WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.600 So there's a variety ranging from you know banks you 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:06.599 know Socchen for example, that are interested in issuing stable 3 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:11.039 coins on the XORP ledger, to asset managers that are 4 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:14.759 participating with some of the tokenization platforms. There's been you know, 5 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:19.199 Aberdeen has issued certain money market funds through our checks, 6 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:22.839 which is a tokenization provider on the XORP Ledger. 7 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:30.039 So this episode is brought to you by bidgo, which 8 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:32.479 is a top tier crypto custodian that has been in 9 00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:35.399 the industry since twenty thirteen. It's headed up by Mike 10 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:38.679 Belshiw who's a Web one point zero two point zero legend. 11 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:43.359 Bitco provides incredible services. 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They're giving away 29 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:47.280 at least one bitcoin every quarter, So if you sign 30 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:49.519 up and have funds on the platform through the last 31 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:52.879 day of each quarter starting December thirty first, twenty twenty four, 32 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:55.959 you can be eligible to win some free bitcoin. 33 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:56.280 Here. 34 00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:59.000 So if you'd like to learn more about bidgo, go 35 00:01:59.079 --> 00:01:59.959 to bidgo dot com. 36 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:03.159 Link will be in the description. Hey everybody, welcome into 37 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:06.040 the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward and 38 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:08.919 joining me today is Jasmine Cooper, who's head of product 39 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:11.240 at ripple x. Jazz. Great to have you on. 40 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:14.360 Thanks for having me, Tony. Excited to chat with you. 41 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:17.159 Yeah, JAZZI, thank you for taking the time to do this. 42 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.719 Lots going on with the XRP Ledger, and recently Ripple 43 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:25.400 release a report titled Institutional DeFi on the XRP Ledger, 44 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:28.439 what's live and What's next. So certainly the meat and 45 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:30.680 potatoes of our conversation is going to be around this. 46 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.280 But I always like to kick it off with you 47 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:36.719 folks background and how they got into crypto. So tell 48 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:38.400 us a bit about yourself, where you're from and what's 49 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:39.479 your professional background. 50 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:43.680 Sure, yeah, so I'm originally from Connecticut, but I've kind 51 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:49.400 of bounced around the US from California, Texas, Colorado, and yeah, 52 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:52.319 I've been working in the fintech space for a long time. 53 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:57.680 This started primarily with my first company I started, which 54 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:03.680 was consumer financial health application tended to help young professionals 55 00:03:03.719 --> 00:03:08.080 improve their financial situation. From there, I ended up pausing 56 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:12.599 that venture and moving into an opportunity within product in 57 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:16.120 the mortgage technology space, where I got a good understanding 58 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:20.360 of the back ends of how mortgage mortgage servicers lenders 59 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:24.280 operate and really get a sense of some of the 60 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:29.840 limitations and boundaries within traditional finance. And so that really 61 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:33.120 set me up well to shift over to ripple where 62 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:36.759 I started working professionally in the blockchain and crypto space 63 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:41.400 and really being firsthand with you know, now institutional DeFi 64 00:03:41.479 --> 00:03:44.319 and fixing some of those problems that I saw in 65 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:45.000 the past. 66 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:48.319 Couple roles, No, for sure, And what was your first 67 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:52.080 encounter with bigcoin or crypto and what was your aha moment? 68 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:57.199 Yeah, I think that was back in you know, a 69 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:00.000 little bit later than some others, but maybe twenty sixteen 70 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:04.479 twenty seventeen, when smart contracts Ethereum smart contracts just started 71 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:08.879 to become popular. You know, bitcoin as a token and 72 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:12.439 token trading was never really the most interesting aspect of 73 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:14.800 crypto to me. To me, it was more so the 74 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:19.399 underlying blockchain and smart contracts that could power entire industries 75 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:23.079 in a decentralized way. So learning about ethereum smart contracts, 76 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:26.959 I think one of the earliest examples people gave was 77 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:30.279 around delivering mail and certifying when you know, packages were 78 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:34.959 being delivered, and that stood out as especially interesting to 79 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:39.519 remove some of the inefficiencies, trust layers, and cost structures 80 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.279 that exists in a centralized way of doing things. 81 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:45.600 Now, you mentioned you worked in the real estate, our 82 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:48.319 mortgage industry, right, I did as well as a loan 83 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:53.519 processor at a mortgage broker many moons ago. And now 84 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:57.079 you have, of course companies trying to tokenize real estate 85 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:00.600 but also improve the real estate process, which more contract 86 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:04.199 technology and blockchains. What are your thoughts on that? And 87 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:05.839 it may cut out a lot of fees, a lot 88 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:09.120 of middlemen, and in addition to real estate market and 89 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:12.560 mortgage industry, other industries are going to be changed as well. 90 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:15.439 But it seems like, you know, real estate is going 91 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:17.399 to be a big one because we all need housing, 92 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:18.560 we all need shelter. 93 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:23.040 Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I mean, real estate tokenization 94 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:26.439 hasn't been a use case I've personally spent too much 95 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:28.680 time on. I do see the opportunity there from a 96 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:32.240 crowd funding perspective, you know, it can be tricky in 97 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.279 terms of managing consumer protection and all of that with 98 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:41.439 giving access to various real estate investment opportunities. So yeah, 99 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:44.160 I think I think it's interesting from an access standpoint, 100 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:49.040 from an efficiency standpoint. But where I really get excited about, 101 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:52.720 you know, on chain, you know, real world assets, for example, 102 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:55.439 is when it comes to you know, a lot of 103 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:59.000 money movement, like with collateral use cases and you know, 104 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:01.600 global payments and things like that. I think that's where 105 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.000 blockchain can can really shine. But you know, real estate 106 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:08.800 is also, you know, definitely interesting, and you know, if 107 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:10.759 I were to guess it, you know it's going to 108 00:06:10.839 --> 00:06:14.800 increase in uptake over the next five ten years. 109 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:17.319 Oh for sure. Now tell us a bit about ripple 110 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:19.279 X for those who may not know. We know of 111 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:22.720 ripple the company, but what does ripple X specifically do. 112 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:26.800 Yeah, good question. So riple X is a distinct business 113 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:31.000 unit within ripple that focuses on the XORP Ledger, the 114 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:36.000 public layer one blockchain. So we participate with the XRPL 115 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.759 in a number of different ways. My team, the product team, 116 00:06:38.839 --> 00:06:43.759 contributes to the core features and capabilities, so we'll design 117 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:48.720 alongside the community, implement, propose new feature amendments for the 118 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:52.839 XRP ledger. You know, it works a little bit differently 119 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:55.319 in that it's not smart contract based, so a lot 120 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.560 of the new features are at the core blockchain level. 121 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:02.560 Some other teams in ripple x focus on developer enablement 122 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:07.000 that can be either through programs like accelerators, incubators, grants, 123 00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:12.040 as well as through technical tooling, so client libraries, explorers, 124 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:15.240 and a variety of different tools that can help the 125 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:19.720 ecosystem of DAPT developers build and launch their products. So 126 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:22.439 that's that's really the focus on Ripple X. Of Ripple X, 127 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:26.279 we stand alongside other businesses within Ripple, you know that 128 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:28.480 focus on other products such as r l U, S 129 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:30.879 d E, custody and payments for example. 130 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:34.480 Now, there's been a lot happening on the XRP ledger, 131 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.079 a lot of exciting news and developments. But referencing the 132 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:41.279 recent report I was put out about institutional DeFi and 133 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.199 the XRP Ledger, tell us about that. What's on the 134 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:46.360 roadmap here? What are you guys trying to achieve? 135 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:51.360 Yeah, yeah, good question. So you know, Ripple and ripple 136 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:54.639 X are a single contributor to the XRP Ledger. So 137 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:57.920 I don't view view this as the XORP ledgers roadmap, 138 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:01.519 but rather, you know, Ripple's contribution and our view of 139 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:04.639 how we would like to see uh some of the 140 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:07.600 use cases on the x ORP ledger grow and expand 141 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:10.000 you know, I think we're not the only ones in 142 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:12.560 the industry that are seeing the big uptake this year 143 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:16.759 and and and last year by institutions. Uh, and now 144 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:20.600 that's accelerated even further by you know, the current regulatory 145 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:24.000 environment that's starting to really look deeply at digital assets 146 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:27.199 and how they can improve industries. Uh, as well as 147 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:30.879 the current administration in the US that's now you know, 148 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:36.440 more crypto friendly than than past administrations have been. So 149 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:40.480 there's a lot of a lot of tailwinds that we 150 00:08:40.600 --> 00:08:42.720 see now and we think it's the right time to 151 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:46.639 really double down and do what you know, Ripple has 152 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:50.759 really been focused on historically, which is providing blockchain based 153 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:55.600 building blocks for financial institutions to bring their businesses or 154 00:08:55.639 --> 00:09:00.919 part of their businesses onto the blockchain and unlock efficiencies, reductions, 155 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:05.039 et cetera, you know, but by leveraging the core competencies 156 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:08.320 of blockchain. So that's kind of what we're looking at 157 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:10.360 at a high level, and you know, happy to to 158 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:13.159 dive into specific examples of that as you're interested. 159 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:16.759 Yeah. Sure. How about tokenization because I saw it, yes 160 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:18.840 the other day r W A dot x y Z. 161 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:21.559 I think that's what they called integrated x XRP ledger 162 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:25.159 where we can see the active developments that are happening 163 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:29.279 on the XRP ledger for tokenized assets. What is your 164 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:32.639 vision there and how you how are you trying to 165 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:36.559 track institutions to tokenize on the XRP ledger. 166 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.960 Yeah, yeah, that's that's a good a good starting place. 167 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:43.200 So tokenization, you know, is kind of the beginning of 168 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:46.039 the life cycle for any sort of on chain finance. 169 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:47.679 So if you want to do stable coin payments, you 170 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:51.200 first need stable coins. If you want to do you know, 171 00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:54.679 real estate investment diversification, you first need in on chain 172 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.320 real estate token or something along those lines. So tokenization 173 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:01.159 is really the beginning of of everything when it comes 174 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:04.960 to r w A and institutional DEFIH and so we're 175 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.440 really just trying to increase the utility and lower barriers 176 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.519 to entry for institutions. So one proposal we put out 177 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:17.080 recently is called multipurpose tokens. You can think of that 178 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:20.919 along the lines of a semi fungible token UH. And 179 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:25.799 that's that standard allows for UH developers and token issuers 180 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:29.799 to attach metadata directly to the token object on chain, 181 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:35.240 versus the traditional or legacy UH fungible token on the 182 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:39.480 x ORP ledger, which we call tokens or IOUs you know, 183 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:42.799 is more of a relational object. So you know, io, 184 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:45.720 you one dollar, you know you you've given me you've 185 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:49.679 given me one token. So by allowing a standalone object, 186 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:52.559 this is better for you know, say a bond where 187 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:55.120 you want to store the terms and the duration, the 188 00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:58.519 interest rate, all you know on that on chain object. 189 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:01.519 So we're really trying to look at these use cases 190 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:03.960 and make sure we have the building blocks and the 191 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:07.960 standards to best support them and give you know, a 192 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:11.960 best in class experience when they bring TraFi onto blockchain web. 193 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:14.000 Question on the multi purpose token, just to make sure 194 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:16.320 I wrap my head around it, and also for the audience. 195 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:19.679 So we know of NFTs non fungible tokens, and then 196 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:24.840 you have fungible tokens. So would these tokens be It's 197 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:27.279 kind of how should I put it? It's a fifth 198 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:30.600 it's a hybrid. You know, it has the ability to 199 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:34.159 do certain things but then be dynamic and become fungible. 200 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:35.480 How does that work? 201 00:11:36.039 --> 00:11:38.759 Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you can issue a set of 202 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:43.080 them and they're basically interchangeable between one another. You know, 203 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:46.759 if you had to compare, they'll in practicality, they'll operate 204 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:49.320 more like a fungible token than a non fungible token. 205 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:52.159 So I think it's it's you know a little bit 206 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:55.200 more close to that. You see some standards along those 207 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:58.240 lines in Ethereum, like I think one one five to 208 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:03.360 five is a similar instance. But the core of mpts 209 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.639 is really about the attachment of that metadata as well 210 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:10.320 as the scalability of the asset. So you know, another 211 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:12.559 thing that we're keeping in mind as we build new 212 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:17.639 features and capabilities is the core competencies that exist today 213 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:21.919 and not sacrificing any of those. So scalability performance. You know, 214 00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:26.519 right now transactions are still costing a fraction of a penny, 215 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:29.360 you know, three to four second block times. We don't 216 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:31.639 want to sacrifice any of that. So mpts are also 217 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:35.559 highly highly scalable, which is another benefit from my eyes. 218 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:39.679 Interesting, I love it. I mean it's amazing of the 219 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:46.440 new iterations or ideas and utility that's you know, coming 220 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:51.679 as we move later into these adoption cycle and it's 221 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:54.320 pretty cool. Like I wouldn't have thought about multi purpose token, 222 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:58.600 so that's really cool. You mentioned etherorem EVM side chain. 223 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:00.879 Tell us about this and how it will work with 224 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:01.799 the XRP ledger. 225 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:07.600 Yeah, So the EVM side chain is just that, it's 226 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:09.639 a side chain, it's a standalone chain. It's not a 227 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:14.600 layer two from the x ORP ledger. Accelra will service 228 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:16.919 the bridge between x or pl main neet and the 229 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.519 EVM side chain, so that will allow for the bridging 230 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:23.000 over of the native asset, which will be x r 231 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:27.360 p uh so wrapped XRP by acceler will service the 232 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:31.879 native asset. And you know, it's it's a Cosmo space chain, 233 00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:36.559 so there's IBC built into it. You know, it also 234 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:39.879 has the v moost you module as well to allow 235 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:43.000 for EVM smart contract compatibility, which is kind of the 236 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:47.039 core use case of it. And yeah, I'm excited about it. 237 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:50.960 I think it gives developers familiar environment to experiment, test 238 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:54.879 and innovate in a way that XERPL maynite may net 239 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:59.639 might not. You know, there's a limited set of programmability 240 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:03.399 cusvisibility of some of the primitives on MAInet, and while 241 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.440 I believe that those are best suited for certain use 242 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:12.039 cases like payments, trading, lending, you know, collateral for institutional 243 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:15.279 DeFi there's still that long tail of you know, cryptonative 244 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.480 use cases or you know, the leading edge of innovation 245 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:21.960 use cases where XORPL MAInet might not be the best 246 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.759 best place. So EVM side chain is a good alternative 247 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:25.039 for that. 248 00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:28.000 Got it? So you mentioned that could be like a 249 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:32.080 testing ground or and correct me if I'm wrong here 250 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:36.240 in my thought process. Right here, it enables some smart 251 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:38.759 contract features. I can use this as a testing ground, 252 00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:41.279 but I can also build something that can then be 253 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:45.600 moved over to the XRP mainlet XRP letter mainlet. 254 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:49.879 Yeah, definitely, so fully interoperable. From an asset standpoint, if 255 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.799 you issue some sort of token or real world asset 256 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:55.960 on the EVM side chain, you can bridge that via 257 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:59.399 axl R too XRPL MAInet and also leverage the you know, 258 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:02.720 the gcentral is exchange or other protocols that you wish 259 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:04.080 to use on XORPO mainenet. 260 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:08.679 Okay, got it? Got it. Now with the EVM side chain, 261 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.240 I've been seeing a lot of questions I posted I 262 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:13.879 will I will be interviewing you today and people are 263 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:17.360 asking me to ask you about uh tell us about 264 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:19.639 the private ledgers and how that works with the x 265 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:22.519 ORP ledger. And you know the side chain. Is this 266 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:25.799 EVM side chain different from a private side chain. 267 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:30.840 Yeah. So with xcrap ledger, you know, there's the ability 268 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:35.000 to create custom side chains if you wish and these 269 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:38.039 are just like ethereum. You know, the EVM side chain, 270 00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:43.120 it is fully distinct from the EXCERP ledger. And with 271 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:47.279 that you can configure the settings as you wish. So 272 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:50.120 you know, if you wanted to create a private permissioned 273 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:53.600 side chain, uh for the EXCERP ledger, you know, you're 274 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.039 definitely free to do that. You can use the ripple 275 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:59.879 dy codebase as a starting point create a new side chain, 276 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.639 and then you know, our design decision was to use 277 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:05.960 axel or as a bridge and use xorp as the 278 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:08.919 native asset. You can make that same choice, or you 279 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:11.440 can kind of build as you wish. It's up to 280 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.600 the developer. So I know this is a model that 281 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:18.159 was used in the past for projects like CBDCs where 282 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.360 maybe you want a more permissioned environment or more controlled 283 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:24.679 environment of who can use the chain, but it is 284 00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:29.320 entirely distinct from you know, public xorpl mainenet got it. 285 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:32.120 So, if I'm a major financial institution and I don't 286 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:35.639 want every random Joe Schmoe knowing what I'm doing necessarily 287 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:39.559 because I have a proprietary information or customer data, whatever 288 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:42.919 it is, I want to use that private side chain 289 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:46.480 and you know, I think I know a lot of 290 00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:48.840 people are going to have the question of are any 291 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.159 of those transactions, while we may not know what's happening, 292 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:55.720 are they counted towards the XORP main net or not. 293 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:57.759 It's completely separate now. 294 00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:03.360 They're completely separate blockchain, not not counted in any part 295 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:06.599 of you know, x RPL main net consensus or anything 296 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:10.160 like that. They're distinct chains that allow for bridging, just 297 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:13.799 like any other blockchain. But to your point there on 298 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.279 you know, privacy, this is something we're early stage on, 299 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:21.319 but you know, we do have a research and development 300 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.720 team that's doing some great work and to zero knowledge 301 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.799 and really looking into how can we allow some degree 302 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:32.240 of privacy optionality within XRPL main net itself so that 303 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:36.759 long term, large institutions won't have to operate on a standalone, 304 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.559 distinct blockchain. So that's something that you know, longer term 305 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:42.119 I'm very excited about as well. 306 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:45.160 Yeah, to your point, a lot of chains are exploring 307 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:49.960 a zero ZK and many of them are building like 308 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.759 private subnets and things like that. So this is not 309 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:58.160 exclusive to the XRP ledger, but certainly I guess a 310 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:01.480 feature many are exploring because this is what institutions want. 311 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:05.119 Definitely, and I think it can be done in a 312 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.599 in a way that doesn't necessarily compromise on core values 313 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:11.319 of blockchain. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Uh. 314 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.480 It could be confined just to the operations of you know, 315 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.359 a single entity or a single domain. It's it's early stage, 316 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:21.359 but you know, I'm excited about this research path. 317 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:26.839 With this private uh side chain. Can they use assets 318 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:29.240 like x RP or or l U s D or 319 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:29.920 other assets. 320 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:36.000 So again it comes down to what bridge is connected. Okay, 321 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:39.960 so you know, take the EVM side chain as an example. 322 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:43.759 Any private side chain that someone creates will operate similarly. 323 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:46.759 We're using Axler is the bridge. Any asset that can 324 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:50.480 be bridged by Axlar can exist in a wrapped form 325 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:52.400 on the on the side chain. 326 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:57.039 Okay, got it? Got it? And then on the other 327 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:00.799 aspect of the XRP ledger or of feature is the 328 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.799 a m M the automated market maker. Tell us about 329 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:04.960 that and how that's been going. 330 00:19:05.799 --> 00:19:10.759 Yeah, good question. So you know, xerpl decks was one 331 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:14.559 of the first decentralized exchanges to be built. It was 332 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:17.400 based on order books, which is a little bit of 333 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:20.759 an unusual concept as everyone is used to the automated 334 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:26.160 market maker based dex is in blockchain, but we wanted 335 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:29.920 to expand the functionality of the order book based decks 336 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:33.200 in a couple of different ways. You know, they do 337 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:35.880 a great job of providing liquidity for the long tail 338 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:40.000 of tokens when you don't have professional market makers that 339 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:44.319 are supporting that market. They also allow for you know, 340 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.160 a yield opportunity for token holders if they're willing to 341 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:51.039 supply their liquidity for the functionality of the protocol. So 342 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:54.880 mm's were an interesting concept that we wanted to expand 343 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:59.759 the XRPL decks with, and we did so in a 344 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:03.960 UNI where the two work in an interconnected fashion. So 345 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:07.160 if you as a user, uh, you know, executed a 346 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.799 trade order, the system under the hood will decide will 347 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:12.839 you get a better price if the A m M 348 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.079 solves for that or the order book solves for that. 349 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:20.000 And so I think it's quite neat and useful from 350 00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:24.119 from a trader perspective in that regard, and it's growing 351 00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:27.240 quite well. I don't have the exact you know, TVL 352 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.519 numbers at hand today, but you know it's it's grown 353 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:34.759 in ranges of tens of millions quarter quarter over quarter, 354 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:39.799 and there hasn't been any you know, inorganic incentive programs 355 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:42.160 to to date, so all of that was just bootstrapped 356 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:45.319 or organic adoption. So I think it's going very well 357 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:46.279 to date. 358 00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:50.519 That's awesome. And I noticed there's been an influx of 359 00:20:50.599 --> 00:20:53.839 meme coins on the x RP ledger, you know, meme 360 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:57.759 coins at this big movement at started last year and 361 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:00.359 it's been going on on Salon and other blockchains. How 362 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.000 are you guys feeling about uh, you know mean coin 363 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:04.880 Issuer is on the XRP ledger. 364 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:10.759 Yeah, I mean the beauty of blockchain and and open 365 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:15.440 source development is uh, developers users they can build and 366 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:21.039 partake in whatever is most interesting to them. And you know, 367 00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:26.400 we saw similar types of uh speculation and uh you 368 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:30.039 know hype with art collectible NFTs for example, a couple 369 00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:33.160 of years ago. And so while it's not something that 370 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.559 I or Ripple uh you know, spend a significant amount 371 00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:40.400 of time on, it's a little bit more speculative than 372 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:42.720 the use cases that we focus on. Uh. It's a 373 00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:45.079 fun and interesting use case that you know, might be 374 00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.599 a convenient entry point for certain consumers. 375 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.319 Oh for sure. Yeah, it's you know, like I'm not 376 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:56.079 a big fan of new coins, and uh, although there 377 00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:58.759 are some legacy menue coins which I think are great 378 00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:00.880 because they have a brand that commune, like doge coin 379 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:04.440 and so forth. But you know, it's interesting to see 380 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:08.160 all these things happening on the blockchain and like, no 381 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:10.599 one could necessarily predicted NFTs and no one could have 382 00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:13.559 predicted mem coins, and it's just funny how these things 383 00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:16.480 pop up. But you know, humans are going to find 384 00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:18.079 the things they like, and they're going to like you said, 385 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:20.480 it's open sources, they're gonna build what they what they want. 386 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.920 In regardless to institutions that are using the XRP ledger, 387 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:28.519 tell us about the types. You may not be able 388 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:30.839 to give us names, but what are the types their banks, 389 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:32.319 hedge funds, what are they? 390 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:36.960 Yeah, so there's a variety ranging from you know banks, 391 00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:39.400 you know SoC gen for example, that are interested in 392 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:44.200 issuing stable coins on the XORP ledger, to asset managers 393 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:47.240 that are participating with some of the tokenization platforms. There's 394 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:51.359 been you know, Aberdeen has issued certain money market funds 395 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:55.519 through our checks, which is a tokenization provider on the 396 00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:58.680 XORP ledger. So I think there's there's a wide range 397 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:02.160 from banks to asset managers that are starting to discover 398 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:06.359 the value of of tokenization and of XRPL in particular. 399 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:10.880 Mm hm. And you know when they when they tokenize 400 00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:16.920 on the blockchain, you know, are they thinking about I guess, 401 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:19.359