Speaker 1: It's been one of the greatest times I've had in
my many years of podcasting, sitting down and sharing conversations
with those that have appeared on NBC's The Voice. But
to find them, where are they? Well, they're now all
in one location. Aro dot net, r r Oe dot net.
Look for the podcast that voice. You doing good, Mark,
I am this morning.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks for having me on the program. I
appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Mark. There's a lot of people that want to talk
with you. I cannot.
Speaker 2: I'll bit you.
Speaker 1: Your Google calendar is just through the roof right now.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm eighty years old. So it's nice
to be wanted have to say. You see, it's nice
to people give a darn about me. So that's I
appreciate that, I really do.
Speaker 1: Where do you gain the access to your courage as
a journalist to be able to do something like this,
because it feels like that over the past fifteen to
twenty years, we've become the what my father used to
say it all the time, don't be a know it all,
just shut up, and it's like, okay, I will, But
yet here you come with abusive power and I'm going, God,
I want to be Mark, I want to have that
courage that Marcas.
Speaker 2: Well, that's very nice of you to say. I really
appreciate it coming from you.
Speaker 3: It all trails back to when I was first of
all a public defender and then a criminal defense lawyer
and trying almost all murder cases and so on and
so forth. That way, I always have stood up for people.
I've always been interested in justice. It's always been the
trademark of anything I've done with regard to my books.
And what I try to do with the books is
makes people stop and think. I don't try to tell
them that I know everything about the subject, and I
haven't done that in abuse of power. But I try
to provide them with primary sources, no speculation, and then
let them make up their own mind in terms of
what happens. And that has failed very well for me.
The other thing that I have done is I never
had any training as a long form writer. Probably the
longest would have been when I filed briefs when I
was the criminal defense lawyer. So what I've always tried
to do is talk to the reader like I talked
to jury's You know, my.
Speaker 2: Language is not that flashy.
Speaker 3: I just I'm not a great writer, but I try
to talk to the reader and let them decide what's
going on, and as far as any courage goes, I
really attempt to do the best research that I possibly can.
For instance, in the new book, one of the earmarks
of it is this whole new material that I found
about Robert Kennedy's assassination in sixty eight, and it always
bugged me because I really didn't believe that Sir Han
could have handled this all himself. And so I'm like you,
I'm a curious guy, and so once you get that
thread of something being wrong, you're going to follow up
on it for sure.
Speaker 1: When you talk about that, you want us to do
our own thinking, my god, you must have been sitting
next to me while I was moving through this book.
Because I am that person. I will go to Google.
I will go to chat GPT. I will because I mean,
you plant the seed, and I feel like that you're saying, Okay,
go for come back to me, go find out you know,
and let's grow together here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I do.
Speaker 3: And you know it's interesting because I really got to
get a lot of communications from readers, because when I
do interviews like this one, I tell them get in
touch with me because over the years, an awful lot
of the clues that I've gotten, just like my guide
guiding Light, Dorothy Kilgallen did.
Speaker 2: When she was a.
Speaker 3: You know, when she was a top reporter and journalist
in New York City. She would look for these clues
and everything. And then I look at those and I
really go ahead and try to follow through and give
the reader, you know, my opinion on things so that
they can then follow through on that. And it's amazing
because I guess I'll shine a little bit of light
on what I've done. But for my presentations and interviews
for the last four books, and I hope.
Speaker 2: With this one.
Speaker 3: There are more than fifteen million views up on YouTube,
and I go ahead and I look at the comments
from people. Some bash me, some tell me I'm crazy,
Some of them this is that way or that way.
But it doesn't matter, because I think our job is
to ask questions and people I want to make sure
I make this point. You know, people ask me about
what the relevance is of looking into events that happened
sixty years ago. Well, of course, the historical angle, and
I try to dispute distortions of history all the time.
But what happened back in the sixties is that people
didn't ask the right questions. They just accepted j Edgar
Hoover's Oswald alone conclusion. The moment that JFK died, they
didn't ask any quit. Now, Dorothy Kilgallen was different because
she did go ahead and do her own investigation. But
for the most part, people like me, who at that
time heard Hoover say it's Oswald, we never questioned any
of that. So what I say to people today is,
you know, you cannot trust the government. You cannot trust
what they're telling us. You must you must go ahead
and ask the questions. You must do your own research,
because if you don't, then you don't have any reason
to gripe. When things happen down the line that you
feel like you should have done something about, you have
to take action.
Speaker 2: See Mark.
Speaker 1: This book is such a tool in this modern age
because there are some major things that have gone down
just in the past six months where we need to
be doing what you said, We need to be asking
those questions. The problem is we keep asking them and
keep bumping into the same clickbait, and that clickbait seems
to be a warrior right now that wants to kick
our butt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
Speaker 3: And unfortunately, this whole new task Force on the declassification
of government secrets that was convened by the president. Congresswoman
Anna Pauline A. Luna is in charge. Jefferson Morley, a
journalist who I don't have much respect for because unfortunately
he just is stuck on the Oswald and CIA material
and doesn't want to look at any alternatives. But what's
happened there is I've let them know about all the
evidence in the new book about Carlos Marcello's confession about
JFK's death, and we can talk about that in a minute,
about the Robert Kennedy shocking new evidence I have that
clearly shows that Sir Hans Sir Han was not accountable
for Robert Kennedy's death based on motive. And so I
try to do that, but you run into these these
I don't know what we call them in Washington, d C. Especially,
who are just not interested in bringing out the truth.
They want to they want to hold up the truth
and not let us know what's going on that way,
and it's very frustrating, as I'm sure it is for
you when you feel like you've got uh, You've got
the goods, you've got the information that can make people
stop and think, and there's roadblocks back there that just
won't let it get through.
Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Mark Shaw coming
up next. Sirhan Sirhan, what side of the fans are
you on the name of the book Abuse of Power?
We are checking back in with Mark Shaw. I've never
believed that Sirhan Sirhan was part of this, and the
reason being this stretches all the way back to nineteen
eighty five when I was doing research in libraries because
I was putting together a radio show that was about
it was about news events, and my program director sat
down with me and said, I don't care what your
opinion is, report the news on this show.
Speaker 2: And it was.
Speaker 1: But yet in my heart and in my research, I'm going,
there's something wrong here, there's there's apps and then and
then now, all these years later, Mark, you come in
here and I'm going, God dang, where was Mark in
nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I wish i'd have I wish I'd gotten
into this sooner. But after I'd written, you know, books
that hopefully expose new material about the Marilyn Roe death
and JFK then Dorothy Kilgallen. I started to think about
how in the world this Carlos Marcello, who had the
strongest motive to have set up the assassination of JFK
based on his his hatred for Bobby Kennedy, who double
crossed those mafioso who helped him win the nineteen sixty election.
How can I figure all of that in of what
I want to think about with regard to when I
look into the Robert Kennedy assassination, and I know that
you'd probably realize because it's in the book in nineteen
eighty five or nineteen eighty six. I always get figured
out which one it is. But Marcello was in a
prison in a federal prison in Texas. He had been
convicted of I think bribing a jur or whatever. The
FBI put a sting operation together. They put a guy
named Van Lanningham into his cell with him, and he
went ahead then and TRANSCRI had a transistor radio with
a recorder inside, and he recorded Carlos Marcelo saying, Yeah,
I had the SOB killed. I'm glad I did. I'm
so sorry I couldn't have done it myself. Now, that
particular document I believe is the most important one ever
exposed about the JFK assassination, but it has been covered
up for so many years that it's interesting now because
people say, Mark, you know, you've you've gone ahead and
you've and you've really exposed all this. Where has it been?
And I have to say to them, it's been out there,
but nobody's paid attention to it. And it's the same
situation then when you look at at Robert Kennedy, I'm
sure you thought of this that with Robert Kennedy when
he's about to become possibly the president of the United States,
and you know that he knows you were the one
that set up his brother for the kill, meaning Marcello,
you cannot let him become president because the first thing
he's going to do is go after you. So there's
the motive. And what I did then is start to
piece together what I believe is strong evidence connecting Marcello
to Sir Hans Sirhan through one of Marcello's underlings, through
evidence that I've found about mar about Sir Hans sir
Han and him being in California, and him being what
I would call the perfect patsy, just as Oswald was
with regard to the jfk assassination and a very close
friend of Dorothy Kilgallen's was when she was murdered. Because
as you know, what the people of the underworld have
always done, they decide that they want to silence somebody, Well,
they're not going to do it themselves because that would
subject them to investigations. So they come up with these patsy's,
and they're people that can be compromised, like Oswald, like
the man that did this with Dorothy Kilgallen, and also Boy,
I hope people will realize in the new book that
Sir Hans Sirhan was the perfect patsy here, and that's
been the pattern that this Marcelo has used through the years.
Speaker 1: So why has this never been taken as being a
form of terrorism? I mean, if they're stepping in there
to answer a call from Carlos, I mean, why is
it not considered terrorism?
Speaker 3: Well it should be, Yeah, it should be because unfortunately,
you know, uh, these powerful people who abuse power, including
for sure, you know who's in the shadow of all
of this arrow is Jay Edgar Hoover. He was right
there when Jack Kennedy died. He wasn't about to let
anybody believe there was a conspiracy or a plot to
kill the president at all. So what does he do
right away? It's Oswald alone. And one of the people
he was protecting was Marcello. Then, when Dorothy kill Gallan died,
he's the one who orchestrated the compromise of this of
this gentleman who was a confidant of Dorothy's, who she
trusted with a lot of the information she was writing
in her columns and everything else about the assassination, and
and and and you know, caused him then to be
able to say to Marcelo and his underlings, look, I
can take care of this if you'll get me forgiven
for all my gambling debts and things like that. I mean,
these patsies are out there. And with Sir Han, I've
been able to show that through a fresh interview that
was done with a paddock captain at Santa Nita Racetrack
in California, that he was right there when Sir Hans
Sir Han, I think it was a couple of years
before Robert Kennedy's death, and this little man walked in there,
very placed placid man and said I need a job,
and this paddock captain said to him, listen, all I
have is a hot walker. It pays two hundred dollars
a month. And the guy said, I will take it.
And then you move on with that thread, and you
look at one of Marcello's hunderlings who basically controlled all
of the racketeering in LA and the racetracks, and you
can go ahead and show that they looked at that
and Marcello and this guy said, this is the perfect
guy for us. And so what we have then is
an eyewitness account just a few days I'm sorry, yeah,
just a few days before RFK Junior RK was killed,
where this man provides the account that he saw Sir
Hans Sir Han in the accompaniment of two what he
called ombres obviously underworld characters who had been thrown out
of Santa Nita Racetrack. And here's Sir Han who's unemployed,
wearing a brand new suit, with one guy on either
side of.
Speaker 2: Them of him.
Speaker 3: And then just a few days later, RFK is killed
and he what does he do? He said, when it's
on the screen in l a television a photograph of
Sir Han, the mugshot. It says, do you know who
this man is? And so this this gentleman, then, who's
whose credibility is beyond reproach, goes ahead and calls the
authorities at Hollywood Park.
Speaker 2: They let the.
Speaker 3: FBI and the and the uh L A p D no,
and he expects to be heard from them the next
day so he can tell him all about Sir Han.
And he's never contacted. And the kicker there then.
Speaker 2: Is, as people will, we'll see when.
Speaker 3: You're trying to connect the evidence in as to who's
responsible what happened for the next year. This gentleman said,
when he and his wife picked up their phone, they
could tell it was tapped.
Speaker 2: The click was on there.
Speaker 3: So what I've tried to do is to take people
on a journey with me in terms of how I've
been able to go ahead and put the evidence together
to show who's most what the most plausible accounts are
for the deaths of JFK. Robert or Dorothy Kilgallen and
now Robert Kennedy.
Speaker 1: You know, the way that you build a story or
put a book together. The one thing that you're really
teaching a lot of people, especially me, is that just
because it made the headlines and it's no longer on
the front page, doesn't mean the story's over. Go to
the beginning of the story. And that's what you're providing
inside this book, abusive power, is that you're taking us back.
We can't get into the present place of now without
there being a story to get here. What is that story?
And that's what you are showing us inside this book
is that there was events before the big event that
changed the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you had it.
Speaker 3: You had it when you said before you didn't really
buy the the Sir Hans, Sir Han orchestrating this his
death of the man who was was that evening he
was so happy he just won the California primary. Onto Chicago,
he goes and everything. And what I said in the book,
and it was one of my better writing, was that
just as he was done with his speech, the long
arm of Carlos Marcelo, who hated him more than JFK,
reached out and grabbed, you know, grabbed Bobby Kennedy by
the throat, and instead of a smile on his face,
it was a look of death. So what you can
do is, you know, you were right. I mean, just
people need to use common sense about a lot of this.
Let's take the Epstein case, if you don't mind, because
this Task Force on Government Secrets, they were supposed to
look into the JFK assassination, the Robert Kennedy assassination, Martin
Luther King, and Jeffrey Epstein. They haven't gone forward with
any of those incidents in the are important places in
history to the point where any news is coming out.
I mean with regard to the JFK assassination records that
came out earlier this year, all they've been able to
prove through that is that the CIA was conducting dirty tricks. Well,
we've known that for sixty years. That's nothing new, and
they haven't been able to go ahead and put any
connection between the CIA, Oswald and JFK's death. I mean, unfortunately,
as one of my colleagues said to me the other day,
that task force, unfortunately is just political theater. They're just
going through the motions. And I'm afraid that's what's going
to happen now with the Epstein files. Because I will
just say this right to you. The moment that I
heard that Epstein hung himself amidst suicide. I would I would.
I wasn't even possible to believe something like that. So
what somebody has to do, just to give you an example,
You've got to go all the way back then and
look at the powerful people he was involved in, including
it looks like the president and other people, and see
who had the greatest motive.
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of them out there, I think
a lot of them out there.
Speaker 3: And see who you believe had the strongest motive, and
then start from there and go ahead and see who
you can connect into that jail cell that would have
gone ahead and have been able to orchestrate his supposed suicide.
Speaker 2: Mark.
Speaker 1: You know, people are going to grab this book Abusive Power,
and they're going to instantly compare to where we are today,
and they're going to see these three suicide attempts and
or suicides with what went on with the before the
presidential election, what went on with Charlie Kirk, what went
on with United Healthcare. None of us believe that because
all that information has disappeared mysteriously, and it's like, where's
the team that's going to uncover this Mark. You're you're hired,
We need you to write that next book.
Speaker 3: Well, here's here's the word they use though, And this
was said by Congresswoman Luna who I think has good
intentions and has been waylaid by this jeff Jefferson Wood.
She said, we are tired of all of the deceptions, untruths,
all of these kinds of things with regard the JFK assassination.
And this will be a task force that will deal
and focus on transparency. That's the word they use, transparency,
And it makes everybody believe, oh my goodness, this is
so wonderful. We're going to find out exactly what happened.
And then they just reverse themselves. And what happens, unfortunately,
is that when people have a conclusion that they want,
and this happens with a lot of journalists these days,
then they get a sensational headline. Then they try to
fit the evidence they have to that instead of going
out going out and finding the evidence and figuring out
if you've got that headline or not.
Speaker 2: But in this world of fast breaking news.
Speaker 3: And all of that, an awful lot of people are
not interested in and they certainly certainly weren't interested back
in the sixties.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's so many different angles we can take.
But if I if I forget this question, I'm going
to step on my foot for the rest of my life.
You you openly admit that the Warren Commission was corrupt,
and of course where does my mind going that Gerald R.
Speaker 2: Ford? Okay?
Speaker 1: So what was he put in that position to continue
hiding the Warren Commission's efforts.
Speaker 3: Well, in the new book, you're going to see an
abuse of power. You're going to see that I included
uh and if these things sometimes are right out there
that people could look at, go into the internet and
there are accounts of lbj and and UH and uh
Jaegger Hoover audio tapes of them talking about who they're
going to put on the on the Warren Commission, and
what they're trying to do is obviously find people who
will go along with what they say, which was Oswald alone.
And so what you do is you in fact, they
talk about Jerry Ford in there, that he's not somebody
smart enough that's going to cause him any problems. It's
a guy who became president of the United States, Okay.
And then there were only two problems that they had.
One was Senator Richard Russell. The other one was Senator
John Sherman Cooper, who Dorothy Kilgallen knew and found out
all about the corruption from them, and they were a
stick in the mud because they wouldn't go along with
the final report of Oswald alone and everything. And so
they had to go ahead and permit them, and just
think about history being changed here because they permitted they
said they would permit them a dissent and in the
in the in the final report that said this, this
silver bullet theory didn't make sense and all of that
they believed Lyndon Johnson, And of course when the report
came out, it wasn't in there. I put those descents
in the book because I want to see how people
to see how history would have been changed if those
descents would have been in there, because it would have
made people stop and think. There probably would have been
more investigation. But what you do is when you have
people who are against what your theory is, they will
go ahead and just ignore that theory and present whatever
thing they want to do to make their point.
Speaker 1: Who do you take this to today in the way
of we don't have a DOJ, we don't have an FBI.
Marjorie Taylor Green would be somebody that is starting to
make a voice. But I don't know if that's somebody
I trust yet. But I mean, who do you take
this too. To really start making some.
Speaker 3: Waves, it has to come from the American people who
read books like mine and decide to go to Congress
or whatever.
Speaker 2: One thing.
Speaker 3: I will tell you that with all the new evidence
I have about sir Han not being accountable with regard
to Robert Kennedy's death, I'm putting together a game plan
with some attorneys who have been involved in sir Han's
case for years, and we're going to take our evidence
into the probably the LA District Attorney or the Attorney
General in California or whatever it may be, and try
to get a situation where this conviction of his can
be set aside and this man released from prison because
he's been there. He's eighty one years old, and this
man should not be in prison for something that he
did not do at all.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So there's a photograph I would love to have of you,
And that photograph is you standing in the mirror holding
this book up to the mirror, and behind you is
everything that's taking place in the world today. Because this
is an I this is an eye on where we've
been and where we presently are, and in my heart
it's all connected.
Speaker 3: Dude, Well it is, and it isn't that sad? I mean, yeah,
people deserve justice, whether it's somebody on the street corner
who gets mugged, or it's Robert Kennedy or jfk or
Dorothy Kilgallen or even you know people today who deserve
that kind of just I think that the politicians today
and a lot of the law law enforcement people and
all especially those in the new administration, forget that word.
Speaker 2: They forget that people deserve justice.
Speaker 3: And I will fight as long as I can to
try to get you know, the justice for them. But
if people listening to your broadcast here get upset about this,
then they need to contact their congressmen, or they need
to send letters to the task Force or whatever, because
they can make a difference. We don't think we can sometimes,
but I'm telling you it can make a difference if
they hear from you.
Speaker 1: I would love to see the numbers of how many
people who, in their heart all of these decades have
always said, oh it's the coast in Austra, it's the mafia,
and then all of a sudden, here comes your book
and you're giving us Carlos right here in front of us.
But now I have to sit here and wonder, all
of a sudden in the past two to three months,
what has happened. All of a sudden, the so called
Italian families are back in the news because of the lottery.
I'm going, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa? Are they creating
a smoke screen here because they're so something we should know,
but we can't let them know because they're busy doing
something else.
Speaker 3: Yes, And and isn't it sad that now the whole
gambling uh you know epidemic has hit the sports scene
to where they're they're they're fixing card games, and they're
fixing dice games, and they're fixing ball games and all
this kind of stuff. I mean, I was shocked when
I saw some of the same names in there. Uh
you know that we knew about years and years and
years ago, the families and all of that, and they're
out there. We just they just haven't been as as
us as clear to people. But they're still out there.
And and the other thing that bothers me is that
we are now in a situation where multimillionaires and billionaires
are controlling Congress and controlling the presidency. And any time
you have those kinds of people, whether it's Musk or others,
advising people and getting getting things done, and you give
them that much money, you're going to expect favors. And
that's what concerned me more than anything too about right now,
because you know, you.
Speaker 2: Can just see it.
Speaker 3: It's running rampant with regard to some of these people
who are, you know, paying for things for the government,
and they're going to expect something in return, just exactly
like the mafia does. I know. A long time ago,
I was very tempted. Some mafio also got in touch
with me because one of their members was charged with
murder and they want me to represent the guy. And
I wanted to, but I knew if I did that,
they would always be in control of me.
Speaker 2: And that's what happens in Washington.
Speaker 3: Now. We got to really watch as far as all
these these wealthy people conducting our government instead of those
that should be responsible.
Speaker 1: I know you've got a billion people you have to
talk to today, but if I could have just one
more question and.
Speaker 2: Take your time, I really enjoy this, Thanks for listening
to me.
Speaker 1: Well, one of the things that you can't help but
put focus on is the fact that why is it
that we have evolved into this generation? Because you and
I are both we're up there in age. I will
always say I'm a seventeen year old, but history tells
me differently. But the thing is is that why is
it that the elder generation seems to be in control
of where we grow, where we're growing with history, when
in the past my grandparents just faded away. It's almost
like we're stepping forward, going the hell, this is not
going to happen on what little time or how many
summers I've got left. We're going to make a voice
today and we're going to grow forward.
Speaker 2: We're well said, well said, and that is the state
of affairs.
Speaker 3: Now. What I've been encouraged by with the books that
I've written, including Hopefully a Abuse of Power and the
Reporter Are doing too Much and those kind of books,
is that young people get in touch with me. Yeah,
and they're upset about what's going on, and those voices
need to be heard now. Unfortunately and awful, the a
lot of young people don't read books anymore. And their
smartphone is stuck to their nose. But there are people
out there who care, and I think they need to
make their voices heard so that you know, because that's
that's what didn't happen back in the sixties for sure,
and unfortunately we see that occurring now. So I just again,
I'm encouraging people to read the book. Doesn't matter if
you agree with me or not. Get in touch with me.
My website's markshawbooks dot com.
Speaker 2: My email is.
Speaker 3: Mshawi and at Yahoo and I answer every single email
I get. Whether you like what I write or not,
or you want to object to it, Please get in
touch with me because you can make a difference. And
if I if you tell me something that I can
forward to the politicians in New York or in Washington
or whatever, I will do.
Speaker 1: So I can't wait to talk with you again. I
just love where your heart is. You are that next
level of where journalism is supposed to be growing, and
you're taking it there by being here with us, you
physically see us, and that just blows me away.
Speaker 3: Well, you're you're doing the world such a great service.
Thanks for the pat on the back, But you're a megaphone. Okay,
we're megaphones and you're doing I can tell with you
that you're a man of the truth and you want
to go ahead and spread that truth as much as
you can.
Speaker 2: So I have great praise for you.
Speaker 3: I don't know you personally or anything, but if I
ever get a chance to see you, I will shake
your hand because you're making a difference with this, and
you're encouraging people, and you're providing the facts and so
on and so forth that way, and hopefully many of
the people who listen to you are going to go
out and make a difference.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, please come back to this show anytime
in the future. You are the man. And I don't
mean that as being the boss that you know sends
out that email it says demand now. I mean that
that you truly are a leader here.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for letting me tell my stories, and hopefully
people through you and I and everything will get people
to take action because we need that for sure these days.
Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today? Ok?
Speaker 3: Mark?
Speaker 2: All right, thanks so much, bless you and have a
good Thanksgiving