Speaker 1: Today's story is one of infamy. It has gone down
Speaker 1: as one of the most chilling cases in modern North
Speaker 1: American true crime history. Together, two men captured, abused, tortured,
Speaker 1: and murdered their victims, seeing them as mere objects or
Speaker 1: playthings rather than human beings. What these men were capable of,
Speaker 1: what they got away with, and how it all came
Speaker 1: unraveling is nothing short of jaw dropping. Today we discuss
Speaker 1: part one of the story of Leonard Lake and Charles NG.
Speaker 1: My name's Ben.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim true
Speaker 2: crime podcasting.
Speaker 1: The following podcast and material. I am listener. I feel
Speaker 1: like it's been a while since we've had that sound.
Speaker 2: I think it has actually, yeah, missed it.
Speaker 1: We've been recording in the mornings a little bit more lately,
Speaker 1: and it's been coffee, coffee and tea, coffee and tea.
Speaker 1: But now it's the evening, so we get the because
Speaker 1: heck to the yes.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, I'm sitting over here drinking apple juice like the
Speaker 2: true I.
Speaker 1: Am hey, nothing wrong with apple juice.
Speaker 2: I freaking love apple juice. It do be good, damn good,
Speaker 2: it do be good like that we used to go
Speaker 2: through four later jugs like weekly.
Speaker 1: You powered through that. Ye, Like your apple juice was
Speaker 1: chocolate milk.
Speaker 2: I think I had an addiction to it, to be honest,
Speaker 2: and I think it might be coming it's coming back.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, and you were the one that unleashed this.
Speaker 1: Because I bought apple juice once and then.
Speaker 2: I drank it and I'm like, shit, this is not good.
Speaker 1: Wow, apparently I just can't buy apple juice all right now.
Speaker 2: Our fridge is just going to have apple juice like
Speaker 2: going forward.
Speaker 1: Clearly, yeah, it's going to be the case. But apple
Speaker 1: juice aside. We're not here to talk about apple juice,
Speaker 1: but we are going to talk about a little bit
Speaker 1: though before we get into today's case. Is the fact
Speaker 1: that we are uploading two times a week, so this
Speaker 1: is still very new for us. It is the two
Speaker 1: times a week. So if you guys are enjoying this, well,
Speaker 1: I hope you're enjoying it. If you're not enjoying it,
Speaker 1: you're probably not listening to the show very much. So
Speaker 1: I don't know. We're doing it two times a week.
Speaker 1: That's all I'm really going on with. I guess it's exciting.
Speaker 1: I like it. It is. It's getting us double the
Speaker 1: true crime, it's getting us double the episodes, double the
Speaker 1: murderous stuff. But we're also getting into Halloween here coming soon.
Speaker 1: With fall, I kind of want to do a little
Speaker 1: bit more spooky things this October. We always do Halloween Week.
Speaker 1: Halloween Week will of course be making its triumphant return.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that week is amazing with who is r MC
Speaker 2: bringing Jacko? It's been a long time.
Speaker 1: It has been it's been a while, it's been a while.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you can eat me off on a
Speaker 1: tangent again. Things. But Jacko will of course be returning.
Speaker 1: But I think we might throw in because we're doing
Speaker 1: two episodes a week, maybe we'll do like throwing a
Speaker 1: couple like paranormal things here just for the month of October,
Speaker 1: because why not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people like people I think really like paranormal too.
Speaker 1: And it gets you into the spooky it does.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole month of October.
Speaker 1: Spooky season it is. It's pretty awesome and I'm looking
Speaker 1: forward to it. So it's not too far away. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So make sure you guys get your Halloween stuff coming,
Speaker 1: because I'm pretty sure leaves are already starting to change
Speaker 1: at least up here. I think we said that in a.
Speaker 2: Little episode in Northern BC.
Speaker 1: They are Yeah, that's what I said, at least up here.
Speaker 1: So okay, I don't know if you guys are going
Speaker 1: to be ready for this story. This is one that
Speaker 1: is uh, it's a doozy. Buckle your seat belts. This
Speaker 1: is a part one. So I'm going to tell you
Speaker 1: right now. Some of you might want to wait for
Speaker 1: the next episode to come out on Tuesday to listen
Speaker 1: to all of it together. But it is a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well your intro was a lot. Well what did
Speaker 2: you say in there, like play toy or.
Speaker 1: Something, playthings? I think objects or play things rather than
Speaker 1: human beings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just like I cringe when I heard that.
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, okay, yeah, so that's very much so
Speaker 1: this case. But we of course have a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff to build up to those events, which is what
Speaker 1: this this episode is about. Is that build up to it. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we're going to dive in. We're going to build
Speaker 1: this up. Buckle your seat belts, because it is one
Speaker 1: hell of a ride.
Speaker 2: Bumpy ryde eh.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, So starting off, we're taking ourselves back to
Speaker 1: June second, nineteen eighty five. So on this day, specifically,
Speaker 1: the weather in San South San Francisco, California was typical
Speaker 1: for the early summer in the Bay Area. The morning
Speaker 1: held a nice cool air and you know it hit
Speaker 1: your lungs with that refreshing morning breath as it was
Speaker 1: kind of the air was coming off the Pacific Ocean, right,
Speaker 1: And as the day grew into the afternoon, the sun
Speaker 1: perched itself high in the sky and the air began
Speaker 1: to warm up, creating that nice Californian weather that we
Speaker 1: can all picture in our minds. Right, you get Long Beach,
Speaker 1: you know, the surfers, the skaters, the people in the
Speaker 1: roller blades and the tank tops and jean shorts like
Speaker 1: we can picture. We can picture South col all of
Speaker 1: us can. R oh by, That's exactly what this kind
Speaker 1: of day was like. Now, was on this day that
Speaker 1: an innocuous hardware store called South City Lumber and Supply
Speaker 1: in South San Francisco had this event that would create
Speaker 1: a domino effect. Now, this is one that would unravel
Speaker 1: an entire series of murders and tortures that were pinned
Speaker 1: on these specific perpetrators that we will be getting into now.
Speaker 1: The store manager at this South City Lumber and Supply
Speaker 1: was working their normal work day. You know, whether it
Speaker 1: was inventory or whether it was since there manager, managing
Speaker 1: staff and customer service complaints, who knows what they were
Speaker 1: doing their regular day. And now is that we're going
Speaker 1: about the store, they noticed some odd activity from someone
Speaker 1: who was shopping in the store. They noticed this individual
Speaker 1: was in the midst of shoplifting. Ooh dang. Another man
Speaker 1: was attempting to steal what was a table vice and
Speaker 1: it's a simple clamping tool that was valued at approximately
Speaker 1: seventy five dollars, So it's a good chunk of change.
Speaker 1: Seventy five bucks is in cheap, especially when we've taken
Speaker 1: ourselves all the way back to nineteen eighty five, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the store manager notified the store security immediately, and
Speaker 1: they watched the man leave the store with the vice.
Speaker 1: He clearly was not going to pay, so they followed
Speaker 1: him outside and into the parking lot, and the security
Speaker 1: guard confronted the man when he was at his vehicle. Quickly,
Speaker 1: the man discarded the object into the trunk of his car,
Speaker 1: and this man, as he was described to be an
Speaker 1: Asian male, then took off running. Now the guard wasn't
Speaker 1: able to catch up with him. It's a little unclear
Speaker 1: if he actually tried to catch them. I mean, he
Speaker 1: had the merchandise here in an open trunk of the
Speaker 1: vehicle as our need to catch them. But regardless, the
Speaker 1: guy took off and he got away. So the police
Speaker 1: were quickly called, you know, to report the theft and
Speaker 1: the incident and everything, to which they soon responded and
Speaker 1: arrived to where this car was sitting in the parking lot.
Speaker 1: Now this car was a brown Honda, and it was
Speaker 1: parked with the vice as I mentioned, in the open trunk.
Speaker 1: The police conducted a search of the open vehicle, and
Speaker 1: they soon discovered that there was more than just the
Speaker 1: discarded vice inside. In fact, it discovered a gun case
Speaker 1: that contained a twenty two caliber revolver equipped with an
Speaker 1: illegal suppressor or some people call it a silencer. Shortly
Speaker 1: after this, the man, sorry, another man, came out of
Speaker 1: the store and he gave his name and identified it
Speaker 1: and identified it identified there he goes not too decent
Speaker 1: at the end of that, identified himself as Robin Stapley,
Speaker 1: and he told police that he had just paid for
Speaker 1: the vice that his friend had just attempted to steal.
Speaker 1: So he's just like it's all good, Like I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: Like my friend tried to steal this. I just went
Speaker 1: and I just paid for it. It's all good. Don't
Speaker 1: worry about this, right, He's trying to like brush this
Speaker 1: under the rug. Okay, Yeah, Now whether the guy did
Speaker 1: or did not pay for this is actually irrelevant at
Speaker 1: this point because their attention was now turned to the
Speaker 1: gun that was illegally modified sitting in this Honda car. Right,
Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm pretty sure even if he did
Speaker 1: pay for it, like it's it's still an attempted theft,
Speaker 1: so you still got a contact police and charges too pressed.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't see that easy just to get
Speaker 2: out of it really, right.
Speaker 1: And that's what this guy was trying to do. Now,
Speaker 1: police notice that this guy was a little bit nervous
Speaker 1: in this whole situation, which I mean most people get
Speaker 1: nervous talking to cops anyways, even if you don't do anything.
Speaker 2: I'm always like nervous too.
Speaker 1: It's weird. I feel like even if like if I'm
Speaker 1: just walking by, like at a fair or some local event,
Speaker 1: there's just like police walking around just patrolling, right, I
Speaker 1: feel like I gotta.
Speaker 2: Like, like, shit, what am I hiding?
Speaker 1: I had to like stand up straighter and like try
Speaker 1: and act casual, not look at them sideways like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean I do. It's really weird. So
Speaker 1: this guy was acting a little bit nervous now regarding this,
Speaker 1: because this guy this was his vehicle. The man was
Speaker 1: quickly apprehended and he was actually taken to the police
Speaker 1: station to be be questioned about the firearm. The firearm
Speaker 1: that they had found also along to be questioned with
Speaker 1: the robbery incident as well. Now it didn't take long though,
Speaker 1: for the man to actually identify his friend who had
Speaker 1: fled from the store. It was on the drive from
Speaker 1: that parking lot at the hardware store to the police
Speaker 1: station that he told the officer driving the car that
Speaker 1: his friend's name was Charles Ing. Now his own identity.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, he did hide for as long
Speaker 1: as he could. When they arrived at the station and
Speaker 1: began searching through the possessions on the man, they found
Speaker 1: his ID card that he had had to match the
Speaker 1: name that he had given Robin Stapeley. How Well, however,
Speaker 1: nothing else on the ID card did match just the name.
Speaker 1: This clearly wasn't the same individual.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, I see, Okay, it was not his ID. Okay,
Speaker 2: Oh man, they're going to be getting in some trouble here.
Speaker 2: This isn't good.
Speaker 1: Oh just you wait, because shit it. I guarant fucking
Speaker 1: tee you you will not see the turn this takes
Speaker 1: here shortly. Okay, I fucking guarantee you take take a
Speaker 1: wild guess on just some wild shit that you think
Speaker 1: could happen in the situation, and I guarantee you wrong.
Speaker 2: Seriously, yes, so you're just setting me up to fail.
Speaker 1: I guarantee you will not guess it. It's just so
Speaker 1: left wing, You're like, you'll be like, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking that these are the guys that are doing
Speaker 2: bad shit. Like, clearly I can't be wrong with that,
Speaker 2: can I?
Speaker 1: Well, obviously, but I mean, what happens here at the
Speaker 1: police station?
Speaker 2: Oh, I have no idea, Okay, I have no idea.
Speaker 1: Well, they're definitely suspicious of this guy because he's got
Speaker 1: given a false false name with a potentially stolen ID. Right,
Speaker 1: so they were very suspicious, suspicious of this individual, and
Speaker 1: they put him in a room for questioning. And it
Speaker 1: didn't take long for him to actually come clean. He
Speaker 1: told officers that his real name was Leonard Lake. He
Speaker 1: said he was a fugitive, and he told officers, the
Speaker 1: ones that was questioning him, that he would make an
Speaker 1: official statement. So he asked for a pen and a paper.
Speaker 1: You know, you got to make a statement, right, you
Speaker 1: got to write some stuff down. So he asked her pen, paper,
Speaker 1: and a glass of water. Now, the officers left to
Speaker 1: go grab the pen and paper and brought it back
Speaker 1: to him, and in that time that they said, Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll give you a minute to write all this down,
Speaker 1: you know, make your statement on the paper, make it official. Whatever.
Speaker 1: They left him in the room by himself. By the
Speaker 1: time they had come back, the man who was sitting
Speaker 1: in the room by himself, Leonard, was laying on the
Speaker 1: floor convulsing violently.
Speaker 2: Oh geez.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they didn't know what the fuck was going on,
Speaker 1: whether it was epilepsy or something else, but he was
Speaker 1: reportedly flopping around like a fish out of water. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh.
Speaker 2: Because I'm also assuming that they probably like you know,
Speaker 2: patted him down or searched him or whatever.
Speaker 1: Definitely, yeah, no, they padded him down, they searched him,
Speaker 1: especially considering he had a fighter arm in his car,
Speaker 1: right yep. So they did a thorough search he he
Speaker 1: had nothing on him, so they rushed him to the
Speaker 1: hospital via ambulance to give him medical attention that he needed.
Speaker 1: But it didn't take long for them to get some news.
Speaker 1: The police received news from the hospital that Lake was
Speaker 1: brain dead. What the he though his heart was still pumping,
Speaker 1: his brain nothing there, He was dead, his brain dead, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: So at the hospital they would take him off life
Speaker 1: support and they did an autopsy on him to try
Speaker 1: and figure out what the fuck happened. And what they
Speaker 1: discovered was the last thing anyone would suspect. Dunt, dun, dunt.
Speaker 1: Just like I said, right, you're not gonna fucking see
Speaker 1: this coming. Leonard Lake died of cyanide poising poisoning. They
Speaker 1: found that he had a capsule of cyanide sewn into
Speaker 1: the hem of his shirt and he ate the cyanide
Speaker 1: while in police custody.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, okay, yeah, I would never have guessed that. Nope, Like, oh,
Speaker 2: like it was just there kind of in case he
Speaker 2: gets some shit that he just takes this, I guess.
Speaker 1: Eh, you bet youa wow? Okay, so they were able
Speaker 1: to determine that the tablet was a gel tablet, and
Speaker 1: it would take about twenty to twenty five minutes or
Speaker 1: so for the cyanide to really reach his bloodstream and
Speaker 1: affect him.
Speaker 2: YEI.
Speaker 1: This puts the timeline of him ingesting the tablet around
Speaker 1: when he started talking to the police in the lumberyard.
Speaker 2: Okay, so he that's interesting that he didn't just run
Speaker 2: too or something. Eh, you know, like maybe or maybe
Speaker 2: he just thought that he could get away with it,
Speaker 2: if with the story or who.
Speaker 1: Knows, and maybe the moment he was put in the
Speaker 1: backseat of car.
Speaker 2: That's when he's like dang, yeah, yeah, you know, I
Speaker 2: do say like, I do really like his name. He's
Speaker 2: probably a terrible person, but Leonard Lake, like that's kind.
Speaker 1: Of a good name, kind of rolls off the tongue. Yeah, strong, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Now there are I do want to say this. There
Speaker 1: are some stories suggesting that he actually ate this tablet
Speaker 1: inside interrogation room while like, you know, he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I need dependent paper and while the officers fetched it,
Speaker 1: they ate it or he ate it and then came
Speaker 1: back and he was convulsing. As far as my research goes,
Speaker 1: that is false. I have seen in some documentaries officers
Speaker 1: who were directly dealing with this case reported that the
Speaker 1: reports from the hospital were twenty to twenty five minutes
Speaker 1: prior to so while they did leave the room and
Speaker 1: came back to him convulsing, the reports state that the
Speaker 1: tablet would have been ingested twenty to twenty five minutes.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, yeah, because you wouldn't think it'd be quite
Speaker 2: as quick as him just ingesting it when they left.
Speaker 1: The room there, Yeah, exactly. So just a clarification on
Speaker 1: that one, because that's actually one of the things that
Speaker 1: really brought this one to my attention was this highlight
Speaker 1: of oh, when their backs were turned in the interrogation room,
Speaker 1: he ate the tablet. So that is a false piece
Speaker 1: to this story. But either way, the results are the same.
Speaker 1: Leonard committed suicide by ingesting this tablet. Now. What they
Speaker 1: did also find though, inside that room, was when he
Speaker 1: was writing that statement, letter, that confession, or whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it. He didn't actually write a statement.
Speaker 1: He did instead write a letter or if you will,
Speaker 1: technically a suicide note to a woman named Lynn oh Man,
Speaker 1: and it read.
Speaker 2: This, oh Man, we got to hear it.
Speaker 1: Dear Lynn, I love you, I forgive you. Freedom is
Speaker 1: better than all else. I leave it up to you
Speaker 1: to tell the law about the horrors of this house.
Speaker 1: Oh geez, yeah, that's okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's h hmm.
Speaker 1: Let that sink in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding, I mean that is something I guess
Speaker 2: to leave behind there.
Speaker 1: No, that's something for sure. Yeah. So what started as
Speaker 1: a standard shoplifting event turned into a suicide and criptied
Speaker 1: suicide letter. I guess that's one that seemed like a
Speaker 1: suicide that also seemed to be very well planned out,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, because clearly he expected this well at
Speaker 1: some point. Yeah, so there's some some shit that the
Speaker 1: police are scratching their head head over. They're shook.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they can just let that be.
Speaker 1: No, and like, what the fuck did they just stumble into? Right, So,
Speaker 1: their next steps would be to identify the man who
Speaker 1: ran from earlier that day. So, as Leonard had told them,
Speaker 1: he was a man by the name of Charles NG. Now,
Speaker 1: a quick background search on the man's name showed some
Speaker 1: troubling insight. Charles NG joined the United States Marine Corps
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty, but this ushery. But his time in
Speaker 1: the military was anything but commendable, especially when we think
Speaker 1: of like, you know, marines or whatever. Yeah, he's not
Speaker 1: so much a stand up part of the military. He
Speaker 1: was caught stealing automatic firearms, including machine guns, from the
Speaker 1: armory at the Marine Corps base in Hawaii. As a result,
Speaker 1: he was court martialed and convicted of theft. This conviction
Speaker 1: led to a prison sentence of fourteen years being given
Speaker 1: to him. However, before he could serve this time, Charles
Speaker 1: managed to escape custody and began life as a fugitive.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay, now things get a little bit dicey
Speaker 1: here because Charles was not an American citizen. See, he
Speaker 1: was born in Hong Kong. As I mentioned earlier, he
Speaker 1: was described as an Asian male. He was born in
Speaker 1: Hong Kong, and he held a Canadian citizenship. Yet he
Speaker 1: managed to lie to the United States military even though
Speaker 1: he's not holding a United States citizenship and still joined
Speaker 1: the army. Wow military. Sorry, So let's just back up
Speaker 1: a bit and take a look at some of his
Speaker 1: younger years that led up to all this. So, during
Speaker 1: Charles's teenage years, he was often characterized as a troubled
Speaker 1: and isolated individual. Leading to multiple expulsions from various schools.
Speaker 1: At the age of fifteen, after being caught shoplifting his
Speaker 1: his father insisted that he attend Bretham Grammar School, which
Speaker 1: is a boarding school in North Yorkshire, England. However, his
Speaker 1: time there was short lived, as he was expelled for
Speaker 1: stealing from fellow students and subsequently returned to Hong Kong.
Speaker 1: As it turns out, Charles was somewhat of a kleptomaniac. Now,
Speaker 1: Charles obtained his Canadian citizenship through his father, who was
Speaker 1: a naturalized Canadian citizen, and he had acquired this citizenship
Speaker 1: even before moving to United States. But eventually he would
Speaker 1: make his move to the US in nineteen seventy eight
Speaker 1: on a student visa, enrolling in biology at the College
Speaker 1: of Notre Dame in Belmont, California. His academic career was
Speaker 1: brief and he dropped out just after one semester so
Speaker 1: following a hit and run incident shortly later, he would
Speaker 1: join the United States Marine Corps to evade legal consequences.
Speaker 1: Like he was the he was the one that hit yes,
Speaker 1: and then he joined the Marine Corps trying to evade
Speaker 1: the consequences of that incident. Now being that he was
Speaker 1: in the US illegally after he was you know, let
Speaker 1: go from the Marines, it would complicate the whole efforts
Speaker 1: to try and track him down since now he's running,
Speaker 1: they need to question him for all this, right as
Speaker 1: he could easily potentially flee the country to either Hong
Speaker 1: Kong or Canada since he is a citizen of both right,
Speaker 1: most likely holding a passport for both.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So all in all, authorities knew that they had their
Speaker 1: work cutout for them trying to track this dude down.
Speaker 1: As they did so, they continued to investigate Leonard Lake
Speaker 1: and how he played into all of this. Looking into
Speaker 1: the brown Honda car that Leonard was driving gave a
Speaker 1: few more hints into exactly what was going on. Some
Speaker 1: of the things that they found inside, and some of
Speaker 1: the hints and stuff I'll say that they found were
Speaker 1: a stolen a stun gun, paper, some papers belonging to
Speaker 1: people of various names, several different pieces of identification belonging
Speaker 1: to multiple different people. A single bullet hole in the
Speaker 1: car that seemed to have been fired from the inside,
Speaker 1: pointed towards a front seat that exited the roof. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: seemed like it was fired from the back seat.
Speaker 2: There's some shit going down in this vehicle.
Speaker 1: Hey. Oh well, when they ran the serial number for
Speaker 1: the car, they found it also belonged to someone else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was sort of assuming.
Speaker 1: The car was registered to a man by the name
Speaker 1: of Paul Costner. Now the kicker, Paul had been missing
Speaker 1: for seven months, so Paul had never come back from
Speaker 1: showing his car to a person who was interested in
Speaker 1: purchasing it when it was for sale in a newspaper ad.
Speaker 2: Okay, dang, you know I wasn't. It's not surprising to
Speaker 2: me at all that the vehicles stolen, but to also
Speaker 2: have the person the owner missing, yes, holy shit.
Speaker 1: So upon further investigation in the car, you know what
Speaker 1: luminol spray is, right, the spray luminall have light right, yep.
Speaker 1: So you know I said, there was that bullet hole.
Speaker 2: Exiting Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: They found blood covering the inside of the car. Yeah,
Speaker 1: with patterns of highs patterns that match sorry, high velocity
Speaker 1: gun splatter.
Speaker 2: So like, this guy was trying to sell this vehicle
Speaker 2: and there was probably someone driving it and then someone
Speaker 2: in the back seat, and then they just shot him.
Speaker 2: Basically is what you're saying. Yep, holy shit, this isn't
Speaker 2: This has not been the first case where shit's gone
Speaker 2: down on a test drive.
Speaker 1: Nope, there's been actually a few.
Speaker 2: Oh man, I just think selling vehicles is scary shit.
Speaker 1: It definitely definitely can be.
Speaker 2: Also, I was washing my car to day, and thank
Speaker 2: you very much, I was not as confident in the
Speaker 2: car wash bay as I usually am.
Speaker 1: My apologies, Is that good.
Speaker 2: For I'm a previous episode if you're not certain? No,
Speaker 2: And then I was even sitting in there after, like
Speaker 2: about to leave, and I had to lock my door,
Speaker 2: like I was just like, good God.
Speaker 1: That's good. Lock those fucking doors.
Speaker 2: It's good. But it's just like one place I was
Speaker 2: never afraid of before.
Speaker 1: Understandably under Like, in all honesty, who would just be
Speaker 1: afraid in a car wash? But it's it's the case
Speaker 1: like you have this, you have to be You have
Speaker 1: this guy who thinks he's just selling his car, and
Speaker 1: now he's he's missing, and investigators are like, I don't
Speaker 1: know if we're.
Speaker 2: Going to fucking find well, yeah, he's most likely like
Speaker 2: shot dead.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So so this case seemed to continue to take
Speaker 1: more and more darker turns, and it took these turns
Speaker 1: faster than any of the authorities, police, or investigators, or
Speaker 1: anyone for that net that matter, could prepare themselves for.
Speaker 1: But they did what they could. They kept up as
Speaker 1: best they could, and they continued their investigation, and in
Speaker 1: doing so, the next step was seeking out Leonard's mother,
Speaker 1: you know, next of kin and family. So they sought
Speaker 1: her out for questioning, and when they arrived at her home,
Speaker 1: they also found someone else there with her. It was
Speaker 1: a woman by the name of Clara Lynn Blas. Now
Speaker 1: Clara Lynn was Leonard's ex wife.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's didn't he write the letter? It was
Speaker 2: to Lynn or something?
Speaker 1: Wasn't it he wrote the letter to Lynn? Okay? Yes,
Speaker 1: authorities immediately drew that connection as well. Okay, however, I
Speaker 1: mean like they can't be sure all shit, that's not me,
Speaker 1: like whatever, so they believe it was written to Clara Lynn.
Speaker 1: But especially upon like just like, hey, you know, your
Speaker 1: husband committed ex husband committed suicide and we're investigating potential
Speaker 1: murder and shit, like, I don't think they're really going
Speaker 1: to bring that up too much right away. They're trying
Speaker 1: to really to be nice about this and really, you know,
Speaker 1: be friendly and get as much information as they could.
Speaker 1: So that letter, aside her name, Actually, we also did
Speaker 1: appear in some papers that were found in that brown
Speaker 1: haunted car. Okay, I told you there were some various
Speaker 1: papers that were found. Yeah, there was an electric bill
Speaker 1: that was found under one of the passenger seats with
Speaker 1: her name on it. So when they asked her about
Speaker 1: this electric bill, you know where it came from and
Speaker 1: why it was in his car, she told police that
Speaker 1: it was an electric bill for a cabin that they
Speaker 1: had up in northern California. Okay, So the police like, oh,
Speaker 1: you got a cabin. You know that's nice. You know,
Speaker 1: do you mind if we take a look around at
Speaker 1: the cabin. At the cabin, yes. So they did not
Speaker 1: have a warrant at this point, so it was all
Speaker 1: up to a consensual search of property, which people.
Speaker 2: Will sometimes do.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So they asked like, hey, can you drive up
Speaker 1: there right now with us and take a look at
Speaker 1: the search And Clara Lynn was like, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: busy today, I can't, but I can meet you there tomorrow.
Speaker 1: So if you want to go up there, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you guys can search property tomorrow. I'll I'll go up
Speaker 1: and unlock it and let you in.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, but also like that gives her a day
Speaker 2: to get shit done.
Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly what the police thought. So they're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's fantastic, thank you, but please do not go up
Speaker 1: to the cabin in the meantime, like just stay away
Speaker 1: from there. They like they explicitly told her this. They
Speaker 1: did not want her going inside to fuck with anything,
Speaker 1: right right, which she agreed. She's like, yeah, you bet,
Speaker 1: no problem. I'll see you guys up there tomorrow.
Speaker 2: She's definitely going up there.
Speaker 1: When they met up with her the next day, she
Speaker 1: admitted to being up there the day before because she
Speaker 1: said Leonard was a bit messy and she wanted to
Speaker 1: tidy a bit.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I'm surprised, kid, because the police could have,
Speaker 2: you know, just like parked there or whatever and waited
Speaker 2: to see, like they could have without a warrant. Couldn't
Speaker 2: they have?
Speaker 1: They could have And don't quote me on this. I
Speaker 1: believe that they were doing some surveillance on it, but
Speaker 1: there was some holes in the surveillance. They weren't able
Speaker 1: to have anyone there twenty four to.
Speaker 2: Seven, right, so well, yeah, because they're not really like
Speaker 2: sure what they got here yet and stuff exactly.
Speaker 1: And it's not like they can just be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we sent someone up there because we have a warrant
Speaker 1: to search this place. It's like you can't just do that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So they were trying to do their best and with
Speaker 1: the resources they had, but they were unable to to
Speaker 1: survey it for the next twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So I mean when they talked to her though, they're like,
Speaker 1: you fucking went there yesterday, you bitched like. They were
Speaker 1: not happy obviously, but it was too little, too late.
Speaker 1: And again, no warrant, it's a consensual search. There's nothing
Speaker 1: they can do. It's her property. She has every fucking
Speaker 1: right to do that, right. So they just all they
Speaker 1: could do was was bite their lip, grit their teeth,
Speaker 1: and just go along with what was happening. So they
Speaker 1: walked up to the to the cabin, and as they
Speaker 1: were doing so, the police noticed that the cabin wasn't
Speaker 1: the only structure on the property. Okay, there was also
Speaker 1: a cinder block outbuilding kind of like the size of
Speaker 1: a shed, and they asked Carolyn about that and if
Speaker 1: they could take a look inside that as well. Carolyn
Speaker 1: told them they didn't have it, that she didn't have
Speaker 1: a key, and that she wasn't able to let them in.
Speaker 1: But she'll let them in the cabin and they can
Speaker 1: take a look around inside. So not wanting to push
Speaker 1: their lock or anything. Again, consensual search.
Speaker 2: You gotta play this, yeah, no kidding, They're like playing
Speaker 2: a game right now.
Speaker 1: All they have to do is piss her off in
Speaker 1: one shape or form and she kicks them out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's done, and it's fine, like she's allowed to really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they are on fucking thin ice and tip
Speaker 1: toeing as carefully as they can so they can get
Speaker 1: whatever they can while they're inside, if they can even
Speaker 1: make it inside. Now, luckily enough, Carolyn did unlock the
Speaker 1: cabin and did let them inside. Now here's a good time,
Speaker 1: I think take to take a bit of a step back,
Speaker 1: and let's take a look at who Leonard Lake was.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the fuck's in the cabin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, that's why we're taking a bit of
Speaker 1: a step back. The free Leonard Lake, from an early
Speaker 1: age exhibited troubling behavior, particularly an unsettling fascination with pornography.
Speaker 1: His interest focused also in violent imagery that depicted control
Speaker 1: over women, and his fixation only grew as he matured
Speaker 1: in his adult years. Now, he was also still rather
Speaker 1: cruel as a child, particularly towards animals.
Speaker 2: Oh, I knew that you were going to say that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was known to kill small creatures allegedly and
Speaker 1: also dissolve the remains in different sorts of chemicals.
Speaker 2: Cool. Yeah that sounds great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not really good. God, I know you were being facetious,
Speaker 1: But whos the fuck does that? Serial killers?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Psychopaths? Yeah, yeah, I mean, of course, as I just mentioned,
Speaker 1: psychopaths are someone who have the tendency to do these
Speaker 1: as these Like it shows a lack of empathy and
Speaker 1: the develop of antisocial traits that are often linked to psychopathy. Right,
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's a normal thing that well, not normal thing,
Speaker 1: but it's a pattern scene in developing people with psychopathy.
Speaker 2: I mean seeing how they dissolve though too in chemicals
Speaker 2: is like next level.
Speaker 1: I feel like, don't get me wrong, I have that
Speaker 1: morbid curiosity too, Like I'm curious. I'm not about to
Speaker 1: fucking do it, I'm about to kill an animal to
Speaker 1: do it, but I'm interested in the results.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually feel slightly curious too, but like not
Speaker 2: to kill anything to go about that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, see I'm more likely to like buy a
Speaker 1: t bone steak and cut like a couple chunks off
Speaker 1: after I'm done, and like, you know, see what doesolve
Speaker 1: something like that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean you can probably google this too
Speaker 2: and find it out, you probably assuming.
Speaker 1: You probably can. I mean, if you check the MSDS
Speaker 1: for any of these chemicals, it's really gonna show you anyways. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which the labels it? You can you can check the websites.
Speaker 1: My Safety is coming out right now, so you can
Speaker 1: check the label of any chemical. It will relay you
Speaker 1: to the MSDS, most likely online nowadays, and you can
Speaker 1: look it all up. It'll tell you all about that shit.
Speaker 1: So anyways. In nineteen sixty four, Leonard enlisted in the
Speaker 1: United States Marine Corps, where he you know, has already
Speaker 1: troubling personality continued to manifest. He served during the Vietnam War,
Speaker 1: where exposure to the brutal realities of combat further desensitized
Speaker 1: him to violence and suffering. You know, he's already killing animals,
Speaker 1: trying to dissolve their bodies, and now he's going out
Speaker 1: and seeing violence firsthand in war, shooting at people that
Speaker 1: sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now. His time in the Marines ended though with a
Speaker 1: medical discharge in nineteen seventy one after being diagnosed with
Speaker 1: schizoid personality disorder. Things keep piling up. After leaving the military,
Speaker 1: Leonard married Carolyn BelAZ also known as Cricket. That was
Speaker 1: a nickname for okay now. Their marriage was a bit
Speaker 1: tumultuos us, with Leonard's disturbing behaviors and fantasies eventually leading
Speaker 1: to their divorce. Despite this, they did remain in contact
Speaker 1: and the two are still in each other's.
Speaker 2: Lives well, clearly because she was at his mom's house
Speaker 2: right exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean they still share the cabin together.
Speaker 1: They were. Though they were divorced, they were still evolved
Speaker 1: in each other's lives, one shape or form. So Leonard
Speaker 1: was struggling to maintain stable employment as well. He was
Speaker 1: often drifting through various different jobs, including working as a
Speaker 1: radar technician, but his inability to hold down full time
Speaker 1: a full time job contributed to his growing frustration, which
Speaker 1: would lead eventually into him engaging in petty criminal activity,
Speaker 1: you know, theft and fraud, basically to try and support
Speaker 1: himself earn a living that way. Right. Now, Throughout this period,
Speaker 1: Leonard would become obsessed, and I mean obsessed with a book,
Speaker 1: a nomine titled The Collector by John Fowls, which was
Speaker 1: first published in nineteen sixty three. Now, this book basically
Speaker 1: became this dude's bibles.
Speaker 2: Oh really, hey, okay.
Speaker 1: I mean like he's not like preaching it by any means,
Speaker 1: but it's definitely like how he fucking lives his life.
Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, like he's he knows it from
Speaker 2: like front.
Speaker 1: You bets he'd probably tell you every freaking word in
Speaker 1: that book from start to finish.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, this novel The Collector centers around and a character
Speaker 1: by the name of Frederick Klegg. Now, Frederick is a
Speaker 1: socially awkward and emotionally detached young man who works as
Speaker 1: a clerk and spends his spare time collecting butterflies. Frederick
Speaker 1: is an outsider, much like Leonard, right, someone who feels
Speaker 1: disconnected from the world around him and harbors deep feelings
Speaker 1: of inadequacy. Now, Frederick becomes obsessed with a young woman
Speaker 1: by the name of Miranda Gray, and his obsession with
Speaker 1: Miranda grows over time, but rather than pursuing Miranda in
Speaker 1: a normal relationship fashion, right like, hey, you want to
Speaker 1: go out for coffee or something like that, he instead
Speaker 1: develops a delusiona belief that he can possess Miranda, much
Speaker 1: like one of his butterfly specimens in his collection. Oly shit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was a very disturbing man, to say least, and
Speaker 1: so was Leonard.
Speaker 2: Uh huh.
Speaker 1: So now police were standing outside this man's cabin getting
Speaker 1: ready to search it with his ex wife's permission and
Speaker 1: no warrant in hand.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you almost wonder if she like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I'm just assuming some sketchy shits in there. Well, she
Speaker 2: would have found out though she went the day before,
Speaker 2: but she could have been like missing things that would
Speaker 2: catch the police's attention.
Speaker 1: That's very true, because if she's involved in this and
Speaker 1: she did go clean some shit up, she's thinking she
Speaker 1: might have got everything. But did she Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well yeah, does she know exactly? Does she really know
Speaker 2: her ex husban thing?
Speaker 1: Right? Well, she might still really know though too, But
Speaker 1: just because she really knows him, does she really know everything?
Speaker 1: Because all it takes is say a picture or say
Speaker 1: a receipt, yeah, or in this case something else. But
Speaker 1: I'll tell you about it here in just one secon
Speaker 1: because that is the exact track that it leads to.
Speaker 1: So once that she opened the door, she unlocked it,
Speaker 1: you know, the key opened it wide and let the
Speaker 1: police come inside, presumably taking their shoes off first. I
Speaker 1: don't know in Canada we do that. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if you guys do in the States or if your
Speaker 1: cabin I don't know, but as polights take a shoes off,
Speaker 1: so I'm sure that they, I kind of don't they did,
Speaker 1: who knows. But once they were inside they found a
Speaker 1: few odd things, one of them being when they entered
Speaker 1: the bedroom, the bed now there were holes drilled in
Speaker 1: the bed posts and in the floor. Now it seemed
Speaker 1: like these were specifically placed there for restraints to be
Speaker 1: attached and tie someone or strain them down on the bed. Right.
Speaker 1: I do want to say Devil's advocate here, It in
Speaker 1: itself is not anything incriminating. No, many people get fairly kinky.
Speaker 1: You don't tie each other up on the bed, you know,
Speaker 1: as long as you got a safe word and you
Speaker 1: play it cool, hey have at it. Yeah, And this,
Speaker 1: you know could very well be the case, because, especially
Speaker 1: in this situation, there was also a camera on a
Speaker 1: tripod pointing towards the bed, which again many people, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: they film themselves, and it just seemed to.
Speaker 2: Make money from that.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe they've gotten only fans. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: that's what this situation seemed like. Potential restraints in the bed,
Speaker 1: a video camera sitting over here pointed at the bed. However,
Speaker 1: just because this doesn't seem like would be incriminating doesn't
Speaker 1: mean it's not incriminating, because when an officer turned and
Speaker 1: looked at the camera, it became very incriminating the moment
Speaker 1: they recognized the camera equipment. It was stolen. Okay, the equipment.
Speaker 2: I was like, what the fuck's wrong with the camera?
Speaker 1: But okay, okay, this equipment belonged to a person by
Speaker 1: the name of Harvey dub See. There was reported equipment
Speaker 1: taken from their home when he and his entire family
Speaker 1: went missing eleven months ago.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, holy shit. And this is a different person
Speaker 2: than who owned the Honda. Yes it is, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: because I remember that was like eleven months ago too.
Speaker 1: That was seven months ago.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, Okay, seven eleven.
Speaker 1: Seven, there you go, seven eleven. So while officers were
Speaker 1: on the phone actually matching the serial number with this
Speaker 1: because the officer, the officer specifically who was on the
Speaker 1: case the individual with the Honda right, same officer who
Speaker 1: was on the job for this family, never drew the
Speaker 1: link between them before, but recognized this equipment was on
Speaker 1: the phone with you know whoever it was at the
Speaker 1: office and had the case files. They're reading out the
Speaker 1: serial number and she's just like the last three members
Speaker 1: or this, this, this, and he's.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, yeah, good on him the way.
Speaker 1: So in he's doing his job for sure, like fully committing,
Speaker 1: making sure it's happening. And in this moment, as this
Speaker 1: is happening, Carolyn ended the consented search of the cabin.
Speaker 1: She told the officers that they were there long enough
Speaker 1: and asked them to leave.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because shit's going down. They're gonna be able
Speaker 2: to get a warrant. Now. I feel like you think probably.
Speaker 1: Probably, maybe, yeah, but this is exactly what you're talking about, Like,
Speaker 1: does she know every Well, yeah, she probably never even thought,
Speaker 1: oh this is stolen. She might not even know that
Speaker 1: that was stolen. And even if she did know, how
Speaker 1: would they fucking know it's stolen. Yeah, because one of
Speaker 1: the fucking officers was on that case. So the dude
Speaker 1: that's fucking stolen from and you just let into your
Speaker 1: fucking cabin, bitch, that's how holy boom. Yeah geez. So,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, the cabin wasn't the only thing on
Speaker 1: the property though, As officers were forced out of the
Speaker 1: cabin and they were leaving a property that couldn't help
Speaker 1: but look over it at that small cinder block outbuild,
Speaker 1: No kidding, they couldn't help but wonder what was inside.
Speaker 1: But in order to search it and search the cabin further,
Speaker 1: they would need to obtain a search warrant, and by
Speaker 1: then who knows what sort of evidence Carol could Carolyn
Speaker 1: could dispose of by then. And that is the end
Speaker 1: of part one.
Speaker 2: Okay, I've been stressed for the last ten minutes because
Speaker 2: or the last eight minutes, like because I've been watching
Speaker 2: your eyes look at the clock and stuff. I'm like, shit,
Speaker 2: is he even gonna tell us what the fuck's in
Speaker 2: the cabin? Like I was getting like antsie you can
Speaker 2: see here. But also, oh man, being a police officer
Speaker 2: so hard because I feel like I just like want
Speaker 2: to go back there that night and bust in what
Speaker 2: you can. I know you can, but it's just like
Speaker 2: it must just be so frustrating, right like, because like
Speaker 2: at my old jobs, like you have to get permission
Speaker 2: to do things, but it was never the extent of
Speaker 2: like solving such like intense stuff, right like, it would
Speaker 2: just eat me alive. I think, having to wait, like
Speaker 2: to get a warm and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's that's the thing. If you don't get
Speaker 1: a warrant any when you find the problem, you find
Speaker 1: the issue, you find the evidence, it's all fucking void,
Speaker 1: and then the person gets to walk.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I know, I know that.
Speaker 1: Could have been the key to saving people's lives and
Speaker 1: putting that person away forever.
Speaker 2: Dang, I want to hear more, really bad.
Speaker 1: Well you're gonna hear more on Tuesday when we cover
Speaker 1: part two of this case, and trust me, it continues
Speaker 1: to go fucking down hill.
Speaker 2: I think Part two is going to be worse and
Speaker 2: worse and worse. You think, yeah, well, well, because you've
Speaker 2: compared this case to something, and that other case you're
Speaker 2: comparing it to is a bunch of shit, So.
Speaker 1: Don't look too don't look into that too much. That comparison, okay,
Speaker 1: because I don't I don't want you to get certain
Speaker 1: expectations out of it.
Speaker 2: Okay, okays are real old.
Speaker 1: Wow, all right, I don't know if that was a
Speaker 1: jab at me.
Speaker 2: No, oh, it was a jab at these nas.
Speaker 1: Motherfuckers, gotcha. Okay, Okay, Well, I just don't want you
Speaker 1: developing expectations of how this case is going to go. Okay, Okay, okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: trust me, it's fucking dark, it's fucking bad. But just
Speaker 1: take this case on its own and we'll get there. Okay, Okay.
Speaker 2: Then thankfully we don't have to wait quite as long.
Speaker 1: Yes, because we are uploading twice a week exactly, so
Speaker 1: Tuesday we'll come up with part two. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: If you guys want to check out more of our
Speaker 1: social links, they are on the description of this podcast Instagram, Facebook, YouTube,
Speaker 1: you name it, Patreon. You can sign up and you
Speaker 1: can get all the exclusive behind.
Speaker 2: The scenes, including a ton of extra episodes because we
Speaker 2: release one every month on there.
Speaker 1: Last last day of every month. Yeah, we upload a case,
Speaker 1: and we have this library that's been build building up
Speaker 1: over the last couple of years, so there's lots of cases.
Speaker 2: You can go check out and this month, aren't we
Speaker 2: doing something kind of special?
Speaker 1: We are? We Actually we talked to our patrons and
Speaker 1: they did a vote. They're getting two special things. I'll
Speaker 1: drop one of them. The other one you have to
Speaker 1: sign up for Patreon to figure out what it is.
Speaker 2: I know I'm putting you on the spot with this.
Speaker 1: Well I'm really only not saying it because I haven't
Speaker 1: figured that one out. But yeah, the other one is
Speaker 1: the end of the month episode is going to be
Speaker 1: a live episode, so it will be us live on camera,
Speaker 1: live streaming and chatting with everyone on Patreon as we
Speaker 1: do the case.
Speaker 2: So yeah, very cool, kind of like what we did
Speaker 2: at trench in Town.
Speaker 1: But for our two hundredth episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just for our patrons.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think we're going to start doing that
Speaker 1: a little bit more often, specifically over on Patreon. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love that. Love patrons too, because they are awesome.
Speaker 1: They support us, just like you guys out there listening
Speaker 1: to this episode, and you two are incredible, So thank
Speaker 1: you for being here, thank you for listening. And until
Speaker 1: part two.
Speaker 2: Oh man, we're going to have to wait for that
Speaker 2: until day Wicked