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Speaker 1: This is a podcast from Minute Media.

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Speaker 2: Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds.

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Speaker 3: Lawrence, Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Surely You

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Can't Be Serious Podcast, Season number three.

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Speaker 2: I am so stinking excited. It's been too long, man,

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I'm glad to be back doing this with you. Yeah.

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Who needs Christmas? Who needs New Year's? Who needs time off?

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Who needs families and children? Yes, I've missed my buddy, man,

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I've missed you. And you know what, here's what I think. Okay,

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it's like we're made for each other, beauty and the beast.

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But if anyone else calls you a beast offered pair long,

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I just want you to know that you are my

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number one a guy. All right, everybody, welcome back for

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season three. We're starting off with a mammoth task. We

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are tackling Batman, Dark Knight, and a little bit of

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the Batman. I can't wait to see this. I think

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it's really promising looking. Yes, I think it's it's going

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to be more of a character study. It's going to

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be the darkness that the two movies that we were

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talking about jumped into, and not the bright and shiny

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made for kids garbage. Oh, my gosh.

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Speaker 4: You know, I went through Batman eighty nine. I studied

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Batman Returns, I studied Batman forever. I studied Batman and

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Robin along with Batman begins The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight,

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I said.

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Speaker 2: I did it all. Okay, Okay, I looked into all

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of it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the Batman Burton franchise of the eighties and nineties, Yeah,

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went down so fast.

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Speaker 2: It was just appalling how terrible those got so quickly. Yes,

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And as it turns out, it's really just history repeating itself,

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and it starts all the way back with the comic books.

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This darkness turned into bubblegum, campy pop, just to return

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to darkness, just to go back to pop. I mean,

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it just goes back and forth. I'm glad that they

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seemed to be resisting the urge to lighten things up. Well.

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I mean, if we were talking about what's happened after

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the Dark Knight trilogy, if we're talking about Zack Snyder's Batman,

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he went in directions that I think a lot of

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us weren't happy with. And certainly when Joss Whedon got

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a hold of it in the Justice League, he turned

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it into a bright colorful ball of puke, right, and

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so yeah, I think once again where we've reached that

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point that people said, why did we go bright and

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colorful with Batman yet again, when what truly works is

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our dark knight. You know, one of the things that

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excites me about the trip it looks gritty and dark.

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The thing that caught my ear more than anything, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Was the Something in the Way by Nirvana Underneath and

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you've really got to be listening for it.

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Speaker 2: And it's dark, and I'm like, man, that flashes me

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back to our episode absolutely, and it was you that

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you tuned me onto that. You're like, you got to

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you gotta see this preview right now. It's so good.

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And you start off with that sound of the ripping

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duct tape and the darkness that unfolds, and you've got

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a muscle car as the Batmobile, and you've got characters

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that are still characters. I mean, you see that villain

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and he it harkens back to those guys, even from

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the campy Batman nineteen sixty six version. But it's got

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the darkness and I'm really excited about who they have

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for the villain. I know, I'm Jim Carrey, no no, sorry, no,

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that's the wrong Riddler. Yeah, no, not that one.

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Speaker 4: It does look like they're gonna make the Riddler the

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bad guy, yes, but he is that same dark joker,

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anarchist looking character.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something going on there that's much much darker

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than a guy in a bright green spandex with question marks. Olover. Awesome, Awesome. Well,

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this is a mammoth task because people love these two

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movies and people strong feelings about this third one that's

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coming out. Yeah, so let's just talk about this for

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a second. The comic book the character first came about

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back in nineteen thirty nine, so we're talking over eighty

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years of history here, and we're only going to do

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a couple episodes on this, so we can't really devote

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the time that a full analysis of the Batman character deserves.

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We could spend probably an entire season just on the

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comic books and the cycles that it's gone through. We're

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going to give it the justice that we can give it,

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but focus mainly on the two most iconic movies, that

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being Batman eighty nine and The Dark Knight from two

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thousand and eight. Exactly exactly. So you mentioned it Batman first,

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appeared in Detective Comics number twenty seven, March thirtieth, nineteen

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thirty nine. Yeah. So the concept came about because Superman

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had become a success for DC Comics, and this young

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guy named Bob kin was interested in becoming involved in

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comic books. He loved to draw. He found out that

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Schuster and Segull were making like six hundred dollars a

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week back in nineteen thirties, money, which was something to behold. Right,

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this is the depression time, right, Detective Comics was trying

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to find another character, and so his answer was to

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come up with somebody that was kind of the antithesis

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of the Superman. You know, you mentioned that Bob Kane

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was right place, right time. Yeah, he was also very entrepreneurial. Yes,

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he saw them making some money and he's like, man,

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how can I get on board this train. It is

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important to note that Bob Kaine's primary goal was to

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become rich and famous. Well you know what he did that.

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He did do that. Now, he used some tactics that

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are questionable at the very best at best is questionable

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and downright dirty might be what some other people say,

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but we'll we can talk about that in a bit, okay, okay,

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So Bob kin to come up with an idea that

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he thinks is going to sell, decides to make something

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that is sort of the polar opposite of Superman.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: He's not bright and shiny, He's dark, He's mysterious, and

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he has three inspirations that lead him to creating what

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he would say would either be the Birdman or the Batman.

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By the way, I watched Birdman last night. Jed, who

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did our intro in our first season, Jet Who's got

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his own podcast out there called Limos and Roses. Be

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sure and check it out. He has been on me

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for like the last six years to watch this movie,

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and finally I did it, and I loved it. You

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hated it, right, dude, are you crazy? I thought it

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was great. I could see why you hated it because

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it's not your type of movie. But I really, I

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truly enjoyed it. But I thought it was interesting that

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the name of that was the Birdman, and the two

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ideas that Bob Kine had were either the Birdman or

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the Batman, and his inspiration came from a book he

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read by Leonardo da Vinci, where he had a glider

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a single man glider that he had drawn, and the

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wings looked like the wings of a bat, and so

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he thought, well, this is this is great. I'm going

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to take this and I'm going to combine it with

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my other hero, who is Zoro. Right. And you'll notice

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a lot of times in the Marquee when the family

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walks out of the movie theater, they've been watching the

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Mask of Zorro. Okay, So he's like, okay, I'm going

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to combine these guys. So what he comes up with

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is a guy in a red suit, a red suit,

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a red suit, and he has the Zoro style mask

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just over the eyes, and he has literal bat wings

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coming out of his back, right, not a cad but

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like fixed glider wings. Yeah, fixed slider wings. So he

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goes to his buddy Bill figure. Bill Finger is an

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important feature in our story. We will we will talk

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about that in more detail as we go on down

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the line, but it is important to note that Bill

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Finger is the one that said this is not quite right.

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To Bobcaine's credit, he knew it wasn't quite right. So

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he goes to his gifted and talented friend Bill Finger yeah,

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and says, well, what do you think, and he's like,

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well he needs to since he's fighting crime at night

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and he's a vigilanti and stuff like that, he needs

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to be you know, masked and covered.

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Speaker 4: And so that little domino mask that's not really going

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to do the trick. So let's cover him up and

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give him a cow.

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Speaker 2: Also, those fixed wings, it's not really practical, and what

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happens when he's walking around, so let's give him a cake? Right,

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And he also changed it from red to gray, right, right,

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because he's at night, right, he's got to blend into

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the shadows. Yeah. And so Bob Kane takes this creation,

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which also the cowl included the little bat like ears

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on top, and takes it to DC Comics, then Detective

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Comics and says, here's my character. They say, we love it.

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They signed a contract and on the contract is his name,

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Detective Comics name, and nobody else.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and there's a whole We watched a document around

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this called Batman and Bill.

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Speaker 2: I recommend it to everybody, whether you are a comic

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book fan or not, you definitely need to watch this

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dive in because what happened that day was one of

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those make or break moments and Bob Kane chose to

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do the wrong thing and had to double down on

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it again and again throughout the course of his life,

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and it cost poor Bill Finger a career. Yeah, so

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we got the comic books. He's immediately he is a

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hit out of the gate, and interestingly his first year

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he's got guns right, and he's market people. I mean,

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it's he really is a vigilanting right, the no kill

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Batman did not exist yet. This was a guy who

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was a vigilante, who was going out and doing dirty

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work and important to the idea of detective comics. He

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was solving mysteries. He was like a detective. And then

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things changed. Okay, so we can keep on going on

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the comic books, but we're here to talk about movies.

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I want to talk about nineteen forty three Batman's first

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appearance in film. It was that was really pretty much

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just World War two propaganda. You had a evil mustache

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toiling Japanese guy as the villain. Uh huh, I am

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that guy.

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Speaker 5: I'm observing of this much. Just the hero hit that

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by divine destiny, my country shall destroy the democratic forces

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of evil in the United States to make way for

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the new Order.

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Speaker 2: But Interestingly, this is the first time the concept of

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the bat Cave appeared really okay in the movie. Yes,

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in this it was a serial, you know, like cereals

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in the nineteen forties. This is forty three, So you've

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got You've got the Batman. He's got the bat Cave

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in this, which first time you see that, and also

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the concept of him going to it through the Grandfather clock,

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which is both of those things have just become iconic,

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but most people don't know about this old thing, or

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that they came about from a movie and not from

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the comic books. Originally interesting, it was also the first

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time you had a thin Alfred in the comics. He

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had been this little portly fat dude. Okay. And the

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guy who played Batman and that was named Lewis Wilson.

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He didn't appear in film again until nineteen forty nine.

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It was another sixteen episode serial, and this one was

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Batman and Robin Robert Lowry had played Batman. And in

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that one we had Jane Adams as Vicky Vale. Stop

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the brand who.

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Speaker 1: Sticky Vail, Sticky Vale.

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Speaker 2: I like that Vicky Vale.

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Speaker 4: The one thing I know about old time Vicky Vale. Yeah,

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I know she was a reporter, and I know she

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had red hair.

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Speaker 2: That's it. I don't think we could have sold Kim

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Bay Singer as a red head. No, but thankfully we

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got Nicole Kidman as doctor Chase Meridian a couple of

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pictures later. Well, I wish I could say that my

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interest in you was purely professional. Well as nice as

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she looks, she didn't save that film, true, right, Okay, So,

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so by the nineteen fifties, comic books had really increased

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in popularity and they had basically become the TikTok or

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the violent video games of the nineteen fifties. That's right.

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They had the parents and the psychologists and all of

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the adults of the time were saying, corrupting the minds

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of the youth. I know, right, this is the MTV

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of the nineteen forties. Well, and you've got Batman out

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market people, right, he had a machine gun on the Batmobile.

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So what happened is a crusade started against them, and

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ultimately what they did is they created their own governing

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morality board, and there were rules that were put in

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place to censor the comic books, to keep them from

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corrupting the minds of the youth. Okay, now we said

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a bit ago. You know, we've got this idea of

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Batman does not kill, right, I'm no executioner. Yes, now

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people have tread on that rule. You you idiot, You'll

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made me. And so the question is where the rule

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come from?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 2: It turns out that it probably came from this sensor board.

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Interest as a matter of fact, it's definitely came from

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this sensor board. What they said is superheroes cannot kill villains.

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They can fight the villains, the villains can die, but

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the villains cannot be murdered by the superhero. They have

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to die as a result of their own macanizations. So

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if say, the Joker falls off a gigantic cathedral, that's okay, Well,

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it depends.

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Speaker 4: But if Batman tastes grenade and sticks it in his

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pants like he does, and Batman returns, that would be wrong.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, Or if he throws a grapple hook around

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his ankle and then ties the other end to a

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two ton gargoyle, is that one bunt run a foul?

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I would say it probably would. Yeah, interesting, But I

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think that's key to the beauty of this character. If

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you have a Batman and the Kills, you just have

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a vigilating It is that one rule which we can

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talk about more, especially when we get to Dark Knight,

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that he does not kill. That makes his character more interesting. Okay,

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that is interesting because, like you said, in the Dark Knight,

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that is his rule. That is the rule he will

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not break. Right, that's the one rule I will not

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be an executioner. In Batman eighty nine, he doesn't have

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that rule. Doesn't seem too In fact, he goes to

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the joke and he's like, I'm gonna kill you, Yeah,

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right after he threw some guy down a gigantic bell shaft.

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The ninja who happened to appear at the top of

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the cathedral, the ninja who just happened to show up.

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But we can get into those all right, when we

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find flaws. Now, let me say this. Let me say this. Now, yes,

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we will discuss some flaws with these movies. But keep

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in mind, we are diehard fans, We are total fanboys.

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So please don't think that we don't love these movies.

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We just we have to point out the things that

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are not quite perfect. Okay, So comic books, finally they

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got rained in a a little bit. They're still escalating

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in popularity. And one of the guys who was a

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huge comic book collector, like filled his parents' garage with

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the comic books he bought was a guy named Michael Uselin.

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So back in nineteen sixty five they had the very

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first comic con I heard about. This.

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Speaker 4: This was in like a ghetto part of New York City,

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in the basement, like in this scummy hotel that actually

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burned down later.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think the original one was sixty four

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that was in New York and it was it was bad.

285
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That one was bad, but this one was also bad.

286
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This said, the one in sixty five is the one

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that became a recurring thing. Okay, And it wasn't in

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just in you know, some guy's basement or something, but

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it was the hotel in Detroit. And yes, there were

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bums asleep on the floor in the lobby. Yes. And

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then as they walked through to the convention area, they

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have to walk through the bar. And as they're walking

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through the bar, little Michael Uslan says, oh my gosh,

294
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that's Auto Binder, like he would go on he at

295
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the time he was doing Captain Marvel. He would go

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on to create Supergirl. He was a huge figure in

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comic books. And he's having you know, a whiskey sour

298
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up at the bar, and Kitty is exactly what he's

299
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come here kid. He goes and he says, do you

300
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want to meet the guy who created Batman? And Michael

301
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Luslan is like, I'm going to get to meet Bob Kane,

302
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and Auto Binder says, here, I'd like you to meet

303
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Bill Finger. Who is this? So this this comic con,

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this first one was the first time that Bill Finger

305
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had come out in public and talked about how big

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a factor he had been in the creation of Batman

307
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and all of the villains, which is huge. And I

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don't mean all, but I mean Joker, Catwoman, some some

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pretty big deals. Batmobile a lot of times got them.

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I think. Yeah, back in these days, they had ghost

311
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writers just like they do now. Sure, but this went

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beyond that. This was the guy who was truly creating

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all of the storylines, the brilliance behind all of the villains,

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and Bob Kane was drawing the pictures and he was

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along for the ride. And it wasn't as though he

316
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contributed nothing but the idea that the guy who was

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primarily responsible for the story ideas got no credit at all.

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It's truly troubled. Yeah, okay, so one year later, something

319
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happens nineteen sixty six. Yes, mister Adam West and Bert Ward.

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Speaker 4: And Julie Numar and Burgess Meredith, they create Batman sixty

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six the TV show.

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Speaker 2: Nona or the shark repellon. Oh the shark repellent. Oh yes,

323
00:18:02,559 --> 00:18:05,240
the spray can shark repellent. I had forgotten all about that.

324
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,799
That's fantastic. So Michael Luselan is at this point a

325
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slightly older kid, you know, he's in his teenage years,

326
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and he is both excited and mortified at what is

327
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going on because now the world knows about Batman, which

328
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is exciting to him because he loves Batman so much.

329
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The troubling part is he's a goofball. Yeah, he's pow

330
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and KaBlam and bob. Michael Luselan is like, this is

331
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not my Batman. Holy can't be spoofed Batman? Right, right?

332
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:42,240
So Batman the series definitely brings a lot of spotlight

333
00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:47,920
onto the Batman character, right Lunchbox's action figures. Adam West

334
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,680
becomes a star, Julie Nimara Think described him as the

335
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carry Grant of TV. I mean, he was just this

336
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,480
cool guy. And what Michael Luslan says when he sees

337
00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:01,960
this is I am going to make it my mission

338
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,400
in life to show people the real Batman, the Batman

339
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,400
of the dark, the Batman that is mysterious and troubled

340
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and torn and not capaw blam pow. I would say,

341
00:19:15,319 --> 00:19:20,240
like Bill Finger, Michael Uslin is the unsung hero of Batman. Lord.

342
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,960
I've given away the storyline here, but he is involved

343
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,720
in every Batman movie from the nineteen eighties on. I'm

344
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,200
surprised we haven't heard more about this guy. Okay, so

345
00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:33,200
if you watch the documentaries, he's always there. It doesn't

346
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matter which Batman Bee that he is there. And what's

347
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,039
interesting is he goes to college seventies, now goes to

348
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law school. And during this time, the University of Indiana says, hey,

349
00:19:45,079 --> 00:19:49,039
we are going to allow people to pitch us ideas

350
00:19:49,079 --> 00:19:52,720
for college courses that may be unusual and will decide

351
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,880
whether they get credit or not. Say, Michael Uslin is

352
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,480
like perfect, I'm going to teach a class on comic

353
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,839
books and their relationship to mythology and to history, and

354
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,279
he goes in to make his pitch and the Dean

355
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,079
looks down his nose at him and said, oh, you're

356
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,160
the funny books guy. Right, Yeah, he says, there's no

357
00:20:14,319 --> 00:20:18,039
way I am going to approve comic books. Don't get

358
00:20:18,079 --> 00:20:20,119
me wrong, I loved them. I read them when I

359
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,640
was a kid. Entertainment is what he called them, Yes,

360
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,559
just cheap entertainment. And so Michael Usland says, are you

361
00:20:28,599 --> 00:20:32,200
familiar with the story of Mosts? And the Dean says yes.

362
00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:34,359
He says, can you tell me the story of Mosts?

363
00:20:34,559 --> 00:20:38,839
And the Dean says, well, his parents were worried about him,

364
00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:40,920
afraid he was going to be killed, so they put

365
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,319
him in a basket see him down the river. He

366
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was ultimately picked up by the Royal family, raised as

367
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one of their own, but went on to be a

368
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hero of his own people. And then Michael Usland said,

369
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now you said that you read Superman, right, and the

370
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Dean says yes. He goes, can you tell me the

371
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story of Superman's origin? And then the Dean said, yeah,

372
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,039
his origin was he started off on Krypton as a baby.

373
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His parents were worried about him dying, and so they

374
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sent him off on a ship and he was raised

375
00:21:12,519 --> 00:21:17,279
by other parents. Mister Uslin, your course is approved. I

376
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,240
love that story. Man. Oh thank you, mister Dane. I

377
00:21:21,319 --> 00:21:23,880
will take it and run with it. Now here's something

378
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:28,319
that you don't know. Okay, so Uselin truly appreciating what

379
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,440
he had in his hands with this college course, right

380
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:38,839
one fame by anonymously calling local newspaper reporters and TV

381
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:44,640
stations and complaining about the course. Really, as a result

382
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,240
the news and the newspapers, the TV is like, oh,

383
00:21:48,279 --> 00:21:50,880
this is interesting. This is a somebody's teaching a college

384
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,920
course on comics and it's dumb. Let's go check it out.

385
00:21:54,519 --> 00:21:57,599
And they all showed up. There were newspaper articles that

386
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,200
came out, there were news stories that came out, and

387
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:06,119
he immediately became famous from teaching this class. That's fantastic.

388
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,920
I heard that. Stanley calls him out of the blue.

389
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 4: Hey, man, I just want to tell you thank you

390
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,759
for legitimizing comic books.

391
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

392
00:22:12,319 --> 00:22:14,599
Speaker 4: And then you had guy Saul Harrison, who is the

393
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,720
VP of DC. Yeah at the time, he invited him

394
00:22:17,759 --> 00:22:19,720
to come visit them in New York City.

395
00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:22,079
Speaker 2: Check it out. He taught this class for quite a

396
00:22:22,079 --> 00:22:25,039
few years actually, and he had intended to have these

397
00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:28,559
guys each semester have different guest speakers come in and speak.

398
00:22:28,839 --> 00:22:31,960
But he found out that Dannie O'Neil, the guy who

399
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,960
created Russell hal Goole is he was the one that

400
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,599
everybody always asked for, and so he's just like, okay, well,

401
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,440
I'm just going to make him the regular invitee. And

402
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,079
so Dannie O'Neill, who's a huge part of the Batman cannon,

403
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,079
became a regular speaker at this college classes class as well.

404
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 4: Razill goul is the bad guy in Batman begins if

405
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,720
you remember that, yeah, the Leem Neeson character exactly.

406
00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 2: Okay. So he ends up participating on talk shows and

407
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:01,440
radio shows, and ultimately this spins into a job for

408
00:23:01,519 --> 00:23:05,480
him as as a production attorney for United Artists, That's right.

409
00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:09,079
And so he meets somebody there who's got an inside deal.

410
00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:12,839
He pitches this idea of making the Batman movie but

411
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,440
making it in the Dark Night style. Now, Dark Knight

412
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,279
had been coined, but wasn't the comic book yet, And

413
00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:23,559
so on October third, my birthday, nineteen seventy nine, I

414
00:23:23,599 --> 00:23:27,599
was four years old. Hey, they got DC Comics to

415
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,240
option them the rights to Batman movie and Batman cartoons,

416
00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:37,960
and they formed Batfilm's Inc. On that day, nineteen seventy nine. Okay,

417
00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:41,240
let's talk about what was going on in nineteen seventy nine. Sure,

418
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,240
so I'm old enough to remember nineteen seventy nine. Yeah,

419
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,039
during the seventies and early eighties, super Friends was on

420
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:56,359
all the time. Yeah, did you watch super Friends? Absolutely

421
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,480
Wonders when Powers activate and all that stuff. I always

422
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,599
thought it was an injustice for the super twin who

423
00:24:01,599 --> 00:24:04,480
could only do form of water. What the other guy

424
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,680
gets the big any animal, when you have to be ice,

425
00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:11,240
water or vapor, that's it. I'm a tideaway, I'm a

426
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:29,640
bucket of water. But so, in nineteen seventy eight, Richard

427
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,920
Donner released Superman in the Movie, right, and of course

428
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,000
a couple of years prior to that, in nineteen seventy

429
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:36,920
seventy of Star Wars, Right. And so now you're having.

430
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,799
Speaker 4: These big blockbuster, sort of popcorn entertainment movies. But really

431
00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:45,240
the father of the Batman eighty nine movie is Superman

432
00:24:45,319 --> 00:24:46,200
nineteen seventy eight.

433
00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 2: We talked about, and please listeners go back and listen

434
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,559
to our Superman one and two versus Man of Steel.

435
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,519
We did that episode with John Reid from the thirty

436
00:24:55,599 --> 00:24:59,240
something Movie podcast. Also go subscribe to that podcast is

437
00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:03,079
flat out awesome. We talked about that history and detail

438
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,680
on Superman seventy eight happens and they say, oh wow,

439
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,519
it turns out that a comic book movie can make money, right,

440
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,000
which Warner Brothers also did Superman. They see this opportunity

441
00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:17,000
with these guys who are like, hey, we want to

442
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:20,079
do Batman next, and it's the next logical step. But

443
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,400
it was nineteen seventy nine, and we know Batman didn't

444
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:33,960
happen for another almost ten years. Batman, Batman, Can somebody

445
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,720
tell me what kind of a world we live in?

446
00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:40,759
We're a man dressed up as a bat it's all

447
00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:47,680
of my press. This town needs an enema. Yeah, so,

448
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,000
what the heck happened? I don't know exactly why that

449
00:25:50,039 --> 00:25:51,680
took so long, but I can tell you what happened

450
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:52,680
in that span. Yeah.

451
00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:56,039
Speaker 4: Imagine you're holding the Batman property right and you're watching

452
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,920
the box office. You're like, holy cow, Superman's out there.

453
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 2: It's making money. Love it. It's fantastic.

454
00:26:01,599 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 4: Superman two comes along in nineteen eighty one, people are like, hey,

455
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,559
this is great. It's a little bit corny, but it's fantastic.

456
00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 2: People love it.

457
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,559
Speaker 4: Nineteen eighty three comes along, Superman three comes out. Eh,

458
00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:15,400
that movie sucked. No, that movie sucked.

459
00:26:16,319 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 2: And then a bit of the Richard Pryor Show. But

460
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,839
it was the Richard Pryor Show. Yeah. And then in

461
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,759
nineteen eighty seven you have Superman four The Quest for Piece.

462
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,279
Now imagine you're holding the Batman property and you see

463
00:26:28,279 --> 00:26:30,720
that piece of crap that comes up on the screen.

464
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,640
The biggest tird that Superman ever shot is that turd

465
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,640
worse than Jos four. We will find out later on

466
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,680
this summer. That's gonna be fun when we do our

467
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,799
worst of the number four. We know that Batfilm's Inc.

468
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,359
Is formed October third, nineteen seventy nine. Yes, we know

469
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,880
that ten years go by before the Batman comes to

470
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,880
the movie theaters. So in addition to what happened with

471
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,400
Superman movies, some other interesting things happen. Okay, a guy

472
00:26:58,519 --> 00:27:01,400
named Frank Miller. This is a guy who at six

473
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,200
years old went to his mom and said, I want

474
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,799
to draw comics for the rest of my life. That's

475
00:27:06,839 --> 00:27:08,559
all I want to do. He had it as a

476
00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:11,000
mission from six. He knew he wanted to go to

477
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,279
New York City because that's where many of his comic

478
00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:17,039
book heroes were from. Ultimately, that's what he did. He

479
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,119
got a job as a comic artist and he was very,

480
00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:26,359
very good. But he, like Michael Uselin, wanted to go

481
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,559
back to that original concept of the Dark Knight detective

482
00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:35,839
mystery vigilante character, and so in nineteen eighty six he

483
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,000
released a series called The Dark Knight Returns. There are

484
00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:42,880
a few storylines that play into both of these movies.

485
00:27:43,039 --> 00:27:46,759
One is the Killing Joke, one is The Dark Knight Returns.

486
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,839
One is a Long Halloween, and then the other is

487
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,319
Batman Year one. That's right. I get a strong feeling

488
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,839
with the Batman that's coming out in March that we're

489
00:27:56,839 --> 00:27:59,400
going to get a lot of Batman Year one, Right,

490
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,400
sure and hopeful. I think you're right. You know what

491
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,559
else happened in nineteen eighty five other than Back in

492
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:07,599
the Future. Other than Back to the Future, same summer,

493
00:28:07,759 --> 00:28:14,839
you have this movie called Pee's Big Adventure that comes out, Yeah,

494
00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:18,920
directed by this guy named Tim Burton. Yeah, So here's

495
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,200
the story on that one right. Yeah. So the reason

496
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,400
they had taken so long to make Batman into a

497
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,279
movie is because they couldn't get a good script and

498
00:28:27,319 --> 00:28:30,000
they couldn't find a script that worked. They had been

499
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,480
talking about Bill Murray as Batman with Eddie Murphy as Robin,

500
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:37,359
and I've been rymen directing. Yeah, we would have had

501
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,799
a Richard Lester version of Batman. Had we probably had

502
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,880
either one of those guys direct, right, we would have

503
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,440
had Gremlins or Ghostbusters version of Batman. And that wouldn't

504
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,039
have been right. Let's say that again. I've been rightman.

505
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, Bill Murray as Batman, Eddie Murphy as Robin.

506
00:28:55,599 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: Hysterical, but not the Batman that we have. Not what

507
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,519
we want, No, not what we want.

508
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 4: I want to get into castile in here a little

509
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,119
bit because I've got a whole You know, when you

510
00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:04,880
have a movie that's developed for.

511
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: Over ten years, Yeah, there's gonna be a lot of

512
00:29:07,519 --> 00:29:10,079
names associated with it. Sure, some of them will blow

513
00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:12,160
your skirt up. Yeah, they're gonna blow your mind. So

514
00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:16,400
Warner Brothers was ready to shelf the project. They couldn't

515
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,359
get a script. They were going to put it on

516
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,720
the shelf and say we're not making this movie. Bob

517
00:29:20,799 --> 00:29:23,640
Kane got on his knees and prayed for a savior,

518
00:29:23,799 --> 00:29:27,839
and that savior's name was Tim Burton. Will they get

519
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,720
a load of me? So Tim had been working for Disney.

520
00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:34,279
He had made a couple of shorts, ones called Frank

521
00:29:34,359 --> 00:29:38,599
and Weeney. The other one is called Vincent's. Okay, both

522
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:39,960
movies I saw when I was a kid and I

523
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,039
will shorts I song was a kid and I love it.

524
00:29:42,079 --> 00:29:45,400
They're weird, very Tim Burton style. Sure, but he wasn't

525
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,680
anybody famous at this point, and so he had found

526
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,440
some favor with this lady named Bonnie Lee who worked

527
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,480
over Warner Brothers, and she convinced him to come over

528
00:29:54,680 --> 00:30:00,400
and join Warner Brothers. Well, another prodigy of Bonni Lee

529
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,599
is a guy named Sam Ham. Yeah, Sam Am And

530
00:30:03,759 --> 00:30:07,240
so Bonnie Lee is really I mean, she's the glue

531
00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:11,279
that brought these things together. And she said, Hey, Sam,

532
00:30:11,359 --> 00:30:13,720
could you come over to Tim's office. I would love

533
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,519
for you guys to talk about some stuff. And Sam's like, okay, yeah, sure,

534
00:30:17,559 --> 00:30:19,599
and so they go over. They shoot the breeze for

535
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,440
a while, and then Tim Burton's like, you know what

536
00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:24,319
about this batman? Script, What do you think we can

537
00:30:24,359 --> 00:30:26,920
do on that? And so sam Ham, you know, secretly,

538
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,880
is jumping for joy and it's like, oh, yeah, you know,

539
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,799
if you're interested in that, I guess I probably you know,

540
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,000
look at it, right, And he ends up developing a

541
00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:38,160
script which becomes basically the first two acts of Batman.

542
00:30:38,319 --> 00:30:40,480
Act three is something we need to talk about when

543
00:30:40,519 --> 00:30:44,720
we talk about Warren's Yeah. So Warren Scarrin comes in

544
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:46,880
later on as a writer and he touches up some

545
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,279
stuff that sam Ham has done. But Samam couldn't do

546
00:30:50,319 --> 00:30:52,400
anything at the time because there was a writer's skip

547
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,039
strike going on. He couldn't come in and make adjustments

548
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,759
during the movie, so they were kind of winging things

549
00:30:57,839 --> 00:31:01,440
a little bit. Listen, Jack Nicholson and he's carrying Kim

550
00:31:01,519 --> 00:31:04,480
Basinger up to the top of the cathedral, says, says,

551
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,319
where am I going? Like what am I doing here?

552
00:31:06,319 --> 00:31:09,480
And they're like, we're not sure what's going on just yet,

553
00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:11,960
but we're working on right, So here's the origin story

554
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,920
on this on that thing. Okay, the night before I'm

555
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,680
not even kidding. The night before, Tim Burton and Peter

556
00:31:19,799 --> 00:31:23,640
Guber go and watch Phantom of the Opera, and the

557
00:31:23,759 --> 00:31:26,759
last scene of Phantom of the Opera is him taking

558
00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:29,960
her up in this tower, and so they're like, we

559
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,039
should do that. Hey, great idea, let's do that. Oh

560
00:31:33,079 --> 00:31:35,720
my gosh, here's the other half of the rest of

561
00:31:35,759 --> 00:31:40,559
the story. Yes, Kim Basinger, who is currently banging John Peters,

562
00:31:40,599 --> 00:31:43,960
who's the other producer on Batman, right, says, well, wait

563
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,720
a minute, where's Vicky Vaiale. She needs to go up

564
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,200
in the tower. She wasn't supposed to go in the tower.

565
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,599
It was just supposed to be Batman chasing Joker. That's it.

566
00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:52,880
Oh my gosh.

567
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,519
Speaker 4: And so he's like, you know what, honey, I agree

568
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:57,240
with you since you're laying in bed next to me.

569
00:31:59,319 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

570
00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 4: Kim Bay, Singer, John Peters, Peter Guber, and Tim Burton

571
00:32:03,079 --> 00:32:06,359
got together and created the third act out of Underwear

572
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:06,960
and Chocolate.

573
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: So Underwear and So rewind just a little bit. Bonnie

574
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:21,279
Lee gets Tim Burton over. She introduces him to this

575
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:26,359
guy from the Groundlings named Paul Rubins, Yeah, who was

576
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,240
interested in making a movie based on this character. He

577
00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:32,079
had for a stand up routine called pee Wee Herman

578
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,279
making mister Hermann, Mister Herman, you have a telephone call

579
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,240
at the front desk, and I've seen that stand up

580
00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:43,240
routine and it is breaking hilarious. And when they meet

581
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:45,640
each other, they are two peas in a pot. And

582
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,319
then they decide, Hey, you know what, we need somebody

583
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,599
to write the music for this thing. And Paul Rubin says, Oh,

584
00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:54,519
I know this guy. His name's Danny Elfman. He plays

585
00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:56,680
with his band called Oengo Buindo. He might be a

586
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:57,039
good fit.

587
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,519
Speaker 4: You sent me a clip from the nineteen any six

588
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,319
Gong show. Yeah, where the Knights of Oingo Boying the

589
00:33:04,359 --> 00:33:06,359
Mystic Knights of Oingo Boingo.

590
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: Yes, we can talk more detail about that whenever we

591
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,039
get to our composers. But man, there's some fascinating how

592
00:33:12,279 --> 00:33:17,319
Danny Elfman came through all that is incredible. So before

593
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:21,319
Warner Brothers was completely ready to green light Tim to

594
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,759
direct the project, they needed to see that he could

595
00:33:23,799 --> 00:33:26,519
make a movie that would put money in the bank. Yep.

596
00:33:26,599 --> 00:33:29,319
So Tim does this other movie that you might have

597
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,160
heard of called Beeple Juice, People Juice, Wheele Juice. What

598
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,960
are your qualifications? Ah well, I intended tally are. I'm

599
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,440
a graduate the Harvard Business school. I travel quite extensively.

600
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:40,799
I lived through the Black Plague and I had a

601
00:33:40,799 --> 00:33:41,880
pretty good time during that.

602
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,039
Speaker 5: I've seen the ex Or systembout one hundred and sixty

603
00:33:44,079 --> 00:33:47,759
seven times, and I can't getting buddier every single time.

604
00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:50,359
Speaker 2: I said, not to mention the fact that you're talking

605
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:50,640
to it.

606
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: That guy, No what you'll think.

607
00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:55,039
Speaker 2: It's a fantastic movie. And that's where you get. I mean,

608
00:33:55,079 --> 00:33:57,599
Alec Baldwin and Geena Davis get their started it. Yep,

609
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,559
you get Catherine O'Hara, who goes on to do Home Alone.

610
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,680
The principal from Paris Bieler's Day Off is in it.

611
00:34:02,839 --> 00:34:05,240
How have you not, said Winona writer, I was waiting

612
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,680
on you to say I was young enough at that

613
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,000
point that it was okay for me to have a

614
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:09,559
total cushion.

615
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 4: Well, and Tim Burton uses her later in Edwards SUSA.

616
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,079
And then of course you have the amazing performance by

617
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:16,760
Michael Keaton.

618
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:23,199
Speaker 2: It's show Down. So you've got some pieces that are

619
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:25,840
starting to fall together. We've got a director who has

620
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,000
a vision, We've got a script that's got legs. We

621
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,719
just need good financing and a star's face. I've got

622
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,280
some great stuff on casting we'll come back to that

623
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,360
here after we go through the beginning and the origins

624
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,840
of the Dark Knights. Like I always say, if you

625
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,239
got to go, go Smike, go with a smile. So interestingly,

626
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:53,639
at this exact same time, nineteen eighty six, there's a

627
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:58,679
young man nineteen twenty comic book fan. He sends a

628
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,280
letter he sent actually quite a few letters that end

629
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,519
up getting published, about to blow your mind, right, Are

630
00:35:03,559 --> 00:35:06,559
you ready for this? Yes? Okay? So he sends a

631
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:10,639
letter to Marvel Captain America issue and says, let me

632
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:14,000
congratulate you. You got me reading Captain America again. He

633
00:35:14,119 --> 00:35:17,079
goes on to give some ideas. Now think about the

634
00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:18,880
movies when I say this, all right, just what the

635
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,639
letter says, the fact that Captain America is a symbol

636
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,440
of the American dream creates a number of story problems.

637
00:35:26,639 --> 00:35:29,960
What type of man would have the audacity to proclaim

638
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:33,239
himself a living symbol of America. So he's going to

639
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,320
this psychological weight right of Captain America, and he says,

640
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,639
what exactly does cap represent? Our government isn't nearly as

641
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,000
upfront or virtuous as the elected officials would have us believe.

642
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:52,000
Does the Captain unquestioningly accept whatever the current American policy is,

643
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,000
or does he formulate opinions of his own. I mean,

644
00:35:56,119 --> 00:36:01,599
that's the Avengers plot line in nineteen eighty six, thirty

645
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,159
years before the movie comes out. Who is this guy?

646
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,639
His name is David S. Goyer. Yeah, he would go

647
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:12,920
on just a year or two later to write some movies.

648
00:36:13,119 --> 00:36:15,880
The first one that got made was a terrible script,

649
00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:18,079
but he met a guy who was excited about it.

650
00:36:18,079 --> 00:36:21,360
He didn't speak very good English. His name was Jean

651
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,440
Claud ven Dam and the movie was about a prison first.

652
00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:27,559
I just I gotta tell you this story, all right, Okay.

653
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:31,920
So he's huge comic book fine, and he's also decides

654
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,880
he wants to be a writer, wants to be a screenwriter.

655
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,360
And he reads an article about this agent who is

656
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,760
had become an agent at like twenty two years old,

657
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:42,519
which is really young to become an agent. But he

658
00:36:42,559 --> 00:36:46,920
thinks this guy's got some moxie, he's got some drive,

659
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,840
he's hungry, right, yeah, I'm going to give him a call. Okay.

660
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,440
So he's in college and he calls this agent. He

661
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,599
gets a secretary and she's like, okay, I'll let him

662
00:36:54,599 --> 00:36:57,239
know you called he's like, okay, he knows he's not

663
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,599
going to call back, so he calls again the next day,

664
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:02,760
and the next day and the next day for forty

665
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,559
five days straight, and finally, on the forty fifth day,

666
00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:10,519
the agent picks up the phone and he's like, who

667
00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:13,039
them is this, and he's like, well, my name is

668
00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:15,400
David S. Koyer. He's like, I don't know why I

669
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:16,960
threw the S in there. I guess it just made

670
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,199
me think it sounded I sounded important that way, and

671
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,400
I want to be a writer. And the guy's like, listen,

672
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,519
send me your script. I'm probably not going to represent you,

673
00:37:26,599 --> 00:37:29,400
but send me your script and don't call here anymore.

674
00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:33,079
So he sends him the script and the agent calls

675
00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:36,599
him back. Nice, No, he doesn't. Two weeks go by

676
00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:40,639
and he's like, okay, I'm gonna start calling again. You

677
00:37:40,679 --> 00:37:44,079
ask for a buddy. So two weeks goes by, he

678
00:37:44,119 --> 00:37:46,679
calls again and the agent's like, you know what, the

679
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,599
script sucks, but I want to represent you anyway, because

680
00:37:51,079 --> 00:37:54,960
you've got drive, You've got something here that can become something.

681
00:37:55,199 --> 00:37:58,679
And pretty soon that agent introduces him to Jean Claude

682
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,599
ven dem who is a excited about the script that

683
00:38:01,639 --> 00:38:05,360
he has written where a cop infiltrates a prison and

684
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:07,559
the name has changed from dust In to a movie

685
00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:10,159
you might have heard of called Death Point came out

686
00:38:10,159 --> 00:38:13,079
in nineteen ninety. A few years later, about ten scripts in,

687
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,039
he writes a script based on a comic book and

688
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:20,280
it becomes Marvel's first movie, first real movie, Blade with

689
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,880
Wesley Snipes. You want to know what's crazy. They optioned

690
00:38:24,199 --> 00:38:27,760
Blade from Marvel for one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars.

691
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,079
Come on, man, I mean the franchise is probably probably

692
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:35,000
a multi hundreds of millions of dollars, if not a

693
00:38:35,039 --> 00:38:37,320
billion at this point from the three that came and

694
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,079
the second one they got for one hundred and seventy

695
00:38:39,119 --> 00:38:41,320
five just because it was part of the contract. They

696
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,880
didn't have any choice. It's about to be rebooted again.

697
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,960
But keep in mind, this is what started Marvel in

698
00:38:48,039 --> 00:38:51,079
the movies, right. It's amazing. Every Marvel thing you saw

699
00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:55,039
before this was TV like thor on the incredible Hule

700
00:38:55,199 --> 00:38:58,880
TV series. Right. Nothing good. By the way, there's a

701
00:38:59,039 --> 00:39:01,840
movie that never got made on the Fantastic Four. I

702
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,559
think we got to do a series on the Curse

703
00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:06,119
of the Fantastic Four because it's a great comic book

704
00:39:06,159 --> 00:39:08,639
series that has never produced a good movie. But Roger

705
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,599
Corman was supposed to do a Fantastic Four movie back

706
00:39:12,599 --> 00:39:16,039
in the early nineties. Jay Underwood is Johnny Storm and

707
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,119
it never came to see the light of day. But

708
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,880
they filmed the whole movie and there's a documentary on them.

709
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,880
We've got to do that thing. You watch it. Yeah,

710
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,400
we gotta find By the way, the paycheck that he

711
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,559
got for death warrant went out and bought an a

712
00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:35,400
Zuzu Trooper, which got stolen the same Well, I'm glad

713
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,119
to see that he did better for himself later on

714
00:39:37,159 --> 00:39:41,800
Den Round. So blade happens. He's doing well. And in

715
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,760
two thousand and two, a guy pitches a Batman reboot

716
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:51,119
to Warner Brothers. Guy's name Josh Whedon. Interesting, and Warner

717
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:56,360
Brothers said, nah, no thanks. So what happens is they

718
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,159
think it's a good idea to reboot Batman. This is

719
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,320
just the wrong script for it, and so they start

720
00:40:01,519 --> 00:40:04,480
sending out calls to directors they're interested in. Well, one

721
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,519
of the directors that they're interested in is a guy

722
00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:10,159
who has done two movies. One of them was fantastic

723
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,719
called Memento. Right. The other one was Insomnia, which is okay,

724
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,800
I didn't really care for it that much. Okay, but

725
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,039
he's done a couple of decent movies right, right, And

726
00:40:20,119 --> 00:40:22,679
he has been trying to make this movie based on

727
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,880
people going into the mind of others during their dream state,

728
00:40:27,039 --> 00:40:30,840
this idea for a movie called Inception. But the studios

729
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,480
that he's talking to, I'll say, this is absurdly expensive

730
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,280
if you are not qualified at this point to do it.

731
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,639
You know, see if you can make an action movie

732
00:40:39,639 --> 00:40:41,920
and then come back and see us. And this is

733
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,320
the same time that Warner Brothers is sending out calls

734
00:40:44,519 --> 00:40:48,360
and so this guy named Christopher Nolan's wife, Emma Thomas,

735
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,239
gets a message that says, hey, this is Warner Brothers.

736
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,480
We want to know if Chris might be interested in

737
00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:57,800
doing something with Batman. And she thinks, no way, Yeah,

738
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:02,400
he's a chance. He's a high yper intelligent independent filmmaker.

739
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,199
And have you seen the Batman movies lately? No way, right,

740
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,960
But she tells him anyway, and Christopher Nolan says, actually,

741
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,400
I think there's a story on the Batman that hasn't

742
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,639
been told yet. Now, are you familiar with Darren Aronsky.

743
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,320
He did Requiem for a Dream and Pie and the

744
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,280
Noah movie with Russell trow Right, right, Yes, I heard

745
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,000
he was attached at one point. Moving on, so, Christopher

746
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,079
Nolan says, I want to do a movie that truly

747
00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:35,360
tells the origin story of Batman. Everybody knows the kid

748
00:41:35,639 --> 00:41:38,679
with his parents outside the theater, they're murdered, et cetera,

749
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:44,719
et cetera. Right, you have mcdams with a bit of

750
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:50,800
by moon Light, but what happens in between there and

751
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,639
the Batman? The only thing we really see in the

752
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,519
comic books is he dedicates his life to making himself

753
00:41:57,639 --> 00:42:00,599
the best mentally and physically that he can't. But that's it.

754
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,440
Christopher Nolan says, I think there's a story that can

755
00:42:03,519 --> 00:42:06,039
be told there that is worth telling. But there are

756
00:42:06,039 --> 00:42:09,519
a few things that I need to establish. We're not

757
00:42:09,679 --> 00:42:11,719
doing the same stuff that the Batman have been doing

758
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,719
in the past. We are going to do a movie

759
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,280
that could really happen. It's based in reality, right, and

760
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,840
he admits, you know, this is cinematic reality, but we

761
00:42:23,039 --> 00:42:25,639
want to be as true to real life as we

762
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,800
can possibly be. Okay, So before we go any further.

763
00:42:29,039 --> 00:42:31,599
Speaker 4: For me, I wrote down some big ideas between these

764
00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:33,800
movies that I want to discuss, and one of the

765
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,519
big ideas about the Dark Knights series the end of

766
00:42:36,559 --> 00:42:43,079
the Christopher Nolan Batman series is the plausibility of these movies, right, okay,

767
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,000
So he went above and beyond, in my opinion, to

768
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:53,199
make sure that these things are, as you say, cinematic realism.

769
00:42:53,519 --> 00:42:57,559
Right In Batman begins, for instance, Christian Bale's character Verusuayne

770
00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:02,360
goes across and study and becomes this ninja guy. He

771
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,920
studies from Rozel Goal and he has these armor things

772
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,280
on his arm because he's fighting swords.

773
00:43:08,159 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 2: And so that that's why he has those armor plated

774
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,960
foe arm things. Sure, okay.

775
00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:17,599
Speaker 4: So with the talking about the plausibility, and the producers

776
00:43:17,679 --> 00:43:19,559
in the studio said, well, we really feel like it

777
00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:23,360
needs to have the Batmobile in some capacity. Just really

778
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,559
not a Batman movie without the Batmobile. So Christopher Nolan's like, okay,

779
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,239
you know, I think I can work with that. So

780
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,039
he goes to his production designer. His name is Nathan Crullley,

781
00:43:32,159 --> 00:43:33,840
and Nathan's like, okay, well, what do you what do

782
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:35,920
you have in mind? And Christopher Nollan's like, well, I

783
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,760
think it's going to be some sort of combination between

784
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:45,800
a Humbye and a nineteen seventies Lamborghini, and so he's like, okay,

785
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,800
And so he actually went to like Toys r us

786
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,400
or hobby Lobby and he got a model kit of

787
00:43:51,559 --> 00:43:55,000
both a Humby and a Lamborghini and made a hybrid

788
00:43:55,199 --> 00:44:00,199
in the like his living room, and that became the

789
00:44:00,639 --> 00:44:03,679
infamous tumbler from the Christopher Nolan movies.

790
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:08,039
Speaker 2: Yeah he's had it looked like crap, but ultimately it

791
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,559
led to the It led to that Batmobile, and it

792
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,880
led to what Christopher Nolan says was his first contribution

793
00:44:16,039 --> 00:44:19,400
to the script, which is does it come in black?

794
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,480
Oh yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah. So really interestingly, Bruce Wayne

795
00:44:24,599 --> 00:44:28,039
drives a Lamborghini and both Batman begins and in the

796
00:44:28,159 --> 00:44:34,800
Dark Night and it is a convertible Martial Lago, which

797
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,840
means bat you got it. I have given a name

798
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:43,639
to my Lamborghini, and it is the bats fantastic Okay.

799
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,519
So after David Goyer sold his script and God is

800
00:44:48,559 --> 00:44:51,639
a Zuzu Stolen, he decided, Hey, I'm a writer. Now

801
00:44:51,639 --> 00:44:54,000
I'm gonna have some business cards made up, and so

802
00:44:54,199 --> 00:44:57,920
he had business cards that just said David S. Goyer

803
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,679
writer and he's pretty proud of it. He takes him

804
00:45:00,679 --> 00:45:04,639
back to his screenwriting teacher, who's Nelson getting at usc

805
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,599
and says, look look what I've got, and Getting looks

806
00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:11,480
at this and he's like, throw this away. Why he goes,

807
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,639
you're not a writer, you are a human being who

808
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,039
writes for a living. Throw these away and go live

809
00:45:18,119 --> 00:45:21,079
life saving way quote. To write about life, you got

810
00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:24,000
to live it. And so David throws away his business

811
00:45:24,039 --> 00:45:27,679
cards and he starts traveling the world. Goes to Africa,

812
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,639
goes to Europe, and he also goes to Tibet. Okay,

813
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,840
he didn't know that later on Christopher Nolan would be

814
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,760
calling him up and saying, Hey, I've got this idea

815
00:45:38,039 --> 00:45:42,079
for Batman and how he becomes Batman, and I'm thinking

816
00:45:42,119 --> 00:45:44,400
that he needs to go through some sort of training

817
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,800
like in the Orient or Asia. And David says, you

818
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,039
know what, I just got back from Tibet, and I

819
00:45:50,119 --> 00:45:52,400
think I got a good idea how we can make

820
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,519
that work. I would say that his travel probably influenced

821
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,000
The Dark Knight on why he went to Hong Kong

822
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:02,360
as well. Exactly. So Christopher and David es Gooyer they

823
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,119
write this movie called Batman Begins, which is fantastic. I

824
00:46:06,199 --> 00:46:08,880
watched in preparation for what we're doing, but I can't

825
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,639
get distracted on it because what we're really here to

826
00:46:10,679 --> 00:46:18,079
talk about is the Dark Knight. Now, David had written

827
00:46:18,159 --> 00:46:23,159
some treatments for sequels to Batman Begins, and they had

828
00:46:23,559 --> 00:46:27,199
the Joker, and they had Harvey Dent, and in it,

829
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:31,320
as per the comic books, Harvey's scarring of his face

830
00:46:31,559 --> 00:46:35,039
happens because the Joker throws acid on him from the

831
00:46:35,119 --> 00:46:37,320
witness chair. That was what was going to happen in

832
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,480
the movie. Now we still have a similar scene, right,

833
00:46:39,559 --> 00:46:42,320
We've got Harvey Dent who gets a gun pointed at

834
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,199
him from a witness in a witness chair and takes

835
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:48,039
it away. But imagine the anticipation of all of your

836
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,320
comic book fanboys when he jumps up there like, oh,

837
00:46:52,639 --> 00:46:56,159
two faces about to happen now, and it doesn't. In

838
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,679
case you missed that scene, it does happen in Batman Forever.

839
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,639
Speaker 4: Tummy Lee Jones is the district attorney Harvey Dent and

840
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,559
gets acid thrown on his face while Batman is sitting

841
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,920
in court and the most ridiculous looking thing of all

842
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:10,239
the time.

843
00:47:10,599 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 2: Is this the Belcomer one? Yes, okay, so the last

844
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,480
one I watched before I watch Batman again. I'm just

845
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,239
I gotta be honest. I love Batman, but I could

846
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,480
not bring myself to watch the Colooney versions. You are

847
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,519
really selling yourself short, I'm telling you, uh huh. I

848
00:47:25,559 --> 00:47:29,599
don't believe you. But anyway, you do see that court

849
00:47:29,679 --> 00:47:33,000
room scene and Batman sitting there in his bat outfit

850
00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:35,800
in court. It looks so ridiculous. But we're not here

851
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:41,559
to talk about Mannett forever. Okay. So, so David Goyer

852
00:47:41,599 --> 00:47:44,880
has written these treatments, but really, when it comes to go,

853
00:47:45,039 --> 00:47:48,239
he's got a storyline that becomes The Dark Knight. But

854
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:53,800
Christopher Nolan's brother, Jonathan Nolan, is also a major factor

855
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,400
on writing the script for part two for The Dark

856
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,000
Knight that we're here to talk about to day. One

857
00:47:59,039 --> 00:48:01,239
of the things that you mentioned you kind of refer to.

858
00:48:01,559 --> 00:48:04,760
At the end of Batman begins, Gordon says, Hey, we're

859
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,079
having a little bit of a problem. We've got this

860
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,880
guy who's causing trouble, and he shows Batman a Joker

861
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,800
card in a ziploc bag, and when I saw that

862
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,599
in a theater, people gasped. People were like, oh my gosh,

863
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,719
that's incredible Joker. So there was a lot of anticipation

864
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,599
for the Dark Knight and the Joker character. I think

865
00:48:24,639 --> 00:48:26,800
a lot of people wanted him to bring back Jack Nicholson.

866
00:48:35,039 --> 00:48:38,719
That wouldn't have been necessarily a horrible choice, except then

867
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,639
we get what we get. Yeah, I want to know

868
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:43,079
how I got these scars.

869
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:53,519
Speaker 1: My father was a drinker and a fiend. That one

870
00:48:53,679 --> 00:48:58,599
night he goes off crazier than usual. Mommy gets the

871
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:04,679
kitchen knife and DEFENDERSLF. He doesn't like that, not one bit.

872
00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:11,480
So me watching he takes the knife to her, laughing

873
00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:16,079
while he doesn't. He turns to me and he said,

874
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:18,800
why so serious?

875
00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:26,079
Speaker 2: Okay, Jason, tell you a story about a young man

876
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:32,719
who loses two loved ones on the same day, is

877
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:39,039
totally distraught, leaves home, goes to learn how to be

878
00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:42,480
a fighter, to learn how to be a man, comes

879
00:49:42,599 --> 00:49:47,880
back and becomes an annenforcer of the law and becomes

880
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:48,880
a hero to the people.

881
00:49:49,559 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, Bruce Wayne, Teddy Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt Okay,

882
00:49:56,679 --> 00:49:59,800
So I don't just say that because I'm like grasping

883
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:00,599
his draws here.

884
00:50:01,039 --> 00:50:04,559
Speaker 2: Teddy Roosevelt was the guy that Christopher Nolan told everybody

885
00:50:04,599 --> 00:50:08,480
as they started, Batman begins, this is the biography you

886
00:50:08,599 --> 00:50:12,960
need to read, because this is our Bruce Wayne. See,

887
00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:15,760
that's interesting that you say that, because I have always

888
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:21,519
seen the Dark Knight Christopher Nolan Batman as George W. Bush.

889
00:50:22,039 --> 00:50:25,840
Oh wow, because and when we paint this picture for you, yeah,

890
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,880
go ahead, this is post nine to eleven. You have

891
00:50:28,159 --> 00:50:33,280
a very serious person about fighting terrorism and using whatever

892
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:38,320
means necessary to bring justice to those who are inflicting pain,

893
00:50:38,679 --> 00:50:41,000
and willing to bend a few rules to get the

894
00:50:41,159 --> 00:50:41,679
job done.

895
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,760
Speaker 4: And it just kind of fits that timeslot for me.

896
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,480
That's why I always thought it was George W. Bush

897
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,800
to tell me about Teddy Roosevelt. Well, so, Teddy Roosevelt,

898
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,920
it's not his mom and his dad. Well, it's his mom,

899
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,159
but not his dad. His dad actually died of cancer

900
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:56,199
when he was very young. He didn't tell anybody that

901
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,400
he had cancer. Just suddenly he's gone.

902
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 2: So he grows up, he gets married, He lives in

903
00:51:02,039 --> 00:51:05,199
the house with his mother and his new bride and

904
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:10,199
she is expecting a child, and his wife dies in childbirth,

905
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,639
and just within an hour or two later, his mother dies.

906
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,639
Both die on the same day he leaves. He leaves

907
00:51:16,679 --> 00:51:19,239
his newborn with nurses to take care of her, because

908
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,840
that's the way things went back in the late eighteen hundreds,

909
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,679
I guess. And he goes out and becomes a rough rind.

910
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,599
He goes out and lives on the plane and probably

911
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:34,280
is contemplating his own death much like Bruce Wayne is doing. Okay, right, Yeah,

912
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,559
get as dirty and nasty and hard as I can get.

913
00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:41,519
And then he comes back and he becomes a street

914
00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:44,840
out right, not a bicycle who ultimately becomes Commissioner of

915
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,039
the police, who ultimately becomes President of the United States

916
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:52,559
in credible Yeah and not know that story blow my

917
00:51:52,639 --> 00:51:57,159
mind all right now. For his inspiration for The Dark Night,

918
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:02,679
Christopher Nolan looked at the Joker in his debut in

919
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:06,719
nineteen forty the original Batman comic, right, was it April

920
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,159
of nineteen forty? I believe it just says the spring

921
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,320
issue of nineteen forty. Okay, so I think the month

922
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,639
before Robin had gotten introduced, and then the next month

923
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,639
Batman gets his own named comic book, and we get

924
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,320
introduced to the Joker and Catwoman.

925
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

926
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 2: Wooh, that's a big one. Wow. So there's that. When

927
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,719
he's looking at that, he's looking at the killing joke

928
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,519
from nineteen eighty eight, and as we discussed before, the

929
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:38,360
nineteen ninety six series The Long Halloween, which retold Harvey

930
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,000
Dentz origin. By the way, the Dark Knight nickname first

931
00:52:42,039 --> 00:52:45,480
applied to Batman in Batman Number one, nineteen forty story

932
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:49,559
by the Finger. All Right, so Christopher Nolan goes back

933
00:52:49,639 --> 00:52:53,920
to the guy who had done cinematography for him for Memento,

934
00:52:54,480 --> 00:53:00,360
guy named Wally Feister. Fantastic cinematographer. This was the first film,

935
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:06,639
mainstream feature that utilized Imax seventy milimeter cameras. That's incredible. There.

936
00:53:07,039 --> 00:53:10,280
I think they used four IX cameras. They were huge

937
00:53:10,519 --> 00:53:13,840
and heavy and bulky, seventy milimeter cameras.

938
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,119
Speaker 4: That's incredible. There were I think they used four IX cameras.

939
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,760
They were huge and heavy and bulky.

940
00:53:21,639 --> 00:53:27,079
Speaker 2: Five hundred million dollars apiece, no, sorry, five sorry, got

941
00:53:27,199 --> 00:53:31,440
my war drone five hundred thousand dollars a piece, yes,

942
00:53:31,679 --> 00:53:35,960
and one of them was destroyed during the Joker Bazooka

943
00:53:36,079 --> 00:53:38,920
scene under the street in that and another one was

944
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,960
destroyed in The Dark Knight Rises when Selena Kyle runs

945
00:53:44,039 --> 00:53:48,760
over it with the motorcycles. Basically a million dollars worth

946
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,960
of lost cameras in just a couple of accidents. But

947
00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:54,440
that's those cameras are why you get those incredible city

948
00:53:54,519 --> 00:54:00,519
scope scenes of Gotham, which is actually Chicago, but it's incredible. Yeah,

949
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:03,800
it gives you a much taller picture. And there's twenty

950
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,440
in the Dark Knight. There's twenty eight minutes of IMAX

951
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:11,000
footage and that includes the semi flip, which is awesome,

952
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,400
awesome and not cgi they flipped a freaking Simi And

953
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,880
how are you going to get a semi going vertical.

954
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,079
You got to have Imax. That's the aspect ratio that's

955
00:54:21,079 --> 00:54:22,800
going to give you something tall enough to get that.

956
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,480
And then the other is all of that opening scene

957
00:54:26,599 --> 00:54:29,639
with the bank robbery and the Joker. Yeah, it's fantastic,

958
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,400
so good, so clear and crisp man. I love it

959
00:54:33,639 --> 00:54:36,119
that opening scene, and I know will break down the movie,

960
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,559
but it's such a rush to start the movie with

961
00:54:38,679 --> 00:54:41,639
a bank robbery heist that could be its own movie. Yeah,

962
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,320
let me touch on that real quick. Okay, I just

963
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,159
want to say this now. So I recognize the mask,

964
00:54:46,199 --> 00:54:47,800
and it took me a while to figure out where

965
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,159
I had recognized it from. It's from a Stanley Cooper

966
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,719
movie called The Killing. The Guys. It's got the guy

967
00:54:55,519 --> 00:54:59,519
who's in He's also in Doctor Strangelove. He's the dirty

968
00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:02,880
cop and the Godfather. He's the main character in this one.

969
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:04,440
This is the one that I mentioned way back when

970
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,880
we were talking about Rodney Daingerfield and Cadashac. Rodney Dangerfield's

971
00:55:08,199 --> 00:55:10,519
first appearance in a movie is like as an extra

972
00:55:10,679 --> 00:55:13,239
at a bar in The Killing, which involves a bank

973
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,719
robbery gone wrong, where they wear clown mask and it's

974
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:22,280
this exact clown mask. But then watching something and they're like, oh,

975
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,679
this mask was inspired by the clown mask that Caesar

976
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,559
Romero wore in one of the Batman episodes where he's

977
00:55:28,639 --> 00:55:30,800
like doing the opera singer thing, and I'm like, wait

978
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,280
a minute, can't be both. Well, it is. It's that

979
00:55:34,519 --> 00:55:38,280
mask from The Killing, but painted with the face paint

980
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,000
like the one from Caesar Romera. Yes, Caesara Ramera is

981
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:48,000
a guy who played Joker in the Batman sixty sixth series. Yes, Hello, kiddies,

982
00:55:48,079 --> 00:55:52,639
gonna Meet the Joker, which our buddies Brad and Jeff

983
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:56,039
did an episode at the film by On the Killing

984
00:55:56,119 --> 00:55:57,960
by Stanley Kubrick. If you had an interest to check

985
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,360
that out, Yeah, definitely check out a film. That's where

986
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,800
I got my information about Rodney Dangefield, a film by

987
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,400
Dot Dot. Yep, great podcast. So I just want to

988
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,599
take a step back here, right, how many hundreds of

989
00:56:09,679 --> 00:56:12,880
millions of dollars Warner Brothers puts on the line to

990
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:17,440
make Batman begins? Right? With a guy who's directed two

991
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:20,840
movies if you don't count the cheap you know, I

992
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,960
filmed this with my buddies on the weekend thing that

993
00:56:23,039 --> 00:56:26,400
he did to first start out right, He's done two movies.

994
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:28,280
One of them is an Oscar movie, but it's not

995
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,360
a big budget movie. Sure, he's an indie filmmaker and

996
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,360
they're trusting him with the Batman franchise. Is that nuts?

997
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:37,960
That is nuts? It is nuts. You want to get nuts?

998
00:56:40,519 --> 00:56:44,960
You're exactly right, I mean, let's get nuts. I don't

999
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:45,800
really understand it.

1000
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 4: But in both of these series, they turned the Batman

1001
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:52,679
franchise over to Tim Burton, who had done Pee's Big

1002
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:56,719
Adventure in beel Juice to not exactly action movies, Nope,

1003
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,760
not comic goood not certainly not superhero movies. And then

1004
00:57:00,199 --> 00:57:05,119
for Nolan, who had done Memento and Insomnia, not superhero movies. No, right,

1005
00:57:05,199 --> 00:57:07,400
And they're their own money like crazy at these Yeah.

1006
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 2: And so you listen to the producers and they talk

1007
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:14,280
about how there just was never any doubt. It's like

1008
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,480
they got ninety percent finished with filming the movie and

1009
00:57:18,599 --> 00:57:21,039
suddenly somebody was like, what had happened if this had

1010
00:57:21,159 --> 00:57:24,000
worked out? And they're like, never even occurred to us. Gosh.

1011
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,519
And it's kind of the same thing with Tim Burton.

1012
00:57:26,519 --> 00:57:28,960
I mean, they had to guide him, but they really

1013
00:57:29,559 --> 00:57:33,800
let him create his own world. And it's because this

1014
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,519
is another quote from David es Gooyer, hire good people

1015
00:57:38,159 --> 00:57:40,920
and get them out of the way. Yeah, And that's

1016
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,159
what they did in these two circumstances. They trusted their director,

1017
00:57:44,519 --> 00:57:48,400
Tim Burton, they trusted their director Christopher Nolan, and what

1018
00:57:48,639 --> 00:57:52,400
resulted were five of the most profitable movies in history.

1019
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:56,559
It's really amazing when a studio lets artists work. Yeah,

1020
00:57:56,679 --> 00:57:59,400
and you and I have talked many times that movies

1021
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,280
are not as good as they used to be because

1022
00:58:02,679 --> 00:58:04,800
the studio gets in the way and they don't let

1023
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:09,119
artists work. The first four days of The Dark Knight

1024
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:13,400
like filming, they didn't film one shot. Did you hear this? No,

1025
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,960
first four days okay, they.

1026
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:20,079
Speaker 4: Screened two movies a day with the entire cast because

1027
00:58:20,119 --> 00:58:21,639
they wanted to get the tone right.

1028
00:58:22,199 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 2: Now. Imagine you're a Warner Brothers studio exact and you're like, wait, wait,

1029
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,440
we're not filming where everybody's just sitting around watching movies,

1030
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:31,599
and you call the director.

1031
00:58:31,639 --> 00:58:33,559
Speaker 4: He's like, well, yeah, it's important to get the tone right.

1032
00:58:33,679 --> 00:58:37,159
So here's what they watched, Heat nineteen ninety five, Cat

1033
00:58:37,239 --> 00:58:41,760
People nineteen forty two. They watched Citizen Kane nineteen forty one,

1034
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,800
King Kong nineteen thirty three, Batman Begins two thousand and five.

1035
00:58:47,519 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 2: Logically, yes, Black Sunday from nineteen seventy seven, A Clockwork

1036
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:56,400
Orange nineteen seventy one. Absolutely, and Still Logs seventeen, nineteen

1037
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,719
fifty three. Two movies a day get the tone right.

1038
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:05,840
Before that happened, Jonathan was writing the character of the

1039
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,079
Joker and Christopher Nolan does the same thing. He's like,

1040
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,599
here's the movie that you need to watch to understand

1041
00:59:13,119 --> 00:59:17,639
the Joker. The movie The Testament of Doctor Mabouse by

1042
00:59:17,719 --> 00:59:21,039
Fritz Lang that we talked about in our episode where

1043
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:25,519
he literally was about to be arrested because he put

1044
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:30,400
the words of Hitler in his psychotic villain in this movie.

1045
00:59:30,599 --> 00:59:33,519
So what does Christopher Nolan say, If you want to

1046
00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:38,159
know how to write a psychotic villain, go see that movie.

1047
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,400
And that's what Jonathan did. Fantastic.

1048
00:59:41,159 --> 00:59:43,239
Speaker 6: All right, everybody that is going to do it for

1049
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,519
part one of our Batman comparison, be sure to come

1050
00:59:47,599 --> 00:59:50,679
back next week when we talk about all sorts of

1051
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,480
more things Batman. Super exciting. Can't wait to jump into it.

1052
00:59:55,000 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 2: See that. We'll see you next week. One