Speaker 1: Hello, everyone. I think that many of you at this
point will have seen a video clip going around with
John Heares interviewing Tucker Carlson. It's part of a project
to make a movie called Christianity's and I'm happy to
announce that I will be participating in that project. I'll
also be one of the people being interviewed. But I
was really kind of shocked and surprised to see John
and the team published this one clip of Tucker Carlson
talking about how he was attacked in the night by
a demon and how that attack in some ways woke
him up to spiritual realities in a way that he
had never been before. It's funny because I actually knew
about that story. It had been told to me by
someone about a year and a half ago, maybe close
to when it had happened. Someone had told me the story,
and I didn't think that Tucker would talk about it
in public, But it seems like there it is. There
is talking about it public, and so it's brought up
a lot of questions for people, because especially the way
that I talk about the notion of principalities or the
idea of spirits, and how in fact there is a
cask a chasm between you know, let's say principalities in
the physical world, and that the principalities can't touch the
physical world, you know, just like ideas can't touch the
physical world, or how you know, things that don't have
bodies can't touch the physical world. And the question is
what's going on? How is it possible that he might
wake up in the middle of the night and have
massive claw marks on his body and have this dreadful
sense because you had this nightmare about not being able
to move if I remember correctly, you know, being kind
of frozen there and this pressure on him, you know,
before he woke up to how is this possible? This
is Jonathan Peeshel, Welcome to the symbolic world. You know,
for those of you who haven't watched it, I did
a video a little bit about called the Witches when
that I had recorded in twenty twenty where I talk
about this a little where we talk about what we
call secondary causes and the idea that once you see
the purpose of something or the symbolism something or the
reason for something, you can talk about how they happen
through secondary causes. What that means is that there's no
direct relationship between the mechanical causes that bring about the
phenomena and the ultimate impetus vertical cause you could call,
or the meaning cause that makes it happen. And that
might seem strange to people at the outset, but in
fact it's actually how all phenomena that finds its origin
in meaning making happens. Because any type of thing that
happens in the world which originates in meaning, you can't
trace the relationship between the meaning or the purpose that
is being given, the order or the suggestion or the
question that's being asked, and the mechanical causes that make
it happen. Okay, and so let me give you a
simple example, which is I ask my son to go
get you something in my room. I like, could you
go get this for me in my room? And then
he goes upstairs, goes into my room and finds the
thing brings it to me. And so that's an exact example.
There's absolutely there's absolutely no connection direct mechanical connection between
the meaning making aspect of it and the actions that
he took in the world. You know, him moving his
knees and the blood pulsing through his vein and you know,
getting things out of the way, opening the door of
the room, going in, getting the thing, bringing it down,
and giving it to me. If you only analyze the
mechanical causes of it, you could never find that I
asked him to bring that to me, you know. And
it's the same with any kind of meaning making structure
that manifests itself from the world. So, how, for example,
does passing a law affect the world, Well, it affects
it through secondary causes. And so the person that's passing
the law that creates the constraint on society at the
top of the ladder, you could say, of meaning doesn't
predict like which police officer or which judge will act
on what day, you know, next to this or that phenomena.
They don't have to because those are secondary causes. The
formal cause that the first cause, which is the meaning cause,
doesn't have to take into account the secondary cause elements.
Those secondary cause elements have their own mechanical reality at
the level they do, you know, inspired by the formal cause. Okay,
and so that is how actually all reality works. And
so we have to just remember that as we look
at the more extreme examples, which are the ones that
you see in the case of what Tucker is describing. Now,
in the case of what Tucker is describing, what your note,
what you can see is something like we could call
it a reverse miracle. You know, I've talked about miracle before.
It tried to explain them the best that I could
as the way in which you could call it strong emergence,
you could call it. You could use different words. You
could talk about how there are sometimes even in the
biological world or in the physical world, where there's absolutely
no way of accounting between the two, like there's there
seems to be a complete disjunct between the the the
you can't even trace the line. So like in the
case of, for example, me telling my son to go
get my shoes, let's say at the entrance of the door,
you can you can still kind of trace the idea
of the original cause or the meaning making cause, the
formal cause, and then you know, you can kind of
see how there's how can I say this that the
actions are at least aimed at that cause through other
meaning making structures, Right, So you have in order for
that to happen, like in a city or the way
that I talk to my son, you need other meaning
making beings to be involved that are implementing the order
or the meaning at the higher level. So we pass
a law in the town, and then we need people
to hear or to read the law, and then those
people to then act according to the law and enact
it at the level where they are. And so there
is this sense that there's a kind of meaning making
meaning making agents that are there all along the way
of the causality chain, you could call it. But in
the case of miracles, you absolutely cannot account or you
don't have a way of accounting for the relationship between
the meaning making and the effect that it has in
the world. Now, this is something that happens more than
you think, right, because we don't think that it functions
that way only when we think that meaning making agents
are completely separate from all other types of causalities, that
there's absolutely no relationship between the meaning making agents and
other types of causes. But when you realize that these
are all integrated together, and that in fact, meaning is
part of the universe and meaning meaning meaning making agents
are types of causes in some ways the most important
types of causes that bring about reality. You can notice that,
for example, there are many many example of scientists that
dream of something, that have a dream of a type
of causality, and then down the line that thing is
found to be true, or that they think it up
in their mind and they kind of have a vision
of something of something that can happen, and then it happens.
It's shown to be true in the future, even though
they don't have the mathematical proofs, they don't have the
empirical you know, proofs, They just have this kind of
intuition that this is true. And then then then later
we discovered that it is in fact, in fact true.
And so in miracles, this is what you're always seeing,
is that in some ways there seems to be a
direct relationship or at least there's no at all accounting
for the way that the causes happen in any way,
Like you can't even trace it through meaning making agents
at how something happens based on meaning making. And you know,
you you know, if you read the stories of the miracles,
they're always a reflection of a higher order meaning. Right,
It's like you're seeing a higher order meaning imprint itself
onto reality and order reality directly or seemingly directly, and
it doesn't mean that how can I say this? It
doesn't mean that the idea or the purpose or or whatever.
How can I say this? It doesn't mean that the
idea or the purpose or whatever has a way to
touch physically the mechanical things, just in the same way
that me telling my son to go get something isn't
like me physically bringing him to do it. But nonetheless,
this is what miracles manifest, and they manifested, like I said,
in a way that points to higher forms of order.
You know. Now, The thing is is that it doesn't
mean that there aren't mechanical causes. That means it is
that even if there's a miracle, it doesn't mean that
you couldn't at the at the you know, at the outset,
look at what is happening at the mechanical level. You could,
You probably could, And sometimes sometimes the desire for people
to do that has sometimes led to them invalidating things which,
in my estimations, are really miracles, you know, because the
mechanical causes don't seem to function the way they do.
I'll give you an example that I saw a while ago,
you know. It was that there was a Catholic church
in which the statue of the virgin Mary started to
cry and and so drops of red liquid when we're
appearing on her cheeks and we're kind of strolling, you know,
streaming down her face. And people were saying, she's crying blood.
An it's crazy because imagine you're standing there and you're
you're in at church and you're praying, and you look
up and there's a statue of Mary, and then all
of a sudden, there are like tears, red tears that
are streaming down her face. And so and I remember
that I read an article that was debunking this because
they said, well, they looked into it and they analyze it,
and it realized that there was a hole in the
roof exactly in the right spot above you know, the statue,
and that that there was rusty water in that hole,
and then that rusty water fell exactly right next to
her eye and then would come down as a tear drop,
you know, on her face. And therefore that's not a miracle.
And you're like, do you know what, maybe you don't
know what a miracle is, you know, maybe you don't
understand how a miracle are. These are exactly like that.
It's not that there isn't any mechanical causes that those
mechanical causes come together to reveal meaning, you know, that
can't be accounted for in those mechanical causes. And so
I would say that something like that that actually is
a miracle right in the sense that there it is,
you stand in front of the virgin and she's crying,
and there's nobody trying to trick you, Like, there's no
one who is doing it out of malicious intent and
is like putting drops there in order to to to
manipulate you or to get money from you, or to
do something that is off. It's actually just happening in
front of you, and you have a you have a
statue of the virgin that's crying. Now, is it possible
that you could have let's say, mechanical causes that would
be even more or even less directly you know, collated
to the meaning that's even possible. You know, there are
all kinds of events that happen in our lives and
stories that we hear from people that we love and
care about that seem to manifest, you know, this type
of thing. And so this seems to be that, you know,
in the case of what Tucker is explaining, you know,
the question is what happened to him. Let's look at
it at the moment, most basic element. Right, So, he
had a very horrible dream in which he felt a
deep spiritual oppression and felt way down and held down,
and that he couldn't move and that he couldn't do anything.
And then when he finally woke up, he had huge
claw marks on his body and everybody else was fast asleep.
It's like, does that mean something? And the answer is yes,
it means something, And in his case, it meant a lot.
It meant that it connected him to a world of
principality that could affect him, make him feel a certain way,
that could make him suffer in a certain manner, and
that it not only that, but being in contact with
that transformed his perspective and made him start to believe
in God, for example, or start to read the Bible
and a move in that direction. Now, once again, does
it mean that there are no mechanical causes? I mean,
you know, you could say, well, you know, you're sleeping
with his dogs in his bed. Maybe that's the origin
of it. Maybe maybe not. I don't know. There probably
are mechanical causes that brought about the scratch marks that
are on his body or the claw marks that are
on his body. But the idea is, just like when
can I say that, Just like when I ask my
son to go get things for me, I am not
preoccupied by what shoes he's wearing, or like you know,
or I'm not preoccupied by I don't know what obstacle
he'll have to move in order to get the thing
that I'm asking him to get at the time, you know,
and when he comes back, I'm not curious that curious
about all the secondary causes, you know, and how many
neurons fired in his brain, and how many muscles moved
in his body, and you know, how what quantity of
blood left his heart and went into his arteries in
the time that he was getting that thing for me.
All those are mechanical causes for him to be able
to do that. But I'm not that preoccupied, uh, you know,
by the mechanical causes, because what interests me is the meaning.
What interests me is the way in which a phenomena
came together, you know, because if if if Tucker had
only let's say, if Tucker Carlsond only woken up with
scratch marks on his body, would he have had the
same experience? And the answer is no. If he had
woken up after that sense of like oppression and pressure
on his chest and and and and uh, that's a
just the pressure on his chest, would he have had
the same experience. No. If it had just had been
a bad dream where he's dreaming and and he feels
like something is attacking him for something, and he would
have woken up, he would he have felt the same thing,
And the answer is no. Now, it's all of those
coming together, you know, that made the event, let's say,
a curse, or made the event a reverse miracle, or
a dark moment, a moment where he encountered principality that
was trying to hurt him, you know. And so therefore
that is a way to kind of understand, you know,
how it is that events like that can happen, and
how they they're real and they are a way in
which wills are purposes, can touch us and can affect us,
even though we don't know how to account for all
the mechanical causes that made it happen in reality. But that,
like I said, it's important to remind us of that's
how all meaning making causality functions, all causes that are
produced by meaning have that same problem. It's just that
some you could say, are more stretched than others, you know,
and some are that's say, less difficult to believe in
or less difficult to see through the meaning making causes
how something like that could have happened, And so, yeah,
I think it's important to kind of understand that. That
is in some ways you could say how also how
blessings and curses function, you know, And so blessing and
curses can and do affect other people, and sometimes you
can trace, you could trace more easily the meaning making
causalities in order to understand that. Right, So think about
it again in a way that it's closer to the
idea of the of a placebo effect, for example, right
where you could understand that a placebo effect could help
you understand how a blessing could affect someone because you know,
the doctor has authority, and the doctor tells the patient,
I'm going to give you this thing that's going to
heal you. And even though they give them a sugar pill,
the person experiences a healing, and so you can see
that this is a kind of blessing. Right, it's not
exactly a blessing, but it can at least help you
understand how blessing functions, which is that it is possible
to affect someone's well being through meaning making by encouraging them,
by by you know, let's say, using your authority in
order to change their physical even their physical state, you know.
And so the question is, can you do that also negatively?
And the answer is, of course you can. Of course
you can do that negatively. You know. Of course you
can look at someone in a way that can make
them sick if you know what you're doing. You can
say things to someone that will make them physically ill, right,
that would make them lose their confidence, that will make
them trip, they'll make them fall, you know. And it's
not like a just like all meaning making causalities, it's
not direct, right, If I throw a baseball at a
certain strength and a certain direction, you can predict how
it's going to fall. But if I ask my son
to go get to go get my shoes, for example,
you know, then he might decide that he changes his
mind on the way there. He might you know, he
might get distracted by something else. It might not happen.
And that's the problem with all types of causalities that
happen to meaning like you could pass a law and
it doesn't mean that everybody's going to follow the law.
There are all kinds of things that can happen that
would prevent it from happening. But it's also ridiculous to
say that those types of causalities don't exist. Of course
they exist because we see them experience them all the time.
It's just that they don't have the same kind of
mechanical predictability as like I said, just measuring the arc
of a projectile, for example. But we can't discount them
because they're part of the world and we use them
all the time. And so can you curse someone and
that this will affect them, and that this would make
them have bad dreams, or that it would make them
have all kinds of bad effects on them. Of course
that's possible. Now the question is how much is it possible,
Like how far can that go? You know? And how
many like layers of secondary meanings could you go through
in order to do good to someone or to harm them,
you know? For example, like can I make you sick
by saying bad things about about cursing you through others, like,
could I do that? Could I say bad things about
you to other people to make you, to put you
in trouble? And the answers, of course, you know that
that's true, you know, and you can do it positively too.
Can I bless you by going around and let's say,
blessing you through others? And the answer is, of course
I can. Now what's the extent to which that's possible.
That's a harder one to delimit, right, It's a harder
one to know how far it goes. But when you
see something like that, like when you see someone like Tucker,
who is a very honest person who he he's constantly
telling the truth, and this happened to him like a
year and a half ago, and he finally said it
to someone. You know, he's been keeping this private for
a very long time. Is it possible that he was
being attacked by someone or by the principality directly? And
the answer is, I think it is possible. You know. Now,
I kind of hesitate to talk about this kind of stuff,
as you can tell. It's the first time that I
actually talk about this directly, because because just because something
is possible doesn't mean it's happening all the time. And
this is again one of the issues with meaning making
causalities is that sometimes it's bullshit. Sometimes people who say
they have influence or think they have influence are lying
to you and they don't have what it takes to
make it happen. And sometimes people say that things have
happened to them that aren't true. And that's what makes
it difficult, is that there is such a thing as
someone who is becomes paranoid and sees demons attacking them
all the time and sees you know, all people that
want ill of them, cursing them or sending things to them,
or you know, like, there are people that are delusional,
and that is completely possible. But just because people are
delusional doesn't mean that it can't happen. It's the same
with miracles, by the way. You know, people will tell
you that miracles don't exist by pointing to people who
lied about miracles, and it's like the fact that people
lie about miracles doesn't mean the miracles don't exist. That's
a ridiculous that's a ridiculous thing, you know, you know,
just like fraudulent you know, vaccines doesn't mean that, oh,
they're therefore all vaccines are impossible, or that you know,
fraudulent medicines or people who lie about certain certain effects
that certain medicines would have, doesn't mean that then medicine
is invalid. And it's the same with these types of events.
It's the same with things that are caused by meaning.
They are all kinds of delusions and illusions and people
pretending and lying. All of this exists, but you know,
there are moments when these things also happen for real.
And so I know that I might be pushing the
more kind of secular types, maybe beyond beyond my reach,
and I might get criticism that I haven't gotten yet before,
because I am trying to suggest that meaning really does
it really does cause reality, and some people can do
it in ways that it's difficult to account for how
it is that the connection between the meaning and the
event is. But I also believe that to be true.
I also believe that these things are possible, and you know,
and I've seen it happen, and we don't see these
things happen as much here, but there are certain places
in the world where these types of actions are still
very much available. To people, and people engage in them
all the time and others actually feel the consequences of that.
So anyways, hope this was helpful. It's kind of like
a post Halloween maybe a post a video. Hope it
was helpful to kind of help you understand a little
bit of how it is that these things are possible
or maybe not. At least it will get you to
start thinking about it. And so thanks everyone for your time,
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