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Speaker 1: Welcome to episode ninety two of Get Out Alive, a

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podcast about animal attacks, why they happen, and how we

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can avoid them. I'm your host, Ashley, and I'm Nick,

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and I swear eventually I'm going to stop apologizing for

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not uploading episodes more often. But at this point, like

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with school and everything, I'm kind of just doing the

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research when I have time and when i'm interested. Today

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so today, yeah, because I don't know, we started this

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for fun. I want to keep it fun. I don't

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want it ever to be a chore, which I know

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I've said before. So that's it, moving right along. Thank

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you to all of you who subscribe to you get

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notifications when these are put out. And thanks for those

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of you who leave five star reviews wherever you're listening.

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Speaker 2: Bump those numbers up. Let's go.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So today's reviews coming from Apple Podcasts left by

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Maura Max, and it says I found this podcast a

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few months ago and absolutely love listening to this at work.

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I'm a plant biology research assistant, so.

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Speaker 2: Cool, that's me. I'm planted. Oh yeah, you are a.

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Speaker 1: Plant Nick, and getting a mix of information with humor

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is the perfect combination to make the hours fly by

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love how Ashley is able to have great chemistry with everyone,

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but of course her and Nick are unmatched.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Facts.

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Speaker 1: My goal is to visit more national parks in my lifetime,

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so I will definitely keep all the info I learned

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here in mine. Thanks. I feel like, if anything, Maura,

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we could learn from you about plants, because I know

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nothing about plants. So the topic for this episode was

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inspired by one of my previous co workers named Nick,

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who is a marine. Also a marine. Yes, you were

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both Nick's named Nope, you're both marines named Nick. No,

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how I did that? Yeah, I can't remember how this

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came up, like how he suggested it. But long story short,

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we're doing today's episode on cows.

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Speaker 2: Bobby has heard of some fucked up shit with cows.

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Speaker 1: I think he was referencing a previous episode. He's doing

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this thing where he's listening to all of them and

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then just like randomly texting me about from episodes that

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we did like two years ago, and I'm like, I

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have no idea what you're talking.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember a single thing about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, recently he was like, oh, I love your Roman

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Empire bit. I was like couldn't tell you what that was.

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It was great, Yeah, for sure, everything so much.

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Speaker 3: Well I sure, okay, Nick, before we get into anything,

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you have a cow story that you've told on this

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podcast before.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to tell it again?

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Speaker 2: I mean like, sure, yeah, I d ask I was

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on a field trip to a local high school's like

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agricultural program area thing held. Were you kindergarten so I

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was have her older kinggartners five six something like that?

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Sure yeah sure. So Like we're walking around and like

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there are some guys like, oh, we're gonna bring a

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cow out, so all the kids see a cow, Like

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all right, sweet. So I'm being me, bumbling around, looking,

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you know, at the trees and shit, and like someone

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starts yelling us something. I turned around. There's a dude

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like running out with a cow. The cow is like

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dragging him, and I'm like, oh great, it's coming right

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at me. This is gonna be fun. So like one

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of the teachers like grabs me and like throws them

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out to the side and she gets fucking ran over

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by this cow and like breaks her ankle. On this

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field trip, it was awesome. And me just being me,

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I'm just bumbling around like, oh God, my grandmother's sauce

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is over It's literally like across the street from my

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grandmother's house. I'm like, oh, my grandma sauce is over there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this one's being trampled and you're like waving like Grandma.

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Speaker 2: I remember all this happening. I remember zero like concern,

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like oh no, I almost died now.

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Speaker 1: It was just like oh all right, yeah, of course

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not you're like a baby.

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Speaker 2: Fall yeah, like yeah that survival and sticks aren't really there,

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you know, yeah, which is ironic. I've done a lot

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of a shit, but yeah, cows are big and scary

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and fast and god damn they can fuck you up,

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like without even trying.

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Speaker 1: You know, if this episode has taught me, like researching

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this episode has taught me anything, we I feel like

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you need to go down a rabbit hole or like

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a series on domestic animals or like farm animals because

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they like obviously it's because we interact with them more

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hands on and there's a lot of them, which is

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why there's more instances of this happening. But still, like

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they hurt a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh definitely, I mean that not just cows,

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like farm animals in general. Yeah, that's mean terrifying. Horses

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are terrifying. I'm not a horse guy, like I have

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never ridden one, Like I'm good, I don't it's never

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ridden a horse. Nope, don't need to.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I love riding horses. I have a very healthy

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fear of horses.

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Speaker 2: As you should. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They we should be more afraid of their teeth, you

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know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, everything, all of it. We literally used them as

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war animals, like there's a reason, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, speaking of let's break down some of these statistics

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regarding how often cows.

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Speaker 2: Kill people or hurt people kill Okay, we're talking injuries

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or deaths, yes, okay, Well what's included in these statistics?

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Which one well I'm literally about to tell you, okay, God,

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damn So on average.

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Speaker 1: Nick, cows killed twenty two people a year in the

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United States, Damn Yeah. According to data from the years

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two thousand and three to two thousand and seven by

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the CDC, ten of the twenty one fatalities involved attacks

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by individual bulls, six involved attacks by individual cows so females.

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Five involved multiple cattle, So that'd be like a stampede probably,

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like I heard, yeah, yeah, So the CDC stated, quote,

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these deaths occurred throughout the year in descedence, which means

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people who died tended to be older, aged over sixty years,

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and that was like sixty seven percent of the deaths

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and ninety five percent of the people who died were men.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense, I mean all the cattle workers

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in there.

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Speaker 1: Then, except in one case the cause of death was

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blunt force trauma to the head or chest. Circumstances associated

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with these deaths include working with cattle and enclosed areas.

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Of thirty three percent of the people who died, moving

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or herding cattle twenty four percent, loading cattle fourteen percent,

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and feeding fourteen percent. One third of the deaths were

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caused by animals that had previously exhibited aggressive behavior. To

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reduce the risk of death from cattle caused injuries, farmers

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and ranchers should be aware of and follow recommended practices

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for safe livestock handling facilities and proper precautions for working

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with cattle, especially cattle that have exhibited aggressiveness, which I'm

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assuming if you work out a farm, you probably know

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what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, are these really the type

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of people who are going to listen to the government

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on safe handling of their own cows. I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean probably not the CD for sure. I

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also found a study titled Fatalities Caused by Cattle Dash

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four States, and it was between the years two thousand

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and three and two thousand and eight, which found that

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between Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, and Nebraska, five percent of deaths

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which occurred during the production of crops and animals in

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the US were caused by cattle.

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Speaker 2: Only five percent. Is that that's not as high as

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that expect. Where are the other deaths coming from? Where

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the other ninety five percent?

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Speaker 1: Probably machinery, I guess. Yeah, well, I mean, I'm sure

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it's not ninety five percent machinery.

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Speaker 2: But no, no, no, no, no, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Five percent of deaths in the like Agricultural Department were

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caused by cattle specifically, so specifically cows.

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Speaker 2: I would still expect to be higher. But hey, yeah, whatever,

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it's just.

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Speaker 1: In four states, so take that with what you will.

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But it also found the majority of the fatalities were

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men above the age of sixty again, and most of

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them were caused by animals that had previously shown aggressive

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behavior again and then data from twenty twenty one found

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there to be ninety six cattle ranching related fatal injuries

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from that year alone, twenty one. Yeah, thirteen of which

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were due to violence or other injuries by animals or people.

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Speaker 2: Jesus, Yeah, so there was Wait, you said there was

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like twenty something and like a what five year span,

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ten year span something like that, and then.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, then toenty twenty one, ninety six well fatal injuries.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, damn. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There was also a ten year study conducted in Sweden

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which was published in nineteen eighty nine titled Fatalities Caused

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by Non Venomous Animals and sixteen deaths over the ten

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years were caused by cattle, all of which were due

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to the animal being aggressive. The study found the herding

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of untethered bulls together with cows was especially dangerous and

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they recommended it be avoided. I have a lot of

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studies here, so I'm just going to keep cuising. I

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found another one called Cattle Caused Fatalities in a Province

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of Western Turkey nineteen ninety six to twenty ten, autopsy

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results which found that for deaths caused by cattle between

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nineteen ninety six and twenty ten, ninety four percent of

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the deaths were men, and the most cases were between

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the age of eighteen to sixty, so adults. I know,

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it's like a huge range. And seventy one percent of

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the deaths were caused by injuries to the chest, and

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most of those resulted in hemneumothorax, which is when blood

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and air enter your chest cavity and put pressure around

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your lungs. Some other quick ones a study from Finland,

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and I can link all these in the episode description

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if anyone wants to read some scientific literature. But this

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study found cows caused injuries that resulted in death, mainly

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by kicking and butting, and they caused the most animal

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related deaths, second only to horses. Right yep, dango. And

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in a Nigerian study, two children died from cattle, one

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from a severe head injury and the other from overwhelming

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infection caused by a goring injury.

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Speaker 2: Oh gross. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Then in Australia, farming accounts for one in four work

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related deaths. Wow, And I know the National Coroner's Information

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System has information stored on all Australian deaths reported for

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the past twenty six years and they put out a

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fact sheet each year. So for twenty twenty four, of

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all animal related deaths, and we're talking about Australia, men

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accounted for sixty eight percent of the deaths and half

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of all deaths occurred in New South Wales and Queensland,

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so twenty five percent for each horses killed the most

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people in Australia, similar to Finland, which.

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Speaker 2: Is not all the venomous animals they have and scary shit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not crocodiles, not sharks, not jellyfish, yeah, horses damn.

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So that was one hundred and twenty seven deaths. But

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in spot number two was bovine, so cows, bulls and

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other bovines, which accounted for fifteen percent of all animal

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related deaths, and they killed eighty two people.

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Speaker 2: Oh Jesus.

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Speaker 1: Fifty two point four percent were caused by direct contact

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with the animal, and thirty four percent of people were

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above age sixty five. So we're seeing a trend here

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of men above the age of sixty really who are

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being killed.

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Speaker 2: But like a lot more women in Australia being killed

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by cows than you know anywhere else. I wonder why,

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I wonder where that is. I wonder if they have

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a lot more women in the farming industry. I don't know,

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like that's a massive difference.

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Speaker 1: I mean men's stall counted for sixty eight percent of

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all of the animal related deaths though.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh is this all animal Okay? I was specifically

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the cows. There's only that everyone else in the nineties. Yeah,

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that's a massive statistical difference.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, math all right. And then to wrap this up,

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a study from the Journal of Forensic Science, Medicine and

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Pathology titled Death and Injuries Caused by Cattle A forensic

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over you found that quote cattle cause significant numbers of

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deaths globally and are considered the most dangerous large animal

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in Britain. Behavior may be unpredictable, even in apparently docile

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domesticated animals, and attacks maybe by a single animal or herd,

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and result in injuries from kicking, headbutting, charging, stomping, goring,

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and crushing. Cranio Facial injuries may involve fractures of the

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spine or skull, with cerebral contusions and lacerations associated with subarachnoid,

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subdural and extradural hemorrhages. Chest injuries are also characterized by

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fractures which may be multiple with flail, chest hemo, and pneumothorass.

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I don't know if I'm pronouncing these right. I'm gonna

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hope they're.

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Speaker 2: Very large, writes, Hey, go with confidence. You're doing great.

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Speaker 1: Thanks. And organ disruption. Injuries to the abdomen in perineum

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include intestinal perforations, splenic rupture, pereneal in, vaginal tears, urethral

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lacerations and evulsions, and bladder and rectal pers Significant vascular

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injuries include complete and partial transsections and lacerations. Males living

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in rural areas are most at risk for a fatal encounter.

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Speaker 2: Well, they went into a lot of detail.

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Speaker 1: They did, and those were big medical words. So I

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can once again link that study if you want to

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look more into it. But basically, Cols crush you and

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Terry open the longer sort of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's how they do it.

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Speaker 1: So statistics aside, let's finally get into some stories. Hey,

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let's start with a story from August tenth, twenty twenty one.

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This story takes place in Stockport, which is a town

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in Greater Manchester, England. Jill Gilmore and her husband Mark

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were walking their dog Finnegan, and they were headed over

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a style. Do you know what a style is? I

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do not, Yeah, I had to look this up. So

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in the UK, it's a structure which allows people passage

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through or over a fence wall or hedgerow and farm

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animals from doing the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Oh interesting, kind.

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Speaker 1: Of like steps but like I don't know, so I

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first art out six stairs but it's like a specific

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to keep cattle out, So okay. Despite this style, there

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was no fencing to keep the live stock away from

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the public though, so it's confusing, but essentially the public

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was still allowed to interact with the cattle and like

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by that, I mean the cattle can like get to people.

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Speaker 2: It seems like the style is like to go into

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the pasture and like then once you're in there, you're

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in honestly, yeah, yeah that's what sounds like. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So but they're on a public walking path, right, so

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like they're not doing anything wrong. This is just how

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it goes. They head over this style and Jill was

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ahead of Mark and Finnigan was on a short leash

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with Jill, so as they went over, a group of

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cows appeared and one charged. Jill said she let go

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of Finnegan's leash and tried to run away, but she

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fell and the herd of twenty to thirty cows began

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to attack her. Oh all she remembered was hooves hitting her,

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and she accepted that she was dying. She said. She relaxed,

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just accepting her fate essentially. Then her husband Mark ran

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up and yelled at her to get up. Mark recalls

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that the cows were quote jumping up and down on Jill,

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and he threw his belongings at them in an attempt

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to get them to stop. He leaned down to help

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her once the cows had dispersed, and she wrapped her

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arms around his neck and he dragged her out of

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the area under a broken piece of fence. So after

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she had been gored, essentially, he quickly tried to help

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them out of the field, but Jill told him to

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leave her there to die. Of course he didn't, as

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any good husband would. Yeah, that's crazy, and when he

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got her to safety, she was airlifted from the scene

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in Hazel Grove to a hospital. She was conscious, but

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she had fractures to her spine, neck, breaks in her

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arms and legs, a dozen broken ribs, and a broken

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pelvis and suffered punctured lungs. Oh Jesus, she needed multiple

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surgeries and had to be in a wheelchair for five months.

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Speaker 2: Damn.

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Speaker 1: And she didn't leave the hospital until October. Oh my god,

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all this happened in August.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, she got sucked up.

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Speaker 1: Thankfully, she was able to recover enough that she could

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go back to work. But in twenty twenty four, she

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began telling the media how she continues to struggle physically

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and psychologically, and Mark, her husband, also continues to struggle

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mentally as well in the wake of this attack.

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Speaker 2: Yeah scary, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Jill said. Quote and while nothing can change what I

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suffered that day, I hope that by sharing my story,

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I can help prevent it happening to anyone else. Farmers

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have a responsibility to keep their cattle in the public safe,

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and walkers need to know the potential risks out there

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so they can be prepared or make a conscious decision

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to avoid them, meaning the cows. Her lawyers said the

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Farmers Insurance have accepted full responsibility and have made funds

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available to cover the cost of her extensive physical and

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psychological rehabilitation.

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Speaker 2: What things did the farmer do wrong?

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Speaker 1: Didn't keep his cows away from people wall.

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Speaker 2: They crossed the thing to go into the pasture.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like, but there were still like that's I

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think confusing for us being Americans. I think that there's

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like a disconnect. As I was reading more stories, there

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seems to be a lot of public walking paths that

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happened to like be in fields or around fields, but

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the farmers still have an obligation to like fence off

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their cattle from like accessing the people. Okay, this will

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make more sense as we go on. Okay, so let's

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speaking of move on to another story. And this victim

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was inspired to share their story because of the story

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we just talked about.

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Speaker 2: No shit. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So in June sixth of twenty twenty four, sixty four

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year old David McKay, a retired veteran, was walking his

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four dogs on the Isle of Wight, an island off

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the south coast of England. He and the dogs walked

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along a coastal path and then through a field between

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the pepper Pot and Pan Lane near Knighton Knitton and

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I t o n but there's some wild names in

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this way. Yeah, things are spelled crazy over there. I

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say that we totally we live in New England where

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we have towns like Worcester. Yeah, we also stole a

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bunch of names from the English as we came over whatever. Anyways,

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Yeah we have in Manchester here. Yeah, we also live

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in New Hampshire.

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Speaker 2: No, we're the original, but that's all lies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not why we called it new at all.

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Like two leagues that come up with a new thing.

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Let's just we're new that old place, correct, hence New England. Anyways,

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So as David was walking with his dogs along the

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edge of a field where he knew there was cattle,

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he put the dogs on short leads so they wouldn't

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antagonize the cows. But the calves in the group apparently

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became interested in the dogs, and it wasn't long before

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a cow charged and knocked David to the ground. David

359
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let the dogs go and said, quote, then all the

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other cows led into the attack, and I was trying

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to keep my feet, but they just trampled me, circled

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me and pushed me down.

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Speaker 2: No shot, you're staying on your feet when they're coming.

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Speaker 1: After you, he said, quote speed of the attack and

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the determination of the cows to knock me down and

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trample me was astonishing. He struggled against the herds onslaught,

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but eventually crawled his way farther out of the field,

368
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and the cows eventually lost interest once again. This guy's

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a veterinarian, right, so he knew he was really badly

370
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injured after this, and he said if he hadn't gotten

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help within twenty minutes of the attack that he would die. Ooh,

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so he called nine ninety nine, which is the emergency

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number instead of nine to one one, and he called

374
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his wife. Hampshire Elwell and Isle of White air ambulance

375
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eventually found him from the air and a team of

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emergency medical personnel on foot rushed to his aid before

377
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flying him to Southampton General Hospital. Three of his dogs,

378
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Olive Patches and Willow, were found shortly after the attack,

379
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but it took four hours to locate his last dog, Ernie,

380
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who was blind. Yeah, but they did all safely make

381
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it home event.

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Speaker 2: Okay, good just wandering around a field with fucking killer cows.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, poor Ernie. There's also a picture of David with

384
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Ernie and it's very cute.

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Speaker 2: What kind of dogs?

386
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Speaker 1: Uh? At least I only saw Ernie. He just looked

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to be kind of like a mutt. Okay, yeah, we

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love mutts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

390
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Speaker 1: He spent ten days in intensive care with a collapse, lung,

391
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,279
bleeding in his chest, twelve ribs broken, and multiple fractures

392
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all over his body. He said, quote, with hindsight, you

393
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could say I shouldn't have walked through, but I had

394
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done it many times before and it was public. I

395
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don't feel that I was being irresponsible really. He also

396
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said he was surprised because as a vet, he thought

397
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he knew how to behave around animals like cows, but

398
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was just so surprised at their aggression.

399
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Speaker 2: And you brought predators around grazing animals. That's usually not

400
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:20,440
a good idea.

401
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:25,039
Speaker 1: Well, he wrote in a letter to The Guardian, quote,

402
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,240
we need to work with farmers to reduce risks, and

403
00:21:27,319 --> 00:21:30,559
work with walkers to raise awareness. My final recommendation is

404
00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:32,920
to support your local Air Ambulance, which is run as

405
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,960
a private charity. As without the Hampshire and Isle of

406
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Whight Service, I would not be here to write this

407
00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:38,599
letter today.

408
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Speaker 2: That's it's expensive private charity. That's that's big. Yeah.

409
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 1: We talked about that recently in another episode. I can't

410
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,960
remember now, maybe it was a bear attack, but it

411
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,799
was someone got airlifted from like a charity thing. I

412
00:21:51,839 --> 00:21:55,319
think it was a bear attack our last episode actually yeah, yeah, yeah,

413
00:21:55,319 --> 00:21:58,680
I remember that. Yeah, wow, crazy that were like hmm

414
00:21:59,279 --> 00:22:03,519
when was that? Oh? Last a month ago. So from

415
00:22:03,599 --> 00:22:07,400
what I've been finding, the issue of cattle attacking walkers

416
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,200
in the UK has been an ongoing issue for years now, apparently,

417
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as I discovered through the research. And I discovered this

418
00:22:13,599 --> 00:22:17,680
especially through a website called killercows dot co dot uk,

419
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,880
which is created by a group called Cows, which stands

420
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,359
for Concern over Walker's Safety.

421
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 2: All right, that's pretty good acronyms, So good for that

422
00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:30,599
effective appreciate seriously, Yeah, I mean now they owned the

423
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,880
acronym cow. I mean now the fucking farmers can't take it.

424
00:22:35,039 --> 00:22:37,319
Speaker 1: All members of the group have been cornered or attacked

425
00:22:37,319 --> 00:22:40,079
by cows while walking, and although not a political group

426
00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:43,400
or really even an official organization, they're trying to collect

427
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,039
stories and raise awareness to make walking in the UK

428
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,039
more safe from cows. As we heard in the last

429
00:22:49,079 --> 00:22:51,599
two stories, obviously they pose a very serious threat. So

430
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,200
let's keep going with another story from the UK, this

431
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,799
one from twenty twenty fifty seven year old Michael Holmes

432
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,480
is walking on September twenty ninth, twenty twenty with his

433
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:05,680
wife Teresa and their daughter's two dogs, which were whippets.

434
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,359
But I could not find the names of the dogs

435
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,119
or pictures of them. Unfortunately, I've never even heard of

436
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,039
that type of dog, a whippet. No, they're like little

437
00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:18,480
mini greyhounds. Oh really yeah, ooh yeah, very cute. So

438
00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:22,240
it was just Michael, Theresa, the two dogs, and they

439
00:23:22,279 --> 00:23:26,039
were on a path at Hollinghurst Farm in Netherton Wakefield, England.

440
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,559
Similar to the other two stories, the cows and calves

441
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,759
were not separated from the walking path. There was also

442
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,759
no signage indicating there were cows with calves in the area.

443
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,839
There was a sign at the bottom of the field, however,

444
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,319
that said quote these fields produce your food, clean up

445
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,039
after your dog. Please keep your dog in sight and

446
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,119
under control. So the homes did have their dogs on

447
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,799
short leads, very much under their control, and like I said,

448
00:23:51,839 --> 00:23:57,240
whippets smaller dogs. So the couple, who had been childhood

449
00:23:57,319 --> 00:24:01,359
sweethearts married for thirty four years, yeah, made their way

450
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,559
up a steep hill unaware there was a herd of

451
00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:07,000
cows at the top. Now, the couple did know that

452
00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:10,839
there were sometimes cattle present in the area, but Teresa said, quote,

453
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there were times when we'd seen them and decided to

454
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not go in the field because I don't want to

455
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cross a field I know has got cattle. In CCTV

456
00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:21,039
footage from nearby revealed that as the couple and the

457
00:24:21,079 --> 00:24:23,960
two dogs continued on the path, a herd of cows

458
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:30,000
approached them from behind, then accelerated and attacked. The two

459
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:32,160
were trampled, and in the process they let go of

460
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,319
the dog's leashes, and the dogs managed to run off

461
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:40,720
and escape injury, but unfortunately, Michael sustained fatal chest injuries

462
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:42,519
from the trampling and died at the scene.

463
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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

464
00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 1: Weeks later, Teresa awoke in a hospital with no memory

465
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,599
of how she got there or what happened.

466
00:24:51,799 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 2: Oh God.

467
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: The cows had fractured a few of her ribs and

468
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,799
crushed part of her spine, leaving her permanently paralyzed from

469
00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:03,799
the waist down. She said to investigators, quote, I was

470
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,559
just really confused. I couldn't work out why I was there,

471
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and my daughters eventually had to explain that they had

472
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lost their dad.

473
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 2: Oh fuck.

474
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,559
Speaker 1: Along with losing her husband and her ability to walk,

475
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,480
Theresa had to quit her job at the Lead City Council.

476
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,920
In a victim statement, she said, quote having to cope

477
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,119
with two traumas has been very difficult. I am paralyzed

478
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,759
from the waist down. I now have to use a wheelchair.

479
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,079
This has transformed my life beyond anything I could ever imagine.

480
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,359
The course of my life and my late husband's has

481
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,720
been thrown into great turmoil as a result of the

482
00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:42,079
farmer's negligence. Also, for those wondering, the dogs were found

483
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,640
hours after the attack by neighbor and are completely fine.

484
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 2: Gut.

485
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: The owner of the cows and the farm, Martin Mitchell,

486
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,039
was brought to trial for Teresa's injuries in Michael's death.

487
00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:56,279
An investigation by the Health and Safety Executive found that

488
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,000
Martin Mitchell had failed to ensure the cows were suitably

489
00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:03,519
segregated from the right of way. They stated, quote readily

490
00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:08,279
available HSE guidances states that where possible, cows with calves

491
00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:10,160
should not be graised in fields where there is a

492
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,200
public right of way. Where this is not possible, they

493
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,039
should be segregated from the footpath by appropriate fencing and

494
00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:19,880
where it is reasonable to do so. Upon investigation into

495
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,119
the attack on Michael and Theresa, two other people came

496
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,759
forward and said that four months before Michael's death and

497
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,759
the attack on Teresa, they had also been chased by

498
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:33,720
cows in the same field. John Burgess said he suffered

499
00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:38,039
four broken ribs and quote quite severe bruising after being

500
00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:41,480
attacked in June twenty twenty. He said he hadn't realized

501
00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:43,640
the cattle were there because it had been foggy that day.

502
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:48,599
The second person charged, Natalie Bain, said she had quote

503
00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:51,319
never been back in the field since a terrifying near

504
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,720
miss with stampeding cattle and August of twenty twenty. Both

505
00:26:55,839 --> 00:26:58,480
John and Natalie had leashed dogs with them at the time.

506
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,359
Martin She'll pleaded guilty to breaching Section three of the

507
00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:08,359
Health and Safety at Work Act nineteen seventy four. He

508
00:27:08,519 --> 00:27:12,000
was given a six month suspended prison sentence and was

509
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,319
ordered to pay a five hundred pounds fine and make

510
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,319
a contribution of thirty five hundred pounds towards costs.

511
00:27:19,079 --> 00:27:24,559
Speaker 2: That's it, Yeah, damn all right, hey, I mean I

512
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,400
mean they have, you know, public health care, so I

513
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,920
guess the cost to her definitely wasn't what would be

514
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,000
in America obviously hopefully.

515
00:27:31,519 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

516
00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:36,279
Speaker 2: I guess the payment for injuries, like you know, medical costs,

517
00:27:36,319 --> 00:27:38,559
and maybe as high, but you'd think he'd give up

518
00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:42,400
a little bit more. Is insurance or something? Yeah, damn?

519
00:27:43,079 --> 00:27:45,599
Speaker 1: Or maybe like lending to funeral costs or like cost

520
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,599
of transitioning. I don't know. Yeah, I mean she lost

521
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,000
her job and her husband. Ye other source of income

522
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:53,880
is dead, Oh my god.

523
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:54,599
Speaker 2: Yeah.

524
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: And then actually, before we get to her next story,

525
00:27:59,039 --> 00:28:28,599
let's take a quick ad, all right, and then another

526
00:28:28,799 --> 00:28:33,240
story out of the UK from twenty twenty two. On

527
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,160
September ninth of that year, twenty twenty two, twenty nine

528
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,599
year old Rebecca Morris, also known as Becky, was walking

529
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,880
her dog, a Chihuahua named Zero. What do have pictures of?

530
00:28:44,599 --> 00:28:49,799
In a field at Warwick Bridge Farm in Little Thorpe, Leicestershire, England.

531
00:28:50,119 --> 00:28:53,880
Little Thorpe, very cute, very quaint sounding place for what's

532
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,079
about to happen. It was just before nine pm when

533
00:28:57,119 --> 00:28:59,519
she was walking, and we know this because she took

534
00:28:59,559 --> 00:29:01,839
a picture some cows in the field and texted to

535
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,200
her mom with the caption cows with a zee, but

536
00:29:06,319 --> 00:29:09,240
that was the last message her family received for hours.

537
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,240
After becoming concerned, her family went to find her and

538
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,079
found her on the ground in the field with fatal

539
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,279
injuries to her chest.

540
00:29:17,559 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: Oh no.

541
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,359
Speaker 1: They attempted life saving measures, but Becky went into cardiac

542
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,440
arrest and passed away at ten twenty one pm. Her

543
00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:30,279
little dog Zero was found nearby in the street, unharmed,

544
00:29:30,599 --> 00:29:34,680
still wearing his leash. A forensic pathologist who completed the

545
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,559
post mortem exam on Becky said that she died from

546
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,960
abdominal injuries quote consistent with a large, heavy creature, and

547
00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:46,559
that there were hoof prints on her chest. The inquest

548
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,680
heard that Becky's body had been found quote some way

549
00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:52,480
from the designated footpath, but no one was really sure,

550
00:29:52,519 --> 00:29:55,200
like why she deviated from the footpath that much. I

551
00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:58,279
was probably being chased by fucking cows, That's kind of

552
00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:00,519
what I was thinking. Yeah, Like there was something maybe

553
00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:02,279
making her uncomfortable and that's why she kind of went

554
00:30:02,359 --> 00:30:06,640
off the path. But toxicology reports showed that she had

555
00:30:06,759 --> 00:30:10,480
quote a social level of alcohol in her system. I

556
00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:14,799
have no idea what it wants. But they also said

557
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,640
alongside that there was her prescription medication like in her system,

558
00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:22,440
but a doctor said that that wouldn't have really had

559
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,440
any impact on her actions, So take that with what

560
00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:30,000
you will. In a statement by her family during the trial,

561
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,279
they said Becky was quote an all around beautiful person.

562
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,519
Becky was always there to help others, even when she

563
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,240
was unwell herself. She loved all animals and was vegan.

564
00:30:40,759 --> 00:30:43,799
She loved zero, her chihuahua, and her rabbits. They were

565
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,839
her babies. Upon conclusion of the trial, her family said,

566
00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:50,400
quote nothing will help us overcome the loss of Becky.

567
00:30:50,759 --> 00:30:53,440
We are satisfied with the conclusion which the jury have found.

568
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,400
Our beautiful daughter, Becky went for a short walk with

569
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,000
her chihuahua on a summer's evening and never came home.

570
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:03,599
Becky's death was preventable. The law needs to change the

571
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,359
rules and guidelines in place and need to be more robust,

572
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,079
and it needs to be enforced. This is happening time

573
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,640
and time again. How many more people have to be killed?

574
00:31:13,319 --> 00:31:16,920
End quote? So from what I found, this investigation still

575
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,680
seems to be ongoing because evidence was also given that

576
00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:23,119
this herd of cattle were typically easy going and non aggressive,

577
00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:26,720
but regardless. The Health and Safety executives sent the owners

578
00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:29,599
of the cattle notice legally requiring them to take action

579
00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:32,640
against the herd. So the owners put up an electric

580
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,359
fence to separate them from the public.

581
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 2: Well that's good, a little late, but.

582
00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, So literally all of the stories we just talked

583
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,720
about were from the UK. All of them included dogs.

584
00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:50,160
All of them included being on like public property so

585
00:31:50,319 --> 00:31:55,079
to speak, and farmers not separating their cattle from the public.

586
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,319
And it was all cows, and it seemed to be

587
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,519
all cows that had calves present. So it seems like

588
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:07,039
the obvious answer is that dogs are instigating. But in

589
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,599
Becky's case, her family said, because of how tall the

590
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,519
grass was and how small zero is, it's very unlikely

591
00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:16,920
the cattle even saw zero to begin with.

592
00:32:17,359 --> 00:32:19,799
Speaker 2: They can smell the smell dogs.

593
00:32:20,839 --> 00:32:21,279
Speaker 1: I guess.

594
00:32:21,519 --> 00:32:24,319
Speaker 2: Also, why are we putting walking paths through pastures?

595
00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: Like that's what I want to I don't understand.

596
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,039
Speaker 2: I guess like public grazing land is a thing here too,

597
00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:32,240
like and I don't see a lot of walking paths

598
00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:34,400
going through them. Obviously it's a much big area, but

599
00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:37,720
public freezing is a fairly normal thing.

600
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,079
Speaker 1: Well, and I'm not sure how it works in the UK,

601
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,400
like public grazing. It seems like these people were walking

602
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,440
on public land, so like, are you allowed to have

603
00:32:47,599 --> 00:32:50,200
your cattle on public land? But it seems like there

604
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,279
are rules in place that you're supposed to keep them separate.

605
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,519
Speaker 2: But yeah, so I don't know, how are you supposed

606
00:32:56,519 --> 00:32:57,119
to put up a fence?

607
00:32:57,279 --> 00:32:59,039
Speaker 1: Like that's what I mean, That's what I don't understand.

608
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's obviously it's a whole different, you know,

609
00:33:02,519 --> 00:33:05,799
system over there, so it's hard to for us to know. Yeah,

610
00:33:06,039 --> 00:33:09,720
I don't know why you would put a walking path through,

611
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,960
like because at no point has there been any like, oh,

612
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:14,680
the cow was born supposed to be there, Like, no,

613
00:33:14,839 --> 00:33:19,240
they're they're supposed to be there, that's where they fucking eat.

614
00:33:20,279 --> 00:33:21,480
So I don't know. It's just weird.

615
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting that most of these stories were from

616
00:33:26,119 --> 00:33:28,680
the UK as well, because as I was looking up

617
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,559
stuff for this episode, I like, I found some stories

618
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,440
out of the US, but they were like overwhelmingly from

619
00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:40,000
the UK, So it seems like it's specific. The UK

620
00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:44,519
has like a consistent problem with people walking, and cow's

621
00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:46,960
just attacking people who are walking, like there were so

622
00:33:47,039 --> 00:33:50,319
many more stories I didn't write down that we could

623
00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:53,480
have talked about. But yeah, it's crazy.

624
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, in my experience here, I don't have

625
00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:00,839
a whole lot o desire to be anywhere near cows,

626
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:03,880
like especially when they're out just growing in a field

627
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,880
like we have it. I have no point, am I

628
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,000
were like, I'm going to go running through this fucking path.

629
00:34:08,039 --> 00:34:10,480
It's like a joke in like movies, a lot of

630
00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:12,159
popular movies. It's like, oh, we're going to run to

631
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,800
this log of pasture and fuck with the cows and

632
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,519
they're going to chase us around like it's a known thing,

633
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:19,440
like they don't want to get looking around. Yeah, it's

634
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:23,360
in cars, like in the movie cars getting chased around

635
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,239
by a tractor cow. It's yeah, I mean it just

636
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,920
seems like pretty obvious. Don't go messing around, or don't

637
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,239
you don't want to be around the nine hundred pound animal.

638
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,639
Speaker 1: See, But in these cases it's not their faulty didn't

639
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:39,920
know the cattle were there.

640
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,599
Speaker 2: Well again, if it's public grazing land, yeah, but also

641
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,119
if it's a public walking path's so true, so true,

642
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:49,920
so true, so true. Yeah, that seems where where my

643
00:34:50,559 --> 00:34:52,719
question is like why would there be a walking path?

644
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like a more systemic issue of why

645
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,239
are we putting our walking paths? But also the UK

646
00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:03,480
is like there's a ton of farmland and field, so

647
00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:05,920
I don't know if it's maybe just there's literally no

648
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,480
other space to put your walking paths or what, but

649
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,000
clearly it is a systemic issue and people are dying

650
00:35:12,199 --> 00:35:16,239
because of it at like a pretty alarming rate. Yeah,

651
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,360
there's been So if you go to that website, the

652
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,199
Killer Cow's website, they have a huge collection of stories

653
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,800
from the past I'd say like ten years of people

654
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,599
like writing in like hey, I was attacked by this

655
00:35:28,679 --> 00:35:31,519
cow and got like broken ribs, or they talk about

656
00:35:31,519 --> 00:35:35,079
people dying, and Becky's family actually wrote into the website

657
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:39,760
telling her story. So it's if you're in the area

658
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,360
and you're like worried about this kind of thing, it's

659
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,360
a good resource, I guess to kind of keep an

660
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,719
eye on where things are happening. But they're trying to

661
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,199
do more outreach on like changing laws and things like

662
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,840
that to enforce not having cows just able to go

663
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,400
after people who are walking.

664
00:35:54,559 --> 00:35:58,559
Speaker 2: But yeah, i'd also like to know that statistics sound

665
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,320
like how many obviously all the ones we just talked

666
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,559
about had dogs, About how many in total involved having

667
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:05,159
a dog?

668
00:36:05,639 --> 00:36:08,039
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I mean there was another story that I

669
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,679
didn't like write all the notes down on, but there

670
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,400
was like a seventy something year old man who was

671
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,159
just crossing a street. A cow had escaped a market

672
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,519
and just killed him and then ran off, like it

673
00:36:18,599 --> 00:36:20,840
just trampled him to death and ran off. Yeah, so

674
00:36:21,079 --> 00:36:23,599
it and he was just walking across the street. No dog,

675
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:24,760
just a dude.

676
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: So they're prey animals, like they when they freak out,

677
00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:32,079
fight or flight, and sometimes the flight happens to be

678
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,880
through somebody. Well, I mean in that instance of the

679
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,039
guy being trampled, it like specifically like killed, I'm coming

680
00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:39,360
after you.

681
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, for like no reason.

682
00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 2: They are big, dumb animals. I don't trust them.

683
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,039
Speaker 1: And in this episode we're just this is just talking

684
00:36:47,039 --> 00:36:51,199
about cows like female cattle. This isn't even talking about bulls,

685
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,199
Like we could have a whole other episode on bulls,

686
00:36:53,199 --> 00:36:55,800
which I'm sure we will hole their episode on horses

687
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,079
and pigs like we this could be a big rabbit hole.

688
00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:02,199
Speaker 2: That we jumped down that Yeah, pigs would be scary,

689
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,480
big and smart and scary.

690
00:37:05,159 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: Well, I was so. In researching for this, I read

691
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,559
something that was like, yeah, it's hard to really ascertain,

692
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,840
like how often pigs kill people because they also will

693
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:14,239
eat them.

694
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,639
Speaker 2: Oh Jesus, we've gone wild board before, right we have.

695
00:37:20,159 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: We also did cover a story of a guy who

696
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,719
got mauled by his pig. Actually, no, it was a warthog.

697
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,119
Never mind, Yeah, close enough.

698
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,519
Speaker 2: Oh God, they're all pigs, yeah, pigs and pigs a pig. No,

699
00:37:32,679 --> 00:37:34,679
it's just cows are scary. I don't know. I don't,

700
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:34,960
I don't.

701
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,639
Speaker 1: I don't like you don't like cows.

702
00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 2: I mean I like cows from a distance, like driving

703
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,280
by and yelling cows like about the window. I like that.

704
00:37:44,159 --> 00:37:46,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is the human urge to just like yell

705
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:47,800
cows at cows?

706
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 2: They're cows.

707
00:37:49,519 --> 00:37:51,760
Speaker 1: They know that, do they fair?

708
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 2: All? Right?

709
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: So before we go, there is one more aspect of

710
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,760
this that I want to touch on. Aside from cows

711
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,480
attacking you, there of course other ways who can be

712
00:38:04,519 --> 00:38:08,119
harmed by them, and that is especially through zoonotic disease.

713
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,239
There's one in particular that's a huge concern right now,

714
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,559
not just for cattle, but for a lot of wild

715
00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:17,599
animal species, and it is looking like it's coming to

716
00:38:17,679 --> 00:38:22,320
humans more as well, and that is highly pathogenic avian

717
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,440
influenza also known as HPAI, the bird flu or H

718
00:38:26,559 --> 00:38:30,960
five N one. This is not brand new like H

719
00:38:31,039 --> 00:38:34,639
five N one. There's been outbreaks before. Bird flu has

720
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,400
been around for a long time, but the specific strain

721
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,920
that we're talking about now has been really scary frankly

722
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,800
for the past year. Nick, have you heard anything about

723
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:43,960
the bird flu recently?

724
00:38:44,039 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 2: No, I don't think I have.

725
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: So that's why I want to talk about it, because

726
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,159
I mean, I'm also in a conservation medicine class right now,

727
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,400
so we're like, we're talking about zoonotic diseases and like

728
00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:56,880
the interface between humans and wild life and domestic animals

729
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,840
and how those are transmitted. But I'm also working with

730
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,920
wild animals. So this has been like a huge topic

731
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,480
for us, but I think, like the general public, it's

732
00:39:06,559 --> 00:39:09,039
not as common knowledge currently, so I wanted to get

733
00:39:09,079 --> 00:39:10,559
into it a little bit just so people can stay

734
00:39:10,559 --> 00:39:14,559
informed as to what's going on. The most recent outbreak

735
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,400
of bird flu in cattle was first reported on March

736
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,000
twenty fifth, twenty twenty four. And this is the first

737
00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:26,320
time the bird flu has been documented in cattle. Oh

738
00:39:26,639 --> 00:39:30,440
really yeah, so it has made the jump from birds

739
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,480
to cattle dan which is alarming. Since twenty twenty two, though,

740
00:39:34,639 --> 00:39:38,079
the USDA's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service so APHIS

741
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,840
has detected this virus in over two hundred mammals. The

742
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,159
CDC's page on the bird flu was most recently updated

743
00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:49,360
on February sixth, So really recently. And there are now

744
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:53,679
nine hundred and fifty nine dairy herds infected with HPAI

745
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:55,960
across sixteen states.

746
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,519
Speaker 2: And they just found the first case last year. Yeah,

747
00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:04,159
less than a year ago, eleven months ago. Yeah, Jesus yep.

748
00:40:05,559 --> 00:40:08,679
Speaker 1: On April first of twenty twenty four, the CDC confirmed

749
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:13,639
one human HPAI infection in a person with exposure to

750
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,079
dairy cows who are presumed to be infected with the

751
00:40:16,159 --> 00:40:19,960
virus in Texas. This is thought to be the first

752
00:40:20,199 --> 00:40:25,039
instance of likely mammal to human spread of the bird

753
00:40:25,079 --> 00:40:33,639
flu virus. While that's good, it's it's learning it's hoppin,

754
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:39,280
which is typically a sign that things are not going well. No. So,

755
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,920
mammals are typically infected when they eat infected birds, poultry,

756
00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:45,679
or other animals and or if they are exposed to

757
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,920
environments contaminated with the virus. And this is also why

758
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,719
we're seeing such high egg prices right now, because, as

759
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,079
you can imagine, for farmers who have like huge poultry flocks,

760
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,639
this is a crazy thing to manage against because it

761
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:04,119
is so infectious and deadly and can spread really, really easily,

762
00:41:04,159 --> 00:41:06,800
even if you're taking like some of the best precautions

763
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:07,920
that you can between birds.

764
00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, I feel like you just have to call

765
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,079
the entire flock.

766
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,079
Speaker 1: I thought, literally you literally do.

767
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:13,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

768
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,519
Speaker 1: So, the CDC says the risk to the general public

769
00:41:17,679 --> 00:41:20,320
is low right now, but for people who work closely

770
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,159
with animals that could be infected, we are at higher risk.

771
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,320
And I say we because even for people who work

772
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,440
with captive animals like in a zoo like I do,

773
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,039
or a research setting, there is a risk. This is

774
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:34,519
a huge topic at our facility right now because we

775
00:41:34,639 --> 00:41:37,880
have a lot of birds of prey and two mountain lions,

776
00:41:38,599 --> 00:41:40,480
which is a concern because there have been a lot

777
00:41:40,519 --> 00:41:43,039
of animals at zoo's dying from the bird flu, like

778
00:41:43,159 --> 00:41:46,639
one animal sanctuary in Washington that lost half of their

779
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,800
animals to the virus. In December of twenty twenty four,

780
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,599
including four mountain lions and one tiger, and none of

781
00:41:53,679 --> 00:41:56,920
their animals had direct contact with each other, like obviously

782
00:41:57,039 --> 00:41:59,079
within one exhibit, if they were housed together they did,

783
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,400
but like the tiger, didn't have any contact with the

784
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:02,760
birds or the mountain lions.

785
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: No.

786
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: In fact, what led people to discover the virus and

787
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,119
cattle in the first place last year was actually the

788
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,960
death of barn cats, which is even more reason to

789
00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:19,400
keep your cats inside. There have been reports of domestic

790
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,000
cats dying from it because they also were eating like

791
00:42:22,119 --> 00:42:25,239
a raw food diet. So even if you keep your

792
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,119
cat fully indoors, maybe don't feed them rough food right now.

793
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:28,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

794
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,119
Speaker 1: Signs of HPAI and cats include fever, lethargy, heavy discharge

795
00:42:34,159 --> 00:42:37,719
from the eyes and the nose, respiratory distress, and neurological issues.

796
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,519
But of course these can also be symptoms of other

797
00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:44,000
things like rabies or distemper So if you're seeing any

798
00:42:44,039 --> 00:42:46,320
sort of illness from your cat, contact EVET.

799
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,199
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's good advice in general.

800
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:53,039
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, according to the CDC quote, sick animals maybe

801
00:42:53,079 --> 00:42:56,280
able to transmit influenza virus to people in their saliva,

802
00:42:56,639 --> 00:43:01,159
feces or droppings, and other bodily fluids. Human infections can

803
00:43:01,199 --> 00:43:03,280
occur when the virus is inhaled or gets into a

804
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,800
person's eyes, nose, or mouth. This can happen when the

805
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,360
virus is in the air in droplets or dust and

806
00:43:10,519 --> 00:43:13,239
a person breathes it in, or when a person touches

807
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,880
something that has virus on it and then touches their mouth, eyes,

808
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,760
or nose. The reported signs and symptoms of bird flu

809
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,719
virus infections and humans have ranged from no symptoms or

810
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:30,159
mild too severe. These symptoms could include eye redness, so conjunctivitis,

811
00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:35,840
mild flu like, upper respiratory symptoms, pneumonia requiring hospitalization, a

812
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,519
fever so temperature of one hundred degrees fahrenheit or greater

813
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,719
or thirty seven point eight degrees celsius, or feeling feverish, cough,

814
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,079
sore throat, runnier, stuff he knows, muscle or body aches, headaches, fatigue,

815
00:43:48,119 --> 00:43:51,119
shortness of breath or difficulty breathing, and less common signs

816
00:43:51,159 --> 00:43:55,880
and symptoms include diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, or seizures, but a

817
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,119
fever may not always be present. I feel like it's

818
00:43:58,159 --> 00:44:00,719
always so hard when symptoms are out because I'm like,

819
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,840
I have stuff. He knows every day, my body hurts

820
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:03,280
all the time.

821
00:44:03,599 --> 00:44:05,119
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, like, how is this any different

822
00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:06,480
than just the normal flu?

823
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: Like I mean I think, like, yeah, valid point. But

824
00:44:12,159 --> 00:44:16,639
the concern, and similar to like what made COVID nineteen

825
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:21,000
a pandemic, is its ability to spread and mutate quickly.

826
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we different species immunization to it or are

827
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,400
you know, immune systems aren't built up to fight specifically

828
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:29,519
this virus. Now I get that.

829
00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:33,639
Speaker 1: There's also no vaccine, so obviously there's a flu vaccine,

830
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,880
but it does not protect you against the bird flu.

831
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of flues out there, right,

832
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,159
It's like the flu vaccine doesn't cover all of them,

833
00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:42,719
so even when you get it, you're still at risk.

834
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,960
So yep, no, that makes sense. But so when those

835
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,639
animals and organ had Washington, when those that was damn weird,

836
00:44:50,679 --> 00:44:52,719
how I get the wrong statem? I'm so close? Yeah,

837
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,719
So when they all died, like did all the meat

838
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,719
come from the same facility? Is that how all of

839
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,400
them got killed? Like they all caught it from the

840
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,239
same packaging facility or something.

841
00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I'm almost inclined to say no,

842
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,119
because then I think we would have had more information

843
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,800
from like other people who had used that distributor for me,

844
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,960
you know what I mean? Oh yeah, yeah, what I'm

845
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,920
assuming is and the biggest concern, which I'm about to

846
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,840
do like a whole literature review on for my conservation

847
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,480
medical class, because this is what we have to do,

848
00:45:24,599 --> 00:45:27,320
like a semester long project, and mine is like the

849
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,239
interface of actual wild animals versus captive wild animals like

850
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,159
in my case, the mountain lions birds of prey, because

851
00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:36,440
for our mountain lions, like, yeah, there's a roof on

852
00:45:36,519 --> 00:45:39,599
their enclosure, but birds can still poop in there, and

853
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,480
small birds like songbirds can still get in there, and

854
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,320
the mountain lions could kill them and get it that way.

855
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,400
And then for other birds like our birds of prey

856
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,639
who are outside, like we have a bunch of turkeys

857
00:45:50,679 --> 00:45:53,039
that walk around and can easily go up to the exhibits,

858
00:45:53,079 --> 00:45:55,079
and then same thing. Other birds can get in through

859
00:45:55,119 --> 00:45:59,400
the roof or poop into the enclosure. So it's for

860
00:45:59,559 --> 00:46:02,679
facility like ours who are smaller or just you know,

861
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,599
other facilities who don't have the money or the means

862
00:46:05,679 --> 00:46:08,960
to like move their birds inside. And also like we're

863
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,599
a zoo. The whole point is the public coming to

864
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,000
look at these things and learn about them. So it's

865
00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:16,880
a really hard thing to navigate and to protect your

866
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,159
animals against when you're like the birds could go anywhere,

867
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,639
Like you're fighting against birds that can just do whatever

868
00:46:23,679 --> 00:46:24,639
and go anywhere.

869
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,159
Speaker 2: Just fly around, do whatever, Yeah they want.

870
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 1: I think that's what makes it so hard with the

871
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:33,159
bird flu specifically too, is because I mean in humans realistically, nowadays,

872
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,360
a virus can travel across the world in like twelve

873
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:41,119
hours yep, and birds can go anywhere. So I think

874
00:46:41,159 --> 00:46:43,519
that's what makes it so scary. But I don't mean

875
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:46,119
to be an alarmist or scare people. It's just something

876
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,039
to keep our eye on, because I think if COVID

877
00:46:50,079 --> 00:46:52,239
taught us anything it's that we should be more proactive

878
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,480
trying to stop pandemics rather than reactive. So if we

879
00:46:55,519 --> 00:46:58,199
could all keep our eye on it and watch for signs,

880
00:46:58,320 --> 00:46:58,840
it'd be great.

881
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. The scary part to me is definitely the mammal

882
00:47:01,559 --> 00:47:04,800
to mammal yeah effect, or the change it's head that

883
00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:06,119
that's that's not good.

884
00:47:06,559 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, swapping host species is always like a huge red flag.

885
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

886
00:47:12,159 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: So anyways, that was and just a short little tangent

887
00:47:18,039 --> 00:47:23,119
into a highly pythogenic even influenza. And yeah, I'm hoping

888
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,000
we can do some more like domestic species coming up.

889
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:27,760
Speaker 2: I don't know.

890
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 1: I feel like we cover a lot of wild animals

891
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,840
because those are like the like ooh so scary being

892
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,239
attacked by I almost said that, Yeah, I mean realistically,

893
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,400
like those are the stories that like get people's attention.

894
00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:39,760
But I mean, how many people are killed by fucking

895
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,840
horses a lot? So yeah, we'll get into it.

896
00:47:43,199 --> 00:47:45,639
Speaker 2: Have ever shown you that video of like the two

897
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,880
horses that are there, there's a stud about to mount

898
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:50,679
and then the female horse kicks them in the head

899
00:47:51,039 --> 00:47:52,440
and kills them. Yeah, you have to show me that

900
00:47:53,039 --> 00:47:56,320
fucking nuts terrifying. It's your gunshot. Yeah.

901
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: Oh have you ever seen also on Nature's Metal, because

902
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:00,920
I've that's where that video is from.

903
00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: Yes, it is.

904
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,679
Speaker 1: Did you see the video of the horse that picks

905
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,840
up a sheep and just throws it in the air

906
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,400
and kill it, plays with it. It haunts my nightmares.

907
00:48:11,519 --> 00:48:13,960
Horses are so scary, No.

908
00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:19,079
Speaker 2: They're They're terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. Yeah, so strong, impressive. Okay, well,

909
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,400
maybe next we do a horse. Episode's gonna say, Yeah,

910
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,800
it seems we were in that way where we done Moose.

911
00:48:24,119 --> 00:48:25,719
I keep asking this, have we done moose yet?

912
00:48:26,199 --> 00:48:29,199
Speaker 1: We did our very first bonus episode, we did moose

913
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,639
and deer, and people keep asking about moose and deer,

914
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,559
so well, definitely we can touch on them again.

915
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,119
Speaker 2: I knew, I knew that I was testing you. Yeah.

916
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,559
Hm cool. I have a great memory of all of

917
00:48:39,639 --> 00:48:40,719
the things we've talked about.

918
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 1: Nick. We could barely remember our last episode.

919
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,679
Speaker 2: I can barely remember why it did like two days ago.

920
00:48:46,079 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Well, thank you all so much for listening.

921
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,760
Thank you for keeping up with us. I know it's

922
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,119
our output of episodes is random now, but I appreciate

923
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:28,199
you hanging in there. Oh. I did want to say

924
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,639
because someone messaged me like i' miss hearing your voice,

925
00:49:30,639 --> 00:49:32,000
which is first of all, so nice.

926
00:49:32,039 --> 00:49:32,280
Speaker 2: Thank you.

927
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: I for the first time last week, UH streamed to

928
00:49:38,559 --> 00:49:40,559
Twitch a gaming session.

929
00:49:40,599 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 2: I did.

930
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,519
Speaker 1: Really Yeah, So I if anyone is into like watching

931
00:49:45,519 --> 00:49:47,840
people play video games, I have a Twitch that I'll

932
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:52,559
link at the episode description. My username is bray Bashing,

933
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,159
which I have come to find out, sounds like gay bashing,

934
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,800
which was not my intention when I made that tag

935
00:50:01,079 --> 00:50:03,400
or like that user name whatever. When I was like

936
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,159
twelve years old. My last name is Bray, so I

937
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,840
was like, oh, that's so cool. I'm like bashing the competition.

938
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:09,760
So don't get that idea.

939
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,519
Speaker 2: Is that like a thing? Like, is that like a

940
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,840
term that people use? It is?

941
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,760
Speaker 1: I apparently, and I didn't. I didn't know, So just

942
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,440
know that it's it's not that yeah anyways, I in

943
00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:25,760
that the episode description. Otherwise, you can find links to

944
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,480
our social media and our website in our episode description

945
00:50:28,599 --> 00:50:32,079
as well. Thank you to my good friend and second

946
00:50:32,079 --> 00:50:34,320
grade husband Joshuall for making our intro music and for

947
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teaching me how to stream a twitch in the first place.

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Thank you so much to Jesse for editing. And also

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if you are going back and listening to older episodes,

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I'm not sure how it works if you have the

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episodes downloaded or not, but Jesse is helping us kind

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of like revamp older episodes and update the yeah, update

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the audio levels because I know some people have complained

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about that. I totally get it, So thank you Jesse

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for doing that, and we'll be back at some point

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with the next episode, Bruce Bye.