Speaker 1: Well, Hello, I'm Nicole and I'm Ben, and you are
Speaker 1: listening to Wicked.
Speaker 2: And Grim, which is a true time podcast party following post.
Speaker 1: Hey what's up guys? Yo, cheers you cheers, sippity sip
Speaker 1: the whole nine yards with the.
Speaker 2: Grim chairs, I'm actually drinking tazzo Calm the fuck down.
Speaker 1: Ty, Calm the fuck downty. Is that what it's actually called? No,
Speaker 1: I really hope it is. They should put that on
Speaker 1: the label.
Speaker 2: It's just called Calm the fuck down. But I think
Speaker 2: if it was called what you just said, like, they
Speaker 2: would actually sell more.
Speaker 1: Probably. Yeah, I'm just drinking coffee with a higher percent
Speaker 1: of alcohol than normal. Probably it may or may not
Speaker 1: be spiked.
Speaker 2: Do you ever have coffee that's not spiked? Oh?
Speaker 1: I do? Oh yeah, I actually I really enjoy black coffee.
Speaker 2: Yeah you do.
Speaker 1: I do, like no cream, no sugar that hits home.
Speaker 2: But you'd enjoy it more when there's some what is
Speaker 2: it Caroline Carolins in there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but not all the time. If I do it
Speaker 1: too much, I get sick of it and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't want this for a while. Like I haven't
Speaker 1: had Carolins in my coffee for over a week. I think. Wow,
Speaker 1: other than.
Speaker 2: Other than iced coffee, the bougie ice coffee, the ice coffees. Yes,
Speaker 2: we're all about those. Love it Okay, so fun packed, fun,
Speaker 2: major funds, super fun.
Speaker 1: You ready for this?
Speaker 2: This is the last podcast we're going to be recording
Speaker 2: in our house.
Speaker 1: Yes, next episode is officially going to be in our
Speaker 1: tiny home because we are moving in in like five
Speaker 1: days Saturday, So it's Monday right now as we're recording,
Speaker 1: and Saturday we are going to be moving in.
Speaker 2: Which is wild. So it's gonna be like a teeny tiny.
Speaker 1: Podcast, a teeny tiny podcast, Oh god, I mean it'll
Speaker 1: still be. We can gree it.
Speaker 2: Will be exactly the same, but well, we'll have to
Speaker 2: see it. Might I don't know if it will sound different.
Speaker 2: We're gonna be sitting in bean bag chairs, which is
Speaker 2: kind of sod.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in a little tiny loft up in our podcast
Speaker 1: or up in our tiny home little podcast studio we made.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm actually really excited.
Speaker 1: You guys will get a tour of that real soon.
Speaker 1: Don't worry. We've just been so far behind we haven't
Speaker 1: really been able to show much of that yet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it looks that we will and inside's a bit of
Speaker 1: a disaster right now because we're just trying to move
Speaker 1: stuff in. So once it's a little more organized it
Speaker 1: looks better, then we'll show you.
Speaker 2: We still actually have a lot of things in the house,
Speaker 2: so we have a busy week.
Speaker 1: Yeah we do. We're still making shelves. And I wrecked
Speaker 1: one wall. Yeah yeah, putting up shells. The nails went
Speaker 1: through the wall because it's just like a little like
Speaker 1: covered sort of thickness area.
Speaker 2: Anyways, nails garready wreck and shit, so well now I.
Speaker 1: Got to fix the other side.
Speaker 2: Fun Okay, I actually have something Oaks super fun to
Speaker 2: they do.
Speaker 1: Okay, what's up?
Speaker 2: Okay, So I did like our Monday sneak peek or
Speaker 2: what are what do we call, like guests the podcast
Speaker 2: or whatever. Yeah, and it's been over an hour. No
Speaker 2: one's guessed it.
Speaker 1: Yes, so hopefully no one gets this case and we
Speaker 1: can officially say we fooled you guys.
Speaker 2: It's so funny because I actually thought people would get
Speaker 2: this right away. But it is like a bit of
Speaker 2: a random photo. It doesn't have a lot to do
Speaker 2: with the case, but I was like thinking.
Speaker 1: It's a pretty synonymous photo with this case that you said.
Speaker 2: Right, well, I thought so.
Speaker 1: Well, either way, we'll see if we fool them.
Speaker 2: I think it'd be sweet if I fooled them, because
Speaker 2: I told you the other day I'm gonna be the
Speaker 2: one that does it, and there.
Speaker 1: It might be. Well, that's totally fine with me.
Speaker 2: So far, I'm winning.
Speaker 1: We we What are you talking about?
Speaker 2: You? Okay? Now, so it's a competition between see you
Speaker 2: if they'll get it, and between us apparently.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, before we dive into the case, can I
Speaker 1: say one more thing? Of course, I want to wish
Speaker 1: a happy belated birthday to Chili Bob, who is one
Speaker 1: of our listeners who's been there from the start and
Speaker 1: has actually been supporting me as a creator before the
Speaker 1: podcast even totally. Her birthday was actually on last Tuesday
Speaker 1: when last episode dropped. I didn't even know.
Speaker 2: That, how rude.
Speaker 1: I knew her birthday was like coming up, but I
Speaker 1: didn't know when, and then I figured it out and
Speaker 1: it was too late. So happy belated birthday out there
Speaker 1: to Chili Bob. We appreciate you. Hope your birthday was amazing,
Speaker 1: and hopefully the rest of the month continues to be amazing.
Speaker 1: Birth month for you.
Speaker 2: Happy Birthday. Boom boom done. Okay, are you ready?
Speaker 1: I'm ready.
Speaker 2: My hands are freezing. So we're going to see how
Speaker 2: this goes here.
Speaker 1: Okay, it'll work. Maybe it's because there's like ghosts in
Speaker 1: the room.
Speaker 2: I think there are.
Speaker 1: It's spooky season.
Speaker 2: Ever since the last episodes, I just have not been
Speaker 2: the same. I just haven't been the same. Shit's just
Speaker 2: just yeah.
Speaker 1: She's been creeping me out to a little bit more
Speaker 1: than normal.
Speaker 2: It is getting better, Like I'm like, it took a
Speaker 2: week though, apparently, like oh, Ben, like just he's off
Speaker 2: on us.
Speaker 1: Please Here, we're only diving into this spooky shit, especially
Speaker 1: when October hits, and then you know we're going headlong
Speaker 1: into that. And there's one case that I've been wanting
Speaker 1: to cover since day one that I've been saving specifically
Speaker 1: for Halloween.
Speaker 2: Sounds intriguing, you know what it is? Yeah, but you
Speaker 2: know me, I forget things really easy.
Speaker 1: Should I tell? Should I tell them what it is?
Speaker 1: Or should I make them wait?
Speaker 2: Tell?
Speaker 1: Okay, because there's going to be a bunch of stuff
Speaker 1: we drop in October.
Speaker 2: Yeah, October is going to be a sweet month.
Speaker 1: You guys can look forward to this case at least
Speaker 1: this is going to be a case of Robert the Doll.
Speaker 1: I love this case.
Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Robert the Doll was the inspiration for the
Speaker 1: Child's play movies. He was the inspiration for Chucky. Oh,
Speaker 1: okay in October.
Speaker 2: Oh I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'm going to start this and do it.
Speaker 2: Let's see, like, okay, if it didn't come out on
Speaker 2: Facebook or on Instagram, on Facebook too, we have both.
Speaker 2: It's Marcus Wesson and that's about all I know about
Speaker 2: the case. So Marcus was born on August twenty second,
Speaker 2: nineteen forty six, in Kansas, to parents of Benjamin and
Speaker 2: Carrie Wesson. He was the oldest of four children, and
Speaker 2: he was raised as a member of the Seventh Day
Speaker 2: Adventist Church, which is like a Protestant Christian denomination.
Speaker 1: Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 2: He himself claiming that his mother was a religious fanatic
Speaker 2: and his father was an alcoholic, was an alcoholic and
Speaker 2: a child abuser, including sexual abuse. Oh shit, who abandoned
Speaker 2: the family when Marcus was just a young boy.
Speaker 1: I mean, being abandon it's never a good thing. But
Speaker 1: if he was a a father like that, that's good.
Speaker 1: That they're now out of their lives.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Really I never looked at it like that. The
Speaker 2: mother would also physically abuse the children, of course, So
Speaker 2: I don't know. And it's interesting because it's like so many,
Speaker 2: so many cases is that we cover, right, like or
Speaker 2: just cases out there like the vic or the I
Speaker 2: don't know what the bad person, the perpetrator. Yeah, there
Speaker 2: you go, has like kind of a shitty upbringing and
Speaker 2: that just sucks.
Speaker 1: It seems like that's that's very what's the now, I'm
Speaker 1: forgetting words prominent, very prominent. Yeah, their upbringing. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's something that occurs often.
Speaker 2: I know. Well, now I'm like one of I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm sure we've covered some cases where they've had Yeah,
Speaker 2: we have where they've had a perfect upbringing.
Speaker 1: I'm sure we have.
Speaker 2: Well is there ever a nothing's perfect? There's no perfect upbringing.
Speaker 1: A normal a good.
Speaker 2: Upbringing, Yeah, what you would classify as normal. Yeah, So
Speaker 2: the family would relocate to San Bernardino, California. I hope
Speaker 2: him saying that right in the early nineteen sixties. Marcus
Speaker 2: would eventually drop out of high school and join the army,
Speaker 2: serving from nineteen sixty six to nineteen sixty eight as
Speaker 2: a medical care provider cool. He was given an honorable
Speaker 2: discharge at the end of his service. After this time
Speaker 2: in the in the army, Marcus would meet his future
Speaker 2: lover named Rosemary made Darnina.
Speaker 1: Okay, like that that Rosemary over the top name that
Speaker 1: I actually kind of fucking love the whole name. Yes,
Speaker 1: the whole name, just as a whole Like if I
Speaker 1: were to meet someone like named Rosemary or something like that,
Speaker 1: it's like, that's kind of an old fashioned name. But
Speaker 1: like Rosemary, what was it, ma Darnina or something?
Speaker 2: They may don't may Oh, I said it right for
Speaker 2: the beginning and now made yeah, may don't near. I
Speaker 2: don't know. Good Lord, don't ask me if I pronounced
Speaker 2: something right the beginning. Don't ask me to pronounce it again.
Speaker 1: Okay. Well, regardless, that whole name.
Speaker 2: Love it, love it. It actually sounds quite nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Rosemary was actually married at the time, though, okay,
Speaker 2: and a mother to eight children.
Speaker 1: To eight kids. Oh, she's a busy lady.
Speaker 2: M hmm. But this didn't deter Marcus, which it may
Speaker 2: deter some, I must, but it rather thrilled him. He
Speaker 2: was thrilled by the idea claiming they needed a shepherd.
Speaker 1: They needed a.
Speaker 2: Shepherd, like someone to guide them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I know what a shepherd is.
Speaker 2: Oh, it sounds like you didn't. So I was helping out.
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate the help, but I know what the
Speaker 1: shepherd was.
Speaker 2: And Casey didn't know what a shepherd was. It's basically
Speaker 2: someone to help God you. So Rosemary would quickly break
Speaker 2: it off with her husband, and Marcus moved in with
Speaker 2: Rosemary and her children in their San Jose, California home.
Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy one, they welcomed their first son together.
Speaker 2: Doesn't seem all that crazy so.
Speaker 1: Far, right, Well, I have some predictions going on in
Speaker 1: the back of my head.
Speaker 2: Here do you do? You don't know anything about this,
Speaker 2: really do you know?
Speaker 1: But you've already said that the father of this dude
Speaker 1: of Marcus was an abuser and sexually assaulted past some
Speaker 1: of the siblings, and the mother was an abuser. So
Speaker 1: I'm assuming he is now looking at these kids like
Speaker 1: potential victims for a sexual assault. Let's put that way, okay.
Speaker 2: So, well, where am i? And now? Oh I'm a
Speaker 2: pulling to you. You're okay? So shit would basically take
Speaker 2: a turn in nineteen seventy four, Marcus would become fixated
Speaker 2: with one of Rosemary's.
Speaker 1: Daughters, called it, fucking called that shit.
Speaker 2: Little Elizabeth, who was eight years old at the time.
Speaker 1: Oh fuck what Oh, this guy's greasy as fuck. She's eight,
Speaker 1: She's eight, God damn it.
Speaker 2: We're going to go into more detail about this soon.
Speaker 2: But Marcus was basically like a master manipulator. He took
Speaker 2: on a godlike role in the family, which is why
Speaker 2: I believe the following like was even able to happen.
Speaker 2: Both Elizabeth and Rosemary were brainwashed by Marcus's ideas, and
Speaker 2: he was able to convince them and when I say
Speaker 2: them like, I'm more so made Rosemary, being that she
Speaker 2: was the adult because Elizabeth was eight years old, that
Speaker 2: this was God's plan.
Speaker 1: Oh fuck, of course. It seems like a lot of
Speaker 1: people in this sort of mindset use that excuse so much.
Speaker 1: It's God's plan. Was old. Yeah. I understand that you
Speaker 1: might be religious, but I do not understand the fact
Speaker 1: that you think just because you have a point of
Speaker 1: view or feeling one way does not give you an
Speaker 1: excuse to say, well, God's making me do it. No.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's almost like these peop are just using
Speaker 2: that as an excuse for them to do terrible things.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, which, in that same argument, if you are
Speaker 1: a religious individual and you say you do have these
Speaker 1: visions from God and God wants you to do these things,
Speaker 1: shouldn't you question it and say, Okay, the devil is
Speaker 1: a master manipulator. Maybe it's not God wants me to
Speaker 1: do these Maybe the devil is showing me false visions,
Speaker 1: impersonating Jesus or God or whoever you are envisioning, and
Speaker 1: you should question the validity of these and question how
Speaker 1: good these things that you're being told to do are.
Speaker 2: Because, like we should know the difference between right and wrong.
Speaker 1: Right, So if you're being told to do bad things
Speaker 1: by God, maybe you should question is this really God
Speaker 1: telling me this?
Speaker 2: That's a good point. Have you had a question that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I have many times. Should I slap this person
Speaker 1: I work with?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I really want to?
Speaker 2: Okay, So, performing an at home marriage ceremony, Marcus would
Speaker 2: declare little Elizabeth at the age of eight his wife.
Speaker 2: Once Elizabeth was twelve years old, Marcus would begin to
Speaker 2: sexually assault her.
Speaker 1: Okay, at the age of eight, he declared her his wife.
Speaker 2: Yes, not, but this was just like an at home ceremony.
Speaker 1: That's that's still really fucked up because there's there's the
Speaker 1: whole things of like fathers going and dates their daughters.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a cute see little thing.
Speaker 2: Oh that's okay though, when you see those photos, that's
Speaker 2: the cutest shit scene.
Speaker 1: There's cutesy little fake ceremonies you do. You know your yeah,
Speaker 1: playdates and stuff with your child. I understand that. But
Speaker 1: he fucking married his daughter, yeah, unofficially.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then a few years later started sexually assaulting her,
Speaker 2: and at fourteen years old, she would become pregnant. Fuck.
Speaker 2: And at fifteen years old, Marcus would legally because apparently
Speaker 2: at that point in time that was legal age. I
Speaker 2: don't know. Mary Elizabeth and she would give birth to
Speaker 2: the first of what would be eleven children. And these
Speaker 2: eleven children were all birthed before Elizabeth reached the age
Speaker 2: of twenty six. You're a hot shit, yeah, Like I
Speaker 2: feel like that in itself is almost like using and
Speaker 2: abusing like that point. Wow, No, woman didn't get a
Speaker 2: freaking break, She.
Speaker 1: Didn't get a fuck. She had everything taken from her
Speaker 1: at that point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything everything, Wow, because like, that's just a lot
Speaker 2: of kids in a very short amount of time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and very young, and I'm assuming forced upon her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he I don't know if she, like
Speaker 2: she knew no other way, right, and he was manipulating
Speaker 2: her to believe that this was like the right way
Speaker 2: of life, this kind of thing. So I don't know
Speaker 2: if she was, like, I mean, he it was bad
Speaker 2: what he was doing, one hundred percent, but like, I
Speaker 2: don't know if she like knew it was bad. There
Speaker 2: was one article that said something about like that she
Speaker 2: liked the attention.
Speaker 1: But you grow up learning that things from these figures.
Speaker 1: Oh it's right, it's right, it's right. That's false information.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we will talk about that more too.
Speaker 1: So this is a whole fuck up situation.
Speaker 2: Wow, Oh this is just the fucking start. Man, like
Speaker 2: cam your titties like this, this just goes down.
Speaker 1: I Am not going to calm my titties. I'm going
Speaker 1: to start flapping them everywhere. And if you get hit
Speaker 1: in the face, it's your own.
Speaker 2: My own fault. Okay, Okay. So at one point in time, okay,
Speaker 2: and this is where one thing that I couldn't fully find.
Speaker 2: I think it was Elizabeth's sister, but it could also
Speaker 2: have been Rosemary's oldest daughter. But it doesn't super matter.
Speaker 2: One of these people suffered Okay, it doesn't matter because
Speaker 2: of this, it's because something else. It sucks that she
Speaker 2: suffered from a drug addiction, like not saying that's not
Speaker 2: a good thing.
Speaker 1: But the different differentiating between the individuals isn't necessary. Okay.
Speaker 2: So one of them was unable to care for their
Speaker 2: children so left them in the care of Elizabeth and Marcus.
Speaker 2: And that individual had seven children. So this household was
Speaker 2: just like a massive a massive amount of kids.
Speaker 1: It's a colony at this point.
Speaker 2: Like crazy, so basically a lot of mouse to feed.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, so and get this right. So far we
Speaker 1: have Rosemary having eight kids, and of those eight kids,
Speaker 1: two of them have had.
Speaker 2: Okay, but no, we've jumped ahead. Now we're basically like
Speaker 2: Elizabeth is now with Marcus.
Speaker 1: Okay, so Rosemary's not in the house anymore. Rosemary's gone.
Speaker 1: He left her for Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: I don't know if she's still in the house, but
Speaker 2: like Elizabeth, it's now we're moving on to Elizabeth's and
Speaker 2: Marcus's story, right, Okay, he was never married to Rosemary.
Speaker 1: Okay. See, I assumed like he was like married to
Speaker 1: Rosemary and married to her daughter Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: At the same time. I don't think he was ever
Speaker 2: actually married to Rosemary. Okay, yeah, so no, we're just
Speaker 2: like we jumped ahead a little bit here to where
Speaker 2: she's had like twenty six or and now she's the
Speaker 2: twenty six children, I mean eleven children before the age
Speaker 2: of twenty six, and then now they also have like
Speaker 2: these additional kids. So it's just like a house full.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's like eighteen children, is it.
Speaker 1: Outs that's a lot of kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, that's a shit ton of kids.
Speaker 1: I can't handle two huskies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think that we would be drowning. Okay,
Speaker 2: where was I hear? Do Do do doo? Okay. So
Speaker 2: Marcus was also not able to really keep a steady,
Speaker 2: steady job, receiving most of the family's income from welfare.
Speaker 2: This caused the family to kind of drift from place
Speaker 2: to place with some rather unique living arrangements. I don't
Speaker 2: know if we'll find them that unique, but some people might.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: At one point in time, the family lived in a
Speaker 2: twenty six foot boat, and their dinner would sometimes be
Speaker 2: scavenged hamburgers from a McDonald's dumpster, which I'm like, kind
Speaker 2: of breaks my heart. And this boat would, however, get
Speaker 2: Marcus in some trouble. He failed to disclose it as
Speaker 2: an asset when collecting welfare, which is fraud. So in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety Marcus would actually serve some time in jail.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, I think it was only like about a year.
Speaker 2: I could never find exactly how much, but it wasn't
Speaker 2: like a shit ton amount of time. So in the
Speaker 2: mid mid in late nineteen nineties, the family lived in
Speaker 2: a trailer and a large army tent in the Santa
Speaker 2: Cruz Mountains with no running water. They also at one
Speaker 2: point lived in a decaying sixty three foot tug boat
Speaker 2: and a school bus. Wow. So basically, I wouldn't say
Speaker 2: like life was super easy for the Wesson children.
Speaker 1: No kidding. They definitely have it hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they don't know it right. So, However, by
Speaker 2: the late nineteen nineties, some of the children were old
Speaker 2: enough to get jobs, to which Marcus used their money
Speaker 2: to buy an old office building in Fresno, Fresno, California, Resne.
Speaker 2: I always want to say freshca like I had to
Speaker 2: like practice early, but no, it's Fresno. So though some
Speaker 2: of the living room remainement, like I said, were unique,
Speaker 2: it was also Marcus's way of keeping the family out
Speaker 2: of site from others. None of the kids attended school
Speaker 2: because Marcus distrusted the public education system and if you
Speaker 2: lived in a neighborhood and you had seen like numerous
Speaker 2: children around midday, like you might get some questions.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2: Okay, So now to dive in a bit deeper into
Speaker 2: the story, as it's been a bit fluffy, that's that's.
Speaker 1: Fluffy fluffy so far.
Speaker 2: That's fluffy.
Speaker 1: That's the fluff on the top. That's ther foam la.
Speaker 2: There go extra phone place. Okay. So unfortunately, Elizabeth was
Speaker 2: not the only girl Marcus would take an interest in.
Speaker 1: I figured that was coming.
Speaker 2: At an early age. He would go on to molest
Speaker 2: and have children with other young girls in his life,
Speaker 2: other girls being his daughters and his nieces. Marcus sexually
Speaker 2: us two of his daughters and three of his nieces,
Speaker 2: all beginning at the age of eight years old, which
Speaker 2: is very interesting to think that he would wait till
Speaker 2: they were like eight, Like, what what's with the eight
Speaker 2: you know? Like to me, that's still like fretting young at.
Speaker 1: Shit, that's stupid young. But Tim, he's like eight legal, fuck,
Speaker 1: maybe you need to add teen at the end of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like a sick monster, like so inappropriate, Like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I even.
Speaker 1: Have left trouble picturing like people with eighteen when it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a forty something year old dude and she's eighteen.
Speaker 1: I'm just like just because don't mean, it's not fucking nasty.
Speaker 2: Issue now, I know. Oh, let's just not like, let's
Speaker 2: just not go there with our minds. So each of
Speaker 2: these five girls would go on to have Marcus's children.
Speaker 2: It's believed he fathered at least seventeen children, and I
Speaker 2: say at least because I don't know, people don't know
Speaker 2: for sure with seven different women. So because that's including
Speaker 2: one with Rosemary and eleven with Elizabeth, right, so we're
Speaker 2: assuming that he had one with each of these five
Speaker 2: other girls, but other reports said there was more, so
Speaker 2: I don't know. So, as I mentioned earlier, Marcus was
Speaker 2: a master manipulator, and his time leading and controlling the
Speaker 2: family was often compared to be like cult like. He
Speaker 2: was fascinated with David Kerr Carress, who was a famous
Speaker 2: American cult leader, which, yeah, I'll just leave it at that.
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll have to do his story.
Speaker 1: One day or some do we at least know what
Speaker 1: cult he led?
Speaker 2: What was it? I don't know if I, oh, shoot,
Speaker 2: I did look at the name.
Speaker 1: You did, you don't have written down, That's okay, But
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: What I did have written down that he played a
Speaker 2: central role in the Waco Sea siege or massacre or
Speaker 2: whatever of nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Interesting, So I don't know. And Marcus was fascinated by him,
Speaker 2: which is like probably someone you should not be fascinated
Speaker 2: by or look up to, right, Yeah, uh so Marcus
Speaker 2: made his family his own little personal cult. He described
Speaker 2: himself as Jesus Christ and police officers as Satan.
Speaker 1: I would describe him as many other things, many things.
Speaker 2: He also believed that Jesus was a vampire, interesting choice,
Speaker 2: which is very interesting. He had a fascination with the
Speaker 2: undead and seeing similarities between undead creatures and Jesus.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean technically Jesus rising from the grave.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, I guess, I guess you could go.
Speaker 1: There, But that parallel has been drawn a few times
Speaker 1: pop culture and stuff. I mean zombie Easter. Once in
Speaker 1: a while will say happy zombie Jesus Day.
Speaker 2: Oh I never heard that actually, Okay, anyway, I was
Speaker 2: just reading a loud I was like, that's fuck.
Speaker 1: Well, Jesus' resurrection.
Speaker 2: I know it makes sense, it will ish. I'm just
Speaker 2: not even gonna go there because like we might get
Speaker 2: in trouble from people just kidding.
Speaker 1: We are not saying Jesus is a zombie, no, but
Speaker 1: we can understand how some people might think of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I guess we can get the correlation between him,
Speaker 2: but I still think it's weird as fuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So this led him to collect coffins, which she found
Speaker 2: at antique stores.
Speaker 1: Hey, coffins aren't cheap. This motherfucker is supposed to be
Speaker 1: broke as shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're I think they're like he thrifted them,
Speaker 2: so maybe they're.
Speaker 1: Still How do you thrift a coffin? It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this one's slightly used. Did you get a question that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he stored them in his house and he
Speaker 2: had like ten, so I don't know where the oh yeah,
Speaker 2: oh what Maybe I'm assuming they were knew but maybe not.
Speaker 1: You I don't. I would assume so as well, but
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: No, my brain's going a wild here.
Speaker 1: So I didn't realize thrifting coffins was.
Speaker 2: A thing, yeah, because generally it's you shit.
Speaker 1: Surplus coffins, you know, yeah, or like.
Speaker 2: Or maybe it's that someone bought them and then could
Speaker 2: make the final payment.
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, what is that called?
Speaker 2: People do that on houses, So I can't remember. I
Speaker 2: don't know. But anyway, he collected coffins, he thought they
Speaker 2: were sweet, and he even went as far as naming
Speaker 2: and giving some of his children vampire names, one being Jieva,
Speaker 2: which is a combination of Jesus and vampire. Interesting, which
Speaker 2: it's like, not a terrible name, but then if you know,
Speaker 2: if you know the background of it, you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I mean it's interesting.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I'm not going to knock that because, like you say,
Speaker 1: Jeeva is not a terrible name. I've heard much worse. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I don't mind that name particularly. And if he
Speaker 1: wants to combine Jesus and vampire, I mean, it's.
Speaker 2: Two of his interests.
Speaker 1: I guess it's an odd choice, but go for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with unique names.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go, Jieva. Maybe that will start a trend.
Speaker 2: Let's name the kids Jeeva. So the children were homeschooled,
Speaker 2: and I'm like not really sure to what extent. I
Speaker 2: never found any reports of him teaching them subjects of
Speaker 2: like math and science, but.
Speaker 1: You never sex said, you never know.
Speaker 2: But he he would do Bible studies with them.
Speaker 1: Well at least he did that, so.
Speaker 2: Numerous times a day Marcus would get to become the preacher.
Speaker 2: And he always dreamed, apparently of being a preacher teaching
Speaker 2: hit them from his own handwritten Bible that focuses on
Speaker 2: Jesus being a vampire. So he put his own spin
Speaker 2: on it, and it was his interpretations of the Bible
Speaker 2: and Seventh day Adventist beliefs. So he just kind of
Speaker 2: like made his own religion in a sense.
Speaker 1: Really, this is a cult. This is not a quasi cult.
Speaker 1: This is just a small thing, but it's a cult.
Speaker 2: I guess it's a cult. But then I also I
Speaker 2: guess the way I sort of view cults more so
Speaker 2: is like he's forcing everyone in his family to just
Speaker 2: be part of his cult. But it's still not like
Speaker 2: bringing in outsiders or anything like what I feel like
Speaker 2: most cults kind of do attract.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, he's sheltering his following from the outside
Speaker 1: world and others. Oh yeah, he is claiming he is
Speaker 1: a messiah and he is falsifying information. However he gets
Speaker 1: said followers is kind of irrelevant. He just as followers,
Speaker 1: shelters them and claims to be said messiah. That that's
Speaker 1: a fucking cult.
Speaker 2: I know it well because what was his what's one
Speaker 2: of his nicknames? Oh, my gosh, douche Canoe, vampire, king
Speaker 2: of of douches. What's the town Freshco? Freshco? I was
Speaker 2: gonna say it wrong, an Fresco.
Speaker 1: Yeah, vampire king of douches. I like that better though. Okay,
Speaker 1: we just took a really quick pause break because we're
Speaker 1: pretty sure we're saying that name of the city wrong.
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm like, what was I saying this whole time?
Speaker 2: It's Fresno, Californias.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got Fresca in her mind, messing us up.
Speaker 1: So it's Fred's No, I'm gonna literally write this on
Speaker 1: my hand, fres No.
Speaker 2: So we apologize. We're tired, and I'm actually like, we'll
Speaker 2: probably go back and listen and maybe we were saying
Speaker 2: it right. I don't know now, I can't even remember
Speaker 2: how I was pronouncing it, but it's Fresnel, California. So anyway,
Speaker 2: he had the nickname of the Vampire King of fres
Speaker 2: Snow was like nickname that he had. I didn't really
Speaker 2: even throw that in there, but I was like, but
Speaker 2: you seem to really be onto this that he's cult.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, he's just like forcing people to be
Speaker 2: in there.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, still a cult?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: It is? He has followers, right, his family is following
Speaker 1: him and worshiping him and following his word, believing.
Speaker 2: Him, like the cult. I didn't want to give him
Speaker 2: that much credit, but okay, here we go. So he
Speaker 2: would tell his children that he was God and have
Speaker 2: them because he would have them refer to him as
Speaker 2: master or lord. So okay, he because he had David,
Speaker 2: that guy like he looked up to him, which was
Speaker 2: a cult person. But I'm just like he wanted to
Speaker 2: have a cult, but like he's just using his own family.
Speaker 2: But okay, okay, still a cult. I didn't want to
Speaker 2: give him that much credit. But we're doing it, I guess,
Speaker 2: and I don't love that.
Speaker 1: So he also that's not credit. That's just showing how
Speaker 1: much of a fucking douchebag this guy is. That's not credit.
Speaker 1: That's that's us credits. It's good credit.
Speaker 2: That makes them just go down even more.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely.
Speaker 2: Okay. So he also taught them to be prepared for armageddon,
Speaker 2: which was very interesting. So like that was like their studies.
Speaker 2: I think, how to be prepared for armageddon and listening
Speaker 2: to this MOBOs fake bible that he.
Speaker 1: Created, Well, there's nothing wrong with being a prepper.
Speaker 2: Okay. There, that's probably actually good things that should be
Speaker 2: taught in school, but we don't know how he taught them.
Speaker 2: They should also be taught how to study math, maybe
Speaker 2: end times, but you never know the.
Speaker 1: Fact that he's obsessed with the undead and he's preparing
Speaker 1: them for armageddon. I guarantee you he's probably preparing him
Speaker 1: for the zombie apocalypse. So I saw, like, we're gonna
Speaker 1: rob Costco. Get your shotguns, boys and girls, let's go
Speaker 1: out and practice or shoot.
Speaker 2: Does cost go down there have guns and stuff?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just people.
Speaker 2: I think the Costcos have booze and ourses and have booze.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Canada kind of sucks well, we just have.
Speaker 2: We finally have a liquor store, one liquor store in
Speaker 2: the whole city that has wine. But that's it.
Speaker 1: No, we have a grocery store that has wine.
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, what did I say? Okay, sorry, I already
Speaker 2: said I was tired. Okay, we have one grocery store. Finally. Hold,
Speaker 2: we have a lot of all of them wine. We
Speaker 2: live in it are down is a down of five thousand.
Speaker 2: We have one liquor store.
Speaker 1: No, we're definitely large.
Speaker 2: Okay, no, but it was sweet because our one grocery store. Okay,
Speaker 2: we have more than one. We have more than one
Speaker 2: grocery store. I'm like, I just need to shut the
Speaker 2: hell up here. But we finally got like it has wine.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of one one stop shop ish for
Speaker 2: me anyway, because I like wine. Geez, I don't know.
Speaker 1: That was a whole train wreck, really was I hope
Speaker 1: you guys are still listening. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna share photos of of Marcus too on
Speaker 2: our Instagram because I'm like, not super intimidated by a
Speaker 2: lot of people, but like he's scarce shit out of me,
Speaker 2: Like he's like scary, So I don't know, he also
Speaker 2: has that intimidation factor I think with his family, like
Speaker 2: he probably scared them a little, right, Okay, So all
Speaker 2: the girls were raised and groomed to believe that they
Speaker 2: were destined to be Marcus's future wives. Of course, from
Speaker 2: the time that they were basically born, the marriage ceremonies
Speaker 2: would consist of the couple putting their hands on a
Speaker 2: Bible and reciting marriage vows. Seems legit, right, Oh totally so.
Speaker 2: As I mentioned earlier, he married two of his daughters
Speaker 2: and three nieces, all which would have his children. Along
Speaker 2: with isolating the children from the real world, Marcus also
Speaker 2: isolated them amongst the group themselves. Being particularly possessive of
Speaker 2: the females, The girls were not allowed to talk to
Speaker 2: their male siblings. This was apparently to prevent further incest,
Speaker 2: which at least okay. Initially I thought like, that's disgusting,
Speaker 2: but like the family maybe thought that was okay, right,
Speaker 2: so it could have Yeah, more of that could have happened.
Speaker 2: Who knows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm pretty sure it's more so Marcus not
Speaker 1: preventing further incests, it's preventing anyone else from getting the
Speaker 1: daughters he wanted. To keep for himself, not to prevent incest,
Speaker 1: but to prevent him not getting other daughters.
Speaker 2: Well, and then to maybe one of those brothers could
Speaker 2: have like maybe the brothers didn't even know it was happening,
Speaker 2: which I think could definitely be, and then they would
Speaker 2: be like what the heck or whatever? Right, and then
Speaker 2: there was like a whole little war. So he would
Speaker 2: tell his daughters and his nieces this was how a
Speaker 2: father showed his love. It was a normal father daughter relationship.
Speaker 1: Of course, that's what he said.
Speaker 2: Oh like that just makes me want a.
Speaker 1: Bar fight and under isolation like that, you don't know
Speaker 1: any different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, it actually makes me nauseous. I feel like
Speaker 2: a lot of times when we're talking about cases, I
Speaker 2: feel mauxious. That's just the thing. They were also not
Speaker 2: allowed to speak to their mother, Elizabeth. Marcus prevented her
Speaker 2: from participating in the children's upbringing. Really Yeah, so I
Speaker 2: don't know exactly how he did this, but he had
Speaker 2: a way of doing this other than having the girl's
Speaker 2: weight on marcus hand and foot. This mofo was also abusive.
Speaker 1: Of course, he would which I'm sure.
Speaker 2: Doesn't surprise anyone here. He would use brutal force to
Speaker 2: keep the children in line, hitting them with electrical cords. Well,
Speaker 2: I guess whipping them with electrical cords baseball bats.
Speaker 1: And his fists baseball bats. Jesus fuck.
Speaker 2: And like he was not a small man, so a
Speaker 2: spoiler alert at the end. At the time of his arrest,
Speaker 2: he weighed over three hundred pounds. Apparently the man really
Speaker 2: liked fast food.
Speaker 1: That's a big boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There was even some that said four hundred, but
Speaker 2: most said three hundred, so it was like three hundred
Speaker 2: and four hundred pounds.
Speaker 1: Like that's a big dude, right, Yeah, no kidding, So.
Speaker 2: A punch from him would definitely sting a bit. One
Speaker 2: child was beaten for thirty days because he ate a
Speaker 2: spoonful of peanut butter without permission. Wow, so you and
Speaker 2: me would be like getting beaten daily.
Speaker 1: Yeah, peanut butter is loud, glad that holds us together.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, first spoonful peanut butter, it might
Speaker 1: be worth thirty days of torture.
Speaker 2: Well just wait, that was a joke. Just well, I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna say, like, it's not just like a little
Speaker 2: beating like some of the So how the beatings would
Speaker 2: work was it You got hit sixty three times a day,
Speaker 2: twenty one hits in the morning, twenty one hits in
Speaker 2: the afternoon, and twenty one hits in the evening for
Speaker 2: however many days your punishment was and it was up
Speaker 2: to you to remind Marcus it was time for your spa,
Speaker 2: as the kids would call it. Wow, like that's disgusting,
Speaker 2: like gross. He also didn't discriminate on age, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: which we kind of already knew. But he beat one
Speaker 2: of his one month old infants what until his legs
Speaker 2: bled because he wouldn't stop crying, And when the mom,
Speaker 2: Marcus's niece and wife, tried to leave, he stabbed her
Speaker 2: in the chest.
Speaker 1: What the fuck?
Speaker 2: Like a one month old baby was just crying.
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't think this dude could get any worse.
Speaker 2: And he just fucking scum. He's just scum.
Speaker 1: Holy shit, Fuck this guy.
Speaker 2: He makes me uncomfortable. So now is mentioned earlier, everyone
Speaker 2: in the household was expected to do hard work, and
Speaker 2: you were if you were of age to get a
Speaker 2: job that was expected of you, with all of your
Speaker 2: earnings going to Marcus of course, yah, which okay, allowing
Speaker 2: the children to attend jobs. Seem like it could have
Speaker 2: been kind of risky, right, but he had them under
Speaker 2: such control, and I think like the control was basically
Speaker 2: fear based that no one shared their dirty laundry, not
Speaker 2: to police or anyone that they were working with. So
Speaker 2: his income came from his kids and welfare. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like just crazy. At one point in time, two of
Speaker 2: the girls, well I guess they were be women at
Speaker 2: this point, decided this lifestyle wasn't for them, Ruby and Sophia,
Speaker 2: so they were the nieces of Marcus and his wives. Like,
Speaker 2: it's just fucked up. Like I just like I think
Speaker 2: I keep explaining that, but you guys get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we know it's fucked. We know it's really fucked.
Speaker 2: They had attempted to run away before but were never successful,
Speaker 2: but this time they begged Marcus to let them go,
Speaker 2: which he ultimately did, but under the condition that they
Speaker 2: would leave their sons behind. This left them no choice,
Speaker 2: so they left, and they left their sons behind.
Speaker 1: That's a difficult choice.
Speaker 2: Wow, I know, Like that's just oh. I just couldn't imagine.
Speaker 2: They tried to move on with their lives, but the
Speaker 2: trauma they had from the previous lifestyle was a lot
Speaker 2: to deal with. Like in two thousand and four, they
Speaker 2: decided to go back for their sons. It was also
Speaker 2: mentioned that Marcus may have intentions to move the family
Speaker 2: to Washington State, as this was where his parents lived,
Speaker 2: which could have been another reason why, like the parents
Speaker 2: were or those women were coming back for their children
Speaker 2: right because he was taking them out of state basically,
Speaker 2: So they connected with family outside of the family cult
Speaker 2: to help them, and all together showed up at the
Speaker 2: home of Marcus. Marcus handled the situation quite calmly, but
Speaker 2: the family inside the house was screaming at the women
Speaker 2: because in their brainwashed minds, they were traders, right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So the police were then called. When the officers arrived,
Speaker 2: both Ruby and Sophia told them that Marcus was going
Speaker 2: to hurt the kids. I guess there was a suicide
Speaker 2: pack that was regularly discussed. Oh shit in the household.
Speaker 2: Shit if anyone in law enforcement showed up, the women
Speaker 2: were ordered to kill their children and themselves.
Speaker 1: Holy fuck.
Speaker 2: When the officers spoke to Marcus, he did agree to
Speaker 2: let the kids go, but asked if he could say
Speaker 2: goodbye first.
Speaker 1: Oh shit.
Speaker 2: The officers agreed. Marcus shut the door, and the officers
Speaker 2: waited an hour and a half for Marcus to return.
Speaker 2: Once he were turned he was covered in blood. Now,
Speaker 2: this part is beyond fucked up, and I like cannot
Speaker 2: comprehend it.
Speaker 1: This part's beyond fucked up.
Speaker 2: The part I'm just to say is neighbors say they
Speaker 2: heard gunshots during the period that Marcus was inside saying
Speaker 2: his goodbyes, but none of the officers claimed they heard anything,
Speaker 2: So like that just doesn't make any sense, Like I
Speaker 2: don't get that, like they were outside.
Speaker 1: Waiting, yeah, but also why would they wait that long?
Speaker 1: I know, like it's literally a hostage situation.
Speaker 2: Well not necessarily because they didn't really have any grounds
Speaker 2: to like barge in. I guess like they didn't have
Speaker 2: the warrants and shit that they need it. But I
Speaker 2: mean people were in danger technically in there, So I
Speaker 2: don't know. The whole thing just seems fucked up. But
Speaker 2: he got that extra time to go in there, so ready.
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if anyone survived, or if anyone left,
Speaker 1: So would you walk out or anything? You know.
Speaker 2: Marcus was obviously immediately arrested as he was covered in blood,
Speaker 2: and the officers entered the building. What was inside was
Speaker 2: absolutely heartbreaking. A pile of bodies in the back room,
Speaker 2: all intertwined. The bodies were so entangled that it took
Speaker 2: hours for police to confirm the number of dead bodies.
Speaker 2: It was thought there may have been some kind of
Speaker 2: ritual involved. I don't know exactly what the suicide pack entailed,
Speaker 2: but this was the aftermath. Nine were dead, ranging in
Speaker 2: age from twenty five to one years old, and each
Speaker 2: person had a gunshot wound through the eye, So everyone
Speaker 2: in the house.
Speaker 1: Ye, I find it hard to believe that officers didn't
Speaker 1: hear gunshots.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, See, that just makes no sense, does it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. But then other because other people reported
Speaker 2: hearing the gunshots, so I don't know. Basically, there was
Speaker 2: nine dead. The victims were uh Sapirrina, who you'll hear
Speaker 2: more about. She was age twenty five, Elizabeth age seventeen,
Speaker 2: Illabel age eight, av Aviv Sorry I might be pronouncing
Speaker 2: that wrong, age seven, Jonathan age seven, Ethan age four,
Speaker 2: Marshi age one, Jieva age one, and Sedona age one.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: M hm. The first and older two victims were Marcus's daughters,
Speaker 2: and the other seven were children. Of his daughters or nieces,
Speaker 2: so I guess some of them would be his children
Speaker 2: and his grandchildren, which is really yucky.
Speaker 1: Just wow, Like I'm fucking speechless right now. Holy shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you're about to get even more speechless. Some
Speaker 2: other weird shit happens.
Speaker 1: Okay, Wow, it just keeps getting We're going like down
Speaker 1: this major spiral. I keep thinking, like we've hit the
Speaker 1: fucking mother load of like disaster.
Speaker 2: That was the main spiral. There's just one tiny other one.
Speaker 2: So it was the largest mass killing in the history
Speaker 2: of Freshnel. Okay, so fresh No. I was like, did
Speaker 2: I say their own noise in it? Which is the city?
Speaker 2: Which is a city of about half a million, so
Speaker 2: it's on a small city. I've never heard of the city. Actually, no,
Speaker 2: I have, Oh have you? Oh it's about three hours
Speaker 2: from San Francisco.
Speaker 1: Been to San France.
Speaker 2: I've been to San fran But yeah, I'm like, I've
Speaker 2: never heard of the city. It's like it seems like
Speaker 2: a large city, but I don't know if is that
Speaker 2: a large city in the US.
Speaker 1: Well, compared to San Francisco, it's definitely not.
Speaker 2: A I guess, yeah, Like in I don't even know
Speaker 2: we don't have a ship ton of large cities in Canada.
Speaker 2: I feel like, well, we.
Speaker 1: Do have a couple, like we got Toronto, Toronto, well like.
Speaker 2: Vancouver and saftly, I feel like each province has like
Speaker 2: a large city.
Speaker 1: Yeah Calgary, Calgary, gosh.
Speaker 2: What are you doing over there? And people could only
Speaker 2: see how you were trying to pronounce these words?
Speaker 1: Just too much Calgary, I know, I know. But anyway,
Speaker 1: but like for us though, like you drive hours to
Speaker 1: try and reach a large city, the closest one for
Speaker 1: us is Vancouver, and that's over eight hundred klometers away,
Speaker 1: and we are in the province as far as Northern
Speaker 1: British Columbia, we are the largest city in Northern BC
Speaker 1: and Prince George of the eighty thousand people, I.
Speaker 2: Think it's about that. So yeah, yeah, so I don't know,
Speaker 2: it's just different. Okay. So, as I said, Marcus was
Speaker 2: arrested and he was held in the Freshnel count Each
Speaker 2: jail on a nine million dollar bail, which I'm like,
Speaker 2: that's working a lot. He's not gonna have any friends
Speaker 2: that can do that things.
Speaker 1: I really hope not.
Speaker 2: He was charged with nine murders and fourteen counts of rape.
Speaker 2: When he appeared at his trial a year later, he
Speaker 2: looked like a different person, though he had his dreadlocks,
Speaker 2: which were described at the time of his arrest. Arrest
Speaker 2: as looking like one greasy long dreadlock were so they
Speaker 2: were cut short, and he was nearly half the size.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't know. You could say jail wasn't
Speaker 2: agreeing with him, but maybe it was agreeing with him,
Speaker 2: even with the many Even with this, many potential jurors
Speaker 2: were excused from the trial after claiming to be terrified
Speaker 2: to be in the same room as Marcus. So even
Speaker 2: after like kind of cleaned up his appearance slightly, I
Speaker 2: guess the dude was just like a scary mofo. Wow, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, he's scary.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't mind the fact that some people
Speaker 1: left because they were terrified with him, because that only
Speaker 1: means the fact that we are getting jurors who are
Speaker 1: not intimidated by this fucker. Try. Yeah, so that that
Speaker 1: would be like a bonus.
Speaker 2: A dream dur job. I feel like, if I'm ever
Speaker 2: going to be an injury, I want the case to
Speaker 2: just be fucked, just fucked, because I would end up
Speaker 2: if you end up be in there and it's a
Speaker 2: real boring one, like I'd fall asleep.
Speaker 1: I want you here because Judy Marie Santiago did not
Speaker 1: paid her parking ticket on the date of January fourth,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would just like fall asleep. So I need
Speaker 2: it to be really interesting.
Speaker 1: I really hope that Judy is listening and it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: that's me.
Speaker 2: That's me, and I did get a parking ticket. Okay,
Speaker 2: So Marcus, Marcus, he actually pleaded not guilty to the charges.
Speaker 2: Do you want to know why why? The defense was
Speaker 2: that his twenty four or twenty five year old daughter, Sabrina,
Speaker 2: had been the one to kill them all and then
Speaker 2: she killed herself, which is stupid. Yeah I should add that.
Speaker 2: And I hope her name is actually Sabrina, but it
Speaker 2: seems like it is, but I, like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it is. She also in everyone that
Speaker 2: was like dead, her eighteen month old son was one
Speaker 2: of them, so she would have had to kill her
Speaker 2: own son. The murder weapon was a zero point twenty
Speaker 2: two caliber handgun.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, now keep going. I'm going to touch on
Speaker 1: that in a minute.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'll break here in a second was found
Speaker 2: with her body. Her DNA was present on the gun,
Speaker 2: but there was mixed reports whether her fingerprints were also
Speaker 2: found on the weapon. But even if there were, you know,
Speaker 2: damn well, it was Marcus who was one hundred percent
Speaker 2: behind this. It was his brainwashing that led to the
Speaker 2: incident to happen. The whole suicide pack was not something
Speaker 2: that Sabrina would have come up with her.
Speaker 1: Also, the fact that clearly he came out covered in blood.
Speaker 1: He was present, Yeah, he was present, so he allowed
Speaker 1: it to happen. He definitely tampered with a crime scene.
Speaker 1: Even if Sabrina was the one pulling the trigger, he
Speaker 1: would have been piling the bodies or whatever he did, right,
Speaker 1: So he's covered in blood, so there's something there. Second
Speaker 1: of all, it was a twenty two caliber bullet. You said,
Speaker 1: twenty two's are really small guns. They do not make
Speaker 1: a lot of noise, do they not? They do not.
Speaker 1: Oh so, if you have someone firing a twenty two
Speaker 1: caliber handgun inside a residence, okay, and you have officers
Speaker 1: waiting over the course of an hour, I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: they're not standing at the front door. They very well
Speaker 1: might be sitting in the squad car with maybe even
Speaker 1: the radio playing to kill the time. If that's a scenario,
Speaker 1: which is unlikely scenario, I guarantee you they would not have.
Speaker 2: Heard that twenty Seriously, it's that quiet.
Speaker 1: It's a very small caliber gun.
Speaker 2: But it's enough that if one shot through the head
Speaker 2: would kill you.
Speaker 1: It's enough that the bullet will enter the head, but
Speaker 1: the bullet will not exit the head. It was actually
Speaker 1: used in mafia because the twenty two caliber will not
Speaker 1: exit the head, so when they execute someone, the bullet
Speaker 1: will actually bounce around inside the skull. Oh god, I'm
Speaker 1: sure is killing someone and it does not leave a
Speaker 1: mess for cleanup because you have no exit wound.
Speaker 2: Okay, so how would he have gotten this blood? Okay?
Speaker 2: So would there have been like spray when these people
Speaker 2: were shot?
Speaker 1: Well, like they're shot to the eye, so they're bleeding out.
Speaker 2: The eye, so there would be some blood that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean going through the eye. Actually it's
Speaker 1: going through the orbits. There's not much bone tissue it's
Speaker 1: going through. So there very well could have been exit
Speaker 1: wounds in this case because the bone entry wound is
Speaker 1: what prevents the bullet from continuing through the outside, so
Speaker 1: in this case there might be exit wounds, so it
Speaker 1: might be why it's so messy. But still, a twenty
Speaker 1: two caliber bullet did not make much noise.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Okay, to put it into perspective, twenty two calibers are
Speaker 1: used for hunting things like grouse and rabbit.
Speaker 2: Hmmm. So wow, that's very interesting. Thank you for that.
Speaker 2: The more you know, because I didn't research if that
Speaker 2: gun made much noise, which I guess I should have had.
Speaker 1: Oh and if you have a neighbor sitting nearby who's
Speaker 1: maybe sitting down reading a book.
Speaker 2: Or even if they were just like having conversations the
Speaker 2: police officers, they may not have heard it. Ah, so
Speaker 2: huh eh okay with that.
Speaker 1: Sorry.
Speaker 2: So there were some members of the cult family. I
Speaker 2: just hate saying that cult. I don't know. I okay,
Speaker 2: it's a cult. We've accepted that, who initially still believed
Speaker 2: and trusted Marcus and would like defend him in court.
Speaker 2: They were just so brainwashed, right, Like I mean, like
Speaker 2: just so brainwashed. The jury, which took more than two
Speaker 2: weeks to deliberate, declined to find that Marcus fired the
Speaker 2: fatal shots, but found him guilty anyway, finding that he
Speaker 2: had persuaded his children to enter into a suicide pack.
Speaker 2: So guilty on nine counts of first degree murder and
Speaker 2: fourteen counts of raping and molesting seven of his daughters
Speaker 2: and nieces. He was sentenced to death on June twenty seventh,
Speaker 2: two thousand and five. Jeez it, however, is now twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course I know where you're going, yep.
Speaker 2: And Marcus is still alive, sitting on death row. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just waiting, I guess, and costing us money. It might
Speaker 2: be not aust he's American, well, but costing I guess
Speaker 2: that would be to I'm assuming taxpayers down there, yeah,
Speaker 2: to their money. Right.
Speaker 1: Well, he's taken up facility rooms, he's taken up resources
Speaker 1: such as you know, food, medical, And why does it
Speaker 1: take so long for someone sitting on death row to
Speaker 1: receive their sentence received the penalty?
Speaker 2: I guess it seems like sometimes the criminals wanted But
Speaker 2: like I couldn't find anything about him doing appeal or anything,
Speaker 2: so like for this, I don't know.
Speaker 1: You know, Well, because most people end up sitting on
Speaker 1: death row, they generally end up passing away of natural
Speaker 1: causes or that's.
Speaker 2: Medical expenses too, right there.
Speaker 1: I wonder why that is.
Speaker 2: I would like to know. Actually, how can we find
Speaker 2: that out?
Speaker 1: We should research that. You'd think that being podcasts hosts
Speaker 1: of true crime, we might know that.
Speaker 2: But well, yeah, because okay, so it was two thousand
Speaker 2: and five, so that's like sixteen years.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's like a long time, no kidding.
Speaker 2: Okay. So it took his children years and I mean
Speaker 2: years of deprogramming and separation from Marcus to finally understand
Speaker 2: the horrors they lived through. While Marcus was going through court,
Speaker 2: a few of the boys had said that he was
Speaker 2: such a great dad and that he would never hurt
Speaker 2: his kids.
Speaker 1: Unless it was with a baseball bat.
Speaker 2: Or if you had peanut butter.
Speaker 1: Oh. Snap.
Speaker 2: Today they are finally able to say that their father
Speaker 2: was psychotic, narcissistic, and deluded.
Speaker 1: Wow that's some progress there.
Speaker 2: Well, progress that needed to be made. So I'm glad
Speaker 2: they're getting the help or whatever they d As disturbing
Speaker 2: as all of this is, most of the children were
Speaker 2: born into the family cult and not having a lot
Speaker 2: of access to the outside world, they had no clue
Speaker 2: that their lives could be any different.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, how do you know otherwise you're sheltered from
Speaker 1: everything else. That's literally all you know.
Speaker 2: That's their normal.
Speaker 1: Well, the individual who's causing all this abuse in their
Speaker 1: life is the one who taught them growing up that
Speaker 1: it's okay and the way the world is and you
Speaker 1: don't see anything.
Speaker 2: Else, the nasty mofo.
Speaker 1: He is you nasty nasty.
Speaker 2: Two of the girls were interviewed about his lovings. Yeah,
Speaker 2: which is s barb really at the discuss at the
Speaker 2: age of eight, and one girl admitted that when Marcus
Speaker 2: started she thought it was okay, with the other girl
Speaker 2: saying when it was happening to her, she felt it
Speaker 2: was wrong. So that's basically this story.
Speaker 1: Oh, I feel so bad for these kids.
Speaker 2: If you want to dive a bit deeper, which for
Speaker 2: this one, like I actually think I will. There's a
Speaker 2: book called Deadly Devotion. It was originally published as Where
Speaker 2: Hope Begins. It was written by Alicia Sophias, who was
Speaker 2: a reporter and covered the case at the time, and
Speaker 2: she ultimately welcomed the family into her home to like
Speaker 2: help them. So she got like some serious first hand
Speaker 2: knowledge and wrote this book. So I meant, I mean
Speaker 2: it's probably super interesting. It's a shame we always when
Speaker 2: I found out about the book, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: should I postpone this case? But I was already like
Speaker 2: pretty deep into it, and we always find out too late.
Speaker 1: Well, that's kind of a one of the downsides of
Speaker 1: us right now doing podcasting on the side is we
Speaker 1: only have about a week or so to research each case.
Speaker 1: We don't have time to really dive in ahead of schedule,
Speaker 1: so we just research one case like mad for an
Speaker 1: entire week and then post it out there. So when
Speaker 1: we do find that there's a book, it's like, it's
Speaker 1: almost too late. Yeah, we have like two days to
Speaker 1: get this out, this episode out. We got to find
Speaker 1: the book, read the book, and then work it into
Speaker 1: our research in two days. It's just not manageable. So
Speaker 1: with a new life coming up, we're doing our own
Speaker 1: gigs and leaving the nine to fives and sitting in
Speaker 1: the tiny home podcasting more often.
Speaker 2: There you go, hint, hint, this.
Speaker 1: Might be something that we can start diving into and
Speaker 1: do it more of getting these books read before podcasting.
Speaker 2: I actually used to have like reading as a hobby
Speaker 2: when I was younger, but then I started university and
Speaker 2: my reading of became just textbooks, and I think it
Speaker 2: was ruined it for me. So it is only I
Speaker 2: want to get back into. So there we go. We'll
Speaker 2: have time.
Speaker 1: We're going to do it, because I know there's I
Speaker 1: can't remember the name of the individual, but the little
Speaker 1: girl who was lost at sea for like three days.
Speaker 1: There's a book on that one as well, and I
Speaker 1: want to read that one.
Speaker 2: Stay so that those would be both good books. They
Speaker 2: would maybe THO should be our next books.
Speaker 1: Maybe let's do it.
Speaker 2: And this is the last podcast in the house.
Speaker 1: Last one we're doing in this house. The rest of
Speaker 1: your run out is going to be in the tiny home.
Speaker 2: So until then, my friends
Speaker 1: Make sure you guys stay wicked.