Speaker 1: Lents side.
Speaker 2: We call the winds the loud and right by the same.
Speaker 1: Of the lads, we stand as one in a low being.
Speaker 3: On nighty four we hadle in hand, strike down the pear,
Speaker 3: protect this land. Oh it's all father, seeker for so
Speaker 3: guide our souls to the sacred rhythm.
Speaker 2: Franks, Queen of the Heart's home with love and grace
Speaker 2: makes a soul.
Speaker 1: Sir, just with your eye might.
Speaker 3: Guide us through the darken night hell. The mistress of life, Banta,
Speaker 3: show us the path with every breath, pray out gars
Speaker 3: of love and more.
Speaker 1: We honor you know and forever more.
Speaker 2: Than us to lease us.
Speaker 3: We call the rooms we seek you goals useles right
Speaker 3: o't care.
Speaker 2: We say away loco.
Speaker 1: Weensas three.
Speaker 2: Wis Hey there? Did you know that this podcast as
Speaker 2: a supporters club.
Speaker 4: By becoming a supporter of the show, you gain access
Speaker 4: to exclusive content and play an active role in helping
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Speaker 4: See the link in the episode description for more details.
Speaker 4: Now let's get back to the episode.
Speaker 2: Welcome and welcome all. Welcome, I'm back to the Gray
Speaker 2: Horn Pagan's podcast. Uh and for those wondering, Yes, I
Speaker 2: am incredibly sunburned. Thank you for noticing.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And today my guest is Andre Host. I've been following
Speaker 2: him on Instagram for quite a while. He's all about
Speaker 2: all about the rooms, and since I am doing more
Speaker 2: with the rooms, I thought, why not invite the one
Speaker 2: guy that I know who is all about it, who
Speaker 2: knows all about it. And yeah, like we got it
Speaker 2: scheduled in two days, like we confirmed it last last Monday,
Speaker 2: like it was rather quick. So yeah, like, first of all,
Speaker 2: thank you for for coming on. And for those not
Speaker 2: familiar with with you yet, and you know they should be,
Speaker 2: so yeah, introduce you have a little man like what
Speaker 2: do you do? What are you about? Aside from you know,
Speaker 2: the rooms of course?
Speaker 5: Okay, I I'm Andre you still like you just said,
Speaker 5: I'm an author tattoo artist during the day.
Speaker 1: That's my day job, specializing in Nordy art.
Speaker 5: And yeah, I'm a magician, witkey, wizard, whatever you want
Speaker 5: to call it. I suppose most people online know me
Speaker 5: as Norse runa where I do like buying rooms and
Speaker 5: Nordic art designed mostly for tattoos, t shirts, stuff like that.
Speaker 5: Do a few courses as well. I've got a Rooin
Speaker 5: course going on at the moment. Yeah, I've been into
Speaker 5: ruins for like more than.
Speaker 1: Quarter of a century. Actually.
Speaker 5: The other day I went to my family home and
Speaker 5: went for old boxes and stuff, and I found the
Speaker 5: first book of rooms that I bought, and luckily it
Speaker 5: had like a little price tag on with the date,
Speaker 5: and it's nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 1: So yeah, quite a while.
Speaker 2: I was three years old in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 1: I think I was fourteen or fifteen something like that.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, oh, but that's that's young to like get
Speaker 2: into the Yeah.
Speaker 5: I was always kind of like interested in like the
Speaker 5: occult and sigils and stuff like that, and I don't know,
Speaker 5: run's just kind of spoke to me. It's like everything
Speaker 5: I read was kind of like something I already knew.
Speaker 5: It was just someone saying it again.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, So like knowledge that you in a way
Speaker 2: already possessed, but for good you felt something.
Speaker 1: It really felt like that. It felt like someone's like, hey,
Speaker 1: do you just remember this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh that's interesting. I've actually I've heard that before recently,
Speaker 2: not not sure where, but that you know, like reading
Speaker 2: a text and it's like I know this, like I
Speaker 2: already knew this. Yeah, well this is the first time
Speaker 2: I'm reading it, like I shouldn't.
Speaker 1: Know this, It's like that's that's exactly Yeah, that's exactly
Speaker 1: how I felt about the rooms.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so like a true true blood memory of
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: So, I think I think it does have to do
Speaker 1: with with heritage and stuff like that. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's a closed practice by any means, but I think
Speaker 1: it does help in a way.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a lot of people will. I mean, there
Speaker 2: there are all sites. Of course. I'm quite curious how
Speaker 2: you think about this obviously, like you just said, like
Speaker 2: you don't think it's a it's a closed practice, but
Speaker 2: like do you think anyone can learnt the rooms or
Speaker 2: is it?
Speaker 1: Like yeah, in a way, I do think that, but.
Speaker 5: Like, for instance, like I kind of knew it, like
Speaker 5: it's like someone just telling me what to remember. I
Speaker 5: don't think if you have no cultural reference to it
Speaker 5: that you'll have that, but you can still learn about it.
Speaker 1: I mean I can learn voodoo or who do or whatever.
Speaker 1: But I don't have any Western African do say, well
Speaker 1: that I know of?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean you're you're quite pale from that
Speaker 2: obviously nowadays, that doesn't mean anything anyway, that.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean anything. No, true, true No.
Speaker 2: I actually, like just a few weeks ago going into
Speaker 2: we've going into week three or week four on my Patreon,
Speaker 2: I've been reading The Night Side of the Rooms, Okay,
Speaker 2: which is a it's a really interesting book, but it
Speaker 2: really takes it from a like in occult perspective, nicala
Speaker 2: like connecting the ruins with like Gabala obviously with numerology
Speaker 2: even and making a lot of sense. So it's it's
Speaker 2: pretty it's really interesting.
Speaker 1: I've heard about that, but I haven't personally read that book.
Speaker 2: Oh I can. I can definitely recommend it. It's I mean,
Speaker 2: the first chapter is a little frustrating in the way
Speaker 2: that you know, in in in how it's written, it's
Speaker 2: kind of confusing, like it will repeat itself or contradict itself.
Speaker 2: But then we actually go into the ruins. It's it's
Speaker 2: quite ill elaborate, and I I'm enjoying it so far,
Speaker 2: and I want to touch on you, Like you said,
Speaker 2: you were also doing bind rooms, which is very very popular,
Speaker 2: and especially if you look on sites like uh Pinterest
Speaker 2: for example, which is a free for all. Really everyone
Speaker 2: just seems to make up their own bind room. I
Speaker 2: know that our i'd my my right hand man in
Speaker 2: the in the tripe has created a as created one
Speaker 2: for you know, for the growing or pagans. But like
Speaker 2: he did it all officially and you know, blooded it
Speaker 2: and did the whole thing. But can anyone just you know,
Speaker 2: squeeze a couple of rooms together make it look pretty
Speaker 2: insane here's a blind room? Or is there like actually
Speaker 2: more to it with the chance of like disappointing all
Speaker 2: the pinterest gurlies.
Speaker 5: Technically, I suppose you can just anyone squeeze anything together.
Speaker 5: But the thing is, the rooms aren't just letters. I
Speaker 5: mean they're spirits. They're that their entities you should have
Speaker 5: a relationship with. It's like calling on the gods or
Speaker 5: the ancestors or something. You shouldn't call on them if
Speaker 5: you're not gonna listen. So if you're just gonna treat
Speaker 5: it as like an alphabet, yeah, it's I get so
Speaker 5: many clients in my tattoo practice. I get so many
Speaker 5: clients that.
Speaker 1: Bring me these behind dreams and it's like it really
Speaker 1: doesn't say anything. I'm sorry. It's like they're treating it
Speaker 1: like it's initials or something and or they're trying to
Speaker 1: write some thing in English in like elder who fork,
Speaker 1: which is for like proto Norse. Yeah, you've you've got
Speaker 1: to know your stuff, I suppose.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean the translation translation is difficult as
Speaker 2: it is, especially you know, in in context.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the thing is sorry.
Speaker 5: No, I think it's very difficult with if you use
Speaker 5: the wrong runing system for the wrong language, for English
Speaker 5: or well any modern language. Really, I'll say it's the
Speaker 5: safest bit to use like medieval Runes, which is kind
Speaker 5: of like younger through farc with stunge rouns and stuff,
Speaker 5: because the sounds is different. You can't use something that's
Speaker 5: meant for old Norse and just all of a sudden
Speaker 5: right English with it. So you've got to have the
Speaker 5: write runic system for the language that you're going to
Speaker 5: use as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like it almost sounds like people are treating it like
Speaker 2: like the Chinese and Japanese character tattoos that you'll sometimes see,
Speaker 2: like thinking it means something just incredibly profound, while you
Speaker 2: know they just tattooed like chicken soup or something.
Speaker 5: True story, a friend of mine, I didn't do the tattoo,
Speaker 5: by the way, but a friend of mine got something
Speaker 5: on the back of his shoulder that says the path
Speaker 5: of the Righteous Warrior, and he went to China.
Speaker 1: It says two spring rolls please. They literally copied it
Speaker 1: off me. Oh that is.
Speaker 2: Not the same.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so yeah, it is kind of like that, like
Speaker 5: that eighties nineties tribal tattoo fad. That's almost what bind
Speaker 5: rooms are becoming these days. I suppose I've been dressed
Speaker 5: and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Oh no, that's terrible, that's terrible. I mean tattoos like
Speaker 2: that was already terrible when it was a.
Speaker 5: Trend yay, oh man, all No, tribal tattoos is kind
Speaker 5: of what got me into my whole Nordic artwork, because
Speaker 5: the thing is, when I started tattooing, there was this
Speaker 5: like nineties tribal neo tribal, which doesn't really mean anything,
Speaker 5: doesn't come from any tribe, it's just supposed to kind
Speaker 5: of look a little bit tribal. And my problem was,
Speaker 5: you get stuff for different African tribes, you get stuff
Speaker 5: for New Zealand, you get a lot of tribal stuff,
Speaker 5: but at that time you didn't really get European tribal
Speaker 5: and well, it wasn't common knowledge factor that way, and
Speaker 5: that's kind of what got me into it.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, oh interesting, Like yeah, it's it's always if
Speaker 2: it's like actual tribal, it's always some other country and
Speaker 2: like yeah, a lot of African, a lot of like
Speaker 2: rc KEI we Yeah. So but then what is European
Speaker 2: tribal like?
Speaker 5: Is that like, well, we're not really a thing. It's
Speaker 5: it's kind of like Nordic work. It's like not work.
Speaker 5: It's Nordic or Celtic not work. Really some Slavic designs
Speaker 5: I suppose as well, But yeah, it's it's it's mostly
Speaker 5: not work based.
Speaker 2: So not like it's it's tribal, but it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not really tribal.
Speaker 5: But that's the closest thing that that they got when
Speaker 5: they were living in a tribal society.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, so that is what what got you
Speaker 2: into tattooing. Oh that's you don't hear that often. Actually,
Speaker 2: how long have you been tattooing for?
Speaker 1: About twenty two years? Well next week I'll be forty three.
Speaker 2: Wow, okay, that is that's quite a while. And you
Speaker 2: do like a lot of a lot of rooms.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I try to I do everything really. I
Speaker 1: don't do only Nordic work exclusively, but I do specialize
Speaker 1: in that, so I do a lot of rooms, a
Speaker 1: lot of notwork sleeves and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So are there any like when I a client
Speaker 2: comes to you and ask you for, you know, like
Speaker 2: a Nordic tattoo in like the most general sense, Like
Speaker 2: you know, you have those people to like, oh I
Speaker 2: want a Nordic tattoo.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yeah, but they don't have any clue what
Speaker 1: Nordic tattoo.
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, but what do you want? Like are
Speaker 2: there any free requisites? Like can it just be like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, I just think it's really cool, or is
Speaker 2: there like a kind of a checklist.
Speaker 5: Or whatever the client wants he gets really, I mean,
Speaker 5: I can give him directions and normally if he has
Speaker 5: no clue what he wants, sometimes they don't even know
Speaker 5: on what area they want the tattoo, I'll sit them down,
Speaker 5: have like a little consultation with them, say for like
Speaker 5: fifteen fifteen minutes whatever, and just talk about random stuff.
Speaker 5: If he doesn't even know anything of Norse mythology anything
Speaker 5: like that, just ask him what's your favorite animal? And
Speaker 5: you can built like a whole.
Speaker 1: Body suit basically based on that.
Speaker 5: I mean, there's such cool Wolf designs or Raven designs
Speaker 5: or stuff like that. Yeah, so I try to inform
Speaker 5: them as much as I can, but yeah, sometimes they
Speaker 5: just want to get something because it's pretty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that you know that works like Wolf
Speaker 2: and Raven. I I actually have those on my Yeah,
Speaker 2: I got the cool for my for my wife. That's
Speaker 2: her spirit animal, guardian animal. And then like, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's cool, but okay, and those are the the two
Speaker 2: biggest projects, the two biggest ones that I have. And
Speaker 2: I have a design that I still need to get
Speaker 2: needyet inked, which is kind of in the same thing. Actually,
Speaker 2: Like now that I'm talking to you, I would I
Speaker 2: kind of like your advice, and I like, I have
Speaker 2: a design of Orman Gander laying around that I need
Speaker 2: to get tattooed, which is, of course you know, it's
Speaker 2: a child Loki. We all know Loki. He is chaos being.
Speaker 2: Would you recommend like getting like a literal child of
Speaker 2: chaos tattooed on you?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well it depends on you as well on you personally,
Speaker 5: but I would I would love that.
Speaker 1: I actually have quite a.
Speaker 5: Relationship with like Norman Gander human fain Rear or her
Speaker 5: and fain Rear.
Speaker 1: I they're not all bad. There's some good in it.
Speaker 5: Norman got there isn't just unbridled chaos. It's kind of
Speaker 5: like the order that holds the world in place as well.
Speaker 1: And stuff like thin Rear. He's not just the crazy
Speaker 1: wolf that eats everything in his sight. I mean he
Speaker 1: got bound up for how long and restraint in everything,
Speaker 1: and now he's breaking loose and becoming the higher self
Speaker 1: that he's got to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I suppose in all of these like evil creatures
Speaker 1: or whatever, you can see see the good in it
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, fair enough, like especially with family year Like
Speaker 2: if you you know, would buying me for I don't
Speaker 2: know how many years and I finally break free, I
Speaker 2: would go him as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I mean you got bound just because they
Speaker 1: were afraid of you, not because you did anything. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah like that.
Speaker 2: I I love the like the irony and in that hole,
Speaker 2: in that whole tale, it's like he's making it happen,
Speaker 2: Like he's making the premonition happen by trying to prevent
Speaker 2: the premonition.
Speaker 1: Probably he wasn't going to do anything.
Speaker 2: No, but like actually by actually you know, betraying him,
Speaker 2: deceiving him, trying to you know, stop that future from happening,
Speaker 2: he makes it happen, which is just beautiful irony. Really,
Speaker 2: I mean absolutely sucks because you know, racking rock. Yeah,
Speaker 2: not a good thing, but it's just the the the
Speaker 2: irony is is beautiful. I feel, would you deny like
Speaker 2: certain clients, like just for like Nors or just anything, like,
Speaker 2: is there stuff that you just absolutely will not do?
Speaker 5: So far, I haven't really encountered anyone that wants something
Speaker 5: that crazy people obviously wanted stuff that I wouldn't get
Speaker 5: on myself. But I don't think anyone really is in
Speaker 5: a position to tell you, hey, you're not allowed to
Speaker 5: get that or think that or whatever.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean because you like you just said that.
Speaker 2: Sometimes people like they don't even know anything about Norse mythology,
Speaker 2: but they want like a Norse themed tattoo. And I mean,
Speaker 2: like I'm you know, just more of her client, more
Speaker 2: of her canvas. Well, like I'd say, well, if you
Speaker 2: don't know anything about it, then you know, like why
Speaker 2: why get one just like just because you think it's
Speaker 2: a pretty picture. I mean, yeah, I get it, it is.
Speaker 2: But like if you could, like you can choose any
Speaker 2: thing really, so why Norse mythology, I would, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of question that.
Speaker 1: The thing is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if if that's kind of got no interest in
Speaker 5: it and they don't want to learn or anything like that,
Speaker 5: I'll do something like the animal thing that kind of
Speaker 5: Norse fiend and kind of looks.
Speaker 1: The way the client wants. But that's not really something
Speaker 1: out of the Adas or the Sagas or anything like that,
Speaker 1: something that's not really well religious.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, so you just find like some middle grounds.
Speaker 2: It looks like it. You can tell all your friends like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, I got this cool wolf tattoo because I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh norus stuff and whatever you're you know, but.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not thing real. It's not skull or
Speaker 1: houty or whatever. It's just a wolf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, okay, uh, I guess I'm too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean that's why I'm not a tattoo artist a
Speaker 2: canvas instead, because I would have just said, like, but
Speaker 2: if you don't know anything.
Speaker 1: About it, no, just go learn, come back believe me.
Speaker 5: Patience Man tattoo art taught me so much patience with people.
Speaker 2: Being a canvas taught me patience. I mean, my my wolf,
Speaker 2: like it's the like the masterpiece so far eight hours.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, I was hurting at the end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, eight our sessions. It's not fun, but it's it's
Speaker 1: kind of the norm for me.
Speaker 2: Man, it's it's so bad, like but then the I
Speaker 2: mean I do love that. That wasn't actually the like
Speaker 2: an idea of the artist to put like the like
Speaker 2: the pink reddish around it so it would like really
Speaker 2: really pop. Yeah, but that was like the last oh god,
Speaker 2: like the last ten minutes or so ten to fifteen minutes,
Speaker 2: and that's always the worst day on and then like
Speaker 2: you know, like very close to you know, like very
Speaker 2: close on my wrist, very close to the crook of
Speaker 2: my elbow, which are such sensitive places. And then you're
Speaker 2: like already there for eight hours, like pretty much open
Speaker 2: to close. You know, you're literally as a canvas. You're
Speaker 2: the first one in then the last one out. It's like, man,
Speaker 2: and you're you're doing room churuses as well.
Speaker 3: So what is it that?
Speaker 1: Yes, about once a year I do.
Speaker 5: It's a well, it's it's on your own time. But
Speaker 5: it's normal about two maybe three month long. For course,
Speaker 5: it's all email based. So basically, I give you a module,
Speaker 5: I give you homework.
Speaker 1: I market it's Rune magic and bind rooms.
Speaker 2: So well then like what do you what do you
Speaker 2: teach I mean bind rooms? Like, yeah, we kind of
Speaker 2: we kind of got that. Just make sure it is
Speaker 2: what it actually says, not you know, like two spring companies.
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, first of all, I go through well, not all,
Speaker 5: but the majority of Nordic gods and spirits and land rights.
Speaker 1: And stuff like that, and.
Speaker 5: I need people to get like a feeling for the
Speaker 5: whole cosmology, to understand the realms and everything. Then I
Speaker 5: go through all the well all the historical NORDI Runich
Speaker 5: sets there's about six of them. And then and then yeah,
Speaker 5: then I teach them that like the different styles of
Speaker 5: bind rooms and stuff like that, and tell them which
Speaker 5: runs not really to use together, or I give them
Speaker 5: a few examples, a few homework things to do. That's like,
Speaker 5: and then I'll criticize the room on Yeah, but you
Speaker 5: can't bind those and those, so now it's not for
Speaker 5: your magical intent anymore. There's like a different meaning to
Speaker 5: it now and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: There really are certain rooms that just don't kind.
Speaker 5: Of contradict each other, I suppose. Yeah, yeah, you can
Speaker 5: definitely get something like that.
Speaker 2: I think give an example, like I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1: Of something, I can't really think of anything.
Speaker 5: Now, say, for instance, you're talking about like grounding, and
Speaker 5: you'll use the Uru's room because it's it's a grounded room.
Speaker 5: It's a room for like the animals of the land
Speaker 5: and whatever. And you're using la goose, which is well
Speaker 5: directly translated lake or water, but it's the flow of
Speaker 5: emotions and.
Speaker 1: Stuff like that.
Speaker 5: You're like com whining those two. You're getting like a
Speaker 5: spike in your emotions. It's gonna be like something to
Speaker 5: create fury or whatever and not really to ground you.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, okay like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's experience subtle. I mean, it's not like
Speaker 1: it's like ying and yang or anything like that. So
Speaker 1: you've just got to read like the subtle energies in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, that makes oh like that, Yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Like you you would go just like opposites effects like
Speaker 2: opposite effects together. It's not gonna like would you say,
Speaker 2: it's gonna like cancel each other out.
Speaker 1: Or just like cause kind of creates something totally neat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I mean you're magically intinct that you right beforehand.
Speaker 1: That's gonna be very direct. You can't like be vague
Speaker 1: in what you want for the the end result of
Speaker 1: the room or anything.
Speaker 2: So like you you have to like really like really
Speaker 2: believe it. It's not like you have like presented as
Speaker 2: a statement or is it just like kind of you know,
Speaker 2: I would like to but or is it like really
Speaker 2: the like by the end of this I am going
Speaker 2: to I will.
Speaker 5: Even at a time, because if you say by the
Speaker 5: end of this, it's always gonna be by the end
Speaker 5: of that.
Speaker 1: For instance, let's take a money. Don't say by the end.
Speaker 5: Of this year, I'm going to be a millionaire, because
Speaker 5: next year, by the end of that year, you're going
Speaker 5: to be a millionaire.
Speaker 1: And that's just gonna go on and on and on
Speaker 1: for the next year. You're going to become a millionaire. There,
Speaker 1: make it I am a millionaire.
Speaker 2: Oh right, yeah, so present time because then it's like
Speaker 2: everything prison time. Yeah, like you already are that.
Speaker 1: It's just you don't want anything. You don't want it
Speaker 1: in a certain time. It's now.
Speaker 2: Oh right, that's yeah, so manifesting through the rooms. But
Speaker 2: then like yeah, it's like it's you know, it is already,
Speaker 2: so it's just everything else still has to catch up
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: You're the ones licking behind like I am already.
Speaker 1: It's just exactly yeah yeah, uh yeah no I like that.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 2: Like too many times it's just this this like where
Speaker 2: she was she like, oh you know, I would like
Speaker 2: you know, it's kind of like dear diary. Okay, so
Speaker 2: like what kind of people like is it all just
Speaker 2: like Norris Pagans or like who do your course? Or
Speaker 2: people just kind of interested. And it's because like room
Speaker 2: magic is it's quite serious. You know, like not everyone
Speaker 2: can can handle it. I mean it cost odin, I
Speaker 2: mean pretty much everything to like first of all discover it.
Speaker 2: Let alone actually handle it like I I you know,
Speaker 2: not just any housewife can you know, kind of learn
Speaker 2: the magic of the rooms. It's like you know, on board,
Speaker 2: husband's always at work, they'll learn the rooms.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's very powerful for since you're working with.
Speaker 5: Everyone that so far did the course, and I've been
Speaker 5: doing it for like this is the third year now.
Speaker 1: They were all norse pagans.
Speaker 5: Some of them only started, so I actually had to
Speaker 5: like do like a module zero to like catch them
Speaker 5: up sometimes.
Speaker 2: Wow, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a.
Speaker 5: I suppose not everyone. I mean I had people fall
Speaker 5: out of the course. Not that I said, hey, this
Speaker 5: isn't for you, this isn't gonna work. They just literally
Speaker 5: stopped in like halfway through, and like, you know what,
Speaker 5: I don't want to do this anymore because it is serious.
Speaker 1: The course isn't. Yeah, it isn't a joke. It's not
Speaker 1: like a little let's learn the old through fard meanings
Speaker 1: or what either. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, but even beginners like but if you're just I
Speaker 2: mean thinking of you know, like how I started. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was all like interesting and fascinating and whatever. But
Speaker 2: back you know when I when I got on the path,
Speaker 2: if I was to learn ruin magic, that would not
Speaker 2: that would not go well. I just I don't think
Speaker 2: I would have like truly understood it.
Speaker 5: I've got to say a lot of them that just
Speaker 5: start out, they go through the course and some make it,
Speaker 5: but yeah, I don't think they get out of it
Speaker 5: the same as what someone will get out of it
Speaker 5: that's at.
Speaker 1: Least like ten years into the whole paganism.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like the you tell them like hey, you know,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand that you're like you're
Speaker 2: you know, I'm loving it that you know that you're
Speaker 2: loving it, like you know, hey, welcome, welcome back. But
Speaker 2: this is you know, it's kind of like I'm on
Speaker 2: the path. You're like at the first step, but like
Speaker 2: I want to do the rooms. It's like okay, but
Speaker 2: that's like step like a hundred, like you know, starting
Speaker 2: off slow, just like hey, you know you want to
Speaker 2: do it, here you go, here's the chorus. Go ahead.
Speaker 1: No, no, definitely.
Speaker 5: I still give them all the info, all the attachments,
Speaker 5: all the reference and everything. But at the end of
Speaker 5: the course, I do give them certification and whatever, and
Speaker 5: they're not going to give city. They're not going to
Speaker 5: get like yeah, I'm going to give them the tools,
Speaker 5: but they don't make it.
Speaker 1: They don't make it. I mean, that's ultimately up to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's fair enough, I guess. I mean, I
Speaker 2: understand wanting to learn the magic of the rooms, but
Speaker 2: like if you just discovered, you know, you're like the
Speaker 2: path again, it's like slow down, really, And I think a.
Speaker 5: Lot of people that just started and they're doing the course,
Speaker 5: which doesn't happen that often, but I mean there was
Speaker 5: a few cases like that. I think in five years
Speaker 5: or ten years or whatever, when they go back to
Speaker 5: the course, because I mean they've got all the info
Speaker 5: and everything already, I think they're gonna get ah that's
Speaker 5: what he made.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: So is there a.
Speaker 2: Like a certain place for you know, rooms and room
Speaker 2: magic that you recommend people start at. Is it like
Speaker 2: basically first learn like the names.
Speaker 1: Or yeah, well, I mean most people start with the
Speaker 1: elder Foo forark, get like a room set online with
Speaker 1: like a little booklet that gives you like one word
Speaker 1: meaning of the room or whatever. By all means, do that.
Speaker 1: Get that down.
Speaker 5: You can always build on it from there. I'll say
Speaker 5: for a beginner to learn, basically, the best is take
Speaker 5: a run set. I actually have dice, like three eight
Speaker 5: sided dice which I cast or I pick one of
Speaker 5: them and I just caused it. But take your run set.
Speaker 5: Pick out a ruin every morning and meditate on that route.
Speaker 5: I meditate every morning, but not long like say twenty minutes,
Speaker 5: half an hour or something like that, but meditate on
Speaker 5: that route.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you maybe know one or two meanings of the
Speaker 1: room or whatever, but really meditate on it and listen
Speaker 1: to what the rune or the ruine spirit or whatever
Speaker 1: what it tells you.
Speaker 5: Forget about what you read and really listen to it.
Speaker 5: Write it down, make a little journal, write it down.
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole exercise will take you like half
Speaker 1: an hour in the morning, and just go through all
Speaker 1: the ruins like that.
Speaker 5: Well, it can be in chronological order, it doesn't have to.
Speaker 5: You can just pick them randomly whatever.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 1: Then stop after say the twenty four or whatever. If
Speaker 1: you do the Elder for four.
Speaker 5: Stop with it, and about three four months afterwards, do
Speaker 5: it again. Write it down again, and see what did
Speaker 5: you learn?
Speaker 1: What's different about the ruins?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: Just remember the ruins their entities. They're living well beings,
Speaker 1: if you want to put it that way. They do grow.
Speaker 5: It's not like it's a static or form or whatever.
Speaker 5: It's not like it's our normal alphabet that just stays
Speaker 5: like that. Magical practice, spiritual practice.
Speaker 1: It's supposed to grow.
Speaker 5: We are not historical reenactors or whatever. We take what's
Speaker 5: written in the past and we build on that. It's
Speaker 5: not supposed to stay static. Right, and the same room
Speaker 5: to me can mean slightly different than it does to you.
Speaker 5: And that doesn't make my opinion right at yours.
Speaker 2: Wrong because it's a personal that's the thing.
Speaker 5: You've got to have a personal relationship with them. Yeah,
Speaker 5: maybe that room didn't show me, decided it showed you.
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm pretty sure person A is going to
Speaker 5: have a slightly different opinion about me than person B.
Speaker 1: I think, sure, yeah, and you should.
Speaker 5: I think you should view the rooms kind of like
Speaker 5: it's not a date, static symbol that just means one thing.
Speaker 2: I think that's a very common trap for for beginners.
Speaker 1: Like I have this.
Speaker 2: Just this basic picture that I use when I'm doing
Speaker 2: the the Patreon book club where I am reading Light
Speaker 2: Side of the Runes, and it's all like, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: it's the basic meanings. But I just I really use
Speaker 2: it too well, mainly to like show show my subscribers
Speaker 2: like what room I am on now, because I would
Speaker 2: love to show them like the pages in the book,
Speaker 2: but are like this freaking small, and I have to
Speaker 2: be like but they're all like, it's all the static
Speaker 2: basic meanings, like you know, this room is that, and
Speaker 2: this room is that, and this room is that? Well
Speaker 2: then thankfully you know, in the book it goes a
Speaker 2: lot more in depth. It's like, yeah, this room is that,
Speaker 2: which means this coming from this, and you know the
Speaker 2: layer beneath it is there's representing that. So yeah, but
Speaker 2: living living entities, even you say so, are.
Speaker 5: Like that, because I mean most Northern pagan or most
Speaker 5: Pagans in general, have a very animistic worldview, and they
Speaker 5: do see the spirit in the tree, the spirit in
Speaker 5: the rock. It's not just it's not just the tree.
Speaker 5: So I suppose you can view the rooms like that.
Speaker 5: But yeah, that whole static thing. I get that all
Speaker 5: the time because I post a lot of my bind
Speaker 5: roams on Instagram and stuff like that, and I get
Speaker 5: comments like, no, but that's not what it means. It
Speaker 5: means this and this and this, and it's like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 5: but let's take that meaning a little bit further and yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like that, that's yes, that's what it means
Speaker 2: on the surface, Like that's what those two rooms together
Speaker 2: literally mean. Yes, they're rooms. So yeah, I never thought
Speaker 2: of them as as living beings. Actually, that's that's something
Speaker 2: I that's something I'm gonna have to to meditate on.
Speaker 2: I never pictured them like it's like that.
Speaker 1: It's like all sigils really, it's it's what what what
Speaker 1: you're you put into it, It's the will you put
Speaker 1: into it, it's your intent, So it is moving forward.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's not just the line on a piece
Speaker 1: of paper.
Speaker 2: No, I know that, of course, I know that and
Speaker 2: understand that. The magic of the of the rooms in
Speaker 2: you know, Germanic Norris, whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 2: is yeah, very very powerful magic. I want to say,
Speaker 2: like very powerful masculine magic. Or am I saying like
Speaker 2: I think it can be feminine as well.
Speaker 5: It could be there that there's some Ruins that has
Speaker 5: a strong feminine energy, but Connor for instance, in a way,
Speaker 5: but in general, yeah, I think it is more.
Speaker 1: Of a muscular thing.
Speaker 5: Golder was traditionally seen as the muscular form of Nordic magic,
Speaker 5: where cider was more feminine.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that'sfinitely definitely.
Speaker 2: Does I maybe this you know is in the book,
Speaker 2: but does sider have like their own or does it
Speaker 2: have its own room set because Golder is like, as
Speaker 2: you said, is really you know with the ruins.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Golder is like the vocal image or the vocal
Speaker 1: part of the runs.
Speaker 5: It's like actually vibrating the rune, saying the rune out loud.
Speaker 5: There's some poetry like goldra lag and stuff like that,
Speaker 5: which is yeah, putting out the word. I mean in
Speaker 5: the beginning there was the word, but no cider is
Speaker 5: more like it's like a trance thing. It's like they're
Speaker 5: the nation through trance and kind of like ritual dance.
Speaker 5: Sometimes it's actually very much like well in a way,
Speaker 5: it's very much like like kee gong.
Speaker 1: It's like an energy transfer thing.
Speaker 5: The way I see it, the muscular way of magic
Speaker 5: is projecting something outwards where the feminine is taking the
Speaker 5: energy inward.
Speaker 1: So it's more like being possessed. I suppose it's like
Speaker 1: taking the entity in you where the muscular will be
Speaker 1: putting your will out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I mean that's yeah, that's the thought that
Speaker 2: that I got to when you were when you were
Speaker 2: telling it, it's like, yeah, that that is like for
Speaker 2: the masculine thing, Like it's very very outwards, you know,
Speaker 2: Like I mean, it's it's literally what we do. Like
Speaker 2: when you're you know, you're trying to be intimidating or
Speaker 2: you know, when when you're pressed one, it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: you go outward, it's like hey, and well then the
Speaker 2: feminine thing is indeed, like it's it's soft, it's introspective,
Speaker 2: it's you know, not just you know, thinking it once,
Speaker 2: but thinking it twice three times, like really integrating, integrating it.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, yeah, I kind of understand that. And then
Speaker 2: ruins wouldn't that wouldn't pretty fit with.
Speaker 5: I suppose if you meditate on it or whatever, you
Speaker 5: can kind of see it in that way.
Speaker 2: But yeah, not really, yeah, because like ruins are expressions,
Speaker 2: and by you know, it's expressing.
Speaker 1: You know, there we go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay does for all the ladies watching,
Speaker 2: which is I believe like two percent of my audience,
Speaker 2: it's a real sausagetist mm hmm h doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: you can't practice it, no, not at all, not at all,
Speaker 2: Like I mean, yeah, as you said, like you know,
Speaker 2: back go on the Birch.
Speaker 1: I I just.
Speaker 2: Just read about that in the book. And and even
Speaker 2: when I like hadn't read the or what Thomas Carlson,
Speaker 2: at least the meaning that he has given it to
Speaker 2: it already feels feminine in a way, like just looking
Speaker 2: at it, it's like, yeah, that's that's feminine. I don't
Speaker 2: know why exactly what it's feminine. And then in the
Speaker 2: book it says because it's of course, you know, the
Speaker 2: the top down view, and it's like, yeah, yes, the
Speaker 2: greatest view there is of all you girls.
Speaker 1: Like it's like.
Speaker 2: I don't have those fortunate but also and I I like,
Speaker 2: I think I like that one more the representation of
Speaker 2: a pregnant woman, like you have the bust and then
Speaker 2: the belly, and it's like, yeah, that is incredibly feminine,
Speaker 2: incredibly beautiful. Back now the birch tree also to my
Speaker 2: knowledge at least, that's more Eastern, but connected to Baba Yaga,
Speaker 2: very powerful witch in her own rights, you know, or
Speaker 2: like also very much for you know, for the ladies. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the rooms it's it's interesting, it's it's beautiful, but a
Speaker 2: lot of focus is on the on the Norse room.
Speaker 2: It's like you have other room sets. Yeah, there's like
Speaker 2: the Anglo Saxon ruins, I believe the Frisians.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, Anglo Saxon and Anglo Frisian is kind of
Speaker 5: like the same set. I actually used that sick quite
Speaker 5: a bit on Afrikaans, which is kind of like, well
Speaker 5: they call it kitchen Dutch, so yeah, so so for
Speaker 5: Afrikaans and Dutch, I suppose the freezing stuff makes a
Speaker 5: lot of sense because it's kind of like the same
Speaker 5: sounds that we still like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I haven't gotten into the in the Anglo
Speaker 2: Friesian just yet, but I do want to.
Speaker 1: It's quite a nice set.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I'll say probably the most that I use
Speaker 5: these days is younger for farc because it's Viking and
Speaker 5: everyone wants a Viking behind rune and medieval ones because
Speaker 5: it's the easiest for modern languages.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I suppose that's true. Like you know, they
Speaker 2: I've heard many times that like the the old Middle
Speaker 2: English and if you take like more modern Frisian, like
Speaker 2: they can understand each other with you know, with some
Speaker 2: like some struggle some words. Maybe maybe different, but it's
Speaker 2: like the same. I'm you know, good friends with another
Speaker 2: with a shaman also from from South Africa. When he
Speaker 2: you know, speaks Afrikaans to me and I speak Dutch
Speaker 2: to him back, it's like we can understand each other,
Speaker 2: but like yeah, it's it's Afrikaans and it's.
Speaker 1: Just very veryful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know, exactly and he you know, he'll
Speaker 2: ask me like this word like it's it's that in Dutch.
Speaker 2: Two writing's like, yes, it is, okay, got that.
Speaker 5: Right, Sorry, just on a totally different thing. It's getting
Speaker 5: quite lark here. Should I turn on a light here
Speaker 5: or something? Or is it still okay?
Speaker 2: Adds to the ambiance?
Speaker 1: Okay there, I mean if.
Speaker 2: You want to, if you want to turn on the light,
Speaker 2: you no, turn on the light.
Speaker 1: But I think you know, uh, it's kind of like
Speaker 1: late autumn almost winter here, so it gets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're on the half of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: it's actually it's it's like starting to like be actual
Speaker 2: summer here, freaking finally after I don't know, like I mean,
Speaker 2: every winter in the Netherland seems like a fimble winter
Speaker 2: just and then summer is just like, you know, gone
Speaker 2: and that's it. Yeah, It's like you have three weeks
Speaker 2: when it's scorching hot and then it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: back to winter you go. But yeah, oh no, I
Speaker 2: keep keep forgetting that, like yeah, we're on the same
Speaker 2: time zone, you're still you know son, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah yeah. Is there a favorites bind room, Like do
Speaker 2: you have a favorite bind.
Speaker 5: Well, I've got a personal binderying that like kind of
Speaker 5: represents my signature, like my magical signature.
Speaker 1: I suppose. I suppose that's my favorite. It's it's kind
Speaker 1: of an awar room.
Speaker 5: With like a gabble room in the middle. So it's
Speaker 5: like the gift of hanging on the tree something like that,
Speaker 5: I suppose. But that's just that that's a bind room
Speaker 5: I created. I mean, there's there's not a lot of
Speaker 5: historical bind rooms there.
Speaker 1: There are some, but yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 5: Not really a historical thing really. I like, I like
Speaker 5: simple bind rooms really like a lot of the time
Speaker 5: when I don't really have the time to do a
Speaker 5: bind room, I just take a roun.
Speaker 1: Make like three of them in a circle.
Speaker 5: So for instance, like like like make a little triangle
Speaker 5: thing with like a fair hoo, fair hoo, fair who
Speaker 5: and that's my money roun.
Speaker 1: Write that in on a piece of paper, put it
Speaker 1: in your wallet something like that.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, oh that's funny. It's like kind of like
Speaker 2: like I saw that with like a lot of a
Speaker 2: lot of ruins already like that. If you like combine
Speaker 2: to you know, they they're basically another room. The best
Speaker 2: example that I found is like with Lagos, and it
Speaker 2: was like if you take Lagos, you know, copy it,
Speaker 2: mirror its, join it.
Speaker 1: There's a was and that is kind of what it
Speaker 1: was is. It's what's above is below. It's the same emotions,
Speaker 1: the same flow. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like take Lagos, copy it, try of like kind
Speaker 2: of you know, turn it upside down like you have
Speaker 2: you have a was or I was even the Yeah no,
Speaker 2: it's yeah, that that is the the as above so
Speaker 2: below of course.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So but bind rooms aren't historically accurate, like that's more
Speaker 2: of a modern.
Speaker 1: Practice kind of. There's there's a few cases of runes
Speaker 1: that they think was bind runs.
Speaker 5: A lot of times it's in signatures of the people
Speaker 5: that made the artifact, like this artifact was made by
Speaker 5: Andre and then they'll like only do like two or
Speaker 5: three runs and not five.
Speaker 1: Or something like that. There was like Runick Bands, like
Speaker 1: a sequence of runes that was definitely for magical purposes.
Speaker 1: But yeah, bundrons is kind of like a modern thing.
Speaker 1: But once again that's like growing on what was history,
Speaker 1: taking the old and going with it and not just
Speaker 1: re enacting it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so like buying rooms are just another evolution.
Speaker 1: Of that's it.
Speaker 5: I mean, there was a few of them, but it
Speaker 5: wasn't as popular as it is today, not by far.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, Like, oh, I'm actually kind of starting
Speaker 2: to understand it now because like so many, like so
Speaker 2: many people, so many Pagans, I mean, like the real
Speaker 2: hardcore ones are like, you know, no, buying rooms weren't
Speaker 2: the thing, so we shouldn't use them now either. I
Speaker 2: was like, I mean I kind of get it, Like
Speaker 2: if you want to be historically historically accurate, sure, but
Speaker 2: I mean it's also what I you know, what I
Speaker 2: do with the tribe, of course. It's like, yeah, like
Speaker 2: we all want to be Pagans. We all want to
Speaker 2: want to you know, honor our ancestors and live as
Speaker 2: close as we can to the way that our ancestors did.
Speaker 2: But it's the twenty first century, you know, it's not
Speaker 2: the eleventh, tenth century anymore. There are a lot of
Speaker 2: things that we simply cannot do anymore. So what can
Speaker 2: we do?
Speaker 1: How?
Speaker 2: How has it evolved? How can we evolve it?
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 2: So it fits within the twenty first century, which is
Speaker 2: a bitch to find out, really, Like it's a it's
Speaker 2: a question I don't think we'll ever really be answered
Speaker 2: or like have a definitive answer.
Speaker 1: No, no, it can't really be an onnswer I suppose.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun to ponder on at least. So what
Speaker 2: do you see as the like if bind runs are
Speaker 2: like the the current evolution, okay, well, where do you
Speaker 2: see it going? Like what is what would be the next,
Speaker 2: the next thing, the next.
Speaker 5: Well okay, I can't really speak for like the general
Speaker 5: trend or whatever. I have seriously no idea, but personally
Speaker 5: I am busy kind of adding them to like secretary
Speaker 5: hometry and making energy grids with the rooms and stuff
Speaker 5: like that.
Speaker 1: This is actually for my next book.
Speaker 5: But preview, I'm making these huge grids, really say, putting
Speaker 5: like a geometry symbol thing in the middle as big
Speaker 5: as a room or bigger than a room. I mean,
Speaker 5: it did one right around my whole homestead, but like
Speaker 5: the main ones is like free by three meters or something,
Speaker 5: and you sit.
Speaker 1: Inside of the.
Speaker 5: The lines that you created, and like every time where
Speaker 5: a line cross kind of like lay lines, you put
Speaker 5: the right room there and you sit in the middle
Speaker 5: of it and meditate.
Speaker 1: And just work on that energy. And so far I've
Speaker 1: got to say, I've found like nice, well that works.
Speaker 1: It works.
Speaker 5: So it looks more like, well, if you would droids
Speaker 5: really small, it kind of looks more like a like
Speaker 5: Gohtic seal or something like kind of like a bentogram
Speaker 5: in the middle of a circle, and like at each
Speaker 5: point there's like a different room or the same room,
Speaker 5: and that concentrates the energy of those rooms to the
Speaker 5: middle of it.
Speaker 2: So it comes to my mind, is the the alchemist symbol?
Speaker 1: It is? It is.
Speaker 5: It is like transformation circles of alchemy very much because
Speaker 5: you you know, take the outside elements and transmute them
Speaker 5: into one thing. So yeah, that's personally where where my
Speaker 5: room magic is going. I don't really know if that
Speaker 5: will catch on.
Speaker 1: We'll see.
Speaker 2: I mean, it should catch on though, it makes it no,
Speaker 2: but it makes it makes a lot of a lot
Speaker 2: of sense, Like in a way like you could say
Speaker 2: that the rooms as symbols are you know, sacred geometry.
Speaker 2: It is very similar, really simplified.
Speaker 5: I guess, yeah, it's very very It's very similar actually,
Speaker 5: and that's kind of what I believe in most symbols
Speaker 5: and well some some of my artwork as well. Always
Speaker 5: simplify it, simplify it, break it down into like the
Speaker 5: most compact thing you can have. I mean that's what
Speaker 5: they would have done a thousand years ago. I mean
Speaker 5: they carved it into stone and wood or whatever. They
Speaker 5: didn't want five hundred lines.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like if you're carving it, like especially if you're
Speaker 2: carving it into stone, like it does to be simple
Speaker 2: and quite literally straightforwards. Yeah, I mean you can if
Speaker 2: you're really patient with some really sharp tools, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you can make some pretty stuff. But it's a hell
Speaker 2: of a job. M I mean it would it's a
Speaker 2: little easier, but yeah, oh that's hm hmm. I'll be
Speaker 2: following that. I'm I'm very curious as where you're Yeah, definitely, Oh,
Speaker 2: definitely publish more of that at the moment.
Speaker 5: I think there's like one or two on my social
Speaker 5: media stuff and whatever. But yeah, I'm definitely working on.
Speaker 2: Oh that is awesome. I would have never thought of that,
Speaker 2: but it makes so much sense actually.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And the weird thing is, like when I started, it
Speaker 5: felt like I'm combining these kind.
Speaker 1: Of like opposite cultures.
Speaker 5: But like you just said, it is kind of sacred geometry,
Speaker 5: and if you work with the energy transmuting it. It
Speaker 5: is kind of alchemed it's I think it's a logical
Speaker 5: step forward.
Speaker 1: It is, yeah, it is.
Speaker 2: And sacred geometry. We I mean we're using that in
Speaker 2: Europe as well. I just you know, look at the
Speaker 2: medieval castles. You know, there is most definitely something to them.
Speaker 2: Like I don't like that everyone. That's more of a
Speaker 2: personal pat peeve for me. But like everyone who is
Speaker 2: you know, or considers themselves spiritual, they always go east. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it's like, but we we have like really strong
Speaker 2: European magic as well, like stay close to home, you know,
Speaker 2: but no, you know, it's always the East because oh
Speaker 2: you know, it's so beautiful in love and light, and
Speaker 2: it's like, no, I get it, Yes, it's beautiful. Just
Speaker 2: stay home for once.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's actually very weird. Weird.
Speaker 5: I talked to someone brought close to me the other
Speaker 5: day and they're all into their Eastern philosophy and everything.
Speaker 1: And basically they're thinking exactly what I'm thinking. They've got
Speaker 1: exactly the same rules or ideas or whatever.
Speaker 5: It's like, dude, you could have just stayed home, really,
Speaker 5: you could have gotten exactly that same info. Yeah, just
Speaker 5: listening to your ancestors and you didn't.
Speaker 1: Have to go that far. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, I mean if it, if it calls to you,
Speaker 2: you know, more power, all the more power to you.
Speaker 2: That's that's that's fine.
Speaker 1: But like it.
Speaker 2: And I get it, you know, like you see the
Speaker 2: tapestries with like all you know, all the colors and
Speaker 2: the mandolas, and yeah, it's it's incredibly beautiful. And then
Speaker 2: I mean Celtic not work. It's it's kind of a
Speaker 2: mandala as well, is yes, and the knowledge is incredibly similar.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know there is in history of course,
Speaker 2: there was a point where you know, some group went
Speaker 2: east and the other went west, and so yeah, but
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's so funny. That's funny actually, like
Speaker 2: it's it's the same, the same knowledge they chose.
Speaker 5: To and that kind of touches on the whole closed
Speaker 5: system thing that we talked about earlier as well. I
Speaker 5: think the path that I took was just so much
Speaker 5: easier than the path that that person took because mine
Speaker 5: was right here, it was part of me already.
Speaker 1: He had to look for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly like it it found I mean,
Speaker 2: it found you. It was already there, you just had.
Speaker 1: To Yeah, got the same end result and everything. So
Speaker 1: he's not wrong. He's not wrong for taking something out
Speaker 1: of his culture. But I think it could have been easier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, easier, quicker, lot less, lot less stress, a
Speaker 2: lot less having to having to learn difficult languages and
Speaker 2: you know, words that you you don't understands like sounds, grit, it's,
Speaker 2: for example, what everybody's so it's really cool, but I
Speaker 2: don't understand those scribbles.
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't really have to learn any language.
Speaker 1: It's just trying to learn all the versions of the
Speaker 1: languages that I already know. But yeah, yeah, learned totally different,
Speaker 1: totally new languages.
Speaker 2: Just to eventually come to the same conclusions and gather
Speaker 2: the same knowledge and wisdom as you did with half
Speaker 2: the effort exactly. Yeah, that's speaking of irony.
Speaker 1: That's that's pretty different people.
Speaker 2: Eh yeah, yeah, yeah, different strokes for different people. I
Speaker 2: guess that's funny. But yeah, like hmmm, I like that
Speaker 2: sacred geometry with the wounds, like it's it is a logical.
Speaker 5: That that's kind of and I mean if you look
Speaker 5: at like the sixteenth century Golder stuff here and stuff
Speaker 5: like that, like the Battle Visiou, which everyone thinks is Viking,
Speaker 5: but never mind, we're not going there.
Speaker 1: Oh that was already yeah, that was already alchemy kind of,
Speaker 1: so they were kind of already going that direction.
Speaker 2: I mean the fact you see her like it is
Speaker 2: it is a schedule, really yeah.
Speaker 1: And it is Icelandic. It's just not the right period.
Speaker 1: But I mean the whole thing that people so so
Speaker 1: stressed out about Viking the like, that's like a three
Speaker 1: hundred year period in history. Man, Really that's three hundred years.
Speaker 2: A lot of changes in three hundred years, a lot
Speaker 2: of three years.
Speaker 1: So that's why I try I not to call my
Speaker 1: work Viking artwork, although for commercial purposes I have to
Speaker 1: hashtag Viking artwork, but artwork, yeah, like.
Speaker 2: For for the for the like, for the se O,
Speaker 2: for the search engine optimization and marketing.
Speaker 5: Unfortunately, Yeah, it's it's just Nordic. It's not just Icelandic.
Speaker 5: It's not just Norway or Sweden or whatever. I would
Speaker 5: actually go as far as say it's kind of Northern
Speaker 5: slash Western European artwork, because there's.
Speaker 1: Some Celtic knots in some of my stuff as well.
Speaker 1: Some of my clients specifically ask for Celtic work just
Speaker 1: the other day I did something based on the Morrigan
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So oh yeah, that was quite nice.
Speaker 1: It was a four arm pies.
Speaker 2: Oh nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My my my wife, she loves the the darker goddesses.
Speaker 2: And the Oregon is a it's a powerful one, a
Speaker 2: beautiful one and a powerful one. And also you know,
Speaker 2: of course crows and ravens again, very very much a
Speaker 2: theme here in northern you're northwestern western Europe. I mean,
Speaker 2: like when it comes to that, the Netherlands is in
Speaker 2: just the perfect spot for it. Like if you take
Speaker 2: northwestern Europe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now it's it's perfect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like it's really easy to take from scannin Aviah.
Speaker 2: It's really easy to take from the British Isles, Germany,
Speaker 2: some some goal perhaps you know, like France. Yeah that's
Speaker 2: really that's really cool.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean if you take it back far enough,
Speaker 5: northern Germany, Frisia, Danish stuff and whatever.
Speaker 1: It was all kind of the same. It was all
Speaker 1: the same kind of tribes really, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean the you know you're in the Netherlands, it
Speaker 2: was the whole like now it's just one province, but
Speaker 2: it was the whole western coast, Like I believe going
Speaker 2: into like a part of Germany that was Frisia and
Speaker 2: Germania was like the rest of the Netherlands and a
Speaker 2: huge part of what is now Germany. So it's still
Speaker 2: you know, the same names, the same people. A lot
Speaker 2: of people, especially the native English speakers, get Dutch and German.
Speaker 2: They get confused because.
Speaker 6: You know, Dutch and Deutsch and it's like different. It
Speaker 6: maybe sounds like each other, but it's really.
Speaker 5: Not recalls as well, because technically they can both be dates.
Speaker 1: German isn't really, but they call them datesifs as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know, I I I do follow a
Speaker 2: an African content creator on on TikTok, but when she
Speaker 2: goes off in Afrikaans, I'm lost. It's like like as
Speaker 2: as you said, like if it's like kind of you know,
Speaker 2: slow like take take like I can, like, yeah, some
Speaker 2: of the words are different, but I know what you're
Speaker 2: getting it. But then she, you know, she goes off
Speaker 2: like no, I'm just like cool, no idea what you
Speaker 2: just said. But hey, good for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I get quite a few tattoo clients from the Netherlands
Speaker 5: and when they talk to me in in Dutch, then
Speaker 5: then it's fine. But when say the girl talks to
Speaker 5: her boyfriend like sitting on the stool next to me, I'm.
Speaker 1: Like totally lost this what's way too far? A really
Speaker 1: slow that's cool, but now.
Speaker 2: Like can you say that again at half speed?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no. Language is it's an interesting, interesting thing,
Speaker 2: and I mean you can take the rooms for language
Speaker 2: like it is used as.
Speaker 1: I mean, the primary goal back then was communication. It
Speaker 1: was a later thing. The magic came later. I won't
Speaker 1: say that much later, but yeah, primary it was a
Speaker 1: communication tool.
Speaker 2: Just you know, if you're getting it, to make sure
Speaker 2: that you're you're using the right ones.
Speaker 5: Older food for arc that they translated directly from English
Speaker 5: that they wanted me to tet to you.
Speaker 1: No please yah, please do your homework.
Speaker 2: Well I mean that that goes for everything.
Speaker 1: Just please don't worry.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're if you're going to take an
Speaker 2: ancient language and like directly translated to a modern language,
Speaker 2: it's so much meaning gets get and you know you'll
Speaker 2: end up like like your friends who thinks like it's
Speaker 2: just a badass Chinese saying but oh man, so where
Speaker 2: can where can the good people find your your course
Speaker 2: on the rooms because it sounds like it's definitely one
Speaker 2: of the one of the better ones.
Speaker 5: On my website ww dot north Reuno dot com, there's
Speaker 5: still like I think there's two.
Speaker 1: Spots open at the moment. I only take fifteen.
Speaker 5: Learners a year, well be course sometimes well not sometimes.
Speaker 5: So far, I've just done it once a year, but
Speaker 5: I'm thinking i might do the course end of this
Speaker 5: year again, Like.
Speaker 2: You wanna you want to do it more often?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, like the last one, Well, like I said, I've
Speaker 5: only have like two spots left, and I started with
Speaker 5: it like officially about a week ago, so it falls
Speaker 5: up pretty quickly. Yeah, so this one fold up pretty quickly.
Speaker 5: The previous ones it did fall up eventually, but it
Speaker 5: wasn't that quick. So there's definitely a demand for it.
Speaker 5: But yeah, it's on the website or otherwise, I'll say,
Speaker 5: in my Instagram.
Speaker 1: Those are properly the two places where I'm the most active.
Speaker 5: I do have a YouTube and I do have a Facebook,
Speaker 5: but I've been adlecting it so much. I think, like
Speaker 5: the last YouTube video I posted was like a year ago.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah yeah, and Facebook is Facebook is such
Speaker 2: a bad platform anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of link my Instagram to it, so
Speaker 1: like once or twice you'll get like an Instagram post
Speaker 1: on my Facebook and that's that's how active I am.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you just link it to your Instagram because
Speaker 2: then you know, at least something's happening on Facebook. Yeah yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I get that with the other project that I'm involved with,
Speaker 2: like we do the exact same.
Speaker 1: Like that's just easier, man, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just way easier. But I mean, good thing
Speaker 2: that you're gonna like do it more often, I think,
Speaker 2: you know, like especially especially now since there is such
Speaker 2: a a pagan revival going on, like more and more
Speaker 2: people are, you know, turning back to their heritage. Also
Speaker 2: because with all that you know, shit going on in
Speaker 2: the world, there is really not much that you can
Speaker 2: you can hold onto.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anymore. I don't want to hold on to something
Speaker 1: that's that's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and then you know your ancestry, like it's
Speaker 2: it's right there, and it's it's you know, it takes
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of time and effort still
Speaker 2: to to really get to understand it, really understand you know,
Speaker 2: where you are from, where you are coming from, what
Speaker 2: you're you know, your whole lineage is but I mean
Speaker 2: better that than you know, worship the next Scientist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, so north Aruna dot.
Speaker 2: Com it is, because yeah, I'll of course make sure
Speaker 2: that it's in the description down below. Yeah, no, of
Speaker 2: course it's you know, it's amazing work that you're that
Speaker 2: you're doing. And you said you were an author as well,
Speaker 2: like you're you're a man of many talents.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wrote a book also on runs. We're busy
Speaker 5: doing the final edit at the moment. I think I
Speaker 5: think it's the eighth of January. It's it's early next
Speaker 5: year that it's apparently going to be published. It's going
Speaker 5: to be published via Crosscrow Books. The you can already
Speaker 5: pre order the book, but yeah, it's not printed.
Speaker 2: Yet, okay, Cross Crows Cross Books. Okay, and that's like
Speaker 2: I can find that on your Instagram.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's on my instagram as well. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've actually got a live link in my bio to
Speaker 1: the pre order page of the book as well.
Speaker 2: Oh cool, okay, Oh good one, I'll check that out
Speaker 2: right away. I mean more books on rooms, hell, yeah,
Speaker 2: let's go.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, like there's there's so much to learn when it
Speaker 2: when it comes to the rooms and.
Speaker 1: What you just said. People want to learn now, they
Speaker 1: really want to learn.
Speaker 5: Ten years ago, I would say I knew what I
Speaker 5: know now, but I still knew a lot about rooms.
Speaker 5: No one wanted to listen to me. I was the
Speaker 5: crazy guy drawing rooms. Now people actually want to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that's you know, it's
Speaker 2: just another another step in the in the pagan revival. Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we kind of like know about about the gods now
Speaker 2: those stories are abundant, Like everyone's always talking about the
Speaker 2: gods and their stories, which are great stories to tell,
Speaker 2: of course, But like the next step is really going
Speaker 2: into the into the magical side of it. And then
Speaker 2: you know, of course, first you get to the rooms, Like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that is I think that's the first step
Speaker 1: in the magical direction of the North. Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And hey, you know, you don't have to hang nine
Speaker 2: days and nine nights on Gracile to to find out,
Speaker 2: you know, that's that's also a thing of the past.
Speaker 2: Now you can just buy his course.
Speaker 1: And yeah, just buy a course. It's a lot easier.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, like, you probably won't be the
Speaker 2: next Odin, but but at the very least you can
Speaker 2: keep both eyes, which comes in really handy, you know,
Speaker 2: especially like for depth perception and everything, like just two eyes.
Speaker 2: There's a reason why you have to watch and Odin is.
Speaker 2: You know, he was a special one of course, Like
Speaker 2: the the end justifies the means you want to lie, Okay,
Speaker 2: here you go. It's like, oh, that's a pretty hardcore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't really this nice god that everyone say
Speaker 1: he was. He was hardcore. Man, he was hardcore. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: oh god him. I mean I love Odin obviously, but
Speaker 1: it was kind of an asshole sometimes. Man. He was harsh.
Speaker 2: Oh dude, he did things that no, like you you
Speaker 2: don't you don't do that, like I mean, at least
Speaker 2: ask permission. I mean, dude, like maybe I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe it's on foreplay.
Speaker 7: Just have it been consensual, like dude, I know different times,
Speaker 7: but gosh, man, well, I mean the result.
Speaker 2: Was there and that's that you saw.
Speaker 1: That that matters and what the story is about.
Speaker 5: He gave everything for well to become the highest version
Speaker 5: of himself, and I think that's what we do as well.
Speaker 5: Give everything, maybe not as harshly, but give everything to
Speaker 5: become the better version of yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean he and by that, like he
Speaker 2: discovered the magic of the rooms and by you know,
Speaker 2: trying to be the best version of ourselves that we can.
Speaker 2: Like it brought you to, you know, to where you
Speaker 2: are now, successful tattoo artist, you know, a book coming out,
Speaker 2: multiple you know, courses on on the rooms, like developing
Speaker 2: the room system. I'm well on my way to become
Speaker 2: a semi successful podcaster like we I mean on YouTube,
Speaker 2: Like I'm at least that time of recording, I'm ninety
Speaker 2: five subscribers off from one k.
Speaker 1: Jeez, man, that's yeah, that's wow.
Speaker 2: That's insane. That's really it's it shot up enormously, Like
Speaker 2: I've told this many times, but it was quite quite fitting.
Speaker 2: Actually it was around uh sour and Halloween time that
Speaker 2: I was at six hundred and sixty six subscribers. Like
Speaker 2: even made a joke of it, like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: Halloween six six and now I'm like, you know, close
Speaker 2: to to a thousand, Like man.
Speaker 5: Kind of just on on that weird think it's sowe
Speaker 5: now in the Southern Hemisphere, it's not Beltane now, it's yeah,
Speaker 5: it's Halloween here, right, yeah, oh.
Speaker 2: North Southern Yeah, no, of course, of course. Oh that's weird.
Speaker 2: Celebrating sour It's very weird.
Speaker 1: I'll say most of us Southern Pagans kind of practice
Speaker 1: the northern stuff. Really. Yeah, most people will celebrate Beltane
Speaker 1: or whatever now. But yeah, technically it is it's Halloween.
Speaker 2: That's oh, that's so weird, like Halloween in April. No,
Speaker 2: the world is a strange place. But yeah, I mean, dude,
Speaker 2: thank you very much for for coming on. I I
Speaker 2: definitely have some some stuff too to ponder on, like
Speaker 2: my I think my takeaways are the Ruins as living entities.
Speaker 2: Never thought about it that way. It's an interesting thoughts
Speaker 2: and the like your next project, like Sacred Geometry and
Speaker 2: and the Ruins. That's that's gonna be big. That's gonna
Speaker 2: be that's gonna be a that's gonna be a good one,
Speaker 2: powerful one too.
Speaker 1: I'll definitely keep you updated on.
Speaker 2: That, yes please, And I am definitely going to to
Speaker 2: pre order your book, like just anything Ruins, you know,
Speaker 2: let's go. Well, thank you really really digging in the
Speaker 2: magical aspect of it. It's beautiful, it's powerful, hard to
Speaker 2: comprehend sometimes. Yeah, a lot of takeaways from this. This
Speaker 2: is really cool.
Speaker 1: Thank you well, Slea sure, man, it's been nice. Thanks yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know.
Speaker 2: For the good people watching, for the good people listening.
Speaker 2: I hope you you learned from this as well. And
Speaker 2: if not, then what have you been doing? You know what,
Speaker 2: what have you been watching? What have you been listening?
Speaker 2: Just you know, watch it again, listen to it again.
Speaker 1: There are there are.
Speaker 2: Definitely gems in there. And hey, if you did learn
Speaker 2: something from it, if you have some major takeaways or
Speaker 2: even questions, leave them in the comments. If I can
Speaker 2: answer them, I'll be happy to answer them. If I
Speaker 2: can't answer them, I'll just be like, oh, they have questions.
Speaker 1: I check the podcast comments all the time.
Speaker 2: Awesome And if you, of course, if you want to
Speaker 2: you know, see more here more learn more to follow
Speaker 2: on the on Instagram, check out his website or dot com.
Speaker 2: I will make sure that they are all in the
Speaker 2: description down below. Of course, if you want to see
Speaker 2: more here more know more about the Greyhorned Pagans, do
Speaker 2: go to our website ww dot Greyhorned Pagans dot com,
Speaker 2: where you can find everything from you know who we
Speaker 2: are as a tribe, what our goal is, what do
Speaker 2: we aim for to like our merge the the other
Speaker 2: people in the tribes that we connect ourselves with and
Speaker 2: much much more. And if you like, if you want
Speaker 2: to all so like dive a little further into the
Speaker 2: magic of the Ruins and feel like supporting the Gray
Speaker 2: on Pagans podcast, do go to Patreon dot com, fro
Speaker 2: slash Grey and Pagans where I try to do it
Speaker 2: like every Wednesday, the Greyarnt Pagan's book Club, I mean
Speaker 2: Ruins Wednesday vote on vodin. Thought I was fitting. I'm
Speaker 2: supposed to do it today, but I still have to
Speaker 2: have to get dinner and everything, so we do it tomorrow,
Speaker 2: I guess. But the Night side of the Ruins a
Speaker 2: little more, you know, a little more, a little more edgy,
Speaker 2: I guess, a little more of a darker edge. But
Speaker 2: that is Patreon dot com, Forge slash Great Orange, Pagans,
Speaker 2: the Patreon book Club, and of course you can also
Speaker 2: get early access to all the episodes of the podcast there.
Speaker 2: So if you don't want to wait and you want
Speaker 2: to you know, Heredy has to say a week early,
Speaker 2: subscribe to patreon dot com first as Great or Pagans
Speaker 2: on the Warrior Aristocrats here and you won't have to wait,
Speaker 2: just you know, a week early because you know you're
Speaker 2: so special. Um yeah, that is all. And also of
Speaker 2: course you know, don't leave a like on video share it.
Speaker 2: Make sure you're subscribed. As I said, ninety five off
Speaker 2: from one k. That's crazy. You never thought i'd like,
Speaker 2: actually get this much. You know, it's a that's a
Speaker 2: passion project which is growing fast. Yeah. Thank you all
Speaker 2: for listening, Thank you all for watching. Until next time.
Speaker 2: Until yeah, until next time, Bye bye everyone.
Speaker 8: This was yet another amazing episode of the Greyhorn Pagans
Speaker 8: podst We thank you all for watching.
Speaker 2: We thank you all for listening.
Speaker 8: Remember to like, share, subscribe, and hit that notification bell
Speaker 8: so you will be notified whenever we upload something new.
Speaker 8: Support us on Patreon for early access and for everything
Speaker 8: else that we do with the tribe. For everything else
Speaker 8: that we do with the podcast, find us on wwwbangains
Speaker 8: dot com.
Speaker 2: For now, we thank you and until next time,