WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:08.359 With Laurent's segle End from London and Gerard Reed from Berlin. 2 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:10.800 This is redefining. 3 00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:14.439 Energy today on reilli if an energy job, we're going 4 00:00:14.519 --> 00:00:17.839 to talk about broken grids and how they can cope 5 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:19.800 with the lord growth of data centers. 6 00:00:20.280 --> 00:00:24.440 Absolutely very topical given what's happened in Spain and also 7 00:00:24.519 --> 00:00:27.600 what happened to heat throw and on whatever grids, we 8 00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:29.160 realize the importance of them right. 9 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:31.519 But first of all, from my partner, A. 10 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:34.799 B Loco Energy is Europe's premier leaser of ten foot 11 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:39.880 container mobile batteries built in Europe with Coatl best LFP cells. 12 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:45.759 A Bloco Energy serves fourteen European countries, including France, Germany 13 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:49.039 and the UK. A Bloco's batteries can be leased for 14 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:52.280 any duration between six weeks and six years, and they 15 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:56.240 are monitored by the Dutch award winning platform school a 16 00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:00.159 Blocko Energy. Make your life easier, make your business more flex. 17 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:04.480 Back to the show so Jab in order to talk 18 00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:08.040 about bockn grids and how to fix them, we have 19 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:09.280 an extraordinary guest. 20 00:01:09.879 --> 00:01:13.079 Yeah, Jeremy Kent. I've known this man a couple of 21 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:16.120 years at this point in time, and he's brilliant. He's 22 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:18.519 the founder, CEO, and chairman of a company in the 23 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:22.200 US called One Power, where he leads the company's vision 24 00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:24.920 and growth. And he's really a pioneer in the whole 25 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:28.319 industrial power sector. And what I mean by that is 26 00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:32.879 he's bringing renewable energy to new industry. Really, you know, 27 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:37.439 data centers and companies that are looking to electrify their processes. 28 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:40.799 But he's doing it very fast, he sure is. 29 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:45.239 And he's taken responsibility of everything from transformer all the 30 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:45.959 way down. 31 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:48.280 To meet Let's listen to Jeremy. 32 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:50.840 Jeremy's great to have you on the show. 33 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:53.359 Thanks Jardan and Laura. Nice to say me here. 34 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:58.000 Maybe I'll kick off by just asking really about the 35 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:01.480 energy system in the US, and just we're hearing a 36 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:04.439 huge amount that power demand is going up. Can't build 37 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:07.599 a grid too much renewables. It all sounds like a 38 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:09.800 bit of a mess, so maybe just give us your 39 00:02:09.879 --> 00:02:10.479 sense of it all. 40 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:14.120 The American power grid is the largest machine ever built 41 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:17.199 in the history of the world, and right now that 42 00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:21.360 machine is seeing new use cases, new demand, new problems, 43 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:23.919 and it's not able to fix itself. It's not able 44 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:27.319 to fix itself because of economic reasons, because of engineering reasons, 45 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:30.639 because of policy reasons. And so now you have an 46 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:34.680 American grid that isn't ready for the next iteration of 47 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:38.319 American industrial revolution. And as we see new mega loads 48 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:40.159 popping in the grid to give us the things that 49 00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:43.400 we like to use, that grid is on a path 50 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:46.360 to fail if something doesn't change. And so that affects 51 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:48.120 all of the new loads, and that affects all of 52 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:50.680 the existing loads. And that's what we're watching and that's 53 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:51.479 what we're focused on. 54 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:53.520 Can you dig into that a little bit more when 55 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:55.400 you say that, right, So just talk what the change 56 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:57.919 is going on. So what we're saying is electricity demand 57 00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:59.759 is going up? Why is it going up? And then 58 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:02.479 can be related to that, talk a little bit about 59 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:07.039 the grid across the US and distresses that you see there. 60 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:09.680 Yeah, So if you think about the machine that is 61 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:12.599 the grid, that machine was based around the original big 62 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:16.319 loads in the early nineteen hundreds. It was based around refineries, 63 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:20.800 steel plants, chemical plants, these big things that may be 64 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:23.560 really big, like one hundred megawatts or some of the 65 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:26.439 biggest refineries in the world at like three hundred megawatts, 66 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:29.360 And that was the big loads on the grid, and 67 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:31.360 then there are a bunch of smaller loads that worked 68 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:34.680 around the system. Now, all of a sudden, you're seeing 69 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:39.560 a whole new industrial revolution with data centers, with bitcoin mining, 70 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:44.039 with big industrial greenhouses, with big additive manufacturing where you're 71 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:46.680 dropping in these new loads that are bigger than most 72 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:49.479 refineries all over the place. You're seeing a grid that 73 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:52.400 was never built to have a gigawat of new load 74 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:55.639 in Columbus, Ohio that's now all of a sudden seeing that, 75 00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:57.960 and it can pop up super quick. And so what 76 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:00.520 you're seeing is it's forcing stress on the whole system. 77 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:03.159 How much can you move power from the existing power 78 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:06.280 plants to those loads? How much can that transmission system 79 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:08.840 deal with You're seeing lines that are one hundred years 80 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:11.479 old in the transmission system that are now being stressed 81 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:14.080 to their max and haven't been stressed to their max 82 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:16.360 in the entire time, And now all of a sudden, 83 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:19.439 for economic reasons, you have utilities that are so used 84 00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:21.319 to giving out dividends that are having a hard time 85 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:24.439 investing in that. So they're saying, it's hard for us 86 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:26.560 to build anything quick, and we can't do that without 87 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:29.000 losing our credit rating because we don't have enough of 88 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:31.480 a reserve built up because we never thought this was coming. 89 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:34.319 And so for the first time in one hundred years 90 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:37.680 in the power grid, you're seeing this astronomical change in 91 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:40.959 the demand and the inability of that system that is 92 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:44.079 coasted for one hundred years trying to serve that demand. 93 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:47.560 And it's going to cost everybody because when the industrials suffer, 94 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:50.759 which our twenty six percent of the actual energy usage 95 00:04:50.759 --> 00:04:53.720 today or electricity usage today and rapidly growing, is their 96 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.519 percentage start stressing the grid and putting more load on 97 00:04:56.560 --> 00:04:59.519 the grid. That has an effect on everybody else, all 98 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:00.600 the way down to your home. 99 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:04.600 I like to word stress because we're all also seeing 100 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:07.399 that on the supply chain. When we talk two equipment 101 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:10.639 manufacturers and they all say, oh my god, I can't 102 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:14.839 deliver anything before two thirty. So why we were very 103 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:16.439 interested to have you on the show is that, in 104 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:20.560 fact you are building those new load centers. What have 105 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:23.439 you witnessed the past two or three years? And I 106 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:25.800 don't even want to enter in the rabbit hole of 107 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:29.800 tariffs and some which may add another layer of complexity, 108 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:33.120 But from an induscal point of view, how do you 109 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:34.720 assess the supply chain right now. 110 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:38.199 The problem with the supply chain is that everybody is 111 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:40.680 so used to the way they used to do things 112 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:44.319 that nobody is adapting to try to solve supply chain 113 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:47.360 problems like you would in any other industry. Right now, 114 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:50.720 you have utilities who say, here are the only six 115 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:54.600 facilities we buy breakers from. And now when demand goes up, 116 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.399 those six facilities are stressed, and utilities aren't saying, let's 117 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:01.319 go quickly add six more. They're saying, well, we'll just 118 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:03.800 wait for those breakers to come out of those facilities 119 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:06.600 that we know and trust. You're seeing that with transformers. 120 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:08.959 I've had the privilege of touring some of the largest 121 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:12.879 transformer factories in the world, and it is absolutely amazing 122 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:15.600 to see how much they're stuck in the nineteen hundreds. 123 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.399 Every single transformer coming down that line is different, every 124 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:23.439 single transformer is custom. It's rare to get an order 125 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:25.000 for two or three of the same thing. And so 126 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:28.639 these factories have adapted to all of this bespoke nature 127 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:32.000 where they had the luxury of time and no demand before, 128 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:34.399 and they weren't trying to grow fast, and so they 129 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:38.040 could be bespoke in a world that you're seeing now 130 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:40.959 with new load popping up at the scale we're seeing it, 131 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:45.120 bespoke doesn't work. The entire system falls apart. And so 132 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:48.040 what we're actively involved in is working with suppliers to 133 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:53.199 get into mass produced, standardized things that are good enough. 134 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:56.360 You can get the nice custom thing when you have 135 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:58.879 the luxury of time. Right now, the American grid doesn't 136 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:02.759 have the luxury of time. The American grid needs solutions 137 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:06.680 that are repeatable and scalable quickly now. And the easiest 138 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:08.360 way to do that is with all the load coming 139 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:10.560 off and going on the grid. So at all of 140 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:13.240 the generation points and all the load points, you can 141 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:16.600 start standardizing like crazy. If the whole system's willing to change, 142 00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:18.319 you just have to get it to change. 143 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:22.199 So, Jeremy, how do you get it to change? And listen, 144 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:23.279 at the end of the day year at a CEO 145 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:27.000 of an energy services business, so as you just gave 146 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:29.720 that example there of the utilities just always going back 147 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:33.040 to their old suppliers, and yeah, how do you get 148 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:33.600 it to change? 149 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:36.920 Basically, it's a lot of discipline and it's a lot 150 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:40.519 of changing the way we think about things. What we said, 151 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:44.959 Gerard is we need one standard design with as few 152 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:48.199 different parts as possible that works from the widest range 153 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:52.639 of things possible. We only buy a thirty megawat transformer 154 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:54.759 for our one thirty eight kV to thirty four or 155 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:57.959 five kV systems. If you have a twenty megawatt problem, 156 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:00.759 you're getting a thirty megawatt solution from us. If you 157 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:03.480 have a thirty five megawatt problem, you're getting a sixty 158 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:06.399 megawatt solution for us. I've only got one block, and 159 00:08:06.439 --> 00:08:09.560 that block is thirty megawats. And it forces a lot 160 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:13.959 of awkward conversations when the normal engineer for the customer goes, well, 161 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:16.000 but we only need forty megawatts, and you go, great, 162 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:18.399 that means sixty And they go, well, well, couldn't you 163 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:20.920 adapt this design? I really like blank? And you go, 164 00:08:21.079 --> 00:08:23.639 I'm sure you do like blank. That's not our standard part. 165 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:26.240 Our standard part I can have here on a much 166 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:29.399 quicker schedule. I can mass produce my standard part with 167 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:32.480 various factories around the world. I can now, all of 168 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:35.960 a sudden two refine that design in a way that 169 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:40.279 most people never get to refine designs. Most transformers never 170 00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:44.879 have a full suite of seismic testing of ballistic testing 171 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:47.759 of load testing because they've only built one or two 172 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:50.360 of them. Going back to Model T. This is ford 173 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:52.559 to one oh one do the same thing over and 174 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:56.200 over with interchangeable standardized parts on a line. The entire 175 00:08:56.279 --> 00:08:58.679 game changes and you go, it's good enough for everybody. 176 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:00.919 And that's how we actually so you can keep up 177 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:03.159 with this new load and with the new behind the 178 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:06.759 meter generation and actually solve all these industrial power problems. 179 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:09.480 But to really answer your question, Gerard, a lot of 180 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:11.960 times we just say, I know you want that, but 181 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:13.480 we're not going to give that to you. We're going 182 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:17.000 to give you a solution that works that is not customized. 183 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:19.720 It's a standardized solution. And if you want customized, and 184 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:21.600 you can wait five years like everybody else. 185 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:24.120 Can I just ask that. The question on this is 186 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.600 explain a little bit why everybody has gone this customized 187 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:31.679 approach in the past. I'm talking about a utility. Utility's bild, 188 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:34.679 not a grid. Why would you go to a point 189 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:37.519 where every transformer is different? Why did they go down 190 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:37.919 this road? 191 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:40.960 Well, there's two arguments. I'll give you the utility argument 192 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:42.399 and I'll give you what I think is really going 193 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.759 on the utility argument is that we put our great 194 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:49.279 engineers to solve each unique problem, and each problem is 195 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:51.440 a little bit different, and so they design it each 196 00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:54.279 time and end up with the solution that's best for 197 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:57.279 that substation at that location, for that new load at 198 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:00.320 that location, for whatever it is. And so let's apply 199 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:04.559 good American engineering to a good American problem. The reality 200 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:09.240 is in America almost all utilities are compensated based on 201 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:12.360 the rate base that they create, and if they add cost, 202 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:15.000 that cost is more rate base, then all of a 203 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:17.960 sudden they get a higher actual cash value rate of 204 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:21.399 return because they spend more money. The more they spend, 205 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:24.279 the more they make. And when you have that model, 206 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:27.440 there is no incentive from the CEO down to the 207 00:10:27.480 --> 00:10:29.320 head of engineering down to the guy in the field 208 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:32.559 to cut cost. If you cut cost, you end up 209 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:35.120 getting a lower bonus. And so when you take those 210 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.639 two competing problems one hundred year culture of we just 211 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:41.279 like to do everything bespoke for that site, that way 212 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:45.320 through the overall financial incentive of that cost more and 213 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:48.440 we get rewarded more. Nobody in that system is going 214 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:50.360 to change. I don't know what it would take to 215 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:52.960 make them change, but it's not going to happen naturally 216 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:55.240 without some major legal wrangling of them. 217 00:10:55.799 --> 00:10:59.279 To illustrate what you're saying about, some realization the still 218 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.840 could be about at the centers. We're seeing the XAI 219 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:07.240 data center in Tennessee built in recall time, and they 220 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:11.320 just put thirty two deesel engines. So it's the type 221 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:13.240 of approach you are advocating. 222 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:16.559 That particular data center may have some other legal issues 223 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:19.639 that I'm not necessarily advocating, but what I am advocating 224 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:23.480 for is a inventory of standard parts that can go 225 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:27.039 do a new industrial load in record time. We have 226 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:30.360 parts just coming in just on order. Let's order six 227 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:33.639 of these thirty megawatt transformers. Once order six more, and 228 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:35.879 now when that new load comes in, we can build 229 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:39.679 those systems in record time. We're working on getting so 230 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:44.600 standardized where every substation is the same, every distribution system 231 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:46.320 we build is the same, every piece of equipment is 232 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.960 the same, that we can build a substation from a 233 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.720 green field to running in ninety days, right ninety days 234 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:54.639 from the day we break ground to the day we go. 235 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:57.320 Here you go, and now all of a sudden, you 236 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:00.440 can move super fast. And by the way, if that 237 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.080 location has a problem because the utility is taking longer. 238 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:05.879 You can shift all those exact same parts to another 239 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.000 site that is ready. That's the only way you solve 240 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:11.480 this problem of how fast do you go? Is you go, 241 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:15.039 I'm ready to drop a generic substation in anywhere. And 242 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:18.759 these generic substations are big. These are one hundred megawatts 243 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:20.679 to four hundred and fifty megawatts. 244 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:23.120 So Jerry to just to be clear that what you're 245 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:26.000 doing is you're bypassing the utility. Really, what you're doing 246 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:29.559 is you're going to your industrial customer, whoever it is 247 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.080 an old world chemical company or a new world data something, 248 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:33.759 and you're going. 249 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:34.679 Okay, you're my client. 250 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:37.399 I'm going to build this all for you. Right, that's 251 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:39.320 what you do. So maybe talk a little bit about 252 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:41.120 what is it actually delivered to them? 253 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:41.799 What do you do? 254 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:44.279 You hit the nail on the head, Gerard that what 255 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:46.720 we're saying is the change is not going to come 256 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:49.200 from the utilities. The change is going to come from 257 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:52.360 the load saying here's what we want. Because in the 258 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:56.039 United States, most customers have a right to take voltage 259 00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:58.399 or service at the highest voltage they want to. So 260 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:00.759 if you're a new data center, take service at one 261 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:02.799 hundred and thirty eight kV or three hundred and forty 262 00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:06.279 five kV. What we do is either we go to 263 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:09.600 your site and we own and operate your power system 264 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:13.320 from where it ties into the transmission system to your door. 265 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:16.519 So that means we'll own the underground cable system to 266 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:18.840 get to a substation if we need to, or the overhead. 267 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:22.039 We'll own the substation. We'll then own all of the 268 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:24.840 power distribution on the site, and we drop power off 269 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.120 at your door. In other sites, what we're doing is 270 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:30.600 we're actually going out and finding where that power is 271 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:33.600 ahead of time, and we're pre building those sites. We're 272 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.240 building electrified industrial parks where it's our land and our 273 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:40.159 power system, and you can bring your facility to us. 274 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:43.840 If your bitcoin mining, you can show up with mobile units, 275 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:45.960 drop them off and plug right in. If you want 276 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:47.480 to show up and build a building, you can show 277 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:48.600 up and do that. If you want to show up 278 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:50.799 and build a greenhouse, you can do that. But what 279 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:54.279 we're finding is that that bridge of getting from one 280 00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:57.000 hundred and thirty eight kV or three hundred and forty 281 00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:59.759 five kV down to the four hundred and eighty volts 282 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:04.000 at used at scale is where the bottleneck is five 283 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.679 years if you use the normal system, and so the 284 00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:09.039 only way around that is to get into this mass 285 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:12.720 production standardized parts. And the other nice part of that 286 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:16.039 is now, all of a sudden, if everybody uses that 287 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:19.960 same standard catalog of parts, the cost goes down for everybody, 288 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:23.200 the reliability goes up for everybody, because we now have 289 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:27.360 interchangeable parts. If I only have three different types of transformers, 290 00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:28.720 I can have a spare of each one of them 291 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:31.120 here that can back up any one of the facilities 292 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.240 that we work with, and it's good for all of them. 293 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:36.720 And so what we're really seeing is industrials saying, if 294 00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:40.039 you've got a standardized solution that gets us online faster 295 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:44.279 and higher reliability and more interchangeability. That's very interesting to 296 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:46.320 us because for industrials, they don't get paid more when 297 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:48.840 it costs more. They get paid more when they save 298 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:52.320 more money, and so they're all for cost effective solutions. 299 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:54.559 Can I ask you a little bit about the role 300 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:56.559 of sort of renewables and storage in. 301 00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:00.440 This Yeah, For a lot of the emerging industry, the 302 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:03.960 new guys, their business is about getting a business up 303 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:06.440 and going right now as much as they'll tell you 304 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:08.600 they have a long term plan. There is nobody there 305 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:10.480 who knows what twenty years in the future is. Yet 306 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:14.600 as those companies start maturing, we expect to see what 307 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:18.480 we see with our current customers. Are existing industrials who 308 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:21.919 had factories for one hundred years, is that they start going, Hey, 309 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.879 how do I now also get rate predictability? How do 310 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:26.799 I know what the cost of a kilo one hour is? 311 00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:30.759 And if you want long term rate predictability, renewables is 312 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:33.360 still the best way to do that. You can't get 313 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:35.960 a twenty year natural gas price, I don't care who 314 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:38.919 you are. You can get a twenty year price from 315 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.080 energy off of a wind turbine or a solar system. 316 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:45.159 And so we're helping fifty year old factories now get 317 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.639 to net zero, not match, not twenty four to seven, 318 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:52.759 but like annual netted on an energy basis, which gives 319 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.240 them a huge financial predictability that they didn't have before. 320 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.200 I think you're going to see those new industrials eventually want. 321 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:03.960 And then when you talk about storage, everybody gets all 322 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:08.279 excited about big sexy storage. It sounds great, it looks great. 323 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.320 That's nice, big sexy storage. At the scale of a 324 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:14.519 five hundred megawad data center really doesn't exist in the world, 325 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:16.919 and if where it does, it's just so hard to 326 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:19.639 put into a single site. What you're seeing though, that 327 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:24.039 super attractive and changes the grid is four hour on 328 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.399 rack batteries. If you just have even a two hour 329 00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:31.519 on rack battery on the transmission system, that facility has 330 00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:34.720 so much more flexibility as the grid gets stressed to 331 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:37.480 ride through a one hour event or most events are 332 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:40.360 a five minute event, that just having one hour of 333 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:43.799 on rack storage at the end solves so many problems 334 00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:47.159 for reliability for the grid that that almost like bulk 335 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:51.320 but localized storage is way more valuable than here's a 336 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:54.159 big battery that's only going to really draw down fully 337 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:55.360 once every five years. 338 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:59.399 Before we go into the hardware, there's always a layer 339 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.600 on interest is software cod You see those new type 340 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:06.519 of software, whether you know you build them yourself or 341 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:10.200 the SaaS or are they really better than what you 342 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:11.279 have like five years ago. 343 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:14.240 The first thing I have to admit, Laurent is that 344 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:17.559 most of the power grid when it comes to communication, 345 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:22.799 is really really dumb. We the grid don't talk to 346 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:25.599 each other at all. Well, I've had a thing written 347 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:28.119 on my wall for eight years that essentially just says, 348 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:30.680 how do we talk to each other? Because you can 349 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:32.920 have all the software you want at your little facility, 350 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:35.440 but that's irrelevant if you don't know what the facility 351 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:37.240 next to you is doing, and the grid's doing, in 352 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:39.519 the grid one hundred miles away at the main interconnects doing, 353 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:42.960 and so actually getting the systems where we all talk 354 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:45.920 to each other does not exist in the US period. 355 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:48.160 By the way, we're part of the problem. We don't 356 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:50.640 want to share our stuff with the utilities, and the 357 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.079 utilities definitely don't want to share their stuff with us, 358 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:56.799 and so until somebody forces all of us to talk, 359 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:00.359 the software is all so localized it doesn't matter much. 360 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.880 We're seeing software that's better at manipulating the market. Right 361 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:06.640 it's able to predict when the rates are headed up 362 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:08.799 and shut down ahead of time and try to get 363 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:11.519 you the most cost effective price based on real time 364 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.559 price signals. But that's not reliability, that's not operational, that's 365 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:20.039 just playing the market. And so there isn't enough information 366 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:24.160 sharing to even really have good software to help solve 367 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:28.519 this problem. Right now, most utilities find out that they 368 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:31.279 have an outage on their system. When they get calls 369 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.119 from customers or the smart meter at the house goes down, 370 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:37.359 they don't actually know that a lot of substations are down, 371 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:40.359 and so at least at the bulk power system there's 372 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:43.079 a little bit more communication, but those signals aren't all 373 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.559 being shared with us, so we can predict it. And 374 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:47.759 so what I really think the real question is the 375 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:50.599 software code's not hard. It's the fact that none of 376 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:53.359 us will share information with each other, and none of 377 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:55.480 us have the ability to figure out who owes who 378 00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:58.440 a duty? Do I, the industrial user, have a duty 379 00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:00.440 to help protect the guy next to me? Do I 380 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:02.519 have a duty to help protect the grid? Or can 381 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:05.000 I just be a massively or energy your hog data 382 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:07.880 center and suck everything out and say screw you, keep 383 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.400 powering me. I'm gonna suck it all until you go down, 384 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:13.119 and then I'm gonna be pissed. And so until we 385 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:15.240 all figure that out. Software doesn't do. 386 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:19.440 Much except it does one thing, Jeremy. What it does 387 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:23.799 is enagbors the industrial customer, the new twenty first century 388 00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:27.359 industrial custer, to have cheaper, more reliable power. That's what 389 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.480 enables it to do. Because you can do stuff now 390 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:32.200 that you haven't been able to do almost for the 391 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:34.240 laste hundred years, because we went back a hundred years ago. 392 00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:38.200 You were building the power center beside the industrial lord, 393 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:40.799 and that's changed for one hundred years. You just move 394 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:42.720 a too ca. Buts now we're going back to that world. 395 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.319 Software is enabling you to do that right as well. 396 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:49.319 Yeah, you're able to operate more complicated systems behind the 397 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.559 meter Gerard, that's absolutely true. And you're able to do 398 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:55.720 better things economically for that thing by looking at real 399 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:58.519 time power signals. That's very fair. I just don't think 400 00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:02.119 that solves the overall reliable of the grid problem you. 401 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:07.039