Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the five hundred
and fifty ninth episode of the Keepers podcast. No wor
it's is that mindscript? Yeah? Sorry, the six hundred and
fifty ninth episode of the key First podcast My Bab
We're round up on a seven hundred.
Speaker 2: Here, I am the Puwboy five and fifty nine asterisks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I'm the Pewboy Captain Tress
now and I'm joined by.
Speaker 3: I'm the midfield pooper kirkln Pat Sir, I am the
full and the Fields unless.
Speaker 1: Yes, Ladia, maybe haven't guessed by your nicknames. We are
talking about you know, MSU's back, much anticipated. We only
got a couple movies until doomsday, and this is one
of them. We're talking about Thunderbolts AK thunderbolts asterisk. So
uh yeah. As usual, we're gonna break it down. We're
gonna have you, gonna give you our nonsport thoughts, so
in case you're seeing it later or maybe you're undecided,
this whole portion will just be our thoughts, surface level stuff,
nothing too specific, give anything away. We'll take a break
and then we'll tell you a little bit about ourselves
and where you might find some other stuff that we
do and then we'll get full into spoil So do
you have an ample amount of time to back out
or just pause and come back, because we're always here.
That's why you should subscribe because at any point, you know,
someone like myself, I listened to podcasts today that reviewed Craven.
I still not seeing Craven, but at some point you
can come back to it, you know. So maybe you're
not gonna see thunderbustl Disney. Plus, we'll be here waiting
for those ear holes. But mister patz Er, what did
you think of Thunderbolts overall? Non spoilers?
Speaker 3: Yeah, easy answer. Did I have a better time with
this one? Yes?
Speaker 4: I did.
Speaker 1: Also, that's worried me for a second.
Speaker 3: I went to the Craven, you know, side tangent. I
went to Craven with someone that really enjoyed it. So
it was it was an interesting because I was sitting
next to someone that was thoroughly enjoying it, laughing at
all the jokes, and I was just completely into a
different ball camp there. I was not having a good time,
But here we are with Thunderbolts Asterix. Yeah, No, I
had a really good time with this film. I think
coming into it, my expectations were, you know, at the
end of day, I just wanted to enjoy the chemistry
of these people together, of this band of misfits. I
feel like that's really what they were promoting, like it
to be is just like a rag tag rag tag crew,
and I think they completely passed the assignment there. I
thought it was really fun. There was a lot of
jokes that were obviously shown in the trailers, and I
was surprised some of them, like they actually got me
even though I was like so done with them by
the trailer viewing. I just feel like the build up
of the actual scene or maybe I just maybe it
was just the atmosphere of the crowd because I a
pretty full crowd, and I want to say, like eighty
five percent of the jokes were just hitting so hard
with my theater, Like it was a really lively crowd.
Everyone was having a good time, so it was just
overall a fun time. There was clapping and cheering like
in the credit, so I was, uh, yeah, it was.
It was It's good to be back in this like
you know, positive MCU sphere, where like the just certain
energy in the theater. So yeah, no, I really really
had a good time with this one. I do recommend
it to people. It's funny just talking about uh, you know,
no spoilers, of course, but just comparing this to something
like Captain America, where in my mind I feel like
Captain America should have been so much more significant than
what it was. You know, people I went with tonight,
I told them they didn't have to watch Captain America.
And I'm one hundred percent right by after I've seen this, Like,
there's really not.
Speaker 1: Catch up in the first ten minute center bolt thing
if they break down at.
Speaker 4: Everything they missed so like and then happened.
Speaker 3: I leaned over, I'm like, this was in Captain America, Like, okay, yeah, no, perfect,
there's no answers left out or anything like. It's yeah,
it's uh, it's a little bit sad actually the insignificance
of that movie just in retrospective, but uh, I think
there's yeah, there's a lot of good just build up
stuff in this film moving forward in the MCU and uh,
cas was great. Pew was just man like so fantastic.
I'm so glad to be getting Yelina back on screen.
Here a long time coming. But she was fantastic. No,
I think everyone really shined except for a certain task master.
But we'll we'll get there. They did what everybody they
did what I wanted to do with that character.
Speaker 4: I'll leave it there.
Speaker 1: Okay, don't spoil what happened.
Speaker 4: The worst secret.
Speaker 1: It's not like Disney would hopefully advertise what's happening with
that character. Uh. Yeah, No, it's funny if we're doing Goes.
It's like with Captain America. You could literally watch the
first ten minutes and last ten minutes this movie and
they tell you everything you need to know what happened
from Captain America, like Sam's motivations and what happened to Sam.
That's it. You're done, Like it's literally done there. But uh,
mister Muss, did you enjoy this war in Craven?
Speaker 2: I did, and I you know, Craven's fine. It's a
fine enough movie. I suppose. Yeah. Uh the Bolts where
to start?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 2: I think when we talk about these specifically these kind
of team up or more ensemble movies like most often
like The Avengers, but even like Civil War and other
ones in the mix, whether it's like in the moment
or when it gets like Golden Geeks time or even
we're just looking back on them. It's always like, oh,
this is like this character's movie, like Infinity War all
this this is like Thor's movie or Endgame, this is
this is Tony's movie, and you know, this kind of
changes and like naturally when you have big casts like
this and this one's smaller than Avengers, of course, it's
not gonna be like equitable between all the characters. And
that's fine because if it was like evenly spliced between
all of them, then you would just get like half
step growth for each of them, and we wouldn't really
get that far. But it's better to you know, focus
on one or two or three characters and really give
them them time to shine. And for me, this was
Elaine's movie, This was Florence Pugh's movie, and I could
not be happier about that. You know, I didn't really
know what to expect from this. It seemed like, you know,
she's front and center on the poster, which you can
sort of see with our YouTube background here, so it
makes sense and given like some of the characters and
like connections that she made has with you know, a
couple of them, I suppose, but it was really her movie,
and Florence Pugh is obviously just outstanding actress and she's
given like the writing is fantastic and she's able to
nail all that. She goes to some I don't know,
darker or more like personal places that we don't often
get in an MCU movie, especially one that I thought
would be, to Kirklin's point, like a ragtag maybe more silly,
silly movie, you know, less serious, less meaningful in the
overall MCU arc. But like that's not really what this
movie is. Actually is a lot more important than I
was maybe expecting it to be. And she's like as
the leading the front runner of the movie, she really
just absolutely brings it so really really thrilled about that.
I think, you know, the rest of them get some
good stuff in there. There's one character that I think
is pretty clumsily done, but even then I wasn't too
bothered by. It's more just like in hindsight, I'm trying
to piece the puzzles together and they don't fit quite right.
But then everyone else, you know, I have good enough,
decent enough time with the humor for me worked probably
like ninety five percent of it really landed, which for
an MCU movie, that's like a really high ratio. And
there are a lot of swings in here, and you
know from the trailers and even just other newscasts and
stuff like not a Red Guardian fan. I don't like
this kind of humor, but you know what, he worked
for me. Yes, he is annoying, and I do find
him annoying, but that's like, you know, to some extent,
it is intentional that he's an annoying character. But I
liked his stuff and Kirk Kirklin' same as you like
jokes in the trailer that I was like, ah, John
Walker's like back of the Limo joke, Like it's fine.
But then in this like I chuckled. I liked it.
My theater, I didn't have as many people, so it
wasn't quite as lively as yours. Unfortunately it was just
me and my own little world and my own little
void there. But yeah, the humor worked. I think the
action's like really great in this movie. You know, we
get a couple like bigger scale things, but mostly it's
like smaller you know. Obviously it's a lot of hand
to hand combat, which they joke about in the trailers,
but I think a lot of like fun action scenes
to mix it up as far as you know, you
got to have that stuff in an MCU movie. And yeah,
I just think in in terms of like what we
were going for with emotional depth, I feel like this
did it kind of does set it's set itself apart
from some other MCU movies in a pretty unique way.
And then yeah, just some wild stuff at the end
of this movie that makes it really exciting for the
overall state of the MCU and all that. So I
really enjoyed this movie. It's not perfect. There's just so
many characters and a couple of them a little maybe
under baked, but like, honestly, I don't really have any
major complaints that more just be kind of nitpick level stuff.
So I'm coming out of this like I was excited,
and I'm like I was even you know, excelled past that.
So really really good job.
Speaker 1: Nice. Yeah, for myself, I've been quite on the journey
with this movie because I remember when we did the
car like Caramels. Every Marvel comic con we do a
you know, a podcast break that down, so you know,
cheap plug for July when that happens. I remember it
was announced and I think we were there, Taylor and
Chris and Brandon. We were more on the pause the side,
because I remember the whole internet being like, look at
this ross. This fucking sucks, like all the powers and whatnot.
But I was always like, I love all these characters.
And we got that first trailer and I absolutely loved it,
and then ever since then, the teasers, the trailers, I
was getting less excited. And when we did the Predictions
cast a couple of weeks ago, I just remember being like, yeah, like,
of course I'm excited to extend because Florence Peugh, you know,
go back all the way to midsmar when me and
Dylan talked about like I always say, like she is.
She's a top three actress right now. It always depends
the ranking wise, but in the world she's up there,
and she's one thing that even if this movie was
Craven Morbius level, she could carry a great performance out
of it, right where maybe you know, some of those
other Sony Marvels not so much. So there's a base aspect.
I was to be excited, but I was just not
getting there. So I sat down, Ye I got seventy
five percent full theater. They were really enjoying it. And
I hate to be the guy to do this, but
I just got to be a boring and agree with
these two gentlemen right here, because this was a fucking
fantastic time. I don't believe in the you know, like
it's a meme, right the ms us back. We see
that all the time where it's like, I don't know,
since No Way Home, that happened, right, And then every
year and a half we got a couple of bad
projects and it's like, oh, Doctor Stranger, oh Dead Pum Wolveren,
It's back, right. So I'm not gonna say that, but
this is definitely the most like Phase three MC I've
felt in quite a while. And the best way to
describe it is has Phase three quality with Phase four,
specifically Phase four experimental stuff, because when you look at
Phase four, they were trying some new stuff like with
wan Vision and even with Moonnight, were Wolf by Night,
even Eternals, right, they were trying some very different concepts
and I think they learned unfortunately that maybe the mainstream
audience isn't wanting that. But at the same time that
I think they overcorrect and just made just kind of
like box office slop, whether it's the TV show or
the movies, where it's just like just action and you know,
cgi and whatnot. So I think they're trying their best
to course correct and that's where it's funny creaking you're
talking about Captain America. That's where you can see a
difference of a movie that finished before the strike pretty
much and then a movie that finished after the strike.
Because me and Delan were talking about this off air,
it feels like we'll talk of the n Chris, but
it feels like with Cap Daredevil dis and leading up
to what we're getting definitely feels like when the strike
was happening. I know no one was allowed to be working,
but they were working and they were going, yeah, we
really got to fix some shit here. And I'm not
saying with Captain America they fixed it. I think that
was an attempt to try and fix it. We talked
about how choppy that movie was, right, but I think
this was the benefit of it got to go after
the strike, and it's one of these things that it
had time to settle on. I'm hoping, as I'm somebody
always as Avengers as fucked. I'm really hoping between Daredevil
and this shows hey, they can kind of course correct.
I don't really count dead Pull Wolverine because I think
that's his own separate beast, you know, Like I feel like,
even if I he was involved, I would have trust
Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynels to make a great combo movie,
right cut Figy of course green lit it. But this
for me is a much bigger win. And even with
like cap it's like, okay, that's a past dared Devil.
It's like, Okay, there's some great stuff here, maybe season two.
This is the first project in a while that's like
I said, not you know, you know, Deadpool and stuff
that is just start to finish in the MCU, Like,
oh man, this is just a great time. It works
the third act. I can't wait to talk about just
incredible stuff. When the MCU has had so many ship
end of the World like blaw third acts that really
mean nothing, Like can you guys, I guess, like, what's
the third act of Captain America?
Speaker 3: They get the red guy?
Speaker 1: Yeah at all? But you took a second to think
about it there, right, and it's okay, he's gonna and
I like that battle.
Speaker 2: To leader, he's a yeah, leaders walking around, He's like zapping.
Speaker 1: People and you know I'm behind it all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, sidewinds long gone by.
Speaker 1: But he's still making calls. He's like, I'm watching you, Cup.
But uh no, the third act for MSU, I'd have
to wait till I don't know when this will be.
But as far as third acts, this is a top
five to me. Reminds me of Civil War, where it's like, Okay,
yes there's fighting, but it's in a much different context.
And what is good as it's not the action driving
the scene. It is the characters motivations, their emotions driving
the scene. And that Civil War, right, that is, Tony
finds out that Bucky killed his mom and dad, and
now it's happened. Tony in a fight for Bucky's life,
and there's all these dynamics, right, and this doesn't have
the weight of that, but it's in a similar ilk
And I absolutely love that. All the great or all
the team dynamics were great, the chemistry was great. I
think this I wish this movie was longer. I think
we're missing out on a few more scenes of the
team together. I think it is comparable, and I think
people are right when people compare this to like this
is if you have the Infinity saga and the Multiverse saga.
This is the Guardians Galaxy of this saga where it
is a bunch of ragtape people, but it works most
of the jokes. I think I agree Dell, and I'm
in the ninety five percent. My theater was loved the
whole time, So for me, I think you could have
used a little more because with Guardians it was also
just like two hours, same run time. But the thing is,
this one's introducing a lot more characters and just a
lot more things because Doomsday is right around the corner
right where Guardians is really just hey, it's a solo ventresce.
So I wish this was like a two twenty or
two twenty five because there's just certain scenes where there's
a scene of because it was a scene where it's
John Walker, y Elena and Ghosts, they're just around talking.
It's like, oh, I could use even more of this
in a good way. Right if it felt like The
Three Spider Mans where it's like all this stuff is
all working, it just feels like cause they've been promoting
this movie and you can see it. It just feels
like these actors, whether it's true or they're just great actors,
feels like there's a genuine connection here right where I
feel like there's so many times we've seen team ups
where people put together it's like, ah, this isn't really working.
And my last week before we get into spoilers is
like Captain America or I think some other projects from
Phase five, they'll throw out like something political or some
adult problems, but it's really just surface level, like a
couple lines are given to it and that's it. This
feels like it's actually more again in the Wanta vision Elko,
like it's dealing with mental health and depression and even
like suicidal thoughts in a very superhero round about way
where it's not gonna look at you and say hey, kids,
like get some help call this line, but it means something.
I don't think it hits the level of like a
Black Panther the way it tackled like racism and colonization
all that stuff. But I think it's like just a
couple tears low that which is great because like look
at Captain America, they try and do the whole like
Bucky comes and makes a speech about like, yeah, you
know you gotta black man. Being cap is tough, you know,
and then like Bucky leaves you know whatever frame and
they have one scene where Isaiah says something and then
Isaiah's locked away for a whole movie. Right, So I
feel like, and there's other projects like that where this
really dives into that aspect, And yeah, this is a
movie I think for multiple reasons, we're gonna spoilers. I
get we had COVID, I get we had the strike.
This should have been way way earlier, in my opinion,
we should have Thunderbolts too. By now. I think even
stuff like Julie Luise Dreyfus, who's a great actress, I've
not cared about the vow character at all up until now,
and this movie is like, oh, I'm actually not invested
where I need a Vowel show or a TV show
or a movie. But it's just like, oh, I would
like to see this character again. The movations make a
bit more sense here, where the past like three years
has just been her popping into a show for five
minutes and that's all we get. Right, So this definitely
feels like this should have been a like Phase five
number one movie, like even earlier than that, because they
know we had Black Widow. But there's no argument, right,
because we had fucking Phase one had all Ironman thor
Captain America, and then we got Avengers movie. Right, there's
no reason you could have done Black Widow, felt win
you Soldier and then right away do this movie. I
think this movie should have came a lot early, especially
for like task Master and Ghosts, like you think the
GA remembers who ghost is probably not. But uh I
this gives me great hope, and I really hope that
I hope that I hope if I have issues with
this movie, I think my other thing is some pacing.
Sometimes it feels like we're going on like a slow
Oh here's some character owans, and then it picks right
back up and to a lot of speed and it
doesn't feel like it's a natural shift. So it's not
a perfect movie. But even if Avengers is around this quality,
call me a pig and shit because like obviously we've
gone a lot of iffy stuff the past couple of years,
and no, this was great and it blew my expectations away,
where like Cap was like, eh, I'm semi excited for
this and like that was like, yeah, this is all
right where this movie was going. In felt all right
about it and it was fantastic. So h S Bubbs
and the chat saying you love the third act and
all the main crew had a great chemistry, and yeah,
I agree. So yeah, it's gonna be a fun time
and I'm very well. I was almost gonna say spoiler.
We go S Bubbs and couple of the chat for
spoilers right now of course. Yeah, if you're live, don't
look in there, and we won't talk about that stuff
too in spoilers, you know. And that's what we're gonna
do right now, unless you guys have anything to say.
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
Speaker 1: No. I like the music. That was good song locks.
I had some good music stuff in there. Great that
we had the writers. Keep this team whatever you do, phase,
whatever the next song is, director writers from Beef, keep
this team around, whether it's Thunderbolts two or something like. Yeah,
they got the juice here. So I want to say
and stream, We're gonna take our first at.
Speaker 4: For it twice. Now you've almost done. That's cool.
Speaker 1: On this is the Twins, I play in the Twins.
Speaker 2: Big red button looks too.
Speaker 1: It is. It's like totally that button. But all right,
we're gonna take our first AD break and then we'll
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And I'll be excited for next after nine to talk
to everybo about this movie. Can't wait to talk to
Pansy because I was like, watching this movie, I was like, man,
she's gonna be like, there's gonna be a storm brew
in that theater as a big Sebastian stan fan, because man,
she is like he's looking alone. Yeah, there's that kitchen
scene where he's in the tank. Top's like, man, he's
looking good.
Speaker 3: But yeah, in this movie, I'll say that.
Speaker 1: But we'll wait. But the end credit hair that.
Speaker 3: Was got like when it comes all sequence, all of.
Speaker 2: Them except you know, maybe right Guardian Valentina knows how
to recommend a haircut apparently exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we will get there. But yeah, go check
that out and if not, just describe on video or audio.
We very much appreciate it. We review all this type
of stuff, review MCU, DCU, Star Wars. I guess we'll
be doing comiccong We'll be here for all of it.
If you like this review and you're like, man, I
hope they review, you know, we'll be around for Doomsday.
We'll be there for all that. So yes, let's get
into this thing. To patron producers thinking of kirkla On,
Aaron Brain, April Darkness, Jack Grant, Samsho and Mike God
Loves Me sixty nine, Jeremy Renner and Charlie Rantell, that's
the best here because you can get everything early, even
exclusive stuff. You get behind the scenes stuff. You get
to recommend movies and stuff, and a lot of good
stuff on the producer here and you can pick a movie.
We won't promote that in a while, but you can
pick a movie. And yeah, tons of shows on the feed.
Go check those out. So Thunderbolts, where did we even
actually begin in this film? I'm trying to think.
Speaker 2: You're laying on her little heist up on the rooftop,
standing on the ledge.
Speaker 1: Yes, which I'm gonna say this right away before I
forget it, did you guys when you're watching it, catch
like the the background void kills in the scene in
that scene. Yeah, so later so later on when they're
in like the big dream sequence thing and Ylane is like,
I've been here before. When she's talking that scientist, it's
all taped up. She's looking at the gerbil in the
background on the wall, you can see the like the
people that yeah, yeah, sorry, I don't know how to discribe.
Speaker 2: I think even when she's up on the building roof,
void floating there.
Speaker 1: That's crazy but very nice to touch right away, so like, oh, okay,
that that's cool and that's gonna come back later. So
which I think this movie.
Speaker 2: Which I wish I like. Obviously there was shown in
the trailer and that's a cool thing to show because
that shot looks great when it's just like the silhouette
version and he's doing a little powers. But yeah, I
think that, you know, it was almost like a precursor
because we've seen the trailers. But if not, I'd be like,
what the heck is going on in that room?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean I just want to shut that up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just since you're talking about it, I feel like
all of the just the power set of what was
shown with Century in the Void was just outstanding. I Like, yeah,
we had seen people just turning into darkness in the trailers,
but to actually get it with like the audio effects
and even like before, he's really utilizing the power fully
when they're having those little glimpses of like whether it's
like Elena and him like touching hands and then there's
just like a little bit of darkness shadow like creeping in.
I thought all of that was just expertly done. And yeah,
just like the whole thing around this character of the
Century and being like the Villa or you know, the
opposing force for our heroes in this film, Like, I
just think they tackle it in such a good way.
For you have like a basically Superman power set, right,
like how do you tackle those characters? So you enter
the psyche realm and I thought all that stuff was
super super fantastic. But yeah, definitely shout out of just
all of the effects on like how it's being utilized.
Speaker 4: I think I had a little bit of.
Speaker 3: Mike feelings around the character because I wanted to just
learn more about what the character even is, Like why
is he the Century? Why is the void attached to
this character? They they they throw in there that it's
he obviously is like a victim of abuse and like
all of those things coming in so we're a math addict. Yeah,
I kind of forgot about that detail, but like it's
it's just the way it's showcased in the film is
that that void is kind of just coming from inside
of him. But is that like is that just a
I don't know anything about the Century other than Marvel
snap and this now and I yeah I knew ter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, so I can't answer those, but I I
don't know if it works say way in the comic books.
I imagine it does, or it's just like you know,
comic book gibberish, But in here I took it when,
which I feel like we've gone this line so many
times when I was like, you know, but the super
Soldiers hereim Steve Rodgers, get Captain Erica Man. How many
comparisons have been made. But I think that's what they're
trying to show is the void just exists because he's
a broken person and he's like try to like dis
a show, disassociate himself from the pain. And I think
that's what the void represents. So I feel like, sure,
that's like an OPI God to your power of like, man,
you just put some super so juice with some depression,
look what happens. But I think that that they're trying
to stretch to is because he does suffer from this
mental state, it's created this dark realm, which is, you know,
not good for the other people.
Speaker 2: That's definitely how I read it too. And on top
of that, it's like, oh yeah, this he was not
like the finished product, right, Like he was still like
just one of the test subjects and so like this
was not perfected. And you know, given that he's like
a meth addict, Like there's clearly like a cocktail going
on here that they probably weren't expecting, Like I don't
think they were thoroughly vetting people, right, they were just
it seems like they were maybe just taking anyone off
the street. But I wonder if that was like part
of the idea, is that somehow the seium that they
were giving these test subjects was supposed to like enhance
their features. So if you're like a good person, you
become like an all good person, you know, in that
godlike sort of way. But then when you have someone
who has this like deep depression of this dark side
of them, and how he talks about how it's something
that he like kind of comes back and forth from
where like he has a couple of good days and
he has like long stretches of bad days and then
he just forgets everything, and like, yeah, you know, you
catch them on like a bad day, you're gonna get
that too. But like the way I was reading it,
and I think, you know why this movie is one
of the reasons it's so great, is like the similarities
they're drawing between Elena and him, and then you know
the other characters have that too, but you get a
lot more depth of those two characters. But like the
way I read it is like, yeah, if you pump
that into Elena, like the very same thing would have happened.
Like I didn't see it as like some other worldly
like what is that from the from X Men animated show,
like the Shadow the Shadow King or something like. I
don't think it's like a shadow King type entity, right, Like,
I think it is just that part of your humanity.
But when you, you know, put these insane level of
drugs and then it's like the science is not very good.
You come up with this like really messed up creation.
But to me, I was reading as like, yeah, other
people could have this void inside them too, And I
think Elena, you know, at the start of this movie
or like in her past also that would have happened
to her at that time, but maybe she's a bit
more well just so now if even if she's still
kind of recovering.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's where I said the nonsplos, that's where
it's literally an allegory for depression, but just using superhero jargon, right,
Like the void is literally just the way when he's like, oh,
I'll have a good day, but then like lots of
bad days, and Elena's expression both times when at first
it's like oh, just push it down. But then when
you go to full circle, like that's the wrong way
you need to let out talk about be with people,
And he's like, oh, is that gonna make go a way? No,
but it's a little lighter and man, I like the
whole third act we talk I guess we can talk
about because kind of time with that. I I don't
I know Dylan hasn't Kirkland. You never played Arkham Knight,
did you? I don't think I can't remember the third
one that's the third one played, but that it's not
the same like the Void everything, but that's the same
thing where it's bad versus Joker, but it's just purely
mine mental stuff and it has that good combination of action,
thrill and horror. I loved everything about as far as
seeing like you know, Elena's whole journey. But again, the
last shot where you can literally look at it's like, Okay,
it's Bob about lose himself and they stop him from
beating himself down. But it's not that. It's about these
people helping raise him up and be with him. Right,
So it's like you look deeper into it, and I'm
not saying it's like a super cell move. I'm just
saying that if you're not watching out for you might
just go, oh, they stop Bob from committing act of murder.
It's like, no, it's not that it's all of them
because it's not like they're even holding him back. They're
hugging this dude, you know. It's it's not like a
like Civil War where they're trying to space apart. It's
and that's what I loved about it, And it just
felt like man, and it did like, you know, honestly
similar Guardians where they like, you know, grab hands and stuff.
But I think it did in a way where it
didn't feel like, oh, this is a rip off of
Guardians and they're trying to evoke that. It feels like
it is similar to that, but in a different version.
That was about a bunch of losers finding each other
and being like, oh, I could have some friends. This
is a bunch of people that have like the same
are similar afflictions, right because like you said, Don like
ghosts and John like we get some stuff, but we
know enough, Like Okay, Walker's clearly depressed and deflecting because
he lies about everything. And then once it's the Truce review,
he flips to be in a nice guy. Even Elan's like,
oh you're mister nice guy now. But the second everyone
knows about his wife and kid, his guard's completely down
and he is more like I can't remember something happens
to Red Guardian and he's like standing up for him
or he's trying to look out for me. I can't remember.
It's just super like and I get it because they're
both Discount Captain America's but it's.
Speaker 3: Like Caleen is like shit talking all of them and
she's like we all suck, you all suck and then
yeah that's when and then she like lashes out.
Speaker 4: It's like my wife and kids, they don't like you.
It's like Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: Yeah, John Walker there is like a good guy there,
but he's a similar thing of like there's some PTSD
and some other stuff, so he is that you know
void per se.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think like that that you know, coming
into this movie, even beforehand, it's like how these guys
can't possibly fight him in a one on one or
even you know where it's five six on one fight,
Like they're just not powerful if no one, like you know,
even the Vengers aren't powerful enough according to Valentine, I'm
sure they would find a way if they tried hard enough. Yeah,
but you know they're not powerful enough, so they have
to like dig into something else. And obviously Elena, through
those like dynamically had with him, was able to kind
of get a read on how he is as a person,
and they shared some of that stuff like way back
when they first recovered and like got it blasted through
the you know, when they were trying to get when
Valentino was trying to kill them in that room, and
then like we're sharing that dream that void space together.
So obviously, like all the way back then they were
kind of building those connections. But I think that's like
such a that's such a great arc for her as
a character. Who's this character who just has such a
troubled past. It's kind of like lost her humanity, you know,
obviously has gone through a lot of these depressive spells
as well. And then like it's great that Red Guardian
Alexa was able to like pull some of that out
of her where he's like, oh, you were like as
a kid, you were such a bright, positive, fun person
to be around, and then like you know, just life,
you know, putting getting put through the Red Room and
all that terrible training, losing your sister, all these things
have like brought these things out of you. But like,
deep down you are this person. You have this humanity,
this positive force, and you got to bring it out.
The fact that she was able to like use that
as the tool to get him back was really great.
And you know, no one else really gets like we
kind of sort of get that arc with them, Like
it's almost like assumed that the rest of them are
having the same arc as well, because like even when
they're in the dream void space, like they all like
went through their different stuff and they're like, yeah, it
was kind of like this, but like we don't actually
get a scene of like what John Walker's rooms look like.
All we saw, you know, one of his with like
this family.
Speaker 1: All timerligne from Bucky though, like oh yeah, I got
no bad memories. I was completely fine. Yeah, like yeah,
this is probably the worst out of like I'm not
saying again bet as a child's dad, but like Bucky
was forced to kill hundreds of innocent people. You know,
he's he's back talking about Civil War. He's back there
right now in that movie. He's see he's seeing Stephen
Tony fight over his arm and stuff.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I just it's just so great that, you know,
we're so deep in the MCU now that like, yeah,
the final fight does not need to end with some
big heroic victory where we kill the enemy. Like it
can just be a deeply emotional thing and there is
still action around it. There's still like high octane and
they're like getting blasted back with steel and like they're
flying through walls and all this stuff. But there's a
lot more to it, and like there's just so many
great dynamics of like that whole void sequence and like
the use of mirrors and not being like the doorway,
and like the kind of reflection of looking at yourself
and considering yourself and who you are. I just feel like,
god damn, there's so much a good imagery in there
as well, just such a freaking great sequence.
Speaker 1: And you're gonna remember that way more than if they
just fought Sentry and beat them, you know, like and
I'm not.
Speaker 2: Saying you got that too, Like you got that sin
and they all get messed up and you still get
like ten minutes of.
Speaker 1: That and like, again I'm not saying you can't have that.
I've always said, just like lead that for the like
that's what I expect for Doomsday. I expect the Avengers
versus Doom, big fight, you know. But when these like
it's not a solo movie, but like in these movies
that aren't the main events, that's when you can like
experiment do something different, because I feel like people will
remember talk about this end or the third act way
more than over half of the MCU because it is
just big being the sky, big CGI guy. We gotta
find a way to punch him harder, and we do,
you know, congrats.
Speaker 2: So I will say to Kirkling, You're point, like I
did want maybe a little bit more of some of
Bob's backstory, like seeing like like seeing more of it, right,
I'm just being told about a lot of it. Now
I can, like I totally understand the motivation in the
arc of the character, like enough of it is implied
that I can pick up on it. But like, yeah,
we got that one scene when he's like Rubuscuban on
the ground, He's like looking through the floorboards and we
can kind of get a shot there and then he
shares like a little bit of information. But for like
the first half of this movie, he's like really guarded
not sharing any information. Whether he actually can't remember or
he's just choosing not to share it. It's probably a
little bit of both, because he's waking up from who
knows how long he's been inside that like cryotube thing.
But I, yeah, I don't know if I wanted like
super depressing scenes with like more of this abuse or
drug abuse or anything like. I don't know what it
would be if you'd need to implem more characters than
they don't want to cast more people. I'm not sure
what it is, but I do think one or two
more scenes there, because Travis, to your point two, like
I think we could use a couple more scenes here,
or we could have cut back on a couple of
other things, which you can talk about later. But yeah,
I think I wanted maybe a little bit more of
his backstorre. Once again, it all makes sense, but I
think a little bit more visual of it could have been.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I'm I'm right there with you. I I
think just I I'm completely in the camp. I think
this could have been a longer film because I wanted
more scenes with John Walker, and like I feel like, yeah,
we got a quick glimpse of him and like his
daughter and his wife in that moment, which was like
a powerful scene, like it really just made you feel awful,
like especially through his eyes. But it just seemed like
we like scratch the surface there and we just never
really go back to that. And each character has their
own type of like I could have gotten a Red
Guardian like flashback of something that he like really regretted,
right like, And of course there's BUCkies, who was probably
the worst room out of out of all of them.
So I definitely at least that we've seen, you know, yeah,
fair enough. I I just would have appreciated that a
lot more to add to the overall We're all like,
we've all gone through these these moments, and I think
it would have just added a little bit more to
that moment when they're bringing Bob back from the void.
But it it still worked, but I think it just
it could have been a little bit better, you know,
the classic uh Waterwoman eighty four Pedro Lane, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like even Ghost you know, it's like I guess since
ant Man two or uh yeah no, yeah, am Manto,
she's just been a contracted killer. But it's just like
and I'm not saying that's not bad, but she also
like chose to do like there's I just I guess
I just don't know the trajectory like a man two
she gets out of there. I don't think there's anything
that she had to be a criminal, like she was
the humanizer in the way that she was in the
tube and all that stuff or whatever lived like grew
up in a laboratory. So and yeah, just even some
stuff like I was hoping to get just just a
few I know, I don't want to be like a
callback movie, but like Bucky, Bucky fucking shot Natasha. Like
they didn't talk once about Natasha with Yolayna really, you know,
like her Red Guardian did And that makes sense right
like father daughter connection. But I was kind of hoping
when her because this is what what was weird is
the way Ylena was talking to Bucky felt like they
had met before and not that this was the first time.
And I want a little more newness to this as
far as like, hey, this is a big deal, like Bucky,
someone that did like sure was the red who's the
Winter Soldier, but like they fought side by side. They
also fond a couple movies like there's some history there.
I like the ones saying we got a Red Guardian
and Winter Soldier, But again, I think we could have
used more of those, and I don't think that would
have hurt the movie of more stuff of backstories, because
the same thing, like, so does John Walker? Did he
get his wife and kid back? You know? Like, I
don't think we're gonna pause in Doom's day to answer
that question. I could be wrong. Maybe we pick up
and he's at home and he picks on the phonies
with this kid, right, but I would have liked to
have seen that. My fingers crossed, because who knows how
this is gonna do. My fingers crossed is that we
do get a Thunderbolts too, and we can spend more
time and like, sure he could add some people too,
but I really don't like maybe one new member, but
I don't really want that because I feel like there's
I'm not saying they didn't completely scratch the surface with this,
but I feel like there's stuff they left on the
table that could have even been in this movie, which
I think they should do because you never know what
if this movie makes two dollars and we never see
the thunderbolts again, and it's like, oh, that was our
one shot, you know, because even with Guardians, it felt like, oh,
there's more ventures. But it felt like after Guardians won, okay,
I got a sense of all these people, and I've
seen Rocket interact with everybody. I've seen interact with everybody,
where this still felt like there's lots of stuff on
the table in a negative way, not a huge negative way,
but just in things that feel a little empty, and
like I said, some of that pacing where it just
feels like we kind of jump very quickly to set
up stuff like we're not gonna get there yet because
the end Chris, but just stuff like the huge thing
happens in Valatina has the whole press behind like a
fucking curtain, and it's like this feels weird, like why
is no one like what did I just go? All
these people are on the void? Why aren't they freaking out?
Why is it like like they would have had these
experiences right that they're seeing bad shit in their life.
I imagine it just feels weird that literally five seconds
I was like no, no, no, get the cameras and like
we're gonna beat you up, like here they are. It's
just like, oh, like there's no other way you could
have done the scene, like the next day or something.
So there's multiple kind of cuts in the movie that
fuel that they they were just rushing a bit. So
mm hmm.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I to see more on Ghost a little
bit because unfortunately I don't think there's like much to
say about her, you know, just wanting to have her back.
I think the actress does a good job, but yeah,
I think we could have used a scene or two
and like, once again, you can't you know, the more
you add like every character if you flush them out
as much as like Elena or Bob, like your movie's
gonna be like four hours long, which we wouldn't want.
Maybe we would want that, but not everyone would want that.
Speaker 1: Release the Bolts cut.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I feel like I feel like I need
a little bit more, whether that's like filling in the
gaps a little bit, seeing like a little bit more dynamic,
because yeah, we know that she was like a test subject,
and we know that she was pretty much being like
just physically tortured by her own body for years and years,
so we can like understand where this stuff is coming from.
But I think a little bit more of like what
she's been doing since then orright, it was like I
was a bit surprised at like was that a super
public event? Some of the things in that too, like
everyone knew who she was and like I was kind
of surprised about that as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I guess it has been like six seven
years since then, like an MCU time, right, because the
endgame five year jump. So I guess like it's just
known that she's a assassin hit man person like she's been.
I guess she's been operating for almost a deck, Like
I said, seven years, three years, shy of a decade,
but again, there'd be it'd be nice to have some
That's why I just wish again this movie was earlier,
because if this movie happened relatively right after him and
be like, Okay, well, actually, I guess I wouldn't answer
your question Dylan with like how would they know her?
Speaker 2: So I mean, yeah, like it's I can, you know,
piece together enough and it's not like a huge leap
of logic to try and understand that, But it's just
something I would like to see, and that's you know,
that's like good grounds for a sequel thing, like maybe
she could really step up and be a bigger part
of it of a sequel if we get that and
focus more on her character. And I would be down
for that because I think she does a good job.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh, my interest definitely peaked on the ghost character. I
I it's been a long time, you know, coming, but
I finally care about this character. I also had no idea.
Her name was Ava star Star with two RS, which
I feel like is borderlining, like a little bit of
a porn star name.
Speaker 1: It's a porn for sure. Search a star right now
in X videos and see what comes up. I won't
screen share.
Speaker 3: It could be like Thunderbolts trailer. Yeah, but no, I
I I thought just showcasing like her, her power, like
her kit. I guess here was just it was just
pretty badass.
Speaker 4: And I don't know.
Speaker 3: It was just she had good chemistry, like I like
the back and forth that she had with everyone was an.
Speaker 1: A right, yea, yeah, there's an Ava Rachel Star.
Speaker 3: So there you go, shouts out to her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, go check her out.
Speaker 2: I wonder if she can go invisible to.
Speaker 1: Support the sex workers while she should do a parody
of Thunderbolts. Perfect casting right there.
Speaker 3: Right there, right off the success title exactly.
Speaker 1: I should I picked the wrong industry. God.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the the the chemistry because you know, going back
to Hawkeye of all things, like we everyone loved Elena
and Kate Bishop like that duo. The chemistry is so
much fun. These two girls just like really great dynamic together.
And I feel like Ghost definitely picked up that slack
and that was my favorite stuff, even if that wasn't
like super deep character backstory stuff, but the two of
them and how they kind of like butted up and
were like picking on John Walker, like like tell tell
us about your your helmet or your hat and or yeah,
tell us about your hat and he's like, you mean
you mean my helmet and you think it's good, right,
Oh you think so? Yeah, that's great, or like talking
about like his gun and like I don't know, just
like little barrel.
Speaker 1: Right, like just.
Speaker 2: So sarcastic, and he's like not able to pick up
on a lot of it. But I think those two
had like a particularly fun dynamic together.
Speaker 1: And this is why too, because when they did the
whole chairs thing and everyone's mad about all these names
still being alive, right, except one we'll get there. But
I was like, oh, they're probably doing that because like
I bet Red Guardian Ghost, they're probably gonna eat it
in Doomsday. Now, I really don't want that to happen.
I hope they get like snap killed or taken off
the board, but I hope my prediction was wrong that
oh we're gonna lose. They established the Thunderbolts so we
could lose them in Doomsday. And I really don't even
John Walker like, and I continue to love John Walker.
I watched Falcon Were Soldier like for Cap. But man,
this is good because like the first like the first act, Okay,
in the show he is an asshole, but the first
act he's like mega asshole. He's never that way in
the show. He's the guy like things go over his head,
he says some stuff out of context that doesn't sound good,
but like he's trying to do well. But the first
act's like, no, this guy is like piece of shit
type of villain. But then you can see why again,
like we talked about earlier, he's just kind of deflecting
and he just he just feels bad about everything. He's
just there, Yeah, exactly right, because everyone just looks at
him like worse than Red Guardian as far as like, well,
unfortunate for a Guardian. Half the people don't know who
he is, and a good in a good way, like
when in val it's like who are you? He's like
the red already and she looks legimly is just so confused.
Good job on Dreyfus there, But yeah, so that's just
my point. I really hope that they don't just kill
off these people, like I do want to see more
of the team and I'm I am worried, come next me.
Speaker 3: One of those goos, I would say one of them.
Speaker 2: For sure, it goes to Red Guardian because Red Guardian
making a sacrifice for the team.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can see John Walker thing happening, but I
I would I would only want that if we get
like a follow up with his family, like I would.
I would like to be like at the funeral, it's
they do too late.
Speaker 4: That'd be so sad.
Speaker 1: They do the Tony funeral from endgame, but it's for
John Walker and all the heroes are standing there and
like hath them don't know who John Walker is. He
brings Steve back. But that's what I really fucking want man,
I want Rod, I want I've always pitched this old
man Steve to go through the time machine and be
young again. And I need a scene of Steve Rogers
and John Walker. I fucking want that so bad now,
especially because he's more on the hero side. But and yeah,
I didn't, like you said on spoilers, I was really
worried about Red Guardian, and I think just Red Guardian
works better in live action when David Hater who is
David Hater?
Speaker 2: Who the David Hater is a guy for sure, So
David Harber isn't Isn't David Hater like the voice of
Solid Snake or something?
Speaker 1: Wow? I don't know, like it would make sense because
I played that game a bunch of as kid, But
that just doesn't.
Speaker 2: Sound David Hayter is the voice of Salid Snakes.
Speaker 1: Okay, so there you go. My something was baked in
my mind. So good job. So David Harbor, shout it,
David Hater. That great voice. Dave Harbor. Though Red Guardian
for me, just works so much better in live action
because I feel like Harbor can bring the nuance to
that character that lot like the animation stuff We talked
about and what if and other stuff you just you
just can't and he does get to the point of
being too annoying. And not that the what if writing
is the best, right, but this reminded me of oh yeah,
I did love him in Black Widow, where stuff like
when we got Korg again in Love and Thunder, it
was like, oh yeah, I don't want any more Cork,
Like I'm good of Doom like kills Cork right away, right,
But with this, I was like, no, I do like
his relationship with Elena, and I do like Harbor in
this role, especially that scene when he does give this speech, Dylan,
your tell about the light thing, like that was so
good by Harbor of just like when she's like, my
first mission was killing a kid and he's like he's like, oh,
I know, because he like, he didn't select them for
that program, but he didn't not help them, right, like
fuck those kids up because he was there to train
them to be assassins, right, and he just thought he
was doing good for his country. But you can just
see the regret on his face when she's talking about
having to have another killed, another kid killed, and it's
just that scene was fantastic, And again even the beginning,
the humor was working there for me. So yeah, Red
Guardian back in my good books, and I'm happy because
for a while I was like, Oh, this is gonna
be the tipping point where it's like I don't need
to see like kay Downy Doom just destroy Red Guardian
from everybody. Now. It's like and even in the car
we saw something on the trailer, but he's just like,
we could be a team on the wee box. That
works so much better in the movie than it did
in the trailer. In the trailer, it's like this feels
so forced, and I get what they're going for. But
every time when like Bucky's about to say something and
Ghosts like what does that mean, He's like gory, Like
it's just like he's so forcing the team dynamic. It's
it's fucking so well done all around writing and his acting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the line that was just shown so much in
the trailers was when him and Bucky are driving's like,
what type of superhero seom did you get?
Speaker 4: These? Like a hydra?
Speaker 3: Like I've seen that scene so many times, but in
this like element of sitting down in the theater, man,
I that sequence got me. It got me going good.
And then the other one that really got me was, uh,
He's like, don't drink out the big gulp.
Speaker 4: It's just this mysterious bottle.
Speaker 3: On the floor of his limo, Like I don't even
want to know which is.
Speaker 1: A clean shot. And then they pan up the ghosts
and Walker and they're just like, oh god.
Speaker 2: You know it's good random fun fact. So David Hayry,
once again the voice of Snake, also the writer of
X X men and X Men and X two. Isn't
that crazy? What the voice actor of Solid Snake is
the writer for X Men and X two.
Speaker 1: The games are the movies the movies. That makes no
fucking sense.
Speaker 2: I'm IMDb could be wrong. Maybe there's multiple writers on
X Men, but that's what That's what I'm looking at
right now.
Speaker 3: That's what a career shift. That's impressive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'd be wild.
Speaker 2: My goodness, writer watchman. Okay, now this is getting out
of hand.
Speaker 1: No, it's it's there. He also wrote The Scorpion King
with the Rocks.
Speaker 2: He directed a couple of movies as well.
Speaker 1: Are you sure it's like this is the Snake guy though?
That's what I think I'm.
Speaker 2: Is it? Yeah?
Speaker 3: That's crazy. That is that is something that we wouldn't
have if Travis didn't just randomly drop that name.
Speaker 2: That's a good trivia.
Speaker 1: At some point, he's best known for Snake. That is fun.
What a what a career. You got to write some.
Speaker 2: Super cool movies and that's the most iconic video game characters.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good, good for man. They should get an
MCU hell yeah.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, I think my last thought on Red
Guardian is like, you know, even back to like the
start of this movie, he's in his apartment, he's watching
like the good old Days videos all this stuff, and
he has that yeah are you are you fulfilled right now?
I'm full? I'm filled, which I love that line. But
then it's like, yeah, by the end of the movie, okay,
you have the post post credit, the lady doesn't recognize
him at the store, but like he's say, well he
first he saved a girl and then she got fucking
vank quished, And I was like.
Speaker 1: Holy, just huge gaps in my theater when that happened,
because I think at that point we didn't know they
were still live, so it's like they just killed a
fucking kid.
Speaker 2: It was like the second kid in this movie, by
the way, because another one in the in the Forest
as well. But yeah, then like he gets that moment,
he gets to be a bit of a hero. And yeah,
he's maybe not you know, on the same fame level
as some of these other characters, but like he's building
up towards that, and he might get And that's where
I'm feeling like it actually could be a good way
to like close out Avengers if he does like some
big sacrifice for Elena, you know, specifically something like that.
But yeah, I was surprised at how much I enjoyed
his humor.
Speaker 1: It worked for me.
Speaker 2: Of course he is obnoxious. He he is annoying. Uh,
but you know, I also I think that once again
it's just like lens to why everyone else was so
good here, especially Elena and just kind of the classic
like annoyed at her dad kind of reactions, like when
they're when they're crawling in the sand and they see
the limo and like her face the way she's looking
away just so good. So obviously like Florence p once again,
just you know, rises all tides kind of thing. Or yeah,
so I just I enjoyed his uh contribution here.
Speaker 1: Your father Yolena, it's your father, like all this stuff
like like who is this guy? Yeah, again, that's somewhere
if I was on trailers on paper like all this
might not work. But yeah, that sand calling scene was great.
It's like how do you find the specifically? Who knows?
But I just throw that off the side, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah that that that was the only thing I didn't
love that he just was the limo driver for Valentina
on that one night and then like heard all this stuff.
Was like, Okay, that's a that's a little goofy. I
feel like I would be surprised if Valentine uses random
limo surfaces. I feel like she would have her own crew,
consider she has like a huge militia, Like shouldn't she
have her own cru It's like that guy and not
to spoil an episode of Daredevil, but like the chief
the police commissioner who uses like you know, a random
guy who's like corrupt him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as like his driver and like she's talking about
classified stuff that could send her to prison. You know
that's the thing too or I and I said that
in the Nonspers. I think this movie does that a lot,
where it's like how do we get there. We just
get there and it's like okay. And it's because the
character and the emotional stuff is so good you throw
it aside. But in a weaker movie, because I feel
like that happened in Captain America too, where some stuff
would just happen and you just go okay. I guess
that's the case, and I think that happens quite a
few times in this movie. I think when I rewatch,
like even stuff with like pullman's up there, they kill them,
all right, let's walk away from the spot. I send
up the crew. It's like really and then like literally
it's been twenty seconds and she's like the cleanup crew
since there's no body, it's like what like this Like
that's where it feels like this is chopped to shit,
Like I don't know why. So there's multiple times in
this movie where it's like you it's like when you
replay a video game and you hit skip cut scene.
That's what happens in this movie. You know a handful
of times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, never skip a cut scene with David Hayer though,
because his voice foreso yeah, I know, it's it's like,
you're right, there are those moments. However, compared to like
other recent MCU stuff like Dareduvil, which I do enjoy
a world, but like there's some things in there Captain
America like those you can smell the reshoots. At at
least with this it was like, Okay, if you really
pay closet attention, you can see, Okay, that's maybe a
little bit weird, but it wasn't as egregious as some
of these other recent times ones. And I think CGI
the only CGI beef I had with this movie was
and it's two bad because I really like the scene
overall is a little bit the the fight with all
of them against Century when he's got the blonde hair. Yeah, yeah,
like uh well John Walker in particular, Yeah, he's looking
a little jello, a little jello fed in some of
these movements. And so that was the only spot that
stock up a little bit. Wasn't even that bad. It
was just like a little nitpicks here there. But otherwise,
like Stellar, like the visual effects are really great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially the third act too, Like there's a lot
of like weird stuff popping off there. I mean, I
mention because I I'm gonna forget this for sure. Loved
in the third act when the Ryan Health of Visions
and fucking Bob's abusive dad is like talking to them,
Oh well yeah, and John Walker just fucking knocks him
out with the shield. Oh my god. I was like,
I love John Walker so much.
Speaker 3: Like one of the moment we're like, sorry Tacos with
his fucking taco shield.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, fantastic moment, but yeah, that, uh what? And
I guess we haven't talked about him. Uh, but I'll
say this before we continue. I did really like when
he he dispatches of them easily, right. We talked about
that that's your end fight scene, but it's not really
fight scene. It's just like the you know, one hundred
men versus a gorilla, right, and centuries the gorilla, and
so he takes care of them all. And then and
him and Val are talking and she's like, oh, you're
keep you keep using this god word, like I don't
think you have the right to use that, and I
love it. To me, it was like such a chilling
comeback of well, you said I'm more powerful than all
the Avenders and there's at least one god on that team,
and and I love and that that's when Val was like,
she says like, oh, no, I'm screwed. Like so she
realized like, oh, I'm completely fucked here because he there's
you can't dispute them there. It's like, yeah, Thor is
considered a god, and now you're saying he's stronger than Thor.
It was like, what a great They gave him some
good stuff and yeah, like Louis Polman, I've always liked.
I liked him in bad times of l Royal, like
even top Gun, like I feel like that Bob Rol
like it's fun, but it's like an easy like I
think it's an easier role. Dude. This had like tons
of layers and I absolutely loved it. In one scene,
he could go from being the comedic part of it
to super scary, like the first time him and Pew
touch and Pew goes back to that vision. I didn't know,
is this accidentally doing this or is he playing the
koy villain where he's like, oh, I'm oh shucks, like
it's me. But because he had like a look on
his face where it's like I can't trust this guy.
Speaker 2: And even when he was said yes, I can tell
so many different stories.
Speaker 1: Unsaid, like and even when he was century it was
believable the way he was slipping in and out of
because he's been through so much with his family, with
people turning their back on him all his life. It
didn't feel like mustache toward the powers and now I'm
gonna destroy the world. It felt earned the turn, and
uh yeah, Louis Pullman has definitely like got up a
bunch of notches on my list now like that. Now
it's got the point where when he's casting something, I'll
be excited. Well when his cast is this, I'll be honest.
I was like, man, that sucks because I feel like
that's a step down from Stephen Ewning, because I think
Stephen Ewn is yeah, like Steven Youwton to me, isn't
a top tier class, which, funny enough, though probably good
he didn't do this because this is century is just
invincible at the end, Like there's certain movements that he
does just looks like invincible. He literally says I'm invincible.
So it would have been funny to see him do
like that role. But yes, so it would have been
like weirly weird like fourth Wall thing, but no, loose.
Pullman has a He's ranked up in my opinion now
in the future, So great job by Pullman.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, I think I I found it a
little bit of a like I missed like a half
a chapter when he just went from trying to move
a cup to like fully suit it up and like
knows how to just take on everyone and knows like
like he's just unlocked his whole skill tree in that sequence.
Speaker 4: It was just a little bit of a jump there.
Speaker 3: But like, do I need a segment of like montage
of him trying to learn his powers?
Speaker 4: No, it probably he wouldn't, but.
Speaker 1: It is quickly right because it's within the same day
where he goes, like he said, from cup to he's
like has a whole shield around himself. He's bending knives
with his eyes. It's like that's a that is again
skip a cutscene moment, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I I love the look though he definitely
I'm I'm with you. I didn't really. I loved him
in Top Gun even though he's like a really minor character,
But here it's like, Okay, yeah, this guy's a superhero,
Like I can totally buy it. But then he also
can play the like the timid you know, like beaten
down dog essentially, which what he is like very mentally
unwell something that I feel like it bothers me, but
like I enjoyed it so much I'm able to kind
of look past it. It's it's a trope too, that's
happened many times where you have like, oh, I'm gonna
I have this superhero or basically Superman villain, and I
just everything it's like an attack dog, like like everything
that they do is gonna be from my word and
then no one will be able to stop me. And
this is just like the trope that Valentina became. And
I feel like we've had so much build up to
this character that I was really looking forward to get
a full movie of Valentina, and just the motivation was
just a little bit like eyrolly for me, where it's
like at the end of the day, she just wants
to like she's getting impeached and she just wants this
like killed essentially.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, because if she creates this like new Avenger,
like how could they rest her because she created a savior?
Speaker 4: Right, Well, she broke a lot of laws, that's why.
Speaker 3: And she's she's corrupt and like all these reasons why
she's like being in peach right now. So I just
found it a little bit eye rolly. I think where
it's she just doesn't see any of those factors. It's like,
once I get the Superman on my side, like I'm
just fine. So it just seemed very like shallow writing
of a villain, even though the adventure was kind of ridiculous.
Speaker 4: I mean, like, if you think.
Speaker 1: About Hulk, the second he joins the Avengers, they're no
longer hunting this man down right, It's just like Bruce
Banish destroyed multiple cities, and once he's an Avenger, it's like,
oh yeah, he's fine until we get to see the war.
Speaker 3: But the Hulk is the weapon. He is the valuable asset,
whereas Valentine is not. Like I guess the argument is
that he obeys her, but like that didn't fucking work.
Speaker 1: I think that's what she was going for, right, because
she's like, oh do I look motherly and stuff, So
I think she was going to try and be the
keeper where oh Noan listens. But yeah, it works, it's
just for ours.
Speaker 3: There's like a thousand ways to go wrong, and like
one way that it works, and she's still being under
like this isn't going to fix her legal issues maybe
she thought.
Speaker 1: It did though in the end credit right, we'll wait.
Speaker 4: Which I guess.
Speaker 3: I just also think that's a little bit lazy how
we get to that result. Another thing that just kind
of jumping ship a little bit here, Uh, why do
we have Bucky as a congressman?
Speaker 4: Like why?
Speaker 3: Why is this the thing?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I really don't know why, because
even in Falcon Winter Soul or in cap for I
don't think you need it. I guess maybe they I
get trigt.
Speaker 4: By the setup.
Speaker 3: I'm like, this is gonna be a big thing on Thunderbolts.
But then he's just like he's in a suit and
then instantly he's just the winter Solder on a motorbike.
And then from that point on, I don't think anyone
calls him congressman like the rest of maybe one of
the okay.
Speaker 1: Because v when they're in a Venger's Tower, she's like, man,
only half a term and you're already doing this, Like
what was he quit?
Speaker 4: Like is that what she's I think he'd no.
Speaker 1: I think he'd be disbarred because he's like, that's not
the way he's getting. Yes, he would be taken away.
I think now literally it was just too How can
we explain that Bucky's not in cap for now, like
like as like a fighter, right, Like I think that
because he's trying to be clean Congressman obviously can't be
out there find the Red Hulk. I think it's literally
just they introduced it for that.
Speaker 2: Yes, but also like whether he knows how slippery Valentina
is and she is incredibly slithery and slippery, and like,
I think that's a fun element of her character. But like,
like it seems like immediately as as he gets to Congress,
he's like, okay, let me, let me try and sway
her number two and like I'm gonna, you know, put
some sweet nothings in her ear. It's like, I don't
know what would Like that seems like a really really
risky move in this Congress position against someone like Valentina,
who if like that number two is like a trusting
number two and like shares that information right back to Valentina,
then Valentine is gonna do all sorts of things to
disbarm and peach them whatever it may be, because she's
so good at getting out of things and probably putting
shade on other people, especially someone who has as checkered
of a past as as Bucky does, so that even
seemed like a kind of a weird thread for me,
and I think that's, you know what, We're jumping from
character to character here, but I think that leads to,
like the character of Mel overall in this movie, I
don't really get the point of what was going on here.
And this is something I wonder if this like went
through iterations and imight know we know this character was
like recast like later on as well. And I like
the actress choosing drive Void Dolls. I'm a fan of
her here, but I just feel like we're building so
much up to her like okay, finally turning and like
sharing information or like making that full on like turn,
and then I just feel like she doesn't really get
like an ending in this movie, which I found.
Speaker 1: And then she joins val again because she says yeah,
and then she's just walking about, which I here's the thing.
I didn't mind that because I thought Dreyfus's speech to
her was really good, that line of oh god, I've
forgot it though, what is the that's not dictatorship? She
says like blank without power is just an opinion and
I can't remember what the fucking word was. I'll have
to look it up. But when she's described like there's
not heroes and good guys, there's or heroes righteousness, right, yeah,
righteousness without power. It's just an opinion. Who Ever wrote
the line ace is good job, mister screenwriter.
Speaker 2: Oh Man, Yeah, yeah, that was like there, that was
just there, like, you know, grief, persevering, love persevering.
Speaker 1: Absolutely right, because to me that that was like, oh yeah,
that that's track, whatever you like it or not. That tracks.
And then her saying there's bad guys and there's just
worse guys. It felt like, for the first time maybe
the MCU we've seen her be like a human character
as far as saying like, yeah, this shit I'm doing
is really shady, but I'm doing it for a reason
because there's worse people than me, and I'd be completely
fine if we had. Hey, now the whole movie is
gonna turn on her. But that speech got to her.
But then I need more fall up with mel other
than just like she says her fimth century and then
just we never see her again, you know, like that
could be like a big moment of oh yeah, you
know what value, you are right and this world is
messed up and yea da da da dah, and that's
our Again. I wish we got this earlier. So we
begin like Thunderbolts two before Doomsday. Maybe that plays into
Thunderbolts two with Mel, But it's like, if we have
Thunderbolts two and five to six years from now, is
Mel even gonna be in that movie? I don't know.
So I liked the idea of that, but it just
very little follow up. So and again, so many characters, right.
Speaker 2: So yeah, ultimately, I think like the character of Mel,
the purpose the character is just for us to have
a talking piece for Valentina to share her motivations and
her thoughts and you know, all of her like villainous
ways of like why she's doing certain decisions, and so
the character ends up just being like an ear essentially. Yeah,
but I feel like she got a lot more screen
time then, Like I feel like we need a little
something else, especially when you're giving her this b plot
that she's gonna like make a difference and like she
I guess she picks up the thing and like activates
the kill switch, but it's I don't know. Then, as
you mentioned, then she just goes back down the elevator
and then that's the last scene. Like, I'm sure she's
in that last speech scene on the side, but I
don't think she has like another spoken line, right, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel she's there. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It just feels like a bit of an odd
uh ending for the character.
Speaker 1: And it's like I can't remember if it was Tarantino
or somebody. I think it was Tarantino when someone asked
about doing movies in present day and he just said, like,
you'll never see a cell phone in my movie because
it's so boring, and like, I think there's way to
do then stuff. But like I swear sixty percent of
her screen time is her looking down at a device
updating right now. It's just like no offense to her
talking Lucky on the phone. Yeah, like no offense to
her because I like her, Like you said, driveway dolls, blockers,
I've seen her stuff, like, oh, I will be looking
forward to seeing her and other things. But man, as
actors like that, it just has to be so boring.
It's like, what's you're seeing, Oh, you're on the phone,
what's you're seeing? You're looking down the phone, what's you're
seeing while you're showing, you're showing value your phone. It's
like like I don't want to be this way you Like,
no wonder why Ao dropped out of that role, like
especially after Bear, and like she's gone more of a profile,
like she just led an eight twenty four movie this year.
This is definitely le like even for this actress. I'm like,
I feel like you could have unless it was a
great payday. It's like you should have held out and
wait for another Marble thing, because this is such like
a someone give herself, like put that phone away, find
something else to do. That just feels so just like
on the day, like how do we do this? I
just pull out your phone and fuck, maybe her lines
are on there. I don't know, we've been there before.
We're we're reading something somewhere else. Yeah, maybe it is.
Literally it could be right because she did get recasts
and maybe it's like, hey, you're you're getting this set
really quick. But it's just it looks so uninteresting at
least if something like we just did you right kirkle
where it's like when people are texting, they do like
different bubbles, so that you can't do that with this
but it's like, if you have a cell phone, you
gotta do something with it, because cell phones are a
very boring tool. It's not even cool like a payphone
or a flip phone sell like touch. Cell phones are
so unsinematic, So you gotta do something and this is
just it's it's nothing. So I felt bad for in
that sense.
Speaker 2: So I feel like, once again, I want to give
this actress, like I want to see mel and that
this characters. There's some potentially like the actress, but like
I feel like I would better if we spent that
screen time on Valentina with giving her more conversations with
the other characters in the movie, like the sequence in
the vault, like obviously they're sneaking out and like, but
all the characters are in the same spot, Like there
maybe could a way where like maybe you sho over
like through a loud speaker or like through intercom or
something like maybe she's talking to the heroes that way
and they can talk back through that way. That might
be a little bit goofy too, but at least you
get like her able to explain some of her reasoning
to like the other characters, and we get some back
and forth there, but instead it feels like we actually
don't really get a lot of Valentina and other characters,
Like we just get her with the Congress, with the
other like Judge Guy and then mel instead, who uh
you know, don't really have much substance to them.
Speaker 3: I think that's something that I felt like I was
lacking throughout the film, actually, because I've already I've already
stated that, like we just had so much build up
to the character Valentina. I've seen her pop up in
so many projects now it's probably hasn't been that many,
but it feels like one hundred at this point, because
it just seems like she's been slowly collecting piece of.
Speaker 1: Black Panther Hawk. I can't know Hawkeye, she's no, maybe
she hasn't. She's talked about Hawkeye. She's in.
Speaker 3: Soldier's Soldier.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she's at least this would be her fifth.
Maybe there could be another one in there, but yeah,
because I remember Black Panther too. She's Martin Freeman's ex wife,
and that's a bit of a set up there where
she's like trying to get willkand attack or something, and
it's like, all right, cool.
Speaker 3: She's more lead up than Thanos did. And I I
just feel like what was showcased here, I just wanted more,
more substance or more something like. I wanted it more
than just I'm just gonna have this weapon of mass destruction.
Everyone's gonna have to obey me, like type of plot.
Like I wanted more scenes kind of what you guys
just laid out of, maybe just her and the other characters.
Like I wanted more sequences with her and Bucky, especially
that they were both in like this political like stage right,
Like like I probably would have done better with a scene,
like a more scenes between her and Bucky than her
and the other congressman that was all over her case. Yeah,
because that kind of just hit like an abrupt end,
like no resolution or anything like that.
Speaker 1: I wish you kind of like obviously you can't put
I don't know what that guy's position was, right because
clearly I would say he's.
Speaker 3: He's just a congressman, is what it says on IMDb.
Speaker 1: Okay, I would say though, because he's on this board
or whatnot, it feels like he's above Bucky, right because
he's there speaking where Bucky is in the crowd watching
us all. And maybe Sbastian sand just doesn't want to
do those scenes, like I don't want to do this jargon.
But it's like I would try and find a way
to put all his stuff on to Bucky in one
way or another, even if he's just confronting her about right,
because even then he's like walking up the steps that
characters like, oh it's not just impeachment now, it's like
jail time. And then I think it's like last we
ever see of him? Right, right, what happened? Like he
gets no, Like it's just like since a weird thing.
It's funn We'll be see him in Superman because he
plays Perry White, so we'll be seeing him again later
on this summer. We all missed the boat on that
SuperH out draft. That would have been a nice two
point right there in Thunderbolts and Superman. But I digress,
say break and then we'll continue on and we are back.
Oh what I wanted to mention about the vault scene
because another thing just ran them all forget it, total
awesome powers moment when they're like, Okay, all your whatever
units are in there, let's get rid of it. Mel
hits a button and it's like two minute countdown room.
It's like, why does that not thing just automatically turn
on like heat? Like why is it like it's the
most like old like sixties bullshit?
Speaker 3: Ever, like in there's a clock, like if anything, there's
like inside the room there's a digital timer.
Speaker 1: I am fine with that, and even June the clock.
Speaker 2: Being in the room was actually absurd.
Speaker 1: I think Jake saw. But it's like in this day
and age where Tony Stark can like make the infidity
gallland out of his tech, you're telling me there's not
a bun. You can just press it. It's instantly like
the first turns up. I'm not saying it has to
go to one hundred, but the first just goes like
like not even a countdown till the first it just starts.
Speaker 2: So that was like for me and Iron it seems
like it's heating up. And also like usually those things
you want like some backup time in case you accidentally
hit the button so that you can cancel it in time. Right,
why is it not just the bomb then?
Speaker 1: Too?
Speaker 2: Two minutes does seem like a long time, though, I
will say like it should have been fifteen seconds or something,
And why is it not just a.
Speaker 1: Bomb in the room. All those people are human, you know,
than John Walker.
Speaker 3: His whole point is to burn the contents in there.
Speaker 1: Right, It's like, what is a bomb to Kirkland exploded and.
Speaker 3: Burn, well, you know, a fragment.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: We watched off because people got burnt up.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying to that, like the ghost counter machine
was just like in the room.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love it just felt so video game,
like there has to be a power source, let's find
and they got fifty seconds. I'm like, yeah, I get
these are top tier people, but like fifty seconds to
find this, this and that. Like funny, I guess we
should because we've talked about a lot of people, we
should talk about the woman of the hour here. You know,
uh we hardly knew he saw her face though her
face and man, I was thinking about this. I was like,
I hope she got paid a lot because if I
was an actor actress and I read that, I'd be like,
I'm not fucking coming in for a day for even
like to do like this is dumb. She got Maria Hill,
Yeah she yeah worse Marie Hill. We used to say,
oh man, they're gonna slip slip Knock task Master. This
is worse than Slipknot. At least Slipknot was in a
few scenes with a crew and then tried to like
fly away, remember with his little hooks, and then he
got blown up. She dies seen in like introduction scene one,
mid fight she just gets shot. At least Slipknot it
was like, oh, this is a fun way like that establishes, Hey,
you all got fucking bombs your next and Amanda water Boom,
she just gets shot by a regular fucking gun. And
then after that, Ghosts and John Walker proceed to use
her body for jokes like it is and they're like, oh,
He's like, oh, she used to be somebody and like
John's like, well, I think she wouldn't use this any more.
I'm like, oh my god, we have seen.
Speaker 2: She killed a lot of people and then she died.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've seen Marvel retcon stuff before. Right, Like they
introduced man Man uh not demanded Lourian, the man that
Aan in Iron Man three. Everyone hates it. They go, oh, well,
actually the real Manditor Manner, the real Mandarin is in
Sung She We've seen that a few times. Right. I'm
still mad they never fucking did that with Ralph Boner.
But I digress. This to me was like it literally
felt like Figging Company on the scream like we're sorry,
we fucked, Like task Masters sucked right, Like that was
a really bad call for us. And I just I
feel like it's funny now watching in retrospect task Masters.
The whole movie in Black Widow is made to be
like the Terminator, she's hunting Atasha down. She can mimic everything.
So now I'm like, had a black one have such
a tough time if Ghosts just fucking Kappa in the head,
Like it's to be such like a yeah, we realized
task Master fucking sucked and we're gonna kill her off
and us her as a joke and that's it. And yes,
I agree, s bubs. She just she got buried big time.
But I find that because yeah, task Master did suck,
I wish in retrospect they would have never announced task Master.
And I think it would have been funnier if in
that scene she popped up and You'm like, holy fuck
task Masters and then you kill her. We're like, for months,
for not sorry, for years, we've known this wasn't gonna happen.
And it felt like they didn't even care, Like they
didn't even give her a cool scene. She's like, I
just kill her off. Whatever. Was so weird but funny.
Speaker 3: She would have been on that first poster right when
it was announced that she was, so it was probably like, ah, fuck,
we shouldn't have had her on there. Yeah lately.
Speaker 1: Retroactively, but yeah.
Speaker 2: Wasn't there another change though? Wasn't there another character that
I got added or removed from that?
Speaker 1: You know, at one point Ghosts almost wasn't gonna make it,
But then I think the strike worked for Hannah John Caman,
where at one point I think it was not gonna
line up because it got delayed. It did line up
because they're at one.
Speaker 2: Point, that's why she was given less material. Maybe she
was It could have penciled into the script.
Speaker 1: Later, yeah, right, because I think at one point that
image from Comic Con was like released on another Marble
panel and ghost wasn't in it anymore, and everyone was
like yeah, yeah, everyone's like what's going on? But then
she came back, so it could be, right, that could
be and that's always the case with these Marvels movies. Right, Oh,
why is there like same thing Why is them Bucky
having these scenes with Val Maybe because Sebastian Sam was
making the fucking Trump movie, you know, like that they
MSU does not care. Remember Dave Batista and Tom Holland
did not meet till the Red Carpet of Infinity War.
They have like ten plus scenes together in Infinity War,
but they were not in the same room at all.
So that's just like an MCU trope thing, right, So
but uh, yeah, task Master Dylan.
Speaker 2: She's gone. Yeah, I don't know, like if you removed her,
that scene could still work because you still have a
triangle of people who could have been hunting each other.
So I like, I don't know why they brought her
off the bench, Like if you wanted to use that
like leave her in the reservoir and like bring her
back maybe some other time in the future. It just
seems like a really weird choice to even put her
in here because any effect. And I don't know, maybe
he was heightened because we pay attention to all this
stuff and we know that her name wasn't on like
one of those chairs, so like, well, okay, you kind
of just confirmed her death right then and there a
few weeks ago. But like so maybe it was more
surprising for other people. But I don't know if there
was like like I don't know, you guys were in
loud theaters. I don't think it was like there was
no like expression is exactly right. Yeah, that was like
a movie that didn't do super well, you know, COVID
movie of course, but like not one that people are
revisiting often anyway.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I burst out laughing when that happened. I
think I was the only one in my entire theater theater,
but no one like like shocked gas reacted how like
maybe you would expect like a gut wrenching quick kill
like that would happen.
Speaker 4: It was just like there she is, task mess.
Speaker 1: It just felt like another like a Eric bad guy
lack you introduced and they got killed. Like yeah, there's
no reaction my Like I said, when that little girl
got fucking voided, that was a popular Oh my god,
task Master people are fucking like, hey, you got more
popcorn over there, Like no one gave a fuck about it,
and especially once they made her a joke too. And
it's like like what dyl was saying, like I would
have been fine, like fuck throw like make task Master
a fucking villain in one episode of Daredevil and have like, oh,
he's gonna go up against this person that can mimic
a sing or give me a fucking bulls eye task
Master fight and have bullseye killer. But like and here
it's it's it's such a weird thing.
Speaker 2: Of fitting teeth at each other using the same techniques.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like yeah, same thing, even if she was in
this movie edited around, like oh, we could say this character.
But I think this is that Marvel's done this before
where it's an apology to the fan of hey, like
they even do that with Bruce and Hulk where everyone
hated that age of Ultro and they like right away
like Okay, don't really talk about them ever, like want
to run away together, be in love, like they definitely
are for good or worse like in tune of that stuff.
And I think they just like they could have just
never had task Master ever again. But it was a
funny meme and I'm glad it'll paid off. And Esa says,
do you think they'll have They'll just have a new
tast Master or something. I think so it all depends
on doomsday. But I think what they're going to happen.
As we've talked about this before, the same way in
Days of Future Past, Wolverine wakes up and he's in
like a new timeline. I think that's what's gonna happen
with Doomsday. So I think you will, like they will
do a new it will be like Bandarin. It'll be like, oh,
this is the this is the real task or this
is a task Master or in the new universe, like
whatever the six one sixth version two is. I think
you will see this character again, but in like a
Hawkeye season two or a spread, which kind of should
be never hurting characters though, knowing that too, but I
think we'll I think we'll see we'll see them again, man, woman, whatever,
Just not this version of Dragoff's daughter who was like
a rope. It was just one of our soldier, remember
That's what it was. It was just that over again.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I mean all all this mentioned though,
I love that scene. I think it was a super
fun scene. Just the dynamic of each one of them
has like a different target in this sequence, and they're
all just gunning for each other in different ways. I'm
not here for you all these like goofy little lines
as well. I think that was a really fun set
piece and it it worked really well for me. Good action.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love the way uh just John Walker in
that sequence was just was just so great and I
forgot to shut it out. I probably will forget it.
Saw mentioned in here, but when uh yeah, ghosts like
comes back to save them in the room and then
they just get all like you know, they're all trying
to get out of therefore the flames come and then
they just get shot back, and then John Walker's just
like lean, Dad's like, oh, didn't think' gonna come back.
Speaker 4: He's like, can you helped me out?
Speaker 3: And she just like walks right by him, And just
all of those little moments with John Walker in here
just works so well for me.
Speaker 2: You know, he like tapped the ground after that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like when you go up for a
high five and somebody doesn't give you a high five,
you know, your little yeah, feel down on yourself.
Speaker 1: Man, Like I said I do, Doctor Doom, stay the
hell away from my John Walker. I do not want
you killing this man.
Speaker 3: He needs to make it for at least the biggest
shield is going to be like a taco. Next time
we see him or is it going to be fixed?
Speaker 2: He still had a taco mode in the post credit, right,
we'll talk. He might just be Taco shield now.
Speaker 1: I sure I miss that. Yeah, we'll see. Trying to
think anything else that, but yeah, no, really good set piece,
good set up. Yeah no. I like the beginning too
with uh we talked about that with Red Guardian, the
Eulaya conversation that read there Elena is like or Red
Guardian's trying to get a job.
Speaker 2: That was good.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think there's anything else with the crew there, but.
Speaker 2: I can't think of one other. Yeah, and a couple
other I guess just action sequences to shout out. I
really like the opening one with Yolena, you know, parachuting
down onto that roof then going through kind of got
like the the vertical vertical like hallway scene where she
goes through takes out some guys. That was really fun. So,
you know, a brief but another another good action piece
I thought, good like set up for where she's at
emotional Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like that and it was good too, Like it's
a good juxtaposition when they have this montage of her
killing people but then she's actively talking about like she's
doing that. Did she only narrate that one? Oh she
wasn't narrating right, she was talking to the type of scientists,
but for us it was narration. But it was a
good juxtaposition of her killing all those people, but just
talking about how empty she's becoming and it's getting like
worse and worse, which again credit to like not as
bad as Bob who I was surprised they literally said meth.
They could have said drugs. But this is why I
definitely feel they've.
Speaker 2: Thought I misheard it the first time, and then they
said it again later and I was like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1: And this is where I happlawed them again too. I
think that somewhere they got credit for or crap for, like, hey,
you're being too like family friendly in a sense, right
because like at the end of day, my kids are
I'm not gonna show them Thunderbolt because I don't how
much they'd enjoy it, Like there's some stuff in there,
but it's like, well, and the'll learn it one day.
But then I'm be like, oh, meth, like Jesus, like
like the kids aren't gonna pick that, Like the kids
aren't gonna pick that up right, so it's like, dare yeah,
so like us as I do. Also, oh my god,
like that is pretty. And even then when they got
that room of him being the chicken, he's like, oh,
I was addicted to math here, it's like it kind
of works because like it's stupid fun but like our
garden's like that chicken better not hit me again, like
your chicken. Like there's good stuff. But again another moment
I wanted to shut out though forget during your time
at the beginning. Really liked the Marvel logo uh change
up here where I was. I was caught off guard
because the all the letters were of comic book panels.
I was like, this is fucking weird because we usually
get the MCU footage right. But then when it starts
to go and sleep in the black, it's like okay,
Like anytime you got a stash logo and you can
do something fun and different with it, it's like, okay,
that's good and like no music after it's just black
and I think we talked about but I just want
to stress man. I loved the full on just void
version of Century Ak Bob Major Center Vibes Kirkland with
the eyes like lots of eyes going on, like it
had the same thing. But because when we saw him
in the trailers like that, I just thought, oh, he
shot that way like it's a shadow of the scene right,
like it's just like a building or a helicopter, but
with him literally being like dark link here, Like fuck,
that was awesome, Like I love and it looked good too,
even Thore's a moment when he is fighting regular Bob,
I'm like, man, this is gonna look like shit, and
it's like, oh no, it looks great like and he's
kind of like every time he was doing stuff look believable.
So uh yeah, I can't wait because I think that's
gonna be he that's gonna I think he's gonna have
a big role to play in Doomsday because I think
when Doctor Doom's winning and if he becomes like in
the comics like Emperor Doom. Uh, century is a bun
you gotta pull as much as Bob doesn't want to.
And fuck, I can't wait because that's gonna be you know,
we'll get to the end credits, but Bob is their
hulk where you know, Bruce, everyone's turning because you might
he might lose control, right, this is that, but like
I think, to a much worse degree. But that's why
I think it will be kind of like remember with
Vision when he was getting a little surgery in Finny
War and Scart which didn't pop up to she had
to o'con and then start popping off. I think that
Century is gonna be like the New Scarlet Rich where
it's like, okay, we are, it's the last inning, we're losing,
you gotta turn and then fuck we're getting together, like yeah,
and we're gonna get Doom versus Century, and Century's gonna
fucking lose to like they're gonna do it. Like I
don't think they're gonna kill him, but I think Doom's
gonna find a way. Fuck like they got me. They
got me excited for something in Doomsday, which I did
not think Thunderbolts would do. I don't talk more about
the ancrets, but a lot of things everything with Void uh,
Century look absolutely loved it.
Speaker 2: Also wasn't Yeah great Carden Marbles, wasn't the Deadpool. Wolverine
also called the Void that location that they went to
like in the Other where all the old dead things go.
The Void.
Speaker 1: No, it's not Limbo.
Speaker 3: I thought it was something like that, though you go
to the Void, I thought.
Speaker 2: I thought it was you go to the void when
you get pruned, different void, though I would assume yeah, Vodou,
I would assume as much, because yeah, based off Marvel Snap,
I thought the Void was like, no, specifically a character,
not like a location you could go to. But I
don't know if that's a change up for this movie
or yeah, no, it.
Speaker 1: Is the Void, which which I don't I don't know
because I know in the comics like Century and the Voids,
so I don't know if Loki's Void is also from
the com books. I think it might be. But yeah,
that's all that's all avoiding going on, you know, not avoiding.
Thank god he didn't show up in dead Pool Wolverine,
you know, like uh, Cassandra Nova and their little band
like band of Mary Munees, Like would it just completely
fucked Like what's like Extray Juggernaut gonna do against Century?
You know?
Speaker 2: So yeah, I feel like he's even like a little
bit of like Gore the God Butcher and like when
he's like stuck in the color out of things like that.
Albums has a similar energy to it as well, So
I don't know, maybe he was pulling from his depression
to use some of his powers there too.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, I really love the look.
Speaker 3: I feel like because just my only experience with this
characters through Marvel Snap, I was expecting like a big
sinister smile to the void version, and we actually got
a little bit of it, like when Bob is beaten
on him and you just see him smile and you
just see like the white teeth. I'm assuming they're trying to,
you know, get close to I haven't seen what he
looks like in the comic books. I'm assuming it's close
to the Marvel Snap cards, so that's what I'm pulling from.
But I just love the scene of the teeth there.
Just added it added so much sinisterness to it because
it's like he's actually enjoying this more so than just
being this this dark figure that just has no emotion,
like like he seemed like he was getting off, you know,
as Bob just beating there.
Speaker 1: Yeah one of you, Yeah, beat me off, Bob. There's
lots of different versions of us, so that's like a
similar one where it'say, okay, he's dark, but like look
at this one up here, like fuck, like I'm not
sure if they bust that out when you know you
start to verse.
Speaker 2: That's like shadow, Yeah, that's start there.
Speaker 1: Even then, look, Doom is in that photo right there,
so like this is a guy where he's like that,
that's what you're gonna bust out, Like look at that image.
But and you know what this got me excited for
fingers crossed that happened in SPIERMN four. This showed me, hey,
enough time we can get mister negative and he could
look really cool. Like that's other vibes I got too
of Like I hope we get mister Negative in this
Spider Man trilogy, and I think he can look fucking
awesome because void and I'll see that's a different color scheme.
But sometimes that's just like you just worry when it's
like you're gonna sink all the colors out of it
and everything else. Even though this movie is like I
agree with what Clay said the discord. It is very great,
especially when they are recreating which I shout to use.
He said this we moved along when you say, he
really like them saying to the civilians. That was great
because when Lena said, like, hey, what made you feel good?
And first Reguard's kind of talking egotistical, like oh, when
people love me, But then he goes into like, but
when I was saving people and making a difference and
seeing their emotion, And I loved that sequence on each
of them saving somebody doing something. It's cheesy stuff, but
it's good cheesy stuff. Of John Walker catches the wall
and they all go to help them. It's like, yeah,
this is some good superhero stuff right here, you know.
But that's where it is so funny. You look at
that seeing you look at Avengers twenty twelve, this New
York is like colorless, Like it is so fucking gray.
Not a big fan of that portion. It works somewhat,
but I wish it was actually had some more vibrant
because then when Bob fucking makes it dark, it's look like,
oh look at this, look at this color changed. But
it literally just goes from gray to like, oh, darker black.
You know.
Speaker 4: But them saying people though, isn't it just a grey?
Speaker 1: It wasn't twenty twelve. They're still like, why are the
trees looking gray? Like it's that stuff where it's like
when they and it's just a Marvel color grade thing
of like to Sometimes they just yeah, they just mute
these colors, and it's like, well, like that's one thing.
I'm very excited for Superman July and Fantastic four. Even
like look at that Fantastic four trailer. Everyone's bright in that, right.
But that's what I hate because it's like, well that's
a different universe. It's like, oh so in the six
one six everything's fucking just dull colored. This is breaking it.
You know, I hope all the color so but no,
overall that scene was just good and it was like
a good way to which we're gonna we're we'll building
up to then credit to mimic the Avengers in twenty twelve.
Remember Nick Fury had the idea. It didn't work, but
then they all end up in New York saving people
and then became a team, much like here the Thunderbolts
is like, oh, we'll try to be a team. They
all split off and it's like we got to come together,
and it was good just to you know, see hero
saving people. Sometimes that's all is basic stuff.
Speaker 2: You know. Mmmmm, I think I'm ready for some credits.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's right.
Speaker 1: Anything else that's okay, what we'll tear your last ad
break here and they'll be right back, and we're back.
So yeahs a good transition where Okay, they're saving people,
they also do everything with the the bob stuff. They
get them out of there, and like I said, kind
of weirdly where like Valentino was also in the void
supposedly right, but then they all just burst down and
there you know, uh, Reguard he wants to kill her.
Bucky talks her out of that, but he's like, okay,
we'll just break her some bones and stuff like that.
But the they are a unit now, they're all together,
you know, fucking BUCkies looking really jacked and hairs all
over the place. I will mention I did like when
he kidnapped them that he put like steel rods around
Red Guardian John Walker because they got the super soldiers
here them, so they can't they just bust out. So
I really liked that. But anyway, so there's like a
fallen I don't know, beam and there's like some plastic
wrapping like construction, and valadinas sneaking behind that. She's just
gonna give me a second. They move past, and then
all the press is there, miles there, and she's like
literally just mid speech. Like I said, kind of weird
skip cutscene moment, but I think it's like, Okay, I
know where they're going here. And then she introduces them
as the New Avengers. And obviously this is something we've
been talking about since endgame, right of how they gonna
do this? Who are the New Avengers. We've literally gotten
no breadcrumbs whatsoever up until Cap and even then there's
some stuff, but they announced them as the New Avengers.
And what I did like is okay, you could have
just done that and then and movie go to the
next credit scene. I loved in the credits that they
showed that they're going back to like the old Steve
Rogers' way of we're just gonna propaganda the hell out
of these people, where we're gonna recreate posters, we're gonna
get them on Time magazine. We're gonna do this. It's
the same like Cap one on one. And I love
the fourth wall breaking of them, like the be Avengers,
like are these people ready? Because I think people say
that already about Sam or already about like the rumored
Avengers roster of like well there's no Downing and there's
no Scar Joe. There's no evans, like, we're not invested here.
So I thought that was like a fun thing to
bring it all in. So we got that, and then
what I really loved is in the you know, we
got the Red Guardian scene in the grocery shop. Cool,
he wants to be recognized. But then we get the
second end credit scene. We jumped fourteen months later, and
I know they're probably gonna go back and say like, oh,
we'll just be the Thunderbolts now, but I love that
they've been the Avengers now for over a year. They
got fucking Avengers costumes, they got tag like we said
Bucky's hair even ghosts had different hair, Like it's passage
of time's been shown where there's so much time where
that doesn't have It's like, oh it's been a year
and they look the exact same, but it's like they're
rocking as the Avengers. So they are the Avengers even
though it's been fourteen months. They're still getting crap. So
I guess now we got to think about this, which
we'll see what happens. Sam and Captain America is like,
I want to put together the Avengers. And then a
year and two months later he's still not found a team,
which is like, I don't know why Sam can be
mad because at least these people are doing fucking something,
but they established that, which I'll get you guys opinion
on a second that Sam is not happy and he's
going to be putting together his own team and they
say he's even trying to copyright it. And then we'll
talk about maybe the end Singer after because it's another part.
But what do you guys think about them being deemed
the new Avengers? And now again when we talk about endgame,
that was five years then there's like another two years.
Now we're like eight to nine years pass like where
we're supposed to be timeline wise, like in our world.
But what did you guys think about the we have
our new Avengers per se? I guess I think they're
probably gonna switch back to Thunderbolts, but at least for
a year, like they've been the Avengers. To me, that's
a that's a great amount of time, Like who's calling
them the be Avengers? Still after a year, you know,
they got the castle everything, and Bob is not on the.
Speaker 2: Natural Yeah, I mean a lot of people in like
the endgame sequence, they became Avengers for like one fight,
you know, and then they guess, I guess they were
out fired or something. I don't know, maybe they weren't
official members. I'm not sure how that that all works.
But no, I mean I think you know that it's
we've been talking about this, and maybe if you were
a combook super fan, you knew that the Asterisk part
of this led to like this Avengers thing, But I
didn't know that, and so for me it was a
big surprise. It was a big pop moment. I thought
it was really cool, really fun. Uh, And I guess
that was like before the credit scene. But then yeah,
getting into that, I yeah, I guess I didn't really
think more deeply about like the time jump side of it.
I guess, like I'm trying to remember in Captain America,
like specifically the dialogue between Sam and Bucky, Like does
this have to have occurred after that movie based on
the events of like that dialogue there? Ye, yes, because
I guess because the Avengers thing would have been like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because remember that Sam's last thing, he tells little Falcon,
I'm gonna put together the Avengers, and that's where Bucky's saying, hey, yeah,
he even Florence is that she brings up the Bucky
Like why is Sam trying to start it.
Speaker 2: Is after it's Yeah, it is pretty goofy that when
they're talking about like the other Avengers that are assembling,
and it's like just Sam still like working, you know,
sending out some pects and getting ghosted but not by
not by this ghost. So yeah, that's maybe a bit clumsy.
Like I don't really know why it needs to be
fourteen months. Maybe we'll find out more later, but it
feels like based on what we saw here, like other
than the different hairstyles, like this could have been like
a month later and that would probably make a lot
more sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my worry of them killing some of these
people off because of like, oh, well they or a
team for like over a year. It's like, yeah, but
we didn't see that. That's you told us that. But Dylan,
I was gonna ask his mask Kirkle the same thing,
why do you think Sam? And this is because I
I really need this answer in doomsday? Why would he
not approve of this team or being on this team?
Speaker 2: Hmmm? Yeah, I mean that was something that was another
like I think a lot of the inclusion of Bucky,
as I mentioned, is pretty clumsy. But to me, like
his little sting or whatever line he had here, like
it felt really weird to me that he would not
be working with Sam, or that he would like continue
to work with the I guess the New Avengers, the Thunderbolts,
and like not not go over there and work with
Sam or not like have some sort of connection, especially
over like this long period of time, you think they
would like figure something out. So yeah, I feel like
the more I think about it, the fourteen months thing
is like becoming more and more of an issue. But yeah,
I mean, in theory he shouldn't have an issue with
them being a team, but maybe like the name Avengers
means to him than that, and he wanted some of
that control I suppose, but that doesn't really fit a
lot with I don't know what I know of that character,
but I don't know. The whole thing just feels kind
of odd.
Speaker 1: Same question you, Kirklam, Why do you think Sam, because
like they also imagine, I'm hoping it's me self ploted
and not just like one line on doomsdayheres like you know,
you guys are good of ngers and we're good to
go it's like I'm hoping that is something, and I
think there is like some fun of like Sam's team
versus Bucky team, like you don't want to get two
solid or there's something there, Like I think there's even
though I think Sam's gonna get like fucking like Captain Martin,
like his team is gonna get like super stacked and
he's gonna have the fucking like Winter Soldier squad. But
why would Sam not want this?
Speaker 3: Because I feel it in there for a reason, right,
So I feel like the big thing in my mind
that would make the most sense that would save this
is if he like really knows kind of what's going
on with Val and like just hates her and says this,
She's like, yeah, sure, corrupt can't And like maybe in
these fourteen months again it's all we haven't seen any
of that. Maybe like there's been some things that have
been kind of getting close to that line on.
Speaker 4: This is this right or not?
Speaker 3: But then even yea like a never ending thing when
it comes to the Avengers, is you know what we're doing?
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I guess a lot of these people have killed a
lot of people.
Speaker 1: Well I was gonna bring that but like even Elena
says to vals like, oh, we own you now, So
couldn't you just say, like, hey, she's like around, but
we're still calling the shots. And I know a lot
of these people have killed people, but really it's like
the most cheap Like, hey, Bucky doesn't count. He was
brainwashed John Walker. I would think, maybe I'm wrong, but
I would think if he's been an Avenger for a
year and two months, I think he's probably redeemed himself.
For the one guy, which was weird in this movie,
they said an innocent guy. He was not an innocent guy. Yes,
the guy in fucking were soldiers surrendered and John Walker
still decapitate him, but he was still a part of
a terrorist organization. He was not an innocent man.
Speaker 2: So they tried to like, well, Rechrid he even had
that comment, right, He's like, well was he innocent?
Speaker 1: Like yeah, So it's like if Sam, I get Sam
had his problem, so it's like Bucky forgave him ghost.
Like if you look at her origin kid locked up,
it's like, how can Sam be mad at that? Bob
is just Hulk, So that's your defense there.
Speaker 2: The thing is, though, like it seems like these people
have also been just like hired mercenaries for Valve for
years or like a year at least, and like presumably
in that time, they're like we saw Elene at the
start of this, like go and kill a bunch of people,
including like scientists, guy, a bunch of other people that died,
and it's like assuming, it seems like they're all doing
that same.
Speaker 1: Thing, right, I guess for me, it's just tough. Where
where does he know that?
Speaker 2: Though I don't even know if he well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I assume for the movie, they're just gonna say
he knows it all right, he knows Oh, they're contracted killers.
And that's probably what he's gonna say is the Avengers
are heroes and you guys are just a bunch of sassins.
And that's where I do think the Thunderbolts as a
team will admit that, yeah, we don't actually really want
to be the Avengers. We'd rather be the Thunderbolt. It's like,
no red tape, do whatever. I think we're gonna get
that moment and dooms. They are secret wars that they'll
go back because I hope the plan to carry this
team over to the next saga, like a lot of
these actors are young too, It's not like they're long
in the tooth like Pew Wyatt Russell. Like. Even so
Bashi's standing's like older the bunch. It's like he's still
just like in his forties. Like I think he can
still do this, even though I kind of want him
to be the DC Batman. That's a whole different cast,
But I think that's where they're gonna go with. I
just don't buy that. What I've seen with Sam that
he wouldn't believe in like a redemption arc, you know,
like with civil like Civil War, he became a criminal,
he became an international terrorist by not signing those accords
for X, Y and Z. So it'd be like, yeah,
Ghost was an assassin because her whole life she was
fucking experimented on. I feel like the Sam, I know,
it would be like all right, I understanding, Nope, yeah
fuck her. It's like like like you said in Avengers
like or an Endgame, look at all those people that
became Avengers. Do you think they Ravagers are all good people? Like?
Speaker 2: I mean, even outside of like the fourteen months jump,
what have they done in that time? Have they been
doing good? It's like freaking century. It killed killed the
quote unquote like one hundreds people present like that in
New York, maybe even thousands of people in that sequence.
I would not done my sentence yet. But then they
saved the day, right, and they saved all these people, uh,
and like that that counts for something because if they
weren't there, like doctor Strange, he should have been right
down the street. I don't where the hell he was, Like,
he should have been, you know, coming here save the day.
A lot of people he knew who you know, who
wasn't there? Cap. I mean we got another Cap, we
got a previous Captain America here with John Walker. But
like they did save the day, and that counts for
a lot. I don't know. Does that does that you know,
go over the red ledger that they have, like I
don't know, but like.
Speaker 1: Natasha was a you say red ledger. Natasha was a
fucking avenger.
Speaker 2: She killed kids like Elena, like like yeah, led to
deaths too.
Speaker 1: And I would think in the I think it's two
years from Civil War to Infinity War that Sam Cap
and Natasha on the run together. So I think even
if Sam had some question but Natasha, he'd ollibon and
be like, you know what, I understand what happened to her.
So it's just it's a weird thing. Like you said, Dylan,
they saved the city. I'm I mean, I assume in
the twelve months they've not just been sitting around. They've
been taking people on. And I do, like, I know,
we don't. Sometimes animated animation stuff is hit or miss.
I hope there is. Like I would kill for a
fucking animated six to eight episode show of the fourteen
months of like the missions they've been on and put
them against like b rate like villains. But I would
love to see what have they been doing for fourteen months.
That's where I felt in the endcrame I like, man,
this could have been movie number two of like how
fun would that be as all these losers trying to
figure out how to be Avengers doing it like that
that interview Bucky did the beginning where it's oh, it's
a worrying issue and we're really worried and uh, we're
gonna like even so fun or like Red Guardian talk shows,
Like there's so much potential there. But I think after
Secret Wars, they they won't be the Avengers. They'll be
back to the Thunderbolt. So I again, it just feels like, man,
we should have had this years ago, you know.
Speaker 2: So but m hm. Or maybe they'll be you know,
young Avengers, Avengers, New Avengers, like they can all just
exist like different arms of the same umbrella, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Maybe, or fucking Doom just kills all these characters
and that's why they're no longer the adventures, you know,
like other than other than Jolena.
Speaker 2: They lives, yeah, and Bucky, but Bucky, you.
Speaker 1: Know, they could him send off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be okay because to me, he's like, yeah,
as I've mentioned many times, he's kind of like one
character like issues with this movie. I feel like it
would be a bit of a whimper for me if
like he's gone on all this this great journey that
he's had ups and downs, but like for this and
then just like dies off and Avengers would be a
little disappointing for me if this was like his last
like major.
Speaker 1: Role sacrifice play. Though. You know, maybe he just says
something big to help take down Doom, you know, maybe yeah,
and he got the other saga stuff right that feeds
into Bucky Barnes.
Speaker 3: You do.
Speaker 2: But I'm saying like he no ending on the highest
of notes for him. Yeah, even if I do love
this movie, but just him in particular, just what was
going on here with some of their writing is a
little confused.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did appreciate when he showed up on the motorcycle.
He felt like he's an actual Avenger superhero where all
the rest of these people are just kind of like
the beat here, Like I felt they they made him
stand out as far as like I've been doing this
for decades, where you guys are still like relatively new
at this.
Speaker 2: I will say also when he was, you know, grenading
up all these all these hummers and head like throws
the grenade on theirs, I feel like Ghosts could have
easily dodged that attack, right, I think so, well, she's
a little the car was really slow. She could have
just well he wasn't sound beaming though.
Speaker 1: No, But I think I'm saying she's still recovering from
it because she cool down. Okay, Yeah, I remember John
Walker literally did a polar back in the car, So
I'm saying she was like mini right.
Speaker 2: I just feel like it was like five minutes prior
I thought she had bounced back, but I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, needs more time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anything else, also get the other part anything else
in Sam Avengers. So I guess technically we do have
Avengers right now. It's this well it's debated, but we
got the Avengers with the Z right now.
Speaker 3: I will be anticipating some answers, and if they don't
get those answers, it'll be big, big thumbs down.
Speaker 1: So especially because before you go down and I told
you this off aired Dylan, but the end to have
the quote here. Yeah, So the director of this movie
said for the end credit, I was there when it
was filmed. I can say that it comes from the
set of a production that might be starting production right
around now. So aka, they film this on the Doomsday set.
That means this scene has been filmed very very recently.
So that's where I'm hoping they literally put that line
there because whatever's happening in the Doomsday script, it will
have some sort of point, okay, And I feel like
it'll be similar to like how, in my opinion, how
did Thaniels winning in Finny War because the Avengers were split.
This will be the same thing where Sam and Bucky
can't get on the same page even though I feel
like it's kind of stupid, Like I don't know, there's
this Robert Downey junior variant. You guys can't get it together?
Have we gone through this? But I think that's the
idea that they Even Bucky said, like, hey, I talked
to Sam and it didn't go well. So I do
hope it is referred to and it's not just a
one line throwaway. And the other thing I almost forgot
too is, yeah, spider Man worse Superhero? What's going on
with Kingpin? What's going on with this? He's just fucking
nowhere in New York and the voice saving nobody. But
even then, I guess this is technically now The end
credit is a year and two months after Fisk, Like,
I guess Fisk could be handled by now, right, because
that's technically Daredevil's happening. Daredevil season two is gonna be
a be a prequel to.
Speaker 2: Do we don't But but we don't really know when
Daredevil's season one takes place inference to anything else, right
that Like, even though it came out in between these
two movies, that could be kind of a bunch of
different spots.
Speaker 1: Okay, just throwing that out there, but you're right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh yeah, I was just I was bringing up
the list again, looking at the all the names on
the chairs, and we know that. I think they did
confirm that there's gonna be more names on more chairs
or I don't know if they said they're gonna do
it that way, but I guess I'm just doing a
brief look at the list of like, Okay, who's on,
like not dis Avengers, but the other Avengers. I guess.
I mean, it's so tricky. We don't know how a
lot of them are gonna fit in. But like Chris Hemsworth, uh,
you know, you got thor you know, Letty Schwrit's Black Panther.
Of course we've got what's the name of the other
black Panther character? I can't remember his name now? The
villain guy who's like now on the team. Yeah, no, no,
I'm Baku. But like the oh my god, who's the
villain of Wakonda Forever? What's his name again? That one's
like the most straightforward one. Danny Danny Ramirez. You know
it was as little Falcon.
Speaker 1: His team is stacked already at the five.
Speaker 2: I don't know if, yeah, Paul, I don't know if
I don't know if you know Loki is like on
the Avengers or if he just comes out from another realm.
And then of course like the X Men characters in
their little realm. So I guess that's kind of the
people on the crew right now.
Speaker 1: And again, even though for CAP as it not being great,
we talked about this, it's not smooth. It feels remember
when we reviewed Daredevil and we're like, oh, you could
watch Daredevil episode one and then A nine. It's kind
of its own thing. I will say this feels like
that where it's like you can just watch CAP Thunderbolts
Fantastic four and that gets you to Avengers. There's other
great stuff in the other phases, don't get me wrong,
but it's really feeling like, you know what, we don't
have much time to set up Avengers, so let's make
these three are like these three films are very tied.
Like Captain America has Bucky that sets the Congressman thing.
This has alviously the team coming from space, and that's
gonna say. I now I'm thinking like I would have
had on my Bengal carpet. It's like, fuck, are the
Thunderbolts Are they gonna be in the end credits and
Fantastic four like you would assume, but that is that
feels exactly like, remember, God, what movie was it that
had the end credit of? After everyone was snapped, they
were trying to call Nick Fury's pager and Brie Larson
showed up and said, like, where is Fury? This felt
exactly like that of the Avengers. There's something wrong in space?
And then boom F four logo you know which credit
ass I saw it too, but fuck man, you did
not have to put in the credits that the Fantastic
four theme was coming. Because that happened, I was like,
all right, so now I know the end credits, you
fucking assholes.
Speaker 3: Like I was reading the discord while I was just waiting,
and then of course I'm like, oh, that's kind of funny.
So I knew of it then. But then when it
actually came on, there was like three guys sitting in
front of me and they like pointed up. They're like, yeah, oh,
you see that I saw and then and then you know,
there's many people that.
Speaker 4: Didn't see that.
Speaker 3: So then when they actually saw the logo that that's
when the hooton and holler and were coming out. People
were getting pretty lively and excited for that.
Speaker 1: Thank you s bubs. That was the Captain Marvel post
credits scene that had the Avengers in there, and then
that set up her joining that and that that's what
this was. One on one. It is the Avengers, and
then that's what happened. So they have a space thing,
which again I loved where Florence is using the machines
and Bucky's like asking to do this. She's like I
was gonna it's okay, we'll ask to do this again.
It's showing like he's like tall, he's like an actual Avenger,
where like you're laying all the people are kind of
like trying to be but there's something going on space
and oh and then you have on the background like
what do you mean space? I think we have lots
or no. It was a bomber walker that had that
line about the space of the building like maybe it's
walk or we's like space, we have tons of space. Yeah,
but they're like, no, something else and then the computer's
popping off like a contusion in space or whatnot. And
then they go and they show it and then you
see the ship which got lots of gas and then
they turn it and then you have the F four
logo again very this field in a good way old
glimpsed you like Phase one where it's like, oh, the
end credit for Iron Man two is Thor's hammers in
a field. The end credit for Thor is we found
the sky frozen in the water, and that set up
Captain America. I think this is obviously the phases or
the sagas about the end. But I we've said this before.
If you don't have great stuff, that's just go with old,
tried and true set up the next movie. Hey, if
you don't know Fintet's four is coming, look and same
way with the Captain America end credit. It spoiled like, okay,
frozen guys gonna end up on the Avengers. Same thing
now we know okay, we already knew this right like
we knew the Fantastic Four was gonna somehow get to
this universe, but this was the confirmation. And uh uh
this Foggy's Boy in the F four movie before Scoopers can.
I think I'm fine that because I don't think it's
spoiled it for us the fanboys, and I think that
will get people that are the ga to be interested.
The same way with Captain Marvel when her pager went
off in Finny War that became a billion dollar film.
I'm not saying four a big billion dollars, but Dylan,
what you were you caught off guard? Did you like
this aspect of the end credit F four being shown
coming into the six one six here?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean, I it makes a lot of sense just
based off all of the names once again that we got.
It's like, Okay, yeah, there's probably gonna be like a
few factions setting up here. How are they gonna intertwine?
And now we I guess we can kind of assume
that there's gonna be some tension, and I'm really curious
to see what that like. That's where a lot of
this Sam Wilson beef with the New Avengers feels like
maybe a little bit manufactured so that we can have
just like the first act of that movie, or even
the first half, or maybe even the first two acts.
Who even knows, is like, you know, gonna be the
heroes not necessarily fighting each other, although I'm sure they'll
do a little bit of that as well as they
you know, feel each other out a little bit a
little bit of battle until they like actually can have
a conversation figure who each other are. But yeah, I
just could not be more excited for that movie now,
especially because like the Thunderbolts have now like got promoted
in terms of how important they are, and it's like, yes,
at first when we saw their names on the chairs,
were like, wait, what what's going on here? Now it's
like hundred percent they're they're gonna be leading this movie now,
which is which is a crazy thought to have, But yeah,
I just I can't wait for that movie. I was
already super hyped just all the conversations we've had about
it in the last few months, whether it was just
downy or whether it was the chairs, but now yeah,
it's it's it's just it's like pretty close. And when
you said that, that's like, you know, only a couple
of movies away from that, I was like, oh, yeah,
we are only a couple.
Speaker 1: Of movies away, a year away.
Speaker 2: Pretty pretty exciting. That's that's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't fuck it up Brusso's So that's just let's
land that. Yeah, let's land the plane good. And then
five company you guys, you got X men, you got
you got a nice gift waiting for all of us.
You got X Men clean slate start over. It's just nice.
But what about you, Kirkling?
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I was super super hyped. I think this
movie just did such a great job at boosting the
hype on kind of where we are at overall with
the MCU, which is nice, you know, to be having
those thoughts. So yeah, no, I I thought it was
a really really good end credits.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I like the suits too. It was actually reminding me
of Silver Silver Surfer Fantastic Four, like the first Fantastic Four,
like way back, I guess not the very first one,
but the Chris Evans one when he's he's just I
think it's what he's doing, like his Evil Can Evil stunt,
and then he's getting sponsors on like the Fantastic Four suit.
It just was reminded me.
Speaker 2: Of that Xbox logo on Guardian's shoulder there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wasn't quick enough. I wasn't expecting you miscliked.
Speaker 3: That's fantastic.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I guess that's gonna be maybe one
of our first scenes in Doomsday is these two interacting
like the F four and everything and very curious how
we get the only piece which I know multiverse stuff,
but the only piece that's still not fitting, which they'll
make fit is all those og X Men because like, hey,
we know F four, we know why Thunderbolts are in there,
we know the original vendors because Sam's gonna get a
god to your team with Thor and name war and stuff.
But it's like, Okay, how does how does fucking night
Crawler and how does RecA Rebecca remains missed decap And
there's also part of me that just wonders man does
that movie like you know how in Finny were open
with than I was taking out of the ship, Like
does that movie open with Doctor Doom just taking out
that X Men universe? I would not put it past
them to do that, to be honest, like just to
establish and like we said, like that's why they're gonna
be fighting, because Doom can take advantage of them that
you have all these three fracks maybe four that can't
work together. Doom comes in slim pickens, right, But uh,
we'll see. But yeah, I think sounds like we're all
more excited and we'll talk to Taylor in the future
and yeah, hopefully next after nine, get people's thoughts because
I think that they need some wins right now. Then
you get people excited and man, if they can they
have this, if Fantastic four is great, and then you
can also have a great comic con coming up that's
like a great one two three punch to I think,
really emphasize that hype. Maybe even another Chairs day, like
I think they're doing even that first chair day, I'll
count as a win. I think whatever they've done, I
think this year they're doing a good job of Kay,
we got to rebuild the house that we built, you know,
like we got to get it back and standing a word,
I'm not gonna say it's gonna be endgame in Finny
war level, but you know, if you can get the
Avengers one level, happy with that. But uh, mister Muss.
Final thoughts on what would you rate this movie?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, this is funny one where I I
it's coming to super hot and I'm still very hot.
But I feel like as we talk through some things,
it's like, oh, yeah, there are a multitude of little
things that don't really add up or a little goofy,
little clumsy that sort of stuff. So I think what
I'm gonna do for rating on this one. Is I
gonna give it a nine with an asterix?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you fucking stole it. Yeah, Yeah, that's good. That's good. Yeah,
I'll say I'm like, I'm all over, like nine, nine
point two, five, nine point five. At one point I thought, oh,
this could be a ten. It's definitely not gonna be
a ten because I think we talk about there's some
messiness there. So I'm in a good mood. Gonna give
it a nine point five with an asterix because I
need to rewatch. And this is one two things I'll say.
Someone in the chat I can't remember. I didn't shout
them out. That was my bad. EUROG said that they
would watch it again. I think it's been a while.
I mean, it's not okay again. Don't count dead put Wolverine.
That's its own different beasts. Maybe since No Way Home,
there hasn't been a movie where I'm like, oh, I
really want to see this again in theaters. I don't
know if we get a chance to, and we hasn't
seen it. But it's nice to walk at mcu MO
and be like, oh I could see that again and
not be like like I don't know if I need
to see this again right away with Thunderbolts, I get
in a couple of days be like, yeah, I would
happily watch this again and again. Sorry, I apologize. But
when we did our Predictions episode Kirkland, someone in the
chat asked us like, oh, do you think this could
be like a top twenty MCU project. I don't know
if it is right now because I have to look
at my rankings. Let me quickly look, but like the
thought that I'm actually thinking it might goshy, I I
think so. But when a couple of weeks ago, I
completely whoever asked it like wrote that off me, like no,
there's no like, there's no way it's gonna happen, and.
Speaker 2: You'll include shows. Maybe it's not top twenty projects, yeah,
top twenty movies I think for sure.
Speaker 1: Even yeah movies for sure, and even with shows like
I Have What If and even when we're soldier like
I'm I don't love as much as other people. I'm
talking about favorites, not best, So yeah, I would actually
have this in my top twenty frames use stuff. So
that's where like I did not have that on my
Bengal cart at all. Walk in the theater. I thought, Okay,
hopefully good time. But yeah, whenever I see this again,
I'm very excited to watch this again. This is a
good time. And like I said, I hope we're the
mouth spreads, and I hope this does well because I
would very much like Thunderbolts too. Whenever we can get
there with whoever, maybe we kill off some people sure,
then get some new villains. If we lose Red Guardian,
lose Ghosts, but keep Walker, Bucky, Layna, you know, even Ball,
like keep that Core four. But I hope we get more.
I hope we just like Guardians, how we got to
grow with those misfits. I would really like that. And again,
Florence Pew fucking amazing in this, so it's like she
this is her franchise the lead. I don't know if
you can do a Black Widow movie, but Thunderbolts, and
maybe that's what they do. Maybe Thunderbolts one has like
a Moss success Thunderbolts too. Maybe get some bigger villains
in there that are like a bit more of a
draw where it's like, Okay, it's Florence Pew's Bucky and
it's I don't know, like who's a big villain, like
like this one happened, Like, okay, fucking William defos Green Golbs.
Now Thunderbolt wouldn't be like that, but I'm saying, go
get some b A tier villains.
Speaker 2: So okay, sorry, random quick thing on Green Golbin. I
think it was the after the vault scene when we're
getting like that dream sequence or something. There was like
a little laugh in the background, and I thought it
was Norman for a second, and I was like, what
the is about to happen? I think it was just
like the void the void chuckle or something, but I
was I was chirping out.
Speaker 1: For that's our glider, but that's my pitches. If you
got a boot, beef it up. Just get some a
tr villain. But yeah, no, this is a great time.
It was happily, you know, expectations older. So now I'm
I don't get too excited. But that's how I kind
of fell with F four. So yeah, I'm hoping this
trend continues for a little bit. The MCU with Daredevil
was happy with this, is happy with Spider Man, even
whatever fucking friendly neighborhood happy with. So we've had a
nice little streak here, Agatha surprised me. So I'm not
gonna be the mean that saying MC is back. But
I've quite enjoyed the MCU the past six to eight months,
and that's a great thing to say.
Speaker 4: So we're back, We're so bad?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, what a way to end it on me.
I'm gonna be the lowest here. I'm gonna give it
eight point five, a little bit of grievances with.
Speaker 4: Some just the valve stuff.
Speaker 2: No nine, this man says, Or is it like, is
it a solid point five?
Speaker 3: I mean, enjoyment wise, it's it's definitely around that number.
I think if I was just strictly looking at it,
like film wise rate, it would probably even be lower
than that. But uh, yeah, no, I I think it
was a solid time. Yeah, I don't know. I think
I've said kind of all I've had.
Speaker 2: To even last ever again, quickly, do you guys do
you guys like John Walker's beret that he had. Do
you want him to have that in Avengers?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: For people that watch and.
Speaker 1: Or yeah yes, so people can make jokes about it,
but I want second act ones over for him to
lose it. I don't want to braid it continue.
Speaker 2: Going away in the wind or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you made the choice after you know what, Ghosts
and Yolena. We're kind of ship talking.
Speaker 2: It deeply self conscious guy, but he yeah, I can
get my wife back with his hat. I lost my helmet,
had to get a new one.
Speaker 3: Super random. Uh little fact here too. The big Extreme
Theater on the West Side, they had a brand new
projector put in and this was the first film with
the new projector and thumbs up.
Speaker 2: Didn't really opera.
Speaker 4: Looked good.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well there we go, Ley Jon, and we
have done it. Thunderbolts is in the books. Yeah, I'm
sure we'll talk about this in the coming weeks, talk
about box office to fall out. Plus the good thing
is there's gonna be like interviews with casts and FIGG
and they'll talk about what it means. And again, like
May June July, we're two months from Comic Con, So
I think it's great that we're gonna have Fantastic four
and the Avengers roster and this little subplot before we
get there. And yeah, I think we're hopefully in tune
for some great stuff coming up, some good GV juice,
some gasoline and thank you very much, for listening to
this episode. Let us know in the discord YouTube whatever
your thoughts, any theories, anythings we miss because, like I
said on afternin Golden and Geese will talk about U
again in the future, and I promise you it'll not
be boring.