Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Damian Othello from Dublin, Ireland, and I play
at Roganstown Country Club in North County, Dublin. Welcome to
Golf Murder, episode number.
Speaker 2: Nine hundred and ninety three.
Speaker 1: I have been saying I wish we would mic the
golf bags on tour. How many times you could flip
that thing on and listen to a caddy talk to
the player of what was going on and how it
was going on. And at Augusta you can watch every
shot of every player online. I don't know what that
technology cost. I don't know it. Because it's played at
the same place every year, it's easier. But can you
imagine being able to watch a golfer listen to him
and his caddy talk. I pay to listen to Nascar.
I don't watch much NASCAR anymore, but I will listen
to a race, but I can hear the driver and
the crew chiep talking and that's really exciting to me,
listen to what's going on. How many people would pay
three ninety nine or five ninety nine a month to
be able to watch their favorite player? I would. I mean,
that's what I do with the Masters. If I'm watching
a line I'm watching my guys play.
Speaker 2: Atlanta wins TGL and we go inside the celebration ropes
with Lucas Glover's agent Mac Barnhardt. This is Golf Smarter,
sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf mindes to
help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ.
Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf
Smarter Podcast. Mac.
Speaker 1: Thanks Fred, great to be here. Buddy.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we were on a couple of weeks ago.
We had a blast. But I was watching TV the
other night, watching the TGL finals ye and looking into
the owner's box of Atlanta and there's Lucas Club. Wait
a minute, sitting next to Lucas's Mac. Mac.
Speaker 1: I'm waving at you.
Speaker 2: I'm screaming. My son is in town. We're sitting there watching.
I'm like, there's Mac. There's a book. I macked it up.
I show him Mac. And so, first of all, congratulations
on being part of the championship team. The Atlanta team
wins TGL for the inaugural year.
Speaker 1: Really cool, Yep.
Speaker 2: It's pretty exciting.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, look, it's brand new to me. I mean,
you know, I played a wooden driver for a long time.
I get it. This is a new concept, but you know,
I think it'll catch on. I mean, if you come
to the event, and it's hard not to get wrapped
up into the excitement. And you know, it was fun
watching Lucas cheerybody owned his teammates and you know, and
you know, we got to set with mister Blank, who
owns the team and who's just a wonderful guy, and uh,
you know, and obviously winning and then he had a
whole really post you know, post match celebration like you
would if any other championship team. If his Falcons win
the Super Bowl, I'm sure it'll be like that. But
it was really cool. It's really neat that. And the
really neat thing is is, look, all your friends and family,
they're welcome to come. Please bring them in. And they
gave out T shirts and hats and and it was
pretty special.
Speaker 2: I'm still sporting my Bay Club team, I understand, and
I'm wearing my my windbreaker here and I'm sorry that
they didn't. You know, they had such a fast start
and they're looking so good. I'm like, oh, we're going
to make the playoffs, and then it just kind of
fell apart. I'll tell you it's Atlanta was just the opposite.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean, think about it. I mean, Lucas
probably statistically is playing better than any other teammates. So
I mean, I don't think anybody had a chance with
those four guys. They could have just thrown their names
in a hat and they were all just they're all
playing really good golf, and they're all excited about it,
and they're you know, they're passionate about it, and so
I don't know if that's why they won. I mean,
obviously it's golf, but you can see the excitement in it,
and people think, you know, how much money they want.
None of them were thinking that they want to beat you.
They want to win, and it's fun to watch.
Speaker 2: The purse wasn't bad. I mean, I know they're splitting
it as a team. Hopefully they're splitting it evenly as
a team, all four of them, but still it was
a it was a healthy purse.
Speaker 1: Oh my right o. Yep, yep. I think that's what
they say. It's a pretty nice week.
Speaker 2: But I want to know what was the buzz in
the building while that championship match was happened. The final
championship match on Tuesday.
Speaker 1: And it was real. It was real. I mean it was.
Speaker 2: Sporting events to be able to gauge.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you know, it's it's hard to I mean, yes,
the people there are really having a good time and
they're into it, and the players are into it. They're
not kidding around. I mean, you know, they're a competitive
and Lucas is kind of yelling at Billy horsehow about stuff.
You know, it's like what you would see in a
team concept. And I tell people, if you go back
and look at the Ryder Cup from the nineteen eighties,
go watch film. You know of the nineteen eighties Ryder Cup.
They weren't sold out, There wasn't there was massive crowds
until nineteen ninety one and what they call it the
War by the Sea or something like that in ninety one.
That's what kicked it off. And what's going to be
the thing that kicks tgl off. There'll be something a
watershed moment that people really will pay attention and they'll
come running in. The thing I like about it as
I think with the absence of Tiger on tour, we've
lost a lot of the sports fans that watched golf.
You know, Tiger brought into sports fans, and I think
it's important that we earn we earn our golf fans back.
I think a lot of golf fans have been turned
off us and things in the past few years, and
so we've got to real you know, we've got to
get these golf fans back involved. And I think this
and this may actually is seeing all the baseball players
and stuff there that night, you know, the other sports stars.
This may bring the other sports fans back into the game,
which may then push them to watch you know, other
pro goff events, right, And that's what I hope. But
I think we've got to earn I think we've got
to earn a lot of the golf fans back into
this game as well. It's just been so much talk
about money, and it's it's just in our business. It's
never talked about there is a moment that money comes in.
But you don't hear that ever about that putt was worth.
I think Lucas made a putt the finished third and
the players and people are telling me how much that
putt meant. I mean, Lucas didn't know. He didn't. He'll
find that later, But that wasn't the point, and everybody
needs to understand these guys are not playing the game
for money. I mean, they do earn a living doing it,
but that's not what they're They're playing to compete and
beat people. That's it's it's always been the crux. And
we just need to get talking about the money and
and let these sports fans know that these guys would
play for nothing. I mean they don't, but they want
to compete. So but I was, like I said, I'm
super excited.
Speaker 2: You could see the energy. I mean, Billy horshchall was obvious.
Uh and it was so exciting and what and you
were part of that winning team, I mean being being
associated with Lucas. I mean you didn't get to pick
up a putter or luckily you didn't have to hit out.
You didn't have to hit out of one of those bunkers.
Speaker 1: Thank god they didn't want be doing it.
Speaker 2: But it has to be exciting to be part of
the inaugural winning team, even you know, loosely associated.
Speaker 1: Loosely associally obviously asociated just by our conversations. I mean,
you can't repeat it. You know, I've known mister Blanks
for thirty some years, you know, just an incredible man.
To be somewhat associated with him winning a championship, you know,
is you know, you don't get those chances much in life,
and I feel honored to be a part of it.
I was on TV too much because of the hundreds
of texts I got telling me, you know, call me
ugly and one of my you know all that stuff,
and and I tell them, I said, you know, a
camera adds ten pounds. And unfortunately they had three cameras
on me the whole time. So but yeah, it was fun.
Like I say, I try not to be a part
of the show. That was a sign seating. I didn't
have a choice. That's where my name tag was and
I sat there. I knew I would be seen, you know.
I had one of our buddies, doctor David Murphy, our team,
one of our team surgeons, and he was there and
I told him, I said, no, look forewarned, you know,
don't pick your nose, don't do anything silly because they're
going to see you. So and I hope I didn't,
you know, but.
Speaker 2: No, no, Well, well thank you for explaining why I
sent you a text the following morning and didn't hear
from you. For twenty four hours, which is like unlike
you at all. Yeah, it was, but I'm sure that
you being on TV like that, you're going to get
a lot of people reaching out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just you know, most of them were really fun
and you know, the stuff they were telling me was
quite funny, and I mean it's friends. I mean I
get it. And you know, again, I don't try to
ever be part of the show. I try to stay
away from that stuff if I can, I like behind
the scenes. But it was fun to be with Lucas
and experience with him, because you know, he was really pumped.
Speaker 2: And tell me about that. How is Lucas doing watching it?
Watching about these guys want to play?
Speaker 1: I'm not going to lie to you. He wanted to
He did not want to be I don't want to
say the proverbial bench. He did not. He wanted to
play and he and obviously these are competitive men. These
are not people out there they're showing off. This is
what they do. They compete. And yeah, so he there's
no question disappointed, But you can't argue with the fact
that they won the championship. And whoever put the team
out there may have known something that we didn't know.
I feel like Lucas would have been I think they'd
have won no matter what. I just think they're that
much better than the other teams. But yeah, I mean disappointed,
but not in a way of like, you know, screw it,
and he's like, no, I'll be there. I'm gonna support
my team. I believe it, and if they need me,
I'm ready to go. And he would have been ready
to go if they had lost that first match. I
believe he'd been pulled in, thank goodness, so we didn't
need it.
Speaker 2: One of the things that I loved about watching TGL
is that it was more personality golf then you'll ever
see on the PGA Tour because everybody's on their own
island when they're playing on tour, competing against one another,
but watching them and listening to them, right, having every
guy miked and being part of a team. Just to me,
it just sucked you in. It brought you in, and
I kept trying to bug my friends, you got to
watch this, you gotta watch this, and I hope to
watch the last one because they really did save the
best for last that that game, that match I was
I said, I was watching it with my son and
I said, you know, as we were getting into the
fourteenth hole there and we're tied and it was super close,
and the hammer wasn't work and whatnot. It felt more
like a baseball game, a playoff baseball game, than it
did almost any other sport. I mean, look at the score,
four four, five five four, you know, five to four,
you know that kind of scoring, and little nuanced things
happened at work that didn't work. That felt like championship baseball,
like any other sport.
Speaker 1: And you're talking about the hammer, you know, because Lucas
is like talking to him when they would come back over,
They're like talking about they had a little hand signals
for the hammer. You could see him like, and I
think Patrick Cantley maybe the I think he may be
the real expert at the hammer, if not Lucas, and
I'm probably, but yeah, I mean as a whole new element.
And look, we've watched Ryder Cup. We see what team
golf looks like. We see these guys come alive and
team golf and you know, I'm going to say the
dirty word and live and I'm being funny. I love
liv Live golf is team event and I've been a
part of that through Andy Ogletree, and you're right. You see,
these guys have that team atmosphere is awesome. And that's
what I kept saying earlier is what is wrong with
some team golf? A So some team golf in this thing,
and both the PGA Tour and Live should be able
to live together and combine some of that stuff. It'd
be awesome. It'd be cool if they'd have a you know,
have a lived team show up. You know what if
they'd have had a live team show up, so well
next week, now they got to play these guys. I mean,
let's integrate these guys back in and maybe TJ I'll
give us that opportunity.
Speaker 2: Well, you brought it up. I was going to but
since you already brought it up, you know, this seemed
to work. TGL seemed to work. It was a great
TV event. It was a made for TV event. And
as Barney Adams has said to us before, hey, the
PGA Tour is a television show, right, and this was
designed to be a two hour TV show with competition.
So it's like on an off sports night you get
to watch some sports. But so I have to think
that they're walking away from the end of this season
TGL and Tomorrow Sports walk away thinking this worked, We
succeeded absolutely absolutely. Why did TGL work versus Live doesn't
seem to have worked. I've never watched, never cared to
watch a live event. Is what do you what do
you in your seat? What do you think is the
difference or why?
Speaker 1: One? Well, there was a lot of negative energy thrown
toward it, you know, to yeah, to try to lead
people from not watching it. I believe that. I mean, obviously,
I think there's organizations that did not want Live to succeed, sure,
and I think there's a lot of negative Second thing
is is I think they finally got to deal with
Fox TV, the Fox Networks, and now there's going to
be more exposure to be easier to watch. I think
some people had some difficulty finding the CW of whatever league.
I think some of that it's new, it's you know,
and again it's just there's a lot of people on
this island that are they're either anti live or pro live,
and it's the most ridiculous thing. It's you know, from
my point of view, it's GoF they're aren't and off
GoF opportunities for all the talent out there now much
less trying to limit another option. I think there's there's
room for several more tours and that much talent is
out there, so I whether live works or not, I
think it's again, GoF is a slow moving game. It
took a long time for people to quit wearing leather
bottomed shoes. I mean, you didn't you saw it forever.
They're not giving away the foot joy classics and still spikes,
you remember that it just metal drivers. It takes people time,
but once they lock into it, then it's fine. And
I go back to the Ryder Cup. After ninety one,
the Ryder Cup becomes a sold out event. They're selling
what's it, six hundred and fifty dollars a ticket in
New York for a day, and they're selling them faster
than they can print them. And it took a long
time for that competition to catch the eyes of the public.
And I think that's the same thing for Tgo, and
I think it'll be the same thing for Lyft. I mean,
there's an incredible amount of talent playing Lyft, and like
them or not or wherever, all the reasons, it's competitive golf.
And I'm going next week to Miami with Andy ogle
Tree to be there, and it's just just competitive. It's
no different. This guys are not they're not playing for money.
They are, they're earning money to play, but that's not
what they're playing for. They play to compete. These guys
are competitive people, and I think that's where we need
to get away from. I mean a lot of people
with inflation are having a hard time feeding their families
and just continuing to hear about these obscenes about some money,
and I think it wears on you. I think we
mentioned this one time. Derek Jeter was making what sixty
million a year, but they didn't announce his salary every
time he hit a home run. I mean it was
like they talked about earlier in the year and then
it was over. Now he's playing baseball, and I think
that's what we should do with golf. I mean, yeah,
there's money involved in it, but let's just get back
to these guys are trying to they want to win.
I mean it wasn't but Lucas is gonna get paid
whether or not he played or not. But they didn't.
He wanted to play, right, I mean, he's that's what
you know. And I think That's why they probably won.
Is those guys all wanted to play, you know, they
weren't just I mean I was I was really shocked
that Tiger and Roy didn't show up for the finals.
And if they were there, I didn't see them, but
I thought they would sound to come out, maybe to
staying with mister Blank and yeah, I thought that would
be it. And I don't know if it's because they
weren't playing and they didn't feel it, but I thought
there would be a lot.
Speaker 2: More all the teams that should have been there.
Speaker 1: I thought there'd be a lot. I mean, most of
those guys lived ten minutes in there. I thought there
would be a lot more support to come in and
support the league because it's important for it to succeed.
And I think Tiger and Rory, and I think Matthew
Fitzpatrick was there. I didn't run into him, but who
was you know, didn't play for their team. I think
it was Case, but he was there, Okay, we good.
I didn't say it, but he was on Team Bun.
I just thought that. I just thought that, I mean,
this thing working is good for everybody in golf and
everybody that could have been there on a Tuesday night,
didn't have anything to do, and it's fun, free drinks
and food. I mean, what more do you want? And
I just thought I thought that it might be a
bunch of tour players hanging out, come over and celebrate,
you know, when Davis's team won the US I mean
the Ryder Cup in twenty sixteen, Somewhere during the celebration party,
all the European team came over and hung out with
the American team and had drinks and Darren Clark did
a wonderful toast to the American team. And that's kind
of what I thought would happen. I thought that we'd
all come together they won. But here we all are,
and this is great for golf, and I kind of
made me squeamish a little bit to think that even
Tiger and Rory wouldn't be there.
Speaker 2: M Well, one of the one of the early conversations
that we had in talking about talking about Live, you
made the comment about that the teams should have been
regional as opposed to just random names, because then it
makes it easier, makes it easier a for merchandising, but
be for people to latch onto it, like here I
am wearing clothes from the Bay team. I think that
I think that that really worked for TGL, having the
teams being regional. You know. I mean I got the
new Lab golf putter, the one designed by Adam Scott,
and I didn't realize that I got it in Green
and he's playing for Boston. So it's like, oh, this
is perfect type the Adams Scott pletter and Green because
he's playing for Boston on TGL.
Speaker 1: But that's it exactly. Well, Yeah, yeah, I like I said,
I again, I'm trying not to. I have my own
ideas and I've told somebody I may be dead wrong,
but only have the ideas based on thirty four years
in his business. And yeah, I think regional teams would
have been an amazing thing. I've made the suggestion and
the end I trust what they're doing. These are there's
good guys and they're smart guys too. You know, why
not have six players on the team like TGL, so
that every player doesn't necessarily have to play every event.
If TGL wants fourteen I mean, if I live wants
fourteen events, and you could have let's I pretend let's
let's pretend that we have an Iron Irish team, the
Ireland team from Ireland, and you got Rory and Shane,
and you don't have to be from Ireland, but some
aspects of it. And if they had six then Rory
could play four team events a year and still play
his major schedule and then play his other tour schedule
and his other DP World Tour schedule and not overplay.
But the team would get the same amount of exposure
because you'd still be I mean, I wonder if they
had a Dare matter, if they had to live event
and Shane and Rory were on the team, how many
people would show up in jerseys kind of like going
to the Super Bowl and seeing the Eagles and the
whoever they played, the Chiefs jerseys. Sorry but I forgot
they just keep putting. But yeah, but it's like the
licensing opportunities of merchandising. And if you had a team
for Texas and a team from here, you know, Frederica
or there where people could latch onto it, want to
where the jersey's proudly, you know, the licensing merchandise, That's
what it would have meant to me. And I think
if like TGL, they had more players than played, they
could space their players out and not you know, create
a situation where a guy had to play thirty times
a year to play. But that's again that's my idea
wrong there.
Speaker 2: But with the regional teams the TGL created, now you
have like incredible room for expansion, right, because what happened
to Texas. We need a definitely we needed Texas.
Speaker 1: There's some good golfers that are Texas. I hear they don't,
you know.
Speaker 2: And we've got the two California teams. Okay, that was good,
but there's so many different regions that should be represented
and could be represented. And clearly the players don't have
to come from that area.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: I mean the Bay team was like all foreign players practically,
which is great. You know, I don't care because like
my San Francisco Giants, I don't know how many of
those guys ever grew up and played in San Francisco
growing up.
Speaker 1: Right, it's so rare that someone from Atlanta actually plays
for the Atlanta Braves, but nobody cares. You know, you
still Braves at and you go support the team and
then yeah, I agree with you. Like I say, all
this is so new is that it's going to take
time for the public to find things and they're all
going to kind of they'll all kind of tweak it
as they go to make it better and better, which
is like any product, right, I mean, the first iPhone
is not as good as this iPhone. So I think
they'll tweak it and get it better. Mike McCarley, who
you know, it's his his baby, you know, super smart guy,
and you know, kudos for him what he did. But
I think he'll make it better. I think he'll figure
they'll figure things out and they'll just continue to tweak it.
And you know, like I say everything, I'm I'm I'm
pro professional golf. You know, the more opportunities, the better,
And so that's what I hope we can always get.
We can finally get to.
Speaker 2: In addition to adding new regional teams, now the door
is wide open for teams that are and and you know,
TGL seasons to expand. As we've discussed co ed teams,
why not could be could have a live team. Why not?
Who cares? Right? Because you want to bring some of
those top names in, you want to bring the personalities.
Bryson would be a blast to watch there, I think.
So now I'm sure ESPN is ecstatic, but now they
have this huge volley. They only had a couple of
weeks of TGL. Why not do this? Okay, next season
which starts next month, right exactly, we're going to do
the LPGA on TGL, and we're going to do uh,
you know, pro am, I don't know. You you can
audition to play TGL, but I think there's so much
room for additional seasons, not just once a year.
Speaker 1: It could be like I say, it's like I say,
I probably not. It's out of my pay grade to
figure out exactly how much or what to do. You know,
we talk about Texas. Can you imagine Scotti Scheffler and
Jordan Spaeth and Bryce de Chambeau all live in Texas.
They show up and now you've got a whole different deal.
And again, something's got to bring unity to this game again,
and maybe TGL can play that part of it. You
know that we can kind of get get past all
this last this stuff mess we've been through the last
four years and let's get back to you know, we
got the Masters in a couple of weeks, and you're
going to see all the best players in the world
there not all of them there'll be some best players
that won't make it for some reason. But as a rule,
you're going to see the first first golf tournament with
those players back together. And I think we're going to
all find that that's what the golf world wants to see,
and we're going to have to figure it out. I
don't again, don't know that, don't know the roadback, but
that's what we're gonna have to get to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, something, something's got to get interesting about it. So
I have a suggestion. I'm you're the closest person to
all of this. I have a suggestion that I thought
was missing in the production of this of TG well,
and it's real simple, and it has to do with
hitting into the enormous screen sixty three feet hides. It's gigantic,
thirty five yards away. It's hard to know. I think
that there should be a sound effect for when the
ball hits the screen that takes the ball from reality
to virtual to real to virtual. Right, So it's just
like a when the ball hits the screen, it's like
a all of a sudden, it's like, okay, now I've
hit the screen, so we know how long it took
for the ball to get from the player to the
screen and then possibly even some sort of dot or
some image of where the ball hit the screen. So
like if they're doing a high.
Speaker 1: Lob shot, a starburst right where.
Speaker 2: It is, or something subtle, it doesn't have to be big,
and it shouldn't be. It should be subtle. But it's
just like, oh, okay, that's where it is. Like if
they have to hit this seventy five yard shot, they
hit it all the way to the top of the screen,
versus hitting your you know, hitting out of their little
sand into the screen from thirty five yards away. But
they hit it low and it just made it over
the lip there. You know, something that gives you a
sense of where it is, that takes you from reality
to the virtual part of it.
Speaker 1: I'll pass it along and if it's a good idea,
you get the credits. It's a bad idea, they'll tell
me another one of my bad ideas. Yeah, I don't think. Look,
I don't think they're I think, well, I think they would.
I mean, like I said, I think they will do
things to make it better and better. I mean I'm
sure they will. I mean this is they adjust it
on the fly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean look at they did to the hammer.
They changed the rules of the hammer almost immediately, and
it was incredibly.
Speaker 1: Effective, much better much, no question, it was much better,
and that was a huge part. I don't know we'll
ever see, you know, a live golf event with the
with the hammer being thrown, but I mean it'd be
kind of cool to watch it. I mean, that changed
a lot of dynamics. But because I mean, when that
hammer is thrown, it changes their whole Now it changes
everything in a hurry. It used to be a game
called woof that everybody played, you know, it was kind
of like that. It was not that pressure five foot
or until they whoofed it either pick it up whatever.
But yeah, I can say i'm i personally obviously for
what they started out to do when the concept was there,
And of course they had the building collapse last year,
so they were delayed a year. And I was with
Mike McCarley and actually mister Blanks when that happened, and
you know, it was taken as okay, well that's okay,
we'll be ready to go next year. We'll be better prepared,
and everything works out for the best type of thing.
But nobody knew what it was going to be like
anybody how it was going to come across on TV
or and you know, it was a little bit more
like hockey. To me, being live was different than watching
it on TV a lot more, a lot more exciting
because you can see it happening a little better because
you can watch it. You can watch the reaction of
the ball and the player at the same time, which
you can on TV. You know, you can see if
the player likes it or not. And but all those
things I think, are you know there might you know
I've been a big proponent yeah, and again I have
been for a long time saying, you know, I wish
we would mic the golf backs on tour and how
many times you could flip that thing on and listen
to a caddy talk to the player and what was
going on and how it was going on.
Speaker 2: And then my lef.
Speaker 1: You know, at Augusta you can watch every shot of
every player online. You can watch I can watch Lucas
hit every shot. I don't know what that technology technology cost.
I don't know if he calls. It's played at the
same place every year. It's easier, But can you imagine
being able to watch a golfer. You want to watch
Lucas Glover. I paid three to ninety nine a month
to be able to watch him play every shot he
wants to play. Listen to him and his caddy talk.
Listen to get into the game. You know, I still listen.
I pay to listen to NASCAR. I don't watch much
Nascar anymore. I don't have the time, but I will
if i'm I will listen to a race because I
can hear the driver and the crew chief talking and
that's really exciting to me. Listen to what's going on.
And I don't know how many people they want. Is
it five million people that had the PGA tour out?
How many people would pay three ninety nine or five
ninety nine a month to be able to watch their
favorite player and you can watch it? You know I would.
I mean that's what I do with the masters. If
I'm watching online, I'm watching my guys play. I mean,
I want to see what they're doing. It's kind of fun.
But to be able to hear them talking, understand what
they're going through when they're on number twelve trying to
figure out the wind. You know, we had Lucas. Lucas
was you know, he's really close to the lead that
the players on Saturday and on number seventeen, I got
the hit it in the water. I don't know if
you know this. He hit it short to hit back
in the water. But after the round I got to
talk to the caddy and I said, hey, what was
going on there? And he goes, well, we had a
we only had about a five or six foot place
to hit it without hitting in the water. If you
hit it on the top shelf, that's going over the
water as the kid that playing it wheels out of
the tourist, I think it was hit it on top
of the shelf. It went long, Lucas went short, and
I'm like, what was going on? Said well, we knew
our max was a fifty six when knew this, and
we hit it. Lucas hit it perfect and that was
the whole thing. And then I said, well look at
the shot link what happened and his apex of the
flight was eighty one feet and it didn't get above
the grand stands behind him to fill the wind, so
it never got to fill the wind and people and
I mean that sounds kooky, but that's you know. So
the caddy and Lucas had that one sixteen to one
twenty shot that he had to hit down wind. That's
a fifty six. This is what we're going to do.
And he hit it and it comes up short turns out.
If it had been nine feet higher, it would have
probably landed on the right spot. But those grand stands
blocked the wind. Now excuse says, well, just what I'm saying.
But that's fun stuff to know. I mean, you're going
absolutely you know, I'm watching the stats of that. How
cool were the men to pop up? And that stats
show that his ball apex at eighty one feet and
it actually didn't catch the wind that they were seeing
on the green, and that to me is fun stuff.
He didn't miss it, he didn't. And then Wills Alataurus
hits it what fifteen more feet or yards and his
goes into water over said, there was just the greens
were firm. There was just so little room for air.
And what we also did was went and found one
of the best shots hit that day. I think it
was a kid, Davis Thompson, and he hit the same
club a couple mile an hour faster than Lucas, but
he hit it fourteen feet higher. And he hit it
ten feet and so we can go find the best shot.
What were the perfect parameters of that to hit that
shot and those things that are going on. That would
be I think for fans that really cool to understand
what's going on. And we got the Tampa the next week,
and obviously his fifty six was apex at eighty one
feet and they were talking about do we get a
different shaft to launch it higher? Do we these things?
And Lucas just turned around and says, so what you're saying,
you want me to hit it higher? I'll just hit
it higher. How about that? You know? But yeah, So
that to me is how do we capture the golf
fan back. Give them something they've never seen before, give
them inside track. I mean, who would not want to
listen to Jordan Spieth and his caddy every shot? I
mean the thing you can see it going on. You
can't hear them, but you I mean they're going over
some stuff. Or Bryson Dcembau and his caddy. Can you
imagine talking about the atmospheric pressure and the stuff that
they probably talk about. So, but you know, I'd said
on another show, I say, you know, there's an Einstein
quote that says no problem can be solved from the
same level it was created, and I think that's what's
happening right now. So I think both all the league,
all of professional golf has got to come up with
a different level to solve this problem. And I think
winning the golf fan back should be first and foremost
of the priority.
Speaker 2: Again, one of my favorite parts of TGL was the
hot mic situations or hot like segments where you got
to listen to these guys discuss their strategy and again
personality golf, team golf where you know you're not playing
against each other, you're playing as a team against another team,
but getting to hear them like that's one of the
things that I love about when when Bryson had Phil
Michelson on or anytime Phil Michelson's on YouTube, he's fascinating. Absolutely, Yeah,
he's just fat, he's so interesting, and he's he's so
smart about his golf that you can learn so much
from it and it's just so much fun.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, team golf out there is usually the player in
the caddy. The caddy, you know, I always you know,
my theory on the caddy is, you know, people talk
about this and that, and so we'll just imagine whatever
pitcher Adam Waynwright or Tom Siever without a good catcher.
And I called the caddy the catcher that's helping call
the call the pitches, and that's the team. When they're
playing individual golf, it's essentially him and the caddy are
teaming up to figure out what we're going to do,
what pitch we throw in, what are we going to
buil here? And it's the one thing is the difference
is they can do it and then and then hit
the shot that mirrors what they're trying to do. Most
of us, most of us camp, but to watch these
guys actually tell you where they're going to land the
golf ball. Lucas hit a shot. I don't know if
you saw on the first day he shot sixty six.
I think it was six hundred. He shot players on
eighteen and the pin was left front and Lucas hit
it probably twenty five feet right of there, a little long,
and then of course rolls back to what five feet
And I asked Tommy, the caddy has said, I said,
he hit his number there. He goes exactly where he
said he was going to hit it exactly and I
was like, and it gives you chills, Like that's what
we said, We're going to hit it right there, and
he did it and he goes and I meant, man,
it give me chills. He goes me too. It's just
but it goes back to how good these guys are,
how precise they are with their yardages, how far they
know they hit it, the how the most amazing things
they can do. And I wish we could bring it
out and show you they're trying to do these things.
Now obviously it's golf, they're not pulling it off all
the time, but incredible, you're trying to hit this shot
like this is a shot you're going to hit, and
how they go about it and how they and then
they do it all right, and they do it. So
that's what I think we need to do. That's what's
been interesting.
Speaker 2: That was part of the interesting element of TGL is
these guys now playing simulator golf. They're playing indoor golf,
so their shots weren't doing exactly what they expected them to.
And there were a lot of shots that just were like,
how did that happen? You can see it in their face. Well,
you're hitting from a flat lie always there's no win
to work with. You just got to get the line
right and stuff, and the yardage may or may not
work some of the times.
Speaker 1: He's missing some shot. I think everyone, I think, especially
web shots. When you see a guy hit a web
shot and it's four yards too short or too long,
it didn't pick it up right because they don't get that.
They don't know I mean they have to they have
to miss a golf shot. I mean they're more in
the two and three feet from one hundred and twenty
five yards than four or five yards, And so you
see guys hit a shot that they just there's just
they don't that's out of their league to hit it.
That difference and they're the distance difference is not there.
So but again I think the technology again will catch
up with that. And again I'm not saying that maybe
they did hit flyers, but I just watched some of them.
They're just they're they're too far off.
Speaker 2: But as somebody who as an average golfer, I kind
of loved it. It's like, oh, you can screw up too,
that's awesome. How do you deal with it? You know,
you could see in their face they would hit the shot,
and they would look at their team and was like,
what what just happened?
Speaker 1: What just And I when Lucas did his test match there,
when he did his first first time in the thing,
I got to go with him and all of it
was playing kind of and then he hit a wed shot.
I forget the number, but it went quite a bit
further and he looked at me and he looked at
the guy and he goes, you hit that, and he goes, now,
I hit it one twenty I'll say one twenty seven.
He goes, now I hit it one twenty seven and
it flew one thirty two. That's something wrong. And the
guy looked at me. He goes, is he serious? I said, no, no,
he's serious. He knows exactly how far he hit it.
And all of them do. That's what makes them so great.
And they don't need a machine to tell them they know.
I mean, that's what's pretty scary. But I think it'll
the technology wouldn't prove like and everything else, and you're
going to have mistakes. But this is another thing about golf.
I tell people, have you know, I play golf with
people and they hit a bad shot and I'm like,
they think Tour players don't hit those because TV never
shows you those shots. If they if you could watch
every player play every shot, you would see some pretty
god awful shots. We were talking about the Players Championship
in the eighteenth hold how difficult it is, and it
is right Cam Smith, Just Smith, Yeah, the kid Cam Smith.
The year Cam Smith won that golf tournament, he hit
it in the water three of the four days on
that whole Wow. And people don't And I tell people that,
well you know why he couldn't hit that many bad
shots and win. They go, yeah, they can, they do that,
they hit bad shots.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 1: I think when Tiger won by fifteen in the two
thousand and US Open, I think he made a triple
on the second hole. If I'm not mistaken, it happens.
I mean, and I think that would help too, to
see that. I don't need to see every great golf shot.
I mean, I think people do want to see the
best players in the world hit one that just go sideways,
you know, just oh, and it does. Oh I've seen.
I don't know if every client has hit the top
most of them have hit a shank, most of them.
I mean, it's a hard game. I mean I wish
people knew how difficult it was. And so when you
see these guys on when they are on, it is
the magical thing that they can do what they're doing,
I mean, and nothing that probably we experienced much in
our life. But first of all, well, we never visualize
what we're going to do that much like they are
visualizing the shot they're going to hit every one of them.
So we probably don't do that much. But when we do,
how rare it is to pull it off almost exactly
how it looked. And most amateurs I see them do
it just when they've got to hit over a tree
or under a tree, and they're only visualizing that part
of the shot, which makes them let go of the results.
And then they hit this great shot over the trees
where they were just trying to get it over the tree,
which is kind of part of it right once it
And so yeah, it's there's a lot of things we
can do to make this get improved, this product, and
it's not knocking the old product. It just means, man,
it's time to move on like it's.
Speaker 2: Time because you've got it. You've got a different audience.
It's not for everybody, but it could be for a
lot different a different audience and a younger audience. Great,
what do you think the long I mean, let's let's
pretend that TGL is long term and it carries itself
and continues to grow. What do you think the impact
on simulator and indoor golf is going to be in
the long run for you know, like indoor golf leagues,
indoor golf venues all over the country. Do you think
there's going to be an impact there? I think so.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, you know, in Sun Valley, Idaho,
where I've spent a lot of the winter, Sun Valley
has an indoor they have indoor simulators obviously for snowing
out there, and they have they have an indoor simulator
league already. My nephew lives out there. He plays on
the team, you know, And so yeah, I think you're
going to see more and more of that, especially in
climates that's not like this climate where we can play
twenty four to seven almost here, but up in the Northeast,
I mean it's it's or you know, up in the Midwest,
and you imagine like Thursday nights golf league and here
we go, We're going to go play it you know,
it replaced the gin game, you know, probably in.
Speaker 2: Clubs and bowling, and could replace bowling. And that's why
I think I think venues could open up with six
bowling alleys, four simulator screens, a bar, a restaurant, a
concert little you know, like Friday night concerts. Yeah, put
in ping pong tables too, while you're at it. You
know that's not going to corner space.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I agree, and you said
it very earlier. Is GoF as a whole is an
entertainment package. It is a competition, but it's still entertainment,
and I think we lose sight of that. So I
saw Patent Gazarre, dear friend, he lives here, places here,
had a little rough day and he punted his putter,
you know, and if you've ever played golf, you've either
punted a putter or wanted to write. And just one
of the best guys you ever meet. And he came
out with an apology. And I was telling somebody, so
what do you think about that? And I said, well,
the only thing you should apologize about is that he
probably could have kicked that pudder for their feet to try,
and he didn't need to apologize for that. That is,
if you haven't played this game for a living or
played period period, you're going to do that. And that's personality. Look,
I mean, I'm not trying to condone kids punting. Everybody's well,
kids will know pump putters, Well, they're going to punnelm anyhow,
you know what, we might as well. But I think
that the personalities and being authentic to who you are
out there instead of trying to fit a mold, you know.
I mean, you're going to see eruptions of anger. You're
going to see these things because this, I mean, these
guys are playing for their living. People don't realize when
they miss butts. It's it's a lot different than us,
even though I think most of the club golfers here
react the same way when they miss butts, but this
is their lives. So yeah, I would love to just
take the you know, take the training wheels off these
guys and say, listen, this is entertainment. I mean I
even saw Patrick Cantley get emotional. I mean, you know,
it's fun because this guy means dang good golfer obviously,
and he looks pretty stoic most of the times. But
it was fun to see him kind of like a smile.
And you know, and remember when Tiger made that putt
when he was Kevin Naw when he walked, you know,
he got it out of the hole, was reaching in
and he copied him on the seventeenth toe. And when
Tiger did it, the laugh that Tiger had that was real.
That was authentic laughter. And that's what this game is.
I mean, even though they're in all that stress, I'd
like to tell these guys, listen, let it go. Man,
be who you are and let's see what you got.
Speaker 2: When you put the highlight reel together of the first
season of TGL, you're gonna show pictures of Tiger not
only screwing up, but laughing so hard he's doubled over again,
bringing a back, bringing out and even finding guys like Horshel,
like Tom don Kim, guys who have big personalities, right,
are great for television.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: You look at Can'tley and like, come on, dude, give
me something here.
Speaker 1: I know it's I mean, I mean, that's who they are.
I mean, you can't you know that's who they they are,
But they're but somewhere in there is is somebody's going
to laugh, somebody's going to be mad. I mean, you know,
but again, I think it's gotten to where I mean
in the sense of they're all trying to fit in
this mold of how much time. I think that's what
goth is taking so long to play as well. You know,
it's like this this, and I mean these guys are
I mean, they are good enough at golf to play faster,
and they all need to understand that this is an
entertainment package. And those people watching, those fans are their bosses.
That's who they're that's who's paying their salaries. And these
corporations that are putting all this money up there their bosses.
So give them something, you know, spend a little extra
time with with you know, with these companies. I've always
said that, you know, I've always kind of mean, you know,
these players, they play, but you know, go spend a
couple they spend thirty minutes in the Wells Fargo tent.
Go around and introduce yourself and say thanks for coming
out and be a part of this thing. And you know,
a lot of it doesn't happen anymore. I know, the
tour tries to do a good job of that, but
you know, I always say, these fans that are in
your way and talking in your back swing, they're your bosses.
Everyone's give you this opportunity to play god, because if
they're not here, you're not playing for a lot of money,
I can promise you. Right, But again, it's the whole inn.
These guys understand that, look you are, you're you're more
of an entertainer than you're an athlete out there. I mean,
if you don't believe it, John Day Lee Trevino, I mean,
and again, and mister Nicholas was never animated, right, I mean,
but he had Sevy and me. You know, like I say,
there's it's okay to have a straight man. Somebody can
be dull, but I mean you've got to have Sergio
losing his mind. I mean, you got to have this happening.
And and again Patrick.
Speaker 2: Johnny Carson, right absolutely, And.
Speaker 1: I've always you know, Patrick reed people Gosh, I can't
believe any people say now good things. I said, Well,
you haven't mad him. He is a nice kid. He's
a nice guy. I mean, but when he's competing, he
competes different than other people. But we need him too.
I mean some I don't want to say this in
a bad way. But he's kind of like a villain.
And and you know he could win this Masters as
easy as anybody. He's playing good golf again, right, And
so people hate this guy like that guy, And I said, great,
hate them like them. I don't care, right, exactly, I've
had exactly except for Davis Love, I've had clients. I've had.
Most of my clients have people that don't like them
when people like them. Everybody like Davis. So, but we
need that, we need we need more of that. And
the only way to really do it is to be
able to watch them hit every shot, not just when
they hit a great shot, but put that camera on
these guys and watch where they hit it. But see
they're not scared to hit a bad shot because they
know what to do when that happens. They're not concerned
about their short game making being able to fix them.
I had a client, I said, what's He says, what's
going on with me? And I said, you're hitting too
many good golf shots? And he said, what's wrong with that?
I said, you're not hitting any great ones because you're
so protecting hitting bad shots that you're not hitting great ones.
I said, the great players. They try to hit the
great shot, and when they miss it, they know what
to do to save themselves. And they're not mad at
the miss. They knew they were taking a chance. So
it's those kind of things that you keep I mean,
these guys are how many greens did they hit on average?
Was it fourteen thirteen? So they're missing four and five
greens around. I mean it's a rule as a rule, yeah, yeah,
and we think they're perfect.
Speaker 2: Well listen, Bud, I know how busy you are. I
know what a hectic week this must have been for you,
and you've got one coming up in two weeks with
the Masters, and so I truly appreciate you making time
to just take a conversation with me here, because beyond
just talking about golf, I love talking with you about
the business of golf. Yeah, that's really what I find
the most fascinating.
Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you much. Oh my pleasure. And
I'm embarrassed to tell you that I'm busy. There are
people that work much harder in their lives. I mean,
I'll be in drel next week working, and then I'll
be in Augusta working, and then I'll be in Hilton
Head working and people. I don't anybody think that I'm illusing,
that I'm not having the best time of my life.
I just I have to like I'm trying a little
bit so they don't think I'm not doing anything. But yeah,
so's it's busy, but man, it's a fun busy. This
is the best time of the year. And baseball starts today.
Final four is coming up. I mean, this is the
kick off the fun for me.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah, it's awesome. But well, Mac, I again,
I truly appreciate your time and your friendship and maybe,
just maybe we'll bump into each other in Atlanta or
in Augusta when I get to my inaugural first time
going and maybe my only time, but I get to
check it off the list.
Speaker 1: I'm going to the mass What a place. I mean,
there's nothing. I mean, I see every golf course in
the world. But buddy, everybody in our business, the players,
the teachers, the trainers, the masters, is a big week.
I mean it is. I mean there's no one not
giddy that week. I mean, they let us on the grounds,
you know, they allow me to be, you know, to
be a part of it, and you know, there's so
many people that's never even got to go. I think
this is my thirty third Masters or something wild, and
you know, and and it feels like the first one.
I mean, it's you when you get that little piece
of paper that invites you to come. It's a pretty
cool day really, So I don't anybody think I'm killing myself.
It's it's fun.