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<v Speaker 1>You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking

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<v Speaker 1>killers in true crime history and the authors that have

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<v Speaker 1>written about them Gaesy Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK. Every

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<v Speaker 1>week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and

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<v Speaker 1>infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,

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<v Speaker 1>journalist and author Dan Zufanski.

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<v Speaker 2>Good Evening.

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<v Speaker 3>This latest collection from true crime master Michael Benson looks

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<v Speaker 3>at some of the ghastliest murders in Rochester, New York's history.

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<v Speaker 3>One of them takes place in Genesee County, but it's

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<v Speaker 3>a good one. Stories include the Davis Street Fiend, the

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<v Speaker 3>murder of Tesse Keating Shallow Grave at Holy Sepulcher, the

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<v Speaker 3>murder of Anna Schumacher, the Lyndon Lunatic, the murders of

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<v Speaker 3>Ruth Francis Kimball, George and Hattie Walley, and Benjamin Phillips,

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<v Speaker 3>of Bondage and Bullets, the murder of Gertrude Smith, Trail

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<v Speaker 3>of Blood, the murder of George Hickey and the j

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<v Speaker 3>Street Axe Man, The murders of Millie Marcucci and Francesca Kotogno,

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<v Speaker 3>plus updates on three cases. Benson has written about in

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<v Speaker 3>the past cold cases that are cold no More. Kathleen Krauzneck,

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<v Speaker 3>Wendy Jerome, and Victoria Johnson. The book that we're featuring

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<v Speaker 3>this evening is Shallow Graves, Ghastly Murders, Rochester, New York,

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<v Speaker 3>with my special guest, best selling author Michael Benson. Welcome

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<v Speaker 3>back to the program, and thank you very much for

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<v Speaker 3>this interview. Michael Benson.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Dan, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much, and congratulations on this latest book,

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<v Speaker 3>Shallow Graves, Ghastly Murders, Rochester, New York.

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<v Speaker 1>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks, it's a good one. It'll keep you awake in

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<v Speaker 2>the middle of the night.

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<v Speaker 3>Tell us about just a little bit about the origins

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<v Speaker 3>of this book and the stories that you chose for

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<v Speaker 3>this Well, sure.

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<v Speaker 2>I think one of the sad things about this book

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<v Speaker 2>is that it takes place some of the stories at

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<v Speaker 2>least take place at the beginning of the twentieth century,

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<v Speaker 2>when the naivete of Rochester citizens was such that they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't really know that danger was out there. We have

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<v Speaker 2>one of the first murders of a young woman ever

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<v Speaker 2>in the city of Rochester. She walks alone into a

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<v Speaker 2>dark area in the inner city after you know there

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<v Speaker 2>are no street lights, has no sense that she's walking

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<v Speaker 2>to a dangerous situation because nothing bad had ever happened

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<v Speaker 2>to a woman walking alone at night before. Another story

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<v Speaker 2>takes place in a cemetery during broad daylight on a Sunday.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, bad things could happen anywhere at any time.

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<v Speaker 2>And these were all hard, hard lessons for citizens, for

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<v Speaker 2>civilized people to learn. Today. Of course we take it

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<v Speaker 2>off for granted. Back then you had to learn one

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<v Speaker 2>murder at a time, what not to do.

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<v Speaker 3>We spoke earlier, and we're going to discuss three particular

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<v Speaker 3>stories in this book and then also talk about something

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<v Speaker 3>you call the updates. Let's talk about the first story

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<v Speaker 3>that we want to discuss, the David Street fiend, the

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<v Speaker 3>murder of Tessie Keating, and also your connection to Davis

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<v Speaker 3>Street in Rochester. Tell us about that fascinating connection.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, when I was a kid, my paternal grandmother,

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<v Speaker 2>Naomi Lopez, owned a bar in the inner city of

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<v Speaker 2>Rochester with her then husband, Gregory Lopez, and it was

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<v Speaker 2>on a seedy little street called Davis Street, which had

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<v Speaker 2>no major outlets on either end. It dead ended at

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<v Speaker 2>one end and at the other end it ran into

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<v Speaker 2>another side street, so it was a back back street,

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<v Speaker 2>and to have a bar that functioned there meant that

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<v Speaker 2>you were going to get some sketchy clientele. And when

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<v Speaker 2>I visited as a little kid, there was always the

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<v Speaker 2>worry that I would see or hear something I shouldn't.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember that feeling, although I don't remember seeing and

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<v Speaker 2>hearing anything I shouldn't, just the worry that that would happen,

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<v Speaker 2>and the clientele worked kind of bummy. So when I

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<v Speaker 2>was doing research for this book and I found out

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<v Speaker 2>that really the first spectacular murder in Rochester history took

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<v Speaker 2>place on Davis Street, I said, you know that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of figures. It didn't prize me at all. It had

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<v Speaker 2>never been a nice section of town, and back at

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<v Speaker 2>the turn of the century it was known as a

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<v Speaker 2>place where gangs hung out.

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<v Speaker 3>Tell us about this huge billboard at the corner of

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<v Speaker 3>Smith Street and Union Street and what that board was

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<v Speaker 3>conveying at that time.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, if you go there today, there's a building there,

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<v Speaker 2>so it confuses the issue. And plus the railroad tracks

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<v Speaker 2>that run alongside Davis Street now are on a bridge

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<v Speaker 2>that goes over Union Street. But at the time there

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<v Speaker 2>was a railroad crossing there. They didn't have electronic railroad gates.

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<v Speaker 2>They would clang klang, klang, klang. So there was a

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<v Speaker 2>guy there with a flag. And at the corner of

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<v Speaker 2>Smith and Union Union was a main drag. There was

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<v Speaker 2>a huge billboard that advertised whatever it was advertising at

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<v Speaker 2>the time. But there was an area behind the billboard,

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<v Speaker 2>away from the main street, where it was pitch black,

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<v Speaker 2>dark and possibly the most secluded and dangerous spot in

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<v Speaker 2>the entire city.

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<v Speaker 3>What was this little vacant lot known for a haven

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<v Speaker 3>for who?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean? There were ruffians I guess that that was

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<v Speaker 2>the word for teenage gangs. There was a gang called

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<v Speaker 2>the Goat Hill Gang that was in charge there. They

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<v Speaker 2>weren't serial killers or anything like that, but they would

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<v Speaker 2>rob you and beat people up and have fights with

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<v Speaker 2>other gangs. And it was certainly if it had been

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<v Speaker 2>even nineteen fifty, a young lady would have known not

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<v Speaker 2>to go there after dark. But our heroine here, Theresa

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<v Speaker 2>tesse Keating, she's twenty six years old. She's not a kid,

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<v Speaker 2>but she has no clue that she's running an errand

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<v Speaker 2>for her sister, has no sense that this is probably

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<v Speaker 2>something they would best wait till morning.

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<v Speaker 3>You described a stretch of Dava Street as especially dark

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<v Speaker 3>for some reason.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they had just started putting in electric street lights

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<v Speaker 2>and they had not gotten around to Dava Street. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>I would wager that Dava Street would want to It

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<v Speaker 2>would have been one of the last streets to get

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<v Speaker 2>street lights. I'm guessing that that was moved up after

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<v Speaker 2>the murder. Generally that you know, these things are done

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<v Speaker 2>one life too late. They were switching from kerosene to

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<v Speaker 2>electric and the guys who lit the kerosene lamps were

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<v Speaker 2>being laid off because there were electric lights coming in

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<v Speaker 2>and the electric lights hadn't got to Dava Street yet,

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<v Speaker 2>So Dava Street was completely dark.

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<v Speaker 3>What was the reason for Tessie Teresa venturing into this

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<v Speaker 3>area in the first place.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, she was She worked at a camera works manufacturer

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<v Speaker 2>for Rochesterians. The place was at the current side of

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<v Speaker 2>the Kodak Tower. Everybody knows where that is. And she

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<v Speaker 2>lived in a quiet residential neighborhood. And she lived with

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<v Speaker 2>her widowed father and two sisters, and a third sister

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<v Speaker 2>had recently moved to Rochester and was looking for a housekeeper.

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<v Speaker 2>TESSI read an ad in the paper on her own

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<v Speaker 2>and to do her sister a favor, she went to

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<v Speaker 2>visit the prospective servant of missus Alice Herbert at her

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<v Speaker 2>home in her rooming house on Davia Street. It was drizzling.

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<v Speaker 2>She put on her rubbers and grabbed an umbrella on

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<v Speaker 2>her way out the door. She left the house at

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<v Speaker 2>seven ten or seven fifteen, somewhere in that neighborhood. It's

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<v Speaker 2>November twentieth, nineteen hundred, technically nineteenth century, I guess, and

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<v Speaker 2>unaware that her destination was dangerous. The walk should have

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<v Speaker 2>taken seven to ten minutes, but at first everybody thought

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<v Speaker 2>that that witnesses were lying because they said she arrived

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<v Speaker 2>at eight thirty, which left a missing hour. And we

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<v Speaker 2>never get a good answer for why there's an hour

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<v Speaker 2>missing in the story. I was talking to my cousin

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<v Speaker 2>over the weekend, and she had read the book, and

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<v Speaker 2>she said she thinks that she just stood on Union

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<v Speaker 2>Street and looked down Davis Street and spent a good

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<v Speaker 2>forty five minutes saying do I really want to go

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<v Speaker 2>down there? Do I really want to go down there?

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<v Speaker 2>And eventually decided that she shouldn't be scared of the dark.

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<v Speaker 2>She was an adult and decided to go down there,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's that would explain that the missing time.

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<v Speaker 3>This missing time. One of the people that says that

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<v Speaker 3>the time that she sees Tessie was eight thirty and

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<v Speaker 3>that's the owner of this, oh, the landlady at this

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<v Speaker 3>at one twenty seven Davis Street, and that's a Missus

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<v Speaker 3>Norah Crowe. So tell us about this landlady and the

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<v Speaker 3>house that she controls.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Missus Crow as a rooming house, she doesn't she

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<v Speaker 2>has new background checks on her clients, and there are

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of ne'er do wells living there, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think the idea was to protect them from a police

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<v Speaker 2>interrogation because who knows what they'd done recently or what

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<v Speaker 2>the police were looking for. As it turned out, nobody

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<v Speaker 2>who lived in her house had anything to do with

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<v Speaker 2>the murder. But the instinct to not talk to the

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<v Speaker 2>police and to maybe lie to help her tenants was automatic,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think she got herself in a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of trouble for that. But it was the house where

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<v Speaker 2>the prospective housekeeper lived, and Tessy did make it there.

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<v Speaker 2>She was told that Missus Herbert was not in, so

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<v Speaker 2>she turned around and started walking home. And she never

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<v Speaker 2>made it back to Union Street.

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<v Speaker 3>So who was first alerted to her disappearance and what

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<v Speaker 3>do they do and who do they speak to?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, at ten thirty the next morning, seven year old

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<v Speaker 2>Philip Spuck of Union Street. He's looking for scrap metal

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<v Speaker 2>in the abandoned yard behind the billboard. Tends to be

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit of a dumping ground, so he's scavenging

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<v Speaker 2>around there. He ran across a woman's hat, and then

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<v Speaker 2>an umbrella, and then a woman's rubber overshoe. She picked

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<v Speaker 2>up the He picked up the items and took them

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<v Speaker 2>home and showed him to his mom, and she was

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<v Speaker 2>most impressed by the rubber, so she sent him back

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<v Speaker 2>to see if he could find the other one and

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<v Speaker 2>instructed him to take his older brother, Edward with him. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>they waited out a brief downpour, which which turns out

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<v Speaker 2>to be a little bit important. There's a huge downpour.

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<v Speaker 2>They wait for the rain to stop, and then they

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<v Speaker 2>returned to the spot behind the billboard. And once they

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<v Speaker 2>get there, Edward, the older brother, who's nineteen, I think

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<v Speaker 2>something like that, he sees something in the weeds and

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<v Speaker 2>he immediately sends his brother home, you know, go home

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<v Speaker 2>to mom. Now he could tell it's a young woman,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's hoping, against hope that she's only so it

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<v Speaker 2>goes over there to see if she's okay. He sees

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<v Speaker 2>blood in white froth coming from her nose and mouth.

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<v Speaker 2>Her tongue's protruding, so he knows her. Her face is bruised,

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<v Speaker 2>her thighs are open, there's finger marks on her throat.

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<v Speaker 2>She's dressed in a brown bicycle skirt, a pink shirtwaist,

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<v Speaker 2>and a brown fedora hat. Registering the horror, he starts

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<v Speaker 2>to scream and runs down Smith Street, runs until he

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<v Speaker 2>finds a cop walking the beat. It turns out its

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<v Speaker 2>detective William Maguire from nearby Hartford Street, and together they

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<v Speaker 2>returned to the body. Police combed the area. Body's taken

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<v Speaker 2>to the Morgan autopsy. She had been raped, a word

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<v Speaker 2>that didn't appear in the newspapers back then. They said

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<v Speaker 2>she was outraged. Cause of death with strangulation, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was the twenty ninth murder in Monroe County history, but

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<v Speaker 2>the first to be a woman killed by a stranger.

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<v Speaker 2>Most of your murders were guys working on the Erie

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<v Speaker 2>Canal who got drunk and somebody hit somebody, they fell

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<v Speaker 2>in the water, that kind of thing. So the previous

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eight murders are less newsworthy. This one's shocking. This

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<v Speaker 2>one just shocks the city, the surrounding area. That probably

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<v Speaker 2>it made the news around the country because this was

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<v Speaker 2>just too awful to even think about Chris today. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it's still considered really awful, but it's not it's not

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<v Speaker 2>mind boggling anymore. Police rapidly identified the body. Tessie's family

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<v Speaker 2>had reported her missing at one am. Police wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>know what type of girl tests he was, and they

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<v Speaker 2>said she was never the kind to cause any worry,

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<v Speaker 2>which meant she was a good girl. Police went to

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<v Speaker 2>the roaming house and they talked to Missus Crowe. Missus

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<v Speaker 2>Crow told some resemblance of the truth. She said that

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<v Speaker 2>that tess He'd arrived and been sent away. Missus Crow

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<v Speaker 2>could not answer the questions without seeming like she was

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<v Speaker 2>hinky as the as the cops like to say now.

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<v Speaker 2>It took police many man hours to sort it out,

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<v Speaker 2>but they eventually figured out that all of the people

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<v Speaker 2>Missus Crow was lying to protect had nothing to do

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<v Speaker 2>with the murder. Their whereabouts, once pieced together, was just

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<v Speaker 2>a mad jumble of I went to one bar, had

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of drinks, went to another bar, had a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of drinks. I got to fight with this guy

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<v Speaker 2>and that I want to do another bar, had a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of drinks and it was like and that. Came

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<v Speaker 2>home and I fell asleep. Nobody was in any condition

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<v Speaker 2>to rape and murder a woman down by Union Street. Now,

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00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.200
<v Speaker 2>the case was sensational, and it brought out the loonies,

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00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:55.519
<v Speaker 2>oddballs confessed to things they didn't do. And that was

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<v Speaker 2>another thing I think we take for granted today that

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<v Speaker 2>a if a murder is horrible enough, people will confess

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<v Speaker 2>to it even though they had nothing to do with it.

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<v Speaker 2>For reasons that escape me. It's a form of mental illness.

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<v Speaker 2>It was very, very frustrating. And to give you an

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<v Speaker 2>idea of how sensational, I guess is the word. The

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<v Speaker 2>murder was the first attempt at a requiem mass for

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<v Speaker 2>Tessie at Corpus Christi Church on East Main Street, still there,

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<v Speaker 2>big church in downtown Rochester. It had to be canceled

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<v Speaker 2>because of an inability to control the crowds, so Tessie's

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00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:37.399
<v Speaker 2>remains were buried in Holy Sepachal Cemetery, which we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to be talking more about later, without a ceremony, and

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<v Speaker 2>the mass was not offered until December fourth. Enough time

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<v Speaker 2>had passed that the funeral was peaceful, but there were

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00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.399
<v Speaker 2>still one hundred strangers there quietly paying their respects to

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<v Speaker 2>a young woman they only knew because of her notorious death.

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<v Speaker 2>And as it turns out, it was two and a

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<v Speaker 2>half years before police figured out what had happened to Tessie.

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<v Speaker 3>But there were arrests along the way, and there was

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00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:11.320
<v Speaker 3>a suspect named Fuller, and they believed that one of

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<v Speaker 3>the crucial principal clues that was found in among the

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00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:22.279
<v Speaker 3>body and other items was this silver Bengal. As you

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<v Speaker 3>explained later, it was not such an important clue.

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<v Speaker 2>No, No, As it turns out, it was one of

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<v Speaker 2>the first responders to the scene had dropped it there

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00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:35.879
<v Speaker 2>and it didn't have anything to do with the crime whatsoever. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>for two and a half years, it's nothing but frustration.

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<v Speaker 2>But on June ninth, nineteen oh three, a fellow named

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<v Speaker 2>August Russell, forty year old guy lived on Henrietta Street

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<v Speaker 2>in the city, was arrested on a tip from his wife.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is another quote. It strikes me as something

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<v Speaker 2>that you wouldn't find today. She said he was beating

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<v Speaker 2>me one day, and I said, you must be the

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00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:05.680
<v Speaker 2>man who killed the Keating girl. And he stopped hitting me,

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00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.039
<v Speaker 2>and he thought him at it, and he said, yes

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<v Speaker 2>I am. After that, I wormed the whole story out

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00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.759
<v Speaker 2>of him, bit by bit. Missus Russell said, this is casual.

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<v Speaker 2>He was beating me one day. There's a certain amount

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00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.079
<v Speaker 2>of wife beating was socially acceptable back then. Killing your

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00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:24.559
<v Speaker 2>wife that was crossing the line. But they were supposed

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<v Speaker 2>to obey like dogs. It said so right in the ceremony,

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00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:30.799
<v Speaker 2>so it was okay to whack him every once in

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00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.000
<v Speaker 2>a while. Anyway. Russell was arrested at the corner Broadway

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<v Speaker 2>in Monroe Avenue, and as one policeman engaged Russell on conversation,

284
00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:40.079
<v Speaker 2>pretending he could get him work on a farm mountain

285
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.920
<v Speaker 2>in the country, the other sneaked up behind Russell and

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00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:45.519
<v Speaker 2>clapped a heavy hand on his shoulder. I arrest you

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00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:49.400
<v Speaker 2>for the murder of Teresa Heating, and Russell bowed his

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00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:53.039
<v Speaker 2>head and said I didn't mean to kill her. As

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00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:57.039
<v Speaker 2>it turned out, Russell was a physically peculiar man. The

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00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:00.440
<v Speaker 2>upper portion of his skull was perfectly round, a fact

291
00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:03.920
<v Speaker 2>later confirmed by a doctor's calipers, and he loved to

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00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.640
<v Speaker 2>adorn that billiard ball head with ladies hats. He was

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00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.279
<v Speaker 2>five to five slight, with deep creases in his forehead,

294
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:16.680
<v Speaker 2>a nervous, fidgety disposition, and freakishly long arms that hung

295
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:19.240
<v Speaker 2>to with an inch of his knees. He had one

296
00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:21.960
<v Speaker 2>light blue eye and white dark brown eye, one dark

297
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.519
<v Speaker 2>brown eye, and walked through life with a perpetual squint.

298
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<v Speaker 2>Of course, they suspected this guy is another false confessor.

299
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<v Speaker 2>This guy's he even looks like a screwball. So Chief

300
00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:38.759
<v Speaker 2>Hayden of the Rochester Police introduced erroneous details about the crime,

301
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:43.240
<v Speaker 2>but Russell always corrected him. Russell led the policeman to

302
00:18:43.720 --> 00:18:47.079
<v Speaker 2>the billboard on Davis Street, pointed out the different spots

303
00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:50.119
<v Speaker 2>with unfailing accuracy, and he showed them the place on

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00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:53.680
<v Speaker 2>the sidewalk where he confronted the victim. He made the

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00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:58.119
<v Speaker 2>young woman he said an indecent proposal, and according to Russell,

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00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:03.839
<v Speaker 2>she replied, go away, you dirty loafer. That's a strong

307
00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:05.119
<v Speaker 2>language from a young lady.

308
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.319
<v Speaker 3>Back then, Absolutely, he.

309
00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:10.319
<v Speaker 2>Lost his temper, hit her on the temple and choked her,

310
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:12.759
<v Speaker 2>and when she was unconscious, he dragged her off the

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00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:16.319
<v Speaker 2>sidewalking into the vacant lot, and he said he remained

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00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:18.880
<v Speaker 2>in the lot with Tessi for three hours and left

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00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:23.440
<v Speaker 2>her around midnight. He was indicted day before Halloween nineteen

314
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:28.200
<v Speaker 2>oh three, pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. A

315
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:31.160
<v Speaker 2>commission was appointed to doctors and a lawyer to inquire

316
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:34.759
<v Speaker 2>about whether or not he understood the quality and the

317
00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:39.720
<v Speaker 2>wrongness of his crime. The hearings involved calling witnesses. Some

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00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.119
<v Speaker 2>men who knew Russell thought he was demented. Others, especially

319
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.480
<v Speaker 2>when discussing Russell's handling of money, thought him as sane.

320
00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:49.480
<v Speaker 2>As the day was long, all agreed that Russell was

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00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.880
<v Speaker 2>at his weirdest, went around women. On New Year's Eve

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00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.640
<v Speaker 2>nineteen oh three, the insanity panel declared Russell insane. He

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00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:01.119
<v Speaker 2>was taken to Madijuan State Insane Asylum, then new Facility,

324
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:06.039
<v Speaker 2>where he was confined until he would be confined until declared, saying,

325
00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:08.839
<v Speaker 2>of course, there was no guarantee that that would ever happen.

326
00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:13.640
<v Speaker 2>He said, Well, in Madiwan, he said, I am the

327
00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:17.680
<v Speaker 2>magic man. I hear music when you do not some

328
00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:20.480
<v Speaker 2>guy screamed in terror all night or yelled angrily in

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00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:24.039
<v Speaker 2>that place. But Russell was a laugher. He would laugh

330
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:27.759
<v Speaker 2>all night, and he did eventually get out, and some

331
00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:31.640
<v Speaker 2>say he relocated to the Catskills and died in Ulster County.

332
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:38.160
<v Speaker 3>That Jesus has an opportunity to stop to hear these messages. Now,

333
00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:42.000
<v Speaker 3>the next story we were going to discuss is shallow

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00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:46.799
<v Speaker 3>grave at Holy Sepulture. If that's the right pronounciation, A

335
00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:51.640
<v Speaker 3>sepulchercur yes for me. This is August nineteen oh nine,

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00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:57.640
<v Speaker 3>Anna Catherine Shoemaker, sixteen years old, found in a crudely

337
00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:05.359
<v Speaker 3>constructed graview right at the Holy Sulfitture Cemetery. And tell

338
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:08.319
<v Speaker 3>us the reason why she went to the cemetery in

339
00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:12.200
<v Speaker 3>the first place, and how she was found eventually there.

340
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.480
<v Speaker 2>You know this case as the most the richest and

341
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:21.960
<v Speaker 2>yet most horrible ironies. Here's a story of a young

342
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.400
<v Speaker 2>woman who is murdered in a cemetery. She's buried in

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00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.000
<v Speaker 2>the cemetery by her killer in a shallow grave, and

344
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:32.880
<v Speaker 2>then she's dug up from her shallow grave, and when

345
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:37.599
<v Speaker 2>she's finally buried for real, she's buried in the same cemetery,

346
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:43.240
<v Speaker 2>not only hundreds of yards from the scene of her murder.

347
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:46.279
<v Speaker 2>And I cannot think of another case like that. I'm

348
00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:48.960
<v Speaker 2>sure that there are may be others out there. I

349
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:50.920
<v Speaker 2>can't even think of another case of the murder in

350
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:54.039
<v Speaker 2>a cemetery at the moment, but certainly not in a

351
00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:57.799
<v Speaker 2>murder in a c in which the victim was then

352
00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:02.400
<v Speaker 2>buried at the same spot. It's Saturday, August seventh, nineteen

353
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.559
<v Speaker 2>oh nine. It's one o'clock in the afternoon. The temperature

354
00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:11.319
<v Speaker 2>is ninety two degrees. Humidity is uncomfortable and as preps.

355
00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:14.200
<v Speaker 2>Everybody knows by now ninety two degrees is the temperature

356
00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:18.200
<v Speaker 2>at which most murders are committed. Ninety one degrees, everybody's

357
00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:20.960
<v Speaker 2>a little bit calmer. Ninety three degrees, everybody gets a

358
00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:25.519
<v Speaker 2>little bit too hot to do anything physical. Sixteen year

359
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:29.279
<v Speaker 2>old Anna Catherine Schumacher she leaves her home on Katie Street.

360
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<v Speaker 2>Her mission is to groom and place sweet peas and

361
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:35.960
<v Speaker 2>asterniums from the flower garden behind her family home upon

362
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:40.039
<v Speaker 2>the graves of her father and sister. Her father recently

363
00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:42.759
<v Speaker 2>passed away. She had a sister who died as a baby.

364
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:46.200
<v Speaker 2>As babies often did back then. And its Holy Sepago's

365
00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Sepulcher Cemetery. They've got me doing it. Anna walked to

366
00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:53.799
<v Speaker 2>a streetcar stop from her house. She caught a car

367
00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:57.519
<v Speaker 2>downtown at the four Corners. She transferred to a shalot

368
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.319
<v Speaker 2>car that took her to the cemetery. And we know

369
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:02.880
<v Speaker 2>that she did this because a family friend and Missus Graham,

370
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:06.240
<v Speaker 2>saw Anna get off at the cemetery. And after that

371
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:10.640
<v Speaker 2>we don't know when she didn't return. On Saturday night,

372
00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:15.359
<v Speaker 2>her mother called police reported or missing, but very little

373
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:18.559
<v Speaker 2>attention was paid to the report. And his mother and

374
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:21.079
<v Speaker 2>sister went to the sixth Precinct and told the officer

375
00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Anna's missing, but they didn't take her seriously. They said,

376
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:28.319
<v Speaker 2>a lot of sixteen year old girls are out that

377
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:32.440
<v Speaker 2>late time was ten forty pm and Anna had been

378
00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:35.720
<v Speaker 2>gone for less than ten hours. Cop wanted to know

379
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.599
<v Speaker 2>if Anna was in the habit of staying out late. Now.

380
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:42.119
<v Speaker 2>The question greatly upset the women. He was questioning the

381
00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:49.759
<v Speaker 2>reputation the chastity of their baby. Anna. Sure, so they

382
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:55.000
<v Speaker 2>storm out. They get lanterns, get a carriage to drive

383
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.119
<v Speaker 2>them to the cemetery and they go looking for Anna.

384
00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:01.759
<v Speaker 2>They found fresh flowers at her father and sister's graves,

385
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:06.079
<v Speaker 2>tufts of unsightly grass trimmed with the scissors she brought along.

386
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:11.759
<v Speaker 2>Another unsuccessful scouring in the cemetery occurred and they split up.

387
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.519
<v Speaker 2>They canvassed the neighborhood, and then they got a lucky break.

388
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.759
<v Speaker 2>One man, a stranger, answered the door, said he hadn't

389
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:21.880
<v Speaker 2>seen Anna, but he offered a word of advice. If

390
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.640
<v Speaker 2>I were in your place, I'd get Constable stall Hand

391
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Baker of the Greece Police town of Greece next to Rochester. Today,

392
00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:32.720
<v Speaker 2>the cemetery's in the city that back then it was

393
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:34.920
<v Speaker 2>in the town. He won't give up the search if

394
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:37.720
<v Speaker 2>he dies in the attempt. If you can't find her,

395
00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:39.440
<v Speaker 2>you might as well give up. If he can't find her,

396
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:41.680
<v Speaker 2>you might as well give up. The advice turned out

397
00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:44.880
<v Speaker 2>to be very good, and Baker's first question was how

398
00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:48.920
<v Speaker 2>many times had Anna gone to that cemetery alone. It's

399
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.799
<v Speaker 2>considering the possibility that she might have been using flowers

400
00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:54.079
<v Speaker 2>on the grave as an excuse to meet a boy.

401
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:57.920
<v Speaker 2>This was the third time, and his brother John replied,

402
00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:03.559
<v Speaker 2>Now first Monday morning, Baker grabbed his colleague Otto Friedman

403
00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:06.160
<v Speaker 2>and and his brother John, and the three spoke to

404
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:09.640
<v Speaker 2>a groundskeeper who remembered seeing the girl at first in

405
00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:12.640
<v Speaker 2>the section where she was decorating graves, and later all

406
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.319
<v Speaker 2>the way to the east along the edge of the

407
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:18.720
<v Speaker 2>river gorge, perhaps picking wildflowers in the bushes. Along the

408
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:22.000
<v Speaker 2>gorge's edge, Baker saw drag marks on the ground, and

409
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:24.039
<v Speaker 2>then a patch of loose earth only feet from the

410
00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:27.799
<v Speaker 2>cliff the river two hundred feet below. The men had

411
00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:30.519
<v Speaker 2>no shovels that began digging with their with their hands,

412
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:33.319
<v Speaker 2>and after a few minutes they found a ribbon, and

413
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:36.119
<v Speaker 2>then the corner of a woman's garment. So they stopped

414
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.559
<v Speaker 2>and notified the sheriff and the coroner, and within the

415
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:42.920
<v Speaker 2>hour the body of Anna Shoemaker had been recovered. It

416
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:46.240
<v Speaker 2>lay face down with the feet doubled back so that

417
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:49.759
<v Speaker 2>it fit in a four foot long excavation. The left

418
00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:52.640
<v Speaker 2>cheek was bruised, and there was a fresh cut over

419
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.920
<v Speaker 2>the left eye. She was covered with bruises, most severely

420
00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:59.599
<v Speaker 2>on her chest. One breast was black and discolored. She'd

421
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:03.000
<v Speaker 2>been raped and murdered. The condition of the body indicated

422
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:06.160
<v Speaker 2>that she'd put up quite a battle. One of the

423
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.799
<v Speaker 2>key things they realized immediately was whoever buried in in

424
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:15.240
<v Speaker 2>that spot had a shovel, which would seem to rule

425
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:19.039
<v Speaker 2>out people who just passing through unless you're walking along

426
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:21.960
<v Speaker 2>the edge of the river carrying a shovel, which seems unlikely.

427
00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:27.519
<v Speaker 2>Last spring, I went to Rochester and I visited the spot,

428
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:30.799
<v Speaker 2>and it was not hard to figure out where it

429
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:34.240
<v Speaker 2>had the murder and the burying of Anna had taken place.

430
00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:37.920
<v Speaker 2>You go down down the side of a little hill

431
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:40.799
<v Speaker 2>and you're on a flat spot right next to the

432
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:44.279
<v Speaker 2>river gorge. There's no fence or anything. Take one wrong

433
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:46.359
<v Speaker 2>step and you're gonna fall to your death. And there's

434
00:26:46.359 --> 00:26:50.559
<v Speaker 2>no fence between that spot and the cemetery. You're supposed

435
00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:53.400
<v Speaker 2>to know not to go there. But once you're down

436
00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:57.680
<v Speaker 2>that little level, you can't be seen from anywhere else.

437
00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.000
<v Speaker 2>You can't be seen from the cemetery certainly can't be

438
00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:02.079
<v Speaker 2>seen by anybody down in the river, So you have

439
00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:05.759
<v Speaker 2>complete privacy. And you know, once I got there, I said, well,

440
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:07.440
<v Speaker 2>this is this is clearly the spot.

441
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:12.240
<v Speaker 3>Now, when she's found, what do they find in terms

442
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:16.680
<v Speaker 3>of signs of struggle and just the state of her

443
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:19.759
<v Speaker 3>body when found, she.

444
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Had put up a tremendous fight. Her body was covered

445
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:25.839
<v Speaker 2>with bruises. Her hyoid bone was broken, which indicated she

446
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:30.079
<v Speaker 2>had been manually strangulated. She had been strangled with a

447
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:33.279
<v Speaker 2>man's hands. Her body was taken to the morgue where

448
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:38.400
<v Speaker 2>an autopsy was performed. She died from suffocation, and particles

449
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.079
<v Speaker 2>were found under the victim's fingernails, which might have been

450
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:45.599
<v Speaker 2>the key to the case now, but back then it

451
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:49.480
<v Speaker 2>just meant that she had scratched her attacker. So they

452
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:54.119
<v Speaker 2>were looking for a man with visible scratches, obviously no

453
00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:57.160
<v Speaker 2>inkling that anything like DNA would ever be used to

454
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:02.000
<v Speaker 2>solve crimes. Three cemetery employer saw a man along the

455
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:05.119
<v Speaker 2>eastern edge where they found the girl, dressed in a

456
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:07.400
<v Speaker 2>blue suit and a straw hat, and when he saw

457
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.519
<v Speaker 2>that he was being observed, he ran away to the north.

458
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:13.440
<v Speaker 2>I walked fast at first, but then broke into a

459
00:28:13.480 --> 00:28:17.640
<v Speaker 2>trot and a full fledged run. The suspicious man vanished,

460
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:21.279
<v Speaker 2>never to be found if he ever existed. Another the

461
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:24.880
<v Speaker 2>reason that police were skeptical is that these stories came

462
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:31.079
<v Speaker 2>from cemetery employees who have shovels and would be suspects,

463
00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:33.319
<v Speaker 2>and if one of them was the killer. They may

464
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:36.720
<v Speaker 2>be covering up for him telling stories that weren't true.

465
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:39.799
<v Speaker 2>If they were telling the truth, I would have to

466
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:41.720
<v Speaker 2>think that the man who broke into a trot and

467
00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:43.960
<v Speaker 2>then a full run once he was observed in the

468
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.920
<v Speaker 2>area of the murder is your guy. It's got to

469
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:51.640
<v Speaker 2>be your guy. The search for the shovel turned out

470
00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:55.920
<v Speaker 2>to be successful. A deputy found a blood spattered shovel

471
00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:59.839
<v Speaker 2>in the cemetery's boiler room, another indication this is an

472
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.400
<v Speaker 2>inside job. Shovel, as it turned out, had been left

473
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:06.759
<v Speaker 2>out by a worker that Saturday morning after he developed

474
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:09.599
<v Speaker 2>blood poisoning from poison ivy and had to go home.

475
00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:14.319
<v Speaker 2>People died from poison ivy in nineteen oh nine, so

476
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.279
<v Speaker 2>in theory, anyone could have grabbed the shovel, and as

477
00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:20.039
<v Speaker 2>the boiler room wasn't locked, anyone could have stashed it. Still,

478
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:22.599
<v Speaker 2>you would need to know it was there and where

479
00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:26.039
<v Speaker 2>it was stored, so it's unlikely that anyone unfamiliar with

480
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:28.880
<v Speaker 2>the cemetery could have disposed of the shovel in that

481
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:33.960
<v Speaker 2>particular fashion. On Wednesday, August eleventh, and his funeral Mass

482
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:37.000
<v Speaker 2>was held at Saint Peter and Paul's Church, on West Maine,

483
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:41.359
<v Speaker 2>near Bull's Head against Center Town. The church was raised

484
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:43.559
<v Speaker 2>three years later and replaced with the church that still

485
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:48.680
<v Speaker 2>stands there. The pall bearers, heartbreakingly were sixteenage boys and

486
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:52.920
<v Speaker 2>his former classmates. After Mass, the young Paul black bearers

487
00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:56.640
<v Speaker 2>carried the white casket to a horse drawn hearse for

488
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.240
<v Speaker 2>the trip to Holy Sepulcher, which meant that the the

489
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:03.200
<v Speaker 2>scene of her death and her final resting spot were

490
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:07.039
<v Speaker 2>to be the same. And during the weeks and months

491
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:11.240
<v Speaker 2>that followed, many suspicious men were arrested, grilled and cut loose.

492
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:15.119
<v Speaker 2>False confessor is always a problem in high profile cases

493
00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:18.319
<v Speaker 2>needed to be debunked. Any poor soul with a scratched

494
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:21.200
<v Speaker 2>face or arm was dragged in and made to explain himself.

495
00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:26.519
<v Speaker 2>Hobo's were yanked off freight trains. And then there was

496
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:31.000
<v Speaker 2>the epic pursuit of a man came to be known

497
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:32.200
<v Speaker 2>as swale Man.

498
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:37.640
<v Speaker 3>Let's Jesus as an opportunity to stop to hear these messages.

499
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:43.359
<v Speaker 3>What is the theory behind the swale Man? What is

500
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.119
<v Speaker 3>exactly where is this man supposedly hiding?

501
00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, the first sighting is of nothing more outrageous than

502
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:57.880
<v Speaker 2>a man acting wild do you know what that means.

503
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:00.799
<v Speaker 2>If he was drunk, he was having some sort of episode.

504
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:06.519
<v Speaker 2>We're maybe a mile away from the cemetery and he's

505
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:11.079
<v Speaker 2>last seen running into a thickly foliaged swal I had

506
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:12.599
<v Speaker 2>to look up the word swell We don't use it

507
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:17.519
<v Speaker 2>much anymore. It's just a large area covered with swampy weeds.

508
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:22.079
<v Speaker 2>So a mob, a combination of law enforcement and self

509
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:27.720
<v Speaker 2>deputized neighbors, tried to surround the swale so then starve

510
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:31.279
<v Speaker 2>him out like a siege, even though there was no

511
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:35.119
<v Speaker 2>known connection between the murder and Swaleman. Again, if swell

512
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:38.640
<v Speaker 2>Man was real, he was never captured, but he remained

513
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:41.160
<v Speaker 2>a phantom seen for years, lurking in the shadows of

514
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:45.880
<v Speaker 2>frightened residences, of imagination, a boogeyman that haunted that area

515
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:51.160
<v Speaker 2>for generations, and sadly, the unsolved murder of Anna Schumacher

516
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:56.119
<v Speaker 2>became part of Rochester's criminal history, the moment when Rochesterian

517
00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:00.240
<v Speaker 2>women learned that they were never safe when alone, even

518
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:03.000
<v Speaker 2>on a Saturday morning with the sun shining, and not

519
00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:04.960
<v Speaker 2>even on hollowed ground.

520
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.480
<v Speaker 3>Another story that we're going to discuss from this book

521
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:13.400
<v Speaker 3>is the attacks of the Linden lunatic search for a

522
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:18.240
<v Speaker 3>serial killer. And this occurs in Linden, New York. You write,

523
00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:21.920
<v Speaker 3>a tiny village of about one hundred farmers and apple orchards,

524
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:27.119
<v Speaker 3>and November fifteenth, nineteen seventeen, a body of an unknown

525
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.200
<v Speaker 3>woman is found in the woods outside of town, her

526
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:36.000
<v Speaker 3>head bashed in some sort of large blunt object used,

527
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:41.920
<v Speaker 3>you say, likely a large rock. She's been dead about

528
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:46.559
<v Speaker 3>three days. So what happens You write that an eyewitness

529
00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:49.359
<v Speaker 3>comes forward almost immediately tell us about.

530
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:53.480
<v Speaker 2>That a man is seen walking into the woods with

531
00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:56.839
<v Speaker 2>a woman and coming out by himself. Again, it's from

532
00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:59.839
<v Speaker 2>a distance, and nobody has any idea who The woman's

533
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:03.759
<v Speaker 2>eventually buried under the name Ruth, which the coroner gave her.

534
00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:07.000
<v Speaker 2>She's a Jane Doe, as we'd refer to her today.

535
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:10.279
<v Speaker 2>They believe she was a sex worker, either from Buffalo

536
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:17.079
<v Speaker 2>or Rochester. This is little village of Linden is it's

537
00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:20.799
<v Speaker 2>in western New York, ten miles south of Batavia, which

538
00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:24.640
<v Speaker 2>is between Rochester and Buffalo. And don't look for it

539
00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:28.319
<v Speaker 2>on the map today because, as we'll find out, it

540
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:33.720
<v Speaker 2>doesn't exist. Five years after Ruth is murdered, and we're

541
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:37.359
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen twenty two. Now October nineteen twenty two, about

542
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:40.480
<v Speaker 2>a mile and a half from town. Justice of the Piece,

543
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Morris Neelan, is passing his next door neighbors home when

544
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:50.000
<v Speaker 2>he notices something odd. Miss Francis Kimball, seventy two years old,

545
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:52.720
<v Speaker 2>is nowhere to be seen, and her cow had not

546
00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:58.000
<v Speaker 2>been milked. Now you can you could keep time by

547
00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:01.119
<v Speaker 2>people milking their cows back you didn't miss a day,

548
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:03.599
<v Speaker 2>you didn't milk late. The cow would get uncomfortable if

549
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:06.519
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't milked. So there's a search for Miss Kimball,

550
00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:10.360
<v Speaker 2>who was a staunch teetotaler known to scold men who

551
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:13.920
<v Speaker 2>wreaked a hard cider, and she was found dead in

552
00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:18.360
<v Speaker 2>her basement, stuffed under an apple bin, head bashed to

553
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:21.000
<v Speaker 2>a pulp with a big rock, same way Ruth died,

554
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:25.920
<v Speaker 2>which was found nearby, covered with blood and hair. The

555
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:29.639
<v Speaker 2>killer struck her first with his fist, breaking her jaw,

556
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.039
<v Speaker 2>knocking her cold, and sending her false teeth flying. He

557
00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:37.440
<v Speaker 2>then walked to the cellar window, reached from the inside

558
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:41.320
<v Speaker 2>and cut the telephone wires. Returned to the unconscious woman,

559
00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:44.320
<v Speaker 2>picked up a large rock and pounded her skull to

560
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:48.440
<v Speaker 2>fragments at some point he'd discharged seamen upon her. The

561
00:34:48.519 --> 00:34:51.519
<v Speaker 2>killer had little to fear from the woman, yet exhibited

562
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:57.000
<v Speaker 2>tremendous anger overkills the modern term, and police thought that

563
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:00.960
<v Speaker 2>perhaps he wasn't terribly bright, because cutting the telephone wires

564
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:09.199
<v Speaker 2>seemed completely unnecessary. If she lives alone, who who's going

565
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:12.639
<v Speaker 2>to call anybody? And if somebody does call in and

566
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:14.599
<v Speaker 2>they find out that the wires have been cut, that's

567
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:19.000
<v Speaker 2>going to alert somebody that's a problem, rather than to

568
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:24.199
<v Speaker 2>do the opposite. Anyway, a number of suspects are question again,

569
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:27.559
<v Speaker 2>all denied have anything to do with the murder, and

570
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:32.920
<v Speaker 2>the village was quiet until September twenty third, nineteen twenty three,

571
00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:36.679
<v Speaker 2>when someone tried to burn down the house of Judge Neelon,

572
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:39.159
<v Speaker 2>the man who lived next door to Miss Kimball and

573
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:43.000
<v Speaker 2>realized that there was something wrong in her house. Then

574
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:47.079
<v Speaker 2>on March eleventh, nineteen twenty four. The following spring, there

575
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:50.199
<v Speaker 2>are three more murders in Linden, done in such a

576
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:53.639
<v Speaker 2>way that comparisons to Miss Kimball's murder and the arson

577
00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:57.639
<v Speaker 2>at Justice Neelan's house were inevitable. The crime scene was

578
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.920
<v Speaker 2>about one hundred yards from the Linden Railroad station. The

579
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:05.000
<v Speaker 2>victims were Thomas and Hattie Whaley, both fifty five years old,

580
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:09.159
<v Speaker 2>and missus Mabel Morse was fifty whose husband ran the

581
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:12.840
<v Speaker 2>Linden Village store. The Whaleys were shot to death with

582
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:16.639
<v Speaker 2>a thirty two and Missus Morse was fatally struck over

583
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:21.239
<v Speaker 2>the head repeatedly with a pickhandle. The bodies were placed

584
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:25.199
<v Speaker 2>on top of one another and set on fire. Whaley's

585
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:27.320
<v Speaker 2>lived alone, about a five minute walk from the center

586
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:30.719
<v Speaker 2>of the village. Mister Whaley worked as a section foreman

587
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.480
<v Speaker 2>on the Erie Railroad. As a side income, Whaley kept

588
00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:36.920
<v Speaker 2>two cows and sold the milk to the village grocer,

589
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.719
<v Speaker 2>George Morse, that was Mabel's husband, and on the evening

590
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:44.000
<v Speaker 2>of the murders, shortly after six o'clock, Missus Morse took

591
00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:46.840
<v Speaker 2>her empty milk pail from the store and started for

592
00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:50.599
<v Speaker 2>the Whaley home, and time passed and she didn't return

593
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:55.320
<v Speaker 2>back At the village store, Myron Smith, her employee, was

594
00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:57.519
<v Speaker 2>concerned when she didn't come back. There was a radio

595
00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:01.320
<v Speaker 2>radio was brand new in nineteen twenty before and the

596
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:04.760
<v Speaker 2>only radio station in Rochester was w h A m

597
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:08.400
<v Speaker 2>still on the air by the way, and they used

598
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:11.079
<v Speaker 2>to in the afternoons they would they would run a

599
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:14.559
<v Speaker 2>program at the Eastman School of Music, wonderful music being

600
00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:19.079
<v Speaker 2>played by the students there, and Missus Morse had a

601
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:21.519
<v Speaker 2>son who was going to that school, so she never

602
00:37:21.559 --> 00:37:23.679
<v Speaker 2>missed that show. And yet the show's on and she

603
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:26.760
<v Speaker 2>hasn't returned, so that raises a red flag, and he

604
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:30.440
<v Speaker 2>goes looking for her. He gets to the he gets

605
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:33.519
<v Speaker 2>to the Whaley home, raises a kitchen window and it's

606
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:36.559
<v Speaker 2>hit by a billow of smoke. So he and two

607
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:40.280
<v Speaker 2>passers by broke down the Whaley's rear door, put out

608
00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:44.000
<v Speaker 2>the fire and found the bodies. The killer had placed

609
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:47.920
<v Speaker 2>hooked rag rugs over the bodies, poured kerosene on them,

610
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:52.519
<v Speaker 2>and set them out of fire, creating a smoldering lazy fire.

611
00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Missus Morris's son Clyde, said that on the evening of

612
00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:02.519
<v Speaker 2>May eleventh, perhaps minutes after the murders took place, he

613
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:06.119
<v Speaker 2>received a phone call at his home in Rochester from

614
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:10.239
<v Speaker 2>a man who refused to identify himself. You'll never see

615
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:13.920
<v Speaker 2>your mother again, he said, before hanging up. Now. Clyde

616
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.079
<v Speaker 2>told his neighbors about the call and traveled to Batavia,

617
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:19.599
<v Speaker 2>where he learned that the call wasn't a prank and

618
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:22.159
<v Speaker 2>may have been a taunt from his mom's killer.

619
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:28.840
<v Speaker 3>Incredible. How do they police proceed with this information?

620
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, everyone in Linden and the surrounding area had a

621
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:34.920
<v Speaker 2>theory as to who the killer was. Linda became a

622
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:39.480
<v Speaker 2>pressure cooker of tension and anxiety. Police could talk to

623
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:43.480
<v Speaker 2>everybody in town, and they did. One family moved away,

624
00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:48.199
<v Speaker 2>then another and another. Apparently the killer must have moved

625
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:52.800
<v Speaker 2>away as well, because eventually Linden was no more. It

626
00:38:53.719 --> 00:38:58.000
<v Speaker 2>was a ghost town which had been wiped out by

627
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:01.679
<v Speaker 2>a serial killer. But the way this is not like

628
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:05.199
<v Speaker 2>Anna in the cemetery. Police never did figure out who

629
00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:08.280
<v Speaker 2>did it, but I think we have so we can

630
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:08.840
<v Speaker 2>get to that.

631
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:12.840
<v Speaker 3>Let's use this as an opportunity to stop to hear

632
00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:20.199
<v Speaker 3>these messages. Let's talk about this suspect, Andrew Michelle and

633
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:24.440
<v Speaker 3>why he became a suspect. What was his connection? Police

634
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:28.719
<v Speaker 3>felt to all of these victims, Well.

635
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:33.119
<v Speaker 2>Before they get hip to Andrew Michelle, and Michelle had

636
00:39:33.159 --> 00:39:37.239
<v Speaker 2>been spoken to after each of the murders. So far, Yes,

637
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:40.239
<v Speaker 2>but he moves away with everybody else, you know, trying

638
00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:43.039
<v Speaker 2>to get away from the killer. And in May nineteen

639
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:46.000
<v Speaker 2>thirty four, a man named Benjamin Phillips, seventy six year

640
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:49.599
<v Speaker 2>old farmer on Buffalo Road in the town of Alexander

641
00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:52.719
<v Speaker 2>on the other side of Genesee County, fights a home

642
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:57.079
<v Speaker 2>invader before succumbing to a horrible beating, and after the murder,

643
00:39:57.199 --> 00:40:00.280
<v Speaker 2>his body is set on fire on his bed again

644
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:04.519
<v Speaker 2>with kerosene and the rugs, and death is caused by

645
00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:08.599
<v Speaker 2>a badly fractured skull. Horrible scenes discovered by Missus Phillips

646
00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:11.199
<v Speaker 2>and her son Joseph, were surprised to find that the

647
00:40:11.239 --> 00:40:14.159
<v Speaker 2>house is completely dark when they arrived, and the house

648
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:17.199
<v Speaker 2>are the fires contained to the first floor bedroom where

649
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:20.880
<v Speaker 2>the body lay. At this point a name of a

650
00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:26.719
<v Speaker 2>suspect becomes fairly obvious, although again the ability to prove

651
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:30.079
<v Speaker 2>someone as a murderer in nineteen thirty is very different

652
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:33.719
<v Speaker 2>from now. But the man was named Andrew Michelle, as

653
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:37.599
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned, and he had a grudge against all of

654
00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:41.519
<v Speaker 2>the Linden victims. Miss Kimball had once had him arrested

655
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:44.360
<v Speaker 2>for drinking. He was a drinking man. This was prohibition.

656
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:47.199
<v Speaker 2>She was the teetotaler that always got into the faces

657
00:40:47.239 --> 00:40:52.360
<v Speaker 2>of drunks. She even testified against him in court. Thomas

658
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Whaley he earned Michelle's ire when he told people that

659
00:40:56.519 --> 00:41:00.679
<v Speaker 2>he suspected Michelle was the arson at Judge Neilvillain's house

660
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:05.599
<v Speaker 2>and possibly the Kimball killer as well. He also reportedly

661
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:10.199
<v Speaker 2>refused to lend Michelle money. George Morse and by implication,

662
00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:15.079
<v Speaker 2>his wife got onto Michelle's alleged list by cutting off

663
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:19.159
<v Speaker 2>his credit at the village store. Michelle was into the

664
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:21.960
<v Speaker 2>morses for one hundred and sixty dollars and was told

665
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:24.800
<v Speaker 2>in writing no more groceries until he paid that down.

666
00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:28.119
<v Speaker 2>So at one time or another, Michelle made threats against

667
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:32.159
<v Speaker 2>all four of the Linden victims. Now he came close

668
00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:35.559
<v Speaker 2>to being arrested after the Trim triple homicide. He was

669
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:39.679
<v Speaker 2>grilled for hours, but was eventually released for a very

670
00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:43.840
<v Speaker 2>unusual reason. He had suffered a horrible accident in a

671
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:47.119
<v Speaker 2>sawmill when he was a boy and had sawt off

672
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:50.760
<v Speaker 2>four fingers on his right hand and to pick up

673
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:52.840
<v Speaker 2>the slack, and this is I don't know if it's

674
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.800
<v Speaker 2>a physical, physical thing that happens, but apparently it happened

675
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.840
<v Speaker 2>in this case to pick up the slack, his remaining

676
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:03.199
<v Speaker 2>forefinger grew in girth until it was twice the size

677
00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:07.079
<v Speaker 2>of a normal finger. Wow, And we have a photo

678
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:10.280
<v Speaker 2>in the book which tends to suggest this is true.

679
00:42:11.239 --> 00:42:15.760
<v Speaker 2>And that finger, it was argued, was too thick to

680
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:18.280
<v Speaker 2>have pulled the trigger on the thirty two revolver used

681
00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:21.519
<v Speaker 2>to kill the Wales. Couldn't he just put the gun

682
00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:25.159
<v Speaker 2>in his other hand? Nobody asked, and Michelle remained free.

683
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Shortly after the triple homicide, he moved to the town

684
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:33.599
<v Speaker 2>of Attica, not the prison, in the town three miles

685
00:42:33.679 --> 00:42:37.480
<v Speaker 2>from the Benjamin Phillips crime scene in Alexander. His beef,

686
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:40.960
<v Speaker 2>if any, with the final victim, is unknown, But if

687
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:44.519
<v Speaker 2>he's the guy who's pouring kerosene on rag rugs at one,

688
00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:48.440
<v Speaker 2>he's probably the guy pouring kerosene on ragrugs at the other. Yes.

689
00:42:48.760 --> 00:42:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Was he the type of man who could kill humans

690
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:54.440
<v Speaker 2>by bashing in their heads? Indication is that he was,

691
00:42:55.159 --> 00:42:58.320
<v Speaker 2>once having been arrested for beating a horse with a

692
00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:01.800
<v Speaker 2>two by four so severely that the horse lost an eye.

693
00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:06.360
<v Speaker 2>And as for Ruth, the first victim, the Jane Doe

694
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:10.239
<v Speaker 2>found in the woods in nineteen seventeen, she was probably

695
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:14.719
<v Speaker 2>a sex worker. He was a bachelor, not particularly swift

696
00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:17.599
<v Speaker 2>with women. And it turns out that at that time,

697
00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:20.519
<v Speaker 2>at the time of Ruth's death, he was working near

698
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:25.519
<v Speaker 2>the crime scene, clearing wood from the woods there. He

699
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:28.119
<v Speaker 2>died at the age of seventy seven in the Rochester

700
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:32.480
<v Speaker 2>State Hospital, a mental institution, in nineteen sixty. He'd been

701
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:36.880
<v Speaker 2>committed in nineteen fifty eight. Is mentally incompetent, so he

702
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:42.360
<v Speaker 2>was never punished for the murders. He did spend the

703
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:46.320
<v Speaker 2>last years of his life, however, in an institution, and

704
00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:50.880
<v Speaker 2>because of the tremendous population increase since the murders, folks

705
00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:54.719
<v Speaker 2>today do live where Linden used to be, but there

706
00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:58.360
<v Speaker 2>is no village and their addresses say Bethany. So Linden

707
00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:02.440
<v Speaker 2>was the town in upstate New York that was destroyed

708
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:03.440
<v Speaker 2>by a serial killer.

709
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:08.760
<v Speaker 3>Wow, you're right that author Rob R. Thompson, a retired

710
00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:13.559
<v Speaker 3>mental health counselor and retired a FBI agent Mark Safferik

711
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:17.199
<v Speaker 3>have also researched the Linden murders as a cold case

712
00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:17.760
<v Speaker 3>as well.

713
00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Right, and I am borrowing their diagnosis of what happened.

714
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:27.280
<v Speaker 2>He's there suspect and it seems like an open and

715
00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:31.639
<v Speaker 2>shut case. There aren't that many suspects. It's a very

716
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:34.039
<v Speaker 2>small town. You could put them all in one room.

717
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:37.840
<v Speaker 2>And he was the maniac who beat horses with a

718
00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:41.239
<v Speaker 2>two by four and all of his enemies are being murdered.

719
00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Why they didn't move on him earlier, the excuse of

720
00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:48.880
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't shoot a thirty two with his fat finger.

721
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:53.119
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't wash with me. I would be unhappy with

722
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:58.519
<v Speaker 2>that if I were a law enforcement person in nineteen thirty.

723
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:06.119
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, and the misplaced police reaction to Benjamin Phillips was

724
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:09.719
<v Speaker 3>initially that they thought that somehow he had burnt himself

725
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:10.559
<v Speaker 3>in his own bed.

726
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:15.000
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, yeah, I think I made a comment earlier

727
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:18.519
<v Speaker 2>about how police were We're just as smart then as

728
00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:23.880
<v Speaker 2>they are now, but not always. In the town of Alexander,

729
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:28.199
<v Speaker 2>near Attica, they found a man who had died of

730
00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:33.039
<v Speaker 2>a fractured skull, lying on a bed on fire and

731
00:45:34.119 --> 00:45:36.679
<v Speaker 2>came to the conclusion that the ceiling had fallen on

732
00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:39.280
<v Speaker 2>his head and then he'd set himself on fire with

733
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:42.280
<v Speaker 2>a cigarette, which is just ridiculous.

734
00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:49.480
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely. Just in closing with this interview, the last chapter

735
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:53.360
<v Speaker 3>is called Updates, and you say it three arrests since

736
00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:57.840
<v Speaker 3>we last chatted. And it's regarding a few years ago

737
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:02.679
<v Speaker 3>a private investigator, Don Tubman and you worked cold case

738
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:06.960
<v Speaker 3>murder cases in the Rochester area. You had success with

739
00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:10.519
<v Speaker 3>the nineteen sixty six Chili murders, and you felt that

740
00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:14.840
<v Speaker 3>you had pushed the double initial investigation in the correct

741
00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:19.079
<v Speaker 3>direction and that book was Nightmare in Rochester. Tell us

742
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:22.000
<v Speaker 3>about the good news regarding these three cases.

743
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:27.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, and this makes me very happy. Kathleen Krauzenek

744
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:30.280
<v Speaker 2>was killed on February nineteenth, nineteen eighty two, in her

745
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:33.559
<v Speaker 2>Brighton home. Twenty nine year old woman found struck once

746
00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:37.039
<v Speaker 2>in the head with an axe. She was slain as

747
00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:40.239
<v Speaker 2>she slept. The axe had been left embedded in her

748
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:44.559
<v Speaker 2>head handle sticking up. She was home alone with her

749
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:49.519
<v Speaker 2>three year old daughter at the time, and her husband

750
00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:51.840
<v Speaker 2>a barely been the last to see her alive when

751
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:54.079
<v Speaker 2>he left for work and found the body when he

752
00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:57.920
<v Speaker 2>came home from work. The husband was thirty year old James.

753
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:02.920
<v Speaker 2>He said that he and his wife had dinner some

754
00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:05.280
<v Speaker 2>wine together and then went to bed and they were

755
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:09.159
<v Speaker 2>asleep before midnight. CSI people went over the bed carefully

756
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:12.320
<v Speaker 2>and although there was plenty of evidence that Kathleen slept there.

757
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:15.280
<v Speaker 2>There was no indication of Jim, none of his hairs,

758
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:18.039
<v Speaker 2>no fingerprints. In fact, there are no fingerprints in the

759
00:47:18.199 --> 00:47:21.840
<v Speaker 2>entire house, which meant that either somebody had wiped the

760
00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:27.519
<v Speaker 2>entire house down or the Crossnex never touched anything. Now,

761
00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:30.440
<v Speaker 2>the daughter Sarah was home during the attack. Who knew

762
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:32.840
<v Speaker 2>what she saw? Nobody really wanted to think about it

763
00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:35.960
<v Speaker 2>was so horrible. The best note of reassurance authorities could

764
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:40.159
<v Speaker 2>offer was that the child was unharmed physically anyway. She

765
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:45.159
<v Speaker 2>dressed herself and was found wearing two sweaters backwards. Broken

766
00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:47.760
<v Speaker 2>window was found on the door between the screened in

767
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:51.360
<v Speaker 2>porch and the kitchen, but nothing had been stolen. Now,

768
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:56.519
<v Speaker 2>after the murder, Dad acted very peculiarly. He stopped talking

769
00:47:56.559 --> 00:47:59.719
<v Speaker 2>to his in laws entirely. He took his daughter and

770
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:03.639
<v Speaker 2>left town, hoping the whole thing would be forgotten, Which

771
00:48:03.679 --> 00:48:06.159
<v Speaker 2>is not a normal way for a man to act

772
00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:08.639
<v Speaker 2>when his wife has been murdered. It's more like the

773
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:13.760
<v Speaker 2>way he acts after a divorce after winning custody. So

774
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:17.960
<v Speaker 2>skipping ahead thirty seven years early in twenty nineteen, after

775
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:20.400
<v Speaker 2>the story appeared in my book Haunting, homicides which I

776
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:23.199
<v Speaker 2>wrote down TUBBN. I'd like to think this helped put

777
00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:27.320
<v Speaker 2>the case on law enforcements front burner. Several months after

778
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.719
<v Speaker 2>the book came out, Brighton Police Chief Mark Henderson teamed

779
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:34.599
<v Speaker 2>up with the FBI and evidence regarding the murder was

780
00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:38.599
<v Speaker 2>presented to a grand jury. November eighth, twenty nineteen, Jim

781
00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:42.159
<v Speaker 2>Krausinek was arraigned after an indictment was unsealed in court

782
00:48:42.519 --> 00:48:46.119
<v Speaker 2>charging him with second degree murder. As his daughter Sarah,

783
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:49.920
<v Speaker 2>now all grown up, the only witness of the crime,

784
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:53.280
<v Speaker 2>her memory is still a mystery, stood next to him.

785
00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:56.559
<v Speaker 2>The now sixty seven year old Jim pleaded not guilty,

786
00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.840
<v Speaker 2>posted twenty five thousand dollars cash bail, torender his passport,

787
00:49:01.079 --> 00:49:06.880
<v Speaker 2>and was released pending trial. And the trial but very smoothly.

788
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:10.280
<v Speaker 2>After a day and a half of a deliberation, the

789
00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:14.079
<v Speaker 2>jury returned with a unanimous guilty verdict and the remains

790
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:17.360
<v Speaker 2>of Cathy were moved from the Krousenet plot to her

791
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:23.079
<v Speaker 2>own family's burial plot. Interesting, you know, we could talk

792
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:27.480
<v Speaker 2>forever about Sarah, who who knows what she saw on

793
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:30.400
<v Speaker 2>the day her mother was murdered, What she remembers she

794
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:33.840
<v Speaker 2>always insisted her father was innocent and stood by him

795
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:36.079
<v Speaker 2>right up until the moment that he was put in

796
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:40.119
<v Speaker 2>prison forever. Yeah, so the other updates. The second update

797
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:44.199
<v Speaker 2>is Wendy Jerome. I don't know if you have a

798
00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:46.000
<v Speaker 2>specific question you want to ask about her, but.

799
00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:50.519
<v Speaker 3>Well tell us a particulars of her case and how

800
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:52.440
<v Speaker 3>it went cold and how it was solved.

801
00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:56.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I first wrote about her in Nightmare in Rochester

802
00:49:56.760 --> 00:49:59.960
<v Speaker 2>again with Don Tubman. And the reason I was interest

803
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:02.199
<v Speaker 2>in her case. First of all, she's a fourteen year

804
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:05.079
<v Speaker 2>old girl who's walking to her friend's house and never

805
00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:08.599
<v Speaker 2>comes home, and she's she's found raped and murdered, so

806
00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:13.119
<v Speaker 2>that that's one of the reasons why I caught my interest.

807
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:16.440
<v Speaker 2>But another reason was her body was found at the

808
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:21.079
<v Speaker 2>entrance to School thirty three on Webster Avenue, which happened

809
00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:25.400
<v Speaker 2>to have been the exact same door that Michelle Maenza,

810
00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:28.800
<v Speaker 2>the third of the double initial murder victims, came out

811
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:31.280
<v Speaker 2>of just before she was abducted. So there was a

812
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:36.239
<v Speaker 2>geographical connection that I couldn't get over. Although I knew

813
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:39.559
<v Speaker 2>even then that it was probably not the same killer,

814
00:50:40.239 --> 00:50:44.239
<v Speaker 2>I still included the case in the book Now there

815
00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:48.159
<v Speaker 2>was a four inch cut in Wendy's throat, her pink

816
00:50:48.199 --> 00:50:51.400
<v Speaker 2>hoodie had been removed and placed over her beaten face,

817
00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:54.039
<v Speaker 2>and between the rape and the murder, she'd been allowed

818
00:50:54.039 --> 00:50:57.480
<v Speaker 2>to get dressed. Because of death was massive head injuries.

819
00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:01.559
<v Speaker 2>She'd been beaten with a blunt instrument, possibly a hammer.

820
00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Twenty eight years after Wendy's murder, police revealed to the

821
00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:09.400
<v Speaker 2>public for the first time that an empty pack of

822
00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:12.679
<v Speaker 2>cigarettes and a lighter were found near the body. I

823
00:51:12.679 --> 00:51:14.920
<v Speaker 2>believe I think I knew this before the public did,

824
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.039
<v Speaker 2>but keptamasha. There were also hairs belonging to an African

825
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:22.760
<v Speaker 2>American male found at the crime scene and usable DNA.

826
00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:27.599
<v Speaker 2>There was no hit on Cotis case went cold, and

827
00:51:27.639 --> 00:51:30.639
<v Speaker 2>then in twenty twenty, there was a familial hit on

828
00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:34.159
<v Speaker 2>the DNA profile the relative of a Florida man named

829
00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Timothy Williams. Rochester police did a little research, learned that

830
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Williams had been twenty years old and lived in Wendy's

831
00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:42.800
<v Speaker 2>neighborhood at the time of the murder, and knowing they

832
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:47.360
<v Speaker 2>had their man, Rochester Police Department investigators John Brennan and

833
00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Gary Galletta went down to Florida to get him. Williams

834
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:53.519
<v Speaker 2>was all smiles until he heard that the cops were

835
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:55.840
<v Speaker 2>from Rochester. Then he knew it was over.

836
00:51:56.800 --> 00:51:58.119
<v Speaker 3>Wow, happy ending.

837
00:51:58.760 --> 00:51:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if they can be.

838
00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:04.000
<v Speaker 3>Tell us about the third success story.

839
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:08.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, this one's a little bit personal for me. I

840
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:11.480
<v Speaker 2>got to know the family pretty well. The third update

841
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:13.920
<v Speaker 2>comes from a murder I first wrote about in my

842
00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:18.920
<v Speaker 2>book Killer Twins, which was about identical twins Stephen and

843
00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:26.639
<v Speaker 2>Robert Spahalski, killed individually but identically, which is tremendous nature

844
00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:33.960
<v Speaker 2>versus nurture experiment. On December seventh, nineteen ninety two, Victoria

845
00:52:34.039 --> 00:52:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Jobson's decomposed body was found nude and filled with multiple

846
00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:46.280
<v Speaker 2>stab wounds in a Rochester park along a row of

847
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:50.480
<v Speaker 2>thick trees. In response to the discovery of the remains,

848
00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:54.360
<v Speaker 2>the first Rochester officer on the scene was Mark Marianna,

849
00:52:55.079 --> 00:53:00.000
<v Speaker 2>who also wrote the initial report. A medical examiner determined

850
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:02.639
<v Speaker 2>that Vicky had been killed much earlier, perhaps around the

851
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:05.320
<v Speaker 2>time she disappeared, and had recently been moved to the

852
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:09.039
<v Speaker 2>spot where she was discovered. Years later, Marianna was promoted

853
00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:12.320
<v Speaker 2>to squad leader in the homicide unit, and sometime in

854
00:53:12.360 --> 00:53:15.119
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and five, while reading through cold cases. He

855
00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:18.719
<v Speaker 2>discovered Vicky's case file and reread it, and he went

856
00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:23.000
<v Speaker 2>to work. He developed a confidential informant who had some

857
00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:28.119
<v Speaker 2>interesting facts about Vicky's disappearance and subsequent murder. There was

858
00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:31.199
<v Speaker 2>the usual give and take between the informant and Mariano

859
00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:34.000
<v Speaker 2>about how the snitch would benefit from helping the investigation,

860
00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:38.639
<v Speaker 2>and after that was worked out, Mariano learned some surprising facts.

861
00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:42.320
<v Speaker 2>The informant said that Vicki was killed off of Emerson Street.

862
00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:45.519
<v Speaker 2>She was picked up by a customer who brought her

863
00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:48.559
<v Speaker 2>back to his residence, actually to a shed in the

864
00:53:48.559 --> 00:53:51.320
<v Speaker 2>rear of his house. He was there with another mail

865
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:53.760
<v Speaker 2>and the three smoked crack. One of the males had

866
00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:56.519
<v Speaker 2>sex with Vicki, and when Vicki demanded her money for

867
00:53:56.559 --> 00:53:59.440
<v Speaker 2>the transaction, the males told her that her pay was

868
00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:03.679
<v Speaker 2>in crack and she had smoked it with them. This

869
00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:06.400
<v Speaker 2>led to a verbal argument over money, which ultimately led

870
00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:08.960
<v Speaker 2>to the older of the two males striking and stabbing

871
00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:12.719
<v Speaker 2>Vicky to death. Vicky was buried in a very shallow

872
00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:15.800
<v Speaker 2>grave under the floor of the shed, where she remained

873
00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:18.760
<v Speaker 2>for over a month, and then, in a scene right

874
00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:22.280
<v Speaker 2>out of the movies. During a family dinner, the subject

875
00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:25.599
<v Speaker 2>of Vicky being dead in the shed comes up. The

876
00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:27.920
<v Speaker 2>patriarch of the family said, you gotta get that thing

877
00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:31.599
<v Speaker 2>out of there now. So the men who put Vicky

878
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:35.880
<v Speaker 2>in the ground waited until dark to move the short

879
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:38.800
<v Speaker 2>distance to the spot where she was found, and two

880
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:41.679
<v Speaker 2>males walking in the area discovered the remains the next day.

881
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:45.159
<v Speaker 2>Years and years went by and the killers were never

882
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:49.039
<v Speaker 2>suspected in any way. The family kept the ghastly secret

883
00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:52.800
<v Speaker 2>among them. I can't even imagine the frustration of losing

884
00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:56.159
<v Speaker 2>a loved one to murder knowing who the killers are,

885
00:54:57.639 --> 00:55:00.239
<v Speaker 2>as then that they remained free, just out of each

886
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:05.719
<v Speaker 2>seemingly taunting, and that frustration lingered until November twenty twenty four,

887
00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:10.599
<v Speaker 2>thirty two years after Vicki's murder, And that was when

888
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:15.000
<v Speaker 2>State Supreme Court Justice Judy Sinclair unsealed an indictment charging

889
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:18.320
<v Speaker 2>fifty nine year old Arthur Jason Junior of Cansis, New

890
00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:22.719
<v Speaker 2>York with secondary murder. Then came news that there was

891
00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:26.199
<v Speaker 2>a second arrest, no name only, that had been taking

892
00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:29.559
<v Speaker 2>place in Canada, and the suspect's name would not be

893
00:55:29.639 --> 00:55:32.719
<v Speaker 2>released until the indictment was unsealed in a Monroe Court

894
00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:36.400
<v Speaker 2>County courtroom, which has not yet happened, and justice, it

895
00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:39.639
<v Speaker 2>would seem, was well on its way to being served

896
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:42.719
<v Speaker 2>better late than ever. And if any of any of

897
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:46.199
<v Speaker 2>Vicki's families listening to this, I'm so happy for you guys.

898
00:55:46.719 --> 00:55:50.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, they came to me as as a last resort.

899
00:55:51.599 --> 00:55:54.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm so not a cop and so not a detective,

900
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:57.599
<v Speaker 2>but I was having success going over fact patterns and

901
00:55:57.639 --> 00:56:00.679
<v Speaker 2>coming up with ideas regarding other murders. They begged me

902
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:04.320
<v Speaker 2>to do something, and as I would speaking with them,

903
00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:07.519
<v Speaker 2>I had an inkling that Mark Marianno already knew the answer,

904
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:11.119
<v Speaker 2>and talked to him and he then, you know, he

905
00:56:11.320 --> 00:56:16.360
<v Speaker 2>started talking to the family and everybody's buddies now, and

906
00:56:16.400 --> 00:56:19.840
<v Speaker 2>that's it. The book ends on an extremely happy note,

907
00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:24.519
<v Speaker 2>as happy as a murder case can be. Justice better

908
00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:25.199
<v Speaker 2>late than never.

909
00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:31.480
<v Speaker 3>Yes, justice prevails, absolutely incredible ending. Certainly, I want to

910
00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:33.920
<v Speaker 3>thank you very much Michael Benson for coming on and

911
00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:39.480
<v Speaker 3>talking about your latest and greatest, Shallow Graves Ghastly Murders, Rochester,

912
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:42.440
<v Speaker 3>New York. Again, I ask for people that might want

913
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:44.360
<v Speaker 3>to find out more about this book and your other

914
00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:47.920
<v Speaker 3>books where will people look best.

915
00:56:48.119 --> 00:56:53.280
<v Speaker 2>I think the key is to google at author Michael Benson,

916
00:56:53.400 --> 00:56:57.639
<v Speaker 2>all one word, at author Michael Benson, all one word,

917
00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:01.320
<v Speaker 2>and that'll take you to the various social media where

918
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:04.760
<v Speaker 2>you can find out about my books. And if that's

919
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:07.159
<v Speaker 2>too difficult, just go on Amazon. They're all on there.

920
00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:09.719
<v Speaker 2>There are a couple of Michael Benson's who write books,

921
00:57:09.719 --> 00:57:11.559
<v Speaker 2>but I don't think it would be confused. I'm the

922
00:57:11.599 --> 00:57:15.320
<v Speaker 2>guy with the white beard that writes about psycho killers.

923
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:19.480
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, Thank you so much, Michael Benson. Thank you so much.

924
00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Dan Zepansky, It's always a pleasure.

925
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:25.000
<v Speaker 3>It's always a pleasure. Thank you so much. Shallow Graves,

926
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:28.840
<v Speaker 3>Ghasoly Murders, Rochester, New York. Thank you so much. Michael Benson.

927
00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:32.199
<v Speaker 3>Have a great evening, and good night, good night, good night,
