Speaker 1: Well, how's that for timing. Look at that.
Speaker 2: We've got Stevenson Sylvester rolling by the show today. Brett
Speaker 2: Sancia Pick six Previews will join us.
Speaker 1: Want to remind you if you miss last segment.
Speaker 2: Nick Romondo joined us, and then Tony joined us and
Speaker 2: Tony's three and a half year old son, Kiri needs
Speaker 2: a bone marrow transplant and we are looking for a match.
Speaker 2: So Nick Rimando has a charity pickleball tournament today and
Speaker 2: I want to let you know. It's at Second Summit
Speaker 2: Hard Cider, which is at forty ten South Main Street
Speaker 2: in Mill Creek, and they've got about one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty kits where you can go get just a quick
Speaker 2: mouth swab. It takes just a couple of minutes. If
Speaker 2: you have some time today, please head down there. We
Speaker 2: do not have a match for Kurrey yet and time
Speaker 2: is running out. If you are planning on heading down there,
Speaker 2: you can text Hope for Kiri to six one four
Speaker 2: seven four and they'll send you kind of the document
Speaker 2: you need to fill out prior to getting screened. If
Speaker 2: you're not available to head down there today. The website
Speaker 2: is Hopefkiri dot org with a link to their GoFundMe
Speaker 2: and link to join the donor registry, and then information
Speaker 2: about new kits when they arrive at other locations. So
Speaker 2: we're gonna push this as hard as we can. Let's
Speaker 2: save this kid's life. He's three and a half years old.
Speaker 2: Cerebral ald It's a devastating and aggressive brain disease. So
Speaker 2: between the ages of eighteen and forty, you're more likely
Speaker 2: to be imagined if you have Italian or Asian heritage
Speaker 2: as a result of the lineage of Carrie's parents. So again,
Speaker 2: Nicky's pick Aball tournament starts in about an hour and
Speaker 2: forty five minutes at Second sum at Heart Cider at
Speaker 2: forty ten South Main Street in Mill Creek, Live in
Speaker 2: studio today our friend Amy Donaldson, which always makes me smile.
Speaker 1: Hello, Amy, how are you hello?
Speaker 3: I actually ooh, gosh, I don't know if that's my hell?
Speaker 3: If I'm coming in.
Speaker 1: High you can control your ears? You sound good to me?
Speaker 4: All right, good, I won't worry about it. Then.
Speaker 3: I actually am was a registered donor, a bone marrow
Speaker 3: donor for many years. Okay, I am unfortunately over forty
Speaker 3: at this point, I am chairly barely right.
Speaker 2: I've been aged out and I have no Italian or
Speaker 2: Asian heritage. I'm like full Scottish, little English and a
Speaker 2: little Scandinavian blood on my mother's side. Nobody gives a
Speaker 2: rip about my you know, twenty three and me, But
Speaker 2: that's that's kind of my ideal.
Speaker 1: How you been, It's good to see it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been good. I have also been sending that
Speaker 3: message out. I hope we find and I hope we
Speaker 3: register a ton of donors. Yeah, for sure, because I
Speaker 3: had got registered because my best friend from high school's
Speaker 3: son got leukemia and needed a bone marrow transplant, and
Speaker 3: so he just asked everybody to get registered and I
Speaker 3: was hoping I would just was a match for him.
Speaker 4: I was not. He found a donor.
Speaker 3: Through this registry, okay, and it saves lives, and it's
Speaker 3: really I had never was lucky enough to be able
Speaker 3: to donate, but I have no people who have and
Speaker 3: friends who have, and it's for a healthy person. It
Speaker 3: is no problem, and yeah, it's an amazing thing to
Speaker 3: be able to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, three and a half years old. I'll just keep
Speaker 1: pushing the website.
Speaker 2: I hope for Carrie dot Org, he's got two siblings
Speaker 2: neither were a match unfortunately, and times running out. We
Speaker 2: had his dad on last segment and you could just
Speaker 2: hear like the emotion in his voice. You and I
Speaker 2: both parents. This is this is something no parents should
Speaker 2: ever go through.
Speaker 3: No. And if you've had I know you yourself have had,
Speaker 3: you know face that.
Speaker 4: It could be deadly situation.
Speaker 3: I had a kid who had opened our surgery twice,
Speaker 3: once at eleven months and once at fifteen years old,
Speaker 3: and probably will have to have it again.
Speaker 4: And it is, I think the worst thing.
Speaker 3: Because you like to think you could handle anything, you
Speaker 3: can do anything, you'll do anything, but there's it just
Speaker 3: reduces you to like, oh you you really have no
Speaker 3: power here, you have nothing. You can just love and so,
Speaker 3: like I said, hopefully his efforts will help a lot
Speaker 3: of kids, but also his And yeah, please go get
Speaker 3: registered at the time.
Speaker 4: It's it's not hard for sure, and you can play pickleball,
Speaker 4: my guy, there you go.
Speaker 3: I was really I was like, I'm going to play
Speaker 3: in that pickleball tournament because I love pickleball so much,
Speaker 3: but I.
Speaker 4: Have to work.
Speaker 3: Well, we'll get you out of here. And I just
Speaker 3: came out of my basement to talk to you though,
Speaker 3: Oh did you really well?
Speaker 4: I've been writing all day.
Speaker 1: So Hope for Kirie dot orgon again.
Speaker 2: If you can head to Nikki's Pickaball tournament, text Hope
Speaker 2: for Kirie right now to six one four seven four,
Speaker 2: and they're going to send you the documentation you need
Speaker 2: to fill out.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: To just get swapped takes a couple of minutes forty
Speaker 2: ten South Main Street and Mill Creek starts at about
Speaker 2: four forty five.
Speaker 1: What are you working on? What's the latest with you?
Speaker 4: Working on?
Speaker 3: So many? I have so many little you know, plate
Speaker 3: spinning and know how that is, you know me never
Speaker 3: just one thing. But right now I am working on
Speaker 3: a podcast that will be launching probably February to April
Speaker 3: of next year. Okay, I can't talk about it yet,
Speaker 3: but probably close the next couple of months. But it's
Speaker 3: a sports related but yeah, it's a sports related podcast,
Speaker 3: which I didn't plan on doing. I actually had a
Speaker 3: different podcast that I had been working on, and this
Speaker 3: one had kind of been on the back burner, you
Speaker 3: know how that has just always having this idea and
Speaker 3: it's sort of bubbled up to the top. So that's
Speaker 3: what I've been working on. And it's consuming a lot
Speaker 3: of time. I'm also I've been working on a book.
Speaker 3: So I went to a writer's conference a few weeks ago,
Speaker 3: and I have a writing coach who's checking in with.
Speaker 4: Me now and there.
Speaker 1: Do you have a writing coach?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: I have.
Speaker 3: My husband jokes about this. I go to more writing
Speaker 3: classes and conferences. He's like, you'd think you don't know
Speaker 3: how to write, but no, it's it does help.
Speaker 1: Does it really like you don't?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they know things or they've come at it
Speaker 3: from a different perspective. I mean the people think that
Speaker 3: because you write for newspaper, you know how to write
Speaker 3: writing for newspaper and then switching to podcast, completely different game.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I questioned my decision every day for two years. Why
Speaker 3: did you give up something you were good at for
Speaker 3: something that you suck at? Now I finally feel like
Speaker 3: I'm like in first grade of podcast writing.
Speaker 1: Don't suck at it. Let's be clear.
Speaker 3: I don't think you didn't read those first drafts. I
Speaker 3: should send you. I should send you a Blooper rail.
Speaker 3: You would enjoy it, Actually, porter would enjoy it. But yeah,
Speaker 3: it's tough. I mean, it's a different kind of writing,
Speaker 3: completely and so just for fun, I took a screenwriting
Speaker 3: class in the spring and it really like just made
Speaker 3: me kind of reinvigorate it with fun.
Speaker 4: I mean, this is the thing.
Speaker 3: When you write every day in one form or another,
Speaker 3: it's hard to like then say I'm gonna go have
Speaker 3: some fun and write some more because you're tired. It's
Speaker 3: writing is like it's a little piece of your soul
Speaker 3: goes out into the thing.
Speaker 4: And yeah, so I love it.
Speaker 3: I'm doing my column again for a Kastel Sports, so
Speaker 3: they came my first column last week. It's going to
Speaker 3: be run on Wednesdays. So I'm happy to be doing
Speaker 3: that again because I love I have missed covering daily sports.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to be doing daily sports, but I'm
Speaker 3: going to be writing about some of the issues and
Speaker 3: players and I have I asked for ideas and I
Speaker 3: have been I think I have one hundred ideas. I
Speaker 3: still ask for them because I mean, I think if
Speaker 3: we find a donor through this, I would love to
Speaker 3: talk to whoever ends up being a match, or if
Speaker 3: somebody else finds a match because they shared their story.
Speaker 3: I just remember, this is why we share stories, right,
Speaker 3: this is why we do it.
Speaker 4: To connect.
Speaker 3: We do it to help each other and remind us
Speaker 3: that none of us are in this game alone.
Speaker 2: What is your well said? What's your first cassel column?
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 4: It was on?
Speaker 3: It was on the Former Brothers new gym, oh Nice
Speaker 3: and I actually submitted it a couple of months ago,
Speaker 3: but there was some maturn to leave for someone else
Speaker 3: involved in and so I was working on something else.
Speaker 3: So we finally got it done. But there's still time
Speaker 3: to donate to the gym. And for sure, it's always
Speaker 3: timeless what the former family has done for this state,
Speaker 3: and not just in boxing, giving kids a sense of community,
Speaker 3: giving them a place to go. The young men that
Speaker 3: I found. His mom is a recovering addict. She'd been
Speaker 3: cleaned for a year when I met them. Saved their lives.
Speaker 3: They don't have a dad in their lives. They have
Speaker 3: all these amazing male role models and they get to
Speaker 3: He gets to go every day for free. Kids go
Speaker 3: and they can box for free. They learn discipline, how
Speaker 3: to take care of one another, the value of competition
Speaker 3: and good sportsmanship. Right, there's so many things and now,
Speaker 3: and they have a study facility there.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you've been out there yet Yeah,
Speaker 4: I was there for the opener.
Speaker 1: We did my show out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I think I was out in the morning
Speaker 3: when they did the River. So yeah, it's deluxe. I mean,
Speaker 3: I I was so happy because I love the.
Speaker 4: The fact that there's a support. Like I've combat sports have.
Speaker 3: Always been a safety net for a lot of people
Speaker 3: living on the margins of society. But now there's a
Speaker 3: safety net there that's going to give them more options
Speaker 3: even if they don't make it in boxing. They have community,
Speaker 3: they have study skills, they have help with their homework,
Speaker 3: they have food to eat, there are a lot they
Speaker 3: have access to athletic trainers. There's just so much support there.
Speaker 3: And it's a beautiful building to boot But yeah, I
Speaker 3: love it. And if you don't know anything about the
Speaker 3: history of boxing in Utah, all that stuff you used
Speaker 3: to be in Don and Jane Fulmer's basements and probably
Speaker 3: Jay's garage and now it's like this amazing museum and yeah,
Speaker 3: it just makes you like, oh, there's a lot here
Speaker 3: in the state that I don't know anything about, and
Speaker 3: it makes.
Speaker 4: You super proud.
Speaker 1: Well, and you're not going to meet a sweeter guy
Speaker 1: than Larry Fomer.
Speaker 4: No, I mean, just like maybe one of his brothers.
Speaker 2: Well okay, fair enough, but he's one of those guys
Speaker 2: where every time, whether he's in studio or I've been
Speaker 2: out on remote, he just puts you in a good
Speaker 2: Nottain you just feel happy around Larry.
Speaker 3: And I should say in a couple of weeks they
Speaker 3: have an outdoor boxing match coming up. So they poured
Speaker 3: this cement slab on the property that I believe they
Speaker 3: they I don't they rent or release, but for like
Speaker 3: a ten bucks or a bucket year or something from
Speaker 3: the county and it they're gonna have outdoor boxing.
Speaker 4: Matches but they used to back in the day.
Speaker 1: That's awesome.
Speaker 3: But instead of a chicken coop, they're going to be
Speaker 3: in this amazing venue and there will be real restrooms
Speaker 3: in case you're on the fence. That's always my requirement. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it is there a place to go to the bathroom?
Speaker 4: I'm down?
Speaker 1: And is there food?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 4: You know me, food is maybe more important than the restroom.
Speaker 1: And porter how long?
Speaker 2: So Deontay Wilder was there, Yeah, and he sat down
Speaker 2: and I didn't know what to expect. We probably did
Speaker 2: a forty five minute segment with him, didn't we I mean,
Speaker 2: he just yacks poetic forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was a good long it was.
Speaker 4: It was most of our radio hour, which yeah, about
Speaker 4: forty forty.
Speaker 3: I miss I'm gonna have to go back and with
Speaker 3: him because he was wonderful with those kids.
Speaker 2: People need to know Porter's magic with the clock based
Speaker 2: off of my lack of clock integrity?
Speaker 4: Did we call it time? Blame this with ADHD.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's that's really what it is like.
Speaker 2: So I've always In fact, it's interesting because you brought
Speaker 2: up the podcasting dynamic. You know, for two years, I
Speaker 2: was not doing this job. I just did podcasts only
Speaker 2: for two years. And when you have that experience, I
Speaker 2: was about, oh, we're turning six this week. This show
Speaker 2: is six years old this week, which is pretty pretty interesting.
Speaker 2: It both seems like it was yesterday and forever ago.
Speaker 2: I don't really know how to you know, time is
Speaker 2: such a mental construct. But during my two years of
Speaker 2: podcasts only, you just see the movement of this attention
Speaker 2: economy moving digitally and online.
Speaker 1: So when I first took this.
Speaker 2: Job, I told Cavon, I said, I want to try
Speaker 2: to make live radio sound podcasting. I said, what that
Speaker 2: means is I'm blowing through my clock all the time.
Speaker 2: Like if I have a conversation that's going well, I
Speaker 2: want And one of my favorite pieces of feedback I
Speaker 2: get is if somebody sends me a message of like,
Speaker 2: hey is running errands and you had Deontay Wilder on
Speaker 2: and I sat in the Harmon's parking lot and I
Speaker 2: listened to you for forty five min done it.
Speaker 1: That's the coolest thing, you know?
Speaker 4: Or I've been coming home or and I've been I
Speaker 4: have to hear the end of this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's not like you can't go you can't
Speaker 3: listen to it on podcasts later, sure, but you're in
Speaker 3: the moment and there's an energy and an emotion to
Speaker 3: it right one hundred percent. But I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 3: have to look that one up because I member, I
Speaker 3: don't remember why. I think.
Speaker 4: I think Larry told me you were there, but I
Speaker 4: had that was crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was great, but but it it And yes,
Speaker 2: like part of my approach is thinking about the person
Speaker 2: who couldn't hear the interview live, who gets home from
Speaker 2: work and pulls up the podcast page and says, wait
Speaker 2: forty five minutes with a World Championship boxer. I'm going
Speaker 2: to listen to that, but in real time, it just
Speaker 2: it makes my man in there spend different plates on
Speaker 2: his head when he's got to deal with my you know, wait,
Speaker 2: you're supposed to go to break here, but I just
Speaker 2: approach it differently, and you see how people pay the bills.
Speaker 3: But that's I actually would love to see us figure
Speaker 3: this out. Actually talk to one of your sales managers
Speaker 3: about this. How do you make this less transactional? Like
Speaker 3: I you give advertisers, give us, give you money, and
Speaker 3: then you give a product. Right, and the listeners are
Speaker 3: the the people you're trying to sell stuff to. Right,
Speaker 3: what if it was all we are all trying to
Speaker 3: do the same thing. We're trying to create this community
Speaker 3: and we all benefit from it. So the advertisers that
Speaker 3: support your show that listeners support them because they're not
Speaker 3: going to have as many ads, they're not going to
Speaker 3: have as many bricks, but they but they support those
Speaker 3: advertisers because they're supporting this unusual you know format.
Speaker 4: That to me is like, oh, let's figure let's try that.
Speaker 3: That would be super fun to try, but it's hard
Speaker 3: to get sales to go along. With it because they're like,
Speaker 3: but we've got this many ads and d da da da,
Speaker 3: because that's what advertisers are sure will work. And I
Speaker 3: just say, like, let's just try it a little bit.
Speaker 3: And podcasting is a great place to try it, yeah,
Speaker 3: because there's you know, it's such a I feel like
Speaker 3: it's a creative you could say chaotic universe, or you
Speaker 3: could say a crap show whatever, but it's a place
Speaker 3: you can try stuff. And so we're with radio. As
Speaker 3: you know, there is a way of doing it. We've
Speaker 3: always done it this way. We're not going to change
Speaker 3: our minds aiming, So don't come in here with your
Speaker 3: new fingled idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's and you know, for years and years
Speaker 2: and years, I would hear this thing from sales staff
Speaker 2: or you know, front office folk up in you know,
Speaker 2: the upper tier offices, like we need more time spend
Speaker 2: listening TSL. They always say that, so we need to
Speaker 2: turn If somebody's listening to your show for seven minutes
Speaker 2: of time, how do we turn that into twenty? And
Speaker 2: like my whole thing is like, okay, well we don't
Speaker 2: go to break if something is compelling, that's how we
Speaker 2: do it. And then we try to convince them to
Speaker 2: sit in their car and listen to a good conversation.
Speaker 3: The easiest way and this is what I I because
Speaker 3: I do narrative podcasting, so I tell a story over episodes.
Speaker 3: And the easiest way to lose people I listen to
Speaker 3: narrative podcasts I make them is to interrupt and try
Speaker 3: to sell me something because it reminds me that I'm
Speaker 3: not part of the story, right, all the work.
Speaker 1: That it's a dropped in random this.
Speaker 3: Universe, and all of a sudden, now you want to
Speaker 3: talk about tires. No, no, right, well let's go back
Speaker 3: to talking about well, how did you find belief in
Speaker 3: yourself to become a world champion? How did you envision
Speaker 3: that when nobody around you had that kind of success
Speaker 3: from them? Right? Like, that's the thing, that's the conversation
Speaker 3: you want to be involved in. And if you tell
Speaker 3: me at the very beginning, hey, this company makes this possible.
Speaker 3: As you and I see this a lot in outdoor community,
Speaker 3: we will support a company that doesn't do ads on
Speaker 3: our shirt because we want a shirt that we can
Speaker 3: wear wherever we want.
Speaker 4: We won't work like a billboard, right right, But it
Speaker 4: takes some level of trust.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so of all of because we had Mad
Speaker 2: Dog on Chris Russo, who was kind of the first.
Speaker 2: He and Mike Frances did Mike and the Mad Dog
Speaker 2: when I was a teenager in the Northeast and it
Speaker 2: was the first like sports talk radio show and it was,
Speaker 2: you know, those two going back and forth, and in
Speaker 2: a way, they are real pioneers like you hear a
Speaker 2: lot of like the steven A. Smiths get Bayless getting
Speaker 2: the credit for this embraced debate. It was Mike and
Speaker 2: the Mad Dog before anybody else. And we had Dog
Speaker 2: on the show like a month ago, and he said,
Speaker 2: every live radio host can be a podcaster.
Speaker 1: Ten percent of podcasters can do live radio.
Speaker 4: That's what I believe that.
Speaker 2: But what's your experience been, because I wanted to ask you, like,
Speaker 2: you've done live radio, you've done podcasting, and you write
Speaker 2: a lot. What's what's the biggest energetic ask of the
Speaker 2: things that you've done.
Speaker 4: What do you mean energetic ask?
Speaker 2: Like you referenced earlier, when I write something leaves my
Speaker 2: body and when I'm done with the show, every day
Speaker 2: I go home and I sit in my backyard for
Speaker 2: like thirty minutes and I want to talk to anybody.
Speaker 2: I'm just sitting there, like you know, like the energetic
Speaker 2: ask of doing this for four hours every day is
Speaker 2: a different ass than it is for podcasting because we
Speaker 2: have a clock.
Speaker 1: As I reference, I blow through it.
Speaker 2: But there's no like hey, pause take two, like we
Speaker 2: are live right now, this is a live mic, I think,
Speaker 2: so they're different.
Speaker 3: So live radio to me, and I did twelve years
Speaker 3: of sports talk radio and I'm mostly good high school stuff.
Speaker 4: Then filling in.
Speaker 3: Every time I did a four hour show versus my
Speaker 3: two hour show, I was reminded a how much more
Speaker 3: you know, preparation goes into it than you hear in
Speaker 3: a two hour or a four hour show, right, you
Speaker 3: double or triple it, right, Like It's it's crazy how
Speaker 3: much more you have to prepare to do a couple
Speaker 3: of hours of live radio. The other thing is you
Speaker 3: can't be I'm me, like, I don't have an alter ego.
Speaker 3: And when you do live radio, no one wants sad you,
Speaker 3: nobody wants anger you.
Speaker 4: They want they want this happy.
Speaker 3: Give me information, make me feel better about life, tell
Speaker 3: me some stuff about the world, right and and you
Speaker 3: like and I see that I actually it's One of
Speaker 3: the things I love about your show is and and
Speaker 3: is that there is a dynamic of where like, okay,
Speaker 3: that we're not going to be just happy. Sports is fun, right,
Speaker 3: Like we're gonna we're gonna be real at times. But
Speaker 3: I think for the most part, radio radio, live radio
Speaker 3: is a persona that for me, I find incredibly difficult
Speaker 3: to maintain. I can't be this thing you need all
Speaker 3: the time. It's like it's like putting on a good
Speaker 3: face for your kids or something when you're pe oed.
Speaker 3: You know, we've all been like in a fight with
Speaker 3: our spouse and we have to go to a party
Speaker 3: and pretend we'd like each other.
Speaker 4: Like that's what I feel like. Live radio is like
Speaker 4: whatever you're feeling, you know.
Speaker 3: Taylor Swipt has a song you can do It with
Speaker 3: a broken Heart, and Jason Kelsey talked about that, like
Speaker 3: so many times you have to sit down in front
Speaker 3: of a microphone after you lose a game and you
Speaker 3: want to punch everybody in the face, and you have
Speaker 3: to sit there and try to be a good sport
Speaker 3: and talk nice and be happy and not say what
Speaker 3: kind of freaking dumb question is that? Because there's a
Speaker 3: lot of dumb questions in those problems. Yes, meeting right,
Speaker 3: So to me, live radio is exhausting because of the
Speaker 3: masking aspect, and so that's I'll put that aside. End
Speaker 3: the amount of preparation that nobody, everybody think should just
Speaker 3: go on and just shoot the crap, right, So there's
Speaker 3: no respect for the amount of work it takes. And
Speaker 3: a lot of people who don't work can make it
Speaker 3: in this business and we're all in the same boat.
Speaker 3: That is very problematic for me, and I don't like
Speaker 3: that because I'm a fair Everything has to be fair.
Speaker 3: So then podcasts for me is different because I do
Speaker 3: narrative podcasting and it's years of thinking and researching and
Speaker 3: doing all kinds of interviews and reading all kinds of books.
Speaker 4: The one I'm.
Speaker 3: Writing for next year is I've read at least six
Speaker 3: books on this subject. And you have to immerse yourself
Speaker 3: in a story in a way that is uh, it
Speaker 3: can be traumatic. I mean I feel like sometimes you can,
Speaker 3: especially with a true crime podcast, you can engage, you
Speaker 3: can feel some secondary trauma or it triggers your own
Speaker 3: trauma your own life, right, And so there's that aspect
Speaker 3: of it. And writing for me is an absolutely participatory sport.
Speaker 3: It is not I know people who just I remember
Speaker 3: talking to another journalist about this way will not name
Speaker 3: who said, Stott, you just need to put a put
Speaker 3: a wall up between your emotions and the thing you're covering.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 1: Right, right, that's the thing about you, though I'm glad.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think it, but it makes it
Speaker 3: harder to do as what they call it a quick
Speaker 3: and dirty sure, right, So that's why I didn't like
Speaker 3: quick and dirty. I was like, I'll do the cancer
Speaker 3: story because I can get into that, I can feel that,
Speaker 3: and I will be tired and sad and like you say,
Speaker 3: you don't want to talk to anybody after, but I'll
Speaker 3: feel like I did something of value. And for me,
Speaker 3: the reason to write anything or do any of this
Speaker 3: is that you do something to educate people, to inspire people,
Speaker 3: or help them figure out a problem. We can talk
Speaker 3: through a problem or an issue that's that we face
Speaker 3: as a group. So and then as far as newspaper
Speaker 3: writing or you know, my writing, I do on my own.
Speaker 3: The book that I'm writing, it is the single most
Speaker 3: difficult thing I've ever done, and part of that is
Speaker 3: you're as a journalist and a person who's d you've
Speaker 3: kind of lived half in the public eye and half
Speaker 3: out right, you have to kind of two lives. I've
Speaker 3: kind of not done that. I've kind of just let
Speaker 3: my life be my life. But in going through the
Speaker 3: book that I'm writing, it's a lot of parts that
Speaker 3: I haven't even shared with my closest friends. Right, So
Speaker 3: some people know about it, some people don't. But it's
Speaker 3: a book about grief and about losing my stepdaughter and
Speaker 3: taking care of my grandmother until she passed away.
Speaker 4: And so I.
Speaker 3: Once wrote about being a victim of domestic violence and
Speaker 3: a column And if you haven't had that experience, you're
Speaker 3: not gonna understand what I'm going to say. But it
Speaker 3: was the most humiliating thing that I ever experienced as
Speaker 3: a professional journalist to have my boss call me and
Speaker 3: say two things, that's the best thing we've ever run
Speaker 3: in the paper, which is supposed to be a compliment, right,
Speaker 3: And the second one was, I can't believe that you
Speaker 3: were a victim of I can't believe our amy was
Speaker 3: a victim of set. I can't believe that, which is
Speaker 3: like completely reinforcing all the shame stigma, right, So I
Speaker 3: know sharing stuff like that it's good and we should
Speaker 3: do it. And I know the cost now because I've
Speaker 3: done it and I've asked other people to do it,
Speaker 3: and so that part of it, like writing, that is
Speaker 3: very difficult. But it's also I always say, the work
Speaker 3: is the medicine, and sometimes medicine sucks, baby, yeah, but
Speaker 3: I'm willing to do it because it's the only way
Speaker 3: I know how to live.
Speaker 4: So that's the.
Speaker 3: Which one's more emotionally exhausting in the short term. This
Speaker 3: live radio people and everybody is a critic, I mean,
Speaker 3: and in live radio, you get it right. I mean
Speaker 3: I was a sub and at X ninety six one
Speaker 3: morning and I'm watching the text line and they told me,
Speaker 3: don't watch it.
Speaker 4: I can't help it.
Speaker 3: I do it at KSL two and I was like
Speaker 3: responding to people who are criticizing me or saying why
Speaker 3: am I wearing what I have on? And they're like, stop,
Speaker 3: stop doing that. But for me, that's my old newspaper thing.
Speaker 3: Like I remember when I wrote a column about Max
Speaker 3: Hall when he had said the crappy stuff about YouTube,
Speaker 3: and I got five hundred emails within twenty four hours.
Speaker 3: And there's no way I'm responding to five hundred emails.
Speaker 3: I read most of them. My colleague is pretty much
Speaker 3: at all. I just let them have my email because
Speaker 3: they were stunned at what people would say to a
Speaker 3: woman journalist.
Speaker 4: Right, it was an education for all of us.
Speaker 3: But I remember responding to a lot of those that
Speaker 3: people were like, why are you responding to that? Because
Speaker 3: here's the thing. The minute you respond to people, they
Speaker 3: become themselves again. They come back into their body whatever,
Speaker 3: whatever tick them off, whatever sent them out where they
Speaker 3: could say something nasty to you. Then they come back
Speaker 3: and they go, oh wait, that went to a real person,
Speaker 3: and that real person has thoughts, and now I have
Speaker 3: to defend this really creepy thing that I said.
Speaker 4: I don't do that.
Speaker 3: When people threaten violence, I just those people just get blocked.
Speaker 3: But the people who I think, this guy's not a
Speaker 3: bad person. He has a wife and children. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: do his kids a favor and I'm going to give
Speaker 3: them a little bit of insight into what he said
Speaker 3: and why that's a problem.
Speaker 1: And it does disarm people.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't look, I'd never have the text
Speaker 2: sign pulled up. We don't take phone calls. I am
Speaker 2: really never on social media. My approach to the whole
Speaker 2: thing has changed a lot over the path, like I would.
Speaker 1: Say doing this show.
Speaker 2: And also I need to give Gordon Monson some credit
Speaker 2: for kind of changing my approach during the final few
Speaker 2: years of our show together, because I'll occasionally stumble upon
Speaker 2: a show I did a number of years ago if
Speaker 2: I have it, I have a few interviews that I liked,
Speaker 2: saved or whatever, and I'm like, you took yourself so seriously,
Speaker 2: Like when I was young in this business, I'm like
Speaker 2: chip on my shoulder.
Speaker 1: I'm going to prove to everybody I belong.
Speaker 2: I know what the narrative is around who my father
Speaker 2: is and why I'm where I'm at. So I'm going
Speaker 2: to be better than everybody else, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: be a lot better than everybody else. So you know
Speaker 2: that I deserve to be here, and I just let
Speaker 2: all that go. And I don't take myself nearer seriously.
Speaker 2: And I want to use this platform to help people
Speaker 2: and you know, have fun, and it should be fun.
Speaker 2: This is the toy Isleld life. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: it's such a great conduit to make a difference if
Speaker 2: you just don't take yourself in the craft as seriously
Speaker 2: as I think most people do.
Speaker 3: What you felt about your parent, who your dad is,
Speaker 3: I felt that about being a woman. Sure, I'm like,
Speaker 3: I'm going to be better, gonna work harder, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: do everything you ask of me.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do eighteen times more than you asked me,
Speaker 3: because then you're gonna love me. Then I'm gonna be
Speaker 3: in the fraternity. And guess what you're not. You're never
Speaker 3: it's not there's always gonna be somebody saying you're only
Speaker 3: here because you're a woman, or you don't know what
Speaker 3: you're talking about because you're a woman, Like, that's always
Speaker 3: gonna happen, same as it's always going to happen. I
Speaker 3: had somebody say to me when I had your dad
Speaker 3: on my podcast and we did a bonus episode with
Speaker 3: your dad, which was amazing, and I had a business
Speaker 3: person say to me, that was amazing, that was like
Speaker 3: how to be successful in business? That one and the
Speaker 3: one with Jason christ Like love the bonus episode, right,
Speaker 3: they were bonus episodes. And then literally the same day
Speaker 3: I got an email from somebody who said, so, did
Speaker 3: Spence get that interview for you? Or did Dave reach
Speaker 3: out to you? Never did it occur to them that
Speaker 3: I bugged you and your dad? And let me just
Speaker 3: say that your dad was so nice that I bugged
Speaker 3: him two or three times and he's back east doing
Speaker 3: his thing. One of the calls was like clearly, like
Speaker 3: right around midnight, like I just had to do what
Speaker 3: I to do, and he was like, whatever you need
Speaker 3: because he believed in what I was doing and it
Speaker 3: wasn't about he.
Speaker 4: Didn't know me.
Speaker 3: He was like, I try, I believe, I want to
Speaker 3: share this, and I believe this is a great project
Speaker 3: and I'm going to do it. It had nothing to
Speaker 3: do with any of the things that everybody thought it did.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, Dave wouldn't know where to get my
Speaker 3: phone number. I'm pretty sure, But like, I don't even
Speaker 3: know if he knew you and I knew each other
Speaker 3: until I interviewed him and said, oh, I've been on
Speaker 3: Spencer's show a lot.
Speaker 4: I was like, you don't know if you put your
Speaker 4: mom did?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they were great. Have you and we actually
Speaker 2: do need to catch a break? Yeah, Ben we'll do
Speaker 2: some more coming up next with Amy.
Speaker 1: But have you changed the way you kind of approached
Speaker 1: the whole thing?
Speaker 2: And you reference authenticity, I think the other thing that
Speaker 2: I just realized that I needed to do because it's
Speaker 2: really hard to do this for four hours and then
Speaker 2: change back in who you are in real life.
Speaker 1: And I noticed there was kind of.
Speaker 2: A dynamic that was occurring where I was carrying over,
Speaker 2: like my on air persona into my real life and like,
Speaker 2: you know, i'd have friends and you know, people that
Speaker 2: I spend time with. Dude, I don't really want to
Speaker 2: debate you right now, like you're not on air, you know,
Speaker 2: And so I try to be just more authentic to
Speaker 2: who I am with this. And I do think there's
Speaker 2: an intimacy to live radio that's a little bit different.
Speaker 2: It's a very intimate platform. It's one of the reasons
Speaker 2: I like it. Like I'll go do a TV hit
Speaker 2: with Dave on KUTV. It's seven minutes, you know, And
Speaker 2: this is different because you're on air for hours at
Speaker 2: a time, and I think people honestly feel like they
Speaker 2: get to know you in a way. And so where
Speaker 2: I give Gordon a lot of credit is him encouraging
Speaker 2: me to. As Robin Roberts said when she got her
Speaker 2: Lifetime Achievement Award, this line is always stuck to me.
Speaker 1: Make your mess, your message right.
Speaker 2: And so whether it was stuff I was going through
Speaker 2: personally or you reference you know, my health issues when
Speaker 2: I was young, a brain tumor nearly killed me.
Speaker 1: Gordon's like, go on air with that. I've never done
Speaker 1: that before.
Speaker 2: I don't want to do He's like, no, you will
Speaker 2: be stunned at the reaction of our listeners.
Speaker 3: Gordon's actually given me some career changing advice. Gordon and
Speaker 3: Brad Rock two best pieces of advice I got.
Speaker 1: So have you changed the approach over the years.
Speaker 3: Do you feel like I would say now people who
Speaker 3: know me, No, I just I could never do what
Speaker 3: you guys do because I can't be like I'm just
Speaker 3: me sure and nobody wants to put that on air
Speaker 3: for four hours.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's true, but.
Speaker 3: I and I don't blame them, but I you know,
Speaker 3: in one hour, I guess you can handle it one
Speaker 3: hour a week for sure. But I think that Gordon
Speaker 3: told me you're great at this. You have a really
Speaker 3: good sense of humor. You know what you're talking about
Speaker 3: but you won't let people in on the radio. And
Speaker 3: if you people can get their sports information anywhere. If
Speaker 3: they don't care about you, if they can't connect to you,
Speaker 3: they're not going to listen to you. And that changed
Speaker 3: the amount I was willing to let people in because
Speaker 3: as a print journalist, the lines are really clear. Sure
Speaker 3: when you do when you grow up in newspaper news
Speaker 3: in a newsroom, there it is no pun intended black
Speaker 3: and white, there's no gray area. You go to a
Speaker 3: banquet to cover an awards banquet, you do not eat,
Speaker 3: you do not participate, You are not part of the story.
Speaker 3: That changed when I went to sports and I was
Speaker 3: completely out of my element, and Gordon gave me that
Speaker 3: advice on because I was doing sports talk radio. And
Speaker 3: you can hear the difference when you have print reporters
Speaker 3: on versus broadcast report or columnists. Print reporters are always
Speaker 3: pre editing what they want to say, because that's how
Speaker 3: we write, right. We think and write it and then
Speaker 3: we edit it and change it and go over and
Speaker 3: over til it sounds the way we want it to sound.
Speaker 3: That's not a luxury you have in broadcasts. You just
Speaker 3: have to own what you think what you feel and
Speaker 3: how much you're willing to share. And that was a
Speaker 3: shift for me. So the change came then. And then
Speaker 3: I would say, Brad Rock the other significant change. I
Speaker 3: was really struggling in sports, probably looking to get back
Speaker 3: into news and leave sports, and he saw me at
Speaker 3: a ski event. I was covering a pre Olympics event,
Speaker 3: and he said, and I was expressing to him my
Speaker 3: frustration and why I wanted to go back to news,
Speaker 3: and he said, you're trying to be us. He said,
Speaker 3: the thing that makes you valuable is you're not us.
Speaker 3: So what if you don't know the latest scores and stats,
Speaker 3: or you don't know who the I score was. You
Speaker 3: can look that up, he said, what you when I
Speaker 3: come and talk to you, you know whose grandmother has cancer.
Speaker 3: You know where their fiance is sitting in the stands.
Speaker 3: He's like, you're the only person I know who went
Speaker 3: over and sat with Larry Miller at a WNBA game
Speaker 3: and never came back to press row because Larry invited
Speaker 3: you to stay, and you stayed, and you have three
Speaker 3: or four stories now from that and a column. He's like,
Speaker 3: that's what you do well, and you need to value
Speaker 3: that because that's what we value and I realize, like
Speaker 3: when you try to when oftentimes the thing you hate
Speaker 3: the most.
Speaker 4: About yourself is your superpower.
Speaker 3: The fact that I cannot put up walls around my
Speaker 3: heart and around how I feel and what I think.
Speaker 3: That's how actually the reason I can connect people who've
Speaker 3: had experiences I will never have, whose children have been
Speaker 3: murdered and they found their kid in their own house, right, Like,
Speaker 3: I have to sit with them, and I have to
Speaker 3: write something about that. I have to put you in
Speaker 3: somebody's shoes who's forgiven the killer of their son's murderer, right,
Speaker 3: And that's a thing that you can't do if you
Speaker 3: have any anything between you and them. You really have
Speaker 3: to just surrender yourself to the story. I always say,
Speaker 3: Everyone's like, well, how do you decide this?
Speaker 4: Or that?
Speaker 3: It's the story for me, and it sounds hokey, But
Speaker 3: the story is what I serve, and I serve it
Speaker 3: completely and it takes a toll. But I'm also like,
Speaker 3: I feel super lucky that I get to see and
Speaker 3: be inspired by the people I have come in contact
Speaker 3: with over the years. But for me, that's that moment.
Speaker 3: Gordon's in the broadcast side and Brad Rock on the
Speaker 3: print side. What those were the two people who said, like,
Speaker 3: stop trying to be something you're not. And Gordon's was
Speaker 3: just like, if you don't let us in, we're not
Speaker 3: going to listen.
Speaker 4: No, but you know you can. There's so many places
Speaker 4: to get information. Why would I come to you?
Speaker 2: And he and he was right, you know when you
Speaker 2: say the work is the medicine, you know if I'm
Speaker 2: because it's and we do have to catch break and
Speaker 2: we will. But it's funny all these thoughts, this is
Speaker 2: why I like having you in. That'd come to my
Speaker 2: mind about like stretches of doing the show when nobody
Speaker 2: knows that off air of my life was like crumbling, right,
Speaker 2: And so my dad would always say, it's this Vince
Speaker 2: Lombardi line. A pro is at his best regardless, right,
Speaker 2: So that light goes on at two o'clock. It doesn't
Speaker 2: matter what's going on out there, you can't bring it
Speaker 2: in here, right, And there is a therapeutic nature the
Speaker 2: show or writing a column.
Speaker 3: Right. I covered a hockey game Utah Grizzleyes soccer game,
Speaker 3: hockey game while my kid was in the ICU at
Speaker 3: Primary Children's and everybody was like, what are you crazy?
Speaker 3: And I was like, you know what the greatest escape is, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I for for for two hours. I'm not a mom
Speaker 3: whose kid might die in surgery. I'm a writer. I'm
Speaker 3: covering hockey and no one gives a crap. Yep, it's
Speaker 3: a game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it is all right, We'll catch a break.
Speaker 2: Amy's live in studio for another big segment coming up.
Speaker 2: All right, our friend Amy Donaldson, MUKSL and other platforms
Speaker 2: over the years, is live and studio for another big segment.
Speaker 2: You're gonna bring in Stevenson Sylvester. Today, Utah had a
Speaker 2: scrimmage over the weekend. We are nineteen days away from
Speaker 2: game day. And then Brett Siancia picked six previews will
Speaker 2: stop by, so Amy referenced during the break. Last segment
Speaker 2: was like a twenty five to thirty minute hit just
Speaker 2: on a lot of different things. You know, we went
Speaker 2: all over the place talking little inside baseball and you know,
Speaker 2: maybe some people like it, maybe some people don't. But
Speaker 2: that's okay, beauty of podcasting as you can listen to
Speaker 2: whatever part of the show you want to later on,
Speaker 2: but it's we're live now. I'm not going to use
Speaker 2: the term that I used during the break about the
Speaker 2: situation in the WNBA with certain things being thrown off
Speaker 2: on the floor. The WNBA finds itself in a really
Speaker 2: interesting place. And I was recently with family members for
Speaker 2: a family reunion and my sister in law was the
Speaker 2: Mountain West Conference freshman of the year at BYU and basketball.
Speaker 2: She unfortunately hurt both of her knees and so kind
Speaker 2: of cut her career short. They live in Indiana now,
Speaker 2: they live in Carmel, Indiana, and my little niece, Martha May,
Speaker 2: has this Kaitlin Clark jersey she wears all the time.
Speaker 2: And I'm actually going to visit them this weekend. We're
Speaker 2: going to a game. We're gonna go see Kaylen Clark
Speaker 2: in the fever.
Speaker 4: Play is back? Is she back from injuries?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I hope so.
Speaker 2: I know she had missed seven or eight straight games.
Speaker 2: What do you make of the way that she is covered?
Speaker 2: What do you make of the way that the sport
Speaker 2: is covered now as a result of the rising popularity
Speaker 2: that I hate to say, and it does seem to
Speaker 2: be because of Kayln Clark.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's only her, but.
Speaker 4: No, no, I wouldn't disagree with that.
Speaker 3: What I guess what I would say is there's coverage
Speaker 3: from people who don't know anything about what's basketball and
Speaker 3: don't know anything about the league and don't care about that,
Speaker 3: and they feel like they have to get on board
Speaker 3: with everything that's popular. And she's definitely like she's a
Speaker 3: she's You could ignore women's sports, and you could ignore
Speaker 3: the WNBA ninety percent of the time before Caitlin Clark,
Speaker 3: but once she broke on the scene in the in
Speaker 3: the NCAA tournament, there just was too much grassroots affection
Speaker 3: for her and really for the women's game. And so
Speaker 3: you saw this everybody sort of saying, oh, well, this
Speaker 3: is super popular, we have to do something about it.
Speaker 3: And you see this a lot with non traditional sports,
Speaker 3: but with when it comes to women's sports, and I
Speaker 3: would say women's basketball.
Speaker 1: In particular, Oh really, yeah, why do you think that is?
Speaker 3: Because I think there is a sexual bias. There's a
Speaker 3: gender slash sexual sexuality bias. And if men most of
Speaker 3: the media, I mean, they did these surveys every year
Speaker 3: when I was covering the Olympics, and they were eighty
Speaker 3: five to ninety percent male, and similar statistic white. But
Speaker 3: all of my bosses, all the bosses at all the
Speaker 3: news organizations across the country are are middle aged white
Speaker 3: guys or older, right, and so they drive and decide
Speaker 3: ultimately what we cover. And most of my colleagues were guys,
Speaker 3: very few men of color, lots of but lots of males.
Speaker 3: Even if they're men of color, they're all almost all male.
Speaker 3: And there would be time there were times in my
Speaker 3: career where I literally did not see a woman unless
Speaker 3: I was covering a women's game for weeks at a
Speaker 3: time professionally, right, just you just and I would be like, oh,
Speaker 3: I would notice when I saw another women journalist. I
Speaker 3: have a mini a selfie in my phone of me
Speaker 3: and the one or two or three other one and
Speaker 3: there were four of us at a football game. I
Speaker 3: made a sack of selfie. You put it on social
Speaker 3: media because it was four of us. Right, it was
Speaker 3: a high school game, so you know, there you go.
Speaker 3: But anyway, that.
Speaker 4: Was just so rare.
Speaker 3: So when most of the people deciding what to get covered,
Speaker 3: where you spend resources in media, are men, it's gonna
Speaker 3: be a tall order for women to get even thirty
Speaker 3: percent of the coverage if you just take a look.
Speaker 3: I mean back in the day we had daily newspapers.
Speaker 3: I did this all the time. I would keep track
Speaker 3: of how many stories would go on the front page,
Speaker 3: both at the Trip and at dese Right News for
Speaker 3: women's sports. And it was always a controversy BYU or
Speaker 3: it was like a local mom story like which I've
Speaker 3: written myself mom and also an athlete, right, so I
Speaker 3: or if you know there were firsts, there's always you
Speaker 3: know women, Oh it's women's History month. Oh it's an
Speaker 3: anniversary of Title nine. And we did those stories right,
Speaker 3: but like they just didn't make the cover. And that
Speaker 3: what I tell people is when you pay attention to something,
Speaker 3: that's what you're telling people what you care about.
Speaker 4: So if you don't pay attention to something, you don't
Speaker 4: care about it.
Speaker 3: And a lot of these guys, I would say sportstock
Speaker 3: radio is a hotbed of this, but there's a lot
Speaker 3: of newspaper and a number in broadcasts as well who
Speaker 3: haven't paid attention to the WNBA, don't even know how
Speaker 3: it works, don't care, and don't really see it as
Speaker 3: a league and an athletic league worth investing their time,
Speaker 3: energy and money, and so those people now are forced
Speaker 3: to to commentate and cover and I heard so much crap,
Speaker 3: so much bs, so much you know, vomit, verbal vomit.
Speaker 3: I'll just say from that those people who had had
Speaker 3: nothing good to say about women's sports. I covered the
Speaker 3: WNB when Utah, when the Utah Stars were here. I
Speaker 3: was a sidebar person for Linda Hamilton, two women covering Hamilton. Yeah,
Speaker 3: professional sports league, and it was the greatest three years
Speaker 3: of my professional I loved it so much, was so fun.
Speaker 3: I've also bought season tickets that I shared with two
Speaker 3: other families because I couldn't afford them by myself, because
Speaker 3: I was a single mom at the time, and I
Speaker 3: took my daughter those games so she could see even
Speaker 3: if she didn't play sports. See these options. You want
Speaker 3: to see women and you want to go. We've seen
Speaker 3: political speeches, We've seen musician. You want to see them
Speaker 3: in all these different roles, right and so, And I'm
Speaker 3: a kid, you know, grew up on that cusp of
Speaker 3: Title nine. I got opportunities my mom didn't have because
Speaker 3: of Title nine. So I was very cognizant of this
Speaker 3: when I took my kids and did things. My two
Speaker 3: daughters but to listen to them talk about the rise
Speaker 3: of Caitlin Clark and why she was so popular and
Speaker 3: what was happening was disgusting. It was disheartening, it was infuriating.
Speaker 3: And there were a lot of really great journalists who
Speaker 3: I won't repeat all o their but you can go
Speaker 3: back and read them. Sarah Spaine among them, who kept saying, hey,
Speaker 3: you guys are new to this game.
Speaker 4: Let me help you out.
Speaker 3: And they just spit on her just you know, you
Speaker 3: don't know you're talking about you're a lady who wants
Speaker 3: to be in sports, and you know it was that
Speaker 3: was really hard. So there were really there was really
Speaker 3: good coverage of the rise. But I'll tell you look
Speaker 3: at go back and watch the press conference when she
Speaker 3: got drafted and the guy who's talking to her Doyle,
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so yeah, I mean so and you and
Speaker 3: I think we talked about that. But she's had to
Speaker 3: deal with who is her boyfriend? Is she straight or gay? Uh?
Speaker 3: Paige Buker's same thing, you know, is she Sophie what's
Speaker 3: her name?
Speaker 4: That plays with Kaitlyn Clark? The plays with Kaitlin Clark.
Speaker 3: Now you know, oh she's hot and she's you know
Speaker 3: violent we love this, you know, so like there's this subset,
Speaker 3: so there's really good coverage out there, but you have
Speaker 3: to work for it. And then there's a lot of
Speaker 3: noise of people who who may know other sports, really
Speaker 3: popular guys, some of them I like and listen to
Speaker 3: their podcasts, who really really missed and instead of like
Speaker 3: correcting it.
Speaker 4: There's been a couple that have corrected.
Speaker 3: It, but a lot of them have come in and
Speaker 3: not said, I don't know this space. Let me let
Speaker 3: me come into this space intelligently, let me come, let
Speaker 3: me educate myself, let me bring people in who will
Speaker 3: help me navigate this place in a way that isn't
Speaker 3: harmful because women already endure it.
Speaker 4: Why do you think there's so much abuse in women's sports?
Speaker 3: Right? There are things that we already endure. There are
Speaker 3: things we're so lucky to be here, we're so happy
Speaker 3: to be at the table, we're so happy to have
Speaker 3: your breadcrumbs, that we just don't ever ask for what
Speaker 3: we actually should get. And case in point, when the
Speaker 3: women wore at the All Star Game, pay us, pay
Speaker 3: us what we're worth or whatever the T shirt said
Speaker 3: something about the pay like pay us what we should
Speaker 3: may or pay us what we're worth, and everybody was
Speaker 3: upset about it, and people like Sarah Spain said, look
Speaker 3: at the TV contracts, look at this, let's compare it
Speaker 3: to other leagues.
Speaker 4: Are the women making what they should make?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: And everybody's like, well, they don't make money. Well, there's
Speaker 3: other leagues that don't make money that pay their players
Speaker 3: millions of dollars, right, So that's not there.
Speaker 4: It's very complicated.
Speaker 3: But I think that the oversimplification and the sexism that's
Speaker 3: inherent in our business has made it both amazing and
Speaker 3: super fun.
Speaker 4: And I loved it. We've talked about it.
Speaker 3: It's giving me a lot of hope for the future.
Speaker 3: But it's all so just tiring. How many people just
Speaker 3: refuse to evolve, yeah, and learn and just say, oh,
Speaker 3: I learned this today. They just can't be wrong and
Speaker 3: that's a bummer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know the shirts that the women wore
Speaker 2: Overall Star weekend. It was really easy in a vacuum
Speaker 2: to give a snapshot reaction about, Okay, well, how much
Speaker 2: money does the league generate? What is the revenue of
Speaker 2: the WNBA. The ultimate reality is NBA players receive about
Speaker 2: fifty one percent of basketball related income and WNBA players
Speaker 2: receive about nine point three percent of their basketball related income. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't have their P and L statements. I don't
Speaker 2: know what that league makes compared to the WNBA. I
Speaker 2: do know evaluations for teams have gone through the roof
Speaker 2: to the tunes of hundreds of millions of dollars. But
Speaker 2: everybody in this attention economy, and that goes back to
Speaker 2: the sex toys being thrown on the floor. I mean,
Speaker 2: this cryptocurrency meme coin company is taking credit for it
Speaker 2: because they were clearly looking for attention.
Speaker 3: No. But and this to me is peak American sports moment.
Speaker 3: Women have fought and fought and fought just to get
Speaker 3: a tiny slice of attention, a tiny slice of the financing,
Speaker 3: a tiny slice of what's out there, right, and they
Speaker 3: finally get it.
Speaker 4: They're having this moment.
Speaker 3: Women's sports in general is having this moment where they're
Speaker 3: getting attention, where people want to invest financially in them,
Speaker 3: they want to invest their time with them, they want
Speaker 3: to learn their names. This is amazing, right, They want
Speaker 3: to pay attention to their records. And these dudes say,
Speaker 3: either we don't care about them, we just want to
Speaker 3: share of their attention. This is what happened, and this
Speaker 3: is what I think happened when Kaitlin Clark came on
Speaker 3: the scene. These sports talk guys and these there's some
Speaker 3: male columnists and podcasters who decided, oh my god, these
Speaker 3: women are having this moment, and they couldn't let us
Speaker 3: have this moment. They couldn't educate themselves, they couldn't defer
Speaker 3: to another. There were plenty of women who've covered the
Speaker 3: WA and womenen who've covered women's basketball in the WNBA.
Speaker 3: They could have had on their shows, but they didn't
Speaker 3: do that. They had to take a piece of that
Speaker 3: moment for themselves. They can't just let them succeed. They
Speaker 3: can't let them into this universe that they decided long
Speaker 3: ago was theirs, and they get to decide who comes
Speaker 3: in and why.
Speaker 4: It's maddening.
Speaker 3: But to me, that sex toy thing was the same
Speaker 3: situation as the Caitlin Clark coming on the same here's
Speaker 3: this moment. It's super fun where everything has to be
Speaker 3: a controversy, everything has to be about she's pretty and white,
Speaker 3: and so everyone else is trying to beat her up
Speaker 3: our you know, and I will say there is a bias.
Speaker 4: You look at coverage.
Speaker 3: Look at the coverage for women volleyball players or women's
Speaker 3: soccer soccer players compared to women's basketball players, or women
Speaker 3: boxers or women wrestlers or anything like that.
Speaker 4: There is a These menu are.
Speaker 3: In charge decide who's attractive and who will sell and
Speaker 3: we all know it sells, so I don't have to
Speaker 3: say it, but I could say it in a lot
Speaker 3: more direct way, which I do off the air, and
Speaker 3: that is that when they decide that, they decide that
Speaker 3: the pretty attractive women are worth investing in, and they
Speaker 3: play sports that men think are feminine, that are okay,
Speaker 3: and in fact, male volleyball players are still fighting for
Speaker 3: respect because it's so much a women's game in the US.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a corner covid never won a tournament, but
Speaker 2: you know she was dating.
Speaker 1: I think she married a singer pop singer. I can't remember.
Speaker 1: I'll eat the Iglesias guy or whatever who.
Speaker 2: By the way, I had the displeasure of seeing him
Speaker 2: perform live at like an NBA event. Good looking dude
Speaker 2: could not sing a lick that's a side, but had.
Speaker 1: A corner cove is a perfect example.
Speaker 2: Tennis skirt attractive never won a tournament, but was like
Speaker 2: the biggest star in her sport because of the way she.
Speaker 3: Looked, biggest start because the media would pay attention to her. Sure,
Speaker 3: this is the and this is the thing. And then
Speaker 3: but if you get media attention, then you can get sponsors.
Speaker 3: And this is what I always say, Like when we
Speaker 3: brought the Royals back, amazing investment from the community, you know,
Speaker 3: the ORGANI but I kept saying, like, there's this gap.
Speaker 4: How are you going to get the media to pay attention?
Speaker 3: Because if you can't get the media to pay attention,
Speaker 3: your sources of money will dry up. Because nobody wants
Speaker 3: to pay for something that just operates in the dark, right.
Speaker 3: They want attention. They want to be part of a
Speaker 3: winning thing, and especially when you're not winning. How are
Speaker 3: you getting these women sponsorship deals? How are you getting
Speaker 3: sponsors for your program so that you can buy the
Speaker 3: players you need so you can get the investment that
Speaker 3: you need in those women. And that's the missing link
Speaker 3: that nobody really can answer.
Speaker 2: So the last WNBA CBA was five years ago. Okay,
Speaker 2: So here are some figures to just give you some
Speaker 2: context as to why the shirts were worn and why
Speaker 2: the players are asking for more because the easiest thing
Speaker 2: for people to do is to use the narrative and look,
Speaker 2: the early years of the WNBA were bankrolled by the NBA.
Speaker 2: Nobody's running from that, but that was in the late nineties.
Speaker 2: That was twenty eight years ago.
Speaker 3: It's also their decision right to invest in women's sports.
Speaker 1: So here are the figures.
Speaker 2: So last year, an eleven year, two point two billion
Speaker 2: dollar TV deal with Disney, Amazon Prime, and NBC Universal,
Speaker 2: the league reported a jump of forty eight percent in attendance,
Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy percent increase in viewership, and a
Speaker 2: six hundred and one percent rise in merchandise sales and
Speaker 2: expansion fees and valuations now roughly average around two hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty million dollars. Okay, So again, these figures indicate
Speaker 2: that the money is there in a way that it
Speaker 2: has been prior to. And if you're a player and
Speaker 2: you look at the NHL where they get forty eight percent,
Speaker 2: you look at the NBA where they get fifty one percent,
Speaker 2: You look at Major League Baseball where it's fifty NFL
Speaker 2: the same, and you are realizing that you are entitled
Speaker 2: to nine point three percent of the revenue generated by
Speaker 2: your league. Put yourself in their shoes, you would be
Speaker 2: pissed off too.
Speaker 3: And I think, I mean I covered them when they
Speaker 3: had to have part time jobs or full time jobs overseas,
Speaker 3: but no, they did both. Yeah, I mean some of
Speaker 3: them had full time jobs and one was a paramedic.
Speaker 3: I remember this, And I mean Kate Starboard was a scientist.
Speaker 3: You know, she's still like Alder in COVID.
Speaker 4: She's like a maid.
Speaker 3: She's a professor and a scientist, and she was one
Speaker 3: of the best wings in the w NBA at the time.
Speaker 4: Right, Like, so.
Speaker 3: I I I have trouble with just the ignorance of oh,
Speaker 3: they're women, so they have all the required it is.
Speaker 3: It's that you don't really belong here. And really, let
Speaker 3: me just say, all those people who talk like that,
Speaker 3: they're just telling on themselves at this point. So I'm
Speaker 3: fine letting them talk because now I know who I'm
Speaker 3: not listening to.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you about. And this is an interesting
Speaker 2: dynamic here because a lot of young rookies in the NBA.
Speaker 2: There was a book called the Jordan Rules. You know
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan, when he was a young player in the NBA.
Speaker 2: The Detroit Pistons had a rule, no layups, no donks.
Speaker 1: You go in the lane and we're going to take
Speaker 1: your head off.
Speaker 2: Okay, So this isn't something that has only ever happened
Speaker 2: to Caitlin Clark, but there does seem to be some
Speaker 2: treatment of her from her peers.
Speaker 1: Oh it's a little bit no confusing to me. Why no,
Speaker 1: what do you think that is?
Speaker 3: So again I'll say this is there, that's not an
Speaker 3: figment of your imagination.
Speaker 4: That's true. And here's the thing.
Speaker 3: When you when you're a woman in business, they convince
Speaker 3: you that your biggest competition is other women because there's
Speaker 3: only room for one of you at the big table.
Speaker 3: So if you want to get in the big table,
Speaker 3: the room where it happens, then you've got to beat
Speaker 3: out all these other women.
Speaker 4: They don't tell you the men are your competition, just
Speaker 4: the other women. Right.
Speaker 3: So women are not the worst women. The worst people
Speaker 3: to me in my career have been other women in
Speaker 3: a lot of cases. Right, My mentors are mostly men,
Speaker 3: and that is not an accident. It's because women are
Speaker 3: pitted against each other through in business. Now that has
Speaker 3: been shifting, right, But so imagine you grow up in
Speaker 3: that situation and you're all competing for it. There's only
Speaker 3: this tiny tiny bit of spotlight, you know, this little
Speaker 3: tiny pinhole of spotlight.
Speaker 4: And if Caitlin Clark takes it all, there isn't.
Speaker 3: Any for Aja Wilson or Asia Wilson, there isn't any
Speaker 3: for you know, anybody. Page Bukers like you can't have
Speaker 3: two stars like we love in the NBA that there's
Speaker 3: a bunch of good rivalries.
Speaker 4: That we love. We love. That's what made the NBA great.
Speaker 3: It was what made it solve, and it was what
Speaker 3: made it a billion dollar business. That's what works is
Speaker 3: these rivalries is the good guy and the bad guy,
Speaker 3: is the villain and the and the hero.
Speaker 4: All those things really work.
Speaker 3: We love them, right, but we as women are taught,
Speaker 3: first of all, no one wants to be the villain.
Speaker 4: You're the villain.
Speaker 3: You're never getting a shoot al you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So you we can't do what men do. You can
Speaker 3: be Dennis Rodman and make a zillion dollars because you're
Speaker 3: the bad guy.
Speaker 4: Every I mean, think of hockey. Hockey wouldn't be.
Speaker 3: Hockey without a lot of people stepping up to say
Speaker 3: I want to be the villain.
Speaker 4: I want to be the enforcer. I want that role.
Speaker 3: So women don't get to do that, right, And that's
Speaker 3: what I love the Sophie Cunningham storyline because she's hot,
Speaker 3: so they're gonna let her be a villain. And I
Speaker 3: mean I love the commentary out of that. And and
Speaker 3: also like thoughts, here comes the verbal vomit, right, Oh,
Speaker 3: they hate her because she's beautiful. No, they don't. They
Speaker 3: hate her because she's being a villain. But she's being
Speaker 3: she's able to be a villain because she's hot. You know,
Speaker 3: if she was not hot, if she looked like some
Speaker 3: of the other women in WNBA, that would not be allowed.
Speaker 4: No one.
Speaker 3: They would be like, get that, put that animal in chains.
Speaker 3: I've heard this said about women basketball players, right, And
Speaker 3: so my problem is when you look at this, you
Speaker 3: can't look at it in isolation. It is part of
Speaker 3: society and we are told there's only so much for us,
Speaker 3: for women, it's a finite amount of resource.
Speaker 4: And what a lot of young women are learning is
Speaker 4: that's a lie.
Speaker 3: There's as much as we want to make there is
Speaker 3: no It's like love, there's no finite amount of it.
Speaker 3: We can we can create a different table, We can
Speaker 3: create a different universe, and a lot of the women
Speaker 3: are embracing it. Some of the women, especially the older women,
Speaker 3: are still in doctrine of the way I was, which is, hey,
Speaker 3: your competition is other women. I rejected that, right, but
Speaker 3: like a lot of women haven't. A lot of women
Speaker 3: in my age are still in that mindset. And they're
Speaker 3: in that mindset because if you want to get rewarded,
Speaker 3: you have to play in a men's world. I don't
Speaker 3: care about getting rewarded at this point. So you know,
Speaker 3: my reward is I get to do a job I love, sure,
Speaker 3: and I worked for a woman and I work with women.
Speaker 4: So there you go.
Speaker 2: All right, well said before I said you loose, give
Speaker 2: me a quick thought because you referenced the Royals and
Speaker 2: they trade alley for six hundred k spread out over
Speaker 2: three years, and you know, the coach comes out. I
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, she wanted to be traded. I mean,
Speaker 2: I can't speak to that. I don't know if that's
Speaker 2: the truth, but it's not even not a very good team.
Speaker 2: And she was she might be the starting striker for
Speaker 2: our women's national team during the next.
Speaker 1: World Cup cycle.
Speaker 2: Oh I'm sure and the last time they were here,
Speaker 2: they were second in NWSL and attendance. Portland was the
Speaker 2: only other city they was out drawing Salt Lake. I
Speaker 2: haven't seen the up to date numbers, but I've seen
Speaker 2: the crowds. They're not the same that they were. And
Speaker 2: now the Royals last time around had Becky and Kristin
Speaker 2: Press and several World Cup stars. But man, you get
Speaker 2: rid of Ali, and she seemed to be the main
Speaker 2: reason people are shown up.
Speaker 3: Well, I think I don't know. I don't know about
Speaker 3: why people are. I know, I'm a season ticket holder
Speaker 3: and I know why I do or don't show up,
Speaker 3: and it's not because of Ali. But I think the
Speaker 3: hard thing about the Ali trade is that they center
Speaker 3: to Kansas City, the best team in Louisa, who didn't
Speaker 3: need any help. And it just doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3: Why you Yeah, you treed Donovan Mitchell, but you don't
Speaker 3: send him to your your in conference rival, like you
Speaker 3: don't you know what I mean, Like there's some okay,
Speaker 3: you don't want to stay here or whatever. The reality is, right,
Speaker 3: whatever this story behind the scenes is, we have to this,
Speaker 3: we have to part ways. But the choice seemed like
Speaker 3: shooting yourself on the foot right, And it seemed like
Speaker 3: like no, there was no no self preservation mode. I
Speaker 3: guess you know what I mean, like, Okay, well this
Speaker 3: has to happen, but we're gonna do what we can
Speaker 3: to get X, Y or Z.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: It was like, let's just be nice for her. She
Speaker 4: wants to go.
Speaker 3: Their friends are there so cool, and it just seemed
Speaker 3: like to me, it's reminded me of like like a
Speaker 3: college thing or a little league thing, like it's not
Speaker 3: that big a deal. We're just friends, right, We're just
Speaker 3: having fun, And I'm like, this is business.
Speaker 1: Yeah right.
Speaker 3: So I think that was the thing that was baffling.
Speaker 3: I believe that she didn't want to stay here. I
Speaker 3: believe the coach when he was talking, and I think
Speaker 3: he's an amazing coach. And I know Dunny went off
Speaker 3: on David's show and said, you have to wonder, you know,
Speaker 3: what's happening or whatever, like what kind of culture they building?
Speaker 1: Whatever?
Speaker 3: Those are good questions to ask, right, But like I
Speaker 3: think you can talk to the women and they love
Speaker 3: what's being built there, and they love the way it's happening, right,
Speaker 3: And I mean we did a little off the record thing.
Speaker 3: And I don't know that I've met a male coach
Speaker 3: that I would rather play for.
Speaker 1: I don't know him at all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I won't talk about what was because it
Speaker 3: wasn't off the record thing. But I asked very pointed questions,
Speaker 3: including like do you know when your players are on
Speaker 3: their periods? So so yeah, I want like these are okay,
Speaker 3: I'll ask them because these affect a woman's health in
Speaker 3: a way that I mean, I'll never forget covering World
Speaker 3: Cup speed skating. Uh. You know, this is the highest
Speaker 3: level speed skating outside of the Olympics. And the woman
Speaker 3: who was the best speed skater in the world at
Speaker 3: one thousand meter what finishes a race goes over and
Speaker 3: throws up in a garbage can. So I'm thinking you
Speaker 3: mustut it flew right, I mean, you don't see that otherwise.
Speaker 3: So we wait for our time in the mix oone
Speaker 3: and I say, you know what's going on. I started
Speaker 3: my period this morning. I eat food. I shouldn't have
Speaker 3: eaten food. It always makes me sick and starts talking
Speaker 3: about it because any woman who's had a period knows
Speaker 3: it affects your health, It affects your ability to do
Speaker 3: all the things you do all the other days, right,
Speaker 3: And it was the first time though a professional athlete
Speaker 3: had brought it into the mix zone, and the men
Speaker 3: were visibly like, I don't.
Speaker 4: Want to talk about it, like whoa, whoa, whoa? Why?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't feel comfortables that question, why are we going yet?
Speaker 4: Well, I wouldn't ask. I didn't ask are you on
Speaker 4: your period?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 4: I wouldn't ask them on that, but I would say, like,
Speaker 4: what's up with you?
Speaker 3: I would say that to a male athlete, you just
Speaker 3: vomited in a garbage can after your race.
Speaker 4: What's going on? I'm not feeling great?
Speaker 3: This is what happened, right, what I talk I've had
Speaker 3: a football players I three Taco Bell burritos and it
Speaker 3: was not a good choice. So you asked us questions
Speaker 3: because they give you contact for what's happening. But like
Speaker 3: what I'm saying is women have not women are higher.
Speaker 3: Instead of knee injury that loosened your joints, they're all
Speaker 3: kinds of problems, back injury, neck injury. There's no higher
Speaker 3: concussion proto. The highest rate of concussion in high school
Speaker 3: sports is girls soccer. So there are reasons to know
Speaker 3: those things, right, and so I want to talk about
Speaker 3: those things with coaches and trainers and owners, and they
Speaker 3: haven't been. It hasn't been allowed, So I thought the
Speaker 3: perfect place was this off the record thing. It did
Speaker 3: make some people uncomfortable, I think, but you know who
Speaker 3: didn't get squeamished about it the coach. The coach who
Speaker 3: was like, not only do I know it, I know
Speaker 3: who and what and how it impacts them.
Speaker 4: And I changed things up for them based on that.
Speaker 3: That's great, And that to me is like, that's where
Speaker 3: we have to go with coaching in general. If we're
Speaker 3: going to be that sensitive about a man's injury, or
Speaker 3: you know, we try to be that sensitive now with
Speaker 3: mental health, right, why wouldn't we also factor in if
Speaker 3: you know women, you know their cycle is a hormones
Speaker 3: or a major part of their lives, right, and so
Speaker 3: why wouldn't you Why wouldn't that be a thing we
Speaker 3: talk about with trainers and medical staff and coaches. Right,
Speaker 3: But that's not happening. So I will say I don't
Speaker 3: know all of what went into it. I was shocked
Speaker 3: at that there wasn't an attempt to get more or
Speaker 3: to make it so that it didn't hurt the Royals
Speaker 3: in the short term, and that it didn't hurt so
Speaker 3: much in like a morale. From a morale perspective, there
Speaker 3: should have been I think a bigger statement about, hey,
Speaker 3: this is a situation. Here's why it's going to feel
Speaker 3: the way it's going to feel. But it was like, like,
Speaker 3: don't ask, let's pretend that this doesn't matter, and it matters.
Speaker 3: We already have it, as we've said, Uh, you know,
Speaker 3: an inferiority complex. We don't need, we don't need to
Speaker 3: fuel that fire. We need to address it right out
Speaker 3: of the gate and say this is going to hurt,
Speaker 3: but here's why it's not going to be. Here's why
Speaker 3: you shouldn't worry. Here's why you should still come out
Speaker 3: and support us. Here's what we're still doing, you know,
Speaker 3: and that that didn't.
Speaker 1: Happen, Amy, that is our time. It's always great to.
Speaker 4: See you talking about Chris is a Maidenson arcle.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but we are like ten minutes.
Speaker 4: I know, I know, and I'm super excited you have Sly.
Speaker 4: I love Sly.
Speaker 2: But we'll get you back soon. Okay, great to see it, Amy,
Speaker 2: Donald's and our friend from KSL.
Speaker 1: All right,