WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.759 And we're also building very sophisticated smart contract applications, so 2 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:10.279 we have one every Microsoft Xbox video game. All those 3 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:15.400 purchases are processed using a smart contract developed for EY 4 00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:16.960 and deployed for Microsoft. 5 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:25.079 This episode is brought to you by Gemini, which is 6 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:28.000 one of the top crypto exchanges in the industry. I've 7 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:30.359 been a user of Gemini for many years. They make 8 00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:32.840 it easy for you to buy, sell, and trade crypto. 9 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:35.719 Gemini has a lot of unique features. They have a 10 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:39.240 fully functional app, a credit card, they include staking on 11 00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:42.119 their platform, and they also have a stable coin called 12 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:46.280 Gemini Dollar, which is USD back and Gemini is certified, 13 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:50.560 regulated and licensed. They are available in seventy plus countries 14 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:53.320 and if you sign up using my code or link 15 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:55.719 which will be in a description, you can get fifteen 16 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:58.799 dollars in bitcoin when you trade your first one hundred dollars. 17 00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:01.840 So if you'd like to learn more about Gemini, visit 18 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:05.239 the link in the description. Welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. 19 00:01:05.319 --> 00:01:07.719 I'm your host, Tony Edward, and with me today is 20 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:11.439 Paul Brody, who is the global blockchain leader at e 21 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:15.760 Y also the chairman of the Ethereum Enterprise alliance and 22 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:19.480 also an author. Paul, great to have you on Hey. 23 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:21.280 Thanks for having me, Paul. 24 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:24.239 I'm super excited to speak with you. I've followed EY 25 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:28.120 for years. Of course, I've seen the brand in different places. 26 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:30.879 On the Garden State Parkway that I drive down here 27 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:33.680 in New Jersey, I see the EY logo and a building, 28 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:37.560 and the fact that you folks are building with blockchain 29 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:40.959 and doing all types of great things has me really excited. 30 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:43.840 So I want to learn all the details. But before 31 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:46.439 we get there, tell us about yourself on your background. 32 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:53.519 So jeez, that's a wonderful open ended question. I really 33 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:57.400 I got into the blockchain business by accident, kind of 34 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:01.719 an entirely unintentional way. I used to I've always kind 35 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:04.519 of been in the technology business, and before I came 36 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:09.240 to EY, I spent about fourteen years at IBM, And 37 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:14.800 while I was at IBM, I got very excited about 38 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:18.639 sort of cloud computing and especially distributed computing, where these 39 00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:21.719 devices that we own are getting very, very smart. And 40 00:02:22.039 --> 00:02:24.759 one of the really strange things about these super smart 41 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:27.599 devices we own is that somehow we still need all 42 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:31.439 this cloud infrastructure to manage them. And I got into 43 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:33.840 this idea of Hey, if the devices are really smart, 44 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:38.599 we should be able to make software where the devices 45 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:41.639 managed themselves. And so we started looking. I had a 46 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:45.159 little research team. We started looking at a decentralized and 47 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:48.000 distributed computing and somebody came to me they said, hey, 48 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:52.840 bigcoin is like a decentralized computing thing, and I got 49 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:55.000 very excited. I's like, wow, it looks really amazing. It's 50 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:59.639 it's decentralized computing, it's permissionless, and it's even got kind 51 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:02.719 of a flo of money in it. And we were 52 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:05.639 going down this bitcoin path, which was already very exciting, 53 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:08.080 when somebody came to me and said, you know, I 54 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:12.840 found something that's really cool. It's like Bitcoin but programmable. 55 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:15.639 And I've met this guy. His name is Metallic. You 56 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:19.000 got to meet him, and that like directed us again. 57 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:22.120 And honestly, once I went down this road, I mean, 58 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:26.120 first of all, we built IBM's very first blockchain product, 59 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:29.520 which was for kind of smart devices. We launched it 60 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:33.120 with Samsung as a prototype, but also for me, it 61 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:35.240 really kind of changed my life. It's like, this is it, 62 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:38.159 this is the future. I want to go do this. 63 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:43.599 And when did you meet Metallic? Was that before etherorem 64 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:45.879 became a thing, or was it In the early days 65 00:03:45.879 --> 00:03:46.639 after I launched. 66 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:50.520 We were actually working on the alpha version of Ethereum 67 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:52.719 when I was at IBM, so this was this was 68 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:58.599 like twenty thirteen. My engineering team was working on this 69 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:03.240 and we really got ramping up in twenty fourteen and 70 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:08.159 we showed we showed our protoce pipe with Samsung at 71 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:12.479 the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January twenty fifteen. 72 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:15.120 And I have this great picture. It's it's so funny. 73 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:18.839 It's like the IBM crew on one side, and it's 74 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:22.240 the it's the Samsung crew on the other and in 75 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:26.439 the middle are like me and Vitalic and you know 76 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:29.120 it just like, I keep that picture because it's it's 77 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:31.839 such a fun reminder, like we had no idea what 78 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:33.839 we're doing. We didn't know what was going to become 79 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:37.079 a huge thing. But I think for a lot of 80 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:39.160 the people in that picture, certainly for me, it really 81 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:40.480 changes the course of my career. 82 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:45.079 Oh absolutely, that's amazing. And I'm sure you have that frame, 83 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:47.759 that picture frame somewhere in your office or something like that. 84 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:51.120 I had to say in my office, but I know 85 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:54.439 where it is in my like iPhoto archive. And it's 86 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:56.800 funny actually because I you know, I've stayed in touch 87 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.160 with him Talaic. He wrote like a nice little forward 88 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:02.199 for my book and I send him a copy and 89 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:05.600 it's actually really cool. A couple of weeks ago he 90 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:08.519 DMed me and he's like, you know, I've just been 91 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:10.639 reading your book and I want to talk about like 92 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:13.720 you know, some of these like protocols that you kind 93 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:15.240 of envisioned. And I was like, wow, that is so 94 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:18.800 it's very exciting, you know. It is so awesome when 95 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:20.879 people come up to you like, hey, I was reading 96 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:23.399 your book and I thought about this, or I read 97 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:26.680 your book and it caused me to change like how 98 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:30.360 I'm thinking about the business or my career path stuff 99 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:33.519 like that. It's it's it's really awesome. It's also, honestly, 100 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:37.160 it's a little bit scary because you feel like this responsibility, 101 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:39.959 like I, when did I become a role model for people? 102 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:41.360 For sure? 103 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:42.959 So tell us a bit more about your book. It 104 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:45.160 is the topic is of course, arounding your theorem. 105 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:48.720 Yeah, so the book is called the Theoeum for Business 106 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:52.800 and what I For a long time, I spent so 107 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:55.199 much of my time, especially in ey I just kind 108 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:58.319 of explaining to people, like, first of all, what is crypto, 109 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:01.160 what is blochain, and like cows that work. But also, 110 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:04.879 you know, the inevitable next question from people is what's 111 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:07.959 the point? Why what are you doing with this stuff? 112 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:11.120 Like why does any of this matter? Why is bitcoin important? 113 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:14.600 Why is the theory important? And so I wrote the 114 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:19.600 book to kind of answer those questions in playing English 115 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:23.120 with no technical jargon. And so there's three parts of 116 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:26.439 the book. The first part is in very plain English, 117 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:31.439 what are blockchains right? How does the theory work? Why 118 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:34.040 is it actually really important to have a public blockchain, 119 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:37.360 Why is it that permission private blockchains are really not 120 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:42.439 a super constructive, helpful thing to have around, and why 121 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:46.360 in particular is privacy technology important part of the overall 122 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:50.720 blockchain picture. So that's that's the first part. The second part, 123 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:54.079 the main chunk of the book, is like twenty chapters 124 00:06:54.160 --> 00:07:02.639 on specific use cases Payman's supply chain management, procurement, carbon 125 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:06.720 emissions tracking, things that businesses can do that are practical 126 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:11.240 and useful on ethereum with this technology. And then the 127 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:13.439 last part there's a little bit of a section which 128 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:16.120 is just on things like you know, what's an audit? 129 00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:18.199 You know, this is a business. By the way, people 130 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:20.360 are running around with this business saying, oh, we did 131 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:23.600 the audit, We've been security audited, we've been audits. Like no, 132 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:26.720 all these people who are saying that their audits like 133 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:28.879 that most of the things that people talk about as 134 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:33.160 audits are not really audits. Their reviews or their assessments, 135 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:35.920 but they're not audits, right, And I speak at somebody, 136 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:37.360 I'm not an account but I do work as an 137 00:07:37.399 --> 00:07:40.519 audit from I do. Actually, in almost ten years, I 138 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:42.879 finally figured out what an audit is and whatever it is. 139 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:46.000 It's not all this security stuff that people claim to 140 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:49.399 be doing, right, And so I kind of explained like 141 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:52.439 what is an audit? Right? What is a real audit? Like, 142 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:54.839 what is not an audit? How do you actually kind 143 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:58.720 of check security properly? And also just other things that 144 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:00.639 people ask a lot about in the bit were like, 145 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:04.839 you know, what's the what's the carbon foot print of eterium? 146 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.120 Is this like a huge problem, Like isn't it crazy 147 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:10.040 to use a blockchain to track emissions? It's the carbon 148 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:12.879 equipment is really high, And so kind of just dispel 149 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:15.560 a lot of the miss and misunderstandings that people have 150 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:17.079 around this technology. 151 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:20.360 I love it. And one of the challenges I've seen 152 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:23.079 over the years is the education and awareness is not 153 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.639 there of the use cases. And sometimes people, uh, you know, 154 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:29.560 they follow headlines, they listen to some skeptic we said, oh, 155 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:32.919 this is a fax machine or there's no use for it, right, 156 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:36.399 But there are uses, there are release use cases, and 157 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:38.240 it will solve a lot of problems. I love that 158 00:08:38.279 --> 00:08:39.279 your book explains that. 159 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:42.159 Yeah, people were saying like, oh, NFT is just a 160 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:46.720 little bit of barts. No, NFTs are essential for industrial infrastructure. 161 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:51.000 Every every car, every piece of factory machinery, every every 162 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:54.000 satellite in orbit. That's an NFT. It's a non fundatable, 163 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:54.679 unique guide. 164 00:08:56.360 --> 00:08:59.919 Absolutely. And you are also the chairman of the enterprise. 165 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:03.240 It's give me the Etherem Enterprise Alliance. Tell us about 166 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:06.039 what you're doing there and the initiatives and so forth. 167 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:10.840 So the real purpose of the EEA is to as 168 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:15.000 a group represent the etherium business users, right, to get 169 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:17.879 us together. And you know we're we're a very sort 170 00:09:17.879 --> 00:09:21.480 of fun but boring industry association, right. We do meetups, 171 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:26.120 we do conferences, we're sponsoring like a business day called 172 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:31.799 Industry Day at DevCon next month in Thailands. So we 173 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:34.440 have meetups, We work on standards we just published like 174 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:40.240 defied risk standards, we published cross chain interoperability standards, so 175 00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:44.480 and we you know, we basically work on education as well. 176 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:48.759 We are here both to talk to the Ethereum Foundation 177 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:52.559 about what business users want and we're also here to 178 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:55.559 talk to the business world about how you make use 179 00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:59.720 of Ethereum and really educate people about the practical applications 180 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:00.639 of this technology. 181 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:04.960 So let's talk EY. For those who may not know 182 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:07.720 about the firm. I know what it is, but you know, 183 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:10.039 sometimes people haven't heard about the brand, or they may 184 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:12.399 have heard of Ernest thing young and not realize it's EY. 185 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:15.799 Tell us about the company a quick overview, and also 186 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:17.720 some of the blockchain initiatives you're working on. 187 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:21.559 Absolutely. So EY is one of these sort of what 188 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:25.000 the people call the big four global professional services firms. 189 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:30.399 They're all grounded in financial statement auditing, but they all 190 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:36.039 also offer consulting, usually tax advice in some country legal 191 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:39.000 services as well, right, so they're just really big professional 192 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:44.799 services firms, you know, firms like EY. We serve pretty 193 00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:47.480 much every big company out ours You can think of 194 00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:50.519 a big company, either we are their auditor, or we 195 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:53.799 provide tax advice, or we provide consulting advice like we are, 196 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:57.240 or we do kind of system integration work. So firms 197 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:01.879 like euy have this this direct path into the world's 198 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:05.879 largest businesses and we do a lot of kind of 199 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:08.440 essential services for them. And you know, from my point 200 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:13.039 of view, we are therefore also an incredible mechanism to 201 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:18.279 deliver transformation around blockchain technology. Right if if you ask, 202 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:21.879 like any CFO, any chief financial officer, hey, do you 203 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:24.279 have to say payment and bitcoin? Like would you use 204 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:27.039 stable coins? The first thing they're going to say is, 205 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:29.600 let me check with my auditor, let me check with 206 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:32.639 my financing, let me check with my technology team. Is 207 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:34.480 it safe to do it? Is it legal? Can we 208 00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:36.279 do it? And we have to pay taxes on it? 209 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:40.799 And so I see, you know, particularly for the blockchain 210 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:43.639 team of hy I see this path for us where 211 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:48.600 we our mission is to make the world's business users 212 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:53.480 feel comfortable, ready and able to go use this technology, 213 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:56.639 and that takes a bunch of different forms. By far, 214 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:59.720 the biggest thing we do is just financial statement audits. 215 00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:04.360 All that like a ton of these cryptocurrency exchanges. We've 216 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:07.799 built a lot of technology for audits. You know, some 217 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:10.639 things that are very simple but super important. Like let's 218 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:13.000 say you've give an exchange one thousand dollars to buy 219 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.120 some bitcoin for you. One of the things that our 220 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:18.399 technology does, and one of the things that auditors do, 221 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:20.919 is they say, okay, they got one thousand dollars, and 222 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:25.240 we match their financial transactions, their internal record of a 223 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:28.919 transaction with what's on chain, Like if we add up 224 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.279 all the money that was given to this exchange, do 225 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.679 they have that much bitcoin on shame? Like? Can we 226 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:38.399 verify that? That is kind of a foundational thing that 227 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:40.840 that auditors do, and they do other things like check 228 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:44.840 for you know, are you properly separating duties? Like do 229 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:48.120 you make sure that nobody's pledging bitcoin that you owe 230 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.559 your depositors to say somebody else. So financial favorite audit 231 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.159 is hugely important and I think critical to giving people 232 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:00.759 confidence that companies can they can buy and safe for 233 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:03.080 use crypt though with other businesses. 234 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.279 I love that. Sorry go ahead, No, I was going 235 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:08.879 to say the keyword you use there is critical because 236 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:12.799 in a post FTX world, we see how important that is. 237 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:16.519 And no, commingling these exchanges have the funds they say 238 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:17.879 they have, and so on and so forth. 239 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:21.559 Yeah, absolutely, And I you know, one of the things 240 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:24.120 that I've been really happy to see is like, for example, 241 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:27.120 with the marketing crypto assets regulation in the European Union, 242 00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:31.039 they've laid out a really good regulatory framework and it 243 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:35.320 will It has a clear role for what auditors are 244 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:38.159 supposed to do, what kind of business controls companies are 245 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:42.120 supposed to put in, and you know this this is 246 00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:47.679 really really great because without it, people don't often know 247 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:52.159 even what to ask for. But with it, the rules 248 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.720 are very clear. If you're going to play in this market, 249 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:57.120 you need to have these certain controls just like those 250 00:13:57.159 --> 00:14:00.639 in place, hugely important, right And I also, by the way, 251 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:04.879 like it's a much better marketplace when people are all 252 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:08.600 operating legitimately. I can tell you it's super frustrating for 253 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.799 legitimate businesses to compete with frauds because frauds can make 254 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:16.440 promises legitimate businesses can't match. Right. 255 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:21.000 Absolutely, you were mentioning there was a second item of 256 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:23.000 related to what you're doing as hard as initiatives. 257 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.480 Yeah, so if I think about sort of the stuff 258 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:29.200 that we do, one is financial statement audits right, and 259 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:32.720 then in addition to financial statement audits, we also build 260 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:37.879 applications and do business services. So we have consulting services, 261 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:40.879 we do implementations, we build things kind of for higher 262 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:45.720 for clients. But additionally, we are really and we're quite 263 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:47.879 unique in this compared to pretty much any of the 264 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:52.559 big professional services firms. We are building applications on top 265 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:56.440 of it. The area and our applications are for business 266 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:59.000 users and we build quite a few of them. So 267 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:02.240 one of the ones that we built is a smart 268 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:06.399 contract security testing system. You can actually go in, you 269 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:09.919 can test your smart contracts, you can simulate smart contracts, 270 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:11.879 and you can also hire us to do a full 271 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:17.120 security review of your smart contracts. Secondly, we are building 272 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:22.480 more sort of direct operational business application so we have 273 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:27.240 one that is for minting NFTs. We have one for 274 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:30.360 supply chain traceability. We're tracking I think something in the 275 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:33.600 order of like six or seven million bottles of wine, 276 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:38.360 millions of bottles of beer, like many many tens of 277 00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:42.480 thousands of vaccines. Like that's a very typical application. And 278 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:46.960 we're also building very sophisticated smart contract applications. So we 279 00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:53.000 have one every Microsoft Xbox video game. All those purchases 280 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:57.759 are processed using a smart contract developed for EY and 281 00:15:57.799 --> 00:15:59.000 deployed for Microsoft. 282 00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:00.000 Wow. 283 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:04.039 We've also just started a really cool program that we're 284 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:10.559 rolling out, which is it enables companies to manage their 285 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:15.279 renewable energy purchasing, their green electric purchasing on a blockchain 286 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:20.200 using a smart contract built with privacy technology, so your 287 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:22.159 competitors cannot see what you're doing. 288 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:26.320 So that was going to be my next question. Are 289 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:30.039 these blockchains that are being built on top of eight 290 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:34.039 are they private? Assuming their permission? So it's just within 291 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:35.320 the enterprise. 292 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:39.200 They're generally not permission in the case of Microsoft, so 293 00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:42.440 very early on and we are again, so we're super 294 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:44.559 unusual in the sentence that euy is really the only 295 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:48.200 big firm that made a commitment pretty much from day 296 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:52.200 one that our priority are public blockchains. Now that doesn't 297 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:54.799 mean that we never do kind of permission systems. We 298 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:57.840 do from time to time, but so the most part, 299 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:01.399 we really try to build on public chains. Specifically, we're 300 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.640 a very ethereum centric. We're a build on an ethereum organization, 301 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:07.759 and that's just that's just for me. It's it's very strategic, 302 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:11.319 Like I would rather be the best in the world 303 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:15.039 at Ethereum than okay, like five different things, Like it's 304 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:18.440 just about focus, right, I have a limited engineering budget. 305 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:20.599 I want to be great at Ethereum. The thing that 306 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:23.799 is important and the reason why people are always embracing 307 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:29.400 permission change is enterprises needed privacy. Right. No company wants 308 00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:31.920 to show their competition what they're buying, where it's going, 309 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:35.400 how much they're paying. And so the last thing that 310 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.480 we do, and one of the things I'm especially proud of, 311 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:45.519 is we do privacy technology research. So lots of companies 312 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:47.680 for a decade, lots of companies people have looked at 313 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:51.359 the ethereum and said, scalability is a problem. I looked 314 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.920 at Ethereum and I said, privacy is the gap, and 315 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.720 very few people are working on privacy. And so we 316 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:01.799 made it our priority, and we have built and industrialize 317 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:05.359 the tools that make it possible for companies to transact 318 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:10.039 with privacy on top of public Etherium, and we've donated 319 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:13.680 those tools into the public domain so anybody can use them. 320 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:17.960 Now, there have been people that said why, and it's 321 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:21.200 not me, but just questions in general, why would someone 322 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:25.200 build an ether given that maybe it's slower from a 323 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:27.920 transaction standpoint, because there are layer twos that help to 324 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:32.960 uh scale it and improve transaction speed but also transaction costs. 325 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.559 So tell us a bit about that. Is it the security? 326 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:40.599 These these companies want security and they want something that 327 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:42.759 is trusted and you know that works. 328 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:47.279 So layer twos in my point of view, are Ethereum. 329 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:51.279 They're they're even compatible. They build on top of Etherium. 330 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:53.200 So when I say that we build on Etheroereum, the 331 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:55.359 truth is actually from most of the things that we do, 332 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:59.319 we actually deploy on top of an L two or 333 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.559 a side cham like Polygon or Base or some of 334 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:05.559 these others. Right. And in fact, our privacy tool that 335 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:09.119 we built called Nightfall, that we put into the public domain, 336 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:11.720 it's it's deployed on the Polygon proof of state network, 337 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:14.480 but it can also be deployed on like Base. It 338 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.400 can be deployed on Ethereum as an L two on 339 00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:21.400 basis an L three for example. So you know Ethereum 340 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:25.119 plus the L two is are the Ethereum ecosystem. Now 341 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:27.799 the point you make, though is a good one. People 342 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:30.359 are like, well, why not all these other chains, because 343 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:32.440 you know, one of the things that you can get 344 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:36.319 sucked into really easily. Is this whole discussion of like hey, 345 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:40.640 x y Z chain has a faster finality or whatever. 346 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:46.720 I regard that as a kind of those kinds of 347 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:50.720 debates as a little bit of a dead end. Historically 348 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:54.400 in the technology world, the best technology does not win. 349 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.559 Technology improves all the time, but it's really the best 350 00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:02.279 one that right. Nobody is going around saying that the 351 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:05.799 desktop remote operating systems we have are the best ones 352 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:08.680 that are possible. They are just the ones that happened 353 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:10.720 to be good enough at a certain point in time 354 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:14.240 to get mass adoption. That was Ethereum. That was easy, 355 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:16.480 And I'm going to get sucked into this debate about 356 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.400 which one is better. I'm just going to say, the 357 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:21.799 vast majority of the world's developers and money and users 358 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:26.079 is in the Ethereum ecosystem. Therefore, we are going to 359 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:28.720 build in the Ethereum because we are going to build where 360 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:30.319 our customers are already. 361 00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:34.839 Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. And I know Etheroreum has 362 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:38.240 had a first move or advantage, but I think one 363 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:41.200 of the things I've heard and seeing is the security aspect. 364 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:44.079 It's trusted. There are a lot of folks building on it. 365 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:47.839 So that's a great point that you brought up. Now, 366 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:53.079 you mentioned the wine industry, you mentioned pharmaceutical If I'm 367 00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:57.519 not mistaken, what are the industries are you seeing leveraging 368 00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:00.680 your services? Auto? Are there others call outs? 369 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:06.799 So fundamentally, every business agreement on Earth boils down something face. 370 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:10.599 I've got money, you got stuff, and we're changing my 371 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:13.319 money for your stuff under the term of agreement, under 372 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:17.559 terms of an agreement that describes every single industry on Earth. Now, 373 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:20.599 in financial services, it's just a swap, right I want 374 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.000 to buy some sock or a bond or a bigcoin token, 375 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:27.359 it's just money for the market price. But in most 376 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:30.799 other business environments there's actually a complicated agreement. If you 377 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.599 think about a big car company and the relationship that 378 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.000 they have with a supply, it's usually like some of 379 00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:40.119 these relationships last for decades. They have special terms and conditions, 380 00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:44.160 they have special rules. My goal is to basically build 381 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:48.960 the tools that allow any company to transact with any 382 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:53.599 other company. Because we can represent the money as diggal tokens, right, 383 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:57.519 stable coins or crypto. We can represent the sauce as 384 00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:00.519 digital tokens that can be real world assets. They can 385 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.119 be physical assets, cars, paintings, crypto acids, doesn't matter what 386 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:06.359 it is. The money in the stuff are tokens and 387 00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:09.480 the agreement that covers their exchange in the smart contract. 388 00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:14.559 So what we're what we've been limited to in the 389 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.839 recent past is things that people are willing to do 390 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:24.640 without privacy because privacy like hugely increased your transaction costs. 391 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.720 We're now entering into this era where we have industrialized 392 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:34.039 privacy infrastructure that we can run on a public chain efficiently, 393 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:36.759 and so we're going to start to get into what 394 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.720 I hope are We're going to shift from marketing stuff 395 00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:42.160 like hey, look, I have six million bottles of wine 396 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:44.039 on the blockchain and you can see where they went 397 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:49.000 to operational stuff, which is I've got, you know, three 398 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.519 million auto parts moving through my factory kind of structures. 399 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.519 They're going out to distributors and dealers. We just finished 400 00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:58.599 a prototype for big Electronics Jumping, which I'm very excited about. 401 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.680