Speaker 1: So there's a variety ranging from you know banks you
Speaker 1: know Socchen for example, that are interested in issuing stable
Speaker 1: coins on the XORP ledger, to asset managers that are
Speaker 1: participating with some of the tokenization platforms. There's been you know,
Speaker 1: Aberdeen has issued certain money market funds through our checks,
Speaker 1: which is a tokenization provider on the XORP Ledger.
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Speaker 3: Link will be in the description. Hey everybody, welcome into
Speaker 3: the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward and
Speaker 3: joining me today is Jasmine Cooper, who's head of product
Speaker 3: at ripple x. Jazz. Great to have you on.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Tony. Excited to chat with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, JAZZI, thank you for taking the time to do this.
Speaker 3: Lots going on with the XRP Ledger, and recently Ripple
Speaker 3: release a report titled Institutional DeFi on the XRP Ledger,
Speaker 3: what's live and What's next. So certainly the meat and
Speaker 3: potatoes of our conversation is going to be around this.
Speaker 3: But I always like to kick it off with you
Speaker 3: folks background and how they got into crypto. So tell
Speaker 3: us a bit about yourself, where you're from and what's
Speaker 3: your professional background.
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, so I'm originally from Connecticut, but I've kind
Speaker 1: of bounced around the US from California, Texas, Colorado, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been working in the fintech space for a long time.
Speaker 1: This started primarily with my first company I started, which
Speaker 1: was consumer financial health application tended to help young professionals
Speaker 1: improve their financial situation. From there, I ended up pausing
Speaker 1: that venture and moving into an opportunity within product in
Speaker 1: the mortgage technology space, where I got a good understanding
Speaker 1: of the back ends of how mortgage mortgage servicers lenders
Speaker 1: operate and really get a sense of some of the
Speaker 1: limitations and boundaries within traditional finance. And so that really
Speaker 1: set me up well to shift over to ripple where
Speaker 1: I started working professionally in the blockchain and crypto space
Speaker 1: and really being firsthand with you know, now institutional DeFi
Speaker 1: and fixing some of those problems that I saw in
Speaker 1: the past.
Speaker 3: Couple roles, No, for sure, And what was your first
Speaker 3: encounter with bigcoin or crypto and what was your aha moment?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that was back in you know, a
Speaker 1: little bit later than some others, but maybe twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, when smart contracts Ethereum smart contracts just started
Speaker 1: to become popular. You know, bitcoin as a token and
Speaker 1: token trading was never really the most interesting aspect of
Speaker 1: crypto to me. To me, it was more so the
Speaker 1: underlying blockchain and smart contracts that could power entire industries
Speaker 1: in a decentralized way. So learning about ethereum smart contracts,
Speaker 1: I think one of the earliest examples people gave was
Speaker 1: around delivering mail and certifying when you know, packages were
Speaker 1: being delivered, and that stood out as especially interesting to
Speaker 1: remove some of the inefficiencies, trust layers, and cost structures
Speaker 1: that exists in a centralized way of doing things.
Speaker 3: Now, you mentioned you worked in the real estate, our
Speaker 3: mortgage industry, right, I did as well as a loan
Speaker 3: processor at a mortgage broker many moons ago. And now
Speaker 3: you have, of course companies trying to tokenize real estate
Speaker 3: but also improve the real estate process, which more contract
Speaker 3: technology and blockchains. What are your thoughts on that? And
Speaker 3: it may cut out a lot of fees, a lot
Speaker 3: of middlemen, and in addition to real estate market and
Speaker 3: mortgage industry, other industries are going to be changed as well.
Speaker 3: But it seems like, you know, real estate is going
Speaker 3: to be a big one because we all need housing,
Speaker 3: we all need shelter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I mean, real estate tokenization
Speaker 1: hasn't been a use case I've personally spent too much
Speaker 1: time on. I do see the opportunity there from a
Speaker 1: crowd funding perspective, you know, it can be tricky in
Speaker 1: terms of managing consumer protection and all of that with
Speaker 1: giving access to various real estate investment opportunities. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think it's interesting from an access standpoint,
Speaker 1: from an efficiency standpoint. But where I really get excited about,
Speaker 1: you know, on chain, you know, real world assets, for example,
Speaker 1: is when it comes to you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: money movement, like with collateral use cases and you know,
Speaker 1: global payments and things like that. I think that's where
Speaker 1: blockchain can can really shine. But you know, real estate
Speaker 1: is also, you know, definitely interesting, and you know, if
Speaker 1: I were to guess it, you know it's going to
Speaker 1: increase in uptake over the next five ten years.
Speaker 3: Oh for sure. Now tell us a bit about ripple
Speaker 3: X for those who may not know. We know of
Speaker 3: ripple the company, but what does ripple X specifically do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good question. So riple X is a distinct business
Speaker 1: unit within ripple that focuses on the XORP Ledger, the
Speaker 1: public layer one blockchain. So we participate with the XRPL
Speaker 1: in a number of different ways. My team, the product team,
Speaker 1: contributes to the core features and capabilities, so we'll design
Speaker 1: alongside the community, implement, propose new feature amendments for the
Speaker 1: XRP ledger. You know, it works a little bit differently
Speaker 1: in that it's not smart contract based, so a lot
Speaker 1: of the new features are at the core blockchain level.
Speaker 1: Some other teams in ripple x focus on developer enablement
Speaker 1: that can be either through programs like accelerators, incubators, grants,
Speaker 1: as well as through technical tooling, so client libraries, explorers,
Speaker 1: and a variety of different tools that can help the
Speaker 1: ecosystem of DAPT developers build and launch their products. So
Speaker 1: that's that's really the focus on Ripple X. Of Ripple X,
Speaker 1: we stand alongside other businesses within Ripple, you know that
Speaker 1: focus on other products such as r l U, S
Speaker 1: d E, custody and payments for example.
Speaker 3: Now, there's been a lot happening on the XRP ledger,
Speaker 3: a lot of exciting news and developments. But referencing the
Speaker 3: recent report I was put out about institutional DeFi and
Speaker 3: the XRP Ledger, tell us about that. What's on the
Speaker 3: roadmap here? What are you guys trying to achieve?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good question. So you know, Ripple and ripple
Speaker 1: X are a single contributor to the XRP Ledger. So
Speaker 1: I don't view view this as the XORP ledgers roadmap,
Speaker 1: but rather, you know, Ripple's contribution and our view of
Speaker 1: how we would like to see uh some of the
Speaker 1: use cases on the x ORP ledger grow and expand
Speaker 1: you know, I think we're not the only ones in
Speaker 1: the industry that are seeing the big uptake this year
Speaker 1: and and and last year by institutions. Uh, and now
Speaker 1: that's accelerated even further by you know, the current regulatory
Speaker 1: environment that's starting to really look deeply at digital assets
Speaker 1: and how they can improve industries. Uh, as well as
Speaker 1: the current administration in the US that's now you know,
Speaker 1: more crypto friendly than than past administrations have been. So
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of tailwinds that we
Speaker 1: see now and we think it's the right time to
Speaker 1: really double down and do what you know, Ripple has
Speaker 1: really been focused on historically, which is providing blockchain based
Speaker 1: building blocks for financial institutions to bring their businesses or
Speaker 1: part of their businesses onto the blockchain and unlock efficiencies, reductions,
Speaker 1: et cetera, you know, but by leveraging the core competencies
Speaker 1: of blockchain. So that's kind of what we're looking at
Speaker 1: at a high level, and you know, happy to to
Speaker 1: dive into specific examples of that as you're interested.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure. How about tokenization because I saw it, yes
Speaker 3: the other day r W A dot x y Z.
Speaker 3: I think that's what they called integrated x XRP ledger
Speaker 3: where we can see the active developments that are happening
Speaker 3: on the XRP ledger for tokenized assets. What is your
Speaker 3: vision there and how you how are you trying to
Speaker 3: track institutions to tokenize on the XRP ledger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's a good a good starting place.
Speaker 1: So tokenization, you know, is kind of the beginning of
Speaker 1: the life cycle for any sort of on chain finance.
Speaker 1: So if you want to do stable coin payments, you
Speaker 1: first need stable coins. If you want to do you know,
Speaker 1: real estate investment diversification, you first need in on chain
Speaker 1: real estate token or something along those lines. So tokenization
Speaker 1: is really the beginning of of everything when it comes
Speaker 1: to r w A and institutional DEFIH and so we're
Speaker 1: really just trying to increase the utility and lower barriers
Speaker 1: to entry for institutions. So one proposal we put out
Speaker 1: recently is called multipurpose tokens. You can think of that
Speaker 1: along the lines of a semi fungible token UH. And
Speaker 1: that's that standard allows for UH developers and token issuers
Speaker 1: to attach metadata directly to the token object on chain,
Speaker 1: versus the traditional or legacy UH fungible token on the
Speaker 1: x ORP ledger, which we call tokens or IOUs you know,
Speaker 1: is more of a relational object. So you know, io,
Speaker 1: you one dollar, you know you you've given me you've
Speaker 1: given me one token. So by allowing a standalone object,
Speaker 1: this is better for you know, say a bond where
Speaker 1: you want to store the terms and the duration, the
Speaker 1: interest rate, all you know on that on chain object.
Speaker 1: So we're really trying to look at these use cases
Speaker 1: and make sure we have the building blocks and the
Speaker 1: standards to best support them and give you know, a
Speaker 1: best in class experience when they bring TraFi onto blockchain web.
Speaker 3: Question on the multi purpose token, just to make sure
Speaker 3: I wrap my head around it, and also for the audience.
Speaker 3: So we know of NFTs non fungible tokens, and then
Speaker 3: you have fungible tokens. So would these tokens be It's
Speaker 3: kind of how should I put it? It's a fifth
Speaker 3: it's a hybrid. You know, it has the ability to
Speaker 3: do certain things but then be dynamic and become fungible.
Speaker 3: How does that work?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you can issue a set of
Speaker 1: them and they're basically interchangeable between one another. You know,
Speaker 1: if you had to compare, they'll in practicality, they'll operate
Speaker 1: more like a fungible token than a non fungible token.
Speaker 1: So I think it's it's you know a little bit
Speaker 1: more close to that. You see some standards along those
Speaker 1: lines in Ethereum, like I think one one five to
Speaker 1: five is a similar instance. But the core of mpts
Speaker 1: is really about the attachment of that metadata as well
Speaker 1: as the scalability of the asset. So you know, another
Speaker 1: thing that we're keeping in mind as we build new
Speaker 1: features and capabilities is the core competencies that exist today
Speaker 1: and not sacrificing any of those. So scalability performance. You know,
Speaker 1: right now transactions are still costing a fraction of a penny,
Speaker 1: you know, three to four second block times. We don't
Speaker 1: want to sacrifice any of that. So mpts are also
Speaker 1: highly highly scalable, which is another benefit from my eyes.
Speaker 3: Interesting, I love it. I mean it's amazing of the
Speaker 3: new iterations or ideas and utility that's you know, coming
Speaker 3: as we move later into these adoption cycle and it's
Speaker 3: pretty cool. Like I wouldn't have thought about multi purpose token,
Speaker 3: so that's really cool. You mentioned etherorem EVM side chain.
Speaker 3: Tell us about this and how it will work with
Speaker 3: the XRP ledger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the EVM side chain is just that, it's
Speaker 1: a side chain, it's a standalone chain. It's not a
Speaker 1: layer two from the x ORP ledger. Accelra will service
Speaker 1: the bridge between x or pl main neet and the
Speaker 1: EVM side chain, so that will allow for the bridging
Speaker 1: over of the native asset, which will be x r
Speaker 1: p uh so wrapped XRP by acceler will service the
Speaker 1: native asset. And you know, it's it's a Cosmo space chain,
Speaker 1: so there's IBC built into it. You know, it also
Speaker 1: has the v moost you module as well to allow
Speaker 1: for EVM smart contract compatibility, which is kind of the
Speaker 1: core use case of it. And yeah, I'm excited about it.
Speaker 1: I think it gives developers familiar environment to experiment, test
Speaker 1: and innovate in a way that XERPL maynite may net
Speaker 1: might not. You know, there's a limited set of programmability
Speaker 1: cusvisibility of some of the primitives on MAInet, and while
Speaker 1: I believe that those are best suited for certain use
Speaker 1: cases like payments, trading, lending, you know, collateral for institutional
Speaker 1: DeFi there's still that long tail of you know, cryptonative
Speaker 1: use cases or you know, the leading edge of innovation
Speaker 1: use cases where XORPL MAInet might not be the best
Speaker 1: best place. So EVM side chain is a good alternative
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 3: Got it? So you mentioned that could be like a
Speaker 3: testing ground or and correct me if I'm wrong here
Speaker 3: in my thought process. Right here, it enables some smart
Speaker 3: contract features. I can use this as a testing ground,
Speaker 3: but I can also build something that can then be
Speaker 3: moved over to the XRP mainlet XRP letter mainlet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, so fully interoperable. From an asset standpoint, if
Speaker 1: you issue some sort of token or real world asset
Speaker 1: on the EVM side chain, you can bridge that via
Speaker 1: axl R too XRPL MAInet and also leverage the you know,
Speaker 1: the gcentral is exchange or other protocols that you wish
Speaker 1: to use on XORPO mainenet.
Speaker 3: Okay, got it? Got it. Now with the EVM side chain,
Speaker 3: I've been seeing a lot of questions I posted I
Speaker 3: will I will be interviewing you today and people are
Speaker 3: asking me to ask you about uh tell us about
Speaker 3: the private ledgers and how that works with the x
Speaker 3: ORP ledger. And you know the side chain. Is this
Speaker 3: EVM side chain different from a private side chain.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So with xcrap ledger, you know, there's the ability
Speaker 1: to create custom side chains if you wish and these
Speaker 1: are just like ethereum. You know, the EVM side chain,
Speaker 1: it is fully distinct from the EXCERP ledger. And with
Speaker 1: that you can configure the settings as you wish. So
Speaker 1: you know, if you wanted to create a private permissioned
Speaker 1: side chain, uh for the EXCERP ledger, you know, you're
Speaker 1: definitely free to do that. You can use the ripple
Speaker 1: dy codebase as a starting point create a new side chain,
Speaker 1: and then you know, our design decision was to use
Speaker 1: axel or as a bridge and use xorp as the
Speaker 1: native asset. You can make that same choice, or you
Speaker 1: can kind of build as you wish. It's up to
Speaker 1: the developer. So I know this is a model that
Speaker 1: was used in the past for projects like CBDCs where
Speaker 1: maybe you want a more permissioned environment or more controlled
Speaker 1: environment of who can use the chain, but it is
Speaker 1: entirely distinct from you know, public xorpl mainenet got it.
Speaker 3: So, if I'm a major financial institution and I don't
Speaker 3: want every random Joe Schmoe knowing what I'm doing necessarily
Speaker 3: because I have a proprietary information or customer data, whatever
Speaker 3: it is, I want to use that private side chain
Speaker 3: and you know, I think I know a lot of
Speaker 3: people are going to have the question of are any
Speaker 3: of those transactions, while we may not know what's happening,
Speaker 3: are they counted towards the XORP main net or not.
Speaker 3: It's completely separate now.
Speaker 1: They're completely separate blockchain, not not counted in any part
Speaker 1: of you know, x RPL main net consensus or anything
Speaker 1: like that. They're distinct chains that allow for bridging, just
Speaker 1: like any other blockchain. But to your point there on
Speaker 1: you know, privacy, this is something we're early stage on,
Speaker 1: but you know, we do have a research and development
Speaker 1: team that's doing some great work and to zero knowledge
Speaker 1: and really looking into how can we allow some degree
Speaker 1: of privacy optionality within XRPL main net itself so that
Speaker 1: long term, large institutions won't have to operate on a standalone,
Speaker 1: distinct blockchain. So that's something that you know, longer term
Speaker 1: I'm very excited about as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to your point, a lot of chains are exploring
Speaker 3: a zero ZK and many of them are building like
Speaker 3: private subnets and things like that. So this is not
Speaker 3: exclusive to the XRP ledger, but certainly I guess a
Speaker 3: feature many are exploring because this is what institutions want.
Speaker 1: Definitely, and I think it can be done in a
Speaker 1: in a way that doesn't necessarily compromise on core values
Speaker 1: of blockchain. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Uh.
Speaker 1: It could be confined just to the operations of you know,
Speaker 1: a single entity or a single domain. It's it's early stage,
Speaker 1: but you know, I'm excited about this research path.
Speaker 3: With this private uh side chain. Can they use assets
Speaker 3: like x RP or or l U s D or
Speaker 3: other assets.
Speaker 1: So again it comes down to what bridge is connected. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you know, take the EVM side chain as an example.
Speaker 1: Any private side chain that someone creates will operate similarly.
Speaker 1: We're using Axler is the bridge. Any asset that can
Speaker 1: be bridged by Axlar can exist in a wrapped form
Speaker 1: on the on the side chain.
Speaker 3: Okay, got it? Got it? And then on the other
Speaker 3: aspect of the XRP ledger or of feature is the
Speaker 3: a m M the automated market maker. Tell us about
Speaker 3: that and how that's been going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good question. So you know, xerpl decks was one
Speaker 1: of the first decentralized exchanges to be built. It was
Speaker 1: based on order books, which is a little bit of
Speaker 1: an unusual concept as everyone is used to the automated
Speaker 1: market maker based dex is in blockchain, but we wanted
Speaker 1: to expand the functionality of the order book based decks
Speaker 1: in a couple of different ways. You know, they do
Speaker 1: a great job of providing liquidity for the long tail
Speaker 1: of tokens when you don't have professional market makers that
Speaker 1: are supporting that market. They also allow for you know,
Speaker 1: a yield opportunity for token holders if they're willing to
Speaker 1: supply their liquidity for the functionality of the protocol. So
Speaker 1: mm's were an interesting concept that we wanted to expand
Speaker 1: the XRPL decks with, and we did so in a
Speaker 1: UNI where the two work in an interconnected fashion. So
Speaker 1: if you as a user, uh, you know, executed a
Speaker 1: trade order, the system under the hood will decide will
Speaker 1: you get a better price if the A m M
Speaker 1: solves for that or the order book solves for that.
Speaker 1: And so I think it's quite neat and useful from
Speaker 1: from a trader perspective in that regard, and it's growing
Speaker 1: quite well. I don't have the exact you know, TVL
Speaker 1: numbers at hand today, but you know it's it's grown
Speaker 1: in ranges of tens of millions quarter quarter over quarter,
Speaker 1: and there hasn't been any you know, inorganic incentive programs
Speaker 1: to to date, so all of that was just bootstrapped
Speaker 1: or organic adoption. So I think it's going very well
Speaker 1: to date.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. And I noticed there's been an influx of
Speaker 3: meme coins on the x RP ledger, you know, meme
Speaker 3: coins at this big movement at started last year and
Speaker 3: it's been going on on Salon and other blockchains. How
Speaker 3: are you guys feeling about uh, you know mean coin
Speaker 3: Issuer is on the XRP ledger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the beauty of blockchain and and open
Speaker 1: source development is uh, developers users they can build and
Speaker 1: partake in whatever is most interesting to them. And you know,
Speaker 1: we saw similar types of uh speculation and uh you
Speaker 1: know hype with art collectible NFTs for example, a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago. And so while it's not something that
Speaker 1: I or Ripple uh you know, spend a significant amount
Speaker 1: of time on, it's a little bit more speculative than
Speaker 1: the use cases that we focus on. Uh. It's a
Speaker 1: fun and interesting use case that you know, might be
Speaker 1: a convenient entry point for certain consumers.
Speaker 3: Oh for sure. Yeah, it's you know, like I'm not
Speaker 3: a big fan of new coins, and uh, although there
Speaker 3: are some legacy menue coins which I think are great
Speaker 3: because they have a brand that commune, like doge coin
Speaker 3: and so forth. But you know, it's interesting to see
Speaker 3: all these things happening on the blockchain and like, no
Speaker 3: one could necessarily predicted NFTs and no one could have
Speaker 3: predicted mem coins, and it's just funny how these things
Speaker 3: pop up. But you know, humans are going to find
Speaker 3: the things they like, and they're going to like you said,
Speaker 3: it's open sources, they're gonna build what they what they want.
Speaker 3: In regardless to institutions that are using the XRP ledger,
Speaker 3: tell us about the types. You may not be able
Speaker 3: to give us names, but what are the types their banks,
Speaker 3: hedge funds, what are they?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's a variety ranging from you know banks,
Speaker 1: you know SoC gen for example, that are interested in
Speaker 1: issuing stable coins on the XORP ledger, to asset managers
Speaker 1: that are participating with some of the tokenization platforms. There's
Speaker 1: been you know, Aberdeen has issued certain money market funds
Speaker 1: through our checks, which is a tokenization provider on the
Speaker 1: XORP ledger. So I think there's there's a wide range
Speaker 1: from banks to asset managers that are starting to discover
Speaker 1: the value of of tokenization and of XRPL in particular.
Speaker 3: Mm hm. And you know when they when they tokenize
Speaker 3: on the blockchain, you know, are they thinking about I guess,
Speaker 3: let me reframe this. You know, are they thinking like
Speaker 3: the crawl walk up run approach or they kind of
Speaker 3: know what they want to do. We're going to tokenize
Speaker 3: and then we're going to enter do some sort of
Speaker 3: DeFi We're going to do this and that, or are
Speaker 3: they still trying to figure out what get getting in
Speaker 3: a lay over the land?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really depends on the institution. You know, there's
Speaker 1: also cryptonative institutions which I didn't mention, which are knee
Speaker 1: deep in crypto and they have been for for several years.
Speaker 1: Uh so some of the you know big money you know,
Speaker 1: uh money managers in the space. It really depends. It's
Speaker 1: nice with you know, the Ripple organization. We have a
Speaker 1: number of different touch points with institutions. So take Custody
Speaker 1: for example, they'll sit down with large banks that our
Speaker 1: interest in tokenization. They know a lot about it, but
Speaker 1: they haven't done it. Firsthand and are really looking for,
Speaker 1: you know, a guiding hand to walk them through you know,
Speaker 1: their tokenization journey. And that's something that our custody team
Speaker 1: has has been able to really lead the charge with
Speaker 1: and help some of the bigger legacy financial institutions take
Speaker 1: their initial initial steps there. Uh. And that's when you know,
Speaker 1: other products can be brought into the mix, ranging from
Speaker 1: our U s D to the payments products as well
Speaker 1: as EXCERP Ledger of course, so that definitely helps. And
Speaker 1: then we have you know, more crypto forward organizations, some
Speaker 1: of the money market funds like Aberdeen UH for example,
Speaker 1: they're an asset manager out of the UK, and they
Speaker 1: have a lot of really smart forward thinking ideas around
Speaker 1: how you know they can leverage the decentralis exchange with
Speaker 1: on chain trading and you know how they can really
Speaker 1: move beyond just bringing the asset on chain to unlocking utility,
Speaker 1: you know, with a mind for you know, compliance and
Speaker 1: regulation and keeping things above bar. So definitely excited about
Speaker 1: you know, the wide range of institutional use cases.
Speaker 3: Oh for sure, you mentioned r l U s D
Speaker 3: and UH a ripple stable coin of course. Uh. It
Speaker 3: is on the x RP leisure, but also ethereum tell
Speaker 3: us about how that's been going, and also are their
Speaker 3: plans to expand to other blockchains.
Speaker 1: Yeah, great, great question. So r u S is UH
Speaker 1: doing well. Adoption has has been rapid, you know, their
Speaker 1: support and a variety of different centralized exchanges. UH market
Speaker 1: cap is is rapidly growing. UH. So I think we're
Speaker 1: excited about it. You know, we're working closely with key
Speaker 1: regulators to UH ensure that we can maintain standards as
Speaker 1: as the most compliant you know stable coin on the
Speaker 1: market today, UH, and seeing a lot of demand within
Speaker 1: you know, cross border payments and in particular markets that
Speaker 1: are looking for US dollar denominated UH stable coins that
Speaker 1: that can help unlock UH you know, peer to peer
Speaker 1: payments or B two B payments as well. So overall,
Speaker 1: I think it's it's been going well. In terms of
Speaker 1: other chains, you know, that's that's not my team. I
Speaker 1: can't necessarily touch on the hat. I don't know their
Speaker 1: latest latest strategy there.
Speaker 3: So could an institution or you know, whatever they may be,
Speaker 3: come and issue their own stable coin on the XRP ledger,
Speaker 3: you know, given that this is open source, but you know,
Speaker 3: I know Ripple has its own stable coin there, but
Speaker 3: technically another issue you know, company could do the same, right, Oh.
Speaker 1: Of course, Yeah, anyone can issue a stable coin on
Speaker 1: the x or P ledger. You can issue a stable
Speaker 1: coin on the x or P ledger. You know, from
Speaker 1: a technical standpoint, I think you know where things become
Speaker 1: challenging is, you know, are you meeting DFS and other regulations?
Speaker 1: How are you managing you know, the treasury is everything
Speaker 1: back to one to one? How reputable are the you know,
Speaker 1: institutions holding the underlying asset? You know, is it diversified?
Speaker 1: So you know, anyone can issue an asset. I think
Speaker 1: it's the quality that that becomes important.
Speaker 3: So Jesse, tell us a bit about the other things
Speaker 3: that are on your roadmap with the XRP Ledger. What
Speaker 3: else are you guys working on and what can we
Speaker 3: expect in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's a couple other features I'm especially excited about.
Speaker 1: So permission decks is one of those. So we've built
Speaker 1: a permissioning mechanism on the XRP Ledger called permission Domains.
Speaker 1: It leverages another proposal that went out this year called credentials,
Speaker 1: So it basically creates a controlled environment where you can
Speaker 1: basically have certain requirements to participate. So imagine you only
Speaker 1: want players that are ky seed and over a certain
Speaker 1: age to participate in your protocol. You can use credentials
Speaker 1: in the Permission Domains tool to do that, and we're
Speaker 1: applying that to a couple different protocols. The Permission decks
Speaker 1: is one, so this will allow regulated entities like Ripple
Speaker 1: to bring a portion of their payments volume onto the
Speaker 1: decentralized exchange and save on some of the costs and
Speaker 1: fees that exists with centralized exchange. So I think this
Speaker 1: is a really monumental feature is in that it allows
Speaker 1: finally institutions to bring centralized exchange activity onto the decentralized
Speaker 1: exchange in a compliant way. So that's one that I'm
Speaker 1: especially excited about. We've already released some of the components
Speaker 1: of that in a release earlier this month, so that's
Speaker 1: out for voting through the coalidator set right now. And
Speaker 1: then another one I'll just touch on at a high
Speaker 1: level is the lending protocol. So we're working on an
Speaker 1: XORPL native lending protocol made up of a couple of
Speaker 1: different components, but it basically allows for fixed term under
Speaker 1: collateralized loans in V one to be originated directly on
Speaker 1: the x ORP ledger. So that kind of kind of
Speaker 1: rounds out what I see as the kind of core
Speaker 1: pillars of bringing TRADFI onto blockchain, which is support for payments,
Speaker 1: support for trading, and support for credit, which are clearly,
Speaker 1: you know, some of the key components that make our
Speaker 1: trade five system work today.
Speaker 3: So JAZZI, do you think like in twenty years, right,
Speaker 3: and not that banks are going to disappear, but many
Speaker 3: of them are going to be using blockchains like the
Speaker 3: XRP ledger, but a lot of borrowing lending will be
Speaker 3: done this way where we don't necessarily have to walk
Speaker 3: into our local bank or the big JP Morgans and
Speaker 3: you know, apply, but could go on an app online
Speaker 3: and through some decentralized finance protocol or application and put
Speaker 3: out feelers and and the lending or the loan or
Speaker 3: whatever could come from another part of the world because
Speaker 3: it's all on chain.
Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, I mean I'm definitely a team evolution
Speaker 1: of traditional finance as opposed to replacement.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And you know, if banks are willing to adopt some
Speaker 1: of these modern infrastructure components like blockchain and help remove
Speaker 1: inefficiencies and push on some of those cost savings to
Speaker 1: the borrower, you know, reduce some of the inaccessibility that
Speaker 1: exists in our our current credit system. Then yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that's a really exciting, exciting future.
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask you about the xrp lectric decentralization
Speaker 3: and I want to get updates from you on you know,
Speaker 3: the number of validators, nodes and things like that, and
Speaker 3: how you guys are pushing to have it be more decentralized,
Speaker 3: because I don't know if there's any blockchain that's one
Speaker 3: hundred percent decentralized. I think everyone is on the path
Speaker 3: to getting as decentralized as possible. Obviously the x rapey
Speaker 3: Ledger is decentralized, but I viewed as a scale. I
Speaker 3: don't know if you agree with me and tell us
Speaker 3: a bit about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So extrapy Ledger uses a unique consensus mechanism that's
Speaker 1: a little bit different from what you've seen, you know,
Speaker 1: with popular chains, including proof of work, proof of steak.
Speaker 1: It's similar to proof of authority, but not exactly. I
Speaker 1: think that's an easy way to summarize it. Although misses
Speaker 1: some of the nuances. But that being said, you know,
Speaker 1: there's thirty five validators in the UNL, which is the
Speaker 1: approved list of validators that will participate in consensus and
Speaker 1: also vote on amendments. So all the roadmap items that
Speaker 1: I've just been talking to talking about, all of those
Speaker 1: go up for vote, and and it's that UNL list
Speaker 1: that ultimately has to vote for it. So we're looking
Speaker 1: for eighty percent or more consensus of the thirty five
Speaker 1: un L validators held for about two weeks, and then
Speaker 1: the amendment is activated, assuming the position doesn't change. So
Speaker 1: of those thirty five validators, Ripple one runs one of them.
Speaker 1: So there's a number of other validators run by you know,
Speaker 1: key contributors in the community, you know, academic universities as well,
Speaker 1: and some other institutions within the XRPL community. So that's
Speaker 1: the kind of un L validator set. In terms of nodes,
Speaker 1: I don't have the exact number top of mind, but
Speaker 1: there's I believe over over a thousand nodes. I can
Speaker 1: follow up with with exact figures there, but I would
Speaker 1: consider it, you know, fairly decentralized. There isn't really an
Speaker 1: entity running multiple validators out of out of the thirty five,
Speaker 1: and so you know, I know there's a lot of
Speaker 1: kind of misnumbers out there about ripple operating the the
Speaker 1: you know, having a dominant say over the x ORP ledger. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: you know, all of these amendments that we've talked about
Speaker 1: as well as consensus, we have the same control as
Speaker 1: anyone else, which is one out of thirty five currently.
Speaker 3: So we've seen the success of the bigcoin and ethereo mets.
Speaker 3: Particularly the bigcoin et aps have broken records. Now there's
Speaker 3: a ton of all coin et aps in play. Big
Speaker 3: issuers are filing for them with the sec XRP is
Speaker 3: getting a lot of them. You know, how do you
Speaker 3: view these applications and the demand for the XRP asset.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's great. Twenty twenty four was a
Speaker 1: banner year for crypto ETFs. The current administration is definitely
Speaker 1: favorable on that front. So I expect to see more
Speaker 1: progress to come. You know, from an institutional isation standpoint
Speaker 1: of crypto assets, having access through an ETF two assets
Speaker 1: like BTC and ethereum makes a lot of sense. It
Speaker 1: really lowers the barrier for everyday people to gain access
Speaker 1: and gain exposure to what's becoming, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the key asset classes in the global economy. Uh. And
Speaker 1: so I think it makes a lot of sense. As
Speaker 1: you mentioned, we've seen BTC and ethereum x RPS has
Speaker 1: filed as well, and there's a lot of traction there.
Speaker 1: You know. I expect the momentum to continue, and I
Speaker 1: think it's great for institutions. I think it's great for
Speaker 1: you know, consumers and investors as well.
Speaker 3: Oh for sure. And then you know, this year, everyone
Speaker 3: is kind of expecting crypto legislation to be passed along
Speaker 3: with staple couint legislation, given that we've got the most
Speaker 3: pro crypto government ever from the President to Congress to
Speaker 3: the SEC. The big change that's happened across the board.
Speaker 3: You and the team at Ripple, you know, excited about
Speaker 3: these things, and you know, how are you viewing this
Speaker 3: change in the.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love innovation ultimately, and I think that uh,
Speaker 1: some of the uh you know, wells notices and some
Speaker 1: of the the actions that were taken previously, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: against certain entities that were operating in the crypto space
Speaker 1: in a way that was as above bar as they
Speaker 1: knew how or could you know, we're still hit with
Speaker 1: response negative responses from you know, past administrations. Uh, the
Speaker 1: fact that you know, some entities were afraid to even
Speaker 1: seek guidance because that could result in uh, you know,
Speaker 1: negative actions against them. It is not you know, a
Speaker 1: path towards uh, positive innovation and improvement in our financial system.
Speaker 1: It's it's really just staggering growth. And so you know,
Speaker 1: from that respect, I'm excited to see uh, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the cases dropped already and excited to see
Speaker 1: uh sort of the barriers that that this uhduces or
Speaker 1: removes by giving a clear path to innovation, and hopefully
Speaker 1: we start to see more and more guidelines around, you know,
Speaker 1: how we should operate within the crypto space in the
Speaker 1: US in a way that is safe and is you know,
Speaker 1: above bar So overall, I'm positive on on that front
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 3: And you know, are you anticipating you know, once these
Speaker 3: things are passed, there's a boom in the US of
Speaker 3: crypto you know versus in the past has been a struggle.
Speaker 3: But entrepreneurs, innovators can hit the ground running. That may
Speaker 3: be more capital coming into this acid class in the industry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, the the ETFs are are
Speaker 1: a great pathway for that. And then you know, alongside regulation,
Speaker 1: I'm excited to see some of the user experiences, some
Speaker 1: of the you know, utility for certain defied protocols to
Speaker 1: to really improve and increase, and I think that will
Speaker 1: also bring the next wave of adoption.
Speaker 3: All right, days, I got some wrap up questions here
Speaker 3: for you. First, if you could create your own metaverse,
Speaker 3: what will the theme be?
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably something like an adventure land. I love rock
Speaker 1: climbing and you know, all sorts of adventure sports, so
Speaker 1: you know a place that you can do that in
Speaker 1: a safe and exciting way.
Speaker 3: And rapid fire questions.
Speaker 1: Favorite food food This is embarrassing, but mozzarellistics.
Speaker 3: I love Monzireli sticks. A favorite musician or bad.
Speaker 1: It varies, but right now probably Zach Bryan.
Speaker 3: Favorite movie.
Speaker 1: Forst. Gump is a classic.
Speaker 3: That's a great man. Favorite book.
Speaker 1: I really like Let My People Go Surfing by Von
Speaker 1: Schnard hmm.
Speaker 3: And when you're not working a ripple, what do you
Speaker 3: doing for fun?
Speaker 1: Mostly outdoors activities, kiteboarding, rock climbing, all those those types
Speaker 1: of fun things.
Speaker 3: Awesome. Jessie Pleasure chatting with you really exciting updates around
Speaker 3: the XRP Ledger and I would love to have you
Speaker 3: back on you know, as things progress. But thank you
Speaker 3: so much for joining me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me Tony. It was great chatting
Speaker 1: with you.