Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What what's going to happen?
Speaker 1: I'll think what a Welcome to the Occult Rejects. Tonight
Speaker 1: we are talking tichi luck, superstition, cairos and how it
Speaker 1: affects you and how integrated it is in your society
Speaker 1: and you just don't even know it. Tonight we got
Speaker 1: Nick that they called reflex and ethan indigo. Guys, why
Speaker 1: don't you introduce yourselves and talk about what you're thinking about?
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you Nick from the Occult Rejects. I was
Speaker 2: very happy that you hit you with this topic because
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about it, So again I appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Let me jump on and learn something with you there, buddy.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Absolutely tell them where they can find you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, fascinating topic. This is going to be fun. I'm
Speaker 4: looking forward to what I have this has got to say.
Speaker 4: And I'm a writer, and you know frequent the Cole
Speaker 4: Rejects and had this podcasts as well. And I have
Speaker 4: got some writing about sacred geometry and so forth. Several
Speaker 4: articles on a col reject site.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right. Let me let me plug that
Speaker 2: real quick. A cult research Institute dot org. Yes, got
Speaker 2: a bunch of stuff over there, Yeah, what's some thank you?
Speaker 4: And several other people.
Speaker 1: Well, I hope this is the boat that launches one
Speaker 1: hundred more ships in this direction. Because Taiki is one
Speaker 1: of the fundamental principles of Greek religion and Roman religion
Speaker 1: that has really gotten the translation into English. Yet despite
Speaker 1: the fact that we constantly use their symbols, we constantly
Speaker 1: use their themes, we constantly have these things sitting in
Speaker 1: the background without acknowledgment and understanding that is going to
Speaker 1: make you understand this topic a lot more.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 1: There's this great Latin poem about fortune and how fickle
Speaker 1: it is, and the Greeks understood Taiki or Tiki to
Speaker 1: be this goddess that was fickle. She was said to
Speaker 1: be blind, and she represents fortune and fate and she's
Speaker 1: the reason why you have the cornucopia, right, So the
Speaker 1: cornucopia is one of her symbols, and everybody uses it for,
Speaker 1: you know, Thanksgiving, and they have no idea what they're posting.
Speaker 1: This is a pagan goddess, that's her symbol, and it's
Speaker 1: transferred perfectly over into Thanksgiving and everybody it's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a corner copy it's the horn of plenty, but
Speaker 1: they don't realize that it comes from this source. So
Speaker 1: to start off with, let's see if we can get
Speaker 1: Karl Orlov's O Fortuna, and there should be an English
Speaker 1: translation on the screen as well, because this was written
Speaker 1: in Latin. You might not know the words, but you've
Speaker 1: definitely heard the song before.
Speaker 3: As to gus so chip and get some contes something
Speaker 3: so infl uchi. So s's has been it's not to.
Speaker 6: Follows sis fons fund of.
Speaker 3: Songs STI so asists not to s people So sad
Speaker 3: pass a uppy talking or something. Seven sepo cons.
Speaker 5: That's that xtap that back happen, go back up, bout.
Speaker 6: Eat one food and so does fall.
Speaker 3: Oh it's it's a foods up. So hope group.
Speaker 6: Up as a blacks pot foot.
Speaker 3: Bob people us I tell me, oh it's sexus en excellent.
Speaker 6: Deep.
Speaker 1: What did you guys think of the lyrics?
Speaker 2: It's pretty interesting. It seems very alchemical to me in
Speaker 2: a sense.
Speaker 1: It really has that feel, especially with Latin, and it
Speaker 1: was just all about the ill turn of fortune. So
Speaker 1: in addition to the cornucopia, another symbol of Tychi is
Speaker 1: the wheel of fortune, She's often associated with Hecita because
Speaker 1: Hecate's wheel is also associated with this wheel of fortune idea.
Speaker 1: So Hecate's wheel is where we get the game show
Speaker 1: Wheel of Fortune from, right, So, uh, Heckuita's wheel looks
Speaker 1: a little bit different than what you normally think of.
Speaker 1: It's got these I believe it's three stars on it,
Speaker 1: and it is supposed to be put between these two strings,
Speaker 1: and you're supposed to pull the strings, so the wheel
Speaker 1: spins and spins and then lands on a fortune. Right,
Speaker 1: it was kind of a fortune telling device back then.
Speaker 1: And this Hecates wheel is, you know, often associated with
Speaker 1: gambling and everything else. Well, Taiki the first dice in Greece,
Speaker 1: we're actually devoted to Taiki so or tiki, you know,
Speaker 1: it's the Greek pronunciation versus how you want to say
Speaker 1: it in English. So all of these symbols that we
Speaker 1: have with luck and fortune telling and all the rest
Speaker 1: of this stuff come directly from the worship of this goddess.
Speaker 1: And tik Taiki is all often seen with Nemesis, and
Speaker 1: Nemesis is the goddess of you know, vengeance also justice.
Speaker 1: So what they were hoping is that Nemesis would govern
Speaker 1: Taichi and not give good things to bad people. So
Speaker 1: you can understand why this would be kind of a
Speaker 1: suppressed goddess, because if you're wishing nemesis on somebody, then
Speaker 1: they're gonna get this bad taichi like in Oh Fortuna,
Speaker 1: which is all about bad luck, and how bad luck
Speaker 1: is this tyrant ruling from this iron throne that you
Speaker 1: can't get out of, and you're just under this oppressive
Speaker 1: force of never having good luck. And in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways, this also goes into the aspect of TIChE
Speaker 1: with her consort, which is Kaitos, and Kaitos is this
Speaker 1: Greek concept of subjective time, right, so kitos would be
Speaker 1: in a sort of opposition or maybe I guess balance
Speaker 1: with the concept of chronos, and chronos would be the
Speaker 1: mechanical times taking away on the clock. You know, you've
Speaker 1: got so many hours left in the day, You've got
Speaker 1: so many hours left in the uh, you know, at work,
Speaker 1: all the rest of these mechanical concepts of time. Kitos
Speaker 1: would be subjective time, right, So this would be the
Speaker 1: quality version of quantitative time. So are you doing what
Speaker 1: you want to do? Are you doing what makes you happy?
Speaker 1: And Kitos is kind of an interesting character. Let me
Speaker 1: see if I can say you link to well, let
Speaker 1: me see. Can I send you a picture or can
Speaker 1: you look up Kaidos on your Google machine? There, Nick,
Speaker 1: I was gonna put it out there. K A I
Speaker 1: R O S. This is a really interesting looking character
Speaker 1: because he's got these really long locks of hair in
Speaker 1: the front, and he's got this razor blade that he's
Speaker 1: holding in his hand that's balancing this scales, right, and
Speaker 1: he's got winged feet like Hermes, and also wings on
Speaker 1: his back. And you can find this really great relief
Speaker 1: of him where he's got wings and it looks like
Speaker 1: he's in motion and he's holding on his fingertip this
Speaker 1: razor blade that's balancing the scales. Now, the reason why
Speaker 1: he's got these really long hairs in the front is
Speaker 1: because this concept of subject of time can only be
Speaker 1: grabbed from the front right. The back of his head
Speaker 1: is bald, so as soon as those moments slip away
Speaker 1: from you, there's no grabbing them. So it's very very
Speaker 1: clear with the symbol means you have to be able
Speaker 1: to plan for this quality time. You have to be
Speaker 1: able to embrace the amount of time that you're spending
Speaker 1: doing the things that you love and you have to
Speaker 1: value it. There you go, Yeah, so that's Chiros right there.
Speaker 1: He's only got the hair in the front. He's got
Speaker 1: these wings and he's balancing the scales on this razor
Speaker 1: thin edge. And this was used in a lot of coins,
Speaker 1: and this was meant to represent the time that you
Speaker 1: have with your family, the time that you have doing
Speaker 1: the things you love. It's obvious why he would be
Speaker 1: so closely associated with luck, because as you're doing the
Speaker 1: things that you love, you then that you are lucky. Right.
Speaker 1: You then feel that Tihi and Tiki and Kaidos are
Speaker 1: so very closely associated in the Greek mind that they were.
Speaker 1: She was the consort of him and he was the
Speaker 1: consort of her, and they always came together. And so
Speaker 1: when you understand this, you can really start to understand
Speaker 1: the pagan perspective on gods and goddesses. Right, These aren't
Speaker 1: things that have to be believed in, These aren't things
Speaker 1: that have to be confessed to. These are things that
Speaker 1: just are. This is the unity of both human consciousness,
Speaker 1: the human soul. Psyche right, Psyche is you know it
Speaker 1: sounds like Tiki because that Tiki would come along with
Speaker 1: the ideas of this Kaidos as well.
Speaker 5: So you have to be.
Speaker 1: Looking towards this character of Kidos so that you can
Speaker 1: catch him by the hair and know that that is
Speaker 1: when you are having a good time. And so once
Speaker 1: once you kind of get into this mode of thinking,
Speaker 1: you can really start to understand why the cornucopia is
Speaker 1: associated with Thanksgiving and these families coming together, because this
Speaker 1: is the time, This is your quality time. This is
Speaker 1: supposed to be where your memories are formed. This is
Speaker 1: supposed to be your your strength and your basis for
Speaker 1: for understanding. So it's not just about gambling. It's also
Speaker 1: about feeling lucky because the luckier you you feel, the
Speaker 1: less it matters whether you win or lose, and the
Speaker 1: more like that fool card you can be. Now again,
Speaker 1: you see a lot of that fool imagery in that Kaidos, right.
Speaker 1: So he's he's dancing on the razor thin edge of
Speaker 1: that cliff, right, and he's he's carrying the pack on
Speaker 1: his back, which kind of looks a lot like that
Speaker 1: that that uh that scale, right, and he's you know,
Speaker 1: he's followed by this dog character, which is kind of
Speaker 1: associated with Hecata right, the dog of Hekata, And you
Speaker 1: can see all of these symbols coming together to show
Speaker 1: you that unless you have that fool like mentality where
Speaker 1: you're just going out there and you're having a good
Speaker 1: time and you don't care about the rest of the
Speaker 1: world's burdens, that's when you you can really embrace that kaidos.
Speaker 1: And so from the most positive aspect of this tiki
Speaker 1: instead of that negative aspect of uh, you know, tiki
Speaker 1: nemorensis or Tiki nemesis, you've really got the understanding of
Speaker 1: what it means to have this quality of life right,
Speaker 1: And I think that's that's what goes into a lot
Speaker 1: of this luck. I don't know about you guys, but
Speaker 1: I've known some pretty stupid people who are pretty stupid
Speaker 1: lucky right, like they just fall into I mean, I
Speaker 1: hate to bring this up, but I knew this guy
Speaker 1: who kept getting scammed by people who would you call
Speaker 1: them up and promise him things, but he always made
Speaker 1: out the winner, even though they were scams. So he
Speaker 1: got a call from this scammer guy who wanted him
Speaker 1: to take these MacBook pros. Right. This was back in
Speaker 1: the day MacBook pros were thousands of dollars and everything else,
Speaker 1: and he was supposed to then send them off to
Speaker 1: this guy. So I'm sure it was like a credit
Speaker 1: card scam where they were using somebody else's credit card
Speaker 1: and then they wanted to funnel this stuff to them
Speaker 1: so they could resell it. And so as soon as
Speaker 1: he got this package full of the MacBooks, the cops
Speaker 1: came to his door and they're like, you've been involved
Speaker 1: in a scam. Do you realize that? And he's like, no,
Speaker 1: I had no idea, and they're like, don't worry about it,
Speaker 1: just keep the MacBooks. So he's involved in the scam,
Speaker 1: and the police him keep all of the ill gotten
Speaker 1: wares because you know, he didn't know what he was doing.
Speaker 1: And so you've got this kind of angle there, like
Speaker 1: he foolishly got involved in a scam. Normally the people
Speaker 1: who do that, you know, have everything taken from him.
Speaker 1: But he was so innocent and like kinda kind of
Speaker 1: dumb that he actually made out the better for being scammed.
Speaker 1: And there's right, right, So if you know like that,
Speaker 1: you should bet on their horses. If they pick a horse,
Speaker 1: bet on that horse, because they're not overthinking it. They're
Speaker 1: more in tune with like the vibrations of the planet
Speaker 1: because there's nothing else going on upstairs. They're just they're just.
Speaker 4: I was when I was looking at the cornucopia relationship,
Speaker 4: I was thinking about a Dallist tale and uh, that
Speaker 4: really kind of of actually has a dynamic where it
Speaker 4: splits between two thieves. It might be called two Thieves
Speaker 4: or something. It's one of these really rich little metaphors
Speaker 4: to learn morality and opportunity, and really it metaphor depicts luck.
Speaker 4: So well, there's the rich man and the poor man
Speaker 4: in this little village, and naturally, of course, the poor
Speaker 4: man observes the rich man, and he sees that he
Speaker 4: has all these people exchanging things with him, and he
Speaker 4: does work, but he doesn't really do that much work,
Speaker 4: and has all these resources and all this wealth, and
Speaker 4: he goes to ask him how can he become rich?
Speaker 4: And the rich man sees him and and he says,
Speaker 4: and he answers him he has the question and he
Speaker 4: and the rich man laughs and he says, I'll tell
Speaker 4: you a secret. I steal everything. Ha ha ha, and
Speaker 4: and the poor man kind of goes, are you are
Speaker 4: you kidding me? Are you serious and and and leaves,
Speaker 4: and he actually does steal the property of another and
Speaker 4: gets in trouble and goes to prison, and as as
Speaker 4: it happens, he happened, he gets out. However long it
Speaker 4: is later and he's kind of angry at the rich man,
Speaker 4: and because he followed his advice, he thinks, and he's like,
Speaker 4: this guy, this guy's a total thief. He should be
Speaker 4: in jail, like I had to go to jail. And
Speaker 4: he goes to see the rich man again and he
Speaker 4: tells him what happened to him. He said, I took
Speaker 4: your advice, and I stole a necklace from at this
Speaker 4: woman's place, and she got me in trouble, and I
Speaker 4: just spent the last year in prison. And the rich
Speaker 4: man says, what you fool, You actually stole from someone.
Speaker 4: Here's what I do. None of this stuff you see
Speaker 4: in here is mine. In the spring, I find turtles
Speaker 4: and I get their shells, and I exchange the turtle
Speaker 4: meat for soup to make soup. And in the summer
Speaker 4: I harvest vegetables and I exchange this for that, and
Speaker 4: I get pheasants and so forth, and then et cetera.
Speaker 4: In the fall, I do my major harvest in the winter,
Speaker 4: I go to get big game because I can track
Speaker 4: them in the snow. So he goes through this seasonal
Speaker 4: explanation of how he works with nature and harvest off
Speaker 4: the land that is indeed none of it's his, and
Speaker 4: he ends up exchanging the resources for things that might
Speaker 4: become his.
Speaker 1: And that's what he meant by.
Speaker 4: The bye that he stole it, not that he actually
Speaker 4: stole property. And so we see this kind of distinction
Speaker 4: I think, in a lot of different mindsets and cultures
Speaker 4: and given you know, what's what's a proper medium of abundance,
Speaker 4: rather to the kind of materialistic approach you know that
Speaker 4: is so commonplace now, where it's an over abundance and
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter how you got it so much as
Speaker 4: is important in that story, because you must pay consequences
Speaker 4: if you got it through a morale immoral paths, whereas
Speaker 4: if you're working with the land and so forth, all
Speaker 4: of a sudden you do have this cornucopia, and it's
Speaker 4: very much like you know, you stole one turtleshell and
Speaker 4: then started trading things.
Speaker 1: Right. Well, the idea there, I think, is that all
Speaker 1: this stuff belongs to the gods and we're constantly stealing
Speaker 1: from their realms to make something. And this was a
Speaker 1: big part of the I guess you would call it
Speaker 1: the pagan religion, is that you didn't have to believe
Speaker 1: in these gods, but you did have to pay them
Speaker 1: in return for what you're taking from their realms.
Speaker 5: Right, So.
Speaker 1: What you'll find in all of these orphic hymns is
Speaker 1: that they'll always talk about being blameless. Right, let me
Speaker 1: live a blameless life. Because what they wanted to avoid
Speaker 1: was getting jinxd.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: We know that term, right, jinxd, but that jinx it
Speaker 1: was originally a Greek term. It was yanks and that
Speaker 1: yinks was Hecate's wheel, and Hecate's wheel is sort of
Speaker 1: that symbol of this wheel of fortune that is associated
Speaker 1: with tiki. And so the you know, the constant turning
Speaker 1: of the seasons, the constant changing of these different things
Speaker 1: requires you to bring offerings and say thanks for all
Speaker 1: of the stuff that you've stolen throughout the year. And
Speaker 1: so they really didn't care which gods or goddesses you
Speaker 1: were making sacrifices too, just as long as you were
Speaker 1: doing it, because they didn't want to get the blame
Speaker 1: or the responsibility or the collective punishment if you were
Speaker 1: taking from nature and not giving back, you know. And
Speaker 1: so that sort of recognition was a way of keeping
Speaker 1: the idea of humoris in check, because it's really easy
Speaker 1: for you to be this masterful hunter, take all the
Speaker 1: game and leave none for everybody else. But it takes
Speaker 1: a little bit more forethought and a little bit more
Speaker 1: humility to understand that you take enough for yourself and
Speaker 1: not too much. And basically, you don't get caught, right,
Speaker 1: You don't want to get caught, and getting caught would mean,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously overstepping your boundaries, knowing your place, knowing
Speaker 1: how you fit the world. So I threw up there
Speaker 1: in the comment section the picture of Hecate's wheel, if
Speaker 1: you could bring that up. And what I found out
Speaker 1: a while ago is the guy who invented wheel of
Speaker 1: Fortune the game show was this guy named MERV Griffin,
Speaker 1: and MERV Griffin was a I believe he was initiated
Speaker 1: into the mysteries because.
Speaker 3: All of his.
Speaker 1: Game shows all seem to have this Greek origin. And
Speaker 1: so this hecatas wheel right here represented you know, this
Speaker 1: is the constant turning of the seasons, the constant you know,
Speaker 1: flicker of the light as it goes around our skies
Speaker 1: and as it's turning. This wheel of fortune is associated
Speaker 1: with luck and superstition and everything else. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: Hecata is one of those interesting characters that really did
Speaker 1: get carried over into the the later Catholic sort of religion,
Speaker 1: because you could see on the Catholic flag these two
Speaker 1: big old keys coming into the middle. And those two
Speaker 1: keys where Hecate's keys before they were the Pope's keys,
Speaker 1: but they represent the same thing. So Hecita has the
Speaker 1: keys to Hell, and the Pope is supposed to have
Speaker 1: the keys to Hell, and you can open it up
Speaker 1: and you know, see the underworld and all the rest
Speaker 1: of these things. And now those keys are being transferred
Speaker 1: over to the Catholic Church, and so the keys to
Speaker 1: having her hell. She moves between the world. She's got
Speaker 1: a lot of characteristics like Aramis or Hermes, and so
Speaker 1: you've got these ideas that are all wrapped up in
Speaker 1: this sort of Hecates wheel and so wheel of fortune. Again,
Speaker 1: the Greeks were really really into their language, and so
Speaker 1: their language and their numbering system were also the same.
Speaker 1: They didn't have separate numerals for their numbers. They would
Speaker 1: just use their letters for those numbers as well, which
Speaker 1: is where you get this concept of isopsaphy or isopsaphy
Speaker 1: in Greek, which was their form of numerology. So all
Speaker 1: of the letters and all of the numbers were all
Speaker 1: coming together in these things. And what do you see
Speaker 1: in a wheel of fortune. You've got the numbers representing
Speaker 1: all this money that you can win, and you've got
Speaker 1: all these letters scrambled up on the board that you've
Speaker 1: got to figure out what the meaning is between all
Speaker 1: these puzzles, right, And so merv. Griffin was part of
Speaker 1: a you know, Greek society coming up through college, and
Speaker 1: I believe he took a lot of what he learned
Speaker 1: in those Greek societies with him to make these game shows.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think the Greeks would love those
Speaker 1: game shows. If you had the same kind of thing
Speaker 1: for the ancient Greeks, I think they would absolutely dig
Speaker 1: it because they were really deep into this concept of
Speaker 1: tiki and into the concept of kaidos. And as you're
Speaker 1: up there on the stage doing your thing, you know,
Speaker 1: that's you know, kind of represents a lot of their
Speaker 1: gaming prowess because you know, the first pair of dice
Speaker 1: came through the concept of tiki. It was dedicated to
Speaker 1: tiki before everything else. And you've got these Romans who
Speaker 1: were constantly playing dice. They had what they called a
Speaker 1: dice tower, and so you know in the Bible they
Speaker 1: talk about the casting of lots. They had different ways
Speaker 1: of gambling, but one of the ways was to throw
Speaker 1: these dice into a Roman dice tower so that you
Speaker 1: couldn't cheat as the dice are falling down, and so
Speaker 1: it would scramble up the numbers as it's coming through.
Speaker 1: So the casting of lots, the you know, idea of fortune,
Speaker 1: it was everywhere in the ancient world. I mean, how
Speaker 1: many times did you hear it? And you know the
Speaker 1: Bible talking about, you know, being associated with Jesus' stuff
Speaker 1: as he was dying, like the soldiers were casting lots
Speaker 1: for his robes and stuff. They would cast lots all
Speaker 1: the time. This was part of the ancient world and
Speaker 1: how they divvy things up, because if you can't make
Speaker 1: the decision right there, you've always got a guy with
Speaker 1: a pair of dice ready to go, you know, And
Speaker 1: gambling and everything else was a major part of how
Speaker 1: they sought that now again, you know you've got gambling
Speaker 1: sort of being made to be banal. You've got cards, right.
Speaker 1: The tarot is a perfect example of this kind of
Speaker 1: tiki associated with both gaming and fortune telling. And it's
Speaker 1: hard to deny the link between regular old playing cards
Speaker 1: and this idea of tiki. And this is the is
Speaker 1: the crossover, this is the linkage between it all, and
Speaker 1: they don't have to say it. It's right there in
Speaker 1: the cards. You know, you've got the Wheel of Fortune
Speaker 1: right there as a prominent feature.
Speaker 2: So you know, I want to ask you, I hate
Speaker 2: to kind of go backwards, but I mean you mentioned
Speaker 2: wheel of Fortune now, and that's kind of like you know,
Speaker 2: on the taro you mentioned the fool. You think it's
Speaker 2: quite possible that the scales in his hand was even
Speaker 2: Going back to the judgment.
Speaker 1: Corde absolutely well. That goes to the idea of this
Speaker 1: tiki nemesis, right. So what you have to do is
Speaker 1: you have to create this good balance between work and play.
Speaker 1: You have to create this good balance between you know,
Speaker 1: your family and your obligations. And if you don't, if
Speaker 1: you have this hubris, you're gonna throw the balance off
Speaker 1: like it's on a razor. Thin edge, so you have
Speaker 1: to be conscious of it. It goes back into knowing yourself,
Speaker 1: and so the idea of judgment has that nemesis feel
Speaker 1: to it, because what you'll find in a lot of
Speaker 1: Greek mythology is that the implements of these gods will
Speaker 1: carry over from one character to the other. So they'll
Speaker 1: call Athena the shield bearer of Zeus, and she's got
Speaker 1: on her shield, she's got Medusa, and Medusa was slain
Speaker 1: by Perseus, and this idea between Perseus slaying Medusa and
Speaker 1: giving it to Athena to put on this shield, the
Speaker 1: shield that I used to you know, approach her without
Speaker 1: looking directly at her because it had a mirror on
Speaker 1: the inside. And then the mirror itself goes back to Zagrias,
Speaker 1: and Zagrias had this inner dimensional mirror where he could
Speaker 1: see between the worlds, you know. So between these ideas
Speaker 1: you start to get a much fuller picture based off
Speaker 1: of the holy implements that were then used in these
Speaker 1: mystery rights. So part of the mystery rights is you
Speaker 1: would go into these temple chambers where they would have
Speaker 1: these holy implements that you would have to understand as
Speaker 1: part of the initiation process. And I'm sure that was
Speaker 1: the same thing with the initiations you would go through
Speaker 1: in the Oto. They would have these holy implements that
Speaker 1: you then had to understand so that you can get
Speaker 1: the full meaning of the initiation.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: That is fascinating. What was it of Zagrias that he
Speaker 4: could peer into the world?
Speaker 1: So the mirror of Zagreas now wasn't his right, This
Speaker 1: was given to him by a different dimensional version of Hara.
Speaker 1: So Harah found out in a different dimension that Zagoras
Speaker 1: was actually the son of Persephone and Zeus. And so
Speaker 1: this Hera in a different dimension, figured out a way
Speaker 1: to deliver this mirror that would cause these Zagreuses to
Speaker 1: be drawn into her dimensions so that she could kill
Speaker 1: them for being the front of Zeus.
Speaker 2: Right, And so.
Speaker 4: Well, I was gonna say no, no, please continue.
Speaker 1: Sirry Zagarias. After he was killed, his heart was then
Speaker 1: taken by Athena and put inside of Zeus's leg so
Speaker 1: that he could rise again as Dionysus. So Zagorias Dionysus
Speaker 1: is a pretty common theme there. But here's the thing.
Speaker 1: If it's interdimensional and it encompasses all these different timelines,
Speaker 1: and what they were talking about with the mirror, is
Speaker 1: what happens if somebody made a different decision, because that
Speaker 1: would spurred off another timeline. They were talking about this
Speaker 1: stuff in ancient Greece, right, they were talking about robots
Speaker 1: and ancient Greece. You know, they had all this sort
Speaker 1: of knowledge that's encoded into the stuff. So Zagorias would
Speaker 1: be looking through this mirror into these other dimensions where
Speaker 1: people made these other decisions, and this Hera character was
Speaker 1: trying to kill off all of the Zagreases and these
Speaker 1: other dimensions because she knew his origin story. Zagoras didn't
Speaker 1: want to be in Hades anymore because he thought he
Speaker 1: was Hades's kid. He didn't want to be in the underworld.
Speaker 1: He didn't want to be in Tartarus anymore. He wanted
Speaker 1: to be on Mount Olympus. He didn't know why, but
Speaker 1: looking through this mirror, he got this impression that that's
Speaker 1: where he was supposed to be. Well, this interdimensional Hera
Speaker 1: decided to take advantage of that and start killing them off. Well,
Speaker 1: if you look at Jesus, Jesus would be another interdimensional
Speaker 1: version of Dionysus. If you look at Osiris, he's another
Speaker 1: interdimensional version of Zagrias right, he's split apart, he's torn
Speaker 1: apart into pieces. So what you end up seeing there
Speaker 1: is that maybe they were discussing some kind of a
Speaker 1: deep spiritual principle behind this multidimensional consciousness that's in all
Speaker 1: of these different narratives today. So, you know, people think
Speaker 1: that this multiverse idea is something.
Speaker 3: New, but it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not new at all. It goes back to really
Speaker 1: ancient versions of these Dinysis stories. And if you look
Speaker 1: at how Dionysus were born over and over and over
Speaker 1: again in all these different different cultures, it's hard not
Speaker 1: to understand that that goes back to the Dionysus origin story.
Speaker 1: You know, he's a multidimensional guy on different planes of consciousness.
Speaker 1: And if these are a bunch of different timelines that
Speaker 1: are being smashed together, like they talk about with all
Speaker 1: of this glitch in the matrix story, maybe that's not
Speaker 1: something new. Maybe this has to do with some sort
Speaker 1: of cosmic weather. You know, as we're traveling throughout this galaxy,
Speaker 1: throughout the Solar System, maybe there are different forms of
Speaker 1: cosmic weather that are influencing how these timelines are merging
Speaker 1: into each other. Maybe there's a version out there of
Speaker 1: this Cairos figure that is figuring out on a kind
Speaker 1: of an ai basis how to maintain the balance while
Speaker 1: also incorporating different timelines.
Speaker 4: Well, that is all fascinating. I was going to say
Speaker 4: that that whole story, I mean, beck in so many
Speaker 4: like allegories and sci fi movies too. But it also
Speaker 4: makes me think of and I'm sure I'm not the
Speaker 4: only one, the tool that John d would use for
Speaker 4: his scrying right, and he obtained it apparently from Aztecs
Speaker 4: or somewhere in the Americas anyway, which and it had
Speaker 4: the same kind of idea, but but more so as
Speaker 4: what you were getting into what made me think You
Speaker 4: made me think about how they were really asking in
Speaker 4: the most profound, magical, if you wish manner, what if?
Speaker 4: And it just made me think of that the power
Speaker 4: of asking what if we did this differently leads to
Speaker 4: such a developmental kind of orientation of like, we don't
Speaker 4: have to do it one way, we could do it
Speaker 4: the other way. We've we've thought about it a lot,
Speaker 4: and I think it's better to do it this way.
Speaker 4: So just kind of I feel like it has a
Speaker 4: powerful effect on the psyche. If you will, and I
Speaker 4: think overall, even fortune or misfortune or you know, is
Speaker 4: it miss or miss I don't know, but the fickle
Speaker 4: nature of her really if for me, I think many
Speaker 4: people might respond to it differently. I guess over time,
Speaker 4: but I think most people and myself, it makes me
Speaker 4: think of of being motivated to take action in a
Speaker 4: very scary, dangerous world where you could die real easy,
Speaker 4: but you're inspired to take action and overcome that fear
Speaker 4: because of the fickleness of Mischance, who has this weird
Speaker 4: nature and really so to humans in a way, has
Speaker 4: this weird nature to help those that help themselves right,
Speaker 4: And it makes me think of kind of the union
Speaker 4: of martial and meditative arts, and even in this idea
Speaker 4: of luck and just a very human consciousness behavior idea
Speaker 4: is that we won't help someone who doesn't help themselves.
Speaker 4: If we see someone who's helping themselves were and they
Speaker 4: need help, we really are motivated to help them. If
Speaker 4: they are not helping themselves, we're not motivated.
Speaker 2: Oh damn, we lost them again.
Speaker 1: Oh well, well, yeah, I think it's your perception of
Speaker 1: luck that has a lot to do with the outcome
Speaker 1: of these things. And so this is goes back into superstition, like, well,
Speaker 1: why do you have the rabbit's foot? Don't ask why,
Speaker 1: just know that you have it. You know, why do
Speaker 1: you have the horseshoe. Don't ask why, just know that
Speaker 1: you have it. You've got the horseshoe, You've got the MacGuffin,
Speaker 1: You've got the thing that does the thing. And as
Speaker 1: long as you believe it, then you're going to have
Speaker 1: that luck, right, because it's a way of subverting your
Speaker 1: antipathy or your you know, fear, because fear is the
Speaker 1: best way to get into that taichi Nemorensis or nemesis. Right,
Speaker 1: the more afraid you are, the more manifesting of fear
Speaker 1: you are in your life, and the more fear you
Speaker 1: have in your life, the more likely it is that
Speaker 1: you're going to attract those things. So the depiction of
Speaker 1: Taiche throughout these different myths, sometimes they would refer to
Speaker 1: her as being blind, right, She's not blind necessarily, but
Speaker 1: she's seeing through your eyes. And then they would talk
Speaker 1: about how sometimes Tayche can can become overly board with
Speaker 1: whatever situation she's looking at. Want to change things up.
Speaker 1: I want to throw those dice to see what else
Speaker 1: she could throw in there. And that's that's a big
Speaker 1: part of that, uh, that superstition as well. You know, uh,
Speaker 1: you have to be constantly on your toes. You have
Speaker 1: to be constantly vigilant to avoid upsetting her, you know what,
Speaker 1: Fortune will be upset at you. And so I think
Speaker 1: a lot of this, Uh, if you want to play
Speaker 1: that next video by the let me see what's it
Speaker 1: called the prayer to Fortune. Now, a lot of these
Speaker 1: orphic hymns, they were in Latin by the time we
Speaker 1: got them, and so you can see the prayer to Fortuna.
Speaker 1: You can see she's got that blindfold on head.
Speaker 4: Listen, can you remind us what what?
Speaker 5: What was played?
Speaker 4: Firstly? And is that orphic too?
Speaker 1: No, that was much later on. That was a whole
Speaker 1: poem because this guy was really feeling bad about himself
Speaker 1: and so he wrote that is you know, Fortune, you
Speaker 1: despicable tyrant. You're constantly beating us down. Is there anything
Speaker 1: we can do to get out from under this horrible
Speaker 1: judgment that you're constantly putting on us? And so, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like the lament of mortals. The more you see
Speaker 1: it from that, oh Fortuna perspective, the worst things get
Speaker 1: for you. But that's why it's so like grandiose and
Speaker 1: so you know, oppressive, and you know everything else is
Speaker 1: because it's just it's difficult to deal with. And it's
Speaker 1: all about that perception.
Speaker 4: And talent. When you when you balance things like those scales,
Speaker 4: you can really enhance your perception.
Speaker 1: Right, right, those scales really have to do a lot
Speaker 1: with how you see the world and how how you're
Speaker 1: enjoying yourself, how you're enjoying your your time.
Speaker 7: Here self, approach strong fortune with propitious mind and rich
Speaker 7: abundance to my prayer. Inclined, placid and gentle. Hecity might
Speaker 7: be named Imperial Artemis, born of Pluto. Famed mankind's unconquered,
Speaker 7: endless praise is yours sepulchral, widely wandering power divine in you,
Speaker 7: Our various mortal life is found, and some from eucopious
Speaker 7: wealth abounds, while others mourn Your hand of verstablas in
Speaker 7: all the bitter of deep distress. Be present, Goddess to
Speaker 7: we who worship you, and give abundance with a benevolent mind,
Speaker 7: Goddess of Fate, I call upon thee enter my circle
Speaker 7: and come to me you know every secret, and I'm
Speaker 7: eager to learn. Clear my paths and let your wheel turn.
Speaker 7: Bless my life with good luck and fortune. Fill me
Speaker 7: with spiritual and material wealth. Pluck the vibrating strings of
Speaker 7: destiny and fate. Approach strong fortune with propitious mind and
Speaker 7: rich abundance to my prayer inclined.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you can see a lot of goddesses and
Speaker 1: gods in there, like Artemis associated with fortune. Well, she's
Speaker 1: the huntress, right, and if you don't have that fortune
Speaker 1: out on the hunt, you're never gonna run across the
Speaker 1: deer that you can kill. I mean, it's very much
Speaker 1: entwined with all that stuff. And again plucking the strings
Speaker 1: of fate, well, you know the moid I or the
Speaker 1: you know the fates, they only had one eye between them.
Speaker 1: And she's got the blindfold on, so you can really
Speaker 1: see how these implements are then coming together. The judgment card,
Speaker 1: she's got the blindfold on, right, blind judgment. Back to
Speaker 1: that same symbol you look up decay or the daughter
Speaker 1: of themis themis is the original one holding the scales
Speaker 1: with the sword and what you find in the amenities
Speaker 1: on nature. He talks about this woman with the scales
Speaker 1: and the well, he says, the woman with the sword
Speaker 1: guarding the temple of the Knight or the temple of Nicks.
Speaker 1: And so he's talking about how fortune is also involved
Speaker 1: in being able to see the world for is what
Speaker 1: it really is. And everybody agrees that Parmenides was the
Speaker 1: start of this formalized philosophy, and when he made on nature,
Speaker 1: he formalized it in the phrase nature cannot contradict itself.
Speaker 1: And so this basic non contradictory worldview was inspired by
Speaker 1: this sort of vision journey that he took into this
Speaker 1: palace of the night. Now, if you're not really up
Speaker 1: to speed on all of these different Greek symbols, you
Speaker 1: have no idea what he's talking about. But once you
Speaker 1: see all the symbols come together into this cornucopia of knowledge,
Speaker 1: right then you could start to understand exactly what he's
Speaker 1: seeing and how it relates directly to these things. And again,
Speaker 1: all of these symbols are just jam packed into that
Speaker 1: taro because the people who studied these orphic hymns were
Speaker 1: trying to put it together in a way that would
Speaker 1: honor the gods, in a way that the gods were
Speaker 1: used to and the gods were used to being very
Speaker 1: heavily associated to these implements. So you've got the coins.
Speaker 1: Fortuna was all over Roman coins, right, because this is
Speaker 1: what you were trying to bring in, and you see
Speaker 1: it in that hymn. There's constantly talking about please be propitious.
Speaker 1: Propitious means we offer you something to get something back.
Speaker 1: They're not talking about faith, they're talking about propitiousness. It's
Speaker 1: not about how much they believe in you. It's about
Speaker 1: how they can trade with you. Because you know, these
Speaker 1: ancient Roman and Greek religions were not about faith. It
Speaker 1: was just this is what it is. And you really
Speaker 1: lose a lot of that when it gets kind of
Speaker 1: cultified into Christianity, where you have to believe to be
Speaker 1: a part, you have to believe. We don't believe that
Speaker 1: you're believing enough, you know, So it became that sort
Speaker 1: of mental thing instead of a physical thing. The physical
Speaker 1: act of bringing sacrifices to the temple, offering of what
Speaker 1: you've made, offering a part of what you've stolen from
Speaker 1: the land was important and it didn't matter if you
Speaker 1: believed in them or not. What you wanted to do
Speaker 1: is you wanted to make the offerings so that they
Speaker 1: knew you appreciated them forgiving you all these different links,
Speaker 1: all these different ideas that came together in this form
Speaker 1: of energy that allowed you to get the thing. So
Speaker 1: if you've got a deer, you should offer part of
Speaker 1: it to the gods who allowed you to get that deer.
Speaker 1: It goes back to the moiitai or the fates. If
Speaker 1: it was your fate to receive that deer. You need
Speaker 1: to pay the fates back. You know, if you're having
Speaker 1: a wonderful life, you need to be able to balance
Speaker 1: on those scales exactly what you need to give back
Speaker 1: to the gods so that they know you appreciate about it.
Speaker 4: It reminds me the idea of luck and dealing with
Speaker 4: the fates reminds me of kind of I don't want
Speaker 4: to call it New Age bs necessarily, but it's kind
Speaker 4: of as hearkens to that idea, which is kind of
Speaker 4: a dilution even from that poorly practiced Christian stuff. The
Speaker 4: notion when someone whenever someone says, oh the energy is
Speaker 4: off today, it's a bad the energy is bad today,
Speaker 4: or they're having a bad time that day, so they
Speaker 4: say something akin to that. Uh, And I always want
Speaker 4: to say, or I always think by way of my
Speaker 4: own expression of that, not necessarily other people, but I
Speaker 4: always want to say to them. And I don't, you know,
Speaker 4: be it trying to try not to be confrontational, But no,
Speaker 4: am I still there? Nick just just moved on. What
Speaker 4: did you do yesterday to make the energy off today?
Speaker 4: Because when you're stable, when you're dealing with things properly,
Speaker 4: you you know, you don't you don't worry about the
Speaker 4: energy that day. It's you know, what you did yesterday
Speaker 4: really gets the fates going. And in in martial art
Speaker 4: practices and probably Buddhist titles and recognition, there's certain levels
Speaker 4: that one attains where essentially something can into sharp pointed
Speaker 4: our objects will not harm you, and you know, blunt weapon,
Speaker 4: we weapon, we will miss you, and the boulders will
Speaker 4: not fall on your head, and all these things that
Speaker 4: kind of you could read like luck, but also like
Speaker 4: maybe they're just kind of smart enough or practiced enough
Speaker 4: at that point that they don't walk underneath a cliff fall,
Speaker 4: or don't go to the bar where there's going to
Speaker 4: be a knife fight, you know, is another idea, And
Speaker 4: to that martial art, I kind of correspondence in in uh.
Speaker 4: I believe it's a Japanese word, but this is in
Speaker 4: every martial art. Whenever you move or in every posture,
Speaker 4: there is a ski which is an opening, and so
Speaker 4: h one the idea is to kind of look the
Speaker 4: opportunity that the opposition presents itself. And or when when
Speaker 4: considering fortuna or tichi uh, you you you want to
Speaker 4: really like roll with it and understand that that's your
Speaker 4: best way, even when it seems kind of negative. I
Speaker 4: was also I was thinking about Boethius, right, who wrote
Speaker 4: The Consolation of Philosophy, and I think some people call
Speaker 4: him like the last Roman philosopher, right, because he was
Speaker 4: like kind of like after that Rome fell, you know,
Speaker 4: and Bollethius was stuck in prison, and I believe he
Speaker 4: was executed or maybe if is it fictional or nonfiction,
Speaker 4: I forget if it was real. But Boethius is in
Speaker 4: prison and he writes the Consolation of Philosophy, philosophy being
Speaker 4: the embodiment of a woman in his mind, but really fortune, right,
Speaker 4: Philosophy and fortune kind of being the same thing in
Speaker 4: this Consolation of Philosophy, which has really got some great
Speaker 4: humor in it as well as its lessons. But there's
Speaker 4: a couple of little quick quote quotes on fortune which
Speaker 4: really kind of underlines what you've been saying.
Speaker 6: This.
Speaker 4: All fortune is good fortune, for it either rewards, disciplines, amends,
Speaker 4: or punishes, and so is either useful or just There's
Speaker 4: that justice and two other little quick ones. The greatest
Speaker 4: misery in adverse fortune is once to have been happy.
Speaker 4: Excuse me, Lady Fortune shows her constancy by being inconstant.
Speaker 4: Were she ever to stop the spinning of her wheel,
Speaker 4: she would no longer be fortune. So like the the
Speaker 4: Boethius consolation of philosophy, is a rich kind of aspect
Speaker 4: of all this as as it turns out.
Speaker 1: Right, and that really gets to the heart of it.
Speaker 1: You know, what are we doing? What are we learning
Speaker 1: from our fortunes? And that fortune of knowledge is something
Speaker 1: that can't be replaced. Once you've got the experience of
Speaker 1: the thing, you you then can use it or you
Speaker 1: don't learn from it, you know, and you end up
Speaker 1: repeating it. And so it really goes hard into that
Speaker 1: realm as well. And I wanted to bring up spirits
Speaker 1: daimonis as the Greeks called them, because Aristotle talks about
Speaker 1: his daimonas which was a gas fly, and a gadfly
Speaker 1: is something that basically it's a fighting insect, right, and
Speaker 1: so Aristotle demones would always be there to whisper in
Speaker 1: his ear what he must not do, right, So it
Speaker 1: kind of goes into that as well. It's like his
Speaker 1: fortune is to have this thing in his ear that
Speaker 1: would tell him not to do something, and so it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of that idea of riding that fate, that
Speaker 1: that wave. Maybe having a little bit of that understanding
Speaker 1: of the spirit world goes into your fate as well.
Speaker 1: And so this goes back to knowing yourself and if
Speaker 1: you know yourself and you have those connections with these daimones.
Speaker 1: Daimonis is just the generic term in Greek for spirit,
Speaker 1: but it got turned into demons. Obviously, we're not talking
Speaker 1: too much about those those demons that other people have
Speaker 1: carried with them. When it comes to you know, why
Speaker 1: does God hate me?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: Why is God punishing me? It's the same idea, it's
Speaker 1: the fortunes. Why am I afflicted by these demons? Well?
Speaker 1: Is it your are you learning from it? Or are
Speaker 1: we stuck on the wheel?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 1: Are we giving ourselves over to the wheel because we're
Speaker 1: not learning from it? And in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: I think that knowing yourself gets you more in touch
Speaker 1: with the daimonas is because the Greeks had this this
Speaker 1: ability that we don't have today, which is where they
Speaker 1: would know the difference between the voice in their head
Speaker 1: and the voice of the gods. They would know the
Speaker 1: difference between a prophetic dream and just a regular run
Speaker 1: of the mill, crazy craziness dream. Now could that be
Speaker 1: because of their cultural connection to the land and their
Speaker 1: cultural connected connectedness to these ideas that allowed them to
Speaker 1: have the fortune to build things like the Parthenon and
Speaker 1: build these you know, beautiful things that have survived to
Speaker 1: this day. And what are we what are we doing
Speaker 1: if we don't have a little bit of an eye
Speaker 1: to that, to that fortune as well, because to look
Speaker 1: at what they accomplished and what we're going through today,
Speaker 1: it's like, how could these things even mesh up? Maybe
Speaker 1: that idea of the fortunes and being connected to these daimonas.
Speaker 1: The daimonas were then converted in the Bible to the
Speaker 1: princes and powers of the air. So you had the
Speaker 1: Greek daimonas that was talked about in the Seven Nations, right,
Speaker 1: and so this Greek daimonis was given, you know, a
Speaker 1: name and talked about as this evil, oppressive principle of
Speaker 1: this foreign people.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not saying it's wrong, because that that uh,
Speaker 1: that term, that idea was originally coming from that Greek
Speaker 1: concept of understanding that these different people with these different
Speaker 1: cultures would end up having a different perspective based off
Speaker 1: of the words they use and all the rest of
Speaker 1: these things that would add up together to make that culture,
Speaker 1: you know. So, yeah, there is a difference in these
Speaker 1: these different peoples based off of these cultural factors and
Speaker 1: based off of these familial bonds and all the rest
Speaker 1: of these things, how they looked at their ancestors that
Speaker 1: would add up to that fortune seeing things a different way.
Speaker 1: But when everybody's evil except for me, it starts to
Speaker 1: get a little bit into that realm of is this
Speaker 1: cultural narcissism, you know, And we have to understand that
Speaker 1: in the Old Testament, the word that they used for
Speaker 1: nations was goyam, and goyam means cattle. So they were
Speaker 1: looking at these other seven nations and they called them
Speaker 1: all cattle, right, And that doesn't really translate well if
Speaker 1: you're looking at the original text versus what they call
Speaker 1: them now, because they weren't called nations, they were called
Speaker 1: the goyam. So that's a little bit of an insight
Speaker 1: there as to what cultural narcissism really comes across as so,
Speaker 1: and they're talking about us, you know, they weren't talking
Speaker 1: about other people. They were talking about us as cattle.
Speaker 1: And we keep saying this stuff from the Old Testament
Speaker 1: over and over again and having it influence our culture.
Speaker 1: I think that dimonas of everybody sucks but me is
Speaker 1: kind of getting stuck, and maybe we should be aware
Speaker 1: of it, because I don't think that's good. I don't
Speaker 1: think cultural narcissism is good either. I think what we
Speaker 1: should do is be looking towards the balance. Maybe we
Speaker 1: shouldn't be viewing ourselves in that perspective. We should have
Speaker 1: a more balanced perspective. That's where you get a lot
Speaker 1: of the ideas of nobility from right, because nobility seeks balance,
Speaker 1: seeks order, seeks justice. Right, that's what the idea of
Speaker 1: the most noble in your society, the elites, they would
Speaker 1: be looking towards those principles so that they could have
Speaker 1: more harmony, right, The ideas of justice and harmony really
Speaker 1: go hand in hand. These are implements. On one hand,
Speaker 1: You've got the harp, and you can't play the harp
Speaker 1: if it's not balanced, you know, if it's not in tune.
Speaker 1: So if you're not thinking about the ideas of justice
Speaker 1: and harmony, you're really missing out. You're going to have
Speaker 1: a disharmonious, disordered society. And that's a hard thing to balance.
Speaker 1: You know. That goes back to the razor blade. You know,
Speaker 1: that razor blade that Kaidos is holding is a very
Speaker 1: very hard thing to balance a scale on, especially if
Speaker 1: you're loading up that scale with all the things that
Speaker 1: you've done over the years. But you know, I think
Speaker 1: this is a this is a really interesting topic that
Speaker 1: gets really off and overlooked because, yes, it's not out
Speaker 1: there in anything other than the symbols we use. Think
Speaker 1: about all the symbols that they use on a slot machine.
Speaker 1: What do the cherries mean? Right? What does the bar mean?
Speaker 1: What does bar mean? Why is it there? You've got
Speaker 1: all the coins, We know what the coins mean. That's
Speaker 1: a jackpot, right, But some of the other symbols in
Speaker 1: there are incomprehensible, but they're so obvious, they're so in
Speaker 1: your face, and they get used over and over again.
Speaker 1: Is this is this like the jinks? Are we being
Speaker 1: jinxed here?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 1: Because jinks can be a good or a bad thing
Speaker 1: according to you know, the myths of Hecate the wheel
Speaker 1: could be you know, very good or it could be
Speaker 1: very bad. So what are we sort of bringing into
Speaker 1: our lives? And do we understand it? We go to
Speaker 1: those one armed bit. I know a lot of people
Speaker 1: who go to the casino all the time? Seven seven seven?
Speaker 1: What's what's that mean?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: They don't have threes on the bandit? Yeah, everybody's saying it.
Speaker 4: I saw, I saw that they frequently referred to tyche
Speaker 4: or for tuna, as isis tichy, and isis for tuna, right,
Speaker 4: of course, beckoning to Egyptian traditions. And and one one
Speaker 4: thing I think the Greeks were obsessed with, and that's
Speaker 4: why time, the different aspects of time and of course
Speaker 4: fortune they were so compelled by and obsessed with. Even
Speaker 4: is right, that sense of order that not isis But
Speaker 4: Mahat was more symbolic with as the teacher of.
Speaker 1: And I believe she was.
Speaker 4: She was spoke in terms of negation, and you made
Speaker 4: sure that one did not do a thing. Uh as
Speaker 4: you were describing, Uh, the god whispering into the ear
Speaker 4: telling the person.
Speaker 2: Not this is what not to do.
Speaker 4: It's kind of like, uh, reminds me of a tale
Speaker 4: of a guru, a teacher and a guru and excuse me,
Speaker 4: a student and a guru and the student wants to
Speaker 4: learn the mantra to become enlightened, and the guru can't
Speaker 4: be bothered with this, you know, for a long time,
Speaker 4: and finally he says, okay, okay, I'll tell you ghana podme,
Speaker 4: but do not ever think of a monkey when you
Speaker 4: say this. And so, you know, whatever the mantra was,
Speaker 4: I forget, but the point being, uh, you know, he
Speaker 4: tols him, tells him the mantra, and then not to
Speaker 4: think of something. And of course you're just never gonna
Speaker 4: get away from that.
Speaker 1: Uh, don't think of the purple elephant. Yeah, eat them.
Speaker 1: I just told you. Don't think of the purple elephant.
Speaker 4: Purple elephants for days now.
Speaker 1: Right, don't think of anything. But what Mario was saying
Speaker 1: there symbolic studies is like all of these things started
Speaker 1: out as divination. They still are. You're testing your fortune
Speaker 1: by putting the money in the slot that determines your fate,
Speaker 1: whether you're going to be.
Speaker 4: I was going to say to you that I think
Speaker 4: maybe one reason that there's the tendency for our culture,
Speaker 4: maybe cultures at large, because they kind of we as
Speaker 4: humans all have this potential and governments and churches seem
Speaker 4: to enforce it, or ever so subtly when when there
Speaker 4: is a connection, right like with this isis and Tuna,
Speaker 4: it beckons to all these wonderful traditions being connected. And therefore,
Speaker 4: like you know, the monotheist mindset wants to say, oh,
Speaker 4: this is the first book and we don't have anything
Speaker 4: to do with all that. Of course they don't say
Speaker 4: that literally, but they like to infer that.
Speaker 1: Right even though casting of Lots is all over that book,
Speaker 1: that had to come from somewhere, and talking about it
Speaker 1: now makes you realize it was a lot more divine
Speaker 1: than just divvying up pieces of clothing. It was a
Speaker 1: lot more connected to the polytheism of the time, reflected
Speaker 1: even in the language than what we're being led to believe.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just gambling this was religion, you know, and
Speaker 1: understanding that changes the concept of gambling, it really does.
Speaker 1: And the people who have kept that mindset they're the
Speaker 1: ones rigging the machines. And this is why they put
Speaker 1: their symbols all over the money, is because they want
Speaker 1: you to know who controls that money and it ate you.
Speaker 1: You're the one. You're a fortune's fool, right and so yeah,
Speaker 1: that that that kind of angle, there is something that
Speaker 1: should be respect. You've got to keep away from those
Speaker 1: systems that are rigged if you're ever going to win
Speaker 1: anything in life. And it goes back to the idea
Speaker 1: of that Cairos. If you're not doing what you want
Speaker 1: to do, you're somebody else's slave. Really does come down
Speaker 1: to it just as simple as that, if you're not
Speaker 1: doing what you want to do, you're essentially somebody else's puppet.
Speaker 1: And you've got to find that balance to get to
Speaker 1: the place where you can finally say, this is the
Speaker 1: Kaidos I'm looking for. This is this is the God
Speaker 1: that I'm grabbing a hold of. And you've got a
Speaker 1: plan for it because he's coming and once he's gone,
Speaker 1: you can't grab the back of his head. He's bald
Speaker 1: back there, there's nothing to hold on to. He just said, no,
Speaker 1: whisk right on, Bayya. That's why he's got those wings
Speaker 1: on his feet. It's that symbol of swiftness. It comes
Speaker 1: and goes as quickly as it comes. But I think, uh,
Speaker 1: there's a lot more to talk about. But you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just on my journey, starting out, trying to understand
Speaker 1: this stuff a little bit better. And I think there's
Speaker 1: a there's an essence there that I think everybody can
Speaker 1: resonate with. You've got to find the Cairos before you
Speaker 1: can understand tikey, and that is something I'm looking for.
Speaker 1: I'm looking for that Cairos. Let's get on that path.
Speaker 1: You know, he's beaten the trail around you. You've you've
Speaker 1: met him before, You've seen him. Like you were talking about,
Speaker 1: the only way that you can have a bad time
Speaker 1: is if you've had a good time. The only way
Speaker 1: you can condemn yourself to that that bad time is
Speaker 1: by knowing what the good times feel like?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Good? Did you give you something to appreciate?
Speaker 2: Ethan? Was there anything?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 2: Is there anything else that you wanted to say?
Speaker 4: I don't think so. It's a fascinating topic. I did
Speaker 4: uh kind of read or gather that when she dies,
Speaker 4: she turns into two goddesses, two other goddesses, which has
Speaker 4: that polarity that we've been suggesting, and that is in
Speaker 4: the chronos and chiros, and you know this negative consequences
Speaker 4: or positive consequences.
Speaker 1: So I just maybe maybe it's a separation from the fullness,
Speaker 1: right the pleroma, and you get that a lot in
Speaker 1: the ideas of gnoscissism too. It's the separation that all
Speaker 1: of this stuff really breaks down at. And so maybe
Speaker 1: we should be looking at it from a more full perspective.
Speaker 1: You know, you've got to merge the two and understand
Speaker 1: their importance so that you can get that fullness of perspective.
Speaker 1: But negative and positive, Yeah, are you good at this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's awesome.
Speaker 4: And b like Boetheists, you know, just know that our
Speaker 4: fates is ultimately sealed. There's a zen cone too that
Speaker 4: reminds me of life is about celebrating the departure of
Speaker 4: a boat that is doomed to sink, and so Boetheists
Speaker 4: being stuck in prison and just finding this this consolation
Speaker 4: of philosophy right, ultimately that the lessons that we learned,
Speaker 4: you know, are real the key you know what?
Speaker 2: Well, Oh go ahead, It's something I wanted to add
Speaker 2: real quick. And I'm wondering if like this is like
Speaker 2: somehow kind of like telling a story or something that
Speaker 2: maybe might make sense to you one of you guys.
Speaker 2: In Twin Peaks season three, Cooper comes back kind of
Speaker 2: like through a light switch, and some of some of
Speaker 2: the guy ends up like kind of like just disappearing.
Speaker 2: And then Cooper comes back through a light switch in
Speaker 2: the room that this other dude disappears in, and it's
Speaker 2: like kind of like the guy that was there was
Speaker 2: like a different version of Cooper, and now Cooper's like,
Speaker 2: you know, some other person, And long story short, you
Speaker 2: end up finding out that I guess the girl was
Speaker 2: a prostitute, So like now you kind of got like
Speaker 2: somebody with a whore or whatever, if you want to
Speaker 2: start looking at it like that. And she gives him
Speaker 2: like a ride, and like now he's like totally like stupid,
Speaker 2: Like he doesn't even know how to talk, he doesn't
Speaker 2: have to speak, he's just like following her around. She
Speaker 2: puts him in the car, they start driving. I did
Speaker 2: notice in Totally Cross Sycamore street. He doesn't even say
Speaker 2: a word. Then he starts speaking. I don't know if
Speaker 2: that had anything to do with it, but basically she
Speaker 2: ends up dropping him off at a casino and then
Speaker 2: when he goes in there, every machine has this flame
Speaker 2: above it, and if he goes over to it and
Speaker 2: plays it, he wins. And he was like showing other people.
Speaker 2: I think he showed a couple other people like to
Speaker 2: play that one because I had like a little thing
Speaker 2: on it early at a triangle, something above the machine
Speaker 2: that only he could see. He knew what he was
Speaker 2: gonna win.
Speaker 1: It's the full card, it's zero. You know, he's coming
Speaker 1: into existence and then he can he can sort of
Speaker 1: command fate. So there's that innocence or naivity of coming
Speaker 1: into form and then being able to see all of
Speaker 1: the spiritual markers that would lead you to this fake idea.
Speaker 1: And she's the one who brought him there. Maybe she
Speaker 1: was the concept of this, this horror being associated with
Speaker 1: tiki would kind of make sense, you know.
Speaker 2: And you know what's good, you know, you know it's
Speaker 2: crazy that the chick and this this had to have
Speaker 2: been on purpose, because if you even if you start
Speaker 2: thinking of like kind of like coming back into existence
Speaker 2: and needing feminine energy to check herself was black. She
Speaker 2: was wearing purple, and she drove a yellow jeep. That's
Speaker 2: all Saturn colors right there, right. It was so weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, moving moving from the outside to the inner. And
Speaker 1: there is that concept too of this sort of alchemical
Speaker 1: nature of the energies of the universe condensing down into
Speaker 1: physical form. So we think of life springing from the planet,
Speaker 1: but really it's all these energies that are condensing down
Speaker 1: into the planet that is forming the society. Yeah, beginner's luck.
Speaker 1: How many times have we heard that, you know? And
Speaker 1: so there is that idea of being close to this
Speaker 1: naivety or this nation state gives you this kind of luck,
Speaker 1: just kind of get you hooked, get you.
Speaker 4: And not thinking of that monkey, right, because when you're
Speaker 4: a beginner and you're innocent, you don't know the failure
Speaker 4: and it's not even in your and it's not even
Speaker 4: in your mind to manifest from your mind, so you
Speaker 4: only think about like, oh, I'm just gonna do this backflip.
Speaker 1: Yeah, teacher, any good teacher is going to want you
Speaker 1: in a nation state before they start teaching you. Because
Speaker 1: if you've got your head full of all these other
Speaker 1: ideas that you know, cloud your vision. They want a
Speaker 1: pure nation state before they teach you that you can't
Speaker 1: have any other pollution there.
Speaker 4: This meat might be a little bit esoteric, and I
Speaker 4: don't know if it's tangential or not, but there is
Speaker 4: the symbol of Father Time and the Virgin, and and
Speaker 4: it's very hair oriented. And this whole, the whole hair
Speaker 4: symbolism that has been a strand excuse the pun, through
Speaker 4: through this whole discussion. He father Time is playing with
Speaker 4: the Virgin's hair, and Father Time of course being associated
Speaker 4: with Saturn, so it's a it's also a very hidden,
Speaker 4: supposedly Freemasonry symbol, so was making making for.
Speaker 1: Where you're talking about that. So you've got this Virgo
Speaker 1: character and then Father Tom is right behind her, and
Speaker 1: he's got the sickle in his hand and he's touching
Speaker 1: her hair exactly exactly. I mean, that's the symbol for
Speaker 1: fates right there. So you've got the strands of fate
Speaker 1: in your hand. And it turns out that hair is
Speaker 1: actually piezo electric as well, so it carries sort of
Speaker 1: this the stress that you've got in your body. You know,
Speaker 1: can cause your hair to fall out, you know. So
Speaker 1: the idea there is that these fates are intimately linked
Speaker 1: with how you perceive the world.
Speaker 4: And she's reading a book too, and which has all
Speaker 4: kinds of you know, Ad Jason symbolism, the Book of Life.
Speaker 1: And so forth. So absolutely so much imagery that they're
Speaker 1: trying to condense down into that that one form, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think this goes back into dreams as well.
Speaker 1: If we really want to get a handle on our fates,
Speaker 1: we've got to understand our dreams a little bit better.
Speaker 1: And you can see all throughout the years, these the
Speaker 1: fates are always connected to these prophetic dreams that we have,
Speaker 1: and you know, you have to kind of understand the
Speaker 1: information being transmitted in dreams so that you can get
Speaker 1: a better grasp on your fate and where you belong
Speaker 1: in the world. I think bridging that gap is what
Speaker 1: we can do by knowing ourselves better. Right, And Virgo
Speaker 1: is often seen holding the cornucopia or holding a bunch
Speaker 1: of you know, staves of grain. I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: it would be called staves, but you know, the stalks
Speaker 1: of grain. So Virgo is very, very linked to this
Speaker 1: this wheel of fortune and this fad idea. But you know,
Speaker 1: all these all these symbols seem to condense and come
Speaker 1: back together again. It's almost like we're not looking at symbols,
Speaker 1: We're looking at sort of the water, and as it
Speaker 1: flows between these symbols, you can understand them better because
Speaker 1: the replacement is how they are interpreted. And this would
Speaker 1: go back to the idea of the ship, you know,
Speaker 1: the argo and all of those things sort of coming
Speaker 1: together and having this idea of to have balance is
Speaker 1: to have that rudder of the ship and to be
Speaker 1: able to control it. And the rudder is also a
Speaker 1: symbol of Tiki, right, the winds of fortune, the winds
Speaker 1: of fate steering that ship is also associated with that
Speaker 1: Tiki goddess. But it's so it's so intrinsic and it's
Speaker 1: so connected to all these things that you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's hard not to understand how it applies to everyday
Speaker 1: life here for us, but you have to kind of
Speaker 1: put the pieces together to really understand it. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: virgo hair, that's the hair of fate and what the
Speaker 1: hair weave is strong. Absolutely, you know, it's it's kind
Speaker 1: of funny. For some reason, it just popped into my head.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen those videos of the guy who's
Speaker 1: got the leaf blower and he comes up behind these
Speaker 1: women who have an obvious weave on, and then he
Speaker 1: just points it out and he blows their hair off.
Speaker 1: They run down the street try to pick up their hair.
Speaker 1: It's that same kind of pool slash teaky sort of
Speaker 1: narrative going on there. You know, the hair is your fate.
Speaker 1: But I think this is a good episode. I mean
Speaker 1: it's a little bit short, but.
Speaker 2: Oh no, this is actually perfectly.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I prefer episodes actually the short, but it just never
Speaker 2: works out that way.
Speaker 1: Just keep going weave.
Speaker 4: It's such a real fascinating topic and the lessons are
Speaker 4: very inspiring, I find so that was that was awesome.
Speaker 1: Very tied to all of these symbols. We know, but
Speaker 1: do we know where they come from? And once you do,
Speaker 1: you could see how they're all linked together, and how
Speaker 1: they were worshiped and practiced and all the rest of
Speaker 1: this stuff. You know, these are these are the things
Speaker 1: that make up the Western perspective. And if we don't
Speaker 1: have the ability to take hold of these concepts, we're
Speaker 1: gonna be faithfuol. You know, there's some good, good stuff
Speaker 1: in nations. You know, maybe if we didn't know this
Speaker 1: stuff would be better off and be luckier. Who knows,
Speaker 1: have more beginner's luck. Yeah, well you wouldna finish this
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 2: Nick, Yeah, sure, sure real quick for the people that
Speaker 2: are catching it live now, maybe people that might rewatch
Speaker 2: the live because this won't be out before Friday, at
Speaker 2: least for me. For the people watching Thursday, you know whatever. Thursday. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we're gonna have Mario on the Occult Rejects and it's
Speaker 2: gonna be us again with a couple extra people. And
Speaker 2: last time I went real well, so keep an eye
Speaker 2: out for that. Headless will probably restream that on his end. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: I have a strike and that's why I'm not streaming
Speaker 2: live right now, so keep an eye out for that.
Speaker 2: We will be streaming live with Mario Thursday night. It's
Speaker 2: gonna be a bunch of us and it should turn
Speaker 2: out really well because the last time we had the
Speaker 2: whole Occult Reji crew there, it actually went really smooth
Speaker 2: and there was a lot of information, and this one's
Speaker 2: gonna be Mercury, so you know, it's gonna get wild.
Speaker 2: There's gonna be a lot of stuff so keep an
Speaker 2: eye out for that. Uh and thank you headless. This
Speaker 2: was a great topic. It was really interesting. Again, I
Speaker 2: knew I didn't even know who this person was when
Speaker 2: you text me. I had a I googled the person.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, but you met before.
Speaker 2: I know what you say for sure. But thank you
Speaker 2: very much man. It was again it was It was
Speaker 2: kind of by surprise and it worked out really well.
Speaker 2: Looked like the chat enjoyed it too, Ethan. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much, man. It was such spur of the moment.
Speaker 2: I asked you like literally hours beforehand, and he's like, sure, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think I can add something else.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 4: I'm always honored to talk with you, guys.
Speaker 2: I love I love yeah, yeah, no, I love always
Speaker 2: getting you on with this man. It's always great to
Speaker 2: hear your point of view of stuff, of stuff. It's
Speaker 2: what's appreciate it, like everybody else that we have on.
Speaker 2: So yeah, US three and a couple other people will
Speaker 2: be on with Mario Thursday night and uh yeah, that's
Speaker 2: the end of another I guess cult rejects and until
Speaker 2: the next one, everybody be well later.