WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:16.160 Get get ready for July sixteenth, twenty twenty five, allegedly 2 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:19.440 according to that thing we call a calendar, this Woden's Day, Wednesday, 3 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:21.679 middle of the week, hump day, whatever you want to 4 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:24.440 call it. And we're doing a double live show on 5 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:30.879 the stream now, two completely diverse topics for sewer and 6 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:33.520 in the first hour we're gonna be talking to Larry Hancock. 7 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:36.960 Of course, go to larrydash Hancock dot com. If you 8 00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:40.159 have listened to my show before, you're familiar, and you 9 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:42.439 should be familiar with the fact that I highly recommend 10 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.399 all of his books. But gotta tell you a special 11 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:49.600 place for not only things like in Denial and I 12 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:52.119 don't know, Creating Chaos and a few other things that 13 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:56.240 are oh so oh maybe not relevant to today's news, 14 00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:01.000 right chuck, he said sarcastically as I read my own 15 00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:05.120 parenthetical commentary. The thing is this, Larry's got a lot 16 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:07.079 to say, and he's usually ahead of the curve, and 17 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:09.760 I love that. Plus he's a responsible historian and if 18 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:11.280 you don't know it, you need to know it, So 19 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.120 go get the books. The Oswald Puzzle is the latest 20 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:16.840 and the one that I highly recommend in the future. 21 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:18.680 I might want to talk to Larry about Joean Mellon 22 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:21.359 a little, but I did a two part tribute to 23 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:24.560 her already on this show, so not today. We have 24 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:27.879 other things in the news, and indeed I'm going to 25 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:30.640 get to it and again go to larrydash Hancock dot 26 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:32.840 com and any one of Larry's books you don't already have, 27 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:37.280 go get it. Anyhow, back to the subject at hand. 28 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:39.879 The fact is I had Jefferson Morley on this show 29 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:42.519 long time ago, and I used to follow them when 30 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:45.040 all I was doing was reading things like Deep Politics 31 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:49.200 Quarterly and gee, what was that other thing, the Crosswinds 32 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.000 or whatever? I forget what it was called. And you 33 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:57.079 know different magazines out there, zines, in general newsletters, etc. 34 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:01.359 Email chains. You know, was even on the Vince Landria 35 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:05.079 email chain for a minute, although my name wasn't on it. 36 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:07.959 It was actually somebody else's and I ended up inheriting it. 37 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:11.159 Strange story there, Maybe someday I'll tell it. But the 38 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:14.879 point is I've been involved in the community a long 39 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:17.919 time and one of the things that we learned very 40 00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:21.199 early on was that there was this guy, George Joannides 41 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:26.560 who got sent to the hsca as a liaison from 42 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:29.960 the CIA. Why because they needed one, They needed to 43 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:34.639 communicate with the agency during the investigation. I'm speaking in shorthand. 44 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:37.240 If you're not a JFK person, you might not be 45 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:40.759 savvy on this, but trust me, you might get that 46 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:46.120 way because it's been in the news. Anyway, back to it. 47 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:50.120 Jefferson Morley, who was a journalist and still is a 48 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:52.840 journalist of sorts, but is also now the I think 49 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:55.639 he's the vice chair of the Mary Farrell Foundation, et cetera, 50 00:02:55.719 --> 00:03:03.560 et cetera. Anyway, Jeff is a published author, highly respected 51 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:08.120 in the community, et cetera. But he sued the CIA 52 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:10.759 and most famously was turned down on his last go 53 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:14.080 round by Brett Kavanaugh. Even you know the guy who's 54 00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:17.000 on the Supreme Court. Now, yeah, that Trump judge said, now, 55 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:19.639 you're not getting the CIA files on this guy. Joe Needes, 56 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:22.960 who was the liaison to the HSCA, who was involved 57 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:26.240 in the DRE, who was maybe privy to some things 58 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:30.240 about Oswald, et cetera, et cetera. Big mess, big lies, 59 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:33.479 lot of stuff there. We in the community knew that 60 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:36.360 Jeff was right, but he kept suing the CIA, trying 61 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:39.360 to get him to just give over their documentations, whatever 62 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:43.120 is left of it, and they wouldn't budge, and he 63 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:45.280 kept going to court, and kept going to court, and 64 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:50.560 kept going to court. And now recent transparencies allegedly have 65 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:55.039 finally freed the Joe and Edes files. Now are they 66 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:57.840 all of them? Are they part of them? Are they 67 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:00.680 more than what we had before? Are they a bit 68 00:04:00.759 --> 00:04:03.719 beyond the bootleg bits that did float around when people 69 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:06.360 got a hold of documents they weren't supposed to, not 70 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:09.439 because they were international spies or anything, but because it 71 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:14.000 was such a nightmare at NARA or the National Archives 72 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:15.879 that sometimes you got a hold of things you weren't 73 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:18.680 supposed to do, and also they changed the rules about 74 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:20.560 things you were supposed to get hold of it. At 75 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:23.959 one point, indeed, you didn't know if you had declassified 76 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:27.319 or classified documentation in your hand at a certain point 77 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:32.120 in JFK research history. But put all that confusion aside, 78 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:34.439 we may have some clarity. We may have a new 79 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:38.519 revelation and confirmation of what it is we've suspected for 80 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:40.959 a long time, what it is that Jeff Morley has 81 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:43.120 said for a long time, and what it is that 82 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:47.439 CIA and the government in general has denied and obfuscated 83 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:53.439 and completely obstructed about regarding freedom of information and this 84 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:58.839 character George, Joe, and Ed's now Larry. That is my 85 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:01.839 quick summary, and I'm trying to be as objective as 86 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:05.519 possible here. But the fact is the government lied to us. 87 00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:08.959 We knew they lied to us because we knew about 88 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.920 Joe and Eades, but we didn't have the files to 89 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:16.160 confirm certain things. And Jeff was the crusader, was the 90 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:19.480 guy who in the government was going after it seemingly 91 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:24.120 as a journalist slash author slash researcher for years and years. 92 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.360 I mean indeed I had him on after the case 93 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:32.120 was virtually dead but then resurrected once again in twenty 94 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:36.120 fourteen or fifteen somewhere in there. So ten years ago, 95 00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:38.399 I'm talking to Jeff about a case he had already 96 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:42.480 been at for a while, and yeah, we knew that 97 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:45.439 this was what it was. But now we've got some 98 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:51.120 new documentation and it has made some headlines. So I 99 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:53.720 just want to throw it on the table. Maybe I'm 100 00:05:53.959 --> 00:05:57.879 all wet regarding this, right they used to use that phrase, 101 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:00.480 you're all wet, like you don't know what you talking about. 102 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:04.120 I don't know how you're you're wet and confused at 103 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:07.079 the same time. But then again, if I think back 104 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:09.279 to parties as a teenager, I could I can imagine that. 105 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:14.399 But anyway, Larry, and you've been in the military, So anyhow, 106 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:17.759 what are we talking about here? I mean, the Joe 107 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:22.040 Needy stuff is finally, at least in part release, do 108 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:24.800 we do we have what Jeff was suing for for years? 109 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:27.319 And in that case, do we end up with a 110 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:31.360 big yawn because we knew all this or is there 111 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:34.839 something new in it? Is there? I don't know. There's 112 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:36.480 a lot to be said and a lot to be 113 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:38.759 looked at. And quite honestly, I haven't done my own 114 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:42.399 analysis of this yet, so I'm not going to make 115 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:45.519 any solid declaration here, but maybe you could. What have 116 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:46.079 you seen? 117 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:47.160 What do you know? 118 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:50.120 And have I given this a fair introduction? 119 00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:52.120 Yeah? 120 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:54.959 At you And we've been beating this David, and I've 121 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:57.600 been beating this back and forth with David the last 122 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:00.759 few weeks as it is, anyway, just kind of trying 123 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:03.560 to see what he's getting, what it means, that sort 124 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:06.639 of thing. I think. I think one of the fundamental 125 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:09.759 things is this takes us back to something that Peter 126 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:13.879 Dale'scot came up with decades ago, which is the concept 127 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:18.720 of a negative template. You know, if somebody is trying 128 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:22.000 to hide something from you, and somebody is smart and 129 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:26.439 somebody has a lot of control, they will mean, they 130 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:31.000 will destroy things, they'll move things around. And if you 131 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:35.439 if you expect to find something that the CIA has 132 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:40.160 been hiding from you since nineteen sixty three, and something 133 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:44.600 that's so explosive that they chose to do that for 134 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:48.519 the Warrant Commission and the House Select Committee and everybody. 135 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:51.959 You know, it's got to be significant enough, so it 136 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:55.120 creates a whole Are you going to find that? You know? 137 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:57.680 Just say no, no, just one second there, because something 138 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:01.319 you reminded me of a Peterdale Scott presentation and I'm 139 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:05.000 gonna butcher what he said. Uh, but he wanted to 140 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:07.480 remind everybody at the end of his you know discussion. 141 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:09.439 It was one of those you know, Dallas sixty three 142 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:12.800 things he did and I'm sure you know what I'm 143 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:15.040 talking about, where he did a series of him and 144 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:17.040 they were they were kind of similar, but they picked 145 00:08:17.079 --> 00:08:19.639 up little bits of things and then he answered questions 146 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:21.920 and he always had way more to say than he 147 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:26.399 had time. But Peter Dell Scott, who is the guy who, 148 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:28.959 by the way, is responsible for the concept of the 149 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:33.679 deep politics and deep state and all of this, whether 150 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.000 he wants to be or not, he is, you know 151 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:39.840 that phrase and all that he said at one point. 152 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:41.399 You know, you got to keep in mind another thing 153 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:44.799 about this, which is, you know, you want two pages, 154 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:49.200 they're gonna dump two thousand on you. Or you want 155 00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:53.480 two pages, they're going to hide two thousand and make 156 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:56.360 you fight for each one of those two thousand, so 157 00:08:56.440 --> 00:09:00.440 that nineteen hundred and ninety eight of them end up 158 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:06.159 being nothing. And the idea is that through attrition, you'll surrender. 159 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:09.559 And that is a strategy that's also been part of 160 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:11.759 this that I think a lot of researchers never bothered 161 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:14.639 to mention because it you know, it used to be 162 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:19.039 a big gigantic waste of time, paper, energy, money. Okay, 163 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:21.720 you know you're paying for pages. I mean I remember 164 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:24.960 getting angry, and I've told you this several times. You know, 165 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:28.759 I request and pay for you know, thirty pages, and 166 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:31.480 what I got are ten copies of the same newspaper 167 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.120 cutout article that we're in, you know, ten different folders, 168 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:38.879 so therefore at different numbers, but were literally the same 169 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:42.720 repetitive crap that I already had, you know, and I 170 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:46.320 had a better copy than the congressman did. That kind 171 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:48.320 of thing happened to me, and it happened to a 172 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:50.519 lot of researchers, and it did cause people to say, 173 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:53.200 you know what, there's nothing to see here. There's just 174 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:56.279 a bunch of redundant garbage. And in other cases, when 175 00:09:56.279 --> 00:09:59.039 you're trying to pry things out, you'd be confused because 176 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:01.360 you'd get a hold of some things and you'd say 177 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:04.399 to yourself, like I said, with the newspaper articles, why 178 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:07.679 is this classified? This is something that was publicly available. 179 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:10.799 They stuck it in their workfolder, and therefore it's classified. 180 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:13.679 What a waste of time. So you have this double 181 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:17.679 waste of time thing that also goes in with this 182 00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:22.840 regular hiding, destruction moving, you know, claims of ignorance. We 183 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:24.559 can't find it, we don't know where that is, we 184 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:28.360 never heard of that person, et cetera, et cetera. There 185 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:32.639 is a wide array of weapons that are used to 186 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:36.320 keep things away from the public, Am I right or wrong? 187 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:37.480 Well? 188 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:39.279 Yeah, and I think we see it in the join 189 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:43.679 The first thing is we have to acknowledge that that 190 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:46.759 people were dealing with their smart people, right, they were 191 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:51.399 coping with foreign intelligence agencies, not just a KGV, but 192 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:56.399 even foreign intelligence agencies British, French allies who would have 193 00:10:56.519 --> 00:10:59.039 liked to know thinks about what we were doing. Now, 194 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:03.639 these are professional people who have to cope with controlling information. 195 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:06.120 And if you don't think they're smart and that they 196 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:10.120 have good practices for that, you just be naive. So 197 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:14.039 the fact that they don't have a body of best 198 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:17.000 practices that they can use against us, even if it 199 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:18.720 was just for us, you know, they know how to 200 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:21.919 do this. So first off, you have to accept that. 201 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:24.720 And the sources of things that you're describing are in 202 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.480 their Their best practice is manual. You know, trainees get that. 203 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.600 And in what Jeff is pursuing, we have a good 204 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:36.960 reflection of that because we have the We have the 205 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:40.639 CIA fighting Jeff in court for years and years and 206 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:46.240 years over Joinees administrative file. Now this is his personal 207 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:51.000 admin file, what jobs he held, what clearances he got. 208 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:57.039 We have had personal files on Hunt and Morales and 209 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:01.639 other well known CIA figures for ages. You know, it's 210 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:03.759 not like they have not shared that stuff before I 211 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.080 shared them with committees, you know this, So you'd have 212 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:09.279 to say, why in the world, you know, would I 213 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:13.919 have David Phillips adman file or David Morales sadmin file 214 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:18.120 and I don't have you know, I don't have Joan 215 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:21.240 edies And they're fighting in court? What what is the 216 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:23.440 big deal? And I think it gets back to what 217 00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:25.600 you're saying. You know, there's there's kind of like a 218 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:30.200 first line of defense. You define, you defend something that's 219 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:35.639 relatively innocuous and that holds you at bay. So you 220 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:40.960 can't request his operational files or the special affairs staff 221 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:45.600 files pertaining to him, or the DRE files, or you 222 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:48.759 can't you don't get the opportunity to really pursue the 223 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:53.120 question of all why months and months of his DRE 224 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:57.440 files uh just went missing? Now you're stuck on this 225 00:12:57.559 --> 00:13:01.120 admind Phil edmin file. So I think it's it's like 226 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:03.919 what you're saying, Chuck, we all wondered, why would they 227 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:08.639 be so stubborn in protecting that. Well, it's like first 228 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:11.879 line of defense. If you can keep winning in court 229 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:15.360 on that, then you don't open the door going to 230 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:19.039 the really critical stuff, which might tell you the Osbale story. 231 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:23.840 So that's part of it. Because so we need to remember, 232 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:29.519 first off, what Representative Luna managed to get for us 233 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:35.840 is literally to persuade the CIA to release that admin file. 234 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:38.879 And they didn't make a big deal. They kind of 235 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:42.600 snuck it out onto the server on Friday evening, you know, 236 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:46.279 and there it is. So there's the admin file. Finally, 237 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:49.519 it's like, what's the big deal. You were in court 238 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:51.960 for years and years and then and then you told 239 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:56.200 Jeff in court, oh, we can't find it, but oh 240 00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.679 you found it when the congress person asked for it, 241 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.200 and you just put it on there. So you know, 242 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:05.879 this does kind of expose the fact that there's something 243 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:10.879 of interest here. None of us expected a smoking gun 244 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:15.000 in an admin file, that would be ridiculous, but this, 245 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:18.320 if they're fighting this hard to hold back even the 246 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:23.960 most basic information about Joe and Edes, it's it's interest signal. 247 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:28.000 And I'm amazed by the number of people that say, oh, well, 248 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:32.840 this means there's nothing there our contrere. It absolutely means 249 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:35.559 that there's something there, maybe not in their file, but 250 00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:39.679 something associated with Joe and Edes and the dre in 251 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:41.080 nineteen sixty three. 252 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:44.159 Right, And a quick note on context. Jeff Morley started 253 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:48.080 suing the CIA, from what I can understand publicly in 254 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:51.879 two thousand and three, folks, So you know around the 255 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:55.919 fortieth anniversary is when he started suing the CIA to 256 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:59.679 get to get this, among other things, but to get this. 257 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.399 And here's the funny part. Let's not forget ten years 258 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:05.639 before that, there was supposed to be a whole lot 259 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:08.480 of collection anything that would be relevant. You know, the 260 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:12.960 JFK Records Collection Act, right put into law by George 261 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.960 hw Bush and then enacted by Bill Clinton when he 262 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:20.480 took office because it was an executive branch agency. Just 263 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.799 giving you that context that in ninety three you have 264 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:27.360 the HSCA in existence. I mean, no, excuse me, the 265 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:32.240 ARRB in existence. My fault there, Sorry, I misspoke. And 266 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:37.360 in two thousand and three Jeff starts to sue the government. Okay, 267 00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:40.320 as far as I know publicly, all right, I don't know. 268 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:42.559 Maybe the case was worked on before that, etc. I'm 269 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:45.559 not sure. I'm just telling you that first filings I 270 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:48.679 see here in two thousand and three, Okay, But it 271 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:51.480 went on and on and on and like I said, 272 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:54.639 all the way up to right before Kavanaugh's last decision 273 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:58.159 before going to the Supreme Court is shooting down this 274 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:02.279 situation in court. Meanwhile, one congress person happens to ask 275 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.120 for it. That causes me to ask a few questions. 276 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:07.679 But I'll leave it alone, Larry, and let you get 277 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:09.720 back to it. But I think that context is necessary 278 00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:12.679 to understand as we sit here in twenty twenty five, 279 00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:17.480 almost sixty two years after the assassination, when he started 280 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:21.159 suing them, forty years after the assassination, and we had 281 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.200 a you know, an agreed upon bipartisan bill that went 282 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:27.960 through Congress, and a law created and an executive branch 283 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:32.840 agency created to collect anything relevant, you know, in ten 284 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:37.639 years before Jeff started suing in the early nineties. I'm 285 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:39.600 just saying, I mean, you want to keep going backwards. 286 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:42.120 We could talk about the seventies and the HCA and 287 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:45.159 the Warrant Commission and what the hell is going on here, 288 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.480 But anyway, just the context I want to give people 289 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.320 is that after sixty two years, almost here you go 290 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:57.399 because a congress person asked, go ahead, Larry, please continue. 291 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:00.360 Well, and let's pull back for and go back that 292 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:03.279 far for just a little bit more context. If you 293 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:06.960 want to pull like three basic things out of this. 294 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:12.400 It's sort of one basic thing is that Jeff knew 295 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:17.319 because the Cubans that he was talking to within the 296 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:22.240 Student Directorate told him that they report repeatedly met with 297 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:27.880 and talked with and passed on information about Lee Rvy 298 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:33.200 Oswald to their case officer. You know, they've talked repeatedly 299 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:35.599 about that over the years. There was no mystery to them. 300 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:41.160 They passed on to their case officer propaganda pieces and 301 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:46.640 letters that they were preparing about Lee Harvey Oswall's okay. Now, 302 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:52.079 as far as Johan Edes is concerned, he never admitted 303 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:56.200 to anybody that he was in contact with the DRE, 304 00:17:57.319 --> 00:18:00.279 that he was in contact with the DR about oz Wall. 305 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.680 When he was assigned to be liaison to the HSCA, 306 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:10.119 he knew the HSCA was asking him about the Student Directorate. 307 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:13.839 You know, we're trying to find out about the student Directorate. 308 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.119 We knew that they had contact with Oswald. Could you 309 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:21.680 help us locate information on this? Joinees never brought forth 310 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:26.319 that he's the guy. Okay, Now there's a real problem 311 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.039 there because there's no reason he shouldn't do that. There 312 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:35.319 was nothing in world. Now you might argue domestic surveillance, 313 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:40.440 domestic operations. But in any event, he made the decision 314 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:42.799 not to share that information. So you have to ask 315 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:47.759 why the CIA made the decision not to share the 316 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:52.200 information that their case officer had been getting this stuff. 317 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:56.160 So none of this would could be officially confirmed to 318 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:02.079 Jeff he knew what had happened, he could not essentially 319 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:06.759 confirm that the CIA was lined and the Joean Edes 320 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:12.440 with wisoling information with this ADMIN file. One of the 321 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:14.920 key parts, not the only key part, but one of 322 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.160 the key parts is it confirmed the alias that the 323 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:23.119 Cubans had said that they were using in their contacts 324 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:28.240 with their case officer Howard. Okay, kind of innocuous Howard. 325 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.759 They even had a copy of a receipt we sent 326 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:37.480 stuff to Howard. This this exposes the fundamental why that 327 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:42.279 the CIA knew Joeann Edes knew. They knew about these 328 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:46.279 contacts with the DRE. They knew all about Oswald. There 329 00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:50.319 was information going into a file, a case officer's file 330 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:54.079 at made a minimum at JM WAVE about Oswald and 331 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:58.440 within the Special Affairs staff, oswelld was a non figure 332 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:01.039 in an old character and there was a body of 333 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:07.640 information in their in their possession there at the CIA. Okay, Okay, 334 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:12.000 So this, this one thing in that admin file gave 335 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:17.440 lie to the CIA's denial. That's that's a big thing, 336 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:21.319 because why would they do that. There's by itself that's no. 337 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:23.440 But this was his job. He's supposed to talk to 338 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:27.640 these people, you know, why why not disclose that? Okay, 339 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:29.960 So that's the first thing that you have to back 340 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.160 off and say, why in the world were they defending that. Well, 341 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:35.720 one of the things is it gives lie to the 342 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:40.240 to the depth of information that the CIA held on 343 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:44.480 Oswald prior to the assassination. But it exposes another big 344 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.359 thing that we need to bring into the context that 345 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:51.599 Jeff and John Newman had pursued years before earlier as well, 346 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.440 and that was conversations about Oswald in Mexico City and 347 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:01.720 conversations with ci off Sir Jane Roman, in which they 348 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:06.400 pointed out to her that CIA co headquarters had been 349 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:10.359 asked by their Mexico City station to pass on current 350 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:14.519 information about Lee Harvey Oswald and they had not done so. 351 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:19.880 In fact, they had overtly not done so, saying basically, 352 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:22.400 we know he's about to come back from Russia. Oh, 353 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.720 by the way, he's been back for over a year. Okay, 354 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.720 and that's the most recent thing in the files where 355 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:30.680 we know now without a doubt that there was a 356 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:36.319 body of data in CIA at wave within spatial Affairs staff, 357 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:41.200 and the two guys got Roman to even admit that 358 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.440 what this looks like was that there was an operational 359 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.599 interest in Oswald and the information of him on it 360 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:53.200 was being compartmentalized, compartmentalized within SaaS from the rest of CIA, 361 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:58.680 certainly in compared to life from Mexico City. So in 362 00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:02.599 the second stroke to all of this, without putting it in, 363 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:06.079 you know, in a little memo to anybody, we now 364 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:12.319 know that the CIA was holding information on Oswald that 365 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:16.039 they were not sharing internally, and just on that piece alone, 366 00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:19.559 it's almost impossible to think there was not a reason 367 00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:24.799 there was there was, indeed an operational interest. To Jeff 368 00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:28.440 in his articles has interviewed you know, two or three 369 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:31.920 CI officers and said, look at this, look at this situation, 370 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:34.960 look at what we now know, and tell me what 371 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:37.960 you think it means. And they're all going, based on 372 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.839 our experience, it clearly means there was an operational interest 373 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:46.839 in Oswald. For something how serious, whatever, you know, anybody 374 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:50.799 within the experience in the CIA would draw the same conclusion. 375 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:54.240 So now we've learned that too. The only question is 376 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:56.119 where are those files? 377 00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:56.799 Right? 378 00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:59.200 And the funny thing is we may be getting close 379 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:03.039 to where they should be. Getting them would be another story, 380 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:05.359 but this laid to us a big step in the 381 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:07.799 direction of where they should have existed. 382 00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:10.519 Well, I don't want to pass by this too quickly 383 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:14.119 and forget that. We need to hammer the fact that 384 00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:18.839 the House Select Committee on Assassinations wanted people that were 385 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:21.880 going to liaise with them from various government agencies and 386 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:25.680 representing industries and all kinds of stuff, and their one 387 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:29.279 condition seemed to be, we want people that weren't involved 388 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:33.440 in the events in nineteen sixty three, and we need 389 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:36.079 liaisons that will be knowledgeable enough to go find what 390 00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:39.160 we need found, you know, during the course of our investigation, etc. 391 00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:44.279 And they send Joe Eadies, who clearly at some point 392 00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:46.319 had to say, no, I don't know anything about any 393 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:50.640 of this stuff, and yet he's being asked specific questions 394 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:55.079 in the seventies. Right, So isn't this the big red flag? 395 00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:58.240 Isn't this the thing that really got Jeff to chase 396 00:23:58.240 --> 00:23:59.559 it in general. 397 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:03.799 Oh yeah, it's a huge red flag when you know 398 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.519 somebody knows something. Now, the thing is, Jeff knew that 399 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:11.079 because of what the Cubans had told him, and multiple 400 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:14.480 Cubans had told him that he believed that. Jeff just 401 00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:17.960