Speaker 1: Morning The following podcasts gramping content and material intended or
Speaker 1: a mature audience listener discretion. Well, hello there, what's up.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked.
Speaker 1: And Grim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, welcome back, day after Valentine's Day? Right?
Speaker 1: How was How was everyone's Valentine's? Was it good? Was
Speaker 1: it fantastic? Was it awesome?
Speaker 2: Was it everything you hoped it would be?
Speaker 1: We ate? Delicious? Food? Oh yeah, it's our love language.
Speaker 2: Food, food, steak, seafood, mashed potatoes, garlic, bread, scallops, no vegetables.
Speaker 1: Potatoes are a vegetable.
Speaker 2: Oh and we had mushrooms actually, and then we drink
Speaker 2: a lot of wine. It was awesome.
Speaker 1: That's true. That is true. Yes, So what do we
Speaker 1: have to talk about today? We just passed her one
Speaker 1: year we were on TV. Oh my gosh, that was
Speaker 1: a whirlwind of a week.
Speaker 2: That was a wicked week.
Speaker 1: That was one wicked week.
Speaker 2: Holy, I feel like it actually just I don't know,
Speaker 2: it was almost just like a fantasy world.
Speaker 1: Is this a real I did that last episode.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna do it again, that same song, I think, so,
Speaker 2: oh boy, is this just fantasy. Yeah, let's just I
Speaker 2: was singing Ghostbusters before this, so let's keep you.
Speaker 1: You were just jiving. Do you get a call? No,
Speaker 1: your local authorities? Come on now, yeah, seriously, something strange
Speaker 1: in your neighborhood and you're gonna call Ghostbusters? No, all
Speaker 1: the police. This is a true crime podcast. You're about
Speaker 1: to get murdered.
Speaker 2: You call the police, Call the police in locky dolls.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're off the wall tonight. Sorry guys.
Speaker 2: See Well, honestly, okay, if it wasn't for me, we
Speaker 2: wouldn't even be having a podcast. Not because I did
Speaker 2: all the work. You did all the work, well done,
Speaker 2: but you were like basically ready to go to bed,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh we have to like.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, yeah, I almost forgot. It was just because
Speaker 1: we were like Valentine's Dinner, just chilling eating good food.
Speaker 1: I was like food coma and ready for bed. So oh, we.
Speaker 2: Watched terrific movie. I was really into it.
Speaker 1: Finally we watched Free Guy.
Speaker 2: Oh I loved it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was a good movie.
Speaker 2: Perfect mix of a movie for you and.
Speaker 1: Me, I think because you like the romantic, happy endings
Speaker 1: and for me it had Ryan Reynolds.
Speaker 2: If the movie doesn't have a happy ending, why the
Speaker 2: ship you watch it?
Speaker 1: And if it doesn't have Ryan Reynolds, why the shit
Speaker 1: are you gonna watch?
Speaker 2: It's so funny that I say that because every podcast
Speaker 2: we've done basically is not right.
Speaker 1: They're all shitty endings.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the role of True Crime, right, Yeah, is
Speaker 2: really messed.
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's move on tho. Let's drop that there
Speaker 1: are antics that we're doing here. We gotta go and
Speaker 1: talk about our patrons because we've got more patrons to
Speaker 1: thank this week. Are you doing it or am I?
Speaker 2: I don't even have a list.
Speaker 1: So I have a list and I can pass you
Speaker 1: the list. I'm doing it, aren't.
Speaker 2: I just gonna be like I can and then you
Speaker 2: go for it.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll do it again because you are too chicken. Okay.
Speaker 1: So our badass patrons that joined us last week over
Speaker 1: on Patreon, we've got Brooklyn for Rello, Toya Powell, Katie Bachin,
Speaker 1: I really hope I said that right, Jennifer Cooper, Tammy Johnson,
Speaker 1: Jennifer Abel abel Or I think it's able. Al yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty sure it's able. And Jordan Bowden. You guys are
Speaker 1: all bad ass. Thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Nice you have some wicked patrons over there.
Speaker 2: Wow, we're up to one hundred and seven of just
Speaker 2: wicked people like that is awesome, right, so awesome.
Speaker 1: So if you want to join us over on Patreon,
Speaker 1: you can find that linked down below and you can
Speaker 1: join us because why not?
Speaker 2: So yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1: Do we have some people we want to thank over
Speaker 1: on Instagram and of course our Patreon too, who want
Speaker 1: our giveaway?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah here, let me let me look here.
Speaker 1: Where are We're one who had.
Speaker 2: My phone because it makes weird noises in the mic,
Speaker 2: so I just like, leave it, leave it away. So yeah,
Speaker 2: yammy one, I think that's how you're gonna say. Say
Speaker 2: her name, Yamale's fret over on Instagram Instagram she went
Speaker 2: fifty dollars towards merch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she.
Speaker 2: Chose a hoodie. I s far. I'm pretty sure I
Speaker 2: gotta still get that.
Speaker 1: Do you know what hoodie it was that she chose.
Speaker 1: I'm curious.
Speaker 2: I think it was the wick Ingram banner hoodie.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, pretty sure, I'm sure. Over on Patreon we
Speaker 1: got Kevin Kyle who there. So thank you guys for
Speaker 1: entering and you won yourself some dope ass merch.
Speaker 2: Well, are we not going to talk about Kyle wanted?
Speaker 1: What did Kyle want to tell us right now?
Speaker 2: So he wanted a death Head moth long sleeve tea.
Speaker 1: Oh I've been wanting a death headshirt. I know I
Speaker 1: should get some.
Speaker 2: Super cool good choice is well done.
Speaker 1: Because if we haven't said it before, we actually have
Speaker 1: to purchase our own merch because it's through Red Bubble.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like we just tell them to print
Speaker 1: on demand and it's like if we want some, we
Speaker 1: actually have to purchase it too.
Speaker 2: Which is kind of just like a sweet deal because
Speaker 2: like we live in a tiny hill and I don't
Speaker 2: know how do we go about doing that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, storing all this stock would not be a thing.
Speaker 2: For us, So yeah it might have been because that's originally, honestly,
Speaker 2: how I thought we were going to do it, and
Speaker 2: that would have just been a disaster.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's no way fit in this house. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So are you ready to move on to this case?
Speaker 2: I am redd at a party.
Speaker 1: To party Party to party PRT Why because I said, so,
Speaker 1: how does that go again? Oh? No, no, Ali? What
Speaker 1: that is way off?
Speaker 2: Sorry? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I remember pr P A R T. Why because I
Speaker 1: gotta it's the mask. Jim Carrey.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, yeah, I was on our level because I
Speaker 2: got it. There we go, Okay, are we taking a
Speaker 2: little break kind of because last week was like heavy
Speaker 2: and a lot of people were just like, wow, wow.
Speaker 1: This one is a lot different than any case we
Speaker 1: have covered so far. Let me put it that way. Okay,
Speaker 1: it is a murder, Okay, it is a mystery. Okay,
Speaker 1: but the amount of information that is known about this
Speaker 1: case is basically zero. You know, when you go into
Speaker 1: an exam and it's like or a test or something
Speaker 1: like that, and they're like, you get like one flash card.
Speaker 1: You can write a one side the information to go
Speaker 1: on the exam with you or something. Right, Yeah, picture
Speaker 1: writing on that little index card, your normal writing size.
Speaker 1: That's about the information that is known on this case.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's not how I did my index cards.
Speaker 1: I know everyone's writing like super small and shit. But
Speaker 1: this like, there's hardly anything. So there's there's a lot
Speaker 1: of debate about this. There's there's not much concrete evidence.
Speaker 1: So okay, now this is a crazy case though, because
Speaker 1: there's so much unknown and it is one of Canada's
Speaker 1: most notorious unsolved cases.
Speaker 2: Oh it's a Canadian case.
Speaker 1: It is. So to all our Canadian friends out there,
Speaker 1: here's a little bit of our history. And to all
Speaker 1: those outside of Canada, you about to get learned on
Speaker 1: a history as well, because I didn't know this, So
Speaker 1: we're all getting learned on our history today.
Speaker 2: I'm curious.
Speaker 1: I know you probably don't. That's what I'm rolling the
Speaker 1: dice on. I have you ever heard of the Red
Speaker 1: Path Mansion murders?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Yeah, see, there we go.
Speaker 2: I was hoping that I could say yes, but I can't.
Speaker 1: Well, let's start you off and let's paint a bit
Speaker 1: of a picture here. The red Paths had it all.
Speaker 1: They're one of the richest families in Canada, heirs to
Speaker 1: an impressive sugar fortune. Now, James Redpath was born in
Speaker 1: seventeen ninety six to a working class what.
Speaker 2: Sorry, can I interrupt red Path? Isn't that like there's
Speaker 2: still a sugar name?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Holy shit, Okay, that's these people.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, sorry. I just was like, you're like ready
Speaker 2: to pause because you think I need to break But
Speaker 2: I'm like, whoa, I've brought in Red Plot Sugar.
Speaker 1: You've what Red Paths Sugar I bought? Yeah, yeah, you have.
Speaker 1: I'm still a company.
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm excited. Sorry, sorry, I I'll stop.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I'm glad I got you. I'm glad you
Speaker 1: got that to your system.
Speaker 2: It's out of my system. Sure. I was just like,
Speaker 2: I recognize that, nick yase it's.
Speaker 1: A legit sugar company. So James sorry. John James Redpath
Speaker 1: was born nineteen seventy six to a working class farm
Speaker 1: workers in Scotland. Growing up, he would work manual labor
Speaker 1: jobs and he got a wealth of experience as a stonemason.
Speaker 1: Now by the time John was twenty, he ended up
Speaker 1: leaving Scotland in eighteen sixteen with very limited funds to
Speaker 1: go board a passage on a ship. Boarding that ship,
Speaker 1: he was now broke and nearly penniless, but he embarked
Speaker 1: on a journey to his new life in Canada. He
Speaker 1: got off in Quebec City and then proceeded to walk
Speaker 1: approximately I didn't write it down, but I think it
Speaker 1: was around two hundred klometers two and fifty klmeters something
Speaker 1: like that off the top of my head. But anyways,
Speaker 1: he walked barefoot from Quebec City to Montreal, Quebec.
Speaker 2: Really, yes, like he lost his shoes on the way there.
Speaker 1: I don't think he had shoes.
Speaker 2: Wow, Holy Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: I remember looking up the distance between the two, but
Speaker 1: apparently I didn't type it in.
Speaker 2: This is going to be quite the story.
Speaker 1: Hey, well, it definitely is. There's a rich history here.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of history in this case if you
Speaker 1: want to look into the red Path family. I didn't
Speaker 1: dive too deep in it because this isn't a history
Speaker 1: of their family case. It's more of like the murder
Speaker 1: side of it. But we get a little bit of
Speaker 1: the history here that I'll talk about briefly. So once
Speaker 1: he was there, he used his skills he learned back
Speaker 1: in Scotland to land him self employment in the construction industry,
Speaker 1: where he would work as a stonemason. Within a few years,
Speaker 1: John was running his own sizeable construction business. Now he
Speaker 1: was involved in major projects such as the construction of
Speaker 1: the Lachin Channel. Now, this was a major project where
Speaker 1: John found immense success where many other contractors before him
Speaker 1: found only failure. So he was the one who was
Speaker 1: actually able to get this project complete where no one.
Speaker 2: Else was able to so he's good at what he did.
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely, and this led to more projects and a
Speaker 1: booming business for them. Oh right on, Yeah, Now, in
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty four, John would go on to open another
Speaker 1: business called the Red Path Sugar Company, which is still
Speaker 1: in business today, like you mentioned, and is a huge
Speaker 1: player in the sugar manufacturing and distributing a distributing world.
Speaker 2: So that's so interesting and went from that to that,
Speaker 2: I know, it's quite the leap. Like I really wonder
Speaker 2: how that transitioned.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not too sure. Like I said, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of history. If you want to go down
Speaker 1: that tunnel, it's there. I just didn't quite bother because
Speaker 1: it's not something that we're talking about.
Speaker 2: I'm also curious if that sugar sold. I'm sure it is,
Speaker 2: but probably elsewhere in the world.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure it's around the world for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's it's definitely like one of the big heavy
Speaker 1: hitters in Canada. I know that.
Speaker 2: I was just going to go and check actually to
Speaker 2: see if we hurt covered. But then we pour our
Speaker 2: sugar into a container, so that's not helpful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, if the sugar bags, no matter what brand
Speaker 1: you get, they always leak, they do. They it spills out,
Speaker 1: it could catch on something and gets a little rip,
Speaker 1: and you got sugar everywhere.
Speaker 2: So I also, I actually feel like if sugar was
Speaker 2: in like a milk container like that would be amazing
Speaker 2: and you wouldn't have to put it in another container.
Speaker 1: You're fucking oh but wait, what if you're like, what
Speaker 1: if you need a cup of sugar, then you have
Speaker 1: to like pour it in the cup, And what if
Speaker 1: you go too much and you got to put it
Speaker 1: back in this like jug container.
Speaker 2: It wouldn't pour too much, though, I don't think it'd
Speaker 2: be hard.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think just like a tote with
Speaker 1: like a lid, it's a tote totsgoats, yoats or what
Speaker 1: about just like a cardboard box with like a plastic liner.
Speaker 1: May no, not plastic line, but a paper liner.
Speaker 2: I like the milk jug.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting on that milk carton.
Speaker 2: Milk carton, I mean, yeah, okay, I'm sitting on that
Speaker 2: like a yeah.
Speaker 1: There we go. Well that aside. We're going to now
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about John's personal life. Okay, Together,
Speaker 1: John and his wife Ada had five children, Amy Peter
Speaker 1: John Reginald dope fucking name for the record, Harold and
Speaker 1: Jocelyn Clifford. By all reports, the Redpath family were a
Speaker 1: close family, but generally kept to themselves on a day
Speaker 1: to day basis. They did not like publicity or seek
Speaker 1: to be like the talk of the town per se.
Speaker 1: Personal issues, feelings and moods were never really addressed, and
Speaker 1: their family problems were never really a topic of conversation
Speaker 1: behind closed doors, though Amy and her brother were open
Speaker 1: and warm within the family. Now, Aida had been quite
Speaker 1: sick for many years. So being that Amy was the
Speaker 1: oldest of the children and the only daughter, she assumed
Speaker 1: care of the household, being a little different terms though
Speaker 1: than what were used to She was responsible for hiring things,
Speaker 1: hiring maids, and providing things like financial advice to her
Speaker 1: younger brothers who are now getting into the business ventures themselves.
Speaker 2: The oldest sister.
Speaker 1: Yes, wow, so taking care of the family was a
Speaker 1: little bit different to them. It was like hiring the maids.
Speaker 1: It's not like she's getting her brothers and sisters up
Speaker 1: early in the morning at cooking breakfast. They had maids
Speaker 1: and servers, and yeah, they had staff to take care
Speaker 1: of them. But she was taking care of the family
Speaker 1: and other terms. Right, Okay. Now, while all five of
Speaker 1: the red Path children helped out their mother, Ada, Peter, Reggie,
Speaker 1: and Harold were generally too busy to help, and their
Speaker 1: mother's assistants began to fall heavily on Amy and Clifford,
Speaker 1: who had a close relationship with their mother. Now, though
Speaker 1: this is not certain exactly what sort of illness Ada
Speaker 1: was stricken with, as there was no official diagnosis, it
Speaker 1: is clear that it was severe. There's a letter from
Speaker 1: John Redpath, who wrote to his children from New York
Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty and explained that Aida needed to spend
Speaker 1: a day recovering from a carriage ride around the park.
Speaker 1: So she was actually bad enough where just a carriage
Speaker 1: ride was something she needed to recover from.
Speaker 2: That's really sad, So sad it is she dies soon?
Speaker 2: What's she dies soon? Here?
Speaker 1: Well, let's get into that, shall we.
Speaker 2: And it was so long ago too, it might not
Speaker 2: even really known exactly what it was.
Speaker 1: Oh, exactly right. There are some theories though, that she
Speaker 1: may have been suffering from. Some people think rheumatoid arthritis
Speaker 1: and others and some others think autoimmune disease, which are
Speaker 1: like reference to some symptoms that she had with her
Speaker 1: poor eyesight, pain, neurologia, that sort of stuff, but it's
Speaker 1: still not known what it was. But again there's no documentation,
Speaker 1: there's no proof. Pretty much everything surrounding this case is hearsay.
Speaker 2: Interesting, Hey, why is that the.
Speaker 1: Family kept to themselves, said that they did not like publicity,
Speaker 1: they did not like their aim out there in the limelight.
Speaker 1: They just behind closed.
Speaker 2: Doors, which honestly, there's nothing wrong with really.
Speaker 1: Well, there's definitely nothing wrong with that, but it definitely
Speaker 1: gets suspicious here a little later on when certain things occur.
Speaker 2: Okay, I guess, yeah, sometimes when you're quiet you might
Speaker 2: have something to hide.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: I never thought of that angle, very very true.
Speaker 1: So, being that the Redpath family was one of, if
Speaker 1: not the wealthiest family in Canada at the time, this
Speaker 1: meant that they could afford some serious luxuries. And with luxuries,
Speaker 1: and sorry, with wealth and luxuries comes a mansion. Generally,
Speaker 1: the red Path Mansion was one of the grandest homes
Speaker 1: in Montreal's Golden Square Mile. Now, this Golden Square Mile
Speaker 1: is a nostalgic name given to an urban neighborhood which
Speaker 1: was developed between I think it was approximately eighteen fifty
Speaker 1: and around nineteen thirty, and it took it sat at
Speaker 1: the foot of Mount Royal in the west central section
Speaker 1: of downtown Montreal, Quebec. Awesome, glorious place.
Speaker 2: Did he google it?
Speaker 1: I did? Actually, it is a place where homes of
Speaker 1: like many illustrious mansions sat and it was a perfect
Speaker 1: place to call home for the Red.
Speaker 2: Paths awesome, So I'm gonna have to google it.
Speaker 1: I want to see do it now. Unfortunately, John would
Speaker 1: pass away before the family mansion was built. He died
Speaker 1: on June fourth, eighteen eighty four. His cause of death
Speaker 1: was listed as paralysis, and he was buried in the
Speaker 1: Redpath family plot and the Mount Royal Cemetery. However, there
Speaker 1: are some mixed reports to the day he died. Some reports,
Speaker 1: actually it was far later it was, or sorry, far earlier,
Speaker 1: it was eighteen sixty nine. Other reports say eighteen seventy.
Speaker 1: It's a variety of dates and years, so I can't
Speaker 1: find a concrete one on that. I found several websites,
Speaker 1: very reputable websites, having mixed years.
Speaker 2: So wow, that's so interesting. I even to have a
Speaker 2: death date, that's not right, huh.
Speaker 1: It's like I say, nothing is for sure in this case. Wow,
Speaker 1: it's very very odd and it was very weird to
Speaker 1: research when I can't come up with any facts or very.
Speaker 2: Little facts of what.
Speaker 1: Sorry it was. The cause of death was listed as paralysis,
Speaker 1: but again, I'm not too sure if I can even
Speaker 1: trust that. If I can't, if if the date I'm
Speaker 1: I'm unsure of, I guarantee you that's going to be
Speaker 1: unsure as well. Yeah, So so take that with a
Speaker 1: grain of salt. So it's hard to say which is true,
Speaker 1: like for any of these. But either way, the family
Speaker 1: was forced to carry on without John, that we do
Speaker 1: know now. The new home was built in eighteen eighty
Speaker 1: six at one zero six' Five Sherbrook, street and the
Speaker 1: family lived there for many years as part of the
Speaker 1: city's high. Society and here in their grand, mansion the
Speaker 1: only thing that was extraordinary about the family was their great.
Speaker 1: Wealth other than, that they're just a regular, family you,
Speaker 1: know business going on with their, lives that sort of.
Speaker 1: Thing but all of that was about to, change because
Speaker 1: eventually the grand mansion would turn into the location, of
Speaker 1: LIKE i, said one Of canada's most notorious unsolved. Murders,
Speaker 1: OKAY i.
Speaker 2: Was waiting for. THIS i was, like who exactly is
Speaker 2: getting murdered? Here And i'm SURPRISED i haven't heard of.
Speaker 1: This but, okay well buccalo seatbelts because you're about to
Speaker 1: find out who gets.
Speaker 2: Murdered, well, yeah this is because this is a big
Speaker 2: NAME i feel like In. Canada So i'm just shocked
Speaker 2: here That i'm knowing it is.
Speaker 1: A very big name In. Canada and it's LIKE i,
Speaker 1: said it's one of the most notorious cases out there For.
Speaker 1: Canadians and it's surprising it's not more in the lime
Speaker 1: light and.
Speaker 2: Mainstream or that there isn't more. Known, yeah very.
Speaker 1: Odd you'll understand why there's not much. Known you'll get
Speaker 1: a little more details on how it was capt, hush,
Speaker 1: Hush i'm.
Speaker 2: Almost scared to.
Speaker 1: Know, Okay, well there's nothing really scary about. It it's
Speaker 1: just like what the, Fuck, like are you? Serious that's
Speaker 1: going to be your, response like are you kidding? Me,
Speaker 1: Okay so, Anyways, so on the summer night Of june,
Speaker 1: thirteenth nineteen oh, one at approximately six, Pm john And
Speaker 1: ada's eldest, Son, peter who was thirty one at the,
Speaker 1: time heard gunshots that rang through the house coming from.
Speaker 1: Upstairs he ran upstairs to see what was going on
Speaker 1: and found the noise coming from the locked doors of
Speaker 1: his mother's. Bedroom he ran the door over and over
Speaker 1: to break it down and gain, entry and when he
Speaker 1: gained that, access he found a grizzly. Scene his younger,
Speaker 1: brother youngest BROTHER i should, Say clifford of twenty, five
Speaker 1: who had just arrived home minutes, before and their Mother
Speaker 1: ada lying on the floor into pools of, blood blood
Speaker 1: and a gun on the floor beside. Them.
Speaker 2: Uh, oh just the two of them in, there, Though.
Speaker 1: Just the two of them in.
Speaker 2: There, Okay so that's not a good, scene definitely.
Speaker 1: Not now that, right there is the majority of facts
Speaker 1: that we know of this. Case what the? Shit there's
Speaker 1: a bit, more but that is the majority of the.
Speaker 2: Facts Because i'm like Thinking clifford did, it but it's
Speaker 2: just the two of them that got. Murdered, Though, hey
Speaker 2: it's not the whole fam, Correct, okay not that that's
Speaker 2: not horrific and. Terrible, sorry but.
Speaker 1: Well i'm going to carry on a little bit here
Speaker 1: before we get into more some, theories and we'll discuss
Speaker 1: it a little bit. Here, Okay So upon seeing, this
Speaker 1: any person's reaction would be to call authorities and identify
Speaker 1: or and, identify like what, Happened you get the scene locked.
Speaker 1: Down but that's definitely not what happened next, Here no
Speaker 1: police or authorities were called to the, scene only a
Speaker 1: corner and from there the corner called an, inquest and
Speaker 1: the next, day on the, fourteenth a corner's inquest was
Speaker 1: put into. Place now corner's inquest in quest for anyone who's.
Speaker 1: Curious it's an inquiry into the circumstances surrounding it. Death
Speaker 1: the purpose of the inquest is to find out who
Speaker 1: the deceased person was and how and when and where they.
Speaker 1: Died and this is all to prove details necessary for
Speaker 1: their death. Registry, okay so this essentially starts like a
Speaker 1: mini investigation when an inquest is put into, place not
Speaker 1: really an investigation on what, happened but an investigation on.
Speaker 2: Who oh they are so, sorry totally get. IT i
Speaker 2: was just being quiet Because i'm thinking about why the
Speaker 2: police weren't, Called so my theory might have changed my.
Speaker 1: Head, now, yeah well that's a big. Thing what the
Speaker 1: fuck why weren't they?
Speaker 2: Called, well if you're running into a, scene like. That
Speaker 2: there's no way that you wouldn't be freaking out calling
Speaker 2: nine one one right, Like there's just no. Way so.
Speaker 1: Hold that.
Speaker 2: Thought i'm holding.
Speaker 1: It SO a statement was taken directly From peter during the,
Speaker 1: inquest AND i have a piece of that statement. Here
Speaker 1: so he, SAID i saw my, brother the, deceased arriving
Speaker 1: home at around six. O'clock he seemed ill and was.
Speaker 1: Tired he went up to the room of my. MOTHER
Speaker 1: a few seconds, LATER i heard a gunshot from a,
Speaker 1: firearm followed by two. OTHERS i ran up and broke
Speaker 1: down the. DOOR i saw my mother lying on the
Speaker 1: floor and several free from. Her my brother also lying
Speaker 1: in a pool of, blood a revolver a foot away from,
Speaker 1: him near his. Hand. Interesting, Interesting, Interesting now even stranger
Speaker 1: than all, this considering the mysterious circumstances surrounding the two.
Speaker 1: Death the inquest was opened and closed within forty eight
Speaker 1: hours of the, shooting and both of their bodies were
Speaker 1: buried within that forty eight hours as. Well, wow so
Speaker 1: forty eight hours after the trigger was, pulled the inquest is.
Speaker 1: Closed the case is closed because literally no investigation took,
Speaker 1: place and they're buried in the. Cemetery.
Speaker 2: Money money can do some things for, you can.
Speaker 1: It definitely, can definitely. Can. Interesting, so, now the Red
Speaker 1: paths never discussed the tragic, events either among themselves or.
Speaker 1: Publicly so what happened To ada And Clifford? Redpath who murdered?
Speaker 1: Them was it an? Accident? Murder? Suicide and why wouldn't
Speaker 1: their families want a full? Investigation who? Knows all un answered?
Speaker 2: Questions because, sorry there would still be three of? Them
Speaker 2: three of the children? Alive? Correct?
Speaker 1: Four?
Speaker 2: Four? Oh they had five? Children five, children, yes, okay
Speaker 2: so both parents have been deceased in one and the youngest.
Speaker 1: Child, yeah so that leaves four, left, Okay and the
Speaker 1: only person at home at the time was the oldest,
Speaker 1: sibling oldest, SON i should, say which Is? Peter?
Speaker 2: Really? OKAY i didn't realize that was the only one.
Speaker 1: Home, Well i'm pretty sure he's the only one. Home.
Speaker 1: Huh officially, speaking, though we don't have an answer that
Speaker 1: came from the, inquest the, RECORDS i, mean we do
Speaker 1: have we do officially have an, ANSWER i should. Say
Speaker 1: the record states That clifford had an epileptic seizure while
Speaker 1: holding the revolver and shot his mother in a quote
Speaker 1: unquote temp while temporary temporarily, insane so having an epileptic,
Speaker 1: seizure he shot his mother while temporarily. Insane, okay, then
Speaker 1: once regaining control of, himself stricken by grief on what
Speaker 1: he had, done turned the revolver towards. Himself that is
Speaker 1: the official in quest results on what.
Speaker 2: Happened, really that's what they. Determined, yep.
Speaker 1: HUH a biggie with this case is that since there
Speaker 1: was never a real investigation that had taken, place there's
Speaker 1: no concrete records of what, happened only newspaper. Accounts LIKE i,
Speaker 1: said it's it's there's no proof of. Anything and even
Speaker 1: the newspaper accounts that we are referring to they all
Speaker 1: contradict themselves, basically so everything is hearsay after.
Speaker 2: This it's just like no one wanted to step on
Speaker 2: their toes or do anything to like what is the,
Speaker 2: saying stir the, Mud, no.
Speaker 1: Stir the, mud stir the?
Speaker 2: Mud, Wow like no one wanted to EVEN i don't,
Speaker 2: know touch, This hey.
Speaker 1: WELL i don't Think, YEAH i, mean how do you
Speaker 1: even especially if you are going to go and, Investigate,
Speaker 1: okay let's investigate. This where the Bodies, oh they're. Buried
Speaker 1: where's the crime? Scene, oh it's cleaned.
Speaker 2: Up but even prior to, though no one wanted anything
Speaker 2: to do with. It, yeah it's JUST i think it's
Speaker 2: because the family was maybe so powerful and, wealthy wanted
Speaker 2: anything to do with.
Speaker 1: This money. Talks money buys pretty much, anything which is
Speaker 1: frightening to think. ABOUT i, mean look at human. Trafficking
Speaker 1: money can literally buy a human. Life i'm sure it
Speaker 1: can buy.
Speaker 2: Silence and because you said they were one of the
Speaker 2: most wealthiest families In, canada, really, right.
Speaker 1: If not the, Wealthiest, yes there you. Go so who's to, say.
Speaker 2: And the oldest would have had act probably the most
Speaker 2: access to that. Too potentially the.
Speaker 1: Oldest would be their, daughter which was what's her? Name?
Speaker 2: Okay SO i was thinking the one that was home.
Speaker 1: That would Be. Peter, Okay so the oldest, son but
Speaker 1: the only one older than him was their only Daughter, amy, Right.
Speaker 1: Okay So, peter though actually initially claimed that the night
Speaker 1: of the shooting he heard two, shots but then later
Speaker 1: went on to change his story to say three.
Speaker 2: Shots, really and you would, REMEMBER i feel.
Speaker 1: WELL a lot of stuff is very inconsistent with this.
Speaker 1: Case even when talking to. Witnesses he also claimed that
Speaker 1: one revolver was found of the, scene but a doctor
Speaker 1: testified later that there were actually, two which suggests an
Speaker 1: accomplice or potentially even an. Intruder.
Speaker 2: Huh ALL i want to keep saying is.
Speaker 1: Interesting so this is literally like the game what's that like,
Speaker 1: clue like who did it in the murder? Mystery, well,
Speaker 1: no that that's literally just a type of game that's
Speaker 1: like saying video, GAME i don't, know clue the board
Speaker 1: game where it's like who did it in the like
Speaker 1: who did the? Murder like Colonel Colonel mustard did? It
Speaker 1: or killed so and so in the library with the lead.
Speaker 2: Pipe it's it's been so long SINCE i played that.
Speaker 1: GAME i think it's like it's like that you just
Speaker 1: there's so much to put together and you're just randomly
Speaker 1: saying this half the time because you don't know unless
Speaker 1: you're really good at the. GAME i never was. Anyways
Speaker 1: but one of the doctors actually who arrived at the
Speaker 1: scene claimed That clifford had foam in his, mouth which could,
Speaker 1: potentially you, know coincide with the.
Speaker 2: Seizure, okay OR i was going to, say couldn't that
Speaker 2: be like strangling? Too, WELL i guess you'd see it
Speaker 2: on the neck, Though BUT i.
Speaker 1: Mean there was no real investigation for, that so foam
Speaker 1: with mouth would be. Obvious maybe not redness at the
Speaker 1: neck or something might not be who. Knows but the
Speaker 1: family physician testified That clifford may have shot his, mother you,
Speaker 1: know LIKE i. Said but the thing, is there's no
Speaker 1: medical history or family records suggesting That clifford ever suffered from.
Speaker 1: Epilepsy seizures, was as far as records, go not a
Speaker 1: thing for. Him so if it was, seizures it's not, known.
Speaker 2: And especially to have one to that degree but then
Speaker 2: have had nothing prior.
Speaker 1: To you, know oh, Yeah AND i mean like a
Speaker 1: seizure to the degree of insanity.
Speaker 2: Where you're shooting your.
Speaker 1: Mind that's. CRAZY i could, See, okay maybe you're holding
Speaker 1: the gun and if you have a seizure and your
Speaker 1: muscles tense up or something and you pull the trigger
Speaker 1: and you're like kind of seizing and, convulsing and you
Speaker 1: accidentally pull the trigger and once your muscles start, relaxing
Speaker 1: then you're stricken or. Whatever but a seizure to the
Speaker 1: point of, Insanity i've never heard of that.
Speaker 2: Before, well and why was he holding a gun, too, right,
Speaker 2: right like, yeah.
Speaker 1: So especially moments after getting, home like his brother. Suggested,
Speaker 1: now some theorized that it could have been quote unquote
Speaker 1: mercy killing As ada was bedridden with her illness and
Speaker 1: suffered with them for a long, time so putting her
Speaker 1: out of her misery was a last resort and an
Speaker 1: attempt to help her or free. Her, now as For,
Speaker 1: clifford maybe he couldn't live with the fact that he
Speaker 1: shot his, mom no matter the intention or the will
Speaker 1: goodwill behind. It maybe he just couldn't stand seeing his
Speaker 1: mom like, that thought Like i'm putting her out of her,
Speaker 1: misery and then afterwards he couldn't regretted it LIKE i
Speaker 1: couldn't live with, it and pulled entering the gun on.
Speaker 2: Himself which does make sense for the coming home right,
Speaker 2: away because, say if she had asked for, that or
Speaker 2: was the plan or, whatever he maybe you just come
Speaker 2: home and do it really quick or. Whatever, Right, maybe
Speaker 2: so that part kind of makes sense with the just
Speaker 2: getting home and doing. It but but.
Speaker 1: Then why would she ask the youngest son to do?
Speaker 1: It wouldn't you ask the oldest to do that to
Speaker 1: bear that?
Speaker 2: Responsibility, well not, necessarily we don't know their personalities and
Speaker 2: stuff right, now we don't she thought that it would
Speaker 2: affect him less or.
Speaker 1: Something, yeah but we do know that the mother had
Speaker 1: a good relationship With, clifford, Right clifford was one of
Speaker 1: the ones who was closest.
Speaker 2: With her and the. Daughter, yes.
Speaker 1: Huh now another theory talks about something a little more, terrifying,
Speaker 1: though that loved one trying to end their mother's pain,
Speaker 1: is you, know not quite as bad as. This peter
Speaker 1: later claimed that his Brother clifford was a homosexual and
Speaker 1: that he may have intended to tell his mother that
Speaker 1: night and it could potentially have been a coming out gone. Wrong,
Speaker 1: now think of, it think of it this, way a
Speaker 1: high class family in like late eighteen hundreds having a gay.
Speaker 1: Son that would not be something that a wealthy family
Speaker 1: would stand. For i'm SURE i can imagine the only
Speaker 1: thing that they would. Like think towards that that it's
Speaker 1: like soiling their name and that an argument could ensue
Speaker 1: and you, know name, calling hatred being thrown back and,
Speaker 1: forth potentially even revenge being thrown into the.
Speaker 2: Mix, well were they a religious family, TOO i, wonder,
Speaker 2: right because then that would make it even.
Speaker 1: Worse i'm not too certain if they were, religious BUT
Speaker 1: i do know that religion was a lot more prominent
Speaker 1: in that, time especially well especially considering today's. Age but,
Speaker 1: yeah ALL i know is that this is a fucking
Speaker 1: mind twisting brain. Fucker if that's a, SENTENCE i don't,
Speaker 1: know but that's what it.
Speaker 2: IS i don't THINK i don't believe that.
Speaker 1: Theory, No, okay, well BEFORE i go, on what's your?
Speaker 2: THEORY i think that what the frick's his? Name the oldest, Son, Peter.
Speaker 2: PETER i Think peter did. IT i Think peter's an.
Speaker 1: ASSHOLE i Think peter did it. Too i've got a
Speaker 1: Theory i'm going to cover here at the. End i've
Speaker 1: got one more Theory i'm going to talk about first
Speaker 1: before we go.
Speaker 2: There BUT i have to finish off That peter. THEORY
Speaker 2: i think it's because he's an asshole and maybe had
Speaker 2: some sort of jealousy or something towards the relationship That
Speaker 2: clifford had with his. Mother, potentially it's kind of my.
Speaker 1: Thought, Okay So i'll cover this one first and we'll
Speaker 1: touch on. That family rumors also suggested That clifford had
Speaker 1: an affair with one of the family's maids. Now even
Speaker 1: though affairs at this time were rather normal for the,
Speaker 1: ERA i should say an affair could have done much
Speaker 1: in the same to the family name as a potential
Speaker 1: gay son perhaps could. Do And ada was going to
Speaker 1: let her son drag the family name through the mud
Speaker 1: in this scenario as, well sparking a, similar similar argument
Speaker 1: and similar. Outcome so there's that. THEORY i still don't.
Speaker 2: Even see how that would be the outcome of the
Speaker 2: Mat the mom was outrage like, what so she Kills,
Speaker 2: clifford and then what kills?
Speaker 1: Herself like, no they, argued And clifford shoots her.
Speaker 2: Oh and then shoots.
Speaker 1: Himself, yes but that one still doesn't make sense to,
Speaker 1: me especially, because LIKE i just, said affairs are not
Speaker 1: an uncommon thing at this. Time would that really be an,
Speaker 1: issue especially for a family with, money being, like, oh
Speaker 1: let's just pay her, off.
Speaker 2: Pay out the maid or something, else.
Speaker 1: Or even still your word against. Ours it was very frequent,
Speaker 1: that you, know higher powered families would just toss loved,
Speaker 1: ones not loved, ones but toss affairs aside because of
Speaker 1: power being, involved being like you're nothing compared to.
Speaker 2: Us Poor. CLIFFORD i feel like his name just being
Speaker 2: dragged to the mud.
Speaker 1: Here, WELL i mean that's very good potential of.
Speaker 2: THAT i guess for some, REASON i feel LIKE i like,
Speaker 2: him you Like. CLIFFORD i have absolutely no information about,
Speaker 2: him BUT i just get the sense THAT i like
Speaker 2: him for some weird.
Speaker 1: Reason, well maybe he's a good.
Speaker 2: Guy i'm being biased.
Speaker 1: Here the problem is we don't. Know he might have
Speaker 1: been a good. Guy he might have been the.
Speaker 2: Protagonist he could have been a super, asshole.
Speaker 1: He could be the. Antagonist we don't. Know there's no.
Speaker 1: Result we're never going to know the result of. This
Speaker 1: that's the. Problem there's no, information there will never be.
Speaker 1: Information it's just that's.
Speaker 2: IT i can't believe that they're that high up there
Speaker 2: of status and that no one knows, anything and just mind,
Speaker 2: blowing mind.
Speaker 1: Blowing, WELL i do agree with, you, THOUGH i do
Speaker 1: Think peter was. Responsible so this is WHAT i. Think
Speaker 1: i've done a little bit of digging around theories surrounding
Speaker 1: him and motives and because of families, secrecy alongside the
Speaker 1: fact that they were essentially no investigations in the death or.
Speaker 1: Anything but everything around that is like, literally LIKE i,
Speaker 1: said pure speculation with no. Evidence so my theory my personal,
Speaker 1: theory WHAT i think is That peter was upset with
Speaker 1: his brother and mother for. Something WHAT i, mean my
Speaker 1: guess is. Money money does crazy things to, people and
Speaker 1: the family business is where they all held their. Pride,
Speaker 1: now Perhaps, clifford being the youngest sibling and closest with the,
Speaker 1: mother was getting special attention From. Aida she could have
Speaker 1: been giving him more, money or leaving him in charge
Speaker 1: of the business or, ventures or potentially even. WILLS i don't,
Speaker 1: know but whatever it, IS i Think peter thought it
Speaker 1: was irresponsible and he thought, him being the oldest, son
Speaker 1: should be the one should be getting, this whether it
Speaker 1: be in the, will being more in charge of, business
Speaker 1: or maybe it's even the attention From. Aida either, WAY
Speaker 1: i Think peter wanted control of The Red paths, estate
Speaker 1: or at least more of. It he didn't like what
Speaker 1: his mother was, doing and he didn't like the attention
Speaker 1: his baby brother was. Getting Perhaps clifford was, gay maybe who,
Speaker 1: Knows maybe that was enough of a reason for him
Speaker 1: to kill his own brother in cold. Blood but In peter's,
Speaker 1: eyes these two were holding him and his family business,
Speaker 1: back and so they had to. Go so he took
Speaker 1: matters into his own hands and ensured that they were
Speaker 1: out of the. Picture that's WHAT i. Think. HMM i hate.
Speaker 2: THAT i literally just hate all of that because who
Speaker 2: cares if you're the oldest? Sibling in my, opinion like who?
Speaker 2: Cares you have to like earn, That oh, YEAH i
Speaker 2: one hundred percent have to earn if you're taking care
Speaker 2: of the business or and just being oldest does not
Speaker 2: always make you like the smartest or anything like like
Speaker 2: who cares that you're the? Oldest?
Speaker 1: Yeah, NO i completely agree with, you like, one but
Speaker 1: if you look at like the old school way of.
Speaker 2: Thinking the old school, way, yeah.
Speaker 1: The oldest, son you, know look at that if you're
Speaker 1: the oldest son in, Royalty, yeah you're like you're the
Speaker 1: next in line to be king your, prience. Right. Yeah
Speaker 1: it's just it's how it was so for a family
Speaker 1: of such high status like, that the oldest son is
Speaker 1: going to do what take over the. Business he's next in.
Speaker 1: Line SO i Think peter had that mentality Of i'm
Speaker 1: next in. Line why Is clifford getting the? Attention why
Speaker 1: Is mom giving him the? Attention it should be?
Speaker 2: Me and meanwhile they're probably just bonding or he's probably
Speaker 2: taking care of her some. Shit so it's just, like
Speaker 2: for love Of, GOD i don't love this story at,
Speaker 2: all AND i really wish there was more information.
Speaker 1: There LIKE i, said we're strapped for. Information this is.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: Wow so what do you, Think, like do you agree
Speaker 1: with my thoughts On peter?
Speaker 2: THERE i, do, Yes LIKE i THINK i definitely think
Speaker 2: that it was Not. CLIFFORD i JUST i don't know
Speaker 2: for some, reason it's just not settling with. Me AND
Speaker 2: i do think it was, him AND i think there
Speaker 2: was definitely like some jealousy going on, there and especially
Speaker 2: if he made it so that he was like the
Speaker 2: only one home kind of thing. Too write like he
Speaker 2: was probably thinking this. Through he's being very strategic with,
Speaker 2: it and then HE i don't, know he must have
Speaker 2: used money or his power or something to do. More
Speaker 2: because the fact that this was not looked investigated is
Speaker 2: just nuts, fucked it's.
Speaker 1: Nuts it's absolutely. Insane so whatever the, case, though the
Speaker 1: truth and what really happened will probably it won't ever be.
Speaker 1: Known the story of what happened was quite literally buried
Speaker 1: With clifford And ada within forty eight. Hours the mansion
Speaker 1: itself actually sat empty since nineteen eighty, six and was
Speaker 1: hardly standing on its own even in more recent, years
Speaker 1: until it was actually demolished in nineteen Or march nineteenth
Speaker 1: of twenty. Fourteen what the. Heck, yeah the property owner
Speaker 1: just kind of let it wrought.
Speaker 2: Away i'm so surprised by. That, yeah that they could
Speaker 2: have made that.
Speaker 1: Into there were some people trying to save the, building
Speaker 1: but it was just it was not taken care. Of
Speaker 1: it was, dilapidated it was it was. Garbage, yeah the
Speaker 1: building owner just let it rot.
Speaker 2: Because it'd be really interesting to visit that. Nowadays but
Speaker 2: then also two people to get murdered in. There so,
Speaker 2: yeah not the great of the greatest of. Histories.
Speaker 1: Huh so that is the case of The Red Path mansion.
Speaker 2: MURDERS i would be so intrigued too to know, if,
Speaker 2: like if the dad had survived or still, lived if
Speaker 2: something like this could even have, happened you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah that's. True it's hard to. Say maybe he
Speaker 1: would have been on that hit list, too because maybe someone,
Speaker 1: thinks you, KNOW i got to get through him to
Speaker 1: be the one who has controlled the.
Speaker 2: Estate oh, wow h.
Speaker 1: Hm so it could have been even more gruesome.
Speaker 2: Then and then This peter guy just went on his
Speaker 2: way and still made. Sugar and, yeah blah blah, blah
Speaker 2: and The Red Path Sugar company is still selling sugar.
Speaker 1: Today.
Speaker 2: INTERESTING i don't know If i'm ever gonna look At
Speaker 2: Red Path sugar again the same.
Speaker 1: Way just it's kind of a funny little way to
Speaker 1: look at. It Red path just to me is like
Speaker 1: a path painted in.
Speaker 2: Blood, YEAH i hate, that thanks a. LOT i already went,
Speaker 2: there AND i just don't love. This what's the other
Speaker 2: kind of sugar? Brands i'm gonna buy the other.
Speaker 1: Just going right for someone else because you can't even
Speaker 1: think of it, Now.
Speaker 2: Oh my, goodness huh, wow what a.
Speaker 1: Story, Yeah and and to be, Fair i'm sure that
Speaker 1: The Red Path Sugar company is a very well built.
Speaker 1: Company it's not. Fine i'm sure they're not like they're
Speaker 1: actually built on a blood path or. Anything i'm just
Speaker 1: the one person just wanted to get in that business
Speaker 1: and had potentially had to get into the business and
Speaker 1: needed to do what they needed to.
Speaker 2: Do so, yeah it does have it does have a
Speaker 2: VERY i don't even know the word, here but unsettling.
Speaker 2: History oh, Yeah.
Speaker 1: SO i want everyone out there, listening hit us up
Speaker 1: on social, media let us know what you think, happened
Speaker 1: because this is a weird. Case this is a weird
Speaker 1: episode because of the lack of, Information SO i want
Speaker 1: to hear your.
Speaker 2: THEORIES i mean, really the main theories are it's Like
Speaker 2: clifford or It's, peter, RIGHT i.
Speaker 1: Mean the main. Ones, yeah there are potential thoughts of you,
Speaker 1: know being intruders Or i'm sure the hired hit, men
Speaker 1: like it's the list literally goes, On, YEAH i. Could
Speaker 1: there's no evidence to suggest, anything so anything is just a.
Speaker 2: Theory, Okay Well i'm gonna get off here and go
Speaker 2: look at this match BECAUSE i want to see what
Speaker 2: looks all.
Speaker 1: Right, well thanks for, listening, guys don't get to hit.
Speaker 1: Up our social media is down. Below that's where you
Speaker 1: can let us know what your theory is in this.
Speaker 1: Case Our patreon link below as, well and the footnotes
Speaker 1: of this. Show you've got Arch, yeah you got it.
Speaker 1: All we're out.
Speaker 2: There we're out, there so thanks for. Listening you guys are.
Speaker 1: Awesome, yeah we appreciate you being. Here and as of,
Speaker 1: course as, always.
Speaker 2: Until next, episode stay.
Speaker 1: Wicked