Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen?
Speaker 1: What help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects. Tonight on the
Speaker 1: Occult Rejects, we welcome viv Scarlet star and occult practitioner,
Speaker 1: esoteric voice and creator whose work touches shadow work, ritual symbolism,
Speaker 1: and the deeper currents of spiritual transformation. We're getting into
Speaker 1: her path, her philosophy, the meaning behind you, what that
Speaker 1: will and whether Thelema is essential to her work or
Speaker 1: simply one thread and a much larger tapestry. This one
Speaker 1: goes into magic, identity, discipline, and what it really means
Speaker 1: to walk in occult path. But before I introduce her,
Speaker 1: I would also like to make a few announcements. On Saturday,
Speaker 1: April twenty fifth, the Southeastern Masonic Symposium is happening at
Speaker 1: Asheville Masonic Temple at eighty Broadway Street in Asheville, North Carolina.
Speaker 1: I will be there in person, so come on down
Speaker 1: and meet me and the rest of the crew and
Speaker 1: the people that will be speaking there. We will have
Speaker 1: John Michael Greer, he will be there. We got Colin
Speaker 1: konk Wright from American ESO Terek and he's been on
Speaker 1: the show numerous times. We got the man himself, Ike Baker.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you all know who he is already,
Speaker 1: and we got Tom Carter and so yeah, if you're
Speaker 1: available and you can make it, I will be there.
Speaker 1: Come on down. It will be a blest. And I
Speaker 1: also want to remind people about the website if you're
Speaker 1: into reading, we have tons of information by multiple contributors
Speaker 1: and we got t shirts up on the site if
Speaker 1: you're interested. And fun fact, the art is all based
Speaker 1: on the eyeball. All right, that's enough out of me,
Speaker 1: and I will introduce Viv Viv what is going on?
Speaker 1: How will you please let everybody know anything that you'd
Speaker 1: like to promote? Plug let everybody know what's up.
Speaker 2: Hi, thank you so much for having me on here.
Speaker 2: I'm Viv. I'm a magical practitioner. I've just been getting
Speaker 2: back into I guess what you'd call making content or whatever.
Speaker 2: So if you guys want to follow me on Instagram, TikTok, threads,
Speaker 2: it's Viv dot Scarlet Star And starting in the summer,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be making YouTube videos again Scarlet Star
Speaker 2: Synctum and I'm also thinking about making a substack so
Speaker 2: stay tuned for that. I love to write some of
Speaker 2: my favorite and I think it's something I'm good at,
Speaker 2: so I just want to kind of ease into that
Speaker 2: space as well.
Speaker 1: That's great. Hopefully in a couple of years we'll have
Speaker 1: you back on for releasing a book or something.
Speaker 2: Hopefully, Man, you.
Speaker 1: Have something coming out on Wiser and Llewellen.
Speaker 2: That's a dream of mine for sure.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Nice. Nice. So you did mention now your
Speaker 1: YouTube You used to do this prior in the past.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, yes, I did. Yeah, I did YouTube for
Speaker 2: a few years. I stopped for a little bit because
Speaker 2: life just got really crazy. And I'll kind of get
Speaker 2: into that a little bit as I talk about like
Speaker 2: my magical path and stuff like that, because it all
Speaker 2: correlates a little bit. But I do really want to
Speaker 2: get back into it. I miss it a lot.
Speaker 1: Nice. Nice, all right. So I guess, for like the
Speaker 1: listeners for people just meeting you for the first time,
Speaker 1: who is viv and what led you into I guess
Speaker 1: this path or even led you into the occulta magic
Speaker 1: to begin with.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so there's a lot with that. So I
Speaker 2: would call myself a witch, a pagan magical practitioner and Athelamite.
Speaker 2: My magical work really centers a lot around nature haikat
Speaker 2: as well as a big influence of the Hekatail by
Speaker 2: Jack Brayle, big influence in my practice, and more recently, i've,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of delved into the path of Thelema
Speaker 2: as well and become really interested in that and more
Speaker 2: ceremonial magic stuff. But my experience comes from witchcraft and paganism,
Speaker 2: and I kind of had a stint with demonolotry as
Speaker 2: well for a couple of years as well, and it
Speaker 2: was a part of my practice that I needed at
Speaker 2: the time, but it didn't really stick with me, and
Speaker 2: I ended up kind of delving into filima and how
Speaker 2: I got into this stuff. I was super young. I
Speaker 2: was twelve or thirteen, and I grew up a Christian
Speaker 2: and Muslim. It was kind of a different upbringing from
Speaker 2: most people. My mom was Muslim and I lived with her,
Speaker 2: and at a certain point when I was young, for
Speaker 2: a few years we lived in a village in England
Speaker 2: that didn't have any mosques or anything like that, or
Speaker 2: any Muslims at all, So we ended up going to
Speaker 2: church and I was sort of exposed to that, and
Speaker 2: my dad was an atheist and would kind of have
Speaker 2: these like debates when I was a kid, but he
Speaker 2: always kind of encouraged me to think critically and to question.
Speaker 2: And I started to question organized religion when I was
Speaker 2: about twelve. And then I ended up having a recurring
Speaker 2: dream and I saw in my dream, I was in
Speaker 2: a forest and there was this meadow, and I saw
Speaker 2: this man and just something about him felt divine to me,
Speaker 2: but I couldn't quite place my finger on what it was.
Speaker 2: And the last couple of times that I had the dream,
Speaker 2: he turned into a stag and he just went off
Speaker 2: into the forest. And I had no idea what to
Speaker 2: make of this. The only you know, religious texts that
Speaker 2: I was exposed through were the Bible in the Koran,
Speaker 2: so I thought, this, this is saint? Is this like
Speaker 2: what is going on a prophet? And I ended up
Speaker 2: doing some research and learned about Carnunos Horned God and
Speaker 2: he is still, you know, a god that I worship
Speaker 2: that i'd consider my patron. And I actually got my
Speaker 2: first tattoo in honor of Carnunos. It's a pair of
Speaker 2: antlers of vines and verbena flowers and that was really
Speaker 2: what got me into it, and then I kind of
Speaker 2: started off with Wika and then I kind of segued
Speaker 2: into just calling myself a witch and a pagan and
Speaker 2: that was how it all began.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. What was there, like a specific moment or
Speaker 1: an experience or maybe an encounter. Maybe it was what
Speaker 1: you were just saying now that made occultism real for
Speaker 1: you instead of just like interesting, Like was there a
Speaker 1: moment and you're like, oh, this is going to be
Speaker 1: like my thing?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, I feel like there's so many of those
Speaker 2: for me, like throughout my path. I think I think
Speaker 2: that recurring dream was sort of just the beginning, but
Speaker 2: I still didn't really know what was going on, and
Speaker 2: I was super young, you know, I was quite sure,
Speaker 2: but I experience it, Yeah, I was. I was just
Speaker 2: a little baby Viv. But I'd had so many experiences
Speaker 2: since then. Just kind of experiencing divinity, I guess has
Speaker 2: been a big thing for me in my work with Hikate,
Speaker 2: just having synchronicities that I couldn't explain otherwise, and things
Speaker 2: that I that other people might call coincidence if they
Speaker 2: weren't in my shoes and just kind of these recurring things.
Speaker 2: And I also, I guess my work with Hikate and
Speaker 2: cardinos and just spirits as well and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Just feeling like I was getting these sort of messages
Speaker 2: that weren't coming from my brain. That was a big
Speaker 2: thing for me, you know. And it's like it's hard
Speaker 2: to explain to other people because then they'll tell you, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you know, you're just you're probably yeah, you're just creating,
Speaker 2: or you're actually having these thoughts, but you're telling yourself
Speaker 2: that you're not. But when you know, you know, you know,
Speaker 2: when you have those experiences, you know. And so I
Speaker 2: think just all of these experiences combined and then actually
Speaker 2: having spells and rituals work and create tangible changes in
Speaker 2: my life that I can trace directly to what I did,
Speaker 2: that was a huge thing for me as well.
Speaker 1: I know you said that you seem to have kind
Speaker 1: of I guess got interested more in ceremonial in thelema,
Speaker 1: which I would think thilema, I mean, it's kind of ceremonial.
Speaker 1: If you're going by stuff Crawley suggests you to do,
Speaker 1: it would be very ceremonial. When you first got into
Speaker 1: this stuff, I guess like what kind of what were
Speaker 1: your practices like then, you know, from from the beginner
Speaker 1: up until you got into the LIMA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got through a lot of different phases as
Speaker 2: a practitioner. Like I kind of mentioned earlier, I started
Speaker 2: off with Wicca, and not obviously, you know, I wasn't
Speaker 2: doing like Gardenerian Wicca at twelve years old, but just
Speaker 2: some of the more basic stuff that people start with
Speaker 2: that would be a little crazy. And then witchcraft and
Speaker 2: paganism i'd say, like kind of eclectic witchcraft for for
Speaker 2: a while and just learning about that and in the
Speaker 2: basics of energy work and spell work and you know,
Speaker 2: bringing about change into your life through you know, the
Speaker 2: in the microcosm and into the macrocosm. And then I
Speaker 2: kind of had a stint with demonolotry for a couple
Speaker 2: of years, and that was kind of a thing I
Speaker 2: got interested in. But thinking back now, I think what
Speaker 2: really drew me to demonolotry was the almost like ceremonial
Speaker 2: ish aspect of the rituals. And I was kind of
Speaker 2: into the sort of like what you call left hand
Speaker 2: path current at the time, and so that kind of
Speaker 2: you know, that really interested me. And I stuck with
Speaker 2: that for a couple of years. But I think what
Speaker 2: drew me to Phelima was, I don't know, it was
Speaker 2: something that just kind of happened. I knew about Filima.
Speaker 2: I had friends online and you know, like mutuals and
Speaker 2: stuff like that, who Arethelamites. I was exposed to some
Speaker 2: of the ideas, but I didn't really dive into it
Speaker 2: until I became more interested a couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: and then I didn't really deeply dive until more recently,
Speaker 2: like a few months ago. But something about the imagery
Speaker 2: really really really just like I don't know, it really
Speaker 2: stuck with me and it drew me in. And I
Speaker 2: can trace that back to my childhood as well, with like,
Speaker 2: for example, the Egyptian stuff. My dad would take me
Speaker 2: to a museum in England and there was a section
Speaker 2: that was like just ancient Egypt and it was super immersive.
Speaker 2: There's all this ancient Egyptian stuff and like you could
Speaker 2: like touch stuff, you could look at all this stuff,
Speaker 2: and I would literally spend hours in that little section.
Speaker 2: And then I was also always really interested in like
Speaker 2: Masonic imagery and stuff like that, and yeah, that kind
Speaker 2: of thing, that kind of segued into ceremonial magic and
Speaker 2: felima and that kind of symbolism, and just something about
Speaker 2: the energy and the current drew me in.
Speaker 1: When you were first thinking about I guess like thelema
Speaker 1: getting into it. The reason I'm asking is for some reason,
Speaker 1: a comment that somebody had said to me went through
Speaker 1: my head while you were talking. I think it was
Speaker 1: a Serena Serena Saint Sinclair. I was on her show,
Speaker 1: and she had asked me if I consider myself a Theelamite,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, I would, and but I forgot.
Speaker 1: I was like, I said, I'm almost like like it's
Speaker 1: almost like embarrassing sometimes to say that. And she had
Speaker 1: said that. I think Mavis had kind of like said
Speaker 1: the same thing, that it's just like the way people
Speaker 1: look at it, you're almost like embarrassed to say that
Speaker 1: you are because of how fucked up people I guess
Speaker 1: just view it. And so like when you I remember,
Speaker 1: even for me before I even't went to like an
Speaker 1: Oto lodge, you know, when I was thinking about going,
Speaker 1: I was just like, if I make this my thing,
Speaker 1: how do I tell people if they have to ask,
Speaker 1: Because you almost feel kind of like did you feel
Speaker 1: like that when your friends getting into Selma You're like, wait,
Speaker 1: if I get into this, I don't tell any of
Speaker 1: my friends I do this. I think I'm crazy. I've
Speaker 1: fucked up.
Speaker 2: No. Absolutely, I get that so much, and like it's
Speaker 2: it's kind of like I have a little bit of
Speaker 2: experience with that with like telling certain people like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm a witch and then they're like, but with Felima
Speaker 2: even more so because it's it's so much more niche
Speaker 2: and like people don't know what it is. Uh, And
Speaker 2: I still kind of struggle with that, especially people who
Speaker 2: aren't into like the magical stuff and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: and they ask me what I believe in, and I'll
Speaker 2: be completely honest. Sometimes I just say I'm spiritual and
Speaker 2: I leave it at that. Especially living in Texas, it's
Speaker 2: like some people you don't want to, you know, open
Speaker 2: that candle. Worms. Yeah, tough. It's rough because it's like
Speaker 2: people either don't know what it is or they think
Speaker 2: you're great. And there's even people in the magical community
Speaker 2: to who kind of demonize Selima. You know, if you
Speaker 2: say Salima or Crowley, they kind of they don't like that.
Speaker 2: So I really think for me, It depends on, like
Speaker 2: the audience i'm speaking to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know exactly what you mean totally. Oh did
Speaker 1: you ever make it to that library?
Speaker 2: Not yet? Crazy week last week, but things are kind
Speaker 2: of slowing down for me this week, so I'm thinking
Speaker 2: maybe on Thursday I'll head up there.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, you check out those notes, you're going
Speaker 1: to be you're going to see a total different side.
Speaker 1: I think it Crawley. You're gonna be like, Wow, this
Speaker 1: guy really isn't fucking around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to go and check that out.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be like, Yo, his book is just ciphered
Speaker 1: you guys doing the math and everything on the side. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty wild different. You mentioned and I've never actually
Speaker 1: heard of this. What did you say? Demonolotry is something
Speaker 1: to that effect. Can you explain that a little bit
Speaker 1: for the listeners and myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So demonolotry, it's it's a practice, and it kind
Speaker 2: of got a little more popular a couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: but it's still kind of niche, and it's basically, rather
Speaker 2: than working with demons in the solemonic magic framework, it's
Speaker 2: more so I don't like to use the term worshiping
Speaker 2: when it comes to that, because a lot of like
Speaker 2: left hand path people don't like that term and they
Speaker 2: get a little like like, oh, I don't worship them.
Speaker 2: But I also don't like the term working with even
Speaker 2: though sometimes because that's the only way people you know,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like online, that's the way
Speaker 2: people talk about it.
Speaker 1: But I'm utilizing demons right now.
Speaker 2: I'm utilizing demons. I guess. I guess it's similar to
Speaker 2: like how you would appro which magical work with gods,
Speaker 2: but with demons, and so some people some people love it,
Speaker 2: some people hate it. I think I had pretty good
Speaker 2: results with it, and there's there's books about it. But
Speaker 2: my kind of issue with that is was that I
Speaker 2: did feel like some of the books I read kind
Speaker 2: of claim the super ancient like historical lineage, when I
Speaker 2: didn't really feel like that was the case personally. But
Speaker 2: it is interesting and I think it's sort of a
Speaker 2: different way of working with demons, and I had I
Speaker 2: had good experiences with it, and yeah, that's kind of
Speaker 2: that's kind of all it is.
Speaker 1: If you don't you don't have to get specific if
Speaker 1: you don't want to. I'm just a little bit more interested,
Speaker 1: like how, like, you know, how how is this done?
Speaker 1: Or is there certain maybe demons you can even give
Speaker 1: names of. I'm just like really interested like this whole
Speaker 1: and like, I guess maybe what were you working towards too?
Speaker 1: If you don't want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely So. A couple of the ones that I
Speaker 2: personally would like work with, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 2: was Bill and Stolus was another one. So Stolenus is
Speaker 2: like all about knowledge and kind of all these kinds
Speaker 2: of things. And rather than like doing solomonic magic, I
Speaker 2: would like cast a circle and there's a certain way
Speaker 2: that you do it where you call upon demons that
Speaker 2: are associated with the different direction, and I would like
Speaker 2: have incenses going for them. I would have candles, I
Speaker 2: would have specific herbs and stuff like that, and I
Speaker 2: would like write my petition or whatever it was, and
Speaker 2: I'd also do like a lot of deep meditation, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of connect with that spirit and that energy, and
Speaker 2: you know, at the end, I burned that petition, probably
Speaker 2: leave them an offering of course, and just close that out.
Speaker 2: So pretty basic, but it was I felt like it
Speaker 2: was effective, and I what kind of I felt like
Speaker 2: they were good for my personal development. So that was
Speaker 2: one thing that I did work with them for my
Speaker 2: personal development, and also stuff like bringing in abundance, bringing
Speaker 2: in prosperity. With Stoless, it was more like knowledge and
Speaker 2: kind of facilitating that and like bringing in new opportunities
Speaker 2: for that into my life and success and things like that.
Speaker 1: I like how you actually like cool the quarters and
Speaker 1: you had like the whole setup. I mean it's that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was getting ceremonial or ritual already, you.
Speaker 2: Know exactly, and I think that's part of what really
Speaker 2: drew me to it. So then when I started reading
Speaker 2: more about ceremonial magic and getting more into that, I
Speaker 2: was like, this is also kind of what I've been
Speaker 2: looking for. And at that point I was kind of
Speaker 2: moving away from the infernal energies and those kinds of current,
Speaker 2: not because I thought they were suddenly bad or anything
Speaker 2: like that, but I just had different kind of energies
Speaker 2: coming into my life and different things I was drawn to,
Speaker 2: and and kind of Thelema factored into that. And funny enough,
Speaker 2: when I did get into Selima, like after that my
Speaker 2: entire life turned upside down and it was kind of
Speaker 2: a rough period, But after that my life just got
Speaker 2: so much better.
Speaker 1: I got into my life turned upside down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I cropped that all, you know.
Speaker 1: No, I get it though. I get it though. Oh
Speaker 1: I uh. When you were first getting into this stuff,
Speaker 1: was there any like certain uh, I guess authors or
Speaker 1: specific people that maybe well, you know, books, teachers or
Speaker 1: traditions that kind of you know, hit you hard, or
Speaker 1: that you know kind of rang with you. You know that
Speaker 1: that you gravitated towards you, like they got something I
Speaker 1: want to hear or you're into.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question. Have I have such a
Speaker 2: big collection. I'm looking at it right now. One that
Speaker 2: I mentioned before we started the show was The Heck
Speaker 2: of Town by Jack Rayle. This is like my holy Grail.
Speaker 2: I love it. It's my favorite book in the world.
Speaker 2: I bought this from my friend and it's really influenced
Speaker 2: me as a practitioner in my work with Kikat and
Speaker 2: just in the past couple of years since I bought it.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's a grimoire that you work through
Speaker 2: and it's very very effective, very intense energies, you know,
Speaker 2: with Hikat. But this is one of my favorite ones
Speaker 2: going into Felima. I mean, other than like Curly obviously
Speaker 2: David Shoemaker. I loved his work. Yeah, I read Living Salima.
Speaker 2: I bought Way of the Will. Actually I bought it
Speaker 2: at Atlantis Bookshop in London, and I was so excited
Speaker 2: to go there because it's such a historical place, you know,
Speaker 2: like I'm in the same place as Crowley and Gardener
Speaker 2: and you know, it's amazing. And then Matt Orrin's Psychic
Speaker 2: Witch and Mastering Magic. I think those are great books.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed those. Jason Miller his books, Wow, his.
Speaker 1: Name in a minute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love who else? Who else? Freighter Ud had
Speaker 2: a couple. Really enjoyed those as well. I mean there's
Speaker 2: just so many. There's so many. I really have to
Speaker 2: like go through my whole collection. Oh, Jason Mankey, I
Speaker 2: enjoy his books more like on the witchcraft side of things,
Speaker 2: and oh man, I have so many.
Speaker 1: What was the uh I guess what was the first? Uh,
Speaker 1: first Croly book you ever picked up?
Speaker 2: First Crowley book was, oh god, the Book of the Boss.
Speaker 2: I had no idea what's going on? I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: like it was. I thought the prose was beautiful and
Speaker 2: like I did feel you know, I liked reading it.
Speaker 2: But I was. I was a little confused. And then
Speaker 2: after that magic and theory and practice and that was
Speaker 2: a little more you know, practical.
Speaker 1: I guess you could say, yeah, I totally you totally
Speaker 1: get it. Yeah. I think the Book of the Low
Speaker 1: was my first thing. Everybody in too, and I was like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck did I just read?
Speaker 2: What the fuck is going on?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, like, I mean, it is what it is.
Speaker 1: I guess, like when you're reading New Eat and by
Speaker 1: the time you get to the end and you're getting like,
Speaker 1: you know, Jesus's eyes are getting caloughed out, or like
Speaker 1: what the fuck happened? You know? And I even think
Speaker 1: that is all just symbolic anyway. I don't think it's literal, but.
Speaker 2: A lot of curs.
Speaker 3: Writing oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So, uh, when you
Speaker 3: describe when you describe yourself as a Thelamite or or
Speaker 3: is Thelema, I mean you kind of answered already it
Speaker 3: was just the Lema one influence among several I think
Speaker 3: you kind of answered this already.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like I'm I'm the kind of person
Speaker 2: who likes to draw from multiple things, multiple sources, and
Speaker 2: my path is definitely very like multifaceted in that way,
Speaker 2: So I think Thelma is a thread in that, but
Speaker 2: I think it's a major thread running through it now
Speaker 2: or it's becoming that. So it's definitely my biggest focus
Speaker 2: right now compared to everything else. So Felima's what I'm
Speaker 2: reading about, Fellina's what I'm studying. You know, the kind
Speaker 2: of rituals I'm learning and doing are kind of part
Speaker 2: of that that current. So it's a thread, but it's
Speaker 2: out a major influence and I think that will only
Speaker 2: grow over time.
Speaker 1: Do you do you happen to do rush?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah, I missed a couple in there, but I
Speaker 2: love it. You know, an interesting thing I've noticed too
Speaker 2: is that I've I crave being in the sun, like
Speaker 2: ever since I started doing it every day, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I need. I just feel a lot more connected to
Speaker 2: that solar energy than I used to because you know,
Speaker 2: I was very lunar. I mean it was very lunar
Speaker 2: very you know, night moon, and it's kind of changed
Speaker 2: the way I feel a little bit.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting. Do you actually go outside to do it?
Speaker 2: Yes? Well, I try to not all of them because
Speaker 2: like sometimes I'm at work or but whenever I can
Speaker 2: I do. That's my favorite way to do it, like
Speaker 2: in the morning.
Speaker 1: No, I think that's actually very key to it, not
Speaker 1: till I get off on like a weird science tangent.
Speaker 1: But like you know, I've noticed in Will somebody else
Speaker 1: actually pointed it out to me, so I can't say
Speaker 1: I figured it out. Lisa who used to be on
Speaker 1: the show. Uh, she was like, you know, into science,
Speaker 1: and she was getting a pH d. She was into
Speaker 1: all that stuff. And she had said that if you
Speaker 1: were to go look at the sun at all those
Speaker 1: times that he has you do these, it would actually
Speaker 1: prime your pineal gland to be at like optimal working.
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering, like, if you do do that without
Speaker 1: even just making I mean this sounds grate for you anyway,
Speaker 1: but I'm just wondering, like, does is that actually creating
Speaker 1: a difference in feeling too and making you feel better
Speaker 1: and all that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really fascinating actually how to do outside as
Speaker 2: much as possible and see, because that's really interesting to
Speaker 2: think about.
Speaker 1: I actually do think, believe it or not, I do
Speaker 1: think that guy might have been into science and just
Speaker 1: didn't put it in plain times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. And like even his approach and
Speaker 2: then his writings. There's a lot of like healthy skepticism
Speaker 2: and scientific method with recording your rituals and recording your
Speaker 2: meditation stuff like that. So I think you're on something there.
Speaker 1: Did you know did you do the star Ruby or
Speaker 1: you know of the Star Ruby?
Speaker 2: I would assume, right, well, the Star Ruby, I don't
Speaker 2: do it currently, but that's something that is like on
Speaker 2: my list.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's I mean, that's a whole other language.
Speaker 4: You got to learn to say. Yeah, yeah, it took
Speaker 4: me to memorize it. The reason why I brought that
Speaker 4: up is that I even and then I'll get off
Speaker 4: the whole science thing. But there's a part when you're
Speaker 4: acting like you're I guess isis holding horus and breastfeeding
Speaker 4: the child and again like it just mean sound crazy,
Speaker 4: but it's true when you go to breastfeed the child,
Speaker 4: the mother goes to breastfeed the child. I think it
Speaker 4: might be in the colossrum that like thin liquid at
Speaker 4: the beginning of the milk that actually makes a connection
Speaker 4: between the mother and the child's pinilga and it tells
Speaker 4: the child like where it is, where it is on
Speaker 4: the like the you know, what season it is, what
Speaker 4: time it is, where it's located on the earth.
Speaker 1: All this weird stuff. So there's actually something transferred. And
Speaker 1: I was just like, did he know that? Like, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, I don't know, but may have. I'm
Speaker 1: given him too much credit, but I've just thought it
Speaker 1: to really wonder with some of this stuff.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's that's a rabbit hole I'm gonna have to
Speaker 2: go down.
Speaker 1: Yea, it is. It definitely is. I guess I was
Speaker 1: asking to you a little bit about rush. The reason
Speaker 1: I even brought that up at first, What does your
Speaker 1: what does your practice look like today? Daily? So I'm
Speaker 1: assuming rush is part of it daily practice.
Speaker 2: That's been a big thing for me to really be
Speaker 2: kind of disciplined with. So the morning, I do rash,
Speaker 2: I do the LB RP, and I do meditation. I
Speaker 2: do like a mindfulness meditation, but I kind of switch
Speaker 2: it up sometimes as well visualization and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: and I like to pull Tarot card for the day.
Speaker 2: And I also I make protection oil like this protection
Speaker 2: oil like for spiritual protection against that you will and
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. Put that on kind of visualize
Speaker 2: the sphere or protection around me. Just to start my day,
Speaker 2: and then beyond that I do obviously I do rush
Speaker 2: like noon and dusk and midnight as well, and that's
Speaker 2: kind of the extent of my daily practice. Also writing
Speaker 2: down my dreams, that's been something I've been doing as well,
Speaker 2: and I have noticed a huge difference in how much
Speaker 2: I'm able to recall, So that's been good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was something that I've even noticed, and I
Speaker 1: had somebody tell me the same thing, because I was
Speaker 1: always like, I really don't remember my dreams too much.
Speaker 1: Like start writing it down and you're realized all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you could start remembering more.
Speaker 2: To God, It's true, absolutely, And I actually read something
Speaker 2: kind of sciencey about this. Your dreams don't get in
Speaker 2: your long term memory. From what I read, your dreams
Speaker 2: don't get stored in your long term memory. They get
Speaker 2: stored in your short term memory. So you know, when
Speaker 2: you're in ground sleep and so when you wake up,
Speaker 2: if you write down the dream and you think about
Speaker 2: it immediately, then you kind of store it in your
Speaker 2: long term memory or or else it disappears. And I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, that is interesting.
Speaker 1: Now when you said you also, I guess kind of
Speaker 1: like visualize like a protective bowl around. You said something
Speaker 1: around that. Do you have you ever done the middle
Speaker 1: pillar before?
Speaker 2: I have, yes, And that's again that's something I want
Speaker 2: to incorporate into my daily or like switch up from
Speaker 2: doing the OLBRP as well. Yeah, that's and I love
Speaker 2: the kind of visualization aspect and the energy where yeah it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you mentioned visualization and then like meditating and stuff,
Speaker 1: that made me think of that because it is a
Speaker 1: meditation that if you do it what they're telling you know,
Speaker 1: you will stop visualizing things and all this stuff going
Speaker 1: around you kind of like a bubble. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: it's a great meditation to visualize stuff too.
Speaker 2: I agree. That's a big part of my practice and
Speaker 2: a big part of what I've been practicing recently as well,
Speaker 2: and just kind of always Yeah. Absolutely, And I think
Speaker 2: it transfers from my witchcraft stuff to my alima stuff
Speaker 2: really well as well, because it's just a big overarching thing.
Speaker 2: And I think that applies to all magical practice because
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, so much of it
Speaker 2: is energy work and visualization. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I think just my opinion, I think when it
Speaker 1: comes into magic, I do think kind of being able
Speaker 1: to close your eyes and visualize things or create your
Speaker 1: own images is very important. That's just my opinion. So
Speaker 1: as soon as you said that, I was like, oh, nice,
Speaker 1: because I was big into that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's important.
Speaker 1: Now I know you're also one thing too that I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask. When you do your stuff, if you're
Speaker 1: going to do a spell or ritual whatever you call it,
Speaker 1: do you do you go by like lunar tiny lunar
Speaker 1: timing or planetary forces or anything like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I do like to do for the lunar timing
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, like waxing, waning moon, full moon,
Speaker 2: on the dark moon, I do all my hikate stuff,
Speaker 2: and I'll do meditation and sometimes it's it's intense, but
Speaker 2: but I love that. Uh. And I do my full moon,
Speaker 2: my my waxing waning stuff, and then planetary timing. I
Speaker 2: like that as well. It's not always practical, you know,
Speaker 2: if you have a full pall lot, but when you
Speaker 2: can it's great. But even just doing something on the
Speaker 2: day of the week associated with that planet, I like
Speaker 2: doing that as well. But if I can do it
Speaker 2: like on the planetary hour, I love that.
Speaker 1: Nice. See I think I'm not sure, Like you know,
Speaker 1: people who are may not be into the stuff that
Speaker 1: listened to the show. That's more of a thing I've
Speaker 1: been trying to like ask some of the guests just
Speaker 1: to kind of hammer a point that I don't know
Speaker 1: if a lot of people realize. Like even the moon,
Speaker 1: depending on if it's waxing and waning, is also you know,
Speaker 1: I guess the thing that you work with a deal with.
Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely, yeah, waxing when you want to kind
Speaker 2: of increase something and bring stuff in and waiting for
Speaker 2: when you want to shed and.
Speaker 1: Release, Yeah, banish or in vogue kind of too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely uh. And I like working with
Speaker 2: the like I said earlier, dark moon energy with Hikata,
Speaker 2: I think that's really good for shadow work and for
Speaker 2: maybe delving into some deep stuff that you might be avoiding,
Speaker 2: because I definitely have those themes come up. My last one,
Speaker 2: my last meditation I did with Hikata after leaving her
Speaker 2: an offering and praying to her and everything on the
Speaker 2: Dark Moon, I really ended up confronting my fear of death,
Speaker 2: and I had this kind of like looming fear of
Speaker 2: anxiety for like the next two days. But as I
Speaker 2: processed it mentally and like worked through it. I kind
Speaker 2: of became okay with it, and that was really interesting
Speaker 2: as well. And it coincided with some things in my
Speaker 2: personal life as well, kind of related to death, so
Speaker 2: it was it's kind of interesting to see how those
Speaker 2: things come into play.
Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting the whole death aspect. That's a
Speaker 1: very cool I think that's a lot. I was going
Speaker 1: to ask, and you kind of just brought it up already.
Speaker 1: Now shadow work, What role does shadow work play in
Speaker 1: your path? Because I know you do speak on that
Speaker 1: and I know you are into.
Speaker 2: It, so yeah, I think it's super important. I think
Speaker 2: that I do think that for you know, people with
Speaker 2: kind of heavier trauma and stuff like that, I think
Speaker 2: it's good to work with a therapist, like actual professional
Speaker 2: can guide you through that. I myself have also been
Speaker 2: to therapy, you know, and I think that's really useful
Speaker 2: for anybody actually, not just people Trump. I think everybody
Speaker 2: should do that if they have the means, if they're
Speaker 2: able to at some point. But shadow I think it's
Speaker 2: I think it's a great tool for self development and exploration.
Speaker 2: I think knowing yourself, like know thyself, that is so
Speaker 2: important as a magical practitioner, as a spiritual person or
Speaker 2: as a person in general. So I think that it's
Speaker 2: something that's not it's not easy, but it's something that
Speaker 2: is important to do, and you know, facing our fears,
Speaker 2: understanding our flaws for lack of a better word, and
Speaker 2: understanding the kind of influences from our past that shape
Speaker 2: why we do what we do, why we say the
Speaker 2: things we say, why we treat people in our lives
Speaker 2: the way that we do treat them, Because every single
Speaker 2: one of us has something that you know, affects how
Speaker 2: we show up for ourselves and for other people. And
Speaker 2: so I think through that is so so important and
Speaker 2: you'll be so much better for it as a person.
Speaker 1: I totally totally agree. Do you think, like as a
Speaker 1: magician or a ceremonial magician, do you think that is
Speaker 1: something that's actually supposed to be incorporated in their work,
Speaker 1: is actually shadow work and working on themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, And I think it can take
Speaker 2: many different forms, but I think that at least self
Speaker 2: development in general the form of therapy, but just like
Speaker 2: delving into your psyche and really understanding yourself, I think
Speaker 2: for ceremonial magician even is important and I think also
Speaker 2: like talking about filima, for example, because such a big
Speaker 2: part of it is our spiritual development. But before we
Speaker 2: can fully develop spiritually, also have to, like the Maslows
Speaker 2: hierarchy of needs, you know, we have to kind of
Speaker 2: take care of ournies as well, and that's a good
Speaker 2: place for us to start. So I do think, like
Speaker 2: I personally would say that that's the thing all magicians
Speaker 2: should do and all magical practitioners because it'll it'll make
Speaker 2: your magic stronger, it will make you a better person.
Speaker 1: And how do you tell? How do you tell? Like
Speaker 1: I guess maybe the difference between intuition, projection and wishful thinking.
Speaker 2: Oh oh wow, that's a good question. It's a difference
Speaker 2: between intuition projection and wishful thinking.
Speaker 1: That's a tough one, even thinking like if I were
Speaker 1: to answer that, I'm like, fuck, that's a tough question.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I can't even always tell the difference. I'm like, do
Speaker 2: they hate me? Or is my intuition telling me something?
Speaker 2: But that that is a really good question, and I
Speaker 2: don't know if I can give the best answer to
Speaker 2: that without thinking on it first, you know, But I
Speaker 2: do think that I think part of that is also
Speaker 2: like going back to shadow work. I think understanding our
Speaker 2: own tendencies and our own insecurities can help with that, because,
Speaker 2: for example, if you have certain insecurities that make you
Speaker 2: automatically think, oh, this person hates me, and you do
Speaker 2: some introspection and thinking on that, and you kind of understand, oh,
Speaker 2: this is something that I tell myself because maybe as
Speaker 2: a child I was ostracized a lot in school or
Speaker 2: something like that, and you can kind of stop projecting
Speaker 2: that on other people and kind of understand, oh, that's
Speaker 2: not my intuition telling me that. That's me projecting my
Speaker 2: past experiences onto other people who don't hate me. So
Speaker 2: I think I think that's a big part of it,
Speaker 2: is kind of understanding yourself and kind of what's going
Speaker 2: on up here.
Speaker 1: No, I think it was Actually you answered that really good.
Speaker 1: Actually I totally know what you were getting. I would
Speaker 1: even say sometimes I think like, uh, like sometimes like
Speaker 1: for myself, i'd even catch it like that's just my
Speaker 1: ego trying to preserve some shit. Yeah, And sometimes I think,
Speaker 1: like we were talking about before, I guess kind of
Speaker 1: like like a thing popping into your head. I thought, uh,
Speaker 1: sometimes like when I would get those, like some random
Speaker 1: thought that would pop into my head. I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe that I should listen to, you know, because it
Speaker 1: always seems to be like one of the more honest ones,
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't trying to mind fuck myself and give
Speaker 1: myself an answer. I wanted to hear, you.
Speaker 2: Know, absolutely like over time that discernment gets.
Speaker 1: Better too, Yes, yes, yes, nice. Nice. Have you ever
Speaker 1: had an experience that you couldn't, like really rationally explain
Speaker 1: that kind of your worldview?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had that happen before. I don't know what
Speaker 2: this experience changed my worldview, because I already believe in spirits,
Speaker 2: the spirit world and stuff like that. But I did
Speaker 2: have kind of a spooky experience I like to tell
Speaker 2: people about and that I could not rationalize at all.
Speaker 2: So quick story time. I was with my dad and
Speaker 2: as you guys can probably tell by now, me and
Speaker 2: my dad are closed because I brought him up a
Speaker 2: few times. But I visited him in England, or I
Speaker 2: tried to, like every year or so. And one year
Speaker 2: we were at Abury for the summer solstice and there's
Speaker 2: a stone circle there, Apriy stone Circle, but they have
Speaker 2: like the summer Solstice festival, so we went to that
Speaker 2: the night before and then the day of we're just
Speaker 2: like exploring. April's is the day of the solstice, and
Speaker 2: we ended up going to this neolithic barrier too, and
Speaker 2: we like, on our way there, there's this like big
Speaker 2: flock of curls like flying above us. No big deal,
Speaker 2: whatever happens, and then we walk into the tomb and
Speaker 2: the first thing and there's like these little rooms, I
Speaker 2: guess you would say, like I don't know, little sections.
Speaker 2: And the first thing I noticed was that there were
Speaker 2: birds nesting there, and they were behaving very strangely, not
Speaker 2: like any normal bird out in the wild. You could
Speaker 2: walk up to them and they would just stare at
Speaker 2: you like they were alive. But they would just stare
Speaker 2: at you and just look at you like they were
Speaker 2: scared of you. They didn't fly away, nothing like that,
Speaker 2: and almost like they were in the days. It was
Speaker 2: really weird. I don't know if there's some kind of
Speaker 2: scientific reason for this, but it was very odd. And
Speaker 2: then me and my dad walked further into the tomb
Speaker 2: and like I was stone called stone cold, sober mind you,
Speaker 2: no drugs, no alcohol.
Speaker 4: And.
Speaker 2: I started feeling woozy and just seeing these like purple
Speaker 2: kaleidoscopic shapes. I did not take shrooms, so nothing. And
Speaker 2: later on my dad told me he saw a woman,
Speaker 2: like a figure of a woman crying, like on the
Speaker 2: QVE floor. And he's like a skeptic too. He's not like,
Speaker 2: oh ghosts like he's he's he's a skeptic, like I
Speaker 2: said earlier, like growing up he was an atheist. He's
Speaker 2: kind of more agnostic now. And I just had the
Speaker 2: feeling that we have to get out of there, but
Speaker 2: I also felt like there's I just remember thinking this
Speaker 2: is some kind of like pootal to the other world
Speaker 2: or something like that. And we ended up leaving and
Speaker 2: we were like booking it to our airbnb and just
Speaker 2: like running through these cornfields and our airbnb was on
Speaker 2: a farm, and this is kind of a funny part.
Speaker 2: As soon as we like got onto the property, these
Speaker 2: floodlights came on and we were like screaming because we
Speaker 2: were sold. Here was like an episode of Scooby Doo.
Speaker 2: And then we like ran up to our airbnb and
Speaker 2: we went inside, but more weird shit happened. The light
Speaker 2: started flickering like in the living room and it wasn't
Speaker 2: doing that the night before. And then the weirdest thing
Speaker 2: that happened that night was I went to take a
Speaker 2: shower and I wasn't in the shower yet, the shower
Speaker 2: was off, and the shower had like turned on by itself,
Speaker 2: and I was just like freaked out. And then he
Speaker 2: saw the light on the TV flickering all night and
Speaker 2: it wasn't doing that the night before. So that to
Speaker 2: me just like solidified my belief in spirits in the
Speaker 2: spirit world. Because my dad, who was a skeptic, and
Speaker 2: I both had this crazy paranormal experience on the solstice
Speaker 2: and neither of us could rationalize it, neither of us
Speaker 2: could explain it away, and it was insane. It was.
Speaker 2: That was my craziest paranormal experience to date.
Speaker 1: That is, that was pretty wild, especially I mean the
Speaker 1: fact you have all the confirmation somebody else was there
Speaker 1: and saw the shit, you know that it.
Speaker 2: Was real exactly, and a skeptic take at that it
Speaker 2: was it was insane. Wow, Yeah, it was. It was scary.
Speaker 2: It's funny telling it now, but yeah, we were booking it.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. When what do you think what mistakes do
Speaker 1: you think people make when they rush into magic or
Speaker 1: esoteric practices.
Speaker 2: If you've noticed, Oh, that's another good question. I think
Speaker 2: that people first getting into magic, I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people are really excited to get into the flashy
Speaker 2: stuff and the cool stuff. Totally understandable, like we've all
Speaker 2: been there, like when you start obviously when I get
Speaker 2: into the cool ship. But I think that it's really
Speaker 2: important to also ground yourself and remember, like I need
Speaker 2: to learn meditation. We're talking about visualization earlier. I need
Speaker 2: to learn visualization, and I need to learn how to
Speaker 2: ground myself. How do I keep myself centered? How do
Speaker 2: I you know, like just these little not little, they're
Speaker 2: not little at all, but just these kind of basic
Speaker 2: foundational things like starting with that, I think that's important.
Speaker 2: I think I think another thing is like boxing yourself
Speaker 2: into early. I think that's the thing that a lot
Speaker 2: of people do. I know this is a lot in
Speaker 2: like the witchcraft community for sure, especially with I mean
Speaker 2: I'm a younger person, but especially with younger people with
Speaker 2: I'm this type of witch, like I'm I don't know,
Speaker 2: a green witch or whatever. I think that peoples are
Speaker 2: generally useless, at least at the beginning of your practice,
Speaker 2: because I think that you really need to take the
Speaker 2: time to learn everything you can about the path that
Speaker 2: you're getting into and take the time to figure out
Speaker 2: what you like and what works for you, and you know,
Speaker 2: don't live in yourself at the beginning of your of
Speaker 2: your path. I think that's a big kind of thing
Speaker 2: people run into. Those are the two big ones for
Speaker 2: me that I'm thinking of right now. But yeah, I think,
Speaker 2: you know, in general, like starting out not limiting yourself,
Speaker 2: starting with those basics and building a strong base of knowledge.
Speaker 2: Like the Internet is very useful, I think for exposure
Speaker 2: to ideas initially, but I don't think people should rely
Speaker 2: on social media for magical advice. Like I see people
Speaker 2: asking on TikTok like what should I do for this
Speaker 2: kind of ritual? Or like should I practice this? And
Speaker 2: I'm like, why are you asking these people on TikTok,
Speaker 2: because then half the comments are misinformation, like people who
Speaker 2: don't know what they're talking about. Much better to go
Speaker 2: straight to the source and read books or you know,
Speaker 2: if you can, like talk to more experienced practitioners in person,
Speaker 2: or you know, message somebody, or I don't know, join
Speaker 2: join an academic group or order or just just something
Speaker 2: like that or take a course.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Is that something you've noticed more nowadays? Is academia kind
Speaker 1: of coming into the circle.
Speaker 2: Like academa coming more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, into into magic and you know, orders because
Speaker 1: I think I have.
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know, because I think that like
Speaker 2: me personally, I don't know if I've been around like
Speaker 2: long enough for there to be a comparison to the past,
Speaker 2: like with my time in I guess magical community, or
Speaker 2: because I did spend a good bit of the beginning
Speaker 2: of my practice just not on social media at all
Speaker 2: or or in person communities either, And so coming into this,
Speaker 2: I've kind of it's kind of always been like that
Speaker 2: for me. But I think also so with academia being
Speaker 2: more in these circles, there's also that opposite end where
Speaker 2: there's kind of anti intellectualisms for people too in our
Speaker 2: society in general. I think that extends out as well,
Speaker 2: but I think that's less so in like ceremonial magic
Speaker 2: and occult spaces, and more so in maybe some more
Speaker 2: new ag areas and more some of the witchcraft community
Speaker 2: in paying.
Speaker 1: A community as well, I think, or maybe I've just
Speaker 1: come across more people that are into it since podcasting,
Speaker 1: But for me, it seems like I think that it
Speaker 1: tends to get a little bit more. I think looked
Speaker 1: at I try to come across from that angle too,
Speaker 1: So I guess if people listening to my show, they
Speaker 1: must be into it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the occult stuff and like the occult
Speaker 2: community and more like western naso terrorism. I definitely noticed that,
Speaker 2: and I love that. I think it's I think that's great.
Speaker 1: You know something I meant to ask you earlier. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say that this is Exactadeemi. Well, I guess maybe
Speaker 1: if you wanted to do it correctly, it would be
Speaker 1: a lot of research. When you mentioned that you didn't
Speaker 1: get into Solomonica, I guess, like you mean kind of
Speaker 1: like the Geisha was part of not doing that because
Speaker 1: of the whole setup and how much shit you had
Speaker 1: to get into like that, if you want to do
Speaker 1: it supposedly, right. I mean, I was never really too
Speaker 1: tempted to really work with demons, but when I even
Speaker 1: looked at the Goaysia, I was like, I'm not this
Speaker 1: is too far.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I I'm a normal person. In the twenty
Speaker 2: first century, like I don't want to do all that.
Speaker 2: I think that was part of it. And then part
Speaker 2: of it too for me was like wanting to get
Speaker 2: away from Abrahamic influence. I guess yeah, no.
Speaker 1: I could see that. Yeah, it makes.
Speaker 2: Sense, but that was a part of it as well,
Speaker 2: because it's just so much and it's very specific, like
Speaker 2: the setup, the the tools, all of that. I found
Speaker 2: it interesting though, but I think for me was kind
Speaker 2: of the Abrahamic or the kind of Christian thing.
Speaker 1: Was it for me? You got a lot of garb
Speaker 1: and then you gotta put like, you know, the sigil.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of work in that, and then we're
Speaker 1: working with that stuff.
Speaker 2: Crazy.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. Just random question only
Speaker 1: because I don't even know what I forgot. I already forgo,
Speaker 1: already lost my thought. I was gonna ask you something
Speaker 1: about World War two. Yeah, I had something to do
Speaker 1: with the cult is to go into that, but I
Speaker 1: just totally forgot. Sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm no expert on World War two, bro.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you if you thought it was
Speaker 1: like maybe a cult and a cult war, but I
Speaker 1: totally forgot why I was going to even say that.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a while ago about like, which isn't a
Speaker 2: coltists doing magic against the Nazis like in World War two.
Speaker 2: I can't say I'm like super like, I know that happened,
Speaker 2: but I can't say I'm like super well first on
Speaker 2: that history. But you know when people say, like fighting
Speaker 2: fascism with magic is like some new thing that that's
Speaker 2: like trending ar or whatever that people are doing. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: Oh no, I.
Speaker 1: Mean Hitler was actually using magic. No, I think the
Speaker 1: whole actually magic. Well yeah, yeah, yeah, I just wish
Speaker 1: I could remember why. Oh, this is why. That's why
Speaker 1: if you're just wondering if you did believe that, Because
Speaker 1: prior to the war, I found this interesting, Like when
Speaker 1: Italy was kind of like starting to pull their shit too,
Speaker 1: they went over and uh invaded Ethiopia and they took
Speaker 1: an Obelisk, and they took the Lion of Judah. And
Speaker 1: at that time when they did that, the ruler of
Speaker 1: Ethiopia actually was deemed as somebody who had the bloodline
Speaker 1: from the Salomonic family. So I found that like really interesting.
Speaker 1: There was actually even a country up you know, up
Speaker 1: until I guess what was that in the thirties. Oh,
Speaker 1: whenever it ended actually ruled because the ruler was supposedly
Speaker 1: had you know, it was the badline of the solemn moony. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really weird that actually were like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just like, you know, it's interesting to see what
Speaker 1: countries of people acknowledge this stuff outside the United States
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, yeah that's something I was like, that's another
Speaker 2: rabbit hole from sure for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, let me see what other what
Speaker 1: how do you ground yourself? Like, how do you keep
Speaker 1: yourself grounded while exploring you know, kind of intense spiritual stuff.
Speaker 2: Keeping myself grounded, that's that's really important to me. Having
Speaker 2: people in my life that keep me grounded is really helpful,
Speaker 2: you know, my boyfriend, my friends, like all those kinds
Speaker 2: of people, and my start. I think spending time in
Speaker 2: nature is super super important for me. So I try
Speaker 2: to spend a few minutes outside every day, even it's
Speaker 2: just ten minutes, and then like maybe once a week
Speaker 2: I'll try to have like a walk outside, like a
Speaker 2: hike or or just a walk out on the trail,
Speaker 2: whatever it is that's super important to me. And then
Speaker 2: also working out lifting. Yes, I do it five days
Speaker 2: a week. That keeps me grounded and like in my
Speaker 2: body and just you know, part of the real world too,
Speaker 2: not getting overly caught up in one thing or one
Speaker 2: aspect of life, you know, and just like having different
Speaker 2: hobbies I think is really important. So I'll read, I
Speaker 2: won't just read about the occult and spirituality. I'll read
Speaker 2: fiction as well, and I'll watch TV shows and do
Speaker 2: like normal person things, but just try to stay ground
Speaker 2: curial as well as the spiritual.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think it's great advice, especially like that
Speaker 1: losing yourself completely in that like still you know, being
Speaker 1: attached to the real world and still like you know,
Speaker 1: doing other things.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like trust me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I like, like you mentioned the gym. I mean,
Speaker 1: I do think for me that is that is huge.
Speaker 1: It's even a way I guess of probably just getting
Speaker 1: out aggression or if things are bothering.
Speaker 2: Me, you know, absolutely, And I think and and even
Speaker 2: I mean, I know I was talking about like going
Speaker 2: to the gym and getting out of just like doing
Speaker 2: spiritual stuff. But I think it's a great way to
Speaker 2: get your your energy moving too. And I just feel
Speaker 2: like moving my body almost every day. Things in my
Speaker 2: life feel less stuck too, And I just find that interesting,
Speaker 2: like just that energy moving, you know, I think that's
Speaker 2: really important. Just moving your body in some way is
Speaker 2: really important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's like a phrase I might be
Speaker 1: saying it backwards move a muscle, change of thought, like
Speaker 1: to even say that sometimes have you ever noticed for me,
Speaker 1: I even think doing the l b r P technically
Speaker 1: counsel as like a physical meditation, But do you think
Speaker 1: like sometimes when you're working out, do you notice like
Speaker 1: it's almost kind of like a physical meditation?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, absolutely heavy. I have to breathe and just
Speaker 2: like really on my breath.
Speaker 1: Yes, But.
Speaker 2: Like I definitely feel that that aspect of it, And
Speaker 2: I've really been thinking about that lately, is like just
Speaker 2: thinking about how I can connect the gym and and
Speaker 2: lifting and like that aspect of my life with my
Speaker 2: magical practice too, because I definitely feel like there's an
Speaker 2: energy like you're moving, and there's there's an energy work
Speaker 2: aspect that you can tap into with that as well.
Speaker 2: And then I've been thinking about that, but I haven't
Speaker 2: quite fleshed out my ideas on that yet.
Speaker 1: I think definitely think you're onto something there for sure,
Speaker 1: definitely think that helps matters.
Speaker 2: This is life.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people I know that are huge
Speaker 1: into this stuff, and they all have some sort of
Speaker 1: like physical way of like keeping their body active or
Speaker 1: just moving it, you know, keeping it awake and you
Speaker 1: know all that stuff. What since getting into this stuff? Uh,
Speaker 1: what misconceptions do people project? Have you had? Like people
Speaker 1: kind of project onto you right away when they when
Speaker 1: you mentioned this stuff. Have you ever had a deal
Speaker 1: with like silly shit?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was so much soilichit it's not even funny.
Speaker 2: I guess there's stuff from from like lay people, and
Speaker 2: there's stuff from other magical or spiritual community people who
Speaker 2: don't know much about filima and stuff like that. So
Speaker 2: you know, I guess from lay people. I mean the
Speaker 2: first one is like, oh, you must worship the devil
Speaker 2: like your safeness blah blah blah. I think a lot
Speaker 2: of us have probably gotten that. Uh, some people it's
Speaker 2: worth like laning. To some of them it's not. But
Speaker 2: you know, some people are just setting their ways. And
Speaker 2: there's also people who are who are very you know,
Speaker 2: extreme Christian who think anything that's not Christianity is double worship,
Speaker 2: like Yoga's demonished, and it's like shock the fuck up.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know I've gotten that. I've gotten people
Speaker 2: who think that, you know, I practiced witchcraft for cursing people,
Speaker 2: or that it's like all baneful like bad stuff, And
Speaker 2: it's like why why would I care enough about you
Speaker 2: to curse you to put all my energy, to put
Speaker 2: my energy into doing that, Like you're not that important?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: And then I guess with Thelema, A lot of people
Speaker 2: have misconceptions about curly, about the Lima as a system,
Speaker 2: you know, about like it just being like hedonism and
Speaker 2: doing whatever you want.
Speaker 5: Somebody's getting It's it's so much and the amount of
Speaker 5: people ever since I kind of started being more vocal
Speaker 5: about like Felima and like talking about it, who have
Speaker 5: used the whole do what that will, like do whatever
Speaker 5: you want?
Speaker 2: Argument watch a moment like I've never thought about that before.
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know what's funny, Really, anybody that
Speaker 1: I knew that was serious into this stuff never took
Speaker 1: that that way anyway.
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly. It's all people who don't know what they're
Speaker 2: talking about it.
Speaker 1: It's like somebody read a couple of memes on Crowley
Speaker 1: or Thelma and then start running their mouths like saying
Speaker 1: stupid ship, and it's.
Speaker 2: Very obvious that they're just regurgitating what they've heard someone
Speaker 2: else who is ignorant say, so I don't I don't
Speaker 2: take that too seriously. And then you know, sometimes I'll
Speaker 2: link them to like one of my little videos or
Speaker 2: something like, Okay, so this is what we'll talk about this.
Speaker 2: If you're interested, you can maybe learn something new, and
Speaker 2: if you're not, that's okay, we don't need to continue
Speaker 2: this conversation. But there's a lot of misconceptions out there.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, when I first started off this podcast,
Speaker 1: I was actually more in the conspiracy community actually, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, there was I'm just gonna be real, there's
Speaker 1: a few podcasts out there that really lean on that
Speaker 1: ship just to shit on the Lemur and Crowley all
Speaker 1: the time. It's always to do with that will. But
Speaker 1: they never finished the rest of it where it says
Speaker 1: love is the law, love on.
Speaker 2: The will under will.
Speaker 1: Like why are you leaving? You know, there's love in
Speaker 1: this whole phrase, and you seem to just think it
Speaker 1: means horrible.
Speaker 2: Shit exactly define like waking a man in the world
Speaker 2: and he was sacrificing babies and all this the stupid shit.
Speaker 1: I just I mean, listen to me. The guy could
Speaker 1: have maybe fallen to his own demons at it, you know,
Speaker 1: at the end. But I mean, I do think again,
Speaker 1: not putting him up on a pedestal, because he even
Speaker 1: said that twice in his own work. Don't do that.
Speaker 1: I'm not the one. I do think he was onto something,
Speaker 1: and I do think he had a glimpse of love
Speaker 1: and beauty at some point.
Speaker 2: And I think nuance is so important, and that's something
Speaker 2: that is missing from honestly, maybe even a majority of
Speaker 2: the conversations I see online about be it occultism and magic,
Speaker 2: be it politics, be it I don't know, think of
Speaker 2: any kind of any topic of conversation, but I think
Speaker 2: nuance is really important and it's something that people need
Speaker 2: to lean into more. Because Curly wasn't perfect, and he
Speaker 2: wasn't you know there there. He was a flawed human being.
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean we just write him off completely
Speaker 2: and just say he's basically satan and like he's the
Speaker 2: worst guy ever, because that's also not true. And I
Speaker 2: think it's really important to have like a balanced active
Speaker 2: of people especially historical figures, you know, like they lived
Speaker 2: in a different time and place as well, And I
Speaker 2: think it's important to keep that in mind too.
Speaker 1: I agree, we got politicians now they're eating kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, let's be outraged over the right things.
Speaker 1: Please, Yeah, exactly right. That's magic in itself, I think, Actually, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh what what what do people you think romanticize about
Speaker 1: the occult that they really should not?
Speaker 2: Oh, things that people romanticize about the occult that they
Speaker 2: should not. That's a good question. I think that maybe
Speaker 2: people come into vehicle with expectations of it being something
Speaker 2: it's not, you know, where it's like super flashy like
Speaker 2: the movies or or whatever, which is normal because it's
Speaker 2: like if you haven't been exposed to it yet and
Speaker 2: you haven't been in the community and you haven't practiced yet,
Speaker 2: that's natural. I think we all kind of probably had
Speaker 2: that coming in. So so I think that's a big thing,
Speaker 2: you know, but like it's not like the movies, and
Speaker 2: you know, don't get disappointed coming into it and it
Speaker 2: like you're still in this on earth, you know, like
Speaker 2: it's not. So I do think that that's a thing
Speaker 2: that people do, and I did it and I'm sure
Speaker 2: everyone does it at the beginning of their path.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that for sure. I did the
Speaker 1: same thing as modious. Isn't going to actually physically appear
Speaker 1: in your living.
Speaker 2: Room, I don't think, right. It's not like the Sandman,
Speaker 2: where like they do the ritual and he just like
Speaker 2: dropped down off the full in front of them, just
Speaker 2: like no, sorry, that would be cool.
Speaker 1: But at least happened in your first month, because I
Speaker 1: think I know what you mean. It Like when I
Speaker 1: came into magic right away, I was, I think kind
Speaker 1: of expecting like more, I guess serious stuff at first
Speaker 1: that happened, you know, and then you kind.
Speaker 2: Spirit work and stuff like that. It's like, oh, they're
Speaker 2: definitely just gonna like appear in front of me, Like
Speaker 2: I'm gonna see apparitions. It's gonna be like so cool,
Speaker 2: like Edgar Allan Poe and it was. You know, it's
Speaker 2: not usually how it is. You might see things, but yeah,
Speaker 2: a lot of the time it's just things you that
Speaker 2: come into your mind and intuitions and smaller things like that.
Speaker 2: At least in my view.
Speaker 1: I would even say something that took me a little
Speaker 1: off too, And I think it's stuff that we and
Speaker 1: you both kind of on already, is like the beginner things.
Speaker 1: I was just like, I got to meditate, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I gotta do breath work. I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to visually, you know. And it's just like I don't
Speaker 1: think I really really thought it, Like I just thought
Speaker 1: it was gonna be like, oh, you know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: start spinning around drawing this ship doing this, and then
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, fuck, I actually got to put
Speaker 1: some more work in exactly yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So no, I do think that was a that's a
Speaker 1: good Yeah, definitely. It definitely got me like that. I
Speaker 1: got it like maybe like sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2: I said it happens to the best of us.
Speaker 1: Yes, I like that phrase. I say that a lot
Speaker 1: actually happens to the best of us. For somebody drawing
Speaker 1: to occultism but genuinely uh serious about it, where should
Speaker 1: they begin? What's your advice?
Speaker 2: A lot depends on like the path that you're drawn
Speaker 2: to as well. But I think as a general thing
Speaker 2: or as a general starting place, I would say, explore
Speaker 2: different paths and see what you're interested in and and
Speaker 2: do a lot of reading. Do as much reading as
Speaker 2: you can, just like look at the foundational texts of
Speaker 2: whatever paths you're interested in. You know, if it's witchcraft,
Speaker 2: I mean there's so many there's so many witchcraft one
Speaker 2: on one books out there. There's other stuff you can
Speaker 2: look at too. There's like traditional witchcraft, there's WICCA, there's
Speaker 2: different types of WICCA. There's just like eclectic witchcraft that
Speaker 2: you could do. There's folk magic, you know, and then
Speaker 2: like in terms of their magical paths, I mean there's
Speaker 2: ceremonial magic, and then there's like different paths you can
Speaker 2: go within that, and there's just so much stuff that
Speaker 2: you can learn about. So I think starting off with
Speaker 2: that knowledge base is super important and going from there,
Speaker 2: I mean, like we said, meditation, learning, meditation, visualization, just
Speaker 2: like tapping into that spiritual current and then also learning
Speaker 2: to still your mind is super important. And I would
Speaker 2: say make sure you keep a record and write everything
Speaker 2: down because if you don't, you will regret it in
Speaker 2: the future. So keep a record, like write down the
Speaker 2: things you experience, write down the things that you learn
Speaker 2: as best you can, and your practice will shift most
Speaker 2: likely over time. I think that you know some people
Speaker 2: they start with something and they stick with it. But
Speaker 2: I feel like that's pretty rare for a lot of us.
Speaker 2: I mean, we go through kind of different phases and
Speaker 2: kind of end up finding something we're interested in or
Speaker 2: multiple things. Like I think my path is always going
Speaker 2: to be multifaceted with a lot of different influences. And
Speaker 2: don't be afraid to ask questions. I think that especially online.
Speaker 2: Now I'm not saying ask questions on TikTok, but there
Speaker 2: are people you can connect with their communities you can join,
Speaker 2: there's discord servers, there's courses you can take, there's there
Speaker 2: are people's patreons you can join. You know, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of people out there who have a lot of
Speaker 2: knowledge to give, who are actual, reliable sources of information
Speaker 2: and of guidance. So I think those things are are
Speaker 2: super important. And take everything you see on social media
Speaker 2: with the grain of salt, and don't stop reading books.
Speaker 2: Books are important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think you're right about the whole investigating
Speaker 1: and read as much as you can. Like you said
Speaker 1: this so much out there, and I would even say,
Speaker 1: you know how to tell a good in my opinion,
Speaker 1: if you asking somebody their advice how to tell somebody,
Speaker 1: if they're good enough to listen to, they're probably going
Speaker 1: to be like, I'm going to direct you over to
Speaker 1: here to read this. They're not going to give you
Speaker 1: the answer and tell you what it is. They're going
Speaker 1: to tell you where to go to find out more information,
Speaker 1: you know, And uh yeah, and I even, like you
Speaker 1: were saying, with the discord service, there's a there's a
Speaker 1: few people I know out there now with the discord
Speaker 1: service is a plethora of information, regardless of what they're
Speaker 1: into like that, not to Mayvis. You know, I've knew
Speaker 1: a few people that are in her discord server and
Speaker 1: they say, it's just amazing the amount of shit in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's eligible and she's I mean, when I
Speaker 2: talk to her, I'm just always amazed because I just
Speaker 2: learned so much and just finding those people, and like
Speaker 2: you said, her discord server, and then you could talk
Speaker 2: to other people who maybe have a little more experience,
Speaker 2: and they can they can help you find those sources
Speaker 2: that you learned from as well.
Speaker 1: One day, maybe I'm gonna get you on the show
Speaker 1: one day. I tried, I've tried to reach out to it,
Speaker 1: but I can't get her wrong, But uh yeah, all right. Next,
Speaker 1: I think I have what there's one thing you wish
Speaker 1: people understood about your work before judging it?
Speaker 2: Oh oh ha, There's there's a lot of things with that.
Speaker 2: I think that, especially for people who aren't familiar with
Speaker 2: magic and stuff like that is the assumption that dark
Speaker 2: equals bad, right, Like I work with dark and light.
Speaker 2: I kind of try to have as much of a
Speaker 2: balance as I can. But for example, with my work
Speaker 2: with Hikaate, you know, a lot of people who are
Speaker 2: kind of outside of this fear they see that as
Speaker 2: kind of scary, they see it as weird, or even
Speaker 2: with Carnunos, right, because that you know, the antler is
Speaker 2: the horn god, kind of archetype. People straightway think devil,
Speaker 2: which obviously isn't the case, right. Carnunos is the forest,
Speaker 2: nature and just just all things that are sacred and
Speaker 2: beautiful too, I think all of us deep down, you know.
Speaker 2: And so I want people to understand that dark does
Speaker 2: not necessarily mean evil, and that image of the devil
Speaker 2: that you see portrayed in Christianity demonizes pagan gods of nature.
Speaker 2: And so when you see people worshiping Carnunos, worshiping pan
Speaker 2: it's not devil worship. They're not evil. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: a big thing for me. And the other thing is
Speaker 2: kind of the wu wu assumption that I have like
Speaker 2: my head in the clouds, or I don't believe in science,
Speaker 2: or that I'm somehow less intelligent for being spiritual and
Speaker 2: for believing in magic and for being real whimsical. That's
Speaker 2: not true at all. You know, I believe in science.
Speaker 2: I'm interested in it. I'm also interested in magic, and
Speaker 2: I think that those two things definitely go hand in hand.
Speaker 2: And like actual magical practitioners know this, being anti science
Speaker 2: does not necessarily correlate with believing in magic and being
Speaker 2: a practitioner. And it does bother me that that's a
Speaker 2: misconception that people have because some of the most intelligent
Speaker 2: people I know also practice magic. And yeah, it's it's
Speaker 2: a shame that these misconceptions are still so common.
Speaker 1: Thank you for mentioning that that's even a post out.
Speaker 1: If you've ever seen me do it, sometimes I will
Speaker 1: throw it up every once in a while. It's not
Speaker 1: old dicks and demons like, it's not always like horrible
Speaker 1: bed stuff. There's a lot of magicians out there that
Speaker 1: are actually doing this stuff because they want to be
Speaker 1: a better person.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I would say a good number of people
Speaker 2: get into this stuff that people want to be a
Speaker 2: better person, they want to improve their lives, they want
Speaker 2: to maybe get out of a tough spot, or they
Speaker 2: just find it beautiful and they see how can add
Speaker 2: value to their lives. And there's nothing bad or evil
Speaker 2: about that. And obviously there's always there are always going
Speaker 2: to be bad people in every space. There are always
Speaker 2: going to be people who are you know, seeking power
Speaker 2: or seeking whatever. And but that's that's true for any
Speaker 2: space and in or outside of the magical sphere. But
Speaker 2: I think for the most part, people are here to
Speaker 2: grow and to improve and seek spiritual I don't know
Speaker 2: if enlightenment is my word, but spiritual attainment, I guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah. There's even like times in not saying this to
Speaker 1: pat myself on the back or say I'm better, because
Speaker 1: I'm not. But like there's even times like when I
Speaker 1: had my when I was you know, heavy into my practices.
Speaker 1: You know, I could do a ritual, you know, meditations
Speaker 1: and everything included almost like an hour long and that
Speaker 1: literally could have been just like the orgy really where
Speaker 1: I just set myself up to pray to God, and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I'm like, yo, like, not for nothing, but
Speaker 1: it's just like, you know, to a Christian or a
Speaker 1: Catholic who wants to demonize what I'm doing, it's like, you, like,
Speaker 1: what I just did to talk to God to ask
Speaker 1: him to make me a better person. That will probably
Speaker 1: take you three months to spend that much time in prayers.
Speaker 1: You're like, you know what I'm saying like that for nothing,
Speaker 1: but like I'm actually trying to really put myself into
Speaker 1: having a conversation with the Man, oh God or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, you know, and like saying, tell me you
Speaker 1: worshiped Satan. I'm like, fuck, really, yep.
Speaker 2: That's such a good point. How much praying?
Speaker 1: Yeah right, I mean at least I guess if you're
Speaker 1: a Catholic and might counsel roseries but you know, like
Speaker 1: but uh I.
Speaker 6: Think, yeah, no, I've thought about that, like yeah and whatever,
Speaker 6: but uh I think we'll we'll leave it there as well,
Speaker 6: if you don't mind.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Viv, that was really a great, great talk. I really
Speaker 1: had a good time with you, and you're really you're
Speaker 1: really impressive actually for your age. The amount of work
Speaker 1: that you're doing and how you're into it. Pretty cool,
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Good for you again, like I was saying
Speaker 1: before the show starts, hopefully in a few years I'll
Speaker 1: have you on the show for a book that you
Speaker 1: put out, so that.
Speaker 2: Would be wonderful. Thank you so much for me. This
Speaker 2: has been a wonderful conversation. You know, it's been my
Speaker 2: first podcast back in like yours, I go back online,
Speaker 2: so it's been really fun. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Great. Great, Please let everybody know where they can find
Speaker 1: your stuff, and you want to like remind them about
Speaker 1: your old YouTube or anything you know that you're going
Speaker 1: to be doing in the future.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. So you can follow me on Instagram, TikTok,
Speaker 2: threads as viv dot scarlet Star, and I will be
Speaker 2: posting videos on YouTube again starting in the summer, and
Speaker 2: that's Scarlet Star Sanctum. I will also be making a substack,
Speaker 2: so just like stay tuned on my socials for that
Speaker 2: for where I kind of get into the routine of
Speaker 2: writing and everything like that. And I'll also get my
Speaker 2: Patreon back up and running most likely this summer as well,
Speaker 2: So just stay tuned for all of that stuff and
Speaker 2: just follow me on those platforms for now, and I
Speaker 2: will give you guys updates on what's coming.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Thank you, and definitely follow her Instagram. I love
Speaker 1: how like you do like the planetary and elemental kind
Speaker 1: of associations and stuff like that. You know how you
Speaker 1: can like the basic stuff. I think that's cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I like to have like those, like resources
Speaker 2: for people, but in a way that's accessible and easy,
Speaker 2: so I don't need to make more of those.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, definitely, But thank you again, viv I really
Speaker 1: had a good time, and everybody in the chat, thank
Speaker 1: you for joining and thank you for the comments. And
Speaker 1: that is the end of another Occult Rejects and until
Speaker 1: the next one, everybody be well later.