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Speaker 6: The all right, we're back for another open forum debate,
Speaker 6: and the reason for today's open form is if we
Speaker 6: had some interesting exchanges once again on X As you
Speaker 6: can imagine. Basically, there was a statement that Daniel Kikachu,
Speaker 6: who have already debated, wants to do the debate together
Speaker 6: with I don't know who, presumably Jake, I'm not sure,
Speaker 6: and Muhammed hit Job will not do it, so he
Speaker 6: bowed out.
Speaker 3: I will have.
Speaker 6: Hanged this over to Jake and Hikikachu. I don't know
Speaker 6: why he can't defend his position. I think isn't he
Speaker 6: does any brag about memorizing the Quran or something, so
Speaker 6: it seems like he would be able to debate it.
Speaker 6: I don't know, maybe he doesn't do debates. I haven't
Speaker 6: kept up, but we've already debated Daniel and Jake. I mean,
Speaker 6: if that's what we have to end up doing, that's fine.
Speaker 6: Of course Sam has already agreed to it, so they're
Speaker 6: like Sam is running. So Daniel puts up a tweet
Speaker 6: saying that everyone will run or excuse me, that Sam
Speaker 6: will run and that I will run, even though I've
Speaker 6: already debated both him and Jake. Of the comments in
Speaker 6: the comments section of Modern Day Debate, which is like
Speaker 6: thousands of comments that Daniel lost. But we're scared. I'm scared.
Speaker 6: We're both scared. We're running, We're we're canceling. That's what
Speaker 6: Daniel claims. Let me find Daniel's tweet here, because I mean,
Speaker 6: they're like, there's such gas letters. They don't even like,
Speaker 6: they're like, you made this up. The Sam slow backed
Speaker 6: out of two debates. It's weird. He wets himself when
Speaker 6: he hears my name. I think Jay Dyer one which
Speaker 6: is not me, some other that's some black dude. And
Speaker 6: Sam told Myron that they would not debate me and
Speaker 6: Jake because it would be an instant loss. Now Daniel
Speaker 6: knows he's just saying this for attention, because we all
Speaker 6: know what the comments say. Underneath the modern day debate
Speaker 6: channels debate that I had with Daniel, and they're ninety
Speaker 6: nine percent laughing at Daniel. So they play these games
Speaker 6: and they gaslight everybody as if they've dominated in every debate.
Speaker 6: It's the same thing that the Romanchalvics do. Ready to
Speaker 6: do this exact same thing. Even if the comments are
Speaker 6: ninety nine percent that Daniel was demolished, the Muslims go
Speaker 6: and cheer that they won the debate. And it's the
Speaker 6: same with the Jake debate. Everybody's making fun of Jake,
Speaker 6: getting it mad and yelling and gibbering and shaking like
Speaker 6: he's got Parkinson's. And then they're all like, he won,
Speaker 6: he wanted a bit, he wanted a.
Speaker 2: Bit he want'.
Speaker 6: That's my remix. That's the remix of it right there. Anyway,
Speaker 6: we're gonna goead and open it up because there's not
Speaker 6: much time because the entire world will be watching Elon
Speaker 6: Musk and Donald Trump. I don't know if you guys
Speaker 6: ever heard of them. Are you all familiar with those two?
Speaker 6: Have you heard of Trump or Musquet? Many of you
Speaker 6: probably have not. They will be interviewing here soon, so
Speaker 6: we might as well get started, because I'm sure everybody
Speaker 6: will be watching that instead. Andrew Meyer is in the mix.
Speaker 6: Uh oh uh oh oh oh.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 6: I was hoping the Muslims would come. They're always so
Speaker 6: loud and talking so much hot air bravado hutspa I
Speaker 6: believe is the technical term, and it's so hard to
Speaker 6: get them to come debate anyway. It's open for him.
Speaker 6: That means the topics are listed as Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, Arianism,
Speaker 6: Hebrew Roots, et cetera. If a Jewish person would like
Speaker 6: to debate, they can also call in a debate. It's
Speaker 6: open for him. Just keep your topics to those topics.
Speaker 6: That means that if you call in to ask me
Speaker 6: about your favorite poetry reading, your whatever box wine you've
Speaker 6: had as a wine mom, I'm not interested, don't care.
Speaker 6: If you want to talk about basic FAQs, that's not
Speaker 6: for tonight. I'm not doing faus. That happens all the time.
Speaker 6: You can go find all your FAQs elsewhere the topics
Speaker 6: are listed. If you want to talk about potential debates
Speaker 6: with sneak O the circles of Tate hit Job who
Speaker 6: has declined the debate, that's also a topic as well. Andrew,
Speaker 6: what's up, Jay?
Speaker 3: Hey man, I literally just debated Daniel on modern day debate. Oh,
Speaker 3: I don't know that I did a screen.
Speaker 7: Share of my document because I was reading off my
Speaker 7: sources and such, and you know, I always thinking that
Speaker 7: I would even be able to screen shair.
Speaker 2: I didn't know I could do that.
Speaker 7: So my document was called how Pikachu Debate because I
Speaker 7: saw you call him Daniel, how Pikachu?
Speaker 6: So wait, what did you two debate?
Speaker 3: Oh, we were.
Speaker 2: Discussing the Talmud.
Speaker 7: He was telling people that the Talmud gives Jews license
Speaker 7: to rape anybody they want.
Speaker 3: And yeah, that was a very educational bait for Daniel
Speaker 3: and a lot of his viewers.
Speaker 6: Well, no matter how you debate with Daniel and Muslims,
Speaker 6: they will immediately declare that you lost and they will
Speaker 6: clip everything with twenty second clips. So it seems to
Speaker 6: be really just kind of a means to clipping twenty
Speaker 6: second clips is really what it ends up being.
Speaker 7: I will say, you know, some of the people, like
Speaker 7: the first major comment on the YouTube that got likes,
Speaker 7: it's a guy with the Kaba the Islamic rock saying
Speaker 7: Andrew the Jew completely cooked. And another comment was like
Speaker 7: I followed Daniel. I love Daniel, but like Andrew creamed
Speaker 7: and crammed him, is what the guy said.
Speaker 3: So some of them are honest.
Speaker 2: Some of them are honest because it was it was
Speaker 2: pretty much a shutout.
Speaker 6: Okay, well, I'm going over here. We'll look at the comments.
Speaker 6: Anything you want to leave us with, people can go
Speaker 6: check out your debate. I'm interested to watch that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, the Mohammed jab the guy said that it's worse
Speaker 7: to be a Christian than a homosex and in his religion,
Speaker 7: homosexuals deserve death.
Speaker 3: So that's a pretty nasty.
Speaker 2: Thing to say.
Speaker 3: And I think anybody like that.
Speaker 7: Not paying attention to those type of statements, Like I
Speaker 7: think everybody that believes in God, there is an alliance
Speaker 7: that can be made in the world.
Speaker 3: But we have to sort out things like that.
Speaker 2: First.
Speaker 3: You got to be aware of who you're talking to.
Speaker 7: Somebody thinks that you're worse than someone that deserves death,
Speaker 7: you got to be aware of that.
Speaker 6: So is this the debate, the one that's titled is
Speaker 6: the Torah's treatment of non Jews? Ethical?
Speaker 7: Is that it?
Speaker 2: That's it?
Speaker 6: Okay? Yeah, well, thank you Andrew I'll check that out.
Speaker 3: Is it your religion, bro?
Speaker 8: Thank you?
Speaker 6: That is a debate we don't see often. Now, we
Speaker 6: did have a Jewish individual debate the other day. He
Speaker 6: and I were debating the passages in the Torah and
Speaker 6: the prophets. So the accusation that I never debate anyone
Speaker 6: who's Jewish is not true. We just don't simply have
Speaker 6: We simply don't have that many Jews at calling to debate.
Speaker 6: But we had one last week and it went on
Speaker 6: for I don't know, thirty forty five minutes. So it's
Speaker 6: just simply not true. I'm typically open to debating anybody
Speaker 6: if they're sane. I don't debate like totally crazy wacko
Speaker 6: people unless they're really entertaining than we do. So this
Speaker 6: looks like an interesting debate. I would be interested to
Speaker 6: see how this went down. Let's look at Let's see
Speaker 6: what the reactions are, because I want to I want
Speaker 6: to look really quickly at the We'll look at the
Speaker 6: reactions between the debate that I had, not the Torah,
Speaker 6: the Talmud, modern day debate, blah blah blah, Daniel Hikikachu.
Speaker 6: So let's see a lot of Muslims Daniel's entertaining Daniel
Speaker 6: one pleasant conversation Aqem Elijah on at least Jews don't
Speaker 6: force their beliefs on each other. Well, this is a
Speaker 6: difference that I think a lot of people don't take
Speaker 6: into account because people are always saying, why don't you
Speaker 6: debate more Jews. Jews are not really proselytizers, so their
Speaker 6: faith is not centered on making as many converts. So
Speaker 6: that's one reason why there's not a lot of Jewish debates.
Speaker 6: All Daniel does is Gish gallop. I don't like either religion.
Speaker 6: Daniel is a pdf all right, so we'll check that
Speaker 6: one out. If I've ever seen him Muslim versus Jewish debate,
Speaker 6: I've never ever seen that, So that's that will be
Speaker 6: interesting to see. Now, let's see the comments between me
Speaker 6: and Daniel, because those are quite a hoot. Never mind,
Speaker 6: we don't have time for that. You can go read
Speaker 6: those comments on your own if you want to, because
Speaker 6: they're they're a hoot. Let's see, Zerky police be upon me.
Speaker 6: You got on mute bro, all right, we lost we
Speaker 6: lost him. Sam Shamun. Is he in that you're saying
Speaker 6: he's in the quay? Let me see I don't see
Speaker 6: him on here. How are you saying Sam wants to join?
Speaker 6: Sam can join in on the Twitter? Is he not
Speaker 6: use Twitter? If he wants to hop in, he can?
Speaker 6: I don't care. Okay, I know I see your comments,
Speaker 6: but I don't have a I have to switch it
Speaker 6: over to tell Sam to join through the Twitter space,
Speaker 6: and I'll have him on if he hops on the
Speaker 6: Twitter space. But I've already set up this stream to
Speaker 6: where my display is this and it's not collab cam.
Speaker 6: I might could turn on collab cam.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 6: Let me see. Let's see if Sam can join through
Speaker 6: Twitter space first, that would be the easiest, and then
Speaker 6: if he can't, I'll try to see if I can
Speaker 6: change the window capture to collab cam. I Mike can
Speaker 6: do that in the middle of a stream. I don't
Speaker 6: know if I've tried that before. So, but the easiest
Speaker 6: thing would be if Sam can just join the Twitter space.
Speaker 6: He messages me on Skype, I can't play the If
Speaker 6: I play Sam's message, it'll shut down the Twitter space.
Speaker 6: So the easiest thing is if he just joins up.
Speaker 6: Let's see Cody, I'm.
Speaker 3: Hello Jay, Hey, how's it going, brother? What's up, man,
Speaker 3: not much, man, thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 9: I just wanted to talk about Protestantism and I wanted
Speaker 9: to just bring up what do you what do you
Speaker 9: think about the one Bible verse that says that wherever
Speaker 9: more than one and gather something like that, then I
Speaker 9: shall be there too. A lot of Protestants used that
Speaker 9: to justify the idea that the church felt a way
Speaker 9: and that there was need for reformation.
Speaker 2: What do you think about that?
Speaker 6: Well, this actually goes back to the Jewish tradition because
Speaker 6: Jews had this idea that you need a certain number
Speaker 6: of people there to have what's the term that he's
Speaker 6: a minion or something like that, like a group to
Speaker 6: make up a community. I forget the exact number that
Speaker 6: they had as their idea, but the principle is true.
Speaker 6: But it still doesn't mean that there's not an appointed
Speaker 6: place for worship to occur. Does that make sense? Okay,
Speaker 6: So Sam's here, Sam, if you want to join, and
Speaker 6: you're welcome to Let's see if I can invite him
Speaker 6: to come on.
Speaker 2: Gotcha? Okay, thank you, Jay, I appreciate you.
Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean, in other words, you can't like take
Speaker 6: one verse kind of in exclusion to the rest of
Speaker 6: the verses. So the same principle could be true, like
Speaker 6: you know, with let's say we gather together, you know,
Speaker 6: somebody's house to do prayers. Is God in our midst Sure,
Speaker 6: but that doesn't mean that, oh well, then we don't
Speaker 6: need the you know, weekly liturgical worship of the church,
Speaker 6: like that would be a false either or because the
Speaker 6: rest of the passages after that, you know, as we
Speaker 6: get into the New Testament, Jesus explains that the church
Speaker 6: is established around the bishops. So you see what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 6: the principle is true and it is also it's like
Speaker 6: John four where Jesus says that worship will no longer
Speaker 6: just be in Jerusalem when the Messiah. Now the messiahs comed,
Speaker 6: he says to the woman in the well, worship will
Speaker 6: be done to the Father all over the world. Right,
Speaker 6: does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Gotcha?
Speaker 6: Okay? So in other words, the rest of the passage
Speaker 6: will also informed this. It's not a denial of the
Speaker 6: place for liturgical worship, like I mean, Jesus doesn't mention
Speaker 6: the Lord's Supper in that passage, right, So when we
Speaker 6: conclude from that, oh well, I guess the Lord's sawper
Speaker 6: is not necessary because this verse doesn't mention that. It
Speaker 6: just says get together and pray.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I feel like a lot of Protestants take an
Speaker 9: engine run a mile with it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: I'm a little starstruck being here with you and Sam
Speaker 3: as well, So anybody hear me.
Speaker 6: Yeah, what's up?
Speaker 5: Sam?
Speaker 2: Hey?
Speaker 3: Brother, what's up?
Speaker 10: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I was told you're calling out the Muslim so I
Speaker 3: wanted to come. Sure and you for that segment because
Speaker 3: I'm also live streaming. But what's going on? Muslim's buddy
Speaker 3: talk to me, Jake.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we got to open for him here. I don't
Speaker 6: know how many Muslims are in the space. It's always
Speaker 6: kind of a random thing as to who shows up.
Speaker 6: I've invited multiple Muslims to come today. I don't know
Speaker 6: if they will. Let's see if we got a Muslim here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I want to set the record.
Speaker 6: Sweep because I know, yeah, please do you and me.
Speaker 3: I know, I gotta be careful what I say because
Speaker 3: I got two strikes on YouTube and Daniel how key
Speaker 3: could you is responsible for the first one. So if
Speaker 3: I get a third one and the next ninety days,
Speaker 3: my account will be Dolle. So I got to be
Speaker 3: careful what I say because I'm on YouTube now because
Speaker 3: they just told me your life for the set the
Speaker 3: record straight. I have the receipts Donnie for standing for truth.
Speaker 3: I reached out to him, and I even have the
Speaker 3: receipts for modern day debate, a platform I will never
Speaker 3: work with because he turned out to be dishonest. But
Speaker 3: I challenge Daniel Hakikachu and I got the receipts, I
Speaker 3: got the emails and Donnie can confirm. I challenge Daniel
Speaker 3: Hakikachu to debate me on four topics. One topic was
Speaker 3: Muhammed's view of the Bible, and I'm gonna explain why
Speaker 3: I always start with that. Second topic would be the
Speaker 3: Krawn is it filled with contradictions and errors? Third topic,
Speaker 3: we would discuss whether the Trinity is fond and scripture.
Speaker 3: Fourth topic, whether Stamp teaches pure monetism. So this is
Speaker 3: my challenge. Now, I understand that Daniel is not the
Speaker 3: sharpest tool in the shed, and I hope the Muslims
Speaker 3: are hearing this because I would love to learn him
Speaker 3: to show up now and put me in my place,
Speaker 3: because he claims I'm running. He comes back and accepts
Speaker 3: three and then he wants to debate about the authenticity
Speaker 3: of scriptures. Now, Jay, you're a master of logic. I'm
Speaker 3: not I try to stay with scripture. I'm not that
Speaker 3: good in logic. If I challenge you to debate me
Speaker 3: Mohammed's view of the Bible and then you come back
Speaker 3: and propose a topic the authenticity of the Christian scriptures?
Speaker 3: Am I missing something here?
Speaker 2: Am I like?
Speaker 3: Is there a disconnect? Because if I'm debating you Mohammed's
Speaker 3: view the Bible to show you that Mohammad taught that
Speaker 3: the Bible is uncrumpt, but then you want to then
Speaker 3: debate me again on the authenticity of scriptures, that means
Speaker 3: either this man didn't get it or he wants to
Speaker 3: do jihad against Muhammad. Because once I established that Muhammad
Speaker 3: taught that the Bible's uncrrupt, he cannot attack the Bible
Speaker 3: if he's going to stay I'm listener. Now, am I
Speaker 3: missing something here? Help me with logic? J I'm not
Speaker 3: that sure.
Speaker 6: Well, I wouldn't call even say I'm an expert in logic,
Speaker 6: but I mean I know enough basic principles of you know,
Speaker 6: fallacies that there's certain things that they won't. We know
Speaker 6: that they're not going to debate you on anything textual.
Speaker 6: They'll only debate what they think is a safe space. So,
Speaker 6: for example, Jake, Jake's never going to debate anything textual,
Speaker 6: nothing to do with anything revelation in scripture or anything
Speaker 6: like that. He would they admittedly would not do well there.
Speaker 6: So Jake's only interested in quote metaphysics. But I don't
Speaker 6: even think Jake understands metaphysics very well based on what
Speaker 6: we debated. Now, another thing I want to touch on
Speaker 6: to Sam is that people were misunderstanding all the Muslims
Speaker 6: today on Twitter because Myron's tweet ended up getting like
Speaker 6: six hundred thousand views, and that they misunderstood that. They
Speaker 6: thought that you were only calling out sneak O and Uthman.
Speaker 6: You were offering one on one debates with all the
Speaker 6: people that you called out, and you agreed to a
Speaker 6: two versus two with me as well.
Speaker 3: Yes, let me set that straight, Jape. It's something he
Speaker 3: put a video mocking me about my analogies for the Trinity. Now,
Speaker 3: I promise Jake, and I hope he's listening. I promise
Speaker 3: Jake that I wouldn't attack him personally. Because Jake, it's public.
Speaker 3: He has MS, so I want to extend grace to
Speaker 3: him and pray for him that God will use that
Speaker 3: to bring him to the truth, and that because he's young,
Speaker 3: MS is not something to laugh at. So I promised him, Look,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to make it personal with you. We're
Speaker 3: going to keep it professional. Well, he did a video,
Speaker 3: brought up a clip mocking me about my Trinitian analogies,
Speaker 3: and you know how it is being Middle Eastern Assyrian
Speaker 3: hot blooded. May God constrain me so I don't send
Speaker 3: him my anger. I said, Okay, Jake, I'm going to
Speaker 3: I'll call you out. You and I got a debate,
Speaker 3: Mono Imano. You and I are going to debate. I'm
Speaker 3: going to contact Donnie for Standing for Truth. He's one
Speaker 3: of the most fair moderators on the planet standing for truth,
Speaker 3: and I'm going to be doing a live stream where
Speaker 3: I'm going to call you out first. Now, I guess
Speaker 3: that part they didn't put on Twitter, but it's on
Speaker 3: my YouTube and rumble. I'm challenging tobate me Mohammed's view
Speaker 3: of the Bible, and then whether the Bible teaches a
Speaker 3: trinity and whether Slam teaches pure monotheism, but we have
Speaker 3: to start with the foundational one Mohammed's view the Bible.
Speaker 3: I contact them, he goes Okay. Then in that video,
Speaker 3: I said that I doubt Jake will have the courage
Speaker 3: to debate me on that. He can then bring Daniel
Speaker 3: Hakikachu to join him on these three topics, and I'll
Speaker 3: do those two against me, and I go call my bluff,
Speaker 3: and I'm challenging Sneiko and Uthman and Muhammad to debate
Speaker 3: me on these three. That's something different from you and I.
Speaker 3: I agree to join you, and it can be anyone
Speaker 3: on the planet. Let him bring shiverer Ali, I will
Speaker 3: join you on fresh and fit I will follow your
Speaker 3: lead to debate any of them. So now that it's clear,
Speaker 3: stop the lies, Muslims, stop risk representing the facts. So Jay,
Speaker 3: you let me know if anyone accepts. I know you're
Speaker 3: already school Daniel Hakakachu and you already owned Jay. And
Speaker 3: I saw that Muhammada Joab wants to run. But if
Speaker 3: Muhammed a Job wants to bring Daniel, I don't mind him.
Speaker 3: And Daniel, you and I, but you set the perimeters right.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think they said yeah, go ahead, Yes.
Speaker 11: Sim I just don't see the issue. For I am Muslim,
Speaker 11: so I'm biased.
Speaker 5: But you are not accepting a two on two on
Speaker 5: modern day debates, which is pretty much the debate platform.
Speaker 3: That's actually a lie. Have you seen my emails when
Speaker 3: I publish them or you're gonna lie like a good takiast?
Speaker 3: Did you see the emails? Why did I make and.
Speaker 11: I didn't even make a statement.
Speaker 3: No, because you said modern day debate, I actually agree
Speaker 3: to modern day debate to debate Danie hock Chu and
Speaker 3: I propose the four topics.
Speaker 5: I'm not talking about what happened in the past. I'm
Speaker 5: talking about this two v two that is being presented now.
Speaker 6: Why would we do it on lot of the debate?
Speaker 6: Why would we do that on modern day debate when
Speaker 6: that's already going to be on myrons?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and let me let me correct you. Maybe you
Speaker 3: didn't listen to the first ten times after Modern Day
Speaker 3: Debate proved that he's not a man of integrity, I
Speaker 3: won't go on his channel now if they want to
Speaker 3: do it too on two Fresh and Fit? Right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: what's wrong with fresh and Fit? Okay? I mean that
Speaker 3: seems that seems you know that seems in your world
Speaker 3: kissing of Blackstone seems like monotheism. We don't care what
Speaker 3: it seems to you.
Speaker 12: Get them onto on fresh and fit, amazing manner, dude,
Speaker 12: I guess no much better matters than Muhammed whom mount
Speaker 12: a nine year old and had you do muta and
Speaker 12: had your captive women Blackstone young men.
Speaker 3: Anyway, Jay, you'll let me know when the Pagans are
Speaker 3: bold enough to step up to the plate and debate
Speaker 3: you and I. Yeah, and if you need me to
Speaker 3: come back if they join, just let me know on Skype.
Speaker 3: I'll join you because I just wanted to set the
Speaker 3: record straight because I'm on a livestream. But I will
Speaker 3: interrupted become if they come up.
Speaker 6: And if you want me to join it, yeah, Well,
Speaker 6: I mean there's we got Muslims coming in if they
Speaker 6: want to debate.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, if they want to, yeah, but are they
Speaker 3: gonna do it or they're gonna start whining and making excuses? So, Jay,
Speaker 3: I wanted to talk to you.
Speaker 6: If that's okay, Well why can't you don't want to
Speaker 6: talk to both of us? I'll bring another Muslim up.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I guess this would this topic would
Speaker 5: kind of not be for Sam Shampoo running from s Man.
Speaker 3: Now you almost from Landing. Yeah, man, I'm running from Blackstone. Hey, hey,
Speaker 3: click this up?
Speaker 13: Hey, why did you run away from SnO Park?
Speaker 14: It was three of you guys.
Speaker 3: It was the crook David would come on. I know
Speaker 3: my people, I know, come on, why did you run away?
Speaker 13: Your brother?
Speaker 3: Tell you? Let me lick the Blackstone become a poor
Speaker 3: collegies listening. I respect you, man, I'm sorry. I was
Speaker 3: trying to in front of you run away, but everybody
Speaker 3: else you your profit didn't run away. Why do you
Speaker 3: like to run away and call Muslims out? Like Muhammed
Speaker 3: who didn't do it from the front, but he went behind.
Speaker 3: I wore her dress? What about your wife?
Speaker 2: I heard about your wife? What about you?
Speaker 6: So if we're gonna do it, how is he running?
Speaker 6: How is he running? If we're gonna do it? This guy,
Speaker 6: this guy is ridiculous.
Speaker 3: He ran away from.
Speaker 2: J J.
Speaker 5: So I kind of wanted to ask you some questions
Speaker 5: that would you know, benefit the audience. And you know,
Speaker 5: I'm here with sincerity because like I've like I view
Speaker 5: you as somebody that's like relatively intellectual.
Speaker 6: Like what's get to the question. What's the question?
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I'm trying. I'm trying to understand.
Speaker 3: So if you have three persons.
Speaker 5: With one nature, which is divine, and you have three
Speaker 5: persons with one nature, which is you know, human, how
Speaker 5: is that not three gods? The same way it is
Speaker 5: it three humans?
Speaker 6: Because it's an analogy, and all analogies break down at
Speaker 6: certain points. The point precisely at which the analogy breaks
Speaker 6: down is that the three persons are not separate beings,
Speaker 6: like three humans are separate beings. So the analogy is
Speaker 6: just between the relationship of nature to person, not three
Speaker 6: separate beings. So in the same way you understand that
Speaker 6: as a Muslim, you believe the same thing about the attributes.
Speaker 5: Just one second, just before we get into that, I
Speaker 5: kind of want to understand your view more so, is
Speaker 5: the being.
Speaker 3: Numerically identical?
Speaker 5: Meaning object one and object two have every single thing
Speaker 5: about them the same?
Speaker 6: No, or, I'll say, wouldn't be distinct persons.
Speaker 3: So the the being is not numerically identical to God.
Speaker 6: You don't understand that something can be similar and different
Speaker 6: in different ways. They don't have to all. It's not
Speaker 6: an either or. That's what an analogy is. So you're
Speaker 6: confusing the analogy as if everything in the created aspect
Speaker 6: that's an analogy to what we're talking about, has to
Speaker 6: match up one to one, and it's not that way.
Speaker 3: I don't I don't see what created has to do
Speaker 3: with this.
Speaker 6: Though you said three human beings, those are creatures.
Speaker 11: No, no, no, no, I asked you about God and
Speaker 11: the same being.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but your original question was an analogy to three
Speaker 6: human beings and three divine persons. That's an analogy. Do
Speaker 6: you understand what let's let's rewind. Do you know what
Speaker 6: analogy is? First of all?
Speaker 11: Yeah, sure, what it's comparing things to show the.
Speaker 6: Same point or but there's also what is it a
Speaker 6: one to one.
Speaker 3: And an analogy should be one to one?
Speaker 6: No, that's not an analogy. Okay, so you don't even
Speaker 6: know basic grammar, so there.
Speaker 5: So there isn't a way to represent with like you know,
Speaker 5: a sound analogy what you're trying.
Speaker 6: To So there's unifical predication, equivocal predication, and there's an
Speaker 6: analogical predication. So what you said is that there's a
Speaker 6: one to one, right, that's not analogy. That's different.
Speaker 5: No, that's that's that's regarding numerical identity, right, I asked you,
Speaker 5: is God numerically identical to the being?
Speaker 2: The one being?
Speaker 6: The word being is just like the word God. It
Speaker 6: can pick out different things. It's a generic term. It's
Speaker 6: not a proper noun. Okay. And that's your mistake is
Speaker 6: that you think that it only picks out one thing.
Speaker 6: But even in your own theology, it picks out different
Speaker 6: things things because you think Allah has attributes and you
Speaker 6: think that, and let me, I can just ask you
Speaker 6: if you think the attributes are possessed a sayety.
Speaker 3: And I have a question for him about that. Hopefully
Speaker 3: you can define.
Speaker 5: So I'm still ask about my own theological schools. So
Speaker 5: I don't really have a response. What I'm responding to, Jake.
Speaker 3: Let me ask you a question to see your consistency.
Speaker 3: I know you want to run it's okay.
Speaker 11: So how is saying that I don't have asked the question.
Speaker 5: I don't have enough knowledge regarding my own geological spending.
Speaker 3: You don't have enough knowledge of Jay's theological tradition.
Speaker 11: But what you hear, that's why I'm asking him questions.
Speaker 3: No, you're not asking questions to learn because every time
Speaker 3: he tries to explain it. See, this is the problem, Jay.
Speaker 3: They just want to talk over people. So the coward
Speaker 3: doesn't want to defend his own politicism, pretending to know Sham,
Speaker 3: I was having a good conversation with Jay. You're literally like, Jay,
Speaker 3: are you having a good conversation I'm having You're having.
Speaker 6: Like, Well, the conversation is. Look, I mean you're you're
Speaker 6: confusing analogical predication with unifical predication. So unifical means in
Speaker 6: the same sense. So if I said that the threeeness
Speaker 6: of human beings is identical to the threness of divine persons,
Speaker 6: that would be unifical predication. That's a one to one.
Speaker 6: An Analogy is when there's aspects of it that are
Speaker 6: similar and aspects that are not similar. Hence analogy. Yes,
Speaker 6: do you understand that, But do you understand that you
Speaker 6: do the same thing in Islam when you talk about
Speaker 6: Allah having similarities to creatures, even though your Kuran says
Speaker 6: in forty two that there's no similarities between alline creatures.
Speaker 6: You do the same thing.
Speaker 3: Understand that, Yeah, but he's committing chirk. By the way,
Speaker 3: let me explain to you how he's committing shirk. God Sam,
Speaker 3: You're you're why he's committing shirk. Why Jay, if he's
Speaker 3: on your team, man, good luck on the deba. Yeah, okay, Jay,
Speaker 3: let me explain to you as they try to tell
Speaker 3: cover because that's what they do. They try to dominate
Speaker 3: and bully. That's what narcissts do. In the Koran. Just
Speaker 3: try and talk to j Well, you'd be not smart.
Speaker 3: Chapter forty two, verse eleven. Chapter one, twelve four says
Speaker 3: there's nothing comparable to a law. A form of shirk
Speaker 3: is when you try to liken Allah to creatures. And
Speaker 3: this is what you've been trying to hammer to him,
Speaker 3: that when he used the analogy of three human beings
Speaker 3: and somehow derived from that that the Trinity is identical.
Speaker 3: Because you kept saying that analogy means there's similarities and differences.
Speaker 3: He's now likening God to creation, which is a form
Speaker 3: of shirk in Islamic theology. But he wouldn't know that
Speaker 3: because memory pleaded ignorance.
Speaker 5: About amazing argument, Sam, amazing Okay, Now tell me about
Speaker 5: the Koran?
Speaker 3: Is it uncreated or created?
Speaker 15: Yo?
Speaker 2: Ja?
Speaker 6: I mean, is there anything we're not going to answer that?
Speaker 6: What about the Quran that I can talk to you,
Speaker 6: is it uncreator created?
Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm not here to debate Islam.
Speaker 6: Here you are, I'm talking about you. You're going attorney
Speaker 6: in the question, of course you are.
Speaker 3: I'm trying, dude, That's that's it. I'm I don't want
Speaker 3: to talk creative.
Speaker 6: Well, what's wrong with Okay? Well do you want me
Speaker 6: to ask you Sam's question about? How about? I just
Speaker 6: asked you Sam's question?
Speaker 16: Then?
Speaker 13: I mean, yeah, good, I'm really not interested in that, right?
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 6: I mean it's the same principle. Is all a one
Speaker 6: or many?
Speaker 3: So Jay asked for ask on my behalf, you'll be
Speaker 3: my agent. Shelley is the creator, uncreator See if he's
Speaker 3: gonna answer this.
Speaker 6: Is this is so silly. He's right here. You can
Speaker 6: hear what Sam saying. Come on, man, what what do
Speaker 6: you think?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: Do you have someone else?
Speaker 6: Because he's doctor. Let's see what doctor?
Speaker 3: Oh he's this guy's a peace I like this guy?
Speaker 2: Is he here? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Look, I just want you gotta send me your notes.
Speaker 3: I was still still getting this together, but I had
Speaker 3: a comment for r J.
Speaker 17: So, r J, you you just you can't go attacking
Speaker 17: their theology when you don't have your own together.
Speaker 3: I love you, man, You'll just hit a critical like if.
Speaker 17: You if you believe that God's attributes are uncreated, eternal.
Speaker 18: And they're not identical to God and they're not other
Speaker 18: than God.
Speaker 17: You can't go attacking a Trinitarian for believing something very
Speaker 17: similar about his divine persons.
Speaker 3: You can't do that, doctor Kelliam. Just so my audience
Speaker 3: know who you are, doctor Khalil, and Danny. He is
Speaker 3: an Ismaili, an Islamic philosopher. He actually debated Jake on
Speaker 3: the incoherence of Toheed. This man is brilliant and I'm
Speaker 3: not saying it to say it. He is. I'm waiting
Speaker 3: for your notes and it would be an honor if
Speaker 3: you feel that I'm good enough to have you to
Speaker 3: bring you on, because I know David had brought you
Speaker 3: on because as in Ismaili, you actually believe that Christ
Speaker 3: was crucified, did die, but as soul is alive? Am
Speaker 3: I correct?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 17: Yes, okay, we're not the only ones who believe that
Speaker 17: there are there Muslims historically minority will have you too.
Speaker 3: You have my contact face because I reached out to
Speaker 3: you for your notes. If you ever want to come
Speaker 3: on and talk about your Ismayliism, your view of God
Speaker 3: that it's nothing like the Athities and you have problems
Speaker 3: with it. And if you want to talk about that,
Speaker 3: the crowd does not categorically deny that Christ was killed
Speaker 3: by a crucifixion, it'd be an honor for me to bring.
Speaker 2: You on an interview.
Speaker 6: Well, everyone should also watch Jake's debate with doctor Khalil too.
Speaker 6: I'll watch that many times.
Speaker 19: So that was a great debate, ye, speaking of debate
Speaker 19: in the spirit off a friendly discourse and not not
Speaker 19: at homing.
Speaker 17: And I responded to your guised debate challenge, and I've
Speaker 17: offered a three on three debate between three of you
Speaker 17: and three of my people, again in a friendly academic spirit.
Speaker 18: It's in a tweet.
Speaker 17: And I've also proposed, because you guys don't know much
Speaker 17: about our position and we don't know so much about yours,
Speaker 17: so I've also proposed.
Speaker 18: That bally, do we debate again in a proper way.
Speaker 17: But I also have proposed a before the debate, long
Speaker 17: before the debate, a public discovery session.
Speaker 18: Where we would meet online and then we just.
Speaker 17: Have like an open Q and A with each other
Speaker 17: out Okay, what is your position on this? What is
Speaker 17: your position on that?
Speaker 18: I don't expect you to answer this right now, but
Speaker 18: is doctor, that's no problem.
Speaker 3: It's fine.
Speaker 6: I'm open to anything. Like I'm always open to that
Speaker 6: kind of stuff. I'm open.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I all for just one thing. Member of my
Speaker 3: specialty fortee. Just so there in my background is scriptural exegesus.
Speaker 3: The philosophical whiz would be Jay. So if I do discussions,
Speaker 3: I prefer to make a textual based so I would
Speaker 3: well be more than happy. Do you bring into others.
Speaker 3: Jay's got me with him, he can bring someone else.
Speaker 2: Let's do this.
Speaker 17: So but yes, I understand that I don't know lich
Speaker 17: debate because you guys have been proposing like three four topics.
Speaker 17: I can't keep tracks. So I just responded to trinity
Speaker 17: like your trinity model versus a Neil or Neil platonic
Speaker 17: heat model. We can again think about it. We're happy
Speaker 17: to discuss the specifics of what it would can what
Speaker 17: it would cover, whether we just philosophy metaphysics, or whether
Speaker 17: it be scripture and metaphysics, and we can we can
Speaker 17: talk about that.
Speaker 18: But it's just it's an open.
Speaker 20: Call and it would be a debate in the technical sense,
Speaker 20: but it won't be a debate in this popular sense
Speaker 20: where everyone just you know, we're just trying to like
Speaker 20: score points like WWE or something like.
Speaker 18: We're not interested in that. What we're interested in.
Speaker 17: It is sort of like a proper exchange of each
Speaker 17: Each group's position is very clear, the arguments for and against.
Speaker 17: And if you want an idea of what I'm talking about,
Speaker 17: I've debated, and I put this in quotes. You know,
Speaker 17: I've debated David Would a couple of times, right, yes,
Speaker 17: And I've debated Joshua Side right also, And this is
Speaker 17: what I have in mind. So, yeah, we have different views,
Speaker 17: and I'm not going to pretend I have the same
Speaker 17: view as you and vice versa. But you know, it
Speaker 17: would be a proper sort of academic more of an
Speaker 17: academic debate, like you know, when we see I'm sure
Speaker 17: you've seen Christian philosophers debate each other on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 17: Pretty, they're pretty nice to each other. They're civil, nobody
Speaker 17: insults the other person's mother or whatever it is.
Speaker 3: By way, just for the record, I was challenging the dies. Oh,
Speaker 3: I understand that, I understand.
Speaker 18: I totally see it. I know what you guys are doing.
Speaker 18: And I'm not a part of that industry.
Speaker 17: Exactly my agenda and from my colleaguesist we occasionally will
Speaker 17: involve ourselves on this because we want to raise the discourse.
Speaker 17: And frankly, we're tired of a marginal Celerfie theology, you know,
Speaker 17: because celo fees are marginal, like their theology is marginal.
Speaker 17: This is not even the majority of studies. But we're
Speaker 17: sort of tired of this sort of like dominating the airwaves.
Speaker 18: It sort of becomes old.
Speaker 17: I mean, Jay already j beat Jake's celopism. I beat
Speaker 17: Jake's celifism. It's just getting old now.
Speaker 3: They just keep yeah and both person beat it too.
Speaker 18: So how many losses are these guys going to take?
Speaker 17: I think it's time for this, the more intellectually grounded
Speaker 17: and philosophically.
Speaker 18: Sophisticated positions to dialogue. And this is even what some
Speaker 18: academics have said.
Speaker 17: They've said that, look, if the dialogue partner of Christianity
Speaker 17: was this spiritual philosophical Islam, you know, everything would be
Speaker 17: quite different.
Speaker 18: And I think that's true.
Speaker 3: I agree with you, doctor, and I want people to
Speaker 3: know you are not among these diies. You are respectful.
Speaker 3: I'm not just saying to say that I've seen your work.
Speaker 3: You are professional.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 17: The irony of what you're saying is that the term
Speaker 17: dae as a title was invented by the Ismileys.
Speaker 3: Wow historical your language.
Speaker 17: Yeah, Dawa and die as formal titles of people at activity.
Speaker 18: This is an ismili invention.
Speaker 17: Nobody Smiley's called themselves dies and did die off our
Speaker 17: dialogs different, but yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sorry that they hijacked that term. But I
Speaker 3: want people to know this man is a professional Islamic philosopher.
Speaker 3: Watch his discussions. Very perfect. Fact my first introduction to you.
Speaker 21: You may not know this.
Speaker 3: Years ago you had a symposium on Christology. You were
Speaker 3: representing a Smailism shiver Aali the sunny position, and he
Speaker 3: had Tony Costa, and you had a Catholic representing the
Speaker 3: Protestant Catholic view of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 6: Do you remember that?
Speaker 22: I remember it very well.
Speaker 18: The video is still on my discussion.
Speaker 3: It was excellent. That's kind of professional dialogue in debate,
Speaker 3: superb because you gave your position, Shaver gave his position,
Speaker 3: Tony Costa gave his position, and I forget the Catholic
Speaker 3: man's name, but it was four perspectives on Jesus superb correct.
Speaker 3: So my hat's off too. You are professional and you
Speaker 3: are a gentleman.
Speaker 18: Thank you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that.
Speaker 3: The offers there.
Speaker 18: Again, we take your time. We're happy to discuss specifics
Speaker 18: at a later time. We're in no rush, so if
Speaker 18: this doesn't happen for months, it's not a problem. But
Speaker 18: we're just putting it out there.
Speaker 3: You got so, Jay, it's in your court. If you
Speaker 3: ever want me to join in this discussion, I'll do
Speaker 3: the technical stuff. I'm here to do that because you're
Speaker 3: the philosopher. I'm the textual guy that's saying that. I'm great,
Speaker 3: but you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: Sure, yeah, I appreciate that, Doctor Klow, appreciate that. Sam.
Speaker 6: You guys are welcome to I'm happy to say something
Speaker 6: up down the road for sure.
Speaker 3: Now, brother Jay, if you don't have any Muslims want
Speaker 3: to debate us.
Speaker 6: Oh, there's all. There's a whole crew of Muslims.
Speaker 3: But are they gonna talk or they're gonna insult in custom?
Speaker 6: Let's say who's next. Let's say who's next? Right, go ahead, Hassan,
Speaker 6: there here we go, gonna. I'm mute. Man, All we go, Hassan,
Speaker 6: I'm mute.
Speaker 3: If you want to talk as getting ready for the
Speaker 3: attack and so it's guys.
Speaker 6: Get ready, Hassan Shibley, un mute if you want to talk.
Speaker 3: Man, By the way, for those on my channels, I
Speaker 3: don't want you to confuse it with Sonny Islam. In fact,
Speaker 3: doctor Kott is more qualified to speak of his branch
Speaker 3: of Islam. It comes out of the Shiat tradition solism, right,
Speaker 3: and so sadly they've been persecuted by Sonny muscle. So
Speaker 3: this is a group that's been targeted and persecuted by
Speaker 3: Sunny Muslims. So he's not like these Sunney I don't
Speaker 3: know what to turn. I don't want to use you
Speaker 3: anymore because it's from them.
Speaker 12: They were persecuted and harassed by the larger Sudney community.
Speaker 3: So I thank God for him because he puts them
Speaker 3: in their place philosophically, textually.
Speaker 6: But go ahead, hows on, I'm mute. Do you want
Speaker 6: to talk? All right, we'll move on. If you're not
Speaker 6: going to.
Speaker 3: Talk, everyone, okay, we're on YouTube, man.
Speaker 6: Go Stott, what's up? I'm mute. Stott. You want to talk,
Speaker 6: I'm mute.
Speaker 2: Man, oh salamlekum.
Speaker 3: Can you hear me?
Speaker 2: Mm hm, ok.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we can hear you.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 23: To preface, I'm not a Muslim, I have perennials gleanings,
Speaker 23: but I would like to ask your opinion on goofy tradition,
Speaker 23: particularly the doctrine of debt we should or unity of
Speaker 23: being a sort of atheist metaphysic put for it by I.
Speaker 6: Just did a talk. I did a talk on that
Speaker 6: the other day. Go ahead, no, no, I just.
Speaker 3: Wanted to say, so people know what he's talking about,
Speaker 3: Islamic panantheism. I but go ahead, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 23: The core idea is that everything that exists is a reflection.
Speaker 3: Of God's essence.
Speaker 6: Right, that's a neo Patonic idea.
Speaker 23: Well, it's derived from Neoplatonism. They had a great deal
Speaker 23: of influence on the Arabic world at that time.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: That's why you should talk to doctor Khadid and Danny
Speaker 3: because that's what's his position is.
Speaker 6: Right, Okay, yeah, I would critique it by the traditional
Speaker 6: critiques of neoplatonism, and many of the Church fathers actually
Speaker 6: combated neoplatonism in various forms. So there's quite a few
Speaker 6: of those basal critiques that affinaceous critiques it. In fact,
Speaker 6: the Cappadocians argue that Neoplatonism is really the root of
Speaker 6: most of the chrystological and trinitarian errors. There's a great
Speaker 6: essay written by an Orthodox theologian, how Eunomius's position relies
Speaker 6: on Neoplatonism. Let mess if I can find it.
Speaker 23: Well, I'm shocked to hear that, because my existing notions
Speaker 23: of Eastern Orthodoxy were like through you know, Pseudodonysis and
Speaker 23: the like, who are greatly influenced by apathetic theology, which
Speaker 23: is in turn derived from Platinis and such.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, the fact that there's overlap at times
Speaker 6: does not mean that ultimately that theology is derived from
Speaker 6: that are based on that. In fact, Basil argues probably
Speaker 6: more than any of them, against neoplatonism. I see, Okay,
Speaker 6: and the paper I would recommend to you, Let me
Speaker 6: see if I can find it. Let's see. I think
Speaker 6: it's called something like Unomius's reliance on Platinus. Let me
Speaker 6: see if I can find it. It's a really good
Speaker 6: paper to make this point. It's got It's written by
Speaker 6: a guy with the gigantic Greek, crazy Greek name. Let
Speaker 6: me see, it's at Academia dot edu. So let me
Speaker 6: go over there and search.
Speaker 2: H h h, dang it.
Speaker 6: What is the name of that paper? Let me think
Speaker 6: for a.
Speaker 23: Second here, Well, while you're occupied, I don't mean to
Speaker 23: bombard you with questions, but what do you make of
Speaker 23: the traditional school?
Speaker 2: I'm sure you're familiar with, say.
Speaker 23: Seraph and rose and such, but what do you think
Speaker 23: of that specific branch of perennial philosophy and a shoe
Speaker 23: on coomber swelling and the like.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I have a shelf of their works back here
Speaker 6: behind me. I had an interest in that in my twenties.
Speaker 6: I read a few of their books. But no, I
Speaker 6: think Orthodox Christianity is incompatible with with traditionalism printialism, although
Speaker 6: I did just do a lecture on it the other day,
Speaker 6: by the way, see.
Speaker 8: You know, yes, m.
Speaker 6: Let me look some more and I'll try to find
Speaker 6: that paper and link it underneath this. Did you want
Speaker 6: to say something else, doctor KLi, dang it, that's not it?
Speaker 2: So that was it?
Speaker 6: So that it's in our discord server. I know we
Speaker 6: have the paper. I just can't find the public link
Speaker 6: to it and I've read it three times. I can't
Speaker 6: remember that Greek day's name though. All right, tell you what,
Speaker 6: let me look really quick in the discord server in
Speaker 6: the PDF bank and I can find it. Okay, here
Speaker 6: we go, here we go. Here it is. The paper
Speaker 6: is called Plotinus and Unomius, a parallel theology of three hypostases.
Speaker 6: That's it.
Speaker 18: I just cited that paper two weeks ago out of coal.
Speaker 17: Yeah, because I was trying to tell them that, okay
Speaker 17: and Platinus that you know me and theology is very
Speaker 17: similar to us.
Speaker 18: And somebody was like, no, it's not, and I was like, yes,
Speaker 18: it is, and then I cited the paper.
Speaker 6: Yeah, here's the paper. I finally found it. If you're
Speaker 6: looking for it right there, it is, and it's in
Speaker 6: the chat there, and then I'll try to put it
Speaker 6: underneath this chat later on. Did you want to say
Speaker 6: something else, doctor Koli.
Speaker 18: Yeah, just on this dropic of apple Fasis.
Speaker 17: But is it not the case that in Orthodoxy, like
Speaker 17: your position on the divine essence, like is apple Fasis correct?
Speaker 6: That's why we have the energies doctrine, because in the essence,
Speaker 6: we don't know the energies come down to us, as
Speaker 6: Basil says.
Speaker 18: But when when you say God is God essence plus
Speaker 18: energies or God is just essence.
Speaker 6: Energies are actions of God. So they're not composed, they're
Speaker 6: not composite parts. They're actions that God does or their attributes.
Speaker 18: Sorry, the energies are actions or attributes both.
Speaker 17: Okay, but then you know the son is the like
Speaker 17: dacheries and like they'll say openly because Ali says that, oh,
Speaker 17: the term allow referras to the essence and the attributes together.
Speaker 18: So for you like the term God, does it only
Speaker 18: refer to the essence?
Speaker 6: No, it picks out any of those things. God picks
Speaker 6: out the word. God can pick out person, it can
Speaker 6: pick out essence, or it can pick out energy, attribute operation.
Speaker 18: Does a pickout Does it ever pick out like like
Speaker 18: several of these things. It picks them all out but
Speaker 18: all at the same time? Or is it sort of
Speaker 18: just Sometimes essence sometimes.
Speaker 6: Mean well, I mean depending upon the context or the
Speaker 6: debate that's being had. For example, when pallet Must debates
Speaker 6: with the Roman Catholics, it's typically you know, he's talking
Speaker 6: about it as an the word God as an energy
Speaker 6: or the work because God, if it refers to existence.
Speaker 6: The cappa Docians often say as an energy. Uh if
Speaker 6: it's picking out the divine essence even though we don't
Speaker 6: know it. And then it's picking out the essence, So
Speaker 6: it's it just depends on the context. There's no like
Speaker 6: one one to one only referring to this idea of
Speaker 6: what the word god is. In fact, that's why we're
Speaker 6: always pointing out that in scripture it's even a rough
Speaker 6: it's it's even used of humans and angels. They're called
Speaker 6: gods at times.
Speaker 17: In your theology, is the do the deride? Essence is concrete, right,
Speaker 17: but it's not just abstract.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 6: Yes, it only exists in the mode of the person's
Speaker 6: that have that essence. So it doesn't exist in any
Speaker 6: kind of higher abstract platonic idea or form or realm.
Speaker 6: So the essence only exists in the mode of the
Speaker 6: person of the Father and the son and the spirit.
Speaker 6: It doesn't exist like above them. They don't participate in it.
Speaker 6: It exists in them. As the word that we use
Speaker 6: is in hypostatic, in the mode of and we would
Speaker 6: say the same thing for example of human nature as
Speaker 6: an analogy human nature, it doesn't exist in the abstract
Speaker 6: like in a platonic form, it exists in the mode
Speaker 6: of each individual person or hypostasis that possesses that human nature.
Speaker 6: But we think there is a distinction between nature and person.
Speaker 3: Is a real distinction, Yeah, we.
Speaker 6: Don't think distinctions entail composition or division.
Speaker 18: Nobody's a real distinction or is it just like a
Speaker 18: mental distinc No.
Speaker 6: It's a real distinction because for example, we don't believe
Speaker 6: you can participate in God's essence, but we believe that
Speaker 6: grace is a participation in God's energies.
Speaker 17: And the energies there is attribute and energy just like
Speaker 17: two turns for the same Or are some of these
Speaker 17: energies that attributes.
Speaker 6: And some of them act well, It depends on Again,
Speaker 6: it depends on what the context is. For example, the
Speaker 6: action of God creating the world is a unique action
Speaker 6: at one point, and so God is not continually creating
Speaker 6: another world, at least as far as we know of
Speaker 6: other things. Like for example, in John seventeen, Jesus says
Speaker 6: that he came to give us a share in God's glory.
Speaker 6: So we would say God's glory is an uncreated energy
Speaker 6: that we really participate in. But it's distinct from the
Speaker 6: action of creating the world.
Speaker 18: Okay, so some of these energies are like temporal, No.
Speaker 6: The energy is the energies themselves are not temporal, but
Speaker 6: they have a once once, a one point in time reference,
Speaker 6: you could say. So, for example, in Genesis, has God
Speaker 6: wrested from his works? And so when Palamas has debate
Speaker 6: with the Latins, the debate ends up hinging on at
Speaker 6: one point, what does it mean for God to rest
Speaker 6: from creating? Well, Palamus argues that it means that God
Speaker 6: didn't have to keep creating. It wasn't an emanation. It
Speaker 6: was a decision that he did by will at one
Speaker 6: point at one time. And God can do many things.
Speaker 6: He doesn't have to just do one thing at all times.
Speaker 18: Okay, cool, thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean, if we have an open colloquium or whatever,
Speaker 6: I'm happy to you know, answer or explain any of
Speaker 6: those kinds of questions. Did you want to come back
Speaker 6: and speak. I forget what your name was, rd RJD.
Speaker 6: You know what up?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 11: Yeah, I just a quick response to Khalil.
Speaker 5: Can you explain how asking somebody what their position is
Speaker 5: is attacking their beliefs?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 6: I think he's saying that you came on to debate,
Speaker 6: and so it's a debate form debate.
Speaker 3: I literally just want to know what you believe.
Speaker 6: Well, but it's listed as a debate, so typically people
Speaker 6: that pop in, we assume it's a debate.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 5: I thought that was referring to, like just saying that
Speaker 5: you're going to have a debate to sneako takee.
Speaker 6: Oh no, no, no, say I opened this up for
Speaker 6: everybody to call it debate typically.
Speaker 5: Okay, So yeah, Khalil, I'm not here to attack anyone's
Speaker 5: belief I'm here to understand their beliefs, which is exactly
Speaker 5: why I did not want to defend my view of
Speaker 5: Islam because I don't even know if I'm an eschery
Speaker 5: or an ethery.
Speaker 11: So how could I defend something that I don't even
Speaker 11: have a position on it?
Speaker 6: Okay, anything else you want to say?
Speaker 2: No, I just yeah, that was it.
Speaker 6: Appreciate it, dude, Tack Blue, what's up?
Speaker 2: Man? Hi?
Speaker 3: How are you doing?
Speaker 6: What's up?
Speaker 21: Man?
Speaker 6: Yeah? Sam can come back if he wants. Two people
Speaker 6: in the chat are saying that he left. I mean
Speaker 6: I thought he was just busy doing another stream. He
Speaker 6: can come back every once, So I don't care.
Speaker 2: I am in a park, so there's gonna be some noise.
Speaker 3: If that don't minds you, You sound good to me,
Speaker 3: to go ahead.
Speaker 2: Okay. So my first Christian is.
Speaker 3: I don't understand how Jesus fulfills the law.
Speaker 2: What does it mean?
Speaker 6: Well, I mean I would say there's a couple of
Speaker 6: senses to what it means. In one sense, it's a
Speaker 6: reference to his own divinity, and so by being the
Speaker 6: son of God, he can't do evil, He does no wrong.
Speaker 6: He's a perfect being. And so by being the divine
Speaker 6: son of God, every action that he does is virtuous.
Speaker 6: Every action that he does is righteous and according to
Speaker 6: the law. Because we believe that Jesus gave the law.
Speaker 6: We believe that the burning bush in Exodus three, if
Speaker 6: you compare that to Exodus twenty three, that's actually Jesus.
Speaker 6: We think that he is the second person that God
Speaker 6: had present in the burning bush. He even makes this
Speaker 6: argument to the Phariseason John five through nine. So that's
Speaker 6: our position on how he's just as a virtue of
Speaker 6: being divine person a kind of living embodiment of the Torah.
Speaker 6: He is the living embodiment of the divine word. He
Speaker 6: is the divine word, and so when he's incarnate or
Speaker 6: when he's often in the Old Testament, he just by
Speaker 6: virtue of his divinity quote, fulfills the law. However, in
Speaker 6: the sense of like the ceremonies that God gave. So
Speaker 6: if you think about in the Torah, when Moses is
Speaker 6: given the ceremonies of how to do the levitical law
Speaker 6: with the temple, the altar, and the priesthood, the sacrifice,
Speaker 6: the bronze, see where they would do the washings, all
Speaker 6: that animal sacrifice stuff, or like the Passover and Exodus,
Speaker 6: those are all fulfilled in the death, burial, and resurrection
Speaker 6: of Christ. So in the sense of fulfilling the levitical
Speaker 6: law in the ceremonies, we think Christ fulfills those by
Speaker 6: his death, uryal resurrection. He's the Pascal Lamb, He's the
Speaker 6: fulfillment of Pentecost, all of those rituals and feast days
Speaker 6: that the Jews had, we believe that that's all pointing
Speaker 6: to what Christ would do. And so a lot of
Speaker 6: the New Testament is devoted, for example, to explaining Christ's
Speaker 6: fulfillment of those levitical laws and ceremonies, particularly like the
Speaker 6: whole book of Hebrews is dedicated just to this. Even
Speaker 6: the Sabbath is fulfilled, we think in the rest that
Speaker 6: Christ did when he died. So when he died on
Speaker 6: Good Friday, that's a fulfillment of the Sabbath rest. And
Speaker 6: then he rises to an eighth day resurrection, that's a
Speaker 6: fulfillment of the eternal Sabbath. So in other words, every
Speaker 6: one of those levitical ceremonial things, we think Christ for
Speaker 6: the most part fulfilled in his lifetime and in his
Speaker 6: death rown resurrection, and then in the establishment of the Church.
Speaker 6: So that's why we think Old Testament Israel is a
Speaker 6: type of the New Testament Church that exists throughout the world.
Speaker 2: But I still don't understand it.
Speaker 24: So are you saying that because he was perfect and
Speaker 24: he gave the law that in a sense he can choose, uh,
Speaker 24: and it in some way.
Speaker 6: Well, it's not ended, in the sense that the moral meaning,
Speaker 6: even behind the ceremonial laws, continues on. For example, if
Speaker 6: you read Paul's epistoles, he'll say stuff like, uh, you know,
Speaker 6: when it says not to sew to garments onto the
Speaker 6: sense two patches onto a garment or not to sow
Speaker 6: two seeds in a field. He says, that's a spiritual
Speaker 6: principle that still continues on. So the Old Testament, for example,
Speaker 6: unclean animals, those were for us symbolic of vices and
Speaker 6: the demonics. So we avoid the unclean animals in the
Speaker 6: spiritual sense of avoiding the vices. So for us, even
Speaker 6: the ceremonial laws continue on in their spiritual meaning. They're
Speaker 6: just not continued on in their literal sense of everybody
Speaker 6: in the world having to submit to levitical ceremonies. Because
Speaker 6: if you know Judaism, you know that Jews don't believe
Speaker 6: that the law was made for everybody. It's not made
Speaker 6: for the whole world. It's only made for Jews. And yeah,
Speaker 6: so in our view agrees with that, and we say
Speaker 6: that if Judaism was going to spread to the whole world,
Speaker 6: and that's what we think Orthodoxtricianity is, it's the true
Speaker 6: Judaism for the whole world, not rabbinical Judaism distinct, then
Speaker 6: it has to adopt certain things that allow it to
Speaker 6: spread to the whole world. And we think that Christ
Speaker 6: absolutely decided upon that because he has that authority as
Speaker 6: the divine Son of God. And this is partly the
Speaker 6: logic of the reasoning of the Jerusalem Council in Acts
Speaker 6: fifteen is that they realize that if this is going
Speaker 6: to be Judaism for the whole world, then we might
Speaker 6: want to look to a covenant where people were made
Speaker 6: righteous before Abraham or before Moses. How has anyone made
Speaker 6: righteous before Abraham or Moses. Well, let's look to Noah.
Speaker 6: And that's why Acts fifteen specifically goes to the gentile
Speaker 6: Noah to say, if Noah could be righteous before God,
Speaker 6: then we ought not expect anything more for the gentiles
Speaker 6: converting than what was expected of Noah. And that's the
Speaker 6: whole of Acts fifteen.
Speaker 24: Because just think that it's just all about the law,
Speaker 24: and they don't, right, I think before it And my
Speaker 24: other question is one argument I've seen that shaped which
Speaker 24: man said, is that if Jesus has two like he
Speaker 24: has a human part and divine essence when he died,
Speaker 24: where did the human Did the human and the divine separate?
Speaker 6: Right? So yeah, this is covered in John Damascus Book three.
Speaker 6: If you go all the way down to the last
Speaker 6: part of on the Orthodox Faith, the book three of
Speaker 6: John Damascus, he gives a whole exposition of our position
Speaker 6: on this in a very brief three or four paragraphs.
Speaker 6: I highly recommend it for those who want to just
Speaker 6: read a few paragraphs. But in short, we believe that no,
Speaker 6: the divine person of the Sun was never separated from
Speaker 6: the human nature because he's a divine person, so he's
Speaker 6: he possesses his omniscience as a divine person. He descended
Speaker 6: in the soul with the human soul that he assumed
Speaker 6: into Hades. We believe Hades is a realm of the dead.
Speaker 6: So when Christ descended into Hades as the divine person
Speaker 6: to that human soul that he assumed, the human soul
Speaker 6: is separated from the human body. But Christ is the
Speaker 6: divine person, divine subject, so there's not a human person.
Speaker 6: It's a divine person with the human soul. And he
Speaker 6: went into the realm of the dead to Hades to
Speaker 6: preach the Gospel to the dead and then to raise
Speaker 6: those people in the resurrection. And that's what we think
Speaker 6: is that's why Peter says that he preached to the
Speaker 6: spirits in Hades.
Speaker 24: And finally, if you don't mind, yeah, it's a cushion
Speaker 24: of both is I think on the website drew for
Speaker 24: Judaism that they explained to ascendence, you are made a
Speaker 24: priest forever by the other of Melchisedek. Right, that's Melchisidic.
Speaker 24: It's just a title of a king. So when you
Speaker 24: say you, like the son of David, are going to
Speaker 24: be a priest priest forever and the order of Melchisidic
Speaker 24: is like you're going to be an administrator by the
Speaker 24: like of a rifle king.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean, Jews have all kinds of explanations to try
Speaker 6: to get around passages that would make the Messiah prophet,
Speaker 6: priest and king, and particularly with a person of Christ.
Speaker 6: So I don't doubt they have all kinds of ways
Speaker 6: to try to say that the Messiah when he comes,
Speaker 6: will be like David and a descendative David, and that
Speaker 6: he won't actually have a priesthood. Well, we think he
Speaker 6: actually has a priesthood because the argument of Paul in
Speaker 6: Hebrew seven about this passage is that Christ's priesthood is
Speaker 6: superior to the ironic because Abraham in whose loins was
Speaker 6: his descendant Levi and Aaron, right that he that he
Speaker 6: gave allbeisments to Malchisedek. So Malchisedek is superior. So of
Speaker 6: course a Jew would want to downplay this passage because
Speaker 6: this means that the Ironic priesthood is inferior to the Melchizedekian.
Speaker 6: But the whole argument of Hebrew seven is that christ
Speaker 6: priesthood is superior to the ironic.
Speaker 24: But in a way, what the Jew will say is
Speaker 24: that those statements are made after like the Jews at
Speaker 24: the time, they didn't have this whole thing about Melchizedeic
Speaker 24: and everything.
Speaker 2: They're going to point to passages.
Speaker 24: Like when the Peter didn't understand why Jesus had to die.
Speaker 24: They're going to say that the Messiah at this time
Speaker 24: wasn't understood to be a sacrifice.
Speaker 6: No, but that's not true. That's why the Jews have
Speaker 6: to That's why the Talmudic position is that there's two Messiahs,
Speaker 6: Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. One of them dies.
Speaker 11: Uh.
Speaker 2: Is that the majority statement.
Speaker 6: It's the Talmudic rabbinical teaching, all right, I mean, I
Speaker 6: mean reform Jews won't believe that, but if they're Orthodox
Speaker 6: or Rabbinic Jews they will, all right. So, yeah, those
Speaker 6: are great questions, great questions. Appreciate that. Shout out to
Speaker 6: John pro what's up man, and then we'll go to
Speaker 6: Hamsa next. How you doing, dude, looks like I was
Speaker 6: having a hard time connecting. If you want to pop out,
Speaker 6: pop back in, I'll go back to you John. Let's
Speaker 6: see hams up. What's up?
Speaker 3: Hi?
Speaker 21: Bro?
Speaker 2: Is my voice clear?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Uh So.
Speaker 15: I was watching the sub Chamon's life yesterday and he
Speaker 15: was given analogies about the trilogy, and one of the
Speaker 15: analogies he gave is the car analogy.
Speaker 2: And this analogy is saying that that, for example, the
Speaker 2: trilogy is like a car.
Speaker 15: A car has parts, and this part the engine, the wheel,
Speaker 15: I don't know, and these parts are like the Son.
Speaker 2: Jesus and Jesus, the Holy spirits, and the Father. But
Speaker 2: for me, this is a heresy.
Speaker 15: This is a partialism because when you see the car
Speaker 15: has engine and has will and has so on.
Speaker 6: I understand part. I understand created things are composite. God
Speaker 6: is not composite. We all believe that. So he's just
Speaker 6: making an analogy between something could be one and many
Speaker 6: at the same time, just like you believe about the attributes.
Speaker 15: Yeah, but the engine is not the car, but Jesus
Speaker 15: is God. So the persons mean the essence in the
Speaker 15: trinity is the nature being God. But the essence in
Speaker 15: the car analogy must be also the car.
Speaker 2: But the engine is not the car, the wheel is.
Speaker 8: Not the car.
Speaker 6: Well, he's just making it right. So the analogy breaks
Speaker 6: down at the point you're talking about. But it's only
Speaker 6: an analogy to one and many, not to parts.
Speaker 15: I mean, gee, for me, this car analogy is for
Speaker 15: the for the trinity is flawed.
Speaker 6: I mean, let me give an example. If it's the
Speaker 6: same principle. Okay, the number three, right, the Arabic number three?
Speaker 2: Yeah, turn out, so it's a tree.
Speaker 6: Okay, is that one or is it three?
Speaker 2: The essence is being a number.
Speaker 6: But if you not, my essence is just just just three,
Speaker 6: is it? Is it one thing or three things?
Speaker 15: Is the one thing?
Speaker 6: Of course, but it's also three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the essence is being a number. But if
Speaker 2: you do, but you cannot, you can.
Speaker 6: See you're you're getting confused. Your confusing the mataphestic lesson.
Speaker 6: You're confusing the it's a limited analogy that's only referring
Speaker 6: to numerics. It's not talking about essences.
Speaker 15: Let's stick with this example. So you said it's three
Speaker 15: one thing. Okay, So if you if we give this
Speaker 15: example as the trilogy.
Speaker 2: So the three is like.
Speaker 6: Three, not a tree. Three.
Speaker 2: Yes, three, I mean three, the number three, not the
Speaker 2: three of course.
Speaker 15: So the number three, if we compare it to the trilogy,
Speaker 15: is the god head.
Speaker 2: The tree is the god Head.
Speaker 15: And if we separate the three, we have one one one.
Speaker 15: One is not the tree, but in the trinity, Jesus
Speaker 15: is God.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: So this is also flowed analogy. I don't understand it.
Speaker 6: Explain to me how it's flowed analogy. I'm listening to you.
Speaker 2: Okay, what explain it. I'll give you just one minute.
Speaker 15: So in your example, we have three, it's three one thing.
Speaker 2: Of course, it's the one thing. But what is there
Speaker 2: is the number tree.
Speaker 6: So this is where you're making a mistake. You're going
Speaker 6: into essences. The only thing that we're saying is is
Speaker 6: an analogy is the numerics nothing to do with essences. Okay.
Speaker 6: It's just pointing out that something can be three and
Speaker 6: one at the same time and it doesn't involve a contradiction.
Speaker 6: That's all we're saying. That's okay.
Speaker 2: A quick question a quick question. G what are the
Speaker 2: parts of three? Who has one? One? One? Yeah?
Speaker 6: No, no, no, you're missing the point the number. Look,
Speaker 6: I can make the same analogy to attributes. Okay, is
Speaker 6: all of ninety nine parts?
Speaker 2: These are names?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 15: Well, the attribution of being all powerful is not We
Speaker 15: don't say all powerful.
Speaker 2: This attribution of being all powerful is good.
Speaker 15: No.
Speaker 6: Wait, so all of his attributes, all all of us
Speaker 6: attributes are Do they possess a saiety?
Speaker 15: No, that's that's his nature is one means of being good.
Speaker 6: Okay, I know that, But I'm talking about the attributes.
Speaker 6: So do the attributes have a dependence relationship on Allah's essence?
Speaker 2: They are? They are Allah, They are Allah.
Speaker 15: You cannot say the attribution for being know all knowledgeable
Speaker 15: is good. We don't all say that. But you say
Speaker 15: Jesus is good. The Holy Spiritch is good.
Speaker 3: So the hold on.
Speaker 6: So wait a minute. So now you're so you're admitting
Speaker 6: that the attributes are dependent.
Speaker 15: I don't listen to anything.
Speaker 2: Let's sick with you.
Speaker 6: It was that not the argument you just made.
Speaker 2: No, No, let's stick with your example. It's very easy.
Speaker 6: So you don't want to talk about the attributes because
Speaker 6: it's the same problem. You don't see that.
Speaker 15: No, your example was very easy and simple for all
Speaker 15: the people that are here.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's stick with it.
Speaker 6: You see, the example is just talking about something being
Speaker 6: one and many. You don't understand that something could be
Speaker 6: one in many. You know, does all I have many attributes?
Speaker 2: Just get you one minutes?
Speaker 3: Can you let me just say so?
Speaker 6: You won't? You guys are so like emotional You just
Speaker 6: spit out stuff without listenings.
Speaker 2: Come on, one minute?
Speaker 6: Is all a one in many? Is all one in many?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: My god, he's allah when you okay?
Speaker 6: So are they really different?
Speaker 3: Look?
Speaker 6: Is there a depend you understanding? This is a debate
Speaker 6: in your own Akida's right? This is there's a dep
Speaker 6: there's a debate. There's not a debate between different aquida's
Speaker 6: about the attributes.
Speaker 2: So you the one to me? So you just okay,
Speaker 2: you speak because.
Speaker 6: You're just spitting out stuff without even listening to what
Speaker 6: I'm saying? Is that even a debate? Do they debate
Speaker 6: the dependence relationship? So you want so you want to
Speaker 6: answer these basic questions?
Speaker 2: What do you know?
Speaker 6: Are Come on? Do the different akitas debate? Do the
Speaker 6: different Akita's debate the relationship. Why are you saying my name?
Speaker 6: Every time somebody starts spitting out my name? We know
Speaker 6: that's the point at which they're losing the whole discussion.
Speaker 2: I have many many points.
Speaker 6: Do yours school's debate the relationship between Allah essence and
Speaker 6: his attributes and dependence relationships?
Speaker 2: So he won't.
Speaker 6: So he won't answer because the car analogy is only
Speaker 6: talking about the one in the miny? Do you know
Speaker 6: what the one the mini is? Do you know what
Speaker 6: the one the mini is? Agree with the So he
Speaker 6: won't even talk. So this is how silly these people are.
Speaker 6: It's like talking to children. They think that an analogy
Speaker 6: has to be one to one correspondence. Like the first
Speaker 6: guy they came on here didn't even know what he
Speaker 6: thought an analogy was unifical predication. They don't understand the
Speaker 6: difference between basic grammar terms. They don't understand. Go ahead, man,
Speaker 6: what's up?
Speaker 2: Umah?
Speaker 3: Did you there?
Speaker 6: Yep?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Let me let me correct these Muslims who can't represent
Speaker 3: anything anyone says. Now when I say Muslims, I'm talking
Speaker 3: about the suny Muslims. I don't want to put the
Speaker 3: silent undoney.
Speaker 5: And the same.
Speaker 6: He's he left, it's all, it's all soon he's in here.
Speaker 3: Yeah. But I just want to clarify everyone, go watch
Speaker 3: the clip. I never said the carnalogy is the trinity.
Speaker 3: What I said was in context. Let me just explain
Speaker 3: for the people. See, this is why Muslims sinning. Muslims,
Speaker 3: you really make us despise religion because you can't be honest.
Speaker 3: This is why I treat you the way you do.
Speaker 3: Proverbs twenty six, verse five, answer full according to his folly.
Speaker 3: Let's he become wise in his own mind.
Speaker 2: So this is why I do it.
Speaker 3: But look at the difference with Kinda than Danny. Now,
Speaker 3: in that analogy, I never said the car is analogus trinity.
Speaker 3: That's a lie I said in Creation. I have the clip,
Speaker 3: it's there on YouTube, and you guys want to lie.
Speaker 3: I said, in Creation we see complex unity. It's all around, agreed.
Speaker 6: Complex Yeah, we've made I've made that same analogy. I
Speaker 6: agree with it.
Speaker 3: Okay, So that's all one of us. That was all
Speaker 3: the analogy was. Like in Creation you see complexity, diversity
Speaker 3: and unity, composite complex unity. If that's true of the
Speaker 3: finite temporal realm, why would we think that God his
Speaker 3: being would be any less complex.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 6: That's all I said, right, And that's an analogy which
Speaker 6: we have our you as well, which is just simply that.
Speaker 6: To put this in philosophical terms for those who don't know,
Speaker 6: this is called the problem of the one in the many.
Speaker 6: Something can be one and many at the same time.
Speaker 6: That doesn't necessarily mean that it's composite. Muslims believe typically
Speaker 6: that there's a dependence relationship between between Allah and his attributes,
Speaker 6: and between the attributes and the other attributes. They only
Speaker 6: exist independence upon one another in all his essence.
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm jake, God bless you.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: You're more patient than me. I don't know how you
Speaker 3: handle them, because you see why I lost my hair.
Speaker 3: I'm looking at I said, I can't handle this. But anyway,
Speaker 3: I'm here, brother.
Speaker 6: If you got any Muslims ring them up, no, there's
Speaker 6: a million of them in here, So let's go.
Speaker 3: I bet you're gonna show what's up.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you're here.
Speaker 3: I don't hear him.
Speaker 6: He's raising his hand and he's not talking.
Speaker 3: I'm mute, yep, okay, fantastic. We had some connection issues.
Speaker 25: That's all right.
Speaker 2: We're Muslim.
Speaker 3: We want to let you know that.
Speaker 2: We believe.
Speaker 3: The Holy Or is the final testament of God. Okay,
Speaker 3: we know that you're okay, Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 26: So we believe in the Torah, we believe in the
Speaker 26: in Kiel, the Gospels, we believe in the Bibles.
Speaker 6: So but but you don't because because the Quran actually
Speaker 6: confirms the prior revelation.
Speaker 25: I just want to ask him, trying to say, we
Speaker 25: have to believe in the prior books.
Speaker 3: Can I ask you a question about one second? Let
Speaker 3: me finish my sentence. Let me finish my sentence at least.
Speaker 3: I don't want to answer. They want to preach, but
Speaker 3: go ahead. No, I don't want to preach. I was
Speaker 3: talking for you. You don't have no idea. The middle
Speaker 3: of speaking, you can ask me question what you believe.
Speaker 3: So what I was saying was, yeah, so you're very rude,
Speaker 3: very rude. No no, no, no, my profect.
Speaker 11: Right.
Speaker 3: They want to preach. Okay, I'm not preaching.
Speaker 6: No, we know your position here, So do you talking?
Speaker 11: I was talking, but you interrupted me.
Speaker 3: You're very immoral, That's what I'm gonna say. Anyway, Well,
Speaker 3: I'll try to don't talk about manners when you follow
Speaker 3: Mohammed because I'll show you his son.
Speaker 2: But he is the best profet.
Speaker 6: Do not do not, do not, do not, do not
Speaker 6: do not.
Speaker 3: Do you want want profect? Okay, good, get to your point.
Speaker 3: Do not demonize my profect. My friend it was he
Speaker 3: thought he was even possessed. He said, no, no, you are.
Speaker 3: You are a very fine that's that's in your tradition.
Speaker 3: Did you not want to do thought he was even?
Speaker 3: You met that guy so I can talk on it.
Speaker 6: We don't need a sermon. So if you have an
Speaker 6: argument for how you believe the Torah, which, by the way,
Speaker 6: the Koran says that the Torah is not corrupt, right.
Speaker 3: Right, I was going to say, okay, anything that I'm
Speaker 3: telling you, yes, I have better than you and your prophet.
Speaker 3: I'm not talking to you some No, he brought me
Speaker 3: up here.
Speaker 2: I'm with him.
Speaker 3: Whether you're like no, no, no, no, I'm talking to
Speaker 3: I'm talking to Jay the host answer me.
Speaker 6: This is so, this is so ridiculous. They will talk
Speaker 6: to me and they won't talk to you, Like if
Speaker 6: you're not going to talk to Sam and then don't
Speaker 6: don't even come on. There's no point in talking through
Speaker 6: another person. Tanji, what's up?
Speaker 3: You know why jay right? They want to pick it
Speaker 3: up because they know they can't get away with lying
Speaker 3: about the Koran and the deeds.
Speaker 6: You know the deeds as well too. I'm mute, man,
Speaker 6: what's up? Tanji? I agree? Tanji? Un mute? Uh huh,
Speaker 6: what's up?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not Muslim, but I've heard you.
Speaker 27: You never got to finish it, but I hear you
Speaker 27: start of this critique or you ask if the attributes
Speaker 27: have a sayety.
Speaker 6: Right, because it depends on how they're going to answer it,
Speaker 6: because they try to argue that if you think that
Speaker 6: there's distinctions, and for example, they'll say, does the sun
Speaker 6: possess a sayety? If he doesn't possess the power to cause,
Speaker 6: then he's diminished and he's less in their subordination. And
Speaker 6: then they'll turn around and say that the attributes have
Speaker 6: a dependence relationship upon Allah's essence and upon one another.
Speaker 6: So that's a double standard. That's the whole reason I
Speaker 6: asked them that question. But they never even get to
Speaker 6: the point of answering it.
Speaker 2: They don't believe in the absolute devinde simplicity, right.
Speaker 6: It just depends on which Muslim you're talking to, because
Speaker 6: Khalil does. But most of the Sonnies will try to
Speaker 6: argue for some kind of distinction between Allah and his attributes,
Speaker 6: which is the whole point of why they get stuck
Speaker 6: on this question. That's why I asked it.
Speaker 27: What do you think like the strongest critique against uh
Speaker 27: like strict monotheism, unitarian God is There's.
Speaker 6: A lot of different critiques. I mean, if you want
Speaker 6: to first of all, if they claim to be consistent
Speaker 6: with the Bible, they're already shooting themselves in the foot
Speaker 6: because the Bible doesn't teach their generic unitarianism, it teaches trinitarianism.
Speaker 6: So that's why they have to immediately say once we
Speaker 6: start going to all these passages of whether the Theophanies
Speaker 6: and the Trinity throughout the Old Testament. By the way,
Speaker 6: that's why they immediately say corrupt, but book is corrupt.
Speaker 6: Book is corrupt, and then we point then we point
Speaker 6: out that their own book does not say the book
Speaker 6: is corrupt, and then they then they lose their mind.
Speaker 6: So that's that's how every discussion goes.
Speaker 27: Do you have a video where you like critique mostly
Speaker 27: just this unitarian guy.
Speaker 3: By the way, to add to what Jay said. You'll
Speaker 3: be shocked for me to say this. This is why
Speaker 3: if we do set up a discussion what's had it
Speaker 3: and Danny and the other two, You'll be shocked at
Speaker 3: me saying this. The Krawn does not teach pure unitarianism,
Speaker 3: pure forms to heat. The crime actually posits more than
Speaker 3: one deity. This is why I've always challenged Muslims debate
Speaker 3: me on whether the Koran teaches pure monotheism. So that's
Speaker 3: another problem with the Muslim claim. They'll tell you it
Speaker 3: teaches in the term they came up with this towheat
Speaker 3: right to unify absolutely won and yet the chron doesn't
Speaker 3: teach it. And this is why I've challenged Muslims, says,
Speaker 3: this is your bread and butter. Challenge me, does your Quran? Now,
Speaker 3: not everyone follows the Sunni Adith like Kali and Danny.
Speaker 3: He's not a Sunni. He doesn't really care what Buhati
Speaker 3: Muslim says, So with him, I would stick with the Koran,
Speaker 3: and even from there I would demonstrate the Koran does
Speaker 3: not teach an absolute pure form of unitarianism.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: But with the Sunnys it's even worse because they go
Speaker 3: with the churn in the sunnight, and yet they don't
Speaker 3: take me up on it. Why is that because I'm
Speaker 3: such a meani? That's why, Jay, because I'm not nice?
Speaker 6: Good right. And we should also point out too, as
Speaker 6: I made the point in my open aning statement to
Speaker 6: Daniel Hokikichu in that debate, the Jews for the most
Speaker 6: part were not unified in their unitarianism. So Jews were
Speaker 6: not unitarian. They taught multiple different views. They had a
Speaker 6: quote fluid view of the fact that God believed that,
Speaker 6: they believe that God had multiple powers, multiple hypostasies, and
Speaker 6: modern Rabbis also are admitting this in many cases. So
Speaker 6: this idea that there's this pure unitarianism that existed in
Speaker 6: the Torah and in the Injeel, that's all made up.
Speaker 6: That's all blogny.
Speaker 27: Do you have a stream or a video on YouTube?
Speaker 27: Were you critique thisly in depth?
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, tons of them. I don't know specifically,
Speaker 6: I mean, but I mean we've been just go watch
Speaker 6: my you know, Trinity the Old Testament. Sam's done, Trinity
Speaker 6: in the Old Testament talks. All of that will get
Speaker 6: into that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And also if you want to see a critique
Speaker 3: of what the Crown teaches about unity. If you go
Speaker 3: to my YouTube channel, put in craw on trinity. I
Speaker 3: actually argue for a form of chronic trinitarianism, which is
Speaker 3: a counterfeit, but nonetheless it's there, so you can do them.
Speaker 3: Look at That's why I'm asking Wilims here, refute me,
Speaker 3: Prove I'm lying, Prove that I'm misinterpreting the Crown. Come,
Speaker 3: it's here, book, bread and butter, to heat. Let's see
Speaker 3: if someone will take us up on the challenge.
Speaker 6: Go ahead, Hamza, what's up, Hamsa? I'm trying to add you.
Speaker 6: Do you want to talk or not? You're the one
Speaker 6: critiquing Sam's car analogy, so we're at.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 6: Won't let me add him?
Speaker 3: So that's good. Now. I wonder if any because I
Speaker 3: have I want them to address their so called to heat.
Speaker 3: Let's see if anyone will do it. Let's see anyone.
Speaker 2: Else he left.
Speaker 6: He won't do it. Wonderful, wonder why you left?
Speaker 3: I wonder, Beauty Jay, I'm not as sharp dressed as
Speaker 3: you and nice as you.
Speaker 6: Jail, what's up?
Speaker 2: Hey?
Speaker 3: I was real I was trying to ask about right now.
Speaker 26: I'm more like in between of agnostic and trying to
Speaker 26: find my way into Christianity. But I came across your
Speaker 26: channelent scene like your orthodox Christian came across Sam as
Speaker 26: well independently.
Speaker 2: Muh.
Speaker 26: I was being to ask like based off of because
Speaker 26: I had to discussed with my uncle because he's an
Speaker 26: ordained pastor at a Baptist church about solo and scriptur.
Speaker 3: Doct and.
Speaker 26: How do you how could I like conveyed, It's like
Speaker 26: not really because I kind of came across that it
Speaker 26: wasn't really making sense.
Speaker 3: But I don't know how to explain how those doctrines
Speaker 3: don't make sense. He said, there's no Protestant thinking about
Speaker 3: this doctrine.
Speaker 6: Well, go watch my debate with uh Dale the Protestants,
Speaker 6: Me and doctor Bo Branson against Dale and his Protestant buddy.
Speaker 6: That whole debate will answer a lot of those questions
Speaker 6: if you're looking for a sol scripture of debate. Let's see,
Speaker 6: do we have any Muslims that want to come on
Speaker 6: the debate?
Speaker 3: By the way, since this is Jay's channel and he
Speaker 3: wants engage a variet of issues, I want to engage
Speaker 3: the Muslims. So Muslims come up and challenge us.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're going to get first place to Muslims exactly.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then when he wants to continue to discuss
Speaker 3: with Catholics Protestants, God bless him, you know. But with me,
Speaker 3: I want to stick the Muslims. The reason why is
Speaker 3: because I don't want to add any bad blood between
Speaker 3: Orthodox and Catholic. I love them both. So I'm Jay's
Speaker 3: favorite heretic.
Speaker 6: I haven't called you heretic.
Speaker 3: I called myself that. Sorry, someone else calls me that.
Speaker 6: Jayl Vanni. Do you want to talk? We're asking for
Speaker 6: Muslims who want to come to go ahead.
Speaker 8: Hey, First of all, let me just say that I
Speaker 8: am very impressed. I was brought up as a Pentacles.
Speaker 8: I grew up and then it started Bronx New York,
Speaker 8: and I just wanted to ask one simple question.
Speaker 3: I watched one of your videos earlier.
Speaker 2: Today when you said that Jesus.
Speaker 6: Can me or Sam Sam.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, you said that Jesus can via the seed
Speaker 3: of David.
Speaker 14: Okay, but hold on, and then I are telling me
Speaker 14: hold on, yeah please.
Speaker 3: So I know that Jesus came to the Virgin Mary
Speaker 3: via the Holy Spirit. So do you want to answer
Speaker 3: you now? So in Romans, one three, when Paul tells
Speaker 3: you Jesus of the seed of David according to the
Speaker 3: flesh Romans one three, two Timothy two eight, where Paul
Speaker 3: says that Jesus is of the seed of David according
Speaker 3: to my Gospel two Timothy two eight, Romans one to three,
Speaker 3: or in Revelation twenty two sixteen, where Jesus says, I
Speaker 3: am the root and offspring of David. Do you want
Speaker 3: me to go on and show you that the Bible
Speaker 3: says he's of the seed of David. Let me repeat
Speaker 3: the verses again for you Romans one to three. Christ
Speaker 3: the seed of David according to the flesh tewod Timothy two,
Speaker 3: verse eight, that Jesus the seed of David according to
Speaker 3: My Gospel Revelation twenty two sixteen, Jesus speaking, I am
Speaker 3: the root and offspring of David. And then in Acts two,
Speaker 3: I hope you're listening to the verses twenty four to
Speaker 3: thirty two. We are told there, specifically in Acts two thirty,
Speaker 3: that God had shown David that from his loins, from
Speaker 3: his physical lineage, he would raise up the Christ. So
Speaker 3: the Bible says he's of the seed of David. So
Speaker 3: where's the problem.
Speaker 6: Probably that the.
Speaker 3: Good to know?
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, the Bible says that he can.
Speaker 3: He admits, Yeah, even says that you're that Jay. He's
Speaker 3: got a problem with the Bible.
Speaker 6: He goes, Yeah, I mean the Dividic Covenant right requires
Speaker 6: that the Messiah by of the seat of David two
Speaker 6: Samuel seven. So what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he didn't come through the via the Holy Spirit?
Speaker 2: Who said he didn't? He did? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Who said he didn't? Think a little deeply? You think
Speaker 3: that Jesus can only be the seat of David from
Speaker 3: a man, not from his mother.
Speaker 6: His human nature is from Mary. So that's how.
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 6: That in my case?
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 6: Rest your case by admitting our point. Okay, good job. R.
Speaker 2: D J.
Speaker 6: Wants to come back. What's up, man? You gotta argument
Speaker 6: this time?
Speaker 3: I don't know he is? I don't remember?
Speaker 24: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Could I can I one on one?
Speaker 2: Sam? Real quick? Sure?
Speaker 3: If you don't want to beat me up?
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 3: I don't know who is it? Was he here earlier?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 13: Yeah? So Sam, is it true that Yahweh ordered an
Speaker 13: army to murder babies?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's so true that Allah and chapter two,
Speaker 3: verse two forty six fifty and chapter five of your
Speaker 3: front twenty twenty six a law order that Musa and
Speaker 3: he said slaughter babies. It's also true. Show me, show me,
Speaker 3: show me. Read the verse. Read the verse. Read stop parking,
Speaker 3: take it easy, five twenty to twenty six. There your
Speaker 3: law set that told Musa to tell the Israelites to
Speaker 3: enter into the Promised Land Canaan. But they were afraid
Speaker 3: because of the giants. That means your Allah confirms he
Speaker 3: said Joshua into the land, the slaughter cattle and babies.
Speaker 3: Where does it where does it say that in the
Speaker 3: verse to murder babies? Okay? So where does it say
Speaker 3: in the Kuran five six, that's that war that was
Speaker 3: carried out against the Amlakites. What's from Allah? Does it
Speaker 3: say it there?
Speaker 13: So you're you're you're changing the topic from the world discussion.
Speaker 6: No, he brought up. They brought up the very thing
Speaker 6: from your book. Dude, I got it on the screen.
Speaker 3: He's okay, read read the verse and let me know
Speaker 3: you want to murder some.
Speaker 13: Babies in that verse because he is the murder of
Speaker 13: babies in that verse, you guys.
Speaker 3: Or know the context is showed me, show me show
Speaker 3: me the word babies.
Speaker 6: Okay, so this here we go with the word expectation,
Speaker 6: which is not even you don't even hold to that.
Speaker 3: Okay, well still, look, let me ask you another thing,
Speaker 3: exactly exactly way your Michael, y'all, what instantly said to
Speaker 3: murder being Allah flooded the people of Noah? Did he
Speaker 3: drown babies? That's God doing that, not in or drown babies.
Speaker 6: Oh that's God doing it, not an army doing it. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 6: good art, Get on another question, Yeah exactly, that's not
Speaker 6: That's how I see you, guys.
Speaker 3: Let me ask you another questions when answer he murder babies?
Speaker 3: Yes or no? Are there are there baby? When Allah
Speaker 3: pelted Sodom and go mora with in the word kill
Speaker 3: babies in the verse that you quoted, Are there babies?
Speaker 2: Yes or no?
Speaker 3: I want to see if you're honest, Sam, chapter Live
Speaker 3: Christianity will teach you to lie.
Speaker 6: You understand that the verse is about the death of babies.
Speaker 6: You don't understand that so an army is ordered to
Speaker 6: murder babies in that your own, your own God drowned
Speaker 6: babies in the flood.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's God doing it. That's okay.
Speaker 6: Exactly. So what's the difference.
Speaker 13: Yeah, there's a there's a difference, and it's what forcing
Speaker 13: another human to murder babies?
Speaker 3: That's that's ford to decide, not humans. Notice he said
Speaker 3: the God decided, So Allah.
Speaker 13: Decided that Mussa, he did not decide to murder babies.
Speaker 3: That's yahweh Allah, you're Satan.
Speaker 13: Yeah, Where where's the word babies in the burden?
Speaker 6: This is Muslim?
Speaker 2: There sam.
Speaker 3: The god that ordering an army to murder is where
Speaker 3: is the word law chafon mama? Chathon ordered Musa to
Speaker 3: enter the promised then to kill them. It doesn't say
Speaker 3: don't kill babies. Where does the verse say that, don't
Speaker 3: shift the burden?
Speaker 6: Well, he's coming. They always do this. They come up
Speaker 6: with these arbitrary standards, and they say, well, but the
Speaker 6: verse doesn't say this word. Where's trinity in the Bible?
Speaker 6: Where's in the Bible?
Speaker 3: See that's the thing. This is why they want to
Speaker 3: talk to you about me, because I know these arguments
Speaker 3: and turn against them. But you guys heard him admit
Speaker 3: that his Allah was the one who drawn babies at
Speaker 3: the time of No, that's okay. If my Olah murders
Speaker 3: baby as long as humans.
Speaker 2: Don't do it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's that silly. Well, this is the same point
Speaker 6: when I asked Azra Rashid, he said that women's private
Speaker 6: parts are nasty and God could never be near them.
Speaker 6: And I said, well, who created them?
Speaker 17: You know what you do it?
Speaker 3: Next time, Jay, you know what you do? What when
Speaker 3: they say that about the private part? Says this is
Speaker 3: chapter sixty six, verse twelve. Now the Muslims are ashamed
Speaker 3: of this translation, but I'm going to give you a
Speaker 3: translation from a Muslim. Well, I don't know I can share.
Speaker 3: I'll send it to you on Skype. It says about
Speaker 3: Mary Mediam vint Imaran. Now, guys, this is not the
Speaker 3: real Mary, so don't be offended. This is not the
Speaker 3: real Mary. It says she guarded senate for Jaha. Ask
Speaker 3: any Arabic reading Christian, the word fuage means private part.
Speaker 3: She guarded her private part and we blew into her
Speaker 3: private parts. So Allah loves to blow into women's private parts.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but and I mean this is there's multiple examples.
Speaker 6: I've got it pulled up on the screen. It's making
Speaker 6: your point there. I agree. But what I'm saying is
Speaker 6: that I mean, if if God creates these things, like,
Speaker 6: obviously they can't be inherently unclean. That's kind of silly exactly.
Speaker 3: But that's my point.
Speaker 2: Jay.
Speaker 3: If they have a problem with God becoming human and
Speaker 3: coming out of the holy concent crated woman, a blessed virgin,
Speaker 3: then that means they must have a problem with their
Speaker 3: God blowing into a woman's private.
Speaker 6: Thing exactly, the JJ blower. And it's on the screen,
Speaker 6: by the way. Yep, So here we have another chrome.
Speaker 6: What's up there?
Speaker 2: We go?
Speaker 6: I'm mute, Chrome, you have to unmute to speak. I
Speaker 6: wasn't expecting ego sistem.
Speaker 9: I was listening to your Fabian and Milner conspiracy video
Speaker 9: the second part.
Speaker 2: Yes, really very interesting question, not religious?
Speaker 3: How old?
Speaker 2: Like when was the book that you're referencing with all
Speaker 2: its truths? What was before that was? Like? When was
Speaker 2: that made?
Speaker 6: What are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Like, so you guys are referencing sorry this.
Speaker 6: Parble do so I'm not trying to be like that
Speaker 6: is this on the topic. We're not talking about conspiracy
Speaker 6: stuff today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I'm just saying that. That's the kind
Speaker 2: of first full video of yours I watched.
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, yeah, I talked about Islam being a tool
Speaker 6: in the UK and the U. What about it?
Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, I'm not that's not I wasn't making to
Speaker 3: jump into it in that way.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying I don't follow any these books. I
Speaker 2: haven't read any of them. I don't really know anything.
Speaker 6: Okay, So what's the question.
Speaker 2: When the book? Is there a book that you follow
Speaker 2: that you think has like the master information?
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know there's any one book that
Speaker 6: has master information. I mean I listed many books. The
Speaker 6: book that you're talking about is this book Milner Fabian
Speaker 6: Conspiracy by Ratio, and that he's basing a lot of
Speaker 6: his information on the book Tragian Hope, which is a
Speaker 6: gigantic geopolitical text that I've lectured through. So you may
Speaker 6: be asking about Tragian Hope. MKG, what's up?
Speaker 3: Muslims come up, guys?
Speaker 6: Come on, yeah, I mean, there's one hundred and thirteen
Speaker 6: fourteen people here. We got another nine hundred online. So
Speaker 6: where's all the Muslims at.
Speaker 3: I happened too, I bought a nine hundred on mind.
Speaker 6: Okay, And Muslims come on in here. You got here's
Speaker 6: the link to the stream to the spaces.
Speaker 3: You're not going to get this offen. This brother is
Speaker 3: busy and I'm busy for me to be here. Come on,
Speaker 3: Muslims moving my place? Come on? Ye go ahead, Yeah,
Speaker 3: not a Muslim.
Speaker 16: But regarding the huge job issue, I think that what's
Speaker 16: happening here, it's pretty funny. They know that they don't
Speaker 16: want to do anything that's non They want to basically
Speaker 16: throw the Salafies at you and just put you away
Speaker 16: like they don't want to deal with you guys, because
Speaker 16: it's just it's so frustrating to see what's happening. I
Speaker 16: think Sam the snow offense to you, but I don't
Speaker 16: think he.
Speaker 3: Y'all will do it if you're there.
Speaker 6: I think Jaya, he's already, he's already declined.
Speaker 3: What do you mean? Yeah, no, I think Myron can
Speaker 3: get him to come. But it's you, young man. This
Speaker 3: is recorded. Actually we haven't recorded. Uh Mohammed jab said
Speaker 3: he'll only debate me if I agreed to fight him
Speaker 3: in a mixed martial arts No, I'm not lying. We've
Speaker 3: got to record it. He goes, he'll only debate me
Speaker 3: if I agree to fight him in a professional well
Speaker 3: not professional, he's amateur. But in a mixed martial arts service.
Speaker 3: So I said, Okay, tell you what, here, three debates.
Speaker 3: We'll do the three debates, and I promise you after
Speaker 3: the debates, I'll train to knock your teeth out in
Speaker 3: a MMA contest. Because he thinks this, hears me, he goes, no,
Speaker 3: We're going to do the fight first, then the debates.
Speaker 3: I'm not lying, Jay, we have recorded.
Speaker 6: I believe.
Speaker 16: Yeah, there's a lot of lines going on here. The
Speaker 16: reason I brought that up, I know you rejected it.
Speaker 16: But this thing is evolving because people are pushing back.
Speaker 16: They don't want Jake on Myron's being very attentive to
Speaker 16: this because he's very attentive on Twitter or ex whatever.
Speaker 16: So this thing is evolving. Nothing's fixed. Anything could change,
Speaker 16: that's my belief anyway, So the two v two could
Speaker 16: turn into a one v one. It could be Daniel,
Speaker 16: it could switch, that's my opinion.
Speaker 6: Well, I'm not going to have the same debate one
Speaker 6: on one with Daniel that I've already had one.
Speaker 3: I'll do that. I want him, okay, But one thing,
Speaker 3: why would Muslims not want Jay Dyer, who has become
Speaker 3: known as an orthodoxygitarian philosopher, extraordinary and me known for
Speaker 3: my knowledge of Ala. I'm not trying to boast and
Speaker 3: take us and then squash us in order to vindicate us.
Speaker 2: Not because you.
Speaker 16: Guys are on the offensive. Every other Christian debate, there's
Speaker 16: always the defensive. It's always defending the Trinity, defending you know, Christianity,
Speaker 16: defending what's in the Old Testament. It's never offensive, it's
Speaker 16: never is there any continuity with the.
Speaker 3: Right you saw when they attacked the Old Testament. I
Speaker 3: just go to the crowd to show that, according to Krawn,
Speaker 3: all ordered these wars in the Old Testament.
Speaker 16: Yeah, so they're not used to this, and I think
Speaker 16: it's just a demeanor thing. They want the more traditional
Speaker 16: and that's why when.
Speaker 3: You watch like Jay and Shabi Ali.
Speaker 16: Shaver Ali is in this very you know two five
Speaker 16: kind of demeanor of like oh, cordial back and forth
Speaker 16: and Jays just hitting him with everything. Is like Jay Jay,
Speaker 16: if you if you, if you don't mind that, please
Speaker 16: just wait, I'm going you know, like he's just stammering,
Speaker 16: he can't handle it. I think that's part of it.
Speaker 16: And what makes me really mad is that Mohammed head job.
Speaker 16: That's his style. That's what he did to David Wood.
Speaker 16: He was filibustering and dish galloping on that stage. I
Speaker 16: don't know how many years ago.
Speaker 3: See, this is why might like he could give it,
Speaker 3: but he can't take it. This is very short. This
Speaker 3: is why my brother, I know their mindset and I'm
Speaker 3: willing to stoop in the mud and stuff them in
Speaker 3: their mud because I'm willing to go there and treat
Speaker 3: them accordingly.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So this is probably why he doesn't want to be
Speaker 3: because he knows he won't get away with rhetoric with me,
Speaker 3: Sam and Jay.
Speaker 16: I don't know how close here are with James, but
Speaker 16: I'm based on the video that Daniel put out.
Speaker 3: It seemed pretty straightforward. So James lying like, yes, brother,
Speaker 3: what straightforward? He said that he changed the dates like
Speaker 3: if you did you watch, my brother, You're gonna make
Speaker 3: me want to hang myself with my shoes. Did you watch?
Speaker 3: When I published the email on my YouTube channel comnic
Speaker 3: post because James reached out to me and I said,
Speaker 3: here are the four topics. He came back and said
Speaker 3: Daniel Hakikachu accepted. I go great, I'm ready. Then he
Speaker 3: comes back and tells me here's what Danny wants to debate.
Speaker 3: So he confused me. I said, wait, I thought you
Speaker 3: said he accepted these four debates. No, he wants to
Speaker 3: debate these three with those three. And I said, now, James,
Speaker 3: and the emails are there, dude, I got the receipts.
Speaker 3: I said, I want to understand, because here's where I
Speaker 3: don't understand.
Speaker 2: And I said it to Jay.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to waste my time and breath again
Speaker 3: on this coward because now he can call out my bluff.
Speaker 3: I said, Daniel, let's do the debates. Now, who's running?
Speaker 3: I said, debate me? Muhammads do the Bible? Why do
Speaker 3: I do that? See what I did to that Muslim.
Speaker 3: If I show them that Muhammad confirmed the Bible, they
Speaker 3: can't attack the Bible anymore because they're going to bury
Speaker 3: their profit. But if they agree with Muhammad the Bible
Speaker 3: is not corrupted, then that still buries Mohammad because he
Speaker 3: contradicts the Bible down what they do.
Speaker 16: I just want to make one last point and that
Speaker 16: I'll get out of your ears.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I know, But.
Speaker 16: One thing I really want to emphasize here is that
Speaker 16: I feel there's a momentum. There's a big snowball happening here,
Speaker 16: that's continuously rolling.
Speaker 3: I don't want us to lose this, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Whether whether who pulls out pulls in.
Speaker 6: Doesn't matter, we've already said.
Speaker 3: But I think that's very clear that I think and
Speaker 3: me as we speak, we appreciate you.
Speaker 6: We've already agreed to whoever we don't.
Speaker 16: So basically, I'm saying that for the last I've seen
Speaker 16: this the last five seven months, people are super chatting,
Speaker 16: fresh and fit people are super super chatting sneaker.
Speaker 3: Why aren't you having jay On? Why actually having sam On?
Speaker 3: Why actually having jay On?
Speaker 16: When they're ignoring, they're acting like they're they're not reading
Speaker 16: these things.
Speaker 3: It's very strange.
Speaker 16: So I'm just saying that the people are wanting this,
Speaker 16: and I just even if can I give you because you.
Speaker 3: Seem like really hurt and can I come and hug you?
Speaker 16: I mean, I want to see this, I really want
Speaker 16: to see this, and I don't want don't want this.
Speaker 3: Can I get in a word before you? I mean,
Speaker 3: you coming off to so you deserve it because you
Speaker 3: keep wanting can I know on your side? But okay, okayorry, okay,
Speaker 3: why don't you hit the door and make sure it's
Speaker 3: it's you on the way out.
Speaker 6: All right, we have I think we have a Muslim here. Uh,
Speaker 6: let's see.
Speaker 3: If you know that guy's address. I want to go
Speaker 3: give him a little hug and maybe buddy bike.
Speaker 6: Sounded like you want to, Zach, Zach Riah, what's up?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 6: We had a Muslim? He dropped off Muslims if you
Speaker 6: like to come on, and.
Speaker 3: Uh, Jay's got other topics he wants to get to,
Speaker 3: so come almost ms put me in by place so
Speaker 3: I can leave him to his sessions.
Speaker 6: Zach Ryan, what's up?
Speaker 28: Yes, sir, I just want to briefly say Sam schmou
Speaker 28: and I just heard about you today and hear that
Speaker 28: and uh yeah no, I I mean we need more
Speaker 28: of you kicking Muslims asses because they really can't seem
Speaker 28: to handle how articulate you are. And and just there
Speaker 28: is not enough content and out there where articulate Christians
Speaker 28: are refuting Islam. So I'm going to get out of here,
Speaker 28: but I just want to say you remember, I want
Speaker 28: to see more of Jay and you freaking Mike. I
Speaker 28: don't care who you're debating anytime.
Speaker 3: J knows I'm here I got his back, not that
Speaker 3: he needs me at any time, but I remember this.
Speaker 3: I remember that seeing in the radio ice here, We're
Speaker 3: going to kick your ass all the way back to
Speaker 3: Bagdad like that.
Speaker 6: What's up, Doc Holliday, what's up man? I'm youute, my joy?
Speaker 15: Hi Sam?
Speaker 2: I just got like two short questions if I can.
Speaker 2: The best question is in relation to Hell.
Speaker 21: You know he's letting me friends all colleagues that come
Speaker 21: on spices, I multodox Christian. But in relation to the
Speaker 21: Holy Trinity, saying would they like follow the case principle?
Speaker 21: A good enough example when I questioned the Holy Trinity.
Speaker 21: If a person steps out said and says, the sun
Speaker 21: shining the little Jesus cross is the sun. The sun
Speaker 21: provide us energy, warmth, and light. But the sun is
Speaker 21: still one right, good initial example.
Speaker 3: And the second let me comment on that. You gave
Speaker 3: an example that was used even in early Christian fathers
Speaker 3: with Jay would know more than me. But that example
Speaker 3: actually is derived from Hebrews one three. What do I
Speaker 3: mean if you look at the word Hebrew and Hebrews
Speaker 3: one three, there's a word apple gosma. Excuse me for
Speaker 3: butchering the Greek apple Gosma says, he is the radiance
Speaker 3: of God's glory, radiance the outshining of God's glory. So
Speaker 3: that imagery, that imagery itself evokes the image of the sun,
Speaker 3: let's say, and then the rays of the sun. So
Speaker 3: there the Lord is depicted as the rays, the radiance
Speaker 3: of the sun. So that would be an apt analogy.
Speaker 3: But you're gonna have to keep stressing an analogy is
Speaker 3: not identical to God because those.
Speaker 6: You get the point, Yeah, and I got heures one
Speaker 6: pulled up here for those that are curious, we want
Speaker 6: to see those texts there. And then we got a
Speaker 6: Muslim here, Muslim. He's just conveniently named Muslim. Makes it easier.
Speaker 3: Watcher's gonna attack. I'm mute, all ready for the attack.
Speaker 6: Let's go, you got I'm mute Muslim?
Speaker 3: Hello?
Speaker 2: Yeah, hello, hello, hello, yes, yes, hello, yes, that's before
Speaker 2: we sold.
Speaker 22: Like, I just want to say, I have a lot
Speaker 22: I have a lot of cool pick friends.
Speaker 3: Okay, go ahead, Okay, let's see I would just like.
Speaker 2: We have now both the name of.
Speaker 6: Okay, how do you stead are going to prove the
Speaker 6: torres corrupted? Here we go?
Speaker 3: Oh you can't you please hold on listen to me.
Speaker 3: Please don't make the mistake. Are you listening you want
Speaker 3: to talk about? Please don't make the mistake of misquoting
Speaker 3: from a bus. Are you gonna make.
Speaker 2: This set up? Wait?
Speaker 3: You're gonna give me who.
Speaker 12: And Ben?
Speaker 3: Are you gonna give me somewhere?
Speaker 2: No love?
Speaker 3: Can you hear me?
Speaker 6: Can you hear me?
Speaker 3: Now? Elbodi? What centuries of the body? No?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 3: I said, who oh Albani? You mean the twentieth century? Set?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 3: I well, I'm going the way Ja. If you don't
Speaker 3: know he's appealing Albanie. Can let me explain to Jay
Speaker 3: who you're quoting. Dude, Okay, it's.
Speaker 6: Hard to hear what's being said.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's referring to chef Albani. He was an
Speaker 3: Albanian chef of the twentieth century.
Speaker 2: So that's the head.
Speaker 3: He is going to quote you from some guy from
Speaker 3: the twentieth century. Remember that before I know?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's funny. Get to that da before the time
Speaker 3: for night prayer and then you're going to have to
Speaker 3: go to sleep and then flush out saying that if
Speaker 3: you're not in the morning.
Speaker 22: But yeah, I'm going to Okay, what's that good? I'm
Speaker 22: I'm going to yes, yes.
Speaker 5: And I'm the American Norman and Abbie Berta and Abbi call.
Speaker 3: One.
Speaker 5: Have this is a hood?
Speaker 3: Okay translate, okay, one. We had a talk in private
Speaker 3: translated guy, because I give you from your pa.
Speaker 25: If you are going to I want to already.
Speaker 3: Can you translate, buddy before the rapture?
Speaker 6: Come on, we don't need you to read the whole
Speaker 6: Arabic thing. Just make the argument translated.
Speaker 22: Guy, be patient.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It also great when he was with go ahead translated.
Speaker 6: If you're going to come on, dude, stop?
Speaker 3: Does this guy translate this year? Is he waiting for?
Speaker 3: Can you translate? To the point that the pones of
Speaker 3: Israel rut a book and left the Yeah, you just
Speaker 3: embarrassed yourself, did you?
Speaker 15: Guys?
Speaker 2: Hear it?
Speaker 3: Let me let me? Can I address your headeth that
Speaker 3: now it's gonna to bury you. I'm going to do
Speaker 3: your jeniza. Guys that you hear what he said? The
Speaker 3: sons of Israel wrote a book. Can I address you?
Speaker 3: Or you want to keep reciting Kuran by Barkil? The
Speaker 3: Sons of Israel left the book, wrote a book, left
Speaker 3: the Torah. Now number one, that's the sons of Israel.
Speaker 3: But I know you're not too bright. The Toro is
Speaker 3: also in the hands of the Christians and they didn't
Speaker 3: change it. So even if I agree with you, even
Speaker 3: if I agree with your perversion of that hadif even
Speaker 3: if I agree, all you're proving is that some Jews
Speaker 3: corrupt the Torah. But the Toro is also with the Christians,
Speaker 3: and your prophet didn't say the Christians corrupted the Torah,
Speaker 3: so this tour is still preserved. Secondly, he didn't say
Speaker 3: they changed the Torah. He said they left the Torah
Speaker 3: for another book. How can they leave the Torah if
Speaker 3: they don't know what the Torah is? Genius?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've heard you make that argument too, on another
Speaker 6: h on another argument that you have with somebody else.
Speaker 6: Do you want to make your second point?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the genius tell me, how can they abandoned the
Speaker 3: tour if they didn't have it? I'm you, Okay, I
Speaker 3: don't know why I left.
Speaker 6: How did they leave the tour if they didn't have it?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Can I get any reading?
Speaker 3: Can you answer the read the rest of the you know,
Speaker 3: I know was insomnia, But can you I'll when when
Speaker 3: you go and get me when you when you read.
Speaker 2: And you.
Speaker 6: Out of your nose, are you going to answer how
Speaker 6: they left at it? They didn't have it or not?
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, as a certain they didn't have it. Oh
Speaker 3: they lost it? Yeah it, Oh they did, that's why.
Speaker 3: And soon I'm not going to use a Albani against you.
Speaker 3: You mentioned Albani right soon in a number forty four
Speaker 3: thirty four, and I'll get you the link, j.
Speaker 12: Son.
Speaker 3: Can I wish the point you want to again? Let
Speaker 3: me finish the point. And soon a classified as hassan
Speaker 3: by Albani. Your prophets said to the Jews, bring me
Speaker 3: the torah. They brought the torah. He put it on
Speaker 3: the cushion. There torah, and he said, I believe in
Speaker 3: you and him who sent you. How did they if
Speaker 3: they brought the torah to your profit? This only is dying. No,
Speaker 3: it's I'm gonna no, no, no, I'm gonna get the idea.
Speaker 3: Don't let him run stop presiding, Koran. We heard you.
Speaker 3: Take it easy. Let me get you there, Jake, you're
Speaker 3: gonna change your position. It's happens. It's yeah. I hold
Speaker 3: on a bit t.
Speaker 6: Send you the link you can sent on Skype. I
Speaker 6: got skype up.
Speaker 12: Okay, oh, I don't.
Speaker 3: Want to hear you recite.
Speaker 2: Let's let us bring.
Speaker 3: Let's bring the because you said they lost it. I
Speaker 3: think the only thing you was lost is the brainsails
Speaker 3: from kissing the black stone. Because here it says they
Speaker 3: had it.
Speaker 6: I got it pulled up. I have it pulled up.
Speaker 3: Can you read jay? Can you read it?
Speaker 6: From a group of Jews came and invited the Messenger
Speaker 6: of a So he visited them in their school. They
Speaker 6: said him, one of our men has committed for nication
Speaker 6: with a woman, so pronounced judgment upon them. They placed
Speaker 6: a cushion for the Messenger of Allah, who sat on
Speaker 6: it and said, bring the Torah. It was then brought.
Speaker 6: He then withdrew the cushion beneath him and placed the
Speaker 6: Torah on it, saying, I believe THEE and in him
Speaker 6: who revealed the Then he said, bring me one who
Speaker 6: has learned among you. The young man was brought. The
Speaker 6: transmitter then miss mentioned the rest of this tradition of stoning,
Speaker 6: similar to the one transmitted about my league from Nafi.
Speaker 3: What's the great there?
Speaker 15: What is it?
Speaker 3: What is the great hawsan? That means good? Now did
Speaker 3: you hear him, Jay, because then you can engage in logically.
Speaker 3: He said, they lost the Tora, right, that's what he said.
Speaker 3: What what torah then did they bring? If it was lost?
Speaker 3: Now you can engage them logically. Go ahead, I'll just okay.
Speaker 3: And is the only one who know you're lying? Yes,
Speaker 3: that's a lie. Ja, let me l Josie, you're a liar?
Speaker 3: Can I make my point? L Josie said that there
Speaker 3: was a group of Ulama that cited this headdeth as
Speaker 3: proof that the Torah has not been changed? Why are
Speaker 3: you lying? Let me get you that article?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was about to Yeah this your answering isla article?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Did you get fam?
Speaker 2: You have it?
Speaker 6: Is it the one about the Bible's not being corrupted?
Speaker 2: That one?
Speaker 3: This one is one specific. I'll get you. Okay, this guy,
Speaker 3: can I make them people see why you are Let
Speaker 3: me explain to that. The guy just lied, he said,
Speaker 3: El Albani is the only one who said Hassan. But Jane,
Speaker 3: did you hear earlier? Who did he quote Ellbani?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 3: But now all of a sudden, Al Albani is not
Speaker 3: good enough when it says it's Hassan. But now notice
Speaker 3: his lie. He said, it's only al Albani. You're lying
Speaker 3: because it paying Josiah said. Other Muslim scholars accepted this,
Speaker 3: headef as good and use it as proof that Torah
Speaker 3: has not been corrupted. So let me get the article
Speaker 3: because we don't want to hear you. Let me get
Speaker 3: the article. Wait so people can see you're a liar.
Speaker 3: Just one second, one second, buddy. See this is why
Speaker 3: they don't want me to be with you, because they'll
Speaker 3: see what happens. Now here, Jay, the article right here,
Speaker 3: it's been paying El jos And for the people who
Speaker 3: don't know, because I don't think this guy's going to
Speaker 3: tell you. It's been paying El Josiah was the student
Speaker 3: of Ibn tay Me, Ibbin tay Me. Uh why because
Speaker 3: the cellafie those anthropomorphists believe that Ibn Tamy is one
Speaker 3: of their greatest scholars and it's two premier students. It
Speaker 3: been paying El Josia and it been k now Jay,
Speaker 3: as you open it, remember he just said, only al
Speaker 3: Albani accepted this. IDE's right.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now I can't see your screen, but you're goodness, okay,
Speaker 3: where do I see your screen? Here?
Speaker 6: On YouTube?
Speaker 3: Oh? You're on YouTube. Okay, I'm sorry, man, I didn't know.
Speaker 3: Let me go to YouTube channel. But on the screen,
Speaker 3: do you see that part says Abu da would Yeah.
Speaker 6: Let me make you see it. Let me make it
Speaker 6: to where everybody can see it here.
Speaker 3: And you'll see Abudhou. Now for the context here, I
Speaker 3: been famous saying there's a group of scholars that said
Speaker 3: that the Tora has never been corrupted.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: He mentions, let me tell the people, because the Muslim
Speaker 3: is going to know who these are. He mentions Imam
Speaker 3: el Bukhari El Bukhari, the collector of the Hadiza Bukhari.
Speaker 3: He's one of those that Iban Pam says, believe that
Speaker 3: none of the books of a law can be corrupted.
Speaker 3: The tour on the Gospel have never been corrupted. Right,
Speaker 3: And then he quotes abudo this headith. What does it
Speaker 3: say if you can read it?
Speaker 6: A group of Jewish people invited the Messenger of Allah
Speaker 6: to the house. When they came, they asked him, oh,
Speaker 6: Abu Kasim, one of our men committed anulture with a woman.
Speaker 6: What is your judgment against him? So they placed a
Speaker 6: pillow and asked the Messenger of Allah to set on it.
Speaker 6: The messenger of all oppursuit to say, bring me the torah.
Speaker 6: When they brought it, he removed the pillow from underneath
Speaker 6: him and placed the tour on it and said, I
Speaker 6: believe in you and the one who revealed you. And
Speaker 6: then he said, bring me one of you who have
Speaker 6: the most knowledge. They brought him a young man who
Speaker 6: to the story of the stony.
Speaker 3: And then I'll notice what it says right after that?
Speaker 3: What did they say?
Speaker 6: The scholar said, if the tora was corrupted, he would
Speaker 6: not have placed it on the pillow, and he would
Speaker 6: not have said I believed in you and the one
Speaker 6: who revealed you.
Speaker 3: Did you catch that?
Speaker 2: Jay?
Speaker 6: Yep?
Speaker 3: Scholars plural who accepted this narration as authenticness prove that
Speaker 3: the tour is not corrupt. Why is he lying?
Speaker 6: Well, it seems to change based on what they need
Speaker 6: at the time. The argument seemed to change based on
Speaker 6: what they need to do at the time.
Speaker 3: So you lied now now unless he has a better argument,
Speaker 3: your arguments are pathetic and weak, like yourn.
Speaker 2: So is he there?
Speaker 6: Do you want to come back and speak?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So don't play anymore. He left because you're going
Speaker 3: to embarrass all on his messenger. See the whole your
Speaker 3: entire religion is weak, Dave, not just your ideas. Any
Speaker 3: other Muslim want to come and put me in my
Speaker 3: place now if you haven't no one else let me.
Speaker 3: Don't want you want me to wrap it up for you, brother, because.
Speaker 15: I don't know.
Speaker 6: Well, we got a couple more people. See if there's
Speaker 6: uscis go ahead.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm Muslim, but I did just have
Speaker 3: a couple of questions for I Sam related to a topic.
Speaker 3: Yess the topic.
Speaker 6: Is Islam with Sam right now, so you can ask
Speaker 6: me those questions about that stuff later. Witness, did you
Speaker 6: want to talk to Go ahead?
Speaker 3: Just want to make sure it. Jay's here to discuss
Speaker 3: and debate with Catholics the difference Bee, they worth took Catholic.
Speaker 3: I'm here to help him with Islam, so keep.
Speaker 2: It on his slam.
Speaker 6: Go ahead. I'm mute, Witness. Do you want to U mute? Witness?
Speaker 6: Last chance? I'm mute. We're moving on.
Speaker 29: Yeah, No, I was just wanting to understand what gentleman
Speaker 29: was saying as far as Islam goes, like, what his
Speaker 29: position was.
Speaker 3: The Muslim the guy that came up right now a
Speaker 3: couple minutes ago. Yeah, okay. He was trying to say,
Speaker 3: there are hadiths, hadith are narrations attributed Mohammed. That's Momma
Speaker 3: said that Torah has corrupted. It's not uncorrupt, and he
Speaker 3: quoted a haditha actually backfired because the haditha that he
Speaker 3: cited he said that the children of Israel wrote a
Speaker 3: book and abandoned the Torah. Notice he didn't say they
Speaker 3: corupted a Torah. They replaced the Torah and followed a
Speaker 3: book that they wrote. In his mind, that means the
Speaker 3: Torah has been corrupted. That was his argument right from
Speaker 3: from minunderstanding. I have no religious.
Speaker 29: I practiced and study all religious I practiced is I
Speaker 29: believe Prophet Mohammad pieces on him, said that.
Speaker 3: It's the grammar that was.
Speaker 2: Torah is.
Speaker 3: Not listening. You said, you don't you practice origins. Then
Speaker 3: he said, Prophet Muhammad saladdressing me upon him, why are
Speaker 3: you praying for him?
Speaker 2: Are you there?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Because you said can you talk to soul religions?
Speaker 3: But you said, Prophet Mohammed Salary, you can keep interrupting
Speaker 3: me because I don't because you just like you just
Speaker 3: pray for Mohammed. So you're a Muslim, right, I pray
Speaker 3: for everybody. So Mohammad fulfilled God. Are you Christian or
Speaker 3: are you Jewish? What are you?
Speaker 29: Because Mohammad, prophet Muhammad, was the only human beings that
Speaker 29: actually fulfill the Covenant that's in the Torah.
Speaker 6: Okay, well, that's ignorance of the Torah to it has
Speaker 6: been corrupt. Where's the proof of that. Where's the proof
Speaker 6: of that? Where's your proof of that? Where's your proof
Speaker 6: of that? Where's your proof of it? Saying it's true
Speaker 6: is not argument? Where's your proof of that?
Speaker 3: Okay? So you follow Prophet Mohammad, Salad dressing be upon him.
Speaker 3: You follow Mohammads you know I'm not going to follow him.
Speaker 6: You said, he said, yes.
Speaker 3: Said Abraham.
Speaker 29: Abraham's religion is come from to the DoD dodgeball.
Speaker 3: Player, stop dodging. Do you follow Mohammed?
Speaker 22: Yes or no?
Speaker 3: Problem? Then your prophets said the Bible is uncrupt. You
Speaker 3: said it's been changed. So that means you said, Momma
Speaker 3: is a liar and he's in the pitovel. So make
Speaker 3: up your mind.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not saying that.
Speaker 3: I'm saying that to Torah and all the Christian Bibles.
Speaker 3: They've had definitely, especially going back to the Torah.
Speaker 2: Are.
Speaker 3: Does the does the Koran say that it's all corrupted?
Speaker 6: Where's your argument for that prefix? So you're just shouting,
Speaker 6: no argument, no idea.
Speaker 3: What they're uttering is actually.
Speaker 2: Quantum physics.
Speaker 6: Quantum physics.
Speaker 3: If you're going to be the person, this is a
Speaker 3: world prophet.
Speaker 6: This, This guy's insane. He's talking about quantum physics. We're
Speaker 6: moving on. Did you want to say something again? Muslim
Speaker 6: in your back? What's up?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Your hot deth the hard death guy's back, what's up?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm you Yeah. Address even Thames saying you're a.
Speaker 6: Liar because you don't let him reply. That's why you
Speaker 6: just yap and you try to just read the hadith
Speaker 6: NonStop in the Koran. We want to we want your
Speaker 6: replies to the arguments.
Speaker 3: Yep, the argument. Even Thilliams said that a group of
Speaker 3: scholars accepted sound and use it as proof that the
Speaker 3: tour has not changed. So give me another argument that
Speaker 3: the tour has changed. I did have a yeah, let me.
Speaker 6: Okay, No, we gonna understand what you're saying. Man, Prince,
Speaker 6: what's up? I'm you.
Speaker 2: Hi?
Speaker 3: This is Princess Hannah, daughter of the Chosen People.
Speaker 6: Okay, you have you have an argument or listen. The
Speaker 6: topics are Islam. You're not Muslim, right, I'm not Muslim?
Speaker 6: But okay, well the argument is about Islam, not Jewish
Speaker 6: suss Keith, what's up, Keith?
Speaker 3: I don't know. That sounds like the must.
Speaker 6: All right, all right, he can't connect. We'll try somebody else. Seth,
Speaker 6: what's up? We're not looking for uh uh Lutherans, so
Speaker 6: I'm not trying to be rude to you, Seth, but
Speaker 6: it's not Lutheran hour. Uh email, what's up? Email? Go ahead? Email?
Speaker 3: All right, come bye, guys, Come on, Muslims.
Speaker 6: They can't. They're having a hard time connectings. So I'm
Speaker 6: gonna I'm moving on. Let's see. I don't know. Sometimes
Speaker 6: if they're on cell phone, it's just hard for them
Speaker 6: to connect to Twitter space. What's up?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 6: Go ahead, I'm mute. Gott I'm mute, man, Seth, I'm mute.
Speaker 3: That isn't that doesn't even sound like I'm a But anyway,
Speaker 3: most of them are come on, are you?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Is it Twitter aracking up because of the Trump or something?
Speaker 6: It could be Yeah, it could be that. Johnny do
Speaker 6: you want to try again? What's up?
Speaker 3: Oah?
Speaker 2: Hello?
Speaker 30: Oh, I wanted to ask as well about I was
Speaker 30: watching a video on sam where he was talking about
Speaker 30: the muta muta.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted to ask if.
Speaker 26: They're like evidence of that, like yes, it didn't lead
Speaker 26: to like more conquests against Christians nations.
Speaker 3: Mutah, this is the problem. You're going to have. The
Speaker 3: largest branch of Islam are Sunni Muslims, and in Sunni
Speaker 3: Islamic tradition, that's let me explain what zoji mutah is
Speaker 3: for people don't know. It's pleasure marriages. Let me explain
Speaker 3: for everyone, because you have an idea, but many people
Speaker 3: don't know what it is. In the Sunni tradition and
Speaker 3: the shi On tradition, they both agree. They both agree
Speaker 3: on this. The Muhammad allowed his jihadis because they're at war,
Speaker 3: and I got to keep it because I got to
Speaker 3: be careful what I say on YouTube. Man, Lord haveing channel.
Speaker 3: So yeah, they couldn't control their passions. They wanted to
Speaker 3: be intimate, but their wives weren't there. So Muhammad said,
Speaker 3: go find you a woman. Go find you a woman,
Speaker 3: marry her for up to three days, and then you
Speaker 3: can divorce her and pay her for her services. Sunni
Speaker 3: Muslims admit Muhammad did this, they say, but then it
Speaker 3: was abrogated, canceled out, so that Muhammad abrogated it, and
Speaker 3: Sunni Wilslim say, you can't do that anymore. The Shia
Speaker 3: say no, it was never abrogated because they don't follow
Speaker 3: the Sunny tradition. They have their own traditions. So as
Speaker 3: you and I speak today, there are Shia Muslim I
Speaker 3: have a clip actually on my YouTube channel, three young
Speaker 3: Shia men admitting that this form of marriage, which is
Speaker 3: not marriage. You tell a woman, hey, I want to
Speaker 3: marry you for three days. When I'm done, I'll pay
Speaker 3: you for your services. We don't call that marriage dewey,
Speaker 3: we call it something else. You can you can find
Speaker 3: plenty of them in Las Vegas. Right coming to the issue.
Speaker 25: The Shia say no, it's still part of Islam, and.
Speaker 3: They go around. I actually know this for a fact.
Speaker 3: They will try to find a woman I had. She
Speaker 3: had tell me this on palatalk years ago, that he
Speaker 3: had met some woman and he was in the UK,
Speaker 3: that it read to this form of marriage. He goes,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go do mutah marriage so she al Muslims
Speaker 3: do it. The sonny say, no, it's forbidden, but the
Speaker 3: sonny have a different form of the same thing called monia.
Speaker 3: But yeah, So to answer your question, Muhammad allowed it
Speaker 3: at the beginning, but then the sonny say he canceled
Speaker 3: it in his lifetime. Did she all say, you never canceled?
Speaker 26: So, because I also was very safe a lot of
Speaker 26: the like morality of Islam, I feel like I started
Speaker 26: to look into it once, like my friends started converting
Speaker 26: to it because in my city, I'm from Baltimore, it's
Speaker 26: a lot.
Speaker 3: Of people converting to Islam against Baltimore.
Speaker 26: And Philly, and they would telling me like, it's so
Speaker 26: morally sound, and I'm starting to see it's really.
Speaker 2: Not at all.
Speaker 26: When I my friend he went to Gail and he
Speaker 26: told me a lot of people was converting to Islam
Speaker 26: just for protection because they were very like even vicious
Speaker 26: in there.
Speaker 3: And I was even saying, like some of the morality
Speaker 3: uh uh mesh as well with.
Speaker 26: Like criminality, like people who are already criminals, they don't
Speaker 26: have to change.
Speaker 3: You can extort Christians and Jews to their knowledge.
Speaker 26: I do like and I wanted to see like with
Speaker 26: like the Jiza tags and the Demi text.
Speaker 3: If Jay doesn't mind, I'll answer your question. I'll do
Speaker 3: so much tomorrow, God willing, because people want me to
Speaker 3: explain what's happening in the UK Chapter nine twenty nine
Speaker 3: of the Crime. According to the Muslim sources, one of
Speaker 3: the last chapters of not the last chapter that Muhammad composed,
Speaker 3: is chapter nine called the Tobadah Chapter of Repentance champion
Speaker 3: chapter of Annulman, where Mohammad told the Pagans, any covenants
Speaker 3: we have, I will terminate, or with those who didn't
Speaker 3: war against them, I will allow the covenants between us
Speaker 3: to remain intact until the stipulated period. But afterwards, you idolators,
Speaker 3: you'll either convert to Slam or be killed. Now that's
Speaker 3: the pagan idolators. But then he targeted a second group.
Speaker 3: The second group called people of the book. The Arabic
Speaker 3: terms Ahl kitab people of the book means Jews and
Speaker 3: Christians because the recognizes Jews and Christians were given scripture
Speaker 3: from a law Supanawakaada. They think Allah is the god
Speaker 3: of the Bible anyway, So with them, with them, they
Speaker 3: have three options. Chapter nine, verse twenty nine says this.
Speaker 3: This is exactly the context. Now Muhammad has masked a
Speaker 3: large military force. He has enough manpower. He has enough
Speaker 3: military might to now spread Aslam offensively. Offensive Yeah, meaning
Speaker 3: goal and take over lands of people who will never
Speaker 3: threaten Muslims.
Speaker 6: With sam which vers did you say, I've got the Koran?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Man, needlass And I'm going to break this down
Speaker 3: as you saying it too. Yeah. I'll just quote it
Speaker 3: from memory because I can't, Man, I need glasses. Brother. Eventually, anyway,
Speaker 3: ninety twenty nine says, fight those who believe not in
Speaker 3: a law nor the last day. Now, let's break it
Speaker 3: down for you. Fight those who believe not in law
Speaker 3: or nor the last day. Meaning if you don't believe
Speaker 3: a law of Islam is God, nor do you believe
Speaker 3: in the last day as prescribed by Islam, then Muslims
Speaker 3: are to fight you. It says, fight those who believe
Speaker 3: not in a law nor the last day, nor prohibit
Speaker 3: forbid what all in his messenger have prohibited, nor follow
Speaker 3: the religion of truth, even if they're from the people
Speaker 3: of the book, until they pay the Jesi and feel
Speaker 3: themselves subdued. That word subdued means humiliated, disgrace, degraded, debased.
Speaker 3: Now notice the reasons why Muslims are to fight people.
Speaker 3: If I tell you, do you forget what Muhammad forbids like,
Speaker 3: for example, do you refrain from eating swine? No, that's
Speaker 3: grounds to fight you. Wow, this is the yeah that says,
Speaker 3: nor forbid what a Lah or his messenger not, or
Speaker 3: I'm sorry Allah and his messenger have forbidden. Now, notice
Speaker 3: there's a partnership. It's not what Allah has, it's what
Speaker 3: Allah and his messenger have forbidden. Also another reason to
Speaker 3: fight you. If I say, hey, Islam teaches at the
Speaker 3: Last Day. I don't want to believe the one, but
Speaker 3: I wanted to show you how evil this religion is,
Speaker 3: how immoral and grotesque is Islam says, at the Last Day,
Speaker 3: if you're a good Muslim, you good Muslim, you'll enter
Speaker 3: Jenda paradise and you'll be given a pavilion of hoodie's
Speaker 3: alain or are they maidens of pleasure? Wide eyed? And
Speaker 3: the Koran says they have firm breasts Chapter seventy vers
Speaker 3: three through the Koran says that their breasts are firm.
Speaker 26: In other words, no saggy plus and this is verree.
Speaker 3: Chapter seventy eight, verse thirty three. You can read thirty
Speaker 3: one to thirty three, and you will be spending all
Speaker 3: eternity deflowering them all eternity.
Speaker 18: Yeah, yeah, this is it is where did get the
Speaker 18: cause of a virgins?
Speaker 26: They haven't so before they so regular mainstream is slum
Speaker 26: beliefs in it as well.
Speaker 3: Well, it's in the Qur'an. They may so valorize it,
Speaker 3: spiritualize it. But the plane reading is these are maidens
Speaker 3: of pleasure. And by the way, what's interesting the word
Speaker 3: who is where you get your modern English word from?
Speaker 2: I don't know what.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, horry, you get it right. But anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 3: but now here's the thing. Now, if I say to you, hey,
Speaker 3: do you believe in that last day? Do you believe
Speaker 3: that you'll enter paradise with eternal erections deflowering virgins forever
Speaker 3: and ever and they'll go back being virginal again. If
Speaker 3: you say no, that sounds like Playboy mansion on steroids
Speaker 3: or with hormone, then that's wounds to fight you. But
Speaker 3: if you're a Jew or a Christian, you're giving this
Speaker 3: option become Muslim or you pay jiz summation as a
Speaker 3: sign that we've subjugated you, humiliated you, and brought you
Speaker 3: under the hedge of many of Islam. Or we fight
Speaker 3: and to the victor goes as spoils.
Speaker 26: Okay, So with the jizia tags in history, like, is
Speaker 26: there like any like uh? Leaders of Islamic Califfe's day.
Speaker 3: All throughout that's unconducted Muslim.
Speaker 2: Part of it.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, all of them. They told me he was
Speaker 3: the most just. He was known for his chivalry, chivalry,
Speaker 3: lea chivalry or whatever the hell they called it. There
Speaker 3: a bunch of stuff. Brother, Have you ever ran into
Speaker 3: Well you haven't. You have some mob bosses. There are
Speaker 3: some decent human beings. They're loved by the community. They
Speaker 3: feed the the hungry and take care of the homeless.
Speaker 3: But there's still a moai. You have to pay them protection.
Speaker 3: If not, then they'll end up slaughtery right, So you're
Speaker 3: paying them to you from them, right, Yeah, Well that's
Speaker 3: how it is. It's a mafiosa. It's like a gang.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, this my boss was really sweet, all right,
Speaker 3: but he's still a my boss and if you don't,
Speaker 3: he'll kill you.
Speaker 6: Tell you what's up? Did you have a Muslim related issue? Question? Debate.
Speaker 2: Yes, I have a question or.
Speaker 3: Cheology of what's the difference between is I'm a.
Speaker 28: Gunning the Christian goal because our friend, he usually perverted
Speaker 28: to big Wall and me have a conversation.
Speaker 3: Or talk about the debates Christians and debases.
Speaker 19: I yeah, all they argue, well, we both believe in.
Speaker 6: The same I was like, right, well that's not obviously
Speaker 6: not Drew. So the key is here, as Muslims do
Speaker 6: not believe in the Trinity. Muslims don't believe that Allah
Speaker 6: has any sons. Jesus is the son of God. Jesus
Speaker 6: came to make us sons of God. So clearly two
Speaker 6: different gods. Jesus said, God is his father, so that's
Speaker 6: not the God of Islam, who has no sons. So
Speaker 6: that's the key difference. No trinity and no deed of Christ,
Speaker 6: no saving work of Christ, no death or resurrection of Christ.
Speaker 6: It saves you. That's the key difference. Yep, excellent, Parker,
Speaker 6: what's up. We're looking for Muslims who want to It's
Speaker 6: not I'm not mad at that guy for asking question,
Speaker 6: but it's we're looking for Islamic arguments. Parker, what's up?
Speaker 3: But hey, guys, how you doing wonderful.
Speaker 31: Hey, real quick, I wanted to first follow me kind
Speaker 31: of you know, induce myself real quick, huge fan. Been
Speaker 31: following you for a while, but I love that you're,
Speaker 31: you know, out there preaching the truth against uh, this,
Speaker 31: this religion.
Speaker 17: I have a question.
Speaker 31: I've been engaged with Muslims for quite a while here
Speaker 31: now on on spaces, and obviously I'm not as well
Speaker 31: versed in the Quran as as you have been.
Speaker 3: How do you I'm sorry I didn't hear you all
Speaker 3: all the what say it again?
Speaker 31: I said, I'm not as well versed in the Koran
Speaker 31: as as you are, obviously, but I had a question,
Speaker 31: because we get we get this a lot. Is it
Speaker 31: wrong for me to say when a Muslim says, you know, hey,
Speaker 31: we believe in you know, we believe.
Speaker 3: In that Jesus is coming back to judge us.
Speaker 31: Right to my understanding, if a Muslim is trying to
Speaker 31: make friends with someone who is actively committing shook, right,
Speaker 31: like that's the.
Speaker 3: Number one, that's like the most unforgivable sin in Islam.
Speaker 31: Yes, So if they're doing that, does that not make them,
Speaker 31: according to Islam, a bad Muslim?
Speaker 3: That's part number one, Part number Two.
Speaker 19: How far af.
Speaker 3: Fetched is it to call Islam a pagan religion?
Speaker 31: Because I in my beliefs, you know, as a Christian,
Speaker 31: I look at what they practice, I look at what
Speaker 31: they do.
Speaker 3: There's this some rituals they do, you.
Speaker 31: Know, they remind me of kind of what the profits
Speaker 31: of bail were doing in the Old Testament when Ezekiel was,
Speaker 31: you know, calling down fire, they were slicing their heads.
Speaker 6: That's right.
Speaker 31: I'm sorry, Eligi, I'm sorry, I got I got my
Speaker 31: problems to me saying yes, you know, the the uh,
Speaker 31: the paganistic you know, uh rituals that I see in Islam.
Speaker 31: I cannot help, you know, worshiping the rock, the rocket
Speaker 31: that's supposedly gonna forgive them with their sins. Why are
Speaker 31: we not as Christians able to call out Islam as
Speaker 31: a pagan religion?
Speaker 3: And why are we scared to do it?
Speaker 18: And I don't know, I know, I know.
Speaker 2: Oh I know.
Speaker 31: And that's why I love watching your videos, brother, I
Speaker 31: really do appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Again, I'm mute out, but I'll let you take the
Speaker 3: poor I'm sorry if you want to add anything before
Speaker 3: I do, or whatever you want to do.
Speaker 6: I mean, I mean this is I don't have any problem.
Speaker 6: You know, you're the expert subject matter expert here. What
Speaker 6: are they? What are some of the reasons why you
Speaker 6: would call Islam pagan?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, number one, my fundamental problem with Islam
Speaker 3: is the fact that what you said earlier, the God
Speaker 3: of Islam is not the God of the scriptures, not
Speaker 3: the God of the Church, the Trian God. So that's
Speaker 3: the most obvious, glaring contradiction. It claims to be the
Speaker 3: same God that sent the prophets of the Bible, sent
Speaker 3: Jesus and as followers, and it's not so that right
Speaker 3: there is a deal breaker for me. All of the
Speaker 3: kron is not the God of the Hebrew Scriptures, not
Speaker 3: the God of New test Now. I'm actually more consistent
Speaker 3: than some Christians. I actually don't think that the God
Speaker 3: of Rabbinic Judaism is the God of the Bible. I'm
Speaker 3: actually more consistent than some Christians will say that Allah
Speaker 3: is a pagan deity. Whereas the Jews, Rabbinic Jews, I'm
Speaker 3: not talking about the Jews that are not religious who
Speaker 3: don't know any better. Like Tovia's singer, well.
Speaker 25: His God is my God.
Speaker 3: No Tovias singer worships the false God. Rabbinic Judaism is
Speaker 3: a perversion of Gnostisism them you name it combined. Now
Speaker 3: with that said, so that's the number one major fundamental difference.
Speaker 3: Their God is not my God. Secondly, it's not it'steeped
Speaker 3: in paganism. It comes out of paganism. If I go
Speaker 3: with the Muslim sources, and I accept that the Muslim
Speaker 3: sources give me some historical facts regarding the situation of Muhammad,
Speaker 3: because you have revisionists who say, well, the moment of
Speaker 3: later tradition is not the Muhammad of the seventh century
Speaker 3: and that's all forgeries. All right, Well, if you take
Speaker 3: that position, fine, But if I take Muslim sources seriously,
Speaker 3: the Muslim sources admit that the Kaba was the shrine
Speaker 3: for Hubang or Hubble. I don't want to belabor the point.
Speaker 3: I want to be sensitive to your time. So let
Speaker 3: me know when you want to wind in down Hubble
Speaker 3: or Hubog. This isn't the Muslim sources. You'll find in
Speaker 3: Ebneskaki and Sunni Muslims know this. They know I'm not lying. Hubble. Now,
Speaker 3: Hubal was called the Lord of Mecca. He was the
Speaker 3: lord of the Kaba, and the Muslim sources say that
Speaker 3: Muhammad's own family, his tribe, the christ tribe, right his
Speaker 3: own clan, worshiped Hubble and prayed to Hubble or Hubal.
Speaker 3: Hubble was the chief deity. Now we have a problem.
Speaker 3: If anyone knows about anything about paganism, and Jay would know.
Speaker 3: Usually when you have a shrine, a shrine is built
Speaker 3: to one of the gods.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: You can correct me on the j Are you aware
Speaker 3: of any shrine built by Pagans for two gods at
Speaker 3: the same time where that so, Usually a shrine will
Speaker 3: be built for Zeus or Diana, but not both. That
Speaker 3: doesn't mean they didn't honor the other gods. But this shrine,
Speaker 3: this temple is dedicated to Zeuz. Well, the Muslim sources
Speaker 3: say the Kaba was built for Hubble Hubal Hubal was
Speaker 3: a moon deity. This is all from Muslim sources. I'm
Speaker 3: not making I've documented it from Muslim sources as well
Speaker 3: as Islamic scholars.
Speaker 6: Today.
Speaker 3: Hubble was the moon deity because the chief god Hubble
Speaker 3: would have a planet identified with him. This is how
Speaker 3: the Pagans work. Fertility gods and goddesses as well as
Speaker 3: astral worship, and the planets would be associated with one
Speaker 3: of the gods or goddesses. So the moon god was
Speaker 3: considered the male deity. Why sorry, I don't want to
Speaker 3: bore you guys with the details, but I'm going to
Speaker 3: show you where I'm going with this. The word for
Speaker 3: moon in arab is Almara almar is a masculine noun.
Speaker 3: Because they are patriarchal society, the chief god has to
Speaker 3: be a male deity. So the moon was identified with
Speaker 3: Hubal Hubble, that was his planet, his sign, so he
Speaker 3: was the moon god. Now why is that interesting? Because
Speaker 3: the Muslim sources say that the idol of Hubble was
Speaker 3: imported from the Moabites. It was actually imported by an
Speaker 3: Arab name Ahmer Ebin Luei or Luei. He actually went
Speaker 3: to the levant Syria area Jordan, and he picked up
Speaker 3: the idol worshiped by the Moabites, and he brought it
Speaker 3: to Arabia cordium of Muslim sources, and he made Hubble
Speaker 3: the chief god. Now, if anyone knows their history, the
Speaker 3: chief god of the Mobites was Bail Baal. This is
Speaker 3: why many scholars believe the word who Bal is an
Speaker 3: Arab sized bastardization of the word ha baal he Brew.
Speaker 3: The bail or is actually Arabic vet he is bail.
Speaker 3: So Islam is centered in bail worship. Bah al worship.
Speaker 3: It stems from Badalism. It is a form of bail worship.
Speaker 3: And if we read the Bible, one of the names
Speaker 3: of Satan is Belyle. One of his names is Balzibub.
Speaker 3: That's what our word tells us. So it's is centered
Speaker 3: in paganism, and it's centered and bow worship, and ball
Speaker 3: is identified with Lucifer or Satan.
Speaker 31: I never knew that connection. That is it's wild because
Speaker 31: you know, like I said, just kind of what I've seen.
Speaker 31: I made the connection with bail, but I never knew
Speaker 31: that there was that physical connection from these cultures.
Speaker 6: That is shocking.
Speaker 3: And by the way, let me add sort of how
Speaker 3: do we know it's pagan The Muslims will tell you
Speaker 3: that the Pagans would run around the kaba, circumambulate the
Speaker 3: kaba to off counterc clockwise seven times. They admit this.
Speaker 3: They also admit that the Pagans would run between the
Speaker 3: two hills sef On Morua seven times, and they would
Speaker 3: throw seven stones. That this is Muslim sources. Now here's
Speaker 3: what's interesting. As I've documented from Muslim sources, I didn't
Speaker 3: make this up. At that time, the Arabs thought there
Speaker 3: were seven planets, Sun and Moon and five others, and
Speaker 3: each planet represented a deity. So they ran around the
Speaker 3: shrine seven times in honor for each god and goddess.
Speaker 3: That's why they did it seven times. So that's also paganism,
Speaker 3: because the Muslims now have adopted that pagan practice. They
Speaker 3: run around the Kappa seven times, they run between the
Speaker 3: two hills, suffer the mantowas seven times, they throw seven
Speaker 3: stones at But you asked them why, they said, well,
Speaker 3: Ishmael and Abraham were the ones who instituted these rights
Speaker 3: of pilgrimage. There is absolutely no shred of pre Islamic textual, historical,
Speaker 3: archaeological evidence none that Abraham Ishmael ever went to Arabia
Speaker 3: and built a shrine there. But the evidence is clear
Speaker 3: the Pagans did do these things for the seven planetary deities.
Speaker 3: You don't get more pagan than that, especially kissing the Blackstone.
Speaker 6: Now do we have any Muslims that want to call
Speaker 6: it so this is not Christian time, it was not
Speaker 6: Protestant time. Zeke, thank you for that, Sam, Actually I
Speaker 6: didn't know a lot of that.
Speaker 3: I'll send you articles later on Skype.
Speaker 6: What's up, Zeke? I'm mute, Zeke. You want to talk,
Speaker 6: I'm mute. Faithful you want to come up?
Speaker 32: Yeah, yeah, I just I just chimed in on this
Speaker 32: space real quick, and I'm no Muslim scholar, but damn
Speaker 32: you speak one one word of truth in ninety nine bullshit?
Speaker 2: Right, nobody?
Speaker 32: Look, look, look, look, I don't care what little.
Speaker 6: Psy of your Okay, where's it wrong? What's your argument?
Speaker 32: We worship the creator, point blank period, The one who
Speaker 32: made us is who Muslims worship?
Speaker 3: Really call it?
Speaker 2: You want to call it bs and try to go around.
Speaker 32: In circles and do this and say that Muslims worship
Speaker 32: whoever made us?
Speaker 2: How simple?
Speaker 3: Jesus simple?
Speaker 2: Is that argument?
Speaker 3: Okay? Well let me answer you. You want to engage me.
Speaker 3: Jesus made you, so you worship Jesus. We don't believe
Speaker 3: in Jesus is God? No, so then that means my
Speaker 3: God is not your God.
Speaker 32: Well, because you decided to believe that a human being
Speaker 32: is God, let me tell you if the Qur'an never
Speaker 32: showed up.
Speaker 3: If the Qur'an never showed up.
Speaker 33: And said that much more Jesus is not God, then
Speaker 33: maybe we could fall under that and say, hey, you know,
Speaker 33: based on the Bibles, we can't believe that Jesus is God.
Speaker 3: But even though the Bible never.
Speaker 6: Says that, actually, you know it says that in every
Speaker 6: chapter of John, are you where of that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I want to just you want to preach, You
Speaker 3: can preach, but I want to gage you. Now. You said,
Speaker 3: I believe human is God. But according to your prophet,
Speaker 3: your God is a beardless, truly haired youth who wears
Speaker 3: a red garment.
Speaker 2: We don't where where did you find that in the Koran? Oh?
Speaker 25: You want to just go with the Koran, so you
Speaker 25: don't follow tell me in the Koran the Quran. The
Speaker 25: Koran is the text, the Quran is the is the
Speaker 25: word of text.
Speaker 2: Or not?
Speaker 3: Why can't you answer the question?
Speaker 2: Do you follow krown a own or the give give
Speaker 2: me Kuran?
Speaker 25: I told you I'm not a scholar.
Speaker 6: I can't sid It doesn't matter whether your scholar or not.
Speaker 6: What do you follow?
Speaker 25: I want you to tell me in the Kuran?
Speaker 12: Where does God tell you that he has this red
Speaker 12: roban and curly hair and all this nonsense.
Speaker 3: Can I now bury you in your argument, because if
Speaker 3: you want to go with the Koran, how do you
Speaker 3: justify the kron? How do you know the Koran was
Speaker 3: given through Mohammed? Where does the Koran show you that
Speaker 3: the entire one hundred fourteen chapters were sent from a
Speaker 3: law and only one hundred fourteen chapters and they're recited
Speaker 3: by Muhammad? Prove that from the Koran?
Speaker 2: He tells us that in the Koran?
Speaker 3: Where does the kron tell you one hundred fourteen chapters
Speaker 3: make up the Koran and they were transmitted through Muhammed?
Speaker 25: The Quran tells us that that a law spoke and
Speaker 25: he did profitable.
Speaker 6: Where does tell you specifically.
Speaker 3: That Muhammad never spoke? Or at the times you Mohammad
Speaker 3: mentioned in the Koran?
Speaker 2: Not that many times? Actually?
Speaker 3: Okay, so four times apart from those four references, how
Speaker 3: do you know and all the other times where the
Speaker 3: name of Muhammad does not appear?
Speaker 32: You do you do realize that just this Mohammad, You
Speaker 32: do realize that Prophet Muhammad was the one narrating this Koran?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 6: So how do you know what is the justification for that?
Speaker 6: How do you know that?
Speaker 3: Have you, guys even read the Koran? Can you answer
Speaker 3: the question?
Speaker 2: Have you ever read the Koran? Or you just talking?
Speaker 3: Yes? Whenever I go to the toilet, I use the
Speaker 3: Koran and if I run law question, I'll talk.
Speaker 2: For shame on you.
Speaker 6: You can you answer the question?
Speaker 2: Listen to this, Listen to this.
Speaker 3: This is very simple.
Speaker 6: So you can't answer. So you can't answer it. You
Speaker 6: can't ask it.
Speaker 25: I can't answer.
Speaker 6: You can't know that.
Speaker 2: You guys have your mindset on something that you.
Speaker 6: Can't answer, right, So there's no answer exactly. He just
Speaker 6: wants to talk. Go ahead. The next one, we got
Speaker 6: another Musland. What's up? Go ahead? Have you even read
Speaker 6: have you even read Bubin? Have you even read babe?
Speaker 3: Exactly? I don't worry when I whenever I'm bored, I
Speaker 3: go to the toilet and I read the go ahead
Speaker 3: translation of my user as toilet paper. Sorry, Muslims, assume me.
Speaker 2: I know you're upset.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you're up? Go ahead? Oh wife?
Speaker 18: Yeah, guys, how are Yeah?
Speaker 6: What's up?
Speaker 15: Yes?
Speaker 6: Mom?
Speaker 34: I haven't seen anyone that hell more than you, no
Speaker 34: more than Mohammed the.
Speaker 3: Stoley King pagans to me. You know, I don't listen
Speaker 3: to you because you call me ja doesn't know what
Speaker 3: you call me? Job means I'm making right jehead like
Speaker 3: you're probably it wasn't he ignorant? He was a numi right? Yeah,
Speaker 3: you mean doesn't mean hell No, that means he's he's uneducated.
Speaker 3: So today we call people are educated jah hell meaning idrant.
Speaker 3: So the company I'm like today today? Can you get
Speaker 3: today's today?
Speaker 2: The key?
Speaker 3: This man? Why didn't you pray for India? Okay? What's
Speaker 3: your objection? I'm not from India, bro Okay, where are
Speaker 3: you from? I love your Actually pray for India? Okay,
Speaker 3: God Pakistan even better? But was in Pakistan part of
Speaker 3: India and you Muslim stole it like you saw most
Speaker 3: of the lands of the Yeah, you you want to talk.
Speaker 6: You have an argument?
Speaker 3: Yeah? If it isn't the argument like I will present it.
Speaker 32: Yeah, he's homin on from the Okay, what's your argument?
Speaker 3: He's a that hormone against humanity. Get to the point. Okay,
Speaker 3: if you just stop the argument, not protect me. You've
Speaker 3: been making it herman against me hill? Okay, what's your
Speaker 3: if I would make a good hominem. Then I would
Speaker 3: quote you.
Speaker 6: I know you could. We know what's your argument?
Speaker 2: When she took seven is just big?
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're really good argument.
Speaker 3: You might like this, what, Muhamma, do you write the
Speaker 3: pony seven inch poonty? They took the stones from man?
Speaker 3: I like this? You like to write the rony pony?
Speaker 5: Man?
Speaker 2: Why you're like this?
Speaker 3: Jay? Why are you doing it to me?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 6: They took the stones from anyone? Does anyone saying Temple
Speaker 6: of Doom?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're hurting my feelings. I'm about to lose leep tonight.
Speaker 6: Know what's up? They took shivalinga.
Speaker 15: Like this?
Speaker 5: Man?
Speaker 3: You're sure now she blandly?
Speaker 2: You're very weary.
Speaker 3: Don't do my landry.
Speaker 6: T G what's up? Man?
Speaker 3: Hello?
Speaker 14: Yeah, yes, sir, Hello, I'm gonna collect to be in
Speaker 14: your life today. It's some months, like a few months.
Speaker 14: I'm listening to Shams Sam Sam salmons. Okay, yeah, sorry,
Speaker 14: I'm Muslim and the price God. Now it's six years
Speaker 14: and I given baptized by the Church. And because I
Speaker 14: have very hard experiences in Islam, because my father was
Speaker 14: Sunni and my mother was Shere, I have pretty much
Speaker 14: experiences in being lost in Islam and gone to the
Speaker 14: autist and seek for truth and after that finding finding Jesus.
Speaker 14: It's very sweet for me to share with you some
Speaker 14: other contradictions which you didn't mention. Sam as your as
Speaker 14: your as my teachers like to remind notified something fight too,
Speaker 14: can I what was it? Sorry for my bad English,
Speaker 14: but I would like to notify some other contradiction.
Speaker 3: Which let me say that your English is better than
Speaker 3: all Arabic.
Speaker 14: So thank you very much for the first you you
Speaker 14: told the guys before me, which Allah is not our God. Yes,
Speaker 14: as you told yes about our God. And I made
Speaker 14: a post about that which in the Old Testament and
Speaker 14: New Testament, God rebins himself and names himself to Moses, Moses,
Speaker 14: Abraham and other people who ask who are asking their
Speaker 14: name as Yahua. And as we know, God is not
Speaker 14: affected by time. And from here he was able to
Speaker 14: tell them, my name is Yahoa, but you shall.
Speaker 3: Call my name as Alah.
Speaker 14: So yeah, if our God was all Llah, so he
Speaker 14: would tell this to other people in before in past
Speaker 14: in Old Testament, my name is Yahoa, but you shall
Speaker 14: call my name as Allah or something else. But he
Speaker 14: specifically told them my name is yohoa, and you shall
Speaker 14: call my name forever and ever by this name. So
Speaker 14: this is a sign which you can.
Speaker 3: I give you some pushbacks so you use better arguments
Speaker 3: because I know how they're going to respond.
Speaker 2: I am not arguing you.
Speaker 3: I know I'm trying to help you. Your argument is
Speaker 3: not to help you, try to help you. You're young.
Speaker 3: I know you think these are good arguments. But because
Speaker 3: I've dealt the Muslims, I know how they're going to respond.
Speaker 3: So the word yahoa, that's in the Hebrew Old Testament.
Speaker 6: Right, go ahead. I muted him.
Speaker 3: I muted his go ahead, yeah, yeah, So that's in
Speaker 3: the Hebrew Testament because I'm trying to let you know
Speaker 3: how they're going to respond, so you can be like
Speaker 3: a chess player several moves in advance ahead of them.
Speaker 3: So the word yeahoa is in the Hebrewal Testament.
Speaker 6: Right, I muted at him. Go ahead, you there, Sam,
Speaker 6: you can go ahead. I muted that guy because he
Speaker 6: was kept talking.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I didn't know. I thought you said you.
Speaker 6: Unmuted him, So no, no, I'm muted at him so
Speaker 6: you could talk because he kept talking.
Speaker 3: Okay, here's the point for everyone. Yes, we know that
Speaker 3: in the Old Testament, the name that God gave is
Speaker 3: what they call the tetragrammaton. Some pronounce it yeahweah yeahaa.
Speaker 3: The only problem is the sharp Muslim will tell you, well,
Speaker 3: in the New Testament, Greek New Testament, because this is
Speaker 3: run brought up against me and other Christians, will say,
Speaker 3: when the Greek New Testament cites passages that have the
Speaker 3: divine name, they'll use the word katie us Greek for Lord.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: Now, in the Orthodox Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the
Speaker 3: official Old Testament, and Jay knows this better than me,
Speaker 3: is the septigen translation of the seventy the Greek translation
Speaker 3: of the Old Testament. Well, in the Greek translation of
Speaker 3: the Old Testament, you don't find a form of the
Speaker 3: divine name. In the Greek. It's gid use the word
Speaker 3: well like they're asked me in way Kutias kutiss All right,
Speaker 3: Gidi use Lord, meaning that a sharp Muslim if he's sharp,
Speaker 3: which you're rarely find sharp Muslims. Shabali is sharp. I
Speaker 3: got to give them credit because he studies liberal critical
Speaker 3: scholarship so well. In the New Testament, they use the
Speaker 3: word Lord in place of yahweh Gidi use in place
Speaker 3: of yahweh. Well, in Arabic kron it uses it up
Speaker 3: the Arabic word for lord in place of yahwei. So
Speaker 3: this is how they're going to catch you. So I
Speaker 3: know people think this is a good argument. I'm not
Speaker 3: saying it's bad. But you're gonna have to finesse it, fine,
Speaker 3: tune it to be prepared for that objection. You don't
Speaker 3: want to embarrass yourselves. You want to give the best
Speaker 3: arguments possible. So I muslimill tell you if you are
Speaker 3: okay with the Greek New Testament using the Greek word
Speaker 3: lord as a synonym substitute for yahweh, can you use
Speaker 3: meaning lord? Then that's what Allah does in the Crown.
Speaker 3: He uses it all Lord for Yahweh. Bad argument, but
Speaker 3: nonetheless you got to be prepared for that. That's all
Speaker 3: I wanted to say.
Speaker 6: Thank you. Let's say next up, do you have any
Speaker 6: more Muslims? I don't see many muslim looking. Let me
Speaker 6: see here. Let's see this guy two witness? What's up?
Speaker 6: Sounds like a total witness?
Speaker 2: Hello?
Speaker 6: Yeah, hi j what's up you me? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Awesome? So my name is Andrew Samuel Posemon.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to make the funerals.
Speaker 10: First of all, one of your speakers talked about the
Speaker 10: fact that why we call Jesus as moon if you
Speaker 10: read geness is one, verse sixteen, or if you read
Speaker 10: Matthew four, verse sixteen, or Isaiah nine, I.
Speaker 3: Think verse four.
Speaker 34: Uh, that you can see that we are talking about
Speaker 34: our lovely look is lamp. Lamp as the only light
Speaker 34: that rules over the darkness.
Speaker 10: Of the earth or the Abbees or Apron or Bagua
Speaker 10: or Malcot.
Speaker 3: And that's why, in fust for this.
Speaker 6: I can't understand what you're saying. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess he's a Persian who's maybe a convert,
Speaker 3: but yeah, he said that we call Jesus more. Does
Speaker 3: anyone call Jesus that means sly?
Speaker 6: What's up?
Speaker 4: Hey, guys, I just wanted to look him forth and
Speaker 4: helping Christians in general just push forward and be able
Speaker 4: to tools to combat because I've had trouble in the
Speaker 4: past with Muslims.
Speaker 3: Strength express my path and you know, watching you and
Speaker 3: learning from you has really helped. So thank you and sorry,
Speaker 3: I'm out of Muslim.
Speaker 6: Too, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Sorry for God.
Speaker 3: Please, So Jay, if you have no muscles. Brother, I'll
Speaker 3: let you get to you. Maybe you want to discuss
Speaker 3: with Protestants and Catholics. I'll let you be.
Speaker 6: I'm probably gonna call it a night. I mean, I
Speaker 6: thank you for coming on. I appreciate it. I've been going.
Speaker 6: We've been going for uh yeah, about three hours, so
Speaker 6: I appreciate that.
Speaker 3: Sam, thank you anytime. Brother, I got you back. When
Speaker 3: it comes to Slim set up that two for two brother.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're just waiting on who they want, all right, brother, brother,
Speaker 6: thank you you too.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 6: Everybody that's Sam Shumun you can call him over on
Speaker 6: Shimunian channel on YouTube. I'll link his channel here in
Speaker 6: a little bit. Let's see we get some super chats.
Speaker 6: I want to remind everybody that we have a show sponsor,
Speaker 6: which is Chalk dot com, c cho q dot com,
Speaker 6: Helward at to chalk dot com. Right now, use go
Speaker 6: to J fifty to get fifty excuse me, J forty
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Speaker 6: Orthodox Sam baptismal regeneration to be immediate? Yes? Why do
Speaker 6: we people struggle after baptism because we are battling the passions.
Speaker 6: Noah M. I bought bitcoin in the recent recent dip.
Speaker 6: Do you think it'll dip again the election? I have
Speaker 6: no idea. I think there's any there's no way to
Speaker 6: predict what's gonna happen with bitcoin. Regive it. Six thirty eight.
Speaker 6: I'm still blocked. I don't remember why or what what
Speaker 6: are you talking about? Blocked on YouTube or Twitter? I'm
Speaker 6: not sure. Thank you, Jay and all the Orthodox friends.
Speaker 6: I recommended that Sam Schumann contact you. Thank you appreciate that.
Speaker 6: Regive itch again. Five dollars. Sam was asking for an
Speaker 6: Orthodox scholar tell them under Sam Philly oquay Orthodox Catholic issues.
Speaker 6: Uh yeah, I'm always open to have that discussion. Also,
Speaker 6: doctor Branton is really good. Play up play at twenty dollars.
Speaker 6: Come on, Jay, we need at least one or two
Speaker 6: yo mama jokes in a debate. I'll have to sit
Speaker 6: and write some good yo mama jokes. Farrella. The second,
Speaker 6: five dollars, Thank you so much, hut. Five dollars. Here's
Speaker 6: a cup of coffee for a Sam cool. Thank you,
Speaker 6: Verrel the second, there's a missing talk on your Yeah,
Speaker 6: I move I removed that talk for various reasons, but
Speaker 6: thank you for that super chat. A cup of coffee
Speaker 6: twenty dollars. Thank you, Jay, I appreciate your work. I
Speaker 6: found orthodoxy through three or four years ago through you.
Speaker 6: Collab with Sam is great. Yeah, he's always welcome to
Speaker 6: hop on. He drops the knowledge bombs. You should team
Speaker 6: up in the future and make a great duo Dad
Speaker 6: show a ten dollars. Would you be open to discussing
Speaker 6: and debating with Warren McGrew? He does idle killer. He's
Speaker 6: an open theist. He espouses a lot of EO doctrines. Well,
Speaker 6: I mean it doesn't like you don't get to do
Speaker 6: like half of them. And open theism is a denial
Speaker 6: of divine omissions. So he says that Christ that could
Speaker 6: have sinned. Paul says that it was impossible for God
Speaker 6: to lie. Christ is a divine person, So no, it's
Speaker 6: not possible for Jesus to do evil. You would only
Speaker 6: think that if you didn't think that he was a
Speaker 6: divine person. If you thought that he was if you
Speaker 6: were an Aran or a Nestorian, there was only a
Speaker 6: way you would think that Jesus could sin. Thank you
Speaker 6: guys for all of that. If you want to get
Speaker 6: my books, you can go to my website Jaysnelsons dot
Speaker 6: com and in the shop you can find the text
Speaker 6: signed copies in the shop and yeah fun wild Night.
Speaker 6: Didn't expect Sammy Shaw