Speaker 1: Live from the heart of the nation's capital. This is
Speaker 1: a Jim Acosta Show special report.
Speaker 2: All right, hey, everybody, welcome to the Jim Acosta Show.
Speaker 2: And it's seventy seven days until the midterms in America
Speaker 2: and the White House this week, let it be known
Speaker 2: in no uncertain terms that it really, really, definitely does
Speaker 2: not want to hear questions about Natalie Harp. Let's discuss
Speaker 2: with Jonathy, last of the Bulwark. Jonathan, great to see
Speaker 2: you as always. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 3: Jim, Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1: Buddy. Oh, it's good to be with you too.
Speaker 2: And I mean, you know, just to catch I don't
Speaker 2: think people need to be caught up to speed, but
Speaker 2: just in case. Natalie Harp, the aid of Donald Trump,
Speaker 2: who has been dubbed the human printer. I think Maggie
Speaker 2: Haberman has referred to Natalie Harp as Trump's binky, kind
Speaker 2: of like a security blanket. You know, we saw what
Speaker 2: took place. I guess it was what over the weekend
Speaker 2: where John Ossoff, Senator from Georgia, says he doesn't want
Speaker 2: to do the job talking about Trump.
Speaker 1: He wants to build his ballroom.
Speaker 2: Travel with Natalie on their apparently defenseless flying palace gifted
Speaker 2: by the emirror of Cutter. And I want to get
Speaker 2: into my former colleague Christen Holmes a scene and asking
Speaker 2: about that, and then Trump blowing his top and going
Speaker 2: nuts and the White House going nuts on this. But
Speaker 2: it seems to me that John Ossoff is playing Trump
Speaker 2: like a Harp. I mean, you know, you know he
Speaker 2: came on glued yesterday, and I think that was the
Speaker 2: desired effect from John Ossoff.
Speaker 3: I mean, he sure squealed like it was a soft spot,
Speaker 3: didn't he. And uh, I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 3: your audience knows this, but the weirdest thing about Natalie
Speaker 3: Harp is not the stuff we know now about her,
Speaker 3: like getting in the catering van the catering trolley with
Speaker 3: Trump and Dan Scavino and all that. The weird thing
Speaker 3: is that should they call her the human printer? Because
Speaker 3: for the last many years she has carried around a
Speaker 3: battery powered portable printer which she uses to print out
Speaker 3: stories or comments from the Internet that she thinks Donald
Speaker 3: Trump will like and then hand them to him in
Speaker 3: real time. Right, it's the craziest thing I've ever heard, Right,
Speaker 3: because they understand that the boss needs a constant stream
Speaker 3: of affirmations, and so she is always there, like on
Speaker 3: her phone, finding a nice thing to print. And of course,
Speaker 3: because he's an old person, you can't just like show
Speaker 3: him the phone. You have to like print it out
Speaker 3: on paper because otherwise it's not real, right, Yeah, And
Speaker 3: so Asoff makes this dig, and Trump and everybody in
Speaker 3: Trump world immediately seems to assume that this is an
Speaker 3: insinuation of some sort of untoward relationship, when the reality
Speaker 3: is from the Maggie Haberman and John this one book,
Speaker 3: it would actually be much more normal if there was
Speaker 3: some sort of improper relationship, because instead what we have
Speaker 3: is this case of a woman whose function is to
Speaker 3: walk around with a battery powered portable printer and print
Speaker 3: things out and hand him and she all on her own,
Speaker 3: writes Little mash notes that she rides around the residence
Speaker 3: for him to see, just for him to stumble upon
Speaker 3: in what she tells me what a great man he is.
Speaker 3: That is way fucking weirder than the idea that maybe
Speaker 3: he's having an affair with her or something.
Speaker 2: Right, and then there's this whole story, I think Sarah
Speaker 2: Matthews the former White House Deputy Press secretary told where
Speaker 2: she said that, you know, aids around Trump were so
Speaker 2: concerned about Natalie Harp that didn't want her around. I
Speaker 2: think it was at Bedminster, and then she started to
Speaker 2: hide out in the in the women's locker room at
Speaker 2: Bedminster so she could continue to be in his orbit,
Speaker 2: be around him, and that sort of thing. And so, yeah,
Speaker 2: very strange, very peculiar behavior. But I'm with you, Jonathan.
Speaker 2: I think it says more about Trump's fractured psyche that
Speaker 2: he needs a Natalie Harp sort of hovering around him
Speaker 2: to you know, puff him up, you know, every chance
Speaker 2: that he needs it. And it's it's very it's very strange.
Speaker 2: And I think John oss Off, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: somebody had to get this party started and say what
Speaker 2: the fuck is going on with this?
Speaker 1: It's strange. Yeah, yeah, it's a weird thing.
Speaker 3: I can't I mean, Trump is the most powerful man
Speaker 3: in the world, right, Like, what does he need somebody,
Speaker 3: you know, forty five years younger than he is printing
Speaker 3: out notes for him to make him feel again. It
Speaker 3: just boy, there's a lot going on there.
Speaker 1: It's weird. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then of course, you know I mean, don't put
Speaker 2: any of these people around a poker table, Donald Trump
Speaker 2: or any of the age over at the White House,
Speaker 2: because they had an incredible tell during this photo opportunity.
Speaker 1: I guess it was yesterday.
Speaker 2: Kristen Holmes, a CNN former colleague of mine, asked about
Speaker 2: John Ossoff and what he said, and he kind of
Speaker 2: answered the question in sort of a normal Trumpian way there.
Speaker 2: He didn't blow his top at that point. He just said,
Speaker 2: weird shit. Let's play that.
Speaker 4: Don Off that said.
Speaker 5: He'd be rather travel with your aid Natalie Harp and
Speaker 5: build the ballroom than do your job as president.
Speaker 4: What is John off of?
Speaker 6: You mean? Pee wee herman, pe wee herman. Look a lot. No,
Speaker 6: I would much rather do other things. It's say, we're
Speaker 6: building a great facility here, we're fixing a White House
Speaker 6: that hasn't been taken care of. The whole building. The
Speaker 6: White House was let go. The exteriors were falling apart,
Speaker 6: the columns were falling apart, the whole place was a mess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Jav, I mean that wasn't really when he
Speaker 2: got I mean, he said weird shit there, and he
Speaker 2: went and talked about the ballroom.
Speaker 1: But it was.
Speaker 2: It was later on when another reporter was asking about
Speaker 2: how he's going to betray South Korea. I guess I
Speaker 2: don't know WHI there's this whole subcontext met with in
Speaker 2: South Korea anyway that this whole thing get started, and
Speaker 2: Kristen tries to interject and ask another question, and then
Speaker 2: he goes bananas to.
Speaker 4: Scale back on those Quiet.
Speaker 6: You're very disrespectful in front of this young man. Okay,
Speaker 6: don't you find her disrespectful? You can't understands?
Speaker 1: Quiet? Who are you with?
Speaker 4: And we're seeing that news. I just wanted to follow
Speaker 4: up on this South yours.
Speaker 6: You're a loud, boisterous person in your faith.
Speaker 5: I was trying to find out if you had been
Speaker 5: talking to King, if you had asked you to scale
Speaker 5: bout on the plitary excess salary.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then and then it goes into the Rapid Response
Speaker 2: team over at the White House, Rapid Response forty seven,
Speaker 2: which might as well be called in Cell forty seven.
Speaker 2: They sort of behave like that on social media. Some
Speaker 2: day your children will come across your disgusting and inhumane question,
Speaker 2: they tweet, this is an official White House government account.
Speaker 2: They will be sick and embarrassed to have a parent
Speaker 2: be so callous and vindictive.
Speaker 1: It's quite troubling. And I wrote a self whole sub
Speaker 1: stick about this JV. I you know I was. This
Speaker 1: made me so livid. I don't talk about seeing them
Speaker 1: very much.
Speaker 2: It's just like it's my old shop and now I'm
Speaker 2: here and I'm enjoying this. But I don't like the
Speaker 2: way he denigrated my friend Kristin. I will just say that,
Speaker 2: and I just the way he denigrates women.
Speaker 1: Reporters is disgraceful and despicable.
Speaker 2: And the way other reporters don't stand up for one
Speaker 2: another makes me sick to this to my stomach.
Speaker 1: But your thoughts on all.
Speaker 3: This, yeah, you know so I never you did that.
Speaker 3: Gig you you know you stood around and asked questions
Speaker 3: of the president. I never did that. I don't understand
Speaker 3: why the reporters in the room allow that.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 3: And if you you know, if if the president of
Speaker 3: the United States does that to one of your colleagues
Speaker 3: and then turns to you and says go ahead, seems
Speaker 3: just seems to me your response should be no, I'd
Speaker 3: like to hear you answer her.
Speaker 1: Question yes exactly, or knock it off, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're roll in the guild, right, yeah, I mean, and.
Speaker 2: The wh h to my understanding, even at this hour,
Speaker 2: I'll go back. I can check see if I'm wrong
Speaker 2: about As of earlier today, they had not said anything.
Speaker 1: And it's so weird.
Speaker 2: I don't understand why nobody just stands up for somebody
Speaker 2: in this town. And it's it's it's rather disgraceful, I
Speaker 2: have to say. And it's weak, weak sauce.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: It's funny like back in the day people used to
Speaker 3: complain like, oh, all this fake civility between the you know,
Speaker 3: the administration people regardless of administration, and the repress and
Speaker 3: it's gross. And I get that, right, I mean, you
Speaker 3: have a lot of people playing parts in doing kabuki theater,
Speaker 3: but at least it was civilized. And now you have
Speaker 3: this one side of kabuka like where Trump can just
Speaker 3: say whatever he wants and then the press all just
Speaker 3: sits and pretends that it's normal and addresses him like
Speaker 3: it's all normal. And I don't. I just don't get who's.
Speaker 1: Served by that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't either, And I just think that you know,
Speaker 2: when you have people on a government social media account
Speaker 2: tweeting those sorts of things. It says to me that
Speaker 2: there's a real cult life atmosphere inside that White House,
Speaker 2: an extremely weird and unhealthy situation going on inside that
Speaker 2: White House where they feel like they have to lash out,
Speaker 2: And it just reveals that there are questions to be
Speaker 2: asked about Natalie Harp and this strange relationship whatever it is.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. You know, maybe it's
Speaker 1: just a personal friendship.
Speaker 2: I have no idea, but I mean, as you know,
Speaker 2: when they act that way, it makes you want to
Speaker 2: ask more questions.
Speaker 1: So I don't know what the strategy is there. It
Speaker 1: seems stupid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now it's it is crazy to me. And also
Speaker 3: again just the rank hypocrisy of the Trump people then
Speaker 3: going and saying, oh, how uncivil. Yes, then calls people
Speaker 3: piggy and whose entire brand is that, Like, we don't
Speaker 3: have to play by the fake Norman normality anymore, and
Speaker 3: it's okay to be rough around the edges and insult
Speaker 3: people by now they're like, oh, dare you my delicate honor?
Speaker 1: Yes exactly, guys. It's obnoxious.
Speaker 2: And part of this, I think is because I've been
Speaker 2: talking about this on much. I mean, the second administration
Speaker 2: for Donald Trump has been an absolute spectacular failure.
Speaker 1: It is, you know, it's.
Speaker 2: In a nose dive, and he's lashing out on a
Speaker 2: daily basis because I think even he knows deep down,
Speaker 2: despite the deer leader treatment he gets all the time,
Speaker 2: that he has completely shipped the bad. You know, he's
Speaker 2: tweeting things like that the US now controls the Strait
Speaker 2: of War moves as a US territory. I hope we
Speaker 2: could show that there's I mean, that's I you know,
Speaker 2: I've run out of words. Maybe it's because I've been
Speaker 2: off a little bit, you know here and there, and
Speaker 2: I you know, John helped me out here. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is this is some strange cuckoo for Coco Pops
Speaker 2: North Korea stuff that's going on.
Speaker 3: So I claiming the Strait as a US territory is
Speaker 3: one of the things that I just looked at. And
Speaker 3: if you wind back the clock to the before times
Speaker 3: ten years ago, if any US president had done that,
Speaker 3: it would have been almost immediate grounds for like twenty
Speaker 3: fifth Amendment, because what that means if we are claiming
Speaker 3: that we're going to annex this and make it US territory.
Speaker 3: That is an attack on the rest of the entire world.
Speaker 3: This is Tradeformers is an international waterway governed by international law.
Speaker 3: I believe the term of art maritime law is harmless passage,
Speaker 3: just granted to all people trying to transit. And what
Speaker 3: this tweet says, if you take it I face value,
Speaker 3: because he's the President of the States, is we are
Speaker 3: overriding unilaterally, overlining international law. We now control this waterway,
Speaker 3: and you guys will all suffer at our own, our
Speaker 3: own wishes for it. That's an active war. And yet
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if two percent of America
Speaker 3: will ever even see this happen. Everyone just goes, well,
Speaker 3: you know, it's Trump, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 1: Exactly No.
Speaker 2: And the other two is, I mean, this war is
Speaker 2: deeply unpopular as it is, and it's really just, you know,
Speaker 2: an air war where we're bombing the shit out of
Speaker 2: stuff and then drones wreek havoc in the Strait and
Speaker 2: that has kind of resulted in the stalemate. Taking over
Speaker 2: the Straight of Hormus as a US territory would require
Speaker 2: a much larger military presence, and we can't even feed
Speaker 2: from the sailors of permanent, permanent.
Speaker 1: I mean, Puerto Rico is a US territory, you know,
Speaker 1: like it.
Speaker 2: Would be like that, and uh and we know what
Speaker 2: he thinks of Puerto Rico. But you know the thing
Speaker 2: is is like this, this would I mean, this would
Speaker 2: exacerbate what is already a colossal screw up for him.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And again, I just I look at this, and
Speaker 3: it is funny to me that nobody, nobody pretends that
Speaker 3: the words of the President of the United States mean anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you if it's Joe Biden. God, well,
Speaker 3: you know he said this one thing that was only
Speaker 3: fifty percent at one time, and how dari you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, we really have to question everything with Trump.
Speaker 3: It's just well, you know, he just says stuff, what
Speaker 3: are you gonna do?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And this, you know, is like when he was going
Speaker 3: to take over Greenland, right when he was just talking
Speaker 3: about South Korea and how South Korea you know, we
Speaker 3: like them a little bit less. We liked our North
Speaker 3: Korean friends a little more. And I this is a
Speaker 3: real question for you, Jim. Is this permanent or is
Speaker 3: this just unique to Trump? Is it Trump has some
Speaker 3: special magic that the whole I mean and I don't
Speaker 3: mean just like the American voters, Oh that's part of it,
Speaker 3: or just the media. Yeah, the whole international order looks
Speaker 3: at this and just is like, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 1: John?
Speaker 2: I will tell you I it's a great question, and
Speaker 2: it's something I've wrestled with for some time. I will
Speaker 2: tell you I do some functions around DC from time
Speaker 2: to time where all go to this diplomatic function of
Speaker 2: that diplomatic function. And I told this story recently on
Speaker 2: the show, where a pretty close US allied ambassador for
Speaker 2: that country came up to me at a party. This
Speaker 2: was about a month ago or so and said, Jim,
Speaker 2: this was after I think this was after and when
Speaker 2: he gave the crazy batshit election conspiracy theory speech, which
Speaker 2: we've all flushed out of our systems because we just
Speaker 2: move on to the next crazy dark that he does.
Speaker 2: And this ambassador said to me, Jim, this reminds me
Speaker 2: of nineteen thirties Germany. What is happening in America right now?
Speaker 2: And then another ambassador for another major US ally standing
Speaker 2: next to this person was nodding and saying, Yep, that's
Speaker 2: what it reminds me of. Two And people need to
Speaker 2: understand the rest of the world is starting to form
Speaker 2: this conclusion that the United States of America is just
Speaker 2: in a serious fucking jam right now, and nobody knows
Speaker 2: how we're going to get out of this, and this
Speaker 2: whole idea that some Democratic candidate's going to ride in
Speaker 2: on a white horse and change everything overnight.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know what you.
Speaker 2: Guys think over the bulwark. You guys have some various
Speaker 2: two political observers over there as you are. I'm curious
Speaker 2: what you think.
Speaker 1: Of that question before we go.
Speaker 3: I don't know the answer, Yeah, and nobody does, right,
Speaker 3: nobody knows the answer. We'll find out. My concern is
Speaker 3: that at the end of the day, this isn't really
Speaker 3: a Trump problem. It's an America problem. You know, seventy
Speaker 3: seven million people voted for him. They knew what it was,
Speaker 3: you know, they saw him attempt to coop, they saw
Speaker 3: they lived through COVID, right, I mean, they and those
Speaker 3: seventy seven million people don't go away, And so what
Speaker 3: is it. Either they are unseerious people or they're pernicious
Speaker 3: people who want Trump. And I don't even know which
Speaker 3: is worse. Honestly, I don't you know, there's a famous line,
Speaker 3: you know, attributed to some European under secretary of something
Speaker 3: said that, like, you know, look, in Europe, we now
Speaker 3: realize that we cannot have the fate of the Western
Speaker 3: order hanging on the will of forty thousand voters in
Speaker 3: Wisconsin every four years. That's right, And I think that's
Speaker 3: what the rest of the world is going. If you
Speaker 3: just I mean, if you look at the European defense industry,
Speaker 3: like they are pouring money into their own defense industrial complex,
Speaker 3: they are decoupling from America, South Korea, Japan and the
Speaker 3: Philippines and everybody over in Asia is going to be
Speaker 3: decoupling from America as fast as possible. That's right, because
Speaker 3: it isn't enough to just replace Trump with President whoever, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, what would have to happen is you would
Speaker 3: have to demonstrate that the American people realize the Trump decade,
Speaker 3: the Trump back age, was a mistake, and that they
Speaker 3: are really you know, they've learned from it and become
Speaker 3: more serious and whatnot.
Speaker 4: And I don't know that that's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. I totally agree with you.
Speaker 2: Well, Jonathan v Last, thank you so much for coming
Speaker 2: on today.
Speaker 1: Great to catch up.
Speaker 2: Let's do this again soon and don't be a stranger there, kid,
Speaker 2: Let's let's do this again.
Speaker 3: Thanks anytime, my friend.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having good to.
Speaker 2: See you, JVL of the Bulwark, the Great Bullwark, doing
Speaker 2: great stuff. Thanks, thanks so much, Bohn. I want to
Speaker 2: quickly go to my next guest, the wonderful, the talented,
Speaker 2: the amazing Ali Vitally of MS now. Ali, it's great
Speaker 2: to see you, as as you say on MS down
Speaker 2: and some other anchors eight my friend, they say they
Speaker 2: thanks for joining me, my friend, but.
Speaker 4: You are my friend, of course is you are my friend?
Speaker 1: We are friends. I know it's so true. Here it's
Speaker 1: great to have you on.
Speaker 2: And it's a primary day across a lot of states,
Speaker 2: and we've had lots of primaries over the last several weeks.
Speaker 1: I want to get to that.
Speaker 2: But you can also say, Jim, shut up if I
Speaker 2: ask you about this, because you and I were on
Speaker 2: the twenty sixteen campaign together and we I mean we
Speaker 2: had I guess we were baptized by fire, as they say,
Speaker 2: with Donald Trump covering him and Kristin Holmes's our friend.
Speaker 2: What did you think of that whole thing? I wrote
Speaker 2: a whole thing for my substack about it. I was
Speaker 2: very hurt by what I saw and what the White
Speaker 2: House did on top of that, with that rapid response account.
Speaker 2: Your thoughts on all this, and then we'll get to
Speaker 2: what I told you we would talk about.
Speaker 4: I had to ask you have carte blanche as always?
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, Kristin was out there with us in
Speaker 5: twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen.
Speaker 4: She's a close personal friend.
Speaker 5: Obviously, it's never nice when you see your friends be
Speaker 5: attacked for doing their jobs, let alone.
Speaker 4: A good job at their jobs.
Speaker 5: And she is just such a fantastic reporter who is
Speaker 5: always asking tough questions and questions frankly that we needed
Speaker 5: to know the answers to. She was trying to get
Speaker 5: a sense of, like when did you talk to Kim
Speaker 5: Jong un? Why were you rolling back the South Korea
Speaker 5: joint exercises? And of course also what John Assoff said
Speaker 5: about Natalie Harp and the other things that Trump is
Speaker 5: doing as part of his his administration. And so it
Speaker 5: doesn't feel good to see that for your friend. But
Speaker 5: then I think the bigger question here is the way
Speaker 5: that the rapid response account brought her kids into this.
Speaker 4: I mean, they're young. And also like there is.
Speaker 5: An unspoken role in this world where like you don't
Speaker 5: talk about kids who are not in the business or
Speaker 5: actively in politics. And I mean, I'm sure you. I
Speaker 5: know I have gone to great length to like put
Speaker 5: a camera down when a kid has been like getting
Speaker 5: in the car someone who happens to be running for something. Right,
Speaker 5: So like the idea that this White House is not
Speaker 5: just stepping over that barrier but smashing it as they
Speaker 5: do with everything else. Right, it's not shocking, but it
Speaker 5: is really disheartening and really scary.
Speaker 4: And he does this to women.
Speaker 5: I mean that account attacks everybody, but the president seems
Speaker 5: to have a particular problem with female reporters who hold
Speaker 5: their ground, who ask questions that he doesn't want to answer.
Speaker 5: And she's not doing that for herself, Like she is
Speaker 5: doing it to get the American public the best understanding
Speaker 5: of a number of issues. And I think that's what
Speaker 5: people should keep in mind. It's not us talking about like, oh,
Speaker 5: our friend, like that was hard to see. It's like,
Speaker 5: why isn't he answering questions that could help an American
Speaker 5: public better understand the moves of his administration?
Speaker 4: And it's because everything's a distraction from something else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I totally agree with all of that. I
Speaker 2: think that's so important what you just said. And I
Speaker 2: really wish and I know that folks will say, oh
Speaker 2: that that's nice that you say that, Jim, it's little
Speaker 2: pie in the sky, little pollyannish.
Speaker 1: I do wish that another reporter.
Speaker 2: I mean, like as Peter Alexander did for me way
Speaker 2: back in the day when Trump came after him. Peter,
Speaker 2: like our friend Peter Alexander, who is our friend.
Speaker 1: Stood up for me. I would like to see more
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 2: And I don't think that's unreasonable, and I don't think
Speaker 2: that should get somebody in trouble with their boss at
Speaker 2: the at the bureau or at the office. If you
Speaker 2: defend your.
Speaker 5: Comus in that pool now, right, Like true, it's not
Speaker 5: the same you know, crop of folks who all want
Speaker 5: the same good faith Q and A. At least I
Speaker 5: don't know who else was in the pool that day.
Speaker 5: I'm just saying generally, it's a different landscape.
Speaker 1: Now, that's true. That's very true.
Speaker 2: Well, and you and I got used to that ugliest
Speaker 2: ugliness nine years ago, and so it's not.
Speaker 1: Was it not ten years ago, gosh, eleven years ago
Speaker 1: in your case, I don't know. I mean you were
Speaker 1: there as an embed at the very.
Speaker 2: Beginning, and we all, I mean it was like, we
Speaker 2: went to these rallies with ten twenty thousand people screaming
Speaker 2: crazy stuff at us, and so we kind of all
Speaker 2: get used to it, and maybe we normalize it a
Speaker 2: little bit.
Speaker 1: But it shouldn't be normalized. This should not be normal
Speaker 1: and then I'll move on to something else.
Speaker 5: But I think I think we're in the place where
Speaker 5: it's like, if that's not the thing that's being normalized,
Speaker 5: then something else is. And like there's only so much
Speaker 5: oxygen to call out the abnormalities.
Speaker 4: So it's like, what do.
Speaker 2: You I don't know, Ali, what do you think about
Speaker 2: these midterm primaries? I guess there are some happening in
Speaker 2: Florida today. The Wall Street Journal, speaking of all the
Speaker 2: messiness in the news, The Wall Street Journal had an
Speaker 2: interesting story that basically said, you know, messy midterms. A
Speaker 2: pile up of sexual misconduct cases in front of the
Speaker 2: House Ethics Committee is casting more uncertainty of there's several
Speaker 2: races in the run up to midterms. Corey Mills of Florida,
Speaker 2: Max Miller of Ohio both under investigation.
Speaker 1: Chuck Edwards ended his bid after a pro was announced.
Speaker 2: The Panels also investigating Jimmy Gomez, California Democrat. In that case,
Speaker 2: obviously everybody is innocent, so otherwise and all those caveats
Speaker 2: and so on, But it really is changing the dynamic
Speaker 2: of these midterms.
Speaker 5: It changes the dynamics of the midterms because even just
Speaker 5: take two of the cases that you're talking about, right,
Speaker 5: Corey Mills is facing a prime challenger down in Florida's
Speaker 5: seventh district, and we'll see if he makes it out.
Speaker 5: Hasn't been a particularly favorable season two incumbents on both
Speaker 5: sides of the aisle. And then in Max Miller's case,
Speaker 5: I mean, he's a stubborn man and he has vehemently
Speaker 5: denied the allegations against him, and we're going to see
Speaker 5: what ultimately happens. But it is a mess, and Democratic
Speaker 5: groups are taking advantage of the fact that it is
Speaker 5: a mess, and that Republicans are uncomfortable having to defend
Speaker 5: this person as one of their own in a seat
Speaker 5: that like kind of teeters on the edge of being purpleish,
Speaker 5: like it is red, but enough of a controversy could
Speaker 5: make this gettable, especially in a year that has a wave.
Speaker 4: And so you go from having a seat that shouldn't
Speaker 4: be a problem and.
Speaker 5: Shouldn't be talked about to now because of one person
Speaker 5: saying I'm not getting out of the race, the party
Speaker 5: now has a problem where I'm not someone who thinks
Speaker 5: that this is a year that is traded of like
Speaker 5: twenty thirty forty seats, Like you just don't have that
Speaker 5: many swing seats anymore. But like he is putting one
Speaker 5: more in play and should have to be in play.
Speaker 4: Theoretically for Republicans.
Speaker 5: And so that's just one, I mean, like put it
Speaker 5: on top of the pile because they have other more
Speaker 5: fundamental problems, but like that is one of them. So
Speaker 5: we'll see what happens in Florida. I think that's going
Speaker 5: to be an interesting race. It could solve a Republican
Speaker 5: problem for them if he loses Corey Mills in that primary.
Speaker 4: But we'll see.
Speaker 2: Well, and you said something very interesting there. You are
Speaker 2: you saying that you don't think that and I know
Speaker 2: you're not saying this absolutely certainty, we can't do that
Speaker 2: anymore in this day and age, but that we may
Speaker 2: not see a massive wave election this time around because
Speaker 2: of what because of redistricting, because of all of that.
Speaker 2: Larry Sabata was telling me this something similar to the
Speaker 2: other day, that you know, because of the redistricting, we
Speaker 2: may not see as large of a wave as we
Speaker 2: might have otherwise.
Speaker 1: How do you see it shaping up?
Speaker 5: I just think we see a consistently shrinking swing and
Speaker 5: there are I don't know if it's seventeen or eighteen.
Speaker 5: Everyone has their different counts, the parties have their own counts,
Speaker 5: but it's like seventeen or eighteen per seats. And I
Speaker 5: think a lot of the redistricting in places like Texas
Speaker 5: or even in places like Florida, like we'll see how
Speaker 5: red they actually made those seats, because I'm not sure
Speaker 5: that they did themselves every favor. They helped themselves Republicans,
Speaker 5: but like, I don't think they like sealed the ballgame
Speaker 5: because I don't think it's going to be as predictable
Speaker 5: of a wave or of a year as we think.
Speaker 4: But I still don't believe that.
Speaker 5: You know, if Democrats take the House back, that they're
Speaker 5: going to be doing it with a fifteen seat cushion
Speaker 5: and Frankly, sources that I talk to among senior congressional
Speaker 5: Democrats don't think that either, Like it is just a
Speaker 5: reality of covering Congress and of covering campaigns, that you
Speaker 5: were just dealing with thin margins and that's why, you know.
Speaker 5: I have people say to me a lot, like why
Speaker 5: do you pay so much attention to the one or
Speaker 5: two Democratic socialists selected in places like New York?
Speaker 4: Like who cares? It doesn't matter?
Speaker 5: It's like, well it does when your caucus can only
Speaker 5: afford to lose three or four votes. And we're watching
Speaker 5: it play out with Republicans right now, like they have
Speaker 5: guinea pigs this and it's gonna happen for Democrats if
Speaker 5: not this cycle, then we'll see what comes next, right.
Speaker 1: I mean interesting, it's always she.
Speaker 4: Was always on the other foot, And.
Speaker 1: Do you think that?
Speaker 2: And we should note everybody Ali is the host of
Speaker 2: Way too Early on the MS now but also congressional
Speaker 2: correspondent up on Capitol Hills. So does an amazing job.
Speaker 2: And I don't know how you are awake right now.
Speaker 2: I'll have to send you like some kind of snack
Speaker 2: or something later to thank you for this, But how
Speaker 2: I haven't done a whole lot on the on the
Speaker 2: on the DSA factor in all of this. My sense
Speaker 2: of it has been is that, Okay, you have a
Speaker 2: couple of candidates here and there, and but they may wait,
Speaker 2: they may win democratic districts anyway.
Speaker 1: Is that the case?
Speaker 2: Or could there be a seat that is lost because
Speaker 2: a DSA candidate was there and not an establishment candidate
Speaker 2: who might have held a purple kind of seat.
Speaker 4: Well, actually that might bring us to Florida, right because.
Speaker 5: Jaredkowitz is going up against a DSA candidate, and I
Speaker 5: think the prevailing wisdom there is that if Moskowitz loses
Speaker 5: the primary, then it might be a tougher seat, and
Speaker 5: so that could be an instance. But generally you're right.
Speaker 4: It's like predictive seats.
Speaker 5: But I think for Democrats who are focusing on this, like, yeah,
Speaker 5: the governing perspective is one part of it, but I
Speaker 5: also think that they just have to play the game
Speaker 5: of addition, Like I recognize that it's important to have
Speaker 5: a north star, and it is a party that is
Speaker 5: searching for what that is right now, and everyone's looking
Speaker 5: for what's instructive for the Democratic round of presidential candidates,
Speaker 5: but for Congress they just have to grow their numbers.
Speaker 4: And Kate Conley.
Speaker 5: Could maybe win in New York seventeen and Daria Lisa
Speaker 5: could maybe win in the Harlem area of New York.
Speaker 5: And those two candidates would lose if they were in
Speaker 5: each other's districts, right, And Kate Conley's in a really
Speaker 5: tough seat, and we don't know she'll beat Mike Lawler.
Speaker 5: But like that's even just one example in the same state,
Speaker 5: Like you pick the candidate for the district, and that's
Speaker 5: just what it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really And the other thing too, is these
Speaker 2: Senate races are becoming much more unpredictable than I I
Speaker 2: think a lot of people expected like that, I mean
Speaker 2: Shared Brown.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Again, I don't know whether to believe these polls anymore
Speaker 2: because of what happened in Wisconsin. The Francesca hank Canon
Speaker 2: ended up.
Speaker 4: Did you see now? The polling firm was like, we're
Speaker 4: shutting it down.
Speaker 1: I saw that. I saw that.
Speaker 2: But Shared Brown is apparently ahead and his Senate race,
Speaker 2: that's wild, and so Democrats may make gains and places
Speaker 2: like Iowa and Ohio and maybe you know, maybe I
Speaker 2: don't know, Florida could David Jolly win the governor's race.
Speaker 2: There I saw Fox freaking out over David Jolly. I
Speaker 2: was like, why is Fox freaking out over David Jolly?
Speaker 2: That sounds like somebody knows something. So this is a
Speaker 2: weird year and I don't know what. I don't know
Speaker 2: if we know what we know at this point.
Speaker 5: I mean, would you have imagined that going into twenty
Speaker 5: twenty six people would be like, I don't need to
Speaker 5: talk about Roy Cooper. I don't need to talk about
Speaker 5: John ass Off, Like Georgia and North Carolina are seats
Speaker 5: that Democrats are riding in feeling good about.
Speaker 1: That's true, I mean very true.
Speaker 4: And the sight of that too much because that's a
Speaker 4: good point.
Speaker 1: That's a good point.
Speaker 2: And John Asoff is doing a lot of media, but
Speaker 2: I think it's not because of twenty twenty six. I
Speaker 2: just I'm just going to throw that out there as
Speaker 2: as just an educated guess on my part, But he
Speaker 2: isn't very as somebody who's been out on the campaign
Speaker 2: trail in a presidential alley, your thoughts on the John
Speaker 2: Ossoff moment that we seem to be in right now,
Speaker 2: As I said at the top of this, and because
Speaker 2: you're you know, esteamed anchor. You don't have to chuckle
Speaker 2: up my joke. But he does seem to be playing
Speaker 2: Trump like a harp these days.
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, no, he is. And he also has
Speaker 5: the cadence down right. And you know this because you
Speaker 5: know what it is to do a weekday show, like
Speaker 5: you look for the sound from Sundays and his rallies
Speaker 5: come on Sundays, and like that hasn't been lost on
Speaker 5: me either, So like he understands his media ecosystems as well.
Speaker 5: But I but also give him, Let's give him the
Speaker 5: credit of a message with deeper resonance of the Epstein
Speaker 5: class and a corrupt system that doesn't work except for
Speaker 5: those at the top.
Speaker 4: I mean, other candidates have used that messaging.
Speaker 5: I covered the Warring campaign that was like almost verbatim
Speaker 5: the way that she would talk about it, not the
Speaker 5: Epstein class, but a system that works for the wealthy
Speaker 5: and well connected.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: So the fact that that's the underpinning of his message
Speaker 5: and is being echoed other places, I think says a
Speaker 5: lot about the way he's been able to tap into
Speaker 5: the pulse of Georgia voters. But I think about assof
Speaker 5: also the way I think about Warnock, which is like
Speaker 5: a little bit of three D elective chess, because I
Speaker 5: think it becomes difficult if Keisha lance Bottom doesn't win
Speaker 5: that governor's race for Democrats to say like, yeah, like
Speaker 5: let's take one of these kind of unicorn Democrats who
Speaker 5: won in Georgia and like take him out.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I just I think that there's a little bit of
Speaker 5: elective chess beyond it too, that I think about a lot.
Speaker 1: That's a good point.
Speaker 2: And before you go, I want to show your book
Speaker 2: because you did such an amazing job with this book Electable.
Speaker 1: I have it, folks. If you don't have.
Speaker 2: It, it's a you know it's still highly relevant. Why
Speaker 2: America hasn't put it white House? I know it's true.
Speaker 2: And I want to say, finally before you go, that
Speaker 2: one of the things I don't like to hear this
Speaker 2: is me personally on my soapbox. I don't like to
Speaker 2: hear that Pee Buddha Jete can't become president because he's gay.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I just personally think that that's wrong because I covered
Speaker 2: Barack Obama and people are like, there's no way he's.
Speaker 1: Gonna be president, and became president and he won handily.
Speaker 2: And I also think that it's wrong to say a
Speaker 2: woman can't become president and that we have to that
Speaker 2: Democrats have to run a white man next time around.
Speaker 2: I don't think that that's the case. I think a
Speaker 2: woman could win next time around and be the antidote
Speaker 2: to Trump. Is that am I smoking something that I
Speaker 2: should probably stop smoking ally?
Speaker 1: Or what are your thoughts since you wrote I'll.
Speaker 4: Smoke it with you?
Speaker 5: Like I always want to live in a world where
Speaker 5: women can win and voters can evaluate them. And I
Speaker 5: think the premise of the book, which remains true, is
Speaker 5: like candidates are electable if you vote for them, and
Speaker 5: just because you haven't seen it before doesn't mean that
Speaker 5: it can't happen, but it does mean that if you
Speaker 5: are those candidates, you're strategizing around something we call the
Speaker 5: amata genation barrier, which is like, if you're a white
Speaker 5: man running for something, people can picture you doing it
Speaker 5: because white men have done everything. But if you are
Speaker 5: a woman trying to be president or an openly gay
Speaker 5: man trying to be president, to carry your example, people
Speaker 5: just haven't seen that, and so they're forced to like
Speaker 5: grapple with the imagination of it, while also saying, well,
Speaker 5: do I think this person would be good at that
Speaker 5: job and they're electable if you vote for them. That
Speaker 5: is I think something Democrats are going to have to
Speaker 5: grapple with among themselves in twenty twenty eight, because yeah,
Speaker 5: it's a lot of white men who want that job
Speaker 5: right now.
Speaker 1: There, It's very true.
Speaker 2: But I still think that the candidate that emerges ultimately
Speaker 2: for the Democrats in twenty twenty it may not be
Speaker 2: somebody we're talking about right now, and you just we
Speaker 2: don't know what we don't know, and these things can
Speaker 2: change very quickly. But Ali, I made a promise because
Speaker 2: you go to bed soon because you have to get up,
Speaker 2: as you say, way too early, and I don't want
Speaker 2: to violate that and get in a lot of trouble
Speaker 2: next time I see it.
Speaker 5: So there will be no trouble. And I will always
Speaker 5: stay awake late for you in four thirty.
Speaker 4: Is very late.
Speaker 1: I know it is all right.
Speaker 2: Have a good night if that means five o'clock, six o'clock,
Speaker 2: that means have a good night.
Speaker 1: But Ali, great to see you.
Speaker 2: Watch MS now every morning when Ali comes on, she's
Speaker 2: terrific and great to see again. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1: Thanks to you, all right, take care? All right?
Speaker 2: That was Ali Vetad, my old campaign buddy. We're out
Speaker 2: on the campaign trail together back in twenty sixteen, and
Speaker 2: look at her now, she's doing an amazing job. I
Speaker 2: do want to say very quickly before I go, I
Speaker 2: want to say, because I've busted there, but a couple
Speaker 2: of times the folks over at ABC, thank you, ABC,
Speaker 2: thank you for suing the FCC.
Speaker 1: And their media henchman Brunn in car.
Speaker 2: I'm showing another CNN person, my old colleague, Brian Stelzer today,
Speaker 2: so where it's a CNN day on my show. ABC
Speaker 2: has filed a First Amendment lawsuit against the SEC and
Speaker 2: DC District Court. The suit says the Trump administration is
Speaker 2: wage day retaliatory campaign against ABC for a single reason
Speaker 2: it disapproves of what ABC broadcasts. We should note our
Speaker 2: friend Rosie O'Donnell is hosting Jimmy Kimmell this week, so
Speaker 2: they must be really right now over at the SEC
Speaker 2: and the White House. But this is really important, and
Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal in the New York Times, they've
Speaker 2: all reported on this today and basically what the SEC
Speaker 2: is trying to do is strip the license broadcast licenses
Speaker 2: away from ABC. They own and operate eight local stations
Speaker 2: that carry its programming across the country, including a major
Speaker 2: markets like New yorick A, LA, and Chicago. And folks
Speaker 2: need to understand that if the SEC were to somehow
Speaker 2: strip ABC of these licenses, it would obviously be in
Speaker 2: direct retaliation of what ABC puts on its programming. You know,
Speaker 2: Trump doesn't like the view, Trump doesn't like Jimmy Kimmel.
Speaker 2: Trump sometimes doesn't like ABC News. He goes after Rachel Scott,
Speaker 2: another female reporter over at the White House. And the
Speaker 2: long and the short of this is that, you know, ABC,
Speaker 2: very long time ago, well not so long ago, but
Speaker 2: right before Trump came back into the White House, right
Speaker 2: around the time he came back to the Wise, paid
Speaker 2: that what was essentially a Brian They paid to settle
Speaker 2: a bullshit lawsuit that trumpet filed against ABC and George Stephanopolis.
Speaker 1: We don't have to go back over all.
Speaker 2: Of that again, but ABC did that at that time
Speaker 2: to essentially bend the knee to sort of pay an
Speaker 2: extortion toll on the intimidation racket highway. And you know,
Speaker 2: thank goodness, ABC is now showing some backbone. Thank goodness,
Speaker 2: ABC is now showing some real courage as it goes
Speaker 2: up against the Trump administration. And this is exactly the
Speaker 2: right thing to do. I've been clamoring for this for
Speaker 2: the last eighteen months that what the network should be doing,
Speaker 2: what the White House press scorps should be doing, with
Speaker 2: the outlets who hire the White House reporters should be doing,
Speaker 2: is standing up against Donald Trump. It is time for
Speaker 2: the attax on the press, at tax on individual reporters.
Speaker 2: The disgusting comments like quiet Piggy going after Jimmy Kimmel
Speaker 2: because Donald Trump doesn't like jokes that Jimmy Kimmel. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's too bad that Stephen Colbert was chased off of
Speaker 2: the Late Show over at CBS.
Speaker 1: I mean, this kind of weaponization of government.
Speaker 2: Let's just call it what it is, and call it
Speaker 2: what the Trump people screaming about all the time. This
Speaker 2: weaponization of government to intimidate and silence free speech in
Speaker 2: this country has to be stopped. And he's not going
Speaker 2: to stop it on his own and the White House,
Speaker 2: the people over the White House who act like they're
Speaker 2: in a cult, they're not going to stop it on
Speaker 2: their own. I mean, look at what they're doing. They're
Speaker 2: putting out tweets, going after reporters kids and so. And
Speaker 2: this is what I've been saying for the last eighteen
Speaker 2: months is that the only thing that works is collective action.
Speaker 1: The only thing that works is standing up to the bully.
Speaker 1: And what do bullies do.
Speaker 2: Bullies try to kick.
Speaker 1: You when you're down.
Speaker 2: Bullies try to intimidate you into silence. They try to
Speaker 2: beat you up at the schoolyard for you lunch money
Speaker 2: and make it so you don't have to put up
Speaker 2: a fight the.
Speaker 1: Next number, and you just hand over your lunch money.
Speaker 2: And to go after a White House reporter like Kristen
Speaker 2: Holmes in this fashion and say someday your children will
Speaker 2: come across your disgusting, an inhumane question. The only disgusting
Speaker 2: and inhumane people are the people who run this Rapid
Speaker 2: Response forty seven account. And I just want to say,
Speaker 2: shame on all of you, Shame on the people who
Speaker 2: run that account, Shame on the people who tolerate this bullshit.
Speaker 2: Susie Wilds, the White House chief of Staff.
Speaker 1: You're okay, You're okay with the people over.
Speaker 2: At Rapid Response forty seven going after reporters kids. Is
Speaker 2: that what we've come to in this country is that
Speaker 2: are these the new lows that we're going to set
Speaker 2: in this country where we're going after people's children for
Speaker 2: simply asking a question and being loud and boisterous, which
Speaker 2: she wasn't even doing in the White House. And somehow
Speaker 2: that's tolerable that the people who run that account should
Speaker 2: be shitcanned right now. They should be fired right now.
Speaker 2: They should be given their walk, their their White House passes,
Speaker 2: their security clearances should be stripped away right now and
Speaker 2: sent on their way.
Speaker 1: That is what we used to do in Washington, d C.
Speaker 2: When you went after somebody's kids, when you went after
Speaker 2: somebody's spouse, when you went after somebody's loved ones. And
Speaker 2: Donald Trump has blown all of that out of the water.
Speaker 2: And he is the one who goes after Remember, he
Speaker 2: went after Ted Cruz's wife, he went after Ted Cruz's father.
Speaker 2: He goes after people's wives, he goes after people's kids,
Speaker 2: he goes after people's parents, he goes after their spouses,
Speaker 2: and it goes, it never ends with Donald Trump. He
Speaker 2: has brought he has tried to bring all of us
Speaker 2: down to his disgusting, inhumane, and appalling level. And the
Speaker 2: people who work off at the White House, the people
Speaker 2: who work on these social media accounts, I guess they've learned.
Speaker 1: From the master.
Speaker 2: They've learned from the sith Lord of put downs and insults.
Speaker 2: And because some of them are probably not old enough
Speaker 2: to have mastered personal hygiene in their lives, they're still
Speaker 2: at that point in their lives they think it's okay
Speaker 2: as sort of the White House arm fort contingent to
Speaker 2: level these kinds of personal attacks. And you need to
Speaker 2: understand it is it's not just beneath the dignity. It's
Speaker 2: not just debasing the White House and the Office of
Speaker 2: the Presidency, which of course it is. It is debasing
Speaker 2: what we think of as common humanity in this country.
Speaker 1: It is setting a new low.
Speaker 2: It is scraping the bottom of the barrel when it
Speaker 2: comes to treating each other like human beings in this country.
Speaker 2: And I, for one, and I know a lot of
Speaker 2: you are out there are with me. I for one,
Speaker 2: am not going to sanewash this. I for one am
Speaker 2: not going to sanitize this, and neither should you. We
Speaker 2: should all be disgusted and appalled. And I don't know
Speaker 2: if the White House runs a switchboard anymore. Maybe that's
Speaker 2: something from a by God era too. But I invite
Speaker 2: as many of the people who are watching this program
Speaker 2: on all the platforms who are watching it to crash
Speaker 2: the White House switchboard. Call the White House I think
Speaker 2: they still have a switchboard. Crash the switchboard and demand
Speaker 2: that the little shits over at rapid response forty seven
Speaker 2: have their little asses fired, and boot it out of
Speaker 2: the White House because they have no business working for
Speaker 2: the American people and taking our taxpayer dollars and putting
Speaker 2: them in their goddamn bank accounts. Because that is no
Speaker 2: way to treat a person. That is no way to
Speaker 2: treat a lady. That is no way to treat little
Speaker 2: kids in this country or any country or ever. Shame
Speaker 2: on you, Donald Trump, not that you have any shame,
Speaker 2: Shame on you, Susie Wiles, the White House chief of staff,
Speaker 2: who tolerates this nonsense on a daily basis. They have
Speaker 2: a communications director there, Stephen Schump, who says horrible, awful
Speaker 2: things all the time about people who work at the
Speaker 2: White House as journalists. He went off on Carol Lenok
Speaker 2: the other day for accurately reporting on the Air Force
Speaker 2: one fiasco. He does this all the time. They have
Speaker 2: staffer after staffer after staffer who they think they are.
Speaker 2: They're all in a frat house and they think it's
Speaker 2: okay to treat other human beings in this fashion. And
Speaker 2: it is just not that way. It is just not
Speaker 2: that way. And yes, this is their way of sucking
Speaker 2: up to the dear leader, and this is their way
Speaker 2: of getting noticed. And the only way you can get
Speaker 2: noticed in the White House of Donald Trump is if
Speaker 2: you were a cruel and nasty and mean spirited.
Speaker 1: But it is.
Speaker 2: Beyond the pale that these people still work at the
Speaker 2: White House after firing off that tweet, after firing off
Speaker 2: that kind of disgusting an appalling insult at a mother
Speaker 2: who happens to be a reporter who.
Speaker 1: Works at the White House. Shame on all of you.
Speaker 1: I want to thank Jonathan, the last of the Bullwork,
Speaker 1: for joining me today.
Speaker 2: Thanks to Ali Vitally as well. Thanks to all of
Speaker 2: you for watching. Still reporting from Washington. I'm Jim mccosta.
Speaker 2: I'll see you next time.