Speaker 1: This is the Baseline discussing the hot button topics of.
Speaker 2: The nb A.
Speaker 1: Welcome everybody, your tune to the baseline Cali Warrant shot
Speaker 1: discussing hot button topics of the NBA.
Speaker 2: We are kicking.
Speaker 1: Off this week's show because the NBA Cup is finally hit,
Speaker 1: the Emirates Cup. Okay, it's big, it's grand Rosario Dawson's in.
Speaker 1: I mean, damn, Michael Imperioli is is speaking right like,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. It's on, it's popping, it's soprano,
Speaker 1: it's sopranos meets he is, he got game. It's just
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. It's beautiful, it's magnificent. And
Speaker 1: of course, what would be a discussion about the second
Speaker 1: NBA Cup without the baseline boys talking about it. Let
Speaker 1: me go out and roll out the red carpet to
Speaker 1: the right hand man Www. Dot sh sports at net
Speaker 1: big on the you see my man, mister Warres show
Speaker 1: rapping out Fort Londo, Florida. What's good, my man? I
Speaker 1: know you are so amped up, you are so excited.
Speaker 1: No politics, pure talk, NBA Cup, it's own baby.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's let's tell that joint let's sell it. It
Speaker 3: is not going anyway. So it's one of those things
Speaker 3: as the tide of advertisement kind of flows over and
Speaker 3: washes over us, you know, in the Adam Silver NBA,
Speaker 3: like it's not going anywhere. So while there was I
Speaker 3: think a little bit better understanding of it for this
Speaker 3: for the second go around, now they got sponsorps, you know, sponsorship,
Speaker 3: shout out the Emirates. I don't know that it's still
Speaker 3: if it is hitting where everybody wants it, because as
Speaker 3: you alluded too off air, and we can get into this,
Speaker 3: like briefly, technically, the two best teams do not perform
Speaker 3: well enough to be in the in the NBA.
Speaker 1: I don't know what well enough is supposed to mean.
Speaker 1: Weren't they three and one or something like that. What
Speaker 1: what's well enough for three.
Speaker 3: And one the calf or two and two. You know,
Speaker 3: they only have four losses on the entire year, but
Speaker 3: they lost two of those in the Cup and then
Speaker 3: therefore the Celtics were not in. Based on whatever the
Speaker 3: tiebreaker was between Orlando and the Knicks. Orlando didn't lose
Speaker 3: by twenty six points, so that allowed them to take
Speaker 3: the tiebreaker over Boston from what My understanding of all
Speaker 3: of this is despite having identical in three and one
Speaker 3: records either way, the two best teams are not in
Speaker 3: the semi finals for this joint, which in some ways
Speaker 3: is good and in some ways I think is bad
Speaker 3: as well too, because it allows other teams to get exposure.
Speaker 3: You know, I think you could go back to last
Speaker 3: year the Indiana Pacers and and Tireo's Haliburn, that magical
Speaker 3: run they had, although they didn't capture the flag there
Speaker 3: if you will, they were able to get to the
Speaker 3: NBA to the NBA Cup Finals, if you will, and
Speaker 3: lose to the to the Los Angeles Clapers, and now
Speaker 3: you have some other teams in there looking Orlando's I
Speaker 3: think is kind of like this year's Indiana looking for
Speaker 3: that kind of that pseudo validation as a young team
Speaker 3: that's up and coming.
Speaker 1: Oh, you can also make the argument about Dahlanta Hawks,
Speaker 1: but I'd agress. There are teams that we will be
Speaker 1: quickly discussing shortly as far as you know our previews
Speaker 1: and predictions with regards to this year's Emirates NBA Cup.
Speaker 2: So you know, all of that is will and good.
Speaker 1: And then also on this week's show, you know, Shaw,
Speaker 1: you know's mind was working, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: you know, burning the midnight oil, thinking has the NBA
Speaker 1: become too infatuated with the three? Or has the game
Speaker 1: of basketball become too infatuated with the three? And I
Speaker 1: think it marked you know, it warrants you know, a
Speaker 1: pretty good conversation to be had. So Sean and I
Speaker 1: will kind of dig in a little bit on where
Speaker 1: we are with this, you know, with today's NBA in
Speaker 1: comparison to you know, our yester generations right and and
Speaker 1: figure out like, is there a problem with the NBA
Speaker 1: and the propensity of the three ball really kind of
Speaker 1: hijacking you know, the beauty of the game being played?
Speaker 1: And I think that warrants a good conversation to be had.
Speaker 1: So good stuff to be discussed on this week's edition.
Speaker 2: Of the Baseline.
Speaker 1: As always, be sure to get in my man Shaw
Speaker 1: Ashaws Sports, NBA Get at Me a game face leader
Speaker 1: shows Twitter hand on NBA basedline available on all the
Speaker 1: major platforms. You know where to find us, be sure
Speaker 1: to go to www. Dot the Baseline NBA dot com.
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Speaker 1: you name it. Nineteen Media Group has got it. So Shaw,
Speaker 1: let's get right into it, man and the Emirates NBA Cup.
Speaker 1: The knockout Round will begin this week, starting in November.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry not but I think it's December. December, the
Speaker 1: tenth Okay, So the knockout round will be as follows. Yes, clearly,
Speaker 1: the knockout round we'll go as followed. The Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: Thunder will take on the Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets will
Speaker 1: take on the Golden State Warriors, Milwaukee Bucks will take
Speaker 1: on Orlando Magic, and the New York Knicks will take
Speaker 1: on the Atlanta Hawks.
Speaker 2: I will say this.
Speaker 1: Real quick, Shaw, these are some pretty good matchups, right.
Speaker 1: I like the matchup between the Thunder and the Dallas Mavericks.
Speaker 1: I find that the Rockets and the Golden State Warriors
Speaker 1: is a very interesting matchup in and of itself. I
Speaker 1: think people should pay attention to and the Knicks and
Speaker 1: the Hawks, while you know, you feel like there's a
Speaker 1: level of a rivalry there, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of like because the Hawks, you know,
Speaker 1: we've been down on the Hawks so much that it's
Speaker 1: hard to see whether or not, like the Knicks not
Speaker 1: giving an inch to the Hawks. But listen, the Hawks.
Speaker 1: They're one of those teams like one minute they're on,
Speaker 1: next minute, you know they're cold, right, And then I
Speaker 1: know we're gonna get into our conversation with the Bucks
Speaker 1: in the Orlando Magic, which I think could have been
Speaker 1: a which would have been hopefully a really, really really
Speaker 1: good contest. But you know, an important injury that we've
Speaker 1: obviously just learned is impacted that. So I think that
Speaker 1: there's some interesting matchups here with regards to that. But
Speaker 1: to your point and what you alluded to, the fact
Speaker 1: that the two best teams in the NBA arguably are
Speaker 1: not participating in this NBA Cup, And I get it,
Speaker 1: you know, you got to win the games, you know,
Speaker 1: within the Cup. You know, again, I'll get into my
Speaker 1: you know, soliloquily or get on my soapbox on this
Speaker 1: some other time. You know, with the way this thing
Speaker 1: is still being set up, with with how this plays it,
Speaker 1: it's just kind of interesting to me that we're gonna
Speaker 1: be playing. You know, there's gonna be a Cup being
Speaker 1: had without those guys, because I think if you inserted
Speaker 1: either of these two teams in any one of these
Speaker 1: other particular matchups, maybe say take out the Magic or
Speaker 1: maybe take out the Hawks, maybe take out the Rockets,
Speaker 1: or you know what I'm saying, like those are gonna
Speaker 1: be some really really intriguing matchups that probably could be had.
Speaker 1: But I again, out of these that I've mentioned, which
Speaker 1: one are you really keeping your eye on and saying, hmm,
Speaker 1: this is definitely one with whoever comes out of this,
Speaker 1: you gotta be hard pressed not to think that they'll
Speaker 1: be the favorite.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna go by the aspect of what was
Speaker 3: what last year's Western Conference in my finals, OKAC and
Speaker 3: the Dallas Mavericks. I think that's gonna be the most
Speaker 3: amount of fun. Both teams are relatively healthy, while the
Speaker 3: even OKC does not have Cheded Holmgren, you know, but
Speaker 3: they do have heart and sign back and he's been
Speaker 3: playing really great, I mean the crap out of the
Speaker 3: basketball since since returning. I'm in Okacs is on pace
Speaker 3: for a historic defensive season in addition to all the
Speaker 3: Macineese since they have in terms of the overall at depth.
Speaker 3: So for me, Okayse and Dallas is the premier matchup
Speaker 3: I think of the of the semi finals right now.
Speaker 3: And while I'll obviously have a lot of interest in
Speaker 3: what happens in Atlanta and New York and Houston and
Speaker 3: Golden States, which with Houston, you know, rising in the
Speaker 3: Western Conference in a faster way than the many. With thought,
Speaker 3: can they take out the old guard with the Warriors
Speaker 3: who had such a quick heart start hot start to
Speaker 3: the season but now have kind of come back to earth,
Speaker 3: but played well enough in the NBA Cup to kind
Speaker 3: of capture you know, what's he here in the semifinals.
Speaker 3: So for me, okay, see Dallas by far and away
Speaker 3: the premier matchup of the first four games of the
Speaker 3: semi finals, and then we'll see what happens once once
Speaker 3: those teams get to the finals.
Speaker 2: From there, yeah, I like the Rockets and the Warriors.
Speaker 1: But to your point, the okay, see Thunder and Dallas Mavericks,
Speaker 1: I think is a key matchup. I'll be honest with you,
Speaker 1: shall I think whoever comes out of the West between
Speaker 1: those two matchups I think might be to me the
Speaker 1: front runner to one of winning at all because I
Speaker 1: just look at the rosters up and down, and I know,
Speaker 1: like a lot of people, they probably are looking at
Speaker 1: the Knicks, probably looking at the Milwaukee Bucks, who've been,
Speaker 1: you know, on an uptick. But I just feel like
Speaker 1: from a defensive perspective, you really can't go wrong with
Speaker 1: all four of those teams.
Speaker 2: Coming out of the West.
Speaker 1: I think the Warriors play pretty good defense, the Rockets
Speaker 1: certainly can play solid defense, and they've got the bodies.
Speaker 1: The Mavericks they're battle tested. It's just I think a
Speaker 1: question whether or not you know, they really really want it,
Speaker 1: like you know, they want to win this NBA Cup,
Speaker 1: and whoever they play against coming out of the East,
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a you know, basically a
Speaker 1: battle of attrition so to speak. You know, coming into
Speaker 1: that championship game between the Knicks and the Bucks, which
Speaker 1: I think people are gonna say those are going to
Speaker 1: be the two to advance in the semifinals out of
Speaker 1: the East. You know, which of those really top to bottom,
Speaker 1: you know, are gonna come out unscathed and be fully
Speaker 1: healthy ready to go to play in that championship game.
Speaker 1: You know, I like the New York Knicks and that one,
Speaker 1: you know, to come out just because I think from
Speaker 1: a team perspective, they just have a better well rounded team.
Speaker 1: I think they get a little bit more from their
Speaker 1: bench from a depth perspective. But you never know, you know,
Speaker 1: the Bucks can ride a hot hand and if you
Speaker 1: have a dominant gianis Attatakumpo, which you can make the
Speaker 1: argument shall with all of the remainder remaining teams, but
Speaker 1: the exception of of Shae gilisund Alexander and I think
Speaker 1: Kyrie Irving maybe not more so than Luka Donkis because
Speaker 1: I think Luka Donkis is still not one hundred percent,
Speaker 1: and I don't think he's worried about whether or not
Speaker 1: he's got to be one hundred percent. If I just
Speaker 1: think if you have a dominant Janis Attatakoumpo, which is
Speaker 1: just running rough shot through the whole thing, Yeah, the
Speaker 1: Bucks definitely have a chance to take it. But I
Speaker 1: I don't see it enough. I don't see it enough
Speaker 1: with consistency to buy into the Bucks, you know, and
Speaker 1: you know, taking it all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't disagree. You know, if we want to
Speaker 3: skip ahead a little bit too, I think this is okay.
Speaker 3: Sees Cup to lose, like they're built for regular season
Speaker 3: and postseason success. And I think what we're what we're
Speaker 3: seeing or hearing from is that a lot of these
Speaker 3: younger teams are utilizing the Cup as their playoff preparation
Speaker 3: in terms of the level of intensity that you're playing
Speaker 3: for something, you know what I mean, there's there's there
Speaker 3: is a trullion end goal at the end of this
Speaker 3: dollar amount and obviously the opportunity to raise a banner.
Speaker 3: So call it if you will, into your arena at
Speaker 3: some point too. But they're just bragging rights and pride
Speaker 3: that come along with this. And okay, see as a
Speaker 3: team that is looking to take steps outside of the
Speaker 3: Cup and actually win the actual NBA championship, Blair O'Brian,
Speaker 3: I think they're probably the best poison in essens to
Speaker 3: do that and set up set up for this, for this,
Speaker 3: for this win right here too. However, the Lakers, sorry
Speaker 3: they led Lakers. The league gets very lucky. Is never that, okay,
Speaker 3: but they have The league gets very lucky in terms
Speaker 3: that they have another legacy guy or team in there
Speaker 3: right now with the Warriors still finding their way to
Speaker 3: be in this. So they love nothing more than Curry
Speaker 3: and and and Shay to kind of go up in
Speaker 3: the West Finals, if you will, and then maybe Curry
Speaker 3: to get it into the into the overall Cup finals
Speaker 3: against who are from the East. What I'm seeing, though,
Speaker 3: you know, if we can jump around a little bit though,
Speaker 3: is Atlanta is on a wave right now. They're playing
Speaker 3: extremely great basketball. Enough can't be said about what Trey
Speaker 3: Young is doing as a leader. We've always we said, hey,
Speaker 3: we want you to be more than just kind of
Speaker 3: like the stat padding individual. Because he's always been up
Speaker 3: there to second or third in assists like every single year,
Speaker 3: but it just felt a little bit empty. He really
Speaker 3: is making guys better. The emergence of Jalen Johnson as
Speaker 3: a secondary playmaker in addition to a rebounder and a
Speaker 3: score I think has been immense. What they're getting out
Speaker 3: of reshould say, you know, to a lesser extent, Bogdanovich
Speaker 3: is now back and healthy, DeAndre Hunter, Dyson Daniels. Atlanta's
Speaker 3: really really kind of like the hottest of the teams,
Speaker 3: especially in the Eastern Conference that I think right now
Speaker 3: as we're recording the play games, see I keep their
Speaker 3: winning streak alive. But they've beaten Milwaukee this year, They've
Speaker 3: beaten the Knicks this year. I would not count them
Speaker 3: out in the season that a lot of people did
Speaker 3: count them out in, and if Trey Young and company
Speaker 3: can continue that, I wouldn't be surprised to see them
Speaker 3: in the Cup Final.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Again, last year we saw that with the Pacers. Right,
Speaker 1: you beat the right team, you catch them in the
Speaker 1: right time, and if your style of basketball, which I
Speaker 1: think in many regards what you see from the Atlanta
Speaker 1: Hawks kind of similar to what you saw last year
Speaker 1: from the Indiana Pacers. And while the Pacers are a
Speaker 1: team that currently clearly is struggling, I think that's more
Speaker 1: of the players than it is really, you know, the
Speaker 1: style of basketball, because I think they enjoy playing and
Speaker 1: it's just not it's not equating to the level of
Speaker 1: wins that they were able to amass last season. The
Speaker 1: Atlanta Hawks, I think are just now entering in that
Speaker 1: space where this style of basketball is now catching on
Speaker 1: with them, or they're catching up to this style of basketball.
Speaker 1: I think this is where Quinn Snyder always wanted to go.
Speaker 1: But did you have enough players who has the maturity
Speaker 1: in order to execute this style of offense that they're
Speaker 1: playing it right? And again, I'm sure everybody is going
Speaker 1: to be predicted the New York Knicks to basically walk
Speaker 1: through into the semi finals playing this Atlanta Hawks team
Speaker 1: because you look at the roster and the Knicks clearly
Speaker 1: can be a better team defensively, they can clearly have
Speaker 1: they have more playmakers, but they also have their struggles
Speaker 1: where they're able to get everybody on the same page
Speaker 1: and get everybody involved in everybody contributing.
Speaker 2: And if you're the.
Speaker 1: Atlanta Hawks and you're in your zone with what you do,
Speaker 1: what you execute offensively, getting the most out of Jail
Speaker 1: and getting the most out of Rischiusheer, getting the most
Speaker 1: out of Chrey Young's ability to make those guys better.
Speaker 2: Yes, I completely agree with you.
Speaker 1: I think that they can catch the Knicks, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, on a fast one over the course
Speaker 1: of a seven game series, though, that'd be tough. But
Speaker 1: if you want to, if you want to embolden you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, you really want to instill confidence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: have them come out there and put one on the
Speaker 1: New York Knicks. And I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: what this will also do will start questioning again, are
Speaker 1: the Knicks ready to take that next step? Because you
Speaker 1: can't be losing again teams like the Atlanta Hawks, which
Speaker 1: clearly on paper you look like you should be the
Speaker 1: better team anyway.
Speaker 2: But again, this is why you do these This is
Speaker 2: why you have the NBA Cup.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean for me, you know when you talk
Speaker 3: about I don't know. I don't know if we're at
Speaker 3: a stage where winning the NBA Cup is setting some
Speaker 3: symblans of a message to the league, right, because look
Speaker 3: what happened to the Lakers last year. But I do
Speaker 3: feel like there's a lot of pride, especially for these
Speaker 3: for some of these younger teams, and for all intentsive purposes,
Speaker 3: right the Thunder, the MAVs, the Warriors, to maybe a
Speaker 3: lesser extent, all have championship aspirations in the Western Conference. Orlando,
Speaker 3: we know, was trying to surprise some teams, but now
Speaker 3: with Fronz Wagner suffering the same injury that Paulo ben
Speaker 3: Carroll has with the oblique, Orlando's probably going to be
Speaker 3: counted out of actually winning this thing. But we also
Speaker 3: have Milwaukee up in this joint and with the Knicks
Speaker 3: up in this So for all intentsive purposes, there are
Speaker 3: five teams who came into the league, came into the
Speaker 3: season rather with championship aspirations. Whether they were you know,
Speaker 3: you wanted to believe in them or not, they believed
Speaker 3: in them. And I don't think Orlando feel like they're
Speaker 3: championship team, so that's why I'm kinding them out. In
Speaker 3: Atlanto certainly not, and Houston obviously not as well too.
Speaker 3: But I think those other teams feel like, hey, things
Speaker 3: break right, we could have been here.
Speaker 1: So who do you think So who do you think
Speaker 1: needs it more? Right, Like of these teams that were
Speaker 1: saying what.
Speaker 3: I'm getting to, right, So, I think it's it's the
Speaker 3: aspect of if if, if you if if you're looking
Speaker 3: for it to be a message. I think Okay, See
Speaker 3: probably needs it the most, right, especially as a younger
Speaker 3: team that is that was a number one seed in
Speaker 3: the Western Conference is right now the number one seed
Speaker 3: in the Western Conference again to kind of show like, hey,
Speaker 3: we can get over those proverbial mental hurdles and so
Speaker 3: forth and win kind of that I wouldn't say the
Speaker 3: highest stage, but at an elevated stage, right. And then
Speaker 3: I think who I know is going to be going
Speaker 3: for it the most is probably the Knicks because of
Speaker 3: TIBs and his overall just overall, his his machismo, if
Speaker 3: you will, and he's going to play all the minutes
Speaker 3: for all the guys. I don't know what's going on
Speaker 3: with Karl athink Town. I know we missed a game
Speaker 3: versus Pistons over the weekend. I assume he'll be back,
Speaker 3: you know, for the Cup, and that shouldn't be much
Speaker 3: of a much of an issue. But I think those
Speaker 3: are the two teams are going to be gunning for
Speaker 3: the hardest if you will, that are realistic in terms
Speaker 3: of have a chance to make it to their conference
Speaker 3: finals and then ultimately the NBA Finals as well. But again,
Speaker 3: I think Atlanta is probably feel of the most disrespected
Speaker 3: out of all this group here too. And I don't
Speaker 3: want to forget about you.
Speaker 1: Well, and that's okay, so real quick, because you know
Speaker 1: I know that you know, we obviously have that big
Speaker 1: conversation we want to have about the three. But as
Speaker 1: much as I think you're to what you're saying that
Speaker 1: OKC needs this more to win the Cup, I honestly
Speaker 1: feel they just need this game.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think they need to Yeah, I just think they
Speaker 1: need to beat the Dallas Mavericks. Whether the Dallas Mavericks
Speaker 1: want to go for this or not, I think this
Speaker 1: is more about okac's ability to say we are ready
Speaker 1: to play you under whatever those circumstances are. And I think, look,
Speaker 1: if they beat the Dallas Mavericks, I think you have
Speaker 1: a whole lot of confidence riding that they should be
Speaker 1: able to go through and ultimately win this. We know
Speaker 1: that the other teams are going to be a problem
Speaker 1: for them, but I'm just saying to me, I think
Speaker 1: their NBA Cup starts in this knockout round with the
Speaker 1: Dallas Mavericks, and I think the team that I think
Speaker 1: needs to win it all is the team that you
Speaker 1: just mentioned last Atlanta Hawks, because of the fact that
Speaker 1: they have been disrespected because it's not been what four
Speaker 1: or five years removed they were playing in the Eastern
Speaker 1: Conference Finals, you know what I'm saying, And since then
Speaker 1: they've been nothing but going downhill. And I think if
Speaker 1: you really want to validate the idea that you went
Speaker 1: through the transition of moving on for McMillan, going in
Speaker 1: with Snyder, having you know, making that big move to
Speaker 1: get Deontay Murray, then moving him out, leaving staying with
Speaker 1: Trey Young, and then you know, I'm not saying tanking,
Speaker 1: but ultimately landing this first round pick using that to
Speaker 1: get a foreign born player, right, rather than probably getting
Speaker 1: a couple of other players that may be more solid
Speaker 1: for what Quinn may have wanted.
Speaker 2: Maybe Quinn wants Richards Shre don't know.
Speaker 1: All I'm saying is there are a lot of things
Speaker 1: where there could be question marks, and the level of
Speaker 1: disrespect certainly hangs over the head of the Atlanta Hawks,
Speaker 1: that I think by getting into this they, more than anyone,
Speaker 1: should be motivated to run through everyone because you've got
Speaker 1: teams lined up who everyone else believes are gonna wind
Speaker 1: up being better than you by the end of the year.
Speaker 1: And if you go in and you win this Cup,
Speaker 1: you will basically make a statement to the Eastern Conference
Speaker 1: that we may be the team that you should not
Speaker 1: be sleeping on if we continue to keep hanging around
Speaker 1: by the time we start talking about playoff seeds or
Speaker 1: going by trade deadline, you know. So that was my
Speaker 1: take on that as far as what who I see
Speaker 1: needs it more and who I think needs it most.
Speaker 3: I think the least likely, based on the injury right now,
Speaker 3: is Orlando, you know, even getting past Milwaukee and then
Speaker 3: ultimately into the final of the Cup, right I think
Speaker 3: that's the least likely scenario. But I can take the
Speaker 3: ride with you, you know, on Atlanta in terms of their
Speaker 3: of their feelings of disrespect and then also the aspect
Speaker 3: of how much it could propel them going forward into
Speaker 3: the season. As they arrived this, you know, I think
Speaker 3: they're on a five or six game winning streak as
Speaker 3: we record right now. If they're able to extend that,
Speaker 3: you know, seven eight games if you will, Hey, then
Speaker 3: that means there are their NBA Cup Champs potentially on
Speaker 3: the other side of the bracket. A similar conversation could
Speaker 3: be had about the Houston Rockets. Yes, and you know
Speaker 3: when in terms of their own feelings of validation of
Speaker 3: winning on XYZ stage, Like Boston didn't make the Cup
Speaker 3: final last year, they got beat you know, in the
Speaker 3: knockout round I guess against the Indiana Pacers, right, and
Speaker 3: then ultimately they instill went on to win the NBA Championship.
Speaker 3: So I think certain teams don't need that level of validation.
Speaker 2: I do think it's kind of funny.
Speaker 1: I do think it's funny that you brought up the
Speaker 1: Celtics because remember, the Pacers beat the Celtics, but the
Speaker 1: Celtics beat the Pacers in the East Conference finals. Yes,
Speaker 1: albeit the Pacers were now one hundred percent, but nevertheless,
Speaker 1: I'm sure the Pacers would wish that they were able
Speaker 1: to they could switch places.
Speaker 2: You can have the Cup, we want to go to
Speaker 2: the NBA shows, Yeah.
Speaker 3: For sure. But I mean I think in terms of
Speaker 3: everything we thought was gonna happen for Nian, the last
Speaker 3: year didn't necessarily happen for Indiana last year in the
Speaker 3: way that it was projecting like they were coming out
Speaker 3: like world beaters. Then they kind of, you know, for
Speaker 3: some people's taste, if you will, got lucky in terms
Speaker 3: of their draws with a lot of people being injured
Speaker 3: in terms of how they ran up things, and then
Speaker 3: ultimately ran up against the Boston Celtics team that was
Speaker 3: relatively healthy. Then they got hurt themselves. Right, But I
Speaker 3: think Houston and Atlanta are looking at opportunities here now
Speaker 3: to say, like, hey, as young teams that nobody expected
Speaker 3: to be here, can we go out here, get to
Speaker 3: the Cup final? One of us win this thing, and
Speaker 3: what does that now do for the rest of our
Speaker 3: projections for the regular season, assuming health for both teams.
Speaker 3: I'm excited for this. I'm just worried about Houston's ability
Speaker 3: to score the basketball, especially at this elevated stage. I
Speaker 3: don't want to say the highest sage, but that's elevated stage,
Speaker 3: you know. Will it be Jyllan Green, will it be Shangun,
Speaker 3: will be Van Vleet, I don't I don't know, but
Speaker 3: they got to get past first, and I think that's
Speaker 3: a tall.
Speaker 1: Order, absolutely, especially with the way that the Warriors play,
Speaker 1: you know, defensively. But you know, you're catching the Warriors
Speaker 1: who have been struggling over the last few games.
Speaker 2: I think they've lost the last three of their five.
Speaker 3: But then they be Houston.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they go figure right without that, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure I'm sure they're a static like, oh,
Speaker 1: what away for us to help get right right?
Speaker 2: The ship? Right?
Speaker 1: All right, sea, real quick, let's run through it. What
Speaker 1: are our predictions. Who's coming out of the knockouts, who's
Speaker 1: making the semis, who's making the who's making the finals,
Speaker 1: who's hoisting the ship?
Speaker 3: Yeah, after all I said and done, I am going
Speaker 3: to take okay See over Denver. I'm going to take
Speaker 3: the Rockets over the Warriors, and I'm going to take
Speaker 3: okay See over Houston to get to the Cup final.
Speaker 3: And on the east side, I'm going to take Milwaukee
Speaker 3: over Orlando kind of you know, no disrespect, just par
Speaker 3: for the course. And I'm going to take Atlanta to
Speaker 3: upset the Knicks here you know, in that. But then
Speaker 3: I'm going to actually take the Bucks to somehow get
Speaker 3: past all the things we just said. All these are
Speaker 3: all hypotheticals. I think Giannis and Dame have something that
Speaker 3: they are. They also want to prove doc Rivers as well.
Speaker 3: They just got Milton back. I think they end up
Speaker 3: in the Cup final against Okay see, but I'm gonna
Speaker 3: take the thunder to win this joint nice.
Speaker 2: I like it. I like it. I like it.
Speaker 1: Your tune to the Baseline Callie Warrenshaw discussing the hot
Speaker 1: button topics.
Speaker 2: Of the NBA coming up.
Speaker 1: Has the NBA three or has the NBA gotten too
Speaker 1: happy with the three? I think it's time that we
Speaker 1: actually have this conversation. I don't know, maybe it's time
Speaker 1: that we actually have to have an intervention, a three
Speaker 1: vention in regards to this conversation, right, like, is it
Speaker 1: too much?
Speaker 2: Is it too much?
Speaker 1: Sewan and I will dig into it. But first, are
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Speaker 1: dot com slash LP nineteen mg. More baseline Cali Warrenshaw,
Speaker 1: don't go anywhere. We are back Cali Warrenshaw baseline NBA Podcasts,
Speaker 1: and our main breakdown topic is centered around an interesting
Speaker 1: conversation that is being had now. I know, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure Sean you probably also know this as well too.
Speaker 1: This is not a conversation that is new. I think
Speaker 1: this conversation has been had a couple of times. But
Speaker 1: I think as we start, you know, really looking at
Speaker 1: where the landscape of the NBA is now, especially as
Speaker 1: we're on the precipice of this new TV deal that
Speaker 1: the NBA has landed, I think a good question that
Speaker 1: we should be asking is, you know, are we in
Speaker 1: a space where the popularity of the game and how
Speaker 1: the game is played is viable with the expectations of
Speaker 1: what this NBA deal is And in other words, in
Speaker 1: Layman's term, has the NBA gotten three happy? Is there
Speaker 1: too much of an infatuation of the players the style
Speaker 1: of the play where the three ball takes precedence and
Speaker 1: in doing so, is that taking away from the aesthetics
Speaker 1: of people's enjoyment of watching again following the game, the
Speaker 1: popularity of the game continually moving up. I think it
Speaker 1: brings a lot of things into Playshaw And this is
Speaker 1: probably as good a time as any for us to
Speaker 1: have this conversation because you and I, as being transgenerational
Speaker 1: followers of this game, we have seen the evolution of
Speaker 1: where the game of the NBA only had the three
Speaker 1: point shot as a necessity. Now it is primal and
Speaker 1: literally it is the foundation for all teams to essentially
Speaker 1: become successful because of the way and the style of
Speaker 1: the game being played.
Speaker 3: The style of the NBA, as you alluded to, especially
Speaker 3: for us as obviously it's changed a lot. I mean
Speaker 3: we can go back to, you know, our days watching
Speaker 3: the league early days, then playing some video games, and
Speaker 3: then you know, guys who could shoot threes were almost
Speaker 3: like cheat codes if you were playing certain certain games
Speaker 3: or wherever the case it be.
Speaker 1: I mean, they designed the cheat codes for these cats
Speaker 1: to shoot the three.
Speaker 3: That's how you know, I'll remember. I think it was
Speaker 3: Dale Ellis, you know what I mean. Dale Ellis used
Speaker 3: to be like ridiculous and Chuck Person, the rifleman back
Speaker 3: from the Indiana Pacers. As everybody knows about Reggie Miller, right,
Speaker 3: but how many people know about Chuck Percy, know without
Speaker 3: what he was out there like gunsling in that thing
Speaker 3: from three and more recently the NBA on T and
Speaker 3: T crew. I think Charles Barkley, you know, he came
Speaker 3: out and said, I'll paraphrase his quotes, just you know,
Speaker 3: fans are not just going to want to go out
Speaker 3: there and see a bunch of guys jack up threes.
Speaker 3: You know, guys don't shoot layups. They don't they don't
Speaker 3: do mid range anymore. It's just a matter of strategy
Speaker 3: right now. If you shoot threes, we win. If we
Speaker 3: don't shoot threes, we lose. And he doesn't feel like
Speaker 3: that's his strategy, and that is catching a little bit
Speaker 3: of fire, you know, as the league's ratings are downs,
Speaker 3: and you know we have this big TV deal. I think,
Speaker 3: as you're alluding to as well too, like that's coming
Speaker 3: up here. People are still invested in the business of
Speaker 3: the NBA, still want to be involved, but fans are
Speaker 3: tuning out air quote, so to speak. But I don't
Speaker 3: know if it's so much as a matter of the
Speaker 3: amount of threes and maybe that's some of it, but
Speaker 3: will present some data here that kind of would negate
Speaker 3: some of that. But is it also the is there
Speaker 3: too many games? Because football is you know, once a
Speaker 3: week and you know you have the those eighteen weeks
Speaker 3: that you go through in the NFL season to see
Speaker 3: your team, and the same thing on the college side
Speaker 3: or whatever. Whether there's eighty two in basketball, what is
Speaker 3: the one to sixty two? You know in baseball? Like
Speaker 3: it just might be too much content that that the
Speaker 3: NBA is trying to put out there that fans are
Speaker 3: not tuning into. But the flip side of that too,
Speaker 3: outside of the threes is do we have still the
Speaker 3: proverbial star power? And I think that's something that is
Speaker 3: as big of a as big as a motivating factor
Speaker 3: for league ratings as anything else. While you and I
Speaker 3: are predisposed and kind of have to watch this like
Speaker 3: we we are going to be we have a basically
Speaker 3: have a basketball podcast, so we're going to follow it
Speaker 3: as closely as possible. So we know Sga is dope,
Speaker 3: We know Luca is dope, and and and and Yoker
Speaker 3: Joker is dope as well too. But Luca, and and
Speaker 3: and and Joker. They don't necessarily want to be faces
Speaker 3: of the league. Giannis as well too, like, hey, he's cool,
Speaker 3: but he's not really trying to be out there like that.
Speaker 3: So when it comes to the ratings things, it's more
Speaker 3: than just a three point shooting. It's all of those
Speaker 3: things that I think are impact in the league at
Speaker 3: its at its at its kind of inflection point here too.
Speaker 3: But three point shooting I think is getting the biggest
Speaker 3: bulk of the of the attention and the fault because
Speaker 3: you see the Celtics out here now shooting fifty to
Speaker 3: fifty five to three is a game, and now everybody
Speaker 3: is kind of doing the same thing here so far
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four. But the data doesn't really seem
Speaker 3: to impact it in a way negatively that I think
Speaker 3: some others are saying.
Speaker 1: So we were having this conversation off the off the air,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying Shaw as far as what
Speaker 1: about it is creating the level of uproar, and I
Speaker 1: think I want to make sure that as we're recording
Speaker 1: this that I provide you the level of comparison that
Speaker 1: I made with the with football, right, and I want
Speaker 1: people to understand this because I am a proponent of
Speaker 1: a team executing knowing who they are and what they are.
Speaker 1: And if that's who you are, then be who you are, right,
Speaker 1: go out there and be exactly who you are.
Speaker 2: If you're the Boston Celtics and.
Speaker 1: You have a roster of guys who believe that they
Speaker 1: can shoot and make the number of threes that they
Speaker 1: throw up, I have no problem with buying in the
Speaker 1: idea that this is who you are and this is
Speaker 1: how you are. But if you're telling me that you're
Speaker 1: going to win a championship, you have to make sure
Speaker 1: that you handle the things that I guess sub the submarine,
Speaker 1: what your style and strategy is, right, Like, you shure
Speaker 1: up those things. You're a good offensive rebounding team. You're
Speaker 1: a solid defensive team, right like, in other words, you
Speaker 1: minimize the other team's opportunities.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: You're a good transition defense team because if you don't
Speaker 1: make the three, the other team is going to basically
Speaker 1: rebound already off to the races. Right, all of those things.
Speaker 1: This is why the Celtics are the champions last year.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: My biggest pet feev are and shaw I think you
Speaker 1: and I we agree to this. There are some teams
Speaker 1: that are just not built like how the Celtics are built.
Speaker 1: And for whatever reason, the strategy is, You've got guys
Speaker 1: out there who and I'm not disrespecting them, maybe at
Speaker 1: some point, if this is what they want to concentrate,
Speaker 1: this is what they want to do. They want to
Speaker 1: be able to shoot, you know, eight nine threes per game,
Speaker 1: maybe making three, four, five of them per game or whatever.
Speaker 1: If that's what you aspire to do, have at it.
Speaker 1: But nowhere am I seeing that on the roster. And
Speaker 1: as far as strategy goes, some of the players on
Speaker 1: some of these teams are not built to shoot that
Speaker 1: three ball the way that they think they're They're being
Speaker 1: built right. And so now, rather than us being in
Speaker 1: awe of the Steph Curries, being in awe of the
Speaker 1: Kevin Durants being in awe of the Klay Thompson's, you
Speaker 1: got guys like.
Speaker 2: You know, LaMelo Ball shooting thirteen.
Speaker 1: Threes a night, right, Like is that what he was
Speaker 1: naturally doing when he came into the league. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, You're even forcing Chris Paul to shoot threes.
Speaker 2: Chris Paul never shot threes.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying any and everybody now it
Speaker 1: can just basically jack up a three.
Speaker 2: So now by.
Speaker 1: Doing that, we're basically taking away from the star power
Speaker 1: of what made us become enamored with why the three
Speaker 1: ball was such a great thing to see, Because those
Speaker 1: guys that were shooting it and hitting it at a
Speaker 1: high level or high propensity gets minimized when you've got
Speaker 1: forty other guys now shooting with the same number of
Speaker 1: attempts and probably only not even making a quarter of
Speaker 1: the same shots in doing it. And this, to me
Speaker 1: is where I think the problem lies. Is it sustainable
Speaker 1: for the idea of a team to go out and
Speaker 1: win a championship? If you're true to who you are,
Speaker 1: no problem. But I guarantee you, when it comes time
Speaker 1: to win an NBA championship, you cannot tell me that
Speaker 1: only shooting the three is what's gonna.
Speaker 2: Get you that chip.
Speaker 1: Just like in football, throwing for five hundred yards might
Speaker 1: sound great, but when you actually get to the playoffs,
Speaker 1: you need a legitimate running game. You need quality running attack.
Speaker 1: You need guys are gonna be able to help extend
Speaker 1: those plays. When you're passing, attack is minimized or neutralized.
Speaker 1: And so that to me is where I think things
Speaker 1: kind of tail off, is that I think there's just
Speaker 1: way too many teams who truly believe that they have
Speaker 1: a formula to be able to shoot the number of
Speaker 1: threes that teams like the Celtics, teams like the Warriors right,
Speaker 1: who are built with the roster to do those kind
Speaker 1: of things. They have no business doing that, and then
Speaker 1: because of it, they're not successful. And when they're not successful,
Speaker 1: it brings down the quality of what you're watching on
Speaker 1: TV and also brings down the quality of the matchups
Speaker 1: when you see how these teams operate and play, especially
Speaker 1: when it comes to playoff time.
Speaker 3: So does that then not become more of a coaching
Speaker 3: issue as people like the copycat league scenario continues to
Speaker 3: be where we're at. But at the same time, right,
Speaker 3: we want players to evolve. And what's the first thing
Speaker 3: we said about Gianni's Like, well, he's got to shoot
Speaker 3: the three, He's got to be able to space the
Speaker 3: floor more because people are going to pack the pain
Speaker 3: against him. So like it's it's a really interesting juxtaposition
Speaker 3: because then you can't have things both ways. And then
Speaker 3: take brook Lopez Giannis's teammate Brook Lopez, like, it's a
Speaker 3: constant example of somebody who didn't shoot any three for
Speaker 3: the first x amount of years of his career now
Speaker 3: is a pretty prolific three point shooter. And space space
Speaker 3: you use.
Speaker 2: The word prolific. You use the word prolific.
Speaker 3: Well you have, but I mean, but it's but it's
Speaker 3: the same aspect, right, like you have to you know,
Speaker 3: you crawl, then you walk, then you run. So when
Speaker 3: it comes to the three point development, especially for bigs
Speaker 3: or anybody out there, even the aspect of three and
Speaker 3: d guys, hey can you hit the corner three? It's
Speaker 3: a shorter three, So can you start take one hundred
Speaker 3: of those a day? Whatever like that? Can you get
Speaker 3: to that? Then you start to go out to the wing,
Speaker 3: to the top of the key and so forth and
Speaker 3: so forth. Right, So, I think it's really interesting because
Speaker 3: we want things both ways society and I think as
Speaker 3: analysts as well, we want people to develop. But then
Speaker 3: it's like, well, no, you're not. You're And I think
Speaker 3: to your point, it's like, well you're not ready yet.
Speaker 3: You can still try to develop those things. But if
Speaker 3: you go from zero to not taking eight or nine
Speaker 3: a game that seems a little bit egregious like that,
Speaker 3: that's that's probably too much. But I think the the
Speaker 3: natural progression is usually like hey, one or two, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, and then you kind of work
Speaker 3: your way up if things are going well. But what's
Speaker 3: really interesting to me is that the data, and this
Speaker 3: is why the league has switched to this, to this
Speaker 3: formula league wide coaches and so forth and so forth,
Speaker 3: is percentages are still largely exactly the same, you know,
Speaker 3: over the course of the year. So on our on
Speaker 3: our YouTube will be presenting you know, a little bit
Speaker 3: of something here too, you know, kind of talking about
Speaker 3: you know, NBA shooting kind of like by decade, right,
Speaker 3: and and so in the in the nineteen eighties, that's
Speaker 3: way way way back, so we needed to do that.
Speaker 3: But guys, they shot three and a half three pointers
Speaker 3: a game as a team, right, twenty eight point nine
Speaker 3: percent is where that was. Let's fast forward to more
Speaker 3: recent times tens. So twenty tens, we're now seeing twenty
Speaker 3: three point one to three point attempts per game, and
Speaker 3: guys are shooting roughly thirty five point six percent. In
Speaker 3: the twenty twenties, we're up to thirty four point eight,
Speaker 3: so call it thirty five to three point tempts a
Speaker 3: game at thirty six percent. So even the last ten
Speaker 3: years thirty five point six team as well, call it
Speaker 3: thirty six percent. The percentages are almost exactly the same.
Speaker 3: And it's to your point, cl it's interesting because like
Speaker 3: you're seeing certain guys not want like you don't feel
Speaker 3: like they should be shooting them. But we're at a
Speaker 3: stage where the percentages are not changing in a way,
Speaker 3: so why would they not shoot them? Take a guy
Speaker 3: like Brandon Miller on LaMelo's team is very interesting. You
Speaker 3: brought the Lamello up shooting thirteen threes a game. Brandon
Speaker 3: Miller is in the second year. He didn't come into
Speaker 3: this as like a three point specialist, but he's jacking
Speaker 3: up eleven threes a game. Guess what he's shooting shooting
Speaker 3: thirty six percent. The league average right now for the
Speaker 3: twenty twenties is thirty six point one. So it's really
Speaker 3: really interesting. It's like, hey, while everyone is saying these things,
Speaker 3: the dad does not necessarily backing it up in a
Speaker 3: in a real meaningful way league wide, right, I think
Speaker 3: you can say that about certain teams and certain guys
Speaker 3: for sure, But the aspect of like, hey are they
Speaker 3: shooting too many threes? Well, hey, threes are more than twos,
Speaker 3: so take more attempts at that, especially if the percentages
Speaker 3: are not going down. If we were at thirty six
Speaker 3: percent and now drop to thirty two percent, even thirty percent,
Speaker 3: I'll be all right, Well it's probably too much, but
Speaker 3: it's staying relatively in the exact same spot league wide.
Speaker 1: Would I would be interested Shaw, And again, you know,
Speaker 1: I want people to understand this isn't a conversation that
Speaker 1: we're there's not going to be any finality to this.
Speaker 1: There's actually an evolution to where this could actually lead to.
Speaker 1: I would be more interested Shaw, not just on the
Speaker 1: percentages of the attempts and the makes, but also the
Speaker 1: type of shots, the type of three point shots that
Speaker 1: are being made. Are these three point shots executed?
Speaker 2: You know? Contested? Are they open? Looks right?
Speaker 1: Because I to your point, and I think part of
Speaker 1: this to me is what I'm saying here when I
Speaker 1: say I don't have a problem with a team shooting
Speaker 1: that many threes, because what you're saying is, yes, the
Speaker 1: three is more than the two.
Speaker 2: But that's with the confidence of the shot being made.
Speaker 2: When you don't make that.
Speaker 1: Shot, what happens is what then needs to happen, Right,
Speaker 1: What is going to allow you to get another attempt
Speaker 1: to shoot that three ball that you're missed on the
Speaker 1: one previous?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: What is going to allow you to prevent the opposing
Speaker 1: team from making a shot when you're when you were
Speaker 1: expected to make that shot.
Speaker 2: And I think that's where things go differently.
Speaker 1: Right, there are some teams who because of the way
Speaker 1: that they shoot that three ball, because of the propensity
Speaker 1: of shots that are being made, which obviously means that
Speaker 1: the opposition is going to have opportunities to shoot probably
Speaker 1: as many shots as you, whether they shoot the three
Speaker 1: or shoot the two. The idea is who's going to
Speaker 1: stop who more? Who's going to prevent that person from
Speaker 1: getting that many shots more? And you look at it,
Speaker 1: the teams that are probably right now situated are equally
Speaker 1: to shoot that many threes, are as equally good defensively
Speaker 1: preventing other teams. Right, So we talk about those same
Speaker 1: teams that if they're gonna win a championship and they're
Speaker 1: gonna shoot up that many threes. If you're talking about
Speaker 1: winning a championship. Your defense has gotta be solid enough
Speaker 1: to prevent the other team from making those threes or
Speaker 1: preventing the teams from getting that many shot attempts up.
Speaker 1: On a nightly basis, your goal is to shoot more
Speaker 1: shots than the other team, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And it's just interesting to me because it's easy for
Speaker 1: the coaches to go out there and send the guy
Speaker 1: out there by the wing or set him out by
Speaker 1: the you know what I'm saying, by the baseline shoot
Speaker 1: that three. But he can't defend worth a lick. He
Speaker 1: can't stop the other system, he can't close out, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. And then the other thing is
Speaker 1: well two shaw ball movement, right, the one thing that
Speaker 1: we can definitely say about this Celtics team, and I
Speaker 1: know this was what we talked about in the previews
Speaker 1: about why we were confident that they should win the
Speaker 1: championship last year. When you've got guys that arguably are
Speaker 1: two way type players. And when I say two A,
Speaker 1: I don't mean by defending and also shooting the three.
Speaker 1: When I say two way, I'm saying their versatility to
Speaker 1: dribble the basketball, move the ball, and also be able
Speaker 1: to get open cut when you have guys doing that
Speaker 1: right now, all four guys, not even your fifth, and
Speaker 1: your fifth literally could do that except he's.
Speaker 2: Playing on one leg.
Speaker 1: When you've got all five guys doing it, it makes
Speaker 1: it a whole lot easier, and there's a whole lot
Speaker 1: more confidence, and it looks a whole lot better when
Speaker 1: those guys are shooting those threes. When those guys may
Speaker 1: not make those threes, you can still be like, I
Speaker 1: have no problem with them going to shoot that again
Speaker 1: because I know that they can execute it, execute that
Speaker 1: play in that kind of way. And I give credit
Speaker 1: to guys like Missoula. I give credit to guys like
Speaker 1: Jason Kidd, because if you're gonna make it like this,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna execute like this, it can't be iso
Speaker 1: dribbled jack up a three.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It can't be that way. Look at the Minnesota two, Wolfshaw.
Speaker 1: That's the problem. Like that, That to me is the
Speaker 1: is the the opposite. Right, Anthony Edwards is a quality player.
Speaker 1: He's like, quote unquote the Michael Jordan of our generation
Speaker 1: with his athleticism at such a young age.
Speaker 2: But what is he doing right now? And I was
Speaker 2: just looking it up.
Speaker 1: His attempts at three right now, he's averaging almost eleven
Speaker 1: threes per game. You know what I'm saying, A guy
Speaker 1: like that that should be basically putting his gonads on
Speaker 1: people's dome on a nightly basis doesn't get the opportunity
Speaker 1: to do that because he's fixated behind the three.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's his fault.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is if the offense is executing or
Speaker 1: is being executed in that kind of way where it's
Speaker 1: basically just saying go ahead and you know, shoot the three,
Speaker 1: you're depriving us of the ability of seeing what a
Speaker 1: guy like Anthony Edwards is capable of doing. Now, if
Speaker 1: a defense defends him in that way, that's one thing.
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying when I look at a team
Speaker 1: like the Minnesota tim Wolves and I look at a
Speaker 1: team like the Boston Celtics, you can see the differences
Speaker 1: in the way that how execution is handled and how
Speaker 1: the three ball is being shot between those two teams
Speaker 1: to see who's gonna make it with more confidence and
Speaker 1: who looks better doing it, and the ones that obviously
Speaker 1: it's either out of necessity or you clearly don't have
Speaker 1: the roster set up in that kind of way that
Speaker 1: they can go out there and do what a team
Speaker 1: like the Celtics or maybe a team like the Milwaukee
Speaker 1: Bucks is currently doing when you got a Damian Lillar
Speaker 1: on your roster.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean I still think it's a matter
Speaker 3: of do you are you you? Not you?
Speaker 2: You?
Speaker 3: But the proverbial consumer are we still pigeonholing guys and
Speaker 3: just saying, well, you should not be doing this because
Speaker 3: he is you alluded to? Okay, Anthony Edwards, you have
Speaker 3: all the physical gifts in the world, Go put your
Speaker 3: gonads on people on a regular basis. But that's risky.
Speaker 3: I mean at the end of the day, and you
Speaker 3: have the whole aspect of John Moran saying that he
Speaker 3: wasn't gonna dunk anymore because he doesn't I say, he
Speaker 3: hasn't really learned how to control his body or his falls.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's great in air control, but when he
Speaker 3: gets knocked out of air, like hey, then there's nothing
Speaker 3: you can do. So it's like, why go do that?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean. I'd rather not be in
Speaker 3: there on a regular basis. I'd rather shoot the three,
Speaker 3: especially if I can get enough reps where my release
Speaker 3: and my touch become prolific in a way that I
Speaker 3: can at least shoot league average. So while it's all
Speaker 3: the things, Anthony Edwards is like almost double his three
Speaker 3: point attempts per game or whatever it is, he's still
Speaker 3: shooting around league average. Is what it is. And that's
Speaker 3: why we're not seeing much of a change. I would
Speaker 3: have thought all these other things were happening, Like the
Speaker 3: pace is different, and we're not getting as many shots
Speaker 3: at the rim for the for the most part, for
Speaker 3: the uninitiated, NBA teams get roughly, on average, about eighty
Speaker 3: eight shots per game, and that's been that way for
Speaker 3: the last like fifteen years. Like that's what it is.
Speaker 3: Eighty eight shots is kind of what each team gets
Speaker 3: X amount of possessions. The free throw attempts are fluctuating,
Speaker 3: maybe one or two, you know, based on that as
Speaker 3: well too, because I thought that would have been a
Speaker 3: vast difference too. Oh, shooting more threes, that means you're
Speaker 3: not getting to the line. Same thing, you're not putting
Speaker 3: your nads on people, so you're not getting found. Free
Speaker 3: throw percentage and free throw attempts are are are negligible.
Speaker 3: They negligible amounts. So while we can be cap were corrected,
Speaker 3: I think in some ways, like if you go to
Speaker 3: the eighties where four percent of shots for threes, now
Speaker 3: we're almost at forty percent of shots or threes. But
Speaker 3: at the same time, the percentages are the same, and
Speaker 3: that's why we're seeing the things that we're seeing.
Speaker 1: But can we I want to throw something hus You
Speaker 1: brought up a very interesting point and just hear me out.
Speaker 1: Now you know Cal's spiracies theory here, what if what
Speaker 1: we're saying as well too, that guys who I'm saying
Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to sound extreme
Speaker 1: when I say these guys.
Speaker 2: Don't have any business shooting the three.
Speaker 1: Like I said, if you evolve and you are someone
Speaker 1: who is able to shoot that three ball right, and
Speaker 1: it's incorporated within what is expected of the type of
Speaker 1: offense that the team is executing, it's within the fabric
Speaker 1: and the identity of the team.
Speaker 2: I'm good with that, man.
Speaker 1: I can understand that, hey, you're just struggling, you're just
Speaker 1: not making your shots. But I'm just saying that they're
Speaker 1: clearly guys who you can tell this is not what
Speaker 1: they do, but in this offense, in the way and
Speaker 1: for you to actually have minutes because the ideas you
Speaker 1: gotta stretch the you gotta stretch the floor, you gotta
Speaker 1: expand out four out wide, whatever the case may be,
Speaker 1: you have to do that. Is that really what's gonna
Speaker 1: be successful for some of the teams that we clearly
Speaker 1: are watching out there, who can't make that unless their
Speaker 1: star player is shooting the three. I digress again, another question,
Speaker 1: another conversation for another day on that part.
Speaker 2: But to your point, Seaw.
Speaker 1: What I wanted to add on top of was, what
Speaker 1: if the idea right now is to prevent biggs who
Speaker 1: can't shoot free throws, it's better that they shoot up
Speaker 1: a three, that there is a higher percentage that they'll
Speaker 1: make threes before they actually make free throws. And so
Speaker 1: to bail out teams from this propensity of hack a
Speaker 1: shock or you know, hack your center your opposing team center,
Speaker 1: they'll do is they'll have their centers, their bigs who
Speaker 1: probably shoot thirty forty percent from the free throw line
Speaker 1: out there shooting the three ball just simply because it's
Speaker 1: a better risk in the percentages to take that they
Speaker 1: do that they're worrying about whether or not that if
Speaker 1: they get hacked trying to take up a shot down
Speaker 1: in the blocks, that they have to actually get on
Speaker 1: a free throw line and earn those two free throws.
Speaker 3: Well, remember we did a segment and this is well,
Speaker 3: this is gonna let me let me close your point
Speaker 3: first and then kind of get to the next thing
Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about. But uh, yeah, there's there's
Speaker 3: some there's some possibility in that, right, But I mean
Speaker 3: the aspect of if the big can't shoot free throws,
Speaker 3: you know, what are the chances that they'd be able
Speaker 3: to shoot threes? I think it's I don't know. Like
Speaker 3: I said, shooting is still as a matter of overall touch, right,
Speaker 3: But that's why we say, hey, you start from the corners,
Speaker 3: work your way to the wings where you can get
Speaker 3: to you know, the high sorry to the center part
Speaker 3: or whatever the case of being and doing that. But
Speaker 3: then the concept, however long ago came about of three
Speaker 3: and D guys. So to what you were saying here
Speaker 3: earlier is like, you want to make sure guys will
Speaker 3: play defense, but they were more or less specialist. So
Speaker 3: when we we've evolved from the day of you know,
Speaker 3: I think you know when we talk about some of
Speaker 3: our our legend guys growing up, so Larry wasn't a specialist.
Speaker 3: He was just a freaking Hall of famer, right like
Speaker 3: Larry Bird was a Hall of Famer, but he was
Speaker 3: air quote the premier three point shooter of of the eighties,
Speaker 3: if you will. Then you had like Del Curry, and
Speaker 3: we talked about Dale Ellis and Chuck Person, then Reggie
Speaker 3: Miller honestly got into the fold. Then Redy Allen got
Speaker 3: into the fold. But I wouldn't say that those guys
Speaker 3: were specialists, but they were better at shooting the three
Speaker 3: than anybody else. And we've evolved from that now too,
Speaker 3: where we have elite level guys Lillard, Harden and obviously
Speaker 3: Steph Curry, Klay Thompson. Those guys are great basketball players,
Speaker 3: but they're they're elite. Specialty is the three. They are
Speaker 3: not specialists. And now we are looking for specialist in
Speaker 3: essence that due defense and three point shooting. And I
Speaker 3: think that's where there's been this this emphasis. So again,
Speaker 3: the league can't have it always and then and then
Speaker 3: be mad that that is that way. We've cultivated this
Speaker 3: from from for the last fifteen twenty years.
Speaker 1: Final point to you to what you're saying here, Shaw,
Speaker 1: is this, You're absolutely right the league can't have it
Speaker 1: both ways. But then if the league was smart, they
Speaker 1: would figure out a way to preserve.
Speaker 3: Well, let me correct, because it's not the league. Fans
Speaker 3: are upset.
Speaker 1: Well Listen, We've had this conversation as well too that
Speaker 1: I think the NBA has to do a better job
Speaker 1: of navigating fans to the understanding of where, of why
Speaker 1: and where the game goes. Listen, one thing is definitely
Speaker 1: for certain, right And I don't like the idea of
Speaker 1: only taking pages from what you see from the NFL
Speaker 1: and from Major League Baseball and from hockey and stuff.
Speaker 1: But you can see right now the NBA is borrowing
Speaker 1: from other leagues to figure out ways to help grow,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, the machination that the eye
Speaker 1: candy that they want to see come out of what
Speaker 1: they're getting from their new generation of stars and where
Speaker 1: the NBA wants to be, you know, from a digital
Speaker 1: and also just aesthetically right. But I say this, you
Speaker 1: do this at the risk of if you don't do
Speaker 1: it correctly. The NFL, while people may pick like you know,
Speaker 1: excuse me part of my language, bitch and complain about
Speaker 1: what they like don't like. The NFL is the NFL right,
Speaker 1: You don't have to question it. You know what a
Speaker 1: running back is, you know what a wide receiver is,
Speaker 1: you know what a tight end is. You know what
Speaker 1: all of these guys do and what parts each of
Speaker 1: these guys.
Speaker 2: And even today now in the modern NBA.
Speaker 1: You can see that there is there is more love
Speaker 1: now for guards and d tackles and you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying off guards and you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: like the punters, for Christ's sake, the kickers are getting
Speaker 1: love in this general is this new generation of the
Speaker 1: NFL right. And the NFL has never had to compromise
Speaker 1: saying that we only are you know, we're only advertising
Speaker 1: and only you know, selling to quarterbacks, because you can
Speaker 1: make the argument now that guys like Travis Kels, Jason Kelsey,
Speaker 1: all of them are getting theirs right and they didn't
Speaker 1: have to be marketed solo wise to be the cornerstones.
Speaker 1: They helped become the cornerstones. And still the league, the
Speaker 1: NFL maintains the shield, It still maintains the branding of
Speaker 1: what it is. But one thing is for certain, and
Speaker 1: I'm correlating this now when we talk about with basketball,
Speaker 1: the NBA and the style of basketball and what enamored
Speaker 1: people about how the game is being played and what
Speaker 1: we're watching could very easily be fixed in helping walking
Speaker 1: people through that, showing them what the old was doing,
Speaker 1: how the game was being played, and what the new
Speaker 1: is doing, and if there's a way to get a
Speaker 1: balance and how the teams are operating. Having a team
Speaker 1: that knows how to play in the perimeter more so
Speaker 1: worried about than playing the three, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: So that we can get those type of matchups when
Speaker 1: we get to the NBA Championship.
Speaker 2: And if eventually you have that, well.
Speaker 1: A team like the Golden State Warriors can beat a
Speaker 1: team like you know what I'm saying, the New York Knicks,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, because the style are so
Speaker 1: different in the way that they play. But if everybody's
Speaker 1: going to be the same shaw, then all we're watching
Speaker 1: is we're trying to figure out who's the real and
Speaker 1: everyone else is the fake.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: You're you're looking for as semblance of almost from a
Speaker 3: musical standpoint, like you're looking for somebody to be an original,
Speaker 3: authentic where we know in essence that this is again
Speaker 3: a copycat league. What is everybody else doing? How how
Speaker 3: are the winners winning? All right, well, let's do that.
Speaker 3: How many people go and say, well, let's try to
Speaker 3: do the opposite of that and figure out another way.
Speaker 3: And it takes some really innovative, you know, general managers.
Speaker 3: I would say, for the most part, the Nuggets are
Speaker 3: not a great three point shooting team. They ended up
Speaker 3: with a generational talent in Jokic. While Jamal Murray can
Speaker 3: shoot threes and Porter can shoot threes and sope forth,
Speaker 3: they don't do it at as a team at a
Speaker 3: prolific base, right, And so I think when the Denver won,
Speaker 3: people are like, oh, ish, we need to go get bigs,
Speaker 3: we need to go match up against yoker joker and
Speaker 3: figure out a way to kind of get that done.
Speaker 3: Then they didn't win, and now it's like, okay, well,
Speaker 3: how do we read the Celtics. They're shooting fifty three
Speaker 3: is a game, Let's go and kind of do that.
Speaker 3: Everybody is more or less pseudo reactionary, and that's the
Speaker 3: society and ess since the NBA society and climate that
Speaker 3: we live within. But again, as I continue to you know,
Speaker 3: rely on you know what are what is the hard
Speaker 3: data is really interesting. While some teams are doing it,
Speaker 3: some teams are not. But if you even if you
Speaker 3: take a look at you know, even last the last
Speaker 3: few seasons, the last ten seasons, so from twenty fourteen
Speaker 3: to fifteen to kind of now, a lot of things
Speaker 3: are remarkably very very close you know, to each other
Speaker 3: when it comes to percentages, especially when you talk about
Speaker 3: the overall field goal attempts per games. What that boils
Speaker 3: down to. So it leads back into what you're saying
Speaker 3: in terms of, all, right, well who is taking these shots?
Speaker 3: But the data is going to count for everything. Wellther
Speaker 3: it was contested? Was that you know? Was it contested
Speaker 3: within five feet ten feet wide open? Was it the
Speaker 3: end of the end of a shot clock? Was it
Speaker 3: the end at the end of a quarter? Those are
Speaker 3: threes too, when you heave the ball from you know,
Speaker 3: forty fifty feet away, all those are three point attempts.
Speaker 3: So all that has taken into the data and despite
Speaker 3: it all everything is still within you know, a percentage
Speaker 3: point or two of each other. And that's why I
Speaker 3: just I just don't think it's a three point shooting
Speaker 3: that is the biggest issue for the league in terms
Speaker 3: of its overall consumption. I think it's those other factors
Speaker 3: when it comes to the talent level, the consumer interest,
Speaker 3: what is happening, and kind of another sports as well too.
Speaker 3: And you were saying something earlier, and I don't know
Speaker 3: if this is what you meant, but young young folks
Speaker 3: do not care as much about the history of the
Speaker 3: game and how we got to where we got to,
Speaker 3: who's hot right now, who's doing it at whatever level.
Speaker 3: That's what I want to mimic and emulate for the
Speaker 3: most part. Like and we're talking about the vast majority here.
Speaker 3: We're not talking about you know, the lifers or you know,
Speaker 3: kind of the backpack wrappers if you will, you know
Speaker 3: of the NBA. We're talking about the people that who
Speaker 3: tune in when it's Christmas and when it's playoffs, and
Speaker 3: they are looking at, okay, what gets clicks, And that
Speaker 3: is probably the bigger aspect of the problem here in
Speaker 3: terms of an overall NBA society and consumption.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, man, listen, and I want to make sure you know,
Speaker 1: our listeners understand too. We're not going at each other,
Speaker 1: right like I think we genuinely are having an honest
Speaker 1: conversation where we're trying to approach things from those different sides.
Speaker 1: And you know, listen, we haven't even spoken about this
Speaker 1: from the media perspective, and how much of that is
Speaker 1: having an influence on where on where the struggles are on.
Speaker 1: You know, why people feel the way that they feel
Speaker 1: because there is an influence and how the game is
Speaker 1: being called, how the game is being displayed, the way
Speaker 1: that you know, we criticize and and and we scrutinize,
Speaker 1: you know, the teams and the way that the game
Speaker 1: is being played in some respects. I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: you know, those should not or shouldn't should back off.
Speaker 1: I guess that's what brings about the parody. But to
Speaker 1: your point, a lot of that at the end of
Speaker 1: the day still has to be controlled by the NBA. Right,
Speaker 1: they have to be the narrators, They have to be
Speaker 1: the storytellers on what they want us to see and
Speaker 1: understand and believe. And if they allow it to kind
Speaker 1: of just metastasize what there's where there's where there's no thumb.
Speaker 1: There's no imprint on what they want us to understand
Speaker 1: and see and appreciate within the game. Well, then now
Speaker 1: we're gonna start giving our own interpretation of what this
Speaker 1: may look like and what this may mean and why
Speaker 1: this may not work and things of that nature. And
Speaker 1: it's not to be Demi downer, but there's a realism
Speaker 1: to it because to your point, Shaw, going into a
Speaker 1: big deal like the NBA is going into, you certainly
Speaker 1: don't want the perception out there that it makes this
Speaker 1: much money.
Speaker 2: But it's an unwatchable product, right.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean I love that. I love that
Speaker 3: as a kind of a closing point, you know, And
Speaker 3: obviously we're based on NBA podcast, but you know, this
Speaker 3: is a general basketball conversation that I think is taking place,
Speaker 3: and you know, I'm not close enough to it, but
Speaker 3: I'd love to maybe do some research on what's happening
Speaker 3: in the W and you know, women's basketball even more specifically,
Speaker 3: to kind of see like how things are trending. I
Speaker 3: think we see like the Cata Clarks out there, and
Speaker 3: you know, we know that she's a prolific three point shooter,
Speaker 3: but how does that trend with others who are maybe
Speaker 3: not as initiated with what's going on, you know, in
Speaker 3: the sport of women's basketball as well too. Is this
Speaker 3: a basketball problem? Is it a men's basketball problem. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I have a suspicion, but I think we
Speaker 3: would need to kind of dive into that to kind
Speaker 3: of understand a little bit more too. But a great,
Speaker 3: great conversation here too, and hopefully our fans of listeners
Speaker 3: can kind of let us know what they think about
Speaker 3: this part of it too. Are you just kind of
Speaker 3: those school man, Hey, just two many threes? Need you know,
Speaker 3: get your ass in the paint? You know? I remember
Speaker 3: playing basketball in middle school in high school and the guy,
Speaker 3: this guy literally told me, like, you go from box
Speaker 3: to box. I was the tallest guy in sixth and
Speaker 3: seventh grade. You go from box to box. And I
Speaker 3: wasn't even thinking about trying to do anything other more
Speaker 3: than that too. But I was doing like little hooks,
Speaker 3: little post up moves, not even mid range. And now
Speaker 3: that would be blasphemous to kind of be talking about,
Speaker 3: you know, if you're asking for your four and five
Speaker 3: to really just be stationary kind of in the paint
Speaker 3: at all times. So those done and I think it's
Speaker 3: really interesting to kind of watch the NBA and all
Speaker 3: basketball kind of evolve in the way that it has
Speaker 3: over the last x amount of years.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Man, again, great conversation to be had. We definitely
Speaker 1: want to hear from you. We want to know your thoughts,
Speaker 1: what your settiments regarding you know, the NBA. You know,
Speaker 1: has it taken a turn I want to say for
Speaker 1: the worst, But is it taken a different direction that
Speaker 1: you're just not feeling with the ability of you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying about the weight that the three ball
Speaker 1: is being shot at such a high rate. And again
Speaker 1: you may have alluded to two Shaw, you know, to
Speaker 1: our listeners as well too. The percentage points is not
Speaker 1: that drastic when you really drill down to the numbers. However,
Speaker 1: when you're watching the game and the way that the
Speaker 1: game is being displayed upon you, it's kind of hard pressed.
Speaker 1: You're seeing completely two different things. Where you're just seeing
Speaker 1: it's just the regular for guys to basically shoot threes
Speaker 1: as if it's part of the norm of the execution
Speaker 1: of the offense, as would be anything else that goes
Speaker 1: in there. Is that a trend that you're on board with,
Speaker 1: is that a trendy. You're just like, you know, pump
Speaker 1: the brakes a little bit, man. So it would be
Speaker 1: really interesting to hear what our listeners think, man. And
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to that because again, I know that
Speaker 1: this will not be the only time that we have
Speaker 1: this kind of conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well said, I throw this graphic up one last time.
Speaker 3: Look at this if you're watching it on YouTube, and
Speaker 3: just think about it. From the nineteen nineties, where you
Speaker 3: know three point shooting became a little bit more popular,
Speaker 3: thirty four point seven percent was the league average. The
Speaker 3: league average now there's thirty six point one. So in
Speaker 3: thirty five point six in the two thousand and thirty
Speaker 3: five point six in the twenty tens. It stayed exactly
Speaker 3: the same. So even as we've asked guys and players
Speaker 3: to improve their overall games, like and we know athletes
Speaker 3: are different and their body types are different and everything,
Speaker 3: like they're moving bigger and they're faster and so forth
Speaker 3: and so forth, but that aspect of the game has
Speaker 3: remained almost exactly the same in terms of the percentages
Speaker 3: being done out there. Basically from from the nineties and
Speaker 3: I'll even I'll thirty four percent to thirty five percent
Speaker 3: basically from the two thousands to where we are in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. Remarkable, remarkable stuff. And I pulled this
Speaker 3: at her from NBA stats, from Basketball Reference and Stats
Speaker 3: Music kind of combined all of it, so you know,
Speaker 3: it's chustworthy stuff. I'm not pulling it out of my
Speaker 3: hat or whatever the case. We just trying to make
Speaker 3: a point. This is what the numbers are saying, my guy,
Speaker 3: This is what the numbers is saying.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, you should have You should
Speaker 1: be like one of those those accountants that has the
Speaker 1: big the hat with the little glass eyes. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, A pocket protector. Yeah, man, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Rundom numbers, Buddy, run them numbers once again.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: We like to thank everybody for hopping off board with
Speaker 1: us this week for the baseline.
Speaker 2: Calie Warrenshaw.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you guys, you know we do, and we'll
Speaker 1: catch up with you next time.