WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.439 Hi, and welcome back to part two of our double 2 00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:05.080 episode about the fight against the polt Taks in the 3 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:08.720 UK in the late nineteen eighties and early nineties. If 4 00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:11.080 you haven't listened to part one yet, I'd go back 5 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:12.359 and listen to that first. 6 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:28.160 Alamatina happenalta ah be la child, be la child, the 7 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:36.920 larchild chow chow Alamatina I'm penala. 8 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.039 Before we get started, we just wanted to remind you 9 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:43.359 that our podcast is brought to you by our Patreon supporters. 10 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:47.119 Our supporters found our work and in return get exclusive 11 00:00:47.159 --> 00:00:51.479 early access to podcast episodes without ads, bonus episodes every month, 12 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:56.039 free and discounted merchandise and other content. So our supporters 13 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:58.880 can listen to an exclusive bonus episode about this topic 14 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:02.799 with more information. So if you can, please join us 15 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:06.319 and help us preserve and promote our history of collective struggle. 16 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:10.599 Learn more and sign up at patreon dot com slash 17 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:15.359 working Class History link in the show notes. We left 18 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.040 off last week on the thirty first of March nineteen 19 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:21.760 ninety after a police attack on tens of thousands of 20 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:26.159 anti poll tax demonstrators backfired, resulting in heavy rioting on 21 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:28.719 the eve of the introduction of attacks on the first 22 00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:29.280 of April. 23 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:39.799 So everybody, all the police, the media, the government all 24 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:44.959 laid into the demonstrators. They all immediately blamed the devonstrates 25 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:49.879 as the Labor Party. Everybody headed in for the devonstrades. 26 00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:53.079 As a reminder, this is Dave Morris of the Tottenham 27 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:54.959 Anti poll Tax group in London. 28 00:01:55.760 --> 00:02:00.640 They thought this was a very strong, well roots said, 29 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:05.200 determined movement that was determined to defy the law, so 30 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:08.400 that in their eyes, the establishment, you know, everyone was 31 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:11.639 a radical, but we're talking about millions of people. They 32 00:02:11.800 --> 00:02:18.039 thought they could just attack, insult the intelligence of the 33 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:22.719 whole anti pol tax movement. And I remember speaking to 34 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:28.039 a journalist TV cameraman at Travalga Square during the whole battle, 35 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:31.879 and you wants to know what do you think about 36 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.919 what's happened, and I gave my opinion. I said, you know, 37 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:37.319 you're only put the opinions down that the media want 38 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:39.400 to put over. He said, yeah, that's true, because I 39 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:44.599 wasponed to seventeen people, you know, seventeen people on this issue, 40 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:49.080 and nobody is willing to condemn the demonstrators. Yeah, and 41 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:51.960 of course what will appear in the news that evening 42 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:55.639 ordinary member the public or demonstrators will say, oh, it's 43 00:02:55.639 --> 00:02:57.199 all some troublemakers or something. 44 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:00.680 Indeed, in the wake of the riot, the British press 45 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:03.599 was incensed and called on members of the public to 46 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:07.080 turn on the writers. They worked with police to identify 47 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:11.039 suspects and appealed to readers to quote hunt the rioters 48 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:16.159 and quote shop them I eat informing them to the police. 49 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:19.280 The People newspaper, for example, displayed a mugshot of one 50 00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:23.199 man it described as a quote swarthy Latin or Mediterranean 51 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:26.680 type with a high forehead end quote, who was wanted 52 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:29.560 for allegedly throwing a scaffold pole through the front window 53 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:33.800 of a police car like a spear. But the propaganda didn't. 54 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:38.919 Really work, and the reality was there was massive support 55 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:43.800 for people's right to defend themselves and against the police 56 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:45.719 and against the governments. 57 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:48.159 Because the tax was so hated. But also I think 58 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:52.439 people realized that this was a provocation. I think the 59 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:55.719 aim of the police and the government was to try 60 00:03:55.759 --> 00:04:02.199 to split the movement into respectable and and you know, 61 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:05.520 they thought it would work. It worked in terms of 62 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:10.400 all the official establishment media and whatever slamming the demonstrators, 63 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:16.360 but also Militants or the All Britain Federation main organizers, 64 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:19.680 who of course wanted to stay in the Labor Party 65 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:22.600 because that was their long term strategy of trying to 66 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:25.439 take over the Labor Party. They said that they would 67 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:31.279 organize an investigation and name names of the people behind 68 00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:31.959 the violence. 69 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:36.120 As a reminder, Militant was the largest revolutionary left group 70 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:39.360 in the UK at the time. Under huge pressure from 71 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:43.639 the press, two Militant activists, Steve Nally and Tommy Sheridan, 72 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.759 who were both leading officials within the All Britain Anti 73 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:50.279 Pol Tax Federation known as the FED, appeared on news 74 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:54.199 programs to condemn the rioters. The general line adopted by 75 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:56.759 Militant at that time was that around two hundred and 76 00:04:56.839 --> 00:05:01.920 fifty individuals quote intent on causing trial end quote, had 77 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:06.160 sabotaged the march. Sheridan said the FED quote condemned it 78 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:10.079 totally end quote, and Nally said that they would quote 79 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:14.120 conduct an internal inquiry to try to root out the troublemakers, 80 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:17.519 which will go public and if necessary name names. 81 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:18.800 End quote. 82 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:23.240 So the organizers of the demonstration were backed into a 83 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:28.240 corner where they were condemning the demonstrators for defending themselves 84 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:34.319 against police violence. This completely outraged everybody within the anti 85 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:39.279 Poul Sax movements, and the organizers of the demonstration had 86 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:44.720 no contingency plans, no legal defense contingency pairs if anyone 87 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:49.920 was arrested, no solicitors' numbers, no advice on what to 88 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:52.920 say if people were arrested. No, you know, there was 89 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:58.199 no pre thinking about what advice people might need. But 90 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:01.399 also there was clear going to be no follow up 91 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:06.279 because they were actually condemning people for defended themselves. 92 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:10.279 Now, in the end, this promised internal inquiry never happened, 93 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:13.560 and no officials in the FED did name any names. 94 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:16.800 But with the help of the media, the police started 95 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:20.800 identifying more suspects from the riot. In particular, they wanted 96 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.759 to catch three hundred people they claimed had been caught 97 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:28.079 on film committing serious crimes. Now, in reality, all they 98 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:30.759 needed to do was catch people who looked like those 99 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:33.639 three hundred people, and they used the riot as a 100 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:37.279 pretext to raid large numbers of homes, particularly of people 101 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:41.839 involved in local anti pol tax groups. Officers smashed down doors, 102 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:46.839 attacked activists, ripped flats and houses apart, and seized things 103 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:50.959 like address books, pamphlets, and leaflets. Dave and others in 104 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:54.319 the grassroots three D network felt they had to support 105 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:55.160 those arrested. 106 00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:59.360 Some of us involved with the three D Network, who 107 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:02.839 of course were involved with the demonstration, we said we've 108 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:06.240 got to do something immediately because I think three hundred 109 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:11.199 and forty people got arrested at the demonstration, but one 110 00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:13.839 hundred and fifty got arrested in the following weeks. There 111 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:19.560 was this hysteria in the media and police raids, particularly 112 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:22.600 around London, but all over the country. There was clearly 113 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:26.360 going to be a really quite serious crackdown against the 114 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:32.319 anti pol tax movement, and we had to defend everybody 115 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:36.680 that was arrested. So within forty eight hours or something, 116 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:40.160 we started having small meetings. You know, we didn't know 117 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:42.800 who had been arrested, where they were being kept, so 118 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:45.439 we had to start going to all the police stations 119 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:51.279 courtrooms to track people down, to give them information and 120 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:56.120 contact numbers of solicitors. It was a real uphill battle 121 00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:01.079 which could have been much better prepared for before the event. 122 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:06.360 So we organized a defendants meeting pretty soon after the demonstration. 123 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.240 About sixty people who had been arrested came along and 124 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:13.279 we decided to set up the Trafalgar Square Defendants Campaign. 125 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:16.680 This became really important. 126 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:20.800 So the aim of the campaign support those arrested, get 127 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:24.639 them legal advice, raise money so that people could if 128 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:27.360 they were being held in jail or whatever without bail, 129 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:33.480 they could get visits. But maybe as importantly, to get 130 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:37.799 the whole anti pol tax movement to commit to supporting 131 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:42.080 the Trafalgar Square Defendants campaign. The All Britain Federation didn't 132 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:46.639 like kids, they didn't want an independent national body, and 133 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:50.639 I think they called their own meeting which only two 134 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:55.279 defendants turned up to, and basically they had to abandon 135 00:08:55.960 --> 00:09:01.120 their kind of attempts to create something in petition with 136 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:05.240 the Travago Square Defendance campaign, and gradually over the following months, 137 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:10.159 every federation of anti poll tax groups signed up to 138 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:14.120 support the Travago Square Defendants campaign, which was really important. 139 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:17.879 Legal support for arrested participants is a vital but often 140 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.600 neglected part of any social movement which wants to be successful, 141 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:25.879 and the Trafalgar Square Defendants campaign set a great example 142 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:27.759 of how to organize it. 143 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:31.200 It wasn't just moral support, it wasn't just money, it 144 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:34.399 wasn't just it also involved the whole movement in tracking 145 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:37.639 down people that had been defendants, witnesses to what had 146 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:42.360 happens and to keep the movement united was the most 147 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:47.720 important success of the Trafago Square defendants campaign. So the 148 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:52.200 attempt by the authorities to divide and rule by splitting 149 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:57.799 people into respectable and radical was countered effectively, so the 150 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:01.639 whole movement remained united. I was heavily involved in that 151 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:05.080 Travance Square Defendant's campaign for the following year. In fact, 152 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:11.600 actually we also as a campaign was supporting anybody that 153 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:14.720 was arrested on local protests, as well as Pavada Square 154 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:19.279 getting the whole movement to take a principal position that 155 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:23.000 they would support anyone arrested in their local areas or 156 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:25.759 even jailed, because some people were being jailed for non 157 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:28.919 payment eventually, and we thought it was very, very important 158 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:33.360 that the whole movement supported those who were, you know, 159 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:36.960 subject to police or bailiff's action for being part of 160 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:37.519 the movement. 161 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:40.679 The Defendant's campaign put on dozens of benefit gigs to 162 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:43.879 raise money, and they put together a team of solicitors. 163 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:47.559 This lawyer's group helped do things like gather police video 164 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:50.679 evidence and pass it onto the campaign, which then went 165 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:54.200 through them, looking for relevant evidence for different defendants and 166 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:58.840 editing particular portions for use in different people's trials. The 167 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:03.600 campaign also on advice sessions about prison and held weekly meetings, 168 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:05.919 mailing them minutes out to all of the over two 169 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:09.559 hundred and fifty defendants they were supporting. The Trafalgar Squared 170 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:13.120 Defendants campaign liked the movement against the poll tax itself 171 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:17.039 was also infiltrated by undercover police. You can learn more 172 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:19.879 about that in the bonus episode with Dave, available for 173 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:22.679 our supporters on Patreon on the link in the show notes. 174 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:26.399 Some defendants did end up getting convicted or taking plea 175 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:29.679 deals where they pled guilty to lesser offenses than what 176 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:32.919 they were initially charged with in order to get lighter sentences, 177 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:36.840 but the campaign and their lawyers did help numerous defendants 178 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:40.240 get off At trial, multiple people ended up being found 179 00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:43.440 not guilty or having their cases dismissed because they were 180 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:47.279 able to prove that the police blatantly lied and falsified evidence. 181 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:51.440 A mister Hanni was acquitted after police statements were proven 182 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:54.879 to have been falsified and also later edited to match 183 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:58.279 his description rather than the actual perpetrator of the offense. 184 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:01.480 Duras in the court room burst out laughing when they 185 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:04.639 saw the police notes, which originally described a man with 186 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:08.519 a shaved head. After Hanni was arrested who didn't have 187 00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:11.279 a shaved head, the officer crossed that out and instead 188 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:15.559 wrote in close cropped hair. One defendant, a former miner 189 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:19.399 named Michael Conway, was charged with violent disorder. He did 190 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:22.360 admit throwing rocks at police, but he stated that he 191 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.879 did so in order to protect the crowd from violent 192 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:29.039 police attacks. He was acquitted by the jury. The day 193 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:32.399 after the riot, the poll tax officially came into force, 194 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:35.559 and so the most crucial phase of the campaign began 195 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:40.360 non payment. Actually following through with refusing to pay the 196 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:42.879 tax would be the most difficult and frightening part of 197 00:12:42.919 --> 00:12:46.240 the campaign for participants, so we asked Dave how the 198 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:48.879 movement tried to repair people for taking this step. 199 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:57.000 It was really important to get out mass information, encouragements, advice, support, 200 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:02.080 neighborhood by neighborhood across the whole country, so that people 201 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:05.240 felt part of something. It wasn't just something you read 202 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.320 about in the media or had a few celebrities or leaders. 203 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:12.600 It was something that had a mass, grassroots character. So 204 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:17.840 obviously we encourage people not to pay. People started, you know, 205 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:22.159 challenging the bills saying they'd not received them or or 206 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:25.440 they weren't the person that named on the bill. If 207 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:28.360 they didn't pay the bill, they got a summons to 208 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:32.200 attend court, which would result in a court ordering them 209 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:32.639 to pay. 210 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:37.120 So there was a whole block for court's. 211 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:40.799 Kind of campaign, you know, because normally if people don't 212 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:45.600 pay their local council rates or tax, they wouldn't attend court. 213 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:48.960 They'd just wait until they got an order through the post. 214 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:51.600 So we were saying, well, let's go in en mass 215 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:54.639 to the courts. So hundreds were turning up. Because of 216 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:58.159 the scale of it. Local councils saying harringey, they might 217 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:02.159 try and deal with three thousand court cases in bulk 218 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.879 on a day, but if someone turns up then they 219 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:07.159 had to have a proper hearing with that person. Are 220 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:10.240 you that person? Do you owe this money? You know, 221 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:13.519 why haven't you paid its? So we were advised to 222 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.480 turn up. We were advising people how to challenge the 223 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.200 bills basically take as much time assumingly possible. 224 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:22.799 And this was happening all over the country. 225 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:25.679 This was causing problems with the courts because there had 226 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:28.000 never been the need to have so many court cases 227 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:32.679 around non payment before. As some examples, Bristol City Council 228 00:14:32.840 --> 00:14:36.679 issued one hundred and twenty thousand summonses to people in Leeds, 229 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:39.399 it was one hundred and ten thousand people, with similar 230 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:43.720 numbers in other cities. Councils were regularly issuing summonses to 231 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:47.320 three thousand people or more on a single day, which 232 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:49.440 of course wouldn't be possible in a courtroom in the 233 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:53.639 alloted time. Demonstrations were held by local antipol tax groups 234 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.879 on court dates as well. In Warrington, for example, in 235 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:00.519 June nineteen ninety one thousand protesters took over with the court, 236 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:04.399 forcing all cases to be postponed. In Southwark. In London, 237 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.840 fifteen hundred protesters appeared at court, overwhelming the police. They 238 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.440 refused to budge until the court agreed to adjourn all 239 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:12.960 five thousand of its cases. 240 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.840 So the entire court system was kind of clogged up 241 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:21.279 and really struggling, I mean seriously struggling. It's something like 242 00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:25.320 fifty percent of the summons is you know, that were 243 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:28.480 challenged or that people turned up then they couldn't enforce them. 244 00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:32.240 Local groups also worked with sympathetic lawyers to train their 245 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:35.360 members to support non payers in court, which they were 246 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.120 able to do in some cases. As Mackenzie friends a 247 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:42.720 role in which non lawyers can provide advice and assistance 248 00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:45.919 to defendants. We discussed this role in more detail in 249 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:49.000 episodes eighty three to eighty four of our podcast about 250 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:52.519 the Angry Brigade and their trial. A poll Tax Legal 251 00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:55.799 group was established and in total over one thousand people 252 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:58.480 in England and Wales were trained in poll Tak's law 253 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:01.799 by the movement. They also produced dozens of easy to 254 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:04.840 read leaflets and bulletins, as well as a book full 255 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.679 of tips on how to disrupt or delay court proceedings 256 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.919 from anything like asking for water, demanding to see ID 257 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:14.799 documents of everyone in the court, or even having people 258 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:18.240 set off fire alarms in the building. Defendants were also 259 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:21.440 helped by the incompetence of local councils who didn't have 260 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:25.960 previous experience dealing with this kind of situation. Medina Council 261 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:28.679 on the Isle of Wight, for example, sent out court 262 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:32.399 reminded notices using second class stamps. This meant that by 263 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:35.840 the time they arrived, defendants didn't get the advanced notice 264 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:39.320 period they were legally entitled to, so the court throughout 265 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:42.200 all nineteen hundred cases and the Council had to go 266 00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:45.039 back to the drawing board at this point. It's worth 267 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:48.360 stressing that the movement against the poll tax was overwhelmingly 268 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:49.600 a working class movement. 269 00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:54.480 The majority of people who weren't paying were people who 270 00:16:54.480 --> 00:17:00.080 couldn't pay, so the big slogan was can't pay, won't pay. 271 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:05.160 Really that was the core of the movement. It wasn't 272 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:10.480 necessarily the core of those who regularly attended the local groups. 273 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:14.279 I would say it was a predominantly working class movement, 274 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:19.640 and radical activists probably had an influence beyond their numbers, 275 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:26.000 but the power of the movement was a whole mosaic 276 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:32.519 of informal networks in pubs, in streets, in workplaces, which 277 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:35.799 should never be underestimated. It's not just the people who've 278 00:17:35.799 --> 00:17:39.480 signed up to become a member of a campaign, but 279 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:43.400 if it's a genuinely mass campaign, it kind of reaches 280 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:49.559 very very widely through informal conversations and word of mouth. 281 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:53.039 And so when we had five hundred street reps at. 282 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:56.920 One point in Haringey, it's not necessarily that everybody in 283 00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.640 that street was feeding back to that street rep. But 284 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.960 somehow they became a conduit for you know, people thought 285 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:06.519 they were expert just because oh, you're the street rep 286 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:09.279 for the campaign, so you must know everything about the polls. 287 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:11.240 You know, maybe they didn't know that much about it, 288 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.680 but they'd volunteered to at least give out leaflets or something, 289 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.799 so you know, and then people felt linked into that 290 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:23.319 kind of coordinated network. But the strength of it went 291 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:29.200 far beyond the formal organization. And I would say ninety 292 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:32.640 five percent of the non payers were people who just 293 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.200 couldn't have fall to pay. I mean, for working class 294 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:39.119 people not paying a bill, it's quite a big step 295 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:43.359 because you know there's going to be enforcement down the line. Yeah, 296 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:45.839 so you know, often you hear people calling there should 297 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:47.799 be rend strikes, and there should be this, and people 298 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:50.480 shouldn't pay their electric bills because they're too much. You know, 299 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:54.759 this is quite a challenge for people. I mean, obviously 300 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:57.519 a lot of people just can't pay anyway, but then 301 00:18:57.559 --> 00:18:59.799 they get into debt and that leads a serious trouble. 302 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.319 But this was for the first time, possibly. 303 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:06.759 In history, you know, there was a collective non payments 304 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:13.480 widespreads so that people felt confident that they can take parts. 305 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:17.519 In some areas, local newspapers published lists of the names 306 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:21.000 of non payers, trying to shame them into paying. This 307 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:26.160 strategy backfired spectacularly because organizers used them to contact nonpayers 308 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:29.200 to advise them of their rights, and some people who 309 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:31.960 hadn't been included on the lists wrote into papers to 310 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:35.200 complain that they were proud nonpayers, upset that their names 311 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:38.440 had been left out. In addition to the courts, local 312 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:41.160 councils used bailiffs to try to enforce payment of the 313 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:41.759 poll tax. 314 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:46.119 The next stage is that people would be sent orders 315 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:49.319 that if they didn't pay within six weeks or something, 316 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:53.400 bailiffs would come. Bailiffs were like, you know, official thugs 317 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:57.440 that would come around if somebody has a debt and 318 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.880 basically say we're going to if you don't right now 319 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.519 on the doorstep. You know, we're going to come in 320 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.599 and take your goods, take your computer, take your whatever. 321 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:10.200 You know, it wasn't computers at that stage, but you know, 322 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:12.440 we will take them and then we will sell them. 323 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.039 The council will sell them to raise money to pay 324 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:15.640 your debts. 325 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:19.720 The situation with bailiffs was worse in Scotland than elsewhere. 326 00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:22.519 In England and Wales, councils can only send around the 327 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.680 bailiffs after courts have granted liability orders and then they 328 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:28.880 can only enter your home if you let them in 329 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.359 or if they find an open window or door. But 330 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:35.400 in Scotland, sheriff officers can be sent to seize property 331 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.519 without court hearings and they're allowed to break into your 332 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.119 house to seize your property and auction it off. 333 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:46.759 So there was a whole period of advising people about 334 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.799 the powers that bailiffs have if you don't let them in, 335 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:52.880 if you don't open your door, and they can't get 336 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:58.039 in their power lists, so don't talk to them, don't collaborate. 337 00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:03.400 There were sort of owned trees and mobilizations if bayliffs 338 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:05.079 were in an area, because they would try to do 339 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:08.599 you know, like fifty homes in one go in a 340 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:13.240 particular area. People would have whistles and try to mobilize 341 00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:16.720 people because probably a majority didn't want to pay the 342 00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:19.799 pull tax. Even if they felt they had to pay, 343 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:23.599 they were still against it, so people would mobilize and 344 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.319 if bailiffs were spotted an area, people would make loud 345 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:30.519 noises and gather at houses that were being targeted. This 346 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:36.359 is quite a systematic, extensive solidarity movement at the grassroots 347 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:37.559 in Scotland. 348 00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:40.599 Because of the different legal situation where bailiffs could break 349 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:44.400 into your house, physical defense of homes was much more important. 350 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:47.519 The first attempt of sheriff to raid a property in 351 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:51.599 Glasgow was at the home of Jeanette McGinn. Over three 352 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.920 hundred people assembled outside her house and the sheriff never 353 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:58.480 even ended up trying to get inside. Local antipol tax 354 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:02.519 unions issued guidance advising people facing visits from sheriffs to 355 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:06.279 move their cars away from their homes and move possessions 356 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:09.039 to friends houses. Sometimes they would help them move the 357 00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:12.440 goods as well. In Edinburgh, organizers set up a group 358 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:16.759 called Scumbusters with cars and CEBE radios to monitor bailiff's 359 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:21.079 movements and mobilized defense of homes. Activists in Scotland also 360 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:26.119 held multiple occupations of sheriff's offices. In one instance, protesters 361 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.240 demanded that sheriff's abandon an auction of goods seized from 362 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:33.200 a local woman One Missus pattern, and this was successful, 363 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.559 with sheriffs abandoning the case. Other groups around the UK 364 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:41.680 used tactics like telephone trees and spied on bailiff companies 365 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:44.839 to identify their car number plates, which would be circulated 366 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.839 in local areas. Some cars had their tires slashed, and 367 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:52.720 sometimes entire towns were blockaded. In the tiny village of 368 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:56.519 Bishop's Lydard, with a population of fewer than three thousand people, 369 00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:00.599 one day, significant numbers of residents took the day off work, 370 00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:05.079 organized themselves into small groups, and built barricades, setting up 371 00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:08.160 checkpoints into the village to stop vehicles and ask them 372 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:09.039 about their business. 373 00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:11.680 You know, I'm not saying it happened in every case, 374 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:16.319 but it happened enough that the Pultex. 375 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:17.680 Was becoming unenforceable. 376 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:20.680 I when we're talking about millions were getting summons is 377 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:23.960 millions were getting bailiffs notes. 378 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.279 Hundreds of thousands were getting visits from bailiffs. 379 00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:32.160 Protesters were demonstrating outside the homes of owners of bailiff companies, 380 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:35.279 and many of the companies were getting into financial difficulty, 381 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:39.799 some of them going bankrupt. Bailiffs are only paid on 382 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.440 a commission basis, so they only get a cut of 383 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.279 depths they're able to recoup. So if they don't recoup 384 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:47.839 a debt, they don't get paid, and they were not 385 00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:52.200 doing a great job of recovering debts. In Bristol, for example, 386 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.039 in a whole year, bailiffs had only managed to get 387 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:58.240 fifty four thousand pounds from over one hundred and twenty 388 00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:02.160 thousand people who weren't paying. And in Scotland, a survey 389 00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:05.839 by Labor Research showed that after forty thousand visits to 390 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:09.240 seize property from homes, sheriffs hadn't managed to sell the 391 00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:13.400 property of a single person. In Scotland, the government resorted 392 00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:16.119 to trying to deduct money directly from the bank accounts 393 00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:20.599 of non payers. So organizers invised nonpayers to withdraw money 394 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:24.119 from the four major banks and instead used building societies 395 00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:28.359 or smaller banks. Bank bosses complained to councils about this, 396 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:32.279 and so this option was never implemented in England or Wales. 397 00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:35.720 Another option for councils trying to get their money was 398 00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:39.759 wage arrestment, taking money directly from people's pay packets or 399 00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:44.240 state benefits, but this wasn't very successful either, firstly because 400 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:48.160 councils had to get a legal judgment beforehand. Secondly, if 401 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:50.559