WEBVTT 1 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:16.199 Okay, So if you're still listening on the live stream, 2 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:19.320 this is a quick, easy continuation. If not, this is 3 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:23.160 part two of the podcast that is a tribute to 4 00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:27.760 my friend author who passed away recently, Joan Mellon, who 5 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:30.320 was the first guest on The Ocelli Effect in February 6 00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:36.320 of twenty fifteen, the first live guest on the Ocelli Effect. Okay, anyway, 7 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:38.920 there was only a handful of podcasts recorded before that, 8 00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:43.560 and it became what it became now these many years later. 9 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:47.840 The dogs are making noise. I'm sorry about that, guys, 10 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:49.799 and I'm going to get right back into the interview 11 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:52.679 with Joan, because today, as I speak, it's July tenth 12 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:57.359 of twenty twenty five, and I wasn't I've been so 13 00:00:57.479 --> 00:00:59.960 dismayed as of late, I wasn't even gonna do a show, 14 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.280 and then I got the sad news that Joan Mellon 15 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:04.040 had passed away. 16 00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:05.640 And I told a story in. 17 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:10.359 Part one about the general arc of our entire relationship. Really, 18 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:14.799 I left a few things out because you know, she's 19 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:20.120 entitled to her privacy about some things, but she was 20 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:24.319 a friend. We had a relationship of an interesting dynamic 21 00:01:24.359 --> 00:01:28.599 to me and I have one more small story to 22 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:31.519 tell about her, but I'll do that after I let 23 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:35.599 her speak for herself. I got that show from twenty 24 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:39.920 four to fifteen. Here lined up twenty fourteen. I keep 25 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:45.200 making that mistake. February fifteen of twenty fourteen. Okay, that's 26 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:47.719 when the o'celli Effect was live with Joan Mellan as 27 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:51.120 my first live guest on a Saturday night on ucy 28 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:56.959 dot TV, an alternative media radio network which hardly those 29 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.760 things don't even exist anymore, right, I still have a 30 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:02.760 little radio network for as long as I can pay 31 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:08.560 for that. Anyway, it is what it is, and hopefully 32 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:10.000 you guys are getting something out of this. 33 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:13.080 And I mean to be. 34 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:18.080 Very respectful and pay tribute to somebody who had a 35 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:21.240 great influence on me. And whether you know it or not, 36 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:26.520 if you're following real information, real research, actual solid stuff 37 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:29.560 when it comes to the jfk assassination, the USS liberty, 38 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:33.199 the various machinations of what's gone on in Cuba and 39 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:37.800 Haiti and other places, plus many other books. She wrote 40 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:41.960 a couple dozen books, some of them on film, Japanese 41 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:45.400 film in particular, but cinema and women in Cinema, Marilyn Monroe, 42 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:48.080 a lot of books on a lot of things, but 43 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:49.800 a whole bunch of them you'll see on the graphic 44 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:50.960 for this tribute. 45 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:51.240 To Joan Mellen. 46 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:54.520 Anyway, enough out of me, Let's get right back to 47 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:57.199 it and play some more of this where I may 48 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:00.240 or may not stop and comment here or there, just 49 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:04.400 to remind you of the context. Eleven years later from this, 50 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:06.680 and then I've got a piece of an interview. Let 51 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:09.319 me check the date on it real fast. I've got 52 00:03:09.319 --> 00:03:10.840 a piece of an interview, so it won't be the 53 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:12.960 whole thing. I might play this whole thing in these 54 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:14.960 two parts, you know, split between the two parts, but 55 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:15.400 I might not. 56 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:17.560 But I also have an interview. 57 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:21.840 From twenty eighteen with Joan. So four years after this one, 58 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:24.240 and we had done a few shows and continue to 59 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:26.479 do shows. We did one on Faustian Bargain. We did 60 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:30.080 one on the Sherlock being catfished. We did one on 61 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:33.560 Blood in the Water, the USS liberty story, Ourman and 62 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:39.919 Haiti about de morn Shields, right. We did the discussion 63 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:42.599 on the Great Game in Cuba and all of the 64 00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:46.439 interesting you know, anti and pro castro Cubans involved in 65 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:50.039 various aspects of the Kennedy assassination and other deep political 66 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:53.199 things going on, and she talks about the CIA pretty 67 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:56.759 bluntly here and again my opinions differed from Joan on 68 00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:59.759 a few things, but I bet if you're familiar with 69 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:02.800 my point of view on various things that are coming 70 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:06.199 up during this interview, which I strategically brought up in 71 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:09.400 a two hour spot, by the way, on a Saturday 72 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:09.919 with Joan. 73 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:12.759 I was really happy to do it. 74 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:15.800 And I thought, lead with my best foot forward, and 75 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:19.000 this was the friendly person I knew that would bring 76 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:24.079 me something very very solid, very very correct, very very 77 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:28.399 well backed by research and proper work. And also she 78 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:33.439 was a hell of a writer, clearly anyway, she had 79 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:35.240 her flaws, she had her quirks, and towards the end 80 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:37.120 of her life she was pretty angry at me for 81 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:44.040 various things. But I hope that she remembers now that 82 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:49.360 I was always her friend and always somebody that was 83 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:52.120 happy to talk her through things, work with her on things, 84 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:56.920 give her a different perspective when she requested it, and 85 00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.879 gets shut down respectfully, and shut the hell up when 86 00:04:59.879 --> 00:05:02.920 I I was told do And it didn't matter if 87 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:07.040 we were talking about, you know, Thomas Beckham, or the 88 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:11.079 New York Mets, or the goings on in Jersey because 89 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:14.879 we both lived there for many years. Anyway, back to 90 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:20.639 the twenty fourteen interview with Joan Mellon from the Ocelli 91 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:22.639 Effect archives got. 92 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:25.160 A huge amount of contributions from Brown and Route and 93 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:27.959 of course again in nineteen forty eight he did so 94 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:31.759 this is a mutual admiration society. And when Johnson, by 95 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:34.839 the time, let's say nineteen sixty four comes, the net 96 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:38.720 worth of Lyndon Johnson was twenty four million dollars. Now, 97 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:41.399 when you think he did many scams, many and many, 98 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:44.480 but when you think that President Kennedy was considered a 99 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:49.079 rich man, only had ten million dollars, you can see 100 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:54.319 what enormous efforts that Lindon Johnson made to feathering his nest. 101 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:58.560 And he was a master act, tremendously shrewd. And he 102 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:01.519 had people like Bobby Baker, and he had people like 103 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:05.800 Billy Celestes and others to help him alone. And of 104 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:09.839 course in those days in Texas as in Louisianda, you 105 00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:13.240 could give campaign contributions anytime. You know, the person didn't 106 00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:16.680 have to be running for office. It's incredible. So you 107 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:19.000 could so then you could call any kind of gift 108 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:22.160 that you wanted to give a campaign contribution, all sorts 109 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:26.560 of methods that they had Johnson and the radio station 110 00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:30.079 and the control of that, and how Johnson retained a 111 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:33.199 monopoly on the radio state. He had the only radio 112 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:36.759 station and TV station in Austin, Texas in his wife's name, 113 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:41.959 so ridiculous. And then he would sell people were forced 114 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:46.120 to by advertising on these radio and the TV station, 115 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:48.800 and if they didn't, he got you know, they suffered 116 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:51.199 the consequences and he got money that way. And there 117 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:52.720 was so many scans and so. 118 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.720 Yeah, there's always an array of ways that any any 119 00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:59.360 criminal enterprise, no matter what you're looking at, there's always 120 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:02.360 got to be in a ray of options for laundering 121 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:05.839 the money. And Johnson certainly had many many options for 122 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:11.079 doing that. But again, to put him as a mastermind 123 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:16.439 for something as extreme as the assassination of John F. Kennedy, 124 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:19.680 there is just no foundation for it. If there was, 125 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:22.519 that would be one thing. There's plenty of foundation for 126 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:25.319 all these criminal acts that we're talking about, and we 127 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:28.120 don't even have We could probably sit and do this 128 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:31.519 show for the next three months for two hours every 129 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:36.079 week and not even complete all of the stuff that 130 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:39.319 Johnson had his fingers in. And Brown and Root, by 131 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:42.199 the way, just for those who are saying to themselves, 132 00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:45.639 you know, this stuff isn't really relevant nowadays, or it 133 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:48.240 isn't relevant to any of the current events. I always 134 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:50.959 try and point out, you know, this is where a 135 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:53.600 lot of things were seeded Brown and Root. Later on, 136 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:57.399 you can link it to things like ready for this Haliburton. 137 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:02.639 Okay, Well, Halliburton bought Brown and Root the minute that 138 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:07.639 Herman Brown died in December of nineteen sixty two, and 139 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:11.319 they didn't want to sell. So George Brown, the surviving brother, 140 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:16.160 signed the papers for the sale to Halliburton just then. 141 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:18.600 And so then George stayed on. I don't know the 142 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:22.079 exact financial arrangements. He was still involved with Brown and 143 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.759 Root at the time that they fortified themselves in Vietnam. 144 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:27.959 I want to say something else about Brown and Ruth 145 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:32.039 that is interesting, and it's in my update also for 146 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:36.799 the Farewell to Justice, and that is that Jim Garrison 147 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:41.679 was very angry at Lyndon Johnson for not releasing the 148 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:45.960 files and exhibits of the Warren Commission and looking at 149 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:50.080 Lyndon Johnson, he also saw as people later pretending like 150 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:53.639 Caro pretends that even made the discovery that Johnson was 151 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:57.519 supported by Herman and George Brown, but of course everyone 152 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:00.759 knew it before that there was no new discovery. Garrison 153 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:04.440 looked at Johnson and that he saw the Browns, and 154 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:08.360 Hermann was dead already when Garrison made his identity investigation, 155 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:11.120 there was George Brown. So the name of George Brown 156 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:14.519 came up in the Garrison investigation. And some of the 157 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:17.480 spies that Chuck that you referred to earlier, such as 158 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:21.879 William Gerbrich, who was a cheap detective who applied the 159 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:25.519 Port of New Orleans down there, real low figure. Anyway, 160 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:28.759 he infiltrated. Garrison was very trusting. That was one of 161 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:31.639 Garrison's faults he had fause this was no sake. And 162 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:33.919 one of them was he let people in who would 163 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:38.480 flatter him and who would seem to be committed, and 164 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:42.120 they were really spying and cheating and stealing documents and 165 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:45.000 so forth. And so Garbrich is listening to what's going 166 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:47.639 on in the office and he hears the name George Brown, 167 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:51.320 and so he reported it to a media assets. THEIA 168 00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:56.159 media asset named Hugh Ainsworth, now Hugh Ainsworth then called 169 00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:59.759 up George Brown and told him his name was mentioned 170 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:02.720 Aarison was accusing him, which wasn't the case at all 171 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:06.279 in being involved in the Kennedy assassination. And as a 172 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:09.480 result of that whole little dance, if you like, Garrison 173 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:11.879 liked to use that metaphor of the dance. As the 174 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:16.000 result of all that, guess what the CIA looks at 175 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:18.919 George Brown, and they know him well, and so we 176 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:22.039 get the most valuable document that I think we have 177 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:25.360 on the whole Kennedy assassination in my humble opinion, and 178 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:29.399 that is a description of the CIA service, the service 179 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:33.320 to the clandestine services of Herman and George Brown, and 180 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:37.159 a whole slew a whole list of executives of Brown 181 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:40.320 and Root and they were all part of CIA starting 182 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:42.000 in the early nineteen fifties. 183 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:48.639 Just whoa take note there that she literally identifies Hughaansworth 184 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:52.200 as a CIA asset, even though he was a mainstream 185 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:55.399 journalist and a constant go to because he was also 186 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:59.279 a witness to the assassination that day, as they represented him. 187 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:04.399 But what's hilarious is this is interviews in twenty fourteen. 188 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:07.360 It's not till twenty seventeen that I saw most researchers 189 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:11.360 willing to admit that huane'sworth was guess what. 190 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:17.399 Work and for the Feds baby anyway, just saying. 191 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:23.039 Joan did not suffer stupidity or men's words and wouldn't 192 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:23.799 let me mince words. 193 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:25.440 When I talked to her privately, she was rough. 194 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:27.799 I was worried she was going to do that to 195 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:29.759 me on my show, on my debut show, and I 196 00:11:29.799 --> 00:11:30.440 was going to look like. 197 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:34.120 A punk swear to God anyway, back to it. 198 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:38.200 And as a result, also we get a look in 199 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:42.279 the same document at various foundations, including the Brown Foundation, 200 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:45.679 which was a foundation set up by George Brown, I think, 201 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:48.799 and all of them, and they would use this pass through. 202 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:55.320 CIA used these foundations as passed throughs to fund domestic activities. 203 00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:58.639 There's things that they were they were not entitled to 204 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:01.799 according to their the use of the foundations and all 205 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:05.399 this came out in Congress by a Texas congressman named 206 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:09.159 Right Patton, who exposed it all. And so there we 207 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:13.240 have the CIA's own document admitting to the use of 208 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:16.639 Herman and George Brown which is gold in terms of 209 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:19.720 how we connect all these things, as Don DeLillo says 210 00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:24.559 in his great novel Underworld, and everything is connected, and then. 211 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:26.200 Here we have it. And if not for. 212 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:29.159 Garrison, and I think Chuck you were saying earlier, if 213 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:32.039 not for Garrison Oliver Stone wouldn't have had the film. 214 00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:33.679 And if not for the film, we wouldn't have had 215 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:37.240 the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records and Collection Act, and 216 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:39.720 we wouldn't have had all the documents, and none of 217 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:42.360 these books that have been written about the Kennedy assassination 218 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:45.799 in the last twenty years would never have been published. 219 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:51.320 And the Assassination Records Review Board which was formed as 220 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.559 a result from the outcry of that movie. And again 221 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:56.840 I say you could trace that back to Garrison's case, 222 00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:59.879 the fact that Stone had publicized it, and all of 223 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:04.480 that stuff which later gave us that marvelous collection that 224 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:08.080 is there now at the National Archives. All of these 225 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:14.200 things give you a blueprint for the anatomy of many 226 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:22.080 of the intelligence services attempts to subvert many things, especially 227 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:25.000 the media assets. That stuff is laid out so clearly, 228 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:27.919 and Hugh Ainsworth just in case my listeners think that 229 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:30.919 that is a familiar name. Hugh Ainsworth is one of 230 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.480 these guys that has always pulled out. He's still being 231 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:36.919 pulled out today on all of these Oswald did it 232 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:41.039 shows as an assassination witness, as an authority on the 233 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:44.879 real situations that were occurring in Dallas and all these 234 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:47.159 things because he was a reporter in Dallas at the time. 235 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:50.279 But as you point out, this guy can be tied 236 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:53.840 to the agency. He was definitely an asset. That's just 237 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:57.360 the way it is. And on top of that, you know, 238 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:02.679 when you examine this stuff that's coming out all the time, again, 239 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:06.159 this is how it works. It gives you a blueprint 240 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.200 for how it is they turn around and discredit people 241 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.679 and stuff like this. Now, another little point that I 242 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.559 wanted to make here, It's just a small point, is 243 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.000 that you're not talking about Jim Garrison as somebody that 244 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.399 you learned about through the JFK movie or that you 245 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:25.840 happened to read about because he was an assassination literature 246 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:29.279 or anything like that. You actually knew the man, didn't you. 247 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:33.159 Well, what happened was I mentioned earlier on our program 248 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:39.720 the Piaiese Sarah newspaper series about the CIA front Permandex 249 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:44.120 and Central Monday al COMMERCIALI. Well, my husband was living 250 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:47.559 in London at the time and we weren't married then, 251 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:52.320 but he he got a set of those newspapers and 252 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:55.399 he sent them to Jim Garrison in New Orleans. So 253 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:59.320 in May of nineteen sixty nine, Garrison the chaw Off 254 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:02.879 course was a in March. In May of nineteen sixty nine, 255 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:07.039 Garrison invited my husband and me to New Orleans and 256 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:10.840 he wanted to thank Ralph and like that. So there 257 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:13.159 we go. We go, and I'd never been to New Orleans. 258 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:14.360 It's terribly hot down there. 259 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:14.960 I have to tell you. 260 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.639 It's seltry and I was sick, and so the photograph 261 00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:20.879 in a farewell to Justice, I look pretty bedraggled. I'm 262 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:26.600 sick with fever from the sultry weather. And Garrison and 263 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:28.720 my husband and I are sitting in the hotel room 264 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:32.120 and Garrison is talking about the Kennedy assassination. And the 265 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.480 blinds were bothering me. The sun was so somebody working 266 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:37.480 for the hotel came in to fix the blinds and 267 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.919 he said, hello, mister Garrison. And I found that surprising. 268 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:42.639 By the way, at the hotel, it was the hotel 269 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:46.480 monte Leone on Royal Street, and Garrison registered us as 270 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:50.360 mister and missus Lyndon Baines Johnson, which is really very 271 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.679 funny in the light of everything that has happened since, 272 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:56.840 even funnier. But when this man said, I said, well, gee, 273 00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:59.240 how come he's saying hello to mister Garrison. I had 274 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:01.480 no idea. And then when we walked in the street, 275 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:04.360 it would going to the Garrison's favorite restaurant, which was 276 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:08.039 called Miran La Louisiana, and people in the street, especially 277 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:12.200 black people, are saying hello to mister Garrison, and I think, 278 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:14.240 I don't even know. I did not know that he 279 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:17.080 was district attorney, which he was. He had been reelect it. 280 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:19.759 In fact, didn't know, no, no, he was running for 281 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.559 reelection because the election was probably that on him. You 282 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.159 would not know that he was district attorney except for 283 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:27.879 people are recognizing him in the street because he's talking 284 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:31.399 all the while about the Kennedy assassination. And I thought 285 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:37.720 that was all he cared about, really, was the Kennedy assassination. Well, 286 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:40.879 I knew Garrison's ambition in life was not to be 287 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:43.320 a district attorney or a lawyer or any of this. 288 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.080 He wanted to be an author, and so he was 289 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:50.000 writing manuscripts and books about the Kennedy assassination and novels, 290 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.279 and he was sending him to me, and he wanted 291 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:54.759 to talk three hours at a stretch. And those who 292 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:58.039 know him are like say Vince Landry and Philadelphia. People 293 00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:59.919 who have been his print know that he could talk 294 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.240 for hours and hours. You didn't say a word, and 295 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:04.799 he's talking about his writing and what he's thinking and 296 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:07.839 what he's doing. And this went on for some years, 297 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:10.319 and then in the early nineteen seventies when he was 298 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:14.400 charged by the federal government for taking bribes from pimball 299 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.640 operators illegal pinball gambling interests, and he was on trial 300 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:20.759 and he was framed. It was clear that he was framed, 301 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.640 and I thought, well, this would be a great subject 302 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:25.400 for a book. I want to write a book about 303 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:29.319 Garrison and what happened to him and all this. Of course, 304 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.400 Garrison was acquitted both of taking the bribes, and then 305 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.359 he was tried again by the Internal Revenue Service for 306 00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:37.960 not paying taxes on the bribes that he was acquitted 307 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:38.440 of taking. 308 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:42.240 Yeah, most interestingly, he was acquitted of the tax evasion 309 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:44.720 on the bribes that it had already been established in 310 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:47.359 the court of law. He hadn't taken That was the 311 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:49.200 fascinating part of that for me. 312 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.799 Yes, So anyway, I thought I'll write this book then, 313 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.000 and then I just didn't. I didn't know how to 314 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:58.279 write a biography. I certainly didn't know enough about any 315 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.400 of this, So you know, I didn't start then Garrison, 316 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:03.039 and so I saw him again. The last time I 317 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:08.279 saw Garrison was in nineteen eighty seven, and Oliver Stone 318 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:10.400 was working on his film, and he was very happy 319 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:13.240 about that. He was going to play Chief Justice or 320 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:15.400 a Warren. Garrison played or a Warren in the film, 321 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:21.079 which he thought was funny, and so he was very young. 322 00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:23.759 But he was just the same in nineteen eighty seven 323 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:27.000 as he had been in nineteen sixty nine, talking NonStop 324 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:32.079 about the fact that the brother of Dullas's second in command, 325 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.200 General Charles Cabell, was the mayor of Dallas at the 326 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:37.640 time of the Kennedy assassination, and the business with the 327 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:42.400 parade route wasn't changed going over this material that Oswald 328 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.200 never fired a shot, going over this over and over again, 329 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:49.720 and then he got sick, and I didn't start writing 330 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:54.359 and doing the research the actual book until nineteen ninety seven. 331 00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:58.200 I wrote many many books since during that time, but 332 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:01.240 I didn't start again until ninety seven. And the first 333 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:03.960 person two people together. They were afraid to see me alone. 334 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:04.319 I thought. 335 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:09.839 The two people that I saw first were Frank Minard, 336 00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:12.599 who was the coroner of Orleans Parish for many many years. 337 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:14.519 He was the only white man that got re elected 338 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:17.599 in later years. But Frank told me that when he 339 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.759 would go into the house of somebody, when some collect 340 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:23.039 a dead body he was a coroner, he would see 341 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:27.440 three photographs in the black people's homes. There was, predictably 342 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:31.319 doctor Martin Luther King Junior. There was John F. Kennedy, 343 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:34.720 and there was Jim Garrison. These are the people that 344 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:37.640 were that were most admired. And so Frank told me 345 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:40.079 Nana and lou Aivan was the other person that was 346 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:44.680 with him, and they began to tell me about Jim Garrison, 347 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.359 what he was like in his life, and and it 348 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.160 was funny. I think one of the things that I 349 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:54.200 missed in the Oliver Stone film that was was the 350 00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:58.039 humor of Garrison. That's sardonic irony, and I love the line. 351 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:00.839 I ope my favorite rong it still is the line 352 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:04.200 of Garrison where he says was talking about in his 353 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:08.039 investigation and being in the investigation, and he said, I 354 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:10.319 thought I was living in the country I was born in, 355 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:12.519 and the country that he was born in was a 356 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:15.599 country with civil liberties with us, that with justice, justice 357 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:17.839 under the law, and that you don't have a country, 358 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.279 for example, in which when he charged Clay Shaw with 359 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:24.480 perjury after the Shaw trial, it went into federal court, 360 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:26.680 which I had no business. It was a state Louisiana 361 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:29.680 matter perjury. It's not a federal crime. But somehow it 362 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:33.119 got into federal court and it was dismissed because Shaw 363 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:36.599 lied on the stand in the trial and he said 364 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:39.319 that he didn't know Oswald and he didn't know David Ferry. 365 00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:42.480 And we have ten witnesses or more. There was some 366 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:45.839 that didn't compere at the trial, black and white, who 367 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:49.079 said that they saw Shaw and this is very important 368 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:51.920 to Shaw and Ferry and Oswald driving in a black 369 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:56.200 Cadillac up to Jackson and Clinton, Louisiana, north of Baton 370 00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:59.960 Rouge and Oswald had gone up there there to Clintlinton 371 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:06.200 to vote and to figure out what Garrison see. 372 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:09.640 Now, this interview continues for quite a while more, and 373 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:11.759 if you want the whole thing, by all means, go 374 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:12.680 ahead and email me. 375 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:15.759 I'll be a lot happier if you. 376 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:20.039 Know supporters that have supported me before, email me to 377 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:23.079 request if you want a copy of this if you 378 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:25.720 didn't already, get it through the archives or whatever else, 379 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:27.680 or get it, you know, in a replace somewhere, or 380 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.160 get that upgraded version of it I put out a 381 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.559 couple of years ago. I'll be more than happy to 382 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:34.039 send you the best version of it that I have 383 00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:36.920 a copy of and fire it on off to you 384 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:42.119 via email at least for well the remainder of July, 385 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:44.359 which is as long as I'm sure that I'll be 386 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.440 able to maintain my email storage account. 387 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:48.519 But we'll see what happens. 388 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.440 Anyway, we're going to take a little break here, and 389 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:54.559 as we do, I'm going to come back and play 390 00:21:54.599 --> 00:22:00.839 another piece from a separate interview with Joan, and we'll 391 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:06.160 continue this particular tribute to Joan Mellon, the author of 392 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:08.720 many many books on the Ocelli effect. 393 00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:51.279 Stick around, revel level, through, Okay, through break Through. 394 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:54.000 This is James Corbett corpor Report dot Com, and you're 395 00:22:54.039 --> 00:23:00.920 listening to the effect at dot com. 396 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:06.319 What I Do revelation through conversation in a radio show 397 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:11.799 slash podcast. You want the good news, listen to the 398 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:17.400 o'helly effect. Check o'celly is the most underrated voice in 399 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:23.559 all media, news, education, and entertainment. The daily bread from 400 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:30.240 o'ceelly dot com. Go there, save yourself from ignorance ochelly 401 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:34.680