WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:10.599 You see something's going to happen. What what's going to happen? 2 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:12.960 I think. 3 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:15.519 What? 4 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:26.440 I bet that you help. Welcome to the occult Rejects. 5 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:31.519 Today's episode is for anyone tired of witchcraft esthetic and 6 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:34.159 ready for the real thing. Folk magic as culture, not 7 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:37.000 as a trend or a reason to cause play on Instagram, 8 00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:39.359 but as a set of practices that grew inside real 9 00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:44.799 communities under real pressures weather, hunger, disease, war, birth, death, 10 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:48.439 and the constant need to protect the home. But before 11 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:50.439 we introduce the guests and other panelists, there's a few 12 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:53.799 things I would like to mention. So yes, this coming 13 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:56.320 April twenty fifth, Saturday, April twenty fifth. 14 00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:56.880 Twenty twenty sixth. 15 00:00:56.920 --> 00:01:01.119 Obviously, we have the twenty twenty six Southeastern Masonic Symposium 16 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:04.680 and that is happening in Asheville at the Asheville Masonic 17 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:09.400 Temple at eighty Broadway Street in Ashwell, North Carolina, and 18 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:12.239 Ike Baker and Colin and a few other people will 19 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:14.400 be there. I will be there, so come on down 20 00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:17.120 you can check it out. The keynote speaker will be 21 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:20.280 John Michael Greer. He is a prolific occult and esoteric 22 00:01:20.359 --> 00:01:24.040 historian with seventy plus book books, including Circles of Power 23 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:27.319 in the award winning New Encyclopedia of the Occult. And 24 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:30.879 he's also initiated across the Hermitic, Masonic, and Druid lineages 25 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:34.560 and former Grand Arc Druid. Then we have Colin Concrede, 26 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:36.319 who has been on the show before. If you haven't 27 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:38.560 checked it out, I suggest to check it out. And 28 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:41.079 he is a creator behind American Esoteric and he is 29 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:46.719 focused on ancient philosophy and comparative Narra comparative religion. And 30 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:49.040 he is also publicly listed as a massa mason and 31 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:51.719 a writer. And then we have somebody that you've seen 32 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:53.719 on this show plenty of times and he's a fan favorite. 33 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:55.959 We got Ike Baker, and he's an independent scholar and 34 00:01:56.159 --> 00:02:01.359 esoteric instructor. He's a practicing ceremonialist and initiate initiatic Mason. 35 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:04.560 He is the Blue Lodge plus York right, also connected 36 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:06.959 with Martinism and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, 37 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:09.639 and he is the host of the Arcanum podcast and 38 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:12.400 you've seen him here plenty of times. And then last 39 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:14.319 but not least, they do have Tom Carter and he 40 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:16.599 is a brother out of Mount Herman Lodge number one 41 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:19.439 eighteen in Ashram, North Carolina, and he will be speaking 42 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:21.719 on I don't know they didn't list it, but uh yeah, 43 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:24.800 come down check it out. I will be there definitely. 44 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:27.560 I might be filming stuff, so when I'm that busy filming, 45 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:30.120 I can definitely hang out, but definitely come down and 46 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:30.599 check it out. 47 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:31.520 It should be a good time. 48 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.120 And another thing I do want to just mention before 49 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:36.039 we do get to the guest, we have the Occult 50 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:37.960 Research Institute dot org. 51 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:40.280 That is our website for the ocult rejects kind. 52 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:42.759 Of and there's a lot of stuff on there to 53 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:45.319 read if you're into reading. A lot of episodes that 54 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:47.919 I've done in the past has been turned into readable 55 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:50.919 form on there, and eventually I will be adding to 56 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:53.120 the website. If you're interested in it now, you can 57 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:55.599 always dm me. We do have t shirts for sale. 58 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:58.719 We do have one with the skeleton. Sometimes you see 59 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:00.800 somebody on the show where it oh myself with the 60 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:02.400 X hands and then the one that looks like the 61 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:03.919 Birth of Aphrodite or the. 62 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:04.599 Birth of Venus. 63 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:06.719 He could check it out dm me if you want 64 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:08.400 to check them out to see what they look like 65 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:12.159 they are twenty five dollars shipped. Total twenty five dollars 66 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.280 at your house. So if you're interested, please let me know. 67 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:19.199 And now I am done talking and our guest is will. 68 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:23.159 Before I introduce the guest, let me introduce June Judith 69 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:23.599 de Loon. 70 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:25.000 What is going on? Judith? How are you? 71 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:28.080 And we got my man Jewels, the handsome hyrafant. What 72 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:29.199 is going on in Mississippi? 73 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:29.479 Misstic? 74 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:31.240 Hey, what's going on? Nick? 75 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:31.599 Guys? 76 00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:34.879 I'm Jewles, host of the Gray Pill podcast, host of 77 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:36.960 a couple other shows. Me and Headless have the Rust 78 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:40.400 of Gods show we do on the Occult Rejects, also 79 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:43.639 Gods of the Morning. Would and uh yeah find me 80 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:46.360 over on x at gray Pilled pod and Patreon if 81 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:48.960 you want to support the Showpatreon dot com says great 82 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:52.080 pul podcast and also printify for some merch gray Pill 83 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:55.759 dot Printify dot me. I had some Asunga Saka shirts. 84 00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:58.439 Gods of the Morning would merch a bunch of cool stuff. 85 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:01.719 Just put a hand of Sabasias shirt on that. So yeah, 86 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:03.280 go check it out. I'm very excited to be here, 87 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:09.120 very excited to learn from Joanna. I've been kind of 88 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:12.479 stoked about this all week subject matter. So thank you 89 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:15.840 Nick for inviting me, and it's been the old fellow rejects. 90 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:17.759 Hell yeah no, thank you for making it, sir, And 91 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:19.839 we got Brandon Magas in the media. 92 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:20.680 What is going on? 93 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:20.879 Sir? 94 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:22.920 How are You's up? 95 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:23.279 Crew? 96 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:27.000 So excited to be here. Thank you Nick, Thank you team. 97 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:30.079 I love being on every panel and all the time. Joanna, 98 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:31.639 this is going to be fire. I'm so excited to 99 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:33.279 hear what you got to say. Everyone just go to 100 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:37.759 Magas in the media, X YouTube, subscribe, I can share Instagram. 101 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:41.040 We're throwing out clips all the time, breaking down everything 102 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:43.839 in the world through a mythmagic and meaning, let's get it. 103 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:46.399 Welso, thank you so much for making it. 104 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:48.319 And last week I least the Headless Giant and we 105 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:50.120 got Beans with them too, What is going on? 106 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:52.600 How you doing? 107 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:56.000 You can catch Beans' podcast on my podcast on Thursdays. 108 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:58.439 We show a mail bag where you can send in 109 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:02.439 your cult slash essenteric stories and you can email those 110 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:04.720 to me at the Headless Giant Podcast at gmail dot 111 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:07.160 com and you can find me on X and YouTube 112 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:10.720 and on insacrap too, so check those out. 113 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:13.040 Thank you awesome, Thank you very much, sir. 114 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:18.519 And finally our guest is we've got Joanna Tarnovska screwing 115 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.160 that up tried my best known too many through her 116 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:25.120 work as Polish Folk, which she describes herself as an animist, 117 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:29.199 folk practitioner, writer, and psychologist living in the mountains of 118 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:33.759 Lower Fight pronounce thiss right Celicia Poland, where her practice 119 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:37.879 stays intentionally bioregional, tied to local landscape, local stories, in 120 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:41.079 the rhythms of the traditional year. She's the author of 121 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.759 Polish Folk Magic and Ancestral Law and Traditions of the 122 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:49.040 West Slavs, published through Crosscrow Books. Who was nice of us, 123 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:52.600 nice enough to put me in contact with her, and 124 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:55.079 that is a work that frames Polish folk magic through 125 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:59.680 the lens of traditional cosmology, spirits and Allies, protective and 126 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:04.439 heal charms, and the agrarian calendar, with an emphasis on 127 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:08.720 the difference between modern reconstruction and what actually survives in 128 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:12.560 practice and record. And what makes this conversation worth doing, 129 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:15.279 especially if you care about history, is that Polish folk 130 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:20.879 practice sits at a crossroads pre Christian Slavic inheritance, centuries 131 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:24.360 of Catholic devotional life and a deep reservoir of vernacular 132 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:30.360 ritual technology, blessings, thresholds, spoken formulas, seasonal rights, where the 133 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:34.079 boundary between religion and magic is more often about who's 134 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:38.000 labeling it than what people are actually doing. So thank 135 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:40.959 you very much Johanna for joining us. Please let everybody 136 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.480 know everything about you or whatever you'd like to advertise 137 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:43.879 a plug. 138 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:47.319 Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm really 139 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:51.360 stalk to have this conversation today with your folks. You 140 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:53.680 pretty much already introduced me, so I'm not going to 141 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:56.759 be you know, adding much to that. All I can 142 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.240 say is that if you folks enjoy our conversation to day, 143 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:03.319 you can find me pretty much anywhere online under the 144 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:07.120 name Polish Folk, which I also teach online, especially via 145 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:11.920 patron about folk magic, animism and traditional craft. So if 146 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:15.839 you enjoy my yapping tonight, then yeah, check me out. 147 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:19.519 That's it awesome. Thank you much. Thank you very much 148 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:20.560 again for coming on, Joanna. 149 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:23.600 Like I asked all my guests on this type of stuff, 150 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:26.680 when did you find yourself interested in this type of life, 151 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:28.639 for this researching this stuff. 152 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:32.639 It's been a long while, you know. I'm in my 153 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:37.160 mid thirties at the moment. And I have to say 154 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:41.199 that what drew me to magical practice in general and 155 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.959 occultism all of that is that from a very very 156 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:49.759 young age, actually I had experiences with spirits and I 157 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:52.399 needed to figure out how to deal with that, how 158 00:07:52.399 --> 00:07:56.600 to understand what I was experiencing. So in my teens 159 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:01.000 I got into magic and occultism. It wasn't folk magic 160 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:06.839 straight away. Straight away, I did explore various paradigms and approaches, so, 161 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:09.319 you know, being here and there you could say over 162 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:13.680 the years, but folk magic is eventually what I arrived 163 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:17.759 at and where I you know, ultimately felt at home. 164 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:23.839 So awesome, thank you very much. Some of the earlier 165 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:25.800 things was one of the early things into before we 166 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:27.639 get into folk magic, just wondering. 167 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.560 Oh, you know, the thing is that the things that 168 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:34.679 were available at the time in Poland where I lived, 169 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:39.080 is essentially what got me started. And at that time 170 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:47.320 this was mainly like ceremonial magic, chaos magic, you know, telema, 171 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:51.080 that kind of stuff. I did research that and practice 172 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:54.039 that for quite a few years. But then over the years, 173 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:56.679 you know, you can kind of see that the evolution 174 00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:59.720 from that. It's a long stretch to folk magic. Right, 175 00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:03.240 So I could say that my path was maybe upside 176 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:05.720 down to some of the folks I usually talk to about, 177 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.440 you know, starting with the stuff that's close to you 178 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:12.879 and then expanding into the broader kind of occult scene. 179 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:14.960 You could say for me, it was kind of the opposite, 180 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:16.360 so kind of funny. 181 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:19.679 One thing I want to add, when you were more 182 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:21.759 into you mentioned the limo, which could be you know, 183 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:24.639 and you mentioned ceremonial magic. I think, I mean, that's 184 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:27.039 all that could intel a lot of stuff. It could 185 00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:29.519 be a very take you an hour to do something. 186 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:32.919 Did you you know, did you go to that extent 187 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:34.200 when you were practicing that stuff? 188 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:38.519 You know, I was never really initiated into any orders 189 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:42.559 or like formally being introduced into that. So it was 190 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:44.559 mainly like, you know, the kind of stuff you can 191 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:47.679 do based on sources that are available, not very in depth. 192 00:09:47.799 --> 00:09:50.360 Looking back at it now from my you know, much 193 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:53.799 more experienced advantage point today. 194 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:54.759 I mean, were you like busting out the ritual, the 195 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:56.559 pentagram and all that stuff and the hexagram to do 196 00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:57.159 stuff now? 197 00:09:57.240 --> 00:09:59.879 Yeah, pretty much you know, like the LBR. 198 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:02.200 P Okay, all right, So now my other question there, 199 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:03.799 I guess to follow up on that is what you're 200 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:06.200 into now seem like a little bit not as uh 201 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:07.200 not as detailed. 202 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:12.960 Ah, you know, that's depends depends how you see the stuff, right. 203 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:17.799 I think a lot of it is dictated by the 204 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:21.919 perception of how stuff works, and that I think makes 205 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:25.879 a huge difference in what is meaningful in terms of 206 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:28.240 the craft that you do. So over the years, you 207 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:30.399 could say for me, it was a lot of shedding 208 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:34.000 of the things that at first felt really cool to explore, 209 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:36.720 you know, and all of that, but over time became 210 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:40.960 unnecessary and I found more meaning in a more simple practice. Actually, 211 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:43.120 so it all kind of depends on you know, the 212 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:46.240 journey itself determines a lot of how we end up 213 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:48.720 engaging with magic. 214 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:51.559 What do you think about the lima? 215 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:54.919 Do I have to answer. 216 00:10:57.919 --> 00:10:59.279 Really bad? I guess you can. 217 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.320 It's all right, I mean no, no, not not really. 218 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:03.600 It's just that it's really not for me. I do 219 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:06.759 have friends who are initiated into auto and you know 220 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:08.960 that kind of stuff, and I have huge respect for 221 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:13.120 everybody from all walks of the craft. So it's not 222 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:15.320 like I have bad things to say. It's just that 223 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:20.320 for me, and especially also having you know, professional background 224 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:23.480 in psychology as well. I find a lot of that 225 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.120 approach to be very deeply psychologized, you could say, right, 226 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:30.519 depending on how you approach it. I think in Poland 227 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:36.519 that's the main way that it's approached within auto especially right. 228 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:40.519 So it's definitely not not for me, not something that 229 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:42.360 I like to entertain personally. 230 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:44.679 But that's quite right. I was in the OTO for 231 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:46.879 about five years and I didn't like it anymore. Left myself. 232 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:49.960 I could definitely say it, but I'm not gonna go there. 233 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:56.759 But so I understand pretty much. Yeah, yeah, all right. 234 00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:59.679 So I guess, I mean, you got this book. What 235 00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:01.399 is it with this book that you wanted to try 236 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:03.600 to I guess what was the reason that you wrote 237 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:06.320 this book? What do you think that this book has 238 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:09.639 the author that other books maybe on this subject matter doesn't. 239 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:14.879 HM. Well, the one thing that it offers that maybe 240 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:17.879 is not as present out there, or wasn't up until 241 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:21.360 this point, is the perspective of a local, of somebody 242 00:12:21.399 --> 00:12:24.240 who actually lives here and has been you know, born 243 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:28.919 into this culture and you know, living within it, Whereas 244 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:31.720 up until this point, most of the sources you can 245 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:34.960 see out there when it comes to like Slavic magic, 246 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:37.879 Slavic witchcraft, that kind of stuff is usually from the 247 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:42.080 perspective of an outsider. So I really wanted to put 248 00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:45.120 my perspective out there, just for the folks and especially 249 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:49.080 for the folks of the diaspora, to have something to 250 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:53.120 compare to essentially what things look like here, the kind 251 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:56.639 of you know, perception of the world that our ancestors had, 252 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.440 what shaped Polish folk magic, why it were, the way 253 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:03.759 it works. I feel like those aspects are often lacking 254 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:07.480 because frankly, many of the sources that we have here, 255 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:09.720 and many of them are academic as well, you know, 256 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:13.080 they were never translated to English, so this knowledge is 257 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.840 just not out there, and the locals also haven't been 258 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:21.559 haven't really been heard much up until this point either. 259 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:24.919 So I'm really glad that I was, you know, given 260 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:27.919 the opportunity to have a platform to actually put my 261 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.279 own book across, you know, on a global market, for 262 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:34.879 people to be able to engage some of this stuff 263 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:37.320 and maybe learned about some of these aspects for the 264 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:41.159 first time, because some of them were never seen before 265 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:45.039 on the you know, English scene. You could say. So, yeah, 266 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:48.200 I think why I wanted to write this book though, 267 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:50.799 because you know, I was really hesitant, to be honest, 268 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:55.919 it's a huge undertaking to be taking my entire culture 269 00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:00.840 and somehow packaging it within a single book like that 270 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:04.879 feels very reductive. Right, We can all probably agree it's 271 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:10.399 it wasn't easy. So and I'm somebody, yeah, and I'm 272 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:14.679 somebody who really hates to put misinformation out there or 273 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:18.240 to be like reductive, you know. So yeah, I was 274 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.919 really hesitant. But ultimately, you know, I've worked with a 275 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:23.399 lot of folks of the diaspora, people who learn from me, 276 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:29.799 and they were just so encouraging towards this happening and actually, 277 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.080 you know, them being able to access this. So they 278 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:36.320 encouraged me to write this book and make it available 279 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:38.919 for them so that they can access these you know, 280 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:43.320 ancestral traditions in maybe more like down to earth authentic 281 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:48.039 way without this romanticization you could say of you know, 282 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:51.519 this land far away where their ancestors migrated from and 283 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:53.679 all of that, because you know, there's a lot of 284 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:55.360 misinformation out there essentially. 285 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:58.960 So yeah, before before I. 286 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:01.559 Ask anyblse if they have something to ask, there was 287 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:04.200 just something that like your answer kind of touched on 288 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:06.720 three other questions, But one of them I do want 289 00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:08.799 to ask, because you've mentioned the word a few times already. 290 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:12.360 You're right with Theosporia and mine, what are the biggest 291 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:15.240 mistakes you think practitioners make when trying to go Slavic. 292 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:20.039 Yeah. I already kind of touched on this, but I 293 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:25.639 think it's romanticization really of just kind of having this 294 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:30.679 idea of what was out there or of this ancient, 295 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:34.039 unbroken line of tradition coming all the way down from 296 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:39.200 the pre Christian pagan practices. A lot of that is 297 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:45.759 really not factual or frankly made up, and so yeah, 298 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:49.919 I feel like that's but that's nobody's fault really, I 299 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:53.399 think also because if you, you know, you wake up 300 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.080 one day and you're like, Okay, I have Slavic ancestors, 301 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:58.919 and I would love to reconnect with this culture and 302 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:02.559 there you know, approaches to life, their craft, their beliefs, 303 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:07.120 all of that. You probably begin by trying to look 304 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:10.480 for some information out there online, and it's really hard 305 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:14.320 for folks who don't know our languages to be able 306 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:17.399 to discern what's actually legit versus what really is. And 307 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:20.600 so you know, a lot of the as you asked 308 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:23.480 mistakes just come from the fact that it's not easy 309 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:27.159 to access information straight away that would be a good 310 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:31.399 base for all of this, right, So I would encourage 311 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:35.559 people who are trying to maybe get into this to 312 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:40.840 explore their ancestral roots and our cultural traditions, to try 313 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:45.159 and look for people who are locals. And it's not 314 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:47.879 just me, like, I'm so happy to see more and 315 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:52.200 more people actually from the broadly speaking Slavic you know, 316 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:56.120 regents and countries getting out there and creating content or 317 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:59.519 writing books in English. So there's more and more legit 318 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:02.039 information out there. So if you're looking, and if you 319 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:05.839 really are serious about exploring this, try to learn from 320 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:09.839 the locals first, ask them what are some you know, 321 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:12.920 legit sources so you don't get into you could really 322 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:16.799 get into some nasty rabbit holes with the with exploring 323 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:21.039 this stuff. So yeah, yeah, thank you. 324 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:24.880 I was gonna say, as an unabashed romanticizer of pre 325 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:30.359 Christian history, it's really interesting to see in Lithuania a 326 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:34.680 reconstruction movement going on right now that is having a 327 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:37.440 lot of popularity. I mean, it's it's almost like the 328 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.920 national religion at this point of removal, and I'm seeing that, 329 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:43.240 and I'm like, wow, this is you know, they're actually 330 00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:45.799 turning back the clock. They're going past the point of 331 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.160 the Northern Crusades and actually exploring the pre Christian roots. 332 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:52.000 What are your thoughts on these reconstruction movements going on 333 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:53.799 in Slavic paganism. 334 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.279 Mm hmm. I can mostly speak to the ones I 335 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.599 observe here in Poland, since that that's thing that I'm 336 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.440 most familiar with. I can't really speak to Romova because 337 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.039 I'm not informed enough to be having an opinion, to 338 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:11.039 be honest, but I can see and honestly, I was 339 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:13.880 also saw years back at a point where I was 340 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:18.680 deeply into exploring this as well, this pagan reconstructionism, and 341 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:23.440 in Poland this is called rogimovistvo or rodnovari, which is 342 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:29.440 basically meaning native faith. Right. I see that people are 343 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:33.440 really craving this pre Christian connection to their own culture, 344 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.640 and that stems from the fact that's growing up we 345 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:41.119 are not taught about it at all. Like the history 346 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:44.400 of Poland, for example, is thought starting from the moment 347 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.759 that Poland was baptized as a country, and that's where 348 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:53.079 we begin as the people. Right, So people at some 349 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:57.480 point who may be you know, take a step back 350 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:03.039 from Catholicism, which is the main religion, are disappointed and 351 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.599 are looking for something older, something that feels really ancestral 352 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.680 and ancient and deep in their blood. You know, it's 353 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:12.839 a craving that just goes very deep, and that's where 354 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:17.559 those reconstructive movements come in and they fill that hole. 355 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:21.440 And you know, of course I respect the people who 356 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:25.440 are into that. I have been participating in some of 357 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:30.720 their rituals and practices, not as a formal member, but 358 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:35.079 mostly as an outsider. It's not for me personally, I 359 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:37.759 have to say that, because I don't feel personally the 360 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:43.720 need to sterilize our folklore off of the folk Catholic elements. 361 00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:46.119 For example, I just don't need that because I dealt 362 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:48.440 with my own religious wounds and it doesn't bother me. 363 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:51.960 But I also completely understand people who just can't stand 364 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:55.000 that and they need to be rid of that and 365 00:19:55.880 --> 00:20:00.640 try to practice something that is as close in their eye, 366 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:04.119 at least to something that was here in the pre 367 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:08.079 Christian times. I respect that. I think it can bring 368 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:11.680 a lot of healing, a lot of personal development, and 369 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:14.680 I think it's just good for a community. Also. On 370 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:18.799 that you know other level as well, because these communities 371 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:23.240 of worshipers you could say, who are mostly like you 372 00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:25.920 could see them as polythias, right, they are really close 373 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:29.559 knit communities who are doing something really cool together. So yeah, 374 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:32.240 I think it's really cool that we can see that 375 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:36.279 being more prominent today, and that slowly, because I don't know, 376 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:39.400 that's not maybe something that people would pay attention to 377 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.559 in like the US or Western countries, but here it's 378 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:45.880 a big deal that it's slowly becoming accepted actually, because 379 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:50.359 like a decade or two ago, that would be completely 380 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:54.279 socially just unacceptable for somebody to come out as a 381 00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:57.079 pagan or something like that, right, So yeah, it's cool 382 00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:59.720 that we are seeing this just becoming normalized. 383 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:04.559 Yeah, I do have a question for you because here 384 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:08.480 in the US we do have a lot of folklore magicians, 385 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:10.759 if you want to call them that, and I come 386 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:13.880 from a culture that also has that when it comes 387 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:14.599 to folklore. 388 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.319 Though, as you did your research, did. 389 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:20.799 You find that a lot of how can I say, 390 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:28.799 nationalized habits, whether they be in Catholicism or Christianity or 391 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:34.640 Orthodox were actually folk magic themselves and they became regular 392 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:37.960 to you where it became normal as you did your research, 393 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.799 because I found that out, even though you venture out 394 00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:42.599 into ceremonial magic and everything. 395 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.799 It's like you look at people from. 396 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.119 The who's talking you from the outside, and you're like, 397 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:50.480 how is this not normal to you? Because this is 398 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:54.319 normal within our culture. Because I have to admit I 399 00:21:54.440 --> 00:21:59.799 was surprised that there's Polish folklaw, but I have a 400 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.559 My significant other is Slavic and a lot of things. 401 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.920