1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: This is pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets. 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 2: Welcome to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio. This is 3 00:00:11,199 --> 00:00:13,599 your host, Tim Link, and I'm super excited that you 4 00:00:13,679 --> 00:00:15,880 joined us for today. I've got a great, great show. 5 00:00:16,039 --> 00:00:18,359 I'm gonna be picking the brains from one of the masters. 6 00:00:18,359 --> 00:00:21,760 Of course, we're talking about Patricia McConnell, who's an internationally 7 00:00:21,839 --> 00:00:25,239 acclaimed animal behavior is. She knows everything there is about 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,359 the animals, and then all of a sudden she comes 9 00:00:27,399 --> 00:00:31,000 out of nowhere with a novel talking about animals. Of course, 10 00:00:31,399 --> 00:00:33,240 so we're gonna talk to Patrician a little bit about 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,200 her new novel Away to Me, and of course we'll 12 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,280 pick her brain a little bit about writing writing styles. 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,280 How's it different to write a novel compared to some 14 00:00:42,359 --> 00:00:44,280 of the other books that she's written to help us 15 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,200 out with the animals. So it's going to be a 16 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,640 great time and you're gonna learn a lot and it'll 17 00:00:48,679 --> 00:00:51,479 be a lot of fun. So everybody, hangtight, Welcome back. 18 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:52,759 Speaker 1: Right after this commercial break. 19 00:00:53,039 --> 00:00:56,159 Speaker 2: You're listening to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio. 20 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,439 Speaker 3: Say goodbite out of your compition, advertiser and business with 21 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,640 an ad In pet Life Radio podcasts and radio shows, 22 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,599 there is no other pet related media that is as 23 00:01:08,719 --> 00:01:11,760 large and reaches more pet parents and pet lovers than 24 00:01:11,799 --> 00:01:15,719 pet Life Radio with over seven million monthly listeners. Pet 25 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,840 Life Radio podcasts are available on all major podcast platforms, 26 00:01:20,079 --> 00:01:23,040 and our live radio stream goes out to over two 27 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,879 hundred and fifty million subscribers on iHeartRadio, Odyssey, tune In, 28 00:01:28,079 --> 00:01:31,159 and other streaming apps. For more information on how you 29 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,879 can advertise on the number one pet podcast and radio network, 30 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:41,239 visit Petlife Radio dot com slash advertised today, Let's. 31 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 4: Talk pets on petlifradio dot com. 32 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the animal rights on Petlife Radio. Join 33 00:01:49,719 --> 00:01:54,319 us now is Patricia McConnell. She is the internationally renowned 34 00:01:54,359 --> 00:01:59,879 animal behaviorist. She is professor, and she's a super duper author, right, 35 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,840 and she's got a great new novel out called Away 36 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:03,159 to Me. 37 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: Patricia, Welcome to the show. 38 00:02:05,359 --> 00:02:07,159 Speaker 5: Oh, thank you for having me. What's fun? 39 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: Oh? 40 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: Well, we're super excited to have you because obviously I 41 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,719 know your work from the animal behavior standpoint and some 42 00:02:12,759 --> 00:02:15,919 of the things you're doing on the teaching people about animals, 43 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,159 the zoological things you've done, all your best known and 44 00:02:19,199 --> 00:02:22,240 best renowned books. And then I get a note from 45 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,800 your publicist and editor saying, Hey, I would you like 46 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,159 to have Patricia on the show because she's got a novel, 47 00:02:27,439 --> 00:02:30,520 a new novel out A way to Me, So tell 48 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,439 me a little bit about first of all, away to me, 49 00:02:32,479 --> 00:02:35,520 and then we'll get into the particulars about the writing 50 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:36,960 and writing styles as well. 51 00:02:37,439 --> 00:02:40,879 Speaker 5: Yeah, sure, A Way to Me is you know really 52 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,960 the elevator sends is that it's a novel about a 53 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,520 woman who risks her life to save a dog. That's 54 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:47,719 sort of what it gets down to. 55 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:48,479 Speaker 1: Wow. 56 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 5: The longa version is the protagonist is Maddy McGowan, who 57 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,479 just happens to be an animal behaviorist parentheses write what 58 00:02:56,599 --> 00:03:00,520 you know, and she is reeling after one of her 59 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,960 few dear friends is killed at a sheepdog trial. She 60 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,719 has a little farm and sheep and she's starting to 61 00:03:06,759 --> 00:03:10,039 compete in sheepdog trials and she's devastated when one of 62 00:03:10,039 --> 00:03:12,520 her few friends because she tends to sort of stay 63 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,280 by herself and push people away, but he's killed a 64 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,599 sheepdog trial, and so she's recovering from that. She fosters 65 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,120 a dog from a shelter, sort of a mess, but 66 00:03:22,479 --> 00:03:25,240 they're both doing better, and then she goes home to 67 00:03:25,319 --> 00:03:28,280 a farm one day and one of her beloved dogs 68 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,360 is gone, just gone. I think every dog owner could 69 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:38,479 imagine you walk into the house, right, and where's the dog? Yeah, 70 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,199 and so she's and by the way, just another parentheses. 71 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,240 I had to argue with my editor about this, but 72 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,719 no dog dies in the making of this novel. 73 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw. 74 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: I thought excellent. 75 00:03:50,439 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: Excellent because even in fiction, we don't want to see 76 00:03:53,039 --> 00:03:56,960 that the dogs are any animals, right. 77 00:03:56,879 --> 00:04:01,159 Speaker 5: And so so given that, still there's tremendous drama and 78 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:04,000 she basically risks her life, ends up in a with 79 00:04:04,159 --> 00:04:08,439 a romantic twist with a shelter worker, and you know, 80 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,080 the drama ensues from there. 81 00:04:10,639 --> 00:04:13,159 Speaker 2: It's really fascinating to me in the fact that there's 82 00:04:13,199 --> 00:04:14,960 a lot of different angles here. And I love what 83 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,680 you said about write what you know. Obviously you know 84 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,240 about animals, and you know about dogs and particular breeds 85 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,000 in particular that we talked about that you obviously have 86 00:04:24,079 --> 00:04:27,639 in your furry family. But how did you wrap around 87 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,360 all the ideas of the book. So what I mean 88 00:04:30,399 --> 00:04:32,279 by that is, you know, you definitely got to have 89 00:04:32,319 --> 00:04:34,439 a heroin or a lead person in there. You've got 90 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,680 to have some dogs, because whenever you add dogs, it's 91 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,319 immediately best seller right there, That's what I say. And 92 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,000 then you tie in some a little trist on the side, 93 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:44,680 a little bit of this, a little bit at How 94 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,480 did you concoct that stew and decide. 95 00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:48,879 Speaker 1: What you're going to put in there to create such 96 00:04:48,879 --> 00:04:49,560 a great novel? 97 00:04:49,959 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 5: You know, good question, because it took a while for me. 98 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,480 You know, I set out to just play with writing fiction, 99 00:04:56,639 --> 00:04:59,920 almost as a fun game for me, and I was over. 100 00:05:00,519 --> 00:05:03,040 I wasn't seeing clients anymore. I'd stopped traveling around the 101 00:05:03,079 --> 00:05:07,240 world getting speeches, and I just wanted to write something fun, 102 00:05:07,639 --> 00:05:10,079 and so I just started with the first chapter. But 103 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,560 then I got I really got into it, tim, I 104 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,560 really got into how do you write, you know, a 105 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,639 hero's journey? How did people write these novels where it's 106 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,639 one in the morning and you're like, I can't stop reading, 107 00:05:22,759 --> 00:05:23,199 damn it? 108 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, how you do that? 109 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 5: So I started getting into learning how you do that? 110 00:05:29,079 --> 00:05:32,759 I read every book there is I read. I've always 111 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,839 read a lot, and I've always loved mysteries and fiction. 112 00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:38,199 So I read and read and read and read. I 113 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,839 went to some seminars at the Medicine writing Studio. I 114 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,759 have lots and lots of help, and so I worked. 115 00:05:45,319 --> 00:05:48,680 The hardest part for me was creating a plot. And 116 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,800 I'd write a chapter and then i'd get rid of it, 117 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,560 and then I'd write two chapters and I'd turn it 118 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,720 into one chapter, and then I'd changed the characters. So 119 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,959 I did what apparently is really common in fiction is 120 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,879 you start and always need to know the end. You know, 121 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,680 who did it when you're writing a murder mystery. Well 122 00:06:04,879 --> 00:06:10,000 I didn't. I didn't. I did it pass backwards. I 123 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,519 just started writing, and as I was writing, I'd be like, oh, oh, 124 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,959 this has to happen. Is that going to work? I 125 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,199 don't know, let's try it. So it wasn't not a 126 00:06:20,879 --> 00:06:25,000 s beauty process, but it was really fun and I 127 00:06:25,079 --> 00:06:29,240 learned a ton and I learned. I have so much 128 00:06:29,319 --> 00:06:32,639 respect now for people who write great mysteries and great thrillers. 129 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,199 I'm just the skill involved in doing that just blows 130 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:36,680 me away. 131 00:06:36,959 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 2: It's night and day, it really is, you know, and 132 00:06:39,319 --> 00:06:41,800 if obviously I've had to show for quite a number 133 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,680 of years and I write, you know, interview people that 134 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:48,120 write fiction and those that write nonfiction, and very few 135 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,000 bleed over from one to the other. I will say 136 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,480 that because it's a different carriage. It's just like asking 137 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,680 someone who writes it's a great mystery or in a 138 00:06:56,759 --> 00:06:59,600 novel or anything to do with fiction, to now start writing. 139 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: Okay, what do you know? What do you really know? 140 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:02,600 What is your expert? 141 00:07:02,879 --> 00:07:05,519 Speaker 2: Tell me about how to write? Sort of like what 142 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,560 you said. And that's a whole new ball game to 143 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:09,920 teach the message across, to be able to teach people 144 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,240 these lessons on how to do it, and whether it 145 00:07:13,399 --> 00:07:16,160 be about animals or how to write in this case. 146 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,839 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I can actually think of an analogy from 147 00:07:18,839 --> 00:07:21,199 my own life, and I'd never thought of it this way, Tim, 148 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,959 but you got me thinking. You know, I worked as 149 00:07:23,959 --> 00:07:28,000 an animal behaviorist with companion dogs, usually with serious behavioral problems, 150 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,000 some cats, a few horses apparent or two, but mostly 151 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,639 I work with aggression because that's mostly what behaviors end 152 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,480 up seeing or else severe fear of phobias, thunder phobia, 153 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,199 et cetera. But for my hobby, like Naddy McGowan in 154 00:07:42,399 --> 00:07:44,959 Who Lives a Lonely old Farm, and as an animal 155 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,160 behavior as both of us started dabbling in running dogs 156 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:54,160 and sheep dog trials, and it is fascinating running a 157 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,399 sheep dog in a sheep dog trial competition. It is 158 00:07:57,519 --> 00:08:01,360 incredibly difficult. You have to make a billion decisions every 159 00:08:01,399 --> 00:08:04,000 tenth of a second, which is not which is not 160 00:08:04,639 --> 00:08:07,480 my best skill. Although I could work with really aggressive 161 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,600 dogs and read their faces and have less of the 162 00:08:10,839 --> 00:08:15,000 tenth of a second to respond, but that didn't necessarily translate. 163 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,839 So I became a good intermediate handler. But to be 164 00:08:19,959 --> 00:08:23,439 a really great cheap dog handler competitor in cheapdog trials, 165 00:08:23,639 --> 00:08:25,560 I would have had to have not written the novel 166 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,079 or have a garden, you know, because I would have 167 00:08:29,199 --> 00:08:31,399 to have done it, Like that's my passion to be 168 00:08:31,519 --> 00:08:34,320 good enough, and I really wanted to write a. 169 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,399 Speaker 2: Novel, right right. 170 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 5: But it was sort of the same thing as one skill. 171 00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:41,159 People used to come up to me and say, I 172 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,240 can't wait to watch you run because I know you'll win. 173 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,720 It's like, no, no, this, you know, what I did 174 00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:49,519 in an office with a dog who bites the neighborhood 175 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,039 kids is not what's going on out here. 176 00:08:52,159 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: Right right? 177 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,279 Speaker 2: I mean in competition especially, I mean you have to 178 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,639 work hand in paul for months, if not years, with 179 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,960 a particular animal become one, so they not only know 180 00:09:03,039 --> 00:09:05,240 your voice commands, but they could fill your energy, they 181 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:06,879 can feel your movements whatever it may be. 182 00:09:07,759 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, you have to have the experience where you've just 183 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,399 done this over and over and over. You have sort 184 00:09:12,399 --> 00:09:15,120 of a muscle memory, you know, where you don't have 185 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,639 to stop and think about should I stop my dog now, 186 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,399 should I pause him? Or should I send him left? 187 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,200 You know, what should I do? It was like, you 188 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,480 shouldn't have to stand there and think about those things 189 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,159 because by the time you've got the answer, it's too late. 190 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:29,639 Speaker 1: That's it. That's it. 191 00:09:29,799 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: And even in the title of the book, away to 192 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,120 Me that has something to do with it, explain that 193 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:35,559 a little bit it does. 194 00:09:35,879 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 5: Away to Me is a queue to a sheep dog 195 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,879 to go counterclockwise around the sheep. But it's also a 196 00:09:43,919 --> 00:09:49,120 metaphor for Mattie McGowan. Mattie McGowan is she stays in 197 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,159 her lane pretty much. She's pretty closed in. She talks 198 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,159 about rarely something quote that happened in New Mexico, but 199 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,000 she doesn't want to talk about it. But Maddie is 200 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,919 sending out mixed signals because she pushes people away, but 201 00:10:04,639 --> 00:10:08,200 deep inside. She really wants them to come to her, 202 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,799 to me away to me, And I'm working on the 203 00:10:11,919 --> 00:10:14,960 second book. This is hopefully a trilogy. Oh yeah, it 204 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,519 has come by, which means go counter go clockwise around 205 00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:24,159 the sheep. But it's the same metaphor. It's come bye bye. 206 00:10:24,519 --> 00:10:27,080 But the last book, if I live long enough to 207 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:32,000 write it, tim is that'll do, And that'll do means 208 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,039 thank you dog, come back to me. Your work is done. 209 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,480 And that's when Maddie's going to get it all figured out. 210 00:10:37,759 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: Very nice, very nice. I love that. 211 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 2: I love the dual meaning behind it all, and I 212 00:10:42,519 --> 00:10:44,480 definitely love the fact that it's going to be a trilogy. 213 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:46,480 So it means I get to see your lovely face 214 00:10:46,519 --> 00:10:49,279 and hear your voice a couple more times down the road. 215 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,519 Speaker 1: So that's exciting too. Well, tell me a. 216 00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 2: Little bit about more about Maddie, because I know from 217 00:10:54,639 --> 00:10:56,799 reading the book and then reading a little bit about 218 00:10:56,759 --> 00:11:00,679 the bio in the background, is you really came attached 219 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,720 to Maddie and really became part of who you are 220 00:11:04,799 --> 00:11:07,080 in your fabric of who you are as a as 221 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,440 a writer and as a person. 222 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 5: You know, I've read about this, but it's you know, 223 00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:15,480 it's always different when you read about it versus when 224 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,440 it happens to you. Is I became really fond of 225 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,840 all the characters in my book. You know, Maddie and 226 00:11:22,879 --> 00:11:28,039 her best friend Dorothy, and this guy she starts hanging 227 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:33,360 out with, and George, who is who is her dear friend, 228 00:11:33,399 --> 00:11:36,679 who is actually shot at a sheep dog trial inexplicably 229 00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:41,879 who who she grieves over. It just tremendously. So it 230 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,279 really is true that it happens that you get so 231 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,279 attached to these people that you write about that you 232 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,039 feel like they're in the same room with you. They 233 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,600 do sort of become their own people, and it's really 234 00:11:56,279 --> 00:11:58,639 weird and fun and interesting. 235 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: And I think it's a sign a great writer, to 236 00:12:01,159 --> 00:12:03,440 be honest with you, when we're talking about writing a novel, 237 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,720 is become, you know, creating characters that not only your 238 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,840 reader will connect with, but that you connect with and 239 00:12:09,919 --> 00:12:12,919 really become part of who you are. Because, like you said, 240 00:12:13,159 --> 00:12:14,960 you know you're going to write three of these books. 241 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,679 So some of these characters, hopefully we'll stick around, maybe 242 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,240 some will leave. And how do you choose who leaves 243 00:12:21,279 --> 00:12:24,360 and who you know sticks around? Because believe me, your 244 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:26,720 fans if you leave out a character they love in 245 00:12:26,799 --> 00:12:30,559 the second one, Oh boy, it's. 246 00:12:30,399 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 5: Certainly going to be there, without question. She's spoke through 247 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,759 line through the whole books, and Jack her Borri Collie 248 00:12:36,879 --> 00:12:40,600 absolutely will be there and Bo Pepe, the sheep guarding dog. 249 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:41,960 Nothing's gonna happen to both. 250 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 2: Pepe, I promise, love it, love it. So we're gonna 251 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,960 look forward to that for sure. Well, we're gonna come back, 252 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,200 read his commercial break and talk a little bit more 253 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,320 with Patricia McConnell a little bit about the contained about 254 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,480 the book away to me, and then talk a little 255 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,159 bit more about writing and how does it compare writing, 256 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,960 you know, nonfiction to fiction, How to compare being a 257 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,480 TV superstar and an adjunct professor. Wow, a lot of 258 00:13:06,519 --> 00:13:08,639 hats going on here, So everybody hangsight. 259 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: We'll come back right with this commercial break. 260 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 2: You're listening to Animal Rights on Pelatic Radio. 261 00:13:15,879 --> 00:13:17,799 Speaker 1: Real people, real stories. 262 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,159 Speaker 6: Our little dog developed this loomp problem at the chemotherapy 263 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,840 lasted for six months, started developing more lymph nose, so 264 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,240 I thought I'd just try carnivore. If the lymph nose 265 00:13:27,279 --> 00:13:29,279 started to go down, then I took him into the 266 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,480 vet to him checked out and there was no signs 267 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:32,200 at all inside. 268 00:13:32,279 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 7: My god had issues that developed in his height. And 269 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,159 three months later my ven airing said this, go ahead 270 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,960 and remove the eye. I heard the Carnivore on advertising, 271 00:13:40,159 --> 00:13:41,799 so I said, you know what, I'm going to order 272 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,320 this product. They did the procedure, they did all the 273 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,159 death and they said, I don't know what you did. 274 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,519 Speaker 5: This product they had eyed. 275 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 6: I've got a labrador. 276 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:52,519 Speaker 5: You could hardly lift yourself up off the floor. 277 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 6: The treatment list came to therapy. That's when I said 278 00:13:55,399 --> 00:13:56,399 this could be the ticket. 279 00:13:56,519 --> 00:13:59,399 Speaker 5: About three weeks you could tell she was very alert. 280 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 6: Is going on by my walk like crime again? 281 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 5: Well? Eight six six eight three six eight seven three five. 282 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,360 That's eight six six eight three six eight seven three five. 283 00:14:10,759 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 6: Or visit carnivore dot com. That's c A r N I. 284 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: V O r A dot com. 285 00:14:16,039 --> 00:14:20,039 Speaker 2: Use promo code pet Life at checkout for fifteen percent 286 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,320 off your order at carnivora dot com. 287 00:14:24,039 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: Let's talk past it, Let's done, pet Talk about. 288 00:14:26,559 --> 00:14:28,279 Speaker 5: Life Radio HEATLFE Radio. 289 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 4: Pet Life Radio dot com. 290 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: Welcome back to animal rights on pet Life Radio. Tenure 291 00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:43,000 conversation with internationally renowned animal behaviorist and author got the 292 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,799 latest novel away to me? Now, Patricia, when you sit 293 00:14:47,919 --> 00:14:50,960 down and you wrote your first novel and you say, 294 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,320 I'm glad that's done, but I'm super excited for the 295 00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:56,039 next one. What do you hope the readers get out 296 00:14:56,039 --> 00:14:58,080 of it? Why do you think their walkaway is going 297 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,480 to be that? You say, Hey, at spot, that's what 298 00:15:00,519 --> 00:15:01,600 I hope to accomplish. 299 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 5: Well, First, I hope they feel like they read a 300 00:15:05,399 --> 00:15:09,480 really good story, you know. I hope they don't want 301 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:12,240 to stop turning the page. I'm sorry, but I hope 302 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,200 they stay up at night, and then when when they're done. 303 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,440 What I hope is that they are as fond of 304 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,679 Mattie McGowan and want to know what happens to her 305 00:15:19,799 --> 00:15:22,440 as much as I do. And I'm not sure everything 306 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:23,919 that's going to happen to her. I have a lot 307 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,639 of ideas I have started the second book, but that's 308 00:15:26,679 --> 00:15:29,600 what I hope. I hope. I hope people really like 309 00:15:29,679 --> 00:15:32,799 her and are interested in her world and her life 310 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,080 and what want her to find what she really really needs, 311 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,960 Because isn't that every story? I mean, this is a 312 00:15:40,039 --> 00:15:42,919 kind of a hero's journey, right, you know, every man, 313 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,519 every woman some faces this huge, massive, epic kind of 314 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,960 problem and you know, has to risk their life to 315 00:15:50,039 --> 00:15:53,399 try and work through it. Right, But we all have, 316 00:15:53,799 --> 00:15:55,840 all of us, all of our lives are really a 317 00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:59,240 kind of a hero's journey. We're all seeking, we're all searching. 318 00:15:59,279 --> 00:16:02,960 We're all faced with issues and problems and you know, 319 00:16:03,039 --> 00:16:05,240 things we have to deal with. There's a book that's 320 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,000 got It's a New York Times bestseller called The Correspondent, 321 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,960 and it's a brilliant book. It's not an animal related book, 322 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,200 but it's a brilliant book. And at the end of 323 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,600 the book, the protagonist, who is an older woman, says 324 00:16:17,639 --> 00:16:20,960 something like, it is astounding how much life throws at you. 325 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,360 And I think we all feel that way. And so 326 00:16:23,559 --> 00:16:25,879 in a way, Maddie is us. You know, we all 327 00:16:25,919 --> 00:16:29,559 have things that life throw us, throw at us, and 328 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,879 we all want to rise above them. And so so 329 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,879 that's the question. So does Maddie, you know, does Maddie 330 00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:39,720 ever become sort of the whole person that she could be. 331 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,279 I'm rooting for her, That's all I can say. 332 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: I'm rooting for her too. 333 00:16:43,679 --> 00:16:45,559 Speaker 2: I love that, and I love the fact that that 334 00:16:45,679 --> 00:16:49,240 statement because I will say that before we started the show, 335 00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:51,639 I was talking to our producer, Work Winner about life 336 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,879 and how things you know throw at you and people 337 00:16:54,919 --> 00:16:58,799 you know, and looking back on life, how it's exciting 338 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,000 but it's different maybe you expected, but yet it's ever 339 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,519 changing every single day and you just got to roll 340 00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:06,960 with it and have fun with it. And now it's 341 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,039 time before the break. Now, obviously you still got a 342 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,119 lot going on and a lot to do, which is fantastic. 343 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,039 But you know, you've had a lot of hats that 344 00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:18,079 you've worn. You know, you've taught people from a behavior 345 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,519 standpoint through all the wonderful books and the consultations that 346 00:17:21,559 --> 00:17:24,400 you do. You've taught at the university level as well. 347 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,839 You have appeared on TV on Animal Planet teaching people there. 348 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,000 So you did a lot of teaching and now you're 349 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,119 teaching people in a little bit different way. When you 350 00:17:33,319 --> 00:17:37,400 say by having a new novel out, yeah. 351 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 5: And you know, I'm so glad you brought that up, 352 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,400 because I've been doing as one does, right but when 353 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,119 their book is coming out. I've been doing a lot 354 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,200 of interviews on podcasts, which has been really fun. And 355 00:17:47,519 --> 00:17:50,119 one of the things that's been so gratifying him is 356 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,920 that a lot of people I'm talking to on some 357 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,160 of the dog related podcasts are primarily there are many 358 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,079 dog lovers, but also lots of dog trainers and lots 359 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,000 of animal behaviors. And I have heard so many people 360 00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:05,000 talk about what a joy it was for them to 361 00:18:05,079 --> 00:18:07,720 feel seen, you know, to read about what is it 362 00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:09,880 like to be an animal behaviors? What does it like 363 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,440 to be somebody who sees clients? 364 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:11,839 Speaker 2: You know? 365 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,839 Speaker 5: What is it like to see somebody whose dog bites 366 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,599 the little girl next door you know, and the couple 367 00:18:17,599 --> 00:18:21,279 are fighting about what to do about it. People tend 368 00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:24,720 to think that we spend our time running through fields 369 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,880 of daisies with Golden Retriever puppies. 370 00:18:27,319 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 3: You know. 371 00:18:28,279 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 5: One of the people all the time are like, oh, oh, 372 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,599 your job's sound so great. I wish I had your job. 373 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:36,000 It is great, but it's really hard. You spend a 374 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,440 lot of time with people in tremendous trauma and despair 375 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,720 and lots of problems. So it was really fun to 376 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,440 see other animal behaviors go like, this is what my 377 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,640 life is like. I'm so glad to read about that. 378 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,440 So hopefully people who aren't in that world will enjoy 379 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,279 getting getting a window you know, into into being an 380 00:18:57,279 --> 00:19:00,960 animal behaviorist, living in the country in Wisconsant with sheep 381 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,000 and competing in sheep dog trials, which you're really exciting. 382 00:19:04,039 --> 00:19:06,720 It's a really cool sport. That's a whole other world 383 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,279 that people can be introduced to too. 384 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love the fact that early on in 385 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,720 our chat tonight we talked a little bit about you know, 386 00:19:14,319 --> 00:19:17,079 to me, it's like you, this is another hat that 387 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,160 you put on and they're continuing to build upon it. 388 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,759 I see these lovely feathers coming out of that hat. 389 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,200 You jumped in feet first said I'm gonna write this novel. 390 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: I think I'll be fun. 391 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 2: But yet you did your homework, did your research. I mean, 392 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,119 it's not as simple. I wouldn't think unless somebody knows 393 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,039 more than I do, you can't just set out your typewriters, 394 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,079 we'll say, and type out a novel without doing that research, 395 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,960 that homework, learning from others, reading other books, going to 396 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,720 clubs and groups to know what you're doing before you 397 00:19:47,759 --> 00:19:51,519 actually start tinkering around with a different genre, or just 398 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,039 to do it as a whole. 399 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, no kidding, you know. I used to say when 400 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,039 I first started doing interviews for this I said writing 401 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,799 a bad novel is easy, but writing a good novel 402 00:20:01,839 --> 00:20:05,519 was hard. Now I say writing a bad novel is 403 00:20:05,559 --> 00:20:09,200 really hard. Just writing a bad one is hard, writing 404 00:20:09,279 --> 00:20:10,200 a good one is. 405 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 2: Really That's kind of love. 406 00:20:13,799 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 5: Good writing and bad writing just hurts my heart. And 407 00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:22,680 I aspire. I aspire to write a book where and 408 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,960 I've been so gratified some people feel a lot of 409 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,440 people have responded that this is how they feel about 410 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,480 a way. To me, you feel like you're there. You 411 00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:32,680 know that you know what it's like to be in 412 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,640 a field in Wisconsin in springtime. That you know what 413 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,200 it's like to be standing in a sheepdog trial about 414 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,200 to run your dog to sheet there are four to 415 00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:42,720 five hundred yards away. You know that you know what 416 00:20:42,759 --> 00:20:45,440 it's like to be working with a client whose dog 417 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,880 has jumped through a second story when no be because 418 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,640 he's afraid of thunder. I've read that that's one of 419 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,200 the things a lot of people like about fiction is 420 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,880 that it often introduces you to worlds you don't know. Yeah, 421 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,200 and so I mean I certainly like that. So that's 422 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,920 very grati find sort of side effects, you know. 423 00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:04,759 Speaker 2: To me, Yeah, and I think it's a wonderful thing 424 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,799 in what you captured very very well in a way 425 00:21:06,839 --> 00:21:09,440 to me is the fact that you took little bits 426 00:21:09,559 --> 00:21:13,039 of your own personal knowledge and professional experience, these type 427 00:21:13,039 --> 00:21:17,319 of things to put people into that on the other hand, 428 00:21:17,319 --> 00:21:19,240 you gave them a little bit of an escape from 429 00:21:19,319 --> 00:21:21,640 it all, and you also gave a little bit about Hey, 430 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,920 I didn't know really all that about you know, sheep herding, 431 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,720 or maybe I didn't know about springtime in Wisconsin. I 432 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,079 thought it was always snow twenty four to seven, three 433 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:29,880 out of sixty five. 434 00:21:30,079 --> 00:21:31,559 Speaker 1: No, it's not. It's lovely up there. 435 00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 2: So I think you did a great job of blending 436 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,880 all the things that you know, bringing some new things 437 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,319 to the table, bringing a little bit of learning to 438 00:21:40,319 --> 00:21:41,799 it as well, and captured it. 439 00:21:41,759 --> 00:21:43,519 Speaker 1: All in a in a great way in the book 440 00:21:43,559 --> 00:21:44,039 A way to me. 441 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,319 Speaker 5: Thank you so much, well, Patricia. 442 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 2: Where can people find out more about you the book 443 00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:51,519 where you're going to be, How they can learn more 444 00:21:51,599 --> 00:21:52,799 and all that wonderful stuff. 445 00:21:53,039 --> 00:21:55,319 Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you. They can just go to my website. 446 00:21:55,319 --> 00:21:57,839 It's just easy. Go to my name, which is Patricia 447 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,720 McConnell dot com, and you can go to the events 448 00:22:01,759 --> 00:22:03,599 page and here I am going to be on book 449 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,559 tour in Wisconsin and Texas, and you'll be able to 450 00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:11,279 order my book from that website or anywhere you order books. 451 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,839 Jump on. There's some reviews and there's some excerpts from it, 452 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,799 so you can jump on my website learn a little 453 00:22:16,839 --> 00:22:18,440 bit more about it and see if it's a book 454 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,359 that you might want to stay up a little too 455 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:22,839 late at night with. 456 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,079 Speaker 2: Maybe that's it. You will definitely do that, So be 457 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,400 prepared by taking nap before you go buy the book, 458 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:29,880 and then you'll be ready to go because you'll be 459 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:30,880 staying up all night. 460 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: Of course. 461 00:22:31,519 --> 00:22:34,759 Speaker 2: It's a way to me by Patricia McConnell. Patricia, thank 462 00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:37,279 you so much for coming on the show. Congratulations on 463 00:22:37,319 --> 00:22:40,279 a great success and we'll look forward to chatting with 464 00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:41,480 you again somewhere down the road. 465 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 5: Thank you so much. It's my pleasure. 466 00:22:44,039 --> 00:22:45,839 Speaker 2: Well, we're coming to the end of the show today. 467 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,079 I want to thank everyone for listening to Animal Rights 468 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,559 on pet Life Radio. I want to thank the producers 469 00:22:50,559 --> 00:22:53,200 and sponsors for making the show possible. If you have 470 00:22:53,279 --> 00:22:56,680 any questions, comments, ideas, or want to let us know 471 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,359 who you want to hear from the most on the 472 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,200 show so you can drop us a line and to 473 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,519 petliferadio dot com. I'd be glad to answer your questions, 474 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,759 entertain your comments, and. 475 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: Bring other people you want to hear from most and while. 476 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 2: You're there, check out all the other wonderful shows and hosts. 477 00:23:10,519 --> 00:23:16,039 It's a cornucopia barking, meiling, cackling fund that's a pet 478 00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:18,839 life Radio dot com. So until next time, write a 479 00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:20,759 great story about the animals in your life. 480 00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:22,799 Speaker 1: And who knows, you may be the next guest on 481 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,079 animal rights on pet Life Radio. Have a great day. 482 00:23:26,839 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 4: Let's talk Pats every week on demand only on petlife 483 00:23:31,559 --> 00:23:43,079 radio dot com.