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<v Speaker 1>The Lake Bodha murders is one of the most infamous

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<v Speaker 1>unsolved homicide cases in Finnish history. Four teenagers went out

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<v Speaker 1>to enjoy night of camping and were mysteriously attacked while

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<v Speaker 1>sleeping in their tent. Only one would survive. Despite an

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<v Speaker 1>extensive investigation, the person responsible for these heinous murders has

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<v Speaker 1>yet to be found.

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<v Speaker 2>Good warning the following podcast and the graphic cemeterial for

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<v Speaker 2>mature audience listeners. Hey, I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and you

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<v Speaker 2>are listening to Wicked and Grim.

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<v Speaker 1>A true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello. Hello, we don't have any can opening this morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Cheers because it is the morning right now earning.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a rarity for us that we're recording this

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<v Speaker 1>first thing in the in the nicko down? Is that

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<v Speaker 1>the same?

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<v Speaker 2>The nick of down is the same. I think you're

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<v Speaker 2>trying to, like say, like the nick of time and

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<v Speaker 2>like at dawn?

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<v Speaker 1>What is he saying though with down? Though?

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<v Speaker 2>There we go? That was an interesting combination.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually kind of like my my version better.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you thinking like the crack of dawn?

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe maybe the crack crack of dawn? Ask crack of dawn?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Funny story, my dad's name is down.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh there you go. You just made that weird?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah wow yeah, So welcome to Wicked and Grim. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we're tired.

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<v Speaker 1>We're recording this a couple of days early because now

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<v Speaker 1>is going on on a little Vaca.

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<v Speaker 2>Little holiday, and we're we thought, you know what, we

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<v Speaker 2>just did a Q and a break episode, so we

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<v Speaker 2>probably shouldn't break episode again. So we pushed through and

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<v Speaker 2>Nicole poll basically an all nighter to get this episode

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<v Speaker 2>done for us tonight while I was getting ready for

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<v Speaker 2>my vacation. Yeah, there we go, So thank you for that.

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<v Speaker 2>What else do you have to talk about? What do

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<v Speaker 2>you got?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh we did a pretty fun vote on Instagram.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's malarkey. That was bullshite.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh the competition was really unfair there, Like, I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 1>I yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, to lay down the foundation for this, the expectations were.

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<v Speaker 1>That I was going to get my ass and did

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<v Speaker 1>to me.

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<v Speaker 2>We knew that if you didn't know the last episode.

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<v Speaker 2>I bought some knockoff pit vipers for my vacation, right, so,

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<v Speaker 2>super cheap, super god awful. I looked like a complete tool,

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<v Speaker 2>but I wore them while we were recording last time.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh man, the whole episode was actually the worse for me.

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<v Speaker 1>I had the worst part in all of this. That

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<v Speaker 1>was terrible.

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<v Speaker 2>I had no problem.

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't even see your eyeballs. It sucked.

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<v Speaker 2>Again, I had no problem with it. So Yeah, anyways,

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<v Speaker 2>we decided to do a little who Wore It Best?

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<v Speaker 2>Over on Instagram and Facebook. I mean I think it

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<v Speaker 2>was posted on Facebook as well, but the poll was

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<v Speaker 2>on Instagram itself. Yeah, and it was who were at best?

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<v Speaker 1>Between myself and little Ripley, our little I was going

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<v Speaker 1>to say four, but I think she's still only three.

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<v Speaker 1>Three year old husky. Yep, he was cute as hell.

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<v Speaker 2>The results not surprising. I kicked Ripley's ass. No, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just kidding. Ripley kicked mine hand overfoot ninety four percent

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<v Speaker 2>to six percent. I did have six percent of the votes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's actually pretty good.

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<v Speaker 2>I had what was it like fourteen votes or something

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<v Speaker 2>like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you a bit more than that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you to those people. I can't go into

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<v Speaker 2>the analytics right now, but yeah, I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 2>waste that time, but thank you to those people who

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<v Speaker 2>did vote. I literally have looked through all your names

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<v Speaker 2>and I made a mental note you guys are now

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<v Speaker 2>in my good books. You earned some brownie points.

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<v Speaker 1>My gosh. I think the biggest problem was the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that I voted for Ripley.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, that is my issue with this whole.

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<v Speaker 1>That was Ben's main issue. Okay, no, but I didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>I tied my vote. So I have two accounts as

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<v Speaker 1>I have like my personal and then I have my business,

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<v Speaker 1>and I voted for each of you, which I thought

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<v Speaker 1>was very fair. I love you both.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is very fair if it was a fair fight. However,

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<v Speaker 2>we already said we knew I was going to get

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<v Speaker 2>my ass kicked, so I thought I would be able

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<v Speaker 2>to depend on your support.

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<v Speaker 1>You did. You got my one vote and.

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<v Speaker 2>Ripley got your other. That's that's bullshit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was That was the thing that actually made

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<v Speaker 1>Ben the most up set there.

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<v Speaker 2>So I it was malarkey. I failed through and through.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it was kind of funny though. Anyway. We

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<v Speaker 1>also have a few lovely patrons patrons patrons I always

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<v Speaker 1>like make over on Patreon, patrons on Patreon to thank.

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<v Speaker 2>This week that ten times fast patrons on.

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<v Speaker 1>Patriot And just a side note too, Like we said,

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<v Speaker 1>we are recording early, so if you do sign up

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<v Speaker 1>then in the time being, then you'll we'll thank you

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<v Speaker 1>next week.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, pretty much, you'll just be You'll be thanked eventually

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<v Speaker 2>because we're recording early and I'm gone for a week,

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<v Speaker 2>so yeah, we will catch up on you. You will

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<v Speaker 2>get your shout out, don't worry about that. So the

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<v Speaker 2>three we do have to shout out this week are

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<v Speaker 2>Mimu Wama, love that name, by the way.

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<v Speaker 1>That's awesome.

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<v Speaker 2>Deborah Morel's I hope I said her last name right.

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<v Speaker 2>She did tell us over in Patreon how to pronounce

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<v Speaker 2>her first name, so I'm glad she did that.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you her first name or last name her.

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<v Speaker 2>First name, because she's got like a little like asterisk

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<v Speaker 2>over the e and stuff, so sometimes it's like you

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<v Speaker 2>never know how it's really pronounced. Yeah, so she clarified

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<v Speaker 2>for us awesome, And Katie Johnson perfect, Katie, love your name.

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<v Speaker 2>It was easy to pronounce. I have no question about it.

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<v Speaker 2>So thank you for that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, thank you so much. That's so awesome. Oh my goodness.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I do want to tell everyone about a

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<v Speaker 2>contest we're currently running over on Patreon as well while

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<v Speaker 2>you're here for the next week, So it's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be what was the date again, It's next Friday, which

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<v Speaker 2>I think was the twelfth, No, the ninth, It's up

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<v Speaker 2>until Friday, September the ninth. We want people over on

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<v Speaker 2>Patreon to you know, do a little thing, send us

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<v Speaker 2>a little email with it all. I can't I can't

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<v Speaker 2>tell you guys, because you got to be a Patreon

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<v Speaker 2>to find it out. But yeah, if you want to

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<v Speaker 2>find with the cool giveaway where you can win an

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<v Speaker 2>exclusive shirt, you can become part of Patreon. If you

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<v Speaker 2>don't though, don't want to sign up for Patreon, don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to go over there, totally cool. We still love

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<v Speaker 2>you just as the same. Thank you for being here.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just being here and listening is awesome, So thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, should we get into this. We've rambled for like

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<v Speaker 2>five minutes already.

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<v Speaker 1>So I just have like a disclaimer I suppose is

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<v Speaker 1>that there's a lot of hard names to pronounce in here,

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<v Speaker 1>so as always, we're going to do our best.

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<v Speaker 2>Wickeds.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's funny. This is actually a case that I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like Ben would probably have done and chosen. So

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<v Speaker 1>I'm basically being Ben today, but with a little bit less.

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<v Speaker 2>You need to wear.

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<v Speaker 1>With a little bit less able to pronounce. Is that

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<v Speaker 1>how you'd wear that, I guess with lack of pronunciation,

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<v Speaker 1>ben with a little less lack of pronunciation and sunglasses. Yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I just have my normal, uh, my normal glasses, normal spectacles,

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<v Speaker 1>my computer. Okay, Oh my gosh. This was actually kind

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<v Speaker 1>of an interesting one to research. I enjoyed this, so

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<v Speaker 1>not that I enjoyed what happened, but it was just

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<v Speaker 1>a bit interesting. So today we are talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>Lake Botom murders.

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<v Speaker 2>So I've never even heard of this one.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, which is mind blowing. So. Lake Botom is

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<v Speaker 1>a Finnish lake located near the city of Espo and

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<v Speaker 1>twenty kilometers so twelve miles west of the Finnish capital Helsinki.

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<v Speaker 1>It just it's described as a large, tranquil lake surrounded

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<v Speaker 1>by small villages and stands of birch and pine trees.

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<v Speaker 1>The lake does measure approximately three kilometers in length and

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<v Speaker 1>one kilometer in width, so it's not like a huge lake.

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<v Speaker 2>Definitely not huge, but it sounds like a good size yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and birch and pine trees. That sounds like glorious country.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like it sounds it sounds great. So On Saturday,

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<v Speaker 1>June fourth, nineteen sixty four, teenagers arrived at the so

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<v Speaker 1>shore of Lake Bodom to enjoy a night of camping together.

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<v Speaker 1>The group would consist of two couples. So we have

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<v Speaker 1>sepo boys men, Anya Mackie, who went by her middle

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<v Speaker 1>name to Linky, being one of the couple, and then

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<v Speaker 1>Nils Gustavson and Mila Bjorklund being the other. So both

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<v Speaker 1>boys were eighteen and the girls being fifteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Two things here a well done in that pronunciation, thank you,

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<v Speaker 2>And two I'm pretty sure this is how every horror

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<v Speaker 2>movie in the eighties.

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<v Speaker 1>Acause I never even thought of that. Shit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like some couples going out camping to this

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<v Speaker 2>lake and the.

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<v Speaker 1>I never even thought of that. And honestly, this is

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred and percent a horror story. All they were

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<v Speaker 1>a movie or whatever you want to say.

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<v Speaker 2>There you go. All they need now is a cabin

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<v Speaker 2>and the necronomicon and you have evil dead or you

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<v Speaker 2>need now is like a camp with cabins and you

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<v Speaker 2>have Friday the thirteenth, Like.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, we're really set in the mood here for this thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh. Okay, So they arrived at the lake

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<v Speaker 1>on the boys motorcycles. They lean them up against two

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<v Speaker 1>trees to park and went about pitching their light colored

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<v Speaker 1>tent for the night. And so to describe I guess

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<v Speaker 1>the tent, it's kind of one of those ones that

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<v Speaker 1>has like a string in the middle and then the

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<v Speaker 1>tents like.

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<v Speaker 2>How it was like those like triangular.

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<v Speaker 1>Strangle or once. Yeah, and it's very and it's light colored.

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<v Speaker 1>It seemed like it was a bit small for four people,

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<v Speaker 1>so they kind of had to like in there, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>So Seppel was the oldest of the group. He had

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<v Speaker 1>turned eighteen in January and was working as an apprentice electrician. Nils,

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<v Speaker 1>who was best friends with Sepel since they were like

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<v Speaker 1>around twelve years old or so, had turned eighteen less

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<v Speaker 1>than a month before the camping trip, and he too

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<v Speaker 1>was taking a similar path as Seppel as an electrician.

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<v Speaker 1>So they seem like they're very close boys and like

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<v Speaker 1>grew up I guess a little bit together in their

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<v Speaker 1>teen years anyway, and then we're taking a similar path

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<v Speaker 1>as adults. So Tulinki was the youngest of the group.

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<v Speaker 1>She just celebrated her fifteenth birthday three months prior to

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<v Speaker 1>the trip. Her father had been against the camping trip,

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<v Speaker 1>but she was able to get her mother to persuade

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<v Speaker 1>him into letting her go. I mean rightfully, so rightfully.

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<v Speaker 1>So they were still in high school and these boys

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<v Speaker 1>weren't right.

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<v Speaker 2>Eighteen with fifteen, I mean, like retrospect, Yeah, three years

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<v Speaker 2>difference isn't very big that age.

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<v Speaker 1>At that age, three.

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<v Speaker 2>Years is a fairly big gap.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So and then finally we had Mila. There was

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<v Speaker 1>some speculation in the group maybe out there celebrating her birthday,

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<v Speaker 1>as she was just two days shy of turning sixteen.

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<v Speaker 1>So Tulinky and Mila were also best friends, so kind

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<v Speaker 1>of cool like that they're all just like, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>I love that. It's hard to have like good couple friends, right, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Usually it's like couples are like the guy is friends

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<v Speaker 2>with the guy because it's like the girls are friends

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<v Speaker 2>and vice versa. It's like, not always do you find

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<v Speaker 2>people who are actually all friends exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And it just had worked out that way because one

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<v Speaker 1>of the couple started dating and then introduced the other

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<v Speaker 1>and then they kind of started deliking each other too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and there we went. So, yeah, you had to

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<v Speaker 2>find a relationship between individuals and just have everyone be

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<v Speaker 2>chill with it. Yeah, that's cool.

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<v Speaker 1>So after setting up camp, the two girls decided to

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<v Speaker 1>go for a swim while the boys enjoyed some bevies,

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<v Speaker 1>some bebes, some bevies. There's an entry in Mila's diary

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<v Speaker 1>from evening where she wrote that Seppo and Nills were drunk,

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<v Speaker 1>they were up at two am, and that Seppo had

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<v Speaker 1>gone fishing. So from my understanding, the two girls didn't

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily partake in drinking that night, and that the couples

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<v Speaker 1>did go to bed around midnight, but Seppo got up

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<v Speaker 1>in the middle of the night to go fishing, which

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<v Speaker 1>I can kind of explain here. In a sack One

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<v Speaker 1>article I read, it mentioned it was a white night.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know what that is? I had no idea

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<v Speaker 1>what that was.

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<v Speaker 2>White night?

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<v Speaker 1>So, which is when the sun dips just below the

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<v Speaker 1>horizon and the light has like a grayish quality. It's

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<v Speaker 1>almost like someone dialed down the brightness for a few hours.

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<v Speaker 1>So it explains why he might have been up maybe

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<v Speaker 1>having trouble fishing or sorry, sleeping, because it wasn't totally

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<v Speaker 1>dark out and that he could still see enough to

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<v Speaker 1>go fishing.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, gotcha? H Yeah, interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>So then the sun would rise again at four in

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<v Speaker 1>the morning, and that's about that until some time between

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<v Speaker 1>the hour of four and six am, when it's believed

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<v Speaker 1>the incident or attack occurred. Oh shit, So the discovery

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<v Speaker 1>isn't quite cut and dry. There's a few stories out there,

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<v Speaker 1>but the most common one I went with, and it

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<v Speaker 1>seems to go as follows.

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<v Speaker 2>You literally have me like on the edge of my

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<v Speaker 2>seat right now. I'm so like, like, what the fuck

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<v Speaker 2>happens here?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh it's not good, dude, it's not good. So at

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<v Speaker 1>six am on June fifth, when the boys were out

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<v Speaker 1>or sorry, two boys, this is separate boys. Six am

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<v Speaker 1>June fifth, two boys were out early bird watching. From

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<v Speaker 1>a distance, they could see the teen's campsite, which at

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<v Speaker 1>this point was just a collapse tent, and they also

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<v Speaker 1>claimed that they saw a blonde man walking away from

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<v Speaker 1>the site. It isn't until sometime later, though, around eleven am,

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<v Speaker 1>that the actual gruesome scene is discovered. Was discovered by

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<v Speaker 1>a man named Esco, who alerted the police, and when

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<v Speaker 1>the police did arrive on the scene it was about noon,

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<v Speaker 1>so quite a bit sometime later. Now, the scene that

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<v Speaker 1>Esco discovered and that the police were faced with was

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<v Speaker 1>horrifying to say the least outside the tent was Nils,

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<v Speaker 1>who thankfully was still alive. He was unconscious and definitely injured,

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<v Speaker 1>but alive. Apparently it wasn't until the police got to

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<v Speaker 1>the scene that was even realized that he was still alive.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Now inside the collapse tent were the bodies of Sepo

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<v Speaker 1>and Tulinky, with Mila's body being draped over the slashed

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<v Speaker 1>and blood soaked tent. The killer had not injured the

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00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:45.879
<v Speaker 1>teens from inside the tent, but had attacked them from

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00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:51.000
<v Speaker 1>outside using a knife and an unidentified blunt object, possibly

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<v Speaker 1>a rock.

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<v Speaker 2>Fuck. This is literally straight out of a horror movie.

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<v Speaker 1>So they what had happened apparently is like they cut

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<v Speaker 1>to the strings of the tent, so the tent collapsed

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<v Speaker 1>on the teens and then they went to town murdering them.

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<v Speaker 1>Fuck like you would be like that. That is just

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<v Speaker 1>horrifying to.

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<v Speaker 2>Think, no kidding.

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<v Speaker 1>So the murder weapons to this day have not been found.

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<v Speaker 1>All four teenagers suffered serious blows to the head with

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<v Speaker 1>said blunt object and had broken jaws. Both Sepo and

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<v Speaker 1>Mala had been stabbed with Mala's injuries being significantly more

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<v Speaker 1>brutal than the others. She was found undressed from the

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00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:38.480
<v Speaker 1>waist down and was stabbed fifteen times, with some of

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00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.279
<v Speaker 1>the wounds inflicted after she had already died.

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<v Speaker 2>Fuck.

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00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:46.840
<v Speaker 1>Several items that should have been at the crime scene weren't,

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00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:51.759
<v Speaker 1>which puzzled detectives, including the keys to the boy's motorcycles,

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00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:56.600
<v Speaker 1>but the motorcycles themselves were still left behind. Wallets, watches,

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00:15:56.679 --> 00:16:01.600
<v Speaker 1>and items of clothing were also taken, and belongings were

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00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:06.559
<v Speaker 1>scattered around, including Nil's shoes, which were hidden approximately five

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00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:10.000
<v Speaker 1>hundred meters from the murder site. Under Like, I think

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00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:13.759
<v Speaker 1>it was like a rock or something. Okay, so as

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00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:19.559
<v Speaker 1>it can happen. Unfortunately, there are many errors within the investigations,

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00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:20.559
<v Speaker 1>of course.

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<v Speaker 2>I can I stop you for a second and kind

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<v Speaker 2>of tell you where my mind is going. I think

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00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:30.320
<v Speaker 2>this is a vagrant of sort. I think it's some

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00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:36.159
<v Speaker 2>individual who lives out in the woods. It seems like

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00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:39.919
<v Speaker 2>he found an opportunity. Like maybe he not doesn't like people,

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00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.879
<v Speaker 2>not used to people. Maybe he literally grew up as

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00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:45.000
<v Speaker 2>a fucking child out in the bush alone. I don't know,

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00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:47.759
<v Speaker 2>but someone who's out in the bush and doesn't like

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00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:51.120
<v Speaker 2>people doesn't see them as people, just saw them as

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00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:57.120
<v Speaker 2>an opportunity to take things for himself. So things like

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00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:01.120
<v Speaker 2>shoes that he grabbed and then realize they don't really

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00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:02.679
<v Speaker 2>fit or maybe I'm going to stow them for later

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00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.359
<v Speaker 2>or something like that. Took these odds and ends. He

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00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:07.839
<v Speaker 2>doesn't know how to drive a motorbicle a motorbike at all,

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<v Speaker 2>so we just took things and went off to wherever

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00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:17.799
<v Speaker 2>he lived. M interesting, that's kind of where my mind's

329
00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:20.839
<v Speaker 2>going right now. But there's more details to come, I'm sure.

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<v Speaker 2>So that really well could change.

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<v Speaker 1>Well and did I say that this is unsolved?

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<v Speaker 2>You did?

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00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:29.599
<v Speaker 1>Okay? Yeah, So yeah, there are like four four theories

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00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:32.960
<v Speaker 1>suspects I suppose that will go through. So this is

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00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:34.240
<v Speaker 1>like totally a bend case.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm. I love these ones where you get to

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00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:38.039
<v Speaker 2>like have.

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00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:40.200
<v Speaker 1>Theories and you and your mind gets kind of wander

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00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:41.000
<v Speaker 1>and figure it out.

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00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:42.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you get to like talk about it and try

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00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:45.759
<v Speaker 2>and think and come up with possibilities and well what if?

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00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:48.640
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, it's it's intriguing.

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00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:50.119
<v Speaker 1>Totally, Yeah, it absolutely is.

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<v Speaker 2>And the biggest thing is because it really gets you

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00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:55.759
<v Speaker 2>talking about the psyche of individuals because I mean sure, Okay,

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00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:59.599
<v Speaker 2>an individual does a heinous crime and they take someone's life,

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<v Speaker 2>they go to court, and they're in jail. Most of

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<v Speaker 2>the time, there's not much to really ask questions about

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<v Speaker 2>as far as why. Sometimes they say it sometimes it's

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<v Speaker 2>pretty cut and dry, or sometimes it's just they're.

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00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:13.720
<v Speaker 1>Really weird, or they could be throwing you right off

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00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:15.599
<v Speaker 1>and saying yeah, like something completely.

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<v Speaker 2>But even still, the questions are much more narrow because

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00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:20.519
<v Speaker 2>you know who it is, you know the time, you

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00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:24.519
<v Speaker 2>know everything. When you don't know these things, you start

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00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:27.359
<v Speaker 2>you need to ask these broad questions to even begin

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00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:30.400
<v Speaker 2>to narrow it down. And that idea of these broad

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00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:35.119
<v Speaker 2>questions to try and understand what the fuck is crazy?

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00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:35.640
<v Speaker 2>Wild to me?

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00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, and even with this case, so, I mean,

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00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.799
<v Speaker 1>there isn't it even a ton known because well, three

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00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:46.440
<v Speaker 1>of the four victims are deceased and the one has

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<v Speaker 1>a head had a head injury. And then as in

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00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:53.319
<v Speaker 1>boat to go through, like the police kind of watched

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00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:54.480
<v Speaker 1>it fucked up a bit here.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well let's hear how badly fucked up.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're ready, I'm ready. So the police did not

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<v Speaker 1>quarantine off the area, and they failed to take official

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<v Speaker 1>records of their findings. To put it vaguely here.

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00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:16.039
<v Speaker 2>What that's literally like those are your final steps.

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00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:20.559
<v Speaker 1>That's like your jobs. So basically, once the police did leave,

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00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:27.000
<v Speaker 1>the crime scene wasn't blocked off whatsoever, so curious onlookers

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<v Speaker 1>and careless campers were able to trample around and disturb

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<v Speaker 1>the murder scene, further contamining the site and disturbing any

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<v Speaker 1>pressor's evidence that may have been left behind from the

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00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:42.160
<v Speaker 1>initial search that is wild. Once the mistake was realized,

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00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:45.880
<v Speaker 1>they called the military inn to help, so invited more

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00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.519
<v Speaker 1>people onto the crime scene to assist with looking for

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00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:54.119
<v Speaker 1>evidence and missing items like the murder weapons. Searches of

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00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:57.799
<v Speaker 1>the lake was done with metal detectorists I think it's

381
00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:01.880
<v Speaker 1>how you say it, and archa digs as this set

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<v Speaker 1>as the site never uncovered any missing items, so like

383
00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:08.880
<v Speaker 1>the weapons, like all those people coming in there, nothing

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00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:12.960
<v Speaker 1>was ever discovered. And it said that maybe onlookers could

385
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:17.759
<v Speaker 1>have taken something right like curious a souvenir potentially, or

386
00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:21.920
<v Speaker 1>like the police might even like loss some of the things.

387
00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah so, or potentially someone could have maybe taken it

388
00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:26.119
<v Speaker 2>thinking it's like, oh someone lost this, I won if

389
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:28.319
<v Speaker 2>I can find the owner, not even thinking it's related

390
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:30.960
<v Speaker 2>to the crimes. Oh absolutely, yeah, Oh I found someone's keys.

391
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:31.720
<v Speaker 2>I wonder who these are.

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<v Speaker 1>And then to top it all off, many of the

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00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:37.759
<v Speaker 1>items which were collected were so soaked in the victim's blood,

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00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:40.160
<v Speaker 1>so the evidence that may have been left on them

395
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:41.079
<v Speaker 1>was destroyed.

396
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

397
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:47.599
<v Speaker 1>So like it was literally like what was collected? Really?

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00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:49.920
<v Speaker 1>You know what? I don't know, it was just from

399
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:53.200
<v Speaker 1>the beginning, just fucked for lack of better words.

400
00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

401
00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:57.279
<v Speaker 1>So once Nils, who they had kind of put some

402
00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.000
<v Speaker 1>pressure on, the sole survivor of the teens, have worked

403
00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.440
<v Speaker 1>covered enough, he was interviewed by the police regarding the incident,

404
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:07.920
<v Speaker 1>like maybe he remembers some things. He remembered very little

405
00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:11.400
<v Speaker 1>to nothing about the attack or much of the prior evening.

406
00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:15.160
<v Speaker 1>He was drinking right, and he had suffered a head injury,

407
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.480
<v Speaker 1>so it's not to be completely unexpected, but it was

408
00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:22.559
<v Speaker 1>definitely disappointing. The one thing that he did remember, though,

409
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:25.160
<v Speaker 1>was a blonde man who he glimpsed through one of

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00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:28.240
<v Speaker 1>the rips in the tent during the attack, which was

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00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:31.960
<v Speaker 1>interesting because the boys out bird watching said they saw

412
00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:34.359
<v Speaker 1>a blonde man walking away from the site at around

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00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:40.960
<v Speaker 1>six am that morning, and there was another potential witness, Olive,

414
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:44.279
<v Speaker 1>who was fourteen years old and fishing at the time,

415
00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:48.559
<v Speaker 1>that also saw a blonde man roughly between twenty to

416
00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.240
<v Speaker 1>thirty around five foot eight inches tall, running from the

417
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.799
<v Speaker 1>location of the tent around six am as well. Oh shit,

418
00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:58.319
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, so that's something.

419
00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:00.599
<v Speaker 2>I would say that is most likely we are men.

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00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:04.319
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I would say so too. So police allegedly interviewed

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00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:06.440
<v Speaker 1>around four thousand people.

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00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

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00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:10.400
<v Speaker 1>So though they watched the crime scene, they did seem

424
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.960
<v Speaker 1>to put in their efforts in regards to interviewing people.

425
00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:14.599
<v Speaker 1>But that's a lot of people.

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<v Speaker 2>That seems absurd to say they interviewed four thousand. How

427
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.839
<v Speaker 2>could four thousand people, even I don't know skin to

428
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:22.680
<v Speaker 2>be correlated to this.

429
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:28.079
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean they're yeah, rumors maybe are spreading. Then

430
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:31.039
<v Speaker 1>they're just like chit chat and people even on their doorstep,

431
00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:32.880
<v Speaker 1>like who knows. I don't know how they.

432
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.720
<v Speaker 2>Got to that number, but still four thousand is a lot.

433
00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:41.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So the lives of Sepo, Mila and Tulinky were

434
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:45.440
<v Speaker 1>celebrated on June thirteenth. Their white coffins were covered in

435
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:49.039
<v Speaker 1>sweet pea blossoms with the teens being buried together.

436
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:50.480
<v Speaker 2>I like that.

437
00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:53.000
<v Speaker 1>I know. I'm just like, oh my gosh, Well they're

438
00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:54.160
<v Speaker 1>all friends, I guess.

439
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.519
<v Speaker 2>Right, hm, and they went through something incredibly tragic together.

440
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:01.400
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, So that brings us to the list of

441
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:05.440
<v Speaker 1>potential suspects. Really like, there's not a lot that's known here,

442
00:23:05.799 --> 00:23:09.359
<v Speaker 1>and there's four of them, So in no particular order,

443
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:14.200
<v Speaker 1>we'll start with Carl Jilstrom, also referred to as the

444
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:17.559
<v Speaker 1>Kiosk Keeper or kios Man, being that he ran a

445
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:22.359
<v Speaker 1>small wooden summer kios at Oodola Beach. I might be

446
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:25.200
<v Speaker 1>I've watched that story just a few hundred meters from

447
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.720
<v Speaker 1>where the teens were camping that night, and he also

448
00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:28.680
<v Speaker 1>lived close by.

449
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:32.920
<v Speaker 2>So did no one hear any fucking screams or anything?

450
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:35.519
<v Speaker 1>Even the people that were out there and stuff. No

451
00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:39.960
<v Speaker 1>one apparently heard anything. Wow, which I find very odd.

452
00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:42.720
<v Speaker 1>That is because I was thinking, like, this was it's

453
00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:43.799
<v Speaker 1>not that big.

454
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, and I was kind of almost thinking he

455
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:47.079
<v Speaker 2>was a little bit more secluded. But by the sounds

456
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:48.880
<v Speaker 2>of this guy's only like a few hundred meters away,

457
00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:49.839
<v Speaker 2>you said, the.

458
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:55.440
<v Speaker 1>Burdis guy, Yeah, he lived close by. Oh yeah, but

459
00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:56.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if he would have been at his key.

460
00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:58.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I guess at the time.

461
00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Right, like it was very early in the morning.

462
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.799
<v Speaker 2>Well, the only thing I was thinking was like the

463
00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:03.720
<v Speaker 2>bird watchers, I'm like, did they not hear the screams?

464
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:05.799
<v Speaker 2>But then I was also like, well, they're probably a

465
00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:09.039
<v Speaker 2>distracted and maybe you know, thinking maybe it was a

466
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:10.720
<v Speaker 2>bird off in the distance and that's what drew their

467
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.920
<v Speaker 2>attention to looking that way to the camp. Who knows,

468
00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:14.440
<v Speaker 2>but you.

469
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Would think that it would be it would have been

470
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:21.160
<v Speaker 1>very loud, I would think so for any people being murdered, sound.

471
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:22.599
<v Speaker 2>Travels across water very well.

472
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:24.559
<v Speaker 1>I know I kind of thought of that too, but

473
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.400
<v Speaker 1>I could nothing really ever said anything about that. It

474
00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:32.839
<v Speaker 1>just said that, for example, the one little boy fisherman

475
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:37.759
<v Speaker 1>who was fourteen, didn't hear anything. So so many locals

476
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:42.319
<v Speaker 1>suspected Carl because he was known to be hostile towards campers.

477
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:48.000
<v Speaker 1>One local man, Ulf Johansson, he's a local author and councilman,

478
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.079
<v Speaker 1>would tell Finnland News website that no local would have

479
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:55.720
<v Speaker 1>camped in that place where the four camped. The locals

480
00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:58.279
<v Speaker 1>knew that kiosk Man would cut the tent strings so

481
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:01.640
<v Speaker 1>that the tent fell down, felt loud, and left. This

482
00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:04.640
<v Speaker 1>is what the kios Man always did. If someone dared

483
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:06.960
<v Speaker 1>to set up a tent on the site, he chased

484
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:10.319
<v Speaker 1>away everyone who came there to camp. He claimed that

485
00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Karl had mental health issues so severe that he was

486
00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:17.240
<v Speaker 1>admitted to hospital during World War Two, and on top

487
00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:20.359
<v Speaker 1>of all of that, also had a drinking problem.

488
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:22.240
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, And.

489
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:25.440
<v Speaker 1>He was territorial over his section of the lake shore

490
00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.200
<v Speaker 1>and a person Johansson, being of similar age to the

491
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:32.720
<v Speaker 1>murdered kids, said Carl hit him in the back with

492
00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:35.240
<v Speaker 1>a rock one day as he cycled along the road

493
00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:37.960
<v Speaker 1>to the lake past Karl's kios.

494
00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:45.200
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit. Okay, So either in my mind we have

495
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:50.000
<v Speaker 2>our individual or we have someone who did it like him,

496
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:52.519
<v Speaker 2>knowing that it would be pinned on him.

497
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it gets there's more here. It gets worse with him.

498
00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:00.440
<v Speaker 1>So Nils and Seppo apparently bought lemonade for from Karl

499
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:04.240
<v Speaker 1>on June fourth, the day they arrived at the lake. Police, however,

500
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:06.400
<v Speaker 1>found no evidence to link him to the murders and

501
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:10.839
<v Speaker 1>accepted his alibi, and his wife backed up his alibi,

502
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:14.039
<v Speaker 1>saying that he was at home asleep with her like

503
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.759
<v Speaker 1>in bed. But in nineteen sixty nine, So nine years later,

504
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:22.480
<v Speaker 1>after the murders, while drunk one night, Carl allegedly admitted

505
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:27.240
<v Speaker 1>to committing the murders to a neighbor, saying, you bloody idiot,

506
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:30.519
<v Speaker 1>don't you realize I'm the Bodham murderer? What am I

507
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:34.519
<v Speaker 1>going to do? In August of that year, after a

508
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:39.039
<v Speaker 1>three day drinking binge, Carl actually drowned in Lake Bodom,

509
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:44.200
<v Speaker 1>most likely by suicide. Police dismissed his confession due to

510
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:48.599
<v Speaker 1>his drunken state, and they considered him disturbed. However, I'm

511
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:51.359
<v Speaker 1>not too sure when, but as his wife was on

512
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:55.400
<v Speaker 1>her deathbed, she recanted her alibi, saying she gave a

513
00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:59.519
<v Speaker 1>false alibi and that she believed her husband actually committed

514
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:00.000
<v Speaker 1>the murder.

515
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:04.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, what the fuck we have our guy?

516
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:08.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it seems very I don't know.

517
00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:11.640
<v Speaker 2>The wife believes he did it. Yeah, falsified her alibi.

518
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.039
<v Speaker 2>He confess confessed in a drunken stupor, and the police

519
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:17.240
<v Speaker 2>shrugged it off because he was drunk. And yet when

520
00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:19.920
<v Speaker 2>people are drunk, that's usually when they're the most honest.

521
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:24.079
<v Speaker 1>He already had an aggressive tendency towards campers like he

522
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:26.079
<v Speaker 1>didn't seem like he was a happy man.

523
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:29.319
<v Speaker 2>And some of the things that he did in the

524
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:32.000
<v Speaker 2>past link up to things that happened in this crowd.

525
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:35.359
<v Speaker 2>We have our fucking dude case closed. Podcasts done, ladies

526
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:37.599
<v Speaker 2>and gentlemen. You don't have to listen anymore.

527
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:39.559
<v Speaker 1>I know that one's very convincing.

528
00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:42.880
<v Speaker 2>Hey, I'm sorry, but I'm sold your soul. I don't

529
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:43.400
<v Speaker 2>think that they.

530
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:45.599
<v Speaker 1>Don't even want to hear any of the other ones.

531
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:49.119
<v Speaker 2>I want to hear. But I'm almost guaranteeing you that

532
00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:51.240
<v Speaker 2>I will not be have my mind changed.

533
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, I should note though Karl was dark haired,

534
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:57.640
<v Speaker 1>he didn't have blond hair, but some have said it

535
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:00.440
<v Speaker 1>was him they saw back from the murder scene that night,

536
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.400
<v Speaker 1>and we're just too afraid to call the police about him.

537
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:06.799
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know that's what we have about Carl.

538
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:08.720
<v Speaker 2>But some not cool Carl.

539
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, this is a fucking thing.

540
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:13.559
<v Speaker 2>Yes it is.

541
00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:16.079
<v Speaker 1>Wow. Someone was like, you need to make a T

542
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:18.640
<v Speaker 1>shirt of I'd wear that shit. But then you run

543
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:20.519
<v Speaker 1>into someone in real life that same Carl and they'll

544
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:21.319
<v Speaker 1>be like, what do you mean.

545
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:23.319
<v Speaker 2>You just look at them and just be like, not

546
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:24.759
<v Speaker 2>cool Carl, and you walk away.

547
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:26.359
<v Speaker 1>And you will leave the situation.

548
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:28.759
<v Speaker 2>This merch is going to happen. It's going to be

549
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:29.799
<v Speaker 2>a shirt that says not cool.

550
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.759
<v Speaker 1>It would be pretty funny. Okay, So another suspect would

551
00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:38.039
<v Speaker 1>be Hans ass Assmen. Is that how you would say

552
00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:41.920
<v Speaker 1>that asthmen? Asmen is assmen or asthmen. We have a

553
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:44.680
<v Speaker 1>funeral home with the same kid. I think we've mentioned

554
00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:46.559
<v Speaker 1>this sort it's a terrible name for a funeral home,

555
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:52.359
<v Speaker 1>but Asman's Funeral Asman's Funeral Chapel, which actually was featured

556
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:54.640
<v Speaker 1>on Ellen at one point. Oh seriously.

557
00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they were going through some memes or something in

558
00:28:56.519 --> 00:28:57.920
<v Speaker 2>a picture of it was brought up and she's like,

559
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:00.480
<v Speaker 2>Asman's Funeral Chapel taking care of you and the ter end.

560
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:03.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean it's quite the thing. So what actually

561
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:07.680
<v Speaker 1>they pronounced it ah Asman, But I think I don't

562
00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:10.039
<v Speaker 1>know if Hans was Asthmen, I don't know. I'll probably

563
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:12.119
<v Speaker 1>go back and forth. Asmen's funnier.

564
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:16.359
<v Speaker 2>We don't necessarily want to just say, hey, let's talk

565
00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:17.720
<v Speaker 2>about the funny things in true crime.

566
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:19.839
<v Speaker 1>Well, this is a suspect though, so we don't care

567
00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:20.359
<v Speaker 1>about him.

568
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, we're not going to assume he's guilty.

569
00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:26.559
<v Speaker 1>I suppose fine, I'll be nicer asthmen.

570
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:28.400
<v Speaker 2>I'll call him well, whatever it is.

571
00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:33.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So Asmin was blonde. Okay, there's one thing.

572
00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:35.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I'm so old. This is the guy.

573
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're changing your course here. So and he was

574
00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:42.119
<v Speaker 1>thirty six years old, so fit the description the investigators had,

575
00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:45.799
<v Speaker 1>and he also lived close to the lake. Something I

576
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:50.000
<v Speaker 1>haven't mentioned yet is that both Nils and oo Levy.

577
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:52.599
<v Speaker 1>I really hope I'm saying that right. The fourteen year

578
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.079
<v Speaker 1>old that was fishing went under hypnosis to see what

579
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:59.440
<v Speaker 1>they could remember, and they just described a man who

580
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:02.680
<v Speaker 1>had actually quite a resemblance to Asmen.

581
00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:04.920
<v Speaker 2>You didn't tell me that they had hiten. Now, so

582
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:05.359
<v Speaker 2>there's more.

583
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:08.160
<v Speaker 1>There's a lot more information, Ben. You might have spoken

584
00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:09.119
<v Speaker 1>way too fucking sick.

585
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.240
<v Speaker 2>I thought you had given all the information on the case,

586
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.839
<v Speaker 2>and now it was just information on the individuals to come.

587
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I like to sprinkle it all throughout you.

588
00:30:16.119 --> 00:30:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, So I might change my mind then if

589
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:20.079
<v Speaker 2>more information.

590
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:24.119
<v Speaker 1>Actually you might so. Oddly enough, Asmen had gone to

591
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:28.920
<v Speaker 1>the Helsinki hospital the day after the murders, too, suffering

592
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:32.960
<v Speaker 1>from stomach complaints. It was noted that his fingernails were

593
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:36.759
<v Speaker 1>quite dirty like basically black, His clothes were covered in dirt,

594
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:39.680
<v Speaker 1>and there also seemed to be a reddish stain appearing

595
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:42.640
<v Speaker 1>on them that a lot of people thought was blood.

596
00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:47.359
<v Speaker 1>Hospital staff reported that Asmin was drunk and acting nervous

597
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:52.240
<v Speaker 1>and aggressive. Place did question him, but dismissed him as

598
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:54.920
<v Speaker 1>a suspect, being that he was with his girlfriend and

599
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:59.240
<v Speaker 1>two other people in Helsinki overnight and the following morning.

600
00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:04.400
<v Speaker 1>His clothes were apparently never tested for blood, which.

601
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:06.599
<v Speaker 2>Is terrible, okay, but he does have an alibi.

602
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:10.559
<v Speaker 1>Though he does have an alibi. So though Asman didn't

603
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:14.279
<v Speaker 1>necessarily have a motive to murder the teens, he has

604
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.480
<v Speaker 1>also been linked to other unsolved murders of people in Finland.

605
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit so the murder.

606
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:24.640
<v Speaker 1>Of seventeen year old Kulinki Sorry on the west coast

607
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:28.279
<v Speaker 1>of Finland in May nineteen fifty three, and a double

608
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:33.359
<v Speaker 1>killing of campers in North Karelia, Finland in July nineteen

609
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:38.680
<v Speaker 1>fifty nine. A series of popular books theorized that Asmen

610
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:43.799
<v Speaker 1>committed the Lake Boaha murders and these others, speculating that

611
00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:47.279
<v Speaker 1>he may be a serial killer that's never been caught.

612
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:52.200
<v Speaker 1>He died in nineteen ninety eight. Now this is a

613
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:54.200
<v Speaker 1>side note, but I need to put it in his section.

614
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:59.599
<v Speaker 1>There's a photograph that surfaced from the funeral. It's a

615
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:02.480
<v Speaker 1>crowd of people, and within the crowd is a person

616
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:05.720
<v Speaker 1>with quite a resemblance to the drawing that was done

617
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:08.359
<v Speaker 1>up from Nils describing what they attack or look like

618
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:11.240
<v Speaker 1>while he was under his hypnosis from.

619
00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:12.400
<v Speaker 2>The what funeral story?

620
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:15.279
<v Speaker 1>Exactly like the funeral of the teens. Okay, So the

621
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:19.960
<v Speaker 1>identity of this mysterious man does remain unknown, but some

622
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:24.000
<v Speaker 1>do believe that it looks like Asmin, and sources say

623
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Asmen wasn't in attendance at the funeral though, And I

624
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:31.920
<v Speaker 1>can show you this photo. So this is the photo

625
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.000
<v Speaker 1>of the man. It's actually like it looks like so weird.

626
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:38.240
<v Speaker 1>That's the funeral photo of the man.

627
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, interesting, that's really hard to see. That's like a

628
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:44.839
<v Speaker 2>super old photo. And look it's very old.

629
00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:47.680
<v Speaker 1>And then I'm going to show you a photo of

630
00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:52.599
<v Speaker 1>the drawing that was done and then what Asmen looks like.

631
00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:59.480
<v Speaker 2>That's that's pretty damn close.

632
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:02.400
<v Speaker 1>That's it's like a pretty resemblance there.

633
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:07.720
<v Speaker 2>Hey, there is, but to be fair, I mean it's

634
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:09.880
<v Speaker 2>not spot on. There are some features that are not

635
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:12.279
<v Speaker 2>quite there. Some features are there, but some aren't.

636
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:16.079
<v Speaker 1>It's mostly in the eyes, I think, really right, Yeah,

637
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:22.160
<v Speaker 1>so I don't know that's technically I guess another suspect

638
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:25.720
<v Speaker 1>really could be so and I mean someone probably would

639
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:28.599
<v Speaker 1>have recognized if Asmond was at the funeral, right, but

640
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:30.839
<v Speaker 1>the source says that he was not in attendance.

641
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:33.559
<v Speaker 2>But they don't know who that individual is.

642
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:38.799
<v Speaker 1>No, huh no, very interesting and he stands out so

643
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:41.319
<v Speaker 1>much in that picture it almost just seems weird. It's

644
00:33:41.319 --> 00:33:43.559
<v Speaker 1>off to me for some reason, not that I think

645
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:48.680
<v Speaker 1>it's photoshopped or anything. It just seems random in there.

646
00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:51.279
<v Speaker 1>This person that doesn't that looks kind of off.

647
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, he probably only really looks off because

648
00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:55.160
<v Speaker 2>we're drawn to him, we're looking at him.

649
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:58.319
<v Speaker 1>I guess there you go, yeah, oh that's there's a

650
00:33:58.359 --> 00:33:59.680
<v Speaker 1>circle around him. He looks funny.

651
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a circle around that person that looks off.

652
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:05.480
<v Speaker 1>But if you were just a look at the photo,

653
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:09.239
<v Speaker 1>you probably wouldn't have eve been appointed him O take exactly. Okay,

654
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:15.880
<v Speaker 1>so next suspect would be penty soanin there isn't a

655
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:19.119
<v Speaker 1>lot of information in regards to this suspect, other than

656
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:22.800
<v Speaker 1>he allegedly also confessed to the killings while he was

657
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:27.119
<v Speaker 1>serving time in prison for thefts. For thefts and violent crimes.

658
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:29.960
<v Speaker 1>He would have only been fifteen at the time of

659
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:33.159
<v Speaker 1>the murder, but was in the area at the time.

660
00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:37.079
<v Speaker 1>The police again did not take his confession seriously, as

661
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.280
<v Speaker 1>he had a history of drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness,

662
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:44.679
<v Speaker 1>and psychosis so was seen to be unreliable. He did

663
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:51.239
<v Speaker 1>hang himself in nineteen sixty nine while being transported between prisons.

664
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.880
<v Speaker 2>So that's all they have on him though, just that

665
00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:56.159
<v Speaker 2>he confessed at one point.

666
00:34:56.039 --> 00:34:58.239
<v Speaker 1>Which people do false confess all the time when they

667
00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:01.639
<v Speaker 1>do don't really understand. But yeah, but then I mean

668
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:04.559
<v Speaker 1>at the time of that murder, he was fifteen. Yeah,

669
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:07.400
<v Speaker 1>so like two there was two eighteen year olds and

670
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:10.000
<v Speaker 1>two fifteen year old girls. Like I can't see him.

671
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:12.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, grant, I guess they would have been stuck

672
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:13.079
<v Speaker 1>in that tent.

673
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, don't let the fifteen year old age get to you.

674
00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:20.559
<v Speaker 1>Two. This is just like I never want to go

675
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:23.679
<v Speaker 1>tenting again. I feel like that's horrific, Like you would

676
00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:28.320
<v Speaker 1>have no chance, no chance I don't think not necessari Wow,

677
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:32.519
<v Speaker 1>it'd be pretty to get out of that alive, Nils did.

678
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:36.599
<v Speaker 1>But okay, so last, but not certainly least would be

679
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:39.360
<v Speaker 1>our last suspect. And do you have any guesses?

680
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:41.039
<v Speaker 2>Is it some vagrant dude?

681
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:44.559
<v Speaker 1>I think you should be able to guess this one?

682
00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Is it Nils himself?

683
00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, that's literally my next nine Nills himself, He

684
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:55.039
<v Speaker 1>said it so end. He was actually arrested in two

685
00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:59.320
<v Speaker 1>thousand and four, so forty four years after the murders.

686
00:35:59.599 --> 00:35:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh.

687
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:03.079
<v Speaker 1>At the time, he was married with two children, living

688
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:05.599
<v Speaker 1>in a living a quiet life, and he was working

689
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:08.800
<v Speaker 1>as a bus driver. It was announced that they had

690
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:12.760
<v Speaker 1>re examined the tent and other surviving evidence using modern

691
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:17.079
<v Speaker 1>forensic techniques, and that based on the new forensic analysis,

692
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:21.400
<v Speaker 1>they declared the case solved, with the sole survivor, Nils,

693
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:25.760
<v Speaker 1>now aged sixty two, being responsible for the murders. Police

694
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:28.840
<v Speaker 1>and the prosecution claimed that Nils had killed his best

695
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:32.320
<v Speaker 1>friend Seppo and the two girls using rocks and a knife.

696
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Among one of the missing items from the crime scene

697
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:38.920
<v Speaker 1>was actually Sepel's knife, which they believed could have been

698
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:42.400
<v Speaker 1>the murder weapon. But then also like, how do they

699
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:44.440
<v Speaker 1>know that he didn't just maybe forget it or something.

700
00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:46.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't exactly.

701
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:51.079
<v Speaker 1>So they stated that his motive was sexual jealousy, that

702
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.000
<v Speaker 1>he'd been in a state of rage over Mila, and

703
00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:56.599
<v Speaker 1>that his broken jaw was the result of a fight

704
00:36:56.679 --> 00:36:59.920
<v Speaker 1>he got with Seppel over the girls. Being that as

705
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.239
<v Speaker 1>his girlfriend, Mila suffered the most significant injuries, this could

706
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.920
<v Speaker 1>make sense, being that the attack maybe was personal.

707
00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:11.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't. I don't think so. This is one of

708
00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:13.159
<v Speaker 2>the farthest things from the truth in my mind. But

709
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:14.840
<v Speaker 2>keep going, I'll explain.

710
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Why Nils's trials started on August fourth, two thousand and five.

711
00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:24.480
<v Speaker 1>A key exhibit exhibit in the prosecution's case was Nil's shoes,

712
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:28.360
<v Speaker 1>which showed blood from the three murdered victims, but not

713
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:31.599
<v Speaker 1>a single drop of his own blood. I think it

714
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:35.320
<v Speaker 1>was initially believed that the killer had worn Nil's shoes

715
00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:39.320
<v Speaker 1>or something and then hidden them, since they were found

716
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:42.480
<v Speaker 1>five hundred yards away from the tent, which is sort

717
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:45.480
<v Speaker 1>of odd. When Nils was found, he was on top

718
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:49.840
<v Speaker 1>of the tent bare foot. With this new development, the

719
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:54.519
<v Speaker 1>prosecution was saying that Nils Nil's injuries must have occurred

720
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:57.320
<v Speaker 1>at a different time than the attacks of the others

721
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:01.119
<v Speaker 1>and that because of this, Nils must have committed the murders,

722
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:05.400
<v Speaker 1>faked the theft of missing items by hiding them, further

723
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:08.599
<v Speaker 1>injured himself, and then went back to the tent where,

724
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:14.960
<v Speaker 1>now barefoot, he pretended to be unconscious. You're just like

725
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:19.480
<v Speaker 1>staring at me like I'm saying something completely ridiculous.

726
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:22.400
<v Speaker 2>No, that there's some weight to this. I'm just listening.

727
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:23.920
<v Speaker 2>Is that it? Or is now?

728
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Because now there's like the defense.

729
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:26.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, let's hear it.

730
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:31.119
<v Speaker 1>So Nil's defense lawyer argued that the murders were the

731
00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:34.519
<v Speaker 1>work of someone from the outside and that Nils would

732
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:38.639
<v Speaker 1>have been incapable of killing three people given the extent

733
00:38:38.679 --> 00:38:42.199
<v Speaker 1>of his own injuries. So to refresh your memory, his

734
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:46.199
<v Speaker 1>injuries consisted of a broken jaw, head wound, concussion, and

735
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:50.599
<v Speaker 1>a deep gash to his face. The lawyer mentioned they

736
00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:53.360
<v Speaker 1>were also too severe to have been self inflicted, because

737
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:56.119
<v Speaker 1>that was another thing. Maybe he just self inflicted his injuries.

738
00:38:57.239 --> 00:38:59.800
<v Speaker 1>They said he was in the tent with the others

739
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:03.119
<v Speaker 1>when an unknown person approached, cut the tent ropes, causing

740
00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:06.000
<v Speaker 1>it to collapse, and then began attacking them through the

741
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:09.440
<v Speaker 1>fabric as they lay trapped. They stated that traces of

742
00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:12.639
<v Speaker 1>Nil's blood was found inside the tent and that he

743
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:14.920
<v Speaker 1>was a victim along with the others.

744
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:22.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, am I good to go now? Okay, so there

745
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:26.039
<v Speaker 2>is some possibility of that being the case, but I

746
00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:28.280
<v Speaker 2>think it's very very slim, and I'm going to tell

747
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:30.639
<v Speaker 2>you the main reason why I think this is not

748
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:35.960
<v Speaker 2>the possibility. So they say that he had a broken job, correct, correct,

749
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:38.960
<v Speaker 2>and then among that he had things that concussion, gash

750
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:41.159
<v Speaker 2>in his face, that sort of thing. Yeah, So the

751
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:44.239
<v Speaker 2>theory for it being him as the murderer, he would

752
00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:45.880
<v Speaker 2>have had to have gotten in a fight over the

753
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.960
<v Speaker 2>jealous lover the situation in right. Yeah, so okay, he

754
00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:52.159
<v Speaker 2>got in a fight at some point, got his job broken.

755
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:54.920
<v Speaker 2>This would have most likely have had to have happened

756
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:59.960
<v Speaker 2>befour Otherwise it doesn't make sense. And if it does,

757
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.480
<v Speaker 2>does happen before, again, it doesn't make sense. So you're

758
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:05.280
<v Speaker 2>telling me either A they got in a fight while

759
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:07.920
<v Speaker 2>everyone is inside the tent and broke his jaw and

760
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:12.159
<v Speaker 2>he manages to kill everybody and then fakes the scene

761
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:15.079
<v Speaker 2>by cutting the strings and everything afterwards not gonna happen.

762
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:18.000
<v Speaker 2>That just does not make sense or scenario B, they

763
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.239
<v Speaker 2>get in a fight prior to his jaw is broken,

764
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:24.280
<v Speaker 2>and then everyone goes and sleeps in the tent, all

765
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:27.639
<v Speaker 2>cuddled up together, and he is left outside and then

766
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:30.559
<v Speaker 2>attacks them when he most likely has a concussion or

767
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:33.480
<v Speaker 2>something too on top of it. Yeah, so they're all

768
00:40:33.519 --> 00:40:35.159
<v Speaker 2>going to just cuddle up and be okay with him

769
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:37.840
<v Speaker 2>outside in a broken jaw, and then he's the attacker.

770
00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:39.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't think so well.

771
00:40:39.559 --> 00:40:42.159
<v Speaker 1>I mean, in one article too stated that his feet

772
00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:45.400
<v Speaker 1>weren't dirty, so he's like running around hiding shit all

773
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:48.639
<v Speaker 1>over the place like I just or like would Seppo

774
00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:50.679
<v Speaker 1>not have had like I mean, I guess Seppel could

775
00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:53.239
<v Speaker 1>have got an injury to his hand if he had

776
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:56.039
<v Speaker 1>punched Nils right, but he could have got an injury

777
00:40:56.079 --> 00:40:58.159
<v Speaker 1>to his hand during the actual attack too.

778
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:02.239
<v Speaker 2>It not make sense to me one iota.

779
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.400
<v Speaker 1>It does seem odd though that his shoes. The shoe

780
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:08.920
<v Speaker 1>situation does seem like a bit odd to me. It does,

781
00:41:08.920 --> 00:41:13.119
<v Speaker 1>But I mean, someone murdering all these teens like this,

782
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:16.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure isn't quite all there and Gosh knows what

783
00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:17.639
<v Speaker 1>they're doing, right mm.

784
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Hmm, So sorry there was blood foulntain his shoes.

785
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:24.360
<v Speaker 1>The shoe, Yeah, his shoes had all three of victims blood,

786
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:25.880
<v Speaker 1>but not on his own, gotcha.

787
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so what about this is a theory because he

788
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:34.280
<v Speaker 2>was the one out fishing, right, No? No, oh, he wasn't.

789
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay.

790
00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:40.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, But then some people say there were some people

791
00:41:40.119 --> 00:41:43.920
<v Speaker 1>that speculated too that maybe like Nils was trying to

792
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:46.480
<v Speaker 1>get like his girlfriend to have sex with him or whatever,

793
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:49.199
<v Speaker 1>and she didn't want to, and then Seppo had to

794
00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:53.639
<v Speaker 1>like intervene, And so I don't know, I mean, no

795
00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:56.400
<v Speaker 1>one's really gonna know what exactly happened.

796
00:41:56.559 --> 00:41:58.239
<v Speaker 2>No, but I don't think it was one of the

797
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:01.679
<v Speaker 2>kids themselves. I don't that one of them is responsible

798
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:03.280
<v Speaker 2>for this. I think it is an outside source.

799
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:05.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, to all of a sudden just have that

800
00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:09.480
<v Speaker 1>much aggression when you haven't really had any signs of

801
00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:11.840
<v Speaker 1>that prior to does seem a lot. I mean, he

802
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:13.880
<v Speaker 1>was drinking and stuff, but I mean that I'm sure

803
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:15.239
<v Speaker 1>that wasn't the first time he was drinking.

804
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:19.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And there's some things that line up too much

805
00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:21.800
<v Speaker 2>with Carl for it to be one of the kids.

806
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:23.400
<v Speaker 1>For You're still team Carl.

807
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:27.199
<v Speaker 2>I am still team Carl, but I'm not saying for

808
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:29.599
<v Speaker 2>sure it's Carl. Now, what I'm saying is that these

809
00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:32.719
<v Speaker 2>kids were not from the area, right, because everyone said

810
00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:34.599
<v Speaker 2>no one from the area would camp there because they

811
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:35.119
<v Speaker 2>know about Carl.

812
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but they weren't that far away, like I think

813
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:39.000
<v Speaker 1>they said that the drive took them half an hour

814
00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:39.280
<v Speaker 1>or so.

815
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:42.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but yes, it's not their specific areas. They're not

816
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:45.039
<v Speaker 2>necessarily familiar with the area because if they were, they

817
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:46.119
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't camp there yea.

818
00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:48.280
<v Speaker 1>And I don't think they had been there much prior

819
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:50.159
<v Speaker 1>to maybe once just to check it out. I think

820
00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:50.679
<v Speaker 1>was all.

821
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:54.039
<v Speaker 2>So if they don't know this information, they don't know

822
00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:57.840
<v Speaker 2>things about like cutting the tent strings for example, Yes,

823
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:00.960
<v Speaker 2>someone who's setting up this scene to make it look

824
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:03.360
<v Speaker 2>like it was someone else who did it. Yeah, they

825
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:05.039
<v Speaker 2>would cut the ten strings to make it look like

826
00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Carl did it if they knew he didn't know, why

827
00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:09.599
<v Speaker 2>would he do something so specific? Then?

828
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:13.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, And I mean they did have that encounter

829
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:16.400
<v Speaker 1>with Carl early on, right, so I mean maybe they

830
00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:18.519
<v Speaker 1>did something that pissed him off or something. Right.

831
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:22.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm still team Carl, but I'm not saying it

832
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:24.320
<v Speaker 2>was just Carl. I think he might have been in

833
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:26.840
<v Speaker 2>it with the Asthmin gay. I think they might have

834
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:30.639
<v Speaker 2>both done it. Maybe it was an accumulation. Maybe the

835
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:33.599
<v Speaker 2>one Asmin dude was spying on or whatever and saw

836
00:43:33.679 --> 00:43:36.239
<v Speaker 2>Carl come over and cut the ten strings, run away laughing,

837
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:39.440
<v Speaker 2>and then Asmon was just like, I'm going to just

838
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:40.159
<v Speaker 2>finish the job.

839
00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:44.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but as serial killer, that wouldn't be that fun

840
00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:44.519
<v Speaker 1>for him.

841
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:47.039
<v Speaker 2>Why not, because now it's going to be pinned on

842
00:43:47.079 --> 00:43:49.360
<v Speaker 2>the other guy who already cut the strings, I guess.

843
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.239
<v Speaker 2>And then Carl could have been in a drunken stupor

844
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:53.719
<v Speaker 2>and woke up the next morning and saw it they

845
00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:54.920
<v Speaker 2>were dead, and he's like, what the fuck did I

846
00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:57.760
<v Speaker 2>do last night? I killed these kids?

847
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:01.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he could have legitimately believed that he did. I

848
00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:02.280
<v Speaker 1>don't know. Holy heck.

849
00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Now that is my theory. Carl cut the ten strings,

850
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:11.559
<v Speaker 2>did his normal thing whatever, and then someone Asmin jumped

851
00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:14.400
<v Speaker 2>on the opportunity, and then Carl believed he must have

852
00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:18.559
<v Speaker 2>done it because what else would have happened. Yeah, that's

853
00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:20.719
<v Speaker 2>my theory. It was it was the two of them.

854
00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:23.119
<v Speaker 2>Maybe they were working together and it was planned, but

855
00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:26.159
<v Speaker 2>maybe it was just the happenstance that that worked out.

856
00:44:26.199 --> 00:44:26.519
<v Speaker 2>That way.

857
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Okay, Now, like my brain, I'm just like I

858
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:33.400
<v Speaker 1>don't know I was. I'm not one hundred percent sure

859
00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:35.559
<v Speaker 1>that it wasn't Nils, to be honest, but I more

860
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:40.039
<v Speaker 1>so think that it wasn't him. But the Carl does

861
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:44.840
<v Speaker 1>make it makes sense, but it doesn't because, like I to,

862
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:47.559
<v Speaker 1>just like he kind of just like teased people more

863
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.079
<v Speaker 1>so like in an asshole way. He teased them, but

864
00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:52.440
<v Speaker 1>he never had, like I don't know, just to tease

865
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:55.880
<v Speaker 1>someone and then go to that aggression. It's just like night.

866
00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:58.320
<v Speaker 2>Day, which is why I think he might have just

867
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:00.920
<v Speaker 2>cut the ten strings right way. Then the other guy

868
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:03.199
<v Speaker 2>took care of it, and yeah, Carl was like, what

869
00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:03.800
<v Speaker 2>the fuck did I do?

870
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:06.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, because that other guy had murdered other

871
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:08.480
<v Speaker 1>campers at one point in time.

872
00:45:08.599 --> 00:45:09.960
<v Speaker 2>So that's my theory.

873
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:14.159
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So in October seventh, two thousand and five, Nils

874
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:17.880
<v Speaker 1>was acquitted of all charges on the grounds that the

875
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:22.639
<v Speaker 1>prosecution evidence was inconclusive. They failed to show an appropriate

876
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:26.360
<v Speaker 1>motive for such an extreme crime, and given so much

877
00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:30.159
<v Speaker 1>time had passed, the facts now seemed like impossible. He

878
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:34.159
<v Speaker 1>was awarded forty four nine hundred yuros. So about fifty

879
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:39.119
<v Speaker 1>eight thousand USD in damages for the mental suffering mental suffering,

880
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:41.440
<v Speaker 1>and was in the way that he was treated by

881
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:44.679
<v Speaker 1>the police in the media. If he didn't do it,

882
00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:48.679
<v Speaker 1>it sure seems shitty to survive something so brutal that

883
00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:51.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you struggle with on a daily basis and

884
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:53.519
<v Speaker 1>then get blamed for it and have your name drug

885
00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:54.239
<v Speaker 1>through the mud.

886
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:57.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And I think if he did do it, though

887
00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:00.199
<v Speaker 2>me personally not saying he didn't, but I think there's

888
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:02.679
<v Speaker 2>just a very very small chance it was him. If

889
00:46:02.679 --> 00:46:04.760
<v Speaker 2>he did do it, he is very lucky the police

890
00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:06.199
<v Speaker 2>watched that scene.

891
00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:09.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean, anyone that did this is very lucky.

892
00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:13.159
<v Speaker 2>Yep. So there's one more thing that doesn't add up

893
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:15.159
<v Speaker 2>to me with him though, because he had his head

894
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:18.559
<v Speaker 2>hit with a rock, presumably he had a concussion, right, Yeah,

895
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:21.639
<v Speaker 2>So he would have either had to have run around

896
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:24.119
<v Speaker 2>and hit all this stuff prior to and then hit

897
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:26.119
<v Speaker 2>his head with a rock and had the concussion and

898
00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:28.599
<v Speaker 2>just lay there so they would have been able to

899
00:46:28.599 --> 00:46:30.920
<v Speaker 2>find the rock rape beside him, or he hit him

900
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:33.000
<v Speaker 2>how self in the head with the rock and then

901
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:35.920
<v Speaker 2>ran around and did all this stuff, which is like

902
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:39.519
<v Speaker 2>not very plausible for them with a head injury.

903
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:42.079
<v Speaker 1>And then I mean, if he was just running around

904
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:44.480
<v Speaker 1>hiding all this stuff, I feel like some of the

905
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:46.159
<v Speaker 1>things would have been found.

906
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he probably wouldn't have been running that far.

907
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and considering none of those items were found, that's

908
00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:52.880
<v Speaker 1>just very odd.

909
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:53.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

910
00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:56.400
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I mean I feel like someone had to

911
00:46:56.440 --> 00:46:58.400
<v Speaker 1>physically have taken them from the site.

912
00:46:58.639 --> 00:46:59.199
<v Speaker 2>I agree.

913
00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:03.480
<v Speaker 1>So the spot where the three finished teams were brutally

914
00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:06.960
<v Speaker 1>murdered is still a campground today with the legend of

915
00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:11.239
<v Speaker 1>the Botom murderer fearing the generation. Since being that this

916
00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:14.239
<v Speaker 1>case is over sixty years old, it's unlikely you'll ever

917
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:17.920
<v Speaker 1>get solved. The perpetrator is most likely of old age

918
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:19.599
<v Speaker 1>or already deceased.

919
00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:24.199
<v Speaker 2>Damn, that is a wild case. My mind is going

920
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:25.039
<v Speaker 2>to mile a minute.

921
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:29.400
<v Speaker 1>That case is also very much so compared often to

922
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:31.159
<v Speaker 1>the one, the very first one.

923
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:32.280
<v Speaker 2>We did Diotlive Pass.

924
00:47:32.360 --> 00:47:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, it's like a little bit similar and well

925
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.920
<v Speaker 1>it's reminiscent of the tent right, Yeah, and that it's

926
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:43.079
<v Speaker 1>kind of older, and it doesn't seem like there's any

927
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:45.199
<v Speaker 1>likelihood that it's going to get solved, But you know,

928
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:46.639
<v Speaker 1>you never know, you never know.

929
00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:50.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, there is a case known as the American version

930
00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:51.199
<v Speaker 2>of the diatlot past.

931
00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:52.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you had mentioned that to media.

932
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:54.239
<v Speaker 2>The day, and I think I'm going to be doing

933
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:56.800
<v Speaker 2>that case here pretty quick. We've had it recommended to

934
00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:59.079
<v Speaker 2>us a few times, so I think it's going to

935
00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:01.000
<v Speaker 2>be coming down the pipe soon. I don't know how soon,

936
00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:02.840
<v Speaker 2>but it will be one that I cover.

937
00:48:04.119 --> 00:48:05.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so there we go.

938
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well done. That was definitely a case that is

939
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:10.800
<v Speaker 2>usually up my alley. I know, unexpected for you to

940
00:48:10.840 --> 00:48:11.159
<v Speaker 2>cover it.

941
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:12.599
<v Speaker 1>Well, it was supposed to be your week, So I

942
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:13.360
<v Speaker 1>was like, I'm gonna be ben.

943
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:15.119
<v Speaker 2>It was supposed to be my week. What the hell?

944
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:16.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean doing the case, So I was like,

945
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:18.119
<v Speaker 1>I want to just be men today.

946
00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:19.239
<v Speaker 2>Was it supposed to be my week?

947
00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:21.239
<v Speaker 1>I think so, But that's okay.

948
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:23.280
<v Speaker 2>I just I just did the Patreon episode.

949
00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:27.719
<v Speaker 1>Though you have you have definitely got me out of

950
00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:28.719
<v Speaker 1>thick water sometimes.

951
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:31.800
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, so I do appreciate it. And speaking of

952
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:33.679
<v Speaker 2>episodes over on Patreon, if you want to sign up

953
00:48:33.719 --> 00:48:36.360
<v Speaker 2>on Patreon get those exclusive episodes that drop the last

954
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:38.679
<v Speaker 2>day of every month. You can head over there. You

955
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:40.199
<v Speaker 2>can get some behind the scenes you can take part

956
00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:42.239
<v Speaker 2>in that little cool contest for running there too.

957
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:44.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, we just dropped one on there that you

958
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:46.920
<v Speaker 1>that you did, and I think we only had hinted

959
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:48.800
<v Speaker 1>at that. So do you want to say what it was?

960
00:48:49.519 --> 00:48:52.920
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember what it was? What was it? Shit?

961
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:56.599
<v Speaker 2>What was it? I literally can't remember. I'm blanking. My

962
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:58.599
<v Speaker 2>mind has been everywhere with trying to get ready for

963
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:02.079
<v Speaker 2>this trip. Oh what was it? Do you remember? No,

964
00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:04.760
<v Speaker 2>you don't remember either. How can you be giving me

965
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:10.719
<v Speaker 2>that much shit? Life of True Crime podcast? I don't remember. Yeah, well,

966
00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:11.920
<v Speaker 2>we go through so many cases.

967
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:15.239
<v Speaker 1>You wouldn't want us detecting or being detectives on a case.

968
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Apparently, no kidding, we would watch that scene a heartbeat.

969
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:23.519
<v Speaker 2>Holy Anyways, the Patreon Oh well, that's right. It was

970
00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:25.559
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Melkie the Blindfolded Death.

971
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh gosh, yeah, that was yeah.

972
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:30.239
<v Speaker 2>So if you want to go hear that episode, we

973
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:32.480
<v Speaker 2>just dropped it the other day. So, but if you don't,

974
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:33.920
<v Speaker 2>if you don't want to stand up for Patreon, that's

975
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:36.519
<v Speaker 2>totally cool. We appreciate you being here all the same.

976
00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:37.760
<v Speaker 2>But if you do want to check out some other

977
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:40.880
<v Speaker 2>links all there in the description of this podcast, including

978
00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:43.679
<v Speaker 2>Patreon website merch you name it, it's all down below.

979
00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:46.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, well well done in today's episode. That was

980
00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:49.079
<v Speaker 2>awesome and we'll make sure that we see you guys

981
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:51.079
<v Speaker 2>here coming soon with some more true crime coming down

982
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:53.880
<v Speaker 2>the pipe. There we go, and of course, as always,

983
00:49:54.280 --> 00:50:00.599
<v Speaker 2>stay wicked.