WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.640 Hey much as we'll be on the winning team. Hello 2 00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:04.400 and welcome Jay, and thank you so much for joining 3 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:06.799 us once again on Legalized freedom dot Com. 4 00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:08.759 Thank you, Greg. It's pleasure to be back. 5 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:12.800 Okay, Jay, Today we're doing part three of our little 6 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:17.800 interview series discussing your book Esoteric Hollywood Sex Cults and 7 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:19.839 Symbols in Film, And of course we've been getting into 8 00:00:19.879 --> 00:00:22.079 a lot of other related things that you didn't necessarily 9 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:25.519 cover in the book. Do recommend people hop back and 10 00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:29.760 listen to the first two installments, which the links to 11 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:32.640 which can be found on the web page for this 12 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:36.439 particular section. So with that in mind, we're going to 13 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:39.640 go straight in to continue our chat. All the preamble 14 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:41.799 stuff that about your book, et cetera, et cetera can 15 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:44.359 be found either in one of the other interviews or 16 00:00:44.439 --> 00:00:46.880 at the end of this one. So now two things 17 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:49.560 that we threaten to talk about last two occasions. Where 18 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:56.320 first movie was Zardols from nineteen seventy four. That's a 19 00:00:56.359 --> 00:01:01.039 film by director John Burman and star Sean Connery, of 20 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:04.280 all people, not long after he actually finished up his 21 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:09.480 second stint as James Bond. Now Berman is perhaps better known, 22 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:12.439 I guess One of his best known films is probably 23 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:17.480 Deliverance with Burt Reynolds and John Voight and the other 24 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:20.400 guy whose name I can't remember, the fat Dude, and. 25 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:22.400 A very wholesome family film. 26 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:25.840 It is, Yeah, no, and also excalib. 27 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:27.680 When I say when I say family, I mean that 28 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:29.280 in a very extreme sense. 29 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:34.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd like to keep it in the family. 30 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:38.599 And so, yeah, people haven't seen Deliverance that they really 31 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:41.640 do need to do that. It's still actually has not. 32 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:43.879 We're not here Destiny to talk about that, but for 33 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:47.359 me that that film still has the power to shock. 34 00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:50.079 Even though I've watched it quite a few times, you 35 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:54.159 know that there's definitely something about it that's so you. 36 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:56.159 Can go about thirty minutes from where I am and 37 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:59.719 find people living in conditions fairly close to that. 38 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:01.879 Yeah, or you could not do that. You could just 39 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:03.920 stay in town and lock your doors. 40 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:07.359 Yeah, but we were talking about the Mullet people. But yeah, 41 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:09.840 we were talking the first episode, and yeah, it gets 42 00:02:09.879 --> 00:02:12.280 worse than just the Mullets. I mean, the South has 43 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:14.120 a lot of great points to it, but there really 44 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:17.960 are still some of those you know, very destitute backwoods 45 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:18.919 times people. 46 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:23.319 Yeah, wrong, turn type stuff. M HM and Excalibur is 47 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:26.759 another one of John Berman's films that's his Arthurian, his 48 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:29.000 take on the Arthurian legend, which I always think. 49 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:30.879 Yes, it's interesting, it's very gnostic. 50 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:33.840 Yeah, yeah, it is. Rather it is rather, But I say, 51 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:36.199 I wanted really to talk about zar Doors because this 52 00:02:36.319 --> 00:02:38.159 fits in with some of the themes that we picked 53 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:42.199 up last time, last two times, specifically talking about science 54 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:45.919 fiction distilly is, you know, visions of the future. Also 55 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.479 things being laid out in decades gone by that would 56 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:52.280 very much tie in with things that have happened since, 57 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:56.240 particularly in the realms of technology, science and society, and 58 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:59.439 things that look a lot closer to happening than they 59 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:02.439 did back and movies such as this kind of laid 60 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:06.520 them out. So Zardos is an interesting film. I mean 61 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:09.400 visually I find it quite ravishing. Really, there's just so 62 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:14.319 many points of interest, so many scenes and sections that 63 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:16.360 he just kind of go wow, you know, look at that. 64 00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:18.639 Particularly at the time. It's one of those things where 65 00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:20.360 I can't quite imagine what it would be like going 66 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:22.199 to the movies to see that for the first time. 67 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:25.560 My underwear shaken not starred. 68 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:29.520 Hey, listen, you gotta love Sean Connery, haven't you. Really. 69 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:31.520 He's one of those actors that he hasn't got any 70 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:32.240 other accents. 71 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:35.000 You know, I'm not the only one, and I'm in 72 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:36.159 my underwear. 73 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:39.560 Appreciate it. I'm not quite sure how he got interacting. 74 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.479 I know he used to be a milkman. He seems 75 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:44.159 to be a guy that's kind of can act up 76 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:45.639 to a point, if you see what I mean. But 77 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:47.919 he's never he's never bravely taken on. 78 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:50.560 That's a good question. I hadn't thought about that, but yeah, 79 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:54.120 and he wasn't, you know, originally the choice for Bond. 80 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:56.039 That was a lot of other people that were in 81 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:58.960 the running first, and you know, Patrick McGowan and people 82 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:02.199 like that. But yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't really 83 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:03.599 know a lot about his background. 84 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:06.199 But yeah, Patrick mcgooin, who well, by the way, in case, 85 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:07.960 I don't know what you call them or if you 86 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:11.000 ever had milkman in the US, but basically it's kind 87 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:14.319 of dayed out now, but for many years in Britain 88 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:17.600 you would often get your milk delivered to your door 89 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:20.800 right by a dairy company and they just drove around 90 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:24.560 in these little electric trucks. Delivering milk. It seems bizarre, no, but. 91 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:26.959 Yeah, they had the US had that like in the 92 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.360 fifties and sixties, and I think it kind of died 93 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:30.480 out by the seventies. 94 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:32.839 Yeah, well Sean Connery used to do that. But anyway, 95 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:35.000 the point about his accent is no matter what film 96 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:38.680 he's in, it's the same, isn't it. Highlander Scottish accents. 97 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:39.360 That's a good point. 98 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:42.160 Yeah, hunt for Red October Scottish accent. 99 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:44.319 Well, I was just on a podcast and we were 100 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:45.920 talking about this the other day, and we were it 101 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:49.560 was funny because it's like all of those big time 102 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:52.560 A listers that reach a certain level, you know, they 103 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:56.160 pretty much just play themselves over and over, and some 104 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:59.519 of them even joke about it, like like Jack Nicholson, 105 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:01.600 you know, he just always plays Jack Nicholson. 106 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:02.439 You know. 107 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:05.000 Al Pacino was always al Pacino. Robert and Narrow is 108 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:05.879 always Robert in Niro. 109 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:08.879 Oh yeah, there's a there's a little comedy show here 110 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:10.959 that ran for a few years called Stella Street here 111 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:12.720 in the UK. It's a cult thing. Almost no one's 112 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:14.839 ever heard of it, but it involves a lot of 113 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:17.160 movie stars who all live together on the same Street, 114 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.319 and it's it's totally unlikely because it's a mixture of 115 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:23.079 Hollywood people. I mean, Jack Nicholson lives there, Al Pacino 116 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:27.040 lives there, Joe Peshi lives there, but even Michael Kane 117 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:29.519 lives there, Roger Murr lives there, and they're all they're 118 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:32.439 all next door neighbors. And on the shop on the corner, 119 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:34.759 the seven eleven is run by Mick and Keith from 120 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:38.079 the Rolling Stones, and it's. 121 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:39.399 Just it's a great idea. I don't know why that 122 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:39.920 didn't work. 123 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:41.839 It's as well, it's just I just think it was 124 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:44.439 just too too weird for people. But anyway that they 125 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:46.879 take the piss out of Jack Nicholson in that one, 126 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:49.040 because he keeps getting these new rules and he's always 127 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:50.560 trying out for them, you know, see what the other 128 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:53.519 guys on the street think of it. At one point 129 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:56.160 he actually gets a job as a Scottish detective, you know, 130 00:05:56.240 --> 00:06:00.759 detective based up in Glasgow Capital or not Captain Tucker 131 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:03.399 in Scotland. And at one point and he's saying to 132 00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:07.519 like he say, He's saying to whoever it is, Dustin Hoffman, 133 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:09.920 He's trying and saying, I've just taken on a role 134 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:16.759 as a hard nosed cop from Glascow. That's the voice 135 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:18.759 he's gonna do, you know, let me let me. 136 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:19.720 I gotta do my jack. 137 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:22.079 Well, yeah, yeah, please do if you could, if you 138 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:24.120 could say, hey, do your jack and try saying that 139 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:25.879 you're a hard nursed cop from Glasgow. 140 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:28.120 A right, let me do my jack line first, and 141 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:29.759 then I'll try that line. I gotta warm up. 142 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:31.000 Okay. 143 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:40.360 Well, my wife Wendy's a confirmed horror film fanatic. Was 144 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:40.959 that any good? 145 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.240 That's pretty good? Better than I can do for sure. 146 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:46.399 And so what's the line, I'm a hard. 147 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:47.600 Nursed cop from Glasgow. 148 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:52.519 Well, I am a hard nosed cop from Glasgow. 149 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:59.480 Perfect, So anyway Connory Connory, Yeah, So it's like Scottish 150 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:04.240 accent all away, and he's star of Zardal's Fizzardoza mckello, 151 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:06.240 which is not really how he sounds, but that's if 152 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:08.560 you take it to an extreme Scottish accent, that's what 153 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:10.759 you end up with. Zardals. I'm going to get you 154 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:12.959 to give listeners your take on that movie in just 155 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:15.120 a second. But it's interesting for a number of reasons, 156 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:18.519 not only because Connery was playing something clearly that he 157 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:20.480 had no need to do. I'm not quite sure what 158 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:22.600 appealed to him about the idea, but he went with 159 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:26.560 it anyway. And after the success of Deliverance, it seems 160 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:30.120 to me that director John Berman was basically given Kurt 161 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:33.680 Blanche by the studio to say, Okay, that was a 162 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.720 big success. You can just do some insane project that 163 00:07:36.759 --> 00:07:38.639 you've been ad up your sleeve for a while. 164 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:42.439 Well, the tagline is funny, it's beyond nineteen eighty four, 165 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.319 beyond two thousand and one, It's beyond love and death. 166 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:48.879 So you get the Nietzschean themes of two thousand and 167 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:52.399 one that are pretty overt with you know, the Wagner 168 00:07:52.439 --> 00:07:57.360 piece that Kuber played, and then the idea, you know, 169 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:01.600 Bowman kind of transcending limitations of time and space, which 170 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:04.720 was my analysis of two thousand and one, and here 171 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:07.319 we're trying to go for something even beyond that, and 172 00:08:08.199 --> 00:08:10.160 you know it's going to have the dystopian themes, as 173 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:13.399 the tagline says, with nineteen eighty four, but you know 174 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.839 what everyone remembers as Sean Connery and underwear. But the 175 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:20.319 odd thing is that there this movie is really deep. 176 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:22.399 I mean, it's got a lot of symbolism. It's just 177 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:27.600 packed with all these Masonic and esoteric themes. And I 178 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:30.360 think the first thing that comes to mind in regard 179 00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:34.759 to what you said is Sean Connery seems to have 180 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:38.759 a penchant for roles related to Masonry. Now I don't 181 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:41.480 know for certain what his you know, Like I said, 182 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:43.039 I don't know his background. I don't know a whole 183 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:47.519 lot about him personally, but you know, he chose the 184 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:51.600 man who would be king, I think probably because of 185 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:56.960 that Masonic theme where he plays this con man basically 186 00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:01.759 who's you know, portraying himself as the reincarnation of Alexander 187 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:04.759 the Great. And this is to fool a whole bunch 188 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:08.200 of these sort of primitive people, and Himalayas are somewhere, 189 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:12.159 and by extension, you know, Michael Kaine's there and they're 190 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:14.879 they're both going to live as kings, you know, in 191 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:18.480 a more primitive existence and so forth, and this it 192 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:21.440 doesn't work, and then they get basically run out of 193 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:26.919 the the village and h But it's very very Masonic. 194 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:30.559 And of course Kipling's story would have all that Masonic 195 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:36.000 imagery and thematic elements for a reason, because I'm sure 196 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:40.279 he was you know, tied into that, and in my view, 197 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:42.960 you know, there's a lot of scholarship that's been done 198 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.399 on masonry as kind of the outpost of the British 199 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:49.559 Empire that that the the lodges kind of function as 200 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:54.159 these networks for you know, spying on people and transferring 201 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:56.600 secrets and so anywhere that the Empire would extend, you 202 00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:59.720 would have you know, the British lodge system set up. 203 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:03.039 So that's kind of what I think is in the 204 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:06.039 movie with men who would be king, and so you'll 205 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:09.080 see Connery a lot of times taking those kinds of 206 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:13.159 roles and he's very much in a Masonic role here. 207 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:17.279 You know, there's a memorable image from the movie where 208 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:19.559 he finds that magic ring. It's kind of like a 209 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.960 a futuristic ring version of the Eye Watch where he 210 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:29.360 can you know, have access to basically the Internet is 211 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:33.480 what he's accessing here in the movie. But you know 212 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:35.559 it displays this image of an eye on his head, 213 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:38.519 you know, this all seeing eye on the on his 214 00:10:38.639 --> 00:10:41.720 third eye. So yeah, again this is this movie is 215 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:45.399 replete with all this kind of stuff. But what we 216 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:49.799 have is a future dystopia with these roving bands of 217 00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:52.919 tribes we see at the beginning, and it's very bizarre. 218 00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:56.919 As you said, they they talk about their guns as 219 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:00.440 if they're phallic. I'm not sure why that part is 220 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:02.440 in there. I think I may have left that the 221 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:05.759 analysis because I didn't really understand what they were getting at. 222 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:09.519 But basically, they're they're breeding is controlled, and there's this 223 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:15.799 immortal class of persons who flies around in these giant 224 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:21.039 heads and they present themselves as gods and so zed. 225 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:25.399 The The Sean Connery character sort of figures out that 226 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:28.480 this is a scam and he kills one of the 227 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:32.720 quote immortals and then rides back to the compound or 228 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:38.960 the Elysian fields, where these immortals live in this very apathetic, 229 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:42.720 very blase existence where they don't care about anything and 230 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:46.039 everything is because they don't have any pain or sorrow 231 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:52.399 or you know that they have every pleasure at their fingertips. 232 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:57.120 And what happens is that Sean Connery, as this savage 233 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.679 you know, kind of invades their eden, their xt state, 234 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:07.600 and causes an uproar. He basically fosters a revolution somewhat inadvertently, 235 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:10.679 and you know, you would think with a typical kind 236 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:13.840 of dystopian film that it would be, Oh, you know, 237 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:17.519 they cause the revolution and they overthrow the dystopian rulers 238 00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:19.840 and then you know, the good guys are in power. 239 00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:22.159 But that's not where this film goes. It goes into 240 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:25.679 a very very bizarre direction. And then what you learn 241 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:27.960 I'm going to go ahead and spoil it if you haven't 242 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:32.320 seen the movie, is that the name of the film 243 00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:36.960 is based on the fact that he rediscovers books because 244 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:39.840 the elite in this movie have hoarded all the knowledge. 245 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:43.519 They have basically a giant pyramid that's a big ai 246 00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:47.519 system that allows them not just to control their environment 247 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.879 and the kind of super smart city, they can also 248 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:56.639 reincarnate or resurrect. So they've they've mastered every possible secret 249 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:01.159 of nature and you know, it's a lot and have immortality, 250 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:05.879 but they've learned that immortality in this film's presentation, at least, 251 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:08.480 you know, it leaves you empty. Once you've had all 252 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:12.000 the pleasures, there's there's nothing else left for you. So 253 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:16.519 Zed starts the revolution, and what happens is that it 254 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:19.120 is in a way successful, and some of the gods 255 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:21.639 kind of join him in the revolution. They end up 256 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:25.480 all killing each other. So this again The Nietzschean theme 257 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:28.440 is very prominent here because I think, you know, Nietzsche 258 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:32.519 would say things like, the elite, you have these cycles 259 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:35.080 in history. It's a very cyclical presentation in this film 260 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:37.679 Eternal Return and so forth. And the reason that the 261 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:42.240 power structures collapse is because they insulate themselves from the 262 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:45.279 rest of the world. You know that we've all heard 263 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:50.360 this about elites throughout history with you know, Chinese emperors 264 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:53.799 couldn't walk on the ground. They would have people carry 265 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:58.720 them around on poles and stilts, and they would bind 266 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:00.919 the women's feet because women and weren't supposed to walk 267 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:03.039 around the elite, you know, women weren't supposed to walk 268 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:05.480 all this weird stuff that they come up with. And 269 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:07.840 what happens is when you get really insular like that 270 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:10.639 and there's all this incest and inbreeding, you know, like 271 00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:16.840 amongst the British elite, you end up detached. And Nietzsche 272 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:21.200 argues that that detachment from the real world actually ends 273 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.320 up being the destruction of the elite, which is an 274 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:27.120 interesting thesis, and I think that's kind of what's going 275 00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:31.600 on here in Borman's film, because the revolution is successful, 276 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:37.039 but instead of adopting you know, the technology of immortality. 277 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.080 They kind of destroy it, they get rid of it, 278 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:43.120 and you're left at the end of film with this 279 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:47.480 kind of oral buro scenario of the you know, the 280 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:51.519 snake eating its own tail, because Z and his wife 281 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:55.759 are kind of halfway pictured as Adam and Eve, and 282 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:57.600 so you're kind of left with the idea, oh, maybe 283 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.440 this is you know, just the whole cycle of all 284 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:06.440 of the history of mankind being represented, and you know, 285 00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:10.000 maybe and maybe what I'm not saying this is absolutely true, 286 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:11.840 but I'm saying that the film is kind of proposing 287 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:16.360 the thesis of you know, maybe we think about elites 288 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:21.600 gaining you know, transhumanist abilities and all this kind of stuff, 289 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:24.559 and then and then maybe one day it collapses and 290 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:26.759 then it all just starts over again and we're right 291 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:28.399 back to Adam and Eve. And so I thought that 292 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:30.759 was kind of interesting. That was a that was kind 293 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:34.000 of the message of the New Battlestar Galactica if you 294 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:36.799 saw that, if you saw the the end of the series, 295 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:39.399 was that, you know, you're thinking the whole time that 296 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:42.039 this is going on in the future, and then you realize, oh, 297 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:45.600 this is actually starts the end of the series. Is 298 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:49.320 Adam and Eve more or less, so, you know, alternate 299 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.799 theories of origins that kind of ties in the Greek mythology, 300 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:55.519 you know, the mists of the gods. That was my 301 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:58.639 take on Zardas. What about you, well, I. 302 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:00.759 Mean, I think you pretty much sum up most of 303 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:03.720 my thoughts. But the general take away from me elites 304 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:06.840 will become detached from reality and this will be their destruction. 305 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:09.679 And that mirrored other dystopian sci fi that I had 306 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:12.039 watched and read, and then I started to see that, 307 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:14.000 you know, in the real world, you know, looking at 308 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.440 developments and technology they're actually happening, and then looking back 309 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:19.960 to some of this predictive sci fi. And I think 310 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.639 you mentioned the word transhumanism. I think that's very much 311 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:25.840 where we're headed. And I think for me that Zed 312 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:28.879 in Zardo's it's a little bit like sort John the 313 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:32.080 Savage type character and breeding New World. Yeah, it's kind 314 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.159 of you see in Zardo's the react they kind of 315 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:37.559 the fascination that they have with Zed this character and 316 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:40.679 put it it's the animal nature of man that they 317 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:41.799 have left behind. 318 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:43.080 That that's a good point, right. 319 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:45.480 The elite in the Tabernacle have and they're fascinated by 320 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:49.240 his vitality and by his violence. I mean, you know, 321 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:51.600 they're kind of shocked, you know, they they've become so 322 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.840 detached from, as you say, the real world are basic 323 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:59.639 nature that the idea of like killing someone, fucking someone 324 00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:03.480 or or you know, or eating something or you know, 325 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:05.480 taking a shit or whatever. It's all just kind of 326 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:07.680 you know, but it's kind of strange for them. It's 327 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:10.039 come running almost full circle, and they're like, oh my god. 328 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:12.799 You know, for me, it was kind of about balance 329 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:15.839 because it's like you saw the world that the brutals 330 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.039 as they're called in Zardo's living. It's this post apocalyptic 331 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:23.079 kind of wasteland. Yeah, but so's social class that he's 332 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:26.799 part of is a classic middle of a hierarchy type thing, 333 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:30.079 like an enforcer kind of rule, not really like police, 334 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.039 but they kind of sit between the elite and the 335 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:35.039 masses at the bottom of the pyramid, and that we 336 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:38.200 see that very much in our society. So they're almost 337 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:42.200 slightly privileged. Zed's kind of exterminator class. You see the 338 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:43.799 way some of the brutals live and it's not a 339 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:45.400 lot of fun, But then you see the way the 340 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:48.279 elites live, and you kind of think, well, in some 341 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:51.519 ways Zed and his cohorts kind of have it good, 342 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:55.000 and for me things get worse. Things are already bad 343 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.720 for the brutals, things are get worse for the elite. 344 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:00.480 And it's actually Zed in this kind of like in 345 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.839 his moments of nosis kind of coming to understanding. He 346 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.119 gains in power throughout the film, and you can see 347 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.599 him kind of like taking control. So the end, as 348 00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:11.519 you say, which is kind of like almost as Adam 349 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:13.799 and Eve type wrap it up and start again thing. 350 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:15.839 You can read that any way you want. You can 351 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:17.519 read it as like, oh, here we go again. But 352 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:19.680 for me it was kind of like, well, it's another 353 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:22.359 chance we don't you know, the future isn't written yet. 354 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.359 At the end of it, I kind of thought, yeah, 355 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:26.640 you know, well done from Zand. 356 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:29.480 That's a good point. Yeah. And I forgot to mention 357 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:33.599 too that the Tzard Eyes, of course Wizard of Oz 358 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:36.480 is what you realize it's based on, because he finds 359 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:39.039 that book that was kind of hidden away or forgotten, 360 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.319 and you know, he's kind of figuring out language and 361 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:48.200 he realizes that the elite basically just mastered technology, you know, 362 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:53.240 gnosis or knowledge. That's why they're flying around in heads, 363 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:56.599 because where's the source of knowledge. It's the head. That's 364 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:58.000 actually a thing that comes up in a lot of 365 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.400 films too, by the way, with like very Baron von Munchausen. 366 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:04.799 There's that planet where you know, Robin Williams's head is 367 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:07.440 just floating around and he has no understanding of the body. 368 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:09.400 And that's that's kind of what you're getting at that 369 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:12.839 the bodily desires have kind of been discarded because the 370 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:16.680 elite perspective was that the body was the problem and 371 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:18.640 we've got to transcend that and if we can just 372 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:22.799 transcend that, will we'll be free, will be if you know, 373 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.519 we won't have those problems anymore. But they've forgotten and 374 00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:31.799 as you said, they're mystified by his brutal nature. And 375 00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:34.480 then that's why you get these guys who are kind 376 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:37.200 of like that that one guy, he's got the head dress. 377 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.039 They look like a sphinx, which is interesting because so 378 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:43.279 they have this kind of Egyptian aesthetic to them where 379 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:49.640 they literally look like, you know, the sphinx statue, and 380 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:53.440 it harkens back to you know, Egyptology, and that's why 381 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:58.039 they're tabernacle. The Ai thing is this big pyramid, And 382 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:03.519 the irony you said is that I think part of 383 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.920 it is showing that the class warfare doesn't really get 384 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:10.319 you what you want, because it's all predicated on the 385 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:13.319 idea of, oh, if I can rise up in the ranks, 386 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:16.519 if I can overthrow the people above me, if I 387 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:19.240 could just have access to what they've got, then I'll 388 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:21.279 be happy. And then what you find out is that 389 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:24.799 every time you, you know, if you've got a million dollars, 390 00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:27.359 and then you attain a billion dollars, you basically just 391 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:32.599 inherit a whole other level of problems. So you're right 392 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:36.400 in many ways, Z's middle class I guess you could 393 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:39.680 say middle to lower class existence actually had a lot 394 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:43.640 of positives, and there are a lot of negatives that 395 00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:45.720 would have come along with him trying to kind of 396 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:49.519 move into the status of the elite, and it just 397 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.799 doesn't work. And I'm not necessarily trying to say that 398 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:55.640 everything about class systems or class systems is good. I'm 399 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:59.279 just saying that that's kind of an interesting argument you 400 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:02.880 could make from the is that, you know, do we 401 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:06.160