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Speaker 1: What's up, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask Paul,

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the podcast where you get to ask me Paul Abernathy

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anything you want about the National Electrical Code and all

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things electrically related. On today's episode, we are going to

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talk about a Facebook post, and this was talking about

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an air conditioning unit outdoor HVAC unit that a guy

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did a service call on. Wasn't the original installer, but

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he came back to solve an issue of a unit

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that kept tripping the breaker and he came back and

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actually did what he was supposed to do or whoever

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the original person was supposed to do and fix the

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day and posted that on Facebook and it literally got

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two thousand and eight hundred comments. Dude, I post something

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and I get hardly any comments. This guy posted this,

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and you would not believe the sheer number of people

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that have posted comments to this. And so that's what

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our topic is going to be on today, So hopefully

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you stay tuned for that. But before I do that,

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I do have to mention that if you're trying to

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learn the National Electrical Code and you're struggling with it

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on electric exam, or you know somebody who really needs

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to learn the NEC, whether it's for their job or

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at a higher level, then do me a favor. Send

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them to our website fast tracks System that's fast t

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X S Y S, T e M dot com. Do

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me a favor. Be a warrior of change. Send people

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to that website. Let them know we have courses that

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will teach you the National Electrical Code. I've been doing

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this for over thirty eight years, served on Code Panels

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five and seventeen. I've written numerous documents and books on

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the National Electrical Code. I've served on various committees all

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over the country help develop code. I want to be

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your mentor. I want to help you learn the NEEC.

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Whether you're preparing for an exam where you just feel

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like you don't have the knowledge that you should have

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on the National Electrical Code. I want to be that

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person to help you learn it. We also do Wednesday

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nights every two weeks. We have a session where you

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can ask me questions. It's a one on one. I

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say one on one, but there's numerous people in the room.

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Only fast Tracks members and those that are subscribers on

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fast tracks Tube are allowed to be at these events,

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and the floor is open. You know, sometimes I do

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a lesson, but other times, you know, if you're studying

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in our program and you say, hey, I've got a question,

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that's a perfect time to ask that question so that

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I can answer that question for you. Okay, So that's

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what you get if you join our fast Tracks family.

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We're excited about so many changes that are coming up

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in the next couple months as we move our transition

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to our corporation from Texas to Virginia. So I'm excited

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about it, and you can too by joining our family,

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getting a fast Tracks program, or even subscribing to fasttrackstube

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dot com and watch some of our videos. We appreciate

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your patronage. All right, enough of that, let's get into

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the day's topic. So this is a post, and it

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was over on Facebook, of all places. I don't do

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a whole lot of the social media thing anymore. I

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try not to get engaged in it because again, it's

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just very depressing for me to see the stuff that

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gets posted. And I can't educate every everybody or try to,

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and then everybody wants to pound their chest because nobody

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wants to admit they're wrong. Even when I bring the

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goods and I always bring the code work. I already

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always bring the references. So anyway, I just it's it's discouraging,

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although it kind of one of those things that make

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you think, well, your your job as an educator's probably

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never done because it just continues to be stuff all

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over the internet. Sorry about that, fixed my mind. Okay,

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So with that said, I kind of told you what

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was what was going on. So the guy posted this

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picture of a nameplate of an outside air conditioning unit

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HVAC unit, and he said, originally it was installed with

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a ten to two non metallic sheet cable into the

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back of a disconnect. We'll just go with that. And

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then it changed over to I guess liquid tight or

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whatnot down to the unit, and it had thhhn thhwn

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dash too ten gauge and that as well, so we

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had ten to two n M and then after the

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disconnect it changed over to thhn thhwn dash two ten

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gauge down to the actual air conditioning unit. Okay, so

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that was done originally, not by this person, but originally

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the installer, and the customer was saying that it just

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kept tripping off, kept tripping off, so probably when it

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tried to start the end Russia just kept tripping off.

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Why because the original installer put in thirty amp circuit

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breaker and then instead of using it, pull out disconnect.

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That sounds like they used to fuse disconnect. And he

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had thirty ant fuses in there as well. A little

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wasted money there, because all you needed was a disconnect.

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You didn't need to have it be fusible. But that's

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not for me to decide, and everybody's got to do

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their own design, right. So anyway, that's what was going on.

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So the installer was called out to determine why it

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keeps tripping, and so when he got there, he happened

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to look at the name plate, and the name plate

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reads minimum circuit capacity of twenty nine point four ampiers,

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maximum fuse or circuit breakers, so you have the choice

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of fuses or circuit breaker involved here it said maximum

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fuser circuit breaker fifty amps. And so he looked at

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it and noticed that there was a thirty amp breaker

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protecting the circuit, and so he switched it out for

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a fifty amp over current protective device. In the course,

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I think he had to put fifty ant fuses in

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the disconnect because that's what was there. It wasn't just

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a pullout disconnect, it was a fusible disconnect. So now

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everything runs perfectly fine. Everything runs good, It handles the

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in rush, and air conditioning runs like it's supposed to run,

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because the gentleman that came out for the service call

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actually followed the name plate. Whereas the original installer tells

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me that he did not understand the concepts of two

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forty dot four G for conductor size for conductor protection.

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He didn't understand part three, part four in part six

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of article four forty as referenced in two forty dot

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four G under the small conductor rules. So he didn't

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understand any of that. So all he saw was, Hey,

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i've got a ten gage. Three ten dot sixteen says

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it under the sixty degree column, which he knows that

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non metallic chef cable was limited the sixty degree column.

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Then three thirty four dot eighty says that no need

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to use the ninety because there's no adjustment or corrections

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taking place here, so they're just using the sixty degree column.

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And so so he said, you know, there's that little asterix,

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a little asterix in three ten sixteen says, go to

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two forty four D and D says, if it's ten gage,

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you protected with a thirty by the being by the boom, right,

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And that's what he did. Well. Obviously that didn't handle

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the the n rush and it kept causing the breaker

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to trip on the air conditioning units. So this gentleman

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went out there, looked at the name plate, astutely saw

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that there was something wrong and fixed the day and

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made everybody happy. So but here's the deal. Here's the deal.

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Here everything up to this point. We can go look

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at the code and dissect it out, and we will

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just at the end of this podcast, because I don't

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want to be a long one, but I want to

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explain something. This is the problem with social media. Two thousand,

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eight hundred people commented on this. This guy's picture of

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his name plate that clearly shows minimum circuit ampacity twenty

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nine point four amps, maximum fuser circuit breaker fifty amps.

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So he had a ten to two non metallic sheet

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cable and it's rated under the sixty degree column three

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ten sixteen. It's good for thirty amps. He put a

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fifty am breaker, that's what the name plate says. So

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he's following the manufacturers and structures. It's perfectly fine. And

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anybody that understands overcurrent protection knows that that fifty amp

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is going to be short circuit ground fault protection, it's

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perfectly fine. In fact, in a fault condition, the current

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is going to go so much higher than that fifty

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amp that you ain't got to worry that fifty is

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going to trip. That's not a problem if you understand

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the concepts of overcurrent protection and how it works, not

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going to be a problem. In as far as circuit apacity,

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we're allowed to deviate from the small conductor rules to

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protect that ten gauge conductor. We're allowed to deviate from

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that and to be able to do so. Now here's

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the thing. That conductor is even sticking to the sixty

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degree column, Like I said, even sticking to the sixty

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because it's non metallic yet cable. A ten gage is

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good for thirty amps, so it easily can handle the

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twenty nine point four amps. Not a problem. When it

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comes to the circuit opacity. It's not a continuous load.

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You don't treat it as such. That doesn't even need

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to come into play. So everything is considered okay. At

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this point, and you look at the comments and again

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over two thousand and eight hundred comments, and some of

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the comments are quite embarrassing. They would be embarrassing for

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an electrician to post some of the things that people

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literally and they post it with such conviction, right like,

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they post it with such bravado, you know, talking crap

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to the person that originally come you know, the original

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poster with such vibrato and and and disdain, only to

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be wrong. And it's it. I'd be embarrassed to actually

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do that. I really it's it's embarrassing to read half

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of them, but they're there. Okay, So uh So anyway,

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one of the things that that people ask me all

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the time is they go, Paul, where do you get

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the rules? Uh in the code here? Where do you

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get the rules for the conductors for HVAC? Where do

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they come up with the nameplate data? Where do they

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get all this stuff from? Okay, so most of the

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stuff that you'll see that you get from the data

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is going to be back in four. And for example,

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for brand circuit, short truck and ground off fault protection,

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they have part three and you know what that starts

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at full forty dot twenty one, and it goes through

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full forty dot twenty two. Uh. And it continues on

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and then you get to part four, which is the

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circuit conductors, and you get that information there. Uh. And

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all of this information uh in four forty dot thirty

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two for single motor compressor. All of that is the

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information that the manufacturer uses to determine and create their

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data plate. And you got full forty dot thirty three

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that talks about motor compressors. It's in four forty now,

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which is for HVAC. Right, it's air conditioning refrigeration equipment

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Article four forty It says motor compressors with or without

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additional motor loads. So at the end of the day,

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this is the information that's utilized, okay, in order to

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create the name plate. Right, So think about it, folks,

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the brand circuits and you're dealing with the listed air

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conditioning refrigeration equipment that they have this name plate marked

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with the brand circuit conductor size in the brand circuit

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short circuit protective device size. Okay, And at the end

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of the day, all of that is right there on

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the name plate. And as I tell people, you're not

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required to go using four three to do any sizing

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because the product standard already has been done, and the

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product standard is including an additional twenty five percent increase

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for the largest motor or compressor in the group, plus

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the other non motor or non compressor loads, so that

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actual name plates full load ampere for the complete assembly

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can be used to size the brand circuit conductors. You

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don't have to do anything. It's done for you. So

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you don't have to go to full forty dot thirty three.

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You don't have to go looking up all those rules

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that are in H Part four for forty. It's all

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done for you. It's already there. Now, some of the

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interesting comments that we see in this thread that's over

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on Facebook, and I apologize. I would post in the

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comments where it is, but I can't find it again,

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so that's why i'm You know, I did take a

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screen capture, but I didn't do enough of it to

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get the actual original poster's name. Otherwise I'd go hunting

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it down. But this is a Linux unit and it

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is all the data information is there. And the comments

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were saying things like, oh, well, you better call the

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fire department because that's going to burn down the house

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and all this kind of stuff, and it literally blows

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my mind and it tells me that people don't understand

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how HVAC systems work, the compressor works, the short circum

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and ground fall protection. They don't understand the concepts here,

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and they probably don't know the small conductor rule and

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how you can deviate from it for like motors and

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HVAC equipment and other applications. They probably don't understand that

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that it's real common to see a fifty anp breaker

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protecting a thirty amp rated wire and they get confused.

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And the reason they get confused is when you look

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at it, once you get past that sudden rush, it's

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now going to drop back down and it's going to

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be fine. And so I think that's where people just

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look at these and they're so used to the small

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conductor rules, right, which if you're just running a regular

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brand circuit in the house and it's a fifteen AM circuit,

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you know that's fourteen gauge. Your twelve gauge is good

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for twenty ten for your dryers for example, good for thirty.

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They see those type of things and they go, well,

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that's what I'm used to. But when you see these

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things like for HVAC applications and for forty or applications

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for motors in for thirty, all of which when it

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comes to protecting the conductors, you're allowed to deviate from

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the small conductor rules based on two forty dot four D.

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And then it's telling you to go to G if

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the small conductor rules don't apply to your general application.

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In other words, if you have motors, HVAC equipment and

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all that kind then you can deviate from it. And

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you have to understand how that works. And again, podcasts

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is not a great way to do that. Again, I

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encourage you to get in a program, a structured learning program.

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If you're one of those one ones that posted something

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in two thousand and eight hundred comments over on that Facebook,

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then I encourage you. If you're in the trade and

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you're licensed, those are some fundamental things. And I'm not

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being mean. I'm just saying those are fundamental things. And

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if you look into your deep, into your soul and

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you don't understand how that works, you don't understand conductor opacities,

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you don't understand the sixty seventy five and ninety degree.

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If you don't understand how to do the ambient corrections

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right and follow the rules in three ten dot fifteen

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B one one. If you don't understand adjustments in how

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to make an adjustment in three ten fifteen C one.

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If all of that confuses you, you really do need

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to take a step back, because instead of being just

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an electrical worker, I need you to become an electrician.

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And doing so means you're going to have to continue

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your education. Okay, and continuing education is not free. It's

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not something that you can go hunting for and try

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to get the knowledge. You have to have people that

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have put this together. And that's what I've done. I

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put together a structured training program to teach you the

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National Electrical Code. Now we have a course. It's called

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Mastering the NEC. It's not for exam prep. It's to

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simply learn the NEC. It's like putting an expert in

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your pocket because that course never expires. You can access

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it on your mobile phone, on a tablet. It's got

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great illustrations, great call out. You can always use it

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to go back and do a reference. I'm encouraging you

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folks out there, if you're in social media, stop posting

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the garbage about stuff you know nothing about, but you

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know what, take it as an opportunity to learn, and

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I'm here to teach you. Okay, okay, So hopefully you

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got something out of today's episode. Again, this is a

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post that was over on Facebook. Remember you, folks can

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always send to me questions at Paul Abernathy dot com.

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It's so easy to do. All you got to do

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just go to you on your phone. If you have

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our mobile app, there's an actual go down in the

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down in the uh let me see here. I can't

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remember where it is on the mobile app, but you

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go down into the mobile app and you click on

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the mobile app, and when that comes up, you actually

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go down to a button it says resources. Click on

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resources and it's the very top button. It says code questions.

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You click it and you're right there and you just

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fill out the form. It's that easy from your phone, dude.

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I'm just looking at it though. Dude. We got calculators

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for box fil Racewood feel arc Flash calculations. Dude. We

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got everything in our mobile app. Huh. I didn't realize

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I had all that crap in our mobile app. That's awesome. Anyway,

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Until next time, folks, stay safe, God blessed. I hope

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you learn something in today's lesson, and again be informative

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and and learn the code the right way. Stop propagating

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falsehoods or what you believe somebody said validated by asking

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somebody and getting real knowledge on the NEC. That's the

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only way we're going to make this trade better. Until

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next time, folks, Stay safe, God bless