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That's Chumbuck 26 00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:59.719 casino dot com, No pusses every where, every I lost 27 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:00.159 e terms. 28 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:02.000 Lop to. 29 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:15.359 You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking 30 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.480 Killers in True crime History and the authors that have 31 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:25.840 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 32 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:29.519 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 33 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:34.159 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 34 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:37.079 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 35 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:50.560 Good evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 36 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:53.719 program True Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime 37 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:57.239 history and the authors that have written about them. The 38 00:01:57.319 --> 00:02:01.400 twenty eleven Casey Anthony trial came the most sensational news 39 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:04.920 story of the year. Time magazine called it the social 40 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:08.319 media trial of the century. The twenty two year old 41 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:11.840 single mum was charged with three felonies, including first degree murder, 42 00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:17.599 aggravated child abuse, and manslaughter. When pictures surfaced on the 43 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.199 Internet showing her at a night club shortly after her 44 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.599 two year old daughter, Kaylee went missing, the media in 45 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:29.080 public went ballistic. Thirty one days passed after Caylee disappeared 46 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:32.400 before police were notified, and then it was not mother Casey, 47 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:35.360 but her family that called police and they were pointing 48 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:39.039 fingers at her. The trial resembled in many ways the 49 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:43.199 Roman Colosseum, where crowds thirsted to see lions devour the 50 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:47.719 captured prisoner. Internet blogs exploded, just as the Roman crowds 51 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:51.960 must have, with demands for execution. The trials. Streaming videos 52 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:54.560 and interactive blogs left the public demanding to see an 53 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:58.719 embodiment of Caesar give his final thumbs down against their prize. 54 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:03.680 Raal jury was another matter. Jurors cried as the evidence 55 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:06.319 against her was so thin that they had no choice 56 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:11.719 but to find Casey Anthony not guilty. Almost unnoticed, a 57 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:15.159 few leading journalists protested the media carnival that became the 58 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:19.120 Casey Anthony trial. They objected to the one sided narrative 59 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:22.159 informing the court of public opinion forgetting there is a 60 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:26.840 difference between someone appearing guilty and the requirement that prosecutors 61 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:29.800 need to prove in court. The media's coverage is something 62 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:33.560 we should discuss, beginning with did police arrest the wrong person? 63 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.280 Was the jury right deciding Casey Anthony was not guilty? 64 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:40.080 Was Casey's mother involved in a cover up of a 65 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:44.879 crime against Kayley, and who was Cindy protecting Casey or 66 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:49.479 her husband George. The book that we're discussing this evening 67 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:52.639 and the story that we were discussing this evening is 68 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:56.120 the media's court of public opinion Casey Anthony, with my 69 00:03:56.199 --> 00:04:00.360 special guest Keith Long. Journalist and author Keith longcome to 70 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:02.360 the program, and thank you for agreeing to this interview. 71 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:03.039 Keith Long. 72 00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:06.680 Thank you so much. Dan. It's my pleasure to be here. 73 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:10.319 And I've never heard my own words expressed so well 74 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:11.000 as you just did. 75 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:15.719 Well, thank you very much. Now, this, as you know, 76 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.639 and of course anyone that's going to tune into this 77 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:22.240 program and hopefully for those who that listen unless they've 78 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:26.000 been on another planet, everyone is familiar with this, very 79 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:30.319 familiar with this case and this trial and this entire story. 80 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:35.439 And it is fair to say that Casey Anthony is 81 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:41.360 one of the most reviled persons in America and possibly worldwide, 82 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:45.079 but especially America. When you see the extent with Halloween 83 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:49.160 Max people going out for Halloween, it's Casey Anthony's. It 84 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:54.319 really was a circus and a carnival and very you know, 85 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:59.160 obviously interesting story that that fascinated. 86 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.399 A lot of people to that point, Dan, And I'm 87 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:05.399 a research journalist and the article, part of the article 88 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:09.240 you quoted from was for my article for Harvard Harvard's 89 00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:14.120 NIEME Information for Journalism, and my editor for the project 90 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:19.399 was Barry Sussman, who was some people recognized the name. 91 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:23.480 He was Bob Woodwards and Kyle Bernstein's editor for the 92 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:27.560 Washington Post when they exposed the Watergate series. So his 93 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:33.519 standards for sourcing for the content of the article were very, 94 00:05:33.879 --> 00:05:38.399 very high, and I maintained that same high standard for 95 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:42.279 my sourcing in my book. And also I might mention 96 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:46.800 I as have a backup source for your comment about 97 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:51.800 Kasey Anthony being the most reviled and hated person in America. 98 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:55.319 Certainly there were two polls down of course, in twenty 99 00:05:55.480 --> 00:06:01.120 eleven after she was acquitted, found her the most in America, 100 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:05.000 and then a year after she had been in seclusion, 101 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:08.600 in twenty twelve and a year after her acquittal, she 102 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:12.120 was voted again the most stated person in America. So 103 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:13.639 you're right on target with your. 104 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:21.079 Analysis right now. The thing is is that there's a 105 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:24.040 big difference between and we don't want to harp on 106 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:25.920 this and go back into this. Can anybody listened to 107 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:30.600 this program is not a novice and not a person 108 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:33.519 that is coming to this subject and these types of 109 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:37.240 conversations for the first time. So let's not deal with 110 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:39.959 those people, because there's not any of those really listening 111 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:44.240 to this program. I'm sure. Obviously the prosecution didn't have 112 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:49.199 didn't present their case in a strong enough fashion or 113 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:54.319 a they just did not state their case effectively. Hence 114 00:06:54.399 --> 00:07:00.759 the jury made the decision to acquit Casey Anthony. So 115 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:03.839 let's not go there. They obviously the jury and the 116 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.680 system and and so some people say, well, you know, 117 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:11.000 the system worked or the judicial system. It was a 118 00:07:11.079 --> 00:07:14.079 circumstantial case. Obviously everyone knows that. 119 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:18.079 Can I make one comment about that point? 120 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:20.720 Okay? Uh. 121 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:25.439 The what was interesting in my research for the trial 122 00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:32.360 was the jury's uh, there's settlers and didn't make public 123 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:36.959 comments about their liberations, about what they thought about Casey, 124 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:41.879 why they voted to a quit and the rest of 125 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:46.199 them were afraid to say anything public and they've been 126 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:51.720 in effectively in hiding Aaron Panallas County, Florida, which is 127 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:55.959 the Tampa Bay area roughly speaking on the west coast 128 00:07:56.040 --> 00:08:00.000 where I live. Uh, And you won't they're trying to 129 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:02.839 disguise who they are, the fact that they were members 130 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:06.560 of the jury to every level they can and because 131 00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:09.319 a lot of them got their threats, a lot of 132 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:16.399 them were objects of abuse and the derision for their decision. 133 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:21.800 But from my standpoint as a research journalist, Dan, what 134 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:25.600 they said was what the foreman confirmed in a one 135 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:27.399 hour actually I think it was a two hour, two 136 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:31.360 part interview on television, was that the jury was not 137 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:36.360 sympathetic to the defendant. They did not like a sandem, 138 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:41.879 they didn't want to accord and for me as a 139 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:48.200 research journalist, that gives credibility for their decision. They cried 140 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:55.360 when they voted to acquit. These are emotional reactions that jurors. Example, 141 00:08:55.399 --> 00:08:59.679 in the OJ case, I speak to bar associations here 142 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:05.600 in order, and colleges and law schools, and I compare 143 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:10.120 the OJ case to the Casey Anthony case. And of 144 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:16.000 course my own opinion is that OJ was guilty and 145 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:20.399 that the jury acquitted him despite the fact that they 146 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:25.679 the evidence in that case strongly suggested that he was guilty. 147 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:29.159 But the difference in terms of the jury is the 148 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:34.679 jury was very sympathetic to OJ. In fact, they invoked 149 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:41.879 something called jury nullification, which is a recognized legal authority 150 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:47.159 that juries have in America to nullify a law by 151 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:52.000 trying the law and not the facts. Juries are finders 152 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:56.000 of fact, that's the way they're referred to, but they 153 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:59.399 can also be finders of law and reject a law. 154 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:03.200 That's a recognized right that goes back to Peter's anger 155 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:08.720 in Colonel America. And in the LJ case, that's what 156 00:10:08.840 --> 00:10:12.519 they did. They rejected the law. But in the case 157 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:14.840 there was entirely different. 158 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:19.279 Well, you know, I don't want to go too much 159 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:22.639 on a detour, but you have me at OJ. Okay, 160 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:27.320 So here's my analysis of the OJ Simpson case. And 161 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:28.639 we're just going to put it out there and we're 162 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:30.039 not going to spend too much time on this. But 163 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:33.519 this is the way I looked at This is hard, hard, 164 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:35.159 and long. I wish I would be looking at it 165 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:38.720 right now instead of back in ninety three, ninety four 166 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:41.279 or whatever it was when it first happened. And then 167 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:46.440 the trial Robert Shapiro part of the dream team of 168 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:49.480 ten lawyers at one hundred thousand dollars a month that 169 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:53.039 OJ was able to hire court and as well as 170 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:56.559 Henry Lee to sit on the forensic fence for the defense, 171 00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:59.360 and that costs a lot of money as well, and 172 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:03.159 a lot of anyway, a lot of discussion to be 173 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:04.919 able to get Henry Lee to be able to sort 174 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:07.320 of lean on the fence. And again, please let's not 175 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:10.879 go down that detour talking about that. But ten lawyers 176 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:17.320 and Robert Shapiro quit during a trial because of what 177 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:22.080 Johnny Cochrane how he wanted to address the jury. And 178 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:27.159 according to my information, Shapiro quit, and this is pretty rare. 179 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:30.200 He quit because he didn't like what Johnny Cochran was 180 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:32.879 going to do with the jurors. And he planned and 181 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.639 did say are you willing you black people in this 182 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:40.720 jury willing to go back into your black communities? Being 183 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:44.600 the person that handed this decision in this unfair racist 184 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:50.559 LA Police Department and with the Mark Furman and inadequate, 185 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:53.679 I mean, how could you? How can you go toe 186 00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:56.960 to toe with ten of the best defense lawyers in 187 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:01.279 America with expertise in every know That's the way I 188 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:04.679 looked at the O. J. Simpson case. Well, sure is 189 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:06.840 just regular folks that have nothing better to do and 190 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:09.480 are silly enough to want to be on a juror 191 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.559 a be a jur I think it's silly to go 192 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:15.440 through murder trials and have to see crime scene photos 193 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:18.480 and under the guys that you're doing something for your 194 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:22.720 for your community or for your country. I mean, I 195 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:26.240 don't know anyway, sorry, but you had. 196 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:30.080 You have to invite me back and we can talk 197 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.480 about that, your your opinions that have provoked a lot 198 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:37.240 of thoughts and and very interesting discussion for me. But 199 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:38.960 as you say, we don't want to do it tonight, 200 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:41.039 but a very interesting subject. 201 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:46.679 Now. The thing is with Casey Anthony, and I might 202 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:49.639 as well get this out there right now. What you 203 00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:54.000 really start your your article with is that you know 204 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:58.320 there was a media circus, uh, you know, the irresponsible media, 205 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:00.960 and we can say name some names. Nancy Grace was 206 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:06.639 unbelievable during this, but there was other names as well. Again, 207 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:09.279 this is not really in dispute that the media. There 208 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:12.960 was some irresponsible members of the media rushing to judgment. 209 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.320 And what I wanted to say too is I had 210 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:18.039 and I guess I was part of that media circus too. 211 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.000 I had Diane Fanning on Saint Martin's Press, Mummy's Little 212 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:25.519 Girl and the story of Casey Anthony prior to the trial. 213 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:29.679 And that was interesting to me because I had not 214 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:34.799 seen that, especially in a murder trial that was you know, 215 00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:38.600 upcoming soon, soon to come, and yet a book was 216 00:13:38.679 --> 00:13:41.480 out prior to the trial, and then it was very 217 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:47.200 interesting tell us about that. What was your conversation with 218 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:49.879 Dan Fanning wrote the book, and so what was your 219 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.120 conversation with her, like what was the kind of things 220 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:54.799 that you had to discuss and tell us? 221 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:59.000 Well, it was a short discussion. I was, I told 222 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:02.960 her interested in the subject and my research and so forth, 223 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:09.200 and she basically just pointed out that she was writing 224 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:13.000 her story before the verdict came in and before all 225 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:18.600 the evidence was in, but she felt compelled to write 226 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:21.399 about the story because it was the center of attention 227 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:29.360 in America and certainly on TV. And she was you know, basically, 228 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.279 she was not We didn't get into a lot of 229 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:36.120 discussion or conversation. It was just kind of a touch 230 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:42.639 base conversation two journalists that her think about the same subject. 231 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:48.120 Okay, Yeah, And I was surprised myself too to be 232 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:50.519 able to you know, have her back on and discuss 233 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:54.720 how she felt, you know, about writing a book and 234 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:57.799 then having this looking like a foregone conclusion and then 235 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:02.000 certainly not. The other thing that I have is that 236 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:05.559 if you say that in the court of public opinion, 237 00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:09.600 Casey Anthony was you know, it was a rush to judgment, 238 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:13.799 obviously attacking her character, and it was everyone knows it 239 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:19.039 was a circus. But what are you saying about it 240 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:22.919 when you're saying about Casey Anthony's innocence? Why can't you 241 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:25.919 just why are you not content to just leave it there? 242 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:30.320 Why are you compelled to? And we won't get to 243 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:32.480 that point yet, but let's let's just talk about why 244 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:35.440 are you at least not just compelled to talk about 245 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:40.240 and analyze and dissect why Casey Anthony really you know, 246 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:42.519 of course she was acquitted by the juror why is 247 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:46.279 she not guilty? Right? 248 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:52.480 It's a you know, that's a fundamental pivotal question and 249 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:56.240 point about the whole subject, dan uh And and what 250 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:03.440 attracted me to the story, the one sided narrative of 251 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.759 the subject as a journalist, and I kept looking for 252 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:14.320 a journalist guideline, not a analyst guideline or commentator, but 253 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:18.480 a journalist guideline. When you take a story subject, you 254 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:22.080 may be given marching orders by your editor to say, Okay, 255 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:25.200 here's the story. The evidence looks overwhelming against this person, 256 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:27.679 and we're going to cover this story, and we're going 257 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.320 to show this evidence in our article or in our piece. 258 00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:35.679 But we also have to show the other side. Sometimes 259 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:37.759 it's towards the end of the article, and sometimes it's 260 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.799 a fraction of the space of the whole article. But 261 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:46.559 at least you hear as strong and as compelling a 262 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:49.799 presentation for the other side as you can muster, as 263 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.200 you can find as a journalist and as a reporter. 264 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.960 And I kept waiting to find that in some kind 265 00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:00.840 of journalistic outlet, and it was never there. And so 266 00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:05.799 I talked to Barry Suspen and he felt that it 267 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:09.000 was a media circus. But he said, look, he said, 268 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:14.000 you can present me your story, but I'm going to 269 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:16.920 need strict sourcing, and you're going to have to convince 270 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:21.079 me before I publish it. The Nieman Foundation for Journalism 271 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:27.079 is a very respected, top of the line operation, and 272 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:29.559 they are not going to put anything out there that 273 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:35.359 is strongly sourced, strictly sourced, and credible. And I accepted 274 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:38.839 that standard, and he was very happy to publish. And 275 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.799 so to answer your question, why don't I just leave 276 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.599 it by a statement for an argument that Casey Anthony 277 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:49.000 is innocent and let it go of that. There's much 278 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:53.279 more involved in this story, the media and the public. 279 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:57.200 And here again then you can recall the scenes at 280 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:02.640 the courthouse where jerked or fighting amongst themselves to get 281 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:05.279 in line so that they could be a witness to 282 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:11.640 what everybody understood and believed would be a execution decision, 283 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.799 or at least a guilty decision for this defendant. And 284 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:20.319 that's why I said in my piece that it resemble 285 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:24.240 the days of the Roman Colosseum. Well, that's not America. 286 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:27.319 That's not the America that I live in or want 287 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:31.319 to do it. And of course she was the object 288 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:36.400 of bullying, but everybody is so convinced because of her 289 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:40.240 behavior after the death of her daughter that she had 290 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:47.200 to be guilty. Nobody would the consensus is, and not 291 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:52.440 an unreasonable consensus, but the consensus is nobody could witness 292 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.119 or find the death of their two year old daughter 293 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.960 and then not report it. And she never reported it. 294 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:05.799 It wasn't her that that eventually determined that the child 295 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.599 that died. It was the body was found six months later, 296 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:12.160 and it wasn't her that reported the death to police. 297 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:15.440 It was her mother. Police arrested her. 298 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:19.680 So let's you know what, let's let's not you know, 299 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.000 that's the thing is, let's not go too much into 300 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:24.559 rehashing the evidence, because then we can have we can 301 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:28.440 have a fire firestorm here of well, that's not exactly 302 00:19:28.519 --> 00:19:30.839 how I went down, and we can you know, retry 303 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:34.440 the case here to a certain degree. What I would 304 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:39.039 like to look at is and of course, again I'm 305 00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:42.759 not trying to edit what you're trying to say here. Again, 306 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.960 I can agree that that everything that everybody that's listening 307 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.200 to this program witnessed for themselves as well, because it 308 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:55.160 dominated everything. Is that it now in hindsight or if 309 00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:00.319 they were to look at it, say the next person 310 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:02.799 or the next person or the next person, because you know, 311 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.240 the judicial system of America sometimes gets it wrong. That 312 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.599 if you have this media circus and it's wrong now 313 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.480 people think that Casey Anthony is guilty and beat the 314 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:15.480 murder rap and the jury was silly and it was 315 00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:22.319 nonsensical and the defense through you know, through conjecture, and 316 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:24.400 again that's a big word. And I can have the 317 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:28.920 definition of what conjecture is is that that the father, George, 318 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:32.680 was the killer. But again he hasn't been tried. He 319 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:38.759 was that Any and all involvement in this was investigated 320 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:40.720 by the police. There were no charges laid. There are 321 00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:43.400 no there was no talk of charges to be laid. 322 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:46.160 The judge in the trial, the presiding judge in the trial, 323 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:48.839 said he felt this is after the trial, that there 324 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:53.640 was ample evidence to convict Casey Anthony. There's been talking 325 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:57.119 of jurors not really paying attention to certain evidence, and 326 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:00.240 again that's just some kind of story because I I 327 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:02.279 don't have that evidence. 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But in my 354 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:04.759 law eighteen plus terms and conditions applying any website for details. 355 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:07.559 I don't know what kind of evidence that would be, 356 00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:14.640 you know, overwhelming to me? So of that, so maybe 357 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:16.920 I shouldn't even have said that. Let's discount I said 358 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:21.720 anything about the jury. Jury. But getting back to this 359 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:25.000 situation here, just because jurors. 360 00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:29.599 I can add the Attorney General Pam Bondi that quote 361 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:31.960 nobody there's nobody else in the world that could have 362 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:35.920 done this to Kayley except Casey Anthony. But she said 363 00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:37.279 it before the trial even began. 364 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:42.000 Yeah, but that's called politics, isn't it. Because everybody's trying 365 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:44.720 to get elected and re elected and make political points. 366 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:49.920 Because so that's it's irresponsible. It's totally irresponsible, and it's 367 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.559 it's not a yeah, it's it's wrong. It's wrong for 368 00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:57.960 people to but it is a good example in the 369 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:02.839 analysis is that I think people shouldn't judge people by 370 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:07.440 their posts say this behavior a couple of days later, necessarily, 371 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:09.799 But then again, this is the age that we are 372 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:13.720 in where there's video of almost everything, and you have 373 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:16.880 people like Nancy Grace who should know better, she's a 374 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:22.480 former prosecutor, and yet you know, television stations should be 375 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:29.960 more responsible. Publishing companies certainly don't, as per typical published 376 00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:34.319 books before trials are finished, trying I mean, the only 377 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.440 reason you would do that is try to capitalize on 378 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:41.920 the momentum, capitalize on that furor by being the first right, 379 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:45.359 Isn't that What else other motivation would that be? Since 380 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:46.000 they don't do that. 381 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:50.079 In the case of hl N, and that's the station 382 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:53.319 that Nancy Grace is on, they have, in my opinion, 383 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:56.880 a kind of a business model that has been very 384 00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.960 successful for them, very lucrative for them. Business model is 385 00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:05.279 pretty apparent to me and I don't say this because 386 00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:09.960 I have any feeling because of the way they cover 387 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:13.359 this particular trial at all. I really don't, just as 388 00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:18.319 an objective evaluator. Their business model is to find an 389 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:22.839 accused that can attract national tension and then to bullieve 390 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:27.599 the accused up one side and down the other, unrelated 391 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:32.440 and that's their business model, and it's very successful to 392 00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:37.319 a certain audience. And for me, I only say that 393 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:40.799 just to acknowledge it and to be aware of it 394 00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:43.200 so that when I Channel Surf and run by the station, 395 00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:46.759 I just kind of understand that's what I'm going to see. 396 00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:53.279 Well, you know, our beloved corporation in Canada, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. 397 00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:55.640 This is their side. This is the way they deal 398 00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:58.519 with both sides of the story. They present their story 399 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:04.480 and then and they ask the opponent in this story, 400 00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:07.599 the bad guy in this story, the subject or target 401 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:11.160