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Speaker 1: no safe like SimpliSafe. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm
Speaker 1: Jon Favreau.
Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
Speaker 1: On today's show, we'll talk about the president's big announcement
Speaker 1: that he's renaming a lake because he's mad at Canada.
Speaker 1: His plan to make the midterms all about himself. RFK Jr.
Speaker 1: 's war against the war against measles. John Ossoff's opponent's
Speaker 1: latest Nazi problem. The latest one. And the latest from
Speaker 1: some key Senate races, including Dan's conversation with South Carolina's
Speaker 1: Democratic nominee, Dr. Annie Andrews, who's looking to pull off
Speaker 1: a big upset against the brand new Republican nominee, Darlene Graham,
Speaker 1: sister of the late Lindsey Graham. But first, if you're
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Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the news. Donald Trump had
Speaker 1: another big week of losing wars, raising prices, and changing maps.
Speaker 1: His only public event on Thursday was a signing ceremony
Speaker 1: in the Oval Office where he officially changed the name
Speaker 1: of Lake Ontario to Lake America and said that either
Speaker 1: the Atlantic or Pacific Ocean may be next because our
Speaker 1: president is a moron. Let's listen to how he explained
Speaker 1: the Lake Ontario change.
Speaker 3: So this is Lake Ontario in Canada and in the
Speaker 3: United States. But we're gonna make a little change. We're
Speaker 3: gonna call it something different than Lake Ontario. We're gonna
Speaker 3: call it Lake America. And all it takes is a
Speaker 3: good pen and some intelligence. So Lake Ontario, that's gone.
Speaker 3: Lake America. So now we have a lake. And now
Speaker 3: we have a Gulf because we have the Gulf of America.
Speaker 3: Now we have Lake America without the of. Thank you
Speaker 3: very much, everybody. Enjoy Lake America.
Speaker 1: Enjoy Lake America without the of.
Speaker 2: Without the of.
Speaker 1: Now, if you're all concerned that Trump isn't paying enough
Speaker 1: attention to the other stupid war he started that's now
Speaker 1: bankrupting the country, fear not. The president posted some great
Speaker 1: news about Iran this morning. Let's check out. What he
Speaker 1: put on Truth Social. That is an AI image, although
Speaker 1: Austin claims maybe it's photoshopped. Either one. But it's Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: the American flag behind him, some fighter jets. In the
Speaker 1: corner is George Bush, a picture of George Bush. And
Speaker 1: it says, mission not accomplished. And then in the other corner,
Speaker 1: there's the Ayatollah for some reason. And it says, mission
Speaker 1: accomplished 2026.
Speaker 2: Is that the dead Ayatollah or the other one?
Speaker 1: Who's to know?
Speaker 2: We don't know.
Speaker 1: Who's to know?
Speaker 2: We don't know.
Speaker 1: Is it the dead Ayatollah or the new potentially gay
Speaker 1: disfigured Ayatollah?
Speaker 2: Look, what you're going for in this moment is slightly
Speaker 2: better than George W. Bush's Iraq war. That's the message.
Speaker 1: And you definitely want to use the phrase because you
Speaker 1: really want– when people think about the Iran war, you
Speaker 1: want it to evoke the last biggest foreign policy disaster ever.
Speaker 1: from a Republican president, which is the war in Iraq.
Speaker 1: So you just want to make sure that the public
Speaker 1: is connecting those two things in their mind, even though
Speaker 1: the war is still very much raging because Donald Trump
Speaker 1: is a fucking moron who is busy changing the name
Speaker 1: of a Great Lake with a Sharpie and an executive order,
Speaker 1: as opposed to focusing on any of the other problems
Speaker 1: that we have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's doing great.
Speaker 1: What did you think about that, Dan? What do you
Speaker 1: think about the big Lake Ontario change? This is why
Speaker 1: we get paid the big bucks, to analyze the Lake
Speaker 1: Ontario change.
Speaker 2: It's a huge deal, John.
Speaker 1: That's a huge deal.
Speaker 2: The takeaway for me, I have two takeaways here, because
Speaker 2: that's my job is to have takeaways on dumb shit
Speaker 2: like this.
Speaker 1: Ten years running.
Speaker 2: Ten years running of hot takes on dumb shit. Great
Speaker 2: name for the pod. That was the runner-up to Pod
Speaker 2: Save America. Donald Trump is not even good at trolling anymore.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: Like it's just– like he is– I mean we've said
Speaker 2: this before. He's lost his fastball. But he's just– there's
Speaker 2: like this– you can almost feel the relevance just declining
Speaker 2: with every passing moment that people don't care. And he
Speaker 2: can't even– like he does this for outrage.
Speaker 1: He can't do it.
Speaker 2: The second thing is that Democrats in the world have
Speaker 2: kind of figured out how to react to Trump. Like
Speaker 2: when this happened with the Gulf of America or imagine
Speaker 2: if this happened four years ago, Everyone would be screaming
Speaker 2: from the rooftops, you know, what a gigantic deal this is.
Speaker 2: You know, what an embarrassment for America. How dare he
Speaker 2: politicize the once independent board of geographic names? And, you know,
Speaker 2: just like people would like– Stacking.
Speaker 1: It with cronies. Exactly.
Speaker 2: That was the foundation of the American system. Democracy is
Speaker 2: at risk. We can't even count on lake naming anymore. And,
Speaker 2: you know, and like last year, people were like, oh,
Speaker 2: my God, what do we do if we don't change–
Speaker 2: On our map, Trump will prosecute us. I mean, if
Speaker 2: you remember, this is what got the AP banned from
Speaker 2: the White House.
Speaker 1: Oh, my God. I did forget that.
Speaker 2: They refused to call it the Gulf of America. Now,
Speaker 2: no one cares.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: Although, it's kind of funny. I don't care about it
Speaker 1: that much. But I have seen some people be like,
Speaker 1: Do you think he actually knows that Lake Ontario was
Speaker 1: not named after the Canadian province or named by Canada,
Speaker 1: but it's an indigenous name from hundreds of years before?
Speaker 1: And I was like, guys, guys, of course, we don't
Speaker 1: need to go down that road. He wasn't thinking about that.
Speaker 1: And if you corrected him in advance, that wouldn't have
Speaker 1: made a difference. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2: I just think it's better to respond to these things
Speaker 2: with ridicule than outrage.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: I guess the other option is to actually him.
Speaker 1: Fucking moron. Fucking moron.
Speaker 2: It's so stupid.
Speaker 1: On a completely related note, Trump's approval rating is underwater
Speaker 1: by about 20 points with just 67 days until the midterms.
Speaker 1: For comparison, he was only about 11 and a half
Speaker 1: points underwater at this point. before the 2018 midterms, which
Speaker 1: is about the same as Joe Biden before the 2022 midterms.
Speaker 1: But according to The Atlantic, Trump recently met with his
Speaker 1: advisors in the Oval to come up with a strategy
Speaker 1: to overcome his dog shit approval ratings ahead of the midterms.
Speaker 1: And here it is.
Speaker 4: There's a theory that I get the vote. You know,
Speaker 4: I see it all the time that when Trump's on
Speaker 4: the ballot, they win. When he's out of the ballot,
Speaker 4: the people don't go to vote. And I'm asking the
Speaker 4: people through your brilliant show, number one show, I'm asking
Speaker 4: the people to get out and vote. Pretend I'm on
Speaker 4: the ballot.
Speaker 1: That's it. What do you think of that? That's a
Speaker 1: good strategy, right? Just in case you thought he was
Speaker 1: riffing there, here's the headline from the Atlantic piece I
Speaker 1: was just referring to about that meeting. Trump plans to
Speaker 1: buy midterm ads about his own record. The president has
Speaker 1: come up with a simple plan to win the election.
Speaker 1: More Trump.
Speaker 2: That is Trump's solution to every problem.
Speaker 1: More Trump.
Speaker 2: Is more Trump.
Speaker 1: Think that'll do it this time?
Speaker 2: Doesn't work when the problem is Trump.
Speaker 1: Trump.
Speaker 2: I mean, my simple response is, where can I donate?
Speaker 2: I couldn't ask for any.
Speaker 1: Great.
Speaker 2: Go for it.
Speaker 1: Run more. Run more ads.
Speaker 2: Make sure that everyone understands. that Mike Rogers, Susan Collins,
Speaker 2: John Husted, all these people are completely associated with Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: A man whose approval rating is underwater in every state
Speaker 2: in this country, there is no race, I think, anywhere
Speaker 2: where Trump is a net positive candidate. It's just a
Speaker 2: question of how big an anvil he's going to be
Speaker 2: for the Republican on the ballot.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, if everyone pretended that Trump was on the
Speaker 1: ballot and everyone voted based on how they view the
Speaker 1: job that Trump's doing, Democrats would win a Senate majority
Speaker 1: and a huge House majority.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 2: If every Trump disapprover voted for a Democrat, that would
Speaker 2: be a 20-point generic ballot, just to do some very
Speaker 2: fast math there.
Speaker 1: It's funny that there's one sentence in the Atlantic piece
Speaker 1: that says, Some GOP strategists favor focusing entirely on specific
Speaker 1: races in an effort to convince voters of the merits
Speaker 1: of individual candidates on local issues. Yeah, yeah, that might
Speaker 1: be a good idea. I guess that one didn't get
Speaker 1: through the brainstorm.
Speaker 2: You know, Biden, to his credit, I think in 2022,
Speaker 2: he basically just backed away. He didn't campaign. He sort of,
Speaker 2: his advisors, other than that one democracy speech he gave
Speaker 2: at the very end.
Speaker 1: Right, where they all basically looked like Satan, yeah.
Speaker 2: Which then sort of– basically the success of that speech
Speaker 2: sort of unwound democracy itself. But that's neither here nor there.
Speaker 2: But he had enough self-awareness to not force himself into
Speaker 2: the conversation. Same thing with Obama in 2010, George W.
Speaker 2: Bush in 2006. But Donald Trump is not capable of that.
Speaker 2: So he has to make it about himself, which is
Speaker 2: only going to help Democrats because it's not going to
Speaker 2: turn out more Republicans. It's just going to further polarize
Speaker 2: independents and disaffected Trump voters against Democrats. Republican candidates.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I laughed at the part of the story where
Speaker 1: his advisors told him that his bad polling is just
Speaker 1: because the public still just doesn't know about all of
Speaker 1: his accomplishments.
Speaker 2: Did it run more ads about them? Run ads? Look,
Speaker 2: I think what you got to do is you got
Speaker 2: to tell people about the big, beautiful bill. Not enough
Speaker 2: rich people know about the tax cuts they're getting, and
Speaker 2: you should run an ad about that.
Speaker 1: It's just so great. That's what it is.
Speaker 2: When I read that story, I was so happy.
Speaker 1: It's such a good story. I mean, I can't wait
Speaker 1: to start seeing these ads. What do you think these
Speaker 1: ads are going to be? Do you think that, like,
Speaker 1: this is what they tell them and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: the accomplishments and that it'll be like 10% accomplishments and
Speaker 1: 90% just, you know, we're running against a bunch of communists,
Speaker 1: Islamists and terrorists and, you know, we're going to destroy
Speaker 1: the country. Like, it feels like that would be their
Speaker 1: best use of money.
Speaker 2: I think what is likely going to happen here is.
Speaker 2: And I'll give an analogy here from my career. I
Speaker 2: once worked for a candidate who really, really believed that
Speaker 2: yard signs were incredibly important.
Speaker 1: That what signs?
Speaker 2: Yard signs.
Speaker 1: Oh, yard signs.
Speaker 2: Obsessed with yard signs. And so the field staff just
Speaker 2: put yard signs up in the candidate's neighborhood on the
Speaker 2: way to the office and on the way to the
Speaker 2: airport and didn't work anywhere else. So my suspicion here
Speaker 2: is that there are going to be a lot of
Speaker 2: ads about Trump's accomplishments on Fox News. National cable buy, Mr.
Speaker 1: President. Right in between the catheter ads.
Speaker 2: You can buy gold, a doomsday kit, a catheter, life insurance.
Speaker 1: And then find out about Trump's accomplishments.
Speaker 2: Find out about Trump.
Speaker 1: Which you can't find out anywhere else on Fox.
Speaker 2: Not on Fox News, no. There was no discussion of Trump.
Speaker 1: I do want to read you a quote from a
Speaker 1: big MAGA influencer on Twitter. Quote, I don't think the
Speaker 1: GOP fully grasp how badly they're fucking up right now.
Speaker 1: I'm very worried the GOP is sleepwalking toward a midterm
Speaker 1: reckoning they don't see coming. And this is a post
Speaker 1: that I saw because it went viral. And the reason
Speaker 1: it went viral is because it was reposted by Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: What do you think? You think he didn't quite know?
Speaker 1: Do you think he didn't read the post?
Speaker 2: No, I think he read the post.
Speaker 1: You think he just– he thinks it's the GOP. It's
Speaker 1: not me. I'm not at fault here.
Speaker 2: We are watching in real time as his brain tries
Speaker 2: to reconcile– an ass-whipping in the midterm with his own
Speaker 2: personal view that he's infallible. And so it's got to
Speaker 2: be someone's fault. He's going to start blaming the Republicans
Speaker 2: long before the votes are cast. They ran away from him.
Speaker 2: They didn't talk about the big, beautiful bill. They didn't
Speaker 2: talk about his accomplishments. No one talked about, you know,
Speaker 2: he's just going to be like, John Husted never ran
Speaker 2: on Lake America. Never talked about it.
Speaker 1: All this tells me is I just, I'm imagining how
Speaker 1: the 2028 Republican primary is going to go and the
Speaker 1: whole race. Because anytime there's bad polls for the Republican
Speaker 1: nominee or things like Donald Trump, he is just like
Speaker 1: you said, he's not going to be able to keep
Speaker 1: himself out of it. He's not going to be able
Speaker 1: and he's going to he will I guarantee he will
Speaker 1: end up like criticizing, if not indirectly, directly the Republican nominee,
Speaker 1: because that's just who he is.
Speaker 2: When I work for Al Gore towards the end of
Speaker 2: the campaign in my in my very, very low right
Speaker 2: out of college job for Al Gore. Bill Clinton. That
Speaker 2: was a big tension point this week. Bill Clinton. Al
Speaker 2: Gore was a problem for Al Gore, didn't campaign with him.
Speaker 2: Bill Clinton was very mad about this. Bill Clinton picked
Speaker 2: up the phone and called– can you remember the Washington
Speaker 2: Post and New York Times reporter to essentially– he couldn't
Speaker 2: take it anymore and complain about it and it became
Speaker 2: a gigantic story. And the problem for J.D. Vance, Marco Rubio,
Speaker 2: whoever else is that every reporter in America has Donald
Speaker 2: Trump's cell phone number. So the number of them who
Speaker 2: are going to get him on the phone when he's
Speaker 2: like on the toilet watching TV– whatever else where he's
Speaker 2: just going to unload.
Speaker 1: They're not going to need to get him on the phone.
Speaker 1: He's going to go into the oval every day, gather
Speaker 1: all the cameras and say whatever the fuck he wants
Speaker 1: to say.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And yeah, he won't shut like George W. Bush basically
Speaker 2: stopped being president. And as soon as the 2008 campaign started,
Speaker 2: I mean, in every way, he stopped being president, but
Speaker 2: he was, you never saw him again. He did like
Speaker 2: no events, did nothing. And because he knew that he
Speaker 2: was a gigantic net negative for the Republicans, Donald Trump
Speaker 2: will not have that level of self-awareness.
Speaker 1: You think he'll be on the trail all the time
Speaker 1: in the next couple months for the midterms?
Speaker 2: No, only because he's gotten quite lazy in his old age, maybe.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there will be some rallies, and they will
Speaker 2: probably be in– Texas is probably a place where I
Speaker 2: could see him going because Ken Paxton will want him
Speaker 2: in Texas because he's Ken Paxton.
Speaker 1: He's going tonight. We're recording this on Thursday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's going tonight.
Speaker 1: He'll be there tonight for a fundraiser, yeah.
Speaker 2: But is that a place where he'd do rallies? I mean,
Speaker 2: there would be an argument– that he you can understand
Speaker 2: an argument of like you have to turn out trump
Speaker 2: voters in these red states and maybe you know if
Speaker 2: you are um ashley hinson in iowa that you would
Speaker 2: want him to to jet up turn out in like
Speaker 2: the rural area so maybe he'll campaign which will be
Speaker 2: the thing is is that that is not limited to
Speaker 2: iowa so that's going to have an impact in maine
Speaker 2: in michigan and these districts in california in new york
Speaker 2: the democrats are trying to win so He will be
Speaker 2: present in the conversation, which is, I think, in the
Speaker 2: long run, great for Democrats.
Speaker 1: And again, if he's too lazy to take his fat
Speaker 1: ass out of the White House, he will be moseying
Speaker 1: on into the Oval every day and just holding court
Speaker 1: with all the reporters while the Republican candidates are out
Speaker 1: there trying to distance themselves from Trump or, you know,
Speaker 1: get their own message out there or whatever they are
Speaker 1: trying to do. They won't be able to do it
Speaker 1: because Donald Trump is going to be in the way.
Speaker 2: I mean, there are a lot of cities in American-named
Speaker 2: Ontario that he could start renaming right now.
Speaker 1: I mean, he previewed the Atlantic or Pacific name change
Speaker 1: that's coming. So we probably have that beat.
Speaker 2: Still hasn't dealt with New Mexico yet.
Speaker 1: That is just– it's sitting right there. Sitting right there.
Speaker 1: Just in time for it to be an early primary
Speaker 1: state for the Democrats.
Speaker 2: Oh, there goes John Ossoff and Kamala Harris and AOC
Speaker 2: to new America.
Speaker 1: Fortunately, Trump's pathological narcissism is the gift that keeps on
Speaker 1: giving for the Democratic Party because in just a few
Speaker 1: weeks– He's also going to make every Republican candidate on
Speaker 1: the ballot endure a first-of-its-kind two-night midterm convention in Dallas.
Speaker 1: This is on September 9th and 10th. By the way,
Speaker 1: did you see it's going to be the opening NFL
Speaker 1: game on the 9th? The Pats and the Seahawks. And
Speaker 1: then the 10th is the second game. So that's two
Speaker 1: NFL games, primetime. Donald Trump's convention will be happening at
Speaker 1: the same time.
Speaker 2: Is the second one on Netflix?
Speaker 1: Yes, because it's in Australia. Yeah.
Speaker 2: This was a noble thing. It's very well known when
Speaker 2: the NFL season starts that they've been selling tickets to
Speaker 2: those games for a very long time. You didn't have
Speaker 2: to do it that week. Nope. You could have done
Speaker 2: it Tuesday and Wednesday.
Speaker 1: Could have done it Tuesday and Wednesday. Could have done
Speaker 1: it the following week.
Speaker 2: In fact, every Thursday for the next 18 weeks after that,
Speaker 2: they're out. You can't do that. Thursdays and Mondays, not
Speaker 2: a good time to do primetime addresses during football season.
Speaker 1: Here are some details on how the RNC chair is
Speaker 1: feeling about this. Listen, it's going to be a trombopalooza.
Speaker 5: It's going to be spectacular, star-studded event, obviously headlined by
Speaker 5: the best showman that's ever lived in Donald J.
Speaker 2: Trump.
Speaker 5: An RNC official tells us a primetime showcase for President
Speaker 5: Trump's success, candidates, and causes that have propelled the 2026
Speaker 5: midterms to unprecedented focus. There is also going to be
Speaker 5: a commemoration of the 25th anniversary of 9-11 and a
Speaker 5: section about Charlie Kirk's legacy mobilizing young voters for Republicans.
Speaker 1: Wow. Just wow. Did you know that that was the Republican,
Speaker 1: the chairman of the RNC?
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting because I did not know who
Speaker 2: he was or what he looked like. And then I
Speaker 2: watched a separate interview with that guy today from it
Speaker 2: on CBS, where he says the exact same words, Trumpapalooza,
Speaker 2: greatest showman on earth. So it wasn't like a one-off,
Speaker 2: we're just on Newsmax thing. this is the message is trombopalooza.
Speaker 1: Tommy and i talked about him yesterday check out our
Speaker 1: our youtube for extra content subscribe um and after talking
Speaker 1: about him yesterday i still don't remember what his name.
Speaker 2: Is yeah gruters we have like it literally was on
Speaker 2: the screen one second ago and really a forgettable face who.
Speaker 1: Cares who cares what would you guess is the thinking
Speaker 1: behind uh this this boondoggle Just more of like what
Speaker 1: we got in that Atlantic story that Trump was just like,
Speaker 1: got to make this about me.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's certainly a part of it. I think
Speaker 2: this was his idea. He came up with it. He's
Speaker 2: made that clear to everyone. I think if you think
Speaker 2: back to Milwaukee Republican convention, you know how most candidates
Speaker 2: campaign throughout the convention, then they arrive at the convention
Speaker 2: the day of their speech and they make their grand entrance.
Speaker 2: Maybe they come to get there the night before and
Speaker 2: do the, they accept the nomination. Then they do their speech.
Speaker 2: If you remember, Trump went, Every single day. It was
Speaker 2: Milwaukee the whole time. He sat in a box the
Speaker 2: whole time.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: And while in that box, when he wasn't sleeping, he
Speaker 2: just sat there with a shit-eating grin on his face
Speaker 2: and watched people praise him. I think that was probably
Speaker 2: one of the greatest moments of his life. And I
Speaker 2: think he's trying to replicate that. I really do think
Speaker 2: he wants people to say, he wants to create a
Speaker 2: forum where people say nice things to him, to his face.
Speaker 1: Just so we don't get too excited here, I was
Speaker 1: trying to think, is there any world in which this
Speaker 1: convention turns out to be A net positive for Republicans,
Speaker 1: you know, will be two nights of primetime of just
Speaker 1: them trashing every Democratic candidate and just dumping out the
Speaker 1: oppo file on all of them.
Speaker 2: Who do you think is going to cover it?
Speaker 1: Just the cables. Yeah, I think I think MS I
Speaker 1: would bet that MS and CNN cover Trump's speech and
Speaker 1: Vance's speech. But I can't imagine they're going to cover
Speaker 1: much more than that. Fox, you know, the whole the
Speaker 1: whole thing.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they'll use it. They'll have reporters there and
Speaker 2: they'll use it as content during the day. I don't
Speaker 2: think that content will necessarily be good for Republicans, but
Speaker 2: I don't think these speeches are going to get covered
Speaker 2: and seen by a lot of people other than Fox viewers.
Speaker 1: Republican strategists are saying that it's turned into a, quote,
Speaker 1: shit show. This was to Puck. And do you know
Speaker 1: the National Republican Campaign Committee is asking House members to
Speaker 1: cough up $ 25, 000 for themselves and a guest to attend
Speaker 1: the convention? And that's the cheaper rate. The top rate
Speaker 1: is $ 100, 000.
Speaker 2: It's a con, right? It's just like another way to
Speaker 2: make money.
Speaker 1: Un-fucking-believable. It's amazing.
Speaker 2: Make it four days.
Speaker 1: The Republican strategist added to Puck, nobody understands why we're
Speaker 1: doing a midterm convention. It's just another show that Trump
Speaker 1: is going to put on to remind the voters that
Speaker 1: he is sitting there. And maybe they don't want to
Speaker 1: be reminded of that. Ouch.
Speaker 2: Perfect.
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Republican strategist. So, so good. Of course, anonymous,
Speaker 1: of course. Don't want to upset Mr. Trump.
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Speaker 1: your essentials today. TommyJohn.com slash CROOKED. So there's also been
Speaker 1: a bunch of action this week on the president's attempts
Speaker 1: to limit mail-in voting. Reminder that back in March— Mail-in
Speaker 1: voter Donald Trump signed an order that directs the U.S.
Speaker 1: Postal Service to only send mail ballots to people on
Speaker 1: an approved list of citizens compiled by the federal government
Speaker 1: in collaboration with information provided by each state. It would
Speaker 1: also empower the Postal Service to just not send mail
Speaker 1: ballots to states that don't comply with all the new rules.
Speaker 1: Blue states have sued over the EO, but on Monday,
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court ruled they don't have standing to do so,
Speaker 1: at least not yet. And so now the whole thing
Speaker 1: is in legal limbo as the rule finally goes into effect.
Speaker 1: And now blue states are suing again. And so, of course,
Speaker 1: this is exactly where you want to be when the
Speaker 1: on the first round of mail ballots are supposed to
Speaker 1: be sent out next week. Can you fill people in
Speaker 1: on how how bad this is? What happens now with
Speaker 1: all these different court cases?
Speaker 2: This is very confusing. And I think a lot of
Speaker 2: the stories and the initial reaction were wrong. sort of
Speaker 2: misleading or incorrect. There are two court cases, one from
Speaker 2: the blue States and one from the league of women voters.
Speaker 2: Both those cases are in front of the same judge
Speaker 2: and the judge put temporary restraining orders in place for
Speaker 2: both of them to prevent or injunctions to prevent the
Speaker 2: administration from going forward with this plan. The Supreme court
Speaker 2: ruled in only one of those cases, the one from the,
Speaker 2: that that one is something versus Trump. It's there's something
Speaker 2: versus California. It's the blue state case, but the, the
Speaker 2: injunction in the legal and voter's case is still in place.
Speaker 2: And the order continues to say, and even the Postal
Speaker 2: Service put out the rule for how they would implement
Speaker 2: this plan on last Friday night, even that rule stipulates
Speaker 2: that that cannot go in place until the other injunction
Speaker 2: is lifted. So we're kind of in the same place
Speaker 2: where we were before. The alarming part is the Supreme
Speaker 2: Court felt the need to intervene here and to, once again,
Speaker 2: sort of really twist the as I read it, the
Speaker 2: irreparable harm standard in a way to try to pave
Speaker 2: the way for Trump. But it has not– we are
Speaker 2: where we were before not a lot has changed. There's
Speaker 2: a couple of questions here. One is how the hell
Speaker 2: would the Postal Service actually implement this plan? Like who
Speaker 2: is going to be checking these mail ballots against these databases?
Speaker 2: How do we know the databases are correct? What happens
Speaker 2: when states do not submit the databases? Like most blue
Speaker 2: states will not submit these rolls and there obviously will
Speaker 2: be a long court case around that. It's a question
Speaker 2: about how this could possibly be implemented in time for
Speaker 2: this election, even if the Supreme Court were to green
Speaker 2: light it in the very near future.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because obviously Trump has said he doesn't like
Speaker 1: mail-in voting and he wants to stop mail-in voting and
Speaker 1: he has signed other EOs to this effect that have been.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question on this, John?
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 2: He's a resident of Florida, correct?
Speaker 1: That's right. He's mail-in voter Donald Trump. That's why I
Speaker 1: call him that.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: Voter don't do that.
Speaker 1: Because hypocrisy is important to people.
Speaker 8: We got him.
Speaker 1: It's over. We did get him. So his argument is like, no,
Speaker 1: I should be in control of mail-in voting and I
Speaker 1: should stop it and I should be able to do that.
Speaker 1: The DOJ, their arguments here are very much not, oh,
Speaker 1: the federal government should have a say in how we
Speaker 1: control elections and run elections because they know that is–
Speaker 1: explicitly forbidden in the constitution. So their argument in court
Speaker 1: about this is, well, the federal government's not doing anything
Speaker 1: to interfere with how the states are administering their elections.
Speaker 1: And if the states want to send mail ballots to
Speaker 1: anyone they want, they can do that. But if they
Speaker 1: want to use the postal service, if they want to
Speaker 1: use the postal service for this, then they have to
Speaker 1: have our new special logo on the envelopes and they
Speaker 1: have to have the barcode That allows us to see
Speaker 1: if they have given us the information and the lists
Speaker 1: are right and the citizenship lists, which are coming from DHS,
Speaker 1: which definitely can trust that. So, yeah, that is the argument.
Speaker 1: The argument they're trying to make is this just like
Speaker 1: a minor cosmetic thing for the design of the ballots.
Speaker 2: Like you can do whatever you want. You just have
Speaker 2: to use the Postal Service. You know what I say?
Speaker 2: Huge business opportunity for Amazon.
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos to the rescue. That's right.
Speaker 2: Get your ballot there in two days, free shipping.
Speaker 1: I do find it hard to believe that even the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court would throw this coming election into complete chaos.
Speaker 2: With like– Well, we said that about the Calais decision
Speaker 2: as well and they did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but this is– I mean it's not– we don't
Speaker 1: have to talk about the merits of the decision as worse.
Speaker 1: But it is– it causes more chaos. Like the Calais
Speaker 1: decision is horrible but it is done. And this is
Speaker 1: like next week, the mail ballots are going out. So
Speaker 1: for at least in some states. So like, I think
Speaker 1: it's North Carolina. So like, what's going to happen?
Speaker 2: It seems logistically impossible.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Now, they can allow it to happen. And Trump doesn't
Speaker 2: care if no mail ballots go. I don't want to
Speaker 2: tell him about the Republican Democratic breakdown of mail balloting
Speaker 2: in Florida. All of a sudden, Florida, lean D, if
Speaker 2: you stop delivering the mail there.
Speaker 1: No, the most Supreme Court thing to do would be like,
Speaker 1: You know, the worst parts of it don't take effect
Speaker 1: for the midterms. All of it takes effect afterwards. And
Speaker 1: then ahead of the midterms, the DHS gets to compile
Speaker 1: their own list if they want, because that's the purview
Speaker 1: of the federal government, something like that. But we shall see.
Speaker 1: So if Trump has his way, mail-in ballots will be dead,
Speaker 1: but measles, very much alive. Cases have reached a 35-year high,
Speaker 1: as U.S. kindergarten vaccination rates have reached a record low.
Speaker 1: all since the president put a vaccine skeptic without a
Speaker 1: medical degree in charge of America's public health. Just a
Speaker 1: reminder that two weeks ago, the president signed an executive
Speaker 1: order directing people to get the MMR vaccine, which protects
Speaker 1: against measles, mumps, and rubella, as three different shots, even
Speaker 1: though that option currently isn't available to patients. And then
Speaker 1: this week, Pennsylvania tragically announced that two unvaccinated people had
Speaker 1: died from the illness. Governor Josh Shapiro blamed the deaths
Speaker 1: on the administration, which did not sit well with RFK Jr.,
Speaker 1: who blamed the outbreak and the documented drop in vaccination
Speaker 1: rates on a familiar foe.
Speaker 9: We're doing a better job than any country in the
Speaker 9: world at controlling the measles outbreak. This is a worldwide epidemic,
Speaker 9: and it's happening because of the lockdowns, because many kids
Speaker 9: did not get vaccinated during the lockdowns. Then you had
Speaker 9: a dramatic diminishment of public faith in the regulatory agencies
Speaker 9: during the COVID period because of government overreaching, because of
Speaker 9: the gaslighting and the manipulation. So even in my discussion
Speaker 9: with Governor Shapiro yesterday, and he said to me, well,
Speaker 9: we've seen this big drop in vaccination rates in the
Speaker 9: state from 97 to 92.3. He admitted on the phone
Speaker 9: that it all happened during the Biden administration.
Speaker 1: Let's see. Let's see. What could have caused the public
Speaker 1: to lose faith in vaccinations during the Biden years? Could
Speaker 1: it have been some people, perhaps people that ended up
Speaker 1: becoming the Secretary of Health and Human Services, constantly spreading
Speaker 1: anti-vax propaganda that was incorrect? Possible. Possibly. Let's be fair.
Speaker 1: It might have just been the lockdowns. It might have
Speaker 1: been the lockdowns and Fauci. And the lab leak. You
Speaker 1: don't have to explain why. Just say that.
Speaker 2: Just say Wuhan.
Speaker 1: Wuhan. Yeah. Wuhan. Fauci. That's why. So Kennedy was also
Speaker 1: interrupted during a different anti-vax screed this week by the
Speaker 1: most on-the-nose ringtone you could possibly imagine.
Speaker 9: We have a responsibility to do better on an autistic.
Speaker 1: Sorry about that. It's quack. It's quack, Dan.
Speaker 2: This would be like if Pete Hegg's Sass of Ringtone
Speaker 2: was a beer can opening.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 1: So Reed Cherlin, our fearless editor-in-chief and author of Open Tabs, subscribe,
Speaker 1: become a friend of the pod to get that, crooked.com
Speaker 1: slash friends. And Reed said, wrote in Open Tabs on
Speaker 1: Thursday morning that we would, that you and I would
Speaker 1: not agree to discuss this story on the show. So
Speaker 1: eat shit, Reid. Because here we are.
Speaker 2: You know what? Dick move by Reid.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It's like, let me just put out there that I
Speaker 2: am going to, as the noble journalist that I am,
Speaker 2: propose we talk about this very serious health thing. And
Speaker 2: I'm sure these political hacks that I'm forced to work
Speaker 2: with will reject it. And so like, what are we
Speaker 2: supposed to do now? Like, we have to do it.
Speaker 2: Do I want to do it? I don't really know.
Speaker 2: But I have to because Reid did that.
Speaker 1: It's like when Barack Obama wanted to give like lengthy
Speaker 1: policy addresses and get into the weeds and be like,
Speaker 1: I would be able to do this, but Axelrod told
Speaker 1: me I couldn't.
Speaker 2: Well, that'd be like if he said it publicly first.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 2: He's like, I wanted to give this very important speech,
Speaker 2: but my political advisors will probably say no.
Speaker 1: Anyway, here we are brightening your day by talking about
Speaker 1: the measles outbreak. What did you think of the back
Speaker 1: and forth between RFK Jr. and Shapiro? And why has
Speaker 1: this whole issue gotten even more attention? It's just because
Speaker 1: what do we all do about it?
Speaker 2: I think RFK Jr. is a terribly, terribly dangerous and
Speaker 2: particularly dumb human being. And he sounds ridiculous in his
Speaker 2: explanation of this. And he spent so much of his
Speaker 2: time trying to explain why he, America's most famous vaccine skeptic,
Speaker 2: has no responsibility for a drop in vaccines. It has
Speaker 2: led to the greatest spread of measles in the last
Speaker 2: 35 years, I think it is. I mean, this is,
Speaker 2: you know, like he has responsibility here. You know, This
Speaker 2: should be a gigantic national scandal. I don't know that
Speaker 2: we have the media infrastructure or the mental capacity as
Speaker 2: a country to have national scandals the way we used to.
Speaker 2: In the old world, people would be in the Oval
Speaker 2: Office every day being like, Mr. President, explain the measles.
Speaker 2: And every member of Congress would talk about it. It
Speaker 2: would lead all the local news. We still have local
Speaker 2: news about the measles cases there. It just doesn't work
Speaker 2: that way anymore, which is probably not good for democracy
Speaker 2: in some respects. But I do think people know about this.
Speaker 2: This is a thing that I'm sure you hear about
Speaker 2: as a parent with other parents. There's real concern about it.
Speaker 2: I remember when– this was maybe a year or so ago,
Speaker 2: I guess, when Jack, who was then I think about
Speaker 2: to be five, was– because you get your MMR in
Speaker 2: two doses. And whether you– the big discussion about whether
Speaker 2: you should– whether you could like put forward or push
Speaker 2: forward the second dose. Cause you're a fear that you
Speaker 2: could get measles in this world. Like, so I think
Speaker 2: people are talking about it, but there is this sort
Speaker 2: of weird world where like no one holds Trump responsible
Speaker 2: for any of this stuff. So it was just like
Speaker 2: happening on his watch while he renames lakes.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think it's, um, it's politically damaging
Speaker 1: and widely known too, because you're right. Like anyone, if you,
Speaker 1: anyone who goes to the pediatrician with kids that age,
Speaker 1: like I'm, I'm, I heard it at my pediatric, like,
Speaker 1: you're going to hear about it and be like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: They did the thing about MMR, but we're still recommending
Speaker 1: because we are doctors who understand science that you should
Speaker 1: get your MMR vaccine in two doses and not three
Speaker 1: separate vaccines that don't exist currently. But like, you know,
Speaker 1: the damage is also being done like slowly over time, right?
Speaker 1: Which is just sort of degrading the public's trust in
Speaker 1: public health. And look, some of it, some of it
Speaker 1: did start, I think it's hard to have a public
Speaker 1: health debate and a conversation too since COVID and all
Speaker 1: the polarization around that as well. And so now that
Speaker 1: has like, as people thought at the time, the polarization
Speaker 1: over COVID and the COVID vaccines has now transferred to
Speaker 1: measles and will continue to spread to other things. And
Speaker 1: so it's going to take a long time in more
Speaker 1: than just the change in an administration to actually like
Speaker 1: rebuild people's faith in public health, which.
Speaker 2: Is, I think this is the Kaiser Family Foundation poll,
Speaker 2: but trust in federal officials' recommendations, I think specifically vaccine recommendations,
Speaker 2: has been cut in half in recent years because you
Speaker 2: have Republicans who have been polarized against these institutions during
Speaker 2: the Biden administration. And frankly, honestly, the first Trump administration.
Speaker 2: And then you have a bunch of Democrats very skeptical
Speaker 2: of RFK Jr. I talked a little bit about this
Speaker 2: with Annie Andrews in the interview a year later, who's
Speaker 2: a pediatrician and has some smart thoughts about what we
Speaker 2: can do about it.
Speaker 1: There was a long New Yorker piece this week. Basically,
Speaker 1: the argument was that RFK might actually be losing the
Speaker 1: war on vaccines. You think there's a case for optimism?
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's optimism, but I think it's
Speaker 2: possible that he's not winning the war at the same
Speaker 2: rate we feared when he started. That a lot of
Speaker 2: the institutions are still holding, that people are turning to
Speaker 2: these independent scientific boards to get their recommendations. They're still
Speaker 2: trusting their doctor's Over, you know, quacks, no pun intended,
Speaker 2: like RFK Jr. So I don't know. It's hard to
Speaker 2: be optimistic given what has happened with Music in this
Speaker 2: Country right now. But it's possible that it's not as
Speaker 2: bad as we think it is or we thought it
Speaker 2: would be when it started.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought that it was interesting that the piece
Speaker 1: makes the case that, you know, the Maha support, especially
Speaker 1: at this point, is– it's loud but it's like thinner
Speaker 1: than it seems.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And public trust in doctors, right, if not public health officials,
Speaker 1: is still quite high. And so even though that some
Speaker 1: of this faith, this trust has been degraded over time,
Speaker 1: it is still, you know, it's not quite as bad
Speaker 1: yet as it might appear.
Speaker 2: I think the other, if you're looking for silver linings
Speaker 2: in this dark cloud, is the way the Trump administration
Speaker 2: has governed has undermined the Maha movement and the power
Speaker 2: of that movement, like putting the seed oil lobbyists in
Speaker 2: charge of being the chief of staff of the Department
Speaker 2: of Ag, all the stuff with the glyphosates, that the
Speaker 2: power of that movement has diminished or fractured some, which
Speaker 2: I think has the potential to slow the spread of
Speaker 2: some of these dangerous conspiracy theories.
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Speaker 1: Let's talk midterms. As we mentioned, Trump on Thursday night
Speaker 1: was in Texas to take his pretend I'm on the
Speaker 1: ballot strategy for a spin, attending an RNC fundraiser for
Speaker 1: the Senate race that he characterized this way.
Speaker 8: We have a very good candidate, Ken Paxton, and he's
Speaker 8: running against Telefrico, they call him, because he is a
Speaker 8: little freaky. And that's not a man that represents the
Speaker 8: value of Texas.
Speaker 1: New poll from Texas Public Opinion Research on Thursday showing
Speaker 1: Tala Frico up six on Paxton and Gina Hossa down
Speaker 1: seven to Greg Abbott, which, you know, bummer poll about
Speaker 1: the governor's race. But it does suggest that they didn't
Speaker 1: oversample Democrats in that poll, at least. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's hard to know exactly where the
Speaker 2: polls are in this race, but in almost every single poll,
Speaker 2: Tala Frico has been leading by a few points, something
Speaker 2: that Beto O'Rourke never did in twenty eighteen. And so,
Speaker 2: you know, once again, we were about as well positioned
Speaker 2: as we could be, hope to be in a Texas
Speaker 2: Senate race in late August of the election year. And
Speaker 2: so I feel cautiously good about it. A lot of
Speaker 2: work to do. Tallarico has been spending money. Paxton hasn't
Speaker 2: been spending money. I think his super PAC just bought
Speaker 2: TV time right now. People expect, you know, maybe these
Speaker 2: will be the Trump agenda ads, but where MAGA Inc
Speaker 2: will spend their money will be Texas. Because Paxton is
Speaker 2: a very bad fundraiser and a lot of Republicans who
Speaker 2: are PACs do not want to sort of be associated
Speaker 2: with him. So Trump obviously has a kinship with Crooks.
Speaker 2: So he would jump in there. So we'll have to
Speaker 2: see when the spending like stabilizes or equalizes. But Teller
Speaker 2: is in a good spot right now.
Speaker 1: It is funny. All the Republican candidates who don't want
Speaker 1: to appear with Trump and may not want to appear
Speaker 1: with Trump in the lead up to the midterms. Maybe
Speaker 1: the only one less popular than Donald Trump right now
Speaker 1: is Ken Paxton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: So he's probably like, yeah, come on back anytime. So
Speaker 1: there was also some big news on Thursday in the
Speaker 1: Georgia Senate race. I'll just read the headline from the
Speaker 1: Washington Post. A former Mike Collins staffer posted KKK and
Speaker 1: Nazi images. Some Republicans see a pattern. I love this subhead.
Speaker 1: John Ossoff sees a pattern as well. He jumped on
Speaker 1: this right away. Let's listen.
Speaker 7: Well, what's new today is yet more documented evidence of
Speaker 7: the congressman's ties to white nationalism and neo-Nazi ideology. We
Speaker 7: already knew about the neo-Nazi propagandist based at his house
Speaker 7: who produces content for his business. We already knew that
Speaker 7: his office was briefing some of the nation's most notorious
Speaker 7: white supremacists on their efforts supporting a Holocaust denier. Now
Speaker 7: this morning, thanks to the reporting in the Washington Post,
Speaker 7: we've seen yet another member of the congressman's staff, this
Speaker 7: time with swastikas and the costume of the Klan. And absolutely,
Speaker 7: Georgia voters reject this and not just Democrats, but Democrats,
Speaker 7: independents and Republicans.
Speaker 1: So the staffer in question is Preston Parra. He's a
Speaker 1: former staffer who has described himself as a twink fascist.
Speaker 1: Twink fascist, Dan. And as Asaf mentioned, posted a Swastika
Speaker 1: made up of the words twink. And you're probably thinking,
Speaker 1: maybe we can post an image afterwards.
Speaker 2: I don't think we should post a swastika.
Speaker 1: That's the art for the episode. Basically, it was, yeah,
Speaker 1: he typed out in a tweet a lot of just
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of words, twink, twink, twink, twink, over
Speaker 1: and over, but then made it into a swastika. Just
Speaker 1: in case you were wondering how you How you post
Speaker 1: a swastika made up of the words twink. And then,
Speaker 1: of course, as Asaf referenced also, he posted a photo
Speaker 1: of himself in a KKK robe, which he told the
Speaker 1: post was generated with grok. I guess that helps. That helps, right?
Speaker 1: He also recently posted Deutschland Uber Al's.
Speaker 5: Al's?
Speaker 1: Allies? I'm just going to skip that. Skip that one.
Speaker 1: He says these posts were meant to be satirical. But
Speaker 1: he did tell the Post, quote, I do think that
Speaker 1: the white race contributes more to the world. Unbelievably, this
Speaker 1: is not a one-off. Mike Collins' former chief of staff
Speaker 1: was revealed to be in a group chat with Nick
Speaker 1: Fuentes and Richard Spencer where people praised Hitler. Another former
Speaker 1: Collins staffer was fired after yelling anti-Semitic slurs at Republican
Speaker 1: Congressman Mike Lawler. That was Rand Paul's son. And then
Speaker 1: there's Mike Collins' son-in-law. It's the guy running against John Ossoff,
Speaker 1: his son-in-law, who has quite recently shared Nazi imagery and
Speaker 1: propaganda online, including a post he said his wife made,
Speaker 1: the wife would be Mike Collins' daughter, that shows what
Speaker 1: he calls, quote, proof that Jews control our government through finance.
Speaker 1: The son-in-law also warned that restoring an America populated by
Speaker 1: people of white European descent would require, quote, clearing out
Speaker 1: land of other people. This is his son-in-law in family
Speaker 1: photos together. Not like, you know, black sheep of the
Speaker 1: family kind of thing. Like just, you know, they have
Speaker 1: pictures of the whole family together. And the daughter, he
Speaker 1: said the daughter made that post. As you heard Ossoff
Speaker 1: alluding to there, you know, Mike Collins clearly has a
Speaker 1: long history of surrounding himself with pretty bad creeps. How
Speaker 1: do you think this plays in Georgia? This is another
Speaker 1: one that sort of, it hasn't gone under the radar
Speaker 1: because every time I see Ossoff, he does mention that
Speaker 1: Mike Collins is a bigot. I was not aware of
Speaker 1: the long history of all of these different staffers and
Speaker 1: relatives until this latest story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he talks about all the time he's been hammering
Speaker 2: this at the stump for months now, ever since Mike
Speaker 2: Collins became the nominee. You know, it's obviously, I would say,
Speaker 2: close associations with neo-Nazis is not a net positive in
Speaker 2: any state. And so not good for him. What I
Speaker 2: think were this, there are two ways in which this
Speaker 2: is very hurtful to Collins and helpful to Ossoff is one,
Speaker 2: the metric that really has been deciding elections is who's
Speaker 2: seen as more extreme. Hard to get more extreme than
Speaker 2: just palling around with neo-Nazis and people posting swastikas. So
Speaker 2: that's not good. Also, the best thing they have in
Speaker 2: Ossoff is Republicans right off this race. And the more
Speaker 2: of this stuff is out there, the harder it is
Speaker 2: for Collins to raise money, the harder it'd be as
Speaker 2: Republicans look at how they're going to spend their money
Speaker 2: do they really want to put their money behind the
Speaker 2: guy who parties with white nationalists and hang out with
Speaker 2: white nationalists all the time or go to some of
Speaker 2: these other races? And so he can kind of, there
Speaker 2: are times in which you can win a race before
Speaker 2: it even starts. And Ossoff is kind of doing that
Speaker 2: right here by sort of just like delivering a mortal
Speaker 2: blow to the Collins campaign, you know, months, you know,
Speaker 2: 60 some days before six, seven days before the election.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It made me realize like, Oh, well, I mean,
Speaker 1: Ossoff very talented has been a great Senator is which
Speaker 1: I don't know if you, listened to Sarah Longwell's focus group,
Speaker 1: the latest one. She has a bunch of Trump voters
Speaker 1: who like Ossoff. It was very interesting. And a lot
Speaker 1: of it was like, he's like just really great constituent services.
Speaker 1: Like they can always get ahold of him. He's helping people.
Speaker 1: So that's all why he's doing well. But then having
Speaker 1: Mike Collins as an opponent, probably also helping.
Speaker 2: Then certainly making his life a little bit easier.
Speaker 1: Ossoff also released another statement on Thursday after the Atlanta
Speaker 1: Journal Constitution pressed him for a response to You guessed it,
Speaker 1: Hasan Piker's statement on his Twitch stream from last week. that, quote,
Speaker 1: if Jews in America keep putting this idea out there
Speaker 1: that they are singularly invested in Israel, eventually someone's going
Speaker 1: to come around and take action against American Jews. What
Speaker 1: followed has been a week of various elected Democrats condemning Piker.
Speaker 1: Abdul El-Sayed, who has campaigned with Piker, condemned the substance
Speaker 1: of the comments. without condemning Piker himself, though he did
Speaker 1: say he doesn't speak for Abdul, that only Abdul speaks
Speaker 1: for Abdul, Ossoff, through a spokesperson, replied that he, quote,
Speaker 1: unreservedly rejects reckless and dangerous rhetoric, like those comments, and that, quote,
Speaker 1: all Americans must have the freedom and security to speak
Speaker 1: out and petition their government without fear of reprisal. Now,
Speaker 1: those of you who follow me on Twitter might be thinking, John,
Speaker 1: didn't you just call on all Democrats to take the
Speaker 1: don't talk about Hassan Piker for a day challenge? Why, yes,
Speaker 1: I did. And most of political Twitter, including several Democratic politicians, failed.
Speaker 1: So I am intentionally failing today in order to make
Speaker 1: another plea. I think it's one thing if, like John Ossoff,
Speaker 1: you are pressed by a reporter to respond to whatever
Speaker 1: the latest Hassan Piker statement is. I do not think
Speaker 1: that spending every day from now until November talking about Denouncing,
Speaker 1: defending Hassan Piker will either make Hassan Piker go away
Speaker 1: or help Democrats win the midterms. I think it will
Speaker 1: instead keep one very polarizing leftist influencer at the center
Speaker 1: of the discourse and give Republicans and right-wing media excuse
Speaker 1: after excuse to cover each new denunciation. What do you think, Dan?
Speaker 2: Is this a trap?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: If I answer the question, I have failed the test
Speaker 2: you set up.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I'm saying. I failed it. I've already failed.
Speaker 1: It's a failure. I tried. Didn't work. Okay.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to do this briefly. The main goal
Speaker 2: here is to elect Democrats to the Senate majority. We
Speaker 2: cannot really elect Democrats to the Senate majority without Abdul
Speaker 2: winning in Michigan. And my perhaps naive belief is that
Speaker 2: everyone in this debate wants Abdul to win. And the
Speaker 2: best way for Abdul to win is for everyone, the
Speaker 2: people condemning Hassan, the people condemning Hassan and Hassan himself
Speaker 2: to move on and stop fighting about this. We are
Speaker 2: 67 days away. We need to be talking about Mike Rogers,
Speaker 2: about his corruption, how a vote for Mike Rogers is
Speaker 2: a vote for Donald Trump and Donald Trump's agenda. It's
Speaker 2: a vote to make Donald Trump in charge of the Senate.
Speaker 2: We have to get focused on The main thing. And
Speaker 2: the main thing is Mike Rogers.
Speaker 8: Agreed.
Speaker 2: Mike Rogers is corrupt. Mike Rogers wants to give your
Speaker 2: money to rich people. He doesn't want you to have
Speaker 2: health care. A vote for him is to ensure that
Speaker 2: Donald Trump gets to appoint more Supreme Court justices. That
Speaker 2: is a thing. We've got to talk about Mike Rogers.
Speaker 1: Well said. We're going to leave that as the last word.
Speaker 1: Maybe ever. When we come back, South Carolina Senate candidate
Speaker 1: Annie Andrews. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. While we're
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Speaker 2: Joining me now is the Democratic nominee for Senate in
Speaker 2: South Carolina, Dr. Annie Andrews. Dr. Andrews, welcome to Pod
Speaker 2: Save America.
Speaker 10: Thank you so much for having me, Dan.
Speaker 2: I want to get into the race. I want to
Speaker 2: talk about Darlene Graham. I'm going to talk about what
Speaker 2: Donald Trump said about you today, just now. But I
Speaker 2: just want to start because I think I imagine that
Speaker 2: The South Carolina Senate race hasn't been on the radar.
Speaker 2: A lot of our listeners were focused on Texas, Ohio,
Speaker 2: North Carolina, Michigan, et cetera. You're a pediatrician. How did
Speaker 2: you end up running for Senate?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm a pediatrician. I've worked in children's hospitals for
Speaker 10: 20 years. I never envisioned I would pivot into politics.
Speaker 10: My first foray in politics was in 2022 when I
Speaker 10: ran for Congress in South Carolina's first district against Nancy Mace.
Speaker 10: Saw the ugliest side of politics in that race. But
Speaker 10: I ended up in politics because for the first 15
Speaker 10: years of my career working at the bedside of sick
Speaker 10: and injured children, I very quickly started to understand the
Speaker 10: impact of broken policies coming from failing politicians on my
Speaker 10: patients and their families. So I naively started advocating at
Speaker 10: my state capitol for better policies for kids and families
Speaker 10: in South Carolina. And what I was saying was falling
Speaker 10: on mostly deaf ears. So it became abundantly clear that
Speaker 10: to catalyze change for America's kids and families, I needed
Speaker 10: to explicitly advocate engage in politics on behalf of America's
Speaker 10: kids and families. And so I ran for Congress. And
Speaker 10: here I am in this US Senate race.
Speaker 2: As you mentioned, you ran against the very charming and
Speaker 2: wonderful and affable Nancy Mace last time around. What did
Speaker 2: you learn from that race, which is a very tough
Speaker 2: race in a tough year, and you lost by I
Speaker 2: think about 14 points.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did.
Speaker 10: It came down to partisan voting lines. That was a
Speaker 10: redistricting year. It was a purple seat when I got
Speaker 10: into the race, knowing they would probably draw it into
Speaker 10: a very safe Republican seat. And that's what they did.
Speaker 10: But what I learned is all of these fights are
Speaker 10: worth fighting, no matter how uphill the challenge is. It
Speaker 10: was very clear to me that South Carolinians needed to
Speaker 10: have a choice on the ballot. That was the election
Speaker 10: cycle where Roe fell. And so as a doctor, and
Speaker 10: a mom. I was able to give a voice to
Speaker 10: so many women in South Carolina who were feeling totally
Speaker 10: left behind in that moment. And I strongly believe now
Speaker 10: that second-time candidates are way better than first-time candidates. I'm
Speaker 10: a much better public speaker. I'm a much better fundraiser.
Speaker 10: And so what I say often is if I wasn't
Speaker 10: a loser congressional candidate, I wouldn't be such a strong
Speaker 10: Senate candidate this cycle.
Speaker 2: I often point out to people that Barack Obama also
Speaker 2: lost his first race for Congress. So there you go.
Speaker 2: There you go. I want to... play a clip for you.
Speaker 2: This is a moment that went quite viral from your opponent,
Speaker 2: Darlene Graham's victory speech on Tuesday night.
Speaker 11: Gun control, government-run health care, abortion until the moment of birth,
Speaker 11: bad idea after bad idea, Annie Andrews backs them all.
Speaker 11: I have a different background and vision for our state.
Speaker 11: I'm a hard worker with a servant's heart. I grew
Speaker 11: up in the back of a bar and liquor store
Speaker 11: in one room in central South Carolina. My parents worked long,
Speaker 11: hard hours to make ends meet. We didn't take vacations.
Speaker 11: If they were sick, they had to get up and
Speaker 11: go to work because the doors weren't open. We weren't
Speaker 11: making money. My mother passed away when I was 11
Speaker 11: and my father just over a year later.
Speaker 2: Okay, before you get to all the bevy of accusations
Speaker 2: at the front of that, it seems to me that
Speaker 2: there is an inherent logic problem with what she's saying here.
Speaker 2: What was your reaction to this clip?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think she sort of unintentionally unveiled her healthcare
Speaker 10: plan in that moment. And it seems to me that
Speaker 10: her healthcare plan is work hard even while you're sick
Speaker 10: until you die. And I believe that Darlene's parents deserved
Speaker 10: better than that. I believe everyone in America deserves better
Speaker 10: than that. You know, maybe I should ask her to
Speaker 10: fill out an in-kind contribution form for my campaign because
Speaker 10: she is making the case for what I'm running on, that,
Speaker 10: you know, we need a health care system that is patient-centered,
Speaker 10: that health care is a human right. And I think
Speaker 10: that story just really highlights how broken America's health care
Speaker 10: system is, that working people should be able to take
Speaker 10: a sick day when they're sick, and they should also
Speaker 10: be able to afford health care when they're sick.
Speaker 2: Talk to me a little bit about your health care plan.
Speaker 2: We're having a big debate in the Democratic Party about
Speaker 2: how to deal with health care. We have people calling
Speaker 2: for Medicare for all. We have people who are skeptical
Speaker 2: of Medicare. Where do you fall in that debate?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, the other thing I'll say about that
Speaker 10: clip before we move on is she has negative charisma.
Speaker 10: I think that it's very clear that this is the
Speaker 10: weakest candidate Republicans have put in a Senate race this cycle.
Speaker 10: And so that creates such a huge opportunity for us
Speaker 10: here in South Carolina. But my health care plan is,
Speaker 10: number one, as I said, I believe health care is
Speaker 10: a human right. I know we have to shift from
Speaker 10: this profit-motivated health care system that we have in America
Speaker 10: to one that is truly patient-centered. I'm also a really
Speaker 10: pragmatic person. And I believe that we can't let perfect
Speaker 10: be the enemy of good, that we have to work
Speaker 10: hard across the aisle to move the ball down the field,
Speaker 10: just like we did when the ACA was passed. And
Speaker 10: so I think the next obvious step is a public
Speaker 10: option so that folks who don't have access to employer-based
Speaker 10: health insurance can purchase a plan from the federal government,
Speaker 10: removing the profit motivation from that transaction. And I think
Speaker 10: that will force private insurance companies to offer more comprehensive
Speaker 10: benefit plans at lower premium rates And then there'll be
Speaker 10: a domino effect as Americans realize I'm getting a much
Speaker 10: better deal from this federal government plan where my money
Speaker 10: isn't going to line the pockets of insurance company shareholders,
Speaker 10: but it's actually going to the provision of health care.
Speaker 10: And once more and more Americans have that realization, then
Speaker 10: and really, in my view, only then can we have
Speaker 10: a true productive, bipartisan conversation about how then to take
Speaker 10: the next step to building a healthcare system that really
Speaker 10: does serve everyone in this country.
Speaker 2: I kind of can't believe I'm about to say this sentence,
Speaker 2: but at an event this morning in the Oval Office
Speaker 2: where the President of the United States was announcing that
Speaker 2: we were changing the name of Lake Ontario to Lake America,
Speaker 2: he began that event by talking about your race. He
Speaker 2: congratulated Darlene Graham, and he said, and I'm going to quote,
Speaker 2: she's still got to run against a radical left lunatic,
Speaker 2: and the South Carolina people are not going to stand
Speaker 2: for that I mean, Trump says a lot of things
Speaker 2: that this is obviously you saw that in the clip
Speaker 2: I played from Graham. This is sort of the case
Speaker 2: against you. How do you respond to that?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, what is so radical about thinking that
Speaker 10: if you work hard during the day, you should be
Speaker 10: able to afford to put food on the table and
Speaker 10: keep your lights on at the end of the month?
Speaker 10: What is so radical about thinking every county in South
Speaker 10: Carolina should have an OBGYN? What is so radical about
Speaker 10: thinking that you should be able to afford to see
Speaker 10: a doctor when you get sick? What is so radical
Speaker 10: about thinking if your community doesn't want a data center,
Speaker 10: there shouldn't be a data center built there? I believe
Speaker 10: that Darlene's policies, whichever ones she actually has, are the
Speaker 10: radical policies. I'm fighting for everyday South Carolina kids and families,
Speaker 10: and I am so proud of my policy platform. I'm
Speaker 10: proud of my record of being a public servant and
Speaker 10: fighting for South Carolinians. And nothing that is said in
Speaker 10: the Oval Office is going to change that.
Speaker 2: South Carolina is a tough state. It is one Trump
Speaker 2: won by about 18 points. It's more Republican than a
Speaker 2: lot of these other Senate races and Republican states that
Speaker 2: Democrats have gotten hopeful about like Texas and Ohio. I
Speaker 2: think a lot of Democrats out there have a lot
Speaker 2: of scar tissue because they got their hopes up about
Speaker 2: Jimmy Harrison beating Lindsey Graham. So a lot of people,
Speaker 2: I imagine they're going to be impressed by this interview.
Speaker 2: They're going to be interested in your candidacy and they're
Speaker 2: trying to decide whether this is a good place to
Speaker 2: invest their time and energy. What is your case for
Speaker 2: why you can win this race in this very tough state.
Speaker 10: So this Senate race in 2026 in South Carolina really
Speaker 10: couldn't be any more different than the race that Jamie
Speaker 10: Harrison ran in 2020. First and foremost, it's a midterm year.
Speaker 10: The president is not on the ballot to boost Republican turnout. Secondly,
Speaker 10: Jamie Harrison was running against a powerful incumbent senator who
Speaker 10: was very well-funded. Now I'm running against a virtual unknown who,
Speaker 10: as we already said, has no political talent, clearly bad
Speaker 10: political instincts, and an absolute lack of charisma. We also
Speaker 10: have an incredibly divided Republican Party. Despite the fact that
Speaker 10: Trump spent millions of dollars propping Darlene up in the
Speaker 10: election earlier this week, she only won by five points.
Speaker 10: And in Ralph Norman's speech that night, he didn't give
Speaker 10: a ringing endorsement to Darlene. He's bitter that Trump got involved.
Speaker 10: Ralph Norman's supporters are really upset about the fact that
Speaker 10: this is just going to potentially be a Graham dynasty.
Speaker 10: And so the Republican Party is incredibly divided. And then
Speaker 10: I'm a very different candidate than my friend, Jamie Harrison.
Speaker 10: I'm not a career politician. I'm not a former state
Speaker 10: party chair or lobbyist. I'm a pediatrician and a public
Speaker 10: school mom who comes at politics from a very different
Speaker 10: And so, you know, I got in this race over
Speaker 10: a year ago thinking there was a chance that the
Speaker 10: stars would align, that this could be the year that
Speaker 10: we could win this Senate seat. And the stars have
Speaker 10: aligned in a way that we never in a million
Speaker 10: years thought that they would. And now we are in
Speaker 10: a real position to win this thing. We just released
Speaker 10: a poll this week that shows that I'm tied with
Speaker 10: Darlene right out of the gate, 41 to 41. And
Speaker 10: this is a very real, robust poll. And then on
Speaker 10: the informed ballot, I go up by five points. And
Speaker 10: the way that I'm doing that in a state that
Speaker 10: Trump won by 18 points is is because I'm appealing
Speaker 10: to those really critical independent voters and center-right Republican voters.
Speaker 10: I'm plus 33 points with independents right now. We just
Speaker 10: launched our first general election ad on Wednesday, so we
Speaker 10: have a leg up on Darlene in that. She just
Speaker 10: spent all of her money to escape her own primary,
Speaker 10: and we've been building a war chest to compete in November.
Speaker 10: So this is a change election cycle. People are looking
Speaker 10: for a new generation of leadership. They're certainly not looking
Speaker 10: for a rubber stamp for this or any other administrations.
Speaker 2: South Carolina is now the first Democratic primary state. There
Speaker 2: are already a lot of Democrats coming through South Carolina
Speaker 2: who may possibly just happen to be considering to run
Speaker 2: for president. Do you plan to campaign with any of
Speaker 2: these national Democrats coming through? Have you thought about that?
Speaker 2: This is a question a lot of Senate candidates are
Speaker 2: getting in these sort of red states.
Speaker 10: You know, I'm really focused on spending as much time
Speaker 10: as I can with South Carolina voters. That's what's most important.
Speaker 10: That is my path to win. And that's also why
Speaker 10: I'm in this race.
Speaker 9: You're right.
Speaker 10: There's a lot of national Democrats who are spending time
Speaker 10: in South Carolina. And I think that's great because, you know,
Speaker 10: as we expand the Senate map, that path is definitely
Speaker 10: throughout the Southeast. We need more Democratic Party investment in
Speaker 10: the South. And having all of this first in the
Speaker 10: nation attention is only going to help us grow strength
Speaker 10: as a party in South Carolina. So I welcome these visits.
Speaker 10: But what I've been saying is I'll return these phone
Speaker 10: calls on November 4th when I'm South Carolina's next senator.
Speaker 10: And then we can start to strategize about what 2028
Speaker 10: is going to look like.
Speaker 2: So no campaigning with sort of National Democratic or National
Speaker 2: Democrats or presidential candidates, all South Carolina is what you're saying.
Speaker 10: It's not our focus. We're taking it on a case
Speaker 10: by case basis. You know, Pete Buttigieg was just in
Speaker 10: town for our our annual issues conference. And I had
Speaker 10: the fortune of saying hello to him there. But we're
Speaker 10: really focused on spending time with voters.
Speaker 2: And you're a candidate. You're also a doctor. I wanted
Speaker 2: to get your reaction to what is going on in
Speaker 2: this country with the measles outbreak. There's reports that RFK Jr.
Speaker 2: may have lied to Congress. This is now, I think
Speaker 2: by some measures, the largest measles outbreak in the United
Speaker 2: States in 35 years. What's your reaction?
Speaker 10: I mean, most of what comes out of RFK Jr.
Speaker 10: 's mouth are lies. So I'm not surprised to hear that.
Speaker 10: But I got in this race. I seriously started considering
Speaker 10: getting in this race the day RFK Jr. was nominated
Speaker 10: to lead HHS because as a pediatrician, he's been my
Speaker 10: professional arch nemesis for decades. He's nothing more than a
Speaker 10: grifter and a conspiracy theorist who's been peddling an anti-vaccine
Speaker 10: conspiracy theories for decades while simultaneously enriching himself. And as
Speaker 10: a result of that, as a pediatrician, I've watched over
Speaker 10: my 20-year career a slow and steady rise in vaccine
Speaker 10: refusal and vaccine hesitancy. And that is the exact reason
Speaker 10: that we are seeing a resurgence of preventable infectious diseases
Speaker 10: all across this country. In South Carolina, we just had
Speaker 10: a measles outbreak in Spartanburg County where there were nearly
Speaker 10: a thousand documented cases of the measles. So one of
Speaker 10: the reasons it is so urgent that Democrats win in
Speaker 10: November is because we cannot allow RFK Jr. to have
Speaker 10: two more years of unfettered access leading our nation's Department
Speaker 10: of Health and Human Services. This executive order from the
Speaker 10: Trump administration dismantling the routine childhood immunization schedule is not
Speaker 10: at all based on an evolution of scientific evidence. It
Speaker 10: is based on political ideology. Children will unnecessarily get sick
Speaker 10: and suffer, and some will die as a result of
Speaker 10: this disinformation campaign from the Federal Department of Health and
Speaker 10: Human Services.
Speaker 2: RFK Jr. 's ascension, everything we're talking about here, the
Speaker 2: rise of vaccine skepticism is all sort of of a
Speaker 2: piece with sort of the rise of the quote unquote,
Speaker 2: make America healthy again movement where you, and I imagine
Speaker 2: this is something you probably run into with a lot
Speaker 2: of some of the families of your patients where people
Speaker 2: have very legitimate questions about, you know, food safety, how to,
Speaker 2: you know, what's the right choice for their kids. And
Speaker 2: that is, and you know, people like RFK Jr. and
Speaker 2: others have sort of weaponized that and pushed the country
Speaker 2: in some dangerous directions. Have you thought about how, as
Speaker 2: a senator or as a public figure, you with your
Speaker 2: medical expertise could push back on the rise of Maha
Speaker 2: and maybe have conversations with these well-meaning, I think, parents
Speaker 2: who maybe are getting a lot of bad information from
Speaker 2: social media?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 10: And I like that you said well-meaning parents because I
Speaker 10: don't blame the parents. Even the parents of the children
Speaker 10: who are dying from these preventable infectious diseases because they've
Speaker 10: chosen not to vaccinate their children. Parents don't know where
Speaker 10: to turn for reliable information. I never in a million
Speaker 10: years thought that I would say the sentence, we cannot
Speaker 10: trust the medical recommendations coming from our federal government, but
Speaker 10: we can't. We have to turn to our individual physicians.
Speaker 10: So I encourage parents to talk to their own pediatricians,
Speaker 10: to follow along with what the American Academy of Pediatrics
Speaker 10: is saying, because that is an evidence-based organization. But what
Speaker 10: they've done is really clever and dangerous because they're laundering
Speaker 10: this really anti-science agenda that under this umbrella of making
Speaker 10: America healthy again, of addressing the chronic disease epidemic that
Speaker 10: children in America are facing. So when I'm asked what
Speaker 10: I agree with the Trump administration on, one of the
Speaker 10: things I say is they've shined a light on the
Speaker 10: chronic disease epidemic amongst children in this country. But where
Speaker 10: we disagree is the root causes of that chronic disease
Speaker 10: epidemic and actually the solution. So you can't in one
Speaker 10: sentence say we want to address chronic diseases in children.
Speaker 10: And then in the next action, you gut the Medicaid program,
Speaker 10: which is the largest insurer of children. across the country.
Speaker 10: You can't put someone like RFK Jr. at the helm
Speaker 10: of HHS and pretend like you're following scientifically sound medical recommendations.
Speaker 10: So they've shined a light on the problem. I'm going
Speaker 10: to win my election. I'll go toe to toe with
Speaker 10: RFK Jr. We will impeach and remove him. And then
Speaker 10: we will take that big bright light they shined on
Speaker 10: this epidemic and then actually address it through an evidence-based,
Speaker 10: scientifically sound approach.
Speaker 2: Before I let you go, I want to give you
Speaker 2: a chance to tell our listeners where they can go
Speaker 2: to help your campaign if they so choose.
Speaker 10: Yeah, so they can go to DrAnnieAndrews.com and they can
Speaker 10: follow along on social media. We're very active on social
Speaker 10: media at Annie Andrews MD. We also just launched a
Speaker 10: new exciting website called DebateMeDarlene.com where they can go and
Speaker 10: see how many days, hours, minutes, and seconds it's been
Speaker 10: since I challenged Darlene Graham to debate me this general
Speaker 10: election season. So lots of ways to follow along. I
Speaker 10: encourage people to check out the website, chip in what
Speaker 10: they can and help us expand the Senate map through
Speaker 10: the South and this really exciting opportunity in South Carolina.
Speaker 2: Dr. Annie Andrews, thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 2: on Pod Save America and good luck down the stretch here.
Speaker 10: Thank you so much, Dan.
Speaker 1: That's our show for today. Thanks to Annie Andrews for
Speaker 1: coming on. I will be back in the feed on
Speaker 1: Sunday with a conversation with our old friend, David Plouffe,
Speaker 1: about how the midterms and 2028 are shaping up. Bye everyone.
Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our show
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