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Chum a casino 41 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:06.280 dot com Pluster the gas of the plus website retails. 42 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:19.280 You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking 43 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:22.400 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 44 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:23.319 written about them. 45 00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:28.560 Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. 46 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:33.280 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 47 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:37.439 and infamous killers in true crime history True Murder with 48 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:41.560 your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 49 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:56.000 Good Evening. From the outside looking in, Jennifer Pan seemed 50 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:59.960 like a model daughter living a perfect life, the ideal child, 51 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:02.919 the one her immigrant parents saw, was studying to become 52 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:05.800 a pharmacist at the University of Toronto. But there was 53 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:09.759 a dark, deceptive side to the angelic young woman. In reality, 54 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:12.039 Jennifer spent her days in the arms of her high 55 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.639 school sweetheart Daniel. In an attempt to lead the life 56 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:19.000 she dreamed of. She would do almost anything, lie about 57 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:23.240 her whereabouts, forge school documents, and invent fake jobs in 58 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:27.280 a fictitious apartment. For many years she led this double life, 59 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.400 but when her father discovered her web of lies, his 60 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:34.719 ultimatum was severe, and so too was her revenge, a 61 00:03:34.759 --> 00:03:38.919 plan that culminated in cold blooded murder, and it almost work, 62 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:43.120 except for one bad shot. The story of Jennifer Pan 63 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.919 is one of an all consuming love and devious betrayal 64 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:49.919 that led to a cold hearted plan hatched by a 65 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:52.360 group of youths who thought that he could pull off 66 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:57.280 the perfect crime. The book that we were featuring this 67 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:02.240 evening is a Dead Daughter's Deadly the Jennifer Pans Story 68 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:07.800 with my special guest journalist and author Jeremy Grimaldi. Welcome 69 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:09.840 to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing 70 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:11.840 to this interview. Jeremy Grimaldi. 71 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:14.319 Yeah, it's nice to be here. 72 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:19.360 Dan, Thank you very much. Congratulations on a very very 73 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:24.480 interesting story. One of my favorite questions, and I'm always curious, 74 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:28.279 tell us and tell our audience how you came to 75 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:31.839 be this author, why this story was important to you, 76 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:36.160 How you came to this story, A Daughter's Deadly Deception. 77 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:42.160 I'm a I'm a big faith fatalist. Well, I guess 78 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:44.879 fatalist is the right word. I'm a big believer in fate, 79 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:50.480 and fate brought me to this story. I became a 80 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:56.000 crime reporter and years after the murder was committed and 81 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:59.360 the trial started. Four years after the murder was committed, 82 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:03.360 and I happened to be the crime reporter in Markham 83 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:10.000 where it occurred. When it began, I was the go 84 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:13.399 to reporter. Turned out, it was at a time when 85 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:17.839 a lot of newspapers were cutting back on staff, so 86 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:22.800 I became the sort of one and only to cover 87 00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:25.639 the entire trial. It was a ten month trial, and 88 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:32.879 by the end it was so fascinating and so layered 89 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:38.800 that I had really no choice but to write it. 90 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:40.759 It was an important story that had to be told. 91 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:46.240 Certainly now just before we start, because I know there's 92 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:48.639 a lot of confusion, even for me born in Ontario. 93 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:53.360 So tell us where Markham is and in relation to Toronto, 94 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:57.000 where our international audience, our American audience will know more 95 00:05:57.079 --> 00:06:02.199 of than obviously Markham. Tell us what Markham is and 96 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:03.879 where it is in relation to Toronto. 97 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:12.720 Sure, Markham was once a small town, and it slowly 98 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:18.240 as Toronto grew into a metropolitan city, grew out and out. 99 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:22.600 It became a suburb. And you know, it was once 100 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:28.560 white Anglo Saxon, a farming community, but slowly it became 101 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:35.319 it became a suburban, a suburban town with a growing 102 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:40.160 Chinese population. And at this point it's about about half 103 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:44.360 the city of about three hundred and fifty thousand people 104 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:50.199 are are now Asian. I believe that actually half the 105 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:55.360 city is of Chinese origin, and many of them come 106 00:06:55.519 --> 00:07:01.439 from a municipality in Toronto called Scarborough. It's a sort 107 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:09.360 of a lower socioeconomic municipality and a lot of the 108 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:14.800 people who do well in Scarborough. I mean immigrants since 109 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.360 the fifties have landed in Scarborough. That's where people get 110 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:23.160 their start because of the cheap housing. And when those 111 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:28.120 residents do well, a lot of them Chinese, they move north. 112 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:32.319 And just north of Scarborough is Markham. I'm Jennifer. Pan's 113 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:34.560 family was a typical example of this. 114 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:43.720 Now, the main characters in this story, the Pan family, 115 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:46.560 and you talk about the fifty seven year old hand 116 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:52.560 Pan and his wife Bika and Pan and they've been 117 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.959 together thirty years. And you set this right away. You 118 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:59.199 set with the action and bring the audience in when 119 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:03.519 they are woken from a deep sleep and Hand the 120 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:08.160 father meets a man with a baseball bat in his 121 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:14.480 cap pulled down basically out of his down on his eyes. 122 00:08:14.519 --> 00:08:17.680 So and he's out of bed demanding money. So take 123 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:19.879 us to this scene that you bring us to in 124 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:23.839 the book, and what is happening in the Pan home. 125 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:27.360 Maybe before we start that, tell us just a little 126 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.959 bit about the Pan family and where they are. You 127 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:33.360 show some photos in there that sets up the scene 128 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:37.399 where this is an affluent part of town anyway, in 129 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:43.279 this suburb, and what Handpan wakes up to in his 130 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:45.600 home November eighth, twenty ten. 131 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:50.200 Okay, so I'll just I'll start off briefly by explaining 132 00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:56.200 how they came to be here there. The Pans are 133 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:02.039 Chinese of Chinese origin who came to Canada Vietnam after 134 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:08.279 the Vietnamese War. They landed and as I was saying 135 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:12.360 from the top, they came to Scarborough, managed to purchase 136 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:17.000 a home and worked at a car parts manufacturer called 137 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:22.919 Magna for twenty five years. And both of them worked 138 00:09:23.320 --> 00:09:26.840 their fingers to the bone. They were waking up at 139 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.559 five o'clock in the morning and working the whole day 140 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.840 through working overtime, and eventually it saved enough money to 141 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:38.519 move up to Markham and buy a suburban home, four 142 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:41.519 bedroom home on a very nice street in a place 143 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:45.360 called Unionville, which is the historic part of Markham. Excuse me. 144 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:54.679 And life in the suburban neighborhood was was Although it 145 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:59.320 may have seemed positive, it seemed to be negative for Jennifer, 146 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:04.039 and we'll we get into that later. But Hann again 147 00:10:04.360 --> 00:10:06.559 woke up at five o'clock in the morning for his job. 148 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:09.679 He was a tool and die maker, so he would 149 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.600 be in bed by ten nine. Sometimes he went to 150 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:17.480 bed that night he turned in early and woke up, 151 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:19.720 and you mentioned a baseball that was actually a gun. 152 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:22.120 He was laying in his bed and a gun was 153 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:26.600 shoved in his face, and a voice came out of 154 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:32.440 the darkness and said, where's the effing money. Hann was 155 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:40.600 then awoken from his slumber, turned around without his glasses on, 156 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:47.240 and marched down the stairs with a gun at the 157 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:51.159 back of his head. When he reached the bottom of 158 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:55.360 the stairs, he saw another man holding a gun to 159 00:10:55.399 --> 00:11:00.279 the head of his wife. And he was out on 160 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:03.679 the couch beside his wife. And it's the first thing 161 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:07.919 his wife asked him in Cantonese, said to him, how 162 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:11.200 did they get in? And he responded, I don't know. 163 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:20.559 I was sleeping. Afterwards, they were berated and and beaten briefly, 164 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:25.879 and but but but most of all they were they 165 00:11:25.879 --> 00:11:29.879 were repeatedly asked for the money, which handpan kept replying, 166 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:33.080 we don't have any money. All I have is sixty 167 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:38.919 dollars that's upstairs in my in my jean pockets. They 168 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:42.279 ended up getting that money to one of one of 169 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:45.720 the burglars called to the other and he ended up 170 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:49.240 getting that money. They were then marched to the bottom 171 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:53.120 of the stairs into the basement, and a blanket was 172 00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:58.320 put over Handpan's head and beck Ha's head and hand 173 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:03.759 Pan sat patiently and allowed the blanket to be put 174 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:06.960 over his head. He was then shot twice in the 175 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:11.559 face and the shoulder at point blank range, and he 176 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.360 slumped and fell to the floor. His wife wouldn't allow 177 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:18.039 the blanket to be to be put on her head. 178 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:26.159 She was panicking. She kept calling out to her daughter, Jennifer, please, 179 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:31.799 you can hurt us, but don't hurt our daughter. The 180 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:35.879 men had no time for this, so without a blanket 181 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:38.759 on her head, the men put the guns up to 182 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:42.120 the back of her skull and fired again point blank range, 183 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:47.759 putting two bullets through her brain, and she died. 184 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:59.320 Now you talk about what happens next, where the nine 185 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:04.879 one one call. That's crucial in this entire story. You've 186 00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:09.879 mentioned Jennifer, their daughter, Their son, Felix is in Hamilton 187 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:12.799 at school. I believe he's in Hamilton anyways, not at home. 188 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:16.759 Jennifer is there. Tell us by the time you talk 189 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:22.240 about these gunshots, what is happening at the same time 190 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:24.000 regarding Jennifer. 191 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:29.919 Okay, So after beck is shot, she slumps falls to 192 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:32.399 the floor and the men leave the home. There's three 193 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:40.000 of them. Jennifer, then, who's on the top floor bound 194 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:45.679 her wrists are bound against the against the banister, bound 195 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:49.759 behind her back, manages to call nine one one with 196 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:54.120 a cell phone that's been tucked into her yoga pants. 197 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:57.960 She calls nine one one and and while she's talking 198 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:01.279 to the operator screaming, help, help, We've just been robbed. 199 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:07.200 And I heard pops. You hear in the background of 200 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:11.639 the nine to one one call her father with this 201 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:17.279 sort of blood curdling scream and moan rising from the basement. 202 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:22.039 He's just just awoken from his I don't know what 203 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.840 you'd call it, I guess, after being shot in the 204 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:30.679 face to find his wife dead. And he's then rising 205 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:35.440 from this and coming up and immediately bolts out of 206 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:42.279 the house while his daughter is yelling down, Dad, I'm here, please, Dad. 207 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:47.320 Hand runs out the door, and the Jennifer's left on 208 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:51.320 the phone talking to the nine to one one call operator, 209 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.039 who's who has police there within minutes. 210 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:02.919 Now you talk about Handpan collapsing in his neighbor, right 211 00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:09.440 in front of his neighbor, Peter Cheng and so right 212 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:14.240 on the scene is Constable Mike Stesco, and in broken English, 213 00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:19.039 the hand somehow incredibly communicates there was a robbery and 214 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:23.600 intruders shot his wife and left his daughter inside. So 215 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:28.320 tell us what Mike Stesco, Carnival Constable Mason Baines, and 216 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:32.600 the people right at the scene do and find at 217 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:34.600 the scene, sure. 218 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:41.000 Hand, excuse me. Hann manages to convey the message that 219 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:43.759 his wife had been shot and he had been shot. 220 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:48.480 Because the bullet wound was not visible, he had blood 221 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:52.200 streaming from his face, but the police officers couldn't really 222 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:55.480 see how the blood or where the blood was coming from. 223 00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:01.120 So he motioned with his hands, forming a gun and 224 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:08.240 pointing to his head. So the police officers armed themselves 225 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:12.759 and their backs hit the wall of the home and 226 00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:16.279 they creep inside the home, not knowing who's inside the 227 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:21.840 house or outside. Two of the officers go downstairs and 228 00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:27.879 find Bick laying on the floor with a towel partially 229 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:33.559 over her face and a large pool of blood gathering 230 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:39.279 around her head. I believe they described the blood as 231 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:45.480 sort of a bluish red and very thick when they 232 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:50.080 when they approached her, one of the officers described her 233 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.720 skin while the other officer took her pulse. He was 234 00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:58.879 describing her skin as as already gray and blue her legs, 235 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.279 so he knew that she had already the life had 236 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.359 left her. Another officer, who was a rookie he was 237 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:14.119 just new in the country, originally from Scotland, was told 238 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:19.240 to go upstairs and find the daughter who was screaming, Jennifer. 239 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:26.680 So he went upstairs and talked to Jennifer. As he 240 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:30.400 was rising from the stairs, he holstered his gun, thinking 241 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:36.119 that the men had gone because the home looked perfectly 242 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:42.279 still and all they could hear was Jennifer's screams. When 243 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:45.559 he hollered up to her, are they gone? Are they gone? 244 00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:52.440 She answered, oddly enough, answered I don't know. I just 245 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:58.480 heard footsteps. So he again pulled out his pistol as 246 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:04.640 he slowly walked up their sideways and found her. He 247 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:08.000 then cleared the three bedrooms that he saw the four 248 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:13.240 bedroom excuse me, and proceeded to get a pair of 249 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:17.519 scissors from Jennifer's a nightstand, which she advised him of 250 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:27.759 to cut the rope that was binding her. She was hysterical, uninconsolable, 251 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:36.319 and the eternal Gentleman placed his jacket around her shoulders 252 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:40.160 and led her outside while hand was being put into 253 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:48.680 a stretcher, screaming, still trying to trying to gather his 254 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:52.039 mind around what had just occurred. She said to him 255 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:55.400 as he was being loaded into the ambulance, Daddy, are 256 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:59.039 you okay? That was the last thing he heard after 257 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:01.720 being rushed to hospital. 258 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:07.599 You say he was a rookie, but even that rookie 259 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:13.839 noticed the way she was tied to that banister. Tell 260 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:17.599 us what he did observe, not making any conclusions, but 261 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:20.000 just what he did observe about her being tied to 262 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:20.599 that banister. 263 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:26.599 He called it Copenhagen's mermaid. Now, if you can imagine 264 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:33.319 a mermaid, the way they may sit on the on 265 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.079 their tail. So she was sitting on her on the 266 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:40.079 bottom of her feet, but sort of to the side, 267 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:45.319 so her her legs were straddling her rear end, which 268 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:50.160 was touching the ground. Her arms were bound behind her 269 00:19:51.599 --> 00:20:01.039 to the banister, and she she I believe, really did 270 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:07.200 well at showing him that she was totally and utterly 271 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:12.480 distraught and distrusted, screaming and yelling and hysterical about what 272 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:15.519 had just occurred. 273 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:22.039 Now, the description she gives to the police is what 274 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:25.000 at that time, what does she say? How good a 275 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:27.079 look does she get? Tell us what she says to 276 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:31.400 police in terms of the three perpetrators, she claims were 277 00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:31.880 in the home. 278 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:39.839 So when she's when she's asked were they men, she says, 279 00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:46.799 I think. So when she's asked what color their skin was, 280 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:56.440 she said black, I think. And when she described them, 281 00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:00.599 she does a very poor job saying anything other than 282 00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:06.279 they were wearing hoodies and they had the guns. There 283 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:10.319 was nothing she described to the operators that would allow 284 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:15.200 them to get any hints or clues as to as 285 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:19.000 to who who had perpetrated this heinous crime. 286 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:25.880 Now you talk about four hours later, this hand pen 287 00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:31.240 is clinging to life and Jennifer is interviewed by Detective 288 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:34.519 Randy Slade, and he's a veteran of the homicide unit. 289 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:41.160 Two hour interview, and he tells her that the sworn 290 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:44.440 video statement is not accusatory, but it's a guarantee that 291 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:47.720 she tells the truth, and points out at that time 292 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:51.440 the penalty for lying being fourteen years. What does he 293 00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:54.160 observe in terms of her reaction to the statements he 294 00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:58.200 makes again, he does make conclusions. What does he observed. 295 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:05.039 Sure, it's important to realize that at this point Jennifer 296 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:11.319 was very much the victim and as far as anyone 297 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:16.480 knew she was, she had been home and was the 298 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:24.079 last surviving victim of a of a perfectly random home 299 00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:27.119 invasion in which two people were shot in the head, 300 00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:35.119 one of them died. So as you can imagine any 301 00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:43.880 sort of inkling that that Randy Slade notes to her 302 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:50.440 that this is she's accusing her, or that he's he's 303 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:53.880 sort of implying that she may be involved, he sort 304 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:57.920 of apologizes for because he can. He can he can 305 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:02.079 really sympathize with what she was going for through so 306 00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:06.079 he makes it very clear that she is not a suspect, 307 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.799 she's not a person of interest, She is the victim 308 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:15.359 and and really handled her with kid gloves through throughout 309 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:16.200 the first interview. 310 00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:23.559 Now, how far did they go in terms of this 311 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:28.160 interview in that two hours of doing anything in terms 312 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:32.319 of confiscating or looking at or warrant for contents of 313 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:35.079 her cell phone. 314 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:46.119 Nothing. This is if you can imagine Markham as a 315 00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:56.000 place that's so peaceful that there were fourteen home invasions 316 00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:04.200 the year before this kind of crime in Canada just 317 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:09.680 does not occur. And in those home invasions, people are 318 00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:15.599 not assaulted, and people are not bound up, and they're 319 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:22.079 certainly not shot or wounded. Usually it's a monetary thing. 320 00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:28.680 So for police, who had at this point absolutely no 321 00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:35.680 clues in such a peaceful place, they were really mystified 322 00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:43.960 by the crime, mostly because in their experience, random crimes 323 00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:51.759 don't happen percent of the time a crime is targeted. 324 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:59.160 This on its face appeared to be perfectly random. But 325 00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:05.079 if you ask any detective, they'll know and they'll explain 326 00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:12.400 to you that crimes aren't random. Men don't drive down 327 00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:17.640 a street looking for the biggest house usually and then 328 00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:23.640 just waltz in with guns demanding money. Usually there's a 329 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:29.640 tip or some information, or they know the person, or 330 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:34.279 they know that there's a safe in the basement. So 331 00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:39.160 for police, they were I would say the accurate term 332 00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:44.640 is bewildered, and certainly didn't want to lay blame at 333 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:45.880 Jennifer's feet. 334 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:50.000 Now, they didn't want to lay blame, but they did 335 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:53.319 assess the crime scene and in terms of motive for 336 00:25:53.400 --> 00:26:01.799 this particularly gruesome murder, what was the likelihood of that 337 00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:07.799 this motive was robbery? And what didn't they steal, including 338 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:09.759 Alexis and a Mercedes. 339 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:17.599 Sure, so, when when you're a detective, from what the 340 00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:21.599 detectives working on the case told me, you have to 341 00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:29.680 work with the facts. So it may seem bizarre to 342 00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:32.799 them that someone just broke in and shot two people 343 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:38.119 and stole a bit of money, But they can't then 344 00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:41.799 jump to conclusions and say, well, this seems like an 345 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:45.200 inside job. They have to work with what they've got. 346 00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:50.680 So when they enter in the home, they noticed that handpans, 347 00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:57.079 bed has been completely ramshackled by the intruders. They noticed 348 00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:04.720 that has purse has been rifled through. They also noticed 349 00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:15.359 that Jennifer had lost two thousand dollars to the men, 350 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:22.599 So initially they believed that this was the robbery. Now, 351 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:30.799 particularly inquisitive detectives would have noticed, as you said, that 352 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:37.400 there was still money in bick Hau's purse, not much, 353 00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:46.240 but certainly twenty forty sixty dollars. The TV was still there, 354 00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:52.079 the electronics were still there. Two cars, including a Mercedes 355 00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:55.559 and a Benz were still in the driveway in the garage. 356 00:27:55.559 --> 00:28:02.240 Excuse me. So there were hints that something was awry, 357 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:09.880 but far be it from a detective to make accusations 358 00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.440 based on mere hints. 359 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.880 Same time, what they do is their due diligence, and 360 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.240 they have a technique, and they have techniques in terms 361 00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:28.359 of further interviews and to look for inconsistencies, to look 362 00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:33.720 for again reaction, but mostly inconsistencies, and if they can 363 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:39.720 get any more information by a further interview. So there isn't, 364 00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:43.440 as you right later, there is no DNA evidence, there 365 00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:46.799 is no weapons found, there is no bloody clothing found. 366 00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:53.000 So how to police proceed and tell us about the 367 00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:55.480 next interview? 368 00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:01.440 So what police get? What police have the beginning scares them, 369 00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:05.279 I believe, and they put on They put forty officers 370 00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:09.480 on the case because they realize that they have very little. 371 00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:12.240 As you said, there is no there is no DNA, 372 00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:19.279 there is no weapon, there is no bloody clothes, there 373 00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:27.960 are no footprints. There happens to be footage from across 374 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:32.799 the street, video surveillance footage of a car driving up, 375 00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:36.079 parking and then driving away, but it's so dark and 376 00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:41.839 so poor that it shows very little else. So what 377 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.799 they put out as a result of Jennifer's first interview, 378 00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:50.640 in which she, by the way, calls the intruders refers 379 00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:56.240 to them as gentlemen at one point, which is another 380 00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:02.519 odd sort of happening. So they get that three black 381 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:08.039 male intruders entered into the home. One of them had 382 00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:13.039 dreads and was short and stocky, another was tall with 383 00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:17.240 an oval face, and a third seemed to have a 384 00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:22.720 Caribbean accent of some sort, but the face his face 385 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:26.400 was never seen. They also saw that it was a 386 00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:35.119 late model silver Accura with tinted windows, similar to a Civic. 387 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:39.079 So this is what really all they have to go on. 388 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:46.160 And then there are these puzzling details like the two 389 00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.680 cars are still there, and there's still money there, and 390 00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:53.359 there's expensive camera equipment, and there was a safe that 391 00:30:53.440 --> 00:31:00.000 was never broken into. So when the second interview comes around, 392 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:07.400 the detectives explain to Randy that he needs to be 393 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:14.400 more forceful with Jennifer because there were some inconsistencies. Now, 394 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:17.680 one of the main inconsistencies. Now your sharp listeners will 395 00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:22.640 see will may may think, how did she call the 396 00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:28.119 police nine to one one with her cell phone when 397 00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:31.799 her hands were bound behind her back. So in the 398 00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:39.960 second interview, Randy Slade asks her, gives her a phone, 399 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:43.160 a dummy phone, and says, show me how you called 400 00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:49.119 the police with your hands bound behind your back, And 401 00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:54.200