WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:04.360 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. 2 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:10.160 My goodness, it's being Frank, where the only way to 3 00:00:10.199 --> 00:00:16.800 be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to being Frank Ware. 4 00:00:16.839 --> 00:00:19.920 The only way to be is Frank. I'm your host, 5 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:22.160 Frank Mbuono, and I'd like to thank you for joining 6 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:25.760 us on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast, 7 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:30.199 where no conversations out of bounds, in all points of 8 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:33.119 view are welcome. You know, we record live to tape. 9 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:35.119 I give you the date so you have some context 10 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:39.159 and relevance. It is the twenty third of April. Just 11 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:41.960 the day before the taping of this episode, we celebrated 12 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:44.920 the fifty fifth anniversary of the first Earth Day, and 13 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:47.119 I have a strong recollection of it. I was a 14 00:00:47.159 --> 00:00:50.359 sophomore in high school and remember the excitement it generated. 15 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:53.320 There were speeches and events not only around the campus 16 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:56.079 but in the country at large. There was a sense 17 00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:58.039 that it was time to stop the damage we were 18 00:00:58.039 --> 00:01:00.719 causing to our environment, and that if we worked at it, 19 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:03.719 we could build a better future for everyone. And we 20 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:05.959 did work at it. Strides were made, while at the 21 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:08.760 same time we acknowledged there was still a great deal 22 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:10.959 of work to do if we were to truly save 23 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:14.480 the planet. Still, one of the things that's always confused 24 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:17.599 me then and still does was getting the greater part 25 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:21.719 of America to understand the urgency of this issue. While 26 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:24.040 we have made gains in cleaning the air and water, 27 00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:27.640 there is a persistent resistance to the notion that poisons 28 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:30.719 remain in our environment that are killing the very planet 29 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:34.239 that sustains us. Particularly galling is the notion that some 30 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:38.719 people still deny that global warming precipitated by the continuous 31 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:42.239 use of fossil fuel is real. It's seen as some 32 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.879 type of political scan aimed at limiting our personal freedoms. 33 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:50.319 This thinking has been exacerbated by an administration that is 34 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:53.599 doing everything in its power to dismantle the hard work 35 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:56.519 gains we made in protecting the earth. They have begun 36 00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:01.480 the process of dismantling the EPA aid in many of 37 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:04.680 the programs that kept us safe. The President even had 38 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:08.039 the country withdrawal from the Paris Climate Cord that would 39 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:11.639 have continued the effort to limit worldwide pollution. But what 40 00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:14.919 can we do well? Our guest took the matter, shall 41 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:18.000 we say, personally, and dedicated his life to the cause 42 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:21.479 of saving the environment. He left a highly successful career 43 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:25.240 in the tech industry to experience life directly in the Amazon, 44 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:29.439 one of the most important endangered ecosystems. By traveling there 45 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:32.800 and living and learning at his own time and expense, 46 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:36.800 that experience transformed him into what a recent article called 47 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:41.159 a global toxic avenger. He became an author and advocate, 48 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:46.960 creating two very influential and successful organizations dealing with environmental issues, 49 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:51.599 especially among poor nations and people. He continues his activism 50 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:55.360 and is currently working on another book to save the planet. Please, 51 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:59.439 welcome to being Frank for some intelligent conversation, mister Richard Fuller, 52 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:02.960 appreciate you. I know you're a busy guy, especially now 53 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:08.280 we just finished Earth Day and it's Earth Awareness Month, etc. 54 00:03:08.599 --> 00:03:09.360 So I'm sure you're busy. 55 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:12.199 Well, it was a really delightful introduction frame, Thank you 56 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:12.960 so very much. 57 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:15.560 Well, it's a pleasure to have you here now. And 58 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:18.319 people they've heard you speak a little hint of an accent. 59 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:21.639 So that you grew up in Australia. Who what were 60 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:24.639 some of your early influencers mentors? Tell us about your 61 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:25.240 life there. 62 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:29.919 I'm a Melbourne boy, so growing up in Australia as 63 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:34.120 an ideal place to be. There's a lot of outdoor 64 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:41.039 sports and recreation. It's not dirty at all. It's a 65 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:45.360 great fun place. And I grew up through my university 66 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:48.960 years and until I was about thirty really just having 67 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:54.520 a great time. So it was around that time that 68 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:57.759 I started looking at what was going on globally and 69 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:01.159 thought maybe I could do something more. And you know, 70 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:04.879 there's a there's this guy out there, Buckminster Fuller. Have 71 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:06.960 you ever seen his stuff? 72 00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:11.400 A little bit? Yes, I had, what's certainly in the name, Yes, so. 73 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:13.840 I had to, you know, read up on him because 74 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:17.879 he's my namesake, though we're not at all related. And 75 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:22.079 somewhere in some of his writings he was saying, look, 76 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:26.000 you only get one life. How big could you make it? 77 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:29.759 What could you do to make it? You know, really 78 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:36.120 really as spectacular as possible? And there I was at IBM, enjoying, 79 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:39.079 you know, the fruits of making lots of money and 80 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:44.360 working in the computer industry, and I thought, Eh, what 81 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:46.120 else could I do that would be more fun than this? 82 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:47.720 What else could I do that would push it a 83 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:50.199 bit further? So that was kind of the start of it. 84 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:55.160 Was there any particular epiphany that you can recall, a 85 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:58.319 moment you know, people see, you know, feels light bulb 86 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:01.000 going off above your head. Was there any a moment 87 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:03.720 like that where you made the firm commitment first in 88 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:07.319 your mind then physically to do well. 89 00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:09.839 It was a little bit like that, but it was 90 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:14.439 more like a moment of saying, look, you know, becoming 91 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:22.680 a senior executive at the white shirt, blue pin striped suit, 92 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:27.720 big us company. Ah, that doesn't feel right at all. 93 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:31.279 So grab a bottle of wine and sit down the 94 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:34.720 kitchen table and start to think of what would be 95 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:37.560 a good life. And I just wrote down a few 96 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:41.360 things that I thought would be a life worth living, 97 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:44.079 and a few things that I really thought I ordered 98 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:47.319 to do. So the fun things were. I thought, I 99 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:50.399 really wanted to go skiing on the West Coast in 100 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:51.720 the Rockies, right, I mean I. 101 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:53.959 Have that in my notes. I was going to press 102 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:54.319 you on that. 103 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:57.959 Yeah, Oh you know, I just love skiing and I 104 00:05:57.959 --> 00:05:59.959 always wanted to see the Rockies. So that was one thing. 105 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:01.639 And then another thing I wanted to do was I 106 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:07.040 wanted to live in a foreign country and learn to 107 00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:11.360 speak a different language. You know, something that very common 108 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:15.079 for Australians. We love traveling, but I really wanted to 109 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:18.120 embed myself somewhere in a different culture and really really 110 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:22.040 do that. And then the next thing is I was 111 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:26.079 hearing a lot about rainforest depletion, so I'm like, I 112 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:28.639 got to find out what's that all about? All the 113 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:34.160 Amazon rainforests, burning beef cattle, all that stuff that you 114 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:37.519 could It was loud, very loud around this time because 115 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:40.720 this is let me see, I was born in nineteen 116 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:45.959 sixty so this was nineteen eighty nine more or less. 117 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:53.319 So that was something that really sparked my interest. And 118 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:56.920 then kind of all of that I thought got summarized. 119 00:06:56.920 --> 00:06:59.240 I thought, you know, I really want to make a 120 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:03.800 difference in the world, at a kind of a global impact. 121 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:06.839 I wanted to have impact beyond just the people that 122 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:11.040 I met. I wanted to improve people's lives, beyond just 123 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:15.519 those that could actually meet and talk to. And so 124 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:19.040 it was something strange like that that I felt would 125 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:20.000 be really cool to do. 126 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:26.160 It's such strange, it's bold. Certainly you mentioned you were 127 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.519 about thirty years old and without you know, prying olderly personal, 128 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:31.839 but were single. What allowed you to be able to 129 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:34.519 do that? I mean if you're committed, if you have family, 130 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:36.800 and it's difficult to say I'm going to take off 131 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:38.879 of the rainforest for six months. 132 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:41.199 Yeah, definitely single. So it's that. 133 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:45.560 Enables so okay, it was important to understand, but that 134 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:50.759 you use that to further something greater than yourself. I 135 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:52.120 think it's fair to say, right. 136 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:53.959 Oh, you know, you have to be single to do 137 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:55.560 you have to be a little bit loco, you have 138 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:59.759 to be a little bit out there, maybe a little 139 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:03.560 bit crazy stupid too to think that you could do 140 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:06.120 things like this, because it's really hard and actually it's 141 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:10.240 mostly leads to failure. So you've got to be okay 142 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:12.240 with a bit of failure to do this sort of stuff, 143 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:12.839 you know. 144 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:15.160 I think that's important to bring up, too, rich as 145 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:19.000 we get back into our direct conversation about the environment, 146 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:21.439 but especially recently, and there were a number of keynote 147 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:24.879 speakers at college graduations within the last year or two 148 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:27.839 who revised their speeches. You can do anything if you 149 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:31.199 put your mind to it, Yes, but then also you 150 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:34.240 should be able to encounter failure. No, these things are 151 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:37.799 hard to do, so to set realistic goals, go for them, 152 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:40.639 but realize at the same time Failure can be a 153 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:42.840 big part of it, and you'll fail many times before 154 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:45.519 it success. Would you tend to agree with that from 155 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:46.840 your experience. 156 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:50.480 Oh, absolutely, Frank. I mean it's I mean you look 157 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:54.320 at businesses. I think more than half of all businesses 158 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:59.000 that have started fail within the first year. And then 159 00:08:59.399 --> 00:09:03.600 the non off it, well, the contributive side of things. 160 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:08.399 It's I think five times harder than business. I've done both. 161 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:12.840 I mean, I've started maybe six different businesses and two 162 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:17.679 of them have been successful. And I've started, you know, 163 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:23.000 quite a few ango processes and really really one and 164 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:26.399 then a second has has actually taken off. It's it's 165 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:31.240 really tough work, not selling someone a product or or 166 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:35.080 a service, but asking people to give their harder money 167 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:38.159 up to do something, to do something that you know 168 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:40.559 you can you can get their passion and inflamed about. 169 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:42.000 It's really tough work to do that. 170 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:46.200 Yeah, we're going to talk in detail about those two organizations, 171 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:50.759 Great Forest and Pure Earth in some detail. But I'm curious, 172 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:54.720 what was your first impression. I've never traveled a bit. 173 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:59.559 I went to China before it was popular. If it's 174 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:03.759 is part there, certainly not to go to China spent 175 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:07.399 a certain sense of adventure, but the rainforest seemed so 176 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:11.320 far away. What was your impression of it when you 177 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:14.879 first got there, Do you remember the first things that 178 00:10:14.919 --> 00:10:15.879 popped into your mind? 179 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.240 Being Well, I spent a lot of time there. I 180 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:21.600 spent a good part of a year coming backwards and 181 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:26.960 forwards to the US and spending a lot of time 182 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:29.919 in very remote parts of the rainforest looking to set 183 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:34.559 up extractive reserves. There are a kind of national park 184 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:41.279 where there's a responsibility given to local inhabitants to self 185 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:44.919 enforce the park. So instead of there being rangers, there 186 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:52.360 is a local arrangement where people who are extracting materials 187 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:55.960 from the rainforest in a way that doesn't cause any damage, 188 00:10:56.440 --> 00:11:00.919 so they're harvesting rubber or brazil nuts. They're also given 189 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:05.679 responsibility to kind of protect the rainforests from from from 190 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:09.240 from real serious destruction. So I spent a lot of 191 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:18.039 time working on setting those particular reserves in place. And 192 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:21.519 I got to tell you, I call it the triple 193 00:11:21.559 --> 00:11:26.000 one hundreds. It's one hundred percent humidity, one hundred percent 194 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.600 of the time, one hundred percent. I've forgotten what the 195 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:31.639 third one is. It's just hot. Oh, it's one hundred 196 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:35.440 degrees one hundred percent humidity one hundred percent of the time. 197 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:41.039 It's just miserable, you know. And you feel so small too, 198 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:44.960 because there's so much insect life around you, not many 199 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:50.200 big creatures. You don't see them. Occasionally there'll be a 200 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:53.320 wild boar that will charge somewhere off in the distance, 201 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:55.799 and there's some quite a lot of birds and bird life, 202 00:11:55.840 --> 00:12:00.080 but mostly it's insects, and you know things that you 203 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:03.200 sit on a log next to a stream you've just 204 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:05.679 traveled for six hours, and you look down and there's 205 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.120 like ten different types of ants and you know for 206 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:13.120 sure that nine of them have never been classified or 207 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:16.759 reviewed by science. And they're not crawling over you and 208 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:17.480 biting you. 209 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:25.120 So sounds lovel that's not great. Oh yeah, it makes 210 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:27.399 everybody want to go. But that leads us to the 211 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:31.879 next question, why is all of that important? Why do again? 212 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:35.000 Part of my job is to play with the devil's advocate, 213 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:37.720 So keep that in mind. Why should we save a 214 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:38.320 place like. 215 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:42.159 Oh, you know that already, but they don't want to 216 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:42.960 hear me say that. 217 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:45.360 Yeah, yeah, you're supposed to hear you say that. 218 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:51.360 You know, it's an enormous amount of biodiversity that's there. 219 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.639 The more important is weather control. Weather management. There's a 220 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:59.240 huge amount of carbon that's tied up there, and once 221 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:04.120 you start to cut it down, it just shifts local 222 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:07.039 and global weather pattern is such an enormous way, So 223 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:10.279 it's a critical it's a critical part of the global 224 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:11.639 global ecosystems. 225 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:17.080 Why do you think people here, particularly Americans. I can't 226 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:19.320 speak for others around the world, but it seems to 227 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:23.039 be fairly common to make the connection that all these 228 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:26.200 things are connected, that the changing weather, et cetera is 229 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:30.240 In other words, damage in a far away exotic place 230 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:34.600 like the rainforest has direct effects if someone like us 231 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:37.639 living in night you're a Nayakar as well, now affects 232 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:42.120 us here in nayak People have a difficulty making that connection, 233 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:45.960 or many people do. Obviously we do, that's why we're here. 234 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:49.639 But as I said in my intro, there's this constant resistance. 235 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:53.159 It's a man made thing. It's not happening, it's not real. 236 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:57.440 Why Why do so many people have so much difficulty 237 00:13:57.559 --> 00:13:58.639 making that connection. 238 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.559 That's a good question, Frank, I really have no idea, 239 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:05.840 and I but the thing is, it's such a long 240 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:08.559 distance away. We all think about our neighborhoods and our 241 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:12.879 family and things that are miles away that are filled 242 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:15.799 with insects. They don't seem that exciting. I don't blame 243 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:19.080 people for not getting that excited. But it's not necessary 244 00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:22.919 for everyone to be worried about the destruction of the 245 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:27.080 Amazon rainforest. It's just literally not necessary. It's perfectly okay 246 00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:29.919 that there are some people who do who can go 247 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:33.240 and do something about it and do it for the 248 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:36.519 public good, for the general public. I don't feel that 249 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:40.120 we need to have everyone in the US have a 250 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:42.279 light bulb switch on and say, oh my goodness, you 251 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:43.799 know I've got to do A and B and C. 252 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:48.000 It's fine, give them, give everyone their voice. 253 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:52.679 Let's talk about the organizations. The two successful ones that 254 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.200 you that you created are the first one, great idea, 255 00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:02.840 Great Forest about recycle recycling in large companies. What was 256 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:04.840 the germ for that idea and how did you make 257 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:07.320 that happen? Well? 258 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:17.960 I I was in the rainforest, working with local organizations, 259 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:22.639 local village people along different rivers in the northern part 260 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:26.279 of the Amazon, on the on the Rio Puruche and 261 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:32.000 the Rio Jurroa and there were a lot of people 262 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:36.360 who didn't really want these extracted reserves to get set up, 263 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:43.519 and they were people who were pretty wealthy, had a 264 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:49.799 lot of say over local politics, but not over the 265 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:54.519 the federal level politics. So my mandate I was working 266 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:59.080 there with the United Nations Environment Program for the Ministry 267 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:04.000 for the Environment at the federal level, but quietly doing 268 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:09.039 this without really interacting with the state or the town 269 00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:13.000 municipalities who were very keen to see economic development, which 270 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:17.639 meant cutting down the rainforest. They had a particular way 271 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:24.240 of showing their dissatisfaction, which involved a cult revolver and 272 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:28.200 paying a guy to go out and whack you. And 273 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:33.720 the going rate was dependent on how how highly placed 274 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:36.000 you were. But you could, you know, you could kill 275 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:39.639 a mayor for maybe a couple of thousand dollars and 276 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:42.960 a peasant for like a couple of hundred dollars. So 277 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.679 someone put a contract out on me. Wow, yeah, it's 278 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:49.600 in my book, Frank, you should read it. You love it. 279 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:55.320 Oh yeah, I'm loving it now. Movie material based on 280 00:16:55.399 --> 00:17:02.240 a true story. It was really down personally. 281 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.359 Yeah, so we were I was in a restaurant and 282 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:09.400 the group of people who were kind of we were 283 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:14.839 kind of working together and uh uh, a guy, the 284 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:17.680 chef comes out of the restaurant and and sus speaking 285 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:21.640 very spot fast and Portuguese, says get out of here, 286 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:23.079 get out of here. And we raced out through the 287 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.160 kitchen and they pushed my head down in the back 288 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:27.799 seats so no one could see me because I was 289 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:33.279 the white Australian, for God's sake, tall and large and 290 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:36.480 you know, in the middle of what's a much smaller 291 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:37.880 body Swadi kind. 292 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:39.559 Of everything there, everything they're not. 293 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:45.440 So these guys came in through the main door and 294 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.359 started shooting out all of the windows and saying, where 295 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:52.000 is the Australian from from the United Nations? You know, 296 00:17:52.200 --> 00:18:00.359 from and organized us, you know United. So so we 297 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:03.920 I grabbed my stuff and I raced down to the 298 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:11.599 to the local airport and found a guy who charted 299 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:14.160 me in his one seventy two Assessina one seventy two, 300 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:16.079 and I just paid him to get me the heck 301 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:18.640 out of town, get out of Dodge. 302 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:24.039 We're talking filmy, I want the rights to this. We're 303 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:29.200 on one record right here, but please continue with this 304 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:30.000 great story. 305 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:35.240 Yeah, so we got in this really cranky old aeroplane 306 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:39.279 and and shot away, and they took me down from 307 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:41.920 this local town in heil Bronco, I think it was, 308 00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:47.079 and then to a place that had a regular serviced 309 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:53.400 a regular flight every day, going back to the de 310 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:56.559 Rio de Janeiro. And I waited a few hours and 311 00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.799 jumped on that and ended that back in Rio, and 312 00:18:58.839 --> 00:19:01.359 then I looked for the first flight to get me 313 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:08.160 to the US and ended up in Miami. So yeah, 314 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:14.599 it was pretty it was pretty intense. And then so 315 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:17.759 I couldn't. I had had done a whole bunch of 316 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:21.519 planning and created a whole bunch of extractive reserves and 317 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:25.960 plans and things, and and I sent them all off 318 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.480 to the to the minister, and most of them actually 319 00:19:28.519 --> 00:19:33.880 got created. So there's a lot of area under park 320 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:36.880 as a result of all this work, but none of 321 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:39.640 it with any you know, credit to me at all, 322 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:42.839 because the other thing that they did was they put 323 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:47.079 out a rumor that I had done something terrible to 324 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:51.880 a young boy. You can imagine, you know. So the 325 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:55.759 minister wanted nothing to do with me, No one wanted 326 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:58.480 to return my call. Was I was just persona non grata. 327 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.359 And this whole year of work was like you know, 328 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:05.680 and I spent on my own money too, So I 329 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:08.359 was proke in New York. 330 00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:10.400 With a contract on your head. 331 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.680 No, don't go back to break but they would they wouldn't. 332 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:16.480 Follow you from the rainforest necessarily, not these guys. 333 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:19.240 You know how they would prove that they've got you. 334 00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:21.799 They would cut off your ear and give it to 335 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:24.680 the guy in a brown paper bag. That was like 336 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:26.599 they would say. 337 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:33.599 That the showtime series, Yeah, how did that ultimately lead 338 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:34.640 you to great forest? 339 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.920 Well, so I needed I needed to have a some income, 340 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:42.680 and and of course I couldn't work for anyone because 341 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:45.119 they didn't have a you know, a visa for a 342 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:50.400 work visa. So I I found a person who was 343 00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:54.000 willing to hire me to help him do marketing on 344 00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:57.400 green products like he had. He had this diaper that 345 00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:00.319 was supposed to be biodegradable, you know, and he wanted 346 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:03.599 also to sell recycled paper and things like that. So, 347 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.240 you know, I was in marketing in IBM, and so 348 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:10.599 I was pretty felt confident to be able to do this. 349 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:12.759 And he was going to pay me twenty bucks an 350 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:14.759 hour or one hundred dollars a day or something like that. 351 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:21.680 So what I did was I incorporated a company and 352 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:28.400 I named it after the Amazon basin the Amazon forest, 353 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:32.079 which is called La Grande Floresta that's whatever, and couser. 354 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:35.119 They didn't call the Amazon, it is lagran Fleest. So 355 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.839 I named the company Great Forest. And this guy paid 356 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.240 Great Forest, and then Great Forest paid all my expenses, 357 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:46.279 like my rent and everything else. And that's how I 358 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:50.400 got around, and eventually Great Forest sponsored me for a 359 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:53.079 work visa, so then I could pay myself and actually 360 00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.960 pay taxes to That happened after about six or eight months. 361 00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.480 And what was the connection with Great Forest? Ultimately I 362 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:01.799 understood and from all of the research that I did 363 00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:06.319 with recycling and getting larger companies to participate, is that correct? 364 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.400 Right? So what it does and it's still around a 365 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:16.799 large successful company now, is it looks at large office 366 00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:21.319 buildings and big corporations fortune five hundred size and helps 367 00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:24.160 them to set recycling and that helps them to manage 368 00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:27.440 all the contracts with the garbage hole is the recycling, 369 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:30.079 and so like all of that and keep all of 370 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.920 that intact and tight, and then helps the companies prepare 371 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:37.160 all of the statistics that they need for their own 372 00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:39.640 corporate records and things so. 373 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:42.119 Yeah, you know, which we never think of. That is 374 00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:45.440 you know, we were a consumer and disposal for making 375 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.279 that up society. But you know, we take it, we 376 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:51.480 put it somewhere, and it's gone without giving a lot 377 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:54.799 of thoughts of the process of removing that for the 378 00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:58.759 better or for the worse. It's for us, it's just God. 379 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:01.519 But it's fascinating to see how much is involved with 380 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:04.480 getting it gone and getting it in a way that 381 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:08.559 it's it's not harmful, it could possibly be even beneficial. 382 00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:12.039 But let's continue. Be aware of the time from Great 383 00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.640 Forest you left and then you started another organization that 384 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:19.440 you have involvement with. You started in one capacity and 385 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:21.400 you have a new capacity. But let's talk a little 386 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:23.799 bit about Pure Earth. How did you what is it? 387 00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:27.480 When did you found it? And tell us about it? 388 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:28.559 What is it about? 389 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:35.039 Well after about about let me see, now, about fifteen 390 00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.519 years of Great Forest and it started to really be successful. 391 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:40.640 It went through that early phase of hard, hard work 392 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:45.960 without much returning and eventually by this time I married 393 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:50.000 with a couple of gorgeous kids and have a nice 394 00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:54.680 house in Tuxedo Park. You know, so living the good 395 00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:58.799 life and you know, doing doing good things and the 396 00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:05.279 staff of twenty people plus or so. But it was 397 00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:08.000 a bit dissatisfying in the end as well, because it 398 00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:10.920 wasn't satisfying those things that I wrote down. I wasn't 399 00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:14.720 making a difference because when you look at recycling, it helps, 400 00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:18.279 it helps your carbon footprint, but only a little bit. 401 00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:22.400