WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:04.320 You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from 2 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:06.240 KFI AM six forty. 3 00:00:10.359 --> 00:00:12.759 KFI. It's Later with Moke Kelly. We're live everywhere in 4 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:16.839 the iHeartRadio app. Let's talk about special effects. Fawn Davis, 5 00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:19.440 who has been a previous guest on this show, is 6 00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:23.239 an alum of Lucasfilm worked there for ten years, worked 7 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:27.239 on some of the biggest franchises known to cinema. Fawn, 8 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:30.640 very quickly run down some of the franchises that your 9 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:34.439 work is seen in. Oh boy, yes, Star Wars, Star Trek, 10 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:38.399 Jurassic Park, Terminator. See, that's why I asked him to 11 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:42.799 do it a lot, Transformers over forty five feature films today. 12 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:47.240 Oh my goodness, yeah, forty five feature films to date. Also, 13 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:51.039 you are featured in Light and Magic season two, which 14 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:55.520 is streaming right now on Disney Plus. Very quickly, let's 15 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:59.280 quickly review how you even got into special effects. 16 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:02.159 For me, it was I was always driven to do 17 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:04.840 it so And it's funny because in Light and Magic, 18 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:07.680 I actually break down the whole story and they got 19 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:13.599 pictures of me as a child even because yeah, yeah, no, 20 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:17.000 I was in grade school, elementary school. I saw Star Wars, 21 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:19.239 and you know, I thought it was good like everyone else. 22 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:22.519 But what really changed my path was seeing one of 23 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:25.560 those behind the scenes books and seeing that they were 24 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:29.239 model makers working, and I'm like, that's a job. 25 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:31.040 I want that job. 26 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:33.799 For someone who may be listening, they may think special 27 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:36.439 effects is only CGI. They're not of the age where 28 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:39.560 they remember the model making the practical effects that you 29 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:43.040 specialized in. Even today, Yeah, what does that consist of 30 00:01:43.079 --> 00:01:43.680 these days? 31 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:44.879 It's the same. 32 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:48.079 We just we use a lot more technology and everything 33 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:50.200 that we do with a lot of the end results 34 00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:52.680 of our work is still physical objects. 35 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:54.200 It's like still CAD design. 36 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:57.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, we do. Yeah, everything starts in the computer. 37 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:00.280 Now we do use three D printing a lot more 38 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:02.879 than we have in the past. Even when those came out, 39 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:04.879 it was still just another tool. But now we're really 40 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:08.520 leaning in that pretty heavy CNC machines. We use those 41 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:11.080 quite a bit too. They've been around for that is 42 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:17.280 it's a computer controlled cutter. Basically, CNC's well, the technology 43 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:19.879 can drive a laser, it can drive cutters, it can 44 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:24.719 drive vinyl cutters and all kinds of devices, but CNC 45 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:29.560 is specifically machining. Most of the time we use it 46 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:31.280 for carving foam. 47 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:34.879 For your job. What is the most important skill set? 48 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:37.800 Is it someone who is good with their hands, or 49 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:42.159 is this someone who's creatively brilliant and can see and 50 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:45.639 have things materialized from their thoughts. What is it? 51 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:50.080 I think it's a combination of dexterity and attention to detail, really, 52 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:53.039 because if you have an extreme attention to detail, like 53 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:55.800 most of our artists, you really can focus in on 54 00:02:55.840 --> 00:03:00.479 what makes something look real, you know, and no matter 55 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:02.400 what scale you make it. So we do miniature as 56 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:05.280 we do the reverse. We do oversized things. 57 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:10.599 We do a lot of of course, real life sized objects. 58 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:13.240 Our studio specializes in unusual. 59 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:17.159 Things sci fi fantasy, yeah fhon Co Studios, and we. 60 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:19.840 Still do a lot of practical but we also work 61 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:24.199 directly with teams that are using virtual production and using 62 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:29.159 computer graphics, and actually within the industry we do specify. 63 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:31.439 Special effects are the effects that you do in front 64 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:34.360 of a camera and the visual effects of the effects 65 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:36.919 you do after photography, like in post. 66 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:39.960 Yeah, so that's that's the major difference between those two. 67 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:43.960 And we do special effects for visual effects, you know, 68 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:46.879 you just blow them on mat. Tell me this when 69 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:50.439 you're doing something for a Star Wars property, whatever that 70 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:52.360 may be within that known universe. 71 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:54.319 How much information are. 72 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:57.280 You given or you're just told we need this star 73 00:03:57.400 --> 00:03:59.439 destory to look like it's coming over our head. 74 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:01.840 One is you know. 75 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:06.960 Samilar With They're usually really good about giving you enough 76 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:09.840 to go on, but you're also expected to and it's 77 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:11.800 my favorite part of the job. You're expected to make 78 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:14.319 some stuff up. You might get a piece of concept 79 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:17.160 art that shows one side of an object, you know, 80 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:18.920 and then you have to figure out what it's going 81 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:21.360 to look like on the back and all the sides 82 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:23.360 and the parts that aren't visible to camera. 83 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:25.399 How were in the in the illustration? 84 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:28.600 Excuse me? How often are you tasked with creating something 85 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:33.360 an effect or a model, something that has never been 86 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:35.680 done before and you have to just go home and 87 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:37.680 work shop it every day. 88 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:40.040 It's my favorite part of the job. 89 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:41.199 Give me an example, please. 90 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:44.319 It's well, just you know, we'll start a project and 91 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:46.800 the majority of the time clients come to us and 92 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:48.720 they want to do something that's never been done before. 93 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:52.480 That's what every director, every storyteller wants to do something new. 94 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:56.319 So we'll have a meeting with them and after the 95 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:58.560 meeting is done. You know, we get our team together 96 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:00.639 and we start talking about how we actually going to 97 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.720 achieve the design or the effect needed. 98 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:07.959 If you're running the team, and I know you've had 99 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:11.519 vary levels of responsibility over the course of your career, 100 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:15.319 how closely are you working with a Steven Spielberg, a 101 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:18.079 George Lucas or any prominent director. 102 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:19.639 It varies wildly. 103 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:24.120 You know, I'd say I've worked with directors more in 104 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:27.839 pre production when we're trying to flush things out. Once 105 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:31.079 you get into production, the special effects team, like as 106 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:34.079 a model maker doing design work, you work really close 107 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:36.759 with the director, and then once the production happens and 108 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:39.240 it balloons out to two thousand people, a lot of 109 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:43.360 times you're working with visual effects supervisors that are working 110 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:47.720 with directly with the director and or maybe a production designer, 111 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:53.240 so they really have an army of like people to 112 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:54.720 complete these movies. 113 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.839 Especially these days, because you'll have two thousand visual effects 114 00:05:57.839 --> 00:05:59.439 shots in a movie. It's not uncommon. 115 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:01.879 Have you ever on into a project thinking like, I 116 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:03.680 have no idea how in the hell we're going to 117 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:06.120 do this, And then on the other side, wow, we 118 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:07.240 really pulled that off. 119 00:06:07.639 --> 00:06:10.199 Every time? Yeah, we never know what we're gonna do 120 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:13.480 before we start a project. You always can tap into 121 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:16.199 the things that you've done before, but because they're asking 122 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:18.800 you to do something new and different every time, there's 123 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.839 only so much you can reach towards in your history 124 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:25.360 to create something new, So you have to just lean 125 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:28.040 into your you know, tools materials technique is what I 126 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:31.399 always always go to, but it's it's a lot of 127 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:34.720 there's a lot of testing involved, you know, we always 128 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:37.560 have a whole thing. And I share this with younger 129 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:40.439 people especially. You shouldn't be afraid of failure, but I 130 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:44.759 do prefer to fail in private. And what that means 131 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:47.319 is if you're running a company, you do all your 132 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:50.839 tests when the client's not around, and then you have 133 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:52.800 that way when you go into a meeting, you can 134 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:54.759 show them what works instead of waste of time on 135 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:58.399 things that didn't work. Also, if you're you know, even 136 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:00.759 when I was working at high Ale Amazon model Maker, 137 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:01.920 when I was. 138 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:04.120 Industor Light and Magic for people don't know, yes. 139 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:05.160 Correct, Industrial Light Magic. 140 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:09.000 So when I was in their model shop and if 141 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:11.160 I could see on the schedule that I was going 142 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:13.439 to be asked to do something I've never done before, 143 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:15.560 I would actually go home. I would study it and 144 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:17.759 I would do it in my garage, so that when 145 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:19.600 I got to the point where they asked me to 146 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:24.160 do it, I looked like a pro and they never 147 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:26.480 knew that I'd never done it before because I did 148 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:29.480 all my failure at home. I think studying at home 149 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.600 is underrated. I think that just approaching life as a 150 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:37.240 student is a really great tool to aid in failing 151 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:37.839 in private. 152 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:42.279 Jing Right now in studios front of the show Special 153 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:47.160 Effects and Visual Effects Wizard Fawn Davis. His company's Fonco, 154 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:50.199 and we talked about visual effects and special effects in 155 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:54.120 this segment. But there's also a robotics aspect to your career. 156 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:56.959 Some may know you as a former judge for the 157 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:00.360 show BattleBots, one of my favorite shows. You know something 158 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.319 about that world of technology as well. Can we talk 159 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:05.240 about that when we come back? Yeah? Absolutely, all right, 160 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:07.319 let's do it. It's Later with mo Kelly. Fon Davis 161 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:08.160 joins me in studio. 162 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:12.439 You're listening to Later with mo Kelly on demand from 163 00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:14.800 KFI AM six forty. 164 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:17.600 It's Later with mo Kelly live everywhere in the iHeartRadio 165 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:19.040 app and if you're just tuning in my guests in 166 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:23.439 studio Von Davis of fon Co Studios. He is a 167 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:27.360 visual effects special effects wizard. He has been in the 168 00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:29.720 game for I don't know, thirty five forty years at 169 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:30.360 this point, is that ak? 170 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:32.200 Yeah, yeah, a little over thirty five years. 171 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:35.919 Also, I know of you as a former judge for 172 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:39.440 the show battle Box. You know a little something about 173 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:43.279 robotic technology. You are also a participant and competitor at 174 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:48.360 one point. Yeah, when you look at robotics today, where 175 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:49.879 do you think that is going? 176 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:50.840 And where are we? 177 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:54.120 Where would you put us in the spectrum of a progress? 178 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:57.320 A progression? Oh, it's pretty funny. 179 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:03.720 Because I work in robotics, I actually see a I 180 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:05.919 actually get really frustrated because I expect us to be 181 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:08.279 moving a lot faster with the technology than we are. 182 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:11.879 And you see a lot of promises since the eighties. 183 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:15.480 Really we've been promised to robot to go grab as 184 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:19.799 strings from the fridge, right, I'm still waiting for it. 185 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:21.399 But don't we kind of have that the way we 186 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:24.639 have the little roombo which will clean the room. I 187 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:28.639 mean we have robots on a smaller level. We do 188 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:29.759 household items. 189 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:32.440 We do and you could classify some of the technology 190 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:35.440 that we use for fabrication, or three D printers as 191 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:37.960 little robots. I feel like the three D printers in 192 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:42.720 particular feel like robot helpers. They'll work when you go home, right, 193 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:47.360 just great. But I still really want to see just 194 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:50.559 me personally too. I want to see more consumer robots 195 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:53.960 beyond the rumba, you know, okay, something something that can 196 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:57.440 actually like you see a lot of experimentation happening with 197 00:09:57.600 --> 00:10:01.720 humanoid robots right now, like Boston Dynamic, Yeah, Boston Dynamics. 198 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.519 Tesla's got a robot. There's a lot of. 199 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:06.000 Companies in China creating these humanoid robots. 200 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:10.200 But it feels like, you know, I've just learned to 201 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:12.600 kind of recognize this through the years about technology. 202 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:14.159 It seems like they've hit a bit of a wall. 203 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:16.919 If they've hit a wall, let's combine what we were 204 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:18.919 talking about last segment with this segment. 205 00:10:19.159 --> 00:10:20.559 Let's talk about cinema. 206 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:23.799 How close are we to the world of eye robot 207 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:27.200 for example? How close are we to I don't want 208 00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:29.879 to say the terminator, but you know, how close are 209 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:35.120 we to that humanoid assistant or presence in our homes? 210 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:36.200 Yeah? 211 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:39.039 I think that's the wall that's been hit. You know, 212 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:41.440 there's a lot of stuff happening with AI, and of 213 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:45.720 course AI is going to be a fundamental core component 214 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:51.200 of humanoid robotics in our daily life. I think, you know, 215 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.679 I feel like the label AI is being slapped on 216 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:58.559 a lot of things is just software. You know, chatbots 217 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:02.519 has been around forever, for example, true, now chatbots are AI. 218 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:06.240 You know, it's like l M is another term that 219 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:09.639 has thrown out their language learning models. Yeah, where more 220 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:12.879 than software is software that evolves in its own space. 221 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:17.039 Yes, yeah, but I think I think there's more, there's 222 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:20.120 more programmers involvement than most companies want to. 223 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:22.879 Kind of reveal. 224 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:27.720 Because speaking again, this is just my perspective on all 225 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:29.720 of it, because I do a lot of work in technology, 226 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:35.399 it feels like there's a lot of protecting the companies 227 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.559 in you know, so they can get investment. Whenever there's 228 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:42.799 a lot of investment in new new technology, there's an 229 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:48.159 incentive for technology companies to kind of exaggerate their success 230 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:50.600 their successes and to hide their failures. 231 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:52.240 Okay, let me let me jump in there because we 232 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:56.519 have an ongoing discussion on the show about self driving vehicles, 233 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:01.039 autonomous vehicles, robotaxis, that's not the hugeoid robot, but I 234 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:06.360 would say that's the combination of AI and also robotic technology. 235 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:08.399 If you were to get in a way, moo, where 236 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:12.159 do you see that aspect of technology going. That's I 237 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:15.279 feel like WEIMO has already brought us there. I think 238 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:18.399 it's just a matter of time for or driverless vehicles 239 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.960 to be to become more commonplace. Okay, let's talk about 240 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:26.120 cinema and also this. When I think of self driving cars, 241 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:29.000 I think about movies like of course I robot. I 242 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:34.000 think of the fifth element. I think of what other 243 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:38.720 ones minority report, all sorts of examples in cinema where 244 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:42.600 we have this self driving technology, is it that we 245 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:46.879 do not have the infrastructure to accommodate it, or is 246 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:49.720 the technology not quite ready. 247 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:50.519 For consumer use? 248 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:53.759 I think for something as sophisticated as driving a human 249 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:57.000 form like a humanoid robot, the technology has got a 250 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:02.559 long ways to go. A car is weirdly much much 251 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:06.039 more simple in terms of the math that is required 252 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:08.919 to operate it. Not saying it's simple, but it's more 253 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.799 simple than driving a human body, you know, hands, fingers, 254 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:16.559 oh so in other words, just the you know, awareness 255 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:17.919 of the surroundings. 256 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:18.360 You know. 257 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:23.759 The road is a confined kind of formula, you know, 258 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:27.919 but but you step into what humans encounter in a 259 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:28.559 day and. 260 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:30.159 It becomes a lot more complicated. 261 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.519 So we're not going to have Johnny Cab like in 262 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:38.879 uh Total Recall, where you have the humanoid driver, but 263 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:41.080 we will have the autonomous vehicle. 264 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:43.759 I think you could end up with a human just 265 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:45.720 to make people a humanoid robot. 266 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:50.360 Attached to a car, but it's not actually driving a car. No, no, 267 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.080 probably not well, and you wouldn't need it, you know. Uh, 268 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:56.879 it's always funny to see science fiction, even in Star 269 00:13:56.919 --> 00:14:00.919 Wars some cases, you know, robots drive vehicles when the 270 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:04.080 vehicles themselves can be robots, and they have some of 271 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:07.559 that too. But I think to make I think robots 272 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:09.159 are going to be utilized a lot more just to 273 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:12.799 make people feel comfortable, you know, because because a humanoid robot, 274 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:16.320 the anthropomorphic design is going to lend itself to people 275 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:18.279 being more comfortable with technology. 276 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:18.600 See. 277 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:23.960 I feel actually less comfortable with seeing that anthropomorphic humanoid 278 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:27.000 thing because you can't get the facial expressions right, that 279 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:28.879 the eye contact focus right. 280 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:32.519 It just seems oh disconcerted. Yeah, yeah, I don't mean like. 281 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:36.960 One to one human copies that kind of like replicants 282 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:37.840 from Blader on or anything. 283 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:39.840 Keep going. I'm thinking more like. 284 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:43.159 I'm thinking more like, you know, you look at the 285 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.639 robots and it looks at Johnny five, okay or Wally right, 286 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:51.279 you know those there's like this short circuit Johnny five right, 287 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:55.159 right exactly, And and those robots really connected with people. 288 00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:57.480 But if you take a robot and you make it 289 00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:00.679 try to make it look human, like literally really human, 290 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.120 then it just gets creepy. 291 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:04.240 Yeah, it does. 292 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:09.879 And I know some countries they do have the humanoid human, 293 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:14.200 you know, trunck facing, like in Japan they will have 294 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:18.279 like the concierge, which is supposed to be human presenting robots. 295 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:19.480 And that's unsettling to me. 296 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:22.240 That is, yeah, And I think that's the that's one 297 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.399 of the walls that this technology is going to hit. 298 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:29.399 And I mean that from not just the robotics side, 299 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:32.519 but just AI in general. Just the idea that you 300 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:37.000 can you can mimic humans, but to copy humans is 301 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:38.919 a whole different thing. 302 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:41.440 When we come back, I want to go now further 303 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:46.080 down this AI path. We talked about special effects, visual effects. 304 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:49.039 Now we talked about robotics and how it's going to 305 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:51.559 be integrated with AI. I want to have this conversation 306 00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:53.600 with you about where we are with AI and where 307 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:55.759 you expect it to go in five ten years. 308 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:58.279 If you're just tuning in, My guest is Fon Davis. 309 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:01.240 We started off talking about the second season of Light 310 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:05.240 and Magic, Season two, which is now streaming on Disney Plus. 311 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:08.279 Fon Davis is promintly featured in all three episodes. He 312 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.519 is an alum of Lucasfilm more than ten years in 313 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:14.679 the special effects and visual effects Wizard. When we come back, 314 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.360 when we get into a Hi, it's Later with mo Kelly. 315 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:19.879 I Am six forty Live Everywhere in the iHeart Radio app. 316 00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:24.480 You're listening to Later with Mo Kelly on demand from KFI. 317 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:35.720 AM six forty is Later with mo Kelly Live everywhere 318 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:36.799 in the iHeartRadio app. 319 00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:41.559 My guest in studio is Fawn Davis of fon Co Studios. 320 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:45.279 He is a visual effects a special effects expert. He's 321 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.519 worked on every major franchise in cinematic history. 322 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:49.919 I'm not really exaggerating. 323 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:52.120 He could run him down, but we would be here 324 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:55.360 all night and at the beginning of our conversation. We 325 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.799 were talking about his involvement in the show Light and 326 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:02.320 Magic and it's in season two. All episodes are now 327 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:06.559 streaming on Disney Plus, talking about special effects, visual effects, 328 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:09.920 and in this conversation we touched on that. We touched 329 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.599 on robotics and its future according to Fawn, and now 330 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:16.000 I want to get into where we are as you 331 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.319 see it fonn Davis with AI and where we're headed. 332 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:22.200 Let me couch it like this. More and more discussion 333 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:26.279 is being had about the singularity, the point where AI 334 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:31.559 surpasses human intelligence and becomes capable of self improvement. You know, 335 00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:35.920 it's just it doesn't need us anymore. From where you sit, 336 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:37.880 from what you know about robotics, from what you know 337 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.960 about AIK, how close do you think we are and 338 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:44.920 what implications might that be? 339 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:48.680 I don't know if I feel like this is probably 340 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:51.319 not a popular opinion right now, because people really really 341 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:56.000 love touting the achievements of AI, and they should be rightly. 342 00:17:56.119 --> 00:17:59.119 So it's come a long long way and it's really 343 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:04.119 hit some huge mind milestones this year. But but in 344 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:07.200 my opinion, I think that they've like I said, I 345 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:11.279 think they've hit a wall in terms of like the singularity. 346 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:12.799 I just don't think we're anywhere near it. 347 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:17.119 I often draw a graph, and this is actually referring 348 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:20.640 to visual effects. Like you know, one percent of the 349 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:24.640 work is creating a shot. Ninety nine percent of the 350 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:28.200 work that you put into a shot is making it 351 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:31.319 look real. So one percent is to create it, ninety 352 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:33.359 nine percent is to make it look real. And I 353 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:35.799 think that that AI is right now is at that 354 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:36.400 one percent. 355 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:39.240 Let me push back on that big conspiracy theorist for 356 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:43.400 a second. I remember seeing satellite photos from the nineteen 357 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:46.920 sixties which were very advanced, and I would say maybe 358 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:51.119 twenty thirty years ahead of our consumer level access to 359 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:54.319 satellite photos that we take for granted now on our GPS, 360 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:57.279 for example. I say that to say, I'm quite sure 361 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:02.359 the military is way beyond our consumer level consumption of AI. 362 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:04.079 And might that change the equation? 363 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:09.279 No, Okay, I don't think so, because, like I said, 364 00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:11.920 I I think that we're scratching the surface. 365 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:12.640 I really do. 366 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:15.759 And a good example of that is if you look 367 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:18.799 at was it vo Vo three from Google just came 368 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:20.680 out with a bunch of new videos. I watched a 369 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:22.279 bunch of those on my phone and I'm like, oh 370 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:24.720 my god, they did it. They did it, And then 371 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:27.799 I went home and I brought I put it up 372 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:28.599 on my big television. 373 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:30.160 So I'm sorry to interrupt you when you say they 374 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:33.279 did it, they passed at. 375 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:35.720 Well, no, they just they in their piece of technology, 376 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:39.559 they've created audio and video in AI of humans that 377 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:42.759 look on my phone, they look pretty good, pretty impressive. 378 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:44.960 But then when I put them up on my television, 379 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:51.000 the mouth, mouth shapes are weird, the eyes do weird things. 380 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:54.680 It's it's the same thing that Visual Effects has been 381 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:59.039 struggling with for decades, trying to make you know, computer 382 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:02.839 rendered humans look real. They've they've come a long way, 383 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.039 and they get really really close, but it's it's just 384 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.119 uncanny and weird looking, and I think it'll continue to 385 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:14.000 be there for quite a long time. I'm predicting decades 386 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:18.920 before AI can actually generate believable human beings, and I 387 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:21.759 could totally be wrong, but I just I've seen this 388 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:26.480 so many times, the promise of a technology solving something like, 389 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:30.680 you know, human performances, and I just I just don't. 390 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:33.039 I don't buy it. I don't buy it. 391 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:35.319 All right, let me ask this then, as you know 392 00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:40.119 as a cautionary tale, what is the worst case scenario 393 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:44.119 from where you sit as far as the use or 394 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:45.279 implementation of AI. 395 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:48.799 Well, obviously, because I work in visual effects, I mean 396 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:49.640 the worst. 397 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:50.400 Case would be there. 398 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:53.759 Okay, okay, Well, well we know it's going to replace 399 00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:56.400 people's jobs. We know that, and yet it will and 400 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.599 it has and I think, but I don't. 401 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:07.160