Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and we are not in Kansas anymore.
We're taking a stroll down a Pandora. We are here
for a very special Geek First review episode. I am
one of your hosts, the drugged up Colonel Kirkland Patzer.
Speaker 2: I'm the local tale taylor Field.
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, just the two of us. There's been
some deaths along this Avatar review. No, not actually deaths.
Travis and Dylan.
Speaker 2: Chose side.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they portrayed as the great Colonel would say. So yeah,
just the two of us, We're gonna have a fun
I think fun review. Episode just got out of the
theater and we're just gonna get right into it because
it's late and uh yeah so so so yeah, no
plugs at all. We're just jumping right into the Avatar
fire and ash spoilers review. Of course, we'll start with
spoiler free at first, and then we'll take a little
ad break and then a full deep dive into spoilers
and unravel this James Cameron possible masterpiece. We don't know
we'll get going with that, but uh, I guess I'll
start with you, Taylor Fel, because I've no one else
to really throw it to here. First off, I gotta
ask you, did you rewatch the other movies in anticipation
for this? Like how you didn't have to? Okay, you've
probably seen them many times.
Speaker 2: That first one is like Ingrain in my mind. Yeah,
I know quite well. The second one I've I've watched
it a few times, but it's it's the second one
is it's not like as memorable like the first one is.
I think it's just very simple that it's it's it's
memorable in a simple way. But that first one is
memorable and just like a wow and a ooh factor
for different reasons.
Speaker 1: Probably seen it a lot more, right, also because it's older.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, I think said have not seen the
other two not like you, but I'm nonetheless, I was
excited getting into this one because it's Avatar. And yes,
it's definitely a sooner than average release for this movie,
because hey, they filmed them back to back, so we
don't have to wait another ten, fifteen years or whatever
for the sequel. This one had a would be a
good way to pitch it now, Travis, if you're listening,
you're not gonna like this, so just channel it out.
Just block it out. But the comparison here, I'm gonna say, like,
you have your part one, which is Avatar one, and
then you have your Part one, which is part of
the care being cursed to Black Pearl. Then you have
dead Man's Chest which is Part two. You have Avatar
Way the Water, that's Part two. But then even though
it's the sequel, it starts off on like this is
a brand new story and it feels like a part one,
And then you get the third one, which is at
World's End, and this one Fire and Ash, which feels
like the part it's that part two to the part one.
Does that make sense? Where you have the first one
which is its own story, and you.
Speaker 1: Have lost me half way. I'm sorry, all right, So
here you.
Speaker 2: Have the first movie, and then here you have movie
two and three. Two and three are both like back
to back like Part one and two kind of, I
see what you're saying. And then Part one is just
on on its own, its own story. It's own thing,
right of course, and I don't know what it is.
But I find myself not always liking that kind of factor.
I like when the movies are more and I'm trying
to think of another way to compare it, maybe again
Lord of the Rings. Here, each movie feels very much
like it's obviously a continuation, but it stands up on
its own. And I feel like if Avatar One maybe
planted the seeds a little bit more for where this
story is now, then i'd and I'm probably just really
nippicking it. So I guess you're coming from though, Yeah,
that's it, because when we get into this story, I
don't know if I'm still really feeling this story, because
I think that this took a lot of things from
the first movie and a lot of things from the
second movie and just mushed it all together. I think, well,
you know, we've seen all this before, We've seen them
do this, we know what their plan is, we know
what's going to go down here, and I mean, that's
just what happens. We get a few new revelations, a
few new things that they feature, which is kind of cool.
But as much as I liked it, I feel like, oh,
there's maybe a little bit more that they could have done.
It could stand up on its own, because even I
can't I can't say that because it's a spoiler, but
I feel like the way the movie kind of concludes,
and when we get into that third act, I feel
like we've been here already in the way of the water,
like this is the exact same sequence, right, So yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's just gonna be the pattern of
these Avatar movies. I feel like, you know, I yeah,
maybe i'll say that for spoilers, but yeah, I think
it's just I'm not even gonna say I'm right, I'll
hold my tongue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know that aside though, getting in the
theater there was a lot of movie magic, because like
we're pulling the parking lot, I'm seeing tons of people
walking in, and then we get into the theater and
it's like they got like I couldn't believe it. They
had Wicked popcorn buckets, the Emerald City Castle popcorn buckets.
They had Utopia popcorn buckets, and then they had the
Pandora ones where they had like the winged creature thing
they had him and that was a bucket for popcorn.
Muck Tau. This is the lesser ones, the blue ones. Okay,
but he was huge. He was like he was bigger
than my kid, Like he was fucking huge. And so
then I was like, Okay, Madison look at the got
for bottles. They had two types of bottles. They had
this one with the blue guy blue dragon, the other
one with the white dragons on there from the ash people.
Also Madison. Madison picked this one, so I was like, okay,
let's get it. It's twenty five dollars Canadian. Fuck me.
But we get into the theater and I'm like, okay,
it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool, and Madison's like playing
around with them. She's like, oh, Taylor, there's a thing
on the bottom here for batteries. Maybe we can turn
it on. So I pulled the tab and then it's
like blows up. Yeah, like clicks on the Holy ship.
Speaker 1: Like this was like, so was your theater just really bright?
Everybody had their cups lit up.
Speaker 2: I think I was the only one who had a
cop to be honest.
Speaker 1: Okay, but.
Speaker 2: It was funny because we did get an applause when
the movie concluded. People were applause oh yeah. And then
as we're walking out, I saw I saw a bottle
of vodka empty, just on the seat, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people are getting sauced.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: Funny. But I went and saw this with Hidalgo and
he just came right from his Christmas party, so he
had a few. He definitely had had a few. I
p as in him. But uh, it was.
Speaker 2: Three D right for you?
Speaker 1: Yes it was three D. Did you not see in
three D?
Speaker 2: No, we saw it in three D. Yeah. I don't
think there's any two D showings, like.
Speaker 1: There actually is no there. There was a couple in
the small theater on the west side. I think there
were seven. I think those ones started at seven in
the small theater. And yeah, I normally would have would
have wanted to do that. And I can't believe I'm
saying this, Taylor, but if you are listening to this
and you have not seen this movie yet, go see
it in three D. It is actually so fucking amazing.
I I and like, you know that just visuals right now,
I'm speaking for specifically the three D. We've come a
long way tailor from the red and blue lensed spy
kids three D type movies where they're super gimmicky. You know,
there's always people reaching through the screen and it's like, oh,
look at that. It's three D. Like, we've come a
long way from this where I don't think this movie
really had any of those moments in it of like
over the top, like trying to make it seem like
it's protruding out. But with three D lens, this was
just such a fucking good looking movie. Like like, and
while I was watching it, I couldn't remember if the
second one look like this, if Waal the Water looked
like this, but just like the actual like fps and
the refresh rate of everything that was going on, it
looked like I was playing a brand new game on
my brand new monitor on like a really nice graphics card,
Like it just looks so smooth and so clear, and
I was just blown away. So I can't believe I'm
saying this. I am a big hater of three D,
but not when it comes to James Cameron Avatar three D.
This this movie was made for three D, and I
definitely think you should see it. And like just the
depth of field and everything, like everything that was going on,
like it just looked so amazing visually. I kind of
interjected your overall thoughts there, but I just I had
to get that out there, because yeah, speaking about three D,
if you have not the this movie and you're thinking
about going three D or two D, or if you're
a big hater of three D. I was like that
for sure, but specifically for this movie, I definitely think
you should be seeing it in three D.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that. I think all of
them a really really like good job being three D oriented,
and I think, oh, James Cameron is just personally limping
the three D market along, you know, like, I don't
think any other films are really doing three D much anymore.
I think Wicked maybe dead a few showings, but.
Speaker 1: What did we just see? I think Tron had a
three D.
Speaker 2: That's right? Which is it's fitting? I think when you're
dealing with movies like this, the three D makes sense.
And I guess that new Chris Pratt one where he's
being interrogated and has to prove his innocence all the chair,
it's that's.
Speaker 1: The World at War equivalent, right.
Speaker 2: Something like that. Yeah, that's a big three D push
twenty five dollars Canadian. There jer one cup, which is
an equivalent to eighteen dollars American.
Speaker 1: So oh man, that's nothing. Let's jump change.
Speaker 2: Let's jump change for that.
Speaker 1: You turned it off? Actually? Or did you just?
Speaker 2: I did? I turned it off and I spent it
a round. I don't want to kill the battery. I'm
gonna be, yeah, savoring that this economy.
Speaker 1: Come on, you spend twenty five bucks on night cantifoor batteries,
I know.
Speaker 2: Having a kid here by a dollar Navvy bottle cups. Yeah,
I trying to think anything else.
Speaker 1: Really like this overall.
Speaker 2: I liked it more than the second one. But I
don't think anything comes to that that first one for me,
I really don't.
Speaker 1: But that's fair.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm just a sucker for macdau and
all that shit. That's some good ship and good ship.
I really like the Coorgu character, although I just think
at the end of the day, you know, we've got
two movies of him and Navi form. His human form
is the best version of him. Although I will say,
like you just you get some of the Navvy jar
heads in here that are just it's so good, like
smile pitches and so all that ship that's just it's
really just cracks me up. But there's a few things
in this movie that I can see where if we
get that fourth one, that these characters will come back.
But there's other things that happen in this movie where
these characters just they they have major implications on the story,
but then they're just kind of gone and they're not
picked up. It'll be like halfway through the movie and
they're just they're gone. They're out of there, and they
but they played a pivotal role in the film with
their narrative and with the narrative of the other characters,
the main characters. So that's also kind of a shame.
And while you have a three and a half hour
period to work with, I do feel like some moments
were rushed. And again, I know I'm sounding very negative,
but it's not all negative, because again, the movie was
very beautiful, and you got some fake outs too. There
were some scenes which were emotional. I thought, holy fuck
twice they got me twice where I thought they're fucking
doing this shit. Holy shit. It went to a dark
place and it really caught me off guard and that
was not something I expected an avatar. So we'll bring
up those in the the spoiler portion. But yeah, I
think they took some bold swings and I think some
stuff worked for me and other things, you know, like
I can pass, I can I can get by because
at the end of the day, I still had a
good time in this, I will say, as far as
Spider goes for a character, I liked him a lot
more in this movie than the previous one.
Speaker 1: I agree. I agree. I was a big Spider hater
of Way of Water. And is that it? I'll that's
it transition in my overall thoughts. Yeah, I where should
I start? I guess I'll start with Spider because we
were kind of talking about that. Yeah. I well, actually no,
I'll start at the very beginning because today, I today
was the start of my Christmas vacation. I wrote a
quiz this morning at school and then I left. I
was home by like nine o'clock in the morning, so
it was a nice little start to my vacation. You know,
I knew we were seeing this today, and I'm like, well,
fuck it, I got time. Let's let's go to Pandora.
Let's leave Kansas, Let's go to Pandora. And I did
the double backtip, well triple actually I started with Avatar
and then the Way of Water and then going into
this and man, after I finished Way of Water, I
was like, I shouldn't have done that. I have like
a headache, I like felt awful, Like I don't know,
I think it was just too much Navi. Maybe back
to back. Like you said, though, I absolutely I stand
by that first movie. I still really really love it.
I think just also that being like the jumping into
this world and there's just so much like world building
set up, like every movie has world building is we
kind of go to different areas, but specifically that first one,
it's just introducing you to every concept, and I just
think it does everything better than every other iteration. So
I guess a little bit of a spoiler for my
thoughts here on this third movie does not top that
first one. It's just yeah, I defend that movie. I
think it is really really great, especially in comparison to
these other ones. Way of Water. I was really hot
on it initially. I hadn't rewatched it though since that
first theater viewing, and man did that go down in
rating overall, just on the rewatch. I think it was
just like, because I just watched the first one and
then watched the second one, there's just like, oh, let's
do this again. But in my opinion, just lesser and
I just didn't really love the characters. Jake, Suley and
Natieri take like a really big back seat in that
second movie. And I just, yeah, just want to rewatch.
I don't think I'm really gonna rewatch that movie unless
maybe I do the same thing again, like when the
next one comes out, you know, if this doesn't bomb,
which I don't think it will, and we do get
another Avatar movie, I think that's when I would probably
rewatch them again. But like, if I want to watch Avatar,
I think I'll just throw on that first movie again.
That's just kind of my thoughts that are on the
way of the water. But yeah, doing that back to
back and then going to this one, I was kind
of like, not the best headspace because I think I
was just too much, too much Pandora all at once.
But honestly, I had a good time with this movie.
I think I think it's very messy at times. I
think the dialogue is god awful atrocious. Many times I
was laughing out loud at scenes I shouldn't have been
because it was just like what the fuck are we
doing here? But I mean, I'm such a sucker for
like a good looking the theater going experience, and this
is the best looking movie I've ever seen, Like it
just looked so spectacular. Austin in the Chad's asking who
is this for? The there it goes for you, I
mean this is for Avatar fans or if you just
want like a big blockbuster eye candy type movie. I
think it's definitely for those types of individuals. I did
have a lot of fun with it. I think there
is a lot of like the repetition of like, Okay,
I feel like we've been here before, and let's just
try it again, because this is like the Avatar way now,
like this is the third movie, and it just seems
like we're kind of doing the same shit over and
over and over again. And for that reason, I think
that's kind of what makes me not want to rewatch
these specific ones, whereas the first one is just it
just does that concept the best out of all of them.
So that's kind of why I would lean just just
rewatching that first one. But but yeah, visually, it was
fucking amazing. I really liked this setup of a lot
of things are new antagonists is kind of introduced, like
I was really interested in this character. I feel like
major mispotential though with it, Like I think, what else
do I want to say? That kind of scurry around
some spoilers here, I feel like we're maybe picking up
like a certain plot point from the second movie, and
we just stretched into this movie, and I really didn't
think that was needed at all. Like I think if
we just act that completely out and we spent a
little bit more time maybe with the Ash people or
like just just other threats that I feel like are
a lot more important to the overall story of like Avatar,
the sky People versus the nove Like, I just feel
like we like threw in these side quests and it
just showed up like an hour of run time, where
I think we could have really spent that in better
strategic areas that would have just improved the movie overall.
And even if we did that, like, I still think
the dialogue is so bad. There's many like extended dialogue sequences.
It's supposed to be like rallying the troops, and I'm
just like, God, like, what are we doing here? This
is so ridiculous. I think Jake Souley peaked in the
first movie, Like I just think he's a fucking idiot
in in the second movie and the third movie. And
I can say that with confidence because I just watch
all of them today, so it's fresh in my mind.
But I just feel like he learns some major lessons
in that first movie and then he just kind of
like drops them off and like in that first movie
and he's just like a dumb jar head in the
second movie. And then that happens, You're like, Okay, like
some big moments have happened. Maybe he's gone through some
growth and learned and uh, just just changed his ways
from the second movie, even though I feel like he
should have done it in the first movie. Same shit
again in this movie, and like by the end of it,
I'm like, oh, okay, Like like I don't know. I
just think that characters for me at least peaked in
the first movie just for like overall like like clean
growth of the character. Like it just seems like, yeah,
let's just forget all that just to tell this specific story.
Naitiri is way better in this movie though, versus A
Way of Water. I think there's just so much more
for her to do, which is great. I was really
interested in the new I'll have to pull up her name.
I can't remember what it is for wrong. I think
it's her name. And the ash Lady, the big antagonist
on the cover, really cool character that I was really
really interested in. But I feel like we just there's
a lot of juice there that we just didn't really
squeeze out of the Orange corych Man. I love Korach.
I agree with you. I think the human version of
him is is peak. It helps that that is the
first from the first movie, which is like, I just
think that movie is so much better than these other ones.
But like he's just like a meme for me at
this point, Like I just love him so really good
stuff there. And for the other characters I don't really love.
I don't want to say too much about them because
that's when we kind of get into like the main
plot and just yeah, like that juice there.
Speaker 2: But.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, I don't really want to say
anything else beyond that. But I had a really fun
time with this movie, even though it is like very
dumb at times. I'm gonna be there absolutely day one
for the next Avatar and the one after that, like
I like, especially if they keep looking this good, like fuck, yeah,
I'm down, I'm eating my popcorn, I'm drinking my large,
my large drink like I'm I'm I'm having a good time.
My theater overall was I feel like kind of all
the same, Like I don't know, at least the people
that I was sitting around, like it was a pretty
bump in theater. Like like you said, I pulled up
party lots absolutely packed and I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot,
Like this is the turnout for Afturar movies, which is
kind of fun, and like people were kind of giggling
at the same stupid shit that I was giggling at.
So like, overall, I feel like everybody was kind of
having a good time with it. What else can I say? Uh, Yeah,
I don't know. I think that's kind of it. So
if you are a fan of these like, definitely I
would recommend it to them, if you're really like, you know,
there's a reason Travis and Dylan are not here for
this review it they absolutely hated well, I don't know
if I could speak fully for Travis, I feel like
I can, But for Dylan specifically, he absolutely hates these movies.
The dialogue, the script is just is just so off
for him. Fair Enough, I can totally understand that, but
I am a sucker for some good visuals and just
some stupid eye candy and action sequences were really really good. Yeah,
I don't know. I think the movie starts like pretty
damn good, with like an awesome action sequence, and even
in like the third act, like the final client, like
it's just it looks fucking amazing. There's so many parts
going on and it just looks phenomenal. So yeah, no,
I'm definitely definitely, yeah, definitely positive overall on it. And uh,
but I think the more I kind of think about
what the potential could have been for this, it's a
little bit upsetting just because yeah, it's just Christmas potential there.
But that's all I say. We'll just head right into
the spoiler spoiler section. Are you okay with that?
Speaker 2: I'm good with it.
Speaker 1: All right, We're gonna take our first ad break here
and then we'll be right back to unpack some some spoilers.
All right, we are back, and before we jump into
I'm just gonna do a very very quick shout out
to our Patrion producers A Brady April of Darkness, Jack Grant,
Sam super Bad, Mike Googga loves Me sixty nine, and
Charlie Randell Cocktail Klay John with no ahe Sam Green.
There at the very highest here of our Patreon. They're
the ones keeping the lights on and then yeah, allowing
us to do these shows and uh yeah, big shouts
out of them, get everything early, every exclusive on the
Patreon did it field? Where do you want to start?
I feel like I had something, but then once I
got railing on those Patreon shout outs, I kind of
lost my train of thoughts.
Speaker 2: So pick, I want to start with the the ash Klan.
This psachk so yes talk about that was her title
psych Yeah, talk about a toxic woman. Not to not
to pull that card, but uh, you know, this is
just Korch. He's getting there, he's interested. It's like this
is just all the signs like, hey, this is good
at the start, but man, it's gonna get fucking crazy.
But hey, CORGI really liked her, and uh.
Speaker 1: He you know he was getting that busting those come
on I was not that was not on my Bengal card.
I didn't think he was gonna be smashing some local
tail like nope. Like he was giving Jake Suley ship
for doing no back in that first movie.
Speaker 2: And it just kept getting better because all of a sudden,
he walks into this private meeting. He's like, I wasn't
summoned and he's all fucking painted up with them too.
Speaker 1: What a yeah, I mean well maybe I'll save the
chorus stuff for afterwards. But yeah, that the Ash People.
That was something like I will admit I feel like
I did see like a teaser trailer for this, but
I kind of went into it pretty blind, Like I
didn't watch a trailer right before I went saw it. Obviously,
I'd seen like the poster and like from the teaser,
just like like this the psych Lady, like just cool
looking visual. It's like, Okay, we're gonna have some antagonist
nave now, so that's kind of cool, and like introduction wise,
like when they ambush like our our wind convoy, like
that kind of opening main action sequence that was fucking awesome, man,
And like like I just like their design. I like
this main character. I thought she was really cool, and
like right off the hop, I was like, holy fuck,
Like this is gonna be way more of a step
up from that second movie, just just because like we're
actually diving into some really fun new antagonists as opposed
to just Quorich and the sky People just just just
being our main villains, which they still are of course,
and as the movie went on, that was the focus
was the Sky people, and like the Ash People took
a major step step to the side, like back seat
of that, which that's my biggest disappointment, the biggest disappointment
overall with like those characters in the Villains. Now we're
in the spoiler section now, so I can safety say this.
She didn't die, So they're still out there and still
you know, they can come back, which I'm gonna hold
out hope that we do some some good stuff with
them there. But I don't know, I kind of don't.
I don't have a lot of faith that they'll do.
Like the next movie is gonna be where we really
do the Ash people better, because like this one was
called Fire and Ash And if they don't, if like
if they're not the super main focus like they weren't
in this, I doubt it would be the same for
the for the next movie. Maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: What's gonna happen. She's gonna be pregnant, you know, Spider versus.
Speaker 1: Oh man, you're so righteous. That's one hundred percent gonna
be the fuck I'd pizza bet anyone on that. I
feel like that's guarantee is gonna happen a New Cords
little seedling is bruined in her belly. But because yeah,
they were smashing, I doubt they got pan uh navi
sized condoms and in those realms, And even if they did,
I doubt they would have.
Speaker 2: Everyone just heard them out in there, the cameras out
streaming it.
Speaker 1: You know, Okay, we'll get there, We'll get there one
thing at a time. But yeah, no, I really love
the design. I liked her hutspa. I liked her gravitas
that she had in these scenes, like just commanding respect
amongst her people, and just like really interesting skill set
of like using her tail to just like paralyze people.
Like it's just really cool setup. But unfortunately, like once
chorus just kind of took over and like like they
just really like there's a big chunk she wasn't even
in the movie, and the next time you see her,
she's just like on course as side and just like
a new henchmen. It seems so really disappointed by that.
I really wish we had the version of the movie
where like she actually was the main villain and then
the humans were more like the people on the side,
So a little bit disappointed with well not little bit
majorly disappointed by that. I think that is one of
my bigger complaints overall with the movie, because yeah, the
dialogue is bad, but like I kind of know what
I'm getting into with these Avatar movies by now with that,
Like even the first movie doesn't have stellar dialogue in it.
Second one, I think it's a step down, and this
one's just kind of more the same. So like I
wasn't really shocked by that, but like to have a
really cool introduction to this villain and then for her
to just like take a vaccines, Like, what are we
doing here?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 1: Like why do we have to just be sky people
focused the entire fucking series? Like seriously, especially when we
go seven movies of Avatar, I don't want to see
fucking Phoebe's drugged up brother who I don't know who
that actor's name is, like the CEO guy, Like, I
don't want to see him being like the main guy
every single fucking movie, or a new general type character
coming in. Oh no, I'm running the show, like I
like I That's what kind of frustrates me because they
show us some cool stuff and then they just take
it away after the first act, And yeah, I disappointed
by that overall because I was really interested with his
villain and yeah, just just just just back sated her,
which was unfortunate. Now she is still alive, so potential,
but I kind of not gonna hold my breath for that.
Speaker 2: I think that they they alluded slightly to Chortz just
kind of taking over her troops. It felt like because
when he's out there and he started drinking and partying
with the grunts and.
Speaker 1: What yes, yes he's got the super dick.
Speaker 2: Yeah you hear that in that tent. Yeah, so I
think that they needed to maybe flush that out a
little bit more, showing that he's kind of taking over.
And but that being said, you don't ever feel like
she becomes less of a leader. It just kind of
feels like they become two one and the same. But
they really usher him in quick to just reaffirm like, hey,
he's the main antagonist in this.
Speaker 1: And she was really hoping that she was gonna be
like having like a I don't know, one up on him,
like actually have like her own motives, and then like
she she used them for the guns and everything, and
then like when they're supposed to be loyal, Like that's
when she just betrays them all. Like I was really
hoping for that to happen, but it didn't. They were
just fully loyal, you know. They like like when they
go to the city and she's like telling her people,
you know, like like like act tough, like like don't
be scared and like no like conniving, you know, like, Okay,
we're gonna take over the city now, and we're gonna
use their facilities to like make our own fire. Like
I was kind of expecting something like that to happen,
but like it didn't at all. It was just oh,
we have flamethrowers now that we use like literally once
at the at the last sequence.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it would have made more sense, to be honest,
And I really thought when they made a whole stink
about it, like oh, we've got a whole bunch of
like bogies flying in but they all have like ID tags.
We can't hit like attack them, and it's like that's
a big fucking red flag, Like Chords is just handing
out fucking hall passes to everyone out here. So yeah,
that would have been a really good setup for them
to turn it around and actually attack, but instead they
use it for the setup for Materirie to go in
there and go rogue undercover. So yeah, yeah, I would
have preferred them to take over everything because yeah, they
got the flame throwers and stuff like that was their goal.
That was their whole mo, just to put the whole
planet into fire, and so they were kind of stripped
of that because then Kords was like, Okay, we're not
going to destroy this space. We're not going to like
do this and whatnot. So they were kind of they
were grounded for quite some time, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's also disappointing that we like even went through
the effort of kind of explaining her backstory and how
like these people like totally are against I. Yeah, Awa,
and like like like that's kind of badass, Like like
these people are so attached to the to the nature
of this world and Awa and like she was just
completely like her people were starving, they're begging for able
to help them. She didn't, so then they just completely
are against her, like like this is a cool setup,
especially for like this world, and that's not even our
main villain. Like it's literally just these people that want
fucking unobtaining it. They don't even want that anymore. Now
they want the fucking whale juice. God man, oh, don't
even get me start on the whales. I'm so fucking
pissed off about that again. But anyways, back to the
ash people. I think the last thing I kind of
want to say on that is when Quorage. Oh actually no,
the other badass thing that they do is like sever
their braids. I can't know what the actual term is
for them, but it's and then yeah, yeah essentially, and
they say it's like a fate worse than death because
when they die they go back to nature. But if
they lose that, like they're just in limbo. Essentially, it's
like you die without a soul.
Speaker 2: And I thought I thought that was having sexy and
connect the the hair together. So I when I saw that, like,
I thought, like it, she's just like making them climax
and then just cutting it off like.
Speaker 1: A way to go death by snoop snoop, you know
that reference. But yeah, so pretty fucked up way to
kill people. Cool set up, pretty obsessed with like the
thunder guns, like make make thunder out outs, you know,
so like some cool stuff there. But then I'll fast
forward to when Korich goes to their their camp here again,
really cool looking camp. I like the vibe of this.
It was kind of giving me some like Kong Skull
Island vibes or just just King calling in general, just
like their little bone effigies that they have set up.
But goes there. Uh, he's got his sniper doing lookouts, and.
Speaker 2: Well that got me. I started laughing. When the snipers
started popping shots. I was like, man, I I started
thinking of you. I started thinking a war zone. I
don't know it, it made me laugh.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. There's a lot of scenes in here that I'm like,
I'm getting arc rave are craters vibes, like the big
big mech things that they're taking out, uh, just from
the gameplay I've seen. But uh, it goes with the
tent goes into the fucking peyote tent. She she gives
in like this, the the snort pipe thing. Oh that's
some strong shit, as my name suggests. The drugged up colonel,
he's just doing some some wild lines and just just
the crazy psychedelic effects that are going on. I did
like kind of like they're back and forth there, but
it was also just kind of goofy to me, like
like like, I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna keep you as my slave and you'll pleasure mate.
Speaker 1: That's where I was like, Okay, we're going right there.
We're not We're not even beating around the bush. And
then he brings in his people with the flame throwers,
the guns, they're popping off, they're having a good time.
And as that's all going on, that's when she like
brings them into the tent and I'm like, oh my god,
they're literally just going to smash right now, Like this
is so fucking ridiculous. I I was laughing. I was
laughing that sequence. I enjoyed that it was in there
for entertainment purposes. And yeah, I wouldn't have even taken
it out because it's like whatever, let's just fucking get crazy.
I do kind of like this underlining storyline with Korch
of like is he jar head or is he still
or you know, like like he'd like that Miles Chorch
did die. So this is a type he's like he's
showing little cracks of like being a local, right, Like
even his attachment with Spider, the moments between him and
Jake Suley when they're like kind of neutral at times
and Jake keeps trying to like emphasize of like seeing
you know the world. I thought that's where we were
going like early on in the movie. But then he
goes back to the base and he's just completely back
to his mission. But then when he gets like his
mission on why he's there is to take out Jake
Sulei and he has so many opportunities to do that,
and then he just doesn't. And it's pretty much just
to stretch out the story because Jake Suey has plot
armer at this point, and it seems like Miles Korch
has plot armer. Now I was mentioning to hadalgo when
we're leaving. I'm like, man, there's two guarantees in these
Avatar movies. Jake Suey's not gonna die and fucking Miles
Korch isn't gonna die. Like the two are just gonna
live on tell movie nine, I swear to god. But yeah,
that whole sequence between him just smashing the ash lady
and from that point on, like that's really when she
takes a back seat, like she's not really like she's
just kind of like a henchman after that, which is unfortunate,
very like a domesticated version of herself, which is super
super unfortunate because I just feel like it was a
really cool setup of a cool looking character, cool looking
people that have their own kind of different take on.
Like it's just it's the Nave that we know, but
like spun one eighty because in way of the Water
we get introduced to the water nov but they're pretty
similar to the forest people, like okay, yeah, like like
they're just in the water now, and but they still
have like major attachments to Awa, and I guess we
kind of have like the Flyer people too, very very
briefly with Professor Remus, I swear to God that that
must be him. I didn't check the casting, but that
guy on the ship looked exactly like Remus from Harry Potter.
Speaker 2: I think it's the same actor, to be honest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sounded like him. Looked like him. I haven't double
checked that, but I'm pretty confident. But yeah, so just
to have like a completely different type of Nove and
then just show us some cool sauce and then of
course smashes the main lady and then they're just like
domesticated from that point, very disappointed. So yeah, that's that's
my big grievance with the ash people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you hit so many right on the
noggin with your points. I think it would have been
nice to just get a little bit more flushed out
with them, because I think at the end of the day,
them just kind of coming in at the end, it's
just this massive fleet with RPGs and whatnot. They just
come in and save the day sort of speak for
the jar Heads and the sky people, but it doesn't
really do anything because they get squashed by AWA and
all a was folks, And I mean, it's just weird
how AWA works because now you just have these people
prayed to Awa. Awa didn't come, and now it was
just fucking murdering them. Just uh, you know, there's a
weird imbalance to that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so I don't there God love power and like, yeah,
why doesn't this happen in every other next movie, you know,
a which sends all of the creatures to just go
pop off whatever villain And maybe I'll say it now,
I was kind of disappointed by the AWA pop off,
especially when we like, actually, see didn't like the all
Mother or whatever, like the Giant Face. You didn't like it.
Speaker 2: No, I was thinking, is that's the gourney Weaver's face?
Is that is that in there?
Speaker 1: At first, I was like, why is it a human
like like it looks so weird. But then I'm like, okay, no,
it is. It is a nove looking individual. I was
honestly hoping for like one hundred foot Avatar to just
like start like just coming out through the water and
just smashing people up, kind of like if you've actually
seen you know, Avatar the Last Airbender in uh book one,
the water, like the giant water Avatar that comes out
and just off against the fire Nation. I wanted something
like that, but then it's just like, okay, we're just
getting the cephalopods, We're just getting the fucking squid things
to come out and pop off whatever. Could have been
way cooler if it was a giant entity, but they
were saving that for Avatar nine. Maybe maybe that's when
we'll actually see the full fucking mech type type a
wall popping off. I deviated there for some reason I
can't remember now. Oh, just the like, yeah, like the
super god power that comes in and pops off at
the end.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yeah, no, I think, uh, the god power.
We saw it in the first movie, so getting it
again here like it was familiar, But I don't know
if I necessarily needed it, because it's just say it's
it's a copo. When they can't do it themselves, well
we'll just get you know, all the animals to come
to our assistance here. So mm hmm, yeah, there's that.
I feel like that's just you can never lose with
that because the animals just totally beat all the sky
People's tack and everything every single step of the way.
But yeah, yeah, back to the Ash people, it would
have been so much cooler to get a little bit
more backstory in context on where things kind of went
wrong for them and why they really chose this path
after a what kind of abandoned them and whatnot, because
you have in that first movie where the sky People
destroy their home tree and you know, they're praying to Awa.
Awa didn't come and they're well, they still prayed to Awa,
and I guess there it was response to them was
Mactow shows up, you know, Jake Suley, So that was
their hope and so these the Ash People didn't have that.
Speaker 1: It was just what's her face for?
Speaker 2: Wrong? Yeah? The psych Yeah, yeah, so yeah, and like
you said, she took a back seat near the second
bit of this movie. That was a shame because she
was terrifying. She was really really freaky, and she was
just like mesmerizing the way she was moving and she
was talking, and she was just so fascinating with the metal,
the guns and stuff like that. And again, speaking of
rush scenes, which this movie did have quite a few
rush sequences, when the kids were all held hostage and
we're in the woods and Jake Suley and Korich they
get detained and then she syncs up with him hair
braid to hair braid, and then immediately like the next scene,
he's like, all right, you put the magazine in here
and then you fire and all that. It's like, this
is a little preemptive.
Speaker 1: I feel like, especially like I'm glad you brought that up,
because in that moment in my mind, I'm like Coorish
is like so against the nave and like, okay, he's
here to take out Jake Suley. Why is he here
to take out Jake Suley? Because he's leading, he's like
organizing all these clans to just pop off against the humans.
And well, if you just fucking load up another clan
of Nove with guns, Like, is that not worse because
they're also just gonna pop off on the humans when
they trying to domesticate or colonize this planet. Sorry, So
it it just seems so backwards with his motivation. But
I guess they were literally just sticking to the script
of well biack three, he's gonna be boning this lady.
So maybe this is just setting up that they have
some chemistry here. I don't know. It was just really
bizarre because it seems so backwards to what his motivation
should have been for what was set up because you
take Coorts from the first movie. He's like, they're fucking savages.
They're they're natives, like like like like we need to
take them out. And although he's like kind of working
with Jake Zulei in that first movie to have a
peaceful option air quote, he never really wanted to do that,
like like like he he wanted to just take out
the home tree and just pop off on on these
what he would call savages. So it just seems so backwards,
and I think you could still maybe have that moment
after he's had more time kind of becoming more one
with with Awa and just like the world because some
of those little breadcrumbs were sprinkled in here, but like
they were breadcrumbs that were just blown away with the
wind because we like really didn't do any of that
at all. It's just like Jake Suley like, oh, yeah,
do you see. It's like no, I don't see, And
like that's all all that happens, because after that he
just just fucks off. Because Jake Suley's allies come so
very very not even half baked. It's like you take
out your cupcakes and they're literally just just just wet there.
You forgot to turn the oven on. That's what happened.
You took your cupcakes out after an hour and your
oven is not even on. That's how not even baked
that storyline was for me at least. And yeah, it
just like why even go through the effort. I probably
just just stretched us out over even more movies for
when you actually get that Korich purn I thought it
was gonna happen in this movie because of what was
set up. But we're playing the long game here, James Cameron.
You you want us to get that payoff in Avatar
six or seven, and I guarantee you like in Miles
Korich isn't gonna die in the next movie. He's gonna
live on.
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, I mean that that fall, I mean
he just yelled. I mean he could still be alive
in there for we know.
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely alive. Yeah, yeah, I'd make that bet.
Speaker 2: Uh. Yeah. I liked him more in the first movie.
I really really did his human form, and here, like
I feel like they gave him a little bit more
to work with because you really get to see his
achilles heel of his son. But you don't get enough
of him with his son either. You get one scene
that's very brief of him brought him, yeah, and then
that brought you a burger, and then another one where
he's hold on to him. He's like, you you know,
stab me and shot me in the arm. And then
they're up on the rock and then he just fucking.
Speaker 1: You know what's like the gift, the gift from the
first movie. He falls off the plane.
Speaker 2: He's just like, so, no one's crying over.
Speaker 1: Except for no one's crying them. Yeah, O kyah, do
you have anymore? I have nothing else on the ash people,
because that's as much as we got Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, I don't have much. It's just that they came
and then they were They were dissipated all too quickly.
I just wish that they did a little bit more
with them, because they really really promoted them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean the movie is called fire and Ash.
It should have been called fucking quorch smashes Ash. Lady
we go was the big emphasis of the movie. Maybe
I understand why they didn't have that as the subtitle. Um, okay,
where to next? Uh? You brought up Spider actually, and
I agreed with your point. I really did not like
Spider in that second movie. It's actually funny, but like
the very last scene of this movie makes it feel
like Spider is the new protagonist and Jake Suit Jake
Suwly is literally not even in that scene, Like like
you have everyone in like the world tree all connecting,
they're all touching, arms, zooms out and it's all around Spider,
and like it just seems like this is such an
emphasis on this character major like plot Uh, what's the
word I'm looking for? Just just plot piece, I guess.
With Spider and just now the humans want to basically
reverse engineer his body because if we do that we'll
be able to just breathe this world, the air on
this world.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: One of my one of my fucking absolute favorite scenes
in this movie, for all the wrong reasons, is when
uh Naytiri, you know they want him if they get
them reverse engineering, we gotta just take this fucker out.
And then Jake Suley after after they rescue him, after
Spider literally rescues him, they get him out, it's like, hey, hey,
in a Tiri, I think you're right. I think we
gotta fucking murder this this boy right now. He's like, no,
I don't think we should do that. Likely Oh no,
that's the only way. He grabs your knife. Spider, come
with me. It's like the most fucking sus thing in
the world, like, uh okay, uh, what's going on, don't
talk to me, just come with me. It's like, oh
my god, this guy's gonna fucking murder you. Spider kick
him in the nuts and run for the wind. Right now,
all these red Flighters are going off. He's you know,
he's obedient. He's going with Jake Suley. Sully leads him.
Get on the fucking ground right now. I'm gonna fucking
kill you, Like like just getting super aggressive, and Spider
is just like you don't have to do this, Please
don't kill me, and like the back and forth is
just so ridiculous. The scene is just so ridiculous in
my mind, like like why are we even doing this
this This is so unneeded in my opinion, because at
the end, we don't fucking kill him and we never
even talk about this again. Like does Spider ever at
any moment, say, like when he's with Loak or Kiri, like, hey,
your dad tried to fucking murder me in the woods
and actually came so close to doing it. Nope, not
at all.
Speaker 2: And he wasn't even scared in that scene, like he's
like I'm ready he was first.
Speaker 1: And then and then yeah he's like you know, I'm
gonna go with a what It's fine, and then he
turns around you still love me, Papa? Like it's just man,
it is like an old yellow type satirical moment, and
like I was laughing hysterically, like I was trying to
like not be loud, That's how hard I was laughing
in this moment because it was just it seemed like
it was so long, it was so prolonged and while
it's happening, I'm like, obviously he's not gonna fucking murder
this kid right now, Like we know that's not gonna happen,
So why are we spending so much time doing this?
It was so goofy and yeah, he never says it
at any other point. It's uh, it was such a
fucking goofy scene to me, And uh, yeah, Pandora, that's true. Yeah,
that's what happens on Pandora. But Spider overall, I definitely
grew to like him more here. He's got a fucking
braid and everything. He's like becoming a n a V.
Of course, Kiri kinda hooks him up to the to
the to the world to Awa and that that's kind
of what happens there, Like that he no longer needs
the breathing apparatus and he's kind of actually like the
main pot device, a device that gets us going on this,
right because they wouldn't have even left the water people
if his mask wasn't crapping out. They had to get
him back to the other people, you know, so so
that that wouldn't happen anymore. So a lot of the
movies kind of centered around him. And I already mentioned
when the humans are trying to part of me reverse
engineer him, but I found her to be a lot
less annoying here. I still fucking hate his name Spider,
and Kiri calls a monkey boy. And it's just like
at the end when she's like hooking up to Awa
and like trying to get super what's the world like
just just just getting to Awa, like to to the
all mother and he and it's like a super intense moment,
you know, the score is hitting really heavy. He hooks up,
grabs her hand and it's like super intense, and she's
just like monkey buy. It's like fuck man, Like, I
hate this name so much. But all that aside, I
definitely like Spider.
Speaker 2: A lot more.
Speaker 1: The start of the movie, I wanted him. I wanted
that Spider to get squashed, but I'm kind of okay
that he's still around at this point in time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I again, I think he holding his own in
this movie really really made it it better for me,
I think to appreciate him because when he was on
the raft, for example, the flying ship and the fire
ash people jump down and he just pulls out his
bow and he fires one arrow into the guy's throat
and then throws another one into his arm, Like fuck,
this guy holds his own. He's doing pretty good fighting
one of these guys.
Speaker 1: Every time I see him pull out his little fucking
butter knife, though, with these like ten foot tall nave
running at him, And'm like, what's he gonna do? What
the fuck are you gonna like?
Speaker 2: Seriously, there's nothing he can do. But yeah, he's just
his one liners and his bad jokes and stuff I
just I don't really jive with. And he's like, you can,
you know, eat my ass or whatever, and he's like
flipping them, giving them the bird and stuff like that.
I'm just thinking, like, I'm just not jiving with this.
This just feels like he's trying to embody everything with
like living in this spiritual world of Pandora, and then
he's just got excessively human traits. Like I feel like
the guy is I'm gonna say, he's very North American
with how he's with how he acts and what and whatnot.
So it's just it's it's too too much, too flamboyant,
even like like Jake Suley, he's a he's the marine,
he's the jar head and he's human obviously, but they
tone him down. He's not excessive with with all of it.
And I don't even know how old Spider is really,
so there's that too, but I digress. Oh my god,
that's old. Uh yeah, he I like to mour in
this movie though. I like that he definitely served more
of a purpose. And I really thought that they, you know,
they were killing him. When Jake Suley shanked the air,
I thought, fuck.
Speaker 1: They just didn't think he was going to do it.
Speaker 2: I did, I really really did, because I thought, this
is the last one of the trilogy. We're you know,
making waves here, and that's this.
Speaker 1: Is the last one of the trilogy.
Speaker 2: Well it depends. If this one doesn't do good, We're
not getting Avatar four James Cameron. He's gonna put into
a novelization.
Speaker 1: So I ain't reading that book. I'm here for the
visuals and I don't think it's a fucking good looking
graphic novel.
Speaker 2: Three D goggles, Yeah, you have to read the book
with three D glasses. That would hurt. But yeah, no,
I I think I feel like you brought up a
good point where they did not really showcase Jake Suley
at the end here, and I think, Okay, the whole
movie was really narrated by his son, right and his
and the kids. Yeah loak, and that you have Spider
in the mix here. So I kind of feel like
at the end of the day, maybe they're just gonna
then Jake Suley off into the sunset and uh, we're
just gonna carry forward here. Yeah, maybe, I think I
think they'll be there, but I think they definitely would
take a back seat and they would just kind of
chill because how many more are these movies do you
think they signed on for? Right, I think they definitely
feel in the feeling.
Speaker 1: The Blood Life contract, that's what they signed.
Speaker 2: You got to buld you hold your breath for twenty
minutes underwater for a two minute scene and James Cameron's
just making them bleed, you know, to do these roles
and stuff.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I don't know either.
Speaker 2: I think with as far as Spider goes, there's there's
more to his story because obviously he's alive. Humanity is
very interested in him. The guy that who I can't
remember his name, but he's from the first movie. He
was playing golf, one of the unentertainingum He has an
obsession with getting this kid alive, and you have I mean, yes,
Humanity's forces got fucking decimated, their factory got fucking mass occurred.
But like that, that fleet was obviously much bigger than
the one we saw in the last movie, and way
bigger than the one we saw in the first movie.
So I don't know what kind of resources they have left,
But there's there's still a story there they need to
tell with them trying to get Spider, and we know
in the Way of Water they were talking about colonization
and moving everyone to Pandora to like live there because
Earth was dying. So that's a whole nother story that
I wish they touched upon a bit more in here,
but they just kind of progressed it through Spider's narrative
of him being able to breathe. And I thought, to
be honest, that him breathing was going to be the
result of them terraforming, but that caught me off guard
when it's like, no, it's just because they took the
seeds of the Sacred Tree and plucked them and just
fucking shoved them down his throat and all that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's take about that break and it'll be
right back to keep going. All right, we are back,
uh Spider, Yeah, the colonization stuff. I mean, I don't
really have much more to add on that. I I
don't know. It's like, I guess it's a reason for
the humans to be after this certain character that we're
trying to keep safe and away from them. I imagine
that'll just be you know, if and when we get
that next movie just gonna be more the same. I'm
kind of curious how we evolve from that, like instead
of just being like, oh, yeah, we're just picking up
from where we were, that's where I was gonna go. Actually,
is like the stuff that was introduced in Way of Water.
It seems like this movie picks up right after the
second one, essential like like definitely not like less than
a month, I would say, if anything, like it seems
like it's right there because like the family, the Suli's
are still mourning the death of their one son. The
opening sequence was between Loak kind of visiting his brother
in the the just like the Awa realm by linking tails.
I kind of like those moments, you know, although I
don't really care too much for those characters, Like it's
just cool world building stuff of like you can kind
of just visit your fallen family members. It's kind of
an interesting concept, especially that everything's so attached like to
the world of Pandora and and like it's just like
a living, breathing entity. It's also just because I watched
that first movie this morning, like the the idea of
like all of our life energy is just borrowed and
then we just give it back like to the world.
I feel like that's what makes the character of like
ver Wrong, like the psychic so interesting. Of like when
she just cuts like the braid, it's just such a
like the scalping. It's just such like an intense thing
of like you could just never see your ancestors again,
Like that's kind of a fate worse than death. So
I kind of wish that was the main villain of
the movie, but something like that that was the case.
Where do you want to go next?
Speaker 2: I mean, there's one more thing with Spider I want
to bring out, Yeah, because you know he's he's he's
also getting some local tail.
Speaker 1: You know, he's Oh man, we're back, and.
Speaker 2: Everyone in the theater gassed. It was audible, like like, oh.
Speaker 1: There's spooching oh yeah.
Speaker 2: Everyone in the theater was just like, whoa, So we
don't like that.
Speaker 1: We don't like that. No inter breeding.
Speaker 2: I was telling Madison, it's like, well, they're just you know,
they're they're adopted siblings. It's okay, right, It's like, no,
that's not it's not okay.
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't really think they're siblings. Yeah, they have this, well,
they're cousins, if anything, adopted.
Speaker 2: Right, it's like dexter because Kiri.
Speaker 1: Kiri isn't even blood related to the Suli's right, and
then Spider is Korg's son, so definitely not blood red.
Jake dad adopted dad. Okay, yeah, I guess I guess
you're right. I guess you're right. I mean those two
were kind of a love dynamic, even from the way
of the water of they're just doing some close tickling.
You know. He doesn't do that with their cousins. I
never did that. That's that's fair. I guess that's fair.
I was just giggling because of like the scene overall
of him just smooching this eight foot lady. He's looking
half bricked up in that moment of his little fucking loincloth,
not really hiding anything.
Speaker 2: Down there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I imagine that'll just keep going. If we keep
getting these movies there, their level will just evolve. That's funny.
We I don't think there's any reactions like that in
my theater. I was just laughing at the idea of,
like everyone's just fucking smashing everyone in this in this movie.
Now we're getting the ash people boning Korich. Uh this
scene later on when uh like this is when the
teary's doing like her infiltration mission, and it's just like
a shot of Korich and like the ash lady just
like spooning in the tent. And then when he comes
out afterwards after just giving her the best dick of
her life because she's just knocked out in the tent
and he comes out, he just like covered an ash
oring his loin cloth. He's like sipping drinks around the
fire with the other ash people. Just such a fucking
goofy sequence. I I just I was eating all that up.
But and then yeah, you get you get the little
smooch between Kiri and actually not I'm talking about that.
Can we go to Kiri a little bit here? This
character I didn't really love too much in the way
of Water, And I don't mind like the setup and
the concept of the character of like how she was
a clone made from Grace, because Grace when she was
dying was like really connected to the like the to
Awa and and just like the world in general. So like,
I don't mind like the what's the miraculous conception of
the character of Kiri. I don't love the idea of
it being Sigourney Weaver the voice. It's just I like
Sigourney Weaver. I don't think I minded it. Like the
first time watching The Way Water, but like on the rewatch,
I hated that character's voice so much it was just
so jarring to me. And then this one again it's
like more of the same. So really not a fan
of that decision to have that. I kind of understand
why we're doing it. We gotta have Sigourney Weaver signed
that blood contract. We got to use her in some way,
shape or form. But yeah, not a fan of that
made it a lot worse to doing like the triple
feature of going from Way of Water right into this.
It was just like I've seen like six plus hours
of Sigourney Weaver in this little Kiri character. She did
kind of have some more powers here, which was kind
of cool. Like at the end of course, she kinda
does the one up on the ssayek that ash sayik.
But then also when she's like just connecting to the
world and she takes of those plants that like shoot
the needles and the projectiles, that was kind of cool.
I was kind of hoping more of that would happen,
Like in that blast battle she just swam down to
take to go converse with a whata, But I thought
she was gonna be like taking over like I don't know,
floral in the water to just like start like engulfing
some some ships and stuff. I could kind of see
that happening if we kind of like she seems like
that's kind of her her skill set. Now she keeps
kind of getting stronger with it, maybe she can just
start controlling more things in this world because everything is
so interconnected. That's a cool like concept in this world
that was introduced in the first movie. How like everything
it's almost like U it's almost like electoral conductors, like
just just everything is connecting and like just communicating that way.
So I kind of liked how she was using that
to her advantage. They don't really explain, like like they
keep saying like something is very special about her and
like she has these powers and that's all that happens,
and then we see her like use the powers. We
don't really get explanation. So yeah, I don't know. It's
I liked it, and I didn't like a lot of
this stuff around with kerrying this movie, and her voice
is just weird. I think it's also like I know
how old Sigourney Weaver is and hearing her just be
like dad, dad, like trying to be this like I
don't know, I don't know. I guess she's close to
Spider's age. So fuck for the sake of argument, I'll
say like seventeen eighteen nineteen in that range, Secournony Weaver's
not that old.
Speaker 2: No, you can hear it in the voice for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think her character interesting, you know, getting a
little bit more backstory on her being a clone and whatnot.
But yeah, I didn't realize that they actually kept her
origin a secret until now they told her. I thought
she already knew, so that was interesting, but.
Speaker 1: Because they knew that she was born from Grace's avatar,
but then they never told her who the father was
because in way of Water they kind of joke around
with it. It's like, oh, your father's norm And then
she has the god awful line of like I would
actually kill myself if that was and like you, Sigourney
Weaver's voice, this is a wave water. Again, I watched
like five hours ago, so it's fresh in the noggin,
but like, man, it's just such goofy, goofy lines there.
But I kind of just assumed we knew that it
was from like Awa to begin with. It didn't seem
like it was a big shock. The biggest shock was
like I didn't know that until now, like in the theater,
just like just a couple hours ago. I was like
they didn't know this already, Like like like when you
mean tell her this big secret? Like I feel like
she's kind of smart, she gonna figure that out, but
I guess not. Anyways, Yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Know, her powers are growing. That's pretty cool, But I
feel like there was still a lack there of execution
and fulfillment on explaining exactly where she was supposed to
reach with her abilities, because they're like, you can't use
your abilities, you it it's like a firewall. You gotta
wait because if you keep trying to use them, you're
gonna die. So you need to wait for this moment.
And it's like, Okay, I get it. She needs to
wait for a moment, and that would have been good
like let's say Spider Man two, where it wasn't until
MJ got taken. Then he finally he felt like his
firewall went down, he got his web back, right, So
I feel like, Okay, that's this case. Something needs to happen,
an external force needs to put her in the situation
to do it. Instead, No, she just sees fucking ash
people just nuke in all of her family and friends,
and so she just jumps in the water, goes back
underwater and does the same thing, just sinks up, and
it's gonna get fucking stroked out underwater and die until
her friend her family comes Spider pulls her. Yeah that's right.
So I didn't like that because I feel like they
set her up for needing to overcome something when it
presents itself to her. But she just kept doing what
she did to overcome it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, she would have just died.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, that's right.
Speaker 1: But our friendship and family, Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2: We'll see hopefully Avatar four more of what's going on
with her character, because she still plays a very important,
important role. Because she had that moment with the Kate
Winslet Sahik where Kate Winslet just kind of like really
opened up to her and was like are you I
know where She's like, you know, where'd you come from?
Or like why are you here? Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 1: Am here to pray? No, why are you here?
Speaker 2: It was really weird exactly, so they all seem to
know that there's some deep connection here and obviously, like
we spoke to earlier, a what planted the seed in
there instead of bringing Grace back?
Speaker 1: So mm hmmm yeah, yeah, no, really good points. I
kind of forgot about that scene between her and Kate
Winslet character. It's just who does it was so weird.
It was so yeah, pregnant lady gets fucking just shot up. Terrible,
terrible idea to have this lady like man like, if
you if you're the king in this situation, are you
letting Madison as pregnant? She is right now on the
first run.
Speaker 2: On the Steed.
Speaker 1: She's just going and like no wing man or anything.
She's just doing her solo missions Underwater.
Speaker 2: I was just one of my sons with her too.
Speaker 1: Oh who just fucking dies because those characters are just
completely unneeded now, which was kind of hilarious, But yeah,
I was because before they even go out to battle.
Uh it was actually in that scene, Carrie's like, you're
having contractions and then she just kind of sucks it
up and goes into battle. It's like, man, this is
such a fucking bad idea. I kind of thought she
had plot armored because she was pregnant, so I guess
kudos to them for you know, going through that, and
then they just shot her up. Because when she got shot,
I was like, are they literally just not gonna let
this baby be born? Like they're actually just gonna kill
this mother and the unborn child. That was pretty pretty dark.
But then you have the nice moment between uh Natier
in her the Tirie helps birth, which I kind of
liked that dynamic between those two characters. They were like
always just at each other's throat throughout the whole movie,
and then like even this moment, she's like dying out
and then it's like, oh, I'm gonna die, but after
I get this baby, She's like what fucking bush and
she's just like covering for her. So I actually I
feel like that was like a joke that was supposed
to hit that I actually laughed at, which was one
of the few and rare ones. But I kind of
liked their their dynamic other at each other's throats. But
then like like she would still be patching up Natiri
when she got fucked up in her shoulder, like I.
Speaker 2: Still do jackshit, just crapping all over her her medicine.
Speaker 1: You don't fucking rest and you blame my fucking medicine.
Like they just were so angry at each other that
the whole movie, which is which is pretty fun.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah. No, I thought that dynamic was really good.
And again this kind of goes hand in hand with
the Uh saeke from the Ash People. I think every
female counterpart that was out there and the Tiri just
kind of clashed heads with on different levels. And I
like that. I think it was really good. And I
like Materia a lot. She's she's she's got a good
comedic timing when she's not trying to be like when
she lands in the base and she's rescuing Jake and
and uh spider and Sally's like, uh, I don't have
to kiss you or yell you right now, and she's
like you waste time. Oh It's like she just growls.
Or even when she's like walking you know along the
in cat like has the face paint on and the
guards like oh hey hey, sweet kids, and then she's
like a man then just keeps walking. It's like what's
going on here? But I like how she she acts,
and she responds, what.
Speaker 1: The fuck are we doing here? You have these fucking
jar heads, like hey, look at this hot piece of
ass coming through this eight foot tall fucking blue alien lady.
It's like, oh, I know she wants to smash me.
It was just like, bro, what are we doing here?
Like this dialogue is so fucking bottom barrel. But no,
I that was a big highlight for me because in
a way of Water, she took a major back seat,
Like she was really not doing anything in that movie.
Like I think the main battle she probably pops off
a little bit with her with her bow and air,
Like I really I just watched that movie and now
it's all blended together. I can't even really remember. But
in this movie, like she's very she's mourning her son.
So in the beginning, like she's really sad, she doesn't
ever bow. She kind of pops off a little bit
in that main fight, and then she gets jacked up
her shoulder, so she's kind of on the end. But
then yeah, like she's she's just almost back to her
her herself from the first movie when when she's truly
popping off. And I love that sequence when she's like
in Just Solo mission going undercover taking out the base.
I kind of wish she wasn't so like, like I
get it, she's there to get Jake. And then she
she raids the camp. Uh you know, she she gets
the the ash saychek lady like at the knife blade. Ready,
I think in all reality she probably should have just
fucking slit her throat or scalped her right there, like
where's Jake Jake's being and then just fucking do it
right then and there. It's like, no, you're gonna take
me there? Like, really, come on, that's kind of stupid.
Why do you even need to take your there? Like
just go fly around on your on your thing. You
have the iff chip like you like you're totally fine.
Kind of stupid again, I guess plot armor for the
ash Lady so that we can carry on her story
maybe for next film, because she's carrying chorch a seed.
I'd love that you said that, because now I'm just
fully bought into that theory. But like, I kind of
wish she went there, Okay, where's Jake. Perfect slits her
throat and then she just goes around with the fucking
frag arrows and just popping off on all the refineries.
Like that's perfect, that's all you really have to do.
For some reason, this base has zero fucking anti air
missiles at all. They mentioned that they kind of do
a little bit, but then they all have the iff chips,
so then we're just not gonna use them because when
when she gets Jake, Suey and Spider and they just
fly away like really like they just I guess she
still has the chip at that point, so the anti
aircraft missiles are just fucking useless. But like whatever, whatever,
I kind of wish she was just going around the
base and just popping off and just actually like like
crippling the base, like destroying like eighty percent of like
the refineries and everything. Like I just think that would
have been plus like the eye candy. Like the sequence
looked awesome of her flying around with like the blood
paint and everything and then hiding from like the people
looking for like under underneath, like when when when her
and her little raptor thing are like like just in
the water. It was awesome. It was like a little
covert just pop off Black Ops mission like it was.
It was really sick. So it was nice to get
that coming from wave of water, which she was severely nerved.
She she really wasn't used at all in that movie.
M No.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I agree. I got a bow back to
her back, yeah, father's bow. I really liked her in
this movie a lot. It was great, and I agree,
I think she should have had a little bit more
of a night Specops run in that base. And it
is weird that they don't have any kind of proper
air support or air turrets. I mean, they got the
drones flyinger out of the aircraft, but like when you
look at what that first base had and Avatar one,
they had like huge fucking Matt cannons on their perimeter fence,
like nothing was penetrating into that air airspace, right, So yeah,
it just seems yeah, very simple here like and again too,
you gotta be careful because the ash people were chasing her,
but they were doing a lot of damage too, and
they're finding their RPGs and blowing up all the local
infrastructure and all that shit.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know, it was weird, Like it
seemed like they had them ready, like Okay, we got
a bunch of bogies coming in. Oh no, they have
the ship or the chips, so don't shoot. They're with
korych okay whatever. And then it was as if they
like decommissioned every single antire missile from that point on,
like they just they just didn't use them at all
since we're at the base. Actually, one of the goofiest
fucking sequences of the entire movie for me is Jake
Suey's captured and it's literally like you see Tom cruise
downtown Kelowna and everyone has their phone out and they're
just live streaming this fucking Jake Suey thing. And I
swear to god, dude, every single time that they went
to Jake Sulei, there's just a crowd of people recording
him and like I literally just turned to hidalgo to
my right and I'm like, who are they live streaming
to like in this moment, Like like they literally just
look like NPC characters where all they're doing is recording
this event right in front of them. They're doing absolutely
nothing else. They're just standing there day and night recording
Jake Suey in this fucking box. There's people taking selfies.
Speaker 2: It's probably just you.
Speaker 1: Know, commentary on like Today, like that's what people do
in today's day and age. But it's just like on Pandora,
really do we fucking care that much? Like, Okay, Jake
Suley is in town Square, I think this the janitor
has to go fucking clean up the shitters like instead
he's out here and just filming this. Like it was
just so stupid and ridiculous, and like we went back
to them like three or four times of just the
crowd reaction and they're just recording and Spider escapes and
then he's just in the crowd and nobody fucking notices
because everybody just live streaming Jake Suley. Like that was
the most NPC type behavior I've ever seen from characters
in this movie. So stupid, it was so ridiculous. I
I just I couldn't get past it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I uh yeah, I agree. It's uh, it's
it's frustrating. Uh And it's something that I definitely was
kind of shaking my head at too. But I mean
it's not the end of the world, I guess, and
it's something that I'm just kidding. It's not going to
detract from from the experience for me, But it was
definitely was just kind of annoying.
Speaker 1: It's like why, like why you know, like like it's
so stupid. Uh, what else was going on in that
bass we had? Yeah, they're doing their tests on Spider
we kind of already talked about, which is very.
Speaker 2: Brutal when they're showing the cords down his throat and everything.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was like some clockwork Orange type moments too.
We actually had that way of Water too, when they
capture them and this is like they're torturing this poor
fucker and then yeah, Buddy brings him the burger, gives
him the tag. I kind of like that how it
seems like he's getting through to him. There's just some
like super half baked like oh yeah, your mother was
really awesome, who is in nothing character that we've never
talked about before? And then here it's just like, yeah,
she was a good soldier.
Speaker 2: She died.
Speaker 1: She was very honorable, you know, like she died.
Speaker 2: She was in that battle in the first movie, which
that's news to us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like they yeah, they didn't name her or anything,
like she's just a completely unknown character. Chorus just smashed
and u and passed, and I guess she had a
baby at some point in time. But I it was
just weird because it seemed like it was working at first,
because like he's literally like in tears when he's like
telling him this backstory, and it's like, all, can I
keep the dog tags? Which is also kind of counter
because I feel like this qoruch didn't fucking care at
all about his previous self, Like like he crushes his skull,
his own skull in way of water, he like gets
the tags and he's not interested in at all, like
Buddy just takes it for him, whereas here he's like, yeah,
I'm your father, this is me, I'm that same guy,
and it just seems so like we've already done this
and you were super against. Like it was just weird,
But I did like how he took the tag, thinking
that like I want to have it to remember him,
but then he uses it as a key to get out,
So I again, that kind of boost up Spider's stock
for me a little bit. It's like, Okay, he's actually
he's clever, clever little girl or clever little monkey.
Speaker 2: Boy Madison College. She nudges me, She's like, oh yeah,
he's gonna use that to like screw the.
Speaker 1: She's a clever girl. She didn't way over my head.
I'm just like, okay, yeah, I guess Spider's just fully
loyal to these humans. Now, Like that's where we're going
with this writing. It's it's just so inconsistent, but yeah,
I digress. The marine biologist guy who was introducing Way
of Water has a little pop off moment in here.
I thought he was getting marked as soon as he
was running with Jake Suley.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of glad he he just.
Speaker 2: He just got out there. He's still around, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not arrested. And like, I don't think anyone
really saw it was him that did it, so like
really he could have just blended in with the crowd
and then and then went on his day. He had
his little hero moment to save Jake Suley. There so
kudos to him.
Speaker 2: And that's where I wish that we that's one of
the plots where this character appears, he helps the main narrative,
and then he just ups and disappears. It would have
been nice to get some kind of scene with him
at the end. But I'm assuming come Avatar four, that's
when this character comes back in and he will probably
be like an eyes on bass kind.
Speaker 1: Of character, like a Max, like Max's Zacher movie. That's right, yeah, yeah,
because he was he was introduced in the Way of Water.
He was working with the fucking whale poacher guy. M
let's just go there. I guess who. Like, he had
a robot arm in this one. I don't know how
the fuck he survived the Way of Water because do
you remember he was like that cable on his own
arm snaps off, so his arm was flying and then
he goes flying into the water and then we just
come here and he's just totally fine. He's the same
piece of shit.
Speaker 2: Just poaching guy so much PTSD.
Speaker 1: That was a holy shit moment, Like, like I gas
when that happened in the theater because it was just
so visceral of a visual to see that. But uh, Anyways, Yeah,
he was back, and he's just he's just here to
fucking mine some whales and just get billions of dollars. Like, man,
we did this in the last movie. We had an extended,
disturbing scene of them just like hunting down these whale things,
and then we're doing that again and that it like
it seems like that's a major reason why these humans
are even here in the first place, like like Corgio's
missions to hunt down Sulei, but then every other military
person is here to get the fucking whale juice, and
like it just yeah, I was so annoyed by this.
H it kind of ties in with like the low
Ax stuff too, and just like it seemed like it
seemed like we're just like, Okay, this is part two
of the way a water plot, but then also we're
telling our fire and ash storyline between like like Qorch
is still hunting down Suli, so that's like the main
story sort of. But then also over here we have
Lowak who's just going on a side quest to go
commune with his his his brother like the outcasts, and
then you also have the humans coming in to just
mine these whales, which we get another scene of him
just like hunting down this whale and then and then
sucking out the juice. The I can't even remember what
they called it.
Speaker 2: The it's like it licks your of life stuff.
Speaker 1: Essentially, Yeah, essentially, it's probably just you know, it's like
when people hunt rhinos for dick pills. It's probably the
same shit. Fuck yeah, dude, super rich people they poach
rhino horns and then they think that it'll enlarge their wieners.
Billionaires and rich people do. Yeah. Mess, it's just that bad.
But where was it going? Oh yeah, just it was
just such a mixture of different little plot things coming
together and I was so not interested in that whales
storyline from the Way of Water and then just have
it here and it be like really this big emphasis,
Like I just hated it. I don't know, I hated
Loak going out on his own.
Speaker 2: You didn't like the blind whale like I'm blind and
I will take my revenge.
Speaker 1: Or what I was talking about. I didn't uh didn't
love that. I didn't love like the when they're having
the council, it's like, you will not speak here. You're
an outside, You're not allowed to speak here because again
this is just way of water stuff that we're just
picking up here in this movie. And then the Turuk
Maktau is back. He's assembling all the clans. They're having this.
Another council Loak shows up. They're like, you can't be
here again. Uh well, no I must speak. It's like, okay,
you're allowed to speak, and then he speaks, and then
they're like, oh, okay, yeah, you're right. Like it's just
why the fuck are we doing this? Seriously, like like
we could have cut an hour off this movie if
we didn't do this, or we could have spent that
with the ash people and like like actually doing new,
interesting stuff that wasn't just picking up from the last movie.
So that was another thing that was just really really
really bugging me down. I think that's a major reason
that would like like be my cons for this movie
is just like, man, just know that that storyline is
just dead and we don't care about that anymore. Like
if the next movie comes out and we have more
of these fucking whales, get in mind, Like I don't
give a shit about that at all. Let's go somewhere
else with this. I was, yeah, super annoyed by that,
and like it just and actually before you go with
that too. That was another thing that I was just
getting pissed off with Jake Sulei about because in the
first movie he goes through like major growth of a character, right,
like he's one with the people. Next movie, Wave of Water,
father protects, that's his whole goal. Fucking hates Loak Loach,
never listens, He's always fucking shit up, gets his brother killed.
And then I feel like in that moment, Jake Suley
is like, oh, it's it's probably not my son's fault,
like I probably shouldn't blame him in this, But then
we just fucking scratched that because in this movie again
he's like, your brother would still be around if you
just fucking listen. You're such a terrible son. And then
like the Teary's talking to him and he's like I
have nothing to talk to him about, and I'm like,
this is such a this is such a fucking jar head,
stupid Jake Suley move. And that's where I think, like
Jake Suey just peaked in that first movie because he
just like he uh digressed, So that's where we'd regressed,
I guess on his just growth of a character. It's
just man.
Speaker 2: Trying to pitch to Korich too earlier on like you know, yeah,
you have new eyes, but you haven't opened them. You know,
you gotta connect with something fred than yourself in this world.
And it's like this is before he tries to slit
Spider's throat and tries to, you know, let his son
kill himself, like Jesus Christ, and like, man, his son.
Speaker 1: Is like what thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, let's say maybe sixteen
at most, and he's like actually putting the blame on
his like probably favorite son's death on this poor kid,
and like he's just letting him fuck off, Like I
have nothing to talk to him about it. There's the
guy like it son Jesus, oh my god, yeah, like
a near suicide, and like Jakes Lely wouldn't have even
fucking cared, like seriously, like okay, maybe it would have
to see any he would have cared, but like his
behavior is just so ass backwards, and it like it
was just so frustrating because it just feels like we
like he goes through such an evolution from that first movie,
but then second movie is just he's a marine and
there's literally a line in here again where he's like
I'm a marine, That's what I'll always be, Like, I'm
a human. But the whole first movie is literally him
going from that to a full on novve like like
fully with the people, and then no, he's just fucking
jar head clan like ah, Like when we have scenes
like that, like how am I supposed to believe that
this guy is the fucking lea leasan al gaib, like
he's there to rock mak Tau, he's the chosen one,
Like he fucking hates his son and lets his son
almost go commit suicide because he's such a piece of
shit father Like that was so frustrating for me. I'm sorry.
I knew you were gonna go somewhere a little bit earlier,
but I just had to get that off my chest
because I was just so upset with Jake suit Lee
on that. And he's gonna be around for nine movies
and he's probably gonna be doing the same fucking thing
because this guy never learns and he just he peaked
in that first movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember where I was gonna go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry. We know we were talking about with
like low Ac and and the whales, And.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was that. That was it, the whales.
The whales. I didn't uh, I didn't necessarily need that
on repeat again. Here, I feel like we've got a
couple of scenes where they're like they're pouring the golden
juice in the vial and they're like close up with
their faces, they're like salivating them, not in their head.
It's like, yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, we got to
we're touching on this again. Okay is what they're after.
But yeah, no, it wasn't something that I really was
looking for. And granted, like that first Avatar movie, you
get usually that one big sentimental emotional scene, and that
first one was when the home tree got destroyed and
you're just thinking, oh wow, humans suck. These bastards, you know,
betray our race. And then in this the second one,
Way of Water, it's when you get that calm, quiet
scene of them hunting the whales and they kill them
and you see the baby die and everything. It's like,
oh wow, humans just fucking suck. Oh my god. And
I was waiting for that in this one, but we
didn't really get it, and I was kind of hoping,
you know, not that I hope to feel like a
piece of shit, But I like seeing that big ultimate
scene in Avatar War. You get to see your antagonists
make a play like that that kind of just really
sets the tone. And I don't think we really got
that because it was just a quick fire whale hunt
like we saw before.
Speaker 1: So yeah, because I feel like we did have some
of those moments, but they were just like lesser versions
of what we got on Way of Water. Because Whale
Water there's the extended whale hunt scene. You get a
really quick one here, and then you get them just
torturing more like they're just torching more villages, right, like
like where is actually? I just got reminded when they're
looking for Spider and the same thing like uh Korich
with the ash people they like has the monitor. It's
like Spider, where is he? They're like showing up photo Spider.
It just was so goofy. But yeah, so I I
see what you're what you're saying. It wasn't really anything
different from what we got from Wave Water, just a
lesser version of that. Yeah, to emphasize, you know, humanity
fucking sucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, That's all I got for whales.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, let the whales be gone.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't really have anything else to say on Jake Suley,
Like he gets the Tucke Macto again at the very
start of the movie. I think I can't remember who
he's talking to. Maybe it's an A Tierri. They're like, oh, yeah,
like you're Turouck Macto and he's like no, He's like,
that's not me anymore. I'm never gonna be that again.
And I literally and like this is probably less than
twenty minutes, and I turn over my right. I'm like,
that's fucking bullshit. I guarantee you in this movie he's
gonna be to Rock Macto again. And then sure enough,
end of the movie, he goes up to his cave. Hey,
old buddy, let's ride again. And okay, you know, you
get your cool scene. It's like a slow most scene
of him and the tiery like all war painted up.
It's just a repeat it the first movie though here
right like when he gets truck Macto. Okay, now, go
to all the other clans, assemble them to tell them
that t Uck Macto wants them. He's literally like a
word for word, the exact scor same score. He's wearing
the exact same like war paint on. They have like
the exact same gear. It was just, okay, let's do
this again. And guess what the worst part is, I
fucking ate it up again. That that fight scene where
they're ambushing up. I'm like, fuck, yeah, let's go.
Speaker 2: This is awesome. You know why you like it, It's because
I feel like an art S game, it really does
popping units out and deploying.
Speaker 1: When you're like twenty five minutes into your RTS match
where it's like, hey, I finally am in like the
last stage. I've got like the top tier units, everything's upgraded,
and I'm just surrounding my enemies here the ambush sequence
goes off. So yeah, that's definitely an accurate, accurate observation.
I'd say.
Speaker 2: The thing with Jake Silly here is to connect how
I will say his beast that he was writing, I
feel like it was much smaller than its size in
the first movie.
Speaker 1: I agree. Actually, yeah, okay, I.
Speaker 2: Just say that because like in the first movie when
they're all at the Tree of Souls and like he lands,
I feel like it looks fucking huge, and I get
it has a good but it is. Yes, it's massive.
And then here when he lands, it's like this thing
just looks super tiny, much smaller. So maybe just with
age he shrinks down. I don't know, but I will
say too, he's pulling in weak numbers, you know, go
to the New York gleans nearby and bring everyone in,
like fucking weak fucking numbers, because when you look at
what he had in that first movie, I think Korge
said that there was over twenty thousand. Like where those
fucking numbers at?
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it was few and far between for sure.
All Right, we're gonna take our will probably be our
last ad break and we'll be way back. All right,
we are back. Yeah, the big action scene. I don't
really have anything else to like single out in that sequence. Yeah, no,
it was I think we kind of touched upon little
individual things. The whales you know, come in and pop off,
they do their big breach. Just such a fucking stupid
rule to me, honestly, it's like killing will bring more bloodshed. Well,
like don't they already kill things? Because they kill like
those creatures like when low act, well.
Speaker 2: Fuck these squids, let's kill them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they fuck them up. And like they say, like
only the outsider is the one that does that. But
all these all these things were fucking them up. Stupid reasoning,
absolutely stupid reasoning, and like it's only gonna cause more bloodshed. Well,
these guys are here to genocide you, so maybe kill
those guys and then you can be peaceful. Like it
was just stupid reasoning. And again it's all tied into
the stupid fucking whales and their plot. And like we've
just spent so long on like will we go to war?
It's like we're doing I don't want to compare it
to it, because Lord of the Rings is amazing and
I like that version so much more. But it's like
the ants doing their their ant moot will we go
to war? Will we not? And like it fits that story,
But here we're doing some action and then and then
we just cut to these whales again and it's just like,
fuck these whales, man, I don't know, I'm I'm I'm
done with them. I'm done with them. Let's let them
be gone. But oh sorry, no, go ahead, I was
just gonna go to the other Uh, just emphasize the
other action scene kind of the beginning with the with
the sales and everything. Just like the creature design was
really cool, Like you have these like big blimp things,
these like alien Manu.
Speaker 2: Manta ray things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Manta rays essentially, that's what they look like. Just
really cool visuals, really really cool sequence. I really like,
like the air raid coming in with their like their
smoke trail, like the Ash people. Just a really cool
sequence that I was really eating up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and on top of that, when the the Sahik
flying with her companion there the Ash people and the
one Ash guy like gets his little lighter like I
am the fire and then she shoots him and he
just fucking bursts into nap. He's a war boy. Caught
me off guard. I fucking gassed. Man, Holy shit.
Speaker 1: I was so confused as to what the motivation was
because he's like he like holds up his thing like
should I do this? Should I go to and she
just fucking lights them up and then he just goes
right into the blimp. I was laughing because it was
just making me think of fucking Nicholas Yoker. They get
the chrome spray of their mouth, witness same same sort
of energy, which I which I absolutely love.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that was visually that was That was really awesome.
I like when Jake Suley was on top and he
was shooting at them and then he like go had
to jump off and he's just like sliding down and
it's just intense and everyone gets divided here and the
tiary gets shot in the shoulder and then she falls
down and yeah, just really really crazy sequence. But I
really really liked it. And again, I feel like not
all the ships were destroyed, so some of them got away.
It would have been cool to kind of see them
maybe circle back. One thing to note too is those
navi that were operating the ships, like the scaley Wag types,
they were very well They were well off, well educated.
They're very different from any NAVI we've seen before. All
the other ones very they're very tribal, total village oriented,
and these ones are like no, they more modern, very
much more modern. Yeah, it was crazy and.
Speaker 1: Like very I feel like like when we see other tribes,
they're like super were like what's the word I'm looking for?
Like like our way is our way? We don't really
want to bring out like outsiders in but like these
other ones were totally social, like they were totally fine
with taking Spider and like they weren't really thrown off
that like Spider was there, Like they just seemed like yeah,
like you said, like just more yeah, just more modern,
which like we're using them for like ten minutes, so I.
Speaker 2: Kind of.
Speaker 1: Sale.
Speaker 2: It's like, what the fuck? How do they know all
these terms?
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, I liked all that. What else? What was
I gonna say?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Uh, the whale poatry guy. Last thing I'll say on
this guy his his like right hand man in the
in the last sequence. I swear to god, he's like
the b rate Rock. He looked just like Dwayne the
Rock Johnson, but just like b version. He looked the
same tattoos, pretty jack dude bald, and we went to
him like multiple times, and I'm just like, is this
guy supposed to be Dwayne Johnson? Like like that's literally
what they're going for here.
Speaker 2: It was a big shark tooth necklace or whale tooth
like yeah, like.
Speaker 1: The Mawana MAUI like like shark tooth thing to get
a ma Wana too trailer or a Moana one live
action trailer at our screening. Oh I didn't, he didn't.
I got Odyssey.
Speaker 2: I didn't get on Avengers got Avengers.
Speaker 1: Maybe I went in late actually because I walked in
when the Anaconda trailer was going on.
Speaker 2: Didn't get into Conda. We got Mandalorian and then they
added that actor Mandalorian. Did you and you saw the
extra like fight sequence they threw in at the end
of the trailer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the first trailer i'd see.
Speaker 2: It was the first trailer. Yeah, and I think they
because they added that him fighting the aliens at the
end is like, I think that yet I saw the
game after.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, no, it was the It was the first
time I'd seen any of those trailers actually Odyssey Avengers,
which I kind of just chuckled at. It's just me
and hid allgo we're kind of laughing at that. It's
just like, remember those characters from the last good Avengers
movie that we just that you guys love of, Well,
they're back. People can see our movie.
Speaker 2: People guess they saw that reveal. I heard someone.
Speaker 1: Drop a no way, like, oh, I wish I could
be like that, you know, you know, I love covering
all these things. Obviously doing the podcast is fun, but
like I kind of missed that, Like, first time I
see a trailers in the theater and like, oh my god,
he's back, like they're doing another one with him. That's crazy.
And the big countdown that happened, it was like one year.
It was nice exactly. Yeah, And dude, the Odyssey, Holy fuck,
I'm excited for that movie.
Speaker 2: Didn't get a trailer, but I'm excited.
Speaker 1: For you, July, I believe released for that.
Speaker 2: Back to uh, the Whaler here, we don't.
Speaker 1: Have to unless you have something to say on the Whaler?
Speaker 2: Did you have any more on the Whaler?
Speaker 1: Just the Michael beat. Not Michael. This is his friend,
his buddy Rock. Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2: I liked it. When you know their whole fleet gets
fucking decimating, he's like, all right, we got a drop
to do, let's go. Yeah, and e rate discount. John
Johnson is just like, what are you seriously serious?
Speaker 1: There's one hundred billion dollars in that code, which so
fucking stupid.
Speaker 2: When when the ship, their main capital ship, gets destroyed,
I guess the general stays on board because she's like
evacuate the ship because its getting sucked up into the
like helium vortex thing. But then it cuts to the
bridge and it shows her like doing a dolphin dive
and fucking explodes, So she just died for no reason.
Speaker 1: But like there's like a scene too, like yeah, because
she says like like abandoned ship and then everybody scatters,
but the next scene is like them all just back
on on. It was like that scene was like filmed
out of order or something. It was really weird and bad.
But then it goes to like a like a shot
of her and she like turns around and her face. Dude,
it's like it's like Marvin Harry level like whole like
like it is such a goofy reaction. I just I
laugh so hard. And that general character I'm not a
fan of at all. I will not miss her way
of water. She was annoying. Here you're less, so I
guess because she has less scenes, but like still she
was just so annoying. Not a fan of that character
at all. And she has no power at all, Like
like she she's like Boston around like the CEO guy.
But then like Kortz just does whatever the fuck he wants.
Like he's just like like he's like, yeah, I know,
we're not gonna do that. We're just gonna do my plan,
and like nothing really happens weird.
Speaker 2: Well, that's that's a repeat of the first movie, because
that's CEO guy he comes in, which alludes to do
I need to talk to the chairman. It's like, Okay,
who's this big battie that's kind of pulling the strings
and organizing everything here? I'm curious about that. But he
comes in and he just like in the first movie,
he's trying to, you know, establish the order of things
and this is how it goes, shareholders whatever and money.
But then it's always the military. And the first one,
Korch takes control from him and just leads a whole
military war, and then in this one it's the same thing.
The military general is like, I'll have you in cuffs,
and he's like and they drag him away because he's like,
you can't kill Spider like all this shit, right, The
military just keeps taking control in these movies, and they
keep getting fucking annihilated. Yeah, that's my friend.
Speaker 1: It's fair Rance. I I mean, I don't really have
notes going off the top of my head, but uh,
I've been kind of just looking at the poster and
going at like in order of all the characters, kind
of hitting my main points, and I feel like we've
kind of covered all of them. Low Ac. We didn't
really talk about him a lot, but like I didn't really.
Speaker 2: I thought he was gonna kill you so much. I
thought he was gonna let trigger and do himself in
I really did.
Speaker 1: It's pretty fucked up too, because like he almost did
it and then like three seconds later his girlfriend and
his sister come around, so like they literally would have
just found him brains blown out on the beach. Like
that's how they would have found him. That's pretty fucking dark.
Speaker 2: And so magic healed him or something did.
Speaker 1: Like the moan thing which he's saving Spider. Oh, Like
that scene went on way too long, man, that was
so weird. It's one thing to have like a couple,
but like I swear that scene like went from them
to another scene and then back to them, and she's
still just doing her mones and they pass out.
Speaker 2: It means that she was doing at least for like
an hour.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is very bizarre, very bizarre.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think I'm getting tired, But I really don't have
much more to say on this movie. What about you?
Speaker 2: I don't really have much else. No, that's it.
Speaker 1: Actually, I'm gonna double emphasize this because I've been railing
on it. Best fucking visuals I think I've seen on
a live action movie. It is that stellar highly recommended
three D.
Speaker 2: I like on par considering they were done back to back.
Say it again on par with two's visuals, considering that
they were filmed back.
Speaker 1: Well, like, I rewatched it obviously at home, not in
three D, so like it didn't look as good as
what the theater experience would have been. And I was
trying to remember, like if the second movie looked that good.
I'm sure it looked better than the first movie, maybe
less so than this one, just because you know time,
I guess, but uh, they probably were on part but
like just multiple times while I was watching it, I'm
just like, I don't understand how it's so smooth looking,
Like when I go to movies, it's not that smooth,
Like sometimes you get like the fps weird, like it
just looks a little bit leggy, but like not like
it looks so smooth and so clean, And with three
D it's always like, oh I just get nauseous watching
a three D movie, But like it it looked so good,
so I'll tip.
Speaker 2: Use a lot of waters Cameron to make this movie.
Speaker 1: The water look gorgeous. Everything looks so good, and there's
so much like you know, remember the great movie Morbius.
There's so many moments in that, or even like the
first Venom movie, there's so many moments where it's like
a cement truck of just you can't see anything that's
going on. There's just cgi characters rolling around, and multiple
times in this movie there is action scene with like
tens of thousands of moving parts. Whether it's the ships,
whether it's the whales, whether it's the flyers on the water,
maybe it's the flyers under the water, maybe it's the
flyers in the air. There's so much stuff going on
and I can still like discern everything that's going on.
I'm not gonna say I know who's on which team
because there's a lot of different novie looking motherfuckers out there,
but like to just have all of those movie pieces
and not be like, I have no idea what's going on?
Come on, Like, even if you hate the script, you
have to at least appreciate the visuals. I think of that,
and if you can't, I feel like you're just kind
of lying to yourself. There you know, little minor shot there,
dyl Muss maybe, but I really appreciate the visual of
this movie, and I expect more of the same if
we get that next one, which I haven't checked, like
predictions for the box office or like what's it called?
Like the what's it called when it's.
Speaker 2: Projections?
Speaker 1: Projections? Thank you? Like I haven't looked at any of that,
but judge about my theater, and like the fact that
this is Avatar, I feel like this is just gonna
be a big money maker. Yeah, I don't know, I'm
running spot on.
Speaker 2: No you said that spot On. The visuals are unmatched,
especially in a day and age where CGI is very
questionable and you run into a lot of very bad scenes.
Like I would love to get back to that era
of two thousand early two thousand, thousand and five CGI,
like Davy Jones and just all the other movies that
were popping off then. That just looks so damn good,
like they just knew what they were doing back then,
and now there's just so.
Speaker 1: Much better than that bad.
Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, So I just think that we're on the
right track. And if you're gonna do movies that explore
fantastical things like this, you gotta have, you know, CGI
that is at least I know it's expensive technology, but
don't make it shitty. At least have it somewhat in
that same category of what is what Avatar produces. And
I'm not saying you need the high expensive cameras underwater
and all that crazy shit, but just kind of match
up because Avatar creates a beautiful world. When I see
the grass and the water and everything, I just want
to lay in that water and just fucking drink the
whole ocean. It just looks like it would just give
me eternal youth and just roll around in the grass
and just climb the trees, like, oh, it just looks fantastic.
So they definitely do a fantastic jump bringing the world
to life. And you're right, all the moving parts, whether
it's them walking at nighttime and then they start to glow,
and then walking through the swamp and the swamp water's glowing,
or you know, you're in the courch's interrogation room with
Spider and he's just talking there and then his tail
is like moving in the background doing his own thing.
It just there's so many little subtleties that they throw
in there, which makes it worthwhile to watch not just
like a second time, but a third time or a
fourth time, because you're going to see things that you miss.
And I still see things first movie and that second
movie that I miss when I rewatched them, So I
think that adds a lot more rewatchability totally.
Speaker 1: What do you think? Number wise? I kind of didn't
think about this till now, So.
Speaker 2: I wish I knew I'm gonna judge one. I'm sorry,
I wish I knew what I gave the second one.
Speaker 1: Do you know what you gave me to? Actually I don't.
I kind of meant to pop up the review to
listen to it because it's interesting because first movie. I
still really love Second movie. I think just because it
had been so much time from that first movie to
seeing an Avatar in theaters and like, like the visual
jump was just so spectacular. I was kind of just
blown away by that, which I still am in this movie.
Don't don't get me wrong, but I think I'm just
giving it less of a pass on like some of
the writing stuff, because I was just so blown away
visually from that second one, and then also today looking
through all of them and then just kind of see
where we falter. I still have this movie higher than
the second movie, just because we spend a lot of
time like there's no intergory really in that second, like
she's there but not really doing anything, and we spend
a lot of time with like the kids and stuff,
which I just don't really care too much about. Unfortunately
this movie. I like stuff that's introduced, but like so
much waste of potential really brings it down for me.
But I would still put it above Way of Water.
So all of that being said, I think I would
give Way of Water. I'm bringing this up just to
have a comparison, I guess, but I think that would
be maybe more in the sixth range, and this I
would have, Like I think I'm gonna put it at
clean seven just to seven out of ten. I think
I think that's a fine spot to put it now,
because I maybe at most it would be like a
seven point twenty five, but I'm gonna keep it at
a seven right now, just because I was really frustrated
with with Jake Suley, really frustrated with the lack there
of ash people visuals obviously being like the biggest positive
of this movie for me and all of the goofy
moments that are like you can you can just say
is terrible writing. I had fun with. I appreciated I
I love that chorus was smashing this Ashley, that's that's
hilarious character. Yeah, Jake Suley almost murdering Spider like that
was such a funny scene to watch. So yeah, overall
scope of the movie, like the movie quality brings it down,
but like enjoyment wise brings it up honestly in my mind,
So I think I'm okay with that there. Fuck the whales.
The whales would be like the biggest hit for why
I don't go above a seven, I think, And honestly
it could maybe sink a little bit lower than that,
But I'm I'm pretty okay with leaving at the seven
there because the visuals are just are just that good
and I like it's like a what three three and
a half hour movie. I we had a lot of
fun with this, Like it was a fun movie going
experience for me, and I would recommend it to people
that are not super deterred by by what the story is,
because there is those people out there that just they
fucking hate the Nave, they hate the blue people, and
I get that they hate the script of what these
movies are. It's totally okay. I wouldn't recommend the movie
to those people because it's still that and it's a
long movie. I do get that, but man visually, for
a great movie going experience, I had a fun time
with this m.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well said I. Again. I couldn't remember what my
weir Water rating was, but I checked my letter box
and I gave it a four and a half out
of five stars. So I feel a lot of respect
where Water. I feel like I gave that a little
too high of a rating now after seeing this, and
I feel like I would change things a bit because
this was definitely above Way of Water. But this is
not a ten out of ten movie. So I need
to go in and I need to alter the dynamic
there a little bit.
Speaker 1: That's fair.
Speaker 2: I know that first one as a ten out of
ten for me. I love that first one, So I'm
gonna say that this one is going to be Tentively
I'm gonna go I'm gonna say an eight point five
out of ten. I want to go nine. But I
think there's just a lot of things that they didn't
capitalize on that worked for me and I'm gonna have to,
like I said, bring down My Way of Water score
a little bit just to be under eight point five.
Maybe I'll just say it's at an eight. But yeah,
I think this movie. It had strong moments and had
things I really liked. I'm glad that we got certain
characters to be brought back into the limelight again. That
was fantastic, But at its core, other characters got shafted.
Other moments that I wanted to see didn't happen, and
I feel like we didn't get a lot of exposition
on certain certain things and themes that they established in
this movie that is just new to us, because you know,
we're visiting Pandora, and every time you visit Pandora, you
get something new and exciting, and you need a little
bit of context for that, not just a quick, little
one sentence while you're hopped up on flute drugs in
a tent. But it is some strong shit. Another thing
that I like, too with the jar Heads is when
like smile bitches and courts like what do you got here?
He's like, well, a guy from immaging. I promised him
a case of beer if you'd let you look at this.
When just seeing the Navvy talk like this is just
it just cracks me up. I love the Call of
Duty Navvy. But yeah, I feel good about that review.
I feel good about that rating, and I do think, yeah, you,
this is definitely worth it to see in theaters. Like
we already talked about, it was a good time. The
visuals are unbelievable. I've not seen anything like really match
with this. I wish that Jurassic World could come close
to visuals like this. I think it's a sin that
Drastic World doesn't. I mean, the only way Dassic World
could beat this is if they were to go back
to practical effects and just get some of that nineteen
ninety three CGI from the original Drastic Park sprinkle that
in there. But nope, we're just going full CGI ahead,
but not the same CGI that they used an avatar
and it's noticeable, but I digress. So yeah, that's uh.
I think that does it for me.
Speaker 1: All Right, gentlemen, we finished our avatar fire and ash
suppose review. Let us know what you thought of this.
Go join the discord link will be in description all
that jazz and uh patroon until next time we will.
We'll see you there. We won't be in Kansas. We'll
be on Pandora. Bye Bye,