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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Shirley You Can't

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Be Serious podcasts. Jason and I are here at this

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beautiful colony spa resort, and there's an old man trying

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to throw himself into a fire and a young woman

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with a lot of cleavage who's given me the wolf

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I if you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Just don't call me a meatloaf.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, everybody, we are back with part two

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of The Howling versus American Werewolf in London forty years

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old this year part of our Halloween October Spectacular. Can't

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wait to jump back into this.

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Speaker 2: These two movies are spectacular.

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Speaker 3: Love both of these movies.

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Speaker 2: American Werewolf in London versus The Howling.

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Speaker 3: Here we go.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, so let's just talk plot versus plot on

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these two movies, all right, Yeah, okay. So with Howling,

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just for those of you haven't seen it in a while,

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what you get is a woman who is investigating what

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appears to be a serial killer, right right, would come

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in on that, and he is giving her phone calls

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and telling her to meet him at a certain spot

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and it ends up being like a little porno video

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place where you can go and watch the movies in

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the back room or whatever. So she goes in the

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back room and he's in there, and he's there to

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talk her. And then the police, who are supposed to

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be going along, they are showing up pretty late, and

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it's he starts to change in the wolf, although you

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never see that, and then the police show up and

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the young dumb policeman starts shooting through the door, and

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it appears that her attacker is killed. Right for the

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whole movie, almost you think this could just be a

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serial killer, and you've got this investtigation of this serial killer.

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But then she's going through this, she's gone through this

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traumatic experience. She can't remember what's happened. There's this psychiatrist

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who says, you should come to the colony, which is

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where I treat all of my special cases. She and

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her husband go to the colony. They're weird wolf sightings

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that are going on, while meanwhile her friends, the reporters,

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are investigating the serial killer and ultimately they discover his

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body is missing. Right, there's an actor we forgot to mention,

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John Sales. Is the Morgue mortissue?

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I didn't realize that. Who's like eating?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, eating has never bothered me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that is like.

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Speaker 2: The world's worst police work. At the beginning of the helling,

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let's let a woman walk in, lose total contact with

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her hang out with a guy we.

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Speaker 3: Knows the serial killer, right, and where's she going? I'm

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not sure did she turned this which?

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Speaker 2: Wait, it's like the three stooges, right, are trying to

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keep track of where she is.

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Speaker 1: And I think they kind of tried to keep the

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idea that it was a werewolf a little bit of

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a secret, like they wanted that to be kind of

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a reveal that, hey, this is this guy wasn't just

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a serial killer, he was a werewolf. But they think

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they're dropping plenty of hints.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right, his voice changes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, As it turns out he's escaped from the wargue,

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the dead has risen, and meanwhile her husband gets attacked

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by a wolf. And that's when we see the first

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change scene is whenever he starts to change while he's

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making love with this other woman who's obviously also changing.

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We know, okay here there are a couple of were

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wolves involved here, right.

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Speaker 2: Once he becomes a werewolf. The doctor won't let them

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leave because her husband has been bitten. Right, And then

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next thing you know, the entire werewolf colony is focused

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in on eating care.

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Speaker 1: Right. As it turns out the entire colony, who we

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thought were patients are all aware werewolves. Right, That is

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the true big reveal at the end. Even the kindly

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old sheriff Slempickins turns out he's a were wolf too.

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That was so unsettling for me to see slim Pickens

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with those sharp teeth, right, I mean, he was just

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the funny sheriff from Blazing Zaddles to me, I didn't

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want him to be a wolfman. Yes, And ultimately her

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friends come up to rescue her friends come up, one

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is killed, the other ends up saving her by grabbing

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some silver bullets and shooting away, and they ultimately escape,

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but she's bitten. And the final scene is her doing

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a broadcast from the newsroom live and changing into a

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werewolf on live TV.

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Speaker 3: She turns into an Ee walk on live TV.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I found out this is Dee Wallace is doing.

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By the way, she was like, I don't want to

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be an ugly wolf. I want to be a cute one.

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Well fail on both of those. I think you were

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neither ugly nor cute. You were just ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: She looked like Chewbaca's wife. Okay, so a couple of

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things you mentioned that I just want to talk about

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really quick.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Her friend Terry gets attacked I were a wolf. He

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chases her into a cabin. She manages to cut off

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his hand and then you have this sort of flopping

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hand effect that's unsettling, but it does look like a

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kitchen glove a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: We find out later who actually.

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Speaker 2: Attacked her because he's missing his hand. Right later, they

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all get trapped in a barn so that you could

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either kill him by silver bullets or.

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Speaker 1: By fire, that's the only two ways.

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Speaker 2: And her friend Dennis Dugan shows up. He had purchased

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the silver bullets, and they're like, go ahead and shoot

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tough guy, and he's like he's dropping them. They're like, oh, crap, crap,

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silver bullets.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So that's the howling. Yeah, solid storyline, it's really good.

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It's gripping. The reveal that all of the patients are

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actually where wolf's is a pretty strong reveal. Yes, at

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some point, she ends up confronting Eddie Quist again, just

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as she happens to come across his file in the

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medical office, right right, right, And that's when you have

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the big change scene, the most amazing change scene that

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anyone up until April of nineteen eighty one had ever seen.

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That's where we get to reveal that he's actually a

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weir wolf. Even though we've obviously seen some wolf things

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going on, this is really the we see it happen.

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We know what's going on.

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Speaker 2: She gets away by throwing a big splash of acid

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on a space that's just sitting right there, conveniently convenient.

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Speaker 1: Now let's talk about American Werewolf in London, right. It

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comes out six months later, Okay, okay, So storyline for

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American were Wolf in London, right. You got a couple

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of kids who are doing their backpack trip to Europe,

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like a lot of American kids do. They're up in Wales,

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righting on the back of a sheep truck and they

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get warnings stick the roads, avoid the moors to where

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them are.

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Speaker 2: Those are the worst instructions with Dillion, with the were

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wolf of all time.

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Speaker 1: Well, and so they end up at a pub where

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all of the locals are not happy that they're there

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to begin with. The locals eventually relax and start telling jokes,

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and then they ask a question about a pentagram upon

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the wall record scratch it. He calls it a pentangle,

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Thank you pentangle.

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Speaker 2: He calls it a pentangle five point star, and then

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he quotes the wolf man Lon Cheney, right, yeah, And

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I'm looking at it, I'm thinking these people are just

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molly Crue fans.

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Speaker 1: So once again they're asked to leave, and they're warned,

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and there's all of this concern like we can't let

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them go, you can't let them go, And I agree,

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how are you letting these kids go?

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Speaker 2: Not only are they letting them go, they're shunning them.

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They're like, get out right, there's no.

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Speaker 1: Food for you here, so it's to be murded. Then

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then murder is terrible, Yeah, terrible.

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Speaker 2: So then they're just walking on the moors and the

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wolf chases him down and kills Jack yep and bites David.

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For the other one's guilt became so overwhelming they showed

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up with guns right and.

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Speaker 1: Shot and killed Debest right, which I had to wonder.

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I'm like, they got to know this guy, right, shouldn't it.

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I mean, he's not when he's a human, he's not

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just wandering around naked out there. It's their diue, it's

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they they know this guy. It's some drinking buddy, I guess.

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I mean it's kind of weird. That's an unanswered question, right, yeah, Okay,

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So he ends up at the hospital in London. Wounds

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have been dressed, but he's having nightmares.

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Speaker 2: He's also falling in love with his nurse. But he's

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having these crazy nightmares where the movie makes a big

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deal about him being Jewish, and so he keeps getting

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attacked by like these dreams where his family is attacked

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by Nazi werewolves and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Right, this is and that's one of the that's really

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an unsettling scene.

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Speaker 3: That scene is amazing.

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Speaker 1: Dreams may be the most unsettling part of the whole thing,

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other than that Piccadilly Circus car crash scene. But those

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are all kind of based on this movie called The

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Discreete Charm of the Bourgeoisie. If you want, you check

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out people who get lost in a dream within a dream,

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because after that, you know whatever the demon nazis. After

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that dream, he wakes up, he tells the nurse what

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he's just experienced, and she's like, oh, I got just

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the thing for it. Opens up the curtain and there's another

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demon Nazi, stabbing her in her twitching body. And he

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wakes up again because it was a dream within a dream.

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Speaker 2: And that part when he wakes up that second time

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is really funny. After that dream, his dead friend Jack

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comes back and visits him, and he's all torn up

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and bloody, and he's got this little dangling piece of

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skin on his neck and he's like, guess what, David,

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bad news.

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Speaker 3: You're a werewolf.

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Speaker 2: You need to go ahead and kill yourself because I

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can't move on until you die because I died an

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unnatural death.

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Speaker 1: And so it's important that he's having these dreams because

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he's then questioning, is this really happening? Or am I

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just having another of these very realistic dreams? Right? Am

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I just running through the woods naked and biting the

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head off of a deer?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: So ultimately he's released from the hospital. The nurse has

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kind of fallen for him, so she takes him home.

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But it's been at this point about four weeks. It's

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time for the full moon to rise again. Right, And

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so she leaves him at home the next day after

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an interesting shower scene, and he spends the whole day

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board and saying I'm not hungry, until suddenly he's reading

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a book tipping my hand here. Yeah, that scene took

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the howling scene and stomped on it like it was

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a baby.

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Speaker 3: You're spiking the football on that.

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Speaker 1: It's stomped on it like it was an aunt. Okay,

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thank baby's pretty bad thing to say that.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I totally agree. I mean that scene in

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American World of London, Rick Baker made a huge difference,

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and that scene destroys the howling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And so we'll finish the plot and let's just

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talk about those two scenes. Okay, Okay. So he goes

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on a killing rampage. He kills a young couple who

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are going out to meet friends for dinner. He kills

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a man on the tubes, he kills three homeless men. Yeah,

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and then wakes up in the zoo and the wolf cage. Right,

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feels great. Meanwhile, the doctor has been investigating the whole time.

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This is almost like a mystery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because when he's in the hospital, he's like the

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Scotland yard shows up and says, the maniac that you

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fought with must have been very strong. He's like, it

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wasn't a man, it was a wolf.

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Speaker 1: It was a wolf.

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Speaker 2: And the doctor's like interesting, yeah, and he's like, doctor,

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I'm not crazy.

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Speaker 3: He was a wolf.

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Speaker 1: Right, he'said, my memory is fine. So once he's once

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he's managed to get naked from the zoo back over

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to nurse's house. Got American man still my balloon naked

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American men stole. He feels great and he's excited, and

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then the cab driver tells them, would you guys not

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hear about all the murders, people torn to pieces, And

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suddenly he realizes Jack is right, and he tries to

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get himself arrested with success. Then he tells Alex that

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he loves her and runs away so that he won't

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hurt her. He gives his family a I love you

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goodbye phone call, but he can bring himself to kill

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himself right, goes to the movie theater, sees Jack, sees

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his other murder victims, realizes that he's got to do it,

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but it's too late. The moon comes up again. He

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turns into the wolf again. He starts attacking people again.

250
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There's mass chaos, dogs and cats living together, huge scene,

251
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and all of the police are called out with their guns.

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Alex runs down the alley where the wolf is to

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try to communicate with him. We have this brief moment

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where she says, I love you his eyes softened, then harden,

255
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he lunges. The officers shoot and suddenly it's not a

256
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wolf lying dead but a naked David and she's sobbing hysterically.

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And then mob mob dang dang, dang dang and own

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big blob and.

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Speaker 3: Yep, and that was one of roder River.

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Speaker 2: It's big problems with this movie is it abruptly ends,

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and man, it abruptly ends. But I think it's really.

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Speaker 1: Cool, all right, So first let's talk change scene. Okay,

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if you watch the howling first, you're blown away, right, Yeah,

264
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it's amazing. It is not the time laps photos that

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you've seen in all of the other Wolfman movies. This

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is a guy whose flesh inflates. You see the hair

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growing on him, you see his fingers growing, you see

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his nails growing. Rob Botten did a fantastic job, yes,

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but it's also the first time it's ever been done right,

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and so.

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Speaker 2: It's like Galaxy in and Galliga. Yeah, you know, the

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first one, you're like, Wow, this is great, until you

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get Gallagh and you're like whoa.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So first problem. At some point his head stops moving.

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The camera moves to give you the impression that the

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head is moving, but they didn't have a mechanism to

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make the head move, and the change occur as the

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snout is growing. The eyes aren't quite right.

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Speaker 2: That's the problem given for me.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's the eyes, yeah, and the bubbling flashes.

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Speaker 2: It's weird, it's unsettling, right.

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Speaker 3: It looks freaky.

283
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's still an incredible change scene. Yeah, right,

284
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but it's almost as if he's enjoying. I'm glad that,

285
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you know, whatever Rick contributed to this, that might have

286
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come from John Landis's original idea ten years before, he

287
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didn't contribute that this was painful.

288
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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: The guy goes through it and Dee Wallace just has

290
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to stand there and look at it, right, which is

291
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also weird. But I've seen people frozen in fear before

292
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and maybe that's what's going on.

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Speaker 2: One of the main things that you haven't mentioned yet

294
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that I want to point out in the Howling they're

295
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bipedal right, They're on two feet. They're standing there like

296
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a seven foot tall standing werewolf. And in an American

297
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world from London, they're on all fours.

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Speaker 3: It's more like a bear, right, I know.

299
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Speaker 2: John Landis and Rick Baker had this back and forth

300
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and what would be better, what would be scarier? And

301
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up to that point, like the wolf Man and all this.

302
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Speaker 1: Stuff, they're all bipeds.

303
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Speaker 3: They're all bypeds. I love the bear.

304
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Speaker 1: I feel like the wolf Hound of Hell, the Hound

305
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of Hell. Yeah, yes, So it's interesting. Then the Howling.

306
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They had made the movie without showing the full body wolf,

307
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like you saw his head and you would see his hands,

308
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and you would see you saw the change, but it

309
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was all pieces. You didn't see that standing up, full

310
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body wolf. But they ran out of money, right, and

311
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so they went and they said, look at this, If

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you give us just a few more dollars, we can

313
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do the full fledged wolf. And so the full fledged

314
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wolf is the one you see where Terry is being

315
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attacked and she had to go back, you know, weeks

316
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after they had shot the original and do it and

317
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she's like, my hair's a lot longer now, right, And

318
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they're like, nobody's gonna know, they're gonna know. How are

319
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they gonna know they're gonna know? They didn't know. I

320
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had no idea until she said I was like, oh,

321
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her hair is longer. Holy crap. So it was only

322
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after they had done the puppet wolf's the head in

323
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the frame those scenes that they got approval to do

324
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that full wolf standing up. Wow.

325
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Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know.

326
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Speaker 3: That's cool. Okay.

327
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Speaker 2: So the change scene for American World in London, as

328
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,759
we've talked about before, David is sitting there reading the

329
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book and all of a sudden, it's like boom, it

330
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hits him. He's got a splitting headache, like incredibly painful.

331
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He comes out of nowhere and he's yelling and screaming

332
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in total pain. And that was something that John Landon

333
00:16:18,919 --> 00:16:20,879
has created. You're not going to sit in a chair

334
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and just change. It's gonna hurt. And so he's screaming

335
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and changing. He's watching in fear as his hand stretch

336
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and his body grows hair, which Rick Baker talks about

337
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how he was so inventive that he's like, you know

338
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,159
what if we just put hair, poke it through the

339
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skin and.

340
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Speaker 3: Pull it through. So we pull it backwards.

341
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Speaker 2: If we reverse it, it'll look.

342
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Speaker 4: Like there is growing.

343
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Speaker 1: Brilliant.

344
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Speaker 3: Looks great.

345
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Speaker 2: And so they did a scene where David Natoni is

346
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a cutout through the floor and so you have this

347
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weird body attached with his head and his hands and

348
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his arms. Transformation scene is incredible.

349
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Speaker 1: So that scene where you see him lying on the

350
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floor and he's got kind of the main but it's

351
00:16:57,039 --> 00:16:59,960
still his regular face at this point. Yeah, and he's

352
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,399
stairs right in the camera, right, he looks right in

353
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the camera and his eyes are red, no effect. The

354
00:17:05,559 --> 00:17:08,480
eyes were just red because he had been filming all

355
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day long and was completely exhausted.

356
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Speaker 2: That's good. Well, I don't know if we've even mentioned

357
00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:17,039
this ship. But as he's fighting and growing and turning

358
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into a werewolf and his face is stretching all that stuff,

359
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and you see kind of the side of the beast, right,

360
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,279
but you don't get a full on look at it.

361
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You really don't get a full look at it. You

362
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see him in the tubes and just for a second,

363
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,920
just for a second, and that scene is so scary.

364
00:17:33,519 --> 00:17:35,400
I want to talk about that. But before we get there,

365
00:17:35,839 --> 00:17:38,680
the how the sound that the wolf makes in an

366
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:45,160
American warm for London. It's among the most scariest things

367
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:45,839
I've ever heard.

368
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Speaker 1: It's perfect. It is absolutely bright.

369
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Speaker 2: Oh man, in that beginning scene when he's chasing around

370
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,599
the moors and you can't see him but you can

371
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hear him.

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Speaker 1: So we're watching these movies, right, Yeah, and I've been running. Yeah,

373
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And I go early in the morning to run, so

374
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it's still dark outside. Yes, and never i' mean done,

375
00:18:01,599 --> 00:18:04,160
you know, one hundred miles and not been worried about

376
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,680
it until we start doing these movies. I swear I'm

377
00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:08,519
running along and all of a sudden I hear in

378
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:14,920
the bushes in the countryside. I'm like, oh, and my

379
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,880
face was really good for that particular run.

380
00:18:18,279 --> 00:18:19,680
Speaker 3: You're like, what is that?

381
00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:21,880
Speaker 2: How did the Baskerville's Hako's bill?

382
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,680
Speaker 1: So the change scene in the Howling, the head moves

383
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,839
the whole time, like you there's no point in the

384
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,079
change that I can look and I can go, Okay,

385
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,839
Now we are just looking at animatronics. We're not looking

386
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,359
at a human being actor anymore. As his face expands,

387
00:18:38,519 --> 00:18:40,799
I'm like, how do they how they do that? It's

388
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,559
not his He's writhing around as if the pain is

389
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:50,519
incredibly intense as the mouth is extending. It's incredible. It's incredible.

390
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,519
So then we never see him, like you said, we

391
00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:55,920
never see him as the wolf until we get to

392
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,680
the tube scene later that night. Yes, and it's great

393
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,720
because you've got this very tall, gaunt guy get off

394
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,160
of the tube, get off of the subway, and he's

395
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,359
got this moment where he kind of looks around like, Oh,

396
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,400
I'm the only one here. I'm a man, I'm not

397
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:10,759
going to be scared of this, you know. So you

398
00:19:10,839 --> 00:19:14,000
get the subtext to going through. And then he hears

399
00:19:14,079 --> 00:19:16,759
that noise, right, and he's like trying to talk. He's like,

400
00:19:16,759 --> 00:19:20,079
this isn't funny. We're calling the authorities, right, And then

401
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,480
he sees it but we don't, right, and he takes

402
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,119
off running. You can tell he's like, and I'm not sure.

403
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,160
I think it's like a fish eye effect. As you

404
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,759
are the wolf, you are in the position of the

405
00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:33,480
wolf running down the tube, chasing this guy down the

406
00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:37,079
hallways as it goes by. It's just so terrifying.

407
00:19:37,559 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 2: There's not one single person there at this time of

408
00:19:40,519 --> 00:19:41,200
day or night.

409
00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:44,160
Speaker 1: Right, apparently not. It's weird, and so he ends up

410
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,599
collapsing on the escalator, and you've got a very very

411
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:54,519
long moment as he's just laying there apparently incapacitated on

412
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,799
the escalator. I'd be crawling my butt up the stairs

413
00:19:58,039 --> 00:20:00,200
as fast as I get And then you're look looking

414
00:20:00,279 --> 00:20:03,319
at it from the top of the escalator, right, and

415
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,559
you just see the wolf just slowly like it's not

416
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,119
a run in an attack, it's a I know, I

417
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,039
got you step step. And that's the moment we see

418
00:20:14,079 --> 00:20:16,880
the wolf as the wolf for the first.

419
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 2: Time from a long ways away, right.

420
00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 1: And Rick Baker said he knew that that was going

421
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,799
to be a quick cutaway moment. He knew that they

422
00:20:23,839 --> 00:20:25,759
weren't going to show much of the wolf. It's that

423
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,720
jaws mentality of yep, brief clips are more scary, right, right,

424
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,960
And so he said, I didn't want to leave it

425
00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:35,720
up to the editor to pick the right moment, So

426
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,759
I made the face as scary as I could for

427
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,160
that shot, like it was already scary from the get go.

428
00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:44,920
There wasn't any changing going on, you know that with

429
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,839
the animatronics it was scary now, so that he didn't

430
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:49,160
miss it.

431
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,279
Speaker 2: That actor, the one who gets killed in the tubes, yeah,

432
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,200
played big Fortuna who is like Jaba the Huts translator

433
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,720
in the Return of the Jedi. For you Star Wars fan,

434
00:20:59,799 --> 00:21:00,960
jib there, that to me.

435
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 1: Is awesome, weak minded four jama sleepy.

436
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,640
Speaker 3: You will let me in now, I will let you now,

437
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:10,279
same guy.

438
00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 1: And so then we have scenes with the wolf as

439
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,680
the quadruped, like you said. And the way they did

440
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,559
that was Rick Baker thought of playing the game Wheelbarrow

441
00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:21,279
when he was a kid, where you'd hold somebody by

442
00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:23,839
the legs and they'd walk on their hands. Well, he

443
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,559
just created something where effectively that's what was happening. And

444
00:21:27,599 --> 00:21:29,359
then the back legs were kind of attached to the

445
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,440
front legs, so it looked like all four legs were

446
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,799
moving as they would with a running wolf.

447
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,759
Speaker 2: Yes, and you got a puppeteer just making the mouth chump, chump, chump, yep,

448
00:21:38,319 --> 00:21:40,680
and it looked great, looked great.

449
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,759
Speaker 1: Okay, And because of Rick Baker's amazing work on this,

450
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,720
he won the Oscars the first year that they ever

451
00:21:49,759 --> 00:21:53,400
had an oscar for special effects, and Rick Baker won

452
00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:58,440
the first of seven wins and eleven nominations, most of

453
00:21:58,599 --> 00:22:02,359
any person in the world. Nice. Yeah, but they didn't

454
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,519
create the category for American World for London. You know what,

455
00:22:04,559 --> 00:22:08,599
they've created it for the Helling No what the Elephant.

456
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 2: Man, Oh yeah, that's right.

457
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: Which had a young actor in it played the doctor,

458
00:22:13,079 --> 00:22:14,640
mister Anthony Alkins. Yes.

459
00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 2: And the guy who played the Elephant Man was John

460
00:22:16,759 --> 00:22:18,880
Hurt and he was almost had an elector.

461
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 1: And he was also the guy from Alien an Alien.

462
00:22:21,759 --> 00:22:23,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, that guy.

463
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. All right.

464
00:22:24,519 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 2: I got just a few tidbits on these movies that

465
00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:28,480
I want to talk about, and then we can talk

466
00:22:28,519 --> 00:22:30,920
about release reception, final judgment.

467
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:33,079
Speaker 3: Sounds great, Okay, Okay, just a couple of.

468
00:22:33,079 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 2: Tidbits from The Howling.

469
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 3: Okay.

470
00:22:34,839 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 2: One of the scenes at the beginning of the movie,

471
00:22:36,759 --> 00:22:37,519
Dee Wallace is.

472
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:38,279
Speaker 3: In the porn shop.

473
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 2: She was very uncomfortable as an actress in that porn shop.

474
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,759
Speaker 1: Midwestern girl. Yeah. Yeah.

475
00:22:43,839 --> 00:22:46,799
Speaker 2: And it's it's not a set, it's an actual porn shop.

476
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. They used to rule on Yeah, yeah.

477
00:22:48,759 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 3: I saw online.

478
00:22:50,319 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 2: There's some question about which wolf bit Bill, right, like

479
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,000
who bit Bill? At the end of the movie she

480
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,200
gets bid by Bill, her husband, right, so he bites her.

481
00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:05,559
But who bit Built initially and the consensus is it's.

482
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,279
Speaker 1: Marsha Oh that's good. Yeah, that makes sense, right, And

483
00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:10,319
that's how she knew to be out there right, right.

484
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 3: And I don't think there's a right answer.

485
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 2: I just found it interesting that the fans kind of

486
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:14,720
argue about.

487
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: That, right, Okay. Joe Dante does a ton of references

488
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,960
in his movies, right, He's always thrown back to old movies,

489
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:25,200
But in this one he also did a ton of

490
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,240
wolf like throw in, right, he did, Yeah, And so

491
00:23:29,559 --> 00:23:31,799
I think slim pickens might be eating it. And there's

492
00:23:31,839 --> 00:23:35,759
definitely in the cabin is wolf brand chili he is, yep.

493
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,000
And at the scene where she's reaching behind her as

494
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,599
he's changing into the wolf and she's reaching for that acid,

495
00:23:44,079 --> 00:23:46,839
there is medicine right next to it called the Wolf

496
00:23:46,839 --> 00:23:50,039
and Brand Medicine. Okay, And this one I have not

497
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,440
read anywhere else. I found this one on my own.

498
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,759
I'm sure that it's probably out there somebody's you know,

499
00:23:54,799 --> 00:23:57,279
there's just no way you're going to miss this. But

500
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,240
I happen to notice that her husband Bill is reading

501
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,279
a book in bed when she comes to talk to

502
00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:06,680
him and is interested in fooling around, right, And I

503
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,039
looked up the title to the book, and I was like, Okay,

504
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:11,200
well this isn't about werewolves, and I'm like, okay, well,

505
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,960
who's the author? It was Thomas Wolf Nice. That is

506
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,079
a pretty deep that is.

507
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 3: How about this one?

508
00:24:20,039 --> 00:24:23,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dennis Dugan is watching a Looney Tunes episode in

509
00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:27,240
the movie Pigs in a Polka yep, where the big

510
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:30,960
bad wolf was chasing them around. Right, lots of wolf stuff.

511
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,839
Speaker 1: And the funniest line in the movie is in reference

512
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:33,640
to Wolfmanchack.

513
00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 2: That's right. She's talking about hearing a wolf and he says, honey,

514
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,599
you're raised in La The wildest thing you ever heard

515
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:41,440
was Wolfmanchack.

516
00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:45,759
Speaker 1: Right. Okay. So Dick Miller is the one who owns

517
00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:48,680
the bookstore where they find out all the info about

518
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,279
what's real about werewolves and what's not right right, And

519
00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:54,759
as I mentioned before, he had been in a lot

520
00:24:54,759 --> 00:24:56,960
of Roger Corman movies. One of the biggest one was

521
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,640
called a Bucket of Blood. His character's name in a

522
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,519
Bucket of Blood Walter Paisley also his character's name in

523
00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:06,680
this one. In the bookstore, there's a mummified grandmother in

524
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,839
an armchair in the attic of the house. It was

525
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,720
the same one that they used in Texas Chainsaw Massacre

526
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,359
because the guy who did all of the set design

527
00:25:16,599 --> 00:25:19,200
for the Howling was the same guy who had done

528
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,680
all the set design for a Texas Chainsaw Masaker. And

529
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,759
if you go back and watch the Howling thinking about

530
00:25:23,799 --> 00:25:28,079
Texas Chainsaw Masker, it's all the same taxidermy bones hanging

531
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,720
all the same kind of stuff. Wow. Yeh.

532
00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: Texas Chainsaw Mascer based on serial killer ed Gean. The

533
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,359
characters of Norman Bates and Buffalo Bill were based on

534
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,599
Flashback to Our Last Time Psycho.

535
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,559
Speaker 1: Laps Yep and Roger Corman is the guy waiting outside

536
00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:46,079
of the phone booth for her to get done with

537
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:47,640
the phone call from very beginning of the movie.

538
00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:50,519
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, let's slip back over to an American

539
00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:53,480
world in London. I got a few mind blowing tidbits

540
00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:54,119
for you over there.

541
00:25:54,160 --> 00:26:04,559
Speaker 1: I'm ready. That's a marvelous not for a mon dance

542
00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:07,440
with the star up. All right?

543
00:26:07,839 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 2: So do you know the name of the porno that

544
00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:14,319
was shown in the theater when he transforms? Of course

545
00:26:14,319 --> 00:26:17,319
you do. It's called see you Next Wednesday, See you

546
00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:20,559
Next Wednesday. Now, if you've listened to our Coming to

547
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,279
America and Trading Places episode you understand that in all

548
00:26:24,319 --> 00:26:29,079
of his movies, somewhere it says see you next Wednesday.

549
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,319
It also shows up in the thriller video Yes, that

550
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,920
is directed by John Landis yep, and the makeup is done.

551
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 3: By Rick Baker.

552
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,519
Speaker 2: So Kids American World in London gave us thrilling. Michael

553
00:26:41,559 --> 00:26:44,519
Jackson was a big fan movie as and when he

554
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:46,880
went to John Landis, he says, I want you to

555
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:47,640
make me a werewolf.

556
00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: Side note. Stanley Kubrick also a big fan of this movie.

557
00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:51,559
Speaker 2: Really yeah, cool?

558
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 3: Okay.

559
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 2: The music in an American World in London, every song

560
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,839
that you hear has the word moon and the title

561
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,440
in some way.

562
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,839
Speaker 1: Yep. He had picked almost all of these songs back

563
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,240
in the early seventies when he had first written a script.

564
00:27:04,599 --> 00:27:08,039
So you've got Bobby Vinton singing blue Moon during the

565
00:27:08,079 --> 00:27:10,880
opening credits, right when they have the love making scene.

566
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,400
That's Van Morrison's Moon Dance that's playing, Yes, just before

567
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,720
he changes You've get Credence, Clearwater Revivals, Bad Moon Rising,

568
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,279
and then Sam cook sings blue Moon when he goes

569
00:27:23,319 --> 00:27:26,480
through that change seat. Originally, John Landis had wanted to

570
00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:29,599
get Elvis's version of that song, but the colonel said,

571
00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:32,599
no way, So all right, Sam Cook it is. And

572
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,559
then maybe one of the funniest endings to any scary

573
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,119
movie is when the Marcel's duop version of Blue Moon

574
00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:41,680
plays over the ending credits.

575
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 3: Right, that's right.

576
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 2: He also went really strong after Cat Stevens Moonshadow, the sign.

577
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:52,839
Speaker 1: Being followed by the moon Shadow Shadow Shadow.

578
00:27:54,039 --> 00:27:57,759
Speaker 2: And Cat Stevens, who had converted to Islam, said no,

579
00:27:58,039 --> 00:28:00,599
you know, I don't like the subject matter of this. Also,

580
00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:02,640
I believe that there are actual werewolves.

581
00:28:02,759 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: Gulp, mind blown, nice one, thank you, all right. The

582
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,319
score of the movie was actually composed by our old

583
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,880
friend Elmer Bernstein, who we've talked about multiple times Ghostbusters,

584
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,000
Animal House, all of those movies. Ye, Trading places, right, yes, right,

585
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,200
got back into the movies because he was a family

586
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,240
friend of John Landerson's family. There are very few parts

587
00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:29,319
that have his music in it. Usually it's that it's

588
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,079
the popular music that's playing, right, But all of the

589
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,319
dream sequences have his music, and he composed a piece

590
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,279
for the metamorphosis change scene, but John Landers said, no,

591
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,039
We're not gonna do that. Well. Almer Bernstein eventually released

592
00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:48,880
a three minute passage of it and it was called metamorphosis.

593
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: Cool. Here's something that I found. I had to dig

594
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,319
deep for this. David in the beginning scene when he's

595
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,839
on the mors with Jack, he's wearing a red puffy jacket.

596
00:28:58,319 --> 00:29:02,400
That red jacket was select for him because John Landis

597
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,319
wanted that to resemble red riding Hood. Yeah.

598
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: That's great.

599
00:29:06,599 --> 00:29:09,799
Speaker 3: Thank you a great one, thanks, thank you. Okay, you

600
00:29:09,839 --> 00:29:10,720
ready for this tidbit?

601
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: Uh?

602
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:12,759
Speaker 3: Okay.

603
00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: So in the movie, David is trying to get arrested.

604
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,839
Solo throw him in jail so he'll protect people from

605
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,079
him wolfing.

606
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: Out right right.

607
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,599
Speaker 2: So he goes up to a Bobby and he's like,

608
00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:25,240
you arrest me, you jerk, arrest me. I want you

609
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:26,039
to arrest me right now.

610
00:29:26,119 --> 00:29:27,759
Speaker 3: The guy's like, go away, go away.

611
00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:30,359
Speaker 2: He's like, what do I have to do to get arrested?

612
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:34,480
Around here? Queen Elizabeth is man, Prince Charles is a right,

613
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,799
and he's running around going crazy.

614
00:29:37,079 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 3: So he makes a derogatory.

615
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: Comment about Prince Charles Well during the closing credits say

616
00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:46,720
did you see it? So during the closing credits, it

617
00:29:46,759 --> 00:29:52,000
says Likingthroped Films Limited wishes to extend its heartfelt congratulations

618
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,279
to Lady Diana Spencer and his Royal Highness to Prince

619
00:29:55,319 --> 00:29:59,240
of Wales on the occasion of their marriage July twenty ninth,

620
00:29:59,359 --> 00:30:00,359
nineteen eighty one.

621
00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 3: How about that.

622
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: Solid licenthrope licenthrop licenthrope comes that word comes up in

623
00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:08,960
both movies. What is a licen throw?

624
00:30:09,079 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 3: It is they were Wolf. There you go nice?

625
00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: Okay, we talked to composers for American more Wolf in London.

626
00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:18,519
It's important to note that Pino Dinaggio was the composer

627
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:21,160
for this movie, right, Okay, So the way that that

628
00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:23,759
worked out, he had done a bunch of movies, was

629
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:27,599
a big composer for Brian to Palm, but they had

630
00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:30,519
a low budget on this one, and basically they flew

631
00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:33,240
him in, had him watch the parts where they wanted

632
00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:36,640
music cues, and then he flew back out, composed it

633
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,720
all and sent it back to him. There was no

634
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:41,640
meeting there, it was. It was a very thrown together

635
00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:44,559
kind of thing, which I think is hugely important for

636
00:30:44,599 --> 00:30:46,640
these two movies. Okay, So they bring him in to

637
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,400
show him the movie and they're trying to talk about

638
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,160
the musical cues, but he's Italian oka and they don't

639
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,240
speak Italian, right, and so they've got a guy who's

640
00:30:55,279 --> 00:30:58,079
there who's going to help him, but he also doesn't

641
00:30:58,079 --> 00:31:04,039
speak Italian. He speaks Spanish. Well, Pino Donaggio also speaks Spanish.

642
00:31:04,039 --> 00:31:06,680
So you have two guys who are both speaking Spanish,

643
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,359
not their native language, to each other, trying to figure

644
00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:12,480
out the film cues and what kind of music you

645
00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:15,480
want for each of these things, right, which is how

646
00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:17,559
you get the music that you get in this particular.

647
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 3: That's good.

648
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 2: Okay, Before we get to final judgment, d I want

649
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,519
to talk about one thing that we've kind of not

650
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:24,559
covered yet.

651
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: Okay.

652
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: The movie posters for both of these movies are fantastic,

653
00:31:29,519 --> 00:31:30,720
like some of the best ever.

654
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

655
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,599
Speaker 2: So in America and WORLF in London, you have the

656
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,240
two boys in the dark looking over their shoulder, looking

657
00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:40,119
at the moon. They're scared. It's dark, it's scary.

658
00:31:40,279 --> 00:31:43,319
Speaker 3: There's no wolf. Nope, there's no cheesy.

659
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 2: Wolf monster nothing though, just scared, beware of the moon,

660
00:31:46,799 --> 00:31:50,039
right right, it's creepy. Yeah, the howling, you know, it's

661
00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:53,200
one of those things in the old days. The posters

662
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,200
didn't necessarily have anything to do with the movie, huhs

663
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,599
had to catch your eye at the video store. Yeah,

664
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,880
Howling has a female figure hidden by like.

665
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,359
Speaker 1: Some sort of screen. It's like the movie screen.

666
00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 2: And it's like the movie screen, that's right.

667
00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:10,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, And her fingers are tearing through.

668
00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:13,359
Speaker 2: She's got broken fingernails. She's screaming.

669
00:32:13,559 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 3: What is super effective?

670
00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:16,039
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? What is it?

671
00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:17,039
Speaker 3: I don't know, but.

672
00:32:17,079 --> 00:32:19,279
Speaker 2: That caught my eye every time I passed it in

673
00:32:19,319 --> 00:32:21,480
the movie theater or at the blockbuster. The better of

674
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,000
these two, I'm going with the Hewling.

675
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:25,599
Speaker 1: The Howling has the better pressure. Yeah. So I was

676
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,440
thinking about American Werewolf in London, and if you took

677
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,039
out the Wolf where you see the wolf for you know,

678
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,799
flash by at the very beginning, and you take out

679
00:32:35,839 --> 00:32:40,359
the change scene, yes, I would be fascinated, Like this

680
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,279
could be just a crazy person, right, this could be

681
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,759
like we're really trying to figure out is he really

682
00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:49,160
crazy or is he really a weir wolf? And obviously

683
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,319
with the title, you know what you're gonna get, sure,

684
00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:56,200
but it's a very compelling movie even without what could

685
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,519
be its greatest scene. And that's pretty impressive.

686
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:01,559
Speaker 3: That is impressive. I see what you're saying there.

687
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: And I also have to mention the two investigative detectives.

688
00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:08,240
Oh my gosh, we didn't even talk about that. Comedy

689
00:33:08,519 --> 00:33:14,119
Goal Comedy Gold. When he steps back, knocks the bedpans

690
00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:18,839
over it, noisily, tries to stack them together again, and

691
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:22,000
the doctor is like, tell him I died? What? Tell

692
00:33:22,079 --> 00:33:25,559
him I'm dead? Comedy Gold.

693
00:33:26,039 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 2: The guy who's the clumsy cop and clearly the less

694
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,680
experienced cop, he's the better cop because he knows something's

695
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,640
not right right, and the other guy keeps shushing. What

696
00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:43,839
are you suggesting the entire village can talk to the story. No, precisely.

697
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: Okay, I think we've combed these movies thoroughly. Yes, there's

698
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,240
a lot of wolf hair in my comb. Okay, I

699
00:33:53,279 --> 00:33:55,279
think it's time to say final judgment.

700
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 3: Okay, let's go find you go first.

701
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, I love creature feature. Okay, I'm

702
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,480
not so much a slasher movie, but the monster movies

703
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,720
I really love those. Okay, there's a couple of problems

704
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,400
that I have with both of these movies. The howling

705
00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:12,800
you know that you got the worst police work of

706
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,199
all time at the beginning, the idea that this reporter

707
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:17,880
is going to go meet with a serial killer and

708
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,360
a porn shop. It's just a terrible idea, like, no

709
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,519
freaking way that would ever happen. And then her transformation

710
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,679
on screen is supposed to be super impactful and it's

711
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,679
weird and it's it's supposed to be shocking, and it is,

712
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,719
but it would have been better if she had turned

713
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,000
into a wolf, you know, instead of an ewok right, Okay,

714
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:37,280
so set that aside.

715
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: Okay.

716
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 3: American Worlf in London.

717
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:45,199
Speaker 2: Is a super high paced, very slick, fun monster movie.

718
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:45,599
Speaker 1: Yep.

719
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 2: My only problem with it, and it's I think a

720
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,719
big problem. Yeah, there's no mention of silver bullets or fire.

721
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,400
All it is is just the police just shoot this.

722
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 1: Thing, right, Well they mentioned it, what they mentioned silver

723
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,000
bullets when they talk to him in the porn theater

724
00:35:01,079 --> 00:35:03,440
about killing himself. He's like, don't have to have a

725
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,119
silver bullet, and he's like, come on, David, be real

726
00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:08,639
for a minute while he's talking to two people, right,

727
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,000
that's a ridiculous sireny.

728
00:35:10,199 --> 00:35:13,639
Speaker 2: Right, Well, so for me, this is a supernatural curse

729
00:35:14,119 --> 00:35:17,400
that this man is dealing with. He has a supernatural transformation.

730
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,159
The idea that silver would have some sort of supernatural

731
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:23,400
effect on it is not too far fetched for me.

732
00:35:24,159 --> 00:35:27,519
If you just have a bearer running around your neighborhood

733
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:29,480
once a month, would you not just go get your

734
00:35:29,559 --> 00:35:34,159
rifle and go shoot it? Right? So I wish that

735
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,760
they had made a deal about you know, silver bullets. Okay,

736
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,480
so set that aside. Other than that, both of these

737
00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:45,320
movies are both fun, thrilling, exciting. The transformation effects are awesome,

738
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,519
and then settling. I think American Werewolf is more fun.

739
00:35:49,679 --> 00:35:53,639
I find the characters more lovable. I basically fall in

740
00:35:53,679 --> 00:35:56,360
love with Nurse Price every time I watch American Wolf

741
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,599
in London. Sure, there's no extra, it's all killer, no filler.

742
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,159
I am slamming the football down. American Worlf in London

743
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,320
is the best of these two movies.

744
00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:12,679
Speaker 1: Understand, I understand be objectively talking about the two stories

745
00:36:12,679 --> 00:36:15,960
that we have. Yes, if you look at just story

746
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,519
with American Werewolf in London, you have a guy who

747
00:36:18,519 --> 00:36:21,679
gets bitten by a wolf that's a werewolf, who then

748
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,880
turns into a wolf and then gets killed. Yes, and

749
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,079
there's a love interest in that. Sure, And that's the

750
00:36:28,119 --> 00:36:32,639
whole movie. That's the whole story. Look, it's not particularly complex. Okay,

751
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,400
the howling you have what appears to be a serial

752
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,880
killer on the loose who then attacks a woman who

753
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,880
can't remember things, who then has to go to a

754
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,880
colony of patients who in all respects appear to be

755
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,119
there to try to help. She's talking to the psychiatrist

756
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:53,599
that try to help, and investigation is going on about

757
00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:56,920
this weird serial killer and why nobody knows what's going

758
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,280
on with them. And then suddenly at the end of

759
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,719
the movie, after you've had some reveals about these people

760
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,000
being wolfman, you realize, oh my gosh, the entire colony

761
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,599
that she's been at are all where wolves who are

762
00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:12,440
like forming this army to go out and be a

763
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,239
part of the world. That's a much more compelling story.

764
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,440
That story is awesome, But here's the problem. They had

765
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,920
about a million dollars to make that story. That's right.

766
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,960
They had ten million dollars to make American Wear Wolf

767
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,960
in London, which was not as interesting of a story.

768
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:31,159
John Sales did a pretty good job with that script. Yeah,

769
00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:34,280
but it wasn't as well told as the simpler story.

770
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,280
It wasn't as funny, it wasn't as well acted, and

771
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,599
you can see the production value that comes through. And

772
00:37:40,639 --> 00:37:43,199
then the final nail in the coffin for The Howling.

773
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,480
Even though in April it was the greatest change scene

774
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,199
you'd ever seen in your life. Come August we had

775
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,920
Rick Baker's change scene that he had been preparing for

776
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,840
for a decade, and it blew the doors off of

777
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,360
The Howling. And so sorry the Howling. You are a

778
00:38:00,519 --> 00:38:03,920
fantastic movie for a million dollar movie, one of the best.

779
00:38:04,119 --> 00:38:08,519
It's amazing that forty years later, forty years later, we're

780
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:10,920
still talking about this. Ye, that's right, but it can't

781
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,880
compare to what John Landis gave us. And I think,

782
00:38:15,159 --> 00:38:17,960
among the other things that I've already discussed, the key

783
00:38:18,119 --> 00:38:21,679
is it's funnier. And I don't know why the studios

784
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,960
had such an issue, but when you have things as

785
00:38:25,119 --> 00:38:28,719
shocking as what's going on with the murders and the guns,

786
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,159
and the demons and the wolves and all of these things,

787
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,719
you have to juxtapose that with laugh moments, right, it

788
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,760
has to be funny at some points, and John Landis

789
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,760
knew how to be funny. It was great. I have

790
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,559
to agree with you, American We're Wolf in London wins

791
00:38:44,559 --> 00:38:47,559
the day. But you've got to give kudos to the

792
00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:50,639
Howling for doing what it did with such a low budget.

793
00:38:50,679 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 2: Awesome. I totally agree.

794
00:38:52,519 --> 00:38:53,039
Speaker 3: Okay, Dean.

795
00:38:53,159 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 2: This week on our Surely showcase, my good friend Dave Dolphin,

796
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,000
who is on YouTube, is a really gifted video producer,

797
00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:02,480
is super funny. He comes up with these videos. I

798
00:39:02,519 --> 00:39:05,639
think he's calling it documenting my midlife crisis. When we

799
00:39:05,679 --> 00:39:08,159
started this podcast, we called a couple of people, but

800
00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:09,159
he was my first call.

801
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:10,039
Speaker 1: I took him to lunch.

802
00:39:10,119 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 2: He gave me some advice on how to run a podcast,

803
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,760
so I'm super grateful for him. But he wanted to

804
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,280
weigh in on the Michael Jackson thriller versus Michael Jackson Bad.

805
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,840
That's episode one and two that we did a long

806
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,320
time ago, almost two years ago, and here's what he

807
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:24,920
had to say.

808
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 4: Hey, longtime listener, first time caller to the show, thank

809
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,719
you so much for having me on. I love what

810
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,119
you guys are doing, and especially as someone who is

811
00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:37,840
in his late forties in documenting his midlife crisis in

812
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,079
a very public way on YouTube. Part of that whole

813
00:39:41,119 --> 00:39:46,440
process is nostalogia and looking back on previous seasons in

814
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,480
our life. If there's ever an artist in a couple

815
00:39:49,519 --> 00:39:52,119
of albums that just could be the pinnacle of that

816
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,519
idea of thinking back fondly of the eighties. It's got

817
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:59,239
to be Michael Jackson and the Thriller record and Bad Like.

818
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,039
When Thriller came out, I was eight, and so I

819
00:40:02,159 --> 00:40:05,960
was just starting to experience pop music and understand what

820
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,960
it was and enjoying it and starting to have opinions

821
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,480
on what songs I like versus other songs that I

822
00:40:11,519 --> 00:40:15,000
didn't like, and listening to the radio and knowing the lyrics,

823
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,119
and so as I'm experiencing all of this, I remember

824
00:40:19,159 --> 00:40:22,159
the guy coming to the house to install cable television,

825
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,280
and now there's this thing called MTV that I cannot

826
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,079
only listen to these artists that I'm experiencing, but I

827
00:40:29,079 --> 00:40:31,960
can also see them and experience it in that way.

828
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,320
I remember my buddy from down the street saying, Hey,

829
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:35,880
do you want to come over? I have the entire

830
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,880
fifteen minute Thriller video recorded on BHS tape and we

831
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,920
can watch that. I remember this album cover. My parents

832
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,159
had a really large record collection, and they would play

833
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,519
music in the house quite a bit, and this was

834
00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:50,679
definitely a staple of that. And so I remember, like

835
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,880
these songs being played in the house and just seeing

836
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,880
the album cover and everything about this record. There's so

837
00:40:57,159 --> 00:41:01,480
many emotional connections in my life life to this record

838
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,519
that even forty years later, are still there there. They'll

839
00:41:05,519 --> 00:41:07,760
be with me until the day I die. Now fast

840
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,000
forward to Bad, and I'm in middle school, and I

841
00:41:11,039 --> 00:41:13,559
remember a lot of these songs as I go through

842
00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:15,840
the track listing and I listened to it all. I

843
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,400
remember it's like, Okay, Dirty Diana, I remember that sweet Criminal, Bad,

844
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,519
the way make me feel. I remember all these songs,

845
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,960
but not in the same way that I did for Thriller.

846
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,000
Thriller was just creating magic. It was. There were so

847
00:41:29,039 --> 00:41:31,639
many things happening in the early eighties in terms of

848
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:35,280
like where pop music was going and some different influences

849
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,400
that are coming in. You add in this new technology

850
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,880
with drum machines and synthesizers and all of that, plus

851
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,039
Michael Jackson coming off the Jacksons and trying to kind

852
00:41:44,039 --> 00:41:48,440
of be his own person. Thriller was about creating magic,

853
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,599
and then Bad was as the career had just catapulted.

854
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,320
Bad was about maintaining magic, and those are two separate things.

855
00:41:58,679 --> 00:42:03,599
In terms of did Bad maintain the magic. Did it

856
00:42:03,679 --> 00:42:08,400
continue to push his career forward as a creative, as

857
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,760
a performer, as a music icon. I think it did that,

858
00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:13,880
But you think about where he was, like where he

859
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,480
was pushing things forwards. The risks that he was taking

860
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,039
as a creative as a performer had more to do

861
00:42:20,119 --> 00:42:23,320
I think with like music videos, and he was pushing

862
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,000
that forward instead of just being the band performing the

863
00:42:26,039 --> 00:42:29,079
song live. How can this be like a fully produced

864
00:42:29,159 --> 00:42:31,880
movie with a story in all this where my song

865
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,719
is the soundtrack to this movie. He was also really

866
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,199
trying to establish himself as like this sex symbol in

867
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,400
just his place as a music icon in the industry.

868
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,360
And I don't know if that necessarily landed the way

869
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,280
that he wanted to. I mean, you can sing I'm bad,

870
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,079
I'm bad, you know it as many times as you want.

871
00:42:53,559 --> 00:42:56,559
I don't see you as bad. Like you're not the

872
00:42:56,679 --> 00:42:59,880
bad guy, You're the groovy guy. Can you be a

873
00:43:00,159 --> 00:43:03,159
groovy guy? Can you be okay with just being the

874
00:43:03,159 --> 00:43:06,079
groovy guy? Let Billie Eilish be the bad guy. That's

875
00:43:06,119 --> 00:43:09,360
more believable. I don't think it landed, but I do

876
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,920
applaud him for taking those risks. But when it comes

877
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,599
to the album, I think the album was more of

878
00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:18,320
the foundation to maintain that magic so he could push

879
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,800
these other things forward. You know, I have teenagers, and

880
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,239
so they keep me up to speed on like today's

881
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,519
music and a lot of things that's happening in pop

882
00:43:26,599 --> 00:43:31,880
music today with Olivia Rodrigo and The Weekend and Charlie Pooth.

883
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,840
I love where pop music is right now. But if

884
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,840
we're in the car and we're listening to eighties on

885
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,360
eight and a song from Thriller comes on, if they

886
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,480
hear beat It or I want to be starting something,

887
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,159
or Billy Jean or Thriller, like they know these songs,

888
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,320
they sing along beat They weren't even around when it

889
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,440
first came out, and they have these emotional ties to

890
00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:56,760
this record. I don't know if they could name one

891
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,480
song off the Bad record. There's a difference between creating

892
00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:04,280
magic and maintaining magic, and it's no small feat to

893
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,760
maintain the magic after a record like Thriller. But you

894
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,599
just can't ignore the powerhouse that is Thriller. So I

895
00:44:13,639 --> 00:44:16,880
think if this is the battle between Michael Jackson's Thriller

896
00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:26,079
and Michael Jackson's Bad, I think that Thriller wins this one.

897
00:44:28,199 --> 00:44:32,679
Speaker 1: Yes, I feel vindicated. He's all right, You're all wrong

898
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:37,280
as usual. He's a music guy and he votes Thriller

899
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,880
for the same reasons that I vote Thriller. Although I

900
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,800
will say this, my kids are probably more familiar with

901
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,280
the songs off of Bad than they are off of Thriller,

902
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,880
just because of my bad parenting. But he's still right.

903
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: Well, that's interesting. Yeah, Dave was a radio DJ, so

904
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,920
he knows music. He plays in bands. He's a very

905
00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:01,039
gifted musician. But we're not arguing which album had more

906
00:45:01,519 --> 00:45:06,199
cultural impact. Thriller wins the day on that. I'm just saying,

907
00:45:07,079 --> 00:45:10,320
song for song the better album Bad.

908
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 1: You call me crazy?

909
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dave too.

910
00:45:16,039 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: Hey, thank you.

911
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 3: Very much man. We really owe you a lot.

912
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 2: Thanks for all your advice and your help and and

913
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,079
all that, and thanks for weighing in today. Another vote

914
00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:25,519
for Michael Jackson's Thriller album.

915
00:45:25,679 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 1: Be sure and go check those episodes out, and if

916
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,960
you haven't hit the subscribe button yet, if you haven't

917
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,760
hit that follow button yet, be sure to do that

918
00:45:32,159 --> 00:45:34,519
so that you get all of our future episodes as well.

919
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:37,199
Thank you all so much for joining us. We couldn't

920
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:37,880
do it without.

921
00:45:37,679 --> 00:45:40,159
Speaker 2: You awesome, all right, Shirley Fans. That's where we come

922
00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:43,280
down on American worlf in London versus the Howling.

923
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,039
Speaker 1: A mom