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<v Speaker 1>Hey everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Sierra and I'm Ben, and welcome back to another

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<v Speaker 2>episode of The Unsolved Couple, where every week Ben and

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<v Speaker 2>I recap one of your original gateway drugs into true.

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<v Speaker 1>Crime unsolved mysteries.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm excited. It's crime Con week. I will be

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<v Speaker 2>reporting after we get back. There's going to be heads up.

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<v Speaker 2>This week's episode is actually going to be split into two.

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<v Speaker 2>It'll make sense in a little while. We'll get into that.

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<v Speaker 2>But before we get rocking and rolling on today's episode,

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<v Speaker 2>just a quick reminder to follow us wherever you guys

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<v Speaker 2>are listening. Just click that follow buttons would automatically downloads

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<v Speaker 2>into your feed every week. Find us on social media.

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<v Speaker 2>We have a Facebook discussion group, we have a TikTok,

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<v Speaker 2>and we have an Instagram All Unsolved Coupled Pod. You

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<v Speaker 2>can email us on self couplepod at gmail dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>And you can support this show a couple of different

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<v Speaker 2>so there's a buy me a Coffee link down below

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<v Speaker 2>as well as if you guys are interested in ad

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<v Speaker 2>free episodes, that is an option for four dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>A month in the link below.

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<v Speaker 2>Through our podcast feed, you can access all of our

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<v Speaker 2>backhog everything you guys want could ever want need through

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<v Speaker 2>Unsolved Couple for four dollars a month and get ad

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<v Speaker 2>free episodes.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So.

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<v Speaker 2>I loved today's episode that we're recapping.

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<v Speaker 1>Ben was not in. I absolutely freaking hated this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>And you're gonna know that I loved it because between

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<v Speaker 2>the two episodes, I have seventeen pages of notes.

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<v Speaker 1>I have one. Seriously, yep, let's just I'm going to acknowledge,

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<v Speaker 1>okay that I got a computer.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, Ben's notes have shifted, you guys from and

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<v Speaker 2>it's not even open right now, so when he still

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<v Speaker 2>is going to have to at some point say hold.

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<v Speaker 1>On, let me let the notes. Yep. But I I

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<v Speaker 1>can't tell you how much I hated this episode. It

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<v Speaker 1>annoyed me. I thought it was incredible and this was

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<v Speaker 1>hands down the hardest episode for me to sit down

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<v Speaker 1>and do my notes on. I just I didn't care

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<v Speaker 1>for the way they present it.

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<v Speaker 2>They definitely take a change, right, it is a they

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<v Speaker 2>So we are covering its season four what episode twenty three?

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<v Speaker 1>So what's it called?

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<v Speaker 2>Because they said it a thousand times been the unsolved

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<v Speaker 2>mystery of.

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<v Speaker 1>If I have to hear this word, you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>hear it one more time, the diabolical Mind.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's called it's a special episode called.

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<v Speaker 1>The diet balla mind. Do you know how many times

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Stack he said it a lot, the diabolical mind.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't like that word diabolical. Yep, I don't like it.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I think I don't know. Just because

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<v Speaker 1>I don't like something doesn't mean I have a reason,

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<v Speaker 1>all right. I don't have to have a reason. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't want a reason. I just want to say I

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<v Speaker 1>don't like it, okay, fair, And maybe this episode ruined

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<v Speaker 1>it for me, maybe because it was said so many times.

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<v Speaker 1>So I looked at the history of this.

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<v Speaker 2>As we know, film Rise bought the rights to the

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<v Speaker 2>show Unsolved Mysteries, and for whatever reason, and this is

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<v Speaker 2>the Unsolved Mysteries about the show Unsolved Mysteries, they removed

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of stories. I think I've seen a number

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<v Speaker 2>of like in the upwards of a couple of hundred cases.

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<v Speaker 1>Hundreds of cases. I told you I did, I dug in, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's a lot even up to the point we

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<v Speaker 1>are at a lot of stories. That's what I was

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<v Speaker 1>going to say.

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<v Speaker 2>This special edition Unsolved Mysteries episode was originally supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>be their one hundredth episode, which makes sense as to

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<v Speaker 2>why they kind of stepped outside of their norm.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh it doesn't.

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<v Speaker 2>We we did the Amy Bradley case on our one

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<v Speaker 2>year anniversary.

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<v Speaker 1>We stepped outside of our box, Yes, but I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>My point is is that we're actually only at like

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<v Speaker 2>ninety something episode, so they're there alone is like six

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<v Speaker 2>seven episodes worth of content missing from the original aired

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<v Speaker 2>versions of these. So this was originally their one hundredth

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<v Speaker 2>episode of Unsolved Mysteries, and we today are going to

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<v Speaker 2>actually break it into part one in part two because

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<v Speaker 2>apparently one of us actually prepared a whole script for

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<v Speaker 2>two episodes. So when I watched this, Ben Brog, what

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<v Speaker 2>are you.

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<v Speaker 1>Trying to say? Are you throwing shade? As your co.

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<v Speaker 2>Host, I'm throwing a little bit of shade because I'm

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<v Speaker 2>shocked that you have one page of notes. So when

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<v Speaker 2>I watched this originally, it felt like a little overwhelming, because, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>how are we going to share this because it's not

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<v Speaker 2>recap and update or you know what's happening today. It's

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<v Speaker 2>all of these different stories and this reminds it's just

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<v Speaker 2>it's the mystery of why people do terrible things to

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<v Speaker 2>other people.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a drive by and in the.

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<v Speaker 2>World of true crime that Ben is not a part

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<v Speaker 2>of a lot of people have asked this question, how

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<v Speaker 2>do people become this quote unquote diabolical? Is it nature?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it nurture? Is it a combination of the two?

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<v Speaker 2>Are there early warning signs that you can be aware of,

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<v Speaker 2>are there paths of recovery and treatment and all? And

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<v Speaker 2>these questions today are still fiercely talked about and debated

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<v Speaker 2>within the world of true crime. And so I have

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<v Speaker 2>always found that aspect of the psychology and sociology.

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<v Speaker 1>Of it all very interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>So I found this story, or this case, these cases,

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<v Speaker 2>I thought the way this was laid out was really

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<v Speaker 2>an opening conversation to have about that.

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<v Speaker 1>And so.

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<v Speaker 2>Off the top, I'm going to read to you what

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<v Speaker 2>Robert Stack said to us quote. The words diabolical and

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<v Speaker 2>sociopath bring to mind the lured villains from horror movies,

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<v Speaker 2>out of control, glassy eyed, unkept manics. Real life sociopaths

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<v Speaker 2>bear little resemblance to these movie mad men. They hold jobs,

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<v Speaker 2>shop for groceries, and appear no different than the rest

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<v Speaker 2>of us. Most of the time. Some psychiatrists argue that

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<v Speaker 2>the focus on violent and criminal psychopath behavior has marginalized

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<v Speaker 2>the study of what they call quote successful psychopaths, people

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<v Speaker 2>who have psychopathic tendencies but who can stay out of

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<v Speaker 2>trouble and perhaps even benefit from these traits in some way.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's kind of the introduction to this is how

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<v Speaker 2>are some people's psychopaths successful in Some psychopaths become terrible

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<v Speaker 2>human beings in the world and go on to commit

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<v Speaker 2>great atrocities, And so we dive into a few of them. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm going to tell you sure we sure do.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm going to tell you guys about a few

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<v Speaker 2>of the psychopaths mentioned on that you guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Are about to find out how little I know.

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<v Speaker 2>And part of the reason I was excited about this

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<v Speaker 2>is because I have a feeling Ben is not. To

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<v Speaker 2>most of us listening to true crime podcasts, these names

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<v Speaker 2>are going to be quite familiar, and their stories are

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<v Speaker 2>quite familiar to us. I think for Ben, he probably

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<v Speaker 2>hasn't heard a lot of these things before. And I

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<v Speaker 2>just think I think, as you are listening to these

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<v Speaker 2>two cases that I'm going to talk about, it's important

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<v Speaker 2>to note maybe some similarities in childhood and different events

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<v Speaker 2>and things like that, so that we can go on

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<v Speaker 2>to have the conversation about nature versus nurture. Okay, so

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<v Speaker 2>we start out. Psychopaths often succeed in business because of

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<v Speaker 2>their defining traits such as lack of empathy, fearless dominance,

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<v Speaker 2>and a superficial charm. This all aligns well with the

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<v Speaker 2>demands of a corporate environment. It's very likely that you

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<v Speaker 2>interact with some of these people who fit these traits

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<v Speaker 2>or these definitions such as superficial, egotistical, maybe of a

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<v Speaker 2>gut feeling that they're untrustworthy, and who seem to conceal

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<v Speaker 2>some sort of anti social tendencies. But what happens when

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<v Speaker 2>someone can't keep a lid on the darker side of

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<v Speaker 2>this psychopathic spectrum? We are introduced to John Wayne Gacy.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you know anything about John Wayne Gacy? Ben before

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<v Speaker 2>we before you watched this episode.

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<v Speaker 1>So I've heard the name, And if someone asked, have

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<v Speaker 1>you ever heard of John Wayne Gacy and who is he?

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<v Speaker 1>I'd be able to say, I've heard the name. Is

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<v Speaker 1>a serial killer. That is literally all I know. That's

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<v Speaker 1>all you know. I don't know who he killed. Or

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<v Speaker 1>like the victims, Like what what I'm trying to say,

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<v Speaker 1>because obviously serial killers kill a type of people, women, men, children,

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<v Speaker 1>whatever it is, I couldn't tell you.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't like to use word famous when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to serial killers because I think that feeds into

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<v Speaker 2>a negative connotation about them being celebritized or whatever. But

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<v Speaker 2>I will say that they do become infamous because of

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<v Speaker 2>what they what kind of mark they left on society. So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you understand, you know who the name John Wyn Gacy is.

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<v Speaker 2>Outside of the fact that he's a known serial killer.

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<v Speaker 2>That's about all you know.

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't tell you what decade he willson. I would

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<v Speaker 1>believe it's the seventies or the eighties. Okay, buck up, obvious,

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<v Speaker 1>obviously it's before the because this is this. But if

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<v Speaker 1>someone asked me, like, what decade did he kill him?

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<v Speaker 1>Able to tell?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, So serial killer John Wayne Gacy, who is

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<v Speaker 2>most notably known for rape, torture and murder of at

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<v Speaker 2>least thirty three young men and boys between nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 2>two and nineteen seventy eight.

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<v Speaker 1>See, if someone asked me, I would have obviously usually

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<v Speaker 1>men kill women. Yeah, I would have guessed. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>would have guessed we're going to get into it. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So, and this all took place in Norwood Park Township,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a suburb just outside of Chicago, Illinois. He

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<v Speaker 2>became Illinois, not Illinois, sorry, even though there's an S

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<v Speaker 2>on the end of Illinois. He became known as Illinois.

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<v Speaker 2>He became known as the quote killer clown. Did you

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<v Speaker 2>know that about him?

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<v Speaker 1>No? No, okay, I mean, obviously in this episode they

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<v Speaker 1>said he was a clown. Didn't know that, but yeah, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Due to his public performances as a clown prior to

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<v Speaker 2>the discovery of his crimes, John WAYN. Gacy committed all

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<v Speaker 2>of his known murders inside of his ranch style house. Typically,

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<v Speaker 2>he would lure the victims to his home and dupe

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<v Speaker 2>them into putting on a pair of handcuffs in the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of world of make believe. He was pretending with

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<v Speaker 2>these boys of demonstrating a magic trick, and then he

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<v Speaker 2>would proceed to rape, torture, and bind like just a

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<v Speaker 2>total fear before killing these victims by either exphyxiation or

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<v Speaker 2>strangulation with a Girat twenty six victims were buried within

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<v Speaker 2>the crawl space of his own personal home that he

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<v Speaker 2>lived in.

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<v Speaker 1>M hmm, that's disturbing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, that's where the term diabolical might ring a bell.

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<v Speaker 2>John wayn Geese. See, so I'm gonna let's rewind a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit. We're going to start back at the beginning.

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<v Speaker 2>So he was born in Chicago, Illinois, March seventeenth, nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>forty two, the second of three children and the only

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<v Speaker 2>son of a father that was an auto repair mechanic

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<v Speaker 2>and a World War One veteran, and his mother was,

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<v Speaker 2>according to I believe a census, a homemaker. Gaysey was

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<v Speaker 2>known to have a close relationship with his mother and

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<v Speaker 2>two sisters, but had a difficult relationship with his father,

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<v Speaker 2>who was known to be an alcoholic and had a

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<v Speaker 2>reputation for being verbally and physically abusive to all members

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<v Speaker 2>of the family, according to Gacy. Now, I will say

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of the information we have about John Wayne

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<v Speaker 2>Gacy comes from his own accounts, so take that with

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<v Speaker 2>a grain of salt. From my understanding, he was one

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<v Speaker 2>of the people that participated in the FBI's building of

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<v Speaker 2>the behavior on analysis unit that they have and the

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<v Speaker 2>ability to what's the word I'm looking for when they

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<v Speaker 2>build a profile of a killer or a profile of

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<v Speaker 2>a criminal. He was one of the foundations of that.

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<v Speaker 2>From my understanding, he gave a lot of interviews and

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<v Speaker 2>worked closely with the FBI, but that's probably because he

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<v Speaker 2>was a narcissist and he liked talking about himself. So

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<v Speaker 2>one of his earliest childhood memories was of his father

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<v Speaker 2>beating him around the age of four for accidentally disarranging

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<v Speaker 2>a car engine components. His mother tried to shield her

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<v Speaker 2>son from the father's abuse, which resulted in accusations that

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<v Speaker 2>John was a sissy and a mama's boy who would

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<v Speaker 2>probably and I use these terms because these are direct

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<v Speaker 2>quotes from this, but I do understand that these terms

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<v Speaker 2>that I'm going to say, some of them might be

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<v Speaker 2>offensive to people. That is not my intent. It is

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<v Speaker 2>to show what he is telling us happen. So quote

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<v Speaker 2>probably grew up to be queer end quote. Gaysey also

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<v Speaker 2>claimed that he was molested by a family member starting

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<v Speaker 2>at an early agent and went on through most of

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<v Speaker 2>his childhood. In early adult life, Gacy actually moved out

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<v Speaker 2>of his house to Las Vegas. And I didn't write

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<v Speaker 2>this down, but it seemed like after a pretty tumultuous

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<v Speaker 2>argument with his father in a long term battle. His

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<v Speaker 2>dad purchased him a vehicle or something but put it

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<v Speaker 2>in his name, and John was paying his father back,

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<v Speaker 2>but he used it as control and one day he

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<v Speaker 2>just finally had enough for my understanding and he moved

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<v Speaker 2>out to Las Vegas. During this time, he worked for

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<v Speaker 2>an ambulance service before he was actually transferred to a

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<v Speaker 2>before it was transferred to the Palm Mortuary Company, where

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<v Speaker 2>he worked as a mortuary attendant for about three months.

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<v Speaker 2>During that time, he observed embalming and occasionally served as

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<v Speaker 2>a pallbearer. He claimed that after one evening he had

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<v Speaker 2>an incident take place that scared him. He said that

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<v Speaker 2>he was alone at the mortuary and he climbed into

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<v Speaker 2>the coffin of a male teenage boyhood passed away, and

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<v Speaker 2>spent the evening embracing and caressing the body. Something about

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<v Speaker 2>this incident, at least according to him, scared him enough

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<v Speaker 2>that he moved back to Illinois and enrolled in the

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<v Speaker 2>Northwest Business College. He graduated in nineteen sixty three and

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<v Speaker 2>took a manager's training position in the Noonbush Shoe Company,

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<v Speaker 2>and by nineteen eighty four he was promoted to department

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<v Speaker 2>manager and became engaged to a woman named Marlon or

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<v Speaker 2>Maryland sorry, she was a coworker. So I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>interesting that we see waves of this of these times

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<v Speaker 2>in John Wayne Gacy's life, and you see it throughout

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<v Speaker 2>people that have watched or learned things about other infamous

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<v Speaker 2>serial killers, where they have these times where they try

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of almost put this mask on to pretend

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<v Speaker 2>to be normal, and it just doesn't ever seem to

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<v Speaker 2>last that long.

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<v Speaker 1>But the whole point of.

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<v Speaker 2>This conversation is that Gaysey was well beloved within his community,

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<v Speaker 2>even though early on he had some major red flags.

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<v Speaker 2>He went on to join the local chapter of the

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<v Speaker 2>jc's I honestly don't know what that is. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's like a moose lodge sort of thing. Do you

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<v Speaker 2>have any idea what that is? No?

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<v Speaker 1>No, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>They seem to do a lot of like charity work

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<v Speaker 2>and different things for whatever community.

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<v Speaker 1>What's a moose lodge. I think a moose lodge is

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<v Speaker 1>because whatever it is, I kind of want to be

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<v Speaker 1>a part of it.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think I have a moose lodge around here.

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<v Speaker 2>But it was like the Chamber of where there's all

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<v Speaker 2>of these like little sort of like networking groups you

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<v Speaker 2>can pay a small fee to be a part of,

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<v Speaker 2>and you go and you have these meetings, and you

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<v Speaker 2>do charity work, and you do all these different things.

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<v Speaker 2>But you also co mingle with these other business owners

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<v Speaker 2>or different members of the community to also kind of

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<v Speaker 2>grow your businesses within that. So he joined the jc's

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<v Speaker 2>and to whom he frequently devoted a lot of time

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<v Speaker 2>in the just j C. So it's jay C E

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<v Speaker 2>E S j c's And it.

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<v Speaker 1>Was like a group. Yeah, I have a computer, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna you're gonna look it up. I'm gonna payogle.

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<v Speaker 2>So he devoted a lot of time and effort to

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<v Speaker 2>community fundraising projects, and by nineteen sixty five, Gasey had

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<v Speaker 2>raised Risen to the position of vice president of the

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<v Speaker 2>Springfold the Springfield Chapter and was actually named the third

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<v Speaker 2>most outstanding member in all of Illinois. So him and

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<v Speaker 2>his wife went on to marry in September of nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>sixty four, and at this time his father in law

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<v Speaker 2>purchased three KFCs in.

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<v Speaker 1>Waterloo, Iowa.

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<v Speaker 2>The couple actually relocated so that Gaysey could manage the restaurants,

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<v Speaker 2>and they moved into her childhood home.

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<v Speaker 1>It is a nonprofit civic organization for young professionals, entrepreneurs,

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<v Speaker 1>and active citizens ages eighteen to forty. Man, they discriminate,

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<v Speaker 1>so there you go. So, yeah, the same thing.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a thousand different brands of these everywhere you go.

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<v Speaker 1>So they moved in to.

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<v Speaker 2>His wife's former home, and he was offered a really

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<v Speaker 2>lucrative salary. At one point he would receive fifteen thousand

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<v Speaker 2>per year, which is equivalent to about one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>fifty six thousand dollars a year in a salary in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty six, which means inflation has really gotten out

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<v Speaker 2>of control of that. What yu is this nineteen sixty four?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Plus he would actually also bring in a share

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<v Speaker 2>of the restaurant's profits. So this man and I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if he if they purchased there, I couldn't find

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<v Speaker 2>this information. It seems like they gave him a house

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<v Speaker 2>and a job and a cush salary. This man is

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<v Speaker 2>potentially set up for like the rest of his life.

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<v Speaker 2>He didn't purchase the KFCs and KFCs at this time, dude,

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<v Speaker 2>that was peak KFCs.

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<v Speaker 1>So sorry, am I a distract for just a second.

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<v Speaker 1>That's fine. This story is very dark. So if you've

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00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:59.920
<v Speaker 1>got a fun, lighthearted if anyone's ever interested, go listen

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<v Speaker 1>to Micro, the guy that does dirty jobs. He has

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<v Speaker 1>a podcast and it's called The Way I Heard It.

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<v Speaker 1>It's different now, but when he started it, they're literally

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<v Speaker 1>six to ten minutes long, and he tells a story

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<v Speaker 1>of a something in history, but you don't know what

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00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:27.640
<v Speaker 1>it is until the end, and he tells you, like

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00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:32.160
<v Speaker 1>what who it was? A person? He tells the story

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<v Speaker 1>of Colonel Sanders and his KFC. It's awesome. I won't

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<v Speaker 1>spoil it for you. It's great. I don't know it's

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<v Speaker 1>I think the episode is the Man with a Secret

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<v Speaker 1>or something like that. It is great. Go find it,

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00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:55.799
<v Speaker 1>go listen to it, and you'll be like, holy smokes.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's where KFC came from. It's awesome. I think

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<v Speaker 1>like our early childhood. I think I remember the biscuits

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<v Speaker 1>were amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>I think by the time we were like sixteen plus

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<v Speaker 2>where no one was like, let's go to KFC.

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<v Speaker 1>But I remember I was like a younger kid.

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<v Speaker 2>If your mom brought home the bucket of KFC, it

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<v Speaker 2>was good.

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<v Speaker 1>It was going to be a good day. I agree,

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<v Speaker 1>and but I like, I grew up with seven kids.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know how many times I had KFC before

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<v Speaker 1>I was ten? Like once? I think my so.

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<v Speaker 2>My parents both like worked part mostly on and off.

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<v Speaker 2>They both worked most of my childhood. Once I was

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<v Speaker 2>old enough to stay them, and I remember KFC happened,

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<v Speaker 2>and probably not every week, but maybe once a month

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<v Speaker 2>or so, the bucket of KFC coming home with my mom,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was going to be a good.

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<v Speaker 1>Day, It was a good night. I was sorry I

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<v Speaker 1>distracted you. It was the good old days of KFC.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not the good old days of good food. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>My whole point is is that by his early adulthood

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<v Speaker 2>he has a house, a career, and from my understanding,

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Even graduate high school. This is something that.

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<v Speaker 2>Today people would love to have every opportunity. And if

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<v Speaker 2>John wynng Gacy, which we will go to find out

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<v Speaker 2>later he is officially diagnosed with psychopathic tendencies and different things,

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<v Speaker 2>he could have chosen to channel those in a different direction,

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<v Speaker 2>but unfortunately he doesn't. So during the same time him

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<v Speaker 2>and his wife would go on to have two children.

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<v Speaker 2>He actually from what according to him, made amends with

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<v Speaker 2>his father and used the word quote perfect when talking

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<v Speaker 2>about this period.

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<v Speaker 1>Of his life.

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<v Speaker 2>However, his tendencies started to lean towards grooming and sexual

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<v Speaker 2>advances towards teenage boys, underage boys.

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<v Speaker 1>From my understanding.

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<v Speaker 2>In one report that during the time he owned all

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<v Speaker 2>these KFCs or was running them, he made a quote

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<v Speaker 2>clubhouse in the basement of the house he was living

383
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<v Speaker 2>in that like everyone was invited to come to, but

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<v Speaker 2>really only like the young boys working at KFC were

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<v Speaker 2>invited to come to, and he provided them alcohol and

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<v Speaker 2>then proceeded to use that opportunity to you know, take

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<v Speaker 2>advantage of these boys. So May tenth, nineteen sixty eight,

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<v Speaker 2>Casey's actually indicted on a sodomy charge, which is no joke,

389
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Like that's not a small charge. November seventh, he pled

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<v Speaker 2>s guilty. He in nineteen sixty eight, he pleads guilty

391
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<v Speaker 2>to one kind asodomy and is sentenced to ten years

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<v Speaker 2>in prison. That same day, his wife files for divorce. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so now we start to see.

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<v Speaker 1>The things fall apart.

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<v Speaker 2>Things are falling apart, and be ready to get mad

396
00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:08.319
<v Speaker 2>because we're gonna find out. I'm gonna tell you here

397
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<v Speaker 2>in a minute, how long he actually served, because the

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<v Speaker 2>question is is, just like we talked about what last week,

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00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:15.799
<v Speaker 2>why are some of these.

400
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:17.359
<v Speaker 1>People's sentenced for so long?

401
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:20.559
<v Speaker 2>And then the parole board just like or sentenced to

402
00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:24.400
<v Speaker 2>life or death and then the parole board decides to

403
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:25.039
<v Speaker 2>let them out.

404
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:27.799
<v Speaker 1>I forgot about that. Yeah, was terrible. That was terrible.

405
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:31.799
<v Speaker 2>So during his incarceration, of course, the mask of being

406
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:34.920
<v Speaker 2>this like amazing charming, we see the second side of

407
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:40.039
<v Speaker 2>the psychopath, right, the ability to trick diabolic, diabolical side,

408
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:43.759
<v Speaker 2>right where he rapidly acquires a reputation as a quote

409
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:47.799
<v Speaker 2>model prisoner and within months of the arrival. And from

410
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:49.799
<v Speaker 2>my understanding, this is not easy to do within the

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00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:52.720
<v Speaker 2>walls of prison. And I will say most of my

412
00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:55.519
<v Speaker 2>knowledge on prison comes from the show Orange just the

413
00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:58.240
<v Speaker 2>New Black, And I understand that that is not correct.

414
00:25:58.680 --> 00:25:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that's real life?

415
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:03.440
<v Speaker 2>To no, but I do love that show. He is

416
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:06.200
<v Speaker 2>risen to the position of head cook. And based on

417
00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:08.720
<v Speaker 2>my knowledge of the show Orange is the new Back,

418
00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:13.200
<v Speaker 2>head Cook is like where it's at. That's like Kingpin,

419
00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:16.160
<v Speaker 2>That's that is the that's what everyone wants.

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00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:19.160
<v Speaker 1>Everybody is trying to come in and within a few

421
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:23.720
<v Speaker 1>months to have that position, it's not easy to do.

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00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:28.920
<v Speaker 2>He also, of course, because why not there is a

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<v Speaker 2>JC chapter within the prison, because who doesn't need marketing

424
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:40.440
<v Speaker 2>and shared like mentorship then men inside prison, and during

425
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:44.960
<v Speaker 2>his incarceration he rows the membership from fifty to six

426
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:48.880
<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty men. So we're sharreting. By this time,

427
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:51.480
<v Speaker 2>we know he has a charming side.

428
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:55.079
<v Speaker 1>Gaysey, he has a charming personality.

429
00:26:55.160 --> 00:27:02.160
<v Speaker 2>His charming personality, so Gaycy secures an increase in the

430
00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:05.839
<v Speaker 2>inmates daily in their daily pay in the prison mess

431
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:10.559
<v Speaker 2>hall and supervises several projects improving conditions for the inmate.

432
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:15.799
<v Speaker 2>He is in charge of getting the funding and installation

433
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:19.759
<v Speaker 2>of a miniature golf course within prison and was presented

434
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:24.359
<v Speaker 2>with a Distinguished Service Award for his efforts within the

435
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:28.720
<v Speaker 2>inmate JC chapter. And I would like to point out

436
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:33.200
<v Speaker 2>he's not just charming the inmates, he's charming the leadership

437
00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:37.119
<v Speaker 2>within the prison. The inmates, like everyone is termed by

438
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.160
<v Speaker 2>this guy. After only serving eighteen months, this man is

439
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.160
<v Speaker 2>granted her role from a ten year sentence.

440
00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:50.440
<v Speaker 1>It is actually shocking back then because in the sixties

441
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:55.079
<v Speaker 1>and seventies I could be wrong, but it seemed like

442
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:57.680
<v Speaker 1>people serve more of their sentence.

443
00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:01.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, man, we like to think, I think

444
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:03.559
<v Speaker 2>as people have never been involved in that side of

445
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Like I've never been to prison, I've ever been that

446
00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:09.839
<v Speaker 2>people are actually serving a majority of their sentence.

447
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:12.720
<v Speaker 1>But I don't know, like nowadays, like a lot of

448
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:14.359
<v Speaker 1>times if it's not murder.

449
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.640
<v Speaker 2>But here's the best part. He was granted parole. His

450
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:21.359
<v Speaker 2>probation was only twelve months, so it wasn't even like

451
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:23.000
<v Speaker 2>he was at least on probation for the.

452
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:28.279
<v Speaker 1>Rest because usually your parole, like your probation is the

453
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:30.720
<v Speaker 1>length of your sentence. Yep.

454
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:33.039
<v Speaker 2>So he was only granted a year of probation.

455
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:35.480
<v Speaker 1>So in the end, he really only did two and

456
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:39.279
<v Speaker 1>a half years of being monitored by the system.

457
00:28:39.400 --> 00:28:39.559
<v Speaker 2>Yep.

458
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:40.799
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

459
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:44.880
<v Speaker 2>So he returns to Chicago, moves in with his mother,

460
00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:46.519
<v Speaker 2>and was it within months?

461
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:47.160
<v Speaker 1>You guys.

462
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:52.680
<v Speaker 2>While on probation, Gasey is charged two separate times for

463
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.920
<v Speaker 2>sexually assaulting a teenage boy. Each case is dismissed for us.

464
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:00.440
<v Speaker 1>So he broke his probation. Yeah, but we're back to

465
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:01.680
<v Speaker 1>prison and finished his since.

466
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:06.160
<v Speaker 2>But for some unknown reason, the Iowa Board of Parole

467
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:11.960
<v Speaker 2>never was informed about these incidents because both charges ended

468
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:15.079
<v Speaker 2>up being dismissed. And I will say it seems like

469
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:17.720
<v Speaker 2>they were dismissed because these were young boys that were

470
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:22.559
<v Speaker 2>sexually assaulted by a man. And I even to this day,

471
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:28.319
<v Speaker 2>victims coming forward is hard. I can't imagine when you

472
00:29:28.359 --> 00:29:30.920
<v Speaker 2>are dealing with that as a young boy having to

473
00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:33.960
<v Speaker 2>come forward about it. Not that any victim is harder

474
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.519
<v Speaker 2>than the other to come forward, however, it is a

475
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:42.519
<v Speaker 2>very underreported crime. And so it seems like for a

476
00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:48.200
<v Speaker 2>handful of reasons within that sphere, the cases were dropped

477
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:52.319
<v Speaker 2>so and the par board was never informed about these

478
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:54.440
<v Speaker 2>and this seems to kind of be the pattern that

479
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:57.079
<v Speaker 2>Gacy would live. He would gain the trust of people

480
00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:00.240
<v Speaker 2>around him, becoming well liked and loved by members of

481
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:04.440
<v Speaker 2>his community. He hosted annual summer parties. These events were

482
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:08.319
<v Speaker 2>attended by up to four hundred people, including neighbors, politicians,

483
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:13.559
<v Speaker 2>business associates. He regularly performed at fundraising events and parades.

484
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:17.359
<v Speaker 2>In addition to volunteering at a local children's hospital as

485
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:22.279
<v Speaker 2>Pogo the Clown, Gasey spent time inside the Democratic Party.

486
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Within politics, he served as the Norwood Park Township street

487
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:35.519
<v Speaker 2>light Committee, subsequently earning him this Captain's title, and in

488
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:40.160
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy five, he's appointed the director of Chicago's annual

489
00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Polish Constitutional Day Parade. Through his work with the parade,

490
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:49.359
<v Speaker 2>which he would supervise until nineteen seventy eight. This is

491
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:53.559
<v Speaker 2>where we see Gasey met and is pictured with the

492
00:30:53.680 --> 00:31:00.920
<v Speaker 2>First Lady, Rosalind Carter, wearing a quote s pin indicating

493
00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:04.519
<v Speaker 2>a person gave a person that was given special clearance

494
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:08.680
<v Speaker 2>to spend time around the First Lady. The event later

495
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:16.440
<v Speaker 2>became uh in the event later an ambassador to like, well, yeah,

496
00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:19.279
<v Speaker 2>given special clearance that was given to him by the

497
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:23.640
<v Speaker 2>ambassador of the United States Secret Service. This entire time,

498
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:26.279
<v Speaker 2>you guys that he's doing all these things within the community,

499
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:30.119
<v Speaker 2>hosting parties and being part of these committees and meeting

500
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:37.000
<v Speaker 2>the First Lady, he's actively sexually assaulting and murdering young

501
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.200
<v Speaker 2>men within the same community. So Caasey's finally brought to

502
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:45.119
<v Speaker 2>trial in February sixth, nineteen eighty and charged with thirty

503
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:56.319
<v Speaker 2>three murders. Thirty three murders. That's a lot of murders.

504
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, so how did they get to them?

505
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:04.160
<v Speaker 2>I know, I love that you are intrigued by that.

506
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:06.440
<v Speaker 2>I actually I will tell you, guys, I have a

507
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:08.279
<v Speaker 2>couple pages of notes. I'm trying to give you a

508
00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:12.559
<v Speaker 2>very brief summary in case anyone listening, like Ben, doesn't

509
00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:15.680
<v Speaker 2>know the history of John Wayne Gacy. I left a

510
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:16.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of stuff out.

511
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:19.960
<v Speaker 1>It's okay, okay, anyone that's listening, it's okay. If you

512
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:23.319
<v Speaker 1>don't I you can be on my side. Yes, I

513
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:24.960
<v Speaker 1>left a lot of stuff out. I'm just kind of

514
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:25.519
<v Speaker 1>giving you the.

515
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:30.720
<v Speaker 2>Cliff notes version of the both sides of him. So

516
00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:32.880
<v Speaker 2>the jury went on to deliverate only for an hour

517
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:36.440
<v Speaker 2>and fifty minutes, which I'm sure even that they probably

518
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.319
<v Speaker 2>figured it out within a few minutes. And then we're like,

519
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:41.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we we have to give it a little.

520
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:43.240
<v Speaker 1>While eight lunch. That's probably what they're doing, Like, you

521
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:45.799
<v Speaker 1>know what, let's just eat some lunch. So it looks

522
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:50.240
<v Speaker 1>like we talked about this. Yeah. And then well, because

523
00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:52.079
<v Speaker 1>it was probably done in like two minutes.

524
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:55.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because we're going to find out all of the

525
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:57.359
<v Speaker 2>bodies are buried in his house.

526
00:32:57.680 --> 00:32:59.759
<v Speaker 1>That's what I'm saying. They probably as they walked in

527
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:02.920
<v Speaker 1>the door of the deliberation room, they're like, yeah, He's

528
00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:04.279
<v Speaker 1>technically not all bodies.

529
00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:05.839
<v Speaker 2>There's a few bodies that were found in a river

530
00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:08.440
<v Speaker 2>within a few miles.

531
00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:08.599
<v Speaker 1>Of his home.

532
00:33:08.599 --> 00:33:13.079
<v Speaker 2>But so Gaysey's actually found guilty of thirty three charges

533
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.720
<v Speaker 2>of murder and also found guilty of sexually assault and

534
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:20.359
<v Speaker 2>taking indecent liberties with a child. So, on the morning

535
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:23.880
<v Speaker 2>of May ninth, nineteen ninety four, Gaysey is transferred to

536
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:29.400
<v Speaker 2>Statesville Correction Center to be executed. That afternoon, he was

537
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:33.799
<v Speaker 2>allowed a private picnic on the grounds with his family,

538
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:39.000
<v Speaker 2>and I have this information for you. For his last meal, Benjamin,

539
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:46.480
<v Speaker 2>this is what Gaysey ordered. A bucket of KFC French fries,

540
00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:54.200
<v Speaker 2>a dozen fried shrimp, a basket of fresh strawberries, and

541
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:54.920
<v Speaker 2>a diet coke.

542
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:58.920
<v Speaker 1>I hate that he asked for a diet coke. I

543
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:03.400
<v Speaker 1>knew you would when I heard that, Like KFC. Huh.

544
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:09.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's actually a very interesting there's a TikTok account

545
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:13.880
<v Speaker 2>or maybe it's in his Instagram account who like talks

546
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:17.599
<v Speaker 2>about inmates of all kinds death row inmates of their

547
00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:19.800
<v Speaker 2>last meals and then like tries to eat them and

548
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:23.039
<v Speaker 2>a lot of them are really gross. But yeah, KFC

549
00:34:24.039 --> 00:34:28.079
<v Speaker 2>French fries, a dozen fried shrimps. We would be first drubber,

550
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:29.639
<v Speaker 2>he's got to be healthy, I guess at some point,

551
00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:34.840
<v Speaker 2>and then diet coke. So that is a story of

552
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:38.920
<v Speaker 2>John Wayne Gacy. Can you see from that kind of

553
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:42.639
<v Speaker 2>recount of that how he became so infamous because of

554
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:43.440
<v Speaker 2>what he did?

555
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:47.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think anyone that kills thirty three people, yeah,

556
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:47.960
<v Speaker 1>it's a lot of people.

557
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:51.800
<v Speaker 2>But also on top of that, the scary part is

558
00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:55.800
<v Speaker 2>is that this man like is throwing block parties and

559
00:34:55.960 --> 00:35:00.440
<v Speaker 2>is photographed with the first lady. That's not something that

560
00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:04.320
<v Speaker 2>everybody gets like access to. And he also at one

561
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:07.239
<v Speaker 2>point like worked in a construction company and like offered

562
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:10.400
<v Speaker 2>and volunteered to help people that were like not able

563
00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:11.400
<v Speaker 2>to pay their bills or.

564
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Do different things.

565
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Like there was this other side of him that was

566
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:21.079
<v Speaker 2>like a really good person. But was that actually john

567
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:24.719
<v Speaker 2>Wyn Gacy or was that John Wyn Gacy pretending to

568
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:27.760
<v Speaker 2>be what he thought the world wanted to see so

569
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:31.320
<v Speaker 2>that he could do what he wanted to do. And

570
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:35.159
<v Speaker 2>with his childhood history, was this man born a psychopath

571
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:37.599
<v Speaker 2>or based on some of the things he went through

572
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:41.920
<v Speaker 2>in his childhood? Was this created or was it a

573
00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:42.960
<v Speaker 2>combination of both?

574
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:47.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Do you have any thoughts. I mean,

575
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:49.960
<v Speaker 1>obviously I'm not a psychologist.

576
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:54.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't think anyone is claiming that we.

577
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:58.599
<v Speaker 1>Were a sociologist.

578
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:03.159
<v Speaker 2>Or whatever, psychiatrist or any of those things, any of

579
00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:04.400
<v Speaker 2>the phs.

580
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Here's one thing, and this is me giving a little

581
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:18.119
<v Speaker 1>bit of credence to unsolved mysteries. Okay, in unsolved mysteries,

582
00:36:18.519 --> 00:36:24.760
<v Speaker 1>I have now heard of many of people's childhoods. We

583
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:29.159
<v Speaker 1>get a lot of lost loves. Some of them are

584
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:39.440
<v Speaker 1>pretty horrific, and they're amazing people. So I don't know

585
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:43.280
<v Speaker 1>where I'm going. All I'm saying is the thought that

586
00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:47.840
<v Speaker 1>because your childhood was terrible, that then makes you a

587
00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:53.719
<v Speaker 1>terrible person. I think is debunked in a way, because

588
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:57.320
<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of people in the world who

589
00:36:57.400 --> 00:37:02.400
<v Speaker 1>grow up pretty terrible and go on to become amazing people.

590
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:05.199
<v Speaker 1>And maybe there was something in there along the way

591
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:08.559
<v Speaker 1>that helped shape them. But I just don't think that.

592
00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:12.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. There are kids that grow up in

593
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:17.800
<v Speaker 1>orphanages and are never loved till they're eighteen, and then

594
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:20.280
<v Speaker 1>they go out and they find someone and they love

595
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:23.000
<v Speaker 1>and they start a family and they become good people.

596
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:27.119
<v Speaker 1>So can we say that, Well, there's a lot of

597
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:33.239
<v Speaker 1>kids that grow up and are abused physically and sexually

598
00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:36.559
<v Speaker 1>and then go on and be pillars of society. Take

599
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:42.280
<v Speaker 1>take the girl that you told by her father who

600
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:48.320
<v Speaker 1>was a police officer in Chicago, and she's she became

601
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:52.159
<v Speaker 1>an amazing person and a victim, I mean, a supporter

602
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:57.840
<v Speaker 1>of victims. So I guess I'm sure can you say

603
00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:02.119
<v Speaker 1>that that contributed to it absolutely? But also there is

604
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:04.400
<v Speaker 1>the flip side of that. People then have that and

605
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:07.960
<v Speaker 1>then go on and they that. So I don't know,

606
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Like that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying one way

607
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:13.679
<v Speaker 1>or another. I'm just saying you can make the argument

608
00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:14.320
<v Speaker 1>both ways.

609
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:17.960
<v Speaker 2>I think that's why it's such a fascinating conversation, and

610
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.239
<v Speaker 2>I think to this day why a lot of people

611
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:26.320
<v Speaker 2>in this field of study are trying to I don't

612
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:28.679
<v Speaker 2>think anyone thinks and I could be wrong. I'm sure

613
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:31.760
<v Speaker 2>there are people out there with PhDs that think it

614
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:36.480
<v Speaker 2>is solely one or solely the other. I think most

615
00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:41.440
<v Speaker 2>of the consensus is is that it is innately a

616
00:38:41.480 --> 00:38:45.719
<v Speaker 2>combination of both born with an underlying personality disorder and

617
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:49.079
<v Speaker 2>then compound it with some sort of childhood trauma that

618
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.199
<v Speaker 2>you then go on to become a terrible person, and

619
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.719
<v Speaker 2>instead of maybe becoming the better person, you let the

620
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:58.440
<v Speaker 2>other side of you. I don't know it is you

621
00:38:58.480 --> 00:38:59.559
<v Speaker 2>and I are both Yeah.

622
00:38:59.320 --> 00:38:59.719
<v Speaker 1>You're right.

623
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.480
<v Speaker 2>I actually started going back to school at one point

624
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:06.199
<v Speaker 2>where I was going to learn about this field of

625
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:08.679
<v Speaker 2>study in the world of psychology and stuff like that,

626
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:13.800
<v Speaker 2>because I find it fascinating. But this is why I

627
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.239
<v Speaker 2>found this episode so fascinating, because I don't think that

628
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:20.440
<v Speaker 2>there is a correct answer for this, And I think

629
00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:23.039
<v Speaker 2>you bring up a very good point. Why is it

630
00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:25.400
<v Speaker 2>that some people choose to go on to either live

631
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:27.880
<v Speaker 2>just a normal lives or b go on to live

632
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:29.840
<v Speaker 2>extraordinary lives.

633
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:32.599
<v Speaker 1>They go on to do good and.

634
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:37.719
<v Speaker 2>Actually pursue a path to try to even though that

635
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:40.639
<v Speaker 2>childhood was never handed to them, to go on to

636
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:43.119
<v Speaker 2>create that childhood for other people.

637
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:46.800
<v Speaker 1>I just I think a lot of times people are

638
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:54.199
<v Speaker 1>trying to find the cause to then be able to

639
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:58.159
<v Speaker 1>diagnose it before, and it just goes to show that

640
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:02.119
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that you can say if obviously, I

641
00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:05.880
<v Speaker 1>think we definitely know this in twenty twenty six, if

642
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:10.079
<v Speaker 1>this and this happens, this is what you're going to

643
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:14.760
<v Speaker 1>grow up to be. It just goes to show that.

644
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.440
<v Speaker 1>And there's a lot of I'm sure there's people that

645
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:23.360
<v Speaker 1>grow up with great childhoods that then still go on

646
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.800
<v Speaker 1>to do terrible things. So there is no list of

647
00:40:27.639 --> 00:40:32.000
<v Speaker 1>if these things happen or these events. All you can

648
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:34.800
<v Speaker 1>really do is look at people after they've done all

649
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:38.760
<v Speaker 1>these terrible things and say, I think this stuff possibly

650
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:43.719
<v Speaker 1>contributed to it. But you can't say that that stuff

651
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:48.960
<v Speaker 1>always contributes to it, because lots of people have that

652
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:51.320
<v Speaker 1>and go on and do good things. And there's a

653
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:55.360
<v Speaker 1>lot of people that grow up with perfectly fine lives

654
00:40:57.159 --> 00:41:00.840
<v Speaker 1>and then still turn out to be terrible people.

655
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:05.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's actually and I spoke with I think this

656
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:07.960
<v Speaker 2>lady a little bit because at one point, I don't know,

657
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:10.039
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember the name of the top of my head.

658
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:14.400
<v Speaker 1>She is she has a PhD in this, and she is.

659
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:19.280
<v Speaker 2>Trying her whole goal and she wrote a book about it,

660
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.800
<v Speaker 2>and all of this stuff is trying to help.

661
00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Psychiatrists and stuff.

662
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:30.039
<v Speaker 2>Is there early warning signs that we can help kids

663
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:35.039
<v Speaker 2>that might be displaying signs of going down path a

664
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:38.199
<v Speaker 2>where we can give them the therapy and tools that

665
00:41:38.199 --> 00:41:42.199
<v Speaker 2>they need so that we can make them into what

666
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:47.159
<v Speaker 2>you would call a more successful psychopath, that they've got

667
00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:51.119
<v Speaker 2>the ability to channel that sort of desire to succeed

668
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:55.519
<v Speaker 2>in energy to be backstabbing in business and cut through

669
00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:59.159
<v Speaker 2>in the business, in the courtroom as a lawyer, or

670
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:02.400
<v Speaker 2>whatever it is is. And I wish I could remember,

671
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:04.920
<v Speaker 2>because I listened to several of she was a guest

672
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:08.559
<v Speaker 2>on several podcasts. She had some really amazing insight on stuff.

673
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:12.239
<v Speaker 2>And that's a hard conversation to have, but I don't

674
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:16.199
<v Speaker 2>I find it fascinating. So the other case study that

675
00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:20.000
<v Speaker 2>unsold because this is all unsolved mysteries, tells us about

676
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:23.119
<v Speaker 2>John Wayne Gacy, and then they're gonna tell us about.

677
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:26.000
<v Speaker 1>They didn't tell us that much about Joan.

678
00:42:26.119 --> 00:42:28.920
<v Speaker 2>I know, I kind of went overboard on this, but

679
00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:30.920
<v Speaker 2>you know whatever, it's my podcast.

680
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:32.519
<v Speaker 1>I can do whatever I want.

681
00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:36.199
<v Speaker 2>The next person that they tell us about, and then

682
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Ben's gonna tell us about two different people that maybe

683
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:45.559
<v Speaker 2>took their psychopathic behavior in a very different direction, but

684
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:47.800
<v Speaker 2>still not a good one. The next one I tell

685
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:51.440
<v Speaker 2>you about is a name infamous too many people within

686
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:54.719
<v Speaker 2>the world of true crime, Ted Bundy. Did you know

687
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:56.440
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more about Ted Bundy than you did,

688
00:42:56.480 --> 00:42:57.320
<v Speaker 2>John Wayne Gacy.

689
00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:59.760
<v Speaker 1>I think we've all heard about Tim Bundy. I definitely

690
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:02.679
<v Speaker 1>someone asked me, have erit Timmant? Yes, he's a serial killer.

691
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:15.519
<v Speaker 1>He killed women, maybe prostitutes, college students. All I know

692
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:19.800
<v Speaker 1>about Ted Bundy it was the seventies and eighties, and

693
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:23.679
<v Speaker 1>he was very charming and good looking. Yes, that's the

694
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:26.840
<v Speaker 1>extent of my knowledge, attendman, But I would know for

695
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:29.239
<v Speaker 1>a fact he was a serial killer.

696
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:32.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, John Wyn Gacy was not a good looking guy.

697
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:35.599
<v Speaker 2>He was a schlub of a man, soggy, mashed potatoes

698
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:40.280
<v Speaker 2>looking guy, the band aid that washes the still life.

699
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:47.679
<v Speaker 1>Was he executed? Yes? I thought he died because he

700
00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:49.320
<v Speaker 1>was in prison for a long time.

701
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:55.800
<v Speaker 2>About the guy from California, Charles Manson, Charles Manson, is.

702
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:58.480
<v Speaker 1>I do know more about Charles wins I read the book.

703
00:43:58.599 --> 00:44:01.679
<v Speaker 1>I read Helter Skelter. Sure you should be proud of

704
00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:03.280
<v Speaker 1>me for that. I am proud of you for that.

705
00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:07.199
<v Speaker 1>You know where I finished Helter Skelter. Tell me at

706
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:13.519
<v Speaker 1>Jerry Duty that's funny. Well, I did, because I was

707
00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:21.280
<v Speaker 1>reading it, I was in it and here at least

708
00:44:21.320 --> 00:44:25.320
<v Speaker 1>at that time. This was years ago. This was probably

709
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:25.960
<v Speaker 1>ten years ago.

710
00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:28.039
<v Speaker 2>When I got We were weirding it at the same time.

711
00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:30.159
<v Speaker 2>We were living in our old house, so it was when.

712
00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:32.719
<v Speaker 1>Our kids were We had jury duty three times now,

713
00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:35.559
<v Speaker 1>but this was the second time I had jury duty.

714
00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:38.760
<v Speaker 1>And you all like, there's a big room and you

715
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:42.400
<v Speaker 1>all get called there, and then as the day goes on,

716
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:44.760
<v Speaker 1>they call your number and you go up to a courtroom,

717
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:47.880
<v Speaker 1>and there are some days where your number doesn't get called.

718
00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:50.840
<v Speaker 1>That was that time. The other two times I did

719
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:53.239
<v Speaker 1>get called up to a courtroom. At that time, I

720
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:55.960
<v Speaker 1>sat in that room till three o'clock in the afternoon,

721
00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:59.480
<v Speaker 1>from like eight in the morning, and I read pretty

722
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:01.599
<v Speaker 1>much the whole book. I was already in it, but

723
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:05.400
<v Speaker 1>I finished the book at jury duty that day.

724
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Anyways, for the record, just in case, another fun fact

725
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:12.719
<v Speaker 2>about jury duty at least term Pima County. You cannot

726
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:15.079
<v Speaker 2>take a crochet hook into because I had to also

727
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:15.960
<v Speaker 2>sit in that same room.

728
00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:18.119
<v Speaker 1>I could have told you that if you asked me

729
00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:19.400
<v Speaker 1>it's a crochet hook.

730
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:22.480
<v Speaker 2>I figured it's still yes, say I can take it

731
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:23.440
<v Speaker 2>onto the airplane.

732
00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:30.239
<v Speaker 1>It's a courthouse with criminals. The courthouse needs it's a

733
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:33.079
<v Speaker 1>courthouse with criminals in there. I realized that the criminals

734
00:45:33.079 --> 00:45:36.159
<v Speaker 1>are there tsa with a bunch of people that paid

735
00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:41.480
<v Speaker 1>for a plane ticket. They're literally possible murderers there.

736
00:45:41.519 --> 00:45:44.239
<v Speaker 2>It was like, do you have a long piece of

737
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:46.199
<v Speaker 2>metal in your bag? Because you have to go through

738
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:49.039
<v Speaker 2>a thing, and I was like, do you possibly have

739
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:51.239
<v Speaker 2>a shank in your bag? And I was like, well,

740
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:53.960
<v Speaker 2>I've got like a pen and he's like, yeah, maybe

741
00:45:53.960 --> 00:45:56.760
<v Speaker 2>that's it. And I go, oh, I have a crochet

742
00:45:56.840 --> 00:46:00.679
<v Speaker 2>hook and he's like, yeah, that would finally be it.

743
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:02.360
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, are you telling me I can't

744
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:05.199
<v Speaker 2>crochet while I'm sitting here? And he's like no, And

745
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:07.360
<v Speaker 2>I said, well, what if I brought in a plastic

746
00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:11.719
<v Speaker 2>crochet hook and he said no, And I said, well,

747
00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:14.559
<v Speaker 2>can then I bring in my embroidery kit and embroider

748
00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:17.000
<v Speaker 2>and he said no, and I said cross ditch and

749
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:18.960
<v Speaker 2>he said no.

750
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:20.679
<v Speaker 1>And I said, you don't what.

751
00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Am I supposed to do while I'm sitting here? Because

752
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:25.880
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to actually just sit there and doom

753
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:29.119
<v Speaker 2>scroll on my phone. And I didn't bring a book

754
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:31.000
<v Speaker 2>with me because I brought my crochet kit.

755
00:46:31.559 --> 00:46:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, I brought a book. Well, look at you Helter Skelter.

756
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:39.119
<v Speaker 2>That's so funny. Okay, so yeah, I think you're getting

757
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:42.119
<v Speaker 2>it confused. That's a different serial killer with a very

758
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.400
<v Speaker 2>different mo still a psychopath. Where he was charming, he

759
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:48.880
<v Speaker 2>was not good looking, also definitely had short man syndrome.

760
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:53.519
<v Speaker 2>So but Ted Bunny Ted Bundy, who also appeared on

761
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:58.280
<v Speaker 2>the outside to be a quote pillar of society. This

762
00:46:58.360 --> 00:46:59.880
<v Speaker 2>is what I will tell you this. We talked about

763
00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:06.679
<v Speaker 2>this sometimes as a female, specifically, studying men like this

764
00:47:06.840 --> 00:47:13.360
<v Speaker 2>is terrifying because they are disarming. So Ted Bundy was

765
00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:19.679
<v Speaker 2>born Theodore Robert Colwell November twenty fourth, n named Theodore

766
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Theodore Yet nineteen forty six to a female and was listen, well, okay,

767
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:32.559
<v Speaker 2>this one I'm taking was this is my point. He

768
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:37.119
<v Speaker 2>was brought into the earth via his mother, and I'm

769
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:42.360
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of aneminity around people that are related

770
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:45.079
<v Speaker 2>to these people, and I'm not she's probably obviously still

771
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:47.119
<v Speaker 2>not alive anymore. But I'm not going to like name

772
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:49.280
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of people that were in this man's circle

773
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:52.800
<v Speaker 2>who didn't have anything to do with the terrible things

774
00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:57.760
<v Speaker 2>that he did. So he was born to his mother

775
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:04.960
<v Speaker 2>inside the A Lizzazabeth lewed home for unwet mothers and

776
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:09.480
<v Speaker 2>his biological father. Technically, to this day has never been confirmed.

777
00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Some family members expressed suspicion that he was actually a

778
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:24.679
<v Speaker 2>product of incest by the mother's father. However, from what

779
00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:27.840
<v Speaker 2>I can find, and again a lot of this is

780
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:34.000
<v Speaker 2>unverifiable by a second or third source. A documentary film

781
00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:39.840
<v Speaker 2>called Crazy Not Insane. A psychiatrists at the time claimed

782
00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:41.440
<v Speaker 2>she received a sample of.

783
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Ted Bundy's blood.

784
00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:48.920
<v Speaker 2>And tested the DNA against his like his family members,

785
00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:53.760
<v Speaker 2>and it confirmed that he was not the product of incest. However,

786
00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:57.440
<v Speaker 2>it could not find any way to verify or second

787
00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:01.719
<v Speaker 2>source that. But that's what was out there, being the

788
00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:04.639
<v Speaker 2>point that I don't think things were aokay when he

789
00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:07.440
<v Speaker 2>was brought into this world. The first three years of

790
00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:11.639
<v Speaker 2>his life, Bundy lived in a neighborhood of Philadelphia with

791
00:49:11.719 --> 00:49:19.119
<v Speaker 2>his grandparents. The grandparents that maybe even supposedly was part

792
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:22.599
<v Speaker 2>of the incest, which if that's the case, take that

793
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:26.760
<v Speaker 2>for what it is. For whatever reason, because maybe it

794
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:30.280
<v Speaker 2>was of the time, the couple raised them as their

795
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:36.000
<v Speaker 2>own son to avoid social stigma. There was a company

796
00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:41.440
<v Speaker 2>by childbirth outside of wedlock. Family's friends and even young

797
00:49:41.480 --> 00:49:45.199
<v Speaker 2>Bundy were told that his grandparents were his biological mother

798
00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:49.639
<v Speaker 2>and father, and that his actual mother was his older sister.

799
00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:56.280
<v Speaker 2>So biographer and true crime writer and Rule who actually

800
00:49:56.360 --> 00:50:00.199
<v Speaker 2>knew Ted Bundy personally wrote that he didn't find out

801
00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:04.400
<v Speaker 2>about his true parentage until the year nineteen sixty nine,

802
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:09.960
<v Speaker 2>when he located his original birth record in Vermont. Bundy

803
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:14.079
<v Speaker 2>expressed a lifelong resentment after that towards his mother for

804
00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:17.800
<v Speaker 2>never telling him about his real father and for leaving

805
00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:23.119
<v Speaker 2>him to discover the truth about his genealogy on his own.

806
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:27.280
<v Speaker 2>I think we're kinding to see maybe at some point,

807
00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:30.760
<v Speaker 2>and again I'm not a professional, we start to see

808
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:35.000
<v Speaker 2>his resentment towards females a little early on in his life.

809
00:50:36.039 --> 00:50:42.679
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen fifty, his mother changed her surname and, at

810
00:50:42.679 --> 00:50:45.840
<v Speaker 2>the urge of multiple family members, left Philadelphia with her

811
00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:50.400
<v Speaker 2>son to live with her cousin in Tacoma, Washington. In

812
00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:54.320
<v Speaker 2>the next year, she would go on to marry a

813
00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:57.400
<v Speaker 2>man I'll just call him Johnny, but I guess last

814
00:50:57.440 --> 00:50:59.880
<v Speaker 2>name is Bundy. That's where he got it. He went

815
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:04.000
<v Speaker 2>on to actually, within right away of their marriage, adopt Bundy,

816
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:08.280
<v Speaker 2>and the couple welcomed four more additional children into the home.

817
00:51:09.079 --> 00:51:12.440
<v Speaker 2>According to his adopted father, he tried desperately to include

818
00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:16.039
<v Speaker 2>Bundy into camping trips and other family activities, but Bundy

819
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:19.880
<v Speaker 2>remained distant from him. He would later complain to a

820
00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:23.840
<v Speaker 2>girlfriend that Johnny was quote not his real father and

821
00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:28.679
<v Speaker 2>was quote wasn't very bright and didn't make much money.

822
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:29.800
<v Speaker 1>So we start to.

823
00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:36.639
<v Speaker 2>See again him putting inphasis and importance on outward appearance. So,

824
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:42.360
<v Speaker 2>of course, as we see in a lot of children

825
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:44.599
<v Speaker 2>that maybe grow on to be psychopaths, we do start

826
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:49.519
<v Speaker 2>to see disturbing behavior. A childhood neighbor in Tacoma recalled

827
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:52.360
<v Speaker 2>that Bundy was a mean spirited kid who liked to

828
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:58.639
<v Speaker 2>inflict pain and suffering and fear. According to this girl's report,

829
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:02.280
<v Speaker 2>he once engaged an animal cruelty by hanging a straight

830
00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:06.239
<v Speaker 2>cat from his backyard clothesline and setting it on fire

831
00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:07.679
<v Speaker 2>with lighter fluid.

832
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:12.079
<v Speaker 1>Just sick cats. I will say, I think that's.

833
00:52:12.519 --> 00:52:18.840
<v Speaker 2>That is one of the indicators of yeah, is inflicting cruelty.

834
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Cruelty Damn Yeah.

835
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:24.199
<v Speaker 2>She also claimed that Bundy would take younger children from

836
00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:28.159
<v Speaker 2>the neighborhood into the woods, force them to strip, and

837
00:52:28.199 --> 00:52:32.800
<v Speaker 2>then proceed to terrorize them. He then, in his early adolescence,

838
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:38.559
<v Speaker 2>became known as a local peeping tom. Again things that

839
00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:41.400
<v Speaker 2>I would consider to be red flags and warning signs

840
00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:43.440
<v Speaker 2>that maybe we needed to get some help.

841
00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:46.199
<v Speaker 1>In August.

842
00:52:47.800 --> 00:52:52.400
<v Speaker 2>Of nineteen sixty eight, Bundy attended the Republican National Convention

843
00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:58.800
<v Speaker 2>in Miami, and shortly afterwards he met a girl name.

844
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:04.239
<v Speaker 1>So John Ley Gacy was a Democrat, he was a Republican. Yeah,

845
00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:06.440
<v Speaker 1>it's on both sides of the aisle.

846
00:53:07.159 --> 00:53:11.719
<v Speaker 2>You're telling me that people in politics are narcissistic psychopaths.

847
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:15.199
<v Speaker 1>Ben, that's not I think I have a quote about

848
00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:20.199
<v Speaker 1>that in My and Mine in your story. Yeah.

849
00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:22.079
<v Speaker 2>So during this time he meets a girl by the

850
00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:24.679
<v Speaker 2>last move of Edwards, and he would tell later, I

851
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:26.360
<v Speaker 2>think in one of the books written about him, that

852
00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:29.440
<v Speaker 2>this was the one girl he actually ever had feelings

853
00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:33.760
<v Speaker 2>and like truly love the only person in his life. However,

854
00:53:34.840 --> 00:53:38.800
<v Speaker 2>their long term relationship at some point ends, and this.

855
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:41.840
<v Speaker 1>Kind of becomes.

856
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:47.639
<v Speaker 2>The pinpoint in Ted Bundy's life that things start to.

857
00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Really fall apart.

858
00:53:49.400 --> 00:53:52.760
<v Speaker 2>Devastated by the breakup, Bundy travels around the country and

859
00:53:53.079 --> 00:53:55.599
<v Speaker 2>at the time frequently visits New York City, where he

860
00:53:55.719 --> 00:53:59.280
<v Speaker 2>was drawn to pornography. He actually spoke quite a bit

861
00:53:59.320 --> 00:54:02.360
<v Speaker 2>about the use of pornography in one of the interviews

862
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:05.440
<v Speaker 2>that he did. One thing I actually didn't know about

863
00:54:05.440 --> 00:54:08.719
<v Speaker 2>New York City at the time was Times Square was

864
00:54:08.840 --> 00:54:13.960
<v Speaker 2>actually like an adult only sort of like Mecca with

865
00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:18.159
<v Speaker 2>peak shows and Triple X theaters and all of It's

866
00:54:18.199 --> 00:54:20.440
<v Speaker 2>crazy a someone who's been New York multiple times and

867
00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:28.360
<v Speaker 2>while Times Square is not like this amazing polish like Metropolis.

868
00:54:27.840 --> 00:54:29.840
<v Speaker 1>I think there's a target there.

869
00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:32.159
<v Speaker 2>Except there's a target and an old navy and a

870
00:54:32.199 --> 00:54:38.320
<v Speaker 2>really good pizza place, the best pizza you can ever find, Saborrows.

871
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:42.079
<v Speaker 1>You're thinking to Michael Scott at the office, that was

872
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:45.559
<v Speaker 1>a good one man, Thank you. That was best pizza

873
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:46.039
<v Speaker 1>in New York.

874
00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:52.039
<v Speaker 2>But I watched this documentary and because I didn't know

875
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:56.840
<v Speaker 2>this that during this time, Times Square was like the

876
00:54:56.880 --> 00:55:01.000
<v Speaker 2>CDCD part of Like and it was all Triple X stuff.

877
00:55:01.519 --> 00:55:05.000
<v Speaker 2>So Ted Bundy became a regular during this and he

878
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:06.079
<v Speaker 2>immersed himself.

879
00:55:06.519 --> 00:55:09.480
<v Speaker 1>How come x x X became you know what?

880
00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:12.920
<v Speaker 2>That is a podcast for a different day. I will

881
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:14.000
<v Speaker 2>send that touch.

882
00:55:13.880 --> 00:55:17.880
<v Speaker 1>The three x's and said, this has to do with

883
00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:18.480
<v Speaker 1>bad things.

884
00:55:18.519 --> 00:55:20.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't know because I think at one point the

885
00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:22.719
<v Speaker 2>triple X remember like an old cartoons. I think that

886
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:25.519
<v Speaker 2>was like on the liquor bottles. It was like XXX

887
00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:29.559
<v Speaker 2>was well, now we have do is that two x's though?

888
00:55:29.639 --> 00:55:33.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, So I'm just saying I don't know who

889
00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:36.760
<v Speaker 1>stole that. That's a Google search that I don't feel like.

890
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:39.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm not searching that. I refuse.

891
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:44.679
<v Speaker 2>So unfortunately, and he does actually a lot of interviews

892
00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:47.559
<v Speaker 2>about this. He began to immerse himself in the world

893
00:55:47.719 --> 00:55:51.480
<v Speaker 2>of extremely violent pornography.

894
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:55.199
<v Speaker 1>Including he was doing interviews, so it sounds like he

895
00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:56.360
<v Speaker 1>liked to listen to himself.

896
00:55:56.719 --> 00:55:59.159
<v Speaker 2>Him and both John Wayne Gacy talked about themselves a

897
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:05.280
<v Speaker 2>lot and violent literature with the undertones and themes of

898
00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:10.599
<v Speaker 2>pornography as well. It was also at this time, while

899
00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:13.920
<v Speaker 2>he was indulging in these things and angry about his breakup,

900
00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:19.039
<v Speaker 2>that he discovered the truth about his mother. So again

901
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:23.440
<v Speaker 2>we start to see everything piling on. In the fall

902
00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:26.719
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen sixty nine, he meets a girl named Elizabeth

903
00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:31.760
<v Speaker 2>and her young daughter. Their tumultuous relationship would actually continue

904
00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:36.559
<v Speaker 2>well past his incarceration in Utah in nineteen seventy six.

905
00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:41.480
<v Speaker 2>There's an entire documentary on this. It's a very complicated thing,

906
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:44.679
<v Speaker 2>this relationship with Elizabeth, I'm not going into that.

907
00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:48.960
<v Speaker 1>Are you seeing a relationship with a die of allcle mind?

908
00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:54.440
<v Speaker 2>And by mid nineteen seventy Bundy is focused and a

909
00:56:54.519 --> 00:56:59.559
<v Speaker 2>goal oriented. Based on this relationship, he re enrolls at

910
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:05.119
<v Speaker 2>you W as a psychology major. He becomes an honor

911
00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:09.119
<v Speaker 2>student and was well regarded by his professors. He takes

912
00:57:09.159 --> 00:57:15.760
<v Speaker 2>a job at Seattle's suicide crisis hotline. Again we see

913
00:57:15.800 --> 00:57:18.519
<v Speaker 2>this man for intending to be what everyone thinks he

914
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:22.400
<v Speaker 2>wants to be. To put your feelings to the side

915
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:30.440
<v Speaker 2>about any red flags. After graduating, he joined Governor Daniel

916
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Jay's re election campaign and was actually appointed to Seattle

917
00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:46.039
<v Speaker 2>Crime Prevention Advisory Committee. What that's It's just crazy to

918
00:57:46.039 --> 00:57:51.360
<v Speaker 2>me that Ted Bundy was on an anti crime committee.

919
00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:53.880
<v Speaker 1>I think that's what we call him oxymoron.

920
00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:59.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So there's actually no consensus as to when and

921
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:02.880
<v Speaker 2>where Ted Bundy actually started taking the lives of women.

922
00:58:03.639 --> 00:58:07.199
<v Speaker 2>He's told multiple different stories to multiple different people because

923
00:58:08.199 --> 00:58:12.800
<v Speaker 2>he is an a whole psychopath, guys, and again, a

924
00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:14.519
<v Speaker 2>lot of the stuff that I'm telling you about his

925
00:58:14.559 --> 00:58:16.320
<v Speaker 2>life is from him. So take it with a grain

926
00:58:16.360 --> 00:58:19.519
<v Speaker 2>of salt, because he probably lied about just about everything,

927
00:58:22.039 --> 00:58:25.360
<v Speaker 2>and he refused up until the very end to divulge

928
00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:30.719
<v Speaker 2>the specifics of his earliest crimes, and even like the

929
00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:35.199
<v Speaker 2>days proceeding right up into his execution. So we do

930
00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:38.559
<v Speaker 2>know that in January of nineteen seventy four, Bundy would

931
00:58:38.599 --> 00:58:41.960
<v Speaker 2>kick off a murder spree through the Western United States,

932
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:45.480
<v Speaker 2>including Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Utah and Colorado. He'd be

933
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:48.840
<v Speaker 2>found guilty of kidnapping and assaulting in June, where again

934
00:58:48.920 --> 00:58:52.920
<v Speaker 2>he was sentenced to fifteen years in prison. However, Bundy

935
00:58:53.320 --> 00:58:55.960
<v Speaker 2>was a slippery little sucker, and the other thing he

936
00:58:56.159 --> 00:59:00.159
<v Speaker 2>loved to do outside of murder and just being a crew.

937
00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:02.719
<v Speaker 1>Was escape.

938
00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:07.440
<v Speaker 2>He had multiple successful escapes, and in nineteen seventy seven,

939
00:59:07.719 --> 00:59:11.079
<v Speaker 2>Bundy piled books and files into his bed, cover them

940
00:59:11.159 --> 00:59:15.280
<v Speaker 2>up with a blanket, and climbed into the crawl space.

941
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:18.239
<v Speaker 2>He breaks through the ceiling into an apartment of the

942
00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:20.840
<v Speaker 2>chief jailer, who was out for the evening with his wife,

943
00:59:21.079 --> 00:59:24.719
<v Speaker 2>changed in the street clothes from the jailer's closet, and

944
00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:25.880
<v Speaker 2>walks out.

945
00:59:25.719 --> 00:59:26.400
<v Speaker 1>The front door.

946
00:59:27.239 --> 00:59:30.840
<v Speaker 2>The skeleton crew did not discover his escape until noon

947
00:59:30.920 --> 00:59:33.239
<v Speaker 2>on December thirty first, because a lot of people were

948
00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:37.800
<v Speaker 2>gone for the Christmas holidays. By then, Bundy was already

949
00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:42.519
<v Speaker 2>in Chicago, And this is what's said is that he

950
00:59:42.679 --> 00:59:43.840
<v Speaker 2>was at one point in prison.

951
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:44.639
<v Speaker 1>He escapes.

952
00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:47.239
<v Speaker 2>At this point, he takes a train to Florida and

953
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:50.360
<v Speaker 2>in January of nineteen seventy eight, living in tallyhousee Florida,

954
00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:52.719
<v Speaker 2>he promises himself he's going to be on the straight

955
00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:53.159
<v Speaker 2>and narrow.

956
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:55.840
<v Speaker 1>From this point, attempts to get a job. Did he

957
00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:59.960
<v Speaker 1>escape from murder or just out kidnapping an assault?

958
01:00:01.480 --> 01:00:04.000
<v Speaker 2>By this point, he tells himself he's going to get

959
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:06.760
<v Speaker 2>his life together and tries to start finding work. He

960
01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:10.199
<v Speaker 2>gets employment offered at a construction place, but within a

961
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:13.880
<v Speaker 2>few days is unable to prove his identification, so he

962
01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:18.119
<v Speaker 2>is let go firm work. And he blames the fact

963
01:00:18.199 --> 01:00:21.719
<v Speaker 2>that he couldn't find real work because he was on

964
01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:26.480
<v Speaker 2>the lamb as to why he was forced into shoplifting

965
01:00:26.559 --> 01:00:29.880
<v Speaker 2>and stealing money and credit cards for women's purses that

966
01:00:30.039 --> 01:00:32.440
<v Speaker 2>started him back into his life of crime. It wasn't

967
01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:37.559
<v Speaker 2>his fault, it was everyone else's fault. And so January fifteenth,

968
01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:43.960
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy eight, so literally like weeks after moving. At

969
01:00:43.960 --> 01:00:46.760
<v Speaker 2>one week after his arrival in Tallahassee, that he attempted

970
01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:50.679
<v Speaker 2>to get a job and couldn't possibly work, he would

971
01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:56.239
<v Speaker 2>start to murder people. He would enter this the sorority house.

972
01:00:56.519 --> 01:00:59.679
<v Speaker 2>This is terrible, you guys, So multiple trigger warnings throughout

973
01:00:59.679 --> 01:01:03.480
<v Speaker 2>this whole episode, obviously, but he would enter a sorority

974
01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:08.159
<v Speaker 2>house through the rear door, where a faulty lock gave way.

975
01:01:08.199 --> 01:01:10.840
<v Speaker 2>That night, he would brutally attack and murder three women

976
01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:15.079
<v Speaker 2>within the home, leaving a fourth one for dead. Karen Chandler,

977
01:01:15.159 --> 01:01:18.360
<v Speaker 2>aged twenty one, survived the attack only when she claimed

978
01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:22.880
<v Speaker 2>that in headlights from either a neighbor pulling in or

979
01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:25.719
<v Speaker 2>out spooked Ted Bunny and he left the house. So

980
01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:29.559
<v Speaker 2>he went in and brutally attacked four women within the home,

981
01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:30.599
<v Speaker 2>killing three of them.

982
01:01:32.119 --> 01:01:34.760
<v Speaker 1>February eighth, so less than like or just over.

983
01:01:34.880 --> 01:01:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Less than a month later, he would take the life

984
01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:40.039
<v Speaker 2>of Kimberly Leech, who was only twelve years old at

985
01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:45.599
<v Speaker 2>the time. February fifteenth, Ted Bundy's pulled over for driving

986
01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:49.239
<v Speaker 2>in a stolen car and is arrested. In the stolen vehicle,

987
01:01:49.280 --> 01:01:52.280
<v Speaker 2>they find three sets of IDs belonging to females who

988
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:58.280
<v Speaker 2>attended FSU students at FSU as students, and twenty one

989
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:01.320
<v Speaker 2>different stolen credit cards, and of course of all things

990
01:02:01.360 --> 01:02:07.639
<v Speaker 2>are stolen TV set. In the end, Ted Bundy would

991
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:12.280
<v Speaker 2>be given two death sentences issued July nineteen seventy nine.

992
01:02:12.400 --> 01:02:20.039
<v Speaker 2>In January nineteen seventy eight m and then again yeah,

993
01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:23.440
<v Speaker 2>the death sentence was for the twelve year old girl

994
01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:25.400
<v Speaker 2>was the second one, so for all the girls at

995
01:02:25.400 --> 01:02:27.559
<v Speaker 2>the Florida State and then the twelve year old girl

996
01:02:27.800 --> 01:02:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Kimberly Leach. Bundy declined a last meal and was executed

997
01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:35.920
<v Speaker 2>by the electric chair on Florida State Prison at seven

998
01:02:36.079 --> 01:02:40.440
<v Speaker 2>sixteen a m. On January twenty fourth, nineteen eighty nine,

999
01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:43.679
<v Speaker 2>at age forty two. His last words were addressed to

1000
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:47.800
<v Speaker 2>his attorney, a man named Jim, and a Methodist minister

1001
01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:49.039
<v Speaker 2>named Fred.

1002
01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Jim and Fred.

1003
01:02:51.039 --> 01:02:54.639
<v Speaker 2>He said, I'd like to give you my love and

1004
01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:56.599
<v Speaker 2>send it to my Oh no, just Scar, excuse me,

1005
01:02:56.679 --> 01:02:59.440
<v Speaker 2>Jim and Fred, I'd like you to give my love

1006
01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:05.719
<v Speaker 2>my family and friends. While incarceration, Ted Bundy confessed to

1007
01:03:05.719 --> 01:03:09.840
<v Speaker 2>over confessed to thirty murders committed across seven states between

1008
01:03:09.960 --> 01:03:13.360
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy four and nineteen seventy eight. So over four

1009
01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:15.880
<v Speaker 2>years he claims to have taken the life of thirty women.

1010
01:03:16.599 --> 01:03:19.960
<v Speaker 1>How many of these confirmed, Uh.

1011
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Not all of them yet, because I will tell you

1012
01:03:22.039 --> 01:03:26.360
<v Speaker 2>authorities actually believe the victim count is much higher. They

1013
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:29.119
<v Speaker 2>believe that the estimated range of the women that came

1014
01:03:29.159 --> 01:03:31.559
<v Speaker 2>into his path and their lives were ended could be

1015
01:03:31.639 --> 01:03:36.360
<v Speaker 2>up to one hundred victims. Even as of today. April

1016
01:03:36.519 --> 01:03:41.760
<v Speaker 2>of twenty twenty six, new DNA testing linked and UNSLF

1017
01:03:41.840 --> 01:03:46.679
<v Speaker 2>death of a young Utah teenage girl who walked to

1018
01:03:46.719 --> 01:03:49.760
<v Speaker 2>a convenience door on Halloween evening who went missing and

1019
01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:55.559
<v Speaker 2>was found dead later to to Ted Bundy. At the

1020
01:03:55.599 --> 01:03:59.519
<v Speaker 2>time of a girl named Ammy her killing, Bundy was

1021
01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:02.440
<v Speaker 2>living in Salt Lake and studying law at the University

1022
01:04:02.519 --> 01:04:07.800
<v Speaker 2>of Utah. So this is when we hear from one

1023
01:04:07.800 --> 01:04:10.079
<v Speaker 2>of the talking heads of the episode, a man named

1024
01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:13.519
<v Speaker 2>James Fox, who is a criminologist, and he says, quote,

1025
01:04:14.280 --> 01:04:18.639
<v Speaker 2>a lot of psychopaths don't just kill individuals. They're not

1026
01:04:19.519 --> 01:04:20.599
<v Speaker 2>content with that.

1027
01:04:21.639 --> 01:04:22.159
<v Speaker 1>A lot of.

1028
01:04:22.079 --> 01:04:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Psychopaths run countries. I see no fundamental difference between someone

1029
01:04:28.559 --> 01:04:32.559
<v Speaker 2>like Ted Bundy and someone like Adolf Hitler, who simply

1030
01:04:32.679 --> 01:04:40.840
<v Speaker 2>used very different techniques for a very similar end. Okay, sorry, guys,

1031
01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:44.840
<v Speaker 2>I've been talking for a while. This is again why

1032
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:46.679
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to point why I wanted to break this

1033
01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:47.679
<v Speaker 2>up into two episodes.

1034
01:04:47.719 --> 01:04:53.000
<v Speaker 1>So with that to speak clear though, that's not what

1035
01:04:53.119 --> 01:04:54.559
<v Speaker 1>Robert Steck told us.

1036
01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:58.519
<v Speaker 2>He they talked about these two men, but they only

1037
01:04:58.599 --> 01:05:00.519
<v Speaker 2>literally just said what they were going, picked it up

1038
01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:03.920
<v Speaker 2>and what they did. Yeap, which is what I'm going

1039
01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:06.280
<v Speaker 2>to guess. Ben's going to just tell us about the next.

1040
01:05:06.079 --> 01:05:11.039
<v Speaker 1>Two day talked about what Unsul Mysteries told us.

1041
01:05:12.159 --> 01:05:15.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, was that bad? I can rewrite my stuff.

1042
01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Nothing you ever do is bad. You are perfect in

1043
01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:21.159
<v Speaker 1>every way. Thank you.

1044
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:24.199
<v Speaker 2>This is this was my vision for this episode when

1045
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:28.119
<v Speaker 2>I saw that you have a vision, I have a vision.

1046
01:05:28.519 --> 01:05:31.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't okay, I have no visions.

1047
01:05:31.400 --> 01:05:34.679
<v Speaker 1>My vision was me telling you I'm just the person

1048
01:05:35.800 --> 01:05:37.000
<v Speaker 1>and I just do.

1049
01:05:37.360 --> 01:05:39.960
<v Speaker 2>And Ben is going to tell us about two men

1050
01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:44.119
<v Speaker 2>who were world leaders in psychopaths. They are just two

1051
01:05:44.119 --> 01:05:46.320
<v Speaker 2>of a drop in the bucket, just like John Wayne

1052
01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:47.639
<v Speaker 2>Gacy and Ted Bundy are.

1053
01:05:48.800 --> 01:05:55.239
<v Speaker 1>Okay, hold on, let me get my notes. I think

1054
01:05:55.639 --> 01:05:58.960
<v Speaker 1>they get a sticker that says that hold on, let

1055
01:05:59.039 --> 01:06:09.679
<v Speaker 1>me get my notes. Okay, very good, sir, Are you ready? Okay?

1056
01:06:09.679 --> 01:06:12.639
<v Speaker 1>But did you learn something about these? Learned a lot? Okay,

1057
01:06:14.039 --> 01:06:17.239
<v Speaker 1>I'll be honest. I thought Ted Bundy like went on

1058
01:06:17.280 --> 01:06:22.280
<v Speaker 1>a rampage. I didn't realize that after four that they

1059
01:06:22.360 --> 01:06:25.199
<v Speaker 1>knew about he caught and then it was like over

1060
01:06:25.400 --> 01:06:28.119
<v Speaker 1>decades we've linked him.

1061
01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Since yeah, because it was the fiction of the ones

1062
01:06:29.920 --> 01:06:32.400
<v Speaker 2>in Florida, but then they've found him throughout all of

1063
01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:34.599
<v Speaker 2>the Pacific, Northwest, Colorado and Utrabity.

1064
01:06:34.639 --> 01:06:38.480
<v Speaker 1>But I thought all these women, you thought this was

1065
01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:40.440
<v Speaker 1>all in a short amount of time, Like well, no,

1066
01:06:41.159 --> 01:06:45.039
<v Speaker 1>What I thought is that all these women had been killed.

1067
01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:49.039
<v Speaker 1>They kind of assumed and that they were hunting a

1068
01:06:49.079 --> 01:06:52.559
<v Speaker 1>serial killer, not knowing it was him for a long time.

1069
01:06:52.760 --> 01:06:54.480
<v Speaker 1>And then they finally found it was him, and they

1070
01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:57.039
<v Speaker 1>were surprised that it was him because he's this nice,

1071
01:06:57.119 --> 01:07:01.840
<v Speaker 1>good looking guy. I didn't know that. It was like, oh,

1072
01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:04.199
<v Speaker 1>he went there, he kills some people, and they caught

1073
01:07:04.239 --> 01:07:08.159
<v Speaker 1>him pretty quickly. And then they've come to find out

1074
01:07:08.280 --> 01:07:11.199
<v Speaker 1>later that he might be linked to all these other

1075
01:07:11.239 --> 01:07:15.679
<v Speaker 1>people and they just started linking things. Goes to show

1076
01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:22.280
<v Speaker 1>you my knowledge, I know, little read, little watched, little Okay,

1077
01:07:22.639 --> 01:07:28.559
<v Speaker 1>So here we go. Robert Stacks comes in. He's in

1078
01:07:28.559 --> 01:07:33.360
<v Speaker 1>this cool like library type of it's a pretty cool building,

1079
01:07:33.559 --> 01:07:38.239
<v Speaker 1>would you agree? Yeah? I was. I was into the building.

1080
01:07:38.519 --> 01:07:43.440
<v Speaker 1>It was like sophisticated, all right. And he says, the

1081
01:07:43.480 --> 01:07:51.800
<v Speaker 1>most destructive psychopaths are the ones that achieve absolute political power.

1082
01:07:51.960 --> 01:07:54.800
<v Speaker 1>And so then he goes on to tell us a

1083
01:07:54.840 --> 01:08:00.320
<v Speaker 1>little bit about Adolf Hitler. He appeared non threatening, like

1084
01:08:00.559 --> 01:08:08.400
<v Speaker 1>they show home videos of Hitler, and you know, he

1085
01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:12.320
<v Speaker 1>seemed personally seemed non threatening. But then we come and

1086
01:08:12.400 --> 01:08:16.079
<v Speaker 1>find out what did Hitler do? All right? So theories

1087
01:08:16.119 --> 01:08:21.640
<v Speaker 1>are that Hitler lacked bonding in his growing up. In

1088
01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:26.960
<v Speaker 1>his early years. We get some quotes by some docs

1089
01:08:27.000 --> 01:08:31.640
<v Speaker 1>and some psychologists that psychopaths grow up feeling unloved, out

1090
01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:34.960
<v Speaker 1>of control, and when he grows up, he was an

1091
01:08:35.039 --> 01:08:41.479
<v Speaker 1>intense need for control of others. Right. Hitler's father was

1092
01:08:41.520 --> 01:08:46.359
<v Speaker 1>fifty two when he was born. That's old. I can't

1093
01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:48.239
<v Speaker 1>imagine having a kid at fifty two.

1094
01:08:50.479 --> 01:08:53.119
<v Speaker 2>That sounds h I don't I can't imagine either, But

1095
01:08:53.199 --> 01:08:56.479
<v Speaker 2>I think that's typical with men that marry younger women.

1096
01:08:57.640 --> 01:09:06.800
<v Speaker 1>So, but his father was supposedly physically and emotionally abusive. Okay,

1097
01:09:08.960 --> 01:09:12.119
<v Speaker 1>we get another quote. Psychopaths killed because that is the

1098
01:09:12.359 --> 01:09:17.520
<v Speaker 1>ultimate act of humiliation and dominance to show their total

1099
01:09:17.600 --> 01:09:22.880
<v Speaker 1>power and control over other human beings. And the crazy

1100
01:09:22.880 --> 01:09:26.119
<v Speaker 1>part about Hitler is that he had no empathy for

1101
01:09:26.199 --> 01:09:29.760
<v Speaker 1>his victims. And we all know what Hitler did. He

1102
01:09:29.920 --> 01:09:34.840
<v Speaker 1>killed six mind Jews and a lot of other people.

1103
01:09:34.720 --> 01:09:37.600
<v Speaker 2>And rose to power because he was very personable.

1104
01:09:39.479 --> 01:09:43.720
<v Speaker 1>He was. Yeah, he was a great public big loser.

1105
01:09:43.840 --> 01:09:46.560
<v Speaker 2>He failed out of like everything he'd ever achieved, which

1106
01:09:46.600 --> 01:09:48.680
<v Speaker 2>sucks that the one thing he was successful at was

1107
01:09:48.680 --> 01:09:53.319
<v Speaker 2>becoming a world leader. As every other venture he tried

1108
01:09:53.399 --> 01:09:57.840
<v Speaker 2>to take on, relationships, art school, everything failed at.

1109
01:09:58.159 --> 01:09:59.920
<v Speaker 1>But yet this was the one thing he was six

1110
01:10:00.239 --> 01:10:07.359
<v Speaker 1>a lot. I have found Hitler and Germany that lead

1111
01:10:07.479 --> 01:10:10.479
<v Speaker 1>up very interesting. I've watched a lot of stuff on

1112
01:10:10.880 --> 01:10:14.359
<v Speaker 1>watch a lot of documentaries that great one. There's some

1113
01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:20.720
<v Speaker 1>excuse me, there is a Hitler's Circle of Evil on Netflix.

1114
01:10:21.079 --> 01:10:23.800
<v Speaker 1>And then Netflix just came out with one about like

1115
01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:27.840
<v Speaker 1>the Nuremberg Trials, but it's not. It talks about the

1116
01:10:27.920 --> 01:10:31.640
<v Speaker 1>Nuremberg Trials, but it also like goes back and talks

1117
01:10:31.680 --> 01:10:35.439
<v Speaker 1>about the lead up to that stuff. It's pretty awesome.

1118
01:10:36.399 --> 01:10:41.479
<v Speaker 1>I really liked it. So I've studied this a lot.

1119
01:10:41.600 --> 01:10:47.840
<v Speaker 1>I actually and I read part of that book from now.

1120
01:10:47.880 --> 01:10:50.640
<v Speaker 1>I can't think of his name, but he's the one

1121
01:10:50.680 --> 01:10:53.960
<v Speaker 1>that covered the Nuremberg trials. He's very famous. So he

1122
01:10:54.079 --> 01:10:56.479
<v Speaker 1>called The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. It's

1123
01:10:56.520 --> 01:11:01.159
<v Speaker 1>a massive book. It's huge, but I've read parts of it.

1124
01:11:01.159 --> 01:11:04.680
<v Speaker 1>It's a very very good didn't hit the write a book? Yeah,

1125
01:11:05.079 --> 01:11:08.439
<v Speaker 1>mind comp I've not read that. I don't need to.

1126
01:11:08.720 --> 01:11:10.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't think a lot of people need to read it,

1127
01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:13.399
<v Speaker 1>but I do know. But I do think it's fascinating

1128
01:11:14.199 --> 01:11:16.279
<v Speaker 1>under And here's the thing is, don't get me wrong.

1129
01:11:16.399 --> 01:11:18.640
<v Speaker 1>I think it's important that it's still out there. And

1130
01:11:18.680 --> 01:11:21.439
<v Speaker 1>this is what because I think it's important that we

1131
01:11:22.800 --> 01:11:29.439
<v Speaker 1>It does help you dive into his psychology, his thoughts,

1132
01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:33.039
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of what he did and why he

1133
01:11:33.079 --> 01:11:37.520
<v Speaker 1>did it is there so you can kind of see, like, hey, man,

1134
01:11:37.640 --> 01:11:40.680
<v Speaker 1>like he literally said it out loud. He might not

1135
01:11:40.800 --> 01:11:42.960
<v Speaker 1>said he was going to kill millions of Jews like

1136
01:11:43.560 --> 01:11:48.600
<v Speaker 1>said it in those words, but he did. It's not

1137
01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:52.840
<v Speaker 1>hard to, you know, connect the dots.

1138
01:11:53.560 --> 01:11:57.680
<v Speaker 2>No, I mean when you see his pathway as a

1139
01:11:57.720 --> 01:12:05.199
<v Speaker 2>collective whole. First off, Unfortunately and sadly, it didn't take long.

1140
01:12:05.359 --> 01:12:09.159
<v Speaker 2>This wasn't over decades and decades and decades of small

1141
01:12:10.039 --> 01:12:15.399
<v Speaker 2>like speeches that it gave desensitizing people to an entire

1142
01:12:15.439 --> 01:12:20.680
<v Speaker 2>group of other humans. It happened very quickly. But it

1143
01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:23.199
<v Speaker 2>is fascinating. It's not the good world. It is an

1144
01:12:23.279 --> 01:12:27.640
<v Speaker 2>interesting psychology somewhere in our human because it's another first

1145
01:12:27.680 --> 01:12:29.560
<v Speaker 2>time that this happens, and I doubt it'll be the

1146
01:12:29.640 --> 01:12:33.960
<v Speaker 2>last time it happens that you are able to get

1147
01:12:34.159 --> 01:12:38.760
<v Speaker 2>an entire species of human beings, because that's we are.

1148
01:12:38.800 --> 01:12:42.159
<v Speaker 1>We are species to hate.

1149
01:12:42.199 --> 01:12:46.119
<v Speaker 2>Another group of human beings to the point where you

1150
01:12:46.279 --> 01:12:49.039
<v Speaker 2>devalue their life to be next to nothing.

1151
01:12:49.479 --> 01:12:52.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's what I have found terrifying. I have

1152
01:12:52.399 --> 01:12:58.119
<v Speaker 1>found very fascinating. It's how like I read the book.

1153
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:02.520
<v Speaker 1>I just finished it not too long ago, and now

1154
01:13:02.520 --> 01:13:04.039
<v Speaker 1>I can't think of Well.

1155
01:13:03.960 --> 01:13:07.520
<v Speaker 2>There's the museum. There's a museum of Jewish history down

1156
01:13:07.560 --> 01:13:10.359
<v Speaker 2>in Tucson. I would highly recommend anybody go so, but

1157
01:13:10.399 --> 01:13:14.760
<v Speaker 2>they have a very like it's not small, it's very

1158
01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:18.399
<v Speaker 2>impactful area of that it's about Jewish history in the

1159
01:13:18.439 --> 01:13:22.079
<v Speaker 2>city of Tucson, which is quite amazing and beautiful. But

1160
01:13:22.279 --> 01:13:27.159
<v Speaker 2>then the second part of it is about the Holocaust

1161
01:13:27.520 --> 01:13:30.840
<v Speaker 2>and the history of that, and they talk about the

1162
01:13:30.880 --> 01:13:36.039
<v Speaker 2>process of genocide and where it starts and how you

1163
01:13:36.239 --> 01:13:39.960
<v Speaker 2>there's like ten steps of it or something that we've

1164
01:13:40.600 --> 01:13:44.439
<v Speaker 2>broken down into a scientific formula of how you can

1165
01:13:44.479 --> 01:13:49.520
<v Speaker 2>do it. And it's terrifying to see it broken down

1166
01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:55.720
<v Speaker 2>into steps, because in the animal Kingdom you rarely see

1167
01:13:56.199 --> 01:14:01.520
<v Speaker 2>other than the need for food and for reduction, you

1168
01:14:01.640 --> 01:14:05.199
<v Speaker 2>don't see an entire group turn on each other simply

1169
01:14:05.960 --> 01:14:12.439
<v Speaker 2>out of a disagreeance on something like faith or political

1170
01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:17.439
<v Speaker 2>standing or orders or anything at all like along those lines.

1171
01:14:17.560 --> 01:14:20.640
<v Speaker 2>And yet it is a pattern and a repeat in

1172
01:14:20.840 --> 01:14:24.920
<v Speaker 2>history that we see over and over again, and Hitler

1173
01:14:25.000 --> 01:14:27.039
<v Speaker 2>was able to use that. I did see a very

1174
01:14:27.039 --> 01:14:32.560
<v Speaker 2>fascinating documentary on the History Channel though about Hitler, well,

1175
01:14:32.560 --> 01:14:34.439
<v Speaker 2>that he didn't actually really take his own life.

1176
01:14:35.279 --> 01:14:38.880
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm not getting into that finding Hitler. No, I

1177
01:14:38.960 --> 01:14:42.640
<v Speaker 1>refuse is that not. The worst thing is that was

1178
01:14:42.720 --> 01:14:44.760
<v Speaker 1>one of the worst things I ever watched. And I

1179
01:14:44.760 --> 01:14:48.000
<v Speaker 1>didn't even finish things. I didn't even fit. I think

1180
01:14:48.039 --> 01:14:50.560
<v Speaker 1>we only got like three episodes in and I realized.

1181
01:14:52.119 --> 01:14:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Because it's so factually incorrect, and nothing happens it is

1182
01:15:00.399 --> 01:15:02.479
<v Speaker 2>and it's people just and you guys, I am a

1183
01:15:02.479 --> 01:15:04.279
<v Speaker 2>big conspiracy theory person, and.

1184
01:15:04.279 --> 01:15:07.680
<v Speaker 1>This was it's just people making up, like taking the

1185
01:15:07.720 --> 01:15:13.159
<v Speaker 1>smallest thing and making the largest assumption. No, Hitler was

1186
01:15:13.199 --> 01:15:13.680
<v Speaker 1>a coward.

1187
01:15:13.800 --> 01:15:16.199
<v Speaker 2>He took his own life within the basement. He also

1188
01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:18.760
<v Speaker 2>had a micropene. He was also a vegan and was

1189
01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:22.359
<v Speaker 2>also a major drug addict. Like his life sucked, Yeah,

1190
01:15:22.640 --> 01:15:25.119
<v Speaker 2>I was. He died in a bunker, like smelling his

1191
01:15:25.159 --> 01:15:28.760
<v Speaker 2>own farts in bo but escalated well because he was

1192
01:15:28.800 --> 01:15:32.640
<v Speaker 2>like everyone in that bunker was like on major uppers.

1193
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:36.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean disgusting. Yeah. So, like I just read

1194
01:15:36.800 --> 01:15:39.319
<v Speaker 1>that book Ordinary Man is what it's called, and it

1195
01:15:39.399 --> 01:15:42.439
<v Speaker 1>is fascinating because it kind of dives into like this

1196
01:15:42.479 --> 01:15:47.880
<v Speaker 1>one police this one police force that committed a lot

1197
01:15:47.880 --> 01:15:55.359
<v Speaker 1>of atrocities and what kind of we don't understand why really,

1198
01:15:56.479 --> 01:16:00.439
<v Speaker 1>So I thought it was fascinating. Anyways, that's pretty much

1199
01:16:00.439 --> 01:16:01.279
<v Speaker 1>Elio on Hitler.

1200
01:16:03.359 --> 01:16:06.479
<v Speaker 2>The fact that Hitler's bunker today is a parking lot,

1201
01:16:06.520 --> 01:16:07.479
<v Speaker 2>now good.

1202
01:16:08.359 --> 01:16:09.880
<v Speaker 1>And here's the thing. I think I've said this before

1203
01:16:09.920 --> 01:16:10.479
<v Speaker 1>on this podcast.

1204
01:16:10.520 --> 01:16:14.760
<v Speaker 2>There is a part of me that thinks, dang from

1205
01:16:15.279 --> 01:16:22.199
<v Speaker 2>a point of preserving history and seeking understanding, that would

1206
01:16:22.199 --> 01:16:27.000
<v Speaker 2>make a fascinating museum. But the people in that town

1207
01:16:27.079 --> 01:16:31.560
<v Speaker 2>in Germany said that the concern was that people would

1208
01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:33.680
<v Speaker 2>use it as a shrine and as someone who was like,

1209
01:16:34.119 --> 01:16:37.359
<v Speaker 2>there's no freaking way that that would happen, as in

1210
01:16:37.439 --> 01:16:40.720
<v Speaker 2>my childhood thinking no one would ever idolize Hitler. There

1211
01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:44.000
<v Speaker 2>are still psychopaths to this day that do. They could

1212
01:16:44.039 --> 01:16:47.840
<v Speaker 2>not preserve it into some sort of learning place, a

1213
01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:52.359
<v Speaker 2>memorial or a memorial for the terrible things that happened,

1214
01:16:52.439 --> 01:16:53.880
<v Speaker 2>not for the man that did it.

1215
01:16:55.000 --> 01:16:57.640
<v Speaker 1>That it is now literally a.

1216
01:16:57.640 --> 01:17:00.600
<v Speaker 2>Gravel trashed parking lot, and I can't think of a

1217
01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:03.880
<v Speaker 2>better place for Hitler's final resting place to just be.

1218
01:17:05.039 --> 01:17:06.439
<v Speaker 1>It could be like a dump.

1219
01:17:06.680 --> 01:17:09.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that's probably better, But.

1220
01:17:09.279 --> 01:17:11.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining.

1221
01:17:11.319 --> 01:17:14.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm not complaining it into a partner, all right. The

1222
01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:15.560
<v Speaker 2>second person that they talked to us.

1223
01:17:15.479 --> 01:17:17.680
<v Speaker 1>About Saddam Hussein.

1224
01:17:17.560 --> 01:17:20.600
<v Speaker 2>Ben and I, this is actually a part of our childhood.

1225
01:17:20.640 --> 01:17:24.960
<v Speaker 2>We got to learn this history.

1226
01:17:24.600 --> 01:17:28.359
<v Speaker 1>So we dive into Saddam. He grew up poor, without

1227
01:17:28.399 --> 01:17:32.079
<v Speaker 1>running water and electricity. He was beaten by his stepfather.

1228
01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:38.239
<v Speaker 1>He didn't go to school, so you know, he had

1229
01:17:38.239 --> 01:17:41.159
<v Speaker 1>a rough upbringing, and then he went on to become

1230
01:17:41.199 --> 01:17:47.159
<v Speaker 1>part of politics. He manipulated his way into power. And

1231
01:17:47.199 --> 01:17:50.039
<v Speaker 1>they tell us have all these psychologists that they tell

1232
01:17:50.119 --> 01:17:53.840
<v Speaker 1>us he learned along the way that violence was the

1233
01:17:53.960 --> 01:17:57.960
<v Speaker 1>key to power. Okay, they just kind of throw that

1234
01:17:58.000 --> 01:18:03.720
<v Speaker 1>statement out there, Okay, I believe you, all right. During

1235
01:18:03.760 --> 01:18:08.439
<v Speaker 1>the sixties and seventies, Hussein tortured and killed his rivals,

1236
01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:14.239
<v Speaker 1>and he murdered thousands of people by nineteen seventy nine.

1237
01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Robert Stack says he had instilled so much fear in

1238
01:18:20.920 --> 01:18:25.000
<v Speaker 1>the people that he gained the presidency just by asking

1239
01:18:25.119 --> 01:18:27.680
<v Speaker 1>for it. I did look up, like I guess he

1240
01:18:27.800 --> 01:18:30.439
<v Speaker 1>was vice president at the time. So it's not like

1241
01:18:31.199 --> 01:18:35.319
<v Speaker 1>he was just this guy out committing terror and walked

1242
01:18:35.359 --> 01:18:38.840
<v Speaker 1>into the Capitol and said, hey, I want to be president.

1243
01:18:39.560 --> 01:18:44.319
<v Speaker 1>Not that that makes it any better, but all right,

1244
01:18:45.439 --> 01:18:51.520
<v Speaker 1>and so and then he gains power, he becomes president.

1245
01:18:51.600 --> 01:18:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Within days of him becoming president, he holds a meeting

1246
01:18:55.119 --> 01:19:00.800
<v Speaker 1>and says, anyone that disagrees with me, he might not

1247
01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:03.520
<v Speaker 1>have said it this way. He then just charges his

1248
01:19:03.600 --> 01:19:07.800
<v Speaker 1>political rivals with treason so that he can imprison him

1249
01:19:07.920 --> 01:19:13.920
<v Speaker 1>and kill him. So then we get told like, this guy, clearly,

1250
01:19:14.119 --> 01:19:17.600
<v Speaker 1>this guy, he's kind of a he's a doctor PhD guy.

1251
01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:22.600
<v Speaker 1>He is an expert on Saddam. He tells us of like, so,

1252
01:19:22.680 --> 01:19:27.920
<v Speaker 1>Saddam had invaded Iran in the eighties and it wasn't

1253
01:19:27.960 --> 01:19:33.920
<v Speaker 1>going well. So they had a meeting and he was saying, listen,

1254
01:19:34.600 --> 01:19:37.119
<v Speaker 1>what do we need to do. How can we turn

1255
01:19:37.159 --> 01:19:42.319
<v Speaker 1>this around? And they're like, no, thing's going great, you know,

1256
01:19:42.359 --> 01:19:44.880
<v Speaker 1>because everyone's afraid of him. And he's like, no, I

1257
01:19:44.920 --> 01:19:50.960
<v Speaker 1>want your like candid, truthful answers. So one of his

1258
01:19:51.079 --> 01:19:55.239
<v Speaker 1>ministers says, hey, listen, they want you to step down.

1259
01:19:56.439 --> 01:19:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Why don't you just step down for a little bit.

1260
01:20:00.520 --> 01:20:05.159
<v Speaker 1>Let us get this piece figured out, and then we'll

1261
01:20:05.199 --> 01:20:08.319
<v Speaker 1>just put you right back in power. After and he

1262
01:20:08.439 --> 01:20:13.520
<v Speaker 1>thanks him for his candidness and thank you for your

1263
01:20:13.560 --> 01:20:18.119
<v Speaker 1>honest and then arrests him. His wife comes to Saddama says,

1264
01:20:18.159 --> 01:20:21.279
<v Speaker 1>please please release my husband. He wasn't doing anything, he

1265
01:20:21.359 --> 01:20:23.880
<v Speaker 1>was just trying to do what's right. And he's like, fine,

1266
01:20:24.039 --> 01:20:27.079
<v Speaker 1>I will and he sends his body chumped up in

1267
01:20:27.159 --> 01:20:29.600
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of pieces in a black bag to his wife.

1268
01:20:29.720 --> 01:20:37.920
<v Speaker 1>So not a good person. Ah, then we find out

1269
01:20:37.960 --> 01:20:40.079
<v Speaker 1>what else did he do in our lifetime? And you

1270
01:20:40.119 --> 01:20:42.199
<v Speaker 1>know very well because your dad served in the war.

1271
01:20:42.680 --> 01:20:50.239
<v Speaker 1>He invaded Kuwait and started Desert Storm, So yep, Papa.

1272
01:20:49.880 --> 01:20:54.159
<v Speaker 2>How served in Desert Storm as a CB yep yep.

1273
01:20:54.600 --> 01:21:00.439
<v Speaker 1>And you know they obviously lost Desert Storm and non

1274
01:21:00.439 --> 01:21:05.119
<v Speaker 1>promise that he would terminate his chemical and nuclear program

1275
01:21:06.720 --> 01:21:10.439
<v Speaker 1>and the UN pretty much said no, he lied about that.

1276
01:21:10.720 --> 01:21:17.640
<v Speaker 1>So he's a liar and narcissist. Yeah, So this was

1277
01:21:17.640 --> 01:21:19.680
<v Speaker 1>my quote. This kind of goes into both of them.

1278
01:21:20.199 --> 01:21:26.359
<v Speaker 1>We get that PhD guy and he says, I'm sorry

1279
01:21:27.279 --> 01:21:34.399
<v Speaker 1>of If one were to strip world leaders and politicians

1280
01:21:34.520 --> 01:21:42.359
<v Speaker 1>of narcissistic characters, the ranks would be perishly thinned. We must,

1281
01:21:44.720 --> 01:21:48.840
<v Speaker 1>we must always be alert to that fusion between that

1282
01:21:49.119 --> 01:21:56.000
<v Speaker 1>personal drive for power unconstrained by conscience when it meets

1283
01:21:56.039 --> 01:22:01.119
<v Speaker 1>a wounded population, which you know at that time, like

1284
01:22:01.279 --> 01:22:04.960
<v Speaker 1>especially Germany, Right, they were a very wounded population.

1285
01:22:05.079 --> 01:22:07.079
<v Speaker 2>Germany was right off the cusp of World War One.

1286
01:22:07.279 --> 01:22:11.039
<v Speaker 1>Correct, Yeah, they were in were not great, bad shape.

1287
01:22:11.279 --> 01:22:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Economics someone to blame when it meets a wounded population

1288
01:22:16.800 --> 01:22:22.520
<v Speaker 1>that has the repetitive, repetitively over history led to some

1289
01:22:22.640 --> 01:22:26.840
<v Speaker 1>of the most violent episodes that have scarred our planet.

1290
01:22:27.319 --> 01:22:29.520
<v Speaker 1>And that is still I thought that was a good day. Yeah,

1291
01:22:29.560 --> 01:22:31.680
<v Speaker 1>I thought. That's why I wrote this Scorde down because

1292
01:22:31.720 --> 01:22:36.319
<v Speaker 1>even in nineteen ninety one when this episode aired, I

1293
01:22:36.399 --> 01:22:39.840
<v Speaker 1>still think that that statement is true. Like, obviously we

1294
01:22:39.920 --> 01:22:43.880
<v Speaker 1>all know anyone that doesn't think that pretty much, any

1295
01:22:43.960 --> 01:22:50.439
<v Speaker 1>politician is not a narcissist. Term limits, you guys, Yeah,

1296
01:22:50.479 --> 01:22:57.119
<v Speaker 1>and I'm sorry any politician on both sides. I know

1297
01:22:57.199 --> 01:22:59.800
<v Speaker 1>if you guys saw a political podcast, I'm not getting

1298
01:22:59.800 --> 01:23:01.199
<v Speaker 1>into politics.

1299
01:23:01.399 --> 01:23:06.399
<v Speaker 2>Limits because every person on every side at this moment,

1300
01:23:07.000 --> 01:23:09.359
<v Speaker 2>and maybe not everyone, I would say ninety eight percent

1301
01:23:09.399 --> 01:23:18.199
<v Speaker 2>of them are selfish, narcissistic, psychopathic, self serving, terrible human beings.

1302
01:23:19.680 --> 01:23:24.920
<v Speaker 1>They're not good people. That's what I'm saying. Anyone that

1303
01:23:25.079 --> 01:23:29.920
<v Speaker 1>thinks that politicians are not narcissists, crazy, do not put

1304
01:23:29.920 --> 01:23:33.279
<v Speaker 1>your faith in I'm not saying politicians are murderers. That's

1305
01:23:33.319 --> 01:23:37.720
<v Speaker 1>not what I'm saying. I'm not saying all politicians. Not allicians.

1306
01:23:37.760 --> 01:23:40.359
<v Speaker 1>Politicians are Adolf Hitler or Saddam Hussein.

1307
01:23:40.479 --> 01:23:43.840
<v Speaker 2>No, And in fact, I actually think it's very disrespectful

1308
01:23:43.960 --> 01:23:46.600
<v Speaker 2>to say that. Absolutely, and I know that's been a

1309
01:23:46.680 --> 01:23:48.039
<v Speaker 2>term thrown around again.

1310
01:23:48.479 --> 01:23:49.800
<v Speaker 1>We're not a political podcast.

1311
01:23:50.079 --> 01:23:54.279
<v Speaker 2>I think it's very disrespectful to the six million people

1312
01:23:55.600 --> 01:24:00.560
<v Speaker 2>that experienced what they did with Adolf Hitler to compare

1313
01:24:00.720 --> 01:24:11.439
<v Speaker 2>politicians to that. However, to not first off, just no

1314
01:24:11.560 --> 01:24:15.079
<v Speaker 2>politician is a savior. No politician is going to fix everything,

1315
01:24:15.600 --> 01:24:18.800
<v Speaker 2>and they're all untrustworthy. And we have to be aware

1316
01:24:18.920 --> 01:24:21.760
<v Speaker 2>as human beings no matter where we are at in

1317
01:24:21.880 --> 01:24:28.239
<v Speaker 2>the world, that whoever is trying to lead our country likely.

1318
01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:31.640
<v Speaker 1>Is someone who.

1319
01:24:31.600 --> 01:24:37.319
<v Speaker 2>Could be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder or psychopathic tendencies.

1320
01:24:37.600 --> 01:24:39.920
<v Speaker 1>And I'm not gonna say they're all I've got a

1321
01:24:40.000 --> 01:24:44.119
<v Speaker 1>diabolical mind. I'm just saying, like, guess, as politicians, not

1322
01:24:44.319 --> 01:24:47.960
<v Speaker 1>just all over the country, all over not the country,

1323
01:24:48.039 --> 01:24:49.159
<v Speaker 1>the world, That's what I'm saying.

1324
01:24:49.520 --> 01:24:51.119
<v Speaker 2>So I told Ben the other day I was going

1325
01:24:51.159 --> 01:24:54.119
<v Speaker 2>to run for State Senate, and my only campaign that

1326
01:24:54.199 --> 01:24:57.479
<v Speaker 2>I was going to run on was that everyone else

1327
01:24:57.560 --> 01:24:58.479
<v Speaker 2>is untrustworthy.

1328
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:02.760
<v Speaker 1>All I have to say you got to come with receipts, though,

1329
01:25:02.920 --> 01:25:05.199
<v Speaker 1>you got to be able to I could find receipts, yeah,

1330
01:25:05.199 --> 01:25:07.399
<v Speaker 1>I believe you could. You just you got to come

1331
01:25:07.439 --> 01:25:07.760
<v Speaker 1>with them.

1332
01:25:08.279 --> 01:25:10.399
<v Speaker 2>But I think that could That's the one fact that

1333
01:25:10.479 --> 01:25:12.199
<v Speaker 2>no matter what side of the aisle you were on,

1334
01:25:12.359 --> 01:25:16.680
<v Speaker 2>everyone is over. I want everything flushed out. And again

1335
01:25:17.479 --> 01:25:20.840
<v Speaker 2>not political, but term limits I feel like is not

1336
01:25:20.880 --> 01:25:23.159
<v Speaker 2>going to fix everything, but it could.

1337
01:25:22.920 --> 01:25:28.119
<v Speaker 1>Help a little bit. Yeah. Anyways, uh So Robert Stack

1338
01:25:28.199 --> 01:25:31.840
<v Speaker 1>comes back and it's like he said, I thought. He

1339
01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:36.640
<v Speaker 1>kind of says, most, you know politicians, We see these people,

1340
01:25:36.680 --> 01:25:38.960
<v Speaker 1>they rise to power, they do all these terrible things,

1341
01:25:39.039 --> 01:25:42.720
<v Speaker 1>and he goes, many politicians die in the flames. They

1342
01:25:42.760 --> 01:25:46.359
<v Speaker 1>help at nite, especially like we saw that with Adolf Hitler. Right,

1343
01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:50.079
<v Speaker 1>beautiful quote by Roberts Dacks. But he says some did

1344
01:25:50.119 --> 01:25:53.960
<v Speaker 1>not like he quotes one or he names one. I

1345
01:25:54.039 --> 01:25:56.319
<v Speaker 1>actually didn't know who it was. I didn't look it up.

1346
01:25:56.399 --> 01:25:59.039
<v Speaker 1>He says, like he stepped down and lived his life

1347
01:25:59.039 --> 01:26:01.920
<v Speaker 1>in exile. I don't know who that was. I'd have

1348
01:26:01.960 --> 01:26:05.880
<v Speaker 1>to look it up. And that he goes, but Adolf

1349
01:26:05.960 --> 01:26:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Hitler died in the flames he ignited, and then he says,

1350
01:26:08.920 --> 01:26:12.039
<v Speaker 1>we'll have to see with Saddam Hussein, I.

1351
01:26:12.000 --> 01:26:14.239
<v Speaker 2>Will say, I like, this is the one thing, not

1352
01:26:14.319 --> 01:26:16.319
<v Speaker 2>the one thing. There's been a couple of updates that

1353
01:26:16.399 --> 01:26:21.800
<v Speaker 2>unsolved mysteries hasn't given us and Robert Stax once he says,

1354
01:26:21.920 --> 01:26:26.720
<v Speaker 2>we'll have to see what happens with Saddam who's sing. Yeah,

1355
01:26:26.760 --> 01:26:30.079
<v Speaker 2>And for whatever reason, they have not updated.

1356
01:26:30.319 --> 01:26:35.439
<v Speaker 1>So Ben, what is our up up date? Are you

1357
01:26:35.479 --> 01:26:37.039
<v Speaker 1>ready for your update? I'm ready for this.

1358
01:26:37.199 --> 01:26:37.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1359
01:26:37.560 --> 01:26:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Saddam Hussein is dead. He has passed away. He has

1360
01:26:41.039 --> 01:26:42.119
<v Speaker 1>been taken out.

1361
01:26:41.960 --> 01:26:48.039
<v Speaker 2>He has been removed as many many of us probably

1362
01:26:48.159 --> 01:26:49.159
<v Speaker 2>know happening.

1363
01:26:49.319 --> 01:26:55.479
<v Speaker 1>But if you don't know, uh, the United States invaded

1364
01:26:56.319 --> 01:27:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Iraq and marched I think on March twentieth, two thousand

1365
01:27:01.680 --> 01:27:05.840
<v Speaker 1>and three. I remember that. I remember it specifically.

1366
01:27:05.920 --> 01:27:08.279
<v Speaker 2>I remember it very well because we were seniors in

1367
01:27:08.439 --> 01:27:11.119
<v Speaker 2>high was a senior in high school, and I think

1368
01:27:11.159 --> 01:27:13.199
<v Speaker 2>a lot of us were paying attention because there was

1369
01:27:13.239 --> 01:27:15.079
<v Speaker 2>talks about the draft coming back.

1370
01:27:16.279 --> 01:27:19.479
<v Speaker 1>Well, we were already in Afghanistan at the time, and

1371
01:27:19.880 --> 01:27:23.000
<v Speaker 1>I remember the clasp of nine to eleven. I remember

1372
01:27:23.159 --> 01:27:31.359
<v Speaker 1>very well because Bush not just like randomly invaded. He

1373
01:27:31.600 --> 01:27:35.359
<v Speaker 1>told him we're coming if you don't do this. He

1374
01:27:35.520 --> 01:27:39.560
<v Speaker 1>said they had weapons of mass destruction and we're coming

1375
01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:43.399
<v Speaker 1>if you don't and pretty much kind of gave him

1376
01:27:43.399 --> 01:27:45.239
<v Speaker 1>a timeline if you don't do it by this time,

1377
01:27:45.279 --> 01:27:49.920
<v Speaker 1>and then he did it came. I remember watching it

1378
01:27:49.960 --> 01:27:53.279
<v Speaker 1>on TV in the evening when we started. I do

1379
01:27:53.399 --> 01:27:54.279
<v Speaker 1>too shooting.

1380
01:27:54.840 --> 01:28:00.640
<v Speaker 2>And I remember because I my freshman year of high school.

1381
01:28:00.920 --> 01:28:03.840
<v Speaker 1>I the end of my freshman year.

1382
01:28:03.840 --> 01:28:06.960
<v Speaker 2>The summer after my freshman year, I had a boyfriend

1383
01:28:07.520 --> 01:28:10.000
<v Speaker 2>who had joined the military. He had graduated, and it

1384
01:28:10.079 --> 01:28:13.359
<v Speaker 2>was a very like baby summer fling that was like

1385
01:28:13.880 --> 01:28:16.479
<v Speaker 2>so cute and innocent because I wasn't even allowed to

1386
01:28:16.520 --> 01:28:19.159
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote go on dates with him. But he had

1387
01:28:19.279 --> 01:28:23.159
<v Speaker 2>joined the military his senior year and my freshman year,

1388
01:28:23.159 --> 01:28:25.079
<v Speaker 2>which had been in the year two thousand so before

1389
01:28:25.159 --> 01:28:31.159
<v Speaker 2>all of this happened. So I remember in three for

1390
01:28:31.199 --> 01:28:35.119
<v Speaker 2>the first time outside of like my father had obviously

1391
01:28:35.159 --> 01:28:39.880
<v Speaker 2>been in Desert Storm, my grandfather had also been in

1392
01:28:39.920 --> 01:28:44.800
<v Speaker 2>the military. This was someone close to my age who

1393
01:28:44.920 --> 01:28:48.840
<v Speaker 2>I knew, who wasn't just like an older person in

1394
01:28:48.880 --> 01:28:53.560
<v Speaker 2>my life was likely going to be going overseas to

1395
01:28:53.760 --> 01:28:59.680
<v Speaker 2>fight a war, and that being really close to home

1396
01:28:59.800 --> 01:29:03.199
<v Speaker 2>for me. And I also remember waiting to see these

1397
01:29:03.239 --> 01:29:08.039
<v Speaker 2>weapons of mass destruction found which dot dot dot they

1398
01:29:08.039 --> 01:29:14.560
<v Speaker 2>never were. But I do remember the hunt for Saddam,

1399
01:29:14.680 --> 01:29:15.560
<v Speaker 2>who sang.

1400
01:29:15.880 --> 01:29:22.600
<v Speaker 1>So yep so we invaded and we captured Saddam on

1401
01:29:22.840 --> 01:29:30.279
<v Speaker 1>December captured just like they say, ontured December thirteenth, two

1402
01:29:30.319 --> 01:29:36.079
<v Speaker 1>thousand and three. Actually got them pretty quickly. Yeah, I

1403
01:29:36.119 --> 01:29:39.439
<v Speaker 1>actually had double check that. That seems really cool. I

1404
01:29:39.520 --> 01:29:42.840
<v Speaker 1>double checked it. It was quick. Yeah, it was almost

1405
01:29:42.920 --> 01:29:44.479
<v Speaker 1>within a year we found.

1406
01:29:44.479 --> 01:29:47.359
<v Speaker 2>Because we evaded and invaded in March and then by

1407
01:29:47.960 --> 01:29:52.479
<v Speaker 2>the end of the year he was captured. Okay, because

1408
01:29:52.520 --> 01:29:55.439
<v Speaker 2>you actually have kind of a connection story to this,

1409
01:29:55.960 --> 01:29:56.880
<v Speaker 2>are you going to share that.

1410
01:29:59.359 --> 01:30:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Loosely? Can you share it? I will be very very

1411
01:30:03.039 --> 01:30:07.760
<v Speaker 1>loose Okay. I lived in Indiana several years after this

1412
01:30:08.560 --> 01:30:14.760
<v Speaker 1>and met a man, great guy. He showed me pictures

1413
01:30:15.600 --> 01:30:20.119
<v Speaker 1>of him pulling Saddam's Who's saying out of his tunnel. Yep,

1414
01:30:21.359 --> 01:30:21.960
<v Speaker 1>good man.

1415
01:30:23.199 --> 01:30:26.439
<v Speaker 2>So he would have likely been like Black Ops or

1416
01:30:26.600 --> 01:30:28.319
<v Speaker 2>Seal he was.

1417
01:30:31.039 --> 01:30:36.640
<v Speaker 1>He was Special Forces Forces, but also then a contractor. Oh.

1418
01:30:37.079 --> 01:30:39.279
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if he was a contractor at the time.

1419
01:30:39.720 --> 01:30:42.640
<v Speaker 2>After his military service went into private contractor work.

1420
01:30:42.680 --> 01:30:44.479
<v Speaker 1>I think he didn't get into a lot of his.

1421
01:30:44.600 --> 01:30:47.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure he didn't, but I love that he showed

1422
01:30:47.640 --> 01:30:48.560
<v Speaker 2>you those pictures though.

1423
01:30:48.560 --> 01:30:49.800
<v Speaker 1>It was pretty cool.

1424
01:30:50.199 --> 01:30:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, especially because you were what nineteen, twenty years old

1425
01:30:53.000 --> 01:30:54.920
<v Speaker 2>when you're seeing one at the time, and that's the

1426
01:30:54.960 --> 01:30:59.319
<v Speaker 2>thing you had just had that lived experience of US invading.

1427
01:31:00.079 --> 01:31:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, I was in high school at the time,

1428
01:31:02.760 --> 01:31:05.920
<v Speaker 1>so yeah. So yeah, it was cool. But he then

1429
01:31:06.079 --> 01:31:09.760
<v Speaker 1>was turned over to the people of Iraq and he

1430
01:31:10.039 --> 01:31:14.439
<v Speaker 1>was convicted in November of two thousand and six and

1431
01:31:14.479 --> 01:31:16.359
<v Speaker 1>then hanged nearly two.

1432
01:31:16.199 --> 01:31:18.199
<v Speaker 2>Thousand and six. It was three years later. I didn't

1433
01:31:18.239 --> 01:31:20.840
<v Speaker 2>realize it took that long. Well, I think I'm getting

1434
01:31:20.840 --> 01:31:22.960
<v Speaker 2>it mixed up with Osama bin Laden.

1435
01:31:23.239 --> 01:31:27.039
<v Speaker 1>We killed Osama, yeah, we shot him. Yeah, and then

1436
01:31:27.359 --> 01:31:31.399
<v Speaker 1>and that was two eleven. Yeah, I think it was

1437
01:31:31.439 --> 01:31:34.399
<v Speaker 1>twenty and eleven. So it was during Obama's I was

1438
01:31:34.439 --> 01:31:37.279
<v Speaker 1>going to say that wasn't under Bush, that was under Obama. Yeah.

1439
01:31:38.039 --> 01:31:41.279
<v Speaker 1>So he was convicted November fifth, two thousand and six,

1440
01:31:41.880 --> 01:31:46.399
<v Speaker 1>and then he was executed by hanging December thirtieth of

1441
01:31:46.399 --> 01:31:48.680
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and six. So they waited less than two

1442
01:31:48.680 --> 01:31:49.640
<v Speaker 1>months and they hanged him.

1443
01:31:49.840 --> 01:31:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1444
01:31:50.039 --> 01:31:54.239
<v Speaker 1>They do it quicker in other countries here. So he's dead.

1445
01:31:54.760 --> 01:31:56.439
<v Speaker 2>And I will say this, I don't know if this

1446
01:31:56.520 --> 01:31:58.680
<v Speaker 2>is true, but rumor has it that when you're hung,

1447
01:31:59.039 --> 01:32:01.279
<v Speaker 2>you pee yourself and I just think if you are

1448
01:32:01.319 --> 01:32:03.960
<v Speaker 2>a terrible world leader and that is how you go

1449
01:32:04.079 --> 01:32:10.159
<v Speaker 2>out in the most undignified way, you probably deserved what

1450
01:32:10.640 --> 01:32:14.920
<v Speaker 2>you got. Because he wasn't just a terrible person to

1451
01:32:14.960 --> 01:32:17.039
<v Speaker 2>the rest of the world, who was also a terrible

1452
01:32:17.039 --> 01:32:19.359
<v Speaker 2>people to his own people.

1453
01:32:19.600 --> 01:32:23.720
<v Speaker 1>Well he was. It is rumored that he killed like

1454
01:32:27.279 --> 01:32:30.079
<v Speaker 1>a quarter of a million people, up to three hundred

1455
01:32:30.119 --> 01:32:30.760
<v Speaker 1>thousand people.

1456
01:32:30.880 --> 01:32:35.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that we don't know that about video of

1457
01:32:35.640 --> 01:32:40.479
<v Speaker 2>him like calling people out in that forum, that group meeting.

1458
01:32:40.960 --> 01:32:45.159
<v Speaker 2>It was arrested time they're taken out and executed on

1459
01:32:45.199 --> 01:32:49.840
<v Speaker 2>the spot. There's something about watching that that you just

1460
01:32:49.880 --> 01:32:51.199
<v Speaker 2>feel sick to your stomach.

1461
01:32:51.359 --> 01:32:54.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he was. He was a tyrant and a mass murderer.

1462
01:32:54.600 --> 01:32:59.159
<v Speaker 1>So he deserved to be hanged, and he deserves not

1463
01:32:59.279 --> 01:33:04.479
<v Speaker 1>to be anymore. So Okay, I'm glad his people got

1464
01:33:04.520 --> 01:33:06.720
<v Speaker 1>to do that. All right, guys.

1465
01:33:06.760 --> 01:33:09.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm going to read a couple of our reviews

1466
01:33:09.600 --> 01:33:12.520
<v Speaker 2>that we've gotten lately to encourage you all to leave

1467
01:33:12.560 --> 01:33:15.720
<v Speaker 2>a review. Pick a fun name. You can leave it

1468
01:33:16.159 --> 01:33:22.159
<v Speaker 2>in Apple podcasts or comment on Spotify something fun with

1469
01:33:22.239 --> 01:33:25.399
<v Speaker 2>a five star review or a fun, uplifting positive comment,

1470
01:33:25.880 --> 01:33:28.880
<v Speaker 2>and I will read it here for everyone to hear.

1471
01:33:29.479 --> 01:33:33.399
<v Speaker 2>And then we're going to end this episode and part

1472
01:33:33.720 --> 01:33:39.000
<v Speaker 2>two of season four, episode twenty three of Unsolved Mysteries,

1473
01:33:39.600 --> 01:33:43.600
<v Speaker 2>Into the Diabolical Mind or whatever it's called, actually goes

1474
01:33:43.640 --> 01:33:46.800
<v Speaker 2>into a case of a female that does some pretty

1475
01:33:46.920 --> 01:33:49.920
<v Speaker 2>terrible things. We have an interview with a man who

1476
01:33:50.039 --> 01:33:53.800
<v Speaker 2>is likely diagnosed as a psychopath, as well as an

1477
01:33:53.960 --> 01:34:01.560
<v Speaker 2>actual Unsolved Mystery case. So make sure to come next

1478
01:34:01.600 --> 01:34:07.279
<v Speaker 2>week for episode two. And I am going to read

1479
01:34:07.319 --> 01:34:13.760
<v Speaker 2>you so this This review comes from someone named Cha.

1480
01:34:14.039 --> 01:34:18.039
<v Speaker 2>So the title of review reads, so good quote the

1481
01:34:18.079 --> 01:34:21.479
<v Speaker 2>show I did not know I was missing and needed.

1482
01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:24.199
<v Speaker 1>I love it so much. Thank you cha.

1483
01:34:24.319 --> 01:34:27.359
<v Speaker 2>The next episode the next review, I'm actually going to

1484
01:34:27.439 --> 01:34:30.119
<v Speaker 2>read it even though it's only a four star review

1485
01:34:30.159 --> 01:34:34.359
<v Speaker 2>and not a five star review, because I'm hoping that

1486
01:34:34.399 --> 01:34:38.720
<v Speaker 2>we can win this person back over. So the review

1487
01:34:38.840 --> 01:34:43.119
<v Speaker 2>comes from someone named quit legal w H I T

1488
01:34:43.119 --> 01:34:48.560
<v Speaker 2>T L E G oh it so wit legit wit legit.

1489
01:34:49.279 --> 01:34:52.920
<v Speaker 2>I love you, and I hope that you'll reconsider our review.

1490
01:34:53.960 --> 01:34:58.439
<v Speaker 2>So the podcast title or the review title says good

1491
01:34:58.680 --> 01:35:01.920
<v Speaker 2>and it is four out of five stars. Really good

1492
01:35:01.960 --> 01:35:05.960
<v Speaker 2>material with updates on old Unsolved Mysteries. Just need to come.

1493
01:35:06.399 --> 01:35:09.079
<v Speaker 2>Just need to cut out some of the ADHD chit

1494
01:35:09.159 --> 01:35:12.159
<v Speaker 2>chat that goes off the rails and they sometimes interrupt

1495
01:35:12.159 --> 01:35:15.239
<v Speaker 2>each other and go off on tangents. You are correct,

1496
01:35:15.399 --> 01:35:18.239
<v Speaker 2>we do do that, and I'm sorry, but that is

1497
01:35:18.720 --> 01:35:21.239
<v Speaker 2>just if you were sitting hanging out and talking with

1498
01:35:21.279 --> 01:35:24.279
<v Speaker 2>me and Ben, that is what would happen. But the

1499
01:35:24.319 --> 01:35:27.439
<v Speaker 2>stories presented are really interesting. You guys are doing a

1500
01:35:27.479 --> 01:35:31.000
<v Speaker 2>great job. Amazing idea for a podcast, good material. Just

1501
01:35:31.159 --> 01:35:34.199
<v Speaker 2>try to tell the story more and trim the fat

1502
01:35:34.439 --> 01:35:36.760
<v Speaker 2>sort of speak. I feel like we've trimmed some of

1503
01:35:36.760 --> 01:35:37.359
<v Speaker 2>the fats and.

1504
01:35:37.520 --> 01:35:41.439
<v Speaker 1>Calling us fat. Hopefully they're.

1505
01:35:42.880 --> 01:35:44.720
<v Speaker 2>To us listening to us and they haven't given up.

1506
01:35:44.760 --> 01:35:49.359
<v Speaker 2>So if that review, I am so sorry. We have

1507
01:35:49.680 --> 01:35:54.199
<v Speaker 2>actually try to cut some of the ADHD chit chat down,

1508
01:35:54.800 --> 01:35:57.119
<v Speaker 2>but there are some episodes that are better than the others.

1509
01:35:57.119 --> 01:35:57.920
<v Speaker 1>All right, last one.

1510
01:35:57.960 --> 01:36:01.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm grateful for the forced I'm grateful for the four

1511
01:36:01.760 --> 01:36:04.920
<v Speaker 2>stars too, but I would love you even more. Drop

1512
01:36:05.000 --> 01:36:08.279
<v Speaker 2>us a five star. You don't even have to update

1513
01:36:08.319 --> 01:36:11.039
<v Speaker 2>your thing five stars. Send me a DM and I'll

1514
01:36:11.079 --> 01:36:12.600
<v Speaker 2>send you some stickers in the mail.

1515
01:36:13.199 --> 01:36:16.640
<v Speaker 1>All right. The title of the review.

1516
01:36:16.359 --> 01:36:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Says love it, and this is from don't sign up

1517
01:36:20.039 --> 01:36:23.119
<v Speaker 2>nine nine nine and all it reads of the body

1518
01:36:23.119 --> 01:36:25.560
<v Speaker 2>of the review is can't get enough.

1519
01:36:27.439 --> 01:36:27.840
<v Speaker 1>There you go.

1520
01:36:28.479 --> 01:36:33.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So if you guys haven't already, please leave us

1521
01:36:33.600 --> 01:36:35.840
<v Speaker 2>a five star reading a review wherever you listen to

1522
01:36:35.880 --> 01:36:41.359
<v Speaker 2>your podcast or comment in the comment section below on Spotify,

1523
01:36:41.960 --> 01:36:44.600
<v Speaker 2>and I will read it out loud.

1524
01:36:44.319 --> 01:36:46.720
<v Speaker 1>So we can all hear it. All right.

1525
01:36:47.479 --> 01:36:51.960
<v Speaker 2>For the people that don't like the chitty chat or silly,

1526
01:36:52.039 --> 01:36:55.039
<v Speaker 2>funny question time with Ben, now is your time to leave.

1527
01:36:55.439 --> 01:36:57.199
<v Speaker 2>And for the rest of us Ben instead of an

1528
01:36:57.279 --> 01:37:00.439
<v Speaker 2>actual question today, I wrote down a few Actually got

1529
01:37:00.439 --> 01:37:03.600
<v Speaker 2>this idea from one of my favorite podcasts, which is

1530
01:37:03.920 --> 01:37:09.800
<v Speaker 2>the history podcast The Old Timy Podcast with Norman Caruso

1531
01:37:11.319 --> 01:37:15.840
<v Speaker 2>and Kristen Pitts Caruso. They did this on one of

1532
01:37:15.840 --> 01:37:18.000
<v Speaker 2>their chitty chat times and I thought this was fun

1533
01:37:18.039 --> 01:37:21.560
<v Speaker 2>and I wanted to ask you the same questions. Do

1534
01:37:21.640 --> 01:37:28.119
<v Speaker 2>you know what the slang word chopped means?

1535
01:37:28.760 --> 01:37:31.520
<v Speaker 1>Chopped m M, it's a It's.

1536
01:37:31.840 --> 01:37:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Really a word that is being used now in slang, chopped.

1537
01:37:38.199 --> 01:37:42.720
<v Speaker 1>Do you know what it means? I can honestly say,

1538
01:37:43.039 --> 01:37:49.800
<v Speaker 1>you just what make a guess chopped up that that

1539
01:37:49.920 --> 01:37:54.479
<v Speaker 1>don't track that don't track. Sure, okay, am I right?

1540
01:37:55.520 --> 01:37:58.600
<v Speaker 1>And no, not even a little bit.

1541
01:37:59.119 --> 01:38:05.720
<v Speaker 2>So chop means quote being unattractive or undesirable can sometimes

1542
01:38:05.760 --> 01:38:11.840
<v Speaker 2>also refer to getting hung out to dry. So I

1543
01:38:11.960 --> 01:38:15.640
<v Speaker 2>got in a sentence for you quote, I'm having such

1544
01:38:15.720 --> 01:38:16.680
<v Speaker 2>a bad hair day.

1545
01:38:16.880 --> 01:38:22.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm so chopped. Well, I'm chopped, you're chopped. I am

1546
01:38:22.600 --> 01:38:27.600
<v Speaker 1>a chopped guy. All right, you're ready for your next one? Yeah?

1547
01:38:27.840 --> 01:38:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Caught in four K? What? M hm? Caught? Been caught

1548
01:38:33.079 --> 01:38:37.600
<v Speaker 1>in four K? I mean, I'm gonna guess like you've

1549
01:38:37.600 --> 01:38:41.000
<v Speaker 1>been caught in the act. All right, I'll give that

1550
01:38:41.079 --> 01:38:43.199
<v Speaker 1>to you. But I have never heard this.

1551
01:38:43.359 --> 01:38:47.279
<v Speaker 2>Okay, someone that's been caught in the act usually online

1552
01:38:47.359 --> 01:38:52.920
<v Speaker 2>with some sort of proof or quote. Having the receipts receipts, Okay.

1553
01:38:52.680 --> 01:38:55.319
<v Speaker 1>Receipts is also kind. I think I used that. I

1554
01:38:55.439 --> 01:39:01.359
<v Speaker 1>think I used receipts in this episode. Very good callback. Yeah,

1555
01:39:01.479 --> 01:39:02.319
<v Speaker 1>that's so good.

1556
01:39:02.520 --> 01:39:04.279
<v Speaker 2>If I'm going to run for political office, I have

1557
01:39:04.359 --> 01:39:04.600
<v Speaker 2>to have.

1558
01:39:06.079 --> 01:39:08.119
<v Speaker 1>I forgot where I brought that up.

1559
01:39:08.199 --> 01:39:10.840
<v Speaker 2>But all right, this one, I will be shocked if

1560
01:39:10.880 --> 01:39:11.840
<v Speaker 2>you know what this one is.

1561
01:39:13.119 --> 01:39:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Glazing glazing m hmmm. Uh, I'm going to guess you're

1562
01:39:21.000 --> 01:39:27.079
<v Speaker 1>like you're fluffing the story, like because glazing is like

1563
01:39:27.159 --> 01:39:30.279
<v Speaker 1>you're you're putting something over Like me. I think I'm

1564
01:39:30.279 --> 01:39:35.880
<v Speaker 1>a glazed donut because I love a donut, and glazing

1565
01:39:36.000 --> 01:39:42.319
<v Speaker 1>means you're you're not telling the whole truth or you're exaggerating.

1566
01:39:42.479 --> 01:39:45.159
<v Speaker 1>I'll give that one to you. Round them fluff, dude.

1567
01:39:45.199 --> 01:39:48.159
<v Speaker 1>I am so good at this. I've never heard this either.

1568
01:39:48.840 --> 01:39:51.680
<v Speaker 2>Hype somebody or something up.

1569
01:39:51.920 --> 01:39:54.720
<v Speaker 1>You're glazing. That's a pretty easy one to put together.

1570
01:39:55.199 --> 01:39:58.000
<v Speaker 1>I will actually tell you what I've never heard that.

1571
01:39:58.720 --> 01:39:59.319
<v Speaker 1>I did not.

1572
01:40:00.479 --> 01:40:02.439
<v Speaker 2>I could not figure out what they were talking about.

1573
01:40:02.520 --> 01:40:05.119
<v Speaker 2>So I'm the old person in this one. Yeah, you

1574
01:40:05.159 --> 01:40:05.479
<v Speaker 2>got it.

1575
01:40:05.520 --> 01:40:07.199
<v Speaker 1>Well that's because you weren't thinking of a glaze.

1576
01:40:07.319 --> 01:40:10.039
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't thinking of a clays dot. You are correct,

1577
01:40:10.359 --> 01:40:17.640
<v Speaker 2>all right, left on red, left on red? Okay, So

1578
01:40:17.800 --> 01:40:21.439
<v Speaker 2>if you turn left on a red, because here's the thing,

1579
01:40:21.680 --> 01:40:26.479
<v Speaker 2>you're allowed to turn right on a red or red light.

1580
01:40:27.359 --> 01:40:31.159
<v Speaker 2>If you do left on a red, that means you're

1581
01:40:31.159 --> 01:40:36.600
<v Speaker 2>in the wrong. So in that world, so you you're wrong,

1582
01:40:39.760 --> 01:40:42.319
<v Speaker 2>or you you cut people off, you you did something wrong.

1583
01:40:44.159 --> 01:40:45.239
<v Speaker 1>Come on, so.

1584
01:40:45.560 --> 01:40:49.399
<v Speaker 2>Left on red in all fairness is l E F

1585
01:40:49.520 --> 01:40:53.720
<v Speaker 2>T on r E E D left on red, which

1586
01:40:53.760 --> 01:40:54.640
<v Speaker 2>means that you.

1587
01:40:56.000 --> 01:40:59.399
<v Speaker 1>Text somebody they saw it, you didn't, you got it.

1588
01:40:59.800 --> 01:41:03.159
<v Speaker 1>You have to give me if it come on you.

1589
01:41:04.640 --> 01:41:07.520
<v Speaker 1>I actually love that you went where you did.

1590
01:41:07.680 --> 01:41:09.760
<v Speaker 2>I did not even think about until I said that

1591
01:41:09.840 --> 01:41:13.800
<v Speaker 2>out loud, because in the English language left and read

1592
01:41:14.520 --> 01:41:16.399
<v Speaker 2>are spelled two different.

1593
01:41:16.119 --> 01:41:18.479
<v Speaker 1>Ways and have word how is left have spelled again.

1594
01:41:18.279 --> 01:41:20.319
<v Speaker 2>In this I guess L E F T. So you're

1595
01:41:20.319 --> 01:41:23.560
<v Speaker 2>still left on red. But but you're either burning left

1596
01:41:23.720 --> 01:41:28.399
<v Speaker 2>or whether you've just left somebody. Okay, yeah, left on red.

1597
01:41:29.239 --> 01:41:30.720
<v Speaker 1>It just means you didn't answer back.

1598
01:41:30.920 --> 01:41:32.560
<v Speaker 2>It means and they saw that you did it, and

1599
01:41:32.600 --> 01:41:34.159
<v Speaker 2>you were like, man, not worth my time to risk.

1600
01:41:34.239 --> 01:41:37.000
<v Speaker 1>This is why you don't put that you read text messages.

1601
01:41:37.600 --> 01:41:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Ben has his receipts, has turned his red seeds off.

1602
01:41:42.199 --> 01:41:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Here's the thing and here's the other thing.

1603
01:41:44.159 --> 01:41:45.920
<v Speaker 2>I also know that my husband I watch on his

1604
01:41:46.000 --> 01:41:48.680
<v Speaker 2>wrist that texts that buzzes.

1605
01:41:48.239 --> 01:41:49.680
<v Speaker 1>When I intentionally.

1606
01:41:50.079 --> 01:41:52.279
<v Speaker 2>There are multiple times that I've texted me and said,

1607
01:41:52.479 --> 01:41:53.800
<v Speaker 2>I know you know I'm texting you.

1608
01:41:53.880 --> 01:41:55.760
<v Speaker 1>I know that you can see this, Okay, but in

1609
01:41:56.159 --> 01:41:59.439
<v Speaker 1>all fairness, I work, you work in the middle of nowhere. Yes,

1610
01:41:59.520 --> 01:42:01.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't have a lot of cellf service where I work.

1611
01:42:01.840 --> 01:42:05.439
<v Speaker 1>That is true, but I also turn that off because

1612
01:42:05.520 --> 01:42:08.000
<v Speaker 1>I intentionally do not text people back.

1613
01:42:08.880 --> 01:42:11.479
<v Speaker 2>I know you don't. You like to leave people on red.

1614
01:42:12.079 --> 01:42:15.680
<v Speaker 2>I do, which means you made the wrong You turned

1615
01:42:15.720 --> 01:42:17.239
<v Speaker 2>left on red when you weren't supposed to.

1616
01:42:17.319 --> 01:42:19.319
<v Speaker 1>I'm fine with that. In the wrong. I'm fine with that.

1617
01:42:19.479 --> 01:42:20.279
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's go.

1618
01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Maybe that's going to be the new slang. Left on

1619
01:42:23.560 --> 01:42:28.000
<v Speaker 2>red means you're in the wrong. I'm starting it, you're

1620
01:42:28.039 --> 01:42:31.920
<v Speaker 2>starting it. Okay, this one's pretty easy. I think you'll

1621
01:42:31.960 --> 01:42:36.159
<v Speaker 2>get this one. This will be the last one for today. Slaps,

1622
01:42:37.760 --> 01:42:40.640
<v Speaker 2>slaps h Do you want me to spell it for you?

1623
01:42:41.399 --> 01:42:41.720
<v Speaker 1>Sure?

1624
01:42:42.279 --> 01:42:46.640
<v Speaker 2>S l a ps slaps, I don't know.

1625
01:42:46.720 --> 01:42:51.119
<v Speaker 1>You insulted me? Oh, I mean slap? Make Will Smith

1626
01:42:51.159 --> 01:42:55.840
<v Speaker 1>move sort of thing? Yeah, Will Smith? Who was it?

1627
01:42:56.840 --> 01:42:58.039
<v Speaker 1>Chris Rock? Chris Rock?

1628
01:42:58.159 --> 01:42:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

1629
01:42:59.239 --> 01:43:02.680
<v Speaker 1>Slaps I mean because in the medieval days, if you

1630
01:43:02.720 --> 01:43:05.479
<v Speaker 1>wanted to duel someone, you them.

1631
01:43:05.560 --> 01:43:08.199
<v Speaker 2>That is true with your glove. So it's a sign

1632
01:43:08.239 --> 01:43:14.680
<v Speaker 2>of aggression, an insult. Am I right, No, it's actually opposite.

1633
01:43:14.680 --> 01:43:19.600
<v Speaker 2>When something's really great. That new song slaps, that's the

1634
01:43:19.960 --> 01:43:23.119
<v Speaker 2>way you look in them wranglers slaps.

1635
01:43:25.920 --> 01:43:27.920
<v Speaker 1>I shouldn't say this, those cheeks slap.

1636
01:43:28.640 --> 01:43:31.319
<v Speaker 2>No, you cannot say that. That's a very different term,

1637
01:43:31.439 --> 01:43:36.279
<v Speaker 2>Benjamin David. But yeah, okay, so.

1638
01:43:36.199 --> 01:43:43.600
<v Speaker 1>You got I mean you, how many did we do? One, two, three, four?

1639
01:43:43.640 --> 01:43:46.520
<v Speaker 1>We did five? And I got two out of the five? Right?

1640
01:43:46.720 --> 01:43:50.039
<v Speaker 2>You got caught in four K and glazing? Correct, you

1641
01:43:50.159 --> 01:43:56.199
<v Speaker 2>missed chopped left on red and slaps? All right, all right,

1642
01:43:56.439 --> 01:43:58.640
<v Speaker 2>okay guys, well.

1643
01:43:57.960 --> 01:43:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Those cheeks slapped, those cheek slap.

1644
01:44:00.119 --> 01:44:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Make sure to join us again here next week when

1645
01:44:03.840 --> 01:44:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Ben and I bring you the second half of a

1646
01:44:07.039 --> 01:44:09.159
<v Speaker 2>Diabolical Mind.

1647
01:44:09.279 --> 01:44:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Now are we still on this freaking Episode three of

1648
01:44:17.199 --> 01:44:18.359
<v Speaker 1>Console Mysteries.

1649
01:44:18.560 --> 01:44:22.960
<v Speaker 2>Bye,