty eight hours has
been really upsetting for me as a No.
Speaker 3: I'm a huge Celtics fan. I have been since the
twenty ten finals. So who is your who's your guy?
Speaker 4: Is it Tatum?
Speaker 5: Jalen Brown's my favorite Celtics full?
Speaker 4: Oh excellent? I love it.
Speaker 5: Grew up a huge Rondo fan. Huh, and you're gonna
love this. Grant Steph Curry has been my favorite player
for several years.
Speaker 4: You're only human? What other choices there?
Speaker 2: Now? Where does Jordan Walsh rank on this scal for you?
Right now?
Speaker 5: Did I send you this message because I was talking
to someone. He's the best Celtic since Jalen Brown?
Speaker 4: So there you go.
Speaker 2: The other question? So you are younger than Grant and I.
Speaker 1: The streets are saying, so does this prove the fact
that you listen to this podcast? Is this proof of
concept that Grant and I are also young and hip
and know and know what it do and things like that?
Speaker 2: What's that might have been, sus.
Speaker 5: I can't claime to be young or hip. I can't
claim to be you. I can't claim to be hip.
Speaker 4: So you're in the right place in that case.
Speaker 1: Are we ready for some Guessa players? So ready, We're
gonna fall into the gap. I will start so for
anyone who's new around these parts, I'm gonna read the
clues and now Andrew and Grant, who have just met
in person for the first time virtually, are gonna have
to figure it out. And I think are we gonna
write off the bat? Have to get into the mind
of associate. What I'm just wondering is that what is that?
Speaker 2: That what we're gonna have to do?
Speaker 3: I unlike you have not looked at these ahead of
time so I can approach this contest with integrity.
Speaker 1: Are you sure that you haven't looked at it ahead
of time? I'm trying to think. It doesn't look like
we got one from Bill for you, Grant. That's a
that's rough stuff. But so we'll begin for Yeah, okay,
so we're gonna go with this one from Camden twenty
ninety one. Clue number one, folks, the first player to
have a triple double in his first NBA start. WHOA, hmmm,
I think you're only getting four clues guys by the board?
Speaker 2: No wait, hold on, is this that was there? Only?
Speaker 1: Is this the only clue? I'm sorry, We're gonna need
to double check this. This might be the only clue.
Speaker 5: Grant, like Michael Porter Williams, had to have been very close.
Speaker 4: Oh that's interesting. She got there that's a great pull though.
Speaker 3: Uh my, my mind went to Alfred Peyton, but I
know we've done him before.
Speaker 4: And I can't imagine. Yeah, right, so that's weird that.
Speaker 2: That's the only I'm laughing. This is this is your
only clue?
Speaker 4: What ridiculous. Wait, so it's one shot kill or nothing,
is what you're saying.
Speaker 2: I will say.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to add, uh, you guys are on
the right track when it.
Speaker 2: Comes to the team.
Speaker 3: Well, we've said players from two different teams. Well, well
we got to think about Ben Simmons then if if
if we're going I'm face.
Speaker 2: A little bit. This is the first ever one clue
gets a player. This is something this has ever happened.
Speaker 3: This is real high So I think I think Andrew,
if it had been Michael, well hmmm, Dan wouldn't have
given us an additional clue if it was Peyton or
mc w So we can't.
Speaker 4: We can't make that an official guess.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not like a Martel Folds right, and.
Speaker 2: Guys are so warm it's just not even funny.
Speaker 4: The other thing I'm taking from these two, you're.
Speaker 1: Gonna need to lock in a first answer before I
give you any other yeah, okay, so.
Speaker 3: Simmons and Folks seem to be out, but we're close.
So it's I'm just it's got to be a sixer,
and it seems like Process era sixer.
Speaker 4: Who would that even be?
Speaker 3: The other prospects are embeid ne Lan's Noel julil.
Speaker 4: Okafor uh hmmm.
Speaker 1: I also double checked this and it is in fact correct.
If anybody anybody cares about that, only player ever is
the in his first start to get a triple double
in the NBA.
Speaker 3: I mean, this has to be a Process sixers situation
where it's like it's not someone that's actually like good
I would I wouldn't think, right, because like I know,
we're naming like more notable guys, So who are there
more obscure? Stick is that like in the middle of
one of those just throwaway seasons got to start and
played like all forty eight or something, you know what
I mean, It's like maybe that kind of guy.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to read Dan's face again.
Speaker 5: I want to say something like Tony Roten.
Speaker 4: Then oh that's fun. H hmm. I wouldn't ever have
got Tony Roden.
Speaker 3: I'm wanna you know what, Andrew's the guest, So I
think we were gonna How do you feel about that?
If we go Tony Roten? I just I love the
obscurity of it.
Speaker 5: It's the obscurity of Tony Roten or Tyrus Massy. Pick
one of those two. I'm down for either.
Speaker 4: Let's go Tony Roten.
Speaker 2: Dan final answer, Yeah, that is correct.
Speaker 1: A w pulling mcw right off the bat. I was
just like, oh my god, are they just gonna get this?
So the reason I stammered at the beginning, it took
me someone to start.
Speaker 2: I was like, where are the rest of the clues?
This was just the only clue I thought I did
something wrong.
Speaker 4: Andrew, there is nowhere to go but down from here.
That's an all times I.
Speaker 2: Honestly, Grant, you want to take us out of here.
That's right.
Speaker 4: If you've given me, If you had.
Speaker 3: Told me the year the team that like, I would
never have gotten to Tony Rotin. He's like, not in
my brain, that's UNBELI that's one oh, Andrew, you get
to experience Dan's mic being off.
Speaker 5: I was confused.
Speaker 2: That's one shot kill adjacent?
Speaker 1: Oh, because that was have we ever the last you
had a one shot kill? Grant the last time we
could step badding and out another.
Speaker 2: Have we ever had consecutive one shot kills? I don't.
Speaker 4: I doubt it.
Speaker 3: And also on one clue, the pressure of having one
clue unbelievable.
Speaker 1: You guys are in a groove, so I feel like
we're gonna I'm gonna greet you the next one that way,
which is multiple clues.
Speaker 2: How nice you have on this one.
Speaker 1: Let me see six clues to get this and then
might it might be seven clue number one? Growing up,
I was a multi sport athlete, playing basketball, American football
and track American football.
Speaker 4: That feels like a clue as to where this is
coming from.
Speaker 1: Notice they didn't say international high schools, which Grant does
not recognize as real institutions.
Speaker 4: Who was that?
Speaker 2: Man? I can't even remember?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean this.
Speaker 3: I assume like basically everyone that made it to the
NBA played a lot of sports.
Speaker 4: That's hard. What was the third sport?
Speaker 2: American track?
Speaker 4: Was the track? Well, we have to make an attempt here.
I don't know.
Speaker 3: It can't be him, but like Steve Nash is always
the guy that talks about playing multiple sports. I'm sure
we've had Steve Nash before.
Speaker 5: Though, and he's soccer yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, and hockey would be in there too, probably just
from the Canada of it all. I mean, we've done
Tracy McGrady, but no, he's a baseball guy.
Speaker 4: So that's that's probably not it.
Speaker 1: If we didn't give the clue. Discord member nicole Cha
kole Lev gave this one. He won our over under
competition this past year.
Speaker 3: Shout out, oh man, So that's someone to be reckoned with. Yeah.
I don't know, do you have any I would just
be totally blind guessing, but we do.
Speaker 2: We need to make one.
Speaker 5: I just want to throw someone out there that what's
like they ran draft like pretty Bill.
Speaker 2: Who's got big quads?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, my first the very Celtics coded here.
Speaker 3: But my first thought was, shimmy, oh man.
Speaker 4: The depth.
Speaker 3: I was like, I was gonna say Anthony Edwards because
we yeah, what are we doing guess a player? It's
not gonna be Anthony Edwards. All right, it's let's go
with that.
Speaker 4: Dan.
Speaker 2: Three in a row.
Speaker 1: That is incorrect. Nice try, guys, But what a poll
though Clue number two. I wasn't just a random multi athlete.
I was ranked top fifty in the country in bowl
football in basketball as a six foot five inch eighth grader.
Speaker 3: The first thing that was like Randy Moss. It's like,
this is an NBA guess a player, so it's probably
not him. Uh oh yeah, Like, is it just they're
putting an obvious one out there.
Speaker 5: We should have it immediately, and we're.
Speaker 1: Just I don't think this should be an immediate thing.
I also didn't know that eighth graders could be six'.
Five that's Like wendy when he was. BORN i, Think
so it's Not.
Speaker 3: LEBRON i like that as a, guest and we doubt
that canceled. Out, so, OH i Assume dan would have
told us if it Was Lebron. By, now, oh is
that a lot dead. Answer i'm, SORRY i thought you
two were. Shot we're past one shot killed, territory so
we can just fire our names.
Speaker 2: Off, now, yeah you're, right it's Not.
Speaker 3: Lebron, okay Here's clue, three a bunch of different. SPORTS
i don't KNOW i was ready For clue.
Speaker 4: Three, yeah we got we.
Speaker 3: Have we need to be grounded in an era somewhere
Here clue.
Speaker 1: THREE i ended up following in my mom's footsteps and
chose basketball as my. Sport when it was time for,
COLLEGE i was largely expected to join my hometown, university
but ended up playing at a university In North.
Speaker 3: Carolina, OH i was Thinking javal McGee until you gave
the university.
Speaker 4: THERE i know his mom was a really good.
Speaker 5: PLAYER i was announced From jade And. IVY i know his,
Mom uh?
Speaker 4: Played, Yeah ivy is What? Purdue? Dan where Did jade
And ivy go to?
Speaker 2: College let's let's not do This.
Speaker 4: North, carolina all?
Speaker 3: Right uh followed in his mom's?
Speaker 4: Footsteps that would have been.
Speaker 5: Due it could have Been North. Carolina, YEAH i MEAN.
Speaker 2: I.
Speaker 3: Know, well So Grant hill's dad was in THE, nfl
went To. Greensboro this this, Player, no BECAUSE i got
nothing that name off the.
Speaker 4: Top of my.
Speaker 3: Head. UH i kind of Like Grant hill as a.
GUESS i don't know what his mom, did but his
dad played, football and we Got american football in the first,
Clue North, carolina Not Grant.
Speaker 2: Hill good with?
Speaker 5: That, Yeah i'll ride with.
Speaker 4: That, YEAH i mean we can just fire him off. Now,
yeah there's no.
Speaker 2: Stakes i'll just tell you it's it's only until you
guys want the next.
Speaker 1: Clue i'll let you know if you get. Him Grant,
hill is not? It that's an interesting guest. THOUGH i
cannot Picture javal McGee running track, though by the, Way grant.
Speaker 4: No but, SIX i could picture him being six five
and eighth.
Speaker 2: Grade that's also fair good.
Speaker 3: Point, okay so who's maybe it's you got to focus
on the mom. Thing so what's the what's the reference
to the? Mom she was a basketball?
Speaker 4: Player?
Speaker 2: Correct? Hmm Cooper Flag, no we was a good guest.
THOUGH i don't know if his mom is a basketball,
player BUT i.
Speaker 3: Think his whole fan only is you don't get. That
you don't get that that was the. Nipples well that's also.
Speaker 4: True hmm, Him.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's also.
Speaker 3: True oh, yeah could have been a good.
Speaker 2: GUESS i don't.
Speaker 3: Know you want another clue or you want to just
thrown out, okayeh let's get a.
Speaker 4: Clue clue.
Speaker 2: Four you Think i'm all about.
Speaker 1: SPORTS i was a drummer growing, up and you can
probably see some of that in my.
Speaker 2: Game, God.
Speaker 4: Derek, Lively, no.
Speaker 5: Is that because of the?
Speaker 4: Hair was that?
Speaker 2: IT i just had.
Speaker 3: It it's like the the instrument thing is somebody the
drumming thing.
Speaker 5: Six five in eighth, Grade so they're they're probably maybe
not considerably taller, now but.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right that's.
Speaker 3: True he could have just today for all you. Know
the DRUMMING i feel it's right. There there's LIKE i
can remember some like pregame feature.
Speaker 4: On the drumming.
Speaker 5: Thing, Hmm i've got nothing on the. Drummerhead i'm just
trying To carolina or. Players, yeah that's like tickling my
brain a little. Bit Harrison barnes doesn't dive off.
Speaker 2: Drummer it is Not Harrison. Barnes, no did you get what?
Speaker 3: Was? So we went To north followed in mom's footsteps
and going To north somewhere In North, carolina or followed
in what's that?
Speaker 4: Clue? Again?
Speaker 1: SORRY i ended up following my mom's footsteps and chose basketball.
Speaker 3: Overall and what was the what was The carolina? Thing
was The where's did it give a clue as to
this person was not From North?
Speaker 1: Carolina it says that they were targeted by their hometown
university but ended up playing at a college In North.
Speaker 2: Carolina M.
Speaker 5: I WISH i knew the hometown, university BUT i don't
even know that that would. Help, WELL i think.
Speaker 1: It, would but, yeah oh, MAN i think we need
a clue clue number five second on last. ONE i
was drafted with a high pick on a wild draft
night and have had success early, on averaging nearly five
assists per game over my. Career, really so the fundamentals
that we know is that it's a big guy who's
averaging around five assists per game for his career and
went to A North carolina university as a. HOOPER i
think you might get it on the final clue Because
nicolcha was very kind with the way he.
Speaker 3: CLOSED i respect to give away final. Clue it's always,
Helpful so it's a BIG i thank you for giving
us the big guy. Information AND i was not one
hundred percent.
Speaker 2: Sure six' five in the. Eighth grade is he's?
Speaker 3: Not? Tiny, NO yeah i saw big guy's averaging. Five
assists like it's like a couple of, different, People right
and It's although i'm Fixated on Duke, and carolina there's
like a million Colleges In.
Speaker 4: NORTH carolina i think we're missing an. Obvious one.
Speaker 5: Polo Went. TO duke i don't know that's.
Speaker 3: Too, high yeah, but like oh you KNOW what i
THINK YOU'RE i i, like. THAT guess i think it's
we'd like To, guess paolo that, Is, Correct okay Pallo.
Bank caro final CLUE was i am a dual CITIZEN
and i was eligible to play FOR both Us and
italy but ended up playing FOR the usa.
Speaker 1: NATIONAL team i Also Maybe grants lea's. Favorite player now
this Is thing grant might have guessed jamontis a bonus at.
Speaker 4: That, point, yeah man.
Speaker 5: It's not least. Favorite player we know who.
Speaker 3: That is yeah, Right, right yeah that would that would
have thrown us off. At, all okay that's that was, You.
AGAIN Andrew i polo was the drumming thing.
Speaker 4: LED me.
Speaker 3: I.
Speaker 4: DIDN'T either i, was, LIKE oh i THINK of i
can think.
Speaker 3: Of that it wasn't him the like hometown team BECAUSE like, i,
Know you dub really wanted him and it was a
whole deal that He.
Speaker 5: Left seattle, OH okay i was gonna go with that up.
Speaker 4: Just, now yeah, All, Right DAN.
Speaker 1: Can i ask a, question though what Is and i'm
genuinely asking What about polo's?
Speaker 2: GAME screams i was a drummer in, a band.
Speaker 4: You guys, UH yeah i.
Speaker 3: Don't know that feels like a shot at like pounding
the dribble, or SOMETHING which.
Speaker 2: I respect that's what. It, was, Uh well i'll give
you guys.
Speaker 4: One more, All right i've got.
Speaker 1: Just uh we Have a i'm gonna do one more
and this one. IS okay i like this One for
maddy l. In discord my clue. Number one my final
seas in was Within The eastern. Conference team, good, luck guys.
Speaker 4: Uh as in.
Speaker 5: As in their only time In The eastern conference was.
Speaker 1: That One so i'm WILLING to i feel like it's fair, to,
say yes they only. Played one their final season IN
the nba was With An eastern, conference team and that
was the only season they spent In The.
Speaker 2: EASTERN conference I do i do have.
Speaker 4: A guess i.
Speaker 2: Do too what are you saying you should run by? Each,
OTHER well i think we should.
Speaker 3: Both get a one shot, Killed opportunity so my guess
will Cancel.
Speaker 4: Out andrews, all right.
Speaker 2: Go ahead?
Speaker 4: Olaja one that?
Speaker 2: Is, correct wow you know? One shot what was it? Was?
THAT yours? A dubs i don't want.
Speaker 5: To Say mine.
Speaker 3: Evans the, conference Team the pacers With THE pacers i wiped.
FROM memory i only think of him As a pelican and.
Speaker 4: A king i. Think pelicans maybe clue TO was?
Speaker 1: I traded i was traded from the team that drafted
me for refusing to sign a thirteen million.
Speaker 2: Dollar deal.
Speaker 1: Clu three my last season with, THIS team i made
My Twelfth all. Star team at the peak of, MY
career I Won, MVP FINALS Mvp, nba Championship And defensive
player Of the year all in the.
Speaker 2: SAME season i think you guys would have gotten.
Speaker 4: It, there yeah we'd had a lot of guesses for.
Speaker 5: That one.
Speaker 2: CLUE five i went TO Three, nba finals. WINNING two.
Speaker 1: CLU six i was runner Up in rookie Of the
year nineteen eighty five to a player who played for
the same Team That patrick williams currently plays for now
tries to play.
Speaker 4: FOR now i gotta focus on the important Players.
Speaker 1: WHO seven i played at the nineteen Ninety six olympics
for a team that wasn't my. Birth country. Clue eight
my college team nickname Was Five siama Jama. Five, jama
okay That was those were, Excellent clues MATTIE l i
FORGET that i may have ruined it by giving me
extra little nudge on the, FIRST.
Speaker 4: One a, little bit a. Little bit oh you did the, Mic,
again dan.
Speaker 3: This is.
Speaker 2: Stat padding i'm trying to inflate. Your numbers, you're.
Speaker 4: Welcome, appreciate it? All RIGHT shall i give you?
Speaker 2: Guys one, Oh yeah?
Speaker 3: I'm, Ready, Maybe okay possibly this IS From khsh clue.
NUMBER one i Come. From TEXAS not i went to College.
IN texas i was. Born there this player Comes.
Speaker 4: From texas uh Could Mean.
Speaker 2: Jornan finny smith Is? From texas is? LOCK name i?
Speaker 4: DON'T know, I like i don't know?
Speaker 1: Anyone else why was He The DeAndre Jordan's? From texas
who else is from isn't?
Speaker 4: Big state there's probably a lot of People. From texas
i'd venture. To, guess.
Speaker 2: Wait so They're, from texas they didn't Go. TO texas
i Come. FROM texas i can't interpret the.
Speaker 5: CLUE anymore i could then five OR six nba players
that Went to University of Texas. OR texas i don't
know what, it IS but i don't know anyone Can.
Speaker 1: From texas i'm gonna to say so if you don't
HAVE anyone I, A dfs i'm just gonna lock.
Speaker 2: It in is from Is? From?
Speaker 4: Texas okay it Is Not Dorian. Phinney smith that's, really unfortunate.
Speaker 3: All right clue number two selected in. THE lottery i
played for my first team for a long stretch of Time.
Speaker 2: From texas on a.
Speaker 1: Lottery Team Andrew DeAndre jordan wasn't drafted in, the, lottery
right didn't he go like super late or not?
Speaker 2: At?
Speaker 4: All Okay.
Speaker 2: From texas lottery pick.
Speaker 5: Miles.
Speaker 2: Starter, bang oh that's a, great game THAT was.
Speaker 4: I thought, i.
Speaker 3: Thought when YOU said i could name a few players
From the University, of texas you're Gonna drop you're gonna
drop him.
Speaker 2: In there where did He because i'm so bad at
where players go? To school where did he go?
Speaker 3: To? School, texas yeah BUT the i couldn't give, You,
that like, you know the clue DOESN'T say i Went,
To TEXAS it's i Come. From TEXAS so i didn't.
WANT to i didn't want to to give that away.
TOO badly clu THREE was i was the league leader
in blocks more, than ONCE but i never had an all.
Defensive selection it's. Pretty good that's a good GOOD stat
i don't KNOW if i would.
Speaker 4: Remember that.
Speaker 3: NUMBER four i made my first conference finals in my
ninth year and my first finals the. NEXT year, Clu
five i'm known for rim protection and stretching. The floor
you're probably getting, it here but the nickname unicorn belongs
to someone else in my. Draft class And then. Clue
six if you didn't, have it you weren't. GETTING it
i don't think the grass is always GREENER wherever. I
go is that like something? He said or is that
just a Reference?
Speaker 4: To milwaukee.
Speaker 2: He had.
Speaker 5: So, Many, quotes yeah it.
Speaker 2: Must have it must. HAVE been i thought there was
gonna be something at, the end stabbed in the back
by my, front office or something like trying way.
Speaker 4: More than twenty two million dollars a year. Or, something yeah,
all right let me. SEE here i have only one.
Other one this Is from Matti. L uh clue, Number One.
Speaker 2: Patrick, williams no just.
Speaker 4: Really good guess have, We Done. PATRICK williams i don't think,
We have so it's still. Out there yeah it's, It's Not.
Speaker 3: PATRICK williams i won't count that as your one shot
kill attempts because you haven't heard the.
Speaker 4: CLUE yet i am currently On A western.
Speaker 2: Conference team i'll let just Name A western, Conference. Player
andrew i'll let you take it whatever whoever you say.
Speaker 5: You don't want to pick, a team and, All.
Speaker 1: Right i'll give you. The Team western Conference Team. Vancouver
grizzlies seattle's.
Speaker 2: On it Let's SAY. Matty l, i'm so Who's a?
Speaker 1: BULLS fan, i BELIEVE which i feel Like Is sacramento
kings Of.
Speaker 2: The east so pick a player From The. Sacramento, kales okay.
Speaker 4: That's how you're.
Speaker 5: Getting there A former bowl, DeMar.
Speaker 4: Great Not To martin rosen uh that although.
Speaker 3: This would still line up Clue number clue, number two
my last team was In The, eastern conference so this
still could.
Speaker 1: Have been but it's not So because andrew doesn't have
the Backstory OF. MATTIE l i feel like there's gotta
be Some Like king's bulls. CONNECTION here.
Speaker 4: I can neither confirm nor deny.
Speaker 5: There are there Are More kins bulls players who.
Speaker 1: Can name There's zach lavine's it is Not.
Speaker 3: Zac, lavine yeah let him fly your past one. Killed
territory what was this? Clue Exactly so clue One is
i'm currently On A western. Conference team clue two is
my last team was In The. Eastern conference.
Speaker 5: Could Also Be demats sabonis Future.
Speaker 4: Not bonis.
Speaker 2: Let's go Down the. King's roster who was just? Easier Conference?
WESTERN conference i don't know how Recently.
Speaker 5: Been, sacramento right.
Speaker 1: Not necessarily at, this point because who else on the
roster was just In The? Eastern conference Monk Has, Net
Well malik monk did Play.
Speaker 2: For charlotte it's.
Speaker 5: Not really lakers before, That though, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh last the clue was his last team was.
Speaker 4: In the east On a. Western, team now last team
was In? The, EAST.
Speaker 1: Uh i Say, A, hertnerstein nope.
Speaker 2: Former bull.
Speaker 4: What was it's? Not really what?
Speaker 3: Was?
Speaker 1: Yours Dan, Alex, CARUSO no i might be harping too
much On the. Bulls connection you might you, might.
Speaker 2: Be, ah man this is just we might just Need
another there's so, many players.
Speaker 4: There's literally hundreds of players you can guess with. The
information can.
Speaker 2: You just can you just sit here for ten minutes
while we go through the depth charts.
Speaker 3: OF everything, i mean you might get, it eventually you'll
get it if we could feed it up. With Another Although,
kyrie irving It Is?
Speaker 2: Kyrie irving.
Speaker 4: How?
Speaker 3: Did?
Speaker 4: Why why what did you guys say it?
Speaker 1: So alphabetically in, my Mind the west Starts, With DALLAS
so i.
Speaker 2: STARTED running i started, Doing, that oh.
Speaker 4: Making too many?
Speaker 2: Thirty sliders as you just know the anyone who thinks
that GRANT and i can't do. The alphabet? WHAT'S up.
Speaker 4: I mean that was that was just an out of.
Left FIELD so clu three was.
Speaker 3: Gonna be, In fact i've only been On One western,
conference team so we're like not narrowing the field.
Speaker 4: At all it's really there because you don't know when.
This is this could.
Speaker 3: Be. Anybody uh. Clue four i've been TO four, nba finals.
Winning one that would have dialed.
Speaker 2: IT in i. Think that Or make america. HEALTHY again
i think we would.
Speaker 4: Write sure i'm not sure about the old. Vaccine thing.
Speaker 3: NUMBER five i am a Nine Time, all star but
never made a First TEAM all nba did not?
Speaker 2: Know that.
Speaker 3: Oh. WOW six i have played In one olympics And One,
world cup but not for my country.
Speaker 4: Of birth right because he Played.
Speaker 3: For.
Speaker 4: AUSTRALIA right i.
Speaker 2: Wasn't because he's born and he was born out OF.
Speaker 3: The.
Speaker 2: Us right yeah?
Speaker 3: Was it he was Born in australia and he played FOR. The, Us,
right yeah that's what.
Speaker 4: IT is i had.
Speaker 3: It. Backwards, Uh seven i've been Teammates With, james Durant
hardin Love. And tatum that probably would have got you.
Speaker 1: There, TOO yeah i think the FINALS one i think
we would have gotten IT.
Speaker 3: On, i YEAH well i cannot believe if you got
to it in two.
Speaker 1: JUST incredible i also had a double check where he,
was born which you, Were, Right grant but he's also
Cousins With, isaiah briscoe Formerly The.
Speaker 2: ORLANDO magic i had.
Speaker 3: No idea look, at that shut up as Brisco Like,
tony rotin not a name that's in my brain. At
all recognize that's a person. That exists would Never guess Tony.
BRISCO uh i think, That's yeah That's all i've got.
Speaker 2: For You, all right we're Up. To, andrew now.
Speaker 5: All right do you want my deciplayer first or do
you want the three That.
Speaker 2: Were yeah you should kick it off with the one
you came.
Speaker 4: Up, with yeah We'll take.
Speaker 3: Gears, first, okay deciplayer this, player specifically you have.
Speaker 5: Eleven clues.
Speaker 1: Oh good if we don't, get it do you know
how sad, This, is grant.
Speaker 4: Real sad the eleven. Clues me this is gonna.
Speaker 5: Be hard this is a, Tough one it. Really is
dan's gonna love the. First, four.
Speaker 4: Dan you can just tune out while we talked ABOUT.
Speaker 2: The ncaa, oh, no wait let me just WHO do
i know went? To college let me get a zero
Shot Kill. Michael jordan.
Speaker 4: It Is Not.
Speaker 5: Michael jordan. It's unfortunate clue number one and this actually.
Bad me some pause earlier to. NUMBER one i Am, From,
dallas texas but played high school basketball In both Texas. And, MASSACHUSETTS.
Speaker 2: Grant.
Speaker 1: I don't, I mean i CAN name nba Players from
texas if you want To, get grant.
Speaker 4: But played high school Basketball in Dallas. And, MASSACHUSETTS.
Speaker 3: Man i, Don't Think like i'm trying to think of
Where in massachusetts just doesn't strike me as like a.
Hot bed, it's like where's Like Mont verd academy and
wherever that's Not in that's not there's Nothing. In massachusetts
it's Like ok hill is In like virginia. Or something
all of the high schools that, they like there's like
three super programs that LIKE every nba player.
Speaker 4: WENT to i don't can't think of if There's a.
Massachusetts one.
Speaker 2: Now to high School? In texas, Do, you grant do
you think that it means the player Is from? Texas?
Originally uh and does that help us?
Speaker 5: At?
Speaker 4: All andrew? Was it can you read the? Clue? Again?
Speaker 5: Please Yeah and dan TO confirm i Am, From, dallas
texas but played high school basketball In both Texas.
Speaker 1: And massachusetts, Oh okay i'm gonna pretend like that it
did something.
Speaker 4: FOR me i mean that could just go either way.
Speaker 3: As far as like could have gone back home to finish,
high school could Have.
Speaker 4: Left, dallas uh we got.
Speaker 2: There, from dallas so we know we know They're, from dallas.
Speaker 4: Right right but like COULD have i don't know that.
Speaker 1: Wasn't Wasn't DeAndre jordan's whole free, agency, Thing like I'm,
from dallas let me, go, HOME.
Speaker 3: Sure, I KNOW i I the massachusetts, thing IS so.
Speaker 4: I don't know what to do.
Speaker 3: WITH that I Remember mark cuban chasing, him AROUND so
i don't remember why.
Speaker 2: He's just in his car literally trying to find him as. We,
SPEAK uh i.
Speaker 3: Don't know you got you gotta just take a shot.
At it do you have any any one?
Speaker 4: Shots?
Speaker 2: Here dan my only one would Be DJ but i
don't even know if He's. From dallas he's a sure
lock it In dere jordan not not a one.
Speaker 5: SHOT kill i Think.
Speaker 3: He's, HOUSTON also i think he's Got The houston astros h, Tattooed, somewhere.
Speaker 2: Grant where was this twelve?
Speaker 3: SECONDS ago i don't have a, Better Guess so i'm
in no position To the massachusetts.
Speaker 4: Of it, Like who, i'm like do YOU think i
can't think.
Speaker 2: Of A single?
Speaker 3: Nba player i'm sure there's a Billion, with, LIKE oh
I associate massachusetts with?
Speaker 4: THIS person.
Speaker 5: I think you that is a. Tough one that that's.
Speaker 4: All right let's we've attempted our. One shot can we
all take? The? Second, clue absolutely.
Speaker 5: CLUE too i played three years of college basketball and
hold the, career steals single damn single season and career
assists Records. At Missouri.
Speaker 2: Michael porter junior Doesn't, pass nope and he.
Speaker 3: WAS not i don't think he was there for three
years that although he had the, back SURGERY.
Speaker 4: So i think he had like a whole an entire Missed.
Speaker 3: Year.
Speaker 4: Missouri grant this might.
Speaker 2: SHOCK you i. Have nothing.
Speaker 3: It's not like A, real yeah it doesn't leap out
like it's not A rich so the only one of
THE like. I forget i want, to Say Like, kareem
rush but he's like All the rushes ARE. FROM la
i think he Went.
Speaker 4: To missouri that's. A man missouri. That's brutal.
Speaker 3: Do you think we have anyone in the audience that
like Just loves. Missouri basketball that's just like screaming.
Speaker 2: At, us right you said he? Led it what did he? Lead, in.
Speaker 5: Yeah Records at missouri and, career steals single damn single
season and. Career, assists okay so it's a Guard.
Speaker 4: From missouri.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to go through all my collegiate MEMORIES that. I, have.
Speaker 4: Man s. Is tough no one's coming to mind. From,
THERE yeah i. DON'T know i don't. HAVE nothing I
think i would ask. Another clue we NEED another.
Speaker 3: CLUELU three i was the TWENTY Twelve Sec preseason player
Of the year and SHARE the sec record for single
dame assists.
Speaker 5: With nineteen.
Speaker 1: There's a preseason player of. The year how unserious is?
College basketball.
Speaker 3: Wouldn't that be something if there's A PRESEASON all nba
team where you're just.
Speaker 1: On it who what company Sponsors that i'd be embarrassed
to have my brand?
Speaker 2: Associated with that. Is funny i've never thought.
Speaker 1: About it that's like that is SPONSORED. By timu that
award has to be sponsored by.
Speaker 4: THOSE products, i mean are we are we missing?
Speaker 3: An opportunity to fixate On, the Celtics given andrews stated
team preference and background that we're looking at.
Speaker 2: Right Now Where's larry? Bird from It's? Not, missouri, okay,
man wait, oh no he's from and He. That's illinois Is.
Not missouri i'm so hung up On Miss.
Speaker 1: Jason tatum Is from illinois though Him and bradley He's From,
saint louis Which. Is, missouri okay, never mind That's, not,
dallas regardless he.
Speaker 4: Didn't he didn't Go. To missouri And also jason was
not in college for. THREE years.
Speaker 2: I already forget some of the. Prior, clues Yeah that's
dallas and then Went to Texas.
Speaker 1: And massachusetts three year, college player had all those Records
at Missouri preseason player Of, the year which is a
fucking award for, some reason.
Speaker 4: And HAS the.
Speaker 5: Sec record single dame assists.
Speaker 2: With, nineteen oh so he's a night he's a pastor
and gets a bunch. Of steals.
Speaker 5: This is the last.
Speaker 4: College clue if thats let's, let's see let's hear the. Next,
clue then.
Speaker 5: Did you guys even did a?
Speaker 4: DestinE there I'M so i.
Speaker 2: Can't think where's did white? Chocolate Go To. Jason williams where's. He,
from well He's From west virginia and went somewhere And.
Speaker 4: Then florida why do you know?
Speaker 2: THIS first i don't know, right Well Had randy moss on.
Speaker 4: The brain they played together in.
Speaker 5: High school, four.
Speaker 2: Yeah and Maybe five flora maybe.
Speaker 5: UHLU four i HEARD the nba draft after my, junior
season but ultimately went undrafted due to my small size and. Shooting.
Speaker 2: Concerns ah maybe he would have went higher if he
had won Another preseason player Of the, year award if
he had a couple of those in. The bank do You?
Speaker 4: Know smith is It? Is smith it is Not? Is
smith he's not, Oh, man now this.
Speaker 3: Is so obviously he made it because he wouldn't be
a guess a player if he hadn't got TO.
Speaker 4: The nba maybe he's an.
Speaker 1: Overseas legend don't give away the. Next clue he's ON
an n one mixtape tour.
Speaker 2: Right now i'm trying to think of undrafted guys who
got a bunt questions with.
Speaker 5: A shot, he, said Yes.
Speaker 4: Where's isaiah?
Speaker 2: Whitehead from you, got me? Not him, all right that's.
Speaker 3: My Contribution uh smith Went To, wake forest by, the way,
similar colors got Like the black And the Gold.
Speaker 2: Where brandy foyd gor Is A yukon maybe yeah that,
sounds right.
Speaker 4: The, moon, like yep. That's right check. Us Out.
Speaker 3: Uh dan brought, something up so you're gonna get like
a bonus.
Speaker 5: Clue here THIS is tlu four and. A, half okay
so high school high. School. Basketball here he had several
YouTube video much taller players that. Became popular there is
a video out there Of him duncan that has nine hundred.
Thousand views.
Speaker 2: This is gonna be absolutely nothing.
Speaker 4: To. Grant yeah now we've been in my mind. Spot
views what are? These views you?
Speaker 5: Speak?
Speaker 2: Of likens.
Speaker 5: He Dumped Over. Tony mitchell if that, means anything well.
Speaker 3: That changes and now it's changed the type Of player
i'm thinking of pretty. Pretty significantly, couldn't shoot, super athletic
a ton of steals and Assists, at missouri.
Speaker 1: Undrafted too all these players that are coming into my
head are Just draft some of them been drafting the,
lottery too which is.
Speaker 2: Just bad most of them definitely didn't Go. To missouri.
Speaker 3: Time for, Yeah FIVE yeah i, got yeah we NEED it.
FLU five i am one of countless father son duos
to play IN. The nba my father was a first
round pick in the nineteen EIGHTY two.
Speaker 4: Nba draft this, Is great this. Is great we should.
Speaker 3: Like these these are these are. Good clues this is,
a significant sufficiently.
Speaker 2: OBSCURE player i hate myself at. THE moment i.
Speaker 4: Hate myself, he's like WHY don't i?
Speaker 1: Have this we had a lot of. College CLUES so
i don't. Hate myself you should. Be, Ashamed great i'm
uncomfortable one of the many father. Son Duos now i'm
gonna latch.
Speaker 5: Onto that so a little more on his father first
first pitch in the nineteen EIGHTY two, nba draft played
for three teams across, eleven seasons including his final One
For Grant's Golden. State Warriors, oh grant, all right, all right,
come on.
Speaker 4: Well let's see there's There's no.
Speaker 2: So that's what does that? Put us? Late eighties if
he was three teams or? Was it how long was
his draft?
Speaker 3: Eighty two, so yeah eleven years he's on like the
ninety two or Ninety.
Speaker 4: THREE warriors, i mean it's Not Like Tim hardaway junior
did Not go where did he Went? To michigan he
was drafted too right in the, first.
Speaker 3: Round not Dunking, on yeah so probably Not Him Man.
Speaker 5: Tim, hardaway junior twenty fourth overall piss in.
Speaker 4: Twenty thirteen, yeah yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2: That's right the dad isn't.
Speaker 1: The clue, Holy shit i'm now trying to think of,
the DAD which i guess we get, me there, but.
Speaker 3: Well yeah the dad should get you this to this
player who Had a so the dad and the son
both had like. Real careers the dunking thing IS now.
I can't i was so Focused on missouri And now
i'm trying to, think, of like who's the little guy
that's famous for dunking on.
Speaker 4: Bigger players And the. Warriors thing we should have this.
Speaker 2: BY now i think we need.
Speaker 4: Another, CLUE yeah i think.
Speaker 5: SO too i don't know if you should first four
we're all. Non damn and then that was. Pretty obscure
he's a pretty. Obscure player i'll tell.
Speaker 4: You, That good, ALL right.
Speaker 5: Clu six despite, GOING undrafted i appeared in seventy five
games as, a rookie averaging two point eight points per
dame and fifteen point one minutes. Per game.
Speaker 2: So they just didn't want, to, shoot yeah or couldn't
or couldn't, fair, enough.
Speaker 3: Man there's so many different hang ups went undrafted due
to my small size and.
Speaker 5: Shooting concerns.
Speaker 3: But it's Also like i'm trying to think of like
small guys that dunked, a lot but that does it
doesn't necessarily mean this guy was doing that IN.
Speaker 1: The, NBA no i mean two points per game is. A, rookie.
Speaker 4: Yeah And then missouri that's just like that is just.
Killing me.
Speaker 1: I'm getting hung up on the father son DUO because
i FEEL like i should instantly.
Speaker 2: Know.
Speaker 3: It, RIGHT yes i mean there's, a lot but it's
not and there Was a warriors connection.
Speaker 5: That that may or may not come.
Speaker 4: Up, LATER okay i think we better.
Speaker 2: Get, another yeah we Need six clue seven whatever.
Speaker 5: THIS is i almost WANTED to i wanted to Do
a clue six and a. Half here after my debut Against,
THE jazz i, SAID quote i Wouldn't say i'm trying
to prove. People wrong i'm trying to prove myself RIGHT
because I know i can do. Almost, anything wow.
Speaker 2: And now we can. Do.
Speaker 5: Seven yeah that was just a. Balls quote.
Speaker 4: That, one yeah THAT one i don't have in my.
MEMORY bank.
Speaker 5: CLU seven i only played fifty games my second year
and one dame for the main. RED clause i played
behind the Lights Of jean Rondo And. Isaiah thomas, oh.
Speaker 2: God you were right In the, Celtics, connection grant you
were there.
Speaker 4: With, that, yeah oh why don't we have? This yet
who's Like.
Speaker 1: A celtic there, are people there are, people, Screaming right,
OH yeah.
Speaker 4: I, mean like. It's not It Can't Like nate robinson
didn't Go.
Speaker 1: To, missouri no he was drafted in the first, round
too when he's from.
Speaker 4: Right and it's, just like, it's not. IT'S not i
don't think his dad was IN. The nba he did
play For. The celtics so that's at least where we got.
Speaker 2: One thing who's on, Those, teams.
Speaker 4: Like yeah little guy can't. SHOOT athletic.
Speaker 5: I went back to the depths Of my celtics.
Speaker 2: KNOWLEDGE year i think we need. Another clue grant's gonna
have to go before we even get this guest. Up player, oh,
yeah right.
Speaker 4: That's right we gotta get this in. Ten minutes.
Speaker 5: CLUE eight i played my last season IN the nba
in twenty fifteen sixteen for, two teams appearing in fourteen
dames For the philadelphia Seventy six ers and nine For The.
PHOENIX suns.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: KNOW why i so many times just wanted To Scream
alfred peyton and that's.
Speaker 2: Just camp that just.
Speaker 4: Can't be he was like a top ten pick.
Speaker 2: OR something i Apologize To. Alfred peyton yeah.
Speaker 4: That doesn't that doesn't. HELP me i DON'T think I, got.
Speaker 5: YES please i bounced AROUND The g league at the
end OF my, nba career with Stops, in Maine The
idaho stampede And The Santa. CRUZ warriors, i mean who's?
Speaker 4: That guy how.
Speaker 2: Long has mac McClung? Been around? How old who's? That
guy that's literally the entire exercise.
Speaker 4: Into my brain, flashed like oh that little guy from
the From The Santa.
Speaker 3: Who's warriors but we're talking ten. Years, ago, Yeah, CLASS
yeah i went overseas in twenty seventeen and played for
five years before returning as an assistant coach in twenty,
twenty two WINNING The nba championship in twenty.
Speaker 5: Twenty four.
Speaker 4: So he's On the. Celtic's, Bench boy, oh Boy.
Speaker 2: That's missoula misola didn't have His, own yeah he had
his own staff at, this point didn't he did he?
Replace anybody after He. REPLACED udoka i. DON'T know i.
Don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to picture the, bench now Like who's, you
know how you're watching, the games you like recognize like
staff and assistance.
Speaker 4: And stuff after, A. While who's but then he Wouldn't
look i'm thinking of a.
Speaker 3: Small guy he's not gonna look small on a bench necessarily,
because like, oh.
Speaker 2: Boy his dad was IN the. Nba too oh, my
god we might need. To eleven we gotta.
Speaker 4: Just go to the, next clue.
Speaker 5: All RIGHT so i hope this dives a little, bit
away but not. Too much it's a. Little eleven this
THE start i. Am now the head coach of The,
Main Celtics brad stevens said, ABOUT me I thought phil
was ready for this from the FIRST time i. Coached him.
Speaker 4: We get, the NAME and i DON'T think i.
Speaker 2: Know it, oh man you.
Speaker 1: Have it i'm not gonna pretend like we should have
gotten it.
Speaker 2: By now, Oh man but he's, gonna Say dam i'm gonna.
Get mad phil is Just press. Phil.
Speaker 3: PRESSY oh i would never in a, million years never
wouldn't have.
Speaker 4: Got it where did that? Come from why did you?
Speaker 3: Know?
Speaker 1: THAT me i just was trying to think of players
That played phil and he mentioned the, First NAME so i, Do?
Speaker 2: THAT phil i Was, LIKE phil i was trying to
Think of pressy was?
Speaker 3: The Name So paul pressy was is, the DAD which
i could not have.
Speaker 4: Told you we played For. The warriors So, that, oh,
man great that.
Speaker 2: Was, amazing yeah that's that's what.
Speaker 3: You want you want to hate yourself through the whole
process and, then, GO oh.
Speaker 2: I sufficiently feel bad. About, Myself grant can we try
To have andrew one through one of the submissions? Really
quick to try? One?
Speaker 5: More yeah SUBMISSIONS or i do have that trivia?
Speaker 2: As well, ah yeah either your.
Speaker 5: Your pick, All right well we'll try a. Submission first
we'll see see how. We do that's one. Shot Tail
this this is from bridge At x oh this is
this is gonna.
Speaker 2: Be rich this is apath.
Speaker 5: Be rich ats that's that. FIRST clue i was drafted
outside the lottery and, twenty fifteen after spending two years IN,
The sec.
Speaker 2: We're gonna do, This Again.
Speaker 3: Phil pressy twenty fifteen outside THE lottery sec for how
many years we?
Speaker 4: Gotta?
Speaker 3: TRY so i ONE thing i don't know is who's
in what? Conference, anymore yeah that's become.
Speaker 4: Very difficult twenty fifteen outside. THE lottery.
Speaker 3: I don't know who's someone From like alabama class, or
yeah who's in the twenty?
Speaker 4: Fifteen class what year?
Speaker 2: Is that the is THAT the kp one didn't we just?
Sorry you or is that not? Twenty fifteen i'm.
Speaker 3: SO bad i need if you give me like, THREE
players i could, name everybody but if you just give me,
THE year i can't remember who's in what draft class?
Speaker 1: Twenty fifteen because twenty Fourteen, Was. Wiggans no twenty thirteen.
Was no twenty Fourteen. WAS wiggins i think he's.
Speaker 4: Around there.
Speaker 5: Forty fifteen is number. One overall pitch is near and
dear to. Your heart SO.
Speaker 4: Now i don't KNOW if i hate this player or.
Speaker 5: Like him, uh oh, EXCUSE me I Said.
Speaker 4: Grant dan, oh, no oh his cat is cat the
number twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2: Drafted outside the lottery in that draft FROM an.
Speaker 3: Sec school so we could Be in. KENTUCKY territory.
Speaker 2: I don't know who do you want drafted outside the
lottery just in? That draft that's. Basically, it yeah oh
but he was he was in school for two. Years though,
oh ye.
Speaker 1: IN the Sec is kentucky IN. THE sec i think so, All,
Right tyler yeah They Were.
Speaker 2: Tyler Lewis. TYLER ewis i.
Speaker 4: LOVE that, I, guess yeah we got we gotta get.
ANOTHER clue i have nothing.
Speaker 5: FLU too i averaged seven points and five rebounds my,
rookie year sharing the Floor With Bulls Legend kirk heinrich
in the final year of. His, career.
Speaker 4: Well so is Where Is kirk heinrich in in?
Speaker 3: This?
Speaker 2: One? Though oh didn't they just say he was On?
Speaker 3: The, bulls well He Said? Bulls legend but like did
he wasn't there his? WHOLE career i don't think was
He wasn't heinrich somewhere else at?
Speaker 4: The, end also twenty Fifteen Was kirk heinrich? Last year
how old?
Speaker 3: Are?
Speaker 2: We yeah?
Speaker 3: That's, Crazy Ah?
Speaker 2: Aaron brooks did he go TO an? SEC school i.
Speaker 5: Don't know It's Not. Aaron brooks that's a.
Speaker 4: GOOD guess.
Speaker 3: I think my brain. STOPPED working I think i've had
too many guess.
Speaker 2: Of players.
Speaker 1: Try to remember who gave the, Clues, Though, grant yeah.
Speaker 2: That that leads me astray as often. As, not though
What's the warriors? Connection?
Speaker 4: Here, YEAH right.
Speaker 3: I. DON'T know i just can't remember Where kerk. Kinrich
was it could have Been the bulls who maybe did
a farewell.
Speaker 2: TO her i.
Speaker 4: Don't know you want, Another, clue, yeah alright clue.
Speaker 5: Number three the third most similar player to me through
ten years is One of grant's, favorite players A man
grant's fashioned his facial hair on. Since College, RICH fox.
Speaker 2: I Was LIKE lionel messi didn't. Play, basket, no wait,
most well, this again just what a.
Speaker 3: Red herring the whole like most most similar to those
are always like the three most different players you could?
Possibly imagine so.
Speaker 2: Does that make him? A wing?
Speaker 3: Not necessarily, if so this. Is player this player is
most Similar.
Speaker 4: To, rick fox for whatever.
Speaker 3: THAT'S worth sec school outside the lottery twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2: Was On kirk hinrich's team as.
Speaker 3: A Rookie kurk heinrich is roughly in his early. Thirties
now if he's still in, THE league i, guess right based, on.
Speaker 2: Oh still in. THE league i didn't.
Speaker 4: Know that if, he is we don't know a team
unless It's. The bulls.
Speaker 5: Third most similar player.
Speaker 2: To me, oh third that's not even the most. Similar
player this is.
Speaker 4: THE year I don't i don't HAVE it i have.
No idea we need.
Speaker 3: Another clue, So four i've averaged twelve and seven so
far in my career on. Efficient shooting my career high
and regular season starts is, fifty five.
Speaker 2: So not.
Speaker 4: Necessarily starter.
Speaker 1: Twenty fifteen is too far Back For, Naji, MARSHALL right,
i think, so, yeah yeah, well seven that's an.
Speaker 4: Interesting player like what?
Speaker 2: IS that.
Speaker 3: I guess If If rick fox, means anything it's not.
A center so it's. A, forward yeah that's in his
earl ish THIRTIES and.
Speaker 1: Sec school let me just go through the memory Bank
Of kirk hinrich's. FORMER teammates, i know just see we
can turn.
Speaker 4: It.
Speaker 1: Up ah the twenty fifteen is throwing. ME off i
feel like we should know it when We're, the no that's,
oh no Because He.
Speaker 2: Kirt heinrich wasn't. ON that i was, gonna say when
Were the morris? Twins drafted it could be one.
Speaker 3: OF them i think they're further back, than, that okay
because they're both like mid to late. Thirties now they
were On the suns as, rookies Too and heinrich ver On, the,
SUNS right i DON'T think i think that's right, NOW
though i can convince my BRAIN that i can See
kerk heinrich in like ten. Different Jerseys like i'm sure
he was On. THE bucks i have no idea IF
it's i think we need.
Speaker 4: Another, clue yeah.
Speaker 5: All right this is flu. Number five after a one
year stop With, the wizards shot forty percent from three
averaged fourteen point one points and eight points. HITS rebounds
i signed a one year deal and tame off the
Bench For david fizdale in an. Uninspiring mixteam oh, oh
boy this is.
Speaker 2: Not good they got, for data.
Speaker 4: Pretty good year For. The wizards ends up On. The
knicks what Were the? Wizard stats andrew fourteen.
Speaker 5: And what three to eight and a half and a
half foards from three.
Speaker 4: From three sec school, twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2: He ends up On.
Speaker 3: THE knicks i Feel like grant should be able to
follow this with those.
Speaker 5: Two teams Me.
Speaker 4: The wizard Was so.
Speaker 3: Wizards man Yeah on dan to pull this one Out.
Speaker 2: The wizards To the knicks is tripping me out because
twenty fifteen and so if he was drafted outside the
lottery and he was With the knicks by, year three
that's what this puts. Him out so he. Didn't sign
he must have been drafted outside of the, first round.
Speaker 5: Then not necessarily With the knicks in, year three just
to one year stop With the wizards before going to
The next.
Speaker 2: Oh okay.
Speaker 1: So who did who was On the wizards and Tricked
the knicks into thinking they?
Speaker 3: Were, good well fourteen and eight and forty percent from
three is like a very specific like he's a forward
or a wing of like a big wing that could
show like eight rebounds is a ton, Of rebounds so
YOU gotta.
Speaker 4: I forwards I think.
Speaker 2: I keep Thinking About, al harrington who was drafted in.
Speaker 1: The, nineties yeah not in the closet twenty might have
been retired By fift they were On Kerk hin, richard's
team then we're With the wizards and then went To
the Knicks Under.
Speaker 5: David Fizdale david.
Speaker 2: Fizdale blacked out that.
Speaker 4: Entire era when was when? Was that?
Speaker 2: Is?
Speaker 4: That like is THAT? Post covid? For example it.
Speaker 2: Must, be no THAT'S Pre covid FIZDALE'S. Pre covid So.
Speaker 3: These wizards teams would have been some pretty Good Like
John wall. WIZARDS teams i think like if that helps that,
good way maybe maybe it could be leading us the,
wrong way.
Speaker 2: Who had a? Good bet who was good on the
bench For the wizards During that like it's.
Speaker 4: Like it's not auto porter because he was like the
third pick. Or SOMETHING.
Speaker 3: And i don't know what if the year's not, QUITE
right i don't think.
Speaker 2: Could they be a? Big MAN and i don't know
if that's really gonna help, because, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah that maybe we don't know the volume on that
forty but you feel like you would know it though
the forty percent just.
Speaker 2: In, GENERAL yeah i need. Another clue, OH yeah i.
Speaker 4: Think so i'm.
Speaker 5: Loving. This uh at my most, Recent stop i've finished
top ten And sixth man Of the year voting three
times and have continued to shoot the hell out of.
Speaker 4: The, ball.
Speaker 2: Well now this is. Getting, bad yeah, top ten top ten,
three times it's Not, really no he's never been am
WHAT am? I doing.
Speaker 4: THAT'S until i. Have clue we will get it on the.
Next clue who's been The six man of the?
Speaker 1: Year staple they can really? Shoot it that we should
just like that should be that would fit this.
Speaker 3: Timeline that's been, Like, Gone. Wizards nicks The kirk heinrich
connection is.
Speaker 4: Not helping me. At all it's not out of, My.
Speaker 3: Mind wizards nicks a ton of six, man consideration.
Speaker 4: Good shooter we think.
Speaker 2: We watch it be like that's not what it is.
Speaker 3: At all he's he's four for ten for his career
or SOMETHING that's i think it should.
Speaker 1: Be like the, past decade who's just been A six
man of the. Year staple it should it should be. That,
easy yeah because it's now my now my dog.
Speaker 2: Is pissed.
Speaker 3: He's easy everybody's everybody's another another perfect guess a player
where everyone's angry at themselves in.
Speaker 4: THE World i i'm.
Speaker 3: Just gonna ask for the next CLUE because i gotta leave.
Speaker 5: It is the. Last, CLUE okay i FEEL like i
should make you throw out some Names and i'll lay
out some things here from three fourteen points eight and a,
half boards you know that's that's A? Big uh top
ten And six man Of the year, voting? Nothing grant what.
Speaker 2: Is the matter? WITH us i. Don't know this is
so this is. So bad they shouldn't have Played, with,
wait no.
Speaker 4: There's connection? WHAT'S happening.
Speaker 2: I was, gonna say yon, maheem me who doesn't make?
Any sense what's.
Speaker 4: He played For? The wizards so?
Speaker 3: That?
Speaker 2: Helps uh did he Play With Kirk. HI regules i don't.
Speaker 3: Think so.
Speaker 5: Final clue.
Speaker 4: Yeah please.
Speaker 5: One of my nick names Is the Mayor. Of milwaukee
another Is. Crazy eyes.
Speaker 2: This isn't helping me. At all the.
Speaker 4: Teams are messing. Me Up Like bobby portis comes, to
mind but it's like That's not the teams are. All
wrong is that? The desk sure you?
Speaker 3: Dot, It Wait bobby portis played For the wizards And.
The knicks dam and turn your mic ON so i
can hear your.
Speaker 2: Euro upset wait he played For the wizards when.
Speaker 3: This happened, I'M oh i have zero Memory Of.
Speaker 4: Bobby.
Speaker 1: Portis, yeah wow he was there for twenty. Eight games
he spent the half. Season there oh, my god.
Speaker 2: So that Was.
Speaker 3: The bulls it Was the bulls because of the heinrich,
OF it. I could i still don't know what college
he went to IN, the Sec.
Speaker 1: But bobby portis Went. To arkin, oh no he went, To.
YEAH arkansas i didn't EVEN know i was IN the Sec.
Speaker 5: From, arkansas.
Speaker 2: Wow unbelievable i'm really upset. Right now this is just
ruined my entire.
Speaker 4: TEAMS that i, JUST like i can't see him In
a Wizards Or.
Speaker 1: Knicks jersey those were two really good guess of players
to close out on the moral of.
Speaker 2: The story everyone Go.
Speaker 1: Follow andrew thank him for all the work that. He's
doing he's helped us out A ton this. Was great
we'll have to do this again because it was interesting
working through guess.
Speaker 2: Of players with. Multiple people that.
Speaker 3: Was. Fun, yeah YouTube so, just struggle just just to
watch the.
Speaker 4: Pained expressions that's what this is.
Speaker 2: All.
Speaker 4: About though you can't one shot kill.
Speaker 2: Them all. They can't.
Speaker 4: We can't we Can't Be tony road and. Every, time,
uh incredible. Incredible, debut yeah.
Speaker 2: That's, incredible, yeah sure that. Was amazing Thank, You.
Speaker 3: Andrew Thank, You dan thank you everyone, for listening. For
watching do all the things, rate, review subscribe tell, your
friends tell. Your enemies do on our discord where you
can get the sheets to submit guess the players if
you would like to make us suffer in, the future
or you would like us to, embarrass you as.
Speaker 4: The case, may be because sometimes we. Do it that's gonna.
Speaker 2: Do it.
Speaker 4: Thanks guys Shouting To Frank milking apologies care nol